I think BAA have a lot to answer for. Not only have there been breaches at Heathrow and Gatwick but also at Glasgow. Staff really don't seem to get the fact that items that are forbiden mean just that, they are not allowed. The lax attitude in this time of serious security issues could come back to bite us.

Explain to me again why there are hold-ups at all the airports? Are they just pretending to search our bags to make this jumped up scam look good?
Was this woman absolutely normal before she got on the plane? Surely someone must have noticed her during the LONG wait. What about the 'behaviour police' who are trained to look for suspicious behaviour? HOW did she get on the plane with a screwdriver and lighters. My friend was stopped and thoroughly searched for a bottle of perfume.
Something's smelling fishy here!

It's good to have a fuller picture of what happened, as compared to the swirling rumours of yesterday.
It's clear that the woman's behaviour triggered the various responses, and equally clear that she was a very disturbed and distressed person. Much of what she did sees to do with a complex need for attention, and she seems not to have had control over at least some of what she did.
An airplane in flight is a very particular setting, and authorities and people have to do what they reckon they have to do in a time of terror.
But it is sad when such circumstances see us providing less than the immediate help and support that this woman clearly needed.

Matches and lighters have been banned on aircraft for years. All sharp objects such as screwdrivers were banned on board since 9/11. These items are not recently banned in the new precedures as stated here. However, the fact that they have been banned for so long, makes it even more ridiculous that this woman was allowed to get these items on board.
Also why, if such a person gets so disturbed on aircraft and has been known to cause problems before, are they not especially notified or even banned from flying? This shows another case for passenger profiling. If other problem elements were added to the profiling then perhaps other minority groups would not get so uptight about the procedure.

This woman, just sounds the sort of person I end up sitting next to on some flights, but I'm just unlucky.

Occasionally people with mental health problems fly, and sometimes, when medication isn't taken or being used at all, disturbing stuff can occur.

Obviously Mr Blair has his problems under control to a certain degree. However, his delusional character quite often takes over, especially when he has his vision of being a world statesmanlike individual.

Like the poor woman yesterday, perhaps it's time for Mr Blair to adorn a nice cosy straight jacket before he does any more damage!!!

I think this is a mixture of incompetence in screening the woman and an over reaction to her confused state on the aircraft. The Symptoms of Claustrophobia are: breathlessness, excessive sweating, dry mouth, shaking, heart palpitations, inability to speak or think clearly, a fear of dying, becoming mad or losing control, a sensation of detachment from reality or a full blown anxiety attack. She was probably in fear of getting on the aircraft at the airport and would have looked nervous there. Her state should have been noted by at least one of the ground or air crew, but if a state of paranoia exists within the industry the caring side of stewardship is being left on the shelf. An adult woman who squats down in full view of others to urinate is clearly not the full ticket, restrain her by all means, but treat her compassionately when the aircraft lands. Unfortunately we are going to see a lot more cases like this before the situation calms down. The government of the UK and USA should be doing more to install proper screening facilities or at the very least assisting the airports in doing so.

Here we go again! Would someone please explain EXACTLY what the two F-15 fighter jets were supposed to do in the event of a real threat. Take out the screw driver?!? Or shoot down the plane, maybe?

The same question can be asked of the police seen on photos from airports in the last few days - strutting about looking like extras from a Star Wars film. In an airport full of mothers and grannies taking the weans on holiday......just who, exactly, are they supposed to shoot with their oh so obvious firepower?

All of this has NOTHING to do with aircraft security or airport security. Oor John might like dressing up as the Cisco Kid, but I suspect that some of his old friends have more of a taste for the leather coat and the shinny boots.

Ron,
The Americans are very good at using a boson's buoy between aircraft, where the F15 would hook up with the airliner in mid flight. The USAF would send an individual across to sort out any problems. This was demonstrated by Charlton Heston in Airport 1975, as he saves the day with his heroic act.

Ron @ 7

I think it is very likely that, in the event of the aircraft heading for a building - the F15s are supposed to shoot it down. Not nice, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the reason they are there.

Alternatively, having just read AJ's impressive and intuitive post - his scenario is more realistic and likely. However, I think Kevin Costner would probably cast himself in the 'All American Hero' role and direct the whole thing himself, today, AJ.

Oh, right! Thanks for that AJ (Post 8). And Clint Eastwood is patrolling the airports complete with poncho, half chewed cigar and an insutled mule is he?

Anna,
You're out of touch, Kevin Costner is unemployable due to his 'misunderstanding' with a masseuse at a hotel in St Andrews.

I think Will Smith would be ideal, as he could glide across using his massive ears for uplift.

Anna, did you watch Andy Murray last night, he got out of jail, but he was magnificent.

What gets me a bit about this story is that the woman is now reported as having a screwdriver - which seems an unusual thing for someone to have in their handbag. What was she planning a quick bit of DIY on the plane - maybe she fancied having a few shelves put up next to her seat.

This has the hallmarks of one of our sleazier national tabloids about it. Although, even for one of their people - I think the urinating on the floor was a bit extreme and revolting - its usually the top half that they reveal. Mind you, lets face it our 'red tops' have been known to pull a few stunts like this in the past in order to:

a. Sell their newspaper to the gullible public.
b. Show the holes in the government's security plans.
c. Sell their newspaper to the gullible public.

AJ Yes - I think Will Smith would be great, although, with Tom Cruise being so tiny he could probably just walk along the bosun's buoy and not be noticed until he boarded the airliner, killed all the baddies and saved the universe for humanity.

(Agreed - Andy Murray is playing brilliantly at the moment - long may it continue)

Anna,
You might be right about the tabloid stunt, but the urinating probably is inkeeping with the lowlife that they employ. However, I do think this was a mentally ill person going off on one, nothing sinister. Of course I'll be proved wrong no doubt.

Working with the RAF you obviously know the protocol regarding QRA. Do you think the F3 navs could use the 'bosun's buoy' method of interception?

Reminds me from the above the small joke if I may.
In the dock was the husband who wanted to divorce the wife. The ground, “Your honour whenever I come she is never at home, she never looks after the kids. She dresses terribly”. The judge “YOU ARE RIGHT” Comes wife, “Your honour, my this husband always come drunk and late, does not give money fro the upkeep and smokes too much”. Judge, ““YOU ARE RIGHT” buts in the court clerk sir both them cannot be right. Judge, ““YOU ARE RIGHT ALSO”.
The woman, from Vermont, urinated on the cabin floor….. The flight, with 182 passengers and 12 crew members, landed in Boston with the escort of two F-15 fighter jets after the pilot declared an emergency on board.
Federal officials quickly dismissed any terror ties shortly after the flight landed, but the discovery that banned items had slipped through security at Heathrow will cause huge embarrassment at BAA.
About 35 minutes later, when she tried to go to the toilet, the flight attendants directed her to a different lavatory. Instead, she pulled down her pants and urinated on the floor, Mr Choldin wrote in the affidavit, which was based on his interviews and those of other federal officials.
The story should be in TIN TIN or Astrix, the French cartoons

Utterly pathetic over-reaction all round. The USAF fighter jets are routinely scrambled as escorts for the sole purpose of shooting down the passenger plane should there be any hint of risk to their precious US cities.
From the symptoms and behaviour of this unfortunate passenger it should have been fairly obvious she was ill and cabin staff must have been aware of this; calling for ambulance at point of landing is normal procedure when there is illness on board (but only if one has a respectable malady such as heart attack). But no, illness, questioning, and other non-conforming behaviour now equals 'terrorism'.
As another poster has pointed out, the paranoia-inducing 'security' measures are likely to precipitate even more incidents such as this.

Hopefully this woman will get the appropriate professional or medical help she clearly needs.

It may be also a good idea to ban her from airplanes for life given the fact that unlike being on the ground, there is quite obviously literally nowhere to escape to should something like that or worse should happen.

Needless to say, the airport security staff needs to be thoroughly retrained in the latest aviation laws and procedures regarding preventing prohibited items from entering planes and those security staff members found not rigidly enforcing these laws should be promptly replaced.

Hopefully, I have not duplicated anything anyone has said, but please forgive me if I had.

Diana at Number 15, I guess when your country experiences a 9/11 you will understand the reactions. It reminds me of a person I "helped" who used to blame battered women for their problems and how most battered women (her words) were wimps. She didn't see how severe trauma can change someone. That is, until she became one herself. I pray Canada and the rest of the world never experience what the US has.

Just try to get into the other guys shoes before we start pointing holy fingers.

Well, I for one think that this is proof positive that screwdrivers should be banned along with the swords except for religious and cultural purposes.

re #18
Al Jazeera reports the 'mad woman' had terrible athletes foot and the urinating was an attempt to use a well known cure technique.

It's always amazing how people get 2+2=5' or screw driver+athletes foot=mad muslim terrorist.

Dr fruitloops - I suppose the japanese should ban all american airliners given what the usa did to nagasaki and hiroshima? I do sympathise with the the american people but what happened in 2001 although shocking and condemnable is not so uniquely different that the usa can unleash wars, rhetoric and self righteousness on the world at large. Following your logic the traumatised of palestine and iraq and latterly lebanon could not be blamedfor their over reaction??It's time you tried someone else's shoes out too.

18 - and just what "religious and cultural purposes" do you have in mind?? Isn't this the ROOT (or should that be route) of the whole problem ie RELIGION and CULTURE??

I agree with Diana in post #15. AND I am a born and raised American citizen. I'm also trained to deal with post-traumatic stress.

The knee-jerk reactions we are seeing described throughout the media are not limited to the United States (though we certainly have our share of them and more!), but seem a world-wide phenomenon. Extremism and fanaticism is not limited to religion and rockers, but extends into political and enforcement arenas as well.

Sadly, I rather expect it will get far worse before it gets better, particularly since over-reaction tends to breed more such actions from the increasingly hostile and agitated fringe that are now becoming frighteningly mainstream.

Interestingly, PTSD tends to include paranoic behaviors, over-sensitivity and excessive response. When an entire world seems locked in the grip of such over-sensitivity and over-reaction, it tends to snowball.

We fly back and forth between our bases in the two countries all the time and we are constantly amazed at how the left hand never knows what the right hand is doing. On Monday we flew from Paris with Air Canada to Toronto. We were told in Paris that there was no problem with taking liquids onto a plane bound for Canada. So we did. Water, hand cream, hand sanitiser and a medical cream.
In Toronto they nearly had a hairy canary. The security screener was behaving like a child who had found the thimble when she discovered the water bottle.
The really crazy things were:-
1 The security people at Pearson claimed that they had nothing to do with Air Canada's security measures. How Come? Should they not all be singing from the same hymn sheet?
2 We were not allowed on the fight from Toronto to Vancouver with duty free which we BOUGHT ON THE FLIGHT FROM PARIS !

OF course sudden events mean that the powers that be need time to get their act together but I am amazed that they did not see this coming. We have been saying for about 15 years that duty free should be sold at the arrival point not the departure point nor on the flight, unless you can not collect it until you leave the plane.

It seemes to me that the incident of the screwdriver is two incidents really. One is the woman has mental health problems and two, the people who are supposed to provide security are over streached and under prepared.
They are also hamstrung by trying to present a face of knowing that they are doing.

PS Diana (15) is right. The whole point of the fighters is to shoot down the plane. Comforting eh?

Well we all know that the govt and the tabloids are just taking the (expletive deleted) don't we?

This incident aside...this is not a war on terror, it is in fact World War III. A global issue that threatens everyone.

Although no politician or govt body will make that kind of statement at this time, I think we need to wake up and see the big picture.

These are perilous times, and collectively we face threats on a scale that we have never seen before. The systems, and in fact the people, that are in place to protect us, are not perfect.

Th only thing that will bring about improvements in frontline security is determined political will, and the voters demanding their representatives to 'really' act.

Politics unfortunately undercut or pay lip service to the systems, and actual people, doing the best they can to protect your butt while in the air.

Yes--the point of the fighters is to shoot down the jet, in the event that terrorists on board do something. Though several of you have mentioned this, no one has noted the absence of such fighter jets on 9/11, which is one of the facts that fuels conspiracy theorists--why didn't the air force scramble on that day, as it had countless times for much lesser infractions, such as one aircraft being off-course, let alone 4. While it's claimed that the USAF was doing exercises that day which kept them away, this seems implausible.

And yes, clearly this woman is bonkers. If you listen to flight attendants' and pilots' podcasts, or read essays published by flight crew, you'll find this kind of stuff -- clearly unbalanced people pretending to or hinting they might have bombs-- happens more often than you'd think. The fact that she hinted at al qaeda is what made it different.

It was obvious this woman would get past security.

She was not dark skinned, did not have a big beard or shaved head, and was not wearing a T-shirt stating "Holocaust, what holocaust?"

A chain is as strong as its weakest link, so is it really worthwhile spending so much money on all the biometric IDs, when a long lunch in the bar by airport security can spoil it all?

Yes, the fighters are there to shoot down the plane in case it is taken over, in case this woman's behavior was an act and she was a decoy to draw attention away while the real terrorists took the plane. But once she's restrained, what's the point? She's not much of a decoy then, and all she's done is put the crew on their guard, which would be the last thing you would want to do if you were trying to take over the plane.

The reason they scramble the fighters is because they were asleep at the switch on 9/11, so now they want to show how alert they are by scrambling them at a moment's notice, for anything.

It's clear that this unfortunate woman is suffering from a mental illness. I disagree with some who say she would certainly have shown signs on the ground before boarding. That's highly likely, but not certain, and I think the circumstances on the ground before the flight need to be investigated.

It's just too bad it was a screwdriver. What they really needed was a spanner to deal with the loose nuts on the plane. (Sorry! I couldn't resist!)

Dr. Fruitloops (cute name).
Myself and 'my country' did experience a sort of 9/11, it was called World War 2 (a real war); you may have heard of it. Don't need to tell me, an old Londoner, what it is like. Then, I suppose I should also mention the IRA's little bundles of fun detonating everywhere ......
Sadly, if the US suffers one not entirely unexpected strike, great swathes of the world must suffer too, thus creating a new generation of angry and possibly vengeful persons.
I maintain my view re security overreaction and am appalled that people so easily give up their rights and privacy as legitimate ticketholders. Nobody has any spine these days; you're more likely to get killed in a car accident going to the airport than from some unsubstantiated 'terrorist' plot. To quote a much overused phrase, 'the terrorists have won'. Well, they certainly have!! No need for another 9/11 Dr. Fruitloops, the job is being done for them!!

sed quis custodiet has a point. She isn't the ordinarily profiled type, especially if she wasn't acting bizarrely in the terminal before boarding.

Have just seen "Battle of Algiers" -- that low-down sneaky trick of looking and dressing like a western woman got them then, and it's still getting them now. (Tongue in cheek, if you can't tell.)

Ok then,
all flights with apparently mentally ill people who just happened to have returned from Pakistan and are mumbling about Al-Qaeda can now be diverted to either Canada (Diana #15) or Arizona (Peri #24)

Thank You Both !

Hey guys, I was reading this blog and thought I may be able to clear up the question surounding the F-15 escort. It is pretty simple, I was a Crew Chief on F-15 and it is very common for these aircraft to be involved in real time and practice sorties. Sorties are loged with the pentegon showing that we are infact practicing and flying these multi million dollar aircraft and keeping up training. It is most likley these aircraft were live with real ammo but, unlikley they would have shot it down. The pilots will also fly around the aircraft looking for abnormalties like breaches through a panel or simply are there to support the pilots flying the airliner. So I would guess this was a practice run, looking at responce time of the F-15 ect. If they were over the ocean and lost all contact with the pilots in the cockpit it would be brought down befor reaching land. By the way these guys will fly close enough to actually see in and the pilots most likley waved and said the cockpit is secured.
I appreciate a set of eyes on the out side of the aircraft, it can't hurt and no one is going to slide down a cord and enter the aircraft, only in Holly Wood. Simply we need more security befor the plane takes off and the practice of not screening the cargo is down right stupid. An F-15 would not fly if I was missing a screw driver from my tool box so why don't we demand these airlines to do more, cost? I would pay $100 more if I new they were perfroming military style inspections. I love you all Muslium or not!

All a con for the US/UK to plunge deeper into the middle east. Syria and Iran will be next, and the truth in both 7/7 and 9/11 attacks are being hidden. Our governments tell us we face an endless war, but who is behind it?

Watch TerrorStorm, going over past governments using Terrorism as a pretext to go to war, and our current governments motives and gains for carrying out the 7/7 and 9/11 attacks. Here's the link;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216

There is also an official government page that admits the CIA carried out terror attacks in Iran in the 1950s to overthrow democratically elected Mossadeq. Here is the document;

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:VYo3RVVa8r0J:https://w...

Britain is becoming a Police State, we're losing our Liberties while the media feeds us fears of terrorism and doesn't mention our governments hidden agendas, their motives, what they are gaining, our dying Liberties.

Watch the film, research the articles, documents, look through what the news tells you, make others aware, Britain can still be saved from Neo Fascism!

"I appreciate a set of eyes on the out side of the aircraft, it can't hurt and no one is going to slide down a cord and enter the aircraft, only in Holly Wood. "

Thanks for that, Eric,

AJ - I hope you've seen this post - it looks as if we were wrong about the Bosun's buoy thingy - it seems it can't be done in real life. Isn't that just like the thing - you see something in a film and it turns out to have been a complete work of fiction. I don't know what the world is coming to. Do you AJ?

AJ,
Hang on a minute, though, what about that time Kurt Russell and Steven Segal flew underneath a Jumbo Jet in a Stealth Fighter climbed out of the roof and up a tube and killed all the baddies and saved the universe. Is that possible do you think?

Seeing as we can't have the Bosun Buoy one - we'll get them to do one that instead..............

we'll get them to do one that instead..............

or even that one instead.............

Anna where is Superman in all this, he can grab the aircraft and throw into space. End of story!

Or maybe McGuiver, he can grab a peice of gum turn it into an aircraft, load every one on, except for the lady peeing on the floor because that would degrade the gum and save the day!

I loved the Segal movie that was fun to watch!

Excellent idea, Eric...........

I forgot about Superman - and he's so in at the moment, as well. Well, he's on a the cinema, near me, at present anyway!!

I was a bit worried from the bit I quoted in your post that you had taken us seriously..... now I can see you have not.

Your post about the F15s was very interesting though. The passenger trooper that flies into the Falkland Islands is regularly escorted in by Tornado jets, when it enters FI airspace............

"i deal with post traumatic stress disorder..." Would all the profesionals please just "F**k off!"
The woman is a nutter and deserves to be treated like one. Once again we see innoccent people disadvanteged by these nutcases and then all the 'profesionals' join in to 'save' her and condemn anyone who has a commonsense approach to the actions taken. Keep the nutcases out of the skys please and leave the travel to normal people.

What surprised me is that the Captain actually came out of the flight deck and talked to this woman. At the first sign of any emergancy pilots are supposed to secure the flight deck.

A poor, mad, unhappy woman urinates on the floor of a plane and F-15 fighter planes are scrambled.
A group of British muslim "terrorists" plan someday, sometime, to mix unholy fizzy-drink cocktails on board "waves of planes" to make 911 look like tiddly-winks ... (Never mind that neither anything remotely resembling a bomb or a terrorist is anywhere NEAR the airport this particular day, they could have been hiding behind privet bushes, of course.) Result? Women forced to wander around an airport with their spare tampon in clear plastic bags for the entire world to see!
Likewise mothers of howling babies are forced to drink their own babies' milk to see if they will explode there and then in front of security officers!
I am told over loudspeakers at every single Underground Station in London to watch and report "suspicious" looking passengers. I watched 68 on one afternoon but gave up counting!
I thought I was going to get avian flu before summer as the new Black Death pandemic was set to devastate the world.
Now, could it be that I am making all this up and exaggerating my story?
... Unfortunately no!
Now I WILL exaggerate my story; I admit it ...
Is all this utterly sick pantomime madness to prepare us for ever worsening conditions to be wilfully imposed upon us? ...
Preparing all us dummies ultimately for World War 111?
... If this, in fact is not the case, there is only one other slightly less serious outcome ... With the mixture of masochism and grotesque indifference, we are inviting every single nightmare to ourselves, simply by not asking the simplest of questions and by our acceptance of any old thing we are told!

I was apalled the slack security at Heathrow when I flew Air Canada from there in 2004. As we started to descend to Toronto a man of Middle Eastern appearnace across the aisle form me took out a multi tool and proceeded to file his nails. This had obviously passed though Airport Security.
Mind you Air Canada was justr as slack, I watched a fligt attendant walk by as he used then tool. On leaving the plane I mentioned th eevent to an attendant who demanded to know why I had not informed the earlier.
I responded I was strapped in for landing and frankly I was not prepared to risk being attacked if he'd been a nutter. Looks lik ehe was harmless but...

Dear forum,

Whatever happened to individual freedoms being protected in the so-called free world? I think it both ridiculous and insane that people would have to be searched and finger printed like criminals as is being proposed recently, I am referring to the new rules about finger printing. People are so afraid and overreacting to the smallest incidents. In America we have the Bill of Rights and the 4th amendment which forbids unreasonable searches and seizers and searches without a properly certified warrant. I call having my personal belongings and my person searched without a warrant or even any evidence that I have committed a crime pretty unreasonable don't you? I think that we are allowing our fear to control us instead of thinking logically and using common sense. Fear has the affect of to totally and completely destroying good judgment.

Secondly and lastly, the above article greatly illustrates my point, the older woman mentioned who was merely suffering from mental problems was automatically thought by the pilot and the stewardess to be al queda, that is ridiculous. Folks, here is the real truth, our governments have been using these phony terror busts and alerts to keep us in a state of panic and fear in order to get us to give up our individual freedoms. You can protect individual freedom and still fight terrorism folks, despite what the controlled press in both countries is trying to feed us. I say stop the Gestapo tactics at the air ports and on our streets and let’s get back to freedom. I know some people will read this and say what about September 11th? What about the London train bombings?, well go to www.infowars.com and you will see the truth that both of these incidents were government orchestrated in both countries. Folks, it’s called problem, reaction, solution. They create a problem, like terrorism for instance, the reaction will be the fear I talked about earlier and then we

I'm afraid Karl, no 35 is right. For a while I've thought that America is rapidly losing it's much loved freedoms, in fact the 'free' world is becoming more and more police state and ironically,we have invaded these countries to bring them freedom. The east is becoming the west and vice versa.

On another note, I'm a white, blond, Scotswoman of a certain age and my hand luggage was searched leaving Birmingham for Florence and a pair of nail scissors confiscated, wee curved blades about half an inch long, yet I was allowed to keep a long metal nail file. Maybe I should've acted nuts and I'd still have my nail scissors?

Regarding the two words that got her kicked off the UAE flight, I'm thinking they might be "peace activist."
This woman clearly had an agenda other than blowing up a plane, but I'm guessing she will never get her day in court. No one wants the word get out that our Emperor has no clothes.

I still don't see how they think a tube of lipstick is dangerous to take on a plane!

Patrick 45- It's ironic how you seem to be against the current goverment. Who do you think voted them in?

Conservative right wing chistians did!! Thank your own kind for this despicable administration.

Re: Karl, #35, "Britain is becoming a Police State...." So is the US. Sadly this is the nature of government, aided and abetted by populations gleefully ignorant of history. Here in the US our Constitution was brilliantly constructed to prevent such a thing. I am amazed that it worked so well for so long because before its ink was dry many of our Statesmen were searching for ways to circumvent it. Their task has grown easier with every generation since, and has really snowballed since our "Great Depression" and WWII. FDR used various Socialist patches to 'fix' our Nation and many US citizens still think he was the best President we ever had... as we say down here in the Southland, "Best thing since sliced bread!"

Actually that fits pretty well when you think about it: a loaf of pre-sliced bread is of (more or less) uniform slices. Somebody decided (on your behalf and without consulting you, but what the heck?) that your bread should be sliced 'this' thick so they sliced it for you. This relieves you of the task of slicing it yourself! Cool, right?

Now the downside:

1) Your loaf will more quickly become stale and molded once it's cut. (Solution: eat more bread. If you're a bit slow with this, make a meat loaf before it molds. Or feed it to the birds, I don't care.)

2) You are deprived of your choice of slice thickness in favor of a "One Size Fits All" slice. (Solution: Aw, don't worry about it! It's perfect for ham 'n cheese samitches and it fits in my toaster!)

3) Did I mention, a sliced loaf of bread requires at least one more step in producing that loaf you buy? Who do you suppose is paying for this extra step?

Personally I can't decide if he was evil or just stupid but it doesn't really matter; the result is the same either way: FDR warped the moral fitness of this country.

I have my own personal copy of "Loose Change E2" by director Dylan Avery ... sent over from New York. It is still downloadable from Google Video as one of their Top 100 videos.
I took my DVD over to an "intelligent" Italian neighbour of mine to see. There was hardly a murmur as she watched and then she went off in the middle to feed her dogs.
... The content and the implication is just TOO nightmarish for the vast majority of folk to take in.
... Yet while they let it all slide we are gradually letting our world slip to exactly the same conditions that prevailed while Herr Adolf Hitler came to power.

Dear Maya #49,

I did not personally vote for Bush but it is very shameful how American Christians allowed themselves to be decieved as much as they have, which is alot. I attribute this to the fact the church in America has been perverted and corrupted and have turned their backs on true Christianity. Anybody who is a real Christian could not possibly vote for a guy like Bush who is a member in occult secret societies, goes to the Bohemian Grove where they engage in mock human sacrifices, and that supports gay civil unions and that has shown no character whatsoever. I have more info on this at: www.theresistanceforchrist.com

FAO 52. Patrick,

Is that your own site, as I noticed you share the same spelling mistakes?

Hi Patrick #45 What is your stand that most of the Founding Fathers were Masons. Also, in some of my readings, the early Puritans seemed less 'pure' and more legalistic, narrow-minded and bigoted, esp. towards the Quakers. (I'm Not picking a fight with you)

Hi Sed #53 cute!

Hi Alan, #51 Is this video reliable, or just inflammatory seeking to create more fear?

Well no one seems to mention the fact that if we stopped listening to all the hype from the media... they sensationalize one *disaster* after another, things like hurricanes that have been going on for years, they are nothing new.. either are wars and fighting.. (look back in history), and stopped watching CNN or whatever news program of choice, reading all their crap in newpapers etc.... then they wouldn't have an audiance and they wouldnt make millions and create all these problems.... I personally blame most of it on MEDIA! We need to switch off the News channels and go for a walk instead!!! We are just encouraging them

Hi Melanie, # 55 posting ... You have to see that well-made, ice-cold documentary "Loose Change E2" from beginning to end and then judge for yourself. You will not find hysterical conclusions anywhere in the film; just hard facts. But be warned; the implications are utterly nightmarish and underscores ... as we saw in "civilised" Nazi Germany ... just what the human species is still capable of doing.

I find this type of story and others regarding breaches of airport security related to Gatwick Airport in London to be laughable!! Last November 2005, I was travelling with my 13yr old daughter from Philadelphia USA to Dublin, Ireland with a supposed layover of nearly 3 hours at Gatwick Airport London. The plane from Philadelphia to Gatwick left the USA at nearly 9pm on Tuesday night. This was both mine and my young daughter's first trip abroad and we had just obtained our first passports ever, in the couple of weeks leading up to our trip. As we were both very excited to be going abroad, neither of us had slept the night before we were to leave and we had arrived at Philadelphia airport over 4 hours ahead of our departure time, had gone through rigorous security checks including having to remove our shoes and stand and walk barefoot for a while as they checked every article we wore and carried with us. The 2 of us slept almost the entire flight. Upon arriving at Gatwick we still had a couple of hours til our flight was to leave for Dublin and as we approached Gatwick Immigration to have our passports checked there were tremendous lines to wait in. Finally we got to the front. Me a 38yr old divorced, caucasian American woman with my 13yr old caucasian American daughter in tow. We'd just disembarked one flight, hadn't left the arrivals area, had all the proper ID, passports and secondary American, Federal picture ID's, round trip tickets which showed our return trip to be 11 days later and even with everything in compliance, we were detained and scrutinized. The woman at immigration wanted to know where I worked, how I bought our tickets, where we were going to stay in Dublin, what sites we were to see in Dublin, how I paid my bills in the USA, how much money I had on me, how I intended to pay for our meals and stay in Dublin, etc. After patiently and politely answering all questions she tossed out at me, I was told to take my daughter and have a seat as she to

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...to further scrutinize us and that she had also spoken with the local Gardai station in the area of the Dublin address were I had told her we would be staying and that if the Dublin immigration "allowed us into their country" we were to head straight away to the Gardai station and report to them that we were there, that they too had further questions for us! She then wrote upon both my passport and my 13yr old daughter's passport that we were "in transit and allowed to pass thru London, not allowed to apply for or receive any benefits or jobs." By the time she had done all of this scrutiny to myself and my daughter and returned to me our tickets and passports and ID, immigration area had filled up again and our plane for Dublin was supposed to have left 10 minutes earlier! This woman had deemed the 2 of us such a threat to London or Dublin or wherever she thought we were a threat to, that she had detained us for nearly 3 whole hours! Upon having all our paperwork back I pointed out to her that she had detained us so long that our connecting flight had left without us. She phoned the departure gate and was told the plane was waiting on us and pointed out the direction of the gate. I asked her if perhaps we could have one of those electric airport cars carry us to our gate since it was a very long walk and the plane was already late because of our detention, she said "absolutely not, you must reserve one of the cars ahead of your trip". So my daughter and I walked as briskly as we could to our gate where fortunately, the airline had been kind enough to wait for us! As we entered the plane, the door was closed right behind me and the plane was approximately 30 minutes late because of the two of us! When we arrived in Dublin and reached their immigration the man took our passports and asked our purpose of entering Ireland, I told him the same as I'd said to the woman in Gatwick, vacation. This man smile

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It would seem that if Gatwick airport wanted to ensure passengers security they could do so because it's my experience that they have at least one pit bull dog working for them in their immigration area! But they should be able to ensure security without insult and injury to people who wish to visit their country! We complied every single step of the way with our travel, with airport regulations! We did nothing un-toward, NOTHING! So when I read of security breaches such as this coming out of Gatwick airport I both laugh and am outraged!

One side note, we hold nothing at all against the British people!! We met a few in Ireland and in Germany and we have some British friends online! I am simply pointing out that Gatwick needs to scrutinize some of their employees and in doing so could improve their relations with visitors and their security at the same time!

Also, sorry for the length of this post