Here's a saying for you Rummy

Good Ridance to bad rubbish.

You can thank the rotten corrupt system you've been part of your whole working life that your not being brought up on charges of mass murder and treason.
And I hope whatever God you believe in has marked your card.

I didn't mind Rumsfeld. Bush and Cheney are the ones that should face some sort of international war crimes court. They're a disgrace to humanity. Bush is a total brainless disaster of a president. He should be remembered as a pea-brain non-entity who made it because of connections. Thank you Daddy Bush.

Maybe at the next election we'll get a president with a brain. Hillary Clinton is mentioned a lot but if she runs I'll vote against the Democrats for the first time. John Edwards is my choice - intelligent, from the South, and, sadly, as it is important to much of the electorate, a good looking bloke.

So Rumsfeld the war criminal walks away free?

What sort of system do you folks have in the USA?

The guy who sold WMDs to Saddam, conspired with Taliban et al, led the USA in two illegal invasions in Afghanistn and Iraq and was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and thousands of US troops?

I suppose in due course the other creatures - Bush and his neocons - will take their places in the USA halls of fame, together with our very own traitor Blair.

This man has been war mongering for as long as Sadam, so why does he walk free ?

Good Riddance
And let us hope the rest of the happy bunch will follow (Chaney, ugly Rice) and of course the IDIOT IN CHIEF pea brain himself George Bush

Rumsfeld simply lives up to his name - "bombed field" in German !

He is the US version of Solobodan (wrong spelling I know) and should be on trial as per Sharon et al.

There is a God.

The Saviour of Western Civilisasion..Donny Rummy.. is Dead.. we will miss him sorely
God Save the Queen

Guy should be indicted for war crimes.

I have to agree with all the above posters, except #9. If there was a god, he would have zapped Bush and every other war criminal by now.

Anyway, it is not too late. If Rumsfeld steps foot outside of America, he is liable to be charged, somewhere, as a war criminal. The same applies to Bush himself, as well as the rest of the rotten crew around him.

That is probably why Blair is running off to America when he gets the boot, as he knows he'll be safe from war crimes charges there.

Good riddance, now for Bush and Blair!

The Unknown.

'As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know.' (DR 2002)

I shall miss his wit and eloquence! Looks like Bush has riddified him of his officification.

Nine years and over half a million lives too late!

Beware of these born again Christian and all religious extremists regardless of origin. Monotheism has been the greatest cause of misery in the world since its inception some 5,000 years ago.

America must get rid of Bush and the rest of motley crew. Then they must return to the ideas set down by the founders – NO Religion in politics.

Ok, so everyone has celebrated the long awaited "moving" of Rummy. But who is in his place? That's right, another crony, another one of Daddy's friends.

Says it all about this regime doesnt it.

While Rumsfeld's resignation is welcomed (and I agree that the Democrats should be insisting that he should not have immunity from prosecution when the whole truthy about Iraq surfaces), the real architect of the Iraq strategy within the US Defence Department was Rumsfeld's then Deputy, Paul Wolfowitz. Sadly, this low-life is now President of the World Bank, and so now out of reach of reprisals.

Also be warned that Rumsfeld's nominated replacement, Robert Gates, is hardly an improvement. This is the man who, during the last days of the Carter Presidency, negotiated with the Tehran regime to ensure that they DIDN'T release the American hostages then held in Iran, so that the incoming Reagan Administration could get the credit for the eventual release; and as part of the deal arranged to supply the Iranian mullahs with up-to-date Anerican weaponry.

Now lets watch bLiar distance himself...

If there is a God bLiar has to be next along with the guy he has brownosed all along through this terrible time in our history, and I hope their God will forgive them cos I never will......

‘74-year-old multimillionaire’ – Yes the question is how? Because he has made a fortune in company shares with contracts in Iraq & Afghanistan.
‘The president said: "Well, there's certainly going to be new leadership at the Pentagon." Yes which means new leadership full stop, when is Bush resigning for this new leadership at the White House.
‘Iraq currently costs the US about $8 billion a month.’ What does it cost the UK and with other overseas conflicts and famine that the UK Government supports?

THE SAME PLEASE FOR BLAIR,BROWN,HOON,JACKSON,LOUDEN,IRVINE

The IMAGE that the people have won is broadcast near and far. The Republicans chastised by losing the House, losing the Senate and Rumsfeld stepping down as well.

But will they implement the North American Union that the Americans oppose? Will they continue the war that the Americans oppose? Will they continue the currency deals that over-value the dollar to the detriment of most Americans?

They will continue the agenda of the people that rule. And as they do elements of the media will demonize the democrats and build momentum for Republicans to return - at which time it will again be the Republicans' turn to implement the agneda.

The prominent politicians in BOTH PARTIES are puppets of the ones who rule. The media is their tool as well.

Deception is their friend.

Poor poor Rumsfeld, he retired as a billionaire. It just looks like a huge sacrifice, it's not. But thanks to the media Rumsfeld seems a martyr to the republicans and huge victory for the democrats. I have to admit Americans never get sick of reality shows - like their politics.

This evil man, along with Cheney has been involved in destabilising the middle east for 30 odd years now. When John Pilger researched the events in Afghanistan prior to the Soviet invasion, it was these 2 names who kept cropping up in connection with.... oil. Thus a democratic and stable Afgan government was destabised and we know the rest.

Blair, Straw and the rest need to pay too for their complicity in the war crimes against Iraq. We can start by turfing out Labour at the Holyrood elections next year.

Big Mistake to fire .. the brains behind the death of 600 000 + People.... how many other people are so gifted.

On Tuesday the American people voted to surrender. The terrorists won. They beat us like a drum. That is not to say that they didn’t have their fellow travelers in the US media. That is not to say that the Democrat Party was not willing and eager to make the best of the opportunity presented. And that is not to say that Bush administration did not play their hand poorly. But the fact is on Tuesday the American people voted to surrender.

With both the House and Senate in Democrat control it is a certainty that no more funding will be forthcoming for the war. Troop withdrawal will start early next year. And no soldier wants to be the last to die in a lost war. In fact, it would be unfair to ask for a soldier to die for a cause that the American public does not support. Most likely the troops be withdrawn now to safe areas such as the Green Zone or Kurdistan. And surely, surely, no new troops will be sent in under any circumstances.

What happens in the future to Israel as a result if this debacle is unknowable. How America's broader interests are harmed is unclear. How will an American government reacts to situations in Europe that grow out of a growing Moslem population? The American public has spoken. And they have said NO MORE. Gentle reader, I would suggest that you are on your own. Thank you Tony Blair, but it was a nasty job poorly done. Europe can deal with Islamo-Fascism on your own terms. But we've been there, done that and got the t-shirt. Cheers.

In a league table I'd put Rumsfeld somewhere between Pinochet and Pol Pot.

We are harbouring war criminals and some of them are still in charge! I only look forward to the day when maybe, just maybe, they will be indicted for their crimes. Unfortunately Rummy will likely be long gone by then.

There were things going on in the U.S. long before the recent crises in the Middle East, and most of it had to do with a decline in cultural values that was (and is) despised by a large segment of the nation's core voters. The Republicans gained control of Congress in 1994 in President Clinton's first mid-term election, and after railing on Republicans about how many seats they were going to lose for not supporting President Clinton's agenda on socialized health care and draconian crime control. The media predicted wrongly back in '94, and the GOP took control of Congress for the first time in half a century.

This time, the mainstream media got their prediction right, but their reasoning is too simplified. Just as Americans don't get to hear what is really going on abroad (I'm talking issues here), Scots don't get the full story from their own media, and certainly won't get it from the American media either. One must be a bit of a scientist to blow the chaff from the grain. If it was all about the war in Iraq, then a "blue" state like Connecticut would have elected the anti-war Democrat candidate, instead of the pro-war, very-liberal, incumbant Senator Joe Lieberman, who had to run as an independent because he was defeated by the Dems in their own primary.

The war issue defeated many Republican candidates here in Maryland, even down to the level of county candidates. (A falling tide drops all boats.) Many truly good public servants paid the price for George Bush, but the biggest reason was not the war in Iraq. In some places, this might be true, but in general, it is because conservatives stayed home. The GOP proved itself no different from any liberal party -- in general results -- and a broad brush painted them all. I blame the U.S. Senate Republicans more than anything else, but in the U.S., in any election year, only 1/3rd of them can be turned out, whereas 100% of Representatives can be. The non-voting conservatives took veng

Sam, I believe you are misreading the result. The Democrats had a deliberate policy of fielding moderate and conservative candidates in those areas that they were targeting. This is no liberal victory, but a victory for the center. Incompetence is the objection to the war. If Rumsfeld had sent enough troops in in the first place, we would be over and out by now.

It never ceases to amaze me how lefties cared not at all about all the people Saddam Hussein killed. Perhaps the Iraqis would like to have him back. That could be arranged.

I agree the anti-Europeanism here is not going to abate. We have done plenty for the Western European allies and they have done nothing for us. They are weak sisters in controlling Islamist terrorists and are a conduit for them into our country. Only brie-eating liberals, a tiny minority, give a fig anymore what they think of us. Europeans also do not understand what happened here the other day, any more than we understand them (not that most of us care).

I doubt whether there will be any change in US foreign policy much.
He was merely a pawn in the bigger game.

The resignation of Rumsfeld is simply eyewash. He is being replaced with a piece of dung--Gates. The Gates of Iran-Contra.

The election was a disappointment on many levels. Colonel Bob Bowman, who was going to re-open the 9-11 investigations was narrowly defeated. Running as a Democrat, he received scant support from the pro-cover-up, pro-war campaign directorate of the Corporate Borg's left-hand--the Democratic Party.

Lieberman who lost the Democratic primary was returned to the Senate as an 'Independent'. The 'anti-war' Democrat who lost, as I understand his position, supported withdrawal from Iraq and war with Iran. Lieberman supports both the current war and the prospective war against Iran.

In my district, I had a choice between a wishy-washy 'liberal' who supported the war on all meaningfull legislation and voted for meaningless resolutions against the war and a conservative who had never been in politics but at least had 30 years in the military and might at least do something more for the troops.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars, Wayne Madsen, noted supported two chicken hawks over Tammy Duckworth, a double amputee from the war and the Marine who ran and narrowly against Senator 'Macaca' Allen in Virginia. The VFW leadership have shown themselves to be little short of freakin' Nazis who care little for the veterans whose care under the Bush regime has been little short of scandalous.

Pelosi, the prospective new Speaker, wants to 'partner' with the Bush regime and has already announced that any move to impeachment will be blocked. The War Whores have simply put on a new coat of paint and their Corporate pimps will proceed as before.

"Causalty"? Maybe, but it seems a slight to every other US Secretary of Defense, none of whom served as long, even in peacetime. Perhaps Rumsfeld's obit should also reflect the hearts and minds of the soldiers who have continually re-enlisted under his leadership.

Crack-brained Americans worry about chimeras-- "Islamo-fascism" seems to be the latest in a series of bugaboos coming along behind that cavalcade of nonsense...'They hate us for our freedom'....'If we don't fight them there we'll have to fight them here...' etc.

These same Americans ignore the fact that we were lied into the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died under American rule, these fanatics contend that we are there to help...Reminds me of the line from one of the Hannibal Lector movies..."When he hears the rabbit screamin', the fox, he comes a runnin'..........but not to help." Was the removal of our former ally, Saddam, really worth the lives of hundreds of thousands of human beings? On this the animals of the Bush regime agree with the animals of the Clinton regime...Madelein Albright, Clinton's Secretary of State, when asked if sanctions were worth the death of tens of thousands of Iraqi children...she affirmed that it was. Bush can certainly 'partner' with Lieberman, Albright Democrats who have taken the party of Jefferson and Jackson right into the gutter.

It is obvious, to all but the most obtuse, freedom-hating supporters of the Bush regime that we are serving no one but the interests of the corporate state, the zionists and the drug dealers in our wars in Asia.

Everyone above is right to a degree. I hope impeachment charges begin on Bush,and I hope Rummy, Chaney and others are charged with war crimes.
My only hope is the US returns to cultural values. But- like Scotland the home of my parents and ancestry, immigration takes its toll. Sociopathic behaviors are rampent with the culture today. Lack of values, parents that have a firm grip. Kids today need a role model and lots of TLC.

This event will, I guess, mark the point where all pretence about "winning" the war will stop. All talk from now will centre on withdrawal (however it is eventually framed) and hopefully analysing what post-Iraq will look like.
No-one outside of the US/UK governments can view our withdrawal as anything other than a reflection of reality; that is we are now incapable of creating the kind of Iraq which was envisaged by Bush/Blair and that our military will only suffer continuing casualties without being able to destroy those who are attacking it.
We will leave with the insurgency in the ascendent, growing more powerful as our troops leave.
What on earth is going to happen in that region after that? What will the new alliance of Iran/Labanon/Syria do - put pressure on the "liberal" Arab states?, supply better rockets to Hezbollah? Enthuse Turkey and Jordan about the glories of Islamic fundamentalism?
George, Tony - thanks a lot boys.

So Rumsfeld's gone at last, all you can say is good riddance. He should have lost his job after the incompetant failings of 9/11 first came to light but he managed to hang on to botch up the Iraq aftermath too.
Rumsfeld must be the worst defence secretary ever to hold office. The only positive thing that one can say is thank God he never had such influence during the height of the Cold War else we would be around just now discussing his incompetance.

for what? what was the war crime?

war is an action that most of the general public does not possess the stomach for.

the prosecution of the war... the act of making war, does not constitute a war crime... period... you will need to remember that the UN approved this action in Iraq, so... out the window that goes...

there are actions (defined in the geneva convention) that might raise to the level of war crime... and if you bring GITMO to the table, well, you will need to remember that the geneva convention covers UNIFORMED combatanats... and if you consider the lack of "UNIFORM"-ity of these combatants, well they put themselves outside the protectionss of the geneva conventions.. which their cause was not a signator to ANYWAY... not to mention that the "cause" these combatants were fighting FOR broke the geneva convention at EVERY turn...

so, back to "warcrimes"
W (and Blair)... the UN approved the action.
rumsfeld... prosecuted an approved action.

With Rumsfeld now out of the way, the next thing should be to hand Cheney his hat and escort him to the door.

Then we, here in the US, should get down to business and start the impeachment procedures to remove Bush.

Like any other military man, and he is the Commander and Chief, he should be given a "DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE."

33# you are so right.
However we have also added the complexity of a nanny state whereby we now have areas of 2nd and 3rd generation of people living on state benefits.
This is not their fault they have been told for years that they are no good are unfit are wasted.
If we do not turn this around it will only get worse.
This is where we need the help from the US.
Investment in Scotland by US companies has dropped over the years as they go further abroad or retreat homewards.
The positive nature of the American attitude needs to be once more brought back home here.
Only then can we develop our people to desire to become the best in their field, travel the world, make a difference. The US has lost it's way slightly and has yet to fill the shoes it has inherited. That of world leadership and the driviing force behind not only economic advancement for all but social advancement. Education is the key to reducing conflict not bully boy tactics or underhand cardsharp tricks and gimmicks. The US has the power and the people to take on this mantle but has it appears to have been hijacked somewhere along the road. DR is just a symptom not the root cause.

#34-The west awake--Isn't it curious that we attacked one of the few secular states in the region that had put a lid on the fundies? Isn't it curious that Britain supported the Wahhabis since the 19th century, that Israel supported the rise of Hamas to counter the secularists of the PLO and that we supported the crazies in order to destroy the secularists in Afghanistan?

When one sees such a concerted and continued support for Islamic fundamentalism, one must assume that it is not simply done thorugh carelessness. It has been our policy to support them, now, it seems, it is 'our' policy to encourage fear of them.

36

So what was Nurenburg all about then?

#28 Independent
#24 Sam

To care about all the people Hussein killed does not equate to agreeing to start a war there because of terrorism and 9/11. This war was also about Bush the second carrying forth the legacy left by Bush the first. War in Iraq was certainly NOT the only option available as a response (plenty of room here for discussion) and yet that’s what Bush took us straight into. I was going to add ‘and no real surprise’ but I think many were surprised by that choice. (Just like opposing the war does not, I repeat NOT, equal NON-support of the soldiers. There’s a place there in that last sentence that too many people don’t seem to understand.)

You HAVE to know that when you choose to go into a war there IS no easy way out. Vietnam... anyone? anyone? If Dems would not have started the war, they now will have to deal with (and be blamed for) any and all that comes from fixing it, ending it, no matter which direction is taken and no matter how much they try to care for both soldiers and the Iraqi people. When one party has to move forward in the environment created by the other, which is the norm lately, pure ideology and intention is compromised.

Yes, the world is complicated and in politics and international relations the butterfly effect is magnified fractally and beyond, for no better way to say it. But after Gore lost in a tight race by recount and Supreme Court ruling, and other similar haps, surely there was needed only a slight shift in order for the voice of the other half of the nation to be heard. Although as of right now recount – or rather ‘recount’ haha – is still a possibility.

36
War is an action that most of the general public has no stomach for

Are you referring to the sane ones?

So by your logic and clear reading of the Geneva Convention that puts the victims of suicide bombings outside of the protection of the Geneva convention if they are not wearing uniforms.

WAKEY WAKEY The UN did most definately NOT APPROVE THE INVASION OF IRAQ.
That lie fits right alongside the WMDs and Al Quaeda training camps and it was all for the Iraqi people etc.

No doubt your one of the few members of the public that does have a stomach for war.

And the act of starting or making war is a war crime if you happen to end up on the losing side.
If Hitler had won WW2 he would have hung Churchill Stalin and Roosevelt for war crimes.

I think we here in the USA should consult with you folks (the radical left fringe) in the UK and of course, our old friends the French, before running our own country.
We in the USA should get approval from you folks before we do anything!
Of course, we could also tell you to put a sock it it too!!!!!!

cutting and running

well you did it at the end of ww2... it festered for 50+ years...

and the fruit of that festering was 9/11... Madrid, Bali, London

now you want to go all yellow again... and just want to cut and run... AGAIN???? FOR ALL THAT YOU COUNT HOLY.... MAKE A TOUGH DECISION.... STAND BEHIND THAT DECISION LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO FRUIT!!! GROW A TESTICLE!!! one would be a nice start!!!

before you celebrate over your crumpets & tea you probably aught to examine MUCH more closely the agenda of the new speaker of the house... it mentions NOTHING of immediate US troop withdrawl from the middle east... in fact, it is QUITE the opposite....

US withdrawl will happen as W has said... as it makes sense... You would be wise to take that lead...

Rumsfeld did an outstanding job, considering what he was given...

8 years of clinton left a US military that was in dire need of serious rebuilding... Rumsfeld's vision for the US military, was to make it a quick strike force able to bring overwhelming technology to bear in any arena... and he delivered that... read the pre war clippings from either Afghanistan OR Iraq... none of the "pundits" thought it would play out the way it did

as far as adequate equipment or inadequate as the case might be, I seriously doubt that any of you understand the process of military procurement... it IS NOT as simple as going down to your local Ikea and buying what you want (as if Ikea carried flak jackets!!!)... as quick (and efficient) as that might be its a much more time consuming process. red tape as far as the mind can concieve in EVERY direction... a beurocracy in place LONG before W ever toook office...

and as far as 9/11 failings you have to go back to 1993 and recall the clinton policy that lead to gutting the CIA... then go step by step forward through the fruits that policy bore....

as far as failing democracies in the middle eas

1st, Sam 24: Put a sock in it. Look at the USA's flag; these colours don't run. W & his party are preparing to cut & run- while the USA still has armed forces left.
2nd We American Chauvanists assert our right to try the Messrs Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove, G W Bush, et al for treason in U S Courts. The USA has a death penalty; treason may be punished by death in the USA. Death is never an option at the ICCC or in more civilized nations. Let us exact the cruel penalty of death upon our traitors. They are the authors of the deaths of 1000's in Iraq & almost 3000 U S troops. Remember Scots, Scots-Irish & Ulster-Scots helped settle & establish what has become the USA.
These fierce, independent, clannish people set the American psyche's vindictive streak. Call Americans atavistic & cruel but give us the blood of traitors. As a sop to the effete, in the USA, we execute criminals by leathal injection. Hanging in chains & drawing & quartering never caught on in the USA since it's a time consuming thing.

Mike 36 - Your arguement is held together by your premise "you will need to remember that the UN approved this action in Iraq"
If thats the case why did Kofi Annan call it "illegal"

#43 - you could tell those people to "put a sock in it", but they may tell you to get off a Scottish message board and try the FOX SPEWS one instead.

you drank the kool-aid didnt you!!!

did I ever imply the prosecution of war was the manefestation of sanity? it is a cold and grizly affair... more gruesome than most sane people CAN imagine... I believe THAT was my point...

the UN.. no UN resolution authorizinig force? try THIS one
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/gopher/s90/32
now read it carefully... follow that by THIS one...
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/scres/2002/res1441e.pdf

you might not LIKE it, but the UN had passed resolutions for TWENTY YEARS against Iraq...

Resolutions that Saddam Hussein chose to defy, and ignore.

43

You shouldnt have to go that far just make sure you take your parents next time.

not that it matters... but...

I forgot the middle one...
the "cease fire" that resolution 1441 basically found Iraq in material breach of....

44

If you hadnt cut and run when you did from Vietnam you would still be fighting their now and wouldnt have had the troops available or the stomach for that matter for Afganistan or Iraq.
Or do you honestly think you ever had a chance of winning?
And now you've gone and made the same mistake all over again what a surprise.
Only this time it may not have been a mistake but a criminal act of smash and grab for Iraqs resourses or do you believe in WMDs as well.
The sponsers behind your administration are raking in hugh profits from this war which to them is a victory and when you are forced to pull out they will still be ahead of the game by billions.
Get your head out of your red white and blue arse.

What a happy day it is. And I agree with so many of the other posts. The whole lot of them should be tried for war crimes.

#50 - sh*tshot - leave the SCOTTISH web board if you don't like the "slimy" SCOTS who frequent it. Bye bye, don't le tthe door hit you on the arse on the way out.

Mike from across the pond - that's it mike -it was all clinton's fault..la la la...keep downloading your excuses from FOX SPEWS, you'll need them over the next 2 years.

#44--Mike--If you look at the 'terrorist' events that you cite, you will find a false-flag signature all over them and all around them. They are part and parcel of the "new Pearl Harbor" desired by PNAC and the Neo-Scum. Even the NATIONAL REVIEW pointed out that many of the 9-11 patsies went through a CIA-controlled visa mill in Saudi Arabia. The explosions in the basement prior to the plane striking the first tower is testified to by William Rodriguez and by the 17 people in the sub-basements, some who were wounded by the blast.

Firefighters and emergency workers testify to the explosions that brought the towers down. FBI agents testify to being threatened with arrest prior to 9-11 if they pursued the bin Ladens. The FBI's does not even list 9-11 as a reason for why they want OBL--a spokesman for them said that this was because they had no proof. A minimum of seven of the alleged hijackers are alive and well and one Saudi got an apology from the State Department for naming him--yet the names of the alleged hijackers remain the same. Molten metal in the basements was observed by contractors days after the collapse. Like evidence of complicity is also found in the London, Madrid and Balil bombings.

The US squanders more than the next 50 nations in the world on military spending. To claim that they aren't ready is really disingenious as hawks have been in control throughout the Democratic years and the first move that was called for, by Cheney's DoD strategy papers prior to leaving office with Bush41--the strategic re-deployment of US forces to the Balkans--was carried out by Bush crime-family member and Mena, Arkansas drug dealing and money laundering accomplice, Billy Blythe, aka William Jefferson Clinton...The Bushies may vacation with the bin Ladens, but Bill Clinton vacations with the Bushies. As with Foreign Policy, as destified to by the Clin-Toon's Secretary of State Mad dog Albright, 'One of the strengths of US foreign policy

#48 So do UN resolutions justify invasion? If so lets try to think of another country with long standing issues with the UN. Oh, wait! It is Israel! Hmmmmm. Funny we are all friends with them now aren't we? Here is a list of resolutions against them in case you are interested. They go back further than 20 years just in case you are wondering. http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

You people who love to engage in such a big play on words simply amaze me. I am astounded by the depth of your precise knowledge about what was in the heart and mind of someone across an ocean from you, who certainly does not think like you, several years ago. Why don't you just hang out a sign that says, "Come take us. We understand."

#54 Malky--And just to see the duplicity of "FOX SPEWS" (I like that) Murdoch is out there supporting Hillary--I think she was endorsed in her run this time.

Just watch the new presumptive Speaker of the House Pelosi 'partner' with Bush...it'll be like watching dogs coupling in a slaughterhouse.

Hmmm. Lets try to get a precise understanding for #57. First of all, Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. And any insinuation that it did is pure propaganda and for the most part has been discredited by now. Secondly, if general terrorism is what you say the war was supposed to stop, all evidence points to this war increasing it rather than decreasing it. Thirdly, about the same number of American lives have been lost in the war on Iraq as were lost in 9-11, not to mention the 655,000 Iraquis that have been killed, and the billions of US dollars spent on this war. I guess I really don't understand why this was such a good idea, why don't you enlighten me? And for your information, people on both sides of the pond feel this way, there is no consensus among Americans that going to war was a good idea last time I checked, and the elections of a few days ago seem to bear this out quite nicely. What on earth does geography have to do with ones ability to reason and make judgements? And if you are so critical about what people from the other side of the pond are saying about the US, why are you on this message board? Aren't you just doing the same thing you are criticising? I think I smell a hypocrite.

He was done anyway. Dumsfeld apparently told Shrub he was quitting weeks ago.

So Rumsfeld falls on his war-mongering sword... and is replaced by Gates.
Nothing's reaaly changed.
Domestically there might be a few changes. An adjustment here and there. But where it really matters nothing will change.
The Democrats will not alter US foreign in any meaningful way, especially in the middle east.
Support for the Zionist agenda will continue unabated.

Why Tony, you've gone quite pale.

When defeated in Iraq, American voters just know how to affect regime change in Washtington.

Rumsfeld who sold WMDs to Saddam, conspired with Taliban et al, led the USA in two illegal invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq, was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and thousands of US troops and made himself squillions of dollars doing it all, quits and walks free!

Are you folks in the USA happy with this - are you?

To say they cannot be impeached, for declaring war on Iraq I would suggest that if that reason is not good enough how about the lies that led to the war, and what about the raising of the terror in people , mysterious deaths fron Anthrax [excuse the pun] but that died a death with no explanation, a dossier that was written by a student, Colin Powell with his little phial of God knows what to convince the UN the world was under threat, and what about fraud and embezzelment of the money that was supposed to rebuild the destruction of Iraq, and what of the mysterious death of Dr Kelly, so many things that should be answered, they should ALL be tried.

And as for the yanks who are so concerned about the terrorists taking over, they were bred out of the acts of war. our combined leaders have opened Pandoras box that is what has created them

When they see they have been defeated in Iraq, American voters just know how to make a regime change in Washtington.

Y'know blaming SecDef for failing to get faith-based gangsters to live together in the desert is like blaming the pilots of the 9/11 people-missiles for not sniffing trouble in advance. He did his best with the constraints of what surrounded him. Back down and show some respect for a dedicated government employee.

#64 Bill--Most of my fellow citizens have the memory of an oft' used door knob...as we all know here...Iraqis, Afghans and Palestinians aren't quite human...when their schools are hit by rockets, children don't die as at Columbine...There is no shock and horror at the Iraqi death toll--they blame the Iraqis.

For most Americans, one more Nazi on the loose is no great shakes...not when 'Dancing with the Stars' is on the telly. Bush is still in the saddle (perhaps a bad choice of phrase as our Fearless Leader is afraid of horses) Blair is still in command.

If Scotland will choose freedom and peace, then I think sanity may well have a chance. Americans, though they are, I think, oblivious to it, have voted for war. And, why shouldn't Rumsfeld walk free? If Goring could walk free on the streets of the Third Reich, why shouldn't Rumsfeld walk free on the streets of the Fourth?

Being the uber patriot that he is, I am sure Rummy will volunteer to go to Iraq. Not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prinzowhales # 30.
"The resignation of Rumsfeld is simply eyewash. He is being replaced with a piece of dung--Gates. The Gates of Iran-Contra."
Mr Gates' involvment in Iran-Contra is well documented, but not for his support of the Reagan Agenda, Gates was against it. The reality of Mr Gates' position is that he is a Liberal Appeaser, he hopes that while feeding the 'Gator, the Gator will eat him last. As for Regime Change, for Good or Evil, that will not officially happen until January 2009! The Scottish Media seems to have the same Liberal Agenda as the US Media!

#70 John D.-- I don't think Gates is worried about being eaten...All the New World Order's sock puppets aren't kept in the same drawer...He, like the self-described "Rockefellar Republican", Colin Powell, creates the illusion of a substantive differences. Men like them are more dangerous than Rumsfeld, Cheney and the crazies, they appear reasonable by contrast.

There are some changes in tactics afoot, but the strategy, I think, is unchanged. The first test will be in the support for increased troops levels in Iraq-- barring war with Iran.

Israel...

yeah

careful where you toss dispersions there, old buddy old pal!!!

THAT would be ANOTHER UK MESS!!!! you guys cut and ran from...

Why, in God's name, does everyone think that the name "Rumsfeld" translates to "bombed fields" from the German? As it stands, it simply means rums-field. Rum? the alcoholic drink? Differ the spelling, and it may be "Ruinenfeld" which might be a "bombed field", or it might be "Ruhmesfeld" which would mean "field of honor". Take your pick - there's not much honor where that bloke comes from. The tide is turning, however! He's just the first sign of it.

well what is it man...

an exit strategy???

or still MORE troops on the ground in Iraq...

you put MORE troops on the ground in Iraq, your beloved democrats will have to implement mandatory service/conscription/draft... whatever you want to call it...

and there you go... rewind to 1968... and a republican will find himself in the whitehouse... running on an anti-war campaign

that and ALL the gains made by the democrats on Tuesday will go flying out the window...

so I'm trying to figure out who the "smart" party is here.... republicans appear to have taken one step back (shunning from their ranks some weak sister legislators)... getting ready to take 2 steps forward...

then in 08 they run the liberal agenda up the flag pole (not exactly the agenda that the voters in 06 thought they were sending to the beltway)... warts & all... I'd be willing to bet that come '09 they'll have the super majority necessary to force real hardline conservative agendas down the liberal dem's throats... complete with the horsepower to shut down the threatened liberal filibusters...

History has been rewritten by the lib media and lib politicians
A few facts that are being changed.
1) Clinton thought Saddam was a threat & had WMDs, so did most of our politicians who voted a regime change in 1998.
2) Newsweek 1/11/99 edition claiming Iraq offered Bin Laden sanctuary. The UK Guardian reported that too, as did other media outlets.
3) No mention of Yasin coming being housed in Iraq after his part in the terrorist 1993 WTC attack.
4) U.N. worker saying Saddam had WMD's, but then changed his mind after received over $400,000 from a wealthy MiddleEasterner for a documentary.
5) Joe Wilson telling the press Saddam didn't try to seek yellowcake, but Joe Wilson also telling the security committee that he "can't" dispute the Brits report that Saddam did try to seek yellowcake.
6) One of Saddams spokesman said "we got rid of WMD's before the war". Not ONE reporter asked when or how they got rid of them.
7) Zarqawi was there way before we were. Why didn't he go to Iran or Pakistan instead?
8) Saddam paid homicide bombers families thousands for killing jews, & raised the amount when they killed Americans.
9) Saddam offered asylum to terrorists.
10) Check this out. In July 2001, an Iraqi newspaper owned by Saddams son, foretold of 9/11. Reporting that the White House and the Pentagon would be bombed!! What about all the other intelligence from other countries claiming Saddams WMD's and Al Qaeda connections? What about the photo of the terrorists camp in Salman Pak, Iraq?

I bet some of those people jumping a thousand feet to their death on 9/11 had wished they only had underwear put on their head (like Abu Gharib prisoners).

Clinton should have taken care of him in 93 - before the UN was bought out by Saddam.

Talk about crimes to humanity, did you ever see the videos confiscated after the war which showed men having their tongues cut, whipped, or being

"Rumsfeld who sold WMDs to Saddam,"
who was levelling the playing field with Iran whom had been a US supplied puppet regime since you guys cut and ran at the end of WW2

"conspired with Taliban et al,"
- against a soviet invasion of afghanistan... but I'm betting your cold war history knowledge isnt all that deep now is it???

"led the USA in two illegal invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq" - BOTH of which are UK disasters festering for the previous 60 years... had you all done your job when you were on the top of the heap, we wouldnt have these problems today... or do you just want to forget the era when "the sun never set on the british empire"... because even god couldnt trust you in the dark?

"was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people" - making a wild accusation does NOTHING to prove that kind of accusation

"made himself squillions of dollars doing it all..." - I'd like to see what a "squillion" is but no, rumsfeld made his money LONG before Iraq, Afghanistan, OR becoming secretary of state

"Are you folks in the USA happy with this - are you?"
- not real happy with the mess that mere a century ago was all flying the union jack no we arent happy at all mucking your dang stalls

# 67 Loadster

"... show some respect for a dedicated goverment employee."

Aye, right. Excuse me while my sides burst... which is the only rational response to that load of bollocks.
A stout rope and a sturdy rafter wouldn't go amiss with that murdering war-mongering moron.

You have to feel sorry for the poor Republicans with corrupt members falling like nine pins.
In the States, in Politics if you morally transgress you immediately put yourself in an expensive Rehab Centre. Foley is in there "drying out" after he left the Pages "all wet"!

#76- My father was in stationed in Italy trying to keep the peaceafter WW11 was over, so I don't know what you're talking about with cut and running.

We did supply Afghanistan with arms so they could fight the Russian invasion and it backfired (harsh muslims laws took over) and was a mistake, but maybe the Russian invasion was the initial cause.

I'm not sure which 2 Afghanistan & Iraq wars you're talking about. I know 1 Afghanistan war, the 1 where Bin Laden (who attacked us) lived-don't know any others.
As far as Iraq, are you talking about the 91 war where Iraq invaded its neighbors to control the oil for the world? I'm sure the second war your talking about is the current war which American and other foreign intelligence has claimed co-operation with Al Qaeda and possession of WMDs.

Did we start the war when Germany invaded Europeand killed millions of jews, or when we were bombed in Pearl Harbor, or when Iraq invaded it's neighborsto take over its oil. Did we take Iranian hostages and keep them for over 400 days while chanting death to Iranians? We became reluctant allies with Iraq when the Iranians had American hostages.

We have made many mistakes by trusting some our supposed allies. I think the Clintons made a huge mistake with the deals with N. Korea and also giving China some technology. These mistakes will, as they say in America - "bite us in the ass".

Tell me, do you not think that maybe radical islam is the cause of problems of today? We would have kept out of Afghanistan had it not been for 9/11, or the US Cole bombing, not to mention the bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, and Saudi Arabia, or the attempted bombing on New Years 2000.

By the way, we give 100's of millions of dollars to other countries for aid. Seriously, I don't want America to be considered the world power! I hate our country being called that.

#78 - You are aware that Stuggs (whatever his name is), the Democrat who recently died-had SEX with a 17 year old male page in the 80's and was literally APPLAUDED by his fellow democrats for having the courage to come out. Gov. McGreevey from NJ did not resign because of his gay affair, he is under investigation for taking bribes, Senator Kennedy left someone in the water for hours before he told someone about it. And how can we forget Sandy Berger, the man who stuff classified documents down his pants and then destroyed them (by the way, he pled guilty and got 6 months probation and a fine- ever wonder what was so damaging in those files that made him do that). What about Harry Reid, who made over $700,000 on a real estate deal and did not report it. I do believe both sides are corrupt, but you tend to hear more about the republicans than the dems. The Sandy Berger conviction was pretty much hidden.

#75 - provide links to the media reports that support your assertions.

#80- i hope your not taking comfort from the fact the Dems are as ugly as the repugs?

The totality of the evidence would suggest that your entire nation is corrupt and the vision of the founding fathers has been replaced by a myopic evil hellbent on buggery, subversion of justice and corporate privilige and theft.

Who'd want to live over there?

#81 - Which links would you like. I can tell you for the Newsweek article, you can go into their archives. I will do my research on google and get whatever I can for you.

#75 - There are many, many stories about Yasin if you google +yasin +iraq +1993 WTC bombing. But here is one link www.weeklystandard.com the 08/02/04 article. I'm trying to find media articles before the Bush years (I know they're out there somewhere)

Prinzowhales 68

At least Goring did the decent thing and topped himself, Rumsfeld has that option before they catch up with him.

Mike 76

Just keep mucking our dang stalls, you need the practice for what's coming next.

#75 - The U.N. worker who changed his story of Iraqs WMDs was named Scott Ritter. he was a U.N. weapons inspector in the 90's. He wrote a book called "Endgame: solving the Iraq problem once and for all", which claimed there were wmd's, but pretty much that UNSCOM was not being allowing him to do his job corrrectly. Then in 2000, he did a documentary called "in shifting sands, the truth abut UNSCOM and the disarming of Iraq. he was paid $400,000 from an Iraqi-american Businessman named Shaker Al-Khaffafi (it is reported that Shaker received this money from UNSCOM).

I read this on www.wikipedia.org/wiki/scott_ritter.
Besides I've heard this man talk before and after he got his $400,000

Hey Limey Bill. He is gone. To bring up old Germans and compare Rumsfeld with them is too much. Rumsfeld is gone. Now so is Bushes 1-2 punch in congress. He has to do something to change. Rome was not built in a day and this mess won't go away in a day,but it is a start.

#81 - My internet is really slow, but you can google article by Ed Morrisey in regards to Naeem Abd Muhalhal's July 21, 2001 article which pretty much foretold of 9/11. The iraqi newspaper was owned by one of Saddams son. Also, there was a newspaper article where a judge awarded a 9/11 victims family member a judgement against saddam, and this article was part of the evidence.

I do not have time right now for the other links, especially since my internet is exceptionally slow.
You can pretty much find the rest on google if you use the right keywords. These are facts that I have heard on the news, so I decided to check them out on the internet. I did see, and hear, the Iraqi (U.N. official) say that Iraq got rid of the WMDs before the war (he might have even said months before the war). I will try desperately to find this FACTUAL STATEMENT.

#79 When Bush ran the first time he promised "a more humble foreign policy." Then, when he got in, he promised a hundred year war. He and the men around him are internationalists. The Neo-Cons are simply Trotskyites who left the Dems--Richard Perle, the Israeli spy who worked for Senator "Scoop" Jackson in the 1970s and moved on to work for 'Lord' Conrad Black, the notorious news baron and thief went to the last Bilderburg group meeting, if memory serves. They eased over from the Democratic left to the Republican right and have nests in all the former Conservative media--like 'National Review'.

The Republicans had both houses, the presidency and the courts and still refused to do anything even remotely resembling following through on a Conservative 'agenda'.

Many Democrats have come into office this time who will be sympathetic to the kind of real Republicanism represented by Rep. Ron Paul. The current camarilla around Bush is anything but Conservative--they are out and out Corporatists-- Fascists who are too fat to march.

Prinzowhales is telling the truth. I remember also what he said in #90 that Bush promised to be humble on foreign policy during 2000 campaign, it was a prominent promise. He said it was his highest priority in foreign policy. and people voted for him because of that. But then he's been extremely arrogant. This is part for the course.

There were prominent lies by GHW Bush in 1988 when he said he would not raise taxes, and then he did. There were prominent lies by Clinton in 1992 in the campaign when he said he would get tough with the CHinese, and then he went to bed with them. Then more prominent lies by Bush in 2000. They have normalized lies. and the bible tells us that deception is a key tool of those who oppose god.

I think people should be aware that Rumsfeld is a member of the Skull & Bones cult. George HW Bush is a member, George W Bush is a member, Dick Cheney is a member. Gerald Ford is a member.

A book that came out prior to the year 1900 and was made with input from former members of Skull & Bones identified the group as a sick cult that loves death.

Skull & Bones members were the leaders in the opium trade with China in 1800's. Skull & Bones members played important roles in financing and helping the communists come to power in Russia. Skull & Bones members played important roles in financing and helping the NAZIs come to power in germany. and now Skull & Bones members have started the Afghan war and the Iraq war.

There are about 14 people brought into the Skull & bones group each year. In their whole history since 1830's they've had less tahn 2000 members. There's only about 700 of them alive I think. and yet history is full of the evil they have spawned.

and none of the facts that I've mentioned are in dispute by anyone. They are simply kept quiet.

call me a cockeyed optimist but I'm looking at these results as the American people standing up and saying they're sick of the lies, they want facts. Like that little window in time when Anderson Cooper was getting the truth out during Katrina, before the spinmasters got their webs up and running again.

Go for it Prinzo et. al!

Glad to see Rumsfeld out of there but would prefer him to be replced by a military man and not a former CIA spook.
As for war crimes......let's start with all the white people that invaded my land and committed genocide on a scale that would have Hitler and Stalin blushing with shame. Oglala Sioux and proud of it

#91 Absolutely Wally...and the money comes out of a trust set up by profits from the opium trade to support the Skull and Bones.

#92 Menzies, you cockeyed optimist, the Democratic leadership is going to play ball with Bush. If there is a rebellion in the ranks, the next thing I would expect would be long, drawn out hearings like the Lewinsky nonsense under Clinton where his real crimes were buried under the sex scandal...but, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I will miss Rumsfeld, in his shutstaffel high boots and cap, an icon of what the hell is going on". A hero of total noncommunicative shisbah and someone I've always looked up to when he would top the bullshit that was contrived officially within the new nazi party.Hail heir Rumsfeldt.

Seig heil. i worship the s--- that you are a part of. Seig heil. you are my saviour and my god. Excuse me while I give a ____.

So, what did Skull and Bones see in Sen. John Kerry, that the rest of us missed?

How the mighty are fallen! Might not be too long before his cohorts join him.