We already have Judenrein Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan, Marocco, Tunisia, Pakistan, Afganistan, Kazachstan, Azerbaijan, Kirgisztan, and, since August 2005, Gaza.

Some European countries are Judenrein too (Lithuania, Poland, ...)

Actually, Lieberman called for equal law to all citizens. For instance, if a Muslim refuses compulsory service in IDF, he should serve time in jail. Same goes for polygamy and incitement against Jews or Holocaust denial.

Otherwise, just leave.

"Love it or Leave it."

To any Judenrein countries listed above.

Much better than "convert or die," no?

"Anywhere in the world where there are two peoples and two religions there is conflict," Mr Lieberman said.
would it be more accurate to say, "anywhere in the world where there are two religions and one of them is islam, there is conflict?"
sudan, thailand, nigeria, kashmir, somalia, lebanon.
someone help me out here, i must be overlooking something. there have to be christians and buddhists duking it out somewhere, right?
i can only think of one exception,if you hold catholic and protestant to be two religions. but they seem to have made nice of late.

#2 nice observation.
Lieberman is a far thinking politician and correct as what will happen when Arab population in Israel reaches 51% and to whom will they show their loyalty ? it wo'nt be Israel.

Equal law should apply to all citizens.

<i>Otherwise, just leave.

"Love it or Leave it."

To any Judenrein countries listed above.

Much better than "convert or die," no?</i>

As the tangible result of Jewish converts to radical Catholicism and immigrants to the New World (Russia, Germany), and survivor of the "Love It or Leave It" Amerika of Viet Nam War vintage, I can say I have smelled this before.

What next, Sephardimfrei?

Lav

You would do better to listen to the likes of Grossman than to the likes of Lieberman.
I wonder how long it will be before the likes of Lieberman calls for the expulsion of the likes of Grossman from Israel.
Because that is the slippery slope Israel seems to be heading for.

Deb 2

There were Christians Buddists Hindus duking it out in Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, WW2, WW1 etc etc.
If you check out your history you will find that every religion has fought every other religion more than once or twice.
You people need to keep your rabid predudices in check. It make you no better than the extremists on the other side.

Derek 3

If the Arab Population reaches over 50% maybe then you will learn to talk and communicate with them after all its hard to ignore your neighbour. Then maybe you will find a way to live in peace or do you want to live with war your whole life?
Because these policies are going to turn a hell of a lot of Moderate muslim into extremists.

Typical comments by the right wing Nazis in Israel. They want to do to the Arabs what the German Nazis did to them; genocide and ethnic cleansing.

There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as these Nazis have any influence. These people (and I use the term people, loosely) will, indeed, turn a lot of ordinary Muslims into extremists; and right wing Americans will continue to support, finance and arm these Nazis.

Arabrein Israel! A new idea!

I thought that had been the policy of the extremists all along. The problem is what are they going to do about Jewish Arabs and Christian Arabs or more to the point Jewish Muslims and Jewish Christians?

A new master race - have they started a lebensborn programme yet?

It is time for the Israelis to make amends for their wrongs, not compound them. Otherwise they risk losing it all for the sake of extremists who are little by little destroying their country and culture.

So what happens to the Arabs that dont leave?
Concentration camps and gas chambers maybe?
Isnt this the same progression of events that started in Germany in the 1930s through into the 1940s?.
Why make them leave why not just turn them into slave labour instead?
Of course in the near future A new US government might not take extreme Israelli policies too kindly and might just might mind you withdraw support.
Something you might want to think about before you start voting in any more extremist politicians.

Just one more reason to support the Intifada...

Yeah well he is just following his neighbours....they all want a Israeli free Middle East...so whats sauce for the Goose etc....

Right Scott u support it fae bonnie scotland...that will help

Lieberman is just 1 right wing Clown,spouting nonsense,but why dont you guys get all hot under the coller when the President of Iran,calls 4 wiping Israel off the face of the Map, & Hamas,stating they will never accept an Israeli presence in the Area....some of ur postings are very 1 sided...wonder why??

Wish we had a Leiberman in the UK...if we did maybe some of the Extreme Muslims would stop some of their rantings & ravings...

Cool 10 12

Fair point on 10 but what is the answer fight fire with fire? dont you think that will only burn the whole house down?

I believe the Pres of Irans comments were covered in another forum because I remember commenting on them myself.

Iran Hamas Hezbollah have all come under the scutiny at least of this paper and the forums have been full of comments condemming their behaviour and their part in the conflict.
But there seems to be a section of Pro Israelli/Jewish posters on these forums that cant seem to find them. Even the ones posted under the topic labelled IRAN.
It is not the posting that are one sided your just not reading the full spectrum of topics.
This one is specifically dealing with an Israelli government extremist and therefore the posts concern themselves with Israelli government extremists. Do you see how it works?
or did you also attend Dogma High as a teenager?

Me 13

Can you see any Muslim extremist rantings and ravings on this forum?
Or are they full of Israelli/Jewish ranting and raving.
And Lieberman himself is an extremist ranter and raver or havnt you noticed?

I suppose the solution to the whole problem will finally be sorted out with Nuclear weapons

Then nobody will be able to lay claim on the land for 10s of thousands of years.

Or you can put your hatred aside for each other long enough to sit down have a cup of tea and a biscuit and shoot the breaze instead.

No Dogma School 4 me Mike, was brought up to keep an open mind, however, in the face of daft comments, like "1 more reason 2 support the Intifada & Israeli Nazi comments.." I dont think the posters are seeing the wider picture! Its fairly obvious that if the "Neighbours" are calling for you to go,& saying "They" will never accept you in the Neighbourhood, that will encourage a bully like Lieberman to say the same back... this a daft comparison, but the UK public is constantly up in arms at the neds,thugs, that "take over" the City centers,& call 4 "tuff" action against them,so they can feel unafraid & free to go about their business....if u are threatened, the response, temptation will also be to return the Threat, unless u believe in turning the other cheek??

Naw nae Muslim ranting & ravings,jist the usual slight over the top Israeli Bashing....fae home grown bigots, like the clown who invaded the Pitch at Ibrox.....Glasgow & Scots in general, (am 1)...can teach the Israelis a thing or two about Bigotry!

Imagine if someone like Jorg Haider (often condemned as a Nazi but actually fairly far from it) entered a coalition government and started making staements like this (make Steiermark Slav free or Vienna Jew-free). What would the reaction be?
The inclusion of Lieberman in the Israeli cabinet marks a new low for Israel yet I have yet to read of any condemnation from EU countries or the USA (as if.......)

1. serve in the army 3 years as EVERY citizen
2. marry ONE woman at a time
3. stop anti-semitic incitement

How is this anti-arab?

But if you refuse, then go to jail or leave.

How is this anti-arab?

Consider the current situation: Arabs live with all the rights, including Sharyah and participation in the Parliament but none of the duties.

How is that not anti-semitic in our own country?

I think I can see where Leib is coming from: a country that is surrounded by 'neighbours' who want to see his religion, culture etc wiped from the face of the earth. Mix this with a regular supply of young Arab/Moslem flesh being brain washed into exploding themselves to bits in his midst - while believing they are going to a place they call paradise ( and as an aside I just cannot get my head around that idea) - and I find it improbable that Leib's views will not find support with a lot of Jews/Isrealis.
Whether his ideas will catch on enough to come to fruition is any body's guess. But I believe that an awful lot of people around the world - never mind in the Middle East - are beginning to suspect that the Middle East 'problem' has just a wee bit more to do with the enemies that surround the Jews and a wee bit less to do with the Jews themselves. And so if Leib's in favour of distancing his potential enemies in the present climate of hate then that is up to him and the Isreali electorate. Across their borders their enemies have long been calling for their extermination. In Isreal someone has opened a debate about whether they should allow their Arab enemies to live in their midst.

I can't condemn the Jews for this way of thinking. I don't live in Isreal - thank God - whatever God you choose by the way - and cannot possibly magine how it must feel to know that the enemy without - and very likely within - is out to exterminate your race.

Let the debate begin.

Dear all,

In today's world, it is clearly visible that, the desires of political leaders has reached at a threshold point. At this point, the person in the power can't see the words written on the wall and they can't hear the words like PEACE or LOVE or SAFETY OF OUR SOCIETY.

They only want to add the fuel in the boiling pot filled with the innocent people.

It is dengerouse to think about our children in which cercumstances we will leave them.

I was in Egypt just before the Iraq war. One thing which I found surprising was the size of the Coptic Christian Church (about 11m people) and the presence of many churches everywhere I looked in Cairo. When I asked my hosts about this they confirmed they had pretty much lived in toleration and harmony with their Coptic neighbours for centuries. I certainly never noted any tension and indeed the MD of the firm I was visiting was himself Coptic and confirmed this to me. I have never heard about any repression of christians in Egypt - surely this is an example of one state happily existing with 2 religions? Of course that was before the Iraq war...
On the other hand I visited Israel around the same time, and while enjoying the country immensely, was very aware that I was in a "jewish" country. The Arabs I encountered did not appear self-confident and the tension was uncomfortable. I ceme to the conclusion I would definitely not like to be an Israeli Arab, and again that was before the Iraq debacle.
One mans experience I know, but I feel more informed than I would if all I did was read the papers.

Mike @16,

Are YOU not ranting and raving? Or do you think that only your kind have this unique privilege on Scotsman?

If only Muslims limited their "freedom of expression" to ranting and raving on Scotsman, everything would be fine.

But Muslim ranting and raving usually means random killings of infidels and burnt churches and cars.

Is it not so?

Yeah, Andy. Lots of experience.

Are you proposing we trade Egyptian Copts with Israeli Muslims?

Any day.

22 U speak a lot of sense....to me that is...but ur sane reasoning is like a voice in the wilderness,& nae too popular.20 Haider is a Lieberman no more no less....BTW if some left wing/right wing minister got bumped into the Cabinet would you expect the UK/Europe/Israel to make it a serious item in their newspapers, Media....dont think so.

@27 Very Cool.

Andy...whatever ur views, at least they are first hand & not gathered from the web.Mind u I could have introduced u to lots of Israeli Arabs who have no problem living inside Israel, did u visit Haifa? or the Galilee?& they feel very confident about living in Israel.Glad u were aware u were in a Jewish Country, though,lol...we intend to keep it that way as well,as I dont fancy being pushed into the Sea, as the slogen goes! If Israel was surrounded with Christian Arabs...there would have been Peace since 1948!

Yoram 21

"1. serve in the army 3 years as EVERY citizen"

Unrealistic. You can't expect people to shoot their own.

"2. marry ONE woman at a time"

Whether you like it or not, polygamy is permitted by the Muslim religion, and you have to respect that.

"3. stop anti-semitic incitement"

Presumably you mean anti-Jewish incitement. They are semites themselves.

bill @30:

1. Sure, we do have Druzs and we do have some Muslims serving special units as well as in police.

In any army, including Israel, only 5-10% of recruits actually use firearms. The rest is in support.

Do not want to do anything military? OK, spend 3 years building roads and buildings.

But give 3 years of your life to the country, like everybody else.

2. Nope, absolutely no respect to Sharyah laws or any fake prophets in Jewish state. You start with polygamy and you end up with Jeziyah.

Lieberman sounds like a loony. Not a million miles from a certain ex-mayor of Tehran I could mention.

bill #30

What's your real name? Are you a Muslim?

Polygamy? No big deal! Don't expect me to show any respect for that!

Yoram 26 - I was trying to be as objective as possible, my opinion is that 99% of people put into the situation I was in would have reached the same conclusion. You perhaps believe that Israeli Arabs do not feel repressed, are confident that they are well-represented and governed in Israel and are generally happy and treated fairly. I do not. Yes you are right, I have very limited personal experience to make that judgement, but many people fought Hitler and millions died doing so never having visited Israel or Germany.
It appears to me that Israel employs double standards, preaching religious toleration when it suits them and revealing intolerance and hatred when it does not.
Yourself and Lieberman have much in common.

If this guy really only wants equality between muslim and jews in Israel, I take it he'll be in favour
of giving equal rights to muslims and jews wishing to emigrate to Israel?

Yorum 25

I suppose that depends on your definition of ranting and raving. Do you think somebody is ranting and raving if they take an opposite view to yours?

I think somebody is ranting and raving if they take an extreme view whatever it is and pushes that view against all reason and arguement because they refuse to see any other.

And it looks like Liebermans ranting and raving is going to cause the expulsion of Israelli citizens from Israel and provoke an already explosive situation.
Probably causing more deaths and destruction.
Whos fault will that be?

22 Rob

I am sorry mate but you dont seem to be seeing anything.
If the problem were that simple then the solution would be equally as simple move the Israellis to a place where they wont be surrounded by enemies.
Problem is the Israellis wont agree to that simple solution.
Makes you think there might be more to the problem than that then eh?
Maybe we should move all the Arabs and put them all into another country or continent all together.
Maybe you think thats the answer to this simple problem.
Maybe we should just Nuke Syria Jordan Iran and Egypt that would stop the fighting. problem with that is the fall out would probably wipe out the population of Israel as well cant have now can we?
And please dont ever condemn the Jews or Israellis for anything it only hurts their feelings and makes you an anti semitic bigot.

And this repeated arguement regarding hard line Islamic extremists constantly calling for the extermination of Israel. How is that any different from Christianity trying the same thing for centuries. Jews have been persecuted in nearly every country in the world mostly by Christian sects.
The Nazis came very close to wiping out nearly every Jew in Europe THEY WERE NOT MUSLIMS.
Nobody is suggesting that every Christian is anti Jewish or wants to see the extermination of Israel.
Can somebody please explain t

Muslims have no more interest in a free, democratic Israel then they do in a free, democratic Scotland...They are only tolerant until they become the majority.

Come on Tom you'll be telling me next these free democracies actually exist.

I am absolutely shocked by the religious intolerance in some of these comments.

There are many north african countries with jewish minorities and they are thriving - I personally know some in Marocco.

One of the most intolerant countries that I have visited is Israel. The problem as I see it is that most consider Judaism, Catholicism, etc. as a faith - in Israel it is considered a nationality.

Religion causes more strife than other subjects as each caste, sect, order or whatever thinks that their way is right and the others are wrong.

If there is a God, he must be laughing at all the fools in the world behaving like idiots!

1. The purpose of Jihad is to convert everybody to Islam or pay Jezyah. (read about Dar-el-Harb vs Dar-el-Islam).

2. An independent Jewish state that ignores Muhammad and does not pay Jezyah in the middle of Dar el Islam is an antithesis to Jihad.

3. Hence as long as Jews insist on independent Jewish state in the midst of Dar el Islam, Jihadists and Jews will continue to fight.

4. There are people who think that there are moderate Muslims recognize Muhammad but oppose Jihad.

Unfortunately these people with kind hearts can provide no names of specific Muslims that with such advanced views.

5. Hence peace between Jews and Jihadists is an illusion.

Grossman, one of such kind people, lost his son to an illusion and now he insists that others should lose their sons too for the same illusion.

Before Grossman was just one of many liberal idiots. Now he is trying to become a leader for such self-destructive idiots.

6. Security, on the other hand, is achievable.

7. Sharon recognized the futility of Oslo accords and stupidity of "peace for land" formula. He tried "unilateral disengagement." He failed too.

8. As opposed to Olmert and the rest of liberals stuck in old futile formulas, Lieberman is trying something new.

We must respect his initiative.

9. Unfortunately, Lieberman's approach will fail too for two reasons:

a. He offers part of Jewish land to Muslims, encouraging countinued Jihad

b. He ignores neighboring Muslim countries, who must participate in solving Palestinian refugee problem because they participated in its creation.

Sad.

When Israel has someone like Lieberman in a position of power, why would any Arab living in Israel feel inclined to show the state any loyalty?
The Zionist dream is the (Biblical) land of Israel with a pure Jewish population "goyim-free".

Mr Lieberman is an anti-Semite. If this type of racist rant came from an Arab, all Israelis would have been banging the semitism drum. Now they have a leader who is a true facist. He hates Arabs. He wants to remove them from their own land. Israeli Arabs have been living there for centuries. He wants to ethnically cleanse Israel. That is no different from President Ahmedinejad's solution of removing all Jews back to Germany. Israel should clean their own political system before they point fingers at other nations who hate them.

Lieberman is a very vocal zionist... why are you surprised?

Yoram#1. how can Israel trust muslims in the IDF. since one could caurse the death of many Israeli soldiers in one incident. we have the same problem in the British Armed Forces. and even in the police force.

Citizenship implies loyalty regardless of race, gender, or religion.

We have Cerkes, Christians, Druzes and Bedouin Muslims serving in IDF and police. Some also serve in special units, including combat and intelligence.

In any army, including Israel, only 5-10% of recruits actually use firearms. 90-95% of military personnel fill in support roles and never face combat. For Jewish females, the percentage of support roles reaches 99%.

Do not want to do anything military? OK, spend 3 years building roads and buildings.

But in any case give 3 years of your life to the country, like everybody else.

Otherwise you are a deserter, which is a crime punishable by law in every country.

Don't want to be punished like EVERY Jewish deserter?

Well, then leave. Thanks to Muhammed, there are plenty of countries sharing the same values and language.

The law must apply equally to every citizen.

What choices does a Jewish deserter have?

1. Serve prison and then serve in IDF.
2. Emigrate.

Why should Muslims that insist on having Israeli citizenship be exempt from national service?

#47 Maybe muslims object to serving in the IDF because they would object to the IDF gunning down women, young children and even babies, or to demolishing a house during an act of collective punishment (a war crime), with an 80 year old bed-ridden woman still inside. these things have happened, and continue to happen.

Why don't you stick to spreading your brand of poison in some of your own newspapers. Is it perhaps because there are decent Israelis who would object?

@ 48:

Muslims do not seem to object blowing up Jewish buses, restaurants, and discos full of women, young children, and babies.

Muslims also do not seem to object gunning down Muslim women, young children and even babies in Iraq.

No, morality and ethics is not a Muslim problem.

I don't think it is your problem either. Why don't you go back into your cave and keep working your goats?

On the way out, watch out for those unexploded bomblets.

# 30 Bill - you're bang on. The new anti-Semitism is being directed against the Arab people, especially the Palestinians, be they Israeli Arabs or displaced/occupied Palestinians. Lieberman is the rising star of this new anti- Semitism.

Yoram, for goodness sake, you're a sad and sorry advert for the state of Israel, just like Lieberman. Are you typical of the Israeli people. Surely not.

Going by some of the posts on this forum the western policy of demonising the Arab and Muslim peoples has been highly successful.
The bottom line is that Israel, with the connivance of the UN and the guilt-ridden western powers, punished the Palestinians for the wickedness of Nazi Germany. This is one of the world's most outstanding injustices since the Second WW.
Israel is in TOTAL DENIAL of this basic fact. Israel stole Palestine, and the likes of Lieberman, who isn't even born in Israel, are a logical consequence of this denial. The man is a neo-nazi.

@ 50:

In a "true Islamic state," sexually active homosexuals would be executed, says Arshad Misbahi, an imam in Manchester's Central Mosque. According to interviewer John Casson, the imam explains that while executions "might result in the deaths of thousands," they would be worthwhile "if this deterred millions from having sex and spreading disease."

Another Muslim intifadah rages in France. Hundreds of cars are torched nightly and passenger buses set ablaze with Molotov cocktails. One such fire in Marseille leaves a 26-year-old woman in a coma with burns covering 70 percent of her body. "We are in a state of civil war, orchestrated by radical Islamists," says police union leader Michel Thoomis. "This is not a question of urban violence any more. It is an intifadah, with stones and firebombs." So far this year, more than 2,500 police have been wounded in clashes with rioters.

Afghanistan: The kidnappers of Italian photojournalist Gabriele Torsello threaten to murder him unless Abdul Rahman, an Afghan Christian convert, is returned to Afghanistan and handed over to an Islamic court. Rahman lives in Italy, which granted him asylum earlier this year, when he faced the death penalty under Afghanistan's sharia law for converting from Islam to Christianity.

Australia: Australia's foremost Muslim cleric triggers an uproar when he likens women who don't wear an Islamic headscarf to "uncovered meat" and blames them for attracting sexual predators. "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or the park . . . and the cats come and eat it," says Sheik Taj al-Din Hilali, "whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat? If [the woman] was in her room, in her home, in her headscarf, no problem would have occurred."

Yet you, Brian, CHOOSE to defend Jihadists and attack Jews.

Who is in denial?

1979, Iran Embassy Hostages

1983, Beirut, Lebanon Embassy

1983, Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks

1988, Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York

1993, First New York World Trade Center attack

1996, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex

1998, Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy

1998, Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy

2000, Aden, Yemen USS Cole

2001, New York World Trade Center

2001, Pentagon

Notice increasing frequency and associated damage.

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

The attacks happened during the administrations of Republicans or Democrat Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2.

There were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter.

Yet you, Brian, CHOOSE to defend Jihadists and attack Jews.

Do you want, Brian, Sharyah to become the law in Glasgowstan?

Yoram - it's time for Israelis to share the Holy Land with the Palestinians.

Brian @ 54,

You did not answer my question to you in @53.

Prior to advising Jews what to do with their land, why don't you consider first sharing Scotland with Muslims?

Or at least try to help solving it in such a way that it will not promote Jihad and it will help maintain long-term security.

My point is that while every nation participated in creating the Palestinian refugee problem, people like you are trying to make Israel solve it alone.

Note that we already share the Holy Land with the Palestinians. They got entire TransJordan, which is now Jordan. That is more than 2/3 of the initial allocation of Palestine for Jews.

1. Look at the map. Compare sizes and population densities in Israel, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

2. Sharing the remaining land means destruction of Israel, so the answer to your proposal is "NO" across all left and right wings of Israeli politics. Even liberals like Grossman still retained minimal survival instincts.

3. Why not asking other Arab states that participated in the creation of Palestinian refugee problem to give some of their vast and uninhabited land to Palestinians?

Same old, same old from Yoram - many of you will have noted that Zionist Jews accept no criticism and counter with a barrage of selective facts.
The fact that The Scotsman allows you to post your fevered rantings on this site rather defeats your argument that it is pro-Jihadist.
Perhaps you would consider reading something more to your liking such as the Jewish Chronicle or some other Zhid journal. Clearly the Scotsman is not to your liking and the views of many readers opposed to your own, so why do you persist with your propagandising?

Come back any time, Yoram, I and a lot of others enjoy your comments and find them very informative. Thanks.

Yorum 47

Would you classify any Muslim serving in the IDF as a moderate?

If so does that answer your questions regarding where all the Islamic moderates are?

Yoram

What a blessing to have you around here? Let the truth be known! So, keep posting for a lot of readers love to hear from you.

Its indeed the same old same old from Yoram,but I have checked out some of the stuff he posts, & must admit he has a very strong point,& he is up a against a rather Pro-Arab lobby,dont u think? Would be interested to know why so many readers of the Scotsman as u say James are opposed to his views,maybe u have been taken in with some of the Muslim Propaganda as well then?

61

What exactly is his very strong point?
I cant get past the ranting.

Few points, Mike.

#1. Muslims wage Jihad (holy war) against our way of life. Jihad is everywhere, in Europe, Far East, America, and Middle East. Israel and Palestine is just one little part of it.

#2. You are not Swiss. You know you MUST make a choice and join a side. That's a hard decision to make.

It is a much easier decision for Jews. It has always been made for us.

#3. You are making excuses to delay YOUR decision. You think you can afford it because you are not a Jew.

Grossman also tried. But events caught up with his son.

Do you have a son, Mike?

Israel's aggressive policies murdered Mr Grossman's son just as they murdered 1500 Lebenese civilians, and continue to murder innocent Palestinian women and children every day.
You and your ilk defend the indefensible, Zionism is a catalyst for reaction in the region. Political instability is required for the continuation of the apartheid state of Israel. Israel thrives on conflict. It can't exist without it.
Continuous cries for security from a people who feel insecure on the land that they stole, and continue to steal on a daily basis.
It's time for Israel to share The Holy Land with the Palestinians... as equals!
Your ranting and raving is indicative of your own feelings of insecurity.
The Palestinians are willing to share their country with the Jewish people, it's called the one state solution.
Surely that's more humane than Lieberman's version of the final solution, which you seem more than keen to promote.
Incidently, we do share Scotland with the Muslims and the Jews and are better for it.

His strong points are...his posting of FACTS...remember them..not just opinions, like us....All the data re World Events,bombings as he posted have been the work of Muslims...Extremists if u prefer, but all the work of Muslims, leaving Israel aside for a tick...if u can...when was the last time u heard of a Jewish Plot to bomb Cities,or to actually carry them out as some Muslims have done!Walking about the streets of the UK,& know which Group I fear most,thats what makes me wonder why there is this, I would call it bigotry towards a Country far from our shores! Why is it Israel always has to make concessions towards the Arabs,cant they compromise & say OK lets start from here & now...& try to live together, with no Hostile Retoric, with no Hostile Action,that might just do the trick, dont u think!

63 Yorum

Point 1 SOME Muslims are waging Jihad against Israel and SOME Muslims are waging Jihad against the West. Why do you insist on attacking them all?

Some Jews are waging Jihad against Arabs/Muslims in Palestine and Some Christians are waging Jihad against Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan.
Is one justifiying the other?

point 2 I have chosen a side I am for moderation and against extremism I thought I had made that clear enough.

Point 3 What excuses? name one.

Grossmans opinions havent changed in spite of what happened to his son. That is not a sign of weakness but a sign of morale strength. I dont know if I could find that morale strength if it happened to me.

and yes I do.

Now here we have Brian,posting such a bigoted statement which makes me think,its not likely there will ever be Peace..what is this sharing of the Holy Land, its already shared! never heard of Jordon,what we share Scotland with Muslims & Jews ?u gotta be kidding me pal...Scotland is a Country for Scots,of course we have different folks from different backgrounds living here,but its not (yet) a Muslim or Jewish Country, with ur reasoning,the Jewish State would not exist with all the Muslims sharing it...thats maybe fine by u..but not I imagine by the Israelis Since when have the Palistinians been willing to share THEIR Country. & who gave u the rights to call it their County,.. u never heard what the Hamas...read Goverment of Palestine. views on sharing are...lol...well this of course is where the debate ends....Not a big History buff eh Brian!

65 Boo Hoo

Ok if you want more FACTS especially about terrorism being used to win control of a certain area within the middle east just go onto any Internet provider and type in STERN GANG.
You'll get all the facts and figures you could ever wish for. Please feel free to come back and comment on what you find.

Jim they are thriving only because they are a tiny minority...I visit the UK every year (dont know if u r from there) & I find it more & more Intolerant every year...each to his opinion eh!(Perhaps God is indeed laughing,)but dont forget most of the Culture of the World began in that, in ur opinion Intolerant Country!

Mike have got ur number by now...dont need the net for recent history....ur antipathy towards Israel is all 2 clear...& chucking Historic Facts at u, is a waste of time...u cant keep the debate at recent History eh... with all the Terror Attacks that have been done by Muslims,u wave the Strern Gang red herring,they were extreme in their way,however in the light of recent events all over the World I dont think they would rate very highly in Terror Groups!I enjoy a good debate,but like Bill,u dont debate,just post stuff that u r against, so what would u do if u were the Leader of Israel, faced with Hamas saying it will never recognise ur right to exist.How would u go about reaching a Peace Settlement?

....land that they stole..??? Grow Up!

Go to Topics A to Z - India & Pakistan. Look for article "Missile strike sparks rally by militants" and read Dilbert's posts.

Jews & Christians waging Jihad..?????is the poster of a sane mind.... I would say some Jews & some Christians are trying to stem the flow if Jihad,to stop reaching our Shores.....sorry of course it already has.....

Mike yer a sheep in wolfs clothing...trying to be all things to all posters..but I ken fine where u r coming from Pal...does the wee wifey wear a veil! No need to reply!

Wae Hey things are heating up now

Boo Hoo
You wouldnt get my number if I tatooed on your forehead.
Iv got nothing against Israel never had been there twice enjoyed both times would go again.
Even Yorum would agree none of my posting were anti Israel or Jewish but anti Israelli government policy and IDF conduct find me one that condradicts this. I bet there are many moderate Israellis and Jews throughout the world would agree with most of my statements they just dont seem to be posting on here today. So you choose to ignore the historic facts regarding the Stern Gang not surprising really your not interested in reasonable debate because youve got no answer to it. Away and Hud yer wheesht.

72
Aye right enough we were invited into Iraq and Afganistan or do you also believe in WMDs and Santa.

73 Jakey

And you are just a wee lamb following the sheep.
I doubt you could find where I am comming from with a map and compass. Have you got anything relevant to add to the topic thats supposed to be under discussion or have you given up like the rest.
Ma pair wee lamb.
.

Aye the hotter the better eh Mikey...u r well rude & crude & no better than most of our sad cases in Scotland..could be the drugs, could be the Fitba, could be the weather, but u keep posting stuff nae sane person is likey tae read...Hud yer Wheesht...smashing... a real Rab C.Nesbit...think u r King of the Posters eh boy,I will leave ye tae it....my condonances tae yer wife! PS I didnt ignore the facts about the Stern Gang but u sure forgot the facts about ur Pals & all the damage they have done... Yer jist a died in the wool anti-wotsit....

75

So whats your excuse?

Boo Hoo #61 et seq.....
I cannot speak for anyone else posting here but I hold Muslim Jihadist and Zionists in equal contempt, in faact they are beneath contempt.
It is you Boo Hoo that have been taken in by Yoram's propaganda but then that is the reason for his multiple posts.
As Mike indicates, I have yet to read a reasonable arguement from any Israeli apologists why the actions of the Stern Gang and Irgun, Hagenah (and, if you like, the IDF) were not terrorism.
Back to the story, I fail to see how appointing a fanatic like Lieberman will do anything other than enflame an already volatile situation. If his views represent the views of a sizeable portion of the Israeli population then they are an obsticle to peace every bit as much as Hamas and all these other looney Muslim groups.

Boo Hoo - What's bigoted about sharing Israel/Palestine?
What are you bleating on about Hamas for? Israel will not recognise the right of self-determination for the Palestinian people, except in a severely diluted version of a bantustan. This was the best Arafat was ever offered which he quite rightly rejected.
Israel originally funded Hamas in order to destablise the secular PLO (Fatah) govt. Now that the Palestinians have democratically elected in Hamas they are now arming Fatah to further destablise the Palestinian Territories. Thus proving my point about the Israeli need for political instability in the region. Economically Israel holds all the cards, hence the deliberate destruction of Lebanon's infrastructure and the deliberate starvation of the Palestinian people - "Putting them ( the Palestinians ) on a diet" said an Israeli cabinet minister.
"All the terror attacks have done by Muslims". Good God, man, what planet are you on? Does terrorism by the military might of states not count? Here's a bit of recent history for you: Iraq was invaded by the USA/UK, over 600,000 dead, 200,000 by the invading forces alone : Afghanistan was invaded in2001, 10,000 civilians dead and still counting : and of course the invasion of Lebanon by Israel backed by the USA/UK. Before the invasion of Iraq (illegally) in 2003, 1,600,000 died from the harshest economic sanctions in history - 600,000 of them children.
Is that not terrorism, the terrorism of the strong and arrogant over the weak?
The above is historic fact, but no doubt it will blow over you.
By the way you're well named.

# 77

"Back to the story"

You're quite right James. The appointment of Lieberman is what the article was about.

So what do the Israeli apologists think about this appointment?

Yorum any post Chris 72

The true meaning of the word Jihad is to strive with utmost effort towards a goal
and a Jihadist is someone who strives with utmost effort to reach that goal.

I thought you might like to see that Yorum as you seem to use both words a lot to describe Muslims.
And to you Chris because you obviously have no idea what the word meant in the first place.

Terrible choice

amazing that some1 from Glasgow, is up on what 1 Israeli cabinet minister,said to another....fly on the wall? This will be another Fact then! Might be an Idea to take more interest in our own Goverments doings in Iraq, bet there are loads of hungry folk over there,with little infrastructure left undamaged!U r admitting that the UK is responsible 4....hundreds of thousands of deaths,emmm now that sure puts the damage Israel has done into prospective then! Thanks for those figures!

"Muslim refuses compulsory service in IDF, he should serve time in jail. Same goes for polygamy and incitement against Jews or Holocaust denial".

......... Why on Earth should anyone be punished for denying the "Holocaust"?

It seems to me it is a whole lot less serious than lobbing artillery into the sleeping quarters of women and children.

Would you deny that?