It doesn't seem as if the apology was really wanted after all. Let us hear from the Muslims who are against the use of violence instead of all of these so-called Muslims who are clearly aggressive and appear to be inciting the ignorant crowds to violence.

so this incident, and the death of that innocent nun and her bodyguard, together with the torching of churches proves without doubt that muslims are tolerant.

so this incident, and the death of that innocent nun and her bodyguard, together with the torching of churches proves without doubt that muslims are tolerant

If Islam is a religion of peace, as Muslims continually maintain, why do so many Muslims get so excited to the point of violence at the slightest comment? Is it because the All Merciful Allah can ONLY defend his Almighty name through the violence of his people?

Muslims have shown to be evil.

We in the civilized west must teach/show them the right path, how to become non violent peaceful people, by killing extra 100,000 innocent Iraqis, and maybe even Nuking Iran. How about it ? thant should teach em.

100,000 dead : http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

Nuke Iran: http://torsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Coren_Michael/2006...

Is it just me or anytime something is said against the muslims, that they do not like or do not agree with, there is an outbust of violent protest and demands.

Proves to me that the medievil text was correct, the Pope should not apologise and the Muslims that are starting the violence take a good look at themselves.

Its PC gone wrong!!

"a day of anger" ?

Seems like many of the areas of the world are in need of a "day of happy" because every day is a day of anger.

It was a poor choice of text on behalf of the pope, who has apologized, but it is a horrible reflection on the reactionary elements of Islam who would use this as a means to justify violent action.

It is unfortunate that so many incidents like this are reported on behalf of a single religion, when religious fervor of any type, taken to extremes, has a bad reflection. There are as many foaming-at-the-mouth zealots for Christianity as there are raging Muslims. And before anyone says anything about religion at the point of a sword, let me just bring up the subject of the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the conquering and slaughter of the native inhabitants of North and South America, in the name of (Christian) God and Country.

You should all be thankful that you are not in America, where the Evangelical Christians are practically as powerful a force as the Wahabi form of Islam that preaches hatred of western culture.

problem for the rest of us is our lily livered government walk on eggshells for fear of offending thos of that faith, they are not bothered in the slightest about offending us though! A good example is the march through london protesting about so called offensive cartoons, placards calling for the beheading and murder of people were ignored by the police but a white man who shouted at them from his van was threatened with arrest.

The following headline taken from the daily mail shows how tolerant these people are.
A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

His remarks came during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral on a day that worldwide anger among Muslim hardliners towards Pope Benedict XVI appeared to deepen.

If they cant tolerate their own different groups of muslims, how can we ever expect them to be peaceful.
Look at the killings and bombings amongst their own people! Sadly the BNP will be on the rise soon as in Germany ( before anyone says if, no not the BNP but the equivalent), its only a matter of time, and this time people will start to vote for them

"why do so many Muslims get so excited to the point of violence at the slightest comment?" Because their faith, like most others, cannot hold up to the slightest scrutiny. That, and the fact that ignorance plays a large part in perprtuating relious violence. Just look at what happened in eastern Indonesia when 'christians' and muslims had a go at each other - total carnage. Education is the key to all, when people can think for themselves instead of letting others do it for them, then we might be getting somewhere.

A woman who had devoted her life to helping the (probably muslim) children of a war-torn hell-hole is shot dead, along with her bodyguard... Places of workship, most NOT catholic, torched, lives threatened...
Here is the only apology that can be made to the very insensitive and foolish choice of quotations made by the pope:
I'm Sorry.
My Fault.
I Forgot.
You're an Idiot.

I am confused, were the Crusades in response to a peaceful people minding their own business, or in response to an aggressive land grab? When the Crusades failed, how much of Eastern Europe was agressively grabbed? When did the Greeks lose half of Cypress? When did England lose London?

Here's the thing about Islam. You can't civilize a rabid animal nor can anyone tame a Badger. Like those two examples the only way to control them is to kill them. The only problem with the Crusaders was the weaponry, given automatic weapons and explosives we would have a most interesting dynamic in the world today.

So many people spouting so many things, it becomes pertinent that i clarify Islam and its view point.

1. Do not judge a religion by its followers, it is not a good yardstick.
2. Do not blame the whole community for the mistake of one.

Coming to the point of what the pope said, in context or out of context, the pope being what he is (the supreme religious head with a very very large following ) should have known that his actions and his utterance have lot more affect than us mere mortals. Leaving words half finished, without either condemnation or rejection leaves a bad taste, and speaks volumes to his line of thought and his intention. However, the response from the muslim world is also not something to boast about, a peacefull demonstration and diplomacy would surely have helped. But, again, consider the fact that most of the *violent* demonstrations have made more headlines than the diplomatic offensive (this is not an excuse, i still believe that the demonstrations, public or diplomatic should be peacefull).

Sometimes, i wonder, if the use of such speeches, cartoons or coining of new terms like *facisits* are intentinally used to elicit such a reaction from the lower strata of the muslim developing/under developed nation. It sounds like an ardent attempt to discredit a religion as a whole.

Now to the point of his speech,

What did muhammad (Peace and blessings on him) give to the world.
1. End to female infanticide
2. Stopped usury/interest
3. Curbed the menace of slavery
4. Gave women their just rights
5. Made a nation which gave the world so much that the world has forgotten that maths/numericals was from that nation

I could go on and on, however, it will be futile and have no affect on people with preconcieved notions. I suggest people read history, not just whats shown on media, before coming to conclusions.

I suggest books by John L. Esposito, Thomas Cleary and and visit some islamic

It won't be long until Sharia law is applied in Britain then you can all look out!

Syed,
Is shooting an innocent nun in the back, that is caring for Muslim women and children in the hospital, evil? Why don't the supreme leaders of Islam speak out against this evil? Did the press report that a supreme leader called for a day of anger? Wouldn't this spawn more nun shootings, church burnings and other evil acts? Mobs spin out of control without leaders in their midst that call for reason, and stand up for peace and restraint. Isn't a "day of anger" a call for mob violence and other evil acts? Why would a supreme leader call for such a thing? Is it part of his belief system, that such things are called for by God? Is this what all the controversy is about, whether it is part of the belief system of the religion itself? Wouldn't honest dialogue in this area offer a chance for self examination and reform? It does appear that mobs run roughshod over Muslims and Christian's alike in the Muslim world, to the detriment of both. Controlling the mob mentality seems to be the key to peace and progress in the Mulim world.

I believe Islam is a good religion. But, one element
within, i.e. the Muslim extremist group is destroying
the good image of Islam as a religion of peace. There's a big challenge facing the Islamic clerics to
show the world that they denounce the terrorist acts
by their Muslim militant brothers. To condone violent
actions will only prove that the Byzantine Emperor
text was correct.

Fred,
Was the Byzantine Emperor under siege by forces of Islam for many decades? Did he have first hand experience of fending off attacks that caused him to to make those comments? Is there something called the "House of War" in Islam? A search on Wikipedia, gives this definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Harb
"In the conservative tradition of Islam the world is divided into two components: dar al-Islam, the house of submission and dar al-Harb, the house of war."

Do modern moderate Islamic scholars still classify the world this way? Do they think we are in the house of war, 1400 year holy war, until submission of the world achieves peace on their terms?

Syed #17
Made a nation which gave the world so much that the world has forgotten that maths/numericals was from that nation.

I suggest people read history

I suggest you should practice what you preach, The maths and numbers that the Arabs brought to Europe came from India who were using it long before Muhammad was on this earth.

Syed No: 17

As much as I appreciated your posting in which you believe that a peaceful protest would be more appropriate, unfortunatley, the only protest I have seen from the Muslim population in this country was far from peaceful ie Kill, execute and other choice words used.(Cartoon Incident)

As to the first 4 points................They do NOT apply in IRAN and any other Muslim country........especially Egypt where female circumcision is in practice.

Point No 5. Having seen the Alhambra and The Mezquita (The Cordoba Mosque) and very much aware of the source of mathematics , it still leaves me wondering why, from being a cultured nation, we are confronted by what is near to barbarianism?
As far as I am concerned, those who shot the Nun, in the back, are nothing but cowards and murderers. Those who continue to burn, lute, behead, murder etc in the name of Islam only besmirch the great mathematicians, architects and philosophers of the Muslim past

peter

"..and maybe list a few of the things the Christian world has contributed..."

I'll tell the most magnificent contribution bought to the civilised world, by the civilised christian west.

THE NUCLEAR/ATOMIC BOMB! -

Which will one day, ofcourse end ALL humanity: thank's to the Democratic Civilised Christian West.

For #25 Aviation, Motorized transportation, Space flight, Telecommunications, Electricity, Food preservation, Medicine, Water purification, Oh yes and Democracy.

As soon as I heard what the Pope had said I knew the fanatical muslims would be getting their knickers in a right twist! It really is getting to the point of ridiculousness when reading something historical causes such fuss, and of course the quote is completely taken out of context.

I would imagine once again the muslims we see burning churches and the like probably have no idea what they are doing, just been told the Pope said something against muslims. Ignorance indeed.

And will the man who was seen on all tv stations calling for the Pope to be killed be dealt with by the police or would that cause offence to them too.

An interesting discussion. I wonder how many people have actually read the Pope's speech. It is a very interesting discussion about faith and rationality, Christianity and science. The reference which attracted so much attention is only a stepping stone in a more academic talk to his old university. The speech can be found at www.vatican.va, within the Focus section choose the first item Munchen and Regensburg, and look for the address to the scientific community.

Binny dear you need to take one of those wee pills the doctor gives you and go and have a wee lie down somewhere quiet.

Interesting to see the racists above in the "Christian" UK still in customary full flow. Part of the full racist complement going on just now.

Ps dont go reading "the Sun" newspaper, its journalists are not to be credited with any intelligence.

Tom
what is your point?

What did muhammad (Peace and blessings on him) give to the world.

1. End to female infanticide
not really a widespread problem in the western world, China, India, maybe... if this were a problem in the arab world, well that goes to my underlying claim that the practitioners of islam view the "just rights" of women radically different than the western view of EQUAL rights for all. more on that later!!!

2. Stopped usury/interest
you cant trace that to the inception of islam.. nor can you relate its absence to spread of islam. and you wonder why when you think of jews & finance you think of money. when you think of muslims & finance you think of abject poverty.

3. Curbed the menace of slavery
yeah that would be why islamic africa was THE SOURCE for western slaves until the west stopped purchasing african slaves in the mid 18th century (but then again infidels are not granted "full rights" under islamic law are they?).

4. Gave women their just rights
I noticed you didnt say EQUAL rights...
lets think about these just rights...
the right to drive a car? nope
the right to be seen in public? only behind a heavy veil.
the right to vote? nope
the right to speak your mind? nope
the right to govern your own body... a western idea, anethema in islam

I'm trying to think real hard about what "rights" islam brought to the table

the right to have your head separated from your body for thinking differently?

5. Made a nation which gave the world so much that the world has forgotten that maths/numericals was from that nation

maths and numericals? the muslims cant claim that one either... Arabian mathematical scholors predated Islam by at least 2000 years... (the 3 wise men of the bible alone were 600 years before muhammad, unless of course you are claming that his magic carpet was also a time machine)

one thing t

As I have already said for some who don't seem to know.
The Arabic numerals, 0, 1, …, 9, now in general use, are derived from Indian numerals. The name Arabic is used because Western Europeans learned about the system from Arabic writers.

The remarks the Pope made need no apology nor explanation. If Muslims want to go on their customary demos, ranting sessions and flag burning routines, let them. It was the same with the Danish cartoons. The hypocracy that flows from the Muslim world beggars belief. They should take all their 'scholars, clerics and imams and b*gger off to live in caves up some remote mountain and let the rest of the world get on with their lives.

Hey Tom,

Is it racist to be against female circumcision which generally leaves a lot of women with genital problems, genital pain, infection, shock..............IS THAT BEING RACIST.

You are nothing but a complete and utter prat.

I agree that Islamic laws, particularly Sharia are crap. Anyone who argues against this are in denial. I have heard young women say that they wear the headscarf to protect them from men(?) I would suggest then that the problem lies with men rather than women....anyway this aside does the Pope not have an editor or someone who proof reads his speeches that might have been able to say,

"Er...your holiness I think ye might hiv to omit the Mohammed stuff as there are a lot of fundementalist barbarians still in existence oot there..know whit a mean big man?"

Doreen >37

It appears that the Pope did have a person who did such a job but for some unknown reason the Pope sent him to work in Egypt. Anyway, the speech was academical and within an academical environment. If the speech were to be read in its entirity then many would realise that the man has nothing to apologise for. I am so happy that I do not lecture nor teach Theological studies. :)

Mairi, point taken but fundamentalists are not normally concerned with academia. As far as it being delivered in an academical environment is concerned, it does not matter because the fundamentalist nutters will see it as being given public airing. I am sure that, thanks to the press and being quoted out of context, the situation has been inflamed. But given the extreme reactions, murders and fatwa crap, that occured over the Mohammed cartoon business, I would seriously suggest that this was still not a good idea, not in the present climate. The Pope has a duty to his people, one of whom (the nun) may or may not have been murdered because of this.....and churches are now being fire bombed. There will come a point when pacifist Muslims will have to speak out, they will be forced to thanks to the atrocious acts of those who pretend they are acting in the best interests of Allah, but who are really discontented young men and women, brainwashed and out for a bit of action.

It's all about whose got the best ghost stories.

Doreen>

Agree with all that you say..........except that I would expect to be able to give an academic speech to academics without it being taken out of context. Appeasement, Appeasement by the barrow load. I would understand if he got up on his balcony or said the speech within a church...........so we all go round on tippy toes...........including him now. There is part of me that says.........No I will not rise to the bait. Then there is the part of me that says......it is about time to draw a line but being a mere mortal I think I shall just trundle off to bed........... and read my Harry Potter :)

It seems to me that if you say BOO to these people they'll riot. What I want to know is; don't they have a job? I ain't got time to riot everytime someone says BOO at me. These people need to get a life doing something other than praying, it's turning them all wacko.

I don't think the Pope should apologize. I think someone somewhere needs to stand up to these people and say, "No, I said what I said, I meant what I said, and if you're too bullheaded to realize what I really said, then screw you and the camel you rode in on."

Surprising amount of comments here. What the Pope said seems entirely innocuous to us - but why di dhe say it. Why use that particular quote?

Let's imagine that Christians, not Muslims had been illegally occupied in Palistine for the past 40 years. What would those Christians do (what would you do) if you were under such a brutal illegal occupation for so long and while the "free world" just watched it happen.

The Muslim world is by and large unimaginably poor, uneducated, and oppressed. It seems that religion grows out from poverty and ignorance. Religion provides hope, a reason to go on for people who have nothing.

If we really want to change the world for the better, we have to start my reversing the injurious foreign policy that has plagued these people for so many years. Globalization is not the answer for these people. healthcare, education, homes, food, human rights are what they need.

Nothing to apologise for. Muslims regularly threaten to kill we "infidels", that's a fact.

Islam spread its "word" by the sword. Fact. The first Crusade wasn't until 300 years after muslims murdered their way around the world. Fact.

If anyone does not abide by the laws of our land, then they can live in a country that has Sharia - end of.

200,000 murdered in Darfur. Stop the pinkos bleating about the "unjust" war on Iraq. Give 'em some cold, hard FACTS.

I should have prefaced my previous post with the statement that I do not agree with the Muslim radicals nad their stance against the Pope. In fact, it has been my experience that religion has been the root of most hatred and violence throughout history.

Before the Christians stand on their high-horsee let's not forget the crimes of the church over the past thousand years or so. I know the Christians will say: yes, but we've changed. They will also say that the Arabs are living in the past. They are uncivilized.

Well what do you expect. If that is true, there is a lot of responsibility for that one this side of the world. Weren't we boasting bout "bombing them into the stone age" a few months back? These people need progess (the good kind) and mostly hope. We are giving them war and hunger. Nice.

I just realize, I am angry. I am tired of listening idiots spouting hate and war. I am tired of legitimizing their extreme views with a considered response. At least when we so-called lefties spout, it's for justice and peace. We are certainly morally superior to these hateniks. An I would venture that if a serious study were done, we would be proved to be intellectually superior to them too.

No more being conciliatory, no more high-ground. That's what's killed the democrats in the last two elections: they had integrity. From now on, no polite nodding when a right-wing-idiot starts spouting off about the legitimacy of the war, or Bush, or Amereicas god-given greatness or whatever. From now on let's just ignore the right-wing-idiot posts - you'll never change them anyway.
Let's focus on discussing the problems intelligently. Whaddaya think?

NONSENSE!
Enough is freaking enough! YOu can't say anything about Muslims cause then they riot. Then the person who said the comment is blamed because there are riots and comments that people who insult Islam should be punished. Oh, careful it's your fault for making them riot. They can't help it if they riot you know. Yet, in the Muslim world, plenty is said about non-Muslims ALL THE TIME, yet the world turns and no flags are burnt, and imams are not shot. Even though most people never hear about it, though they wouldn't bother if they did hear.

Does that sound logical to you? It's always fundamentalists, fundamentalists, but really what religion in this world is always going around burning stuff and killing people the minute something is said? There seem to be a lot of Muslim fundamentalists around. Yes, not all Muslims are the same, there are moderate Muslims around making a life like any human being, but I do wish they would say something from time. All I hear is a deafening silence.

The fundamentalists seem to scream and burn things and shoot nuns. Yes, there are fundamentalists in every religion but do they get up to this level? I'm sure they all march out and shoot clerics of the offending religion on a regular basis. The pope says something about Buddhists and there they go rioting in Tibet, oh, sorry that has never happened.

Enough is enough. This is appeasement, this is ennabling behavior, it's never Muslims' fault. It's always someone else's (probably Israel, I'm sure the Pope's speech was a Zionist plot) fault.
Muslims are not the only poor people in this world. When have the Native Americans risen in Jihad? When have Africans risen against Muslims in Jihad for the atrocities committed over the centuries and still being committed?
I wish there was so much passion on the Darfur issue. Perhaps Muslims around the world would cry out in rage at what is happening to other Muslims in Darfur. There should be buring of fl

Moe, the Islamic world isn't the only one largely poor and uneducated. There's a whole 6 continents out there full of largely poor and uneducated people yet what do they get up to?

Lefties vs Righties

Left - angelina jolie
right - brittney spears

Left - Everyone in hollywood
Right - everyone in NASCAR

Left - most musicians
right - most accountants

Left - all comedians
Right - dennis miller

Left - anyone in education or the arts
right - anyone in politics or business

Left - benazir bhutto
right - ann coulter

who would you rather spend time with?

Anni, #46,

Thank you for the intelligent response. I agree with you that appeasement is not the answer. I am only saying that we need to begin by understanding the reasons for this situatuion and take real steps to correct it. Elements in the Islamic world are clearly nuts. But be fair, elements of the Christian world are just as nuts. As I said, how would Pat Robertson or Jerry Fallweel react if they were in their shoes?

The anser is not bombing and war or forced capitalism. IF the US had gone into Iraq with the goal or actually establishing a fair and democratic state, they would have had much more success. Americans never wanted democracy, or they would have had a hostile Muslim state on their hands.

We need to negotiate with Iran in good faith. That is to say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If we don't want them to have nuclear weapons, let's agree to dismantle ours.

They are not right, they are just angry, and no amount of bombing or hate is going to change them. Time for reconcilliation and peace.

Anni #47

Good point here. You are right. I have no adequate response. All I can say is, the bombing and poverty arent helping. We need a new way.

I guess what I am really saying is: so what do you want to do. Do we invalidate their religion and install secular US-friendly regimes? Do we install democracy in Saudi Arabia? Do we bomb them, sanctions? What is next? We need dialogue. This is not going to be solved in our lifetime. But I suspect, that with the right intentions, it might be solved in our children's lifetimes.

It's probably too much to ask but why don't those of you who have not read the speech in it's entirety actually read it? Yes, yes, I know, what a silly idea!

#51 Moe This is a Scottish paper And you are Canadian,and obviously not a Catholic, For a canadian you have to much to say on this Scottish post!!! I am tired of reading your comments about Christianity! and Catholics GO find a Canadian paper to vent your anger. Your opinion does not count here.

Emma, Thats not nice! Yer behavin like a fundamentalist bigot hen! We are all entitled to our opinions, hen. People should shut thier wee mooths if they canny be civil. Git ma drift? Go and have a wee valium sandwich washed doon with a wee cup of tea hen!

It is a pity that the muslims, christians and most of the organised religions base their life on a premise that being so fragile it is unable (or even at a push, unwilling) to sustain or accept any form of criticism or dialogue, if god (their's or otherwise) were so true to them and they are so sure about it, they would only react to criticism if they do not know that they are 100% correct ... there will be no peace on earth until the silent majority silence the vocal minority.

och hell, whits the point.......ah give in

Moe,
You make some very valid points on the political situation in the Middle East, but this issue has nothing to do with the political situation in the Middle East.

It has everything to do with a whole bunch of so-called religious fundamentalists who seek to deny the right of free-speech in the Christian West.

Last year a Danish newspaper published cartoons comparing the prophet Mohammad to a terrorist. The response of British Muslims? Go on the rampage in London, where the newspapers had already decided they would not re-print the cartoons, complete with placards reading, "Behead those who insult Islam!"

Now in reaction to the Pope's speech quoting a 14th Century Byzantine Emperor on Mohammad, a concerted campaign of violence is being conducted across the Middle East and Africa, which has resulted in the barbaric murder of a 60 year old nun.

Muslims living in the west have it easy compared to Christians living in the Islamic world.

Look around any major city in Europe and you will find mosques and "teaching centres." These have become fertile recriutment grounds for Al Qaeda. In Europe, human rights laws give Muslims the full protection of the law to practice their religion in peace. That is as it should be. Yet they are not happy.

In much of the Muslim world, Christians and Jews are not allowed to build places of worship. Christians face constant harrassment for practising their religion. Muslims who convert to Christianity can be executed by the state for their "crime."

Despite all this evidence to the contrary, Muslims expect us to believe that their's is a religion of peace and tolerance.

I would have a lot more respect for moderate Muslims if they condemned the violent response to the Pope's speech, but they just seem to say, "Well what do you expect?" Then they warn us to expect more suicide bombers if our country does not change its ways.

We expect that

Special report :

'A man with little sympathy for other faiths'

"Pope Benedict is being portrayed as a naive, shy scholar who has accidentally antagonised two major world faiths in a matter of months. In fact he is a shrewd and ruthless operator, argues Madeleine Bunting - and he's dangerous"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1875791,00.html

Binny,

Why haven't I realised till now? The murderous reaction by Muslims to Benedict's speech is wholly justified.

He needs to ditch some of those principles of his because not everyone agrees with him!

I am not a religious person and, in fact, I consider a great many if not most of the world's ills now and in past centuries to be down to so-called religion.

However, when it comes to sheer nastiness and hypocrisy one doesn't have to look beyond Islam and its followers to see how extra-revolting that particular religion is.

Peace and tolerance is NOT part of Islam. It is a mindless intolerant mindset where the only requirement to be a Muslim is to surrender the normal human abilities to use intelligence and be rational. It is a fairy tale world where the illiterate followers believe in nonsense such as 72 virgins in paradise as an attractive way of dealing with the concept of life after death. What pre-school rubbish.

I am certainly not Catholic but to threaten the Pope with assassination - and that is exactly what Muslims seem to have done - is absolutely neanderthal. And to shoot a defenceless elderly nun who was only trying to do some practical good in a country decimated by the very mindset that identifies Islam is beneath contempt.

The artcle also refers to a Quatari muslim scholar calling for a day of anger.

Surely the words 'Muslim' and 'scholar' are mutually exclusive? A scholar is usually someone who studies, and is an expert in, something serious, not Mickey Mouse fabrications.

#43
I can tell you what Christians wouldn't do, they wouldn't explode themselves in a mad ball of hate, premeditated to create as much pain and homicidal injury to innocents as possible. This is an act of evil. It has no justification and in no way can be justified. Muslims say it is in the name of God. Jesus did not explode himself on the cross to get his enemies, and didn't ask his followers to do this. To promise virgin sex for such an act would be even more evil in the eyes of Jesus. Would he have called this a sin and evil incarnate? Is this what the Pope was hinting at in his whisper of a speech regarding the subject.

I'm not catholic either... but if islam wants to restart the holy war... going after the pope (or the vatican)... well I'd think that would pretty much do it...

I'm thinking the technology gap alone would tip this not in their favor...

counting all the muslim academic scholors in the last century... well that aint gonna be the great equalizer..

(providing you could actually cut this down sectarian lines) pit all of christendom (1.5 billion) against the "mother of all battles" islamists (1 billion)...

Toss the Jews (half a billion) into the fray.... I'm thinking that these guys wouldnt fall on the muslim side... silly me...

I'm thinking that this aint gonna turn out well for the Islam world.... no matter how you choose up the sides...

and again I say... yooohooo muslim world... you probably want to reign in your extremists before they open that can of "whoop-arse"

cause when alls said and done no matter how you slice it I dont think its gonna be muslims doing the whoopin...

Let me quote British Karen Armstrong, a famed prolific writer on all three monotheistic religions, has criticized stereotyping the Arabic word "jihad" as merely meaning holy war.

She stressed that "Jihad (struggle) was not a holy warto convert the infidel, as Westerners believed, nor was it purely ameans of self-defense, as Abdu had argued.Mawdudi defined jihad as a revolutionary struggle to seize power for the good of all humanity."

[Karen Armstrong:The Battle for God; fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Isalm. p.238]