I fully agree with Fiona Brodie's comments quoted above

Which side would these people fight for if war broke out between Israel and Scotland?

where is fiona brodies comments ?...Why doesnt israel paint swastikas on their tanks because they are starting to behave like nazis....revenge and reprisals ...scorched earth mentality...go back to the 1967 borders israel

Its best that those with "Divided Loyalties" go where they think its better...If the jew does not wish to be Scottish Off you go then..Go and Occupy another little piece of Palestine.

Ronnie (3)

You must have missed Fiona's comments in the article, so her they are:

And Fiona Brodie, honorary secretary of the Glasgow Jewish Representative Council, said: "People should remember that not all Jews have the same view of Israel or the government's actions and not all Israelis approve of everything the government does, just like people have different views in this country. It's a democracy.

"I have no plans to move from Scotland; I'm settled here and it's home. It's important for me that Scotland has always been a friendly country. It's never had anti-Jewish legislation, for example."

In No Way was my Comment of some 20 minutes ago extreme.....Understand this

I have subscribed to the Scotsman for some 30 odd years.. Should you not publish my Comments ... You Maybe sure that instead of buying a mixture of theScotsman and an occasional Guardian or Independant... I will not be buying the Scotsman again as a matter of principle.... just as My Boycott of Israeli goods is a Principle.

I notice Sandy's question reflects one that I often find profferred as a polite form of anti-semitism. Anyone who knows their history will know that Jews have served in the forces of the Crown for 350 years well above the proportion of Jews in the UK - and then there is the Commonwealth and Dominions to add to that. The Jewish community boasts eight VCs and hundreds of other decorations. There are still Jews serving in the Armed Forces of Britain (including Scottish Regiments) and the commonwealth in substantial numbers. Many have reached high rank and our numbers include one major general in Canada.

As a very senior officer in the Army I consider Sandy's question dubious - the Jewish Community has proved itself time and time again in defence of Britain.

I think the Jewish community in Scotland has, both now and historically, a lot of offer the country. Yet we - Scots of all ethnic backgrounds - should remember that we are all Scots now, and must, if we choose to live in Scotland and call it home, make the welfare of Scotland and its community our first priority.

I am a Scot and have believed for most of my life to date that we are all brothers under God. I believed in the jewish peoples right to live in a peaceful existance. But now after watching various media I have come to the conclusion that the people I originally thought were the culprits, Arabs, are in fact the victims. One does not need to be muslim to see the murder and hardships the Arab people are suffering

It is about time we stopped listening to all the propaganda that is initiated by our silent Jew puppetmasters and recognize the holocaust and victimization of so many Arab people by the western governments, Politicians in these so called democracies have constantly turned a blind eye to the atrocities commited by the Jews themselves to ensure that corporate donations to their election funding is guaranteed.

I cannot for the life of me believe that a group of my fellow countrymen could have sat down in No.10 and agreed not to broker a peace deal until the Jews had gained more ground and bombed more children and innocent people who just want to continue with their lives.

The people of Palestine should be given back their country and the Lebanese should be entitled to live in peace and not worry if their children will be given the right to grow into adults who live meaningful lives.

Surely when it comes to the Jewish community in Scotland or for that matter anyway in the world. they have to support their beloved Israel against any country or terrorist group that attacks ISRAEL. the Terrorist quest for glory in the destruction of Israel is a well known fact. therefore when some people use sick innuendoes and vilification against Israel when Israel retaliates one can only say that such criticism against Israel is simply the last refuge of left-wing intellectual bankruptcy.

I read Mike's diatribe with interest - as soon as someone uses the words 'Jew Puppet' a phrase worthy of Hitler himself, we know what their inner thoughts are. I very much doubt that his opinions were changed by the media. I work with the media and know that the destruction wreaked on Israel is not being reported because the Katusha rockets are unpredictable and so the media don't know where to position themeselves to get the best photos and coverage. And there are less casualties because Israel has got its act together. If they didn't retaliate there would be more. One newsagency photographer has already been fired for doctoring his photos in Lebanon!

I don't suppose Mike commented on the constant rocket attacks on Israel - or the right to defend itself against Iran's proxy army (fact - even the media has reported that the Hezbollah arsenal came from Syria and Iran). It's a sad fact of war that innocents get killed - Israel issued warnings to civilians - Hezbollah did not! Israeli innocents have been killed too. We don't see the reportage of the child deaths in Israel (although the country has built a good bomb shelter infrastucture) and the devestated homes and hospitals. They don't make good TV. One could assume that there is still a feeling that the life of a Jew doesn't really matter among the chattering classes - but I couldn't possibly comment.

If the enemy hides in civilian areas what is one to do? Sit back and take casualties yourself or try to take out the enemy. If it hadn't been for the likes of Arthur (Bomber) Harris, now criticised by the liberal elite, WW2 might have gone on much longer. It was alright for the Nazis to destroy London, Liverpool and Coventry but our new intelligencia deems it wrong to have bombed Dresden! These are the same people who are now blaming Israel for the ills of the Middle-East. I have often been critical of Israel's policies but on this occassion they had no option. I suggest Mike toddles off

Some comments are uncalled for and laced with bigotry. I am a humanist, staunchly against violence, and believe in sovereignty of nations. Also, I'm matrilineally part Jew raised nondenomationally christian. I've been raised mostly in the US, and still consider myself 100% Scottish- Scots is my mither tongue. MY question to any group political, race religion etc is are you PRO Scotland. Are you for Fiscal autonomy and independence for Scotland?
That doesnt mean would you fight for your country or die for your country but would you LIVE for your country. If a nation asks its people to fight and die for it abroad it is imperial and fascist. Defending its immediate borders is defense. How many Scots have to die from building the BRit empire to present for Scots to wake up that our youth should never be cannon fodder? I am pro palestianian have a few arab friends, doesnt make me anti israeli. I support the statehood of Israel, many jews dont even support that and still call it palestine. Without a nation Jews have survived and built a free nation, it started with the terrorism. One mans' freedom fighter is anothers' terrorist. US colonial proindependence community tarred feathered and brutalised Brit loyalists, and interfered with British trade, today they would be called terrorist. THere are Jews that care for the plight of Arabs, and support a free state of Palestine. There are ISraeli's that refused to bomb civilian targets in Gaza. There are JEwish soldiers who refuse to be part of the occupation of arab lands. Jews are like Scots, Scots are for and against many issues pretaining to Scotland. Scotland is an ancient nation with out statehood. Jews are an ancient religion and people who have endoured much. And have statehood. It saddens me that many have become like their previous oppressors. Might isnt right, we all are children of God, one death accross a border is just as real as one within a nation's border, violence begets violence. The present fights

I totally agree with what Isreal is doing, why shoud'nt it defend itself against terrorism and threats from Islamic countries that want to blow them of the face of the earth. I am not Jewish but believe Isreal has a right to exist and defend itself.

Mark J @ 10 said:

"How many Scots have to die from building the BRit empire to present for Scots to wake up that our youth should never be cannon fodder? "

I'm not sure how long you have lived away from these shores but the British Empire does not exist anymore. In any case it owed a lot to Scottish influence. After union many Scots, especially in Canada, Jamaica, India, Australia and New Zealand, took up posts as administrators, doctors, lawyers and teachers. Progressions in Scotland itself during the Scottish enlightenment led to advancements throughout the empire. Scots settled across the Empire as it developed and built up their own communities such as Dunedin in New Zealand.

James @ 8

There are some Jews who do not support all of Israels actions - there were orthodox Jews on the recent peace protest in London against the war between Israel and Lebanon.

Sandy's comment questioning the loyalty of jews in a war - would you apply the same principle to the Irish and Italian descended communities of Scotland? Jews are as proud to be Scottish as the rest of the population. I'm glad Martin put him right on that one.

As for Mike (Edinburgh's) rant - I think you have been reading too much of Hitler's Mein Kampf recently!

This article seems to have prompted a very interesting debate, with some views being expressed that may not be appropriate to the political mainstream. However, I have always felt that Jewish/Israeli identity and politics are extremely pertinent to the British/Scottish dichotomy and have often used these in discussions in the past.
It is surely worth celebrating that Scotland, as Fiona Brodie, states, has never had anti-semitic legislation. I don't know whether this means that Scotland has never legally discriminated on racial or ethnic grounds.
However, this surely begs the question about emigration to Israel on the basis of Jewishness. Adam Jacobs comments that Israel's 1m Arab citizens enjoy "all the rights to public services" that other Israeli citizens enjoy but in the next paragraph we are hearing that "Jewish" males must serve in the Israeli Army. Presumably this implies that Arab males are not obliged to do this (although not necessarily that they *may not*? I suspect that you would need a lot of preliminary screening to serve as an Arab in the IDF) Surely in a so-called military democracy such as Israel this is a key issue?
The state of Israel must be seen as a historical example of positive discrimination in action. The Powers at the end of WW2 decided to grant the Jews their racial homeland on the basis of centuries of persecution culminating with the Holocaust.
It is now, however, commonplace to hear comparisons between the behavious of the Nazis and that of Israel and I don't think that this phenomenon can be simply written off as "last refuge of left-wing intellectual bankruptcy".
I would like to propose that so-called positive discrimination measures can never be accorded validity if they persist for longer than a generation. That way, we wouldn't still be defending Israel and the exclusive right of Jews to a racial homeland, on the basis of the Holocaust. However, convenient this may be to so

All I know is my heart goes out to all those poor people suffering in Iraq. The killing goes on daily. The people in Israel, and Syria have been fighting for years.Quote, from the bible.Kings: Chpter. 22) And they continued three years without war between" Syria and Israel".?? The point is the Jews and the Arabs have been fighting for thousands of years. and have managed to pull the world into their deep seated hatred for one another, and between them they will kill us all. I wonder if perhaps the real reason "Adam Jacobs" is off to find his Jewish roots and to fight for Israel is that he does not feel connected to "Scotland" to go and fight in Iraq with other young brave british soldiers. who are out there fighting ,and dying in Iraq and in Afghanistan. "No Adam you are not a true Scot ". Your ancestors did not fight and die for Scotland!! You should go back to your rich heritage in Israel. You will not be missed. I guess your to good to fight for Scotland. and you know fine well that the British regiments over in Afghanistan are grossly out numbered, and badly need reinforcements. I am not anti anything. I believe in justice and try to see both sides of the scales . Life would be much nicer and safer if we could all live in peace and not fight these horrific wars.

Never mind which side he would be in if there was a war - there is a much more serious issue at hand - what will he do the next time the two football teams meet?
After 5 years of me living in Israel the Irish team came here for a world cup qualifier and I found myself all decked out in green white and gold roaring "come on you boys in green"
I'll argue with every Irishman that ever walked that face of the earth in defense of Israel but show me a green shirt and I'll abandon all loyalty and call the Israeli football players by all the names of the day for daring to even think they are worthy of a meeting with the green army - go figure!!!

Phil is so right ! Anti-Semitism if for fools . Jews everywhere are as different from each other as is any other people .Jews are a mixture of races . I attack the religion and individuals,but forebear any attack on any Jew just because she is a Jew. Jews and Scotts both have contributed to humanity [ Some people are both.] If ione is at peace with herslef, she should be at peace with any people .Why be a fool?Why subscribe to long demolished ,irrational beliefs? Why this faith? This is peluccid!

I'm beginning to see the pattern with which articles the powers that be in Scotsman.com allow to be commented on. They first must be able to promt one to leave negative comments about either America or Jews. I would have thought the knifing of the young man deliving Milk would have been something better to comment on, but I guess the bias against America and Jews won out again. Would be so refreshing to have something NEW to read comments about.

Maybe enlightenment will finally reach the dark shores of Scotland.com?

With the recent conflict between Israel and Hezbollah we are lead to believe Israel is the victim. Maybe we sould ponder on the following UN report.
Reports submitted to the Secretary General and the General, the Permament Mission of Lebanon to the UN reported 529 violations of Lebanon Sovreignty between December 1st 2005 and May 31st 2006.
December 2005 96 violations reported,
January 2006 61 violations reported
Febuary 2006 72 violation reported
March 2006 110 violations reported
April 2006 51 violations reported
May 2006 139 violations reported.
As for the present ceasefire, Israel landed commandoes into Lebanon the excuse being they were stopping arms from Syria reaching Hezbollah. Sunday August 20th 2006 Israeli aircraft have flown the length and breadth of Lebanon in violation of the ceasefire
Also we are constantly reminded by our government and it's compliant media how the Arabs want to drive Israel into the sea.
'It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish state without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands'
Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, November 15th 1998,
Ponder on these verifiable facts and make up your own minds who are the real victims.

To Tommy number 14.

You are infact wrong about Arabs not being part of the Israeli Defence Force. There are many Arabs that serve in the IDF- and infact there is a famous unit of Trackers that is made up mostly of Beduins. Also Druze Arabs serve in the IDF.

Can I also note that it was NOT Adam's direct quote to say that Jewish males must serve, it was the journalist.

To all of you who like to comment on Israel's right to exist and right to defend itself need to go and take a good history lesson on Israel since 1948. We were happy with what the UN gave us (which was mostly desert and didn't include Jerusalem)- it was the surrounding countries that broke out in war with Israel. Is it Israel's fault that they not only defended themselves but pushed the countries back? Does that mean that the countires after defeat get to say "oh, we really wanted to quash and you but can we go back to the ways things were before we attacked you?"

We are really not interested in being in Lebanon but if the Lebanese government had done what they were meant (6 years ago) and not pretty much left the south of the country lawless out of fear of Hezbollah- we wouldn't be faced with this dilemma now. In answer to Mike number 7- people who want to go about peaceful and meaningful lives do not keep rockets in their homes, back gardens and farms etc. (documented found in scores of homes in South Lebanon). Also, they do not house and hide terrorists.

To Adam Jacobs True Scot and New Israeli citizen- good luck!

Hi Rachel,

Irrespective of who said it, can you confirm whether (1) ALL Jewish males *must* serve in the IDF (yes/no)?; (2) Any Arab Muslim male *can* serve in the IDF (yes/no)? and; (3) What kind of selection process would an Arab Muslim have to go through to join the IDF?

For example, if I was young, male Israeli Jew and converted to Islam would this act make me exempt from serving in the IDF?

Of course, I don't mean to imply that it is easy to answer such questions. My point is that it is insane to even consider such criteria.

warm regards

Tommy

Tommy - I think you are confusing rights and obligations.

Contrary to your believe Tommy. how can Israel in your own words 'Reconstituted Itself' when it is surrounded by Arab countries that want to see Israel destroyed in other words erase from the map of the Middle-East. yet. when Israeli Armed Forces retaliate against the enemy which attacked Israel as seen with Hezobollah Terrorists we had Blair's Foreign Office Minister Kim Howells saying on BBC TV that the bombardment of Southeren Lebanon was nothing.but. an over kill and wanted America to urge restraint on Israel. surely what did Howells expect when Hezbollah Terrorists were using Towns and Cities as missile platforms. without doubt in time of 'WAR you find your friends and your Enemy. recently someone said next time Israel could use a nuclear weapon.surely why use such a weapon when even conventional mass attacks too can cause widespread havoc. didn't the raid on enemy cities like Dresden and Tokyo during the 1939-45 war actually caused more casualties than the two nuclear bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together. sadly as long as there are Terrorist groups like Hezbollah in the Middle-East there will always be a division into VICTOR and VANQUISHED and always Israel must be the Victor. until some Arab countries forget their one aim of view-----the defeat and dismemberment of the State of Israel. and until that day comes it will be for the Jews one great tetanic struggle for victory and to avert a human catostraphee within Israel. it cannot be overemphasize Israel must defeat Arab Terrorism at all 'COST'. and Israel must put up with all the hysterical polemics and naive anti-Israel propaganda.

There is a lot of interesting feeling and points being expressed in these comments and predominantly from two sections of society; the Jews and others mostly opposed to Israel's programme of expansionism.

I am an agnostic and any views that have been imposed upon me in infancy about religion stop short at the church door. I have no objection to anyone who chooses to believe that somehow they are religious or have a hot-line to God but I do object to the propaganda that's being spread like manure in the hope that it may fertilise division or support for the Israelis.

In this current conflict two points seem obvious; one is that Israel continues to be intent on its expansionism programme and is piggy-backing on the US (with the tacit consent of Europe) in achieving this aim. The other is the obvious, that the US is seeking to draw Iran into the war so that it can bomb its nuclear sites or didn't anyone notice this moot point? The poor Arabs (third-world countries) are just the bait!

Whenever mention is made (as it has been above) of Germany's attempted destruction of London, Liverpool, and Covantry (cannot see where the connection is to this current crises) then why ignore the biggest bombing disaster in the UK during WW2; that of the Clydebank blitz or is this too far from the centre of UK poilitics to be recognised?

WW1 also witnessed the British holocaust when thousands of soldiers were ordered to their certain death by their own generals, yet one seldom hears of any constant bleating about those two disasterous events. I wonder why the difference?

History seems to tell us that the Jews left Egypt around 4000 years ago; I wonder why, and would they choose to go back?

Its not surprising but a little stupid of the likes of the Jewish represetative councils to blindly support Israel. What about the Jews of Lebanon, many of whom see Israel as an aggressor for destroying their homes? What about the Jews of Iran? Democratically represented in parliament and resistant to efforts to resettled them in 'the promised land'.

Anti-semitism is alive - against both the Jews and Palestinians that the term 'semite' properly describes. If given a choice, i'd rather live in Israel than Iran but it's obvious that religious mania, bigotry and blatant disregard for international law and human rights thrive in both nations.

Seon - where do you get your information? As far as I am aware there are less than 100 jews left in Lebanon, mostly in Beirut, so it seems a little unlikely that their houses were destroyed. I do not have proof of this matter but I think the fact the the lebanese jews are victimised by hizbullah, with kidnappings and murders etc makes it highly unlikely that they live in neighbourhoods where hizbullah are situated and since these were the areas of beruit targeted by air strikes it seems that your claim is highly unlikely.

I would like to see the article written by Murdo Mcleod if this had been a young muslim saying he was going off to fight in some Muslim Army.
SAAS has been paying his uni fees so he should be made to pay back the money for not finishing his degree and going off to another country to 'lay down his life'.
While I am on the subject, it is quite amazing that so many American politicians in high positions, have dual nationality with Israel.
I am def. not anti semitic but when there is one rule for a certain group of people and another for the rest of the world...I have to wonder!

17. Rosy, we would love to see a list of those American legistors and politicians who have "dual nationality with Israel."

Myth: America is populated with people who are also Israeli citizens.

Fact: There are numerous arab-americans, and members of other ethnic minorities, who are also citizens of some other country besides this one, because of the laws of that other country.

Fact: All Jews have the right of return to Israel, which was set up by the UN in 1948 to be a Jewish state.

Fact: There are 5.2 million (as of 2000) Jews in the United States. Nearly half of them live in the northeast (New England, New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland.)

Fact: There are 6,114,500 Jews in Canada, the USA, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Central America.

Fact: If your mother is a British citizen and your father an American, you have dual nationality at birth because of the laws of the respective countries.

Fact: There are many Americans who are also citizens of other countries, where that other country's laws maintain their citizenship rights, just as there are Britons who hold dual citizenship with some country besides the UK.

Fact: To become a naturalized citizen of the US (in other words, moving here from some other country with the express intention of becoming a US citizen), you have to renounce your foreign citizenship. But as far as your former country is concerned, you may or may not still be a citizen, depending on that country's own citizenship laws.

Sorry, I mean 27. Rosy. My comment above was in answer to 27.

Rosy (27):"...it is quite amazing that so many American politicians in high positions, have dual nationality with Israel." Elections are coming up soon here in the US. Please post for us your accurate, reliable list of those politicians. We'll be waiting.

...and waiting...

As a matter of fact, there have been several muslims who are US citizens who have been arrested for violating terrorism laws. One of them walked into a Jewish community center in Seattle and started shooting, killed one woman, wounding six others, one of whom was pregnant. His reason, he shouted, was his hatred of Israel.

Some of the muslims arrested here for crimes against the United States have been citizens; some have been foreign nationals. Apparently they all put their hatred of Israel and their love of radical Islam above any national or even humanitarian concerns.

When members of any Jewish radical group such as the Jewish Defense League break the law, they are arrested as well. There is no double standard here, Rosy. No US citizen, or foreign national residing here, is above the law.

You have the right nicname Fruitloop,. One can ,indeed ,criticisze America and Jews ,but one ought not lie about either . Bigotry is so stupid! Read what I said about Jews[17]. Why do bigots want so desperately to annoy us ? I think they want attention so badly. They should get counseling so they will get along with the rest of us .How about that Mary Jo?

nickname We need to be intolerant of the inolerant tolerantly!

James, #24, unfortunately I am also sceptical of Israel's ability to reconstitute itself as a modern, non-racist state. Thus it seems likely that this will eventually happen as a result of interference by outside powers. It would seem sensible for this to proceed according to international consensus (if this term ever comes to mean other than "what Washington wants") than from Israel eventually imploding due to pressure from its hostile neighbours. What we need is a statesman of the calibre of Nelson Mandela and some fortuitous historical circimstances - perhaps the end of the era of Middle Eastern "Black Gold" and the "Great Game" of geopoliticking that has accompanied this era.

Take a good hard look. The people who criticise Israel, the only secular democracy in the middle east, and a moreover a modern state, have obviously not visited the region. These are the spiritual descendants of Chamberlain et al., who sought to placate Hitler in the late 1930s, minimizing the threat and attempting to justify national socialism.

Those who fail to understand the past are condemned to repeat it. The bad news is, they carry the rest of us along with them.

Alison, #23, I deliberately conflated rights and obligations because it is customary in political philosophy for these to be seen not in terms of the distinction between them but in terms of their being balanced in the person of the citizen, and in the constitutional law of the state which guarantees the rights of the citizen. I personally think it is obscene to think that one can have rights without obligations or vice versa.

"Two proud nations" is part of the headline for this story, Why is it even a story? From reading the daily reports on this source it is hard to see much of which scotland can be proud, although we have many proud people. As for Israel, Proud! proud of what? Hopefully one day Adam will mature and really see what he has embraced.

Dr. Fruitloops... I wish I could disagree with you totally, but the sad fact is either you are absolutely right or you are absolutely wrong. Or so you and they would have us believe.

C'mon, it's not that simple. I don't have a problem with these people taking the 'roots' trip. It's no more of less relevant than Ronald Reagan's Irish trip or that less conspicous flow of made-it-in-the-westers going back to places the US DON'T like, eg Russia, Poland, China, Japan. (oh sorry I forgot you like Japan this week)

There have been plently anti-the-other-lot comments posted two you know. The trick is only to see the half comments you agree with, the trap to see only those with with you disagree.

I can't help but think though that if the Scotsman were to run a story about Mr. and Mrs. Ahmed closing their Takeaway Restaurant for a fortnight to go on a roots trip to Beirut, they'd have MI6 on the phone before the ink dried.

on dear did I really say 'two' instead of 'too'? Humble apologies to all!

Just to say good luck to Adam, I bet he wouldn't have bothered had he known the fuss it would cause! Most of it coming from Scots who have hated their English neighbours for centuries. But that is another story...............

Scotland has the advantange of NOT being surrounded by mobs of murdering followers of Mohammed and a paratial immunity to the degeneration of the English who have lost their will to survive as a people and a civilizaton.

Perhaps, that is why the Scots regiments are being phased out of existance by the Labour Government, that slave to Islamic propeganda and aggression.

To #38 William, regarding Adam, more and more Jews, young and old realise Israel's politics may not be 100%, but then which country has the best political strategy. USA?? NOT. Sadly, anti-semitism has risen to high levels across Europe including Scotland and lets not forget the part Scotland played with the Nazi's in WWII. Adam has made a decision to live in Israel so be it. He is not a suicide bomber, he will not fly planes into towers, he will not inflict Jewish law on any person, or for that matter consider them infidels. He will defend's Israel's RIGHT to exist. Adam. . bless!

Not a popular view however here we are.

I for one hope the all go..fuck off fast... the lot of ye.

SCOTLAND FOR SCOTS

As a Scottish Jew some of the comments here are the best advert for aliyah (emigrating to Israel) I have seen for a while. I consider myself fairly left wing but cannot understand how the left and feminists ally themselves with Hamas and Hezbollah who are fundamentally anti semitic and anti female. Israel gets many things wrong but the criticism of it is completely disproportionate. How come the genocide in Sudan excites far less comment? Or are black Africans less important?
Good luck Adam. Your mum can be very proud of you.

To Ian 41; This is a Scottish newspaper what do you expect? We have no hate of the English, we are one and the same, in fact I do not think we hate any other group of people or Country, ( I do not speak for soccer fans). James 42; We have more Muslims in Britain than there are in Israel! Until recently we -the British- were known for our reputation of fairness and honesty, such a policy ensured a sense of 'acceptance" to all who settled in the Country. That fairness has been demolished by the Blair doctrine, now we are seen as nothing more than an extension of "Uncle Samuel". As for Israel, they created their own island of "hostility & hatred" by stealing the land from simple indigenous peoples. What else can they expect? Conny 42; Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the role Scotland played with the Nazi's. Also perhaps you can describe the difference between a suicide bomber and an Aerial bomber! That is, one who is willing to die along with the victims as opposed to one who goes home to watch a basketball game afterwards!!

May Israel's Arabs enjoy full status and be seen ! They are Israelis also . We should hear them .We should honor all people of the region.And Darfur is important also . Other regions of hatred are important also. Rationality calls for good relations . All the faith movements of irrational hatred are evil and stupid . Reason beckons, but so many go for hatred and lies . Yes ,mobs of fanactics do not threaten Scottland ,but terrorists can . Most Moslems are good citizens . Some cooperated with law enforcement in exposing the would be attack. [ I think that Mohammed himself was just another religious quack . See ' The Transcendental Temptation " of that a nd about other quacks.]

William, 45. "we do not have any hate of the English" I did say that it was another story............but, Scotland is a country - you are obviously from another planet, the same planet as the the Iranian leader no doubt.

Re your comments Rosy (27) when some 5 countries attack one country. in this case Israel.would you support the 5 bullies or the underdog.

Derek 44 flies the unfortunate but common 'if-you're-not-for-us-you're-against-us/a terrorist/anti-Semitic/all three' flag in his post - now hear this: to be opposed to Israeli actions in the Middle East DOES NOT automatically make you a Hamas or a Hezbollah supporter, ok? (and what have you got against feminists anyway?)

And Martha 32 (aka Pollyanna) - COME IN! 'No US citizen, or foreign national residing here, is above the law.' - except for George W Bush, eh? (and many many others...)

james 48 - israel, a nuclear state bankrolled to the tune of billions of dollars by the US, supplied with arguably better military gear than 'British' soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, and largely unaccountable for its criminal actions over the years is hardly the underdog...

Thinking, compassionate Israelis, Americans, and UK citizens should feel great shame over the current actions in the Middle East perpetrated and supported by their governments.

Scottish independence now!

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism. And Enantiadromia is a word that suits the behaviour of the state of Israel very well.

Maestra 49 I didn't say to criticise Israel was anti semitic. However the explicit support for Hezbollah by some eg on the Stop The War march is support of anti semitic organisation. The lack of criticism of Hezbollah who hold 2 seats in the Lebanese Government is somewhat strange particularly if you read some of Nasrallah's statements. However anti Zionism can be a thin disguise for anti semitism. Look at Mike's comments.

I was surprised that so many of the people identified
as being Jewish, including, Fiona Brodie, have Scottish
names. I wonder why ? Whatever, good luck!

21 Rachael, re To Adam Jacobs True Scot New israel citizen Good luck " Explain the definition of a TRUE SCOT "?? if you can! ----- I notice how you dont mention the TRUE Scottish and British soldiers that are FIGHTING and DYING for Adam's freedom so that he may pick and choose where to live at this moment in time . Thats his choice where to live, He is not just going back for a holiday to check out his roots like "Ronald Reagen" HE is going back to join the Israel army, and not the British army. Thats the point. On the contrary I have nothing against the Israel people in general It would have been better for this twit Adam to have gone over there quietly and kept his mouth shut instead of advertising it to the world "What does he want a medal."For Ian #41who is hiding in Bordeaux, comment! 'Most of the fuss is coming from Scots who have hated their English neighbors for centuries" . Oh! you have lived that long to know the full history of the Scots! "Pray tell me What did poor little England do to rifle up such hatred for the English! Well for starters take Saint "William Wallace." the battle of cullodan' The bloody english would not let Scotland live in peace, "Why" because they were greedy they wanted Scottish LAND! and to control it The english went into Scotland at that time with the best of weaponary to butcher and massacre the innocent Scots, in the dictionary: MASSACRE<: The killing of many persons under cruel or atrocious circumstances. A wholesale SLAUGHTER! The Scots faught back with sticks, and stones and home made weaponary. that's why they are called "Scotland the BRAVE!!!!! Does this not sound familiar. in the MIDDLE EAST! Poor souls fighting back with stone age weaponary against high tech weaponary . laser guns high tech tanks.Having said all that I think mankind will never be free of wars .There does not seem to be a way out of the Middle East crisis-a hopless

38. william "Two proud nations" Yes William, "Pride the ever present folly of fools"

dr fruitloops of the wide wide world if you cant even give your name and location..then dont put your tuppenceworth in ...and william of los angeles if scotland ever got as bad as l.a, id leave...ive been in in louisiana for the last six months watching what bush and co have done to the people of new orleans ...

To #16 John.clovenfords

Thank you John! You said what needed to be said and you said it well.

As a New Yorker who experienced September 11th in my city, I fear for the U.S. if we are considering you Scottish people our allies. The impression I have of you is that you are cowards who prefer to attack your smallest and most harmless minority than address the problem of your huge, unwieldy and violent Muslim population. It seems as well that your much-touted educational system has failed you because none of you seem to be able to discriminate between responsible, objective journalism and the kind of bigoted garbage you soak up courtesy of Reuters, which depends largely on Arab stringers for its doctored photographs. By now, the fact that Reuters and your other news feeders have concocted their photo-ops of Israel's incursion into Lebanon has made the rounds of the international blogosphere. What should be considered a criminal act--the widespread journalistic fraud of the BBC and other news organs that grossly exaggerated Israel's "war crimes"--has gone unquestioned in your country. I don’t recall British people being so concerned about the Irish civilians their army massacred in cold blood for peacefully demonstrating in the 1970s. Or the Argentinian sailors who perished on the Belgrano in 1982. So you’ll have to pardon me if I view your criticisms of Israel rather cynically. “Rosy” and “Sandy” are good examples of that age-old calumny that “Jews don't serve in the militaries of the countries in which they live.” My grandfather, who was a U.S. citizen and never lived in Britain, served in your army in "the Great War" in something called "the Jewish Legion," put together by Jews of Russian origin. My grandfather and his brothers were all Royal Fusiliers officially and were honorably discharged after having served. Many members of the Jewish Legion were sent to Gallipolli and some were killed there. So much for your moronic claims that Jews don't serve in your military. And it’s high time you Brits divested yourselves of this rid

Ronnie Ray, thanks. Cheney -Bush have taken care of the rest of the nation the same way -favor the super rich and certain companies. They are reactionary here and bungling abroad . Bush is 'AWOL " in Iraq as he was in the Air National Guard! Surely, Brown won't follow this maladministration . May all people of the region have peace and prosperity. They all deserve protection . Israel ,Palestine and Lebanon sould be at peace and should with Jordan form a common market.We wooly-head liberals want that.

D, 58. Scotland is a great place to visit albeit a bit expensive. A lot of the people who express their views in the Broadsheets are unrepresentative of what most Scots think. If you read the letters page of the Herald or this stuff you'd think most people hate Israel. My impression is that that is not the true view of the Scottish public but rather a small amount of the intelligentsia who have been seduced into believing that being liberal minded means being anti Israel.

I used to wonder when Israel was the topic in a forum, how there were so many people ready to big-up the country. Now I know. I received an email about a site which alerts you at least every 5 mins to forums discussing Israel. It even suggests what you might say and gives addresses so you can write to various groups and people. These people know how to manipulate the media and are very coniving. My hat comes off to them even though I think it is devious and 'sleekit' Trouble is not all of us are as dumb as they would like to think and the number of enlightened people is growing rapidly.
The israeli media show hasnt got complete control of the internet yet unlike the rest of the media, so they have to rely on the diaspora to fight their corner.
Just b4 I go I would also like to point out that Israel have imprisoned the democratically elected palestinian first minister saying he is a terrorist...as was Sharon (wanted for war crimes)and many other israeli politicians. pot..kettle..black?

Derek: I hear you but I think this way of thinking in Britain is more common than you might want to think. If it were not, people would object to being fed these highly distorted news stories. I don't see any non-Jewish Scots acting as the voice of reason in this column. You call these people intellectuals, Derek? Wow! That's pretty scary. They don't sound very intellectual to me. More like German Nazis. Perhaps that's why they all seem to spell so poorly in English and have little respect for the rules of grammar.

For real peace to occur in the Middle East two things must happen. The Arab world including Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran must accept that the existence of the Jewish state of Israel. Concurrently the government of Israel must accept that the Palestinians must have a viable and meaningful country. Sadly Araft had the opportunity in January 2001 to create a Palestinian country with even some control over East Jreusalem but he refused the deal, preferring to allow Hamas and the Hizbollah to instigate the cycle of violence that we now see.

Umm, Marion, I don't know what planet you're living on, dearie, but all those Israeli leaders you've labeled as terrorists, such as Sharon, were jailed simply for participating in the Jewish Army, the Haganah, which the British were very happy to make use of during World War II and thus saw fit to pardon and award medals to "former terrorists" such as Dayan. As far as you not being dumb is concerned, I think you'll have to work a bit harder: The Arabs have a huge propaganda machine in many different languages. I only speak, read and write about four of them but I know there are many more out there. People like you make me wonder why we Americans were so willing to lay down our lives to save you people from Hitler. He's got you anyway it seems.

here we go again...the yanks saved us from hitler...but you gave us bush. Not once but twice! and you have the gall to question our intelligence? Away and bile yer heid!

D, The Nazis seem to interest you. Is it because there is no difference in the way they acted to the way the israelis act today?

I have to go now. blackhawkdown is on and I want to watch the yanks giving it to the muslims...LARGE!!!

Marion:
Right, Marion, turn and run just as you Brits did in the Pacific in WWII when we rescued your fellow Commonwealth-ers from the Japanese. You go and bash us all you want. I hope you get it from a Muslim, which seems to be what floats your boat. You really are a moron if you compare Bush and the Israelis to Hitler. I notice the rest of your countrymen have the good sense to have shut up at this point.

I have never been more proud of my brother [Adam] for making this huge act of commitment and dedication to the country we love. Our family has been in Scotland for over 8 generations, I may not be as "Scottish" as everybody else but I was born here like you, and I am just as proud a Scot as you are. My mums father and dads father fought bravely and risked THEIR lives for YOUR freedom against the nazis in Germany, who killed the equivalent to Israel's population in Jews. You people have short memories and how dare any of you be such a disgrace to compare a Jew with a nazi.

You call my brother and anyone who wishes to move to Israel a scumbag for wanting to live there? It does not surprise me with the hatred we are met with in this country. My ancestry did not fight and die bravely for Scotland's existence, they fought and died bravely for Israel's and the Jews' existence, even before 1948. Does that not give us the right to wish to move there? Would you not want the right to return to Scotland if exiled?

Josh, I admire your respect for your brother and I feel he, like all of us, should be able to live where he wants. There is one point I would like to queston you on. How do you equate Adam whom I presume is Scottish, with an exile? and how can you argue that point when the palestinians have no right of return? I ask these questions not out of malice but out of curiosity.

Just to inform everyone...You Should realise how courageous Adam is in telling the media about his story and acts as an example to all young Jewish people in Scotland..He should be admired not criticised and abused. He is will be followed by many as an example.
D.58.....64...68....You seem to be enjoying time here. Referring to 58 in particular. I saw that you were in New York on 9 /11 and witnessed all the horrific events. I did the same in Glasgow and believe me as I was sickened as much as you. I completely despise Islamic terrorists for tarnishing my religion. However , you made a grave mistake in abusing my religion collectively like you did.
" unwieldy and violent Muslim population " Any Sane person would classify this as a racist remark. You are not aware of the difference between Arabs and Muslims. You are insane to think sitting in New York that the BRITISH Muslim popualtion is unwieldy and violent. Some British idiots carried out 7/7 bombings horrifyingly but that in no way makes the entire popualtion violent. Get Your facts right before typing up insane remarks.

rosy: if you look at history, the reason jews are scattered over the planet is due to the fact we were exiled from our homeland: Israel. second, there was the partition plan for israel, where the two states would live side by side, with the jews having a majority of the negev [useless desert lands] and we would not have any part of jerusalem, our most holy city in the world. we accepted it. they did not, numerous nations attacked us! we pushed them back and have continually given back "land for peace," however, we gave land and recieved rocket attacks and kidnappings and suicide bombings. do you wish to allow a person that wishes your death into your home?

Hashim, #71
First of all, there is a difference between race and religion and I think you should get YOUR facts straight before you tell me to do the same. If you are Muslim and you do not speak up against your fanatical brethren who carried out those attacks on 7/7, then you invite people to generalize about your religion. The problem with you Muslims is that you always want to point the finger at other people, ie. the Israelis, the Americans, etc to excuse the actions of the criminal lunatics you classify as "martyrs." You have the entire British nation obviously running scared that if anyone so much as dares to speak up against you, you could burn or explode their country. This is what more honest Scots than the people who have contributed to this column have told me. Here in America we still have a population that has a sense of its own survival because we are a tough people and, with or without some lousy international coalition, we will not allow such a takeover in our very multicultural society. Be glad you live in Britain where you seem to have a stranglehold on the politics. And do please learn the difference between race and religion. Muslims choose to be Muslims. Jews don't necessarily choose to be Jews, as the identity has a strong ethnic component to it. This is what Hitler's Germany proved and what all these "brave" Scots who are writing in here are also proving.

Josh 69; In your case you should be proud of your brother. The fact is niether of you really understands -or are not ready to- the underlying reason for so many peoples anger with Israel. YOU have no right to go there you are not an Israeli in fact probably 95% of the residents of Israel are Israeli only by name. From your post YOU are as Scottish as most residents of Scotland. We, the British are such a mixed up race having roots in many parts of the world including Arabia. For any of us to suggest we have a right to return to those places is clearly unreasonable. I'm not sure if you meant what you said about not being surprised about the hatred you are met with and that your ancestry did not fight for Scotland etc. You are clearly angry at some of the vile postings, quite rightly so. But none of us, or our relatives fought for our Countrys' existence, we fought because we believed we were the good against the evil! That will always be a contentious point in every war. I would recomend you find a book written by a Scot, Rex King Clark, "Free For A Blast" it is a must read for anyone interested in the Palestinian/Israeli issue.

D, New York City, That WWII thing your talking about, is that the same as the WWII that you guys waited till almost the end of befor you showed up for it in France, or is it the WWII where you traded off half of Europe so there wouldn't be a show down between you and Stalin? and through everyone into a cold war for the next forty or fifty years or no maybe it's the WWII where you dropped TWO ATOM BOMBS on cities full of Men,Woman and Children ? I suggest you watch one of your own PBS stations and catch the documentary 'WAR LORDS' your like so many of your fellow americans,
nobodies right but YOU ! Since your inception as a country, there has not been one year that you where not invading or bombing someone on the planet. before you decide to rant at me I would advise you to get Educated..even if only with a TV. documentary

D, New York City "The Arabs have a huge propaganda machine" ??? My god ! I guess you must have a soar neck, it seems you can't look in your own back yard.

D 58
Thank you very much for not coming to Scotland.

D NYC, your arrogance and hatred just inflames, and stereotypes you as "arrogant yank" . Remember the name of this newspaper. While you were so busy being "educated" you seem to have missed the whole tolerance and respect issue.

To All:
I note many comments from those Informed and those Uninformed. No matter what your Ethnic Trace or Religious connection, too many all around the planet seem to forget, or ignore, or have never known of the fact that the LORD God made a promise, (which He could not breach), to Abraham, to make a great Nation of him through his descendants, and one of his descendants, (through Sarah, not Hagar), would be a Blessing to the entire world. "Those who bless you, I will bless. Those who curse you, I will curse." God must also honor his promise to Abraham through Hagar's son Ishmael, that they be as numerous as the sands on the beach. BUT, there is no promise of a blessing through a descendant of Ishmael, the Arabs.
What we have here is the continued war between the sons of Ishmael on the sons of Isaac, Ishmael being described as "a wild ass of a man."
Who will win this war? If you are in doubt, stay tuned, but listen and read the Media reportage with a keen ear and eye. It makes me laugh out loud when I see so much Blah-blah in ink and sound bytes about a "Middle East Peace Solution." Stand up and take notice: Mere men cannot bring this about. Yes, there will be a certain Treaty, but even that will fail. Only with the return of Messiah (Maschiac), ie, Abraham's Blessing Decendant, will true Peace in the Middle East become reality. The additional benefit will be true Peace throughout the rest of the world too. Forever!

Aw shucks, Jacqui. Thank you for pointing out that I'm an "arrogant Yank." You know what? I'm proud of being such because at least I have courage which is a lot more than you have. I'll bet you're part of our public education system, too--I just have that feeling, with your overly patronizing tones and your ridiculous attitude that if only we're nice to others, they will be nice to us. And I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to the name of this "newspaper." If you're speaking of Scotsman.com, I've learned some perfectly appalling things about Scottish people through this commentary and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to save my time and money for better places and people. These clowns don't have the slightest clue even about their own history and that amazes me because I always thought we Yanks were the worst. Charlotte, I can only repeat and then I'm signing off (because this commentary is as mindless as it is pointless) that you people owe to us the fact that you weren't bombed into the 21st century by the Germans in WWII and far from waiting until the war was "almost over" we shed a heck of a lot more of our own blood than you people did--and we didn't have to. And as for the Cold War, I might be inclined to agree with you if I could understand what you were saying but you're so inarticulate that I can't be bothered to waste the time trying to translate into plain English.

#79 You forgot to mention that YOUR armageddon involves the total distruction of Israel which Bush and his advisor Billy Graham, Blair and people like you are working towards. It makes me laugh at your pathetic ravings. All Jews should be wary of evangelicals as you appear to have conned most but not all of them into thinking you care about them.
Me, I am a secular humanist who believes in the dignity of all members of the human race. I do not believe in your god, the jewish god yaweh, nor in 'mine' Bel' the god of the Celtic people.
Where was your God jaweh during ww11? Busy doing other things like?????????????
You should keep your fears and superstitions to yourself. Let go your fear and live a little. The fable of Christ was taken from the fable of Huros, an Egyptian, whose miracles are documented in the Museum of Alexandria In Egypt. He 'lived' 2000 years before Christ. Of course there is absolutely no proof that Christ ever lived.
Peace will be made when the majority of MEN decide that it is not worth the loss of life for the sake of a piece of land.
I couldn't think of a worse fate than living ' for all time' with people of your ilk.

D you have courage ?

d/new york...another anon whos frightened to give his name ...got news for you pal hitler didnt invade the u.k...operation sealion was cancelled ...that was in 1940 and the u.s didnt come into the war till 1942...so get your facts right.....I dont seem to remember israel ever backing america in any war...in fact they shot up the uss liberty during the 7 day war killed dozens of u.s sailors...and they knew who they were shooting at..israel thinks it has carte blanche to do what it likes in the region..completely over the top attacks on the lebannon....how many u.n resolutions has israel broke ? saddam broke 23....israel must be near 70...if the u.s people were told the true story of what the u.s gives israel in tax dollars ...I think they would have a lot to say...between the jewish owned media and hollywood they are the biggest liars on the planet covering it up.....Israel americas pitbull in the middle east ...Blair americas poodle in europe

would D/New York care to say if he holds Israeli citizenship as well as American.?
Which country are you loyal to?

ohch D from NYC, why don't you comon over, and show us some of your "courage" and you can spout your yankie dogma, in you ever so articulate way, the other girls and myself would love to meet up with you on a sunny Glasgow street.

Considering that the '24' clans all derive from ex-pat Jews fleeing the sacking of the Kingdom (Roman protectorate) of Judah in the 1st century AD - I should think there might be more in the Scots bloodstream wanting to help the land of our ancestral home.

I fear that political correctness is going to destroy everything our ancestors gave their 'all' for.

[my ancestor's, Campbells of Argyll, got subverted by a few turn-coats and got relocated and later came to the 'colonies' from Derry]

Rob 86. I would dearly love to know just where you gleened that bit of information about the '24' clans from ? If you could be as specific as possible, I would love to read it myself, I know about "the sacking of the Kingdom (Roman protectorate) of Judah in the 1st century AD." As for "the '24' clans all derive from ex-pat Jews fleeing" this I've never heard of...and I do want to keep up on things.
Thank-you

Many people get confused over the concept of Zionism and Israel. Jewish and concerned Christians who love Israelrefer to the nation as Zion, thus they are considered Zionists. In Scotland for instance there are many Catholics. Are these people disloyal subjects of the Crown simply because they may swear allegiance to the Pope in the Vatican? What about Catholics in Germany, are they disloyal citizens simply becuase they may share allegiance both to the Vatican and to Germany.? There are manyJewish soldiers in the British Army and I can assure you that they are very loyal to Britain, No.Ireland, Wales, and Scotland. These Jewish men and woman are also loyal to their faith and to Israel as well.

Josh # 69. Of course you are going to defend your brother, that's what you are supposed to do. but wait! didn't you just say that your mum and Dad's father's fought and died for my F-R-E-E-D-O-M. in one sentence, and in the next sentence, you say "your ancestors did not fight and die for SCOTLAND'S existence. but they fought, and died for Israel and the Jews existence.Your words!! 8 generations????? I wonder? Heres a thought Why dont you and all your family go to Israel and join Adam. Now if you and your proud brother were to sign up and join "The SCOTTISH REGIMENT and fight with all the other SOLDIERs and not to forget the brave American SOLDIERS who are doing real FIGHTING, and real DYING out there in the mountains of Afghanistan, and Iraq. Then I am not interested in your brother's self glorification.I just heard on the news that Israel has expressed that they do not want any soldiers with them unless they are Jewish." Now what does that mean"? Who is the prejudice ones now. "Were your family part of the slave trade back then whealing and dealing the poor Africans and not to mention the Irish people too. buying and selling indigent people. I am a realist. I see things for what they are. It's ironic that the Scottish goverment pays family allowance all throughout the child's life until he grows up and then He leaves to Join the Israeli army I think your family OWE BIG TIME $$$$$$$$$ back to Scotland after all it helped to raise Adam and you, Josh. ROSY 70 You have a good point there. D 58) We really did appreciate you and America's help duringWW2. We could never have made without your brave SOLDIERS. THANK YOU.!

I think the time has come to re-locate Israel to somewhere in the USA. I believe the Iranian leader has a point when he says, "Why punish the Palestinians for the crimes of the Nazis?".

Surely a gross exageration to describe the beseigers as besiged?

thankyou robert and everyone, all i get here are either americans or jews defending and making excuses 4 their country, both are colaborating together to widen their powers and wealth, how ? by destroying a country and trying to get it's oil, they are labelling others as terrosist and axis of evil when they are trying to protect their country, if you read the oxford dictionary, neither hazbollah, syria or iran fall under the catergory, but israel and america does fall under this catergory, go on people have a look in the good book. i am an aussie syrian and proud of it, i was born in syria and came when i was only 4, which country would i fight for ?, well if i had to if australia wasn't involved ,for syria first , but if for any reason australia was sending troops and i was there then i would identify my target and if it's an aussie or the peace keepers then i would never shoot and i wouldn't make the mistakes the israelis have. if jews can go to israel and fight arabs regardless where there from, and kill regardless, then i would do the same,i am sadened by our prime ministers and the british butt licking to bush, they are a disgrace and should stand up to bush and stand up for human rights, israel will have syria and iran to deal with, and watch out for the chinese for they will supply their weapons to all these countries and will continue to do so, if israel can get arms from america why slag the syrains and iranians, why not slag the chinese thats where there all coming from, but they won't cause the israelis know they would wipe them off the face of the earth.
NOW, ANY JEW OR YANK READING THIS, I AM A WESTERNISED ARAB, WATCH OUT WE ARE TRULY FEARLESS AND TAUGHT BY ONE OF THE BEST TRULLY MORAL ARMY MAYBE LEFT IN THE WORLD, THE AUSTRALIAN ARMY, WE WILL COME OVER AND KICK YOUR BUTT, I AM ALMOST THERE. i don't like violence and never used it, never, but i am being pushed by seeing the lebanese children and women senselessy being slaughtered by the israeli

#79, get a grip on life, why does "GOD" favour jews more than anyone ?, for god is to favour everyone equaly,i am a non believer in anything but i know logic. there is good and bad in all, so for all the bad ( the jews), the good will stand up one day and cast you out forever, only then we will have true peace.

sorry people, australia, britain, ireland and the scotts are very moralistic soldiers, and maybe a few others, but israel and most yankee's, no way. they are both the most arrogant people in the world.

I am sorry that a Scot would fight for Israel. It begs the question if Adam Jacobs is a Scot. If a Muslim went to fight for Iran he would be accused of treason. Is Adam Jacobs a traitor? I am sure the young man is very sincere in his motives but in my eyes you cannot claim to be citizen of one country and fight for another.
In the 60s and 70s I thought that we should all support Israel but after many years I now believe that the land should be given back to the Palestinians. This does not solve the Jewish issue.
The Palestinians may allow the Jews to remain in a secular state called Palestine. I would also encourage the US and Europe (including Scotland) to allow mass immigration from Israel once the land was handed back to its true owners.
Israel has been fighting for 60 years for its existence and it looks like they will be fighting another 60 years. Even then they will not achieve peace.
The UK needs to review its policy towards Palestine and Israel. The setting up of the Jewish state of Israel was a mistake and should be reversed. The US and Europe need to accept that we have not solved the Jewish problem by creating Israel and that we have to find a better solution. As a first step we should allow the Jews to come home. We should encourage the Palestinians to develop a secular democratic state and encourage them to allow Jews to remain.
We will not solve the problems of muslim fundamentalism until we solve this fundamental problem. Israel was not the right solution.
I have also notice that anybody who proposes this type of solution is accused of being anti-semetic. I do not accept this accusation and suspect it is used by some as a scare tactic. If I am accused of being anti-semetic it does not matter as I will not change my view nor my willingness to express it.

Ricardo @ 96
I fully agree with you mate. Anyone who doesn't wish to be Scottish should leave. Same for the Irish, Welsh, English, all those who make (Great) Britain their home.

So I take it you'd also apply this rationale to the Muslims too? But where would they go back to? As it is a religion, they'll be Scottish Muslims, English Muslims, et al. We've seen Muslims oppose Britain's War on Terror, Britain's foreign policy, Britain's attempts to identify potential bombers (suicide and otherwise), Britain's involvement in this that or the other.
So, where would you send them to? Iran? Syria? Indonesia?

Robert Park - why the Jews left Egypt is not such a difficult piece of information to find. It is in the bible which no matter what our religious belief, or lack thereof is generally accepted as a historical document (probably in Exodus although i'm not 100% on that)

Mike (7) Does Israel not have the right to defend itself? The country has been under attack from extremists for a long time. It is not as simple as giving the Palestinians their country back. Historically both sides have claims to the territory and there is no point now more than 50 years after the creation of the Israeli state saying that the Israeli's should go. A peaceful solution needs to be found. As long as Islamic suicide bombers keep walking into Israel and blowing themselves up in the street killing innocent people then Israel has the right to defend itself.

Can't believe some of the comments on this website. Israel has every right to exist. Saying that the Jews should be moved elsewhere is just feeding the problem. The Palestinians and the Jews need to be able to live alongside each other.

# 101 Come on Flora. the start is to give the Palestinians back their land. When the U.N. 'approved the state of Israel the Palestinians were NEVER consulted. I wonder how you'd feel if your home was bombed and bulldozed (by American equipment of course) and then you were sent with your children to one of the luxurious camps provided by the Israelis where you could rot in filth. I think that you are using the non-de-plume of Flora Macdonald as it's obvious that you are either Jewish or a Born Again Christian from your letters. And YES the Palestinians have a right to exist in their country and not to be occupied by a an extension of Americans called Israel.

Yes the Palestinians have a right to exist but so do the Israelis. The Israeli constitution does not call for the destruction of another country

I'm not Jewish or a born again Christian.

Some great debate above, especially some of the outright and disguised anti-semitism, anti-Islam, anti-American and anti-English comments - it is a shame that a country (Scotland) that thinks itself so tolerant is seen to be quite blatently intolerant. Mind you, you only have to be aware of the long history of bigotry between protestants and catholics to dispel this. Little wonder that it fails to attract immigrants and that many of its people leave (including me).

It is shame really as it is a truelly great country that has vastly contributed to the world far in excess to its size.

Anyway, lets just put a few things right here:

a) Jews are the same as any religion - there are mostly good and a few bad. There is no global conspiracy for jews to control the world or the press (correct me if I am wrong, but Rupert Murdoch is not jewish). Generalised steriotyping should be condemned everywhere - it is outright racism,whatever the religion - and that includes towards the vast majority of British moslems who are as proud to be British as any other religion.

b) Saying that jews who serve in foreign armies must be traitors is nonsense - all Scots have been doing it for centuries and very well too. Just remember who founded the Russian and US Navies - Scots. Have a look in Africa for the past 50 years - there are always hundreds of Scots mercenaries there - we have great soldiers. Anyway, it is compulsory in Israel so there is no choice - in Scotland we are lucky that we do.

c) Adam Jacobs can do or go where he likes - it is a free country. Sadly, he is just one of many Scottish emigrants who leave it for a better life. Did you know that Scotland is the only European country whose population decreased in the 20th century? It is a fact of life, whether you go to traditional Scottish destinations like Canada, NZ, the US, S.Africa or even HK. You can't just ask everyone who leaves to pay back their schooling costs - lets be proud that Scotland

Right Michael. I agree. But when the U.N. resolution stated that Israel should pull back from Palestinian lands ( I think it was 272) Israel ignored that resolution completely and many others as well. Do you think that bombing and bulldozing Palestinian homes is going to make the Palestinans want to be friends? Instead of following the American way of saturation bombing, talk to the leadership of the palestinians instead of saying " they are terrorists, we won't talk to them." You should know that Menachen Begin was a terrorist--part of the Hecht gang that blew up the King David Hotel in Egypt in 1947 and was elected him the Prime Minister of Israel. So Israel must endorse terrorism.

Talk can end the fighting. Bombs will not.
I did note that Israel breached the U.N. resolution for a cease fire in Lebonan only yesterday by again bombing and dropping commandos into that country.
That is the problem that Israel has. it's word cannot be accepted. I'm sure that there will be a million reasons trying top justify that despicable act.

Then Flora I think you're believing the media too much. When reading a report one should always look at the person writing the report and ask themselves where does this person get his/her information from? Who is this person? Do they have an Israeli citizenship ? if so what country are they loyal to?
How can a 5th generation Scot/English or Irish born citizen be loyal to foreign county? Rationally thinking people do not want the destruction of any country. Only religious fanatics and idiots do. Please read # 107 above. Remember there were several BRITISH nurses murdered in the bombing of the King David hotel-- probably some Scottish.
Israel invades other countries on the pretext of defense while kidnapping legally elected M.P.'s from Palestine. What is worse suicide bombers or Israeli bombers ? The Palestinials do not have tanks, F-16 American fighters/bombers or smart bombs ? So to fight back they have the suicide bombers-nothing else. While not agreeing with this one can understand why this happens and will continue to happen as long as Palestianians are treated inhumanely.

David your posts are full of half truths. The UN resolution which I think you're referring to is 242. That is worded in such a way that Israel is to withdraw from occupied territories NOT all occupied territories obtained in the 67 War. In any case the resolution states it is in return for peace. Israel has withdrawn from Sinai and Gaza. There is no sign however of peace.
To suggest that Israel by electing Begin 30 years after King David endorse terrorism is like saying any freedom fighter or terrorist elected means the electorate of that country endorse terrorism. This would arguably include South Africa, Cyprus, Zimbabwe, and countless others.
If, as Israel claims, more weapons were being delivered to Hezbollah it was entitled to go in since the resolution specifically covers only offensive and defensive actions by Israel.
THere is evidence incidentally in the King David bombing that the British ignored warnings. Doesn't justify it but it is not clearcut. It was a military target since that's where the British forces were stationed.
Have Israel arrested the Hamas prime minister as claimed? They hadn't last time I looked although it may be matters have moved on. Not a good idea if they have although the fact of his election doesn't entitle him to argue for genocide. If you want to check that out look at the Hamas Charter.

to#106-willie-expat-Glaswegian/ H/K.Yes Adam Jacobs can go and live where ever he chooses, and yes Scottish men have gone to fight in other countries that were at war. However our men are fighting very hard in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the British army are in short supply of men. The British soldiers are over worked and completely exausted, and they are in badly need of reinforcements. He could just as easilyhave signed up to go and fight with the British boys, but he chose to sign up for Israel! And by doing this he has shown his true colours He is a loyal traitor to Scotland. It's factual that in WW1 the british and Scottish high ranking officers "SHOT "men who would not fight for their country. Back then we would not be talking about this man because he would have been shot with the other traitors. You say Scotland is the only country whose population decreased in the 20th century.I'm not suprised if people like him as soon as they are of age run off to Israel and help that country to prosper by producing his off spring there.and give his Scottish education to another country. Scotland is not a spring board. We are family minded people and we take pride in our heritage which goes back thousands of years.It' easy for you to voice your opinion from china if your name is willie as you say. speaking of names #102 Flora Macdonald: You must be at least 200 years old because we dont use that name for our children I dont recall any children with that name. It's old fashioned. Flora is jewish. a lot of jewish people adopted Irish, and Scottish names after the holocaust to protect themelves and it was easier for them to do business. To hide their I D It's dishonest but some people have to do things to survive.

Paul @ 110
He is not going to Israel purely to sign up for their armed forces. He is went to "be closer to his roots" and to "explore his heritage". Being conscripted is a part of that life he will have to deal with.

If you are so miffed that the "British army are in short supply of men", then why not campaign your local MP to try and reintroduce conscription? I'll join...

And by the way, I do know a Flora, and she is not Jewish as you seem to assume.

to #103 David Well said you are spot on Flora is jewish! you are right on the money with your comments.#95 viper Well said. #96 ricardo Well said397 It's true about the British holocaust, it's all but forgotten. A footnote I cant forget that morning in the news, seeing all those poor people old, young, women, babies, children, holiday makers. in Lebanon uprooted and trapped there for days among the dead,Why?thousands left homeless and the country has to be rebuilt if ever.That poor country was just getting back on it's feet. The little respect I had for the jewish race is is completely gone now, they are no better than the terrorists. "Adam "when you are all decked out in your Israeli green army outfit holding your American high tech laser gun, and other high tech gear straddled on to you . "Why dont you get a nice photograph taken and send it home to mum "She willl be so proud of it .Who knows maybe by then you would have killed a few innnocent lebanese people. and you can brag about that . Seriously though I am sure you mean well and it's a very noble gesture. The only problem is it's for the wrong country . In my eyes you have deserted my beloved country "SCOTLAND " for that i will never forgive you for being the little traitor that you are.After this post you are not worth talking about . I would rather focus my attention elsewhere.

to # 111 He had 22 years to get in touch with his heritage There is also the internet He could have gone for a holiday and I would think he already has done that. As for his roots his brother implies that his family have been in Scotland for 8 generations. I would imagine that they would have roots there. It's true the men are putting up a very difficult battle in the mountains of Afghanistan,and they are worn out. Im ' sure you would join. as for myself I would have to but I'm older but I do what I can to support the soldiers,My cousin's son is over there in Iraq. and my aunt's son was shot in the back. and they are very young ."You say you know a flora and she is not jewish: What i meant was she is not Scottish. "Flora Macdonald" together is a made up name. no one would use that name unless they live in the upper hebridees and even they would use Gaelic names.A lot of people on this post do not use their own names and my point was she is one of those people . She is jewish hiding behind what she thinks is a Scottish name . She thinks she is being smart by using a non du plume name. so she can defend her race which is fine but she should not be ashamed to use her own name. instead of pretending to Scottish when it is Obviously. she is not Scottish. if you go to post 103 someone else also pointed that out. so we are both of the frame of mind. She tried and she got caught. that's that.

104Michael "The Israeli constitution does not call for the destruction of another country" may not, but there Generals do..

#111 Dick, Sorry about last sentence it should be. If you go to post 103, you will see that someone else pointed that out so therefore we are both of the same frame of mind. She tried and she got caught that's all.

Willie, #106:

Thank you for calling me an "ugly American." I'm sick to death of you British people and your Yank- and Bush-bashing. Yes, we did bail you out in WWII and we started long before Pearl Harbor sending you planes, tanks and materiel--and we never asked for you freeloaders to pay us back. How's that for "ugly Americans?????" You perfidious British people waited until long after Munich before you so heroically saw Hitler's danger to the world. What about all those poor Czechs you betrayed? We had more than twice the number of men in the field that you did and we sustained more than twice the number of wounded. You had a slightly higher death statistic, but one would expect that since your German buddies bombed your civilians-in-uniform. WWII was won by Yank generosity and Russian sacrifice. Next time I hope we don't bother. You Scottish people are Nazis anyway; I say let Hitler or Nasrallah have you.

Poor dear little Israel, full of devout folk who just want to be left alone to do their own thing.....

1 Compared to Israel's land area of 1948, at the present time (excluding Lebanon and Gaza) Israel occupies 1080% more land area. (Yes, that is more than a ten fold increase)

2 Since 1967, the US has given Israel:
USD$120,000,000,000

(About 14,000 Pounds Sterling for every Scot)
(Each year Israel receives more US aid than do all of the starving sub Sahara countries combined)

3 Since 1967, the US has given Israel a similar figure in military aid.

4 Additions to Israel since 1948.
The West Bank
The Golan Heights
The Shebaa Farms
East Jerusalem

5 Figuratively speaking, water is more precious than gold in the Middle East. The largest aquifer in the area lies in the West Bank--that is, outside of Israel. Israel has taken control of this aquifer and pumps virtually all of the water off to Israel proper leaving very little for the Palestinians. Israel shut down all arab wells in the West Bank.

6 Whilst every Jewish home in northern Israel possesses a family bomb shelter, the same does NOT apply to arab families who live in Israel.

7 Some time ago the Israeli government censored the BBC, banning all BBC reporters from working in Israel. Presently it is considering doing so again.

8 In the US all associations that work actively to promote the interests of a foreign country over and above the interests of the US, must register with the US government and be closely supervised and controlled to prevent spying and other subversive activity against the US. Sounds reasonable.
AIPAC (the American Israel Public Affairs Committee) is a vastly powerful and wealthy group that coordinates pro Israeli voting tactics and the donation of huge amounts a of cash to pro Israel politicians including free trips to Israel for US lawmakers and their wives.