What a heap of tosh, If any body involved in security any where male or female requires to see their faces for identity purposes then they should have to show them.

The last few times I've flown, I've been photographed while boarding. What's the point if some aren't being scanned the same way?

Get there veils up and they shouldn't complain.....all this cultural sensitivity rubbish is killing good old blighty!

If the law in this country demands that all people be identified properly at airports, that's the end of it.

The point is equality under the law - not intolerance or anything else.

If anyone doesn't accept that then they have the choice of not using airports.

(That does NOT mean that I am in favour of the biometric ID card)

Religion should not be an excuse for non-compliance with the law. Tolerance is extremely important, but everyone obeying the same common-sense laws is far more salient, regardless of religious "obligations".

All muslims should not be condemned for the acts of a minority. It is the dangerous minority that needs to be flushed out. On this count we can all act together, united communities aiming to achieve a common goal. Fanatics of any kind are very dangerous and damaging. We must all act collectively to flush out the dangerous few who affect the lives of many.

here we go again all the racist rats crawling out from under their rocks once more. Read the article again and find anything which says that muslims women do not do this when asked. Of course they do and always have done. So stop your moaning and go find another issue to crawl over.

The real problem with this stuff is that it is couched in such a manner that it entices the worst elements out of their holes. The real culprit is the Hootsmon, again stirring it up.

Looks like the use of that old chestnut called....Hegelian Law: Step one: CREATE A "PROBLEM": Create it or take one that does exist and build it up out of all proportion to its real importance;

Step Two: PUBLICIZE THE "PROBLEM": Make sure a story about this problem appears in the news media each and every day, in newspapers, news magazines, radio, and television. Hit it again and again in a "steady drumbeat" that soon has people who don't pay real attention to politics (which is the majority of them) clamoring for a "solution" to the problem;

Step Three: OFFER A "SOLUTION": A solution that takes away one or more of our rights and further undermines the constitutional protections we all are supposed to enjoy. One that involves higher taxes (to pay for this "solution," of course), and one we would not have allowed them to do without this previous conditioning of the public.
WORKS LIKE A "CHARM :)

When in Rome do as the Romans do!

310 These people are Romans! Your attitdute assumes that they are foreigners and exposes your racist intent.

9 - scottwebb

One of the (very) rare instances where we may slightly disagree. Your post is correct, of course, but it is an issue that requires a positive direction. IF, and I accept IF, it is true that someone passed through immigration, because someone hadn't the will to challenge and possibly offend, then the matter should be addressed. (or should that be undressed?) ;) You know I'm in no way racist or Islamaphobic, but there should be no discrimination in one way OR the other.

Utterly unbelievable that in this post 9/11 world of ours that security is still so lax and lackadaisical!!!!

Does it mean the veiled woman (presumably it was a woman) who boarded the same flight I did at Heathrow may not have had her identitity checked?!

That the authorities are only now thinking of checking veiled passengers's identities boggles the mind absolutely...

Comment@12. Bill, hi mate, i appreciate your comments, heres a wee 11 minute vid i found thats sums up where i think they're really going with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCLu83rppmA

You cant get any right thinking person to accept being implanted with an RFID tracking chip.........so how would you go about changing the minds of many ?
Heres another 6 minute vid on the subject http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=20375719657441773...

My Mother in law should wear the veil in the interests of public decency if nothing else.
Well, that's what Les Dawson told me in a dream last night.

Comment@16 Paul, nice one mate :)

Interesting that the eye scan can still be done whilst observing the wearing of the veil.Great ! Now we know that whoever it is under there its the same person as it says on this piece of paper! I wonder who it is?
We will never be 100% secure and even less so thanks to Blair and Bush.
They should be forced to remove their veil at customs.Its not asking too much and if they dont like it they are very handily placed for the next flight home!
If they wish to wear the veil during their stay here that is their choice,but identification should be exactly the same for everybody upon entering the country ,whatever that agreed procedure becomes.If you are not going to check everybody theres little point in checking anybody or anything.Even then it will only reduce the opportunities afforded to the would be here for dubious reasons.There is no such animal as 100% security,only attempts at going close.The closer the better and it will still not be adequate.You cannot be everywhere checking everything,but you can try!
16 You are a brave man! What kind of flowers do you like?

#7 Faye: You are absolutely correct. Fanatics of any kind are dangerous. However, it just so happens that the majority of the fanatics are muslim.

A muslim scholar was quoted as saying " Not all terrorists are muslim, but of all the terrorists, most are muslim"

This whole topic is not an attack on a the muslim faith. If any of us are honest with ourselves we will need to declare that the muslim faith is a peaceful and respectful faith. However,their faith suffers from the most radical and extreme view points known to man and unfortunately it has got to the point in which their entire faith is now under scrutiny.

If the British law dictates that no veils can be worn in airports then NO VEILS it is. End of story,no arguements.

Just as it is in the muslim world. NO MINI SKIRTS end of story!

What is the point in getting a picture done for a passport if it's going to be hidden by a veil? This whole thing is just ridiculous. If people want to travel about, then they need to follow the procedures set forth. If these groups don't like it, then maybe they should find another place to live, in a non-pluralistic society that holds to their types of values.

What a dishonest story! From the Westminster editor, too!

Nowhere is there any statement or evidence that veil-wearing women have objected to lifting their veils to be identified. Nowhere. It isn't an issue in real life. The Scotland on Sunday has made up this issue.

Having said that, thre paper has unveiled a new idiot - the unidentified Union spokesperson who, the story claims, thinks it would "impose intolerable demands on their members, particularly female officers".

If someone from a Union reallly said this then they're saying it would be intolerable for a woman to look upon another woman's face in the line of her job. I for one wish the Scotland on Sunday had named and shamed this Unon spokesperson.

But possibly he or she is a made up person. Like this whole story.

I have lived and worked in the Middle East and been involved in designing Airport Security and Access Control. The one and only issue here is that one or more immigration officials did not comply with the statutory requirements at the approprite point in the exit procedure. All points of entry/exit are or should be suitably equipped and staffed to comply. There is not and never has been any issue of refusal to be identified by any female Muslim.

As Leon from Hong Kong so correctly highlighted in post 8:

Out come the racist rats yet again!!!

As for the justification for the article!!??

Is there an immigration service salary review due soon by any chance?

This is turning into a security issue!

Bottom line, NO VEILS! Thats the way it should be.

Britain needs to get as tough as the muslim states do. The muslim authorities say, no mini skirts(in otherwords, your culture is not welcome here) Lets do the same

Maybe I can be regarded as a little sheltered living up here but my breath has been taken away by the realization that people are able to pass through passport control with their faces covered.

We have this massive billion dollar American led machine that has swung into action in the so-called name of security with CIA scrutiny, phone/internet tapping, changing the entire monetary transfer rules worldwide, bombing the crap out of anything and anybody that looks vaguely unusual with the poodle Tony Blair in it's pocket with his under-funded lego forces and that big expensive sinister looking MI5 building and now we discover people are wandering through checkpoints without their faces being checked against the oh-so strict protocol of their pictures!

Once again I am stunned by this pathetic excuse of a nation that has the audacity to call itself a United Kingdom. Our politicians are so busy falling over themselves to please the politically correct brigade that they have now taken leave of their senses.

Unless theres a change of government soon I'm off, probably get through control with my face painted with the saltire and my tam o' shanter bonnet and red wig no problem.

Anything for an argument # 21 The whole trust of the article is the failure (be it because of lack of manpower etc.) of the authorities to check, just as the article does not say it is the veil wearers fault nor does it blame them, so wake up and whine about something else, and my understanding about the union spokesperson was to do with the logistics of checking these people.

And LEON from Hong Kong, do you wake up in the morning hoping to find or read something that offends your sensitivities e.g. racism. It must be living in a 3rd world state like Hong Kong - Come back to the real world here in Britain, that is of course if your British.

# 24, Yeah your right, check out the picture with the article, are those eyes sexy or what??

Media 1!

A little suspicion of red-necker Bruderbond policy here? Look for a 'truth trial' and get it all out before it really eats you up!

Another thing - the story says that it was revealed that Mustaf Jama flew from Heathrow to Somalia using his sister's passport. No it wasn't. There is no solid evidence other than speculation by the media that this actually happened.

So its now deemed racist to expect not to be blown out of the sky or have you're plane rammed into the nearest western building.
The real racists are the people that let the Muslim faith dictate what can and can't be done in Britain, which last time I checked is a non Islamic state (so far anyway) and are scared to speak out for fear of 'offending' anyone.
Its time we got a real grip of this problem of hiding behind religious faith.
Yes we all agree that it is a small minority of Muslims that are causing the terror and our dislike of that particular faith but at the same time its the silence of the majority of Muslims at speaking out against them or identifying them that bothers me.
I notice many of them are not too keen on living in real Muslim countries if they are that badly offended by the laws and culture of Britain.

#30 Political exile, you pretend to have an understanding of the political spectrum of this nation, but in truth you do not. Whilst I was growing up in Scotland, this nation and its systems were being funded and supported by Britian and the USA. Its all politics and its never very nice.

You will try your best to place a racial slur on anything you cannot understand, such is the intellectual agony you suffer from.

The VEIL may be a Muslim custom, but it is not a traditional British custom.

As I said earlier, the mini skirt is not tolerated in the muslim world and the west respects that. Therefore,a ban of the veil in Britian must be met with the same respect by muslims. Its called give and take, either you understand it or you dont.

Islam is not a race, it is a religion.
It is not a requirement for muslim women to wear a veil.
It is neither racists nor anti Islamic to ask a woman who is wearing a veil if the laws rules or regulations require full facial recognition.
This should not only happen at airports but every where that it is required banks, shopping malls or anywhere else.

So if an Islamic woman refuses to remove said item and promises to punch a security guard ... is that a veiled threat??

#8 Leon from Hong Kong is way off the mark. Why is any poster who agrees with these sensible security measures called by him a "racist rat" and crawling out of their "holes". Is this a case on his part of reverse racism and has he been a target of racial profiling or other acts that impugn his dignity?

Here in Canada we have Muslim women who try to get a driver's license with the veil on, try to get a bus pass with the veil on, and officially protest if their application for a Canadian passport requires the photograph to show the face UNVEILED.

Is this too much to ask of these women who enjoy and benefit from the high standard of living here in Canada and many times will be the highest standard of existence they will experience in their lifetimes?

There is a concept that it is a "privilege" to have Canadian citizenship and our passports are the most coveted in the world for counterfeiters, fraudsters, and other assorted lawbreakers.

One can only hope that it is a minority of these veiled women who take exception to unveiling but they must follow the rules of law of their adoptive country - namely Canada. If they cannot abide by OUR laws perhaps they should seek citizenship elsewhere.

Sharia courts have been denied in Ontario because it would make a two-tiered system of law enforcement. Also, Jewish law courts have also been denied so it is not a case of singling out Muslims. To have different sets of laws for the same crimes invites confusion and judicial discord.

#36. Cheers but the point is, and I make it forcefully, is that the issue of Islam and its culture is being used by racists to hide behind. No, not everyone who posts on this issue is racist but it is being used as a mean as furthering racist ideals.

What is required is an honest open debate, not phobias hiding behind the scaremongering of those in power who see it in their interest to attck Islam.

Again I ask the question; where does it say in the article that Moslem women are refusing to unveil for security reasons?

#25 is a perfect example of Islamophobia. More than likely a racist.
#27 I aint no Brit, I am a Scot but an internationalist.

So when I attck racists here in these posting I am trying to call them out. Read the postings they are here. OK

About time too.This is Great Britain and the citizens of this country do not go about like some kind of latter day bandits.They have to toe the line.Covering up is not on.Your face must be visible for security reasons.

#35 Dragoncheese - I don't know if that would be a veiled threat, but I do know that if a woman wore two or three veils, one on top of another, that would certainly be a veil of tiers.

# Security? What difference does it make when walking through Embra and your mugged by somebody without a mask.

Get real and tells us how you really feel, about blacks, gays and any other minority hate group you belong to.

It seems a very popular mistake, but the veil is not an islamic issue. It is a cultural one. There is no mention of a veil or covering of the face anywhere in the Koran.
The veil was created by men who wanted to control their women, believing that if other men saw their woman's face, then they would automatically rape her as men are incapable of controlling themselves. The veil has now be extended to refusing to educate women, banning them from leaving the home etc. All methods to control women and keep them 'in their place.'
Dont blame Islam for these things, blame middle eastern culture.

This country was safe before people whose women wore curtains to hide their faces think they took over.

A man was supposed to have got off the Titanic dressed as a women, maybe Lord Lucan left the UK in similar circumstances.

#35 ... amusing ... #11 ... what are you on dude !?

Lets make it simple and outlaw all forms of public religious observation ... then everyone is the same and what they do behind closed doors is their business. So long as we find a way to stop the oppression of women by the lunatics in these sects.

#41 ... the veil has become an islamic issue, its called trial by public perception and lets face it ... perception is everything.

To simplify things, why don't we make it compulsory for all ugly women (and men!?) to wear the veil, that way it would be a British societal thing and not simply restricted to the uglier islamic women who feel the need to cover up in public ...

#37 ... so how did you get to Hong Kong on a Scottish passport when there are none ... guess you must be British at heart - just like the rest of us Brit's ... I believe that the Gaelic sounds in English like "poke ma hone" dude !!!

But then, you're more than likely a ned from the Central belt with none of the Gael left in you ...

Leon - Hong Kong: it is simply not true to say that women have refused to remove their veils. Just because there is no specific reference in this article does not mean refusal does not happen - have you not been keeping in touch with some of the rediculous court cases over here recently?

Several posters have already covered the point you are obviously missing - if a person is not prepared to live by the law, then they should go where they are happy with the law. Simple.

I bet you don't break the law in Hong Kong! As someone who has lived in Libya, where women cannot safely walk outside in Westerm Dress, and where Italian women were stoned on the streets for BEING ITALIAN I take great exception to the expectation that we will alter our culture to an extent that compromises national security

- and by the way Leon, comparing a terrorist attack to a mugging is purile.

Live by our rules or get oot !!!
wouldnae like to see yir chances walking doon Baghdad high street in full scottish regalia wi kilt an bagpipes...ye'd be decapitatet at dawn.
and to all those posters wi nuhing better ti dae on ch eve but sit for oors scouring thru this ...cya later

#41 I agree.

The Koran has verses to make the Muslim woman an inferior human being and are used by the men to control women.

Off course wearing the face-veil should be banned in all public places as this is not part of a Muslim woman's Islamic dress code and those Muslim women who wear the veil have very little choice do as you are told or else in that they must be obedient to their husbands or be admonished (verbally abused), banished from the bed (psychologically abused) and beaten (physically abused) Koran 4:34.

One thing I have'nt read so far is any comment by any Muslim woman as to why she must wear the face-veil ?

Why all the hazzle,they don't take them off they don't get on the plane,they don't take them off they don't get money from the bank.And as for them having a special section to go to NO WAY.

#46. the whole point of this piece is to continue with the moslem bairting which goes on in the press throughout the West.

I have lived and worked in 6 countries in my time and I have never ben abused, spat at or discriminated against becasue of my nationality, creed or colour.

# 47 with people like you the above cannot and could never be said the same about Scotland.

oops! Forgot to mention 4 of those countries could be desribed as Moslem!!

Why the emotive headline "Forced to lift veil"?

Any Muslim woman wearing the niqab will understand that a Customs officer will want to compare her passport photo with her actual face and lift her veil, when (rather, one hopes, than if) asked. If she feels worried about exposing her face in public, then surely a female customers official can take her into a side room and check her face.

At this time of heightened security, all travellers should be treated equally.

#50 - it's not "muslem-baiting" - simply an attempt to ensure that our laws are complied with.

I am glad you have had good experiences in the countries that you have lived and worked in, but please be aware that you are not the only person to have lived and worked outside Scotland, and they have experiences too!

I have never lived in a country more intolerant of "foriegners" than Libya - have you lived and worked there?

Take the veil off and you are permitted to board the plane, dont take them off and you stay where you are.

Seems fair!

I would be uneasy if anyone close to me in any public transport were wearing any garment over hs/her face. The way we communicate includes by vision. With strangers, vision is probably the main way of communication.

If anyone living in Britain wants to hide their identity, there must be some reason of subterfuge. The subterfuge of religion is at least as bad as any which so-called 'hoodies' practice, especially in the current climate.

Maybe the Bishop of Southwark should have worn a veil?.... or is it already curtains for him?
Funny how something as simple as an article of clothing to keep the sand out of your nose could take on this significance! What item of clothing will next be elevated to such a position?
In the meantime, I prefer Linda's Smith's great quote: 'Me? religious?... No, not really.... I can get on with most people!'

>>>25. The muslim authorities say, no mini skirts(in otherwords, your culture is not welcome here) Lets do the same

This is so true, and Leon, you need to pay attention to this as it is NOT racist....I am an American living in Scotland...I've had to "conform" to the Scottish way and not bring my American upbringing into my life over here. It's JUST manners and respecting the country in which you are living, visiting, or working.
I've been to Maldives, total Islamic country, and when visiting the capital, they ask that no short skirts, no tanks, no bare shoulders, etc...be shown as a MATTER OF RESPECT to their religion AND THEIR COUNTRY. When I went to the capital, I wore trousers (albit so blooming hot over there) and I covered my shoulders. There were many who did not and I felt ashamed and embarassed for them.
When visiting Egypt, which is Islamic and Christian, they still ask the same...no bare shoulders, no knees showing, etc...I was shocked at how many women didn't abide by this and then were disgusted at the men ogling them.
When you're in a different country than your own, you abide by their rules, laws, religious rules and laws, you are in their country. When you LIVE in that country...you should still abide by the laws and rules of that country. If you're not happy with that, then move. I did.
No, it's not saying that women will not do that IF ASKED, but why should they ask? It should be when you are walking up there and handing your passport, you should have your veil lifted RIGHT AWAY and no one should have to ask.
It's just like when I carry my CPAP on board, I advise BEFORE HAND what it is, etc...that way no one is trying to figure it out and calling everyone around to see the scan....I'm not holding anyone up and no one is leary of me boarding.
And, it's just not the Muslim women...what if a Bride got on board with her kit on....someone would tell her to lift her veil to see her face.

I am amused by the immigration department comment: "But officers usually wave passengers through because they do not have the time to check everyone." How many veiled passengers pass through that there is no time?

Nothing ,absolutly nothing, should be put above the security and safety of the population of this country no matter what your views are .
The Niqab is just a political statement in this country,and a means to control women in Arab states and has nothing to do with religion.
But that aside , how can a deaf person understand what anyone says if they cover their faces ? Absolutly impossible from them to do. This point was brought out to me by one deaf lady that I know locally. This is a point that I had never thought about untill recently ,so who`s rights are being infringed now ? answer me that you politically correct morons.

Lets all laugh at Leon, na na na na!

#53 I have always thought what it would be like to be black in Scotland or how would I feel walking down a street if I was Moslem. Well here in Hong Kong I look different and don't even notice my difference cause nobody else cares.

Pity the same cannot be said about Scotland. I don't know how it feels to be living in a country, that maybe i was born in, and to be slandered in the press and baited by distorted truths like this article.

It doesn't matter what is said in your small minded press but the fact that you genralise in #46 is itslef the same as being abused in the street cause yiour attitude supports the continuation of Islamophobia.

If anybody refuses to identify themselves, (remove the veil) then they wont go anywhere. Don't fall for the lies. thetruth is that islamophobia like racism gives you a bogey man to divert you from the the real problems.

About time too. I have on various occasions, when going abroad to USA, had my finger print taken and my iris scanned. If this what has to be done to protect the public in flight or at airports, then so be it. I did not feel I was being discriminated against just accepted it was for My own and public safety. I think I would have objected if the next person was allowed to pass with a veil covering their faces.

I am amused by the immigration department comment: "But officers usually wave passengers through because they do not have the time to check everyone." How many veiled passengers pass through every day that makes 'time' an issue? Taking responsibility for your charge is the issue here.

# 47 Your just nitpicking. respect goes both ways. Just ask them to go into a booth like you do with woman who are being searched.

And what the hell do you not do in Scotland that you would do in the Staes? You are taking nonesene nad remind me of the insipid gutless racism I encountered everywhere I went in the statesd.

STOP PUSSY FOOTING ABOUT. ALL THIS VEIL NONSENSE!!!
IF ITS FOR SECURITY THEY MUST SHOW THEIR FACES.
WHY ON EARTH ARE WE PANDERING TO THESE
MUSLIMS.
YOU DOP IT OUR WAY WHEN IN THE UK
IF NOT OFF YOU GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM
SIMPLE IS'NT IT.

#61 - I think you are making too many assumptions - you do not live in Edinburgh so how come you are so sure that the indigenous population is racist against "blacks and moslems" - your words not mine!?

Anyway, Hong Kong was mostly full of Aussie and Brits last time I was there! And the Chinese of course, but then it's their country!

# 62 read the article again. Nobody is complaining it is just sensationalist nonesense from Scotsman publications and your faling for it.

#65. Read the blody article!!! Nobody is saying NO!!!! Its is just bolstering the presses Islamophobic agenda. Maybe your islamphobe and don't care and just want to have a go like most of the postings here.

It's not only veils that are a problem. The large black tent that these women wear as their 'cultural right' would make the concealment of a bomb easy. Richard Reed the shoebomber had about 4 ozs of explosive in his shoes. How much plastique could a woman - or man - wearing a whole body black tent be able to smuggle onboard an aircraft.

We should follow the French model; complete separation of Religion and state; no wearing of religious items in schools or state offices - that includes crosses, turbans, Islamic dress, the lot.

Entire areas of British cities like London, Leicester, Birmingham, Bradford, Leeds are now in effect Islamic cultural enclaves where a British person feels he is in an alien land. That is the intention of the Islamist agenda - cultural and visual supremacy to start with; political supremacy in another generation by simply outbreeding the western liberals. The name 'Mohammed' beat the name 'George' into 12th most common name for babies this year - as reported in the press yesterday. Wake up. Its happening. The invasion is massive and not a shot has been fired in our defence.

>>>50. Leon, Hong Kong / 11:00am 24 Dec 2006
I have lived and worked in 6 countries in my time and I have never ben abused, spat at or discriminated against becasue of my nationality, creed or colour.

I'm so glad this has never happened to you. As said earlier, I am American living in Scotland. In both Scotland and England, I have been spat upon, hit, battered by 4 youth BOYS (I am a 44 year old WOMAN), I've been discriminated against in my job, in the middle of the street a man heard my accent and immediately yelled (7 days after 9.11) "YOU, you F** American, YOU should have been in that bombing, get out of our country and back to your own". I've sat on busses in England and Scotland and heard how bad American's are and how people wish we'd go back to our own country as I "appear" British, until you hear me speak....they would never sit and continue bashing "Paki's", I would HOPE, if one got on the bus.
I'm glad none of this has ever happened to you...it's a horrible feeling and it is extremely difficult to have this type of experience when I CHOSE to come to this country...And, I'm very proud to say that I am American by birth, but Scottish by CHOICE.

Media 1

Your clothes fetish is shining through again - at least three times you've mentioned mini skirts. A couple of weeks ago it was school uniforms.

A bit sad, but whatever turns you on I suppose.

Mental note: Never buy SA wine again.

LEON FROM HONG KONG
I CAN READ YOU CANT SPELL.
I REFUSE TO MOVE ON THIS ONE
READ MY COMMENT.
DO IT OUR WAY OR NOT AT ALL
THERE WILL BE A BACKLASH OVER ALL THIS MUSLIM RIGHTS NONSENSE
JUST YOU WAIT AND SEE.

Desperate: Can't find your comment. Don't normally discuss anything with the BNP anyway so better to just ignore you. Stop shouting ya midden.

It is the job of all imigration officers to verify the identity of a passport holder entering ANY country, if they cannot see the persons face this essential part of entry qualification cannot be carried out, therefore the person should be refused entry.
This should also be enforced on exit also, and every body would soon get the message. they would have to accept it or not visit.

LEON...your views are in the minority, not because we are bigoted but because it makes sense that they should take of their veils...hell, i take off my shoes and belt, what's the bloody difference.. Cannot read any more of some of these purile rantings......i am rushing off to a middle eastern state to open the latest Church of Scotland...anyone like to join me to see how far we get through 'LAND OF OUR BIRTH' before we are petrol bombed......
then we'll see who is tolerant to others.

Just as a little aside to all this.... here's a wee tale that happened in Aberdeen a few weeks ago.
There's a mosque in Aberdeen not far from where The Army Cadet and TA training building is. One night some young lads who were cadets walking home were passing the mosque and were verbally abused and physically threatened by Asian youths when they passed the mosque. What was the answer and solution to this. The Army Cadets have been told not to pass the mosque wearing their army fatigues...... if this is not a cop out and a one sided capitulation to Muslim then what is.
It would be interesting to see the outcry if this had been the other way around.
Anyway just goes to show that we are all treated fairly in the UK these days.