enhanced by
Bookmark:
Here we go again. What will it take to punish violators in the strongest possible terms - sanctions are a good first step, condemnation by all nations, including those who claim to be the torchbearers of democracy and the rule of law (read the US, Britain, Canada).Add one more outrageous to the countless others that have been perpetrated in the name of self-defence and democracy!! What a cruel joke on the law-abiding nations of the world and people of conscience.
truth is israel does not want peace, they prefer to exterminate moslems and want to increase the size of israels borders, unfortunately britain and the us seem to agree that they should.
It is about crimes agaist humanity
The trump card. my "Allah is Great", another mantra "for the Glory of God", or 'Jesus , Lord and Savior'
Do you know that Phaeroh was God. And that the Shah of Iran, as well as present day Emperor of Japan are Gods. That the word God imply ruler over living conditions, with no other worldly authority.
Some criminally minded individuals use the word God to drive ignorant and trusty people into commiting crimes against humanity, by adding atriute to allah that are not there.
The Lord taught simply " walk in my way and be blameless"What do our ministers in the churches and mosques do: in my case my wife was raped for the Glory of God, and took Jesus her Lord and savior to become the Temple Prostitute" [her words] and was used to cover up child melestations by a church elder in court. And the court and church covered up the rape and sexual abuse of children. in 2006. in the USA.
What is going up in Lebanon, and the rule of Law, All you need is to look at the propagenda about the Party of God to justify the acts
It is all hypocracy of the hypocrites. But where do you find compassion?
Human compassion, to my thinking, is what the Lords wanted to institute among people. Doing by the dictates of your heart and conscience, and take care of your neighbor's needs. You find this only in Israel. Every religion is about prostitution, robery, and slogens.
How do you correct it? It will not stop, until there is a mass movement with more money, and more vigurous propagenda machine. But until then, read Wickland's scientific reseurch 'Thirty years among the dead'. Society will put all the preachers of christianity and islam in Jail when it lookes for the truth.
" the more things change the more they remain thesame" Israels aggression continues - as this rogue nation thumbs its nose at the global community ,carrying out a commando raid in Lebanon and kidnapping the Palestinian Deputy Prime Minister.No doubt all this still with the blessing of the U.S. It seems the sign posted on the rubble in Lebanon labelling sameas " Product of the U.S.A" have it right.
The deputy PM happens to be a member of Hamas, which is a recognized terrorist organization even by EU and so his place is in jail.
The raid was in response to continued flow of arms to the party of Allah, which was in violation of 1701.
Or would you like Israelis to just watch rockets falling on them?
#5 take a look at the full-list of resolutions not just 1701http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_c...
Perhaps ppl would be interested in these as they provide information on the UN resolutions blocked by the US.http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htmhttp://www.action-for-un-renewal.org.uk/pages/isreal_un_r...
Jack, Canada - "Here we go again. What will it take to punish violators in the strongest possible terms - sanctions are a good first step, condemnation by all nations, including those who claim to be the torchbearers of democracy and the rule of law (read the US, Britain, Canada)."
Oooo! Strongest possible sanctions! Condemnation always is dreaded by Israelis and radical Islamists, especially the "double-deploration with vigorous hand-wringing" type-condemnation. Then it's back to the UN to debate more debate on the "violators". Then we can be treated to Leader of Absolute Moral Authority KOFI expressing his "disappointment and true sadness" about in time for the next slugfest.
Yoram,violation of 1701
And what of UN Resolution 242? Can you give us your 'take' on it?242 is not the only outstanding Resolution.
The violations by Hizbollah of the U.N. resolution have been clear and blatant. Hizbollah has warned the Lebanese Army not to try and disarm it. It has already intimidated members of the Lebanese Army. It is already attempting to receive new missiles from Syria and Iran( The Israel military action was taken to prevent this) against the clear article in the Cease- Fire resolution which prohibits this.Its leaders are already preparing another round of violence against Israel, and have reportedly sent large numbers of its militiamen into the South. The U.N. ignores all this, and is one- sided in blaming Israel for exercising its right to self- defense.
James NZ - Israel wants to increase the size of her borders - so where does the fact that Israel one year ago disengaged from Gaza and is currently in the process of handing over parts of the West Bank come into that theory?
Dear Scotsman Editor,
Please stop using the word "STRONGHOLD" when Israel attacks a Lebanese Village, Town or City.
When a rocket lands in or near an Israeli town, it is never referred to as a "STRONGHOLD" even though most of the adult population are members of the Israeli Military Services.
Call it what it is...===========In another Failed operation, Israeli Commandos were caught trying to launch a Raid on the LEBANESE VILLAGE of Bodai, near Baalbek, IN CLEAR VIOLATION of the UN Ceasefire. Baalbek is North East of Beirut, approximately 70 miles from Israel.
A Katyusha rocket (,with a range of up to 12 miles; that must have been fired from Inside Israel, or delivered by truck,) landed in a Civilian Area of Haifa... (Not a Stronghold)
Another Rocket landed in a Field on the outskirts of Haifa. The Rocked would have to have been launched from an area occupied by around 75 Israeli troops PER SQUARE MILE, at least a tank and a few APC's and Mobile Artillery Units PER SQUARE MILE. The same 20mile x 15mile area is patrolled by dozens of Helicopter Gunships, Manned and Unmanned spotter aircraft, Photo Recon aircraft, Satellites. (Not a Stronghold)
The Israelis Targeted, Bombed & killed innocent Civilians in Beirut. .... (Not a Stronghold)
This is a war for religious and world power....a crusade
Time to pick a side because we in America have...
my chain bears a cross.
The Lebanon Government and the Palestinian Government (both have many terrorists on board) twin ideoogical obsessions are'Political lies' and 'Paranoid hatred' of the State of Israel. even the UN forces on the border of Israel/Lebanon from Africa don't believe in the State of Israel as for France that also is Anti-Israel.but Pro-Arab. this shows how obnoxious the so-called UN road map is.actually i would call it the crooked road map.which will sooner or later lead to another WAR in Lebanon.therefore because of the mess we see in that part of the Middle-East the result of the UN incompetency in allowing Hezbollah to build up a vast stockpile of rockets and to build many deep bunkers and miles upon miles of tunnels along the border of Israel/Lebanon right under the nose of the UN.therefore the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan should resign.
As for the France.i wouldn't trust it as far as i could throw an elephant. didn't WINSTON CHURCHILL sink the French Fleet in Alexandria because it would have been handed over to Germany. during the 1939-45 War.
10. Shalom Freedman, Jerusalem Israel =================================
Call it what it is... ISRAEL VIOLATED THE CEASEFIRE! No Excuse
Lets be fair...Israel Is Being re-armed with the US Sending more Bombs, Missiles, Helicopter Gunships, Jet Fuel and other military kit...
Lets be fair...Israel nearly wiped Lebanon's infrastructure off the Map in less than a month. Killing over 1100 people, mostly civillians.
The UN Human Rights council Condemned ISRAEL for;
"MASSIVE VIOLATIONS of HUMAN RIGHTS"., "SENSELESS KILLINGS BY ISRAEL, WITH IMPUNITY, OF CHILDREN, WOMEN, THE ELDERLY" and conducting "MILITARY OPERATIONS AGAINST (THE) CIVILIAN POPULATION" of Lebanon
(Quote the UN Human Rights Council's Condemnation of Israeli Attrocities).
Why are the French reluctant to go into Lebanon?Because THEY DO NOT TRUST THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT & MILITARYBecause The ISRAELI MILITARY SHELLED A UN OBSERVATION POST, KILLING THE WITNESSES ! !
After this happened, do you think anyone on this planet will trust the Israeli Government & Military?
Wake Up!
If Israelis want peace,
Israel must leave Lebanon, before Hezbollah considers putting their arms down.
Israel must Get out of Lebanon and Palestine and stop stealing land.
If Israelis want peace, the decent Israeli People need to engineer a change of mind-set within their government.
You must check where the "Hezbollah" Rockets were fired from.. or who delivered them.
I'm pretty sure, based on the Range of Hezbollah's rockets, they would have been launched from areas occupied and patrolled by thousands of Israeli Soldiers, Aircraft, Helicopters., within range of Iraeli artillery that would fire a counter barrage at the exact GPS location the rockets were fired from within seconds of a launch.
How do you feel?.. Israel Intent
We now have peace in Northern Irelend...
It would not have happened if the UK Government had imprisoned all Sinn Fein Politicians like Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness.
Israel.. Learn a lesson!
HAMMAS Politicians are the first steps to peace in the Middle east.
The N Ireland Peace Process;http://www.sinnfeinonline.com/constituencies
1. Within hours of the ceasefire Hezbollah made it clear on air, inter alia on the BBC, that they did not consider that they had to disarm. Did the Secretary general condemn them unconditionally?
2. Is the UN Secretary General impartial? Apart from recent examples of one-sidedness, seeing a photo of him last year sitting under a flag of the Middle East on which Israel had been eliminated, I do wonder.
3. 13 - 14 million Jews worldwide trying to exterminate over 1,300,000,000 million Muslims (number of Jews x 100) ? I don't think so.
4. Over 1,300,000,000 million Muslims as victims? I don't think so. It's one of the great cons of the decade.
Rob - lets be fair....I did not find the exact wording of what you quoted in #9 anywhere in the documentation of the Human Rights Council meeting although yes it is fairly close to some of the things said.I would like to make a few points that you missed on this. This resolution which was put together by the following countries:Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran (Islamic Republic of), Jordan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libyan ArabJamahiriya, Malaysia, Morocco, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic and Tunisia.It was voted in favour by a majority which included an interesting mix of arab states and countries who have a dubious past regarding human rights violations - Cuba, China, S Africa for a start. It was voted against by Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Japan, Netherlands, Poland, Romania, United Kingdom, and Ukraine. Those who abstained I found very interesting (except Switzerland of course):Cameroon, Gabon, Ghana, Guatemala, Nigeria, Philippines, Republic of Korea, and Switzerland.Bearing this in mind I wonder whether this resolution reflects fairly the level of violations on both sides or whether it is more of a reflection of the "political" or racial stand points of the countries involved. Nevermind anything else it is hard for me to believe that hezbollahs indiscriminate shooting of more than 3000 rockets at civilian populations is not a violation of human rights. And don't tell me only 40 Israeli civilians were killed because we saw more than once that those rockets when they hit their target can kill 8 to 12 people without a problem. So do the maths and see what hezbollahs intention regarding human rights violations was.
Sorry Rob - what you quoted in #15
Perhaps your headline could also have read 'Hezbollah arms movements leaves ceasefire in tatters'? But, then again, never let the truth ruin a good headline as we say in the trade!
"Wild" from the US is only aping what his simian President said several years ago, "you are either for us or against us". What crass stupidity! If Wild, Bush & co. must have their Crusade, then count me out. If it comes to it I will fight, but only when the barbarians are at my gate, and NEVER on their side!
AM #18...
The "Missing" Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanon. (AFP)
Israel obviously had planned the WAR on Lebanon before the soldiers were captured. The USA would have considered the implications for the attack and given Israel the go ahead to do so.
Israel BOMBED Lebanon Airport and numerous other civilian targets, Killing Civillians BEFORE Hezbollah fired a rocket.
Israeli press reports around 50 Israeli civillians killed.
Who knows what the final death toll will be in Lebanon.. 1,100 and rising as they dig the babies, children and women out of the bombed ruins of their own homes....
The Lebanese Civilians did not have shelters that could withstand Israeli Laser Guided Bombs and GPS Targeted Artillery.. Many could not run away as they had no transport or the Israeli Gunships would shoot them.
It was by a significant majority that The UN Human Rights council Condemned ISRAEL for;
How can Anyone Justify Killing over 1,100 mostly civilians and destroying a country's infrastructure in order to bolster an Israeli Political party and Give the Israelis an excuse to carry on stealing land in Palestine!
Some Video of Some Lebanese "Terrorists";http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-26863096536963...
Norman, don't confuse Rob with numbers.
Next will you show him the map?
The British Television interviewed Bibi Natanyahu yesterday.
The interviewer asked him: "How come so many more Lebanese have been killed in this conflict than Israelis?"
Natanyahu: "Are you sure that you want to start asking in that direction?"
Interviewer: "Why not?"
Natanyahu: "Because in World War II more Germans were killed than British and Americans combined, but there is no doubt in anyone's mind that the war was caused by Germany's aggression. And in response to the German blitz on London, the British wiped out the entire city of Dresden, burning to death more German civilians than the number of people killed in Hiroshima.
Moreover, I could remind you that in 1944, when the R.A.F. tried to bomb the Gestapo Headquarters in Copenhagen, some of the bombs missed their target and fell on a Danish children's hospital, killing 83 little children. Perhaps you have another question?"
Sometimes, I think people go out of their way to skip over the most important points. Maybe the points are politically incorrect.
Israel is a state. A valid political entity, with laws and the ability to enforce them. Hopefully for the better of their people.
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization with no valid legal status. An outlaw nation. One of its members, almost certainly with agreement from the top, decided to start this fracas. Governments arent that much different from you, me or the animals. You poke it, and its gonna get mad. Personally, I think it borders on insanity to poke a nation that is ready for a fight; has shown it has the military technology and the training to take on all challengers and kick ass. The little kid in school just walked up and punched the athlete and cries about getting his ass beat. Boggles the mind.
Whether or not Hezbollah will be able to make the transition into a valid political entity is and always has been in their own hands. Sinn Fein was able to, but only after they found that they had more political clout than military. Of course it didnt hurt that the political backlash from the terrorist tactics was beginning to become enormous. The world was finally able to put the Cold War to rest, and began to turn its attention to a thorn in our sides for a couple of generations of stalemate. The War on Terror was beginning to pick up steam.
Israel is by far the most potent military force in the Middle East, and that may even include the US forces in Iraq. If it were not for the backlash Israel could quite probably control most of it. Israel isn't going to go anywhere and nobody is going to make them. The terror organizations in the surrounding nations have taken advantage of the fact that Israel is a powerhouse trapped in a little bottle huge huge international pressure by staging from forgeign countries that shield them with their legal governent. Everytime it is poked though Israel w
Rob has absolutely nothing to worry about: nobody threatens his life.
Rob can also side with enemies of his country without fear of consequences. It's his choice and his "right" in a free democracy.
Do you see many people openly siding with US in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, or any other country where Sharyah rules?
Or do you think such people do not exist?
The UN peace zone should surely include Northern Israel as well as Southern Lebanon. No-one is stopping the Zionists from rearming.
The contributor who alleged that Israel does not want peace is, sadly, the product of political and media brainwasing.
Israel is surrounded to a large extent by hostile countries whose governments deny its very right to exist. If the government of Lebanon fulfilled its first responsibility, to protect its citizens, it would deny the right of an armed terrorist organisation to exist within its borders. Hezbollah is clearly using the ceasefire to build up its capability to attack Israel. Should Israel sit back and accept this? Why does the Lebanese government not take steps to seal its borders and prevent the transportation of these weapons from terrorist supporting states?
Who does not want peace? Certainly not Israel!
But, John Miller, #28, any reasonable person would deny the right of Israel to exist (as a racial homeland for Jews).
This kind of racialist principle was found to be philosophically invalid and extremely socially damaging 60 years ago.
It is understandable that the Powers in 1945 decided to allow the creation of the Zionist state on account of the terrible suffering and victimisation of the Jewish people, mainly in Europe.
But it is not understandable that this experiment in ethnic-national positive discrimination should be continued to be supported by western powers on the same basis, some two generations later.
There will be no military solution to the problem of Israel, and no negotiated solution until Israel reconstitutes itself, or is reconstituted, as a modern country which does not discriminate against or for any of its citizens on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion.
Whether such a future country would bear the name Israel is questionable.
Tommy #29:
1. The "experiment" happens to be culmination of 2,000-year old diaspora. Jewish suffering and victimization during WWII did not help getting the British out of Israel. Armed struggle did.
2. Do you know of any specific Western power that supports Israel on the basis of "ethnic-national positive discrimination?" I don't.
3. Some Western powers support Israel because it is the ONLY country in the Middle East that still fights against Sharyah and for democracy.
4. Some other Western powers already capitulated. Without a fight. A couple of explosions were enough.
It's funny how many people writing to The Scotsman support Hizbollah, yet in real life I haven't come across one. Could it be part of the propoganda war being waged by Islam to change our Western democratic way of life?
Let's not forget folks that Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Golan Heights on the understanding that the UN would not allow the terrorist group Hizbollah to re-arm and attack them.
Of course the UN which is blatantly anti Israel - it ignores genocide in Africa and dictatorships in the Middle East and Asia time and time again - while it passes yet another resolution to condemn Israel.
If the UN had fulfilled its role as a peacekeeper and prevented Hizbollah from arming itself and storing its rockets and rocket firers in civilian homes the Middle East would not be in the mess it is in now. But what do you expect from a corrupt organisation, with a man found guilty of corruption running the show?
Make no mistake. It's not just the Israelis they want to wipe off the face of the earth. The ambition of the Mullahs is to make the entire world live under sharia law. Don't take my word for it check out the Iranian/Shia websites. Before it's too late.
Rob #15Civilian death toll is largely a result of Hezbollah tactics of launching her illegal activities from within populated civilian areas and using civilians as human shields. Every civilian killed is a propaganda war victory for Hezbollah. Hezbollah hatred of Israel is greater than the love for her own people and Lebanon! Whatever happened in Lebanon today was brought about by Hezbollah who started this war first.
Rob - "Missing"? What is the purpose of the use of "" round the word missing regarding the kidnapped soldiers?
Here is a list of real heroes today outside of Israel, Afghanistan, and Iraq. They risk (and some pay with) their lives against Muslim extremists:
Wafa Sultanhttp://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187385,...
Walid Shoebat, ex-palestinian terroristhttp://www.shoebat.com/
Zak Anani, Ibrahim Abadallah, ex-palestinian terroristshttp://netwmd.com/blog/2005/12/09/220
Michael Behe, a Lebanese Christian reporter from Beirut http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060807&s=behe080706
May Chidiac, a Lebanese anchorwoman. Survived several attempts of murder: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E986CA6D-CD4B-4BD5...
Theo Van Gogh, did not survive.http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_11_15_04td.html
The list is very short.
If the Israeli IDF had been successful in their quest to take out Hezbollah with airstrikes it would have signaled to the US that the same would be possible to do with Iran. It seems clear that Israel was incapable of doing this even with support from the US. The blatant and indiscriminate slaughter of Lebanese civilians reveals either rage or incompetence. The kidnapping of two soldiers gave Israel the opportunity to declare war in "self-defense". It was an ineffective exercise in confronting terrorism. The death and destruction were for nothing in terms of the result Israel was seeking. Israel has only accomplished gaining condemnation in the views of many and turned the hearts of countless Lebanese who suffered towards those who would protect them. I would imagine that if my home were destroyed and my family murdered I would not be in a conciliatory frame of mind. Diplomacy needs to be conducted with one's enemies as well as with one's friends. Israel arrogantly decides what measures it will take in defiance of the UN. It seems to operate on the premise that it can "act now and ask forgiveness later". This conflict is the thin edge of the wedge. It was a dress rehearsal for conflicts to come and the world had better intervene to calm things down.
Jane,
Yes, we were not as effective as we hoped.
You are most welcome to try to intervene to calm things down.
Our own experience of diplomacy with enemies has not been very good. We have had 3,000 years to practice. At the end - always negative results.
Most recently, we left Gaza and South Lebanon. Then we discovered that we have to fight there again.
So it looks like in the near future we must work harder and become more effective.
Bully for Israel!
They correctly identified the UN's proclamation as hollow rhetoric.
The correctly identified that while hiding under the UN's yapron the Islamofascists would re-arm, with supply by Syria & Iran, and facilitation by the sham government of Lebanon.
They correctly identified that they needed to act, and did so.
And predictably Kofi-the-Clown comes down on Israel while giving the Islamofascists a 'pass'.
Kofi & Co. simply prove that the UN is a meaningless relic of a failed ideal in social engineering, and that it is being used as a shield for the worst evil in our world.
Israel has done right. And we know it.
#36 Yoram,
Yes, I agree with you, three thousand years of poor diplomacy...perhaps Jane SHOULD act on your nations behalf...ANYONE could do a better job it seems.
Here's a radical idea...forget what someone did to someone else 3,000 years ago, say enough is enough, get religion OUT of the Parliament and back into the Synagogues where it belongs. Forgive and forget like your religion supposedly says. I am not a Jew, nor a Muslim, nor Christian, Catholic, nor any nutter religion...but I can be sure of this...it don't say ANYWHERE in you books or scrolls or whatever..."Thou shall kill all Muslims". Let god play god. Bullies may be feared, but never respected. And unlike yourself Yoram, a bully never admits to being wrong. Perhaps people like yourself should lead the COUNTRY of Israel back to peace from being a JEWISH STATE OF WAR. Make a difference. :)
http://terroristsrus.co.uk/index.html
http://terroristsrus.proboards103.com/index.cgi
"Open Your Eyes" #31
You have done a great job with a few words.I hope many more folks will endorse your comments
1. I wonder if the "pro-Hizbo" statements reflect simple anti-semetism or if these are just isolated and otherwise unremarkable souls seeking to "stand-out" and get some (any) attention in their otherwise mundane and boring lives;
2. And I wonder if their homes and neighborhoods were forcibly used as rocket-sites to whom they would complain...or would they simply acquiesce?
3. And finally I wonder where their common sense has fled when they apparently detect no danger in the very public statements and policies of Iran and Syria and as someone most aptly termed him "Kofi-the-Clown" and his make-up artist Mallock-Brown, and yet see startling visions of Israel with goals of Islamic-world domination.
Glenn #38, #39
"...it don't say..." and you complain about "yapron"; ine, but do it constructively...not like a child, IE:for the sake of it.
Israel has done wrong in this instance...and you are an idiot!
I think you fit my "wondering" category #1 above.
Timothy #42,
"it don't say..." is one of many American vulgarisation's of the English language...I thought you would have realised that, I used it to make boof-head feel more at home (#37), some language he could understand, and YES, I DO complain about "yapron". You have certainly not been constructive enough to offer a definition.
As for being Anti-Semetic JUST because I support Hezbollah...Don't try to play that crap on me sunshine...the world is fed up with hearing the "poor me anti-semetic cry"! I AM Anti-Semetic...but NOT Anti-Jew as I pointed out quite clearly! Jew's get on with life and their religion...good for them! All the Semetics seem to do is cry out Anti-Semetic and try to make the world feel bad about itself for crap that happened a LONG LONG LONG time ago! The ONLY people who persecute the Jews are the Semetics themselves EVERY time they cry Anti-Semetic.
You don't scare me and you don't categorise me. If you feel strong enough, join my forum and discuss your points in depth and in an intelligent manner. Even Semetics are welcome to participate.
http://terroristsrus.proboards103.com/index.cgi?board=gen...
Glenn #39:
"three thousand years of poor diplomacy...perhaps Jane SHOULD act on your nations behalf...ANYONE could do a better job it seems."
We tried that too. Janes always sold us at the first opportunity or at the first sign of inconvenience.
"a bully never admits to being wrong." Yes, even loss of life and renewed occupation is celebrated as victory in Lebanon and Iran. Why, if not in preparation for the next round of martyrdom?
You Glenn, have absolutely nothing to worry about: nobody threatens your life.
You can even side with enemies of your own country without fear of consequences. It's your choice and your "right" in a Constitutional democracy.
But Jews are being hunted down indiscriminately, just like animals. In Israel, in France, in Russia, in EVERY muslim country, even in Seattle.
"Let god play god." So my point to Jane in @36 was that we must work harder to arrange more meetings for hizbos and God.
Yoram, #30. '2. Do you know of any specific Western power that supports Israel on the basis of "ethnic-national positive discrimination?"': yes, of course, America. But, of course, America really only supports Israel on the basis of its usefulness as a proxy power in its Great Game in the Middle East. It just uses the Holocaust as a justification.
As far as Israel 'standing up to' those who wish to make us all live under Shariah law, well, you do have a point. It is undoubtedly true that the Iranian Revolution's guiding ideology is based on Shariah principles and, like all successful revolutions, it wants to export that ideology. This was also true of Russia with Marxism and France with 'égalité, fraternité et liberté'.
However, please don't forget that Iran is a democracy and that almost all Islamic/Arab countries that hold free elections end up with pro-Shariah majority governments. The majority do not, of course, hold free elections precisely because the autocrats/foreign powers don't want this to happen.
I don't think we can assume that Shariah is inferior to the principles on which we base our social organisation in Scotland. We should remember that in those countries where Shariah law is in place, minorities such as Christians and Jews are exempted from many of its tenets that apply only to Muslims. This has been consistent for many hundreds of years.
Ontario, Canada recently attempted to incorporate Shariah law for its Muslim minority into its own constitutional framework. It failed, of course, but probably because it didn't want to succeed badly enough.
It seems to me that we shouldn't automatically discount Shariah legal principles on the basis of our uninformed repugnance of some of the worst examples of its excesses, e.g. stoning adulteresses. You could certainly have shariah law without ever stoning an adultress, just as US constitutional law wouldn't be nullified if they gave up executing people.
Hi Rob #16 Interesting point and thanks for the link; I do think diplomacy is the way to go but I think Sean #25 has some valid points as well. I've mentioned before, perhaps the 'common person' wants peace, but I really believe there are those who will continue their Jihad, regardless.
Hi Glenn#38 as you said ,"Thank god for the Hezbollah! Defending the people, delivering food, money, furniture, clothing, medical supplies and weapons where they are needed most." True, tis mighty decent of them, considering it does seem their fault that the Lebanese are suffering. Perhaps it's to assuage their guilt at using Lebanese women and children as shields; or am I being misinformed by the American Press??
Hi "Open" #31 Thank you, Interesting Point. I heard something like this before,(loosely quoted): 'present a lie long enough, and people will believe it as truth; convince the masses that it's true and you have control' Maybe that's why Hitler sent the intellectuals to concentration camps, too!
Glenn 43 --
I think you had better re-read the second part of my wondering #1:
"1. I wonder if the "pro-Hizbo" statements ... or if these are just isolated and otherwise unremarkable souls seeking to "stand-out" and get some (any) attention in their otherwise mundane and boring lives;"
"yapron" is clearly a typo for "apron"...
and further, I have yet to see "it don't" used in any serious discussion, American or British...vulgarized or not.
"Scare you..." amazing conclusion; has your paranoia really reached such a level?
Tommy #45:
You managed to include a lie in EVERY paragraph above. Sometimes two lies :)
The comparison of stoning adultress in Shariah with execution of criminals in US is probably the best!
It's time to build up the UN peace keeping force and disarm all nations with violent tendencies - if the UN was armed to the teeth and powerful enough to nip any conflict in the bud, we could have a comparatively peaceful and prosperous world. It's obvious who are the agressive nations...the ones who constantly veto and arrogantly ignore and flout UN resolutions.
Yoram, Hadera####36.Good of you to leave Gaza and South Lebanon, what were you doing there in the first place? The writing is on the wall for Israel, with all your firepower you could not defeat a militia many times smaller. Your enemies have noticed that and that without the support of the US you are nothingThe only way you can defeat all your enemies is by upping the ante and that will lead to your annihilation. Anything else you say is rhetoric and propaganda.
Yoram #44,
I side with no enemies because I have no enemies.
You also say, "But Jews are being hunted down indiscriminately, just like animals. In Israel, in France, in Russia, in EVERY muslim country, even in Seattle."
So now Seattle is a COUNTRY, and France and Russia are MUSLIM countries? My, my...what lesson's I am learning here.
"Jew's are being hunted down indiscriminately, just like animals" you say? So...no Muslim, no christian, no catholic, no mormon, no other religion's worshipper's are being hunted down, discriminately or otherwise? It is JUST the Jew's who are being hunted down...yes? I must remember to tell Wolfowitz this next time I see him...he lives such a persecuted and sorry life...as does Spielberg and many other Jew's.
Who CARES if someone is a Jew? I know I could not give a toss! People are people, there are good Jews, bad Jews, good muslims, bad muslims, good christians, bad ones...good atheists, bad athiests. It's not the book they read, it's how they live and conduct themselves as a human being.
Look to a peaceful future rather than a waring a hate filled past. If you feel persecuted still, then be the bigger party and don't retaliate instantly...show some tolerance...like your book or whatever it is teaches, and when you have shown enough...show some more. You may win respect then.
I may not be at the front, but I assure you, with men like Bush and Blair at the helm of this world, my life, and some 7 billion other human lives are VERY MUCH at risk EACH and EVERY DAY.
http://terroristsrus.proboards103.com/index.cgi?
Isn't it amazing too, how many "septic tanks" come onto this forum supporting Israel. Don't they realise that Israel begged the US (Bush) to attack Iraq, now nearly 2,500 American soldiers have been killed in Irag and 20,000 mutilated.And you think Israel is your friend?
Stephen @50:
We were there in the first place PRECISELY under the same circumstances that brought us there this time.
Defeating a militia is difficult. Do you have any constructive advice or more successful examples?
But assuming you are right and the entire Middle East will become Judenrein as you seem so eager to see, what's in it for you?
Do you think Jihad will stop with surrender of Israel?
Melanie # 46,
"True, tis mighty decent of them, considering it does seem their fault that the Lebanese are suffering. Perhaps it's to assuage their guilt at using Lebanese women and children as shields; or am I being misinformed by the American Press??"
The US press lying to the public...NEVER! Dismiss the thought! Of course the most popular organisation in Lebanon attacked itself, killed itself and it's people...they just happened to wear Israeli uniforms, fly Israeli Jets, Sail Israeli warships, blow up UN posts, blow up Red Cross deliveries, Block all aid...Eeeeeeyup!
Timothy #47,I read your category 1 clearly several times...I know what you said...so what do you want me to say? You want me to get upset and swear at you over mere words? Nah, I'm what grown-ups call mature and respectful.
You think me paranoid to such a level, but refrain(yet again), from offering an adequate definition.
I should welcome an extended and open discussion with someone like yourself on my new forums. If I were paranoid, I wouldn't offer that.
http://terroristsrus.co.uk/news.html
Glenn #38
Lebanese victims of the war are the victims of Hezbollah who is fully responsible for the war. Melanie, California made a good point. If UN were to have disbanded and disarmed Hezbollah in the first place, these mess of destruction and deaths would not have occurred. If they can, the Lebanese people would rather prefer to turn back the clock than receiving money and bury the deaths.
Yoram #50The Malayan Races Liberation Army (MRLA) was defeated in 1960. The one and only time a so called terrorist force has been defeated. But, surely your government knew that when they invaded Lebanon again a few weeks ago.I would like to remind the US audience too that the Israel inspired war in Iraq has cost them nearly $310billion and Israel still gets a $3billion handout from them EVERY YEAR.Any ideas in Tel Aviv what the final cost in lives and cash will be?
Stephen @52:
Israel "begged" US to attack Iraq? Why?
Don't you understand that weakening Iraq promotes Iran, Syria, and therefore Hizbollah?
Are you going to blame Israel for US attack of Afghanistan?
Israel attacked Iraq alone in 1982 and eliminated its nuclear threat when everybody else was afraid to deal with Saddam.
The killed American soldiers are heroes of the war on Jihad.
Why insult their memory?
Think about Iraq. The Sunis and Shias are killing each other for being the wrong kind of Muslin. You can't blame that on Israel, America or British foreign policy.
We have some seriously deranged people out there.
Israel has the great misfortune to be in the front line.
The people who are swallowing Hizbollah propaganda are not necessarily anti-Semitic, probably not in fact, just naively reacting to very emotive pictures from Lebanon.
But remember Israel withdrew from Lebanon and was rewarded by constant rocket bombardment from the Hizbollah, which the worse than useless UN ignored. No statements from Kofi Anan after rocket attacks on Northern Israeli cities.
Don't buy the Hizbollah propaganda. They are not your friends. Remember what the Muslims are doing to each other in Iraq. Think hard.
Yoram #57Why did the US attack Iraq in 2002 if Israel had eliminated their nuclear weapons potential?And I don't think I disparaged any dead US soldiers, they are as much victims of expansionist Israeli and misguided US government policies as are the, as yet, undiscovered bodies in the Lebanese rubble created by Israeli bombing.Israel should be more be more honest in it's intentions, you can see from this forum that few people outside of the US are buying your propaganda. You can't stick Mark Regev on our TV and expect us to believe what he says, he might as well save his breath.
Bernard, Who else will defend Lebanon and help rebuild? Over three years in Iraq, look what the US has acomplished.
The US has refused to deploy UN peacekeepers, not that they are wanted anyway...after all they did supply the aid that the Israeli airforce bombed...The Lebanese never asked for money from the US...just that they stop sending bombs.
If you want peace, disarm the US and Israel, then the rest of the world will follow.
Hi Glenn #54 I take every news broadcast with 'a grain of salt' which is why I read and sometimes participate in these forums, as well as search out reliable sources elsewhere. I believe in an informed citizenry; and, even if I do disagree with a person, I respect their right to voice their opinion. I think painting the Israelis as the ultimate 'bad guy' in this is way too one-sided.Hi John #49 Are you sure you want to give all that power to the UN?? As the saying goes, 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' If they become all-powerful, what then will keep them from taking away your civil liberties?
Yet another INNOCENT Israeli act?
Israel arrests senior Hamas politician
Israeli forces have arrested another senior member of the Hamas-led Palestinian government in the West Bank.
Troops surrounded the home of Mahmoud al-Rahami - secretary-general of the Palestinian Legislative Council – and detained him in broad daylight, his sister Yageen said.
Full Story:http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F70AEF07-6C8D-4C00...
The problem with the UN is that it does not have a standing army and has to beg for troops every time there is an emergency. Resolution 1701 took over a week to formulate between the US and France. Israel knows that it is a form of words to cease hostilities. Now it attempts to do by stealth, terror and semantics what it couldn't do on the battlefields.Israel is a terrorist state masquerading as a democracy. If it is a democracy it should admit to having nuclear weapons and allow it's population a vote on them. But Israel will not!
Now let's try this on Dick Cheyney or John Prescott. See how long it would be legal for. There would be outrage! So what's the difference when Israel does it?
Israeli soldiers have detained the Palestinian deputy prime minister, the latest step in a continuing crackdown against the ruling Hamas party.
Full Story:http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/61367821-0A55-43E0...
Stephen and Glenn,
The deputy PM happens to be a member of Hamas, which is a recognized terrorist organization, even by UN and EU, and so his place is in jail.
Remind you, Hamas now has one kidnapped Israeli soldier and two American news reporters, all in Gaza.
The crackdown on Hamas is bringing results. Notice that for the past 5 days, we have no Kassam rickets fired from Gaza. Or would you like Israelis to just watch rockets falling on them?
Tommy in Edinburgh writes:
"However, please don't forget that Iran is a democracy and that almost all Islamic/Arab countries that hold free elections end up with pro-Shariah majority governments."
Not true. Iran is a Democracy in the sense that people were also free to vote for the official Party-approved slate of candidates in the USSR. Substitute the Mullah Theocrats for Commies and you have a flavor of Iranian democracy. Not true at all with respect to "all Islamics are alike thinking" either. Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt all rejected "pure Sharia" in recent elections.
"I don't think we can assume that Shariah is inferior to the principles on which we base our social organisation in Scotland."
You are either insane or haven't read a Sharia code. Perhaps the former because your spelling is off.
" We should remember that in those countries where Shariah law is in place, minorities such as Christians and Jews are exempted from many of its tenets that apply only to Muslims. This has been consistent for many hundreds of years."
No, you are wrong there, too. Sharia has certain "Muslim-only" provisions, but many that define and bind infidels to Dhimmitude, a form of discrimination worse than the American Jim Crow laws and on par with Apartheid. Get back and discuss Sharia when you have a clue about it's codification of infidel humiliations, inferior status - Tommy.
"Ontario, Canada recently attempted to incorporate Shariah law for its Muslim minority into its own constitutional framework. It failed, of course, but probably because it didn't want to succeed badly enough."
No, it was because Canadians such as myself became educated in provisions of Sharia and even the most PC liberals in Canada followed and realized it would enshrine the right to two separate societies with different laws within our nation. With Muslims using Canadian law when con
Yoram,Are you blind, deaf, ignorant or just joking? Don't you remember, the people of Lebanon voted in democratic elections for Hamas, the political party. It does not matter what Israel and America think of Hamas. I think Bush co are crooks, as well as Blair, and Israels parliament, but hell, that does not give ME the right to interfere and kidnap does it? Or does two wrongs make a right?
Yoram 30; I am confused by your paragraph 1, what do you mean "getting the British out of Israel"? 36; Surely "Israeli Diplomacy" is an Oxymoron? You say it has been ineffective on your enemies, many outsiders would say your "diplomacy" is your own worst enemy!
Chris @66:
Yes, he should thank you for pointing out in detail his lies in @45. He managed to include a lie in EVERY paragraph. Sometimes two lies :)
But his comparison of stoning adultress in Shariah with execution of criminals in US is still the best!
His is a more sophisticated presentation than Glenn's and Stephen's but at the end - just the same dhimmitude to radical Moslems. So eager to pay Jaziyah.
Also Yoram...The UN actually has agreed with Hamas that the Israelis have breached both international law and the terms for the ceasfire...not to forget also the Geneva Convention...MANY times over.
William @68:
The British would not leave Palestine until 1948, when they realized that continued fighting Jewish resistance to British mandate has become too painful/costly.
Yes, Israeli diplomats have plenty to learn. I hope we choose to learn from Churchill and not Chamberlain.
Do you have good American role models?
Or do you prefer to learn directly from Nasralla and Ahmadenijad?
Yoram 71; 1, Find a book called "Free For A blast" by Rex King Clark, perhaps then you will get a better understanding of reality. 2, I would suggest Ghandi as a much better choice! As for Churchill another book of enlightenment would be, Churchill, by Lord Moran. Your last ? is more difficult, dare I say Jimmy Carter!!
William @72:
Thank you for reference to Rex King-Clark. He was a hero working for another British hero, Wingate. They were among the very few in those days that stood up for principles.
By the way, Rex King-Clark also wrote a book about Churchill.
Ghandi might be a good role model against British but how successful he would be fighting Jihad?
As for Carter, what has he accomplished?
AM #18, What I quoted in #15 are in the article;
I suggest everyone takes a read;
The UN Human Rights Council Condemmed Israel for GRAVE Violations of Human Rights; 27 voted for, 11 against 8 obstained.
=================================
Council Strongly Condemns Grave Israeli Violations of Human Rights in Lebanon11 August 2006
The second special session of the Human Rights Council today strongly condemned the grave Israeli violations of human rights and breaches of international humanitarian law in Lebanon and decided to urgently establish and immediately dispatch a high-level inquiry commission to the region.
In a resolution (A/HRC/S-2/L.1), entitled the grave situation of human rights in Lebanon caused by Israeli military operations, adopted as orally revised after a roll-call vote of 27 in favour, 11 against, and 8 abstentions, the Human Rights Council, among other things, strongly condemns the grave Israeli violations of human rights and breaches of international humanitarian law in Lebanon; also condemns massive bombardments of Lebanese civilian populations, especially the massacres in Qana, Marwaheen, Al Duweir, Al Bayadah, Al Qaa, Chiyah, Ghazieh and other towns of Lebanon and the displacement of one million civilians; further condemns the Israeli bombardment of vital civilian infrastructure resulting in extensive destruction and heavy damage to public and private properties; further condemns the Israeli bombardment of vital civilian infrastructure; calls upon Israel to observe the principle of proportionality and refrain from launching any attack that may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life; calls upon Israel to abide immediately and scrupulously by its obligations under human rights law, in particular the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and urges all concerned parties to respect the rules of international humanitarian law, to refrain from violence against the civilian population and
"etc. etc." @74:
Rob, you just keep repeating the Lebanese Jihadist mantra again and again.
Nasalla is not done whining, wait until Ahmadinejad starts using UN to complain about human rights violations because of impending sanctions.
Have you visited Glenn's site yet? What do you think?
I cant believe the post above about disarming anyone aggresive and beefing up the UN. Do they live in the same world we do?
It doesnt get much more corrupt than the UN, and most of the people that promised to send troops to Lebanon are stalling till they figure out if THEY might be used to disarm the peace-loving "freedom fighters".
I can't imagine what type of social urgency would be needed for their to be enough momentum to force the worlds governments to begin giving up soveriegnty. Of course, he only argued for doing it to the most belligerent. Too bad they are also the least likely to hand over their weapons voluntarily, and of course would be the most costly in human lives.
We all are used to fair. We like fair. But to think that fair is even a criteria in foreign policy is naive. The Israeli's pretty much took that piece of land after WWII and have held it against all challengers. Lots of help was given from the western powers true, that help served their national interests which is the only purpose of a government. Unlike most of the other places in the world where people dont like each other, the Middle East has strategic importance to the world. Israel and a handful of others have remained reasonably stable and the western powers have been able to maintain relations with them. In politics your required to be exceptionally nice to everyone even people that sometimes do stuff you wish they didnt do, but you really have no control over it. That is how it works, wishing or crying about how unfair something might be is mental masturbation. The west gives money freely to governments all over that region. Unless the west wishes to commit their troops that is the only force they can exert.
So far Israel has been one of the best investments. They have the most advanced government in the region. Israel spends the money we give them doing what governments are supposed to do: ensure social order, regulate a currency,
#74, Yoram,
I would like to hear your thoughts on my site. Bear in mind it is only new, but no less I believe is impartial though makes a definite impact.
You are more than welcome to join and contribute.
Main Site:
Forum:
stephen (52) you wonder why there are so many israel supporters in the forums...check out this site and you will realise why. It is one of many like it.
www.giyus.org
It alerts you to discussions on israel and even tells you what to say. They dont control the internet yet so must rely on ppl to big-up the country and all it does.WHile I am here I would like to remind you that Israel resorted to terrorism against the British eg the King David Hotel, which they bombed and killed a large number of British sevicemen. An event that is revered annually.And Sharon was a terrorist before he became a politician although many ppl might ask 'when did he stop?'
Sean #25...
TERRORISM: "The use of Violence for political aims or to force a government to act, esp because of the fear it causes among the people".TERRORIST: "A person who takes part in Terrorism"HOLOCAUST: "occasion of Great Destruction esp by fire, and great loss of human lifeTHIEF: "A Person who Steals".. E.g. Pallestinian LandQuote the Oxford Dictionary...
Exactly what the Israelis are doing now.
... Israel is committing human rights and terrorist atrocities against civilians in Lebanon & Palestine .. With Jets, Helicopter Gunships, Bombs, missiles and other Military Hardware "Made in the USA", funded by the USA. With plenty of their own Military hardware.. Mobile artillery.. Yep.. and The Israelis have Katyushas too!
Hezbollah and Palestinians are defending their country to prevent annexation and anniliation by Israel.
Iran sends weapons to Hezbollah and Hammas to defend themselves..
The US send enough military hardware to wipe Lebanon off the map.
Now who is the Terrorist?
You have been brainwashed!
As per the UN Human Rights Council
11 August 2006"The second special session of the Human Rights Council today strongly condemned the grave Israeli violations of human rights and breaches of international humanitarian law in Lebanon and decided to urgently establish and immediately dispatch a high-level inquiry commission to the region".
... "also condemns massive bombardments of Lebanese civilian populations, especially the massacres in Qana, Marwaheen, Al Duweir, Al Bayadah, Al Qaa, Chiyah, Ghazieh and other towns of Lebanon and the displacement of one million civilians; further condemns the Israeli bombardment of vital civilian infrastructure resulting in extensive destruction and heavy damage to public and private properties; further condemns the Israeli bombardment of vital civilian infras
Bernard #32...
You imply that all Hezbollah rockets are fired from next to civilian locations. This is not true.
Israel has Artillery Batteries located on the border and in Lebanon. They have a range of approx 29 miles
The second a missile launch is detected, a GPS targeted artillery counter barrage is fired at the launcher within seconds.
Hezbollah know this.. They know the Israelis will fire at them the second they launch.
Before Israel started.. They had hi res satelitte images of all Hezbollah bunkers, installations..
My question is.. How do Hezbollah launch nearly 4000 rockets from a 20 mile by 15 mile area that is patrolled by thousands of Israeli Soldiers, Tanks, APC's, Gunships, helicopter gunships, spotter aircraft, spy planes..
You may well find that many Rockets were delivered to "impact sites" in Israel by Israeli truck and detonated for Israeli propaganda purposes.
Rob #79
You are missing my point. It doesnt matter my personal opinion about whether or not Israel should own that land. They are sitting on it and have done a damn fine job of holding onto it. Nobody in the world is going to make them move because no matter what Israel does, one of the freedom fighter groups is going to do something more spectacular.
Yes, I do usually come down on the side of Israel just because they are usually reacting to, and not causing whatever current crisis is holding the headlines. I see no reason to hold against them the damage that was done out of retaliation or self-defense. We can only hope that the people in the region realize soon that picking a fight with someone that can kick your ass at will and inflict horrendous casualties while doing it is not the smartest course of action. The countries around Israel figured this out years ago and the war turned guerilla with state sponsored militias. Everyone in the world knows what the situation is, but because of the oil and the concerns over stability, Israel is kept mostly within their borders. Until of course someone decides to give them provocation, and an excuse for a bloody nose.
I do feel sorry for the citizens of countries that view life cheaply. However, there is nothing that can be forced on a people for long unless they choose to accept it. The governments are doing their people a horrible disservice continuing a struggle that cant be won, but if your only option for stopping a man from commiting suicide is by killing him then whats the point of getting our own people killed.
Rob #80
I expected more from you. Bringing baseless accusations and conspiracies into this simply means you are running out of anything useful to add.
I do have to admit I am a bit curious about this conspiracy though. For the theory to hold any water, we would have to assume that at some high level of the Israeli government it was decided that they would gain enough positive public opinion by blowing up their own people to offset the risk of a public hanging by anyone who found out. That hurt to swallow and we havent even gotten to how would they hope to do it and keep the secret FOREVER.
All this risk when the other guy has shown an absolute willingness to help you out in the forum of public opinion all by himself. I cant even continue this one with a straight face.
Boy the the appologists have realy come out in force. Glenn #38 strikes me has having the intellect of a soggy biscuit.
Israel does us a favor when it deals with the the Islamofascists.
They are plainly in the right.
Some things are pretty simple, yet those seem to escape our "Europologists".
Suggest they get themselves a prayer rug - will make their submission and conversion easier.
to Rob & friends:It's all pretty simple: Lebanon Hexbullah entered Israel, murdered 8 Israelis and kidnapped 2 Israelis. This is a cause for war with Lebanon-Hexbullah. All this talk of proportionate and disproportionate will not cause Israel to commit suicide. Lebanon did a lot of bawling for a cease fire proclaiming they did not know about Hexbullahs plans. Now that they have their bogus cease fire they are fully supporting Hexbullah and breaching the cease fire by allowing hexbullah to re-arm while playing to the camera by condemning Israel for interdicting the arms shipments. A bogus cease fire and disingenuous condemnations of Israel may work fine for PR, and chat boards like this, but this route will re-start the war because it achieves nothing but increases Israeli distrust in diplomatic solutions. Israel does not trust any of the participants in the cease fire. I am aware that many are just not comfortable with those "pushy Jews" from "that shitty little country" but I doubt that Israel really wants to take their advice and commit suicide peacefuly. I venture to say that if the EU, UN and Lebanon do not take seriously the disarmament of Hexbullah that there will soon be a war involving Iran and Syria which will quickly turn global and possibly atomic. Continuing to falsely condemn Israel in knee jerk fashion will only hasten that outcome. The terrorist states are emboldened by the EU lack of resolve and the UN is a failed organisation. It's really time to stop playing to the cameras and touting the credibility of kangaroo courts. This will achieve nothing as the moment of truth has arrived
Glen #60 - "If you want peace, disarm US and Israel...."
Think of the horror Hezbollah has created and brought upon the Lebanese people! What did Hezbollah achieve out of starting this war? Only devastation of Lebanon, hardship, displacement and death of civilians! Hezbollah has become the aggressor.If Hezbollah had not initiated the deadly cross-border attack on Israel and kidnapping 2 soldiers, Lebanon would not have suffered like this today. Israel only retaliates in self defence when provoked. For peace to prevail, Hezbollah must be disarmed.
I refer to your first and last paragraphs.
There's nothing new Hezbollah has been using civilians as sandbags and deliberately locating her rocket firing equipment and operatives in civilian areas. Civilian casualities is her main weapon to beat Israel and win world sympathy and bleeding hearts!
Rob #74What you have posted here is what is known as a resolution. It is drafted by a number of countries and brought to a vote. Now as I pointed out before it was drafted by the following countries:Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran (Islamic Republic of), Jordan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libyan ArabJamahiriya, Malaysia, Morocco, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic and Tunisia.And as I pointed out before it is unlikely to be a true reflection on their views of human rights (many of these countries have fairly "interesting" views of human rights when it comes to how they act towards their own citizens or others) but rather a reflection of their political and racial standpoints. So well done for finally going and taking the time to find the source of your so called quotes (no doubt you too noticed that the exact wording you use is not present anywhere in this resolution so I can only assume that you took your information from the press - never the best idea if you want to understand what is really going on) however as I pointed out before if Israel is being accused of human rights violations then so must hezbullah be accused and I don't know if you took the time to read the entire log of the meeting but if you had you would have seen that Louise Arbour, United Nations High Commissioner did exactly that.
Bernard...
There is nothing new about ISRAEL Using CIVILIANS AS TARGETS! With their Laser Guided BOMBS, Rockets, GPS Targeted Artillery.. In Fact, our opinion of the Israeli Armi is such that we EXPECT the ISRAELIS to Do It!
When a launch has been detected near a town or village, the Israelis have shelled and bombed the nearest town or Village.
The Israelis have Bombed major towns and Beirut...That are way beyond missile launch range.
The Israelis Have Shelled and Bombed UN Observers, Ambulances..
The Israelis have Bombed hundreds of other non-military, non-hezbollah targets.
ISRAEL was Condemed by the UN Human Rights council for;
"MASSIVE VIOLATIONS of HUMAN RIGHTS"., for the "SENSELESS KILLINGS BY ISRAEL, WITH IMPUNITY, OF CHILDREN, WOMEN, THE ELDERLY" AND TO "IMMEDIATELY STOP MILITARY OPERATIONS AGAINST (THE) CIVILIAN POPULATION"
Full article (copy the full link below):http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/news_media.nsf/(httpNewsByYear_en)/F16C6E9AE98880A0C12571C700379F8C?OpenDocument
Bernard #86...
Israels main Targets have Been PEOPLE's Homes, Civilian Buildings, Civilian Airport, Fuel Storage, Roads, Bridges, Trucks, BABIES, TODDLERS, BOYS, GIRLS, TEENAGERS, MUMS, DADS, The Elderly.
Cars with REFUGEES! moving away from the Border!
The situation is very clear: Israel wants lebensraum. Oh, the irony! The oppressed and brutalized have become the brutal oppressors. The new Axis is not Germany-Japan-Italy but USA-UK-Israel, and unless we wake up to what is being perpetrated in our name we will bring shame and eventual ruin to our countries just like that suffered by the original Axis powers.
Sean #82I don't think the Israelis will be blowing up their own people...
What I do Question is the number of rockets fired and landing on Israel.
Given the range of Hezbollah's rockets, they would have to be launched from a relatively small area 20 miles by 15 miles deep, where there are up to 30,000 Israeli soldiers, tanks, APC's, Artillery, Manned and Unmanned UAV Aircraft, Helicopter Gunships patroling.
The number of rockets landing on Israel is their excuse to attack Lebanon and stay in Palestine;
So..The Israelis could position Katusha rocket near a civilian building / town i.e. delivered by truck/van.
You have air raid sirens, people are off the street. (No Witnesses)
An explosion is triggered.. Boom.. you have a Katyusha case on the ground for the press to see.
Poor Israel... They now have to Bomb More Civillians, Civillian Infrastructure, terrorize Pallestinians and STEAL Palestinian land to Protect themselves!
Rob #80My question is.. How do Hezbollah launch nearly 4000 rockets from a 20 mile by 15 mile area that is patrolled by thousands of Israeli Soldiers, Tanks, APC's, Gunships, helicopter gunships, spotter aircraft, spy planes..The Israeli army only launched a major ground offensive towards the end of the war (day 29 if I am not mistaken) by which stage hizbullah had launched more than 3000 of the 4000 rockets. After the ground offensive was launched it was noticed that they were significantly less effective regarding their ability to hit their target so one can assume they had been displaced, possibly above the Litani which is outside your 20 by 15 mile area. Also Rob it seems a little incongruous to me that on the one hand you denounce Israel for human rights violations but on the other hand you are practically rubbing your hands together in glee at the fact that hizbullah managed to launch almost 4000 rockets at civilian populations. Perhaps your main concern is not human rights but rather trying to promote anti Israel feeling among readers.
Something definitely backed up by this statement you made:"You may well find that many Rockets were delivered to "impact sites" in Israel by Israeli truck and detonated for Israeli propaganda purposes."Please!!!! This kind of propoganda might work on the readers of tabloid press but Scotsman readers are intelligent enough to see this for what it is - blatant propoganda and absolute nonscence. I had noticed that your postings had a tendency towards propoganda, it was not discussion, you just drop in the same comments repeatedly regardless of what is currently being discussed. I think you insult the intelligence of the readers of this paper.
The UK Terror plot: what's really going on? None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.
The story of the British liquid-bombers is quickly falling apart, not that the Times or the Post is taking any notice.
First comes the NBC report that many of the accused hijackers did not own passports, thus making them ineligible to board an international flight (Remember, Michael Chertoff said that "We were really getting quite close to the execution phase" of the plot);
NBC also reports that the U.S. pressured Britain to arrest the plotters earlier than they had otherwise wanted;
The only statement that the accused were planning to use liquid explosives on planes came from an accused murderer who was on the run in Pakistan and subsequently tortured;
The explosive the plotters were supposed to be using was identified by government officials to be TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, which as Thomas C. Greene explains, is extremely volatile during preparation, requires carefully controlled conditions to properly mix, including refrigeration (difficult to do in "false-bottomed sports drink bottles") and would require an extremely large quantity in order to damage an aircraft. The idea that a) sufficient quantities of TATP precursors could be smuggled aboard and b) it could be successfully mixed without either blowing up or overcoming the would-be terrorist with its fumes is preposterous.
Folks, this plot was never a plot. National security is being used as a political football, and the media, which could take this nonsensical story to pieces with a couple of days of research, is silent.
http://www.d
I feel Rob has rather lost the plot with his missiles conspiracy. Hezbollah in fact has 4, maybe 5, Iraninian-made missiles with ranges up to 80+ Km. The Katyushas are the baby short-range ones.
To avoid satellite identification of the launch sites, Hezbollah fired them largely from buildings in built-up areas or from its scores of tunnel complexes, inevitably jeopardising civilian lives and winning the PR war among the uninformed. Hesbollah had obviously been building, training and preparing for this little outrage for a good few years.
We shouldn't be falling for this crude propaganda though. The idea of Israeli troops firing rockets at Israel is just nuts, I don't think you'd find many officers or volunteers for attacking the homeland indiscriminately in any army, including Israel's.
Rob #88, 89
New York-based Human Rights Watch has called Hezbollah attacks a war crime, for lobbing rockets blindly into civilian areas in norther Israel. Many of the launched 4000+ rockets consisted of warheads packed with thousand of metal ball bearings, INTENDED to inflict maximum harm and massive civilian casualties!! So, Hezbollah is equally guilty for breaking humanitarian law.Judgement errors are bound to exist and bombs falling off target from the air is nothing new. This also applies to Hezbollah bombing of UN post a week early after Israel bombed it by mistake. In trying to "pin-point" her target, civilian casualities can never be avoided because Hezbollah hides, stores weapons and shoots rockets from among the population beside building bunkers under blocks of building.
#94 RC Fife,
Missile Conspiracy...
Not a conspiracy.. just asking the question.
# 92 AM
No not rubbing my hands in glee with any rockets being fired at Israel.. Quite the opposite, I am totally against war and Violence.
I know that most Israelis are against war and many are innocent casualties. That includes many soldiers that have to serve in the military.
Israel should pack up and go ===================By Nadim Shehadi ( ISRAELI ) What is the logic that will emerge from this war? If Israel can exist only by destroying the neighborhood, then it's time to declare it a failed state. The Zionist dream has turned into a nightmare and is not viable.
If the future holds more of the same, then the time has come to reconsider the whole project. Every state has a duty to defend its citizens, but also it has a duty to provide them with security and the two are different. The prospects are for more destruction, fanaticism, violence and hatred. No unilateral separation can isolate Israel from this, nor can the region or the world live with the consequences. This seems to be the only choice, and Israel must do itself and others a favor and go away.
The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza shows a country deprived of all humanity. The West Bank is unliveable, the population strangled into three prison clusters. Concrete barriers, barbed wires, bypass roads, human beings emerging like rats from underground tunnels, daily humiliation from hundreds of checkpoints. Gaza has been under siege since the population dared to elect Hamas, its infrastructure has been obliterated and its population has been driven to despair in what now seems like a dress rehearsal for what was to come in Lebanon.
Etc... http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750500.html
Rob - I guess you didn't read to the end.
Last paragraphThe writer, a Lebanese economist, is an Associate Fellow at the Middle East Program at Chatham House.
I don't think he will be so pleased at you calling him Israeli
Tommy from Edinburgh.
Your post suggests you would not mind following Sharia laws enforced in your country. Do you think such things will reduce the instances of terror?
Chris is right in saying that it will result in two fragments within a society. You know what comes next. A partition. As we have a Pakistan you will have your own version.
In India the muslims already have their own personal laws, a special subsidy for going to Haj (their pilgrimage), government paying salaries of Maulvis (muslim clerics) while it takes money from temple funds. But are they satisfied?
No! Not at all!
They also want reservations in educational institutions (and the traitors governing us are contemplating that).
What happens if an insect falls in a cup of coffee?!
The British : will throw the cup into the street and leave the coffee shop for good. The American: will get the insect out and drink the coffee. The Chinese: will eat the insect and drink the coffee.
The Israeli will: (1) Sell the coffee to the American and the insect to the Chinese. (2) Cry on all media channels that he feels insecure. (3) Accuse the Palestinians, Hizb Allah, Syria and Iran of using germ-weapons. (4) Keep on crying about anti-semitism and violations of human rights. (5) Ask the Palestinian President to stop planting insects in the cups of coffee. (6) Re-occupy the West Bank, Gaza Strip. (7) Demolish houses, confiscate lands, cut water and electrity from Palestinian houses and randomly shoot Palestinians. (8) Ask the United States for urgent military support and a loan of one million dollars in order to buy a new cup of coffee. (9) Ask the United Nations to punish the coffee-shop owner by making him offer free coffee to him till the end of the century. (10) Last but not least, accuse the whole world to be standing still, not even sympathizing with the Israeli Nation.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753073.html
It is now a known fact, throughout the entire world that the Jews have lived peacefully, as Arabs, in Arabian countries with their fellow Muslim and Christian neighboors. Whilst Jews were prosecuted and humiliated in Europe, the Jews in Arabian countries enjoyed the same freedom and social status as any other Arab. It was not until the Zionist movement began taking form, that Zionists started manipulating, and in some cases indirectly forcing Jews from not only Arabia, but all of the world, to move to their `Eretz Yisrael`, Greater Israel.
Take the bombing of the synagogues in Baghdad in 1928 for example. It is now a known fact that it was carried out by Zionists, trying to spread fear in Iraqi Jews, to force them to move to Israel.
'a lot of jews still live in all islamic countries including iran and refuse to migrate to the dream land"
The famous 18 synagogues in Tehran, that the Mickey Mouse US dont see.
Israel should stop to believe in its own propaganda, but this has allready been said many times....
You are right David. Both Hamas and Hezbollah were created in response to Isreali policies. If Isreal implements UN Res 242 all the reasons for war are eliminated. Oh, there will always be one group or another that will cause problems but not from the surrounding states. No problems with Jordan, No problems with Egypt and their will be none with Syria, Lebanon or the Palestinians. Isreal MUST one day comply with Int`l law either willingly or forcibly. Why not willingly?
These are quotes from arab, jews, in a chatroom..Interesting to see how other EDUCATED people think..
Truely saddened I am by the blatant anti-Semitism, anti-Israeli comments by many in this thread, especially those from the home of my ancestors - Britain.
You Brits now seem to have a strange world view - maybe you need to start looking inward more and and figure out how you're going to stop the next wave of home-grown terrorism on the Tube before you all end up living in dhimmitude.
Israel will prevale in this long from over war and we will continue to back her.
Title: hezbollah : israel`s child Name: david City: tel aviv State: It is important to remind that hezbolla is child of israeli policy in lebanon.If Israel had been thinking in a peaceful way, the last 40 years and had been respecting neighboors territories, the little childs Hamas or Hezbolla wouldn`t have born nor wouldn`t be grown up now. So you can write you don`t know hezbolla. But it`s funny cause it is your child.The same story happens today : israeli war in lebanon will bring other angry childs. what are you gonna say in 20 years ?"I don`t understand them ????"
Title: Hezbollah is a reaction to Israel`s policy in Lebanon Name: Karim City: Tyre State: Lebanon It is Israel`s short sightedness who has created all the necessary conditions for the emergence of hezbollah. Israel has tought the citizens of South Lebanon over the last 50 years that it understands only the language of force & respects only the strong. The chiites in Lebanon were the last to take the arms & make their own militias. This occurred massively only after the 1982 invasion because they have seen that Israel`s real target in Lebanon was to control Lebanon`s resources, destroy its economy & its example of peaceful cohabitation among many communities. Not withstanding the above, eventhough Hezbollah wants theoratically the destruction of Israel, it has clearly stated in year 2000 that it will not extend its operations into Palestine. Hezbollah has also shown during the last 6 years that it was targeting the Israeli civilians only in reaction to civilian casualties on the Lebanese side. In fact South Lebanon has never been so peaceful as it has been during the last 6 years.
Title: Jews and Muslims #1 Name: Jake in Texas City: State: Texas "give me single example of crime muslims commited against jews before 1948"
Is this a joke? Aside from being second-class citizens at best with restrictions on where we could live, what we could wear, what we could do for a living, forced conversion, and the occasional massacre, things were great!
You want one example? How about the "Damascus Affair" of 1840 when, accused of a blood libel, the leaders of the community were tortured with their teeth and beards pulled out, the synagogue was destroyed by a mob, the Torah burned, and many died. The governor at that time was at Egyptian, like you Nermin. Why don`t you try reading more history books and watching less Al Jazeera.
Title: To Nermin Name: Karim City: Tyre State: Lebanon Nermin: A single crime is not a criteria. There are crimes everyday even among people of the same faith. Facts are however that the jews were well treated under the Islamic rule whether in Spain under the Omeyyades, later on under the Ottomans or even now in many arabic & islamic countries. If the jews were not well treated then why to emigrate from the Christian monarchies towards the Islamic states at that time ? Do you know that despite of everything there are until today many Lebanese jews that are well known & respected having prosperous businesses in Lebanon itself!
Title: jews in egypt Name: nermin City: cairo State: egypt there are about 3000 jews in egypt and you can check by yourself..also the jewish temple in cairo in still there and the other in Alex ..
Title: Humanitarian Terrorists? Name: Niall City: State: Just because Hamas and Hezbolla have a humanitarian function doesn`t mean they are not terrorists. The humanitarian function is designed specifically to confuse and deflect attention from their terrorist nature.Take away their terrorist function and the psuedo humanitarian function will disappear as well. I do agree that new tactics in how to fight them need to be developed, but appeasement isn`t the answer.I think the Geneva Convention needs to be re-written to deal specifically with the rise of militias and asymmetric warfare.
Title: Hizbullah: Resistance Fighters Name: Robert Phillips City: Fayetteville State: Texas For those of you who say that Hizbullah is simply a terrorist organization, please enlighten me about something. Before July 13, when Israel began massive bombing of Lebanese civilian areas, how many Israeli civilians (repeat, civilians) had Hizbullah killed in the last, say, 10 years? Also, how many Lebanese civilians did the IDF kill in the same period?
I believe the answer to the first question is one Israeli woman, accidentally killed by a Hizbullah rocket fired at an Israeli warplane violating Lebanon`s airspace. I believe the answer to the second question is several thousand Lebanese civilians. Am I wrong?
Doesn`t your definition of terrorism (like America`s) entail an intent to kill, harm, and/or terrorize civilians?
Robert Earl PhillipsFayetteville, Texas
You know Rima - if people want to read Haaretz talk back they can just go to the paper. They are hear to take part in Scotsman discussions.And as you see - there are posts in Haaretz from both sides not just the side you chose to show.
AM #110,That was PROVEN to be the work of MOSSAD.Also, there was bombing of one synagogue in iraq PROVEN to have been done by the mossad in order to get the jews there to move to Israel, since THEY DONT WANT TO.
Assymetric warfare???loooolthis is a joke right AM??Ur gonna tell me that Hezbollah is better armed than the IDF??Then you really are DELUSIONAL.
http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.htmlThis is written by A JEW living ib the arab countries and about his experience in the arab countires and how the MOSSAD had been terrorizing them....
Title: Was the Irgun , Hagannah, Lehi, Stern Gang Terrorists ??? Name: Fatima City: State: May be for the British but for the jews they were heros working hard to make the homeland a reality and not a dream . that why Hezbollah is not a terrorist org , it wants lebanon Freedom from the claws of Israel . the french Resistance was also viewed as terrorist by the German Nazis , the Algerians resistants were seen by France as terrorits but algeria has named streets and Airports after them dying for the freedom of their people .
Brian, I'm a Brit
This thread is not ant-semitic, anti-jew, ant-israeli... Just Anti-war!, Against killing people on both sides.
I am not anti-British... However..
I am ashamed that our Government allowed Bombs to be shipped through the UK.. Knowing that there was a distinct possibility they would be dropped on Civillian homes in Lebanon.
I am ashamed that our Government did not call for a ceasefire from day 1.
I am ashamed that our Government voted against condemming Israel for UN Human Rights Violations when I have seen such violations live on TV. WHen the Violations are FACT.
I have written to MP's and asked for Tony Blair and other MP's who have supported this venture to be removed from office. "Not Fit for Purpose"
You should watch the following documentary, It has contributions by many prominent Israelis and Journalists; you may understand a wee bit better;
It gives a comparison of what is reported in the US, in Europe and what actually happened..
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-78281237143849...
Then go to the following site. It has links to dozens of other news articles that may be of interest;http://whatreallyhappened.com/categories/index.htm
Title: ARAB ACCOUNABILITY?? Name: john City: amman State: jordan Well Ben, You don`t "win" land in war. As a matter of Int`l law no country can keep territory taken in war. You also may not build settlements OR annex land. I believe Isreal has a Legal and moral right to exist within their INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED BORDERS, Which is the 1967 lines. You will solve all your problems with your neighbors by getting your butts back over the line.
Oh you should all know that the french canadian party leadr from quebec has issued a statement saying that Stephen harper's party, or the mighty conservatives if u will, have been contactig jews after their repeating UNCONDITIONAL support and statements for Israel to ask them to vote for them and finance their campaign!!!How sad!!
PLEASE people, take a look at what zionists think, just to tell you that they DONT wanna give any lands back, they beleive it is RIGHTFULLY THEIRS!!
'The difference betw. the Jewish terrorists and the ME -terrorists is that the Jewish terrorists fought for what was rightfully theirs: the land of Israel....which at the time was under the British rule...against whom the Pals never raised, wonder why, if this was their land!? Whereas the present day ME-terrorists (Hizbollah, Hamas, Intifada) are fighting to steal something that is not theirs and never has been; the land of the Jews!'as posted on http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/753073.html
Title: What`s Hizbollah fighting for?? Name: Ahmad City: Perth State: WA There`s one thing that your media hasn`t reported about:Hizbollah mentioned from the beginning of the war, that it does not want to go to an open war. The aim behind the 12th July was so that those soldiers kidnapped would be swapped for the lebanese prisoners of war that have spent more than 28 years in israeli prisons.
To find out whose the terrorist? ask previous prisoners of war that hizbollah had, regarding how they were treated; especially the one that was released in 2004 but was imprisoned in Israel because he said he was treated well by hizbollah.
Title: lisa Name: Rod from Oz City: Melbourne State: Australia Lisa says: "if your family was blown up to pieces by one of hezbollahs rockets you wouldnt be speaking so kindly of them you hypocrite."
Perhaps, lisa, but far, far more ordinary families were "blown up" by Israeli bombs than by Hezbollah rockets in this conflict, and all of the Hezbollah rockets that did any killing landed AFTER, and in response to, the beginning of the Israeli bombing campaign.
If you were a member of one of those families in Lebanon wouldn`t you, too, be seeing Israel, not Hezbollah, as the bad guy? The Israeli military adventure sadly brought death to many ordinary people of both Lebanon and Israel.
Title: Nermin the ridiculous #107 Name: Zardos City: State: You ask, in #1, and I quote, "give me single example of crime muslims commited against jews before 1948.".....I give you as an example 1929 Riots in Hebron and you retort with a lame excuse that the Arabs were provoked! What a chutzpah! And what a silly response by you.Those slaughtered in Hebron were indigenous orthodox Jews who had resided in Hebron peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. They were not Zionists, nor were they interested in Zionism.Your answer is part of the problem. You have an excuse for every excess, every crime committed every injustice done. You are an apologist for fanaticism and thus part and parcel of the problem.
Israelis Using Uranium Depleted Munitions
http://www.innworldreport.net/archives/2006/08/16/index.html#
Sick!
The million dollar question concering the Israel/Hezbollah war. the whole world knows how many Israeli soldiers were killed in battle.but. no one except Hezbollah knows how many of it terrorists were killed by Israeli Armed Forces since the terrorists like the world over are cowards they always dress as civillians. and are never unpertureb of innocent men.women and children killed yet going by the many comments on the Israel/Hezbollah war many people seem to have a habit of ignoring the difference between what is normal and what is abnormal. perhaps the reason is simple they use that well known arab aphrism 'Blame the Jews'
James,If you EVER took a plave out of England and went to the south of Lebanon, you would see what the hezbollah fighters look like and how they dress.They actually dont dress as civilians but in combatt outfits.Plus, I dont beleive that we are part of hezbollah when we are women and kids of 0 to 15 years old which constituted 80% of the civilians killed.so, if you find urself unable to answer all the accusations against Israel, stay silent or do some research instead of usin some non sense like the arabs always say 'blame the jews'...Lebanese put fault on Hezbollah BECAUSE THE LEBANESE GOVT should have negotiated the prisoners issue but WE KNOW THAT WE ARE FACING A REAL TERRORIST STATE THAT WANTS NOTHING BUT THE DESTRUCTION OF LEBANON AND THATS ISRAEL.
Rob in London, if you don't want beautiful London to become Londonistan you will need to wake up to the fact that you sometimes have to use force, even extreme force, to defend yourself. Israel has been forced to do this since the first day she was attacked by the Arabs back in '48. And the battle will go on.
Rima, your comment was crude and ugly that's why I complained about it. Your attitude is also along the same lines. Crude slurs against our Prime Minister just damage your credibility. PM Harper has made sense out of and brought clarity to Canada's foreign policy. God bless him for it. In view of your nasty comments towards him I think I'll send him/the Conservative Party an extra cheque on top of the donation I already made this month to the Israeli Defence Forces. Thanks Rima!
Brian # 130
Since When is Killing Civillians Defence?
The two Israelis were captured in Lebanon.. The Iraelis sent in commandos to rescue them,,, 8 were killed in Lebanon..
Israel, then Bombed Beirut Airport and numerous other Civilian Targets before Hezbollah retaliated with rockets.
In "Self Defence" the Israelis, pre-planned the war and Killed Over 1,100 Literally DEFENCELESS people!
Did the Israelis use Bunker Buster Bombs With Depleted Uranium in Beirut???? We will soon find out.
Lebanon's 9-11http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14180.htm
It's a pity RIMA that you didn't fall on your own analogy. when you believe one should start being extra careful were one treads.as for your clumsy Hezbollah propaganda that Israel was to blame for the battle against your friends the Hezbollah terrorists is nothing new we also had Quislings in England during the 1939-45 war.so did France.Italy.America and many more so i'am not that surprised in this day and age you are more sympathetic towards Hezbollah than the Lebanon Government.
War is not good for anyone!
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4854/kittyminejw0.jpg
Oh Brian, I'd like you to know that a church in lebanon was bombed by the IDF and it had christian civilians hiding in it.Ya Brian, you're right, Harper has put our foreigh policy where it belongs, alongside the most hated country all OVER THE WORLD, I guess ur motto would follow his..'kill those AI-RABS, KILL' EM ALL'
Rima I generally sleep well at nite and dream of rows of heavy IDF tanks rolling over - er - well never mind. I guess you live in Toronto or perhaps Montreal so I'm not surprised at your tone and attitude. Did you know what we call Toronto out here? Well never mind that either!
Actually I'm better educated than you might think and it shows in how I have generally refrained from calling you names. We both have our viewpoints and both are obviously strongly held. Be that as it may I think that my side will prevale - Israel will survive and even prosper and eventually the West will drag the Arab world out of the 6th century, albeit with some very heavy doses of discipline.
Tough world and when you say you are going to drive another nation and its people into the sea you had better be prepared for some very, very bad days. I wish the Muslim/Arab world would see this.
I find it astonishing that Brian's claim to be intelligent has thus far not been evident is his ignorant diatribe against a part of the world that I am certain he has not and never will visit. Put your money where your mouth is Brian - offer youself up as a jew martyr - I'm sure the the Israeli government will appreciate your stupidity.
Brian, read some balanced accounts of the Middle East situation before embarrassing yourself so publicly. At least the Arabs can claim purity of race. Your own mongrel North American heritage underpins your ignorance and low self confidence. Canada is however, a gracious nation and should stay out ot Lebanon. The UN peace force should surround Israel to stop the wars.
Anne, Anne, my old Scottish great-grand dad is probably spinning in his grave outside Winnipeg here at such churlish comments made by a wee Scottish lass. Actually, I haven't levelled a diatribe in your direction at all. If I had done so you would know! Furthermore Annie, I don't feel embarrassed at all, just ashamed of some of the other views expressed in this particular thread. I've never owned a mongrel but it sounds like you could be one! So what I've learned today is that anti-Semitism and ignorance is alive and well in not only my own country, Canada but also Scotland. Geez, you people.
Dear Brian, your dyslexic forename sums you up. Everyone has an old Scottish grand-daddy - and yes the Celts are a proud mongrel race. But, why should anti-semitism be so bad and anti-muslim so good? I am, actually, anti anyone who believes they have the right to deny others of peace in this desperately vicious world - in the name of a supernatural entity that cannot be called to account. If the semites are so special in North America and the US - give them a chunk of your land, there's plenty of it.
Is this the feckin Rima show? Who is paying you hunny?
Who IS this Brian? Where did you get him? Intelligent? Intelligent? He claims he hasnt insulted Anne and this is THE measure of his "intelligence" I would guess that calling a lady a mongrel is somewhat insulting, albeit at an extremely low level. At Brian's level.Is he for real???
Brian From Canada
Shona,Rima,Anne are all the same person. She hates jews and is just a sick lonely moron. You will get tired of her quickly.
Good posts Brian
Brian #130
You're right. Rima comment was crude and ugly. Her "rant & rave" style and an obsession of Hezbollah will not help to change the mind and opinion of Anti-terrorist readers. Precisely, Hezbollah are the ones causing bloodshed and havoc in Lebanon with their silly deadly cross-border attack on Israel and kidnapping soldiers in the first place!
Rima #135: "It's odd how some soldiers from IDF have given their resignation after Lebanon attack saying it is just immoral what the govt is doing."
Really?? Many Israeli soldiers are only displeased with their govt indecisiveness and for accepting a ceasefire without crushing Hezbollah. Resignation does not arise!
You also claimed Hezbollah don't dress as civilians but in combat outfits. A few may have donned combat outfits but in the event of war, many more choose to dress like civilians inorder to avoid being recognised and target by Israeli ground troop. There were reports of Israeli soldiers complaining of difficulty in distinguishing between Hezbollah and innocent civilians because Hezbollah don't wear uniform!
It seems that Yoram was taught by Americans, otherwise he'd be writing about practising, not practice! No wonder his views are such as they are then.
Thanks for the help guys! (Brian US, Peter from Oz and Patricia. I thought this was getting a little one sided. Funny how these things quickly deteriorate into name calling and bluster when met with the opposite viewpoint. I'm even getting sucked in. Was playing Tom Cochrane's "Lunatic Fringe" on the way into work this am and a couple of names came to mind - Anne and Rima. You both may not like Israel and the Jews but you'll have to get used to them - there are lots of us who are prepared to support them. Have a nice day!
Patricia,lol, really, do you have a direct channel with the IDF?Your unbacked claims mean absolutley nothing...and for the soldiers who resigned, no honey, you have that wrong, they actually clearly stated that they were outraged(not all of them obviously, just the moral ones), by the force if the attcks and the atrocious results of it...the people who are unhappy with the govt's stopping slaughtering civilians are SOME people of israel, those anti-arabs..It's odd, I watched a report yesterday on CNN of all channels in which an israeli woman who lives in the north was hurt by a rocket attack and she said, I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THESE ROCKETS COULD BE DANGEROUS TO CIVILIANS...shot herself in the leg there, meaning those rocket attacks were not as frequent as the israeli govt likes to pretend...
Brian,it's so funny how you have absolutley nothing to say that's bringing any backed claims to this debate. All u have to say is that me and ann and shona are the same person!!!No but what an ignorant you are!!Honey I already told u bozo's, go check the IP adresses and what countries they are from!! It's hard for you my dear Brian to conceive that there are still some moral people in this world who really try to understand this conflict at it's source instead of tainting a whole population with a very ugly brush...like ANN said, u probably NEVER visited any arab countries, especially LEBANON, who is known to be the st-tropez, the paris and the switzerland of the middle east...U just remove my comment where I called ur home town winterpeg..lolPathetic , I gotta say...U know what ur problem is Brian and all others who are dumb enough to think like you, u keep accusing me of being pro-terrorist, which proves that u have not undrestood anything that I posted..I have always and repeatdly said that terrorists need to be crushed and that ISRAEL has the right to exist within its internationnaly RECOGNIZED borde
But I guess its ok for the americans to terrorise anybody else then americans or israelis...Bin laden has NOTHING to do with Iraq, so why all these massacres, why let this country be now a ground for terrorist insurgents who are looking for an excuse to blow themselves up??? hundreds of thousands of inncoent civilians are dead there..for what??? WMD documents were forged, did anyone do anything about it? But u know what Brian, its because its not ur country that being bombed, thats why u dont give a f***....Please, i have said it before, all u people need to get some serious education about the conflict between israel and its neighbours which HAS nothing to do with the war on terror. ISRAEL is staeling other peoples lands, terrorising people, killing civilians, using civilians as human shileds..I ahve provided sourced documents, facts, international organizations such as amnesty, HRW, etc.. who have accused Israel of DELIBERATLY KILLING CIVILIANS, torture, illegal killings, etc..I am lebanese and I am christian, so I dont want islamic terorists more than u do brian, but that ur freaking problem, is that ur brain is not able to grasp the concept, that this conflict started when ISRAEL invaded my country and decided to occupy it, once u eliminate the source of the conflict, this party will no longer be wupported by anyone, because those who support it are doing it for a national reason, defendign our country against israeli aggression..once the support stops, the party WILL be isolated and will have no choice but to disarm which they clearly said they are willign to do.U know, the french resistance was also considered terrorist org. by the nazis!!In any case, I keep telling u people, prove me wrong, find me one proven terror attack for hezbollah outside of lebanon agaisnt ISRAELI MILITARY targets. Rocket attacks are always in retaliation..I told u it is documented the # of time israel has crossed the blue line after 2000, breaking the
Brian said:You both may not like Israel and the Jews but you'll have to get used to them - there are lots of us who are prepared to support them. Have a nice day
U see what claims u bring, thats all u have to say, that we dont like jews..lolBuddy jews live in the arab country in peace and they dont even wanna go to israel..the mossad has been behind many attacks to get to go to israel!!!half of my friends are jewish!!Not all jews support their govts and are anti-arabs u know!!anyways like always, all u people say is non-sense..u can never argue with actual;y educated responses...
Brian u said: Tough world and when you say you are going to drive another nation and its people into the sea you had better be prepared for some very, very bad days. I wish the Muslim/Arab world would see this.
What a silly person u r!!! Who taught u that Brian?CNN, FOX, BUSH, HARPER??When did u ever hear the lebanese govt saying that before they invaded lebanon in 1978?? The lebanese, especially the shiia, WELCOMED the israelis in in order for them to get the PLO out of lebanon because we knew it was only trouble if this conflict was brought to our lands and we did not want any proxy war on our soil..Little did we know, the army that we welcomed, after the PLO left lebanon, had some ulterior motives, decided to expnad their troops all the way up to beirut, the capital, started planting the israeli flag on OUR soil!!! Killing our civilians, terrorizing them, kidnapping them....And u say after all this that if it the native americans came and did that to your stupid province, ur reaction would be what? come and take my land and my home, right?I dont think u would be liking ur aboriginal neighbours too much anymore, not because u are racist and u hate abosiginals cos u have some aboriginals living within winnipeg, who oppose what the israeli govt is doing ILLEGALLY, but u just dont like the aboriginal authority and its policies.Now is this example too hard for you to grasp, are you able to make the parrallel with the situation there?
'who oppose what the israeli govt is doing ILLEGALLY,'Sorry, I meant the aboriginal authority which I am comparing tothe israeli govt just in case u didnt grasp it :)
Rima #150
I refer to your first paragraph of #135 (being removed already).It was you who said some Israeli soldiers resigned because of what their govt did and now, you're telling me they were actually outraged! You are not consistent. No wonder I have also lost interest in your silly "preaching" here. They meant absolutely nothing to me either!Your posters nos: 107, 122, 135 and 137 are all removed. Good riddance all those trash!!!To improve yourself and starting yet another round of "rant & rave" habit of yours, you can move on to other heading "Lebanon warns missile attacks on Israel will be seen as collaboration with enemy" and "Hezbollah's 80m aid".
Sorry, no, I couldn't grasp it, Rima, I'm just too stupid I guess. You are very lucky to have alternate citizenship and be able to live in either Torontostan or Montberuit, Canada and not have to be part of the war - yet. I don't think any of us should be under any illusions that the war between Israel and Hezbo is over in spite of the un peace force which may get put together. If it does it's bound to be an ineffective force that will just get in the way anyway. Maybe kofi annan should personally lead it.
The next time Hezbo sends a rocket over to kill innocent civilians or an IDF member the war will be on again and I hope the IDF will finish the job they didn't this time. The complete elimination of Hezbo would be a good thing. I wouldn't blame Israel for permanently confiscating the land Hezbo occupied either. N'uff said. Rima why don't you go back there and help Hezbo hold the line??
Rima (AKA rant & Rave)
I think you have worn out your welcome again :)
Rima, don't you think that it would be in everyones best interest for hezbooboo just to disarm? You know what will happen if they don't. Maybe thats what you want deep down. I am with you on that.
Patricia,im sorry honey that u do not have the required intelligence to refute my arguments with something worthy of posting. All u can do is remove my comments!! lolHow sad!how much are the israelis paying u to monitor sites and turn the public opinion? They already do it with the american media, I guess they got u too, or maybe ur doing it for free, maybe thats how much u cost...NADA
Ceasefire hardly in tatters, though if it were you would be quite clearly blaming Israeli actions rather than questioning that Hezbollah actions were responsible. From the colonnies it does appear that your estemed paper quite clearly favours the anti-Israel side, whoever they happen to be in any situation. Wasn't like that when I left Glasgow. Was it ever mentioned in your pages that Hezbollah rockets were only targetted at civillian targets, or that Israel sufferred more rocket attacks than uk endured in whole of WWII ? balance please.
Laurence,you are very misguided. Rocket attacks from hezbollah into israel are documented and have made less than 90 civilian casualties in the last 6 years. 90% of hezbollah 's attacks were aimed at israeli military inside lebanon.Get your facts straight.
Laurence,ur ministers in canada are asking that hezbollah be removed from the terrorist list just like the european union has refused to put them on that list!!
Oh and laurence,ALL rocket attacks into civilian areas were in retaliation agaisnt israeli agression.
Rima #153.
You say Hezbollah was formed due to Israeli attacks. Then Haganah was also formed due to 1920 and 1921 Arab attacks (pogrom of Jews in Jerusalem Hebron Haifa and Jaffa).
Before 1978 Lebanon had already participated in attack against Israel. In the 1948 Arab Israel war Egypt Iraq Jordan Syria and Lebanon all participated. Israel defeated all of them on its own. How do you say the conflict started when Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978 when Lebanon along with others had invaded them in 1948? Why was that? For Sheba farms?
To you Hezbollah may seem a legitimate resistance organization. Maybe it is. But it is also true that a part of their manifesto was to bring about Islamic revolution of Lebanon. This is a side that SHOULD worry you. PLO, Lashkar e Tayyaba, Jaish e Muhammad, Taliban, all have local agendas and were formed because of them. But there is a common underlying ideology to them all that seeks to Islamise the world. So they frequently support each other.
I know you don't support extremists. You already said that. But you are under the illusion that moderate muslims will be able to silence the extremists if this crisis is resolved. Well they didn't silence them in 1920 when the Arabs were killing Jews in Jaffa before Israel was even formed. What makes you think they will now?
Anurag,Im really sorry to say that u are GREATLY misinformed.Please read ur history as it was ISRAEL that declared a preventive war on 5 arab states and lebanon WAS NEVER ONE OF THEM.I tell you that we welcomed israelis in to get the PLO out and they had said they are only in for the PLO but decided to stay for 22 years afterwards.Anurag, many of the attacks done agaisnt jews before 48 were done by non-arabs and non-muslims, by other jews themselves.Do you have any idea how many attacks the mossad had planned agaisnt jews living peacefulyl in aran countries post 48 in order to get them to move to israel?There are hundreds of testimonies of jews living in lebanon, iran, egypt, morroco, etc. in peace and dignity.Now seriously Anurag, where in the world did u get that information that lebanon invaded israel in 48????????????????Im sorry buddy, I can see how misinformed you are.You keep agreeing that hezbollah is a resistance movement, their first leader wanted to install islam in the whole country but he died, fortunatley. His new leader CHANGED the organization as a whole, its mission, its aid to the most deprived and emprovished commnity in lebanon, always left out, the shiias.You are mixing up a lot of things, I urge you to go back to ur history books.Jews have been KNOWN to have lived for centuries in arab countries in peace while they were persecuted all throughout europe by CHRISTIANS.
Rima, a serious question for you, honey. Seeing as how you have so much passion for Lebanon and the Lebanese people why are you living Canada - how can you possibly help the situation living in Montberuit? Shouldn't you be shovelling broken concrete in Lebanon right now?
Shouldn't you be helping Hezbo distribute Iran's recycled oil money to those worthy Lebanese citizens who have offered cover, support and encouragement to Hezbo to launch another ball bearing filled missile into some Jewish grandmother's apartment in Israel?? Come on, why don't you do something useful?
Anurag, as I have said, Israel declared war on those 5 states..they DID NOT INVADE ISRAEL TO OCCUPY IT!!they were fighting agaisnt the war launched by israel..
Brian,please keep ur ignorant comments to urself...why dont u go fight in afghanistan or hell even join the american army in iraq (in which so many soldiers have deserted because of the inhuman mission they have there), or even join the IDF...why are u staying in winterpeg?as always Brian, nothing challenign from your part, only non-sense..Ill leave you blab by urself now..
"Everyone there should move, should run, should grab more hills, expand the territory. Everything that's grabbed, will be in our hands. Everything we don't grab will be in their hands." — Ariel Sharon, as Israeli Foreign Minister, in comments broadcast on Israeli radio, November 15, 1998. [1]
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembe...
on ethnic cleansing in israel:
On February 7, 1948, three months into the war, Ben-Gurion told Mapai's Central Committee that in Jerusalem's Western neighborhoods, from which the Arabs had fled or been expelled, he had seen:
"no strangers [Palestinian Arabs]. Not since Jerusalem's destruction in the days of the Romans has it been so Jewish. . . . I do not assume this will change. . . . And what happened in Jerusalem . . . could well happen in great parts of the country . . if we hold one, it is very possible that in coming six to eight or ten months of the war there will take place great changes. . . . Certainly there will be great changes in the composition of the population of the country."
Similarly on August 7, 1937 he also stated to the Zionist Assembly during their debate of the Peel Commission:
". . . In many parts of the country new settlement will not be possible without transferring the [Palestinian] Arab fellahin. . . it is important that this plan comes from the [British Peel] Commission and not from us. . . . Jewish power, which grows steadily, will also increase our possibilities to carry out the transfer on a large scale. You must remember, that this system embodies an important humane and Zionist idea, to transfer parts of a people to their country and to settle empty lands. We believe that this action will also bring us closer to an agreement with the Arabs." (Ben Gurion-Righteous Victims, p. 143)
Fellahin=arabic slang for farmers, uneducated, uncivilized people
On the same subject, Ben-Gurion wrote in 1937:
"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." (Righteous Victims, p. 144)
Weitz was obsessed with "transferring" the Palestinian people to neighboring Arab countries in a way that consumed all his thoughts. He wrote in his diary on December 20, 1940:
"it must be clear that there is no room in the country for both [Arab and Jewish] peoples . . . If the [Palestinian] Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us . . . The only solution [after the end of WW II] is a Land of Israel, at least a western land of Israel [i.e. Palestine since Transjordan is the eastern portion], without [Palestinian] Arabs. There is no room here for compromises . . . There is no way but to transfer the [Palestinian] Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them, save perhaps for [the Palestinian Arabs of] Bethlehem, Nazareth, and the old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one [Bedouin] tribe. The transfer must be directed at Iraq, Syria, and even Transjordan [eastern portion of Eretz Yisrael]. For this goal funds will be found . . . An only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers and the Jewish problem will cease to exist. There is no other solution." (Benny Morris, p. 27 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, 131-132)
On Jun 26, 1941, Yosef Weitz was on a journey nearby al-Qubab in central Palestine, and he wrote in his diary:
"Through out the journey my reflections were focused on that plan, about which I have been thinking for year; the plan . . . . of evacuating the country for us [Jews]. I know that difficulties . . . but only through population transfer will redemption come. . . . There is no room for us with our neighbours. . . . development is a very slow process . . . . They [the Palestinian Arabs] are too many and too much rooted [in the country] . . . . the only way is to cut and eradicate them from the roots. I feel that this is the truth. . . . I am beginning to understand the essence of the MIRACLE which should happen with the arrival of the Messiah; MIRACLE does not happen in evolution, but all of a sudden, in one moment. . . . I can see the enormous difficulties but this should not deflect us from our aim; on the contrary, we must double our efforts to overcome the difficulties and find a listening ear, first in America, then in Britain and then in the neighboring countries. There the money will make it. People and money will be transferred there. We will set up an apparatus from the Yishuv manned by distinguished experts and these will supervise the [Palestinian] Arab transfer and resettlement and a second apparatus will receive the [Jewish] redeemers and plant them in the land. . . . I pondered these measures all the way from Tel Aviv and also while visiting near Ramat Hasharon and K'afr Azar. This is the aim, the redemption, and the dream." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, 134)
Rima, please don't leave me to blab by myself now!
Actually, I was born here in Western Canada and I like it here. You don't sound like a natural born Canuck - you're a natural born Maronite Lebanese, why don't you go back there and do something to help those poor downtrodden and disadvantaged people rather than sip lattes in downtown Montberuit rolling the usual Arab fantasies about the murderous, aggressor Israelis over and over in your mind until you come to believe they're real? Hey, how many times has CSIS come to visit you in the last month?
In similar passion, he also spoke about expanding the "Jewish state's" borders to include areas in Lebanon and Syria. While meeting Menachem Ussishkin on June 22, 1941, Yosef Weitz wrote:
"The land of Israel is not small at all, if only the Arabs will be removed, and if its frontiers would be enlarged a little; to the north all the way to Litani [River in Lebanon], and to the east including the Golan Heights . . . . while the [Palestinian] Arabs be transferred to northern Syria and Iraq. . . . From now on we must work out a secret plan based on the removal of the [Palestinian] Arabs from here . . . [and] . . . to include it into American political circles. . . . today we have no other alternative. . . . We will not live here with Arabs." (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, 134-135)
"where in the world did u get that information that lebanon invaded israel in 48?????????????????"
I got it from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_war
I am sure the Lebanese sources say otherwise. Why would they call themselves aggressors? The wikipedia can be edited by anyone but they do maintain factual accuracy meaning they would not want to be wrong as to who attacked who.
You say riots against jews were false flag operations by jews themselves? But seeing the Muslim mentality I do not find it difficult to believe most were by Arabs.
"You keep agreeing that hezbollah is a resistance movement, their first leader wanted to install islam in the whole country but he died, fortunatley"
Others can come to take his place. The main problem is this poisonous ideology of theirs. Nothing related to this is to be trusted. Apart from that the people's movement is a different matter. Yes it may be a resistance force but so were Lenin and Stalin and Mao and they killed millions of their own people. I say get rid of them. They should not be allowed anywhere near your government. The issue can be resolved by dialogue between your people and Israelis or fought out by your own army not Hezbollah.
"Jews have been KNOWN to have lived for centuries in arab countries in peace"
"There are hundreds of testimonies of jews living in lebanon, iran, egypt, morroco, etc. in peace and dignity."
Yes and muslims have been known to live in India in peace and dignity but that does not mean riots don't happen. If you watch our news there is at least one riot every week somewhere in the country or in the process of developing. We did have a very bloody partition.
"You are mixing up a lot of things, I urge you to go back to ur history books."
A lot of those things are already mixe
Anurag, there was 5000 lebanese soldiers that were sent in that war AFTER israel had declared it. Nothing to compare with the israeli army who was at the time over 35000 soldiers, thus why they won.The poitn is, they didnt invade it like you think in order to occupy it. They lost, they got out. Period.This is not the same as another country thinking that it has the right to a lnad where people have been living for centuries, who is not even acknowledged internationally, so it occupies illegally and kicks people out of thei rhomes or makes their lives hell until they have no choice bu tto leave.BIG FREAKING DIFFERENCE ANURAG.
5000 Lebanese soldiers. But there were also Egyptian Jordanian Syrian and Iraqi soldiers including support by other Arab countries.
"The poitn is, they didnt invade it like you think in order to occupy it."
Why did they then? To drive them into the sea and kill them? They did not recognise the right of that state to exist. That fact remains. Similarly the Israelis do not recognise their right to exist.
The "Big difference" is the Israelis have better military hardware courtesy of the US. What would the Jehadis do if they had better equipment? Nuclear weapons as the Israelis do? They can hardly be called responsible.
Amnesty says Israel targeted civilians========================
Human Rights group Amnesty International accused Israel on Wednesday of deliberately targeting civilians during its campaign against Hizbollah in Lebanon and said the Jewish state may be guilty of war crimes.
Not only were food shops purposely destroyed by shelling and air attacks, Amnesty said, but aid convoys were deliberately blocked and hospitals and public utilities like water and power plants put out of action to force people to flee.
"The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of public works, power systems, civilian homes and industry was deliberate and an integral part of the military strategy rather than collateral damage," Amnesty said.
Israel says it did not target civilians and had warned non-combatants to leave south Lebanon. It also accused Hizbollah of launching rockets from civilian areas.
Amnesty called for the United Nations to quickly set up an independent inquiry into breaches of international humanitarian law it says were committed by both sides.
"In the context of the attacks on Lebanon's infrastructure, Israel has specifically violated the prohibition on indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks," it said.
"Israel may also have violated other prohibitions, including that on direct attacks against civilian objects. These violations are war crimes," Amnesty added.
WAR CRIMES?=========In a report "Israel/Lebanon: Deliberate destruction or 'collateral damage'", Amnesty said that between July 12 and August 14 when a fragile U.N.-brokered ceasefire came into force, Israel carried out more than 7,000 air attacks against 7,000 targets.
At the same time the Israeli Navy mounted a further 2,500 bombardments and long-range artillery fired an untold number of shells into southern Lebanon.
The attacks killed more than 1,100 people -- of whom one-third we
Rima #158: "...u do not have the required intelligence to refute my arguments with something worthy of posting. All u can do is remove my comments! how much are the Israelis paying u to..."
Are you "blind"? My reply to your arguments can be found at another heading "Soldiers turn on Israel" #20, in which you are also a participant there. Unlike you, I am not someone who likes to repeat similar statements over and over again!
You aren't any smarter nor possess required intelligence!! It seems you have nothing better to say. It's simply naive of you to ever believe I'm the one who complained about your comments, leading to removal. I only came to know about it while scrolling down the page to read comments posted here as usual. Whether you believe me or not, is up to you. The management of Scotsman is the right team to enquire.
Rima, how's life in Montberuit this am? Did you notice that another Canadian soldier was killed in afghanland yesterday? Do you consider our guys in Afghanistan in the same camp as the Israeli Defence Force guys and girls? I bet you do. So let me get this straight - you're living in montberuit with all the associated advantages of Canadian life (even though your loyalty is to Lebanon) but you have outright contempt for our government (you've already said this, in particular about our Prime Minister Harper) and what our Canadian Armed Forces are trying to accomplish in Afghanistan. My friends in CSIS will interested to know this, dear Rima.
Oh BRIAN,UR DEAR BELOVED stephen harper, u know what he's planning on doing??Recruiting NON-CANADIANS for the army!!!I hope ur happy with that, then we can have some more immigrants who know nothing about the country take the canadian citizenship and take some more advantage of the system.
Anurag,read up on the total amount of soldiers that came into israel (around 20K) versus 35 000 israeli soldiers.When I said they didnt come in to occupy it, yeah thats what I meant anurag, u dont read well do you?ISRAEL declared war on those 5 arab countries so they came in to fight in this declared war.It's over anurag, when they lost, the israelis were already invading those arab countries.Point is, all that is over, they made peace with jordan and egypt because they decided to pull out of the territories that they occupied there. So, they agreed on a peace agreement with israel.
Brian,u criticize the msulim world and u say they dont have freedom of speach!!So much for ur beleifs in that!! it's either sharing ur racist, redneck, uneducated point of view or then we are enemies of the countries!!Get a life man!! Seriously!! lol
I won't like the consequences??? Rima you couldn't possibly have been born here - your English isn't good enough - it's easy enough to tell that. Like I asked yesterday - if your loyalties are to Lebanon why don't you go back there and try to help Hezbo straighten the bloody place out?? You can't do much from Montberuit.
BTW, I actually have a pretty full life - now being made even fuller by keeping nutters and wackjobs like you in line! Hey Rima, speaking of PM Harper, do you support the Lieberal Party of Canada or are you an NDP Dipper??
lol Brian..my english is not good? Ok buddy...I happen to speak four langages, im pretty sure you can't claim the same..
I know celine, these people are what we canadians in ontario and quebec call, REDNECKS...
Celine,go to the page of 'israeli soldiers turn on israel'...we have many lebanese christians who have made some excellent arguments!!
lol...or he's probably feeding his ckickens now..lol
i don't think he would know how to feed chickens...lol
or maybe at this hour he already went to bed cos he has to wake up before dawn to milk his cows...LOL
or he went to his favorite hang out at the gaz station to show off his 1927 rusty chevy pick up ...LOL LOL it must me the latest model in winterpeg LOL
"Brian, go milk your cows and shut ur pathetic mouth! don't be a hater my friend. it will take you nowhere."
Aw, thanks celine and rima for setting me straight. With the maturity level you two wackjob wacknuts exhibit I know we have nothing to fear from you as you couldn't even find the trigger on a weapon or your explosives belt. No wonder the arabs continually get crushed by the IDF - it's a fairly easy job!! But then, I know, I know, I should "shut my pathetic mouth". Can't you guys do any better than that???
Brian, you have been blasting rima left and right, insulting montbeirut like you call it, and say other stupid remarks like that and now you got offended by the cow thing? oh boohoo, please don't start crying cos i gave you a taste of YOUR OWN medecine.
you are such a cry baby...boohoo...go cry behind your cow... you "wackjob wacknuts" (quoting YOUR words in case you haven't noticed).
So again, MY FRIEND!!!! name calling won't take you anywhere cos i can do it too. geezzz, you get offended so fast! why is that? is it cos maybe it's true??
Yes Celine, I am lucky that you found time to lower yourself to my level of stupidity. Geez, I'm so stupid I can't stand it! But why do you and your churlish friend over there in nutjob park, in montberuit, slander and otherwise blaspheme the poor lowly cow - our source of milk, roasts and steak?? Hey, I like steak - think I'll eat one this weekend. Is it because you resemble the poor lowly cow yourself and you can't stand that fact??
Hey, Celine and Rima, Hezbo got its ass whacked and real hard by IDF, so shut your collective mouth and go back to sweeping up the cow dung. Tell me do you use it for fuel for cooking over there in nutjob park??
Brian @ 200,these are very racist comments you are making. You're saying all arabs are terrorists, and you are insulting both celine and rima, while they are actually bringing some very compelling arguments and it seems rima is trying to explain to you what is really going on and that the war is not what you think it is (Israel against terrorists) but a much deeper conflict.She has provided sourced quotes, as well as documented material that is trying to prove to you that, as well as Rob who has provided some very insightful links, but all you keep repeating is your hater racist comments against arabs.I think you are in serious denial, and in SERIOUS miseducation. If you would take the time to read their peaceful messages, as well as the other israelis in this forum speaking out against Israel's actions, you would realize how insignificant your posts are, especially by calling them terrorists.
Oh and Brian, one last thing, I'll leave the sweeping of the cow dung to your mother. That must be her specialty after all since she has to live with you (I'm assuming that a loser like you must be at least 45 and still living with his mom)
Brian, if me looking like a cow would turnS you on in then go for it. unfortunately, where i live, people look damn good. we are not farmers. we actually have normal clothes to wear and not rednecks jump suits. i actually only saw cows in winterpeg...non really here in the city with civilized people...you wouldn't know what civilization looks like though cos ur permanently looking through ur cows ass!
did ur mommy let you leave your milking chair to come insult me? maybe you should stick to your cows behind and not waiste people's time with your insults. i see you haven't found another use to the internet but to insult people.
you are probably a lonely poor ugly man, sitting behind a cow all day long. you fantacize that all women are cows so you can get turned on!
i fell SOOO sorry right now for you. i feel actually worse for your mother to have created such a pathetic loser like you.
how do you meet women? by insulting them on the net? sorry man, your life in winterpeg sounds so lonely. i honestly feel sorry for you. if you ever make it arount mountbeirut, i will teach you a thing or 2 about civilization, designer clothes and so on...(oh, do you know designer clothes? oh probably not!!! they are only designed for us immigrants who like have class and that can actually afford them...lol)
DO YOU WANT ME TO GO ON BRAIN??? COS I CAN KEEP THE INSULTS COMING TOO YOU LONELY COW LOVER!
Rima, the kill ratio is what's important and it looks like it was at least 20 to 1 in favour of the IDF. Pretty good shooting if you ask me.
Nah - my mummy lives a thousand miles from me but I'm sure yours is still wiping your a__.
Tell me, the Lebanese "pilot" who put down the hijacked jet in a Pennsylvania field on 911 and couldn't carry out his mission to hit what ever building he was going to - is he typical of your lot?????
brian, go back to your cows, they miss you...
oh, looks like brian took my advice and went back to what he does best: milking the cows and picking up after them (oh no, insulting me and rima is what he does best)...poor brian :( his life is so pathetic and sad while we live here in luxurious mountbeirut, he has to milk cows for a living :(it's ok brian, i will send you my 2007 BMW when im finished with it. you will maybe enjoy a bit of luxury in your miserable life.
Brian, if u think we look like cows, then you should know that me and celine who happen to be very good friends met through a modelling agency...ya, we are part time models...Beauties with brains...too bad for you since all you have is your mom and the corner gas station women with one front tooth missing to look at ! lool
Hey, I are not a racist pig. Well maybe one - but surely not the other! Nyuk, Nyuk!
Rima.
I read very well. And if you read my quote again I asked why did they come if not to occupy it? For tourism?
The Arab nations did not recognise the newly formed state of Israel. "In 1947, Lebanon's prime minister, Riad Solh, urged the Arab League to prevent the partition of Palestine, and backed the creation of the Arab Liberation Army. On May 15, 1948, Lebanese military units crossed the Palestine border at Rosh HaNikra to attack the newly proclaimed Jewish State, Israel. The attack failed." This is from the article in wikipedia on Lebanon. Read it. Don't call virtually every source I quote propaganda. And I am not comparing military valor here. Israel had more soldiers. So it did.
But common sense dictates why would anyone declare war on 5 countries at once? Are they insane? Wouldn't it be better to take them one by one? As I said earlier Lebanese would not call themselves aggressors anyway.
You think Israel has an expansionist agenda. But reading some of that history I think when they occupy some territory they think they have a right to you think it is expansionism. You see everything in black and white just the same as those on the other side of this argument.
Anurag,'But common sense dictates why would anyone declare war on 5 countries at once? Are they insane? 'It was a PREVENTIVE war, and they knew their army was much bigger and stronger than that of those 5 countries combined.You keep saying they have the right to occupy those lands...So why are we arguing?This is the heart of the conflict, If israeli leaders themselves, have been quoted, as I have provided in several posts their sourced quotes, that israel IS occupying their lands and that is Israel the agressorand that they don't want to have anything to do with arabs, nor do they wanna live next to them and that they will do anything in thier power to keep expanding and annexing lands that even THEY admit are not theirs,then honestly, why would I try to convince you if you are not even convinced of what their own people say.As I had mentionned earlier, according to ur logic, then indians should occupy canada and the US because THEY hve the historical right to the land and should massacre or drive the inhabitants there out to some other country, because accroding to you, canadians and americans do not have a right to the land.Anurag, I really don't see the point of us arguing when you are starting based on a wrong notion and logic.It's odd that even israelis and jews themselves, speak out and say that we are occupying lands that have been inhabitated for centuries by people (jews+ assyrians+pheonicians,etc) and now not only we want to live there but we wanna kick all of those out and keep only the jews, and they say that it's wrong to do that but u, from India, say otherwise.No further comment.
20000 vs 35000. 35000 is more but not so much that they would want to be attacked on all sides. I am not questioning the numbers and take your word for it but you keep questioning my sources.
Did or did not Riad Solh, urged the Arab League to prevent the partition of Palestine, and backed the creation of the Arab Liberation Army? And the Lebanese were fighting the was across Palestinian borders into what you think are palestinian lands and Israelis think are Israeli lands. It was not on Lebanese soil.
Why is it so hard to accept that the Lebanese too could be attackers at some point of time?
"but u, from India, say otherwise"
We have been dealing with Islamic butchery for over a thousand years now. We have a muslim neighbour that sponsors terrorism on our soil. We can easily empathise with that country surrounded by these people and how it must be like to them.
About your quoting Israelis against the war I quoted your Lebanese opposition leader Walid Jumblatt who said lebanon does not have a valid claim on Sheba farms.
About my logic regarding Red Indians in Canada I said they have a valid claim on the land but not massacring. Are the Israelis massacring you? Apart from the fact you think they are bombing your buildings on purpose.
Hey Rima, Hey Celine, are you really models? Neat!Unfortunately, however, your battle of wits with the most intelligent fellow from Winnipeg has become another case of cow looks but no brains behind the facade. Why don't you two give up while your ahead before you really embarrass yourselves. IDF forever!
Eliahu,shut ur mouth please! Another farmer!
Anurag,You are way out of ur circle of knowledge.Jumblatt is in opposition with hezbollah and has said that just to prove his opposition in the govt. As I mentionned, u cant talk about lebanese politics because you do not sufficient knowldge about it. Even lebanese get confused, thats how complicated it is.After 22 days, Jumblatt, who is NEVER afraid of sayin what he thinks, admitted that, and criticized israel for trying AGAIN to mettle with lebanese affairs, trying to spark another war and instability in order to re-occupy and fulfill Ben Gurion's dream of YARETZ ISRAEL.
Eliahu,I bet hes the most intelligent guy in Winnipeg cos he constitutes the population of winipeg along with his mother! LOOOL
Anurag, are the israelis massacring us u ask?I dunno about you but from the last time I watched my news, I heard there was over 1000 dead and over 2000 injured, 50 % of whom are women and children.And maybe you go search in you wikipedia for the total number of MASSACRES and civilians deaths at the hands of israeli during its 22 years of occupation.Oh, and while ur at it, do some research at how many palestinians, women, children, elderly have been killed since 48 versus how many israelis.The numbers will shock you.
What I mean to ask is are they doing it purposefully? You know like the Taliban did to non muslims in Afghanistan?
The numbers dead are in war. It is sad but that does not mean they deliberately kill people. There is a difference between war and cold blooded killing of civilians as the whole bunch Al Qaida, LeT, JeM etc do.
I do not claim knowledge of Lebanese politics but I quoted him to show differing views are on both sides. Some Israelis think the attacks are not justified. Similarly some Lebanese may think Hezbollah firing rockets from the borders is not justified. Don't say they are all fired in retaliation. Only Israel is aggressing and Hezbollah only retaliating? Not believable. I repeat you see the world in black and white just as the ones on the other side in this argument.
Interesting debate on Hezbolla versus the IDF. I'll put my money on the IDF as they have superior firepower, better training, and much better organization. However, I must say that the two girls in Montberuit, Canada seem to be pretty fiesty and if they're representative of their expat Lebanese countrymen the IDF might get a good workout - for awhile.
I'm currently setting up a mercenary force to work with the IDF (pay will be good) and I'm looking for good men and women with the killer instinct. Look for my upcoming advertisments.
Rima. There is a difference between bombing a land which has army as well as civilians and civilians dying due to that and the deliberate selecting of people and shooting/ beheading them. The Israelis are former and the Jehadis latter.
I am not justifying Israel but they are in a WAR and not doing it to kill non jews. You refuse to see the other side. What is different between you and the person from Toontown?
I logged on to the Scotsman and get nothing but a load of Canadian Braindead tossers - not Rima, Celine. Why were the Jews tossed out of the Middle East in the first place - who needs them.
Name a woman - US/Israeli/Arab - who starts wars
Religion kills. Long live atheism
Rima #199
I am not interested to go in detail the comments on the other page posted by your buddies because I get fed up reading too long a comment. I would only take a glance quickly and also that's because some allegation there are not proven facts and could be fabricated! I'd rather prefer a short and brief one, straight to the main point of the writer intention, in general. My choice of news are those from newspapers and newsletters from various international press.
Your post #199 is also too long. If you write as such, you won't get me to answer your questions needed nor to read all what you'd written except for the first few lines or in the middle. Anyway, you will find Brian "more fun" to exchange comments with than with me. At least, he will read thoroughly and "hear" you but not for me. I have other newsletters to read and I don't want to spend so much time on Scotsman news alone.
I only disagree with you on this. I feel that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation, who also go around in kidnapping people. IF they have not plotted to start a war by launching a cross-border attack on Israel and kidnapping soldiers in the very first place, Lebanon would have been peaceful today and progressing. Hence, Hezbollah is asking for trouble and her action is the real cause of all these mess of devastation and civilian deaths in Lebanon. Hezbollah initiated shooting at Israel and later only to cry foul when Israel shoots back in return, in retaliation after being provoked. Don't expect Israel to tolerate Hezbollah attacks any longer. Whoever fires the first bullet is totally responsible for bloodshed! Hezbollah claimed victory over Israel but sadly, this is done at the expense of civilian casualities and Lebanon suffers.
Oh dear, my comment is too long but that's because of the first two paragraph and Rima wanted me to talk to her!
Patricia
The two Israeli Soldiers were Captured (Not Kidnapped) in Lebanon;
There are links to numerous sources at;http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html
http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/07/12/ap28...
Beirut, July. 12 (BNA) The Lebanese Hezbollah movement announced Wednesday the arrest of two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon.
Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were arrested as they entered the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. Israeli aircraft were active in the air over southern Lebanon, police said, with jets bombing roads leading to the market town of Nabatiyeh, 60 kilometers south of Beirut
http://english.bna.bh/?ID=47348
A map of where theu were caught;http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html
Israel was calling Up Reservists BEFORE THEY WERE CAPTURED..
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&ci...
PRE-MEDITAED MURDER ! ! ! !
Hello Brian
Eh, you know something?? It seems these Rima and Celine are both the same person!!! Just see at their style of writing, expression and way of "talking", they appear to be the work of one person! Whenever Rima comes along here, you will also find Celine suddenly popping out along next to Rima comment! This also happened in other pages.
Besides, Rima said she is 32 years old (#65 page title: Hezbollah defies UN to keep fighters in Lebanon's border areas) but on another page (#185 under title: Guns are silenced-for now), she told Billybob she is 25 years old!!! Then also, "Sonia" is another of her name in the forum.
Gosh! She's in the habit of telling lies and making up stories. I would not be surprised some of her comments are packed with lies, unbacked claims and fabrication. She cannot be trusted anymore!!! Do you know that Rima poster #45 on page "Soldiers turn on Israel" has also been removed??
It is of little wonder that Yoram is not so interested to talk to her. Sooner or later, Patrica will also ignore her!
Peter,FYI, i am not Rima. Rima is actually my best friend. We have the same way of talking for the simple reason that we hang out together all the time. Rima IS 25 years old and let me tell you, she is an extremely intelligent person. If i were you Peter, i wouldn't sympathise too much with Brian cos he has yet to show some kind of intelligence. All he knows what to do is insult people to make himself feel better. Yet, he has not brought one intelligent documented remark.
Rima has been bashed left and right for the simple reason that she gives backed up documented arguments and people like Brian, Yoram and Patricia can't seem to refute any of her arguments. Their only defense is to try to make her loose her credibility and they try to do it by insulting her. They are bullies just like the IDF (their mentor).
As for Yoram, he was discredited by a certain W in another article. Yoram was caught contradicting himself but another of our educated compratriote.
so peter, you can side with whoever you want, but try to be dragged into this situation where you want to lower yourself to such bullies like Brian, Yoram, Particia and etc.
PS: Rima is very emotional when it comes to this subject because she actually endured some of the 22 years occupation and constant bullying of the isarelis. I can garantee you she is very well aware of what went on and what is still going on in lebanon.
Peter, in reference your comment
'Besides, Rima said she is 32 years old (#65 page title: Hezbollah defies UN to keep fighters in Lebanon's border areas) '
you should read the first line of her quote: 'As posted by a lebanese british christian:'
ya, she was quoting someone actually. maybe you should pay more attention before trying to discredit someone :)
peter, i honestly hope you are more intelliegent than brian. don't be a bully, try to listen and HEAR the facts before trying to bash them like brian and his friends do.
Rob #232
Come on, Rob. It depends on which news agencies, channels and newspapers one reads daily and exposes to. Some media use the term "kidnapped" and some others may use "captured". I have come across such discrepancy.
Anyway, it's our prerogative to choose. I doubt Patrica will bother to read and take notice of what you'd preached!
Bernard,
there is a big difference between "kidnapped " and "captured."
You say a person is kidnapped when someone enteres THEIR property and seizes them.
where as:A person is in a missing (captured) status if he has been seized as the result of action of an unfriendly military or paramilitary force in a foreign country.
The distinction Rob is trying to make is that the two soldiers were the one that entered lebanon's borders illegaly and AS A RESULT, they were captured. They were captured on lebanese ground therefore cannot have been kidnapped FROM israel.
i hope i made sense to you.
Celine #234
I happened to see you using my name in your reply to Peter, calling me a bully. It's childish of you to say I cannot refute any of Rima arguments. We discussed very few things and all have been understood. She has her say and I have mine. Both of us are just expressing our views and opinion.
So, stop passing poor judgement and tongue wagging over nothing! It's unnecessary of you to pull me along together with the guys. You are such a bully! Rima could write better comment than you.
Anurag,you keep repeating the same things over and over, which I have explained to you over and over.Are the israelis doing it purposely??? I honeslty think that your not getting all the info in India my friend...Amnesty, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, the UN have had their workers in lebanon testifying that Israelis were DELIBERATLY targetting civilian cars trying to flee with a WHITE FLAG on the car, the UN post, the 1500 civilians dead. They bombed freaking churches!!!!! they killed christians hiding in it!!Anurag, you are angry against muslims, extremists and you are mixing up everything. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T LIVED HERE NOR IN THE WEST BANK OR GAZA UNDER ISRAELI OCCUPATION. I told like a million times before that there are NO BEHEADINGS and that NASSRALLAH WAS PROBABLY ONE THE FEW MUSLIM LEADERS WHO PUBLICLY CONDEMNED 9/11, THE BEHEADINGS IN IRAQ, 7/7, ETC.Any lebanese, christian or muslim, would see that u are mixing up the war on REAL terrorists with a country that has been occupying lands and slaughtering its civilians. I provide you with quotes from israeli leaders that prove to you that, and u still go back to the whole islam extremism thing.Forget the muslims, what about THE CHRISTIANS in lebanon????? Those who have been killed throughout the 22 years of occupation and in this last war, in their own churches??????!!!Ur quote about jumblatt is out of place. Ur saying that some israelis dont agree with israel's attacks but ur wrong about lebanese not being ALL united on the fact that ISRAEL IS A THREAT,A TERRORIST STATE. Hezbollah is a political party, so sure there will be opposition, but thats INTERNAL POLITICS. Jumblatt was saying that we want our army to defend us against the aggressor not only hezbollah, but he never said that hezbollah was firing rockets without a reason.Anyways, I had already posted a UN document showing the number of attacks in the last 6 years from hezboll
Oh ANURAG, Ill have u know that we have MANY MANY hindus and buddhists in lebanon because of the sri lanki, phillipino girls that come to work for families in lebanon...they work for shiias, sunnis, christians and NEVER has one been beheaded or harrassed because of their beleifs.Comparing afghanistan, india, pakistan, even saudi arabia to lebanon shows ur level of ignorance because THERE IS NO COMPARISON!!
Anurag,one last thing, I posted a testimony bu a UN chinese worker who was a peacekeeper and was in southern lebanon for 5 years since 2000. He was a buddhist and he said that the area was controlled by hezbollah militarly but that he had never had such a pleasant experience in his life. He said that he had the freedom of practicing his religion, saying what he thought, and HE ALSO ADDED THAT THE ONLY THING THAT THEY WERE SCARED OF WAS THE ISRAELI PLANES ALWAYS HOVERING AROUND AND DROPPING SONIC BOMBS AS WELL AS THE STTLERS IN IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES. HE SAID THE SHIIAS IN THE SOUTH WERE SO NICE AND WOULD BRING THEM FOOD, INVITE THEM IN TO THEIR HOMES...So I dunno Anurag, U wanna sit in India and talk about pakistan and afghanistan and bin laden when this is completly off the subject and it is not even close to being compared to lebanon.Oh and Anurag, for the monster Bin Laden has become, u can thank the US because as I was watching a documentary yesterday on CNN about him, he said, after declaring war on the US, that he wouldnt have had the power to do that had he not won against the soviets in afghanistan and UHHH thats a KNOWN FACT that the US is the one that financed him in that war.
Celine, thanks for the support:)
It's odd, you people talk about freedom of speach and I keep getting blocked from posting anything.i guess im convincing way too many people and that is not suiting our israeli moderators.
Patricia,i meant to refer to Alison, not you. I had a few exchanges with her. I apologize for the mistake, didn't mean to put you in the wong croud. (it was very early for me...still half asleep :))
anyways, sorry, im not a mean person, didn't mean to hurt your feelings...Have a nice day:)
Anurag,I have been reading your exchanges with Rima and I have to agree with her. You are totally mixing up islam extremism with this conflict.I have been to Lebanon before and have friends that live there and I can tell you that the situation in Lebanon and the Hezbollah can't, in any way, shape or form, be compared to the situation in India, or any of your neighbouring countries. The majority in Lebanon are christians and only 30 % are shia's.
Lebanon is a very liberal country and maybe you haven't heard of this incident, but al-qaida members tried to infiltrate into lebanon and had kidnapped Lebanese christians, as well as muslims and killed several of them back in 1997.The lebanese government along with hezbollah captured those murderers along with the help of the hezbollah group and both made very clear statements on arabic television that Lebanon will NEVER accept extremism, and that it is the country of many sects and religions and so it has been for decades.You should also listen to Nassrallah's speaches, you would be surprised at how moderate he is.He has distributed money to build houses to christians and muslims.
Last, I read on another page your post about the translation of their name into the party of God and you're claiming that's the proof of it's relation with islam.No one is denying that the group is a muslim shia group, but in lebanon there are many groups with religious christian names, and sunni muslim names.I think what Rima was saying is that the war has nothing to do with muslim extremism. It's about Israel occuyping lands in lebanon or else Anurag, there would not be a UN resolution (1701) in which one of the conditions is Israel's withdrawal from the Shebaa farms.
Rima's quote, "Im sure Jesus would be very proud to see that his legacy of turn the other cheek and love one another is being twisted by some ignorant, racist pigs like you."
Rima - not very nice of you to call my friend Peter that. You're a little bit of a wildcat aren't you? Or is that hellcat? Rima and Celon - you bother need to know that the issue of Lebanon is in the big picture we are facing very unimportant. Israel and the Western countries, including Canada, will do what they have to do to survive and prosper and that is going to include giving Iran an awful spanking. Lebanon will just get crushed like a bug in the process. Better that you both continue to do your "modeling" for the guys in the seedy bars along "the main" in mountberuit or even perhaps in their 2007 Beemers.
Hezbolla are not muslim extremists and they are against all muslim extrimists - extremism isn't allowed in true islam and those that follow it are only there to mock Islam. Hezbollah has nothing to do with any terrorist groups such as Al-quaida...it has always went its own way and correctly.
Hezbollah is a defence group protecting Lebanon - and most Lebanese support them. Hezbollah is not only protecting Islam, it is protecting the whole of Lebanon with all its parties and religiouns with a great faith that is needed to be strong.
If America and Israel are calling Hezbollah terrorist, siding them with Hamas in Palestine which was chosing democratically by its own people...it is only so that America can reach what it wants throught greedy Israel. Their lovely excuse - WAR ON TERROR - Don't be surprised if America has made up names of terrorists and secretly caused some acts of terror to reach what it wants with that excuse....TERROR TERROR TERROR - BLAA BLAA BLAA - LOOK FOR ( THE TRUTH ).....
Sylva,
If you know a site with Nasralla's speaches on it, i would be greatfull if you could send it. If not i'm gonna keep on looking and i'll pass it on to all....
Why should Iran get the spanking for going nuclear, while America the only country who launched a nuclear weapon be allowed to keep it without complaint...more so interfere in others who want to obtain it.
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST WHO BELIEVE THEY ARE GODS...
At least all Lebanese have a God____Hezbollah supporters, shiites walk along side christians and dourzies and sunni muslims in peace as one. All they are looking for is the benefit of their country. And if they are benefiting their people well they are doing as Hariri did with the sunnis and Jonblat with the dourzies and Lahoud with the christians, where's the problem with that. We are many parties wanting to live in peace in our country LEBANON ... a country that we are all proud of.
I would be much obliged if those not for us would go into the other pages and read what i have explained about what truly has been going on in Lebanon...then comment all you like.
So, Rima & Celine are good friends! How true is it? No proven facts! IP address is not necessarily a good one to prove as evidence!! The fact is that, both of you are "identical" in ways of expressing and doing things. Only twin sisters have similar characteristic traits. Both of you are copycats! Could be 2 persons in 1!
Brian was right. Why don't you move to Lebanon, to serve your country?? No point staying here because you can't do much to help your own people there.
don't be haters guys...i already pity you, im sure rima does too...oh wait, according to you, im her and she's me...poor you, you must me so confused and lost !!! HAHAHAHAHA, IDIOTS!
LEBANON FOREVER!!!!!!!
Rima and Celanese, whaaaaa? Hahahahahah??Vas is lous??? Is this the way Lebanese talk to each other? Seems rather simple minded to me. What will you do when lebanon gets rolled over in the big struggle to come? You'll have nothing to talk about then. Oh boohoo. You'll have to go back to swinging around the poles at the clubs. Shouldn't be hard with your experience!
Rima why don't you try articulating an issue based on factual information rather than calling people names like RP? HAHAHAHAHA, IDIOTS
Man - all have come off the true subject to play the game of who gets to speak last ....
GET BACK TO USING YOUR BRAINS.
You too Rima & Celine ___ forget the nerves - show the truth...to those that can't take it. hehe
Racist PIG,could you please ask your mother to come and teach me how to swig around the pole at the clubs. apparently when i applied, they told i don't have enough experience, maybe your mother can help!?!
Rima, Julie, Celanese
"Nasralla's speaches"
Forget it, nasralla is actually a goof and he'll be dead within a year from an IDF (or Canadian or American) RPG. His time is close to up. Then we won't have to look at that silly goof's ugly mug with the stupid black rag wrapped around his head. What does he keep in there anyway - his lunch???
Racist pig,you are sooooooooo pathetic. You think that you are civilized and that Lebanon is just another third world country??hahahahaMan, u know Pig, there are many of your fellow compatriotes, true canadians, cos to you we're not, actually go to lebanon and absolutley adore it there and they are literally SPEACHLESS. But then again, those canadians are actually educated, and have been to places like paris, ibiza, italy unlike you who sits in his mother's basement in WINTERPEG listening to skinheads music: u know songs like: I hope your baby is white or VIVE the white supremacy!! or hail Hitler! LOL
Racist pig,Does ur sister swing around poles in winterpeg?Is that what u people in that desert think modelling is?aww, I really pity you, you should really come to montberuit and see what civilization is like.lol
Rima, Celanese, actually my sister is in the IDF - a corporal - and she knows how to handle an Uzi pretty well. Better than you two morons certainly. She was active in the last 3 weeks in Lebanon and tells me she can't wait for further action.
Meanwhile you two dopes are swinging around poles in montberuit trying to string sentences together in broken English that the rest of us can hardly understand. Like I said before (and you never answered me) why don't you go back there and help the Hezbos defend lebanon and then attack Israel again???? Why - I know why - because your both spineless and gutless wimps that's why.
So what does he keep in there anyway - his lunch???
Peter,
How lucky for you that Hezbollah exists...so that you can blame all of Israel's atrosities on Hezbollah.
I'll tell you one thing...i am a muslim, was living in Scotland and England for a time. I was totally against Hezbollah, Iran because your media as all that are living there, made me think that they played the part of extremism and dictatorship, with little rights for women. I came here and found out the truth...And now i support Hezbollah 100% for having save our country from the lies they tell on your side. And i believe if Hezbollah thought that disarming was truly for the benefit of our country - it would - just as it did when they agreed to let the lebanese army go to the boearders. But i believe this will be a lesson to all lebanese...we'll just have to wait and see what else Israel is going to do to us...
Hezbollah has never hurt, murdered or shamed anyone in Lebanon or out of Lebanon. All it has done is defend its country from war against Israel and America. I repeat, it is a shiite group with a great Islamic way fo life. Not dictatirship, wishing to live along with all other religions/parties in Lebanon and it has grown with that idea, so have its supporters. It has nothing to do with Al- Quaida whom it went against year 1997 when Al-Quaida brought its terror into Lebanon. And i'm sorry if you buy the American way of putting all muslims together to make them all look like terrorists. Hey, i wouldn't be surprised if America plays part in Al-Quaida and has made up the name (Ben Laden) just to get in here with the excuse - ALL MUSLIM GROUPS ARE TERRORISTS - the media you are shown and living is a LIE. SHAME ON YOU FOR BELIEVEING HEZBOLLAH IS A TERRORIST GROUP...No use trying to convince your friend from the west either, with his sister fighting against us. Its born within his roots, i just wish his roots could be ripped out as mine were when i came here and saw the real truth. But then he might be wiped out as all those who dare
Yoram,
Hezbolla is not a state within a state....
Hezbollah takes care of it's people as the sinnis take care of their people as the christians take care of theirs and the dourzies take care of theirs...Just because Hezbollah saved us from Israel doesn't mean it has taken over or ment to take over. And everyone should know well that it is the government that asked and allowed Hezbollah to give its opinions in their politics. Why should they win the war for everyone, fight and die and not have the right to take part in everything else.
The christian journalist against Hezbollah is only sooo because he is a COWARD. And he is of the minority that are against Hezbollah. He can't see the truth of what Israel is and wants the easy way out. What he can't see, is that the easy way out for him is the easy way in for Israel.
I don't care what you think, have seen, heard about extremists. Extremism is for AL-QUAIDA and it's likes. And maybe a minority of idiot palistinians who don't follow the laws of HAMAS. Extrimism is not true Islam...And so, Hezbollah has not carried out any extremist actions since it was founded. Don't merge it with the others. Hezbollah is against extremism as we saw in 1997 when it went against Al-Quaida, as we saw when it went against the extremist killings of Americans. To them and all shiites...such extremists don't stand a chance to heaven....So please, stop calling you war, WAR AGAINST TERROR - as AMERICA claims you are. You may call it WAR AGAINST LEBANON - or WAR AGAINST HEZBOLLAH (a non-terrorist group). Mistakes happen everywhere, as the foundation of Israel was a mistake....they came into lands that weren't there's. The arabs gave Israel space, but Israel wants to hold onto everyone and invade more & more. It isn't looking for peace - but greed with lame excuses. Stope looking at only other's mistakes, look to your mistakes, look to Olmert who waged this war and got many of your soldiers killed for nothing...
Celine #237
Stop preaching and keep it to yourself!! You are just wasting your time. Your comment isn't going to change anyone like me. I have got used to reading media from various sources, some reporting 'kidnapped' while others used 'captured'. Whatever term they use is of no concern neither made any difference to me. No big deal!!
Julie #274, 275
You said "Hezbollah is not a state within a state"!!!!!!!!!!What nonsense are you talking about? Which paper did you get that statement from????
If Hezbollah really cares for Lebanon and Lebanese people, she would not have prolong the conflict and continued shooting rockets. She would have chosen to return the 2 kidnapped soldiers but she refused!
This simply showed she prefers Lebanon to suffer progressive large-scale destruction and civilian casualities, as a way to win world sympathy and bleeding hearts like you! If Hezbollah were to have been disbanded and disarmed by UN in 2000, this war would not have occurred.
Come on, Julie. Hezbollah is not defending Lebanon. Hezbollah is only bringing destruction to Lebanon and civilians death!! So, your friend Hezbollah should be blamed for all the problems in Lebanon today.
Racists pig,
i feel sorry for you and your terrorist sister. unfortunately, i have a busy work load today since i don't work at killing people like your sis or playing with myself all day in front of the computer all day long like you. i hope you have a long miserable life, pretty much like it's going on lately. too bad i couldn't get some sense into you, but hey, it's hard when a person doesn't have a brain like. so...I GIVE UP ON YOU :) you are way to dumb to bother. now go on with your day, insulting me and i hope you have a good kick out of it. don't be surprised if i don't answer you though. im just gonna watch you insult me and embarass yourself while doing it. as for your sister, i will go to church on sunday and pray for her soul so she doesn't end up in hell like all the IDF!
i guess my "preaching" was meant for someone with a higher IQ. if you couldn't see the distinction, then hey, what else can i do? btw, i wasn't preaching, i actually took the definitions from google. :)
Peter,i have no reasons to go to lebanon. why would i? my country is here!
btw, could you please tell me WHERE did i ever mention that i was ok with hizbollah??? i guess you are paranoid. FYI, i am ANTI-HIZBOLLAH!!! and i am ANTI-IDF!!!! they are all a bunsh of murderers!!! they will all rot in hell.
so, all you ignorants out there, have a fun blasting me, but remember, the only reason why you are blasting me is because i HIT A NERVE! otherwise you would ignore me :)
now watch me ignore you :)
later...
SORRY PETER,
YOU EXPECT Hezbollah to give up the two Israeli soldiers after all of the losses it went through and without anything to win back.
Sorry, Israel held onto 3 Lebanese men. If your country was at war, and then peace happened and i ask again...YOUR father, brother, son or friend was still captured. Would you be living in peace, would the war be over to you. NOOOOOOOOOO
If Israel had let go of the 3 Lebanese men and Shabaa Lands...Hezbollah would never have captured the 2 soldiers. All it did was fulfill a promise which it made to the families of those men...and it had previously warned Israel that it was planning on doing so.
But Israel held onto the 3 men and Shabaa Land. It is Israel that doesn't want to make peace and always wants a hold of something to do with it's neighbours. If Israel had let them go...THE WAR would NOT have happened. If Israel just exchanged soldiers the war would not have prolonged as such. The war was after all about the soldiers, not the Shabaa Lands.
PS. Israel was already growing, getting ready and planning to come in to Lebanon all along. But fortunately, Hezbollah was there as an excuse for them to come in when they were not fully ready. As i read on an article written by an Israeli on yahoo. I just wish i could find it again to send it to you.
BLAIM ISRAEL.
If Hezbollah is a state within a state...then Lebanon is full of states.
The Christian state in part of Beirut and the mountain.
The Sunni state in Beirut.
The Dourzi state in the mountain.
The shiite state in part of beirut and the south.
Unlucky for Hezbollah and the shiites that it is them who live near the Israeli boarders and put up with the continual occupation and raids of Israel.
Just as all take care of their part...Hezbollah should be fairly allowed to take care of its part.
Bernard and Anurag,you see, this is why you need to understand internal politics in order to understand why a minority (muslims+ christians) oppose hezbollah. Syria had political control of lebanon, now before this whole conflict started, the majority of lebanese people, christians and sunni muslims, who live further away from the south of lebanon where the shiias are and where Israel has not stopped its airspace attacks, were all in favor of disarming hezbollah.WHY?Because, as I had mentionned before, WE ALL recognized the fact that hezbollah did a great resistance job until 2000 and kicked the israelis out of most of the lebanese territories, and now that syria had withdrawn, eventhough many lebanese already knew that israel was behind the assassination of hariri to get syria out, we didnt imagine in a million years that they did that in order to have less resistance when they executed their plan (as well as the US 's plan)to bomb lebanon.We thought that, theres a small piece of land left occupied and lebanese prisoners, and people thought, well, we SHOULD practice our sovreingty and have our govt get them back cos that would be the first step to reinforcing our govt. Those who opposed their disarmement as that time, were shiias, who were asking the govt to keep them armed until those territories are gotten back along with the prisonners and most importantly that THEIR SECURITY(since they are the ones that are directly under israeli agression) would be assured, THEN they would agree to disarm hezbollah.Now among ALL lebanese, no one wanted them disarmed because they are terrorists or because they are firing rockets into israel because THEY ALWAYS DID THAT IN RETALIATION.But nevertheless, those who wanted them disarmed was really for several reasons:1-reducing the political control of syria on lebanon through hezbollah2-practicing our soverignty ALL over our territories3-ELIMINATE the EXCUSE that
cont.for its proxy war on Iran, now some, a very small minority, are angry at hezbollah, not because they think Israel is right about this whole LIE and excuse that they are terrorists, they know Israel is a threat, but they are angry because they think well, if they had disarmed, then israel couldnt have used them as an excuse, and when it would have entered, international pressure would have greater to stop her.Its very complicated to explain.but now, 98% OF LEBANESE, especially after seymour hersh's report, the evidence linking hariri's death to israel, they dont want them disarmed at this very second, before Israel gives up those territories, pays for all its indescriminate destruction, and our borders are really secure from that terrorist state.People realized that Israel, withdrew in 2000 but that they never wanted peace, and that we are in constant insecurity on our borders. Therefore, when it's clear that the US and Israel will butt out of our business and give back what is OURS, then hezbollah should and will be disarmed and Lebanon will prosper.LEBANON FOREVER!!
Julie #278, 279
Yes, Israel held 3 Lebanese prisoners but they have been convicted in court. They are paying for their crime committed! They aren't innocent persons.
Did Hezbollah really ask to swap for only 3 Lebanese prisoners? I thought Hezbollah asked for a few hundred prisoners to exchange for 2 soldiers!
I was amused to read Lebanon is full of states as you said. This is the first time I hear it coming straight from your mouth!
I doubt Hezbollah wants peace with Israel. You should know Hezbollah is being controlled by Iran (& Syria) who has publicly declared the Jewish state be wiped off from the map! Iran is using Hezbollah to strike at Israel and to fulfill her dream of eliminating Israel. They are motivated by hatred and is bent on destruction of Israel. Iran made no secret of her intention. Due to their ambition, Lebanon suffers and in ruins now!
Even your friend Rima is smart enough and does not agree that Hezbollah should take over the whole country.
Celine #281
Oh, you are an Anti-Hezbollah. So, we have something in common. Just a mixed-up, OK. Today 4 posts were removed! Just wondering belong to who??? None from me, luckily. If I can, I would have taken my post #273 out too because I don't want Rima to read it. She also sounds to be an Anti-Hezbollah, after reading her posts from another page.
Where Julie, a great supporter of Hezbollah? Read #273.
Rima, PLEASE ignore #273. I promise you I won't write such thing again to you. Just get carried away....
Rima
Have A Nice Day. I'm not bad.
Without any doubt RIMA.certainly dose not believe in the Gresham's law.by which the logic of event. cause people to hold onto sound ideas and drop unsound ideas. hence her nonsensical rambling comments which is a fine example.
James,Honey, stop rambling already...are you like obssessed with me or something?If your mentally challenged and cannot understand my postings, then just don't read them.They are meant for people who are smart and well-informed about politics....uhh....that means, they are not for you :)
RIMA. one can see from your comments you are flinching from the 'FUNDAMENTAL FACTS' concering the Israel/Lebanon conflict. that you lost what little credibility you had.
James,How many times do I have to tell you?You do not have the required intelligence to debate with me.From what you are saying about me, It shows that u didnt understand anything of what I posted.So please, go bow down to queen elizabeth and leave the debate to intelligent people.
James, read what follows slowly, if you need help give me a shout.
Israel is a Zionist Jewish state Most Jews are ZionistZionism is a national liberation movementAll national liberation movements are viewed as terrorists from the other side.
National liberation wars are conflicts fought by indigenous military groups(IDF) against an imperial state(Arab) to remove that power's influence. They are often founded on guerrilla warfare, which may include acts considered as "terrorism" by the opposing state They could hardly win without substantial outside help from another state(USA)
Lebanon is a sovereign stateSovereignty is the exclusive right to exercise supreme political (e.g. legislative, judicial, and/or executive) authority over a geographic region, group of people, or oneself. (including Hezbollah!)
Rima, Celanese, Anne and Julie - Troops from Montberuit will soon be involved in the struggle to once and for all put an end to Lebanese sanctioned bombing of Israel. I see France has agreed to now send 1700 troops to hunt down and destroy the Hesbos in Lebanon which basically means an end to Lebanon as anybody now knows it. About time. They'll disband the Lebanese army, execute the Hesbos and their sympathizers and put all the anti-Semitic sympathizers on work farms - permanently. How does it feel to see an end to the harassment of Israel just around the corner??? There is a rumour that the US Marines, the Devils Dogs, are going to play a big part and then for the grand finale -- Iran gets whacked - big time, never to both the West again. It's going to be called "Operation Enema" and when it's over all the s*** will be flushed into the sea. Then lovely Rima, you can resume your career swinging and slithering around the poles in loverly Montberuit - sans burka. Finally an end to the Arab problem. Yeah.
Rima. you are certainly not 'DISTINGUISHED IN TALENT'or 'SENSIBILITY' hence your rant and rave.perhaps one day if that is possible you will grow up. and face the real world.
Julie #290
Calling me idiot but actually, you are the real IDIOT! I knew you are staying in Lebanon and a Muslim. If you have been closely following up my comments, you will realise that my post #273 was initially for your other 2 friends but I made a mistake directed it to them. I just wanted you to read the part concerning Hezbollah and nothing else. So, understand this first.
Do you think people like me will believe Iran is just playing game with her declaration "Wipe off Israel"?? It's NOT simply a matter of convenience, politics and propaganda. Many know what Iranian President really meant to say in his heart and his secret intention.
You quoted (last 6 lines): "He says so because he knows there will never be peace as long as Israel exists." Do you know that this simple sentence is enough to pass off his true colour and expose an evidence proving Israel must FIRST be destroyed before/only then a peace can be achieved? In other word, as long as this country Israel does exist, there will be no peace according to Iranian President.
You just cannot believe whatever Sayid Hassan said that Hezbollah is not ruled by Iran and Syria. In fact, Iran dictates and is fully behind in whatever Hezbollah did in Lebanon and not just funded and supplying weapons. Iran is obviously Hezbollah's real master. That's why Israel wanted Lebanese government and UN to take control and disarm Hezbollah, to prevent her/Iran/Syria from causing any more trouble in Lebanon.
Sorry for calling you an idiot...
Say all you like but i don't wish for a coward army and unpowerfull government to face Israel. It was only Hezbollah that saved Lebanon from their occupation and shiite muslims before them who raen't looked at as terrorists. I wish that you would stop siding them with what you believe about Iran. The men are up their fighting for me, their people and our country.
And yes, ever since Israel came it has caused havoc in the middle east. AND MAY THE BEST COUNTRY WIN. MAY THE ONES WHO ARE IN THE RIGHT WIN.
I GIVE UP CONVINCING YOU, AFTER ALL, YOU ARE NOT LIVING IT....
Julie #297
OK, we give up exchanging comments for now. But before I end up, I have something to say for the last time with you.
Lebanon had been peaceful for the last 6 years. If Hezbollah had not initiated launching a cross-border attack on Israel and kidnapping 2 soldiers on July 12, destruction of Lebanon and civilians dying would NEVER have happened at all.
Therefore, I feel that it was Hezbollah who creates chaos and is destroying democracy in Lebanon.
That's all for now.
Hey Peter... and i'll say one thing for the last time...IF IT WAS YOUR BROTHER, FATHER OR SON STILL TAKEN HOSTAGE BY AN ENEMIE OF YOURS...YOU'D DO THE SAME THING.
PLUS, it all happened inside Lebanon, not over Israeli boarders...it was untill Israel started bombarding the air port and beirut, that Hezbolla launched it's rockets over israeli boarders in defence...
If you find that excuse enough to kill civilians...and wipe out Lebanon...then blame Hezbollah...After all Israel has been tresspassing the boarders these passed 6 years & Hezbollah didn't use that as excuse to start a war....
All for now...Hope peace resolves & stays no matter what the beliefs...
