The birds could have nested on that hairdo :)

so how many jobs do the RSPB intend to create in Aberdeen ?

#1 Scott .. magpies need bigger nests !

Hi Peter.....good one mate........and I'm sure Donald must be overcome with emotion on hearing this news:) http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=734912007

".......the scant invertebrate data for the area suggests the presence of at least four nationally important species."
What exactly is a nationally important invertebrate? Are they LibDems?

#5 Cagacus No they are spineless nonentities

This is horsesh!t from the RSPB

I live on a golf estate (not as grand as the one DT is planning) and we have over 150 different bird species on the estate. Far more that there were when the area was just bush.

Conclusion? Golf estates are actually good for bird life!

This from the organisation that makes money like a bandit from the gullible public and has more failed conservation experiments to its name (Langholme Moor and Vyrnwy) than you can shake a stick at. Single issue conservation is for numpties. I hope the good cooncillors give the "report" the short shrift it deserves.

Just as well that the Planning Department will make the final decision rather than the pompous buffoons at the RSPB.

Yes, golf courses can be good for wildlife and I'm sure this is part of the experience golfers enjoy... but a balance is essential.

Any combination of the existing habitats that might remain within in the development along with new ones created will simply not be as good for wildlife (common and rare both being important) as the area is now.

It's a nationally important area and it would be a national disgrace if it were compromised by any development. And it's not just about wildlife. The habitats also provide people - locals and visitors who come to enjoy the special habitats on this part of the coast - with a sense of place and well-being. This can now be scientifically shown to reduce stress levels and extend life expectancy.

As the world at last begins to seriously look at acknowledging and addressing issues like environmental footprints, why should a rich American overthrow this and cast aside our national legislation and local policies just becasue he loves golf, just because he can?
As a precedent, it could be the start of a slippery slope.

Yes, it would be of benefit to the local economy etc to have fantastic golf course and an investment in creating a significant amount of employment. But it must be done in a less sensitive area.
Our lives and our environment need balance...

I think we should just flatten the whole of Scotland and build a giant Tesco with car park. Think of the jobs it'll create. Unemployment is sky high, after all.

#7 is spot on.

I live in a desert city made beautiful by andscaping & golf courses. The bird life on the courses is simpy breath-taking.

#11 - Why do you claim Trump is "......a rich American ....cast(ing) aside our national legislation and local policies.....". As I understand it, the man is applying to Aberdeenshire Council for planning consent in line with that very national legislation and local policies. Do you have something in particular against rich Americans that precludes them from investing in Scotland?

What problems to birdlife have been caused by St Andrews Bay Hotel, perhaps one hotel built in a similar location in recent years?

Factual answers only please.

Life moves on, and this planet isn't here just for the twitchers.

15
No, I have nothing against rich Americans investing in scotland - I did not say this if you would care to read carefully. I said that there are places for such things and places where it shouldn't go ahead. Let's hope our legisaltion and national pride stands up to scrutiny!!

16

No, the planet is here for us all and it's up to us to manage it in a balanced and unblinkered way

The RSPB-more than any other body-is responsible for the decline in the songbird population in this country.
They have destroyed rural communities with their policy of protecting raptors at all costs: by prosecuting gamekeepers going about their daily tasks, and closing down sporting estates. Skilled country people are now having to resort to taking jobs in Tesco, B&Q etc rather than face constant persecution from the richest charity in the country. Typically the RSPB goes round the back door and targets ordinary workers rather than take on the gentry direct.
Golf courses are built with the environment in mind: there are environmental experts who are consulted by most golf courses in existence. I am quite sure that Donald Trump is more than capable of paying for this specialist expertise in his enterprise.
The RSPB has been proved to give no consideration to the sustainability of rural communities. Thank goodness they do not hold the final decision on this venture: of course Trump should be allowed to proceed and thus provide jobs and wealth to Scotland. We should welcome him with open arms and stop messing about!

#16 - You wrote "No, the planet is here for us all and it's up to us to manage it in a balanced and unblinkered way."
I agree. Which is why I took issue with your totally unfounded implication in post #11 that Trump was buying his way around national legislation and local policies.

Please read again. I did not suggest he was buying his way round the legislation. Maybe that's what you yourself suspect...

a day after the RSPB ask me to renew my membership they show themselves up to be absolute idiots (in my opinion). Wildlife and employment must live hand in hand and where better than on a golf course complex.

I am struck every time I fly into a major city in the UK, just how green surrounding areas are when approaching a major city. The % of land taken up by roads and housing appears minimal from the air.

A golf course has almost no buildings, attempts to retain natural features and I can see no reason a golfer would frighten birdlife as opposed to as bus load of people with binoculars.

RSBP look to object perhaps to raise their own profile and gather more charity£'s?

What a battle is about to begin - Lapwings v Lapdogs!

Are the bookies offering odds on this one!
The outcome looks like being somewhat sensational, not to mention the Councils Planning Department and their display of great concern and their ability to honour their own regulations and rules - although I think they will be wearing 'all' their different hats on such decision days!

Or, is the matter already a 'Fore'-gone conclusion, just waiting for the final back-scratching rewards that normally accompanies such decisions and results?

Anyone who has played regularly on the courses adjoining this proposal i.e Murcar and Royal Aberdeen, especially Murcar, will know the diversity of birds and animals you regularly see out on the course. There are hundreds of skylarks, many pheasant, lapwings, kestrels and even two buzzards who patrol one of the bordering valleys. For gods sake there's even an MOD firing range nearer to the Menie estate than anything, if this hasn't scared birds and wildlife away ...what has. Also the prolifertion of the housing at Balmedie towards this so called sensitive area has gone unchallenged... RSPB did we hear you then. Anyway where were the RSPB when Murcar GC had to spend out 40k on fighting an extension of the hideous landfill site adjacent to the Murcar course, if they were so concerned regarding wildlife destruction they were very silent about it.

It's not just a green and rolling golf course though is it? Big hotel, how many big hooses? Jobs? How many locals will go work in the hotel and clean said hooses? Locals from the east(eastern europe) I would imagine. Help the local economy? I rather doubt anyone using this complex will be nipping down to the local shops, or into the local pub for a pint.
Trump has got only one thing on his mind - making money and bu**er everything else.

if there's so many fabulous golf courses, why do we need another one?

is there a shortage?

There's no doubt that golf courses can be rich in wildlife - that seems to be broadly accepted. And that would certainly be no problem at all if the golf course were built on what was typically near-sterile modern intensively farmed agricultural land.

But it is not - it is proposed to be built in a place that is already has an astonishing concentration of wildlife - and not the sort that adapts itself to artfully arranged roughs and bunkers, mown fairways and manicured greens, and can easily accept the background intrusion (low level, but pervasive) from human presence and activity.

Golf courses are not a wildlife-hostile context, but are already not only plentiful, but multiplying - even out here in the Outer Hebrides. Whereas natural un-developed seashores, sand dunes, and salt marshes are the most fragile and most endangered habitats worldwide.

Money, money, money, always funny in a rich mans world....
meanwhile another very rich man wants to vandalise the capital`s historic Old Town...his PR spin is that it will create jobs....but we all know its just to make him and his consorts lots more money...
see www.eh8.org.uk

#20 doris d. Are you aware of the damage that has been done in Shetland by the bonxie. They have taken over as they are top of the pile and the effect on other seabirds has been devestating.

Well said 30.

Of course gold courses exist hand in hand with wildlife, but as the above post states, what if wildlife already there is going to be disturbed/destroyed.

If on the plans for the course developing would mean ruining wildlife sites X, Y and Z then you simply shouldn't build on sites X, Y and Z.

Surely there are some areas where you can build and some areas where you shouldn't - or do some people really not care and would just build anywhere.

I'm NOT an RSPB support FYI. The above just seems logical...

Different animals need different habitats. The ones that flock around golf courses are not the same as the indigenous species found round about where this propsed golf course would be situated.

We're losing enough species on the planet due to small-scale extinctions. Let's NOT add to it by deliberate actions.

And as many posters have alread said, we have more than enough golf courses.

Buy an existing one and do it up, Mr Trump. It's less hassle.

Glorfindel
(hugs and kisses and Save de boidies!)

Far too much of Scotland is given over to these enclaves of the well-off, but does the right to roam not apply to golf links as well?

Usual rubbish from the small-minded self-centred. Demolishing Scottish wildland is not the same as conquering African Bush. Trump is not altruoistic, he's out to make money. The more the better. He can't build the best golfcourse in the World in Scotland because we already have the Top 10.

If Trump wants land he can have some of the spoiled land. Industrial or agricultural, doesn't matter. But wild land is scarce and cannot be replaced.

The RSPB may fail occasionally but they are knowledgeable and they care. Their vote should be a Veto.

No 26 Granite City

Have played both courses and agree totally with your post !
The G C I am a member of abounds with wild life in general and that includes the members !
RSPB tend to speak with "forked tongue " ocasions !

I say good riddance to Trump, he's a spoilt swine, I remember he was kicking off about wind turbines too over this - diddums will take his ball home if he doesn't get a perfect pretty view

A couple of years ago while on holiday in Australia I played one of the many courses on the Gold Coast south of Brisbane at Surfer's Paradise. The Gold Coast is Australia's fasting growing region with huge economic and tourism development going on.

The course was only a couple of minutes from the centre of town with several lakes. On the 16th green bordered by one of the lakes an osprey was happily diving for fish only twenty feet away from where I was putting, eventually flying off with a substantial catch. My best ever birdie on a golf course!

I've been lucky enough to play golf in lots of countries and have yet to see a course which does not harbour a variety of wildlife. Many courses actively encourage wildlife as it is undoubtedly a bonus for many golfers and as long as Trump's course architects do not intend to bulldoze the entire site into an American vision of a links course (God forbid) with accompanying Brigadoon World and or limit access to loadsamoneys then it should most certainly be an asset.

There are many instances of birds coming to terms with human intrusion on their patch. One of the most important bird breeding and stopover sites in Europe is at Dungeness in Kent, only yards from the nuclear power station. At Cape Canaveral (Kennedy) wildlife of all kinds is thriving despite the space centre.

No doubt the RSPB would be hiring Alfred Hitchcock if he were still alive to do a promo film.

It'll be enough to make his hair stand on end.

I understand the Trump organisation are wanting the Menie Links to be off limits to ramblers ?
That proposal will be shot doon in flames.
Back to the drawing board, Donald and golf course architects !

Its funny how no matter what the location or project, someone always comes up with a reason to stop them. Dont get me wrong I am all for looking after the enviroment and obviously there are certain no no's but one of the reasons Scotland has large area's of land never developed is because of the clearances. Back in the 70's there was a big outcry about the North Sea oil development and the enviromentalist said it would have a massive impact on Scotland's enviroment. But thirty years later the value to the economy and local employment and negligable impact has past. Scotland has to learn to work with developers and ensure its interests are looked after before,during and after the completion, but dont say no. If you look at Grangemouth and some of the small burns, I would prefer a International Country Club to the disgusting pollution there. A large percentage of Scottish people live in little boxes that cost way to much because the people who dont live in those boxes have decided that they want to fence them in with a green belt, that allows the yuppie do gooders who very seldom go there can feel good. People first everytime.

If Scotland wants to create long term employment opportunities for its population the first thing that needs to happen is people have got to get the Scottish chip of their shoulder about who is doing it and realise that tourism will be an important part of a successful Scottish economy that will add more than moneytry value to the community. Go For It because it is not only this project that could be stopped, Scotland will basically be putting up a sign for the international investors saying WE ARE NOT OPEN FOR BUSINESS, TRY SOMEWHERE ELSE and they will.

Lapwings & Redshanks are hardly rare on the East Coast of Scotland. This development has to be seen as an asset to this area.
When I am on a links area the wildlife is truly diverse and abundant, I don't see what the problem is.
Scotland still has vast unspoiled areas.
Protesting against Trumps plans creates positive publicity for the RSPB and no doubt a visitor center.
Birds are smart adaptable creatures, pity about the organisation that's meant to represent them

If you wanted to cut down some trees in you back garden the RSPB would complain given the chance. THere is simply no development these clowns will agree to.

I happen to live in the Gold Coast area that mirrorman happens to be talking about and believe me the develpments here in Golf Courses geared toward international visitors is massive. We live in a suburban enviroment and have Flocks of Parrots of various kinds flying overhead. We have Goana,s and other lizards wandering onto our property. The secret is managed and monitored development and acceptance that there could be short term impact. The Birdies and bugs will all come back and if anything with more of them. As I mentioned I worked in the oil Industry in the Seventies and believe it or not the fish thrived under the Oilrig. Animals are better at adapting than we are.

Good news! Scotland has more than enough golf courses. Well done the RSPB and shame on those who see only short term gain from this shabby development plan.

Many have spoken about the large amount of bird-life to be found on golf courses but no-one has said whether it is made up of species natural to the area, or how much is altered by by the construction of the rich mans playground.

whatever the project there will always be a narow interest group that will stand opposed to it.

If the RSPB did not stand against this project, the organisation would be inundated with letters of complaint from thousands of RSPB members, everywhere. (Few of whom may have any first hand knowledge about the Foveran area.)

If the area was to be submerged under housing, a petro chemical plant or was to become the site of a new airfield the RSPB may have a point. But to have the landscape modified and remodelled so that golf can be played , [by those with nothing better to do. ;-) ] .... this is really not such a calamatous thing for birdlife now ..is it. ? Should we not be confident that the birdlife will adapt and return to the reshaped dunes, as wildlife has at many many similar golf course sites around Scotland and the UK. ?

If I was Donald Trump, I would take my money and my project and relocate to Ireland where he was going to invest in the first place. Small minds always rule in Scotland.

As I work as a volunteer for the RSPB at its Scottish Headquarters in Ravelston Terrace, Edinburgh, I believe that my colleagues are correct in fighting such a massive project as the golf super-course in Aberdeenshire. Too often, these projects are carried out as means as putting more money into someone's pocket at the expense of our wildlife and environment, and to me, that is wrong.

#47

No doubt Scotland can do without the many millions of pounds that golf, and golf tourists bring to the Scottish economy every year as well as the huge positive publicity it creates for Scotland around the world?

Loch Lomond is one of the golf courses demonised for being a rich man's club and while I have no time for developments which go against people's access to courses it should be pointed out that Loch Lomond is only one of two courses in Europe awarded full Audobon status for conservation and restoration of natural environments.

Only in Scotland......

While I'll be disappointed if the project CAN'T go ahead....we could do with the jobs etc....but I do think it's right that we examine this VERY carefully indeed.
The final tipping point for me is that if, as reported, Trump's own nature assessment say major damage, then that would/should be the end of it. We do have lots of world-class courses, and with our new found environmental awareness, it's not just melting icebergs that threaten wild life, and ultimately human life. A golf course clarly isn't a major polluter along the lines of a chemical plant or an incinerator, but we're being warned that we can't kid ourselves that there wouldn't be damage in a sensitive area that we can't replace. If needs be, let Trump move on, and I'll continue hacking my way round the local municipal,..where I sure don't expect to meet Doanld or any of his chums !!
Sorry Donald, but that's the way it is.....even you can't ALWAYS get yer own way........this is an Independent nation after all........oops, sorry...I'm just a tad ahead of myself there !!

Golf course ? Lets remind ourselves exactly what the plans include: -

"The scheme includes proposals for a five-star luxury hotel with 450 bedrooms, 500 residential homes and four blocks of 238 timeshare apartments, each eight storeys high, a 10,000 sq ft convention centre, a clubhouse and a golf academy."

But hey what does it matter that you are concreting over an area of outstanding natural beauty when you're offering the natives the promise of some jobs ?

I used to live in Balmedie, right next door to where The Donald is proposing to sink some of his money. There was pretty few birds around - avian or human - especially in that 6 months of WInter when even the wet sand blows. Can't see myself the attraction of playing there in that 6 month Winter - but with global warming, who knows !
Let the Donald spend his money there - it would be a big improvement over whats there now.

I wouldn't call the RSPB an environmental charity. Near here there is a bird "sanctuary" where you can kill and maim the birds - if you pay.

And what about those seagulls which have been driven inland by fish shortages and are dependent on landfills to survive. Not pretty enough to warrant the attention of the RSPB? Not cute like robins? But still hungry, though.

Want to do your bit for birds? Just stop buying Bernard Matthews products.

Maybe the naysayers are right ..after all there are other options for the land.....nuclear fuel recycling, shipbreaking, quarrying,4x4 offroad driving,MoD firing range etc....but hold on a minute, wouldn't the Corporal Frasers also be against those?

Just don't expect anyone to come visit when the traditional peat fired 'black' houses become official housing policy and the ostrich becomes Scotland's national bird.

I can also add that if I had my way, we wouldn't be an organisation which is run from England (our head office is currently in Bedfordshire in England).

As you will all have seen from the politcal sections of this website, I would be happier if Scotland became an independent Scottish Socialist republic and in view of that, Scotland should have its own charity for protecting birds which I would name as the SSPB (Scottish Society for the Protection Of Birds), which would then be run in Scotland and from Scotland. That way, we would have have a much better chance of being able to take the interests of Scotland's bird population at heart.

However, the reason why I work for the RSPB is because I care about the welfare at heart, and has nothing to do with how our organisation is set up.

When I said welfare, I meant to say wildlife.

#58

...and we all know what has happened to the many former 'independent' socialist republics. Still, I suppose a new international body of comrades could be created with Scotland, North Korea,Burma and Yemen as founder members.

There certainly wouldn't be any of those damned elitist golf courses around then and the birds would be pretty safe apart from being eaten out of existence.

..I take it those 'Scottish' birds would include the Ospreys which fly in every year from West Africa.

Jobs! Wages! Why would they need them?
"If they have no bread let them eat cake"

RSPB is a shower of Willy Warblers who haven't a clue about REAL LIFE.

Now go away ya pollutions and get a life, your "How dare humans walk on the same earth as our pretty little featherd friends" attitude just proves you lot live in cloud Cuckoo Land (no pun intended)

#32

What's the RSPB's stance re the Bonxie and the situation in Shetland?

Typical. Do we want an economy or not ?

Bollocks to the RSPB and I say that as a non car driving Vegetarian.

It's not the golf course which is a minor part of the development that is the problem,it is the huge hotel and timeshare development which is the problem,Trump is not doing this to create a golf course,it is all about massive profits and that money going abroad,all we get is more minimum wage jobs for poles.

Todays comments seem to have more idiot contributors than the usual wise words to be found here! What ecenomic benefits do you really suppose a large golf course will bring to the area? May be it will employ a handful of people, but do you suppose they will all be locals? And do you imagine the visiting golfers will spend anything in the local community save for making the coffers of the golf club fatter? And do you imagine the club itself will obtain its supplies from local shops and not go well outside the area to wholesalers? No, no, no. But what the golf course will bring will be close cut grass spaces in which beggar all can live save for small insects, and certainly not nesting birds, so close cut that nothing could be, or would be, allowed to graze off it. No, golf developments of this kind are about serving the needs of rich people, and then especially people who don't live in the area but who will communte into it just for a game and then go away.

As for the RSPB being responsible for the demise of garden birds ... what rubbish! The RSPB is to be heralded for trying to keep the Scottish Golden Eagle from slipping into extinction, for fighting to keep alive that other very Scottish bird, the Grouse. The real main killers of garden birds is loss of habitat, pollution, climate change and domestic cats, not raptors!

Are there enough people over there to keep the course busy or will they all be flying in by sustainable Jumbo?

I would have thought a golf course was a good habitat for the birdies, such as the eagle and the occasional albatross.

71 - occasional albatross ? more chance finding a dodo.

#69

As one of those 'rich people' who play golf...my father and grandfather worked down the pits and my mother in a Victorian style woollen mill I take exception to your comments.

If you knew anything about golf and especially it's tradition of openness and hospitality in Scotland you might avoid becoming one of the 'idiots' you so dislike.

So golf, in your unequal world is a game of exploitation and class division is it? I suggest you try a bit of reading....'Preffered Lies' by Andrew Greig and find out what the game of golf is really all about.

Mirrorman #60 - You mentioned North Korea, mebbe Don can invite his fellow megalomaniac, sorry I meant, man of vision Cuddly Kim, the Beloved Leader of that country. As Kim once managed 8 hole-in-ones in a round that would be real coup for Don's Aberdeenshire course.

Scotland has enough Golf courses for toffs to play on.
Enough football fields for the rest.
Nature needs its space too.

..sorry 'Preferred'....rich people don't need to be able to spell properly.

#74

There were scurrilous rumours at the time because of the fat one's playboy lifestyle that they were not achieved on a golf course.

Naw I don't believe that, that's just lies spread by capitalist running dogs and counter-revolutionaries.
Anyway, Augusta National should invite him to play in the Masters.

#60

This isn't the appropriate place on the Scotsman's website to be arguing abouth republicanism.

However, I WILL say that our IT department is based down south, and that means that we need to contact our customer services department in England if anything goes wrong with our computer system. That is NOT ideal if one of our computers here in Scotland needs to be physically fixed and that is why our IT department should be based in Scotland, and why there shou;d be a separate Scottish organisation to deal with the protection of our birds.

#62

I work for the RSPB, but I don't get paid by them as I am only a volunteer. Therefore, the RSPB are good at creating jobs, but may not necessarily be good at creating paid employment. At the end of the day, we need to realise that the RSPB are only a charity and that means that if we do choose to work for them, we should NOT neccesarily expect to get anything in return from them in financial terms because our organisation needs all of the money that it can get in order to do the job which it was originally set up to do.

#78

...but what if he wasn't allowed to win? The term bunker might take on a completely new meaning...as in nuclear.

"contrary to stated policies of Aberdeenshire Council and also the Scottish Biodiversity Strategy. "

Why have policies and then ignore them?

Aberdeenshire Council is wrong and it should be seen as being illegal to go against the Stated Policy.

As for chemical drenched golf courses, Scotland already has plenty.

This golf course isn't for Scots, neither is Donald Trump.

Off ye go back to New York DT.

The RSPB and simular organisations have too much say in what goes on. It is better to build a golf course in the North East of Scotland, than in Spain or Portugal where they need large amounts of water.
Bird life will adapt to the changes as they always do that is nature.

Golf Courses EVERYWHERE!!!!AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Why doesn't He buy land with a golf course already on it and "Improve" that to "Best in World" status(which would be a subjective matter)

I hate golfers....what they wear.....how they act......AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH

This is very much a case of the tail wagging the dog. Much as I am for the protections of birds and animals it is not at the expense of major developments which help human beings and in this case, an entire country.

This golf course will attract the world’s best golfers and indeed at least one major world golf event each year, televised all over the world. It will be a major asset to the North East and indeed to Scotland as a whole.

Let the RSPB give their recommendations by all means but trying to kill the project completely is utterly ridiculous.

If You dare make a sound or movement when Golfers are hiting their ball, they look at You like You were dirt ........and they stand waiting in an annoying way leaning on their club with one hand and the other one on their waist looking at You like You were some kind of criminal or something and You shouldn't be within range of them..........I would like to go and kick the club from under him.........and take his bag and throw it in the sea!

NO 24
I agree with you RSPB, SSSI First you have so many abbreviation then the refusal. Of course even I am confused. I don’t want this. Read this again. "The 'environmental footprint' of this project will be enormous... The damage to biodiversity, over the whole site, and to the integrity of the Foveran Links SSSI, is so severe that we believe strongly the application should not be approved." footprint' of this project will be enormous...now you are talking TZEFP Tanzanian Elephants Foot prints… The damage to biodiversity, over the whole site…Have you checked this.? Bio and diversy too many word. No wonder I don’t want this. Biology is okay… and to the integrity of the Foveran . Intergreetyyy.. too this is sir bad..

NO 88 You are also usiing Pi*********offff What is that

A golf course is like a giant spongue that seeps up all the scum of the community: Especially the Clubhouse which is the Nucleus of attraction for all the gob**ites and buisybodies of the community.......and it even attracts these undesirable "Who But I" Types from hundreds of miles away to move up here; and form that disgusting entity known as the Golf Commitee AAaAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

There are over 550 golf courses in Scotland and the links course is particularly "Worshiped" by those "all things golf" worshipers: The reason this guy had trouble finding a links site for this project is because ,wherever else He looked, there was probably another golf course already there........Maybe e will appreciat Our little wildernesses a little more when there is no more there.

I am sure the big donald would have no trouble building a course in the simpson desert-plenty of sand to build really big bunkers-might match that type of hair-do that is called a ?.

#7 and #14

you obviously don't live in areas which were of environment significance or abundent in wildlife prior to the development.

this habitat is used by many rare and specialist species which can't simply make a transition to living on a golf course. I'm sure the course, if it were to happen, would attract more of certain species - but these would be the more common species not in need of the protection that is currently afforded in the SSSI.

And quite frankly, Scotland doesn't really need another links course - we have an abundance of them most of which are easily accessible for all. And I severly doubt that any serious golf tourists would choose an inevitably tacky Trump development, over an Old Tom or the history, style and character of our established courses. Especially as Trumpland Scotland would also likely outprice them

#86 www.edinburghtechniques.co.uk, Brian Hill

What don't you understand?

What's the point of Council Strategy Plans and then ignore them?

This development intends to restrict ordinary Scots to have the right to walk along beaches, links.

Scots have fought for the freedom to roam, so Mr Big with pots of money comes along and then says he wants to restrict our rights to walk along beeches.

That's been happening at one Highland Loch already when some laird sold land to individuals who say the own part of the loch in front of their property and are fighting to stop locals from walking along the beech.

Get a grip. Is this another case of "I've got money and I am going to restrict Scots from walking and enjoying the bonnie banks of Scotland"?
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?

Soon we will all be like those people in Barbados with its miles of empty beaches. Meanwhile locals are squashed into a small area - shoulder to shoulder!

Well it needs Scots to waken up this man and say No. Off ye go, Scotland has enough world class chemical drenched golf courses.

Gremlins!

Trump wants to challenge Scots rights to roam Scotland!

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1425&id=52413...

It tends to show how low our aspirations are when we can get as excited as we seem to be doing about a ruddy golf course.

If it has to be something sporting then I'd rather have a decent motor racing track so you could build an automotive technology park around it and develop some value adding high growth companies that actually makes things and exports them and employs some Scottish engineering graduates.

Aberdeen is alledgedly Europe's Energy Capital after all..

"Well it needs Scots to waken up this man and say No. Off ye go"

After all who wants £300 million when you can have economic decline, poverty, blackouts, hypothermia & the chance to girn about how dreadful the English/Americans/big business/smokers/scientists/Tories/Labour are to impose it on us.

It may mean no jobs but at least it allows the RSPB to prove how tough they are.

Now I know where the epithet 'birdbrained' originated.....God help an independent Scotland, the future Albania of northern Europe.

Just imagine the new national heraldic motto 'Whit bit o' the word no dae ye no understand' and the new national anthem..'Always look on the worst side of life.'

Build the course and get a life.

I live in a two golf course country club with a small lake behind my house. We've got bass and tilapia in the lake,turtles all sizes. Alligators come and go.Birds,we've got birds,egrets,sand hill cranes,grey storks,5 types of ducks. Armadillos digging around, bob tail lynx,rabbits,racoons etc.[and lets not forget the snakes.] The 'nimbys' [not in my back yard] said the development would ruin the ecology of the land,[they always use hi-faluting phrases]. The opposite has happened. An osprey just dived down and plucked a fish from my lake. Nature in harmony with humans.[ I can use hi-faluting phrases also.]

#7 Tatties ower the side.
You must be a golfer in South Africa...the bush in S.a is not the same as the coast lines of Scotland...use your heid man.

As for the DONALD:

First of all you dont want THE DONALD to come pollute Scotland with his cheesy hairdo.

Secondly he can always build a golf course on Rosie O'Donnell's belly..this way they can both float out to sea and imagine a floating golf course.

With his hair do, the gannets, sooty sheerwaters, sea gulls and albatrosses can nest in his buffont coiffed follicles to their hearts content.

The bugger is a shark...you have enough of them with the Lib Dems and Labour Party...do you reall need the Donald.

What? A sensible, logical conclusion followed by action? Where is this amazing event occurring? Oh, right, not the USA. Definitely not the USA "under God" and unfettered capitalism.

Sorry to intervene with this typically-grim-faced, business-like brief, but it's galling not to have received any mention in the Scottish sport media - of me or my take-over plans, for several days now.

Life can be such a bummer at times!

Sincerest apologies for changing the subject.

Not to worry Donald. Both the publically funded charity RSPB and publically funded SNH were ignored by the Western Isles council with regards wind turbines which, like Donalds project, has millions of pounds attached to it.

I'm sure Aberdeen cooncil will do the same.

I am a Canadian/American citizen and have lived in Washington state for the last 17 years. What I have to say may not hold much ground as I am not a citizen of Scotland, however, as an avid tourist to Scotland, I would like to make a comment. First of all, Scotland is already riddled with golf courses as is the US. I for one enjoy golfing, however, if I really wanted to enjoy the sport, I could stay in my own backyard or enjoy one of many other courses you offer. What draws tourists to Scotland is the very unique natural landscape, wildlife, culture and friendly people.

I have graduated with a B.A in Urban and Regional Planning in which I have dealt with many environmental impact statements and I can tell you that the damage caused by a golf course is irreversible. Not only do the wildlife suffer (which they do) issues dealing fertilizer and waste runoff into the surrounding water sources is tremendous. If you take into account the size of Trump's proposed golf course, you can imagine what the result would be.

Makes me prood to be Scots. They werent about to give the true reason, that Trump is an offense up with which we will not put. So they spoke about birdies. That's OK for me

Thanks for that Cherokee, however, as an avid tourist of Scotland, how much CO2 are you producing to get here? Your damage to the environment is to be condemed.

Also, around 96% of Scotlands population lives on 4% of the landmass. That means around 96% of Scotland is empty, which means there is plenty of room and room for all at that.

With our extremely high environmental standards, any such pollution from Trumps play field will be pounced on and stopped.

Basically, Scotland is as much for the people of Scotland and invited investors as it is for all things flaura and fauna and both can co-exist quite happily.

It's not only the game or the course that is going to bring people there.
think on the food and drink trade that will supply the course, hotel and local restaurants etc, with the influx of tourists etc.
let's get scotland on the go again, lapwings etc do
not pay taxes or hire help, they do very little in life.
This is a chance for the area to get some of the local people in a job.
there is a casino in connecticut, that started with 16 indians (native) that now is the biggest in the world
hiring over 11,000 people full time. 18 wheeled trucks delivering night and day, with supply's.

Not many people from Aberdeenshire posted anything on this blog.

Well, just so you all know...

The planned development might affect a few birds, a few less humans (it's not a popular ramble) and will have an amazing effect on the Aberdeenshire economy.

For so many years, this area of Scotland has been the poor relation in terms of major investment, and at the same time has paid more than it's fair share towards the Scottish economy.

"It's time" for us now, and I'm sure you'll find the vast majority of the 450,000 people who live in the North East feel the same way.

I really do take objection to reactionary environmentalists crawling out of the woodwork at any opportunity, spouting off half truths and making 'educated' assumptions about this area.

There, I've said my piece. I'll come down off my soapbox now.

Go'n yersel' Donald!

I completely agree with you Dave From Barra..I have contributed to CO2 utilizing the airlines, however, I don't think that anyone can claim innocence in that area. I completely understand that your economy wants to benefit from this course, however, the effects will be permanent. In addition, Trump's business record has not always been successful. He was lucky enough to fall into $ from his father ended up claiming bankruptcy in the 1990's.

I think there are a couple of major points to be considered. Firstly, will the locals actually benefit in any way from the project? Will there be employment and training oportunities? Will locals be able to get reduced golf fees and hotel rooms? If the enswer to these questons is 'yes', then I think the next question is "will the benefits to the local population outweigh the potential damage to the envirnoment?" If so, why shouldn't the proposal go ahead? if not, then, perhaps Mr. Trump could modify his plans and build in another part of Scotland where the environment is not so fragile.

Read, digest and remember no 20 - the RSPB is not a force for the good , we must hope that despite its power backed by the millions it has raised from people who prefer birds to humans that their ridiculous viewpoint is ignored

He learned form his mistakes. Neither you or I have come come from bankruptcy to become a successful millionaire.

It is not permanent, nothing is, ever. Look at this link as a reminder of how nature can resume anything she desires

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4825028.stm

As Aberdeen is in a NZ (Nitrate Vulnerable Zone) and chemical ferts and pesticide/herbicides will be closely monitored. Farmers comply and they tend fields of a much larger area than this proposed golf course.

Most folks in Aberdeen either are apathetic or have welcome it. Few if any have objected to it.

The big worry is not the initial assault on the environment proposed by Mr Trump; it is the unceasing chemical drenching that will be required to sustain the unnatural landscape that is a golf course.

Kin ye no read Pictus? Aberdeen is an NVZ area.

"Thou green-crested lapwing
Thy screaming forbear".
We're selling your home
To the guy with big hair!

Just an old Yank here, having worked at CC when young, know the inside of them, all they do is destroy the natural habitat needed for native creatures to survive.....you may, after the bulldozers have had there say, with the planting, normally of non-native plants and trees, bring in birds, etc. but having already destroyed the natural product. Trump has built in this country and have the dismal sight of his CC to look at, just another way for him to make his money. The employment once the destroying is accomplished is minor. One G.C. can use only so many maint. men to maintain it, so many golf pros to teach, so many office workers to count his coin, the benefit of what he does goes into his pocket. He only wants the beauty of Scotland and the prestige it brings him to say he built in your country. Tar and Feathers would be the best for you to do. Run him out of there and back to this country where he can continue to do his damage. Scotland is too beautiful to destroy. And, I am just another Yank, but have no use for his kind, big $ is an alliance of Bush and needs to be taken down before it destroys the entire world. Fight to keep the beauty and unspoiled areas. Those who want another CC so they do not have to wait 10 mins. for a tee time are self centered egotists. Trump at the top of the list.

#117 - I hear what you say, but the area proposed for the course is not now under cultivation. Why add to the load?

Eh, we ran his family out of Scotland in the first place. His mother comes from Tong in the Isle of Lewis. She left to make a better life for herself, her son has done well and is welcome back to spend his hard earned in his mothers native country. Don't see why America should get to keep all his lovely wonga.

Please stop trying to preserve Scotland or stop progression or inhibit economy. That has happend for too long now.

Economy Pictus. Oil won't last forever.

Lots of comments...The final verdict isn't in yet. Wildlife always readjusts itself. Golf courses are a plus, not a minus. Donald is an expert at this and has never failed. It's not about making money, it's about providing excellent quality to an area that is in need of revenue. The RSPB is just making sure his plans will be environmental friendly..and they will be.

Faye #98. Thanks for that link. Nice picture of the beach but it must have been an off day. Not much roaming going on. I was at the Portobello beach, near Edinburgh in 1981. I was amazed at the amount of sewage in the water i.e. tampons,condoms etc. There must have been a sewage discharge pipe nearby. I hope that this problem has been corrected since then. DT will build his golf course somewhere, i am sure. He already owns what he considers to be the best golf course in the world, in the States. I am sure that he would be welcomed here if he wanted to build his golf course and resort. Regards

I have done research on this subject and here are some valid points that I think are worth noting.

The bulk of the foreign exchange earned from golf courses and golf tourism does not stay in the local economy. The benefits which do remain are reaped by a few business people and their patrons.

The green golf package can be compared to the Green Revolution package in agriculture.
Golf courses are in fact another form of monoculture, where exotic soil and grass, chemical fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides and weedicides, as well as machinery, are all imported to substitute for natural ecosystems.

These landscaped foreign systems create stress on local water supplies and soil, at the same time being highly vulnerable to disease and pest attacks. Just as the Green Revolution is collapsing in country after country, the Golf Green is also fraught with ecological problems.

Whether or not it can ever gain respect from the environmental community should not matter. The bottom-line should be that protecting the system that engenders your livelihood is first priority.
You don't have to go out and find an environmentalist to hug. Just take a few moments to listen to what they have to say.

Well I'd have to disagree with 111 and 115, living and working in the NE, I honestly cannot say that I know a single person who is in favour of this scheme. Most, admittedly, are apathetic but those who do have a view on this issue are wholeheartedly opposed over a range of issues:

What does it add to Scottish golf or tourism that we don't already have (and have better)? Is there any research to show that this will bring additional tourism or money to Scotland or just redistribute that already there? If the course is built to any good standard, will it attract additional competition to Scotland or again simply move that already there?

What, genuinely, will it do in terms of local jobs or economy? It seems to be a rather self-contained development so in real terms how much income will reach local businesses? Whose unemployment figures will it help? Is this (American run) resort going to be any different from any other large hotel in Scotland and pay solid enough wages to employ British workers? Even in the construction, that's debatable.

And for all these glorious benefits, how much are we willing to sacrifice? The damage of our environment and heritage? The local extinction of species? The restriction of public access to a local beauty spot? The setting of a dangerous precedent in development in sensitive areas across Scotland. Or just any sense of pride for having let a foreign business man of dubious standards ride roughshod over us for the sake of his own ego and pocket.

Dave, I was afraid you might say that! With global warming and our present ways of husbandry, the oil just might outlast the soils. But, on the bright side, the last edible stuff on the planet will probably be used as finger foods in the 19th Holes of the world!

Hey far be it from me to dictate what goes on your the North East. If Trump wanted to turn Barra into an exclusive golf resort, I'd be waiting at the ferry terminal with open arms.

I have to disagree with a lot of HZ's comments though but time is against me and cannot go into detail as to some of the point made.

Cherokee did you read my message?You are full of c--p.youre writing is full of gobbledeygook and made up nonsense.I am looking out of my window at the reality,you are living in an ivory tower.

Every time I read about a developer, native born or foreign born, in this case, Mr. Trump who is not
a citizen of Britain, using their wealth to buy up land
& ruin it anywhere they decide to live or spend money, I get disgusted. The shore line, sky and land scape, forestry, desert area and mountain areas become wrecked. The wild life, ocean life & eco system is ruined & most likely will not readjust. As vast wealth buys up land, it also buys up houses where ordinary people live & this too can be "developed" & we can sit on a piece of furniture at the kerb or be forced into a place where one can choose to pay rent or buy food.

Although I completely disagree with the proposed exploitation of land for the use of a golf course, on the other hand this may be a good idea. Maybe Trump will decide to move to Scotland and leave our country. Lord knows we can't stand him here. And a question to chics311..is gobbledeygook another "hi-falutin" phrase as you so called it in your previous post? All in jest of course. I respect your views.

Why is it that it takes Americans to develop money making and job creating ideas in Scotland? Are all you Scots just sitting around crying in your beer, waiting with your hand out?
What's wrong with the entrepreneur spirit in Scotland.
How many jobs will the lapwings create. If it wasn't for the wind and the sheep St. Andrews golf course would never have been designed.

I think to say that the alleged effect of having a golf course & using some fertiliser on it will make serious "irreversible" damage is pure nonsense. It is the sort of scaremongering which the whole taxpayer funded eco-scare lobby uses. This is a golf course - it is not concreting over downtown Aberdeen.

If fertiliser is being used there will, by definition, be more plants & therefore more wildlife - this is not a catastrophe.

The countryside is not somewhere to be wrapped in plastic & preserved in stasis forever. Nature has never been in a static "balance" - not in the middle ages, not even before humans reached these shores. Those who argue against this on "environmental" grounds merely mean they personally should have a veto over anybody ever being allowed to do anything.

126 HZ
You must have extraordinary social circles in the NE because I have not spoken to one person who is against this development.

Economically, it will drive much needed transport infrastrustrure, introduce quality retailers and hoteliers to the area, and increase local take from the tourist sector dramatically. Major events will definitely bring in extra cash to the whole area.

And by the way, the 'local beauty spots' are Balmedie Beach and Forvie Sands. They will be untouched!

Don't think you really know the area. that well.

The Donald does not understand the meaning of the word no. An all too common affliction of multi-billionaires.

I have become aware that the majority of Americans are against this course even though it is in Scotland and will not be adversely affecting us. And yet on the other hand there are Scots who are for it. Maybe they should take a trip to the good ole US of A see how Trump has ruined our landscape and then make a decision.

137 casey

I've been to America. I've driven thousands of miles through beautiful, unspoiled land. Enjoy it!

Why don't you come to the NE of Scotland to see what I mean!

Cherokee, Wise up and stop making things up,hardly anyone in America knows or cares about what Trump does in Scotland. I know about it because I'm from Scotland and keep up with whats going on. 99% of development that Trump has done has been in cities,he has not 'ruined our landscape,' in addition mr cherokee Trump was voted in a nationwide pollas one of the most admired men in America.I do not respect your point of view,it's all made up nonsense.

If golf courses provide jobs and are so good for the wild life, why not build them where there is considerable unemployment and on land unfit for useful agriculture?
There is plenty of bothin Lanarkshire e.g. round Forth and Wilsontown, and it is closer to airports with tran-atlantic flights.

getinnn...

take it easy-nurse will be along soon with a little something that will make things feel better!!!!
The nasty golf balls will not come and get you in the night-honest. Have you tried counselling?

Wow!! chics311...you have some serious hostility penned up. First of all, it's Mrs. Cherokee not Mr.Cherokee. That is sexism if I have ever heard it. 2nd of all, I think you were trying to say "poled", not "pollas". And who particpated in this pole? I guarantee it wasn't the general public. Unless you consider high end corporate America the general public. 3rd, what were you saying about Trump just developing in cities? If you do your research you will find that he owns the following...Palm Beach estate: 43,000 square feet (4,000 m²) on a large oceanfront lot in Palm Beach.

And another thing..you mentioned that you live on a golf course and the wildlife flourish. I would bet anything that you are not drinking directly from the runoff from the golf course and it must be nice to have an already landscaped backyard. I can see why you are so for this.

And as far as made up nonsense..having 2 university degrees in both Urban and Regional Planning and Geography, in addition to working in the field for years now, including completing multiple environmental impact statements on golf courses gives me a little bit of credibility. I have worked in this field to promote smart growth while at the same time working to keep the community sustainable both economically and environmentally. What is it you do again?

Great news!! Who wants a bunch of boring golfers roaming around talking about their last lodge meeting and saying "are you a member of the club?" anyway? As for the jobs...in ten years the whole place would be as pukingly "Scottish" as Loch Ness.
Bravo RSPB !!

oh yeah, by the way...I agree with Mrs. Cherokee

Cannae see ma burd
Endangered species burd
Cannae see ma burd
With ma anorak on

Life's an effing turd
Human's are absurd
Oh, wait. Quiet, don't be heard
Here comes another one

The problem is that it's one of these "so what" types of projects... It may create a few construction jobs for a while but thereafter the value adding aspect of the ongoing business will be pretty low.

Now if it spawned an industry making clubs, balls and all the other golfing paraphanalia then that could be economically interesting.. But it won't of course.

I wonder what you lot would say if the military
confiscated this area for a training ground like
Barry/Buddon just doon the road??

Nice to see that money cannot buy anything. What a shock for dear Donald!

Biodiversity, learnt it at university
Got a degree, you see
What to do with it
Cash in, pay for it
Green millionaires have yet to be.

Spout a heap of s***
They don't know it yet
Repeat it and you'll get a fee

End up with a chair, anywhere, anywhere
How I'm glad I got my BsC

That was a poem from the FHS (F*** Humans Society)

69# keep spouting the rubbish that the RSPB puts out.
I do hope that the worst landlord in Scotland get's it's powers revoked under the SNP and the land pout to better use and management.
The RSPB did NOT save the golden eagle.

Well well the mighty have spoken.Being an Aberdonian myself it seems to me that anytime anyone wants to do something good in the north there is always a lot of gripeing and grumbling from folks who dont even live in that area.I suppose if there issomething that us Scots do well is gripe and grumble. GO FOR IT ABERDEENSHIRE.

Listen to the Americans. They want rid of Donald Trump. Why would we want him here? Avid tourists make up 20% of the Highland economy, we like avid tourist to Scotland, but we don't want Scotland riddled with chemical drench golf courses.]

As one commenter said:

"What draws tourists to Scotland is the very unique natural landscape, wildlife, culture and friendly people."

Also, no one seems to realised that Donald Trump wants to stop us Scots from walking on our own beaches. Get real. Waken up to the man who thinks he can curtail our freedom to roam Scotland rights.

So Mr Trump wants to build a super course. Here in Oz it's the Japanese finacing courses and ruining huge coastal areas. Fortunately for us that's happening mostly in Queensland and the east coast and they are not too bright over there. Didn't the Japs also buy out Gleneagles?
Does Scotland need another super expensive golf course? I think not. Golf everywhere in the UK is far too expensive. On my fairly regular trips home I always took my clubs but not anymore. The cost is horrendous.
Here, we have a magnificent links course(rated one of the best in OZ) and the membership fee is around 250 pounds per year.
For the same amount you could probably get two or three rounds at Dornoch or St. Andrews. My opinion, you are all being ripped off by the golf clubs.
I don't intend to get into the envronmental argument, you can sort that out yourselves.

Another super expensive playground where most ordinary golfers will never be able to afford to play, you need that like you need another Tony Blair.

By the way, I am a member of the RSPB.

mrs cherokee,what a dopey name,I can tell you are a tree hugger and away out there in left field.A pole is a guy from Poland or the thing you probably dance around.A poll the way I used it is a sampling of opinion. You should have gotten some grounding in grammar during your education.What I do is debunk idiots like you,His property in Florida is a golf club, not a private estate. Do you want to talk about Edwards humungous estate or Gores massive carbon footprint and estate.Go do a War dance and write some more garbage.

cherokee, the phrase is 'pent up' not penned up.

Another great point made The Wizard. And chics311, sad to say but your comment is not even worth a response.

Chics311...please reference dictionary.com.

pen2 /p?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pen] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, penned or pent, pen·ning.
–noun 1. a small enclosure for domestic animals.

pint /pa?nt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pahynt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun a liquid and also dry measure of capacity, equal to one half of a liquid and dry quart respectively, approximately 35 cubic inches (0.473 liter). Abbreviation: pt, pt.

oh..and if you are wondering about the pint. I am suggesting that you might have had a couple before you started your rant.

That was a brilliant decision, and I would hope that it holds up against any challanges. "The Donald" - is a"joke" in this country. Look at the billions of dollars his investors have lost.

Bloggs from the usual anti-American whiners.The news about Scotland is depressing . --Foreign companies buyiing Scottish ones, politics in a mess-unemployment high-except for foreigners who will work-- "national heath service" in a mess -- prisons full with few guards It appears from the British newspapers that the country is depending more and more on tourism which is increasing, and golf is one of the big attractions. Scotland is popular in the USA About once a week someone here in Alabama tells me that they are going to Scotland ,asks about places to visit, brochures and other information. Now there is an opportunity for a new gollf and tourist area with jobs and a great boost to the economy and some narrow organisation tries to ruin it. What have they to offer in return. Driving around Scotland as I do each year there are an overabundance of places for wild animals and birds and a great shortage of hotels and industry in many areas. In Alabama yesterday a major foriegn steel company announced it is comng to this State, which has about the same population number as Scotland to build a 1.5 Billion Pound modern factory. It was brought here by active enthusiastic people in the government and business community with the support of the local people,and will provide many thousands of all kinds of jobs for 2 years to build factories and the roads etc and then it will provide 2,700 permanent high paying jobs in a rural area near Mobile and the Gulf of Mexico. Related industries, and suppliers will follow in the surrounding towns. Do not let RSBP prevent new jobs , tourists, and local business and taxes from coming to Scotland Instead the Government and people should be putting thir efforts into attracting industriies to Scotland

All these golf courses appear to me an eyesore throughout Scotland. So leave this place to the wildlife.
Such prestige projects create good profit for a handfull people, if ever, not for the general public.

Do you really need another golf
course?. Is it advisable to
develop every square meter of
the land?. The answer is no to
both questions.

Cherokee you have stated as fact that the majority of Americans are opposed to this development.

Now I hesitate to suggest that as an obvious eco-lobbyist you have just been making up this & indeed all the stuff you have been saying about golf courses causing "irreversible" damage. On the other hand it seems improbable to me that the majority of Americans will even have heard of it.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide your evidence that what you say about 150 million Americans sharing your opinion, or indeed anything else you say, is indeed in some way truthful & not merely the sort of lies we have come to expect from the eco-lobby.

Certainly Donald Trump wants to make money. That is his thing. Very simply, he and his group should be asked to prove what benefits this golf course/residential development will bring to he local scene. Vague replies, like 'it will bring jobs' are not acceptable. What kinds of jobs? Is this a development for the so called 'elite' or wealthy people in Scoland. I don' believe there are many of those in the north-east. And those that do live there have got their lovely homes and golf courses already. So, Donald - what're you going to do for us? We ain't gonna let ya jist walk in and walk away!Will a bird sanctuary be added. C'mon, Donald, you have got to get serious about the care of the world and its species, which depend on upon each other. No good just saying a few birdies will disappear but a few other ones will take their place...what are the consequences. If you won't invest in proving to the northeast that your idea is good for us as well as you, they'll never let you do it!

Donald Trump is not just another rich American businessman as many post imply. He is a sleazy, anti-social, bigoted loudmouth who slides from avoiding to pay his way to bankruptcies and advocacy of low paying jobs.
For gawds sake do your homework on this guy before waxing ignorance.
Is this the role of Scottish Nationalists, to turn your country and its heritage over to foreign investment?
Oh and his mother came from Scotland!
The prisons are full of social deviants whose mothers come from Scotland.
Just get with it and remember that your mouth is not just something you open to change feet.

Spot on Jake 166 - but you do not appreciate that the mindset of the antis is deeply embedded and will always find some spurious quasi moralistic excuse to stop anything happening .

The birdies would have stopped St Andrew's ever happening if they could have .
The RSPB drivel is typical birdie bollo--s from an organisation and a mentality which is all too prevalent in Scotland .
In fact , the birds and wildlife generally would do better than ever as they already do in numerous such developements .

Trump's pedigree and record are irrelevant in all this and yet for the

To clarify...what I meant when I said that most of the Americans were against this proposal came from the responses from this blog. Sorry for the confusion.

#162 Jake, What utter rubbish you speak!
#172 Lawrie, the echoing clone.
#171 Virgil, you do know a thing or two.
Jake, the Steel industry in Birmingham, Alabama has been struggling under Chapter Eleven, the Dissent Decree and Right to Work Legislation for all the years before George Wallace and since. It is one of the most impoverished sites in the United States and still bears the brand of racism that was inherent with the KKK. If, today, it is open to International takeover it is because of these things that you advocate should be happening in Scotland. Please read #171 Virgil again and please pay attention to his closing remark.