I must admit, I would not p*ss on this lot if they were on fire, but I think the verdict is a good one.

If the BBC chooses to plant spies in a meeting where like-minded retards offer each other moral support in the privacy of their own sadness, then its hardly going to stir up anything that was not there before.

Applying similar logic had the case resulted in conviction, then most of the Americans in the Borat film could be banged up too.

"Mr Griffin had described Islam as a "wicked, vicious faith" in a series of speeches to supporters in 2004, adding that Muslims were turning Britain into a "multi-racial hell-hole".

He should have plead "veritas". Attitudes in this country and in the rest of Europe are undoubtedly hardening against muslims and regardless of our views on the BNP, Mr Griffin expressed views that the majority of us would agree with.

The rise for the far right is what many of us have been warning of and has been fed by uncontrolled immigration at levels that in certain areas make the indigenous population feel like foreigners in their own country, terrorism, crime and a greatly abused asylum system.

Ordinary people are becoming very angry and that makes for a very dangerous situation.

Whilst I disagree strongly with the BNP, I cannot see how their comments regarding a particular religion can be classed as racial hatred. If this was the case, half the weegie football supporters would be guilty.

In addition, the government has been slow to prosecute the many Moslem supporters we have all seen on the television, waving placards demanding the beheading of assorted people. That, in itself, is surely an incitement to murder, but there has been a dearth of prosecutions.

As pointed out by #2, uncontrolled immigration is at the root of a lot of the trouble, as has the uncontrolled so-called asylum seeker situation. Nor has the situation been helped by multi-racialism policies, when the government should have been pushing for integration, not multi-racialism.

However, the most difficult question that has yet to be resolved is, where does free speech begin and end.

I'm sure these events must be a coincidences. The BNP clowns are cleared of race hate and on the same day the MI5 spooks blurt out an old news story which the No 10 ring master is quick to endorse.

At least I hope it's a coincidence. Because, if it's not, it rather suggests that the state's propaganda circus is both alive and, almost unheard of, working Fridays.

It fails to disguise the fact that the BNP obtained a foothold in British politics because the policies of the government are causing the fragmentation of our society.

The only suprise is that the BNP have not got an MP's in Parliament yet because their grass root support is growing daily. While Ministers fumble for more laws they seem to forget it is their policies alone that have caused parties like the BNP to become popular and gifted them with so much to material. If it wasn't for the silliness of EU membership and the madness of open door immigration I would venture the BNP would still be an unknown party -however now it will grow into the mainstream and it must be thanking Mr Blair for his party's careless regard for the British people and for putting them a poor second to foreigners.

While I agree totally with Graham Casey and envy the fact he is living in Country that seems to be applying a common sence attitude to imigration and
the reqirements to become an Australian. The fact that the BNP Two were found not guilty gives some hope that we can all speak openly as the Muslums seem to think it is their privilage only.
In good old English speak'
"What's sauce for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander"

I'm sure the BNP is really a racist organisation, but in this case what they were prosecuted for was their denouncement of a religion.

Unfortunately if you read the Koran and realise that like our bible it is supposed to be taken literally, then Muslims are a dangerous force within this country.

Fortunately most Muslims are like Christians and do not act on the more extreme parts of their holy book.

What an opportunity for a control-freak's government to further erode our freedoms.This has played right into rheir pseudoliberal hands.
The law has not been broken - so let's change the law.
Secret courts will be next - oh, I forgot, they already exist in the family division of English law.

I dont agree with the BNP but they have a right to free speech.There is something detestable about Gordon Brown's immediate attempt to move in on this issue and start talking about mainstream opinion. Mainstream opinion says this is a government of liars.

I Dont like BNP ,Remember we called Enoch Powell a Rascist for saying there would be rivers of blood on Britains streets,In Lancashire the BNP have been Growing larger And you would b very surprised who actually follow them, ,And Now are having their conference in Blackpool winter gardens .

I was Horrified to See The Saltire being flown by BNP supporters on the news the other night ,Sart using the Lion Rampant ,This is the same reason i became to hate the Union flag .

The popularity of the BNP will rise as immigration rises, the government can whine all they want about far right parties, but they have in their power a means to stop and even reduce BNP membership by employing a sensible immigration policy.
I hear statements like "we all have / want to live in a multi-racial society", it's not true. No-one I know has ever said to me that Britain, and more importantly Scotland is a better place because of mass immigration. Sure I've heard Jack McConnell saying this on the TV, but never has it been said to me in general conversation.
As peoples we will tend to "stay with our own", this happens all over the world, never mind just in Britain.
The Chinese and Australian communities in London, the Pakistani community in Polloksheilds in Glasgow ... those people are not being racist in gathering together in one place.

Correspondent no. 5 is most astute in his analysis. However, almost everyone seems to missing a very important point here.
The media, the courts, Government, and the public seem to have lost the distinction between race and culture; with the mass immigration that has occurred, most of what is found objectional is that the immigrants won't leave their culture behind along with their country. By continuing to dress in the garb of their countries, perpetuate their customs and language, they have in effect isolated themselves from the mainstream population.
Most people really couldn't give a damn about the colour of someone's skin - it is an irrelevance. What has many in uproar (myself included) is the erosion of the British way of live, values and customs in favour of a foreign way of life that is completely out of place here.
Thirty years ago this did not seem such an issue, but now it's as inescapable as sunrise; uncontrolled immigration and the belief that multiculturalism would be blindly accepted has given us the BNP. Many of us have learned all they need to know about the erosion of our culture from New Labour, and if there is any justice left in this land, the first casualties of this disastrous policy will be the Government, and along with them, every puffed-up, politically correct local councillor determined to be offended on behalf of immigrants, even if they are not offended themselves.
To paraphrase Jack Nicholson from the film Batman: "This country needs an enema".

Eric #10,

I didn't call Enoch Powell a racist after the rivers of blood speech ... so I don't know where the "we" comes from.
I remember being gobsmacked at the time as I felt he had commited political suicide in making that speech, and I wondered at the time why such an intelligent man would do so.
I feel now that Powell felt it was his duty to warn of problems ahead .... he didn't create the problem, he was just the messenger with a what he felt was a rather awful message.
"Rivers of blood" and the London bombings ... he wasn't far wrong was he.

In this country we have believed that we've had free speech for generations (whether this is true is another matter) - so curtailing it to suit vocal minorities such as Islam is dangerous.

The government and other mainstream parties are breathing life into the likes of the BNP by increasingly hamfisted efforts to dampen down the threat posed by militant Islam. They are foolish to ignore the sleeping giant of reaction by the majority population.

400 years ago heinous penalties were imposed on individuals who dared to criticise the particular flavour of Christian religion of the time. We had thankfully moved on from that - but now we are faced with similar laws being enacted to protect a religion which has had little part in the historical make-up of this country.

If we have come to believe that respect and tolerence for all is the yardstick for behaviour - then surely that must be the measure of any religion, cult or belief system. If any adherents - under the banner of religion - should then advocate intolerence or openly view non-adherents as lesser people, then surely such views (whether cloaked in religion or otherwise) should, and must be crtiticised.

And to top it all off the government has closed the UFO monitoring centre. God knows how many ETs are out there, hiding behind veils, posing as Muslim women.

Its unanimous then, Gordon Brown and the government are as out of touch about what "mainstream opinion" in this country really thinks about race and immigration as they are about what the British people really think about the Iraqui war. Its no wonder that fewer and fewer people are bothering to vote when their views are not being represented by any of the main political parties.

Dennis #16.

Agree with all you said

The arrogance of Gordon Brown is astounding. Because a jury came to a different conclusion to what he sees as the correct verdict the jury must be wrong. He suggests a change in the law is needed so that his will prevails. No Gordon. You are out of touch with the vast majority of the population of this country and until you and your politically correct yes men realise this the country is heading for a whole lot of trouble. Remember Gordon, you were elected to serve your constituents and not to impose your will on the country. Remove the rose tinted glasses.

True, the BNP are scum and undoubtedly they are racist and fascist. Whist the besuited public schoolboys that act as their mouthpieces are all 'on message', the rank and file given the chance will readily sieg-heil and threaten anyone who dosen't fit their ideas of British.

However, since when was insulting a relgion 'racist'? I detest religion, Christianity and Islam alike but would i fall foul of new laws if i speak out in favour of atheism? Or speak out against the mysogny, homophobia and other predjudices contained in the Koran and the Bible?

Maybe this bools-in-the-mooth clown really meant that Arab/Asian relgions were 'wicked' but that's not what he said. Islam is a multi-racial religon encompassing Arabs, Asians and Africans in large numbers but also a growing number of whites. How then can a criticism of Islam be 'racist'?
http://radgedug.blogspot.com/

14. Perkins, Aberdeen /Well said,We were warned years ago ,and the politicians did nothing, things are only going to get a whole lot worse.

The Irony of Gordon Browns comments about changing the law clearly indicates, he and other politicians do not have a clue that they created this verdict. I like many other posters abhore the BNP, however this verdict was not about them and what they said, it was about the resentment and anger ordinary people in the UK feel. We feel dis-enfranchised, we feel isolated and. yes, second class citizens in our own country. The drive for multicultralism coupled with a raft of 'anti' everything laws has made it impossible to be proud of our culture, heritage and history. The Government has been instrumental in making this worse by constantly destroying all that is British. Fascism only survives on the back of frustration and despair. That is HMG's fault, more laws will just make it worse.

Remind me.

Does/will the religious hatred law apply in Scotland?

eric #11 said
"I was Horrified to See The Saltire being flown by BNP supporters on the news the other night ,Sart using the Lion Rampant ,This is the same reason i became to hate the Union flag ."
Yes which is why many English people went over to the Cross of St George. As many Scots know the rise in popularity of the COSG has been evident from around 1996. However, the media especially the BBC and Channel4 uniquely associates the COSG with racism, misleadingly saying that this is what the far right brandish as their emblem. In fact the Union flag is their totem pole.
English activists have a running battle with the media about this which is very vitriolic.
The purchase of 47 million COSG flags during the World Cup made the authorities sit up and take noe, which is why there is a campaign spearheaded by the Church of England (under a Welsh Archbishop) and the BBC to have various Saints adopted in place of St George, because our present Patron Saint is too much of a unifying influence.

what a pity that the case was brought in the forst place ... undoubtedly the BNP is a bunch of racist scumbags and their leaders are as capable of stirring up racial hatred amongst the masses as Hiltler was .... but insulting Islam in this way hardly contravenes any law ... what bothers me is the extent to which this decision fits in with an increasing tendency throughout the "western" world to lump all things immoral backward and anti-establishment into the categories "Islamic" "terrorist" "evil" and so forth .... which simply plays into the hands of the scumbags of the BNP ...

a number of people above have mentioned the "erosion of British values" ... but nobody has yet provided any explanation of what precisely these are ... I once believed that the tolerance of other faiths and cultures was one of these so called "British values" ... clearly I was mistaken

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with this man but this situation worries me. He was charged with something, the court found him not guilty SO LET'S CHANGE THE LAW!!! What? So they can use the change to the double jeopardy law and "get him" next time? What happened to freedom of speech in this country?

As I said before, I am not suggesting that I actually agree with him but as Voltaire is accreditted with saying;

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

31, I agree with you what are our British values and customs that are being eroded? The BNP say that this is not about all Asians but Muslims, yesss indeed but if it were not about Muslims thanks to the escalation of everything of late, it would, without a doubt, be about Asians. Woe betide you lay with a non white and produce a child of mixed race....as far as the BNP are concerned......dont bring them to their meetings even if you are a staunch BNP supporter, cos they aint wanted.

Duncan, the BNP have committed numerous acts of terror. Minorities have been physically attacked by BNP supporters for years and the letters 'BNP' have often been spray painted at the scene. At York University in the 90s a disabled person's car was vandalised and painted with 'BNP'. Obvoiusly the disabled in true Hitler fashion don't make it into their master race. Gay clubs are another target of these braindoners. Left-wing opponents have also been hospitalised by BNP supporters and you only have to look at the number of them with long criminal records to see what their nature is.

Not surprising is it though? Hitler started off by targeting trade unions and socialist parties, same happened in Spain, Italy and in other countires where fascist dicators have taken hold.

Fascism dosen't start with concentration camps, that's where it ends.

Charge someone wrongly (Islam is a religion not a race , that honour of being both goes to the Jews) take them to court twice where 21 out of 24 (that's 87 1/2 %) find them not guilty of these charges.
Is any body really surprised at the governments response, a minority believed the law had been broken and a majority believed it had not so Labour want to change the law to suit the minority which is one of the reasons for the rise of the BNP.
I am an Atheist and I have read the Torah, Koran and the Bible and from reading these books I would neither become or encourage anybody else to become part of any one of these religions.
If the laws that this lot are talking about bringing in are brought in then I and my like will not be allowed to even discuss why we are Atheist in public as to do so would/could mean falling foul of these laws.

what has the law or the courts verdict to do with the damn chancellor, he is not prime minister yet.

All we hear about now is how to change the climate.
a thought worthy of king canute. And this is to distract from the war in Iraq, because blair is clever enough to forecast the US vote.
And peerages for cash.

And why are we warned to expect 30 years of terrorism from the religious sect that I wont dare to mention because of racism

Steve F. of Worcester (#13) suucinctly summed up the nature of the problem. Three generation of greasy-pole climbers at Westminster have allowed the traditions, the culture and quintessence of our nation to be subjugated. Only three weeks ago, a 14 year old British girl was arrested, fingerprinted, photographed and locked up in a police cell in the manner of that befitting a common criminal. Her crime ? To request of her school teacher that she be placed in a work group alongside fellow pupils who could actually speak English. Remember that as you wear your remebrance poppy today.

Our country and its diversity of indigenous cultures is at the point of being destroyed (if not criminalised) by a political ethos based on self serving expediancy and the establishing of a nationwide unelected layer of parasitical 'offence industry' workers and single issue pressure groups.

Instances such as the one above show that, in the public sector at any rate, the race thought police will step on anyone or anything to advance their own avaricious agenda. I presume that's why 'maintream' politicians have to do their damndest to eschew the principle of democracy when applied to groups such as the BNP.

Two million British (and Irish) lives lost in wars to defend a country which now locks up children who prefer to commnicate in English.

Was it worth it ?

#37 Radge Dug wrote" Duncan, the BNP have committed numerous acts of terror. Minorities have been physically attacked by BNP supporters for years and the letters 'BNP' have often been spray painted at the scene."

So what Radge! Blair invaded Iraq with Bush...Blair and Bush aided and abbetted the terrorist sate of Israel when it pounded Lebanon will illegal weapons...They are supposed to represent us all are Blair and Bush...do YOU find that representative of you? NOT IN MY NAME!

As for spraying BNP at scenes of attacks...can you not write BNP, ABC, BBC, CNN, NBC with a spray can...and does that mean that you have to be from any group you spray paint? If that's true then you are an idiot!

I am a BNP member, I am an immigrant, I am British, I came to this country to live a British life rather than the one I left behind...AND I AM DAMNED PROUD OF IT!

I look forward to this new legislation. Then we will see many of the Muslim preachers of hate having to answer for their rantings. Or will we? Will it just be used selectively? You can bet your house on that one.

so then "a British life" ... what is that exactly?

... my experience is that when people say "British" they actually mean "English"

45. Glenn : Like any of the religons you have mentioned, Judaism is multi-racial and always has been, unlike the uneveidenced notions that your group like to believe, and I am very aware that the BNP's number one target is still, and always has been Jews. You can try to present youselves as rational, hard done by disadvantaged whites, sturdy defenders of British "values" (whatever those are?!) but you are a party with a long and present history of being Nazi, rascist terrorist thugs, utterly undemocratic and unresponsive to evidence and reason. Your defence for such actions usually refer to conspiracies, or sullying of purity, or a perversion of science, history or prehistory. Your party is not fit
to speak anything other than self-serving lies, you are as untrustworthy as the religions you hate , and just as full of belief/faith as opposed to reason and evidence.

47

"... my experience is that when people say "British" they actually mean "English""

There are many English people who do not support the BNP and dislike what they stand for. Please do not say this party speaks for any nationality, they represent only themselves and they do not just number English people among their followers.

48 BGW Wrote: Like any of the religons you have mentioned, Judaism is multi-racial and always has been, unlike the uneveidenced notions that your group like to believe, and I am very aware that the BNP's number one target is still, and always has been Jews.

BGW, I had best tell the two Jews from my region, one of whom is the regional organiser and has stood as a candidate for the BNP in the 2005 elections that it is their own policy to hate themselves! Where exactly did you get this rubbish from BGW? Probably the Tories or Lib-Dems or Labour told you that! BNP have nowt against the Jews!

As for a "British life", I live in England, it is British...If I lived in Scotland, "British life" for me would be Scottish, If I lived in Cymru, "British life" would be Welsh. If I lived in Tanzania, I would live an "African life", if I lived in L.A. I would live an "American life"...get the picture?

And Joanna, BNP speaks for me because I support them...please do not say that Labour speaks for me. And by the way Joanna, when you wrote "Please do not say this party speaks for any nationality, they represent only themselves and they do not just number English people among their followers." Where exactly WAS that said...because be damned if I can find it!

Things are now getting out of hand over race/ religion. Firstly, If any one goes to stay in an Islamic Country, we MUST conform to that Lands laws. We must not try to promote our religion in any way. that is the law of the land!
Some of the Islamic faith, decided for whatever reason to come to the UK. The vast majority, prepared to live & work alongside us natives, causing us NO problems.
However as in every applecart,(ours included) there are hotheads. Unfortunately, our governing bodies way of dealing with these problems. is as always to beat the human rights drum.This as always means that our laws must be diluted, to suit the troublemakers.
So, they start with our native beliefs & religions. Since we are a multicultural country now, we must not be seen publicly to show our religion,i,e. remove your Cross, no morning service in schools, etc. However, any other religion which comes into the UK must be allowed to show, or could it be construed as flaunt, their Icons or dress.
these are only a few of the things which cause tension. OK, so some of the UK natives do not have religious beliefs but do not cause trouble, because some others do!
If we trully multicultural, we must ALL be allowed to wear the symbols of what we are! We should not be offended by others LEGAL way of life! However, anyone who came to this country must have believed it was for the better. So, why try to to turn it into what life was like where they came from? Would it not be easier just to go back, I am sure our loving government could put up Millions to help!

Glenn @ 50

I quoted 47, try reading the blog before beginning your rant.

#51 I think you are conflating two issues. It's very rare for an immigrant Muslim, or anyone of any other religion, to ask that religious symbols of the Christain faith or any other faith be removed. It is actually people like me, British people who are sick of having religion shoved down our throats, who want the symbols taken away and the superstitions got rid of. I have campaigned against religion in schools, all religion, including Islam, because it rots our childrens' minds. I continue to hold that view. Children are born atheists. We shouldn't force them into any beliefs until they are old enough to understand the why and wherefores themselves. No indoctrination.

Religion is a personal delusion. It has no place in the public square.

Glenn,

Your party represents only itself and its followers, it does not represent all of the British people whether they are English, Welsh, Scottish or Northern Irish. Do you understand now .... or would you like me to simplify it more?

I am impressed by the common sense displayed in most of these posts, with special compliments to Steve F (13) and Infidel (29), who really 'get it'.
'Another Expat' (31) clearly doesn't; free speech, tolerance and democratic pluralism are core 'British values' (another of which is not to bang on about 'values'), as is robust defence thereof, but Islam is inimical to those very values. Like Infidel, I have read Islamic web-sites, including the supposedly 'mainstream,moderate' Muslim Council of Britain (a 'fifth column' if there ever was one) and it appears that governments must follow the dictates of the Koran and resolve disputes under Sharia law....or else.
As a first step, if MI5 knows the identities of the imams who preach hatred, intolerance, and murder, the appropriate police and political persons have to demonstrate sufficient backbone to have those
imams removed to countries where they will feel more at home, where freedom of speech and religion and democratic pluralism are not tolerated -to wit, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or any other Muslim state, because none of them tolerate our freedoms. There may be moderate Muslims, but there is no moderation in the nasty strain of Wahhabism practiced in many mosques around the country.
Unfortunately, the flame of our once-proud beacon of liberty has been dimmed by spineless panderers like Gordon Brown and the ignoble Lord Falconer, a pair of odious creeps who are a real menace to the well-being of this country.
The next step should be that the SNP, Lib Dems, and Conservatives agree that one party with the best chance of unseating Brown challenge him at the next election, and, judging by the tenor of those posts, I think that one challenger would have a fair chance of ridding the country of this arrogant and incompetent jerk whose most obvious trait is vaulting ambition.
It is the only message our political class will ever heed; the prospect of defenstration from the political gravy trai

#47. I'm a Scot, and while fiercely proud of being Scottish, I am equally proud of being British. I have no prejudices towards the English or anyone else, muslims included. I do not, in any way support the BNP. I do, however, feel that the British Government has entirely turned its back on the British people, terrified of seeming politically incorrect if they ignore muslim extremists who seem to think that our country should become theirs. Why are these people allowed to come live here and preach hatred of us? Why must we hide our values so as not to offend those who, for the most part merely wish to fit in here? If they want a new Muslim country they should go to a Muslim country.
I think of British values as being, for the most-part, stubborn pride in our culture yet fairness towards others as well. It seems to me the government only encourages a backlash by attempting to silence the people under the blanket of 'political correctness' and then claiming it is what the people want. Their apparant spinelessness almost makes me ashamed to be British

The verdict is a vote for common sense!.

Islam is an extremist totalitarian religion which is incompatible with other faiths and cultures. The statement of the Chancellor about changing the Law to prevent criticism of religion is another step towards totalitarianism.

This man is not fit to be Prime Minister. His intention to clamp down on free speech and silence the native British majority is manifest. He is attempting to destroy British identity and import large numbers fof THird World clients.

Joanna you still have not stated the EXACT line in that #47...I sure as hell can't see it there!

As for your comments in #54...read what I said...No wonder you only managed Cambridge...you NEED to be able to read English to a basic level to gain admission to Oxford.

Can't simplify the simple hunny!

This is an important victory for free speech. Anybody can defend the freedom to say things they disagree with - the test is whether you defend the freedom of opponents & on this all the major parties have failed.

It should be remembered that Labour, Tories & Lib Dems have all supported illegal war to help our openly Nazi allies in Yugoslavia & later iraq while the BNP opposed both. As such all of the main parties have been deliberately supportive of racial genocide while the BNP obviously haven't. The BBC's position in lying & censoring in the Nazi cause over the last 16 years makes their position re the BNP particularly disgraceful. It is the main parties not the BNP who have blood on their hands.

"He insisted in court that his speech was not an attack on Asians in general, but on Muslims."

This is an interesting example of the way the PC crowd have tied themselves in knots. Asians overwhelmingly are the peoples of India, China & Japan who are not Moslems & thus an attack on Islam cannot be an attack on asians. Of course asian doesn't reaslly mean asian it is a euphemism for people whose ancestral home in P*k*st*n.

Graham 5 I think comparisons with Australia are a bit off the mark. Since 1945, over 6 million people from 200 countries have come to Australia as economic migrants and the country now has a population of over 20 million people. So on my reckoning that makes almost a third of the population immigrants. Maybe you are an immigrant yourself.

In any case for an Australian to lambast the UK for having an open door immigration policy is a tad ironic considering the number of Brits who have emigrated to Australia. It would be interesting to hear what the indigenous Australians think of it all.

Gordon Brown quote: "Mainstream opinion in this country will be offended by some of the statements that they have heard made,".
Evidently, the acquitting jury is not 'mainstream opinion'. They are just no-account serfs who should not be permitted to decide the 'offence' as acceptable within the law.

Bruce 18 - the government aren't out of touch at all about what people think of the war in Iraq. That is why a lot of this is happening. You have to have an enemy to justify a war!

10 years ago, I bet that 95% of the posts here would have be outraged at how the 'Evil Nazis got away with it'.

Today, 95% of the posts, while not all supporting the BNP, accept that what has been said is, if not verifiable fact, at the very least something that should not be criminal to discuss.

And quite a few go further.

To all politicians, and all those still having Political Correctness as their 'faith' – stop and have a look at what’s happening in the real world. We live in a country that has changed and is continuing to change.

The indigenous majority has at last got completely fed up with being treated as third class citizens; and while that continues, so will the fragmentation in our 'multi-cultural' country.

Glenn,

You are one of the best reasons I've seen yet, for detesting the views and aims of the BNP. It attracts people like you and you are obviously the type of person that we saw on the news last night. Keep on with your ranting and insults and I am reassured that any sane or decent person will not join your party.

#60 Neil you show your true colours. You compare apples and oranges - yes the government and other parties have done terrible things AS WELL. Two wrongs do not make a right.

#62 Understand that the jury may well have been offended - they weren't asked whether they were offended, they were asked to decide whether this was racial hate speech according to the law of this country, which it quite evidently wasn't. They may or may not have agreed with what was said, but that was nothing to do with their decision.

Why showuld the law be changed we still have free speech and these two were tried and found not guilty by a jury so why does the law need to be changed just because they didnt get convicted. That is no way to run a country if we cant get them one way lets change the rules.

Btw, Glenn

You now want to turn this into a point scoring exercise between Oxford and Cambridge, which is incredibly infantile of you. Are you even old enough to vote yet?

60. Neil, 9% GROWTH Party:
Aye, it's an illegal war. Naw, the Bnp is not an anti-war party, nor is it pacifist. They grow and act on the principle of violent intolerance. I have had many friends battersd by BNP supporters for daring to disagree. It is not the "PC crowd" (define please) who are responsiblre for this parties long term inheritance of Mosely's fascist party, nor their continued use of violence, intimidation against all minorities, and muzzling of free speech on women's liberation, unions, and dissenters. they are responsible for their own violence, or they learned it from twisted parents, twisted imperialist teachers, or rascists pals. They preach hatred and violence. I bear the scars of one of their attacks myself, odd since I was advocating non-violence at the time, for being a Scot visiting London. Avictory for free speech would be to ban them and get past the meally mouthed "respectable front" of their loutish leadership.
Who is this Jewish organiser in your party Glenn. Name? Or is it a lie, or does your party's policy of secrecy apply still?

Glenn, you wrote :

"As for a "British life", I live in England, it is British...If I lived in Scotland, "British life" for me would be Scottish, If I lived in Cymru, "British life" would be Welsh. If I lived in Tanzania, I would live an "African life", if I lived in L.A. I would live an "American life"...get the picture?"

no, not yet ...

The law shouldn't be changed as long as it would be acceptable to describe Christianity or Judaism as a wicked, vicious faith and said 'Let's show these Jews/Christians the door'.

If people are cool with a Muslim, for example, saying that then there is no issue.

#71, Miss H.

You have missed the point completely I think!!!

People are changing views on this issue, because the way this country is at the moment it is ONLY Muslims who can get away with criticising other religons.

Where on earth have you been!?!?!?

#72 Untrue. I have vocally criticised Islam as being homophobic and anti-women for years, in print and in person. I am not in jail. I vocally do the same against Christianity too. I am not a Muslim. Ergo, your statement that only Muslims can get away with it is wrong, and dare I suggest, deliberately provocative.

this is good crack, if you dont like the jury verdict, keep changing the law till you get the verdict you want, does this mean we might get some law changes that the majority demands,sentencing,capital punishment etc. doubt it. what a bizarre nation we have become. in my youth if anyone had told me of all this i would have had them sectioned. were i younger i could have gone to iraq to kill or be killed, but i can no longer chase foxes about the fields, i cant even have a fag down the pub.the list is endless totally bizzare. talking of lunatic political correctness. has anyone else noticed that the yak on the beechams advert no longer farts

Part of the evidence provided to the court was a recording of the BNP leader reading from the Koran and yet he was the one in court,its a funny old world.Hundreds march in support of the murder of a Danish cartoonist and yet only a hand full are charged,funny old world.By standers who take exception to the banners denouncing their western way of life and their religion are warned by the police yet the march is allowed to continue,well I think you get the picture.tell me again,which way of life is the one under threat?

Humanist ... what precisely is your beef?

Infidel's interesting tirade could of course be made about the Bible or the Torah ... all religious books have extensive sections concerning the fate of non-believers ... and the emphasis on these depends on how these books are read, by whom and why, and most crucially on the political context in which these readings are articulated ... at the moment, this context is firmly rooted in that idiot Bush's declaration that "either you are with us or you are with theh terrorists" ...

I have no doubt that the British government is as stupid as it always was, but I still do not know what is meant by "British" - except as an adjective describing the so called "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" ... so many people decry the loss of "British" values but are rather vague about what these are, or confuse them with their own self-interests - which are usually just more English nimbyism ... either that or they ramble on about tolerance democracy and decency while complaining that immigrants don't understand this properly and should thus leave ... and in doing so they simply cut the ground from beneath their own feet

I do not care what this person said or says.
I will defend his right to say it however.
It is a MUST that anyone and everyone should eb able to say whatever he or she likes no matter the content. It is up to indivduals to make thier own minds up and it is most certainly not applicable that a politician decides what can or cannot be said.
That is the truly dangerous path the spectre of a one party state controlling all speech.
No !
The people must have their say and we must defend each individuals right to free speech no matter what the content.
If you are offended by what someone says then don't listen.

With the number of comments on this subject it's apparent that this subject is one we feel strongly about, pity that there is some sort of slanging match going on in the latter comments.

I suggest :-
1) The Government reviews it's laws on immigration as a priority.
2) The Muslim / Asian community reviews it's "total outrage" at any critisism given to it's religion, that is becomming a tad tiresome.
3) Politicians of all parties stop this "BNP are evil people" rant ... they are people annoyed and upset at this political correctness.
Address the issue, debate the points ... that is what you are paid for.

#68 Joanna:

Run along and bake some cookies! Yes I am old enough to vote...I am also old enough that I possess 7 degree's in physics, Chemistry and Law.

As for your comments in #65...The BNP are fussy about who is accepted...chances are...well... ;)

Have fun, I have work to get on with!

#79 Iv'e got 8 degree's and a City and Guild's in bricklaying, and I still ca'nt work out where to put apostrophe's.*

*Not all of these statement's are true. A bit like yours.

It is not so much racism that causes the divide, it is more about culturalism.Britain is historically a white society and the muslim states are Asian. The British culture is different to that of the Muslim culture, the muslim nations have infrastructures and political regimes which are different to the British systems and the religious views of the 2 cultures are also very different.

But what seems to happen is that Muslim people looking for a better way of life than can be achieved in their own nations, arrive in Britain and demand freedom of religious values. But if a British person was to arrive in an Asian nation and make such demands then he or she would be stoned to death.

The British way is to permit all cultures and religions to exist within Britain, whereas the Muslim way is to deny all other cultures and religious values any voice whatsoever in Muslim nations. Of the two, the Muslim way appears to be by far the most racist.

But then when one British person speaks out, he or she is suddenly branded racist.

To be honest, I think the best way to do it is for all nations to maintain their own identity. If you live in Britain you conform to British society and leave your own religious beliefs and ways of prayer at the door. If it is too difficult to leave your religious ways at the door, then you must return to the country which suits your interests.

Duncan, you are of course correct. People can and do criticise Islam.

I should have said that it is the 'perception' in this country that Islam is an untouchable religion, whereas Muslims themselves can stand outside churches with banners proclaiming 'death to all Christians'.

It's that inequality that I think is forcing a lot of people to rethink this issue.

For the record, I was baptised a Christian, but have been a 'devout atheist' since I was 8. I'm sharing this to show I have no particular religious axe to grind. All religions appear to have extremists in their ranks, but Islam seems to have more than it's fair share, and while on the whole Christian extremism tends to manifest itself in strongly worded pamphlets, Islamic extremists are altogether more medieval.

Glenn,

You do not state where you come from in your posts. However, you are obviously an American by your use of the word 'cookies'.

Why is an American a member of the BNP? Are you a disaffected member of the student's union who is looking for a cause while he is over here studying? Go and join a sit in.

#82 Bobby .... Islam seems to have more than its fair share of extremists? ... erm ... on what basis do you make this claim? ... did you forget perhaps the huge number of fundamentalist Christians who inhabit the USA?

Race, Culture and Religion,(RCR) are not exclusively tied to each other. There are some folks out there who would love to have us believe that RCR from certain parts of the world are anathema to our way of life. There are others, who would have us believe that inclusion of these RCR's are good for our society. Regardless, folks are always going to want to come to a place that has a percieved ecomomic plus, they bring their religion and culture with them, as many times that is all they have. One writer lamented the lack of respect? Try giving it first! Its amazing what can be accomplished with a genuine smile on your face.

One other thing, Glenn, you have 7 degrees you say, so what? You show your immaturity by:

a. Shouting (use of capital letters) in your previous posts.

b. The need to boast about your qualifications in a public forum.

Back to work you go, are you colouring in your campaign poster?

I have read the above posts and I note that there are many who say - I don’t like the BNP - BUT!

Its the "BUT" that counts, it means that the BNP really do reflect on the majority of views in Britain and these people are too scared to open up and speak their minds because in reality free speech only exists when its permitted. Basically there is no such thing as free speech in this country - we have been silenced by political correct do-gooders in governmental positions, and this smacks of Marxism

To be honest I blame the governments (Lab and Cons) for the predicament the UK is in at the moment. If I remember correctly the British public in the 50's and 60's were not asked if we wanted millions of Asians to come and live here. It didn't go to a national vote whether we wanted the immigrants. But they came, with a job, a home and free health service all thrown in.
They didn't integrate, ghettos were formed in northern towns and over the past 40 years the trend has grown with to the extent of no-go areas for whites.

Also, isn't it strange that asylum seekers pass through 6 or 7 "safe" countries to reach our shores, it stinks.

The "Abu Hamza"s of the UK still thrive. Placards wishing Death to all those who insult Islam are paraded for all to see in London. Open death threats to Tony Blair for the war on Iraq. The burning of the Union Flag by Asians in London. The UK is a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists as pointed out recently by the head of the MI5. 1600 suspects are being sought after. The list is endless!

I blame The government for initially inviting millions of Asian immigrants here in the 60's, the arrogant attitudes of the third generation of these initial settlers to our shores, and the EEC for allowing millions more of eastern immigrants into our country.

I am fed up of hearing Asians saying that they are British because they are born here, well just because you were born in a stabl

Perhaps the Government in Westminster and the Scottish Parliament could get of the fence and deal with crime.Racism in any form is a crime the BNP,s very rhetoric is criminal please do not dress it up and say they have a right to speak as they do.What people in Britaun have is frustration.Sort out immigration law do it properly. By the same token any and I mean any person holding a placard up describing racial hatred and violence should be in jail.I am totally against racism but in the case of a person not having British nationality then clearly their wish is not to be here so deport them with dignity.Stop making law after law that so far have done nothing more than to have left people feel the way they are feeling.The inadequacy is with politicians who do not do the job they should. Let me see that would actually be listening and acting on the opinions of the people they are supposed to represent.Open you mind Mr Blair and clean the mess up before you leave.

'Another expat', again I find myself being properly corrected. I have no evidence that there are more extremists who follow Islam rather than any other religion.

But I think I made a fair pointin that those who are are several orders of magnitude more dangerous than even US fundemental Christians.

I guess my feeling that Islam is a more 'extreme' faith is based on it's intolerance of other religions and their laws.

you all like shooting your mouths off in print, for all the good it will do apart from buttering your own egos, which is precisely why peple go into politics or the councils.

please don't believe all the lies you hear from politicians , most of them aren't true.

remember:
The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones.

and i am not pointing the finger at our self revered government, am I

"Another Expat" asks "what, precisely, is my beef?"
I thought it was very clear, AE.
I apostrophised "British values" because many here, including me, are generally uneasy about "values", unlike our US friends, who seem to assume a widely-shared set of American "values".
Those widely-shared socio-political beliefs some people call values are generally held, in this country, to include, for example, freedom of speech and assembly and democratic pluralism. I wasn't remotely vague on the subject.
I regret having to repeat my 'beef', which could hardly be more plain. The British government may well be "as stupid as it always was" but THIS British government also includes a collection of spineless, politically-correct panderers to a religion whose core "values" would have non-believers exterminated, and which is most widely practiced in countries which denigrate freedom of speech and assembly and democratic pluralism. Islam informs the entire life and behaviour of its adherents and prescribes death for those who convert; they're not exactly Methodists.
I suggested that Gordon Brown's response to the BNP jury's decision made him deserving of political extermination by the good and wise voters in his Fife constituency.
I didn't suggest that imams advocating the murder of non-Muslims or anybody else "should thus leave", I suggested that they should be expelled from the country. Nor does that "cut the ground" from beneath my love of tolerance and freedom of speech, which is not usually held to include incitement to murder. You read and think as carelessly as you write; I made no mention of "immigrants", and am confident that neither Polish plumbers nor Baltic hookers are likely to want to blow up trains or planes.
And being a son of East Lothian, I am not guilty of "just more English nimbyism", (nimbyism being universal) althoug

perhaps it would be appropriate to remind readers of this debate that Stu51's (#87) potted history of immigration is a tad partial ... it may be true that the good citizens of Britland were not asked about "allowing" so much immigration during the fifties and sixties, but they were the ones whose reluctance to work as binmen, station porters, unskilled factory labourers and so forth made it necessary for the government of the day to invite members of (former) colonial countries to do such work ....

Ghettoes "were formed" is a very vague and imprecise way of clouding over very many issues .... the fact is that anybody with a non caucasian appearance was immediately subjected to a lot of ignorant racism - that clearly persists to this day ... it is perhaps true that there are "no-go areas for whites [sic]" but I wonder how many Asian and/or coloured people could safely stroll through wealthy suburbs of any British city without encountering racist abuse and/or police harrasment ...

BGW 69
"Aye, it's an illegal war. Naw, the Bnp is not an anti-war party, nor is it pacifist. They grow and act on the principle of violent intolerance. I have had many friends battersd by BNP supporters "

It is a matter of fact that the BNP opposed bombing Yugoslavia & Iraq whereas Labour & Tories supported both illegal wars & the Lib Dems the former. They are not pacifist - nor are most opposed to agression.

Since the Yugoslav wars, in particular were carried out to support Nazis engaged in genocide the relevance to accusations made against the BNP is obvious.

The ability of you & your friends to get into fights does not prove your commitment to sweet reason & I suspect the alleged BNP supporters would tell a different tale as to who started it.

Duncan 66
"Neil you show your true colours. You compare apples and oranges - yes the government and other parties have done terrible things AS WELL"

If my true colours include a deep commitment to free speech then yes I have shown my true colours. With your bold "as well" you must be able to give some example of the BNP's involvement in bombing hospitals, genocide, child sex slavery & the ethnic cleansing of 350,000 human beings or something closely equivalent. If not you owe the BNP an apology.

touched a raw nerve I see Humanist ...

I suggest that if you are honestly interested in comparative religion and the extent to which different religions are tolerant or otherwise of nonbelievers, you google the words "new" "American" and "century" ...

Reluctance to work in low paid jobs is a function of the low pay. We are a rich country and a decent wage is all that Brits require. Do the arithmetic of a minimum wage. If Brits could go to other countries and be paid four times that wage, they would work hard and long. I myself have worked on farms with foreigners from all over the world. There were only two muslims among the hundreds of us working there and they were conspicuous by their laziness. I didn't get paid anymore than they did but I worked far harder. They were invited to work with the women in the end because the back bending didn't appeal to them. So, keep your 'lazy Brit' speech to yourself ....it isn't true.

In Germany, Canada and the United States extreme nationalists and white racialist organizations have been found to be agents and informers of the State. The KKK in the US was almost as thoroughly infiltrated and exploited as the American Communist Party--which depended on their dues! These groups as a foil against which the Statists propose laws and programs to fight against in 'defense' of 'decency', 'reason', 'anti-racism', etc..

As citizens of our various lands, we simply must ask ourselves, "Do we want or need further immigration"? I personally stand with those who say, "No! 'ell No"!

The problems of modern society are to a great degree part and parcel of increased population. As the West has to a great degree stabilized its population growth, it is up to these exporters of humanity to deal with their own population growth.
Often it is the best and the brightest who desert their homelands--precisely those who are needed in to build their nations and solve the very problems that drive them to our shores.

And, in many cases, it is the swine of the City and Wall Street who with their Quisling allies in the Third World who create the very considitions from which their emmigrants seek to escape. From our 'friends' in Beijing with their slave labour and human organ confiscations from prisoners...from vile creatures like Marcos of the Philippines and the Manila oligarchy or the various gutter animals that have ruled for the banks in South and Central America and Africa...Somoza, Mugabe, Pinochet... to name a few.

The East India Company is in great part responsible for the 'prosperity' of Calcutta...this is the kind of predetary capitalism that rules the world today. It will not end with the overt racism of some in the BNP who only see part of the problem and respond with partial solutions and add more hatred and resentment to a world chock full of it already.

I don't want the 'Calcutta Development Model'

Yugoslavia wasn't bombed, the Serbians were bombed. They had formerly been part of the expansionist Ottoman empire and the dregs of it still attack Christians in the area. Kosovo is a part of Serbia with a 90% Albanian muslim population who are harrassing and killing Serbs even now. We were propagandized about the Balkans and the so called 'race hate' speech of Milosovic which was widely reported at the time was actually nothing of the sort...I've read it. The Serbs who fled to Macedonia were turned back or killed by Islamist militias at the border. Serbs were the only ones who fought nazism during the last war and Croats and Albanians and Turks fought against them. In short, we bombed the wrong people. I currently chat with a Serbian woman on skype and she is a lovely person who admits her own forces did atrocious things but the street was definitely two way even though the propaganda would have you believe otherwise. Tell a lie for long enough and fools will believe it. Ask the Armenians about Islam. Ask yourself too, where is the current outrage from muslims about the butchery in Darfur? They are muslims being slaughtered......but their killers are also muslim so I suppose that is ok.

BEWARE! >>> And BEWARE!
Being born during the chaotic early 1920's social upheaval resulting from the cessation of the brutal 1914/18 war which left almost every working class family in Europe mourning the loss of a young father, husband or son slaughtered in a needless butchery on the blood soaked battlefields of France and Belgium there emerged the political ideology, Fascism.
Almost every Royal Family in Europe were literally trembling in their shoes as many workers all over Europe decided enough was enough, after this awful dreadful slaughter had taken place. Almost every Royal family were German related including the present family in the UK who had to change their German name to Windsor, hoping to escape the wrath and hostility of the people off the UK.
Revolution was on the horizon and this was when Mussolini who claimed to be socialist won the support of the workers in Italy to form his New Fascist Party. And guess who welcomed the new ideology of Mussolini, none other than the late Mr Churchill who admired him. Disillusioned workers all over Europe were seeking radical change mainly because of how they were being used by lying and deceitful opportunist politicians. Fascist regimes became the order of the day in many countries from Germany, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria etc. We even had former Labour MPs here who desperately attempted to cash in on the disillusionment of the ordinary people that led to street battles in London and hunger marches from Scotland right to the South of England; which the state responded with their usual brutality. Mosley, a former Labour Party MP was winning support from many corners of the UK for his Blackshirt Fascist Party including certain Tory MPs and a rump off well known Tories. Watching carefully New Labours relationship with wealthy business friends and financial donors prompts the question; are we heading for a similar situation as post 1918 as Griffith's BNP wins more and more support from ord

This is not so much about BNP or race laws, as about this government's intention to do away with the jury system which was instituted in the 1600's and is central to our legal system (as is habeas corpus whih they are also trying to do away with by having long imprisonment without charge).

The accused were tried, found not guilty by a jury, and acquitted.

Lord Goldsmith the Lord Chancellor the senior legal figure in the land and George Brown the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Prime Minister apparently do not like the verdict and propose changing the law to suit their party ideology.

This is appalling and demonstrates yet again the ignorance of the senior officers in our government.

#99 Wilaw--The NATO attack on Serbia violated at least 4 international treaties and the NATO charter. It was supported by false reports of the genocide of the Albanians and 'masacres' that never happened in Kosovo. The US and UK, in particular, supported the move on behalf of the KLA--an INTERPOL-named drug dealing outfit. And, the forward move of US troops into the Balkans was called for by Cheney's DoD's strategy papers prior to his leaving office when the Chimp's daddy 'lost' the '92 election to his crime-family buddy Clinton.

The Serbian province is now being ethnicly cleansed of its Gypsies, Jews and Serbs under the auspices of the internationalists, under the very eyes of that gaggle of tax-and-dung-eating vermin--the EU Parliament. The only thing lower than a Serb in the eyes of official Europe is a Palestinian.

For Americans, Kosovo should be a prime argument as to why you shouldn't allow unrestricted immigration from a neighboring and unabashedly revanchist neighbor. But, my countrymen, by and large, couldn't find Kosovo on a map if they looked all day and only extract their heads from their nether regions to watch "Dancing with the Stars" or sports.

I just googled the Faith Freedom.com link referred to above.
I found that there are two websites with this name. One is in the US and is a site established by an Islamic group to counteract religious bigotry directed at Moslems. The other is FaithFreedom.org, is the link placed in the letter above and is a site that uses Qoranic quotes to establish the thesis that Islam is inherently and quintessentially evil.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

#104 Bill--They don't like the jury system here in the States. They hate and try to bury the concept of jury nullification, elected judges or anything else that stands in the way of unbridled power for the bench-squatting corporate barriters that make up the bulk of judges today. Judges here have overturned the decisions of juries. The Military Commissions Act and other assorted laws passed by the Chimp's rubberstamp Congress, when taken together, allow these swine to strip the citizenship of people declared "enemy combatants" at the Chimp's discretion and hold them indefinitely without trial.

They have already made severe inroads on the right to bear arms in the UK and they are trying to do the same thing here in the States. If we ever give up our guns in America, we will be at the mercy of Washington and any pretense of natural rights, the rights of Englishmen or the rights 'guaranteed' by the Constitution--our guns, and the oligarchy's fear of them and the patriots who still wear the uniform, keeps them from moving on with their power grab at a faster pace.

Prinzowhales
Thanks for reaffirming my belief in the integrity of American people.

Congratulations to Griffin and the jury at Leeds Crown Court. If it's a democracy it's a democracy. We can not change laws to create a democracy dictatorship. If some people don´t like Griffin ideas they should read more about democracy and not trying to forbid ideas.

whilst i totally oppose racial incitation, i think that there are two sides to the story, particularly in some areas of UK. On the 1 hand you have freedom of speech the Christian bible preaches against Islam , do we ban this ,maybe so, EVEN ON SUBJECTS SUCH AS POLOTICS,RELIGION AND FOOTBALL YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU SAY AND WHERE,Britain was reputed to be a free country where if within the law you could say and do as you please , theLAW, IS CHANGING FASTER THAN YOU CAN CHANGE A BABIES NAPPY. To suit who?

So Wilaw, having lived in Maryhill i know a wee bit about schemes and drugs and most of the drugs used there did not come from Asians. Where do the jellies come fae? Or the Es? Or the coke that has filtered down from the middle classes?

BNP are scum. Britain has always been a mongrel society. Even England whos royal family has only recently started speaking English as opposed to French, Latin or German. Scotland is one of the oldest nations on earth (and mixed too) and no way do i see us as 'British'. Indpendence is coming to the B in your NP will become irrelevant anyway.

The BNP are doing their best to be seen as respectable but remember that Hitler started off using democracy to his own ends.

No more fascism.

Personnaly I think Brown would sell his mother if it suited his political career

Prinzowhales, you do NOT speak for the American people. Your opinions are your own, and fortunately not the mainstream opinion.

Fortunately, we do have a tri-partate system in this country with checks and balances of each on the other. For example: the Democrats just took over the Congress, but the Supreme Court is more conservative than liberal, so that is going to be a check on the rather boistrous Congress we can now anticipate.

As for the right to bear arms, that is granted to us by the Constitution. The right to bear arms to conduct criminal activity, or to leave firearms lying around the house for children to find and use, however, is not part of that law, nor are assault rifles, grenades, and other military gear included in that right.

Calling our President the "chimp," Mr. Prinzowhales, is appalling, especially if you are a British ex-pat living here. It is equally appalling if you were fortunate enough to be born in this country.

George W. Bush was elected and has spent six years trying to deal with the international chaos created in the previous eight years. Bill Clinton was elected eight years earlier. I dislike Bill Clinton and was appalled at his personal mores, but have never likened him to J. Fred Muggs or any other lesser primate. In behavior, in any case, Mr. Clinton was far more like a bonobo or perhaps a rabbit.

Nor would I compare the British Prime Minister to any lower animal. I personally think Tony Blair has done a good job in difficult times, as has George W. Bush. They are good men doing their best each under the laws of his country, and therfore deserve respect. You don't have to like them or agree with them.

Russell 117

As far as I'm concerned Brown and Blair and the others have sold their mothers already. They have betrayed their birthright, which is to defend the country their ancestors have fought and died for, time and time again.

Well Martha, you amaze me. You say that Blair and Bush are "good men doing their best each under the laws of his country".

They are evil men doing the best for themselves regardless of any law. As for comparison with lower animals, I don't think there are any lower than these two who are responsible for the murder and torture of hundreds of thousand of innocents - animals don't do that sort of thing.

Your history is completely wrong, Mr. Russell. Large international companies continued to do business with Hitler through the war: ITT is a prime example of that. But as for the Jewish Rothschilds supporting Hitler-- they did not. One of the Rothschilds was even interned in a concentration camp.

The number of pro-Nazis in both our countries prior to WW-II is shameful enough without staining the innocent-- but in the case of Britain, that quiet collaboration was right at the top. Your precious Prince of Wales, later Edward VIII, thought Hitler was quite the thing. That same peerless prince, on a visit to Africa, complained loudly about having to sit through yet another native dance performed by "more of those n***ers." Good thing Edward VIII had taken himself out of the picture by the onset of hostilities in 1939, isn't it? Or he'd have been sending Hitler information on British military movements.

Bill, you can have your opinion, but I think history will judge you wrong.

and he did support financially ,do you think he cared who was gassed , POWER speaks volumes ILLUMINATY

INCIDENTALLY The american propaganda does not appeal to me , or perhaps your people since the seem to be ready to rid themselves of Bush as we will Blair ND POSSIBLY ENGLAND TOO

Duncan its not just in these places youll find these stories believe what you will

Russell I suspect Labour is much more likely to get large donations from the rich than the BNP.

I also seriously doubt if the Rothschilds ever gave money to Hitler.

#110--The UKs spooks kept up a terror war with the IRA--which they had infiltrated and, according to one of their operatives, were responsible for around 70% of the attacks attributed to the IRA. Much of what these men have had to say has been kep out of the mainstream by the Official Secrets Act. (In America, the Chimp's regime has used a similar laws to gag witnesses to regime involvement with 9-11 like Sibel Edmonds, the former FBI translator.)

The IRA has been replaced by Islamists as the object of fear and the mob is being whipped up against them. In France, we recently saw the riots fueled by agents provocateurs and the orchestrated and inflammatory cartoon assault spread through the European press. The American regime had a program to provoke Islamists to radicalize them and lead to violence that they could then point at to justify the 'Clash of Civilizations'.

We have the taped record of the Egyptian-born FBI informant who was part and parcel of the Islamic group that set of the '93 WTC bomb. The bombing could not have been carried out without him and when he asked his FBI handler to let him replace the explosives with a harmless substance, he was told to leave it as it was. He was paid handsomely for his silence--the Regime had tried to prosecute him, but he had taped his handler's incriminating words and that saved him.

Israeli agents were captured by the Palestinians trying to set up a false-flag al Qaeda organization and we have seen on numerous occassions that Zionists have desecrated Jewish synagogues or created incidents to evoke sympathy for themselves.

If the Regime in London succeeds in polarizing the Moslem minority and the nativists, then it will give them an excuse for more laws, more police, more surveillance to 'keep the peace.'

Shut the doors to all immigration. Extend hands of peace from both sides and realize that the men who run the governments and the oligarchs behind them are the common enemies of a

Neil i really do suggest more research it happens to be as true as the americans funding Marx

And we are still paying them off for loans in WW2

Victoria also borrowed from them

Anyway this article has to do with a bunch of lager louts the BNP

your wrong speak to george galloway anyway even if you were right do you think this is fair exccange for their Freedom

Martha 125

I'm talking about the hundreds of thousands of innocents that perished as a result of the illegal invasion of Iraq. I'm not talking about the hundreds of thousands of innocent who died as a result of the sanctions imposed on Iraq, I'm not talking about the hudreds of thousands of innocents killed in the USA-sponsored war of Iraq against Iran. If I were I would be talking about the millions killed as a result of the USA foreign policies through the years.

Who invited Bush and Blair to invade Iraq to impose "democracy" and "civilisation" and who invited them to stay to "keep peace between the warring sectarian groups in Iraq so that some semblance of democratic government can be set up"?Nobody!

You say "keep them the hell out of my country". Funny that, they are saying the same thing about you. Maybe people have a lot more in common than you realise, and maybe they like to get on with their own way of life without interference.

#137 Chairman Gordon
Just to be pedantic, I had occasion to look up the date we finish paying the US for these loans and apparently it is 31 December 2006, when we pay them the final £45m.

The sooner we get Independence, Scotland that is, the better.

JG thank you for that what can they do with that i wonder send a soldier to iraq to die

Gordon, it's a worry!

#118 Martha--You think in terms of the insipid right-left, Republican-Democratic paradigm. Just because the left hand of the Establishment 'won' and the right hand 'lost' doesn't mean that anything has changed for those who put on the puppet show.

As you might have noticed, the leadership of the Democratic 'left' has announced that the Chimp will not be impeached. John Conyers, the great Demo saviour, will not fight for impeachment, investigations into the lies that launched us into war or the Halliburton crimes. The prospective Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, has announced that she wants 'a partnership' with our Gay Cabolero-in-Chief...."common ground", is the new buzz phrase, if I'm not mistaken.

So, there is no real change in the works it seems. The Dem leadership is even more devoted to the war than the Republicans and the Neo-Scum are abandonning the Bush faster than rats leave a sinking ship. So, your textbook understanding of government in these United States is really irrelevant in the face of the reality of politics in modern America.

Martha, I don't claim to speak for the American people. As a matter of fact, since Agent Sandy seems to be on vacation, I would think that you would be more qualified to speak for them as your posts exude those qualities that have made America what it is today.

I don't really care how you feel about how I dub Fearless Leader--or the Clin' Toons, for that matter. I am, however, gratified that you are liberal and open enough to accept as your leader a man who leaves the borders of the United States open and allows male whores to overnight at the White House. I hope you will remain steadfast in your support of the GOP--The 'Grand Old Pederasts' . It is good Americans like yourself, who make our country what it is today! Its good that Americans like yourself are willing to excuse the lies that brought us wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Without men and women like you, we might s

#112 radge judge said

"BNP are scum. Britain has always been a mongrel society. Even England whos royal family has only recently started speaking English as opposed to French, Latin or German. Scotland is one of the oldest nations on earth (and mixed too) and no way do i see us as 'British'. Indpendence is coming to the B in your NP will become irrelevant anyway.

The BNP are doing their best to be seen as respectable but remember that Hitler started off using democracy to his own ends.

No more fascism."

-------------------------------------------------------

Would you rather see shairah laws in our lands, a Muslim King or Queen perhaps, even a Muslim Prime Minister - your call....

I would welcome an English parliament and England as an independent country just as you wish Scotland was independent. But at least you have your own parliament and the Welsh have their own Assembly so you are well on your way and I would welcome the independence of all four countries - and give Ireland back to the Irish, it doesn't "belong to anyone but the Irish.

Can someone tell me : does or does not the Koran say that Mohammed ordered his followers to "kill all the unbelievers".

Things are now getting out of hand over race/ religion. Firstly, If any one goes to stay in an Islamic Country, we MUST conform to that Lands laws. We must not try to promote our religion in any way. that is the law of the land!
Some of the Islamic faith, decided for whatever reason to come to the UK. The vast majority, prepared to live & work alongside us natives, causing us NO problems.
However as in every applecart,(ours included) there are hotheads. Unfortunately, our governing bodies way of dealing with these problems. is as always to beat the human rights drum.This as always means that our laws must be diluted, to suit the troublemakers.
So, they start with our native beliefs & religions. Since we are a multicultural country now, we must not be seen publicly to show our religion,i,e. remove your Cross, no morning service in schools, etc. However, any other religion which comes into the UK must be allowed to show, or could it be construed as flaunt, their Icons or dress.
these are only a few of the things which cause tension. OK, so some of the UK natives do not have religious beliefs but do not cause trouble, because some others do!
If we trully multicultural, we must ALL be allowed to wear the symbols of what we are! We should not be offended by others LEGAL way of life! However, anyone who came to this country must have believed it was for the better. So, why try to to turn it into what life was like where they came from? Would it not be easier just to go back, I am sure our loving government could put up Millions to help!

This isn't racism, It's religonism. Muslims are not a race, Jews are not a race, Christians are not a race. I can't see why so called intelligent people in the government insist on saying it is racism.

#155 Probably. There are plenty of violent passages in that book, just like other "holy" books. The Bible certainly tells all of its followers to make slaves of the people of other countries, among many other unpleasant things. That was one of the reasons apartheid stayed around so long.

The biggest difference between the two religions is that Islam hasn't had a reformation yet. They still have concepts of absolute power and a major crossover between political and religious leadership. But then they are a younger religion.

Unfortunately the unreformed Islam is a good target for political groups to pervert, and that is what has happened.

#140
Hello Bill

I believe that the majority of people in Britain did not want to go to war on Iraq - This is just another example of "Do as we say" attitude of the British government. We are living in a Democracy which doesn't listen to the people and has free speech watched by big brother with a dash of political correctness thrown in for good measure. A democracy in sheeps clothing more like.

I was totally against the war in Iraq. We have no right to be there and the sooner we pull our troops out the better. General Sir Richard Dannatt, the head of the army told the PM that we should pull out of Iraq - the Generals words fell on deaf ears.

This is actually in interesting new concept - if you can't convict somebody using the exisiting laws, just change the laws to suit what you would have preferred to have happened in the first place. It doesn't matter if you agree with the views of the BNP - this country used to allow freedom of speech. What is this called?

Glenn #45 et al. I do not understand why you moved to the UK if you are so disgusted by the "multiculti-ness". Even 30 years ago, people who looked could see what was coming, and no one with eyes could have missed it in the last 10 years. "Londonistan" and "Eurabia" may be newly coined phrases, but the problem is anything but novel. I would not now move to Normandy and expect to live in a Viking society.

bill, england #104. Runnymede, 15 June 1215 -- the Magna Carta.

Prinzofwhales #132 et al. You make some good points, and though it might be hard for readers to catch, you seem to consider Bill Clinton to be a criminal as well as the Bushes. Clinton did, after all take the side of the Albanian Muslims in Kosovo against the Serbian Christians (who fought with us against the Nazis) just to get M. Lewinsky off of the headlines.

But it looks like you believe all governments are evil and not to be trusted, which leaves us with Anarchy. Anarchy is always replaced with rule by the strongest, or Tyranny. I would be interested in constructive suggestions from you, now that you have expressed your hatred of all politicians of every stripe.

Holding out the hand of friendship and peace is really not a viable plan when you are dealing with Al Queda and the Iranians and the Wahabists who are determined to kill everyone not in their cults. They are not mad at international capitalism. They will kill you as soon as they would Bush or Blair.

Well, gee, I go back to the real world for a few hours and return to find that "Another Expat", his cluelessness exposed, has the nerve to suggest that he "touched a raw nerve" in a four line response which failed to adress his manifest error.
He even bullied poor Bobby into agreeing with his ludicrous comparison between Christian fundamentalists in the US and the sort of people who fly planes into buildings and blow up London tube trains. What a 'prat'.
Now, pay attention AE, and I'll use words of as few syllables as possible, just for you.
As a twice-described atheist, I am not much interested in comparative religion; Dawkins is right, religionists are sorely deluded and in their zeal to make believers out of the rest of us, they have caused astonishing death and destruction. But one more time: the deluded, sociopathic and homocidal Muslims are the only ones who are currently trying to blow us all up, and do so as at the behest of Koranic injunction.
Your posts display an arrogance and vapidity which would make you a fine candidate for New Labour. Perhaps you're a secret admirer of Gordon Brown
I know a good deal about the New American Century project, AE, and it was a fine gathering of the arrogant and ignorant. You would have felt right at home there.
I write 'was' because it was relegated to the back burner just four days ago by the triumph of the Democrats in the US and the return to positions of authority of grown-ups like Defence Secretary-designate Gates.
That's the great thing about error in democracies, AE, you get to correct them. And to vote them out. Not so in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria et al.
Stick to bullying poor Bobby, AE, you're out of your depth here.

GREAT verdict and they're right on the money.

bill, england #140. The United Nations "invited" any member nation to enforce the cease-fire agreement Saddam had repeatedly spat upon. I am very tired of people saying that the invasion of Iraq was illegal. It was authorized by the g--d----d UN. Say that the UN is worthless and even illegal, and I might agree.

If Saddam had wanted to stay in power, all he had to do was let UN inspectors do their job. God help us, but no one knows even recent history.

For the record, I am as disgusted with President Bush as anyone, mainly for leaving open our border with Mexico. But that does not make the poor, confused, maybe even stupid, ******* "evil". Hitler was evil. Churchill and FDR were flawed. There is a damned huge difference.

Didn't the Americans just vote a Muslim into the Congress?

Ironioc the number of ex pats i.e. immigrants who don't like immigration to a country they no longer live in.

Personally, I would not have prosecuted Nick Griffin for saying what he said any more than I would have prosecuted him for denying the holocaust, which he did.

It is better to have these things discussed in the open and then we can all see what a total moron he is.

I also think it would be better if people who start their sentences with I am not a racist but.. actually said well I am a racist.

Then we would all know where we stood.

stu51 162

I completely agree.

For a safe withdrawal of our troops, we need to reinforce them for the operation. We can't do that, we have none left.

The best thing is for the UN to take over Iraq, and facilitate the withdrawal. How we and the USA will compensate the Iraqis for all the damage that has been done I do not know.

#164 Joseph of Tennessee-- The Clintons are part of the Mena, Arkansas drugs, weapons and money laundering operation--and they were working with Bush41 on this. I still remember the ludicrous hearings on the dress, the sex, the real estate and everything else under the sun but the drugs, the weapons and the money laundering. When the "Pink Panzers"--as NSA veteran, Wayne Madsen, and others call the camarilla of perverts in power today--took over from Clinton, everything was covered up. It was the "Pink Panzer", Senator Jake Garn of Utah of S&L and BCCI notoriety that was primarily responsible for letting Clinton off the hook in the hearings.

The Clin'Toons were carrying out the first part of what the Cheney DoD had called for before the end of Bush41's administration: the movement of US troops from bases in Germany into the Balkans. The same pattern of prevarications and media lies about the 'Hitler of the Balkans' won the support of the American people for the Albanian drug lords just as the lies of the very same media won their support for the drug lords of Afghanistan and against the 'Hitler of Mesopotamia'.

al Qaeda is nothing more than a intelligence front and OBL nothing more than the incarnation of Orwell's Emmanuel Goldstein character and 9-11, a false-flag master work. The Wahabists were originally backed by the British and their craziness is the official cult of the Saudis--our good allies. As for the Iranians, they've had their democratic government overthrown in large part due to the false-flag terrorism of Kermit Roosevelt and his ilk. It was replaced by the Shah's despotism. The US then backed the rise of the CIA's failed assassin, Saddam Hussein and his launching of a war of aggression against Iran.

Iran is no threat to me, of course, I didn't jump up on the kitchen table and scream like a girl when the Bush-istas and Ollie North were selling fear of the Sandanistas and a RED DAWN type scenario

Joseph 167

I think you are in the minority in saying that the invasion of Iraq was not illegal.

Take a look at http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/l...
There is other information on this site, and there are other sites you will get by googling iraq war legality.

The very fact that Bush planned the invasion well beforehand as part of the neocon conspiracy, told a pack of lies to justify his action and knew what the effect of operations would be, makes him exceptionally evil in my book.

#165--Humanist--I wish you were right about the recent change at Defense and the other heads that are rumoured to be hanging merely by a tendon.

Hitler's liquidation of the Brown Shirt leadership didn't improve things a bit. Nudging the Neo-cons back into their rat holes at AEI, Heritage etc. is not going to change things much at all...save in tone.

The Democrats have partnered with Bush and support his policy of war and mayhem. They will not seek to overturn the Patriot Act or the Military Commissions Act or the rest of the enactments designed to gut the Constitution.

Of the Moslem suspects blamed for 9-11--none were listed on the manifest and a minimum of seven are alive and well. When I see alive and well suicide hijackers, I tend to discount the stories of their accusers. The stand down of our air defenses; the finding of University of Utah physicist, Dr. Jones, that a form of thermite, called "Thermate" was used on the huge central support columns of the WTC 1 and 2; as well as the close ties between the patsies and the US regime's secret police, indicate that the Official Fable is just that a "fable.

The insane conspiracy theory that flight-school failures, who despite an insane devotion to fundamentalism, go out and drink like fish in strip clubs before committing suicide, carrying out 9-11 would be funny if it were not so tragic.

9-11 was the 'psychological moment' that fixated the nation on war with the designated villains. Without it, war would have been impossible. The TIMES of India announced weeks before that we would hit Afghanistan. 3,000 Americans were murdered on 9-11 with the active complicity of the Bush Regime and its allies.

Russia

Why does a government want to change a law when some one is found not guilty in a court of law. If we have no rights to speak at a private function and be taken to court for what was said then we are living in a dictatorship. We have had 27 years of tory rule and it will continue when new tories are replaced by the old tories. The labour party no longer exists.The leader T Blair is on one of the longest ego trips in history.

Dick #169. He was a Black fellow (American born) raised as a Catholic, who converted to Islam as an adult. Not quite the same as the papers would make it sound. Probably influenced by the Nation of Islam (though I am not sure), which is more of a Black Separatist movement than a Jihaddist organization.

bill, england #171. So, you want the UN to take over in Iraq like they did in Kosovo, where the Muslims kill Christians and burn churches on a daily basis, while the "Peacekeepers" just look on? Or like in Lebanon, where the UN let Hezballah set-up missle launchers right next to the "Peacekeeper's" guard-shacks?

and #173. Most people used to believe the world was flat (some still do). Being in the majority in an ignorant populace does not make one correct.

Did or did not Saddam violate the cease-fire treaty from the first Gulf War? Did or did not the United Nations authorize "any member nation" to enforce the terms? Could or could not Saddam have stayed in power if he had allowed UN inspectors free access to weapons sites?

You know very well that the answers are: Yes, he did; Yes, it did; and Yes, he could have.

"Neocon" is a codeword for "Jews". Your arguments would have more validity if you just said "Jews" or "Zionists".

Believe it or not, the Pentagon has plans made for the invasion of the UK. In fact, these plans were formulated during, and regularly updated since, the Revolution (1776). There is no intention to do it, but making plans is what generals (or captains and majors and colonels who want to be generals) do. Despite the examples of Napoleon and Hitler, I assure you that in a file somewhere, the British have a plan for the invasion of Russia.

Prinzowhales #172. So, we agree President Clinton was a criminal, and we can agree that President Bush is a criminal at worst and incompetent at best. You only hate all the politicians th

176. Jock Tamson,
I'll bet i'm far more mongrel than you!!!!!! AAARRRFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(sorry for barking too loudly)
And as for the teacher's assistants, I'll bite every one of them, they're mine I tell you! MINE!

Is there anywhere in the world that the US has not made plans to invade?

My dogs are called Ralph and Rolf

189. We didn't start the fire. (Billy Joel)

#172 A fair question--I was one of the Conservatives who voted for Ralph Nader. I wanted Aaron Russo to win the Libertarian nomination--I would have voted for him instead. I didn't trust Badnarik to get out of the wars. I could not vote for the Constitution Party candidate because he wasn't on the ballot or eligible for write-in here in NC.

I like Ron Paul--the Republican establishment hates him. He's strong on Conservative and Libertarian principals. I'd vote for Aaron Russo--or Mr. Peroutka, the 2004 Constitution Party standard bearer.

I regard that scurvy crew of Democrats and Republicans that are mentioned as possible candidates with the same complete and utter contempt that I have for the Bushies and the Clin'Toons.

Incidentally, "Neo-con" is not a code word for Jews, it is more than likely synonomous with an extreme brand of Zionism found in the Likkud and their collaborationist forbears under Jabotinsky. Creatures like Bolton at the UN are neo-cons and I'd quite frankly like to know why so many of Jewish origin are associated with this vile and repugnant political philosophy that is mingled with the ghosts of Trotsky, Strauss and the Nazi jurist Karl Schmidt. We saw the same thing in the Communist Party in the United States and in the racial makeup of the Trotskyites who sailed with him with the blessings of Woodrow Wilson to knock our Russian ally out of World War I and the financing of the Kahns, I believe, the international banksters that are linked by marriage to Al Gore-- the second-generation step-and-fetch of American Communist agent of influence the late and unlamented Dr. Armand Hammer.

I generally use the term "Zio-Nazi" when referring to their support for Israeli expansionism, occupation and repression of Palestine, but prefer the term "Neo-Scum" when considering them from the standpoint of U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

Miss H, #184. Mad? Quite. One might even say royally p----d-off. "Where am I wrong on facts?", I ask.

The old saying is "Don't be afraid of the dog that is barking, be afraid of the one that is silent and goes directly for your b---s".

Jock Tamson, Scotland, Caledonia, Alba, #187. If a nation has a competent general staff, they have planned for all contingencies.

194. Or all possible continuation of expansion possibilities

197. there are no British values. The only values which have ever counted in Britain are English values which have been imposed on Scotland for 400 years (unless you count the years between 1066 and the union of the crowns).

A mere 9 years of Blair, Brown et al and you are already wetting your pillow - what a bunch of wimps. One thousand years of Norman conquest tolerated and 9 years of Blair makes you anti Scottish. Perhaps that should be anti-Scottish again as the reawakening of Englishness dawns.

#200 Gordon
I doubt AJ must be away out on the razzle tonight - he usually pops up for the 200 - even if he hasn't contributed ALL DAY!!!!

196. Jock Tamson,
Did I just imagine it or did Prinziwhales just admit to voting for one your dogs in the electon?? Spossible..
And as for US tourists leaving their money behind, I suspect they must be working for the "Company" or they wouldn't be that careless, not on Airstrip One anyway.
Am I alone or did posting 193 have two very confusticating last paragraphs?
198. CASEY PURVIS: all monotheistic religions have this interesting urge to apocalyptic happy endings, not just Islam, they all stem from the same delusional roots in the fertile crescent into luristan across to the Mediterranean, into the unsuspecting minds of Tutankamun's parents, just like a thought virus, very compelling but insubstantial upon examination. We are not alone, there are trinities, angels, conspiring demons, devils occupying my dogs illegally which is why they sleep on the sofa and leave their mongrel hairs behind .....
aye, conspiracies are ten a penny, and so too religious delusion. All religious people cannot be tarred with the same brush, some are genuinely kind and good folk, and believe the messages of peace and cooperative living. There are a minority of head cases in all walks of life. The human world is a muddy zone of crossed thoughts and beliefs, no easy neat boxes to shove people into, unless (on a serious note) you are a fascist, when boxes come with the belief system.

Joseph 183

Who else except the UN would you like to take over in Iraq or Kosovo or Lebanon after the place has been wrecked?

We all know what Saddam did or didn't do. Thing is, we had no business invading Iraq without good reason and regime change is not one.

As for your assertion that Neocon is code for Jews, it is interesting, I'll have to think about that. Maybe Israel really does run the USA.

I'm sure you're right when you say that everybody has plans to invade everybody else; be afraid.

206. radge dug
Well said Radge. You have a patient and concise measure to your posts that I find difficult to maintain with fascists, so I'm afraid I start to lace my contributions with sarcasm. Keep up the good writing, I'm wit you every step.

Rennie, #192. There is no point militarily or economically for the US to invade the UK, any more than it would make sense for the UK to invade Russia. That is my point, exactly. Plans are made, so that if a contingency arises that requires a plan, there is one in place for the initial reaction.

Prinzowhales, #193. Thanks for your clarifications. I, myself, used to be a fan of Ralph Nader. But I am afraid your anti-semitism affects your politics.

Israel is the only democracy in the middle-east. The territory that the "expansionist Zionists" took was in response to the attempted invasion by the neighboring Arab states, to create buffer zones between Israel and those who have sworn, and continue to swear, to drive the Jews into the sea.

And since Nader (a man of Lebanese extraction), and the Constiutional Party, etc., have no chance of being elected to anything, what other suggestions do you have for voting possibilities? At least the Brits have the unpalatable option of the BNP -- Americans have no viable choices at all, except to put extreme pressure on the Democrats or the Republicans to get with some kind of program. Saying that they are all criminals just punts the ball to the next generation.

bill, england, #204. We should have stayed out of Kosovo. We should have crushed all opposition in Iraq, like we did in Germany and Japan. and imposed a democratic constitution. We still could, and we still should. And we should have let Israel crush Hezballah. That we did not allow Israel to finish the job in Lebanon makes it clear that the US is ordering Israel around and not vice versa.

Personally, I believe we should have toppled the mullahs in Iran rather than the atheist in Iraq, but the invasion of Iraq was authorized by the UN, so that is what the wimps in Washington did.

79. Glenn - or any one, how do you get 7 degrees in one subject (or any for that case) and why? Furthermore, why would one think that possessing 7 degrees in Physics gives one any more authority to speak on social, political. philosophical or legal matters etc than my butler or gardner. Everyone on these forums have valid comments and points even the ones we may all disagree vehemently with.

#193 Jock--I was suggesting that "Empire" was the right answer for the "Corsican..." question, but I like your "Russia" answer--it is certainly a correct one as well.

Joseph 210

Nice to know that you agreed with Milosevic's murderous activity in Kosovo and that you would like to ramp up your slaughter in Iraq.

Germany and Japan were different, they were just wars, and we did what we had to do.

Israel retreated from Lebanon because they were losing against Hezbollah in spite of the USA's massive support. Next time Hezbollah will be ready with new longer range missiles, and the Israeli atrocities will be paid back and how.

I hope that you can get your act together and work out a new strategy for Iraq that will make amends for the damage done, and allow them to rebuild their shattered country in their own way.

I have just watched the Remembrance Service in the Albert Hall; I was bitterly ashamed of my government for sending our brave troops to die in the Middle East for no good reason.

No doubt there are many people in the USA who feel the same way; they are in the majority and they are right.

Since Blair, apparently appeared in the early 1990s from nowhere, suddenly progressed from a long haired guitar player to take over the leadership of the Labour Party and in to government, the rule of law has completely disintegrated.The Blair and Brown duet backed and financially supported by big business and former Tory dissidents have become more reprehensible, rotten to the core and made corruptness a vital component of the present day political scene in UK society.
Messiah Blair, Mr nice guy Brown and their slimy brown nosed politburo which is composed of many renegade former Communists and Militant members have governed the country as an elite oligarchy since 1997.
Parliamentry democracy has become practically non-existent and impotent, as the power and glory seekers Messiah Blair and his rather sham grinning impatient successor Brown, have assumed the devious role of an elected dictatorship.
Elected MPs have become totally irrelevant and an expensive burden to the tax payers. They have cost the country billions of £s and the lives off many young service perssonel in taking this country into five undeclared wars while at the same time hospitals sack staff, close hospitals and care homes for the elderly. WE HAVE PENSIONERS NOW FACING A WINTER OFF HIGH FUEL BILLS THEY CAN BARELY AFFORD. THE STEEP RISE IN FUEL PRICES
IS MAINLY DUE TO WARS BUSH AND BLAIR HAVE IRRESPONSIBLY TAKEN THIS COUNTRY INTO.
The wealthy Corporates behind Blair, Brown and their overpaid MPs who supported these wars won't have the problem of worrying about the price of fuel bills.
How much longer have the people of this country to suffer such a crowd off incompetent amateurs who are barely capable of running a xmas club?

#217 But the gracious government is talking about letting those with low incomes and their life's earnings tied up in their over-valued homes trade equity in those humble lodgings to 'help' with the property taxes. Isn't that nice of them? What more can you ask for?--Aside from the opportunity to die for HM's oil portfolio in Iraq and the drug lords in Afghanistan!

#215 Bill--While Milosevic was no peach, his actions in Kosovo were hardly extreme. The media, being no more honest then, than they are today built a case against the Serbs virtually out of whole cloth. The Serbs were betrayed by the West, their land stolen...Tel Aviv silent over the ethnic cleansing of Jews--not to mention other minorities including Turks, Gypsies, Serbs and others...while John Paul II slinks over to Israel make nice with the Zionists while the Ustashi win control in Croatia and Islamic Waffen SS elements came to the fore elsewhere.

Lets not forget, Bill Clinton allowed the CIAs al Qaeda shock troops to circumvent the UN embargo that the US was charged with enforcing...shades of our air transport of the al Qaeda fighters out of Afghanistan to safety...Much more easy for us to listen to a 'made in Langley' al CIAda tape threatening us with everything but the kitchen sink than to watch how they act toward al CIAda in the real world.

The Serbs acted with great restraint in Kosovo and had support among the Albanian community as well. The KLA was set on taking the province from the Serbs--who made the terrible error of letting them into the province in peace. THAT is what happens when you neglect your borders!

OFFS. (google that one). Point one. The verdict and the direction from the reporter were absolutely correct. The charge was "incitement" The meeting was a bnp meeting. You can't "incite" somone who already agrees with you. It was a stupid charge on that basis alone. It was based on a secret filming which makes the charge even dafter. The only way to prove "incite" is that the speech was meant to change members not in the group to change thier behaviour. So the members of the public had to be present and their behaviour was expected to change as a result. It is not neccessary to show that it had changed. Just that it was expected to change it. No menbers of the public who were not present and had their behaviour changed were presented by the prosecution and therefore there was no case in law to be answered. Acquital is the only correct result in those circumstances. The beeb would have done a better pulic servuce towards the community by just taping a bunch of idiotic numpties trying to create a semi coherent pile of sound bytes and showing the world that if this bunch of numpties ever got even a toe hold on power the eejits who let them in would be the first ones in the sonnderlager cos they may viote them out.

viote.... does that random vowel mean more souls are condemned? Yes, ah sad, but we must give the people what they want.. find another 10,000 guilty. Find them for me now!

Rennie, #214. One of the things that truly began the change in my world view, from that of a Fabian Socialist to a Nationalist-Conservative, was the Iranian Revolution (the final straw was the treason of Bill Clinton selling rocket technology to the Communist Chinese over the objections of his Secretary of State).

I, and many of my friends in College, protested against the Shah. Due to our pressure, President Carter forced the abdication of the Shah and the institution of the "Islamic Republic". At which point, the Iranian revolutionaries invaded the US embassy (in violation of all international law and custom) and declared the US (which had just brought their Ayatollah back from France) the "Great Satan". I took this personally.

I then learned that, no, they do not just want to be left alone and be allowed to just get along -- these people really do want to take over the world. Sane people think megalomaniacs are harmless nuts. That is what Chamberlain thought about Hitler. Now Ahmenidenijihad is on the brink of nuclear capability, and people are blaming the US (and Tony Blair) for the World War that has been declared by the Muslims.

The Island Fortress of Britain learned a few years back that the ocean is not an impenetrable defense. But even after 9-11, there are Americans who believe that it is.

If you have read these posts, you know that some well meaning, and seemingly intelligent people, believe that the US government was responsible for the destruction of the World Trade Center. There is really no talking to such madness.

Did FDR know that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor? It is possible. But I have never heard any hater of Roosevelt claim that he ordered the attack. These are indeed perilous times, when people's hatred of political opponents will lead them to ignore the simple fact that there really are people trying to kill them.

The BNP may be racists. I don't kno

Oh They Got Off.
So the Laws,must be wrong?
Far Right !!! or Just Factual,Sensible etc etc.

I woud like to predict a "10" times increase in the
percentage of a national vote. Well deserved.

This is a typical political response, condem first then listen for the public reaction, and change opinion as and when necessary, if not needed then claim piously that we told you so, it is what's called sitting on the fence, and this from the potential Prime Minister, I would not vote for this shower of mindless, self serving, morons even if the only alternative was the reincarnation of Stalin. And I'm (or was) a tory!!!!!
Where has the right of free speech gone?.

This is a typical political response, condem first then listen for the public reaction, and change opinion as and when necessary, if not needed then claim piously that we told you so, it is what's called sitting on the fence, and this from the potential Prime Minister, I would not vote for this shower of mindless, self serving, morons even if the only alternative was the reincarnation of Stalin. And I'm (or was) a tory!!!!!
Where has the right of free speech gone?.

I've been poking fun at some stuff on the wire. Tnis from here on in is a serious point. I'm reading a lot of stuff in the press about jihad islamic extremist's terrorist threats. Then I'm looking at the German press, intelligence reports. Political party manifestos. If anybody want's to know what scares me. I think that if I was a law abiding muslim, probably second or third generation as the majority are now. I would have a clear understanding of how a German Jew would have felt in 1928. If anybody want's to contradict this please note I chose a specific date 1928. At this point in history there was no effective legislation but a number of parties were moving in this direction and many newspapers were proposing this as the obvious solution to the problem. I'm also looking at the change in the right's of German citizen's and the changes in th e laws enacted about this time and we are doing the same things in order to acheive the same solutions. Stop this now, we have been down this road once before. If it's your body then go ahead. I'm not going and as you belive in your infalibility then go ahead. I'll n od to you on the gibbet, thanks for trying

#216 Joseph--So all this UN nonsense about only defensive wars being legitimate and no territorial gains justified from war simply doesn't matter? As well as the fact that the Zionist state expanded well beyond the original partition lines from the beginning. If the UN Charter can be ignored by Israel, then certainly you can't expect any other nation to trouble itself with the Charter.

The Iranian president is probably the sanest head of state in the Middle East--including Israel. His words have been mis-translated and taken out of context by the American media. We still remember the nonsense about Iraq being only a short way from a nuclear device and the invasion revealed what a lie that was. If they were so close, then it would have been unnecessary to forge the Niger- Yellowcake document or for Judith Miller and the embezzler Chalabi to confabulate all the tales of Iraqi WMDS.

The Torah True Jews are hardly "self hating". They hold true to the Torah but do not heed the words of Babylon's Talmud.

Testing

Do you really want to know what scares me about the 7/7 bombings. It's this.. Why use suicide bombers. It was on the London transport infrastructure. You don't need a suicide bomber to deliver the payload. Ask PIRA, I'll bet Al'quida did. Then look at the bus explosian vs the tube bombs. He was on the bus, unhook the bag take the next stop and then he can do it again.. Note that the explosions took place within a limited time space and then consider if those whom carried the munitions knew when they were to be detonated. Or were deliberately told the times of detonation were different from thos programmed into the device. Why use a suicide bomber when just kicking a case behind a seat would get you the samne effect and let your man have a second go

I just want to know when white people say anything about other races it is called racisism. But when muslims condem the western world (even when they live here and claim all the social benefits they can, while they don't even intigrate into to society) it is just classed as their right to free speech and their beliefs.
You are going to notice that the BNP will get more votes every year because ordinary people are SICK of being treated like second class citizens in their own country.
God we are not even allowed to say Merry Christmas any more.
As has been stated on a few posts who knows what hatred is getting spewed in the mosques.
Most of the people who went to the mosques as the terrorists knew they were going to do it. But. did they go to the police.

And Israel does not need the Imprimatur of the UN to exist.

I am saddened to read the posts from Scottish people who refer to me belonging to a Bastard race. I am well aware that we were invaded by Vikings Danes Normans etc hundreds of years ago and we are the product of mixed European races. I was recently called "a man of a bastard race" from an Irish neighbour, which was quite suprising as we were having a friendly chat at the time.

Being English isn't all it made out to be. I cannot legally claim to be English because there is no English parliament, and therefore politically I cannot legally claim to be English. England exists only geographically not politically. It was Scotland who gained England with James VI of Scotland becoming James I of England and thereby the Act of Union was formed and England lost its identity right up to this day. It makes the famous quote "England Expects" rather pathetic doesn't it.

I am called a b****** by my neighbouring countries even though I have great respect for Scotland Wales and Ireland, now it is apparent that my respect isn't worth a toss. I have some Scottish Irish and Welsh friends, but now I wonder what they really think of my nationality.

To top it all I have been called White trash and other racial slurs by certain Asian people here in England. I live in a country where I have no rights to be called English, called a bastard by neighbouring countries, and led by a government which doesn't listen to the English public, so what are the benefits of being English? - None!

I used to be proud to be English until I recently realised that being English isn't worth a toss. I am tempted to pack my bags and bugger off to another country away from all this madness of the UK. I'm serious, I might as well be a second class citizen in another country as I am here in England, I believe I will probably be better treat too. Now I know why so many of my English friends have already emigrated.
Let the muslims have England - I'm off - - Spain, Australia or New Zeal

Stu51, #235. Very sad post. I would invite you to the US -- we could certainly use a few English b******* to move here. But the more you know your ancestry, the more likely you will be called "White Trash" by real mongrels who do not even know who their fathers are.

And the immigration officials will not let white people come -- only Ethiopians and poor illiterate Mexican Indians that the Conquistadors have thrown out of their homes.

Spain will be reconquered by the Muslims soon, so that's not much of a choice. Serves them right after what they did to Mexico.

I would suggest Australia. I would go there myself if it wasn't so damned hot (the spiders never die, they just get bigger). But there's good beer and supermodels just waiting for you to discover them.

New Zealand might be cool, if you're into wicked tattoos.

But, really, try to hang on. England needs you, even if she doesn't know it. And we'll all be dead soon, anyway.

Valhalla is open to Angles and Saxons as well as Normans and Danes, and even Celts, if they die as warriors.

RE stu 51 235, there is no place to run; I have been looking since around year 2000 spending a good deal of time in Southern Europe which is over-run with Africans and this year I noted something new in the South of France: bus loads of Asians. Aparantly the third world thinks the post colonial era is the era of third world colonization of the world. To that extent the migrants are milking the post-colonial Western self-hatred syndrome for all it is worth. In America their excuse is that "we" did it to the Indians though it is obvious that they have no trouble at all doing "it" to the indians themselves or anyone else in thier path of take from the West anything they can get. Immigrants are not interested in our family histories, our local histories and cultures, our traditions and customs and least of all our political history. They are interested in a single thing only, which is, "what's in it for me." Western cultural and architectural history can all be bulldozed into an asphault parking lot for another new metal and concrete block Wal-mart where they can fill up thier gaz guzzling SUVS with trash made by slaves in the old country (over which there is no protest). It is becoming very clear that the masses of the world are not as sophisticated as we presumed them to be and that has profound implications for our notions of the educability of the mass and its capacity for self-governing. All indicators suggest that the masses are indeed fascist. Globalism is a fascist movement world-wide. There is no place to run or hide. Intelligence and reason are rarities in the world today; changing locations does not change a thing.

Stu51 You made the first mistake in attempting to have a sane conversation with an Irishman.

They are as big a bastard race as any other. It's just that they are usually too drunk on their own self love to see this clearly.

They forget that they regularly raided England for slaves before the Norman invasion of Britain, and St Patrisk was brought to their country in chains. Many of the women who were enslaved were used to breed children, so a great number of the "Irish" are as mixed in bloodline as anyone else is.

I am sick of them pretending that they populated Scotland. THEY DID NOT!

#240

Your take on the origin of the word hillbilly is complete tripe !!

Stu51, no one cares if you're English or not or that the English are already a mixed race. Scots are mixed too. I thought that it was obvious that joining a racist organisation that wants a 'white Britain' is at odds with all this. FT BNP.

I Scots not British, like most Scots these days. A growing number want independence. This dosen't mean hatred towards the English. Sure there's white trash here too but bigotry should always be opposed. Haven't we learnt the lessons of the past.

246. David Macintosh
Silly man! It's only C. 150 yrs ago when women in this country were expected to be covered head to toe in unrevealing clothing., veils and/or head coverings were expected, language tightly governed by kirk and social control, ideas restricted by the state, and lower class activism likely to end on a militiaman's bayonet, or with transportation. Christians have a long history of "offendibility" and persecution of dissent, particularly of atheists.

#247 BGW
Yes. That was then, this is now. It's called progress. Women in Britain actually are allowed to choose what to wear - they have stopped being told what to do by their menfolks!

It seems absurd that the Government should be contemplating further laws just because these individuals were found not to be in breach of an existing law under which they were prosecuted.
I read that they should have been charged for a religious intolerance offence, rather than a racially motivated one.
It would appear that existing laws are sufficient, if they are applied correctly. Our freedoms are being systematically eroded by the introduction of new laws,and we should all be concerned by this trend.

#252. (Redkite) One day the political parties will want to woo those new Muslim voters and will give in to there demands, the way this Government is acting that process is underway.
It looks like vote SNP in Scotland and BNP in England before the indigenous population is in the minority.

At Last, common sense prevails. Nick Griffin is only saying what so many of us think but don't have the guts to say.

254, Musicman, London.

There is no doubt that what you say is true, and the sooner our elected politicians pay similar attention to the Islamic terror being waged against us, the better it will be for all of us - including Moslems.
The Government will ignore the current situation at its peril, as the disenchanted electorate may transfer their allegiances to political parties prepared to confront the issues of our security in a more robust manner.

The law of the land must be above any political pursuason or slant or religious or commercial pressure groups. The British legal system has arisen after centuries of refinement by her peoples and exists independent of governments because we live in a democracy which was fought hard for to gain and keep. Freedom of speech is the backbone of democracy and is our birthright as a nation of a one united country. Whether you like these peope or their political or social comments is irrelevant, they have a right to speak their mind and on this basis alone this was a just and correct decision by the court. I would rather listen to people whose opinions I do not agree with than it all be silenced along with the supression of information that goes hand in hand with societies that believe repression and suppression and keeping people in the dark away from the truth will control the population. Listen to the people you do not like or agree with and feel pride that you are still able to speak your mind and hear what people think and believe in and vote the way of your conscience which is YOUR freedom. I for one would certainly not vote for any party that would want to change the law that prevents freedom of speech.

Chairman Gordon: What are you on, did you really read comment #244.

Radge #244 Does not come across immature, In fact want he speaks make perficy sence.

It's possible to belive in Scottish Indenpedence without having any maguor resent to other natonalitys (including English) and Ethincs (wither it's skin tone or relgion).
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In the other hand the BNP are rasist to the core and I can't help but feel that maybe the B stands for Bigot or maybe they should change their name to the BBNP, because they seem really prodoud of tnhe Biggited behavour.

Noone should be proud of their low level of tolerence or narrow mindeness.
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Never confuse the SNP(or other Scot Nats) to the BNP as the two are oppsites.

Hey! guys, help me out here, i'm a little bit confused about the BNP. What type of people are they against. Who do they want kick out of thier countries ? Who do they hate, do they only hate the Moslems or : 1 only, 1 and 2, or All 3, who have dark skins ?

1)Pakistani/Bengali
2)Indians/Asians
3)African/Caribbean/Jamaicans.

For instance can a black guy join the BNP?

I was just wondering what would happend to hundrends of thousands of white women who are married to black folks, if they were kicked out of UK.

211- English Patriot.

Come on now!. You'll have to do better than that. You must know that a "Jock" is a Scot, and the question was about crossing a Muslim with an English person.
Perhaps your answer should have been: "A Pom in a frock".

261 Binnie.

Probably the same as would happen to white men who are married to Black women, but I don't know what that might be!.

261 Binnie.

It's getting late and it's showing!.
I meant to say; "The same as would happen to Black women who are married to white men".

238 Graham Casey, Australia.

The Australian Immigration control system has much to commend it and the UK Government would do well to copy it.

The BNP do not want any non whites in their party because they are not welcome, if you have a black or asian partner you are not welcome. If you have mixed race children or grandchildren then do not bring them with you to meetings....it is on their website and these are the words of Nick Griffin. It is not about multi culturalism folks it is pure out and out racism.....they do not want white blood diluted. This is the suited side of the National Front, the suits are upfront for the cameras and the skinheads growling in the background. They even have the gall to have some crap about DNA and how blacks are more prone to illness and certain diseases than whites on their website....and this is supposed to be just politics......nope dont think so.

15 John S, you obviously don't know much about the Koran or Islam. Try reading it sometime or speaking to any of the millions of moderate Moslems to see just how wrong you are.

#270 try these websites, these use verses from the Koran which all Muslims believe is the word of God.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Quran.htm

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-questions.htm

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/index.html

Off course there are millions of moderate Muslims but they all believe that the Koran is the word of God and if they do not follow the words contained within the Koran then that holy book says they are no longer Muslim.

BGW. Why do just attack others with your pompous ramblings? You only seem to offer any information when correcting others. Schoolboy bighead bully.

The right to free speech is just that ... who do the politicians think they are to attack our rights to freedom of speech just because it might cause them a little embarrassment ... although not a BNP (or political party) supporter, they have the right to their views and the right to express them without the Government choosing what those views might or might not be.

Bring on a republic of Great Britain ... minus political parties and Europe ... with the right to free speech and the ability to lock the criminal elements up without the taxpayer being able to fund cases against the violation of their rights (cold turkey cases pending) from the human rights legislation of Europe.

Russell #111
How the hell can the Christian Bible preach against Islam - even the new testamant was written and finished 500 years before the paedphile prophet rode his camel out of the desert.
#150 Why bother to translate from Gaelic - your socialist ravings would probably sound more sensible in a resuscitated dead language
Doreen #268 Why would you want to go to meetings of people you obviously don't agree with

Gosh, I have had all my emails removed along with a few other contributors. A bricklayer with 8 degrees, hmmmmm... yeah, ok, whatever! Anyway, Gordon Brown ever an opportunist tries to circumvent natural justice by suggesting the law should be changed; how unjust to all those in Britain who have to accept the law when it suits Brown and his ilk and then when the law benefits them, some prat suggests it should be changed to ensure that whites don't ever have free speech ; what an a*** licker just to appease the Muslims and get their support in his attempts to become PM ; it won't happen, you are destined for the back benches chum, ask Cherrie, she seems to know all about it. Again congratulations to BNP a legal entity in the UK and recognised as such by the Law Courts in the UK. The country needs the right more than ever now or we will all be persecuted but this time, it will be genuine.

My, my, what a touchy lot out there. So many postings removed. I remember reading through them on Sat/Sun and thought they were all pretty harmless.

Power of the press must be overrun by those narrow minded busybodies who frequent Broon's Emporium.

To the Scotsman, the comments are the best thing about your paper. Please try to be be more open minded and less inclined to censorship in what is left of freedom of speech and democracy in this country (Scotland).

I am reposting this because it is a response to a post that is still up. And when the editor decides to remove it again, I respectfully ask him to e-mail me and tell me exactly what was inappropriate -- expressing my opinion of the UN, or describing my racial mongrelity, or repeating the insanity of the President of Iran?

Prinzowhales, #227. Everything that the UN says is nonsense.

Truly Orthodox, Hasidic Jews were against the founding of a Jewish State until the coming of the Messiah. While we may admire their religious purity, they were the ones that obediently got on the trains to Auschwitz -- not the ones who held out for weeks with only small arms in the Warsaw ghetto against Nazi panzers.

I am not a Jew -- I am by race Scot and Norman (with a great-grandfather who was Creek Indian). My people have been on both the winning and the losing sides in many wars. I can go with the flow, but I would still rather not be conquered, by Arabs, Mexicans, or anyone else.

When it comes to politics, I am an atheist.

The Iranian President has said in Stern, which interview I read in English and German, (sorry, I cannot yet translate Persian) that he does not believe that there is any proof of the Holocaust, and if it did happen, the Jews should be given a state in Germany. That actually is a sane statement, up to a point, I guess. Except, of course, that the Jews had a state for a couple of thousand years, until the Romans decided to disperse them. So, the Romans should give them a state from the territory of the Empire -- and guess what, that includes the property now known as Israel, where those pesky Jews started from.

He, Ahmenidenijihad (or however the hell one spells it in Latin letters), has also said in numerous pronouncements that he believes that he is sent to earth to start the final war that will pave the way for the 13th Imam, the Mahdi, the Shiite Messiah. Again, as I do not claim to be able to translate his P

#275 and # 276 :- 69 out of 275 that is 25% of the postings were removed, nuff said.

277. Joseph, Clinton, Tennessee - What actually is your point that you invite others to challenge in this thread? You may be profound however it is not clear to me. Also who was kid who fell into a well 1000 years ago?

Heimdall, #279. I was answering bill, england, #140, et al., that say the war in Iraq is illegal. I was against going into Iraq, but it really irks me when the lovers of the UN say it was illegal.

The kid that fell in the well was the 12th Imam of the Shiites. The Iranian President believes he will come out of the well once the "faithful" have started Armegeddon.

difficult to believe that the free press would be so strongly censored ... or is it !!!

280. Joseph, Clinton, Tennessee - Thanks for the courtesy or your explanation. I did not know the story of the boy that fell in the well. If the war is/was illegal sooner or later some smart lawyer will pursue this to its conclusion. What I did not like was the slow weaving of lies and contradictions offered as truths and as the same definitive versions that our premier (UK) insisted on issuing and actually believing that the people of this country believed him. The real problem though is that the "Queen's Opposition" that we are constitutionally allowed and promised never materialised. With a genuine opposition in existance this weak PM would never be able to stay in power.

John S, Rocabarraigh and Reiver, Edinburgh - In my opinion you could have avoided being censored if you recognised the current laws that everybody including newspapers have to abide by and work within them. If you had rephrased these statements with this in mind you would have still got your point across and maybe even gathered a decent debate on the subjects.

283 above. You are right of course technically but the comments prove conclusively that other religions that is the w****** who plan bombings and actually do it are able to spill out all knids of venom against Scottish and English indigenous populations whilst we are censored even by the press. All we have done is to express our disgust and hatred for those extremists ; these people who were never invited by us to the UK in the first place and are now the enemy within. The comments suggest that in addition to those three racist bastards who will get their come uppance in prison, their relatives and supporters who have no shame will see that white people have had enough and are starting to bite back and not prepared to be bullied by that lot of halfwit cowards who can only attack people mob handed. The UK was a decent and safe place to live 40 years ago and it is unhelpful to have MPs like Brown moving the goal posts so that free speech is only offered to other groups and not white people. Free speech for everyone in Britain.