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Religion and homosexuality have much in common, in that those practicing both seem overwilling to try to ram it down your throat.
I am by no means homophobic, and if a friend became homosexual I would not turn my back on him, however if they turned to religion the outcome would differ.
What is tolerated currently by most most mainstream religions is fairly obvious, but at the periphery there can be little doubt that belief is being fudged at the rim of current accepted practice.
Its also worth mentioning the religious hypocrisy in America last week, where it became apparent some religions leaders were secretly playing quietly on rusty trombones, while claiming to sing from the standard hymn book.
i am not a particularly religious person but is this guy hoping to achieve anything with this dumb statement. i do wish homosexuals and lesbians would stop ramming their sexual orientation down everyone elses throats while it may not be something to be ashmed of it sure is not something to be proud of either, a semi decent singer but i wouldnt spend my money on his records he is not that good
id agree with elton to a certain point The catholic church itself Preached against it While at the same time It was ok for catholic preists to touch up little boys etc.But i dont think the Gay community do themselves any favours ,Putting out the Wrong impression that all Gay people are CAMP like elton etc.And Orginised gay pride marches Dont help either ,Im gay myself,
Try looking at it from the other side - gay people have hetero sex, sexuality, lifestyle, 'rammed down their throats' at every turn.
What can be understood from what he said is that many, many people use religious beliefs as a justification for hatred and oppression of gay people, and are allowed to get away with it.
Substitute 'black people' or 'women' for 'gay people' in the sentence - get it now?
I don't particularly care for ANY religion and would love to have it all gone. Religions were created to bond people into "god-fearing" nations in our early history. There's so much detritus accrued over the centuries that it is seen as "cultural" and "traditional". If thay can't change and adapt to modern times, the they have have outlived their usefulness. I'm not gay, but I firmly believe in live and let live. This newspaper wants a slapping for allowing homophobic comments to slip through however. There seems to be too much anti-gay feeling amongst the readers.
4 Some of that was ok ,But Being gay I would not say i was Bombarded with hetero ,I dont see orginised hetero marches,The catholic church is entitled to say what it thinks ,Its wrong what they say But they are entitled to say it,if the sheep who follow it want to believe it ,Thats up to them.They want to have a close look at themselves .And people who are hetero have kids and homophobic .You DONT know what your bringing up!
Personally, I couldn't care less what a person's sexual orientation is. And I don't want to know the gory details either. I find it distasteful to see people out in public sticking their tongues down each other's throats, irrespective of what sex they are.
I never thought i'd see the day when i'd agree with the debauched, self-centred and arrogant Elton John. He is right though in his observations of religion. Both the Bible and the Koran are full of hate against women, gays, children (circumcision in the Bible) and people who don't subsribe to THEIR god. Stop faith teaching in schools. Teach moralty by all means but leave out all the predjudice that comes with bibles.http://radgedug.blogspot.com/
No4 good point....suppose its daft to comment about Eltons latest remark, however if we could wave the magic wand,no Religion, spouting "their" one is the true one,all others are Infidals & need be-heading,no Catholic/Christian telling folk condoms are a great Sin,no daft Orthodox Jew,screaming about the Gays,no locking up Gays in Muslim Countries, & far worse....no where is that Magic Wand...
"The world is near escalating to World War Three and where are the leaders of each religion?
The religious leaders stand on all sides the religious leaders stand behind another fight in gods name leading the blind against the blind.
(A variation on the words of the Harvey Andrews song Soldier)
I agree with Elton John: Never in my life did I think that would be possible.
He is right, but he could have taken further than just sexuality.
Religion breeds hatred full stop.
Religion is the excuse for inter human hatred. Our species would find another reason/excuse to create coflict - hair colour skin colour even height - anything. Take away religion and humanity would rise to a better level ? Nonsense.
As above, total nonsense. Christianity does not turn its back on anyone. While the Bible forbids homosexual practices and bestiality, it neither suggests nor condones any form of discrimination against anyne. Christ gave his life for all.
Ive never believed in Any of it,Its Only recently i Nursed my own mum up until her Death ,And anyone whos ever done this will know what im talking about.But i had religious folks come to my door ,Telling me that Homosexuals are going to hell etc etc etc,Im gay ,myself ,Strange world .
Christ gave his life for all??? Are you attempting to sound stupid on purpose?
Christ was an enemy of the church. His devine status gave him power beyond that of the church. The church could not afford to have the masses follow a so called prophet of divinity as that would destroy their power..So when the Jesus fellow died, the church scribes concocted a genius plan to return to his father in the sky with the promise to return one day. That way no matter who arrives in the future, they will never be accepted.
Clever eh?
yep jesus Died for his own sins!
Lack of tolerance for individual's right to worship as they choose will not increase tolerance for gay rights.
I am Christian and not ashamed of it. I don't that homosexuality of right, does that make me a homophobe? According to the PC people I am but really not. I don't bash them or even brother with them. To me they will answer for their sins to Jesus not me. Do I judge them, I guess I have an opinon but it stays with me. What I don't like is being told that I have to accept it and if I don't I am a homophobe and racist. I must take diversity trainging. I don't like it, I will not accept it. It is wrong, imoral, and dangerous like the sudden acceptance of homosexuality and AIDS. If they are so proud of their choice why is homosexual such a bad word and they hide behind the word gay?
MS - so the bible dosen't state that childbirth is dirty? That women are 'dirty' during their monthly 'uncleanliness'? That male children are dirty at birth for 1 week, 2 weeks for a female? And that male children should have their foreskins sliced off? (God almost killed Moses for refusing to do this, according to the 'good' book!).
Its true that politics can also inspire hate, but politics can be reasoned with and challenged on a logical basis (i.e. - homosexuality is part of nature, or blacks aren't 'inferior'). Religion cannot be proved, therefore any person can use it and twist it or 'interpret' it to their own means. Sure, there are good people involved in religion, but they'd probably be good people anyway, without an ancient book to 'teach' them.
I am a Christian and I don't hate gays. My family are Christian and they don't hate gays. Christianity does not promote the hatred of gays. Sir Elton you are simply wrong, you know nothing about my religion. In fact you probably don't know anything about any religion. Your opinion is welcome but it should be informed and supported. Show me where the Church teaches us to hate gays.
Can you prove all tha Aoda? Homosexuality is part of nature, even in animals. Either God created it or he didn't or else there is no god and it IS just part of nature. Im hetero and don't see the word 'homosexual' as bad in any way. And other peoples lives are their own business, even worship. You have that right, just don't force your own set of PC ideals on the rest of us. Especially children.
Jesus died for his own sins, not mine.
radge dug, you're reading the bible like a fundamentalist. When else would you read something written perhaps 2500 years earlier, at face value, without taking into account the time and culture. You are being very unfair.
radge dug, why do you think that Jesus had sin? How do you know that he did not die for your sins? Aoda expressed a belief. It was proposed not forced.
What do you mean homosexuality is part of nature? Is cancer part of nature? Is paedophilia part of nature? Is AIDS part of nature? Can God create homosexuality?
Can those calling for religion to be banned, explain exactly how this can be achieved. Soviet Russia and Communist China didn't manage.
#4 Maestra, it is true society is over-sexed but as the saying goes, "two wrongs don't make a right." Sir Elton is entitiled to his opinion, but it is illogical and unreasonable.
God of the old testament is perhaps the single biggest homophobic,racist,genocidal,murderous monster in all of fiction.
Human sacrifice, first born egyptian massacre and a secere case of bias for his chosen desert tribe...
Its nothing more than a bronzed aged political propaganda document. To see it as anything else is blindfolded fear
Rage #21. Want me to prove what? If you mean the Holy Bible, the best way to prove it is to try and disprove it. I live in the forest of Pennsylvania and take many walkes in my yard with my dog. My yard is over 90% woods. I walk it in all seasons and my dog being Beagle is a hunter. This gives a lot of time to observe nature in all seasons. The more I look the more I see and the more that I know that there is a God. I blelieve that Jesus Christ died for our sins. You said Jesus died for his sins, what sins did He do? I can remember whenj "accepting" homosexuals started and it was said that even birds have homosexual tendencies. I have and do observe animals and I say now as I did then that any statement like that is just bull. Same sex animals do not socilaize. I have seen it in dogs, cattle, deer and other animals. What I have observed in my lifetime is the eroding of the family, religion, tolerance and more dangerous diseases, crime, and hate. I see everyday political parties, and people being tolerant only as long as you agree with them. We didn't have that when religion, especially the Christian religon wasn't prosecuted. I grew up in a typical mill town. Many of my neighbors were from Eastern Europe and Russia. We had Roman, Eastern Orthodox and Russian Catholics. There were Methodist, Presbyterians and yes aetheist. There were immigrants, first and second generation and some that were citizens in this country for many a year. Yes, we joked with each other but we always showed respect for the others believes and customs. In face as far a culter goes they were all blended together to make one culture and that culture is American. Times change and I have seen the erosion of family, religion, culture and the increase of crime and hate. I don't hate anyone. I may not agree with everything I see, hear or read but since the government took over raising our children, telling us what we must like or not like, what we have to tolor
.....A........S..U..M..M..A..R..Y.......
Dear homosexuals: dont criticise the presence of heterosexual behaviour, as without it few of us would be here.
Dear religious people: sadly your cults do have a reputation of discriminating against homosexuals, but we know you all dont, as the percentage of religious homosexuals probably equals the secular figure. Religion is the opiate of the masses, but many are too stoned to see the trees for the forest.
Its also worth mentioning your various causes have been hijacked for centuries, and if you value its true goals, you could serve these better keeping quiet about your beliefs as it would drain the fuel from the bandwagon despots frequently jump upon.
I guess thats me offended everyone now.
Oh Elton.....
Gissa song Reg!
Organised religion and the absurd belief in this divine creator is a total and utter blasphemy.
This planet and the universe around us was perhaps created by a higher energy, but it was never created by the old testament monster that we are taught to worship or face an after life in hell. Cmon, to believe in something so absurd is a travesty of mind. We have been given wonderful minds, yet alot of us do nothing with them other than live in fear of some barbaric heathen in the old testament.
The church is all powerful, but what would there power be if a divine prophet made his or her way to Earth?
They would be rendered uselss, just as they were when Jesus professed to be the child of God. The church must have hated Jesus, here was this fraudster pretending to be all powerful, he was single handidly ruining their power. So when it came to scribing his part in the bible, the high priests returned Jesus to his father in the sky with a promise to return one day..Ingenious,in one stroke of the pen they maintain their power for eternity, because no matter who arrives, they will never be accepted as the messiah, as he is so called..
Theres a Lot worse out there than gay people ,paedos within the catholic church , Is that part of Nature? its a PERFECT hiding place i guess.Glass houses and all that.Oh and i will repeat it if there was a jesus ,he died for his OWN sins NOT mine ,One in 4 men are gay ,Have you got a big family?Is your congregation large ?
In God we Trust Inc.
Eric, I thought it was 1 in 10 men who were gay? I'm not gay myself but good luck to you!
One in 4 in USA
Eric, Yes Jesus existed, and you can take that from mean atheist, whos happens to be God, so I should know.Their is sufficient documentation from the period to prove the fact that one called Jesus walked amoung usaprox. 2000 years ago. He was a Jew, he was a Rabbi.and, he was crucified, that is all we can say for sure.The dabate ever since has been exactly who and what he was.If you can believe that he was born of a virgin, he died on the cross, arose from the dead, and ascended to heaven the you can believe anything, and will have to believe that when I say I am Godyou have to accept that because you can't disprove it, and I don't have to prove a thing.The holy books were all written by men not deityand they were written some time after the events they describe by litterate men to contol the vastly many more illiterate masses for their own purposes.
Eric I've just worked that out and by your sums that would mean there are 37.5 million homosexual men (or boys growing up to be) in the USA. (it was pretty basic calculation - 300m divided by 2 divided by 4)
Really?
yes History has been twisted and made up as we go along hasnt it ,But as for religion .Its just a company making Lots of money out of a dream ,I do feel sorry for everyone who has bought into it ,But hey Good luck to them No harm wished upon them.
35 yes thats what they say the real figures are .Not the ones we are officially fed,
I understand that the prevalence of homosexuality is between 2% and 10%. Unsurprisingly, homosexuals tend to prefer the 10% figure.
37 Who is this "they"?
Ever feel your being Ripped off !End
The great debate on life the universe and everyting has been temporarily suspended because us mere mortlas want our tea.
Jesus preached unconditional love, universal brotherhood and forgiveness. If everyone followed that the world would be a better place. Elton, there seems to be a lot of hate and anger in you--why not enjoy your life and be happy in the success you have achieved and leave those who wish to nourish the spiritual part of them in peace. Here's a quote for you: "There is a divine way that shapes our ends, rough hew them as we may."
That is one of the religious statements which robs humanity of self determination. If all is pre ordained by deity, ther is no point in this or any other discussion.what we are is what we are what will happen will happen anyway. So what are we all arguing about?
Hey Arthur,The quote is from Shakespeare, and he knew a thing or two about life and destiny.
This whole debate is about what? Homosexuals and Religon? Or would one be smarter to see a bigger issue? The issue of rejection! Rejection touches the very soul of all mankind. It is at the very root of our survival as individuals. Are churches great at rejection? yes! This tears at the very fabric they clothe themselves in. The ever swinging pendulem of time has put both homosexuals and the church in the same category of rejected populations.
Rejection is alive and well; it can been seen in the above posts. We reject those we don't even know. We reject each other because of differences we can not control; country of birth, skin color, personality and so on. Most humans are quick to reject that which they are not familiar with! Maybe some day we all can learn not to reject, but to step back and look at issues honestly and realize that every individual struggles in their own way, and in that, we are all more alike they we care to admit!
it's silly to go on about banning religion. mankind invented religion to fill a need. outlaw all religion, and man will just invent a new religion (communism, secular humanism, etc). and the new religions will have scapegoats just like the old ones.
Christians, Catholics, Jews, prods and wee free all condemn homosexuality.....dont tell me they dont, some perhaps more than others. If you are victimised by religion you have a right to object and protest about it. If someone told me I was sick, twisted, unnatural or abnormal because I was heterosexual then I would make a lot of noise, just as I would if I were homosexual.
John 45 What an eminently sensible reasonable and balanced response to this article.Unfortunately agreement with this position will not make it any more likely. There will always be those who seek control for their own ends, whether they are religious or not.
Religious leaders coming together and TB getting bitten on the ass....ooooer missus. The comparison to Lizzies mum is more about her song writing skills v Eltons than reverence, surely. How exactly does NOT having "the odd flour bomb" thrown prove anything and in conclusion, in my opinion, his song writing talents left with his hair.
This nonsense about predestination vs free will is exactly that - nonsense.
If God exists outside of the time that we know then, yes, all ends are known - even unto the end of time - but only to God.
However, to those of us on Earth, we can only make decisions within our own parameters. As such we have free will and we know not what our final destination will be until such time as we reach it.
Simple really.
Doreen, no.47
Wrong Sweetheart.
Most Christians don't condemn homosexuality in either of its forms but the practices associated with it.
Jesus's second commandment was to "Love Your Neighbour As Yourself". Who is a Christian's neighbour but any and every other living person ?
But how can we ever reach our final destination when the M8 is in such a state? Oh...got it, M9 then M876, M80, A80 rejoining in the city...sorry.
#51MS: Don't do it!! Too late, she'll have you now.
Actually, I've just remembered a quote by, I think, Sir Nicholas Fairbairn (dec'd) - hope I've remembered it correctly. Seems quite apt.
"The organ for defaecation was never designed to be an organ of recreation (or procreation)."
Douglas no.53
The chance would be a fine thing !
#54 MSOr as Alf Garnet said "It's a bloody exit not an entrance."
54 Fairbairn reckoned without the fact that for some people of all sexual persuations a good dump is very much a recreational experience. I may be wrong but I thought that he wasn't exactly straight as a die.
Arthur, I think he was a bit of ladies man (one "d") with quite a few conquests!!
Thats just a play on words, in other words if you are an active homosexual you are condemned, a sinner etbloodycetera. If not why would there be Christian fellowshop courses such as 'pure' rolled out to convince people that homosexuality is wrong and that people can redeem themselves and save their souls by turning their backs on their "unnatural" lives. Not all homosexual males indulge in anal sex, just as not all heterosexual couples strictly indulge in vaginal sex.....but I am sure there are many people who would prefer not to believe that. Even if you did not rely on superstition and fables to condemn these people you would find another reason to do so. In this day and age, with all thats going on in the world, the wars, the murders etc....you would think that you would have got over it by now. Just what is it about them you find so threatening? other than the fact a book of daft stories with as much truth as Harry Potter tells you its wrong. As for 56 you sound like a bitter ex-boyfriend.
Sir Elton John, the epitomy of mediocrity, is making a spectacle (not spectacles -plural, this time) of himself again... if only he would work his ideas into his songs, the lyrics would at least be about something.
I think he's only making this bold statement for the publicity, to get the attention he so desperately needs. And apparently it's working...Next it will be "Let's ban freedom of thought, as it causes differences of opinion" or "Let's ban free will, as it breeds conflicts of interest"- or something equally absurd.
I'm neither gay nor religious, but I don't mind if someone else is - as long as they don't radicalise to fundamentalists and/or decide "what is best for me" (or mankind in general).
Put it in a song, Elton, and leave us guessing if it's satirical. Much more interesting! (Randy Newman knows how to do it).
I don't think gay (or straight) people's sexual practices in general are filthy - I suppose there are always exceptions, eh?
I regret writing "epitomy of mediocrity" not clearly enough as my personal opinion. I got irritated, and it was unnecessary.
Homosexuality is a reality, unnatural, and the evidence is beginning to accumulate that it is caused (with many other mental and physical conditions) through the processing of the food in today's Westernised diet but it will probably take about another half-century for the medical profession to accept this feature.
Religion is an interesting fictional tale with political undertones designed to win the minds of society's Lilliputians.
With those two aspects of humanity it can be reasonable be said of them, 'thumbs up backsides, brains in neutral'!
Yes Robert, and all jews have big noses, people with their eyebrows too close together are bound to be criminals, and you can measure a person's skull or a piece of the brain to find out whether he's likely to be a gay or she a lesbian... Honestly believe all that? If it's the western diet that makes people gay, why was homosexuality then an accepted fact in the ancient Greek world? They didn't have McDonalds or GM-crops at the time; The lunatic asylums aren't full of gay (at least, not in this sense of the word) people... so I don't buy it. I think its rather that the morals of the time are of an influence whether a great fuss is being made about homosexuality or not.
As for religion: a great many people take comfort in the idea that there is a higher power. I personally don't believe in all that, but wouldn't want to deny others to take comfort in such belief. To brandish people who DO have religion as "Lilliputians of society", is in my opinion very belittleling (no pun intended). (Mind you, I mean to Lilliputians as well: being little doesn't mean being stupid. Size doesn't matter).I'm not a god or prophet, so I don't know any better !
Go Elton. Not because he's absolutely right (though he could be) but for the sake of argument someone needs to balance out all the hate speach against homos by the religious (though not all the religious I know).
How often does a preacher or some other religious leader bash homosexuality and homosexuals. You think that doesn't lead to hate? You think a book that says we should be killed for having sex (old testament) tought as the be all end all of morality doesn't support hate against gay people???? I mean really is everyone that blind? Or do they just want to be?
And while there may be some religions that don't promote hate on gays, there is a lot of evidence to support that the current popular religions do.
Jeruselam? The catholics the christians the jews and the muslims all got together to make death threats against us for walking in their "holy city". Please.
And lets look at this objectively for a moment, reasons to ban religion vs reasons to ban homosexuality. Think about it?
Elton John is a gifted writer/singer and a whiner - boo/hoo....funny how the gay many times are just as intolerant as they proclaim the hetero's to be. Seems the wrong have always tried to silence the moral......................also, raccoons are not wise - they eat garbage and carry lice.
Yeah, but at least they don't invade other countries and kill innocent people on false pretences. Stick that up your morals.
Raccoons are wise, they dont give f**k about homosexuality or religion, or you and I dear.
The wrong have always tried to silence the moral!...the moral are hanging people because of their sexuality in some countries and making lives miserable because of their so called 'moral' stance, if you are going to talk oppression love come down from your pedestal and put the bible away, maybe then we'l talk.
Doreen, the murder of homosexuals is also condemned. Your problem is that you are looking for plenty of reasons to condemn religion but in reality you only come across as irrational and full of hatred towards religion and those who practise religion.
I dont believe a load of guff that was written in nineteen canteen, I'm not that gullible, and thats what I call irrational...or blind faith, whatever. I do not hate people who practise religion, I dislike religion intensely. If I read comments that are obviously influenced by some superstition and are pompous, pious or holier than thou....it rips my knitting!
