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I blame global warming.
I don't want to disparage the usefulness of domesticated bees, and I hope they discover what is wrong, and quickly, but I remember reading somewhere that wild bees and other insects are responsible for the bulk of pollination.The good thing about the domesticated bee industry (apiculture?) is of course the production of honey. It is also a source of employment.
Here in the US this is becoming a major problem. It is amazing when the beekeepers take 500 hives to an area in say California to pollinate fruit and food crops and a week later 1/2 of the bees have just disappeared! They have not been able to find any dead bees and as far as any electronic stuff none is around for many. many sq. miles.
With such a mass disappearance it makes one almost believe that some civilization in the vast cosmos is teleporting them to their planet.
I feel the problem lies with the people who genetically alter our food stuff. A year or 2 ago I read that the genetic enhancement of certain crops, protected them from the insects and pests that had attacked them over the years. The damage done by the pests made for poor crop harvests. It stands to reason that the new genetically modified crops being pest resistant must kill of their attackers. Whatever kills the pests must also be carried through into the nectar that attracts the bees and also the pollen and must have the potential to decimate the bees as they do their neccesary pollenating.
The French have banned the systemic insecticide IMIDACLOPRID which is used on oilseed rape, sunflowers, maize, beans and potatoes, as well as winter barley and wheat. More than 50,000 colonies were lost in France in the period 1998 - 2001, which the commerical beekeepers ascribed to Imidacloprid. This is a neurotoxin which attacks the nervous system of all animals but especially insects, earthworms, beetles, ladybirds, lacewings - you name it. Unlike previous insecticides, this one is INSIDE the plant - it is systemic. It is in the sap, the leaves, the flowers and crucially the pollen and the nectar. Over 2.5 million hectares of crops in the UK are sprayed with this stuff every year and it kills over 99.9% of every earthworm, beetle, ladybird, butterfly or whatever in those fields. Sadly the beekeeping establishment are in bed with the insecticide manufacturers and even mentioning this topic is a 'no-no'.
we are currently seeing a great mass-extinction of insects and invertebrates on all British farmland where this and other poisons are sprayed hedge to hedge. It is agricultural napalm. why does this matter? No insects means no birds: skylarks, bluetits, peewits, curlews, redshank all feed on caterpilalrs and worms. Oh and yes, they deny that this nerve poison which theya re putting in the foods you eat - has any effect on humans. Now where have I heard that before? Dieldrin? DDT? Aldrin? Furocarb? -.....continue for the 2,000 or so pesticides LEGALLY allwoed to be sprayed on your food.
#5 - I'm afraid you're right.
With such a mass disappearance it makes one almost believe that some civilization in the vast cosmos is teleporting them to their planet. Theo, are you on 'this' planet?
and #6
Might be something in what comment 5 says.You don`t tinker with nature and we should never allow these mad scientists to do so.Dolly the sheep is a perfect example.That lot at Roslin are in the "mad" cateogary.
Mankind sprays hundreds of deadly pesticides, fungicides and herbicides about in order to make more money; produces genetically engineered crops ditto; overheats the planet and squanders its resources, and all with barely a notion or a modicum of concern as to what the consequences of our actions are going to be - then we act SURPRISED when the environment shows signs of the damage we're inflicting.
Never underestimate the sheer mindboggling stupidity of the human race!
6 well posted No wonder they buzzed off!
We need more control over what goes on.
Something else noted by its absence is the rat. Usually in the country they trot off to the fields in Summer and return to the barns in Winter. Have we seen any this year? Not one. And we have the odd mouse - sure sign there are no rats. A couple of years ago there were no sparrows. Now we have hundreds. We also have squads of bumblebees buzzing round. People rave on about detrimental agricultural practice but in this area we have huge areas of natural woodland,hill, permanent pasture, hedges etc and still we have these unexplained fluctuations in the wild animal/insect populations. Something else is influencing this.
To paraphrase Douglas Adams, "Goodbye, and thanks for all the pollen."
#6 - your post has the - in this case, rather depressing - ring of truth. #14 - v well posted!
#3 Why so negative -- maybe the bees have escaped captivity & are partying in Ibeeza.
'A spokesman for the Executive added: "We would be more than happy to meet the Beekeepers' Association..."'
A tad worrying they haven't already, methinks.
Seem to many chemicals being sprayed around. Radio masts have been with us for decades
#6 - Tweedmouth - your comments are extremely interesting. I'm particularly interested in the information you give about the systemic insecticide IMIDACLOPRID - could you give me any links for information about this particular pesticide?
As you will see from my comments below the following article, we are like-minded about effects on human health:-
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=566602007#new
I take it that you know about the `Green` hustings meetings coming up? - http://www.everyonecan.org/fphustings.phphttp://www.scottishvotepods.com/2007/03/green_groups_ca.h...
Cracking contribution!
Sounds like a dastardly crime has bee-n committed. If they died off, where are all the bodies? If they've just gone somewhere else, why can't they be found?
"What The Bee Knows" PL Travers.
Or Bee-telgeuse VII.
Are we not talking of the 'Marie Celeste' here - who was the Mary one?
Ah well! I'll know not to put lots of dots in any comments from now on :-(
#1 i must admit I was surprised to see that global warming wasn't getting the blame for it. I suppose it would be difficult to blame both GW & mobile phones at once & they had to choose one of the pc whipping boys.
What about solar radiation?
#27 cos #23
27,
Because I didn't know that the dots would go all the way across the screen!
#6 Your comments seem to be worryingly to be probably true and explain the cause.
It seems that when nature is interfered with that the scientists or whoever forget that Mankind is a part of the ecosytem. We upset the ecosystem at our peril.
Have any of the botanical gardens like Kew Gardens come up with any explanation?
31,
You learn something new everyday..... oops!
Bees worldwide have heard of the possibility of SNP & Independence coming,and dont wish to face the consequences.Vote appropriately in May and they'll be back.
#5 and #6 bring up some rather interesting points.
There also needs to be research done on the effects from BlueTooth, and WiFi technologies that are ever increasing their range and popular use.
Arther Askey will be spinning in his grave.
#39 Jennifer: Old, long departed comedian. Sang a song about a busy busy bee. Just think the Paul Whitehouse character whose cathphrase is "where's me washboard".
#2 MARKINALPINE
Are you david Attenborough with a pseudonym???? Are you older than 5.........????
I SUGGEST THE INCREASE IN CELL PHONE ACTIVITY MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM OF BEE HIVE LOSES. MIGHT BE WORTH WHILE TO SEE IF AREAS OF THE WORLD WITH NO CELL PHONES ARE IMPACTED AS BAD AS AREAS OF HIGH CONCENTRATION OF CELL PHONES. ALSO, BEES MAY BE ABLE TO ADAPT TO CELL PHONE ACTIVITY SLOWLY, BUT WHEN MOVED TO HIGH CONCENTRATED CELL PHONE USE AREAS, THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ADAPT FAST ENOUGH. THIS IS AN AD HOC 'OUT OF THE BOX' SUGGESTION. NO BACK UP FOR THIS IDEA.
#42 Stewart Gable, you don't really think that do? #3 Theo's idea has about as much merit.
the disappearance has been attributed to a "vampire" mite which attaches itself to the bees and drains all the liquid out of it.
this was documented in 2005 - google search on disappearing bees.
the pesticide which used to control these mites is no longer effective, so until something new is found the bee colonies will continue to die off.
NO, they are not going to mysterious planets !
#23, and #31: Could you PLEASE delete your posts, since you two have managed to throw the entire forum out of format?
Thanks in advance.
#44 tomo577, surely not vampires....you must have your wires crossed, vampires sook (read drain) the blood from hapless victims, beez (except boo-beez) are choc fu o'honey...
American scientists now studying the Colony Collapse Disorder wrote in their first preliminary December 15, 2006, report that even though the neonicotinoids will not kill adult bees directly on flowers and plants. Recent research tested crops where seed was treated with imidacloprid. The chemical was present, by systemic uptake, in corn, sunflowers and rape pollen in levels high enough to pose a threat to honey bees. Additional research has found that imidacloprid impairs the memory and brain metabolism of bees, particularly the area of the brain that is used for making new memories. If bees are eating fresh or stored pollen contaminated with these chemicals at low levels, the pesticides might not cause mortality, but might impact the bees' ability to learn or make memories. If this is the case, young bees leaving the hives to make orientation flights might not be able to learn the location of the hive and might not be returning, causing the colonies to dwindle and eventually die. The thing about the Colony Collapse Disorder is that bees are leaving the colony and not coming back, which is highly unusual for a social insect to leave a queen and its brood or young behind. They are seemingly going out and can't find their way back home. Imidachloprid, when it is used to control termites, does exactly the same thing. One of the methods it uses to kill termites is that the termites feed on this material and then go out to feed and can't remember how to get home. And it also causes their immune systems to collapse, causing what would be normal organisms to become pathogenic in them (bees). http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_4557.cfm
It might help to get rid of GM foods.
It might help to get rid of windmills & low power lightbulbs.
No I haven't any evidence either but clearly that doesn't matter.
We have changed so many environmental variables in such a short period of time, with so little forethought, that if we experience a serious collapse of the ecological system I am willing to bet we wont be able to isolate precisely which straw it was that broke the camels back. Much less be able to remove said final straw from the camels back before the damage is done. What I find amazing is that we can see the water shortages coming, and we know the climate change is likely to affect crops, and now we are seeing other changes that are likely to impact food production, why isnt anyone talking about voluntary population reduction yet? (Using birth control, not violence) Are we really such numpties that we have to starve like animals do when they over populate their environments? No amount of energy efficient lightbulbs and hybrid cars are going to help us if we dont stop growing our population. Clearly THIS level of population is damaging the environment (for us, life will go on, have no fear of that) and it is doing so within a terrifying short period of time when one considers other mass extinctions. I just cant believe we are so stupid, collectively, that the issue isnt even on the table. In fact, governments around the world are trying to encourage the few groups of people who have somehow naturally reacted by lowering their birthrates to HAVE MORE BABIES. *sigh* Well, maybe after we go extinct intelligent life will be next.
Now that I am done with my rant about the over breeding of humans, I wonder if the long expected pole shift, or flip of the earths magnetic field could have anything to do with it. I read once that some scientist had discovered that bee dances give directions that use quantum fields as navigational points, rather than landmarks, as many people had expected. If that is the case, it could be some human caused electromagnetic interference, but if it is a global issue, perhaps it is a "natural" one.
Imidachloprid is used in turf farming, a major business here in southern New Jersey, USA. And sure enough, our honey supplier said his bees are disappearing in unexpected numbers.
Just why it should be this year, when imidachloprid has been around for awhile, is not clear.
So it is by no means conclusive, but can certainly be listed as suggestive and needing immediate research.
Two things must be done: 1) find out how long the memory-kiling effects of the poison last; 2) put a temporary stop to the use of the poison for something past that length of time. Surely there must be effective —cides in the turf business that have side-effects which are already well-known and tolerable — so that they can save the turf whil the Imidachloprid is removed for awhile. Then we can see if bees return or not in response to the removal of Imidachloprid.
I vote for bees well above turf anyday when it comes to heirarchical distinctions in nature.
As for other parts of the food chain around here: we, too, have fewer rats to keep the black snake on our land interested; we, too, have noted more mice. If bumblebees do most of the pollinating, then we have historically been in fine shape here in rural Cumberland County, but a loss of honey bees would clearly be an ecological loss.
As for reaching a tipping point in the world of electronic devices, it takes relatively little electrical charge to affect us humans; what must an iappropriate level be for bees?
Here we are told that the bee problem is severe, and the native Califonia brown bees are to be encouraged. Imagine my delight when I saw so many of these CAlifornia natives around my lavender bushes.
But the mail carrier complained that she is allergic to bees (strange choice of occupation - walking around the suburbs all day in an area famous for fruit trees) and I must get rid of them.
So far I haven't heard from the Postal Service about my pestiferous bees, but when I do, the question is what shall I do? I've never used pesticides. . . .
Should the problem continue, the state will win (they always do) and the bees on my property will be eliminated. One of the millions of ill-advised little decisions that have gotten us this far.
Eventually, our battle against nature may succeed, and we will discover just how much a part of it we were.
Dear #52The Great American Lawn is an ecological disaster in the making. From the pesticides and herbicides to the polluting lawn mowers and peace-destroying leaf blowers, nothing good can come from it. But there are still neighborhoods where having a lawn and maintaining it with the appropriate chemical poisons, is practically the LAW.
#53 Surely, if your mail carrier is allergic to something which occurs naturally in the environment, then no one can be blamed? The problem is surely hers, and if she can't do her job because of a medical problem, surely it's incumbent on her to change employment?
Or is logic non-operational in America?
I wouldn't give in - tell the Post Office that if they choose to employ someone who can't do the job because of a medical problem, then clearly THEY were negligent when they employed her, since they should have ascertained that she was able to carry out the duties; so the problem is THEIRS, not yours.
It would be like emplying a chef who was allergic to pots and pans!
Molly, dont worry about your bee's. My guess is that your postal person hasn't got a prayer of making you get rid of them. She should either get a different, (indoor) position or carry an atropine injector with her on her route. She is just trying to make you feel guilty for......having plants? Ridiculous.
And I did find an article both about the electromagnetic field and (at least on brief piece) about bees needing it to navigate. Below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3359555.stm
#55 wrote:"Or is logic non-operational in America?"
Yes I would say for some time it has been.
#56 - I hope you're right, but she did threaten to sic her supervisor on me. I have been waiting for a week now for the other shoe to drop and I haven't heard from the P.O. YET, but then, the insensate mills of bureaucracy grind slowly, so that doesn't mean that the carrier's complaint is not under consideration by someone, somewhere.
Some related articles:http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/11/26/millions_...http://www.physorg.com/news72635855.htmlhttp://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/16623837.htmhttp://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-02-11-honeybee-...http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/07/02/synthetic...
How serious is the issue? Albert Einstein said, "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe, then man would only have four years left to live."
Mollyfurie, well this would be a good time to petition the government to list the honeybee as an endangered species and thwart her. ;)
Seriously though, bees arent like pet dogs, they cannot expect you to control them. And envision postal workers with allergies to other things, grass and plant pollen dictating the landscaping of homes around the world. Not likely. The most I can see them doing is asking you if you could set up a mail drop box further from the plants that attract the most bees.
Another article on bees and quantum physics.
http://www.synchronizm.com/blog/index.php/2007/03/29/the-...
Mollyfurie...I assume your postal service is as efficient as mine...so the loss would be...Huge?...at any rate I figured # 55's question was rhetorical :-)...hey if Einstien was right, and the Maya were right, maybe algore should just go home and pay for his enormous energy use for the next four years and shut up.
I am allergic to many things that grow around here - olives and oaks for instance, but I treat it as my own personal problem and don't trouble my neighbors about it. For one thing, I LOVE olive and oak trees (and olives for that matter).
But in California, the state has often undertaken to spray us all with malathion and possibly other insecticides on occasion. ("Malathion is perfectly safe. Cover your fishponds, your car and your pool. Bring in the children's toys. And DON"T WORRY!) It stopped when a local city councilperson held hearings indicating that malathion attacks the immune system and may have caused at least one case of blindness. (Of course the state did not actually ADMIT this - the spraying just stopped suddenly).
Of course, all that was done to protect the state's fruit industry - so you'd think they'd protect the bees. Only, in this case, I would be dealing with the Federal government - farther away and more difficult.
If sanity prevails, she'll be given a desk job, of course. But I've learned not to count on the prevalence of sanity.
Buckwheat honey was $2.50 per 12oz, now it's $6.50!!
#32 Bees were disappearing in France at a fantastic rate - 50,000 entire colonies died in a single year in 1998-1999. Beekeeping is a major rural industry in France and the bee-farmers have their own laboratories to carry out independent research. when they realised that colony collapse was happening in areas where Imidacloprid had been introduced as a systemic neurotoxin applied to sunflowers, oilseed rape, maize etc. they marched on Paris. Result? Imidacloprid was banned in France in 2000 and has still - as far as I know - not been relicensed. However, here in the UK where the watchdogs are in bed with Bayer - we spray the stuff on 2.5 million hectares of crops a year.
It is not just bees that are dying. Butterflies, ladybirds, earthworms and a thousand other nectar feeding insects are disappearing. Farmers here in the Borders tell me that 30 years ago when you drove your car on a summers day, you had to clean the screen, the lights and the grille every day because of dead insects. Now, you hardly get any insect film on cars in farming districts. A mass extinction is underway. The big question is however, what happens to the Imidacloprid that is INSIDE the seeds and nectar and pollen of oilseed rape, sunflowers, maize, peas, beans etc? Does it end up in our cooking oil, margarine, cornflakes? What is it doing to children, pregnant women, embryos? It is a nerve poison and kills bees at 5 parts per BILLION.But when you make oil or margarine, you concentrate the contents of millions of rape seeds to make a tub of margarine.
Howdy from Phoenix.
Everyone tries to blame every thing on global warming. The comment on genetically altered crops probably hits closer to home than global warming.
I didn't have time to read all the comments (quite an encouraging response for something as unglamorous as BEES) but has anyone considered a connection between Genetically Modified Seeds, particularly the "Terminal" seed stocks of Monsanto? It might follow that a genetically barren pollen might interfere in some fashion with bees' body processes. Like Olestra (that genetically engineered "cooking" oil that improved the regularity of dieters); perhaps such alien pollen sent them all off to the LU in search of relief... a flux which might ultimately have proven fatal. The progress of my speculation turns on one point: Such an outcome seems in line with the type of reasoning which produced a terminal seed stock in the first instance. Indeed, if crops of the future are incapable of reproducing, of what use are bees?
Honey has always been a natural remedy for healing wounds. Honey is the only food that won't spoil.
#65 Rennie.If your theory on genetically modified corn is correct. Why has the decline also been found in the UK where genetically altered produce is not used?
I cant help but think that the answer might be right before our noses and ears. What has absolutely exploded in our culture the past couple years? Cell Phones! Even the pre school children are packing them so parents can keep in touch with them. Cell phones for games, cell phones for texting, cell phone for tunes. And lets be truthful, not all cell phones are static free nor clear channeled and they are virtually clogging the airways. Often times there are bleed overs from someone elses call into your call. I dont know if this is causing part of a problem for the bees, but somehow, the timing is about right with the increase in vanishings . Navigation is a tricky dance thing with bees . I am sure you can all remember the school movies that showed the bee dance to tell the hive where the flowers were. I wonder if perhaps they dont make it back to the hive to do the dance. Or if in winter, the air waves drove them out with misjudgement of times and seasons. It might be worth a look anyhow.
There is no firm evidence that the many magnetic field reversals that have taken place throughout our planet's history have coincided with or triggered extinctions. Reversals take hundreds if not thousands of years to complete, and because for any one type of animal that represents hundreds or thousands of generations, species have time to accommodate to the change. Moreover, even if the main dipole field were to collapse—an event that can last for up to 10,000 years during a reversal—residual fields 5 or 10 percent as strong as the main field would remain on the surface, and animals would be able to use those quite well for migration.http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/animals.html
I don't think genetically altered things have much to do with this because the problem began several years ago and was going on in places without crops. We are city beekeepers and our first hives were disappearing from the Los Altos Hills area hives. Still worth keeping in mind though.
As for global warming, well, I personally think it's ridiculous to focus on just one aspect of pollution. If survival is to be a goal, we need to look at all facets of the situation regardless of the difficulty that would present to our slothfull minds.
As for the mail carrier, look up the phone number of your "County Extension Office". Call them immediately and advise them of the incident. The folks in charge there will be able to give you competent advice based on the laws and statutes of your area and will probably be able to intervene directly with your postal office on your behalf. Don't wait for the problem to look for you, attack it!
One other item for thought, monoculture, the practice of planting and producing a single crop over acres and acres should be reconsidered. It is not a normal method of growth. This lack of balance gives rise to an over abundance of pests, both animal and botanical, which in turn gives rise to the use of chemicals and all that implies.
I keep bees in my Garden in Somerset and the hive is as strong as I've ever seen it. One big difference this Winter was the bees did not touch their stores IE. the were flowers to forage all through the Winter.This Summer is likely to have a bumper crop of honey.
#2Markinalpine#4 Rulesbutnotrulers Where I live...the native bumble bees, butterflys moths.. are very few.. or gone...so not is not just the domestic bees that are affected.Have not spoken to any bee keepers here yet..the snow is still melting off...too early for that#6 Tweedmouth. Right...but here there is not really that much insecticide used... the farmers DO spray the hell out of their fields with Roundup..that certainly kills earthworms..the fields are dead as a desert after a spraying.(WE NEVER use chemicals on our property) You are on track..it is a matter of poisoning the environment in generalThis in my opinion, is probably as much concern as climate change.
#63..Tweedmouth..sorry just read that post... you have it. But it might interest you to know it is affecting us here"in the back off beyond" (North of Prince George if you look on the map). Clean cars here as well in the summer.....so it must be pretty well world wide...Scary..
#70-NaNaBlue- I saw a similar program. Pretty much seems like climate changes all over. I'm not sure, but I recall something about the planets aligning in the year 2012, and they're not sure about what effect that will have. Out of curiosity, what odd bird happenings have you been seeing?
Well now... we are getting down to the bare esssentials. Mankind has trashed this world with all our wondrous methods,(e.g.: chemicals), and now get ready for a new theme. Call it "Thinning the Herd". Oh, what a triumph! Only now the herd is us.
Bees are important for pollination of crops rather than the production of honey. Clover seed had to be imported to this country every year until bees were imported from Europe. The north island bees were badly hit by the coming in of the varroa mite. Much damage to bees is done by the use of chemical sprays and man's bad farming practises.
I've been following this bee disappearance phenomenon from the outset, and the pesticide theory is awfully persuasive. The chemical companies don't much care what havoc any product unleashes if it doesn't affect their profit margins. US novelist Philip Wylie wrote a book titled End of the Dream, in which the human race finally destroys itself with its own technology. It wasn't well written, but it scared the devilment out of me. One other possibility comes to my mind, and that is HAARP. These antenna arrays may be able to affect natural magnetic lines of force enough to interfere with bee navigation. Trouble is, they ought to be able to interfere with additional similar things, and we've heard only about the bees. And even if they were able to disorient the bees, wouldn't they have to be powered up all the time? Please comment on HAARP if you have anything at all.
Has anyone considered what all that depleted urainium might be doing to us and our enviornment. This stuff is extremely deadly and will be around for say, 4 million more years with us now that they have unleashed it on the world and.........continue to do so. think a bee's got a chance?
Has anyone mapped the areas of these bee disappearances to see if there is a global pattern? Would be interesting to know. I Don't usually cut and paste from these comments but something in the back of my mind is niggling me about this article. Have to sleep on it.
It is caused by cell phones..the bees are unableto navigate back to their hives in areas withlarge cell phone use...thus dying andleaving hive to queen and worker bees....
Yeah, the first mention I heard of this was Fidel Castro's recent article on how raising grains for ethanol was going to monopolize arable land to feed US & European vehicles rather than people.
Molly she sounds like somebody who wants to throw her weight around & believes that being a government employee, at such an exalted role as postie, gives her an entitlement to.
Ask her to put her request in writing, signed & dated. People in bureaucracies hate to put their own names to things. When she refuses she has no case. In the unlikely event that she does so & proves able to write, send a copy to your congresscritter & frame the original.
On topic I strongly suspect these allegedly disappearing bees will turn out to be either a natural ecological fluctuation (nature is not static) or relatively easily solved by putting out more flowers or less pesticides or something similar.
Some people are never happy unless they are worrying.
employed by Our govt in the "threat assessment, resolution" world when these stories started popping upI was very interested. here in fla, for instance it seems some 75% of the hives are being found empty. I looked into the problem in Italy where it turned out to be blamed upon chinese wasps accidently imported, in some pottery if memory serves.passing this along I still get no viable answers from any of My former collegues.would be an ideal form of biological warfare though ( yes I know I spent a long time looking at the "black side" of everything, but seems a possibility worth ( and hopefully being very carefully) examined.
Just a thought
CBP
