Sounds to me like 1745 again after the Battle of Cullouden. what next, relocation?

First they took your guns, now they want to take your swords, and knifes, if something was to happen, and the people needed to take a stand to defend themselves. All you will have will be stones to fight with......

Ban it culture again. Weapons do not kill, people do. I assume the criminal element will abide by this and dispose of all swords immediately, just like they did with hand-guns?

I agree with richard. i'm a law student but anyone can see that the only people who will abide by these newlaws are the law abiding citizens that wouldn't have used the swords for crime in the first place.

scotland need to go back to being fully controlled by england, these msp seem to come up with the daftest ideas. where do the political parties find these people.hoe are scots going to cut the meat at home, next they will want to ban all cutlery did you know that you could poke someones eye out with a teaspoon

They think their 10 year civil disarmament programme will prevent the impending violent revolution. The arson attack in Belfast on Polish workers proves otherwise. The EU has destroyed UK border controls. Mass immigration of cheap EU labour means millions of lost jobs and hopes, then fear, despair, anger and murderous rage. Scotland awake! The EU will ruin you!

Once again the majority of law abiding citizens are to be punished for the actions of the minority criminal element in Scotland.
The more I see what is happening in Scotland the less I see myself coming home once I my time in the services is completed.

oh come on someone just needs to scream..................FREEDOM LOL.

Hopefully the election next year will throw most of these bampots out on their ears. Let's try to get a few people of intelligence who can reason a problem through, not a bunch of no-brains who are only capable of banning something outright!

The kind of nutter that would buy a sword is the same kind of nutter that would use a kitchen knife/chef's cleaver/any sharp weapon to attack someone. The problem is with a culture that let's violent criminals exist and thrive, not crappy shops off the royal mile selling "Samurai Swords" made in Taiwan. I doubt this will make any difference to the stabbings casualty list at any A&E on a Saturday night.
And why are more & more weird postings coming in fae' the USA?

What a load of mince. Carrying a sword without legitimate reason is already a crime. Banning them is pointless and marginal. And why, once again, is "religion" privileged? Bushido is a religion and has a Samurai sword fetish. So some wee keely fae EasterChapel will be claiming ancestor worship as his "new faith but..." in support of his wielding an Hattori Hanzo in George Square.

We need a separation of state and religion to stop ridiculous exemptions, even to needless laws, like this one.

Then we could disestablish faith schools and be a step closer to modernity.

McConnell & chums have been spineless in tackling the sectarianism fostered by state sponsored schools run by a religion with dubious predilections.

As other faiths - and we know of which I speak - demand public cash for their own doctrine to be instilled, do we really think Jack will grow the vertebrae required for the task of saying no?

I agree with post no 3 - Richard. Since handguns became prohibited, gun crime has more than doubled - because the change in law targeted law abiding people, not criminals. This might make life very difficult for a collector trying to acquire an antique claymore, but will have no effect on the street at all.

Let the punishment fit the crime.

Individuals who are found carrying Swords, guns etc, without a good reason, should have the whole weight of the law dropped on their head, not just a smack on the wrist, but charge them with the intent to commit murder.

Yes some bleeding heart individuals will say its against their human rights, but isn't it against everyone elses human rights to be protected from these individuals?

We are to soft on criminals in general and its about time the voice and will of the law abiding public was heard and felt!

The second paragraph should have read

Yes some bleeding heart individuals will say its against their human rights, but isn't it everyone elses human rights to be protected from these individuals?

Will the anti-smoking inspectors now have to double up as anti-sword inspectors or will we have to employ more civil servants.

Are people forgetting that legitimate uses will be exempt from the ban or did you just not read the article properly?

That aside I don't see what good it will do. It's not the fact that weapons are available that causes murders, a quick comparison between the U.S.A. and Canada will prove that (Canada has more firearms per head of population but a fraction of the gun crime), it's the will to do harm, and I don’t think that is (or even should be) solvable.

Shall we ban craft knives next? kitchen knives? D.I.Y.?

I think if you're daft enough to attack someone with a sword then this law won't stop you finding another similarly brutal weapon to attack someone with. Surely the issue that should be addressed is "why" are people attacking others with these weapons rather than "what" weapons are being used in the attack.

I agree that banning sword sales is yet an other knee jerk reaction. The majority of blades used in assaults (face slashings) tend not not to be large knives or swords but craft knives. Are we going to ban them as well?
The only way that knife crime will reduce is to instill a sense of morallity and disipline from an early age and back it up with the fear of severe punishment if caught doing wrong.
The average two stripe burburry cap wearer usually knows the court system well and realises that their punishment will usually amount to no more than a proverbial slap on the wrist.

if these people ever get a brain they could become quite dangerous

Glancing through the previous comments, it seems clear that most realize, as I do, that politicians couldn't think their way out of a paper bag ... if it had to be done honestly.

If you really want to hit back at the MSPs, then don't give any of them your vote next May. They are only interested in retaining their £52,000 salary and we are the mugs who pay for that.

The ban on swords is yet another cosmetic measure to avoid tackling the real cause of most vilent crime in Scotland :- excessive alcohol consumption. Until this is tackled there can be no reduction in the level of violent attacks. As several correspondents have said if swords and knives can't be used than it will other weapons. A few months ago the citizens of sao Paulo in Brazil voted against a ban on guns because they knew it would only apply to the law abiding. As for the exemptions on religious and cultural grounds I suspect that will not apply to indigenous culture and religion.

When a Scot can no longer buy a claymore, it's no longer Scotland and the politicians have won. Come to America where a Scot can be a Scot.

That's complete rubbish. Societies and cultures evolve and ours has evolved to the point where a claymore is aesthetic at best and a liability at worst. If a Scotland that has moved beyond subsistence economy, tribal bloodshed, and defining it’s identity by difference to England is no longer Scotland, give me Great Britain any day of the week.

When a Scot can no longer buy a claymore, it's no longer Scotland and the politicians have won. Come to America where a Scot can pretend to be a Scot and be shot for asking directions.

I've fixed that for you.

Nearly all these comments skip the fact that legitimate cultural uses is an exception. A blunt sword is no more of a weapon than a metal pipe.

Any legislation no matter how misguided that strengthens the police powers to act when catching someone with dangerous weapons is another step forward in the standard of civilised society.

England will no doubt follow shortly as always seems to be the case now, the England that was incidentally, for those New Zealanders with no knowledge of recent UK history, not previously 'in full control' of Scotland. And I thought it was only some Americans who thought 'England', 'UK', and 'Britain' were all the same thing...

I am a martial artist and love my swords a ban will effect my arts. A sword, knife, axe is only a weapon in the wrong hands. The law should be changed so that you cna only purchase these if you are involved in martial arts, study scottish history of the clan weapons etc. The sword is part of our freedom and i don't want neds and hooligans mucking that up for the future generations.

Eric Ferguson III @ 22

I am related to quite a few Scots people on my mother's side and have many native Scots friends. To the best of my knowledge and belief not one of them owns a claymore. Incidently, although a lot of my male relations wore a hired kilt and regalia when they got married they don't bother for everyday use. Scotland is a real, 21st century place not some Tartan Wonderland where everyone gets dressed up as Rob Roy!!

I remember who I, and I remember my Clan. I own several claymores, a dirk, targ, and several sgia dubhs. Am I a scary fellow? Perhaps when I served my 20 years in the military. How many years did you serve?

25. Charylee

Is your eyesight selective or did you just not bother to read the fourth paragraph of the article?

Eric, it is that mentality that keeps both my country and yours dragging their heels.

to rob . scotland is fully controlled by england. this joke of a devolved parliament where england controls foreign policy and the purse strings is just that a joke. the people of scotland have no say in major international affairs, and cannot even put a team into the olympics. englangd the uk and britain may be marginally different antities but england with their huge numbers of mp are in total control. and if the people of scotland are to terrified to vote for independance they do not deserve a say in international affairs. were not those bombs going to isreal routed through scotland , ireland was able to say no, england said yes and scotland jumped to do its bit.

And let politicians decide? *SNORT*

Eric Ferguson III @27

Are you asking me? I served 18 years in the Royal Air Force and none of the Scots friends and colleagues that I knew then had a claymore tucked away in their kit bags!!

However, I don't really see why your question is relevant to this discussion. Knife crime is a serious issue in this country. I agree with the posters here who have said that the ban on handguns made no difference to gun crime and in fact it has increased in England, at least. Also, the kind of person who wants to kill another human being doesn't need a sword or a claymore they can just get a carving knife out of the kitchen and unfortunately some of them do.

To the New Zealander who said that the English rule the Scots ............ that my friend is baloney. The Scots have always let the English know exactly where they stand on any issue and have always been a strong force in the United Kingdom.

Eric Ferguson

It is very laudable to keep hold of your history and I am very pleased you recognise and maintain your links to Scotland. These links are historical in the same way for Scottish people now, however, and your comments fail to grasp this I believe.

I wear a full kilt at weddings and Ceilidhs as do many, but any further historical ornaments I would view in a museum along with other relics from a bygine society.

The level of your links at a cultural level is portrayed by your right-wing assumption that your military service (though of unquestionable value to your nation) would be grasped in Scotland as some form of social superiority when in fact that comment will at best be pitied here or at worst ridiculed.

Anna - but they probably had Sgin Dubhs.

And, bye the way Rob - it's Eric Ferguson III. My grandfather was Eric Ferguson. I know who I am. Who are you?

Eric - I do rather doubt that - the RAF Police (some of whom are also Scottish) would have had them jailed for having an offensive weapon.

Anna - might I ask what you're career was in service? I was a weatherman in the USAF for 20.

James, NZ

A sad take on Democracy. Even ignoring the Scottish Prime Minister, Scottish Chancellor of the Exchequer, and other leading politicians (have you been watching the news? Did you spot Mr Reid's accent?) Scotlands minority part in the UK stacks well against any other 5 Million citizens of the UK, and far better given the decentralised powers the Scottish parliament uniquely has.

But it must dismay Northern Scots to discover that they are outvoted and hence fully controlled and open to mockery by the Central Scottish belt, who in turn have no say due to the numerical superiority of the Glasgow area over the rest of Central Scotland.

Remind me who the pathetic minority are in New Zealand- is it the North or South Islanders who by your logic have no identity, power or influence??

What about large hammers?

Odins blood Eric what time is it in Florida? Don't you sword collectors sleep?

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the worst thing to happen to Scotland in recent memory is the setting up of your own Parliament.

Of all the knee-jerk, nanny-state legislation mooted in the media at present, the overwhelming majority of it is started by the dunderheads you've inexplicably voted in to govern you.

Rebuild Hadrian's Wall, quick!

Eric Ferguson (whose Father and Grandfather had the same name and this needs to be stated each time to establish er something to do with accurate identity).

I happen to have the same name as my father, grandfather and great grandfather. My roots have been accurately traced to the 9th Century. My ancestors to that point at least it seems come from the same country as I do. A bit of a bonus in identity perhaps. Though I usually ask the offspring of emmigrants not to bother with all that bowing down before me nonsense.

I was actually trying to enhance your 'Scottishness' by skipping the 1,2,3 routine as it is not used here, we simply use our names. I hear 'the third' quite often from Americans- has anyone made it to four yet?

both north and south islanders are all new zealanders and our 4 million people have a full say in world affairs and can represent new zealand at all sporting events . scotland even has to rely on the charity of fifa to be allowed to play international soccer and even this should be stopped as scotland in not an independent country. in case you hadent noticed northern scots are still scots asc are those in the central belt

Well aren't we treading familiar ground. "We (the Scots) are a race of leaders. But you can't all be leaders, therefore, we tend to fight one another." ~ Nigel Tranter

Adam#10 Just like you may care about what happened in your home town if you left, some Americans, those who know Santayana, seek to understand themselves through interaction with their origins.

Aside (What would America be like if the British oligarchy had not been so anxious to expel the Highlanders et al.?)

The political left continues their well worn habit of feel good legislation. Prohibition, with its racist roots, will do more harm to our society than good. Any prohibition ultimately proves unenforceable. The use of a sledgehammer to attempt to kill a midge will engender continued growth in a black market and further disrespect for 'the law'.

The ego boost of 'being seen to do something' is more addictive than drugs.

rob and anna leave poor eric alone. he told you that he has done 20 years in th american airforce that should give you a clue that he is not very good at making decisions, we should pity him even if he is aware of his roots

James @ 30

"the people of scotland have no say in major international affairs, and cannot even put a team into the olympics."

Sorry, James you are wrong about the Olympics.... the team is a British one made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The same is true of the European and World Championships we field an athletics team together. The only one where we do not is in the Commonwealth Games and that is probably because of the many smaller countries that compete in those games.

To get back to the article ........ I don't think you should be allowed to keep a javelin about your person on the street either!!

Btw: Eric ....... I worked in Air Traffic.

James (30). There is nothing more I would like to see than Scotland running it's own affairs but we need to make sure that we hand the responsibilty of independence to our brightest and most competent people.

The SNP eject anyone who dares to contradict them. Margo MacDonald and Dorothy-Grace Elder are but two who suffered this fate.

I happen to know from experience that the SNP cannot even run their own party efficiently, so how can they ever hope to run the country? My bet is that they won't win the Scottish election next May because they don't want to, knowing that they cannot run the country with a one-man band.

They also know, if they ever do become the ruling party at Holyrood and make a shambles of it, the Scottish people will never listen to them again and that means they will all lose their precious salary, mentioned above.

We have just had nine years of empty-headed arrogance fromTony Blair and we don't want anymore of that from our own so-called fellow Scots.

So - that's my plans for Islamic-style executions out of the window? A great pity.

rob i had an interesting tale going into australia i was carrying a mossie zapper, it was battery operated and about the size of a tennis raquet it was confiscated as an ilegal import, the customs officer advising that it could be used to harm a child, i did ask if that would include protected young mosquitoes, and i pointed out that so could a lump of 4 by 2 or a baseball bat be used to harm a child, he still took the mosquito zapper. thes epeople have rules and apply them even if they make no sense

also what if you are on your way to a javelin competition, would you nedd a note from your mother or will there be pehaps a special police permit

James

Depends........on if you are throwing the javelin or catching it!

anna it wouldnt matter if i threw it with my dodgy shoulder it wouldnt go to far

Rob #41 (even the ref number is an americanism!) George Hamilton IV was an American C&W singer (what else could he have been?) popular in the 1960s and 1970s. he's still around afaik, if a bit doddery.
And don't forget the English Classical composer Frank IV Bridge whose cousin George is a well-known Edinburgh kennel and pigeon loft. (har har)

What worries me about the sword thing is, they'll be trying to ban Ribena next. Oh, they've started trialling that near the airports already.....

I guess we should be having a golf club amnesty, a baseball and criket bat amnesty as well then. I think if wanted to cause another individual harm there are all sorts of implements available I could use. You could kill someone with a rock if you wanted too so should we ban them, alternatively I could drown someone so we should ban water too.

When will the politicians realise it is people that carry out these acts and removing one item will just have them reaching for another.

Re: proposed legislation to curb "booze and blades" culture, why not bring in legiation to curb the booze instead?
That would leave the swords and culture part of Scotland's heritage intact.

Anna....Eric Ferguson III is clearly taking the mick...don't rise to it!

(well, I hope he's taking the mick otherwise it's somewhat scary!)

i really want a sword now. they sound cool.

Scotland's 'booze and blades' culture is all about natural selection - but it's prevalent throughout the UK, so there's no need for the Scots to add it to the long list of things that they think they invented.

Most of the drunks out on the streets wouldn't be missed in any case, if someone 'terminally inconvenienced' them with a knife or sword - so my take on the problem of controlling binge-drinkers and edged weapons is 'arm the drinkers, cordon off large town centre areas for them to run wild in, and then let them run their numbers down the easy way'. After that, the police can come in and scoop up whatever's left, confiscate all weapons and optionally execute any survivors.

You know it makes sense - the drunks don't respond to advertising, education, police control or even the example of what's happened to their 'mates' in similar situations - so they need to be in a landfill, and soon. A side benefit would be a reduction in the load on our taxes via the DSS and police overtime costs.

People whose brains are ruined by drink don't usually work all that productively, so they aren't able to pull their weight in society and would be no loss to anyone if they found themselves 'offed' in a street affray. My solution is fully justified by logic.

oh philip if ur running for one of those rediculous politicians jobs next year , i will so vote for you.

I know they say that religious, cultural and sporting people will be exempted, but what about those of us who declared ourselves as Jedi at the last census? Are light sabres covered?

What are they going to do about those who already own swords for non-religious, non-cultural or non-sporting reasons? Are the police going to search every home in Scotland?

Laws are made for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools. It's a pity that the fools are making the law. I'm glad I only visit Scotland to work or take a holiday; I'm not sure I would want to live there at the moment.

another crazy knee jerk reaction from an idiotic executive,these clowns have to go, they are turning scotland into a laughing stock,are they going to ban
all pointy metal things?

Kitchen Cutlery, Cricket and Baseball Bats, and Sharp, Pointy Sticks will be Next To Go.

Guard your spoons--the porridge-police are coming.

The Wussification of Scotland continues.

I seriously doubt that most of the domestic stabbings that turn up in A+E are the result of a sword. Will you need to register when you buy a kitchen knife? I've heard of more people stabbed by those.

And as someone who sells knives and swords I make a point of not selling them to neds. Classist? Maybe but I don’t want to think I’m responsible for some idiot who wants to play Braveheart. I sell swords and knives under the “religious” category but I hope that there won’t be discrimination on handing out these licenses. I have a feeling this could get ugly and the word discrimination will be used a little too often.

My brother in law is a blacksmith, I’ll be interested to see what this does to his trade. His real passion is historical armour and weaponry. I guess he can always make gates for a living now…

Only a 1% crime rate for an edge weapons-! Was this for historically accurate sword or some type of Fantasy sword-? I would like to see what the percentage rate would be for bad political decision and corruption would be vs. a sword crime. When you start taking someone's culture and pride away, you are taking their soul, heritage, and pride of one nation away. This not only affects the Scottish culture, but also affects the Scottish community here in the US as well.

["13. James / 9:33am 14 Aug 2006
Let the punishment fit the crime.

Individuals who are found carrying Swords, guns etc, without a good reason, should have the whole weight of the law dropped on their head, not just a smack on the wrist, but charge them with the intent to commit murder."]

So by your thinking anyone with a penis should be locked up for intent to commit rape?

What are the punishments for: brandishment of a knife, actually attacking someone with a knife with no lethality, and murdering someone with a knife?

I'm trying to picture someone walking down the street with a claymore in hand and i can't stop laughing. Do you really need a law for this? Unless it was a historical event, you could easily spot the nutter and stand clear.

What about sales of weapons to and from England or indeed the rest of Europe?

Are we going to have a Scottish customs control at the border?

Are we going to XRay all mail coming into scotland.

Type swords into ebay uk at the moment and you get
6148 results

Having worked a a Door Steward I have seen countless assaults - almost all with bottles and glasses some with stanley blades and some with kitchen knives - never ever a sword.

This is legislation that will harm legitimate scottish business and do no good at all.

I own a claymore that I bought in one of the faux mediaevil shops here in Montreal. It looks quite nice above the fireplace, but would actually be rather useless as a weapon. It is a blunt as a kipper and so poorly balanced that it would be more likely to hurt the bearer than anybody else.

"Are we going to have a Scottish customs control at the border?" asks Rob @ 68

The problem with that, Rob, is that you will then create a black market in claymores, swords, dirks and other sharp things. My concern is that I might not be able to keep hold of my arrowheads and longbow if this legislation strikes down here as well. I might even have to confiscate Little John's staff - he won't be happy about that. What will we Merry Men do with out our weapons? Will we be able to rely on supplies through the underground from our Northern Borders? It's a minefield ...... I suppose they'll be banning them next......

Yours

Robin of Locksley

PS: Don't let the Sheriff know about this!!

im thinking vigilante,s would solve the problems

Great idea letting people keep swords for religious reasons. Remind me again the greatest cause of massacres in the twenty years?

Banning handguns was sensible as is banning swords. Who really needs a sword?

Anything reducing the number of weapons like this in circulation is a good thing.

They can even ban knives entirely too - just as long as they let me keep my fork!

20. James: Not voting creates bigger problems, you'll still need too pay for it and the people in power will be chosen by others and as you don't belive in Democrosy, you won't be able to complain about whats happening without being called a hibacrite.

At least when you vote you can say voted for these tubes and look at the mess they've created (I'm going to vote for someone else next time) or I didn't vote for them, don't blame me.

I hate to hear this. Sword control, like gun control isn't going to work. Only the law-abiding will comply. I have brought back a sword for display on each of my trips to Scotland. It is a culture/heritage symbol and I urge Scotland to hang on to it. Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to violence that can be administered with a short blade -- and evidently is -- more than with a sword.

When Quentin and I start filming Kill Bill 3 in Scotland next year, all you claymore enthusiasts are for the chop!

Two famous leaders who disarmed their populations were Hitler and Stalin. I wonder why? Punish offenders properly and you will see these crimes drop away.

I don't think I know anyone who owns a sword, everyone owen at least 1 knife in most cases it's in the kitchen. Don't most people get stabed by knifes.

#72: Banning knife completly is a stuiped Idea, though unless your someone who only eats readymade meals (YUCK, salty, empty Kcal) Sorry Forks are dangerous too and would also be banned under a crasy law like you sugesting, What about Chopsticks, there fun to use espically if your not use to useing them!

Ban swords and they'll buy machetes, ban Rambo knives, knives and they'll buy stanleys, etc.. etc..

Don't underestimae the scum, they will still find something within the law to chib you with. Simple answer is tougher sentencing.

Commit a knife crime equals attempted murder or serious assault equals a fixed penalty. Sentence for carrying a knife (tooled-up) without a good reason or in way of an occupation should be treated as 'intent to use it' and should equal fixed fine or jail term.

Problem is our Laws are too liberal and the violent criminals know this and are laughing their heads off.

In fact, the very same Liberal people who would band swords would let the local Psycho, who'd actually use one, out of jail before his full punishment was served.

Biggest problem is that we continue to tolerate almost infamous shops like one particular place in Argyle Street, Glasgow, where the ned culture has been arming itself for 20 years or more. It's almost a beacon to neds for 50 miles around.

Then there's the rise in Pounds hops, have you looked at what you can buy for a pound in there? A whole packet of knives, enough to tool- up a whole team...

James (76). I'm sure the Poles are comforted that the German and Soviet armies that overran their country in 1939 were unarmed.

And what did they fight the Battle of Kursk with? Pea shooters?

Send him to Texas for some reeducation. The poor man needs some help desparately! Once we were able to obtain handgun licenses easily crimes went down. No criminal in his right mind wants to intrude knowing that he might get shot. As for blades, what's next? All pocket knives with blades over 1" long banned? Good grief!!! How thoughtlessly low can some people sink?

22. Eric Ferguson III.

I really think the USA should clear up it's own violent problems before you go on to pontificate at how we should solve ours.

I'm a Scot living in Houston, TX, and even here I wouldn't go Downtown in Houston on a Saturday night because of not just knife crime, but the chances of being shot (for reasons of muggings, racial tensions, or just plain old violence) are incredibly high.

Now I grew up in Glasgow, I'm pretty street-wise and no stranger to a fight, but in this place I assure you I watch my back.

I'd rather be in the worst street I can think of in Glasgow or Edinburgh at 2 am on a Saturday night and take my chances there, than wait on the Metro platform in Downtown Houston at 10pm on a week night. Better still consider Pasadena near Houston where the chances of a redneck shooting or stabbing you is so bad that Houstonians giving you directions often tell you not to stop there. Show me any US city that is not at least as violent?

You are in Florida. Surely you've heard of Miami's violent image and surely you've heard that it is one of the most dangerous and violent places in the USA. Don't preach about what you don't know...

Hi Guys

Iam sorry to say, that some of your comments are good and bad , but in the end it all boils donw to one thing. Instead of everyone coming to some sort of agreement you have all turned on each other, and that won` help the matter at hand. So instead of everyone having ago at each other, remember why you wanted to add your comment.

I have to say in my opition the swords should not be banned, because if someone wants to go out and harm someone they going to do it with any sort of weopen.The goverment should thing wisely before just wanting to banned anything smiply because they cannot find the right solution. If the goverment want to do right by there people they should be working with them, so they have there help and support not just laying down laws without thinkink them through

Thanks for reading

Eve(73). Have you ever thought of becoming an MSP, or are you one now?

83, James.

Since Eve spells Democracy as "Democrosy" I'm sure she is already an MSP - she must be one of the Scottish Socialists...

scotland should be renamed bannland.

I am just surprised that they dont go the extra mile in undoing the "booze and blades" culture by getting rid of all the booze too. With all the swords and booze banned from sale except for religious purposes think how many people will be saved. I also think that while they are banning dangerous items automobiles and bathtubs should be on the list, and also, probably, stairs. If only one life is saved or serious injury is averted it will be worthwhile.....

Clearly an emotive issue as there are lots of comments. The ones that impress me most are those by Rudi Crawford in the original article.

Hoi, yous numpties ah'm a signatory of the Save Oor Swords campaign. It's fundamental to wor youth culture and entertainment. If yous lot ban oor blades then we canny chib each other any mer. Where's the fun in that? Next ye'll be taken away oor Buckfast, and tellin' us we canny get zero herrcuts or wear Kappa's innat...

Very sad, I should say. Banning the swords will not solve the problem and only contribute to a downward spiral in Scotland's economy. Tougher laws to the offender sound reasonable to me.
I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Sotland as yet, though I do plan to in 2008. I do so hope a very vibrant part of our culture is still there.

Very sad, I should say. Banning the swords will not solve the problem and only contribute to a downward spiral in Scotland's economy. Tougher laws to the offender sound reasonable to me.
I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Sotland as yet, though I do plan to in 2008. I do so hope a very vibrant part of our culture is still there.

Afraid I have to agree with Geordie msg 40, the worse thing that ever happened to Scotland was the bloomin parliament, just another excuse for another layer of taxation, legislation and wasting money on hideous monstrosities such as the building and the SMP's. Why is it when people stand for parliament there common sense seems to runout their jacksies?
Talk about throwing tha baby out with the bath water, happens everytime. Seems that legislation is purely at the whim of some media scare campaign.

speaking as x plod and as a family support worker trying to ensure that at least some of the flotsam and jestsom this idiot society has created have a chance in life, and as someone who would be classified as having a legitimate use for a weapon, for religious purposes and sporting. Everyone with half a brain cell knows that banning swords isn't going to solve things. People very rarely attack each other with swords ( and a technical point you actually want your sword to be blunt not sharp it would chip) they use stanley knives and kitchen knives and screw drivers that are easy to hide.
Banning guns hasn't stopped gun crime, I could go into town tomorrow and get hold of one, and the USA/canada allegory just shows that legislation solves nothing, letting the punishment fit the crime might, teaching people that with respect comes responsibility might.

Bring back national service for goodness sake, let the army sort out the mess most parents seem incapable of these days, because the government won't let them. Don't wheenge about our violent society when they have taken away from us parents any ability to legitimately control our kids.

(84). You got it in one!

What I can't understand about this article is when it says:

"Several retailers in Edinburgh's Royal Mile sell swords - starting from about £100 - as well as sgian dubh."

I'm sure I don't have to explain the differences between a four foot long chib and a blunt ceremonial dagger that goes in your sock.

Having some kind of control on the selling of swords can only help in the basic educational message that they are potentially dangerous in the wrong hands. Wrong hands being not neccessarily the one who bought them but the little brother who wants to imitate "Bodyguard" for example or "The last Samorai". These things don't fade away. They can stay in a cupboard for years and years until somebody, maybe a kid finds one and wants to play with it or use in a temper with someone. Its like a gun. Don't have it in the house.
I know when they sell them , they are blunt but they can be sharpened by a proffessional or not so good by oneself .
I'd suggest then it would be ilegal to sharpen a sword or posses a sharpened sword. Only educaton and common sense can stop someone from using a sword as a sword. Kids who are easily influenced are probably the most prone to doing harm with them. Much more fun to swish a sword around than a metal pipe.
Katanas are quite pretty and I think they would look quite sexy in a bedroom ("Bodyguard" again) but not for me (the sword).

83. James: No Not an MSP, Sadly I'm far too busy to stand next year, o well at least theres 2011, That should give me the time I need to find a party, aims, objectives and develop Stratiges.

84. Cheeky Besom: Sorry about the spelling mistake "Democracy as "Democrosy"" Thank you for seting me straight, I most certaintly do not want to be in the same boat as the SSP at the moment.

SSP is that the Scottish Swingers Party? ;-)

"An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein

Yet again the politicians (sorry MSPs they are not real politicians are they) elect to ban something. An easy way out for them but that does not solve the problem at the end of the day.

Handguns were banned yet gun crime increases. Knife (or rather blade) crime has increased again, why? Some say alcohol but that has always been freely available. I remember this sort of crime being reduced effectively once before by one of the High Court Judges Lord Carmont. He handed sown sentences that were punative and lo and behold the crime numbers fell.

Now our prisons are full and yet are the punishments effective. A government that says it is hard on crime and hard on the causes of crime. Are they? Perhaps they are one ofd teh real causes with policies that do not work.

In any case I thought that carrying large bladded weapons in public was already an offence. So why do we need another law?

What about those of us that just collect these things? I've got several of them hanging on my wall, just to be looked at. I find them to be 'pretty'. Some people collect coins, some stamps, some bugs. I happen to collect swords, historical or fanciful. My Klingon sword hangs next to my Lord of the Rings swords and they are near the claymore and Highland broadsword. These swords are just about as dangerous as a length of pipe or a golf club. Going to ban plumbers and golfers next.

Wait... Might be a good idea. Old men in funny pants and hairy asscracks would fall by the wayside... THEY are more dangerous than swords.

I’m a Scot and I’ve lived in China for the last 6 years. With the ban on smoking and now a ban on swords, which I collect, I don’t have a great urge to come home. If I do I will probably move to somewhere else in the UK.

The problem is, as I see it, is that Scotland is too small to produce enough quality politicians to fill a parliament (or at least the quality individuals don’t appear to go into politics). The Scottish parliament appears to be full of political midgets with ill thought out ideas.

I watch the HK parliament, again HK has a small population, on HK TV in Guangdong, Southern China. It too is full of political pygmies who continually overreact to things.

I’m all for a Scottish parliament. I just wish it wasn’t so full of self serving clowns who are full of their own importance. Sad to say but instead of the Scottish parliament serving Scotland it has turned into one big gravy train. Jobs for the boys.

Why ban swords but not ban Stanley knives and craft blades? They are involved in far more attacks after all. Does the Scottish parliament plan to offer financial compensation for the economic damage this will do to some businesses?

Ban the guns, then ban the knives
ban them all, it won't save lives,
the criminals will do their schtick
and stab you with a pointy stick.
You and I will rue the day
we let the poli's have their way.

Yet another body blow to the people of the cherished land of my ancestors. William Wallace must be turning over in his grave. First, it was a ban on all guns. Then, the loss of the esteemed Scottish regiments. Next, no smoking. What next on the chopping board?!? Malt whiskey?? Pity, pity, pity.....

Yet another body blow to the people of the cherished land of my ancestors. William Wallace must be turning over in his grave. First, it was a ban on all guns. Then, the loss of the esteemed Scottish regiments. Next, no smoking. What next on the chopping board?!? Malt whiskey?? Pity, pity, pity.....

On the one or two comments regarding who needs a sword.

I have practiced Traditional martial Arts for over 20 years.

Am I to throw away somthing that forms an important part of my life just because some Ned in glasgow thinks it is cool to wave a sword around.

Mayby they should start by banning buckfast

In the eightys they banned throwing stars and manriki-kusari (a chain with weights on the end) because they were dangerous
That didnt work either

Let me let you in on a few sad facts. We tried gun control in Canada (registration of all firearms). It was initially priced at about 10 million pounds to set up and run. 5 years later with less than 20% of the estimated guns registered the cost had climbed to over 750 million pounds. The current government finally scrapped the whole idiotic idea. The crime rate using hand guns during this period soared. Last year in Toronto it was known as the year of the gun. Sword control will make a very nice work project for some government department and do absolutely nothing to resolve the issue. Just take the existing laws and prosecute the offenders to its full extent. Wish we would do the same thing. Does this mean I will have to leave my Sghian Dubh at home when our band comes over next year to compete. Pity

Let me let you in on a few sad facts. We tried gun control in Canada (registration of all firearms). It was initially priced at about 10 million pounds to set up and run. 5 years later with less than 20% of the estimated guns registered the cost had climbed to over 750 million pounds. The current government finally scrapped the whole idiotic idea. The crime rate using hand guns during this period soared. Last year in Toronto it was known as the year of the gun.Sword control will make a very nice work project for some government department and do absolutely nothing to resolve the issue. Just take the existing laws and prosecute the offenders to its full extent. Wish we would do the same thing. Does this mean I will have to leave my Sghian Dubh at home when our band comes over next year to compete. Pity

ITs heartening to see the vast majority of posters agreeing my friends and I. WE do historical fencing and re-enactment, and this legislation will inconvenience us, and may lead to people being put out of business. Yet at the same time, it will do nothing to curb violence.

SO, instead of moaning on here, go and do something, like talk to your MSP. They will be only too happy to listen, it is their job after all. The legislation is not yet passed, we can still do something about it.

No John, you will not have to leave your skein dubh at home when you come here. (Just put it in the hold, otherwise you'll lose it at security and end up in Guantanamo)
A skein Dubh counts as a historical/ cultural artefact. I've walked about town with one on many ocaisions.
However, were I to try and get into a nightclub with one, I would probably be refused entry.

Dick @15, I'm sure your gov't will create another bureaucracy to enforce this new proposed ban. I have no idea what ya'll would call it, but here I'm sure it would be called the bureau of ASS, that is the Bureau of Alchol, Swords and Smoking! And to David @81(native Scot, I presume, living in Houston), aye laddie buck, we are a lively bunch down here in TEXAS! Don't you just love living in Houston David? Helluva city! Houston ain't no place for the faint of heart, is it? AND to you Adam @ 10 because more of your weird cousins are here, you know, the ones the English monarchy didn't cotton to. The ones that would rather fight for, than talk about! Come to Texas lad, you will be welcomed here, plenty room to grow up in!

Adam, almost forgot, be sure to bring all your knives and swords with you lad, you can get yourself a gun when you get here!

What we actually need is a return to times when the law was tough - properly tough - and when you would get a proper punishment for using weapons.

All this namby-pamby armistice nonsense and slap-on-the-wrist banning rubbish is a waste of time. Anyone can get hold of a lethal blade - even a screwdriver serves the same purpose if you want to be lethal.

No, the only answer is to punish people who carry and use offensive weapons. A return - proper return - to the death penalty might help but - oh!! - then what about the poor darlings' human rights. I'd forgotten about the overriding importance of the rights of the scum who commit crime

109, jd, You are right there and things have got a little more dangerous (this past year) since the NOLA people got here. That however is another issue. :-D

Ya know, I could just as easily murder someone with a sharp stick. They are easier to obtain, for the most part easier to use (without training), easier to dispose of, and you don't have to have a license to carry one. For that matter, I could beat someone to death with my kitchen chair! Why not ban everything that can hurt anyone? Of course, then what would we use to stab our food and transport it to our mouths?

I saw in the article that as many as 30 people a week were admitted for blade injuries, therefore blades should be banned. One person was quoted as saying "If even one death or disfigurement was prevented it would be worth it." I believe the proper response in the UK would be "Rubbish!" Here in the US it would be a reference to the byproduct of male bovine digestion. How many people are admitted each day for auto "accidents"? How many people are suffering from pollution induced or aggravated lung disease? How many soldiers have died fighting in the Mideast? And how many of you would be willing to give up your precious automobiles to stop all that?

To get back to the subject of banning swords for safety reasons, let's look at the statistics: 30 a week of blade injuries serious enough to require a trip to hospital, 1% of that caused by swords. That would be 30 times 52 divided by 100 for a grand total of 15 injuries (not deaths, not disfigurements, just injuries) a year prevented if all swords are removed from Scotland. And what would be the cost of this ban? How much money per injury are the Scots willing to spend? And would better results be found by other means? How many Scots would be saved from a trip to what we call the ER in the US (I don't know the Scots term for it) if the money spent to enforce the ban on swords were spent on other ways to prevent accidents? I don't know. I do know that banning of swords would do nothing to reduce blade crime, just result in different blades being used, or perhaps not a blade at all but a blunt instrument, like a fireplace iron. Well then I guess it would not be blade crime, but it would still be a crime, an assault. When the law abiding are disarmed, only criminals and the government would be armed, and I feel safer with the criminals.

Opus

Lastly, I would like to plug Lanark medieval festival, on this weekend in Lanark. It is in commmemoration of William Wallace.

http://www.lanarkmedievalfestival.co.uk/

FAO 104. rob

OK we will ban everyone apart from you. You can also continue using sporting hand guns as it would be so unfair to make you have to comply with that law too. Perhaps you could hunt a few foxes if you have some extra spare time. Then view a wee bit of child porn, as it wasn't you that took the pictures and they were taken already?

There is no need for swords (or guns) in society, if we get rid of them - it means possessing them can be seen as clearly more criminal - and the penalties increased.

Another bad law by our ever incompetant pc mad
under acheiving knee jerking justice minister,get a life , retire and stop medling in our lives,ban this ban that, jamieson.

Hi Joseph#97 too true!!! When my hubby is out of town, I'm sure glad to have my 9mm next to me to defend myself and my children should any scum try to harm us!
History has shown us that to disarm the populace so that they can no longer individually defend themselves means tipping the balance of control to that of the government, not to mention any scum who would wish to cause harm. Scum will always find a way to be armed. Ban swords and knives, they will use pieces of metal, plastic toothbrushes etc, hone it down to a point, wrap the end with some cloth...creating a shank.
As to the blade and booze culture, yes, it's frightening, as is our gang culture here. I think too many people, governments are focused on the quick fix (the smoke), when they should be addressing what is causing the fire. Address the social problem itself, not the resulting behavior.

guthrie #115. thanks for unmaking my day - I missed that (and I only went to Lanark Grammar School!)

Right now, I'm finding it very hard to sharpen my steak knife while having a few drinks. This booze and blade culture is hard work, there ought to be a law against it!

FAO 118. melanie

More are killed in the USA with handguns than in car accidents, see Michael Moore's website for the particular statistics.

That is due to guns being freely available.

In the UK it is virtually unheard of for housebreakers to carry guns, yet in the USA it seems some schools had to ban them.

Every few years in the US there is a "Columbine", due to the ready supply of weapons.

Have you ever thought about using the money spent on a gun to get decent locks and a burglar alarm?

Doing this will protect you more if you dont wake when someone attempts to break in, and stop your kids blowing their heads off if they find your gun and play with it.

If you find this unbelievable - do a search on all gun crimes on this news site and prepare to be shocked how few there are in the UK.

I also think we should ban Cathie Jamieson from eating all the pies.

Of course the other thing you've all forgotten, and which is exercising the minds of the lawyers, is what is the legal definition of a 'sword'.

I keep 2 fencing epees at home (allowed),a kukri (still greased and never sharpened) and a parang (used on a survival course in Brunei).

Is a parang, which might be like a small and less curved kris, a sword or a machete or a knife? If a kukri is not a sword, what is it? It's shorter than the ceremonial sword I wore on my wedding day, but lethal in the right hands.

This can only be good news for lawyers (if you can find one to defend you on legal aid).

Is Freemasonry, which uses swords, cultural or religious or neither? What will the Grand Sword Bearer make of it all?

Will there be reverse traffic. Instead of Englishmen rushing to Gretna Green to get marrried, could there be Scots shopping for claymores in Carlisle.

Both the people I know who have died of sword injuries were fencers. Perhaps the sport should be banned as well.

If it is only 15 injuries per year from swords what is the problem? 25% of the people reading this will die from smoking; I would suggest that none of us will die from a sword wound.

In England and Wales 3000 people a year die from falls. The person who suggested banning stairs will save more lives than the people who want to ban swords.

Anyway chaps and chappesses, it's your Parliament, you are welcome to it.

Tom #111 re the death penalty I think you are right but for the wrong reasons. It isn't a deterrent. It isn't a punishment for nutters of all persuasions who believe their martyrdom will get them a backstage pass to heaven. It isn't even a punishment for people who take confession and 'die in the church'. It IS a convenient way of keeping the rest of us reasonably safe by reducing the numbers of baddies and avoiding repeat offenders. But there are problems with such a simplistic view. Reintroduction would also require a very robust redefinition of crime categorisation that removed value judgement. The battered wife who kills after 25 insufferable years, for example, would wrongly be at risk. We need two or three other things (at least!) to make it worth the risk.
(1) Proof of intent is very neccessary: any legal system that distinguishes crime type by result is fundamentally flawed - for instance if you do 55mph in a 30 but don't hit anything it's £40 and 6 points, but if you kill a toddler it's 5years for death-by-reckless. I don't care what the kiddie-lobby say, that is illogical - which way to shift the balance is another separate matter.
(2) mitigation if the likes of the 'battered wife' syndrome pertains ie if the dirty rat somehow 'deserved' it and the killer was only doing the court's work.
(3) by 'proper return' I presume you might also mean avoiding the US model where a man recently was excuted for a crime committed in 1974. Justice has to be swift. One appeal on legal grounds and one for clemency. Maximin six weeks from sentencing to execution.
(4) Age and gender MUST be irrelevant. whether 6 or 106, the penalty must be the same.
(5) as a move away from the idiotic deterrence argument, the method should be whatever passes for 'humane' perhaps even at the discretion of the prisoner since you'll hear scientific objections all the currently popular method. Additional options like pill overdoses, hemlock and drowning in the pris

must be a slow news day....

nothing about tommy sheridan

to continue form #124...

Yes I mean it: life IS a gamble, but at least by so-shifting the emphasis more gamblers would understand the risk. But not without a radical rethink of the rest of criminal law.

Paul @ 123

"Instead of Englishmen rushing to Gretna Green to get marrried, could there be Scots shopping for claymores in Carlisle."

Surely, not just Englishmen running to Gretna to get married, Paul, what about the Englishwomen - doesn't it take two to tango? Or have I missed a news bulletin somewhere about 'men only' marriages being carried out at Gretna? Actually, I probably have!

I was wondering if anyone thought that maybe these popular Movies like "kill Bill" with Uma Thurman and the "Highlander" Movies might be in some way part of the problem which make's Sword's the popular choice weaponry and that people think their play some kind of sick game and trying to be just like their favorite Star's of these Movies....just a thought.

By the way;about the comment that was made by "Adam" that said was is there more & more weird posting coming from the USA...I have to say to him that not all posting's coming from the US is weird,we just think differently but he has a right to his oppion...

DannyL at post 119- If you leave North Wales early on Saturday morning, you could be up in Lanark by lunchtime, the battle isn't until the afternoon.

Utterly ridiculous! Punish the criminals instead of taking away the rights of everyone else.

Well I for one am in favor of same sex marriages for the English. Just think, in a few more generations, the English would be extinct! Just kidding! Sorry to say, one of my grandmothers said she was English, but I think that was because she didn't want to admit to being a Scot. Not kidding about that.

It is our job now to make the Parliament and media aware of the Sense and Reason behind our rational arguments.

For those who have not already petitioned on the Save Our Swords campaign, please visit the online petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?Swords
and please add your name and forward this link to as many interested and concerned parties as possible.

Given the fact that the Parliament has seemingly refused to listen to the views of thousands of its own citizens, a re-submission shall be presented with more names as soon as they can be gathered.

Please make your voice count.

The present online petition count stands today, ironically enough, at 1745.
Let`s not face and stand for another crushing of our nations culture and tradition by a power hungry government as happened in that year.

I am a city based swordmaker and historical fencing master who faces paying licence fees and jumping through unneccessary political hoops because MSPs are of a mind that swords have the inherent ability to be `deadly` all by themselves.
This is simply not true.

And licencing retailers makes life no more difficult for any criminal intent on committing physical harm or worse to another human being.

I am presently in the US where I have been presenting demonstrations and workshops of Scotland and Europes proud martial traditions and heritage. And now the Scottish Parliament wants to literally shield the sword from the eyes of its own citizens. A strong cultural symbol of freedom and what we have stood for over the centuries.

Would this stop or restrict crime? Not one bit.

More importantly, Has the Parliament presented any hard evidence, fact or figures that Prove swords are a great threat to its citizens?
It has not.

Is the Parliament then about to just create new laws based upon medi

Poor woman, she smoked, dipped snuff and drank whisky, and threatened us kids with a butcher knife. she was 96 years old when she died. No telling how long she would have lived if she was a tee-totaler, I can vouch for this, all us grandkids was sure glad she drank, smoked, and dipped herself to death. She was pure demon!

In 1755 (Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, Tue, Nov 11, 1755), Franklin wrote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

hey guys when are you gonna draw the line?

you all make fun of we Americans for our firearm laws... and one of the "tired replies" regards the slippery slope.. but it's been cited here (BY YOUR COUNTRYMEN)... where outlawing firearms has resulted in DOUBLING your firearm related crime rates

You make (insert favorite "armament" here) illegal and ony criminals will have (insert favorite "armament" here)...

CAUSE THEY'RE CRIMINALS AND REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THE LAW.... LOL

For SQCIC: Moore doesn't have all his facts straight but that is a recurring problem the anti-gun faction. Review studies by Dr Kleck, a liberal, member of ACLU, who initially thought it would be easy to support the anti-gun beliefs but after reviewing and conducting various studies, he determined the pro-gun side was correct. The media spreads these (sometimes purposeful) inaccuracies, a recent one concerned "children" and gun violence; what they neglected to say was the terms were defined so that 2 24 years old gangbangers who killed one another would be listed as supporting the amount of gun violence described. The national media will air stories about Columbine, CO and Killeen, Texas but fail to report where an armed person stops criminals and saves lives, it's just not considered newsworthy. They also don't emphasis some school shootings were stopped by people who had weapons in their car. If we want to effect the amount of violence in our society, we need to address several factors including prohibition of drugs, change in minority family make-up due to welfare, change in majority family due to women's liberation, societal change due to the move from a largely agrarian society pre-WWII, and failure to deal criminals swiftly and justly, and the coddling of pedophiles whether they are priests or your garden variety pervert. A large number of criminals in prison were abused as children and they never received treatment needed to overcome those heinous acts.

If number of weapons per capita could predict societal violence, Switzerland would be on top.

first guns, now knives, what's next, Knitting needles?

jd in Texas,

I'm sure you're a sweetie really ........... some English people do marry out you know. We try to stop them but the blighters keep getting away. My father had the effrontery to marry a Scotswoman but not at Gretna and I don't think her old Dad was holding a claymore to his back, either.

I am a Scot living in Hong Kong. I have not read 100% of the above but have sampled some and am obliged to ask you Residents/Citizens of Scotland to rewiew your attitudes.
If you met a "Native armed with a sword" (can I trust you to identify a Native?) would it worry you? ) Few
Fencing is a sport that teaches balance and poise. Leadership fvollows

Time to take back your rights.... you'll all look funny trying cutting your steak with the little plastic government approved knives you're heading towards.......

Oh guthrie what an eejit I was.. I saw the '24/07/06' flashing and assumed it was all over. Only now on scrolling down do I see the 'resource added' subtitle, and the real date of 19-20 Aug. Fierce attempts to reschedule the Stirling business appointment for Friday will follow urgently!

Hahaha, Danny. Mind you, I told everyone an event was on the weekend after it actually was, fortunately someone pointed out in time.

If you do get there, I'll be the tall bloke in the sword demo on Saturday.

As for all the American posters, yes, we welcome your general support, but could you please keep it down. Ranting on about rights and guns and stuff doesnt work over here.

First off I would like to mention that I can't recall a column to have generated so many commets ever before!! And apparently all against the ban. Can this type of issue be put before some voters somehow?

Now if it is so important to keep 15 people out a population of 5 million safe from sword injury, should garden tools be banned also? I am sure that many more than 15 people injure themselves and others with hedge trimmers, lawn mowers, loppers, scythes and the like. These instruments of injury seem much more dangerous to the average Scot and so should be banned at once too. "Get on it Ms. Jaimeson"

#134 Rennie, #135 Mike, and #136 A, Thank you, point made.
#121 Sed, Latin is it? sorry I'm a bit rusty, care to translate....my children, of course, have been taught firearm safety and yes, they all can hit inside the 10 ring! Locks on doors and alarm, I live in California, of course I have those. Michael Moore or Mickey Mouse, please. Sorry, outlawing guns means only the Government and the scumbags will have them.
#127 Anna, still up for the Tour? I said I would leave my sword at home, I'll guess I'll have to leave my 9mm home, too!! Well, if any badguys come our way, we'll have to ply them with whiskey, then throttle them with sticks, hammers and rocks! Maybe the Reivers will come to our assistance!

Hmmm....first ban handguns, handgun crimes explode. Next ban knives....knive incidents sky-rockets. Now swords...what are they afraid of Immortals ala Highlander who can conceal a three foot on their person? When was the last time there was a "drive by" swording. Seems like the "Nanny State" is succeeding...NOT! Why not actually punish those criminals who commit these acts besides clamping down on the 99% of society who are law abiding. I know it must be so much easier to place pensioners in prison for not paying there outrageous council taxes than actually fight crime and curtail the causes. Hate to see the Police and law makers actually enforce the laws on the books instead of attempting to show how Political Correct they are. After this? Screwdrivers? Ice picks? Tongue Depressors? Pencils and pens? When will it stop?

When are you people going to get the message??? Inanimate objects are not the root of your societal problems, they are only the tools. After Dunblane, you effectively banned firearms, now criminals are using knives and (occasionally) swords. Ban them, and they are going to change to big rocks. What are you going to do then?? Smash all the big rocks to gravel? Oh, darn, I forgot sticks. Better burn them all--- Oh, no, can't do that, air pollution, don't you know? I keep thinking that eventually you are going to realise that only the law abiding obey these laws. the criminals are going to do what thay want. Big surprise--- That's what makes them criminals. I have always been proud of my Scot ancestry, but now I'm feeling like you are turning into the Sheep many of you raise. Have a nice sheepish day.

Hi Paul#132 Glad to see you are actively trying to do something about this ridiculous ban. Are US Citizens allowed to sign as well? Perhaps another petition shoud be sent 'round to make the government (local and up) address the real problems of crime! My hubby is part of a law enforcement group that is addressing the causes and the solutions to juvenile crime and delinquency. Addressing the cause of the fire, not the smoke!

Man interesting the array and frequency of comments on this topic. However the expansion into politics and cultural difference offers some great insights. Mine are basically anecdotal.

Adam #10, your concern with the weird responses from the USA, what did you expect, if you have ever seen the movie "Stripes" where in a speech Bill Muarry's compares Americans to Ol' Yellar; a mutt, stating that "our ancestors were kicked out of every decent country in the world."

The British Empire has to take some of the credit for this. You could have sent over the free spirits and fun loving folk I observe in these comments, but NO! you sent us the Puritans and other religous fanatics adding in criminals and debtors. The latters' heirs apparently running our current administration - at least the military and the Treasury.

My ancestors where kicked out of Scotland in stages first around 1745, the clearings and a few other conflicts and every day events ensuing.

Pretty much all ended up in Glasgow, Kentucky (any guesses as to who(m) settled there?) and yes in football (American) I was a 'fighting Scottie from Glasgow High School.' Colors were Blue and White, wonder where they got that idea? Kilted band etc.
We are getting better in your football (due to UK coaches - via University).

This leads to the statement by
Anna #32. regarding the relations of Scotland and England. I was always taught that Scotland was not a separate island from England because England sucks!

I guess attitudes can be transfered over both space and time.

melanie #144, maybe sed... will give you the pukka translation in due course, but in the meantime and to paraphrase perhaps a just a little inappropriately, d'you know of the 50s trad jazz record "Who takes care of the caretaker's daughter while the caretaker's taking care?" ?

I am not your typical American, or at least I don't see myself as one. I try to be open to other cultures and countries. I apologise ahead of time if anything I say in this or other posts offends anyone, let me know why, and I'll learn.

I think that this sword ban is rediculous. I have 44 swords and knives all within about 10 feet of me, yet I am not about to go killing someone with one. Like other people have said, there are many other ways to kill people, and making an object illegal won't stop criminals from accessing it. That's part of what makes them criminals. "Almost 30 people are admitted to hospitals in Scotland every week with wounds from bladed instruments." I'd like to know exactly how many of those wounds were caused by an attacker, and how many were self-inflicted or accidental...

Will they ban:
1. Sharpened cricket bats
2. Steel pipes;
3. Propane/Butane/LPG as can be used in home made flame throwers;
4. Fishing spears propelled by gas or elastics;
5. Catapults (Both the personal and the siege variety);
6. Lead fishing weights; And,
7. Any of a multitude of other inprovised weapons.

What they should ban is:
A. Police who sit in cars or offices rather than administrating justice at the end of a baton;
B. Politicians who fail to recohnized that the UK was
safer when honest subjects of the Queen could, as Mr. Holmes Dr. Watson, slip a Webley in their pockets when going out and abroad.

As I mentioned above, I am all in favour of banning swords, but I think banning rockets and missiles especially in the Prestwick area should be a priority.

Swords tend to spend most of their lives unused - but rockets presently seem to have a high turnover. Are the lives the rockets take really so much cheaper then the ones the swords might take here?

My goodness what next--ban sticks and rocks. They can hurt people too. It is not the sword but the person using it for illegal purposes that must be addressed. If an individual has serious intent to harm another they will find a way to do it regardless of banned objects.

For anyone interested, yes, the Save Our Swords campaign and petition is now open for all to sign.

My thanks in advance for your support and interest.

Yours Very Truly,

Macdonald

Thanks for letting us know Paul, I was going to sign before I saw that it was only open to UK residents.

Hi DannyL #149, no, guess I missed that one, do I dare ask.....

Hello, I am an American that has a rifle and 4 swords. They hang on my bedroom wall as part of the decor and a link to my heritage in Sweden. Like it or not, in the US not having a gun is an invitation to a rude awakening. The criminals have them, and the situation is so far gone that the reality is that if you are not armed, at some point you will be a victim. I choose not to be a victim. I am trained in the use of my swords, and I consider it great exercise. I believe that the sole reason that the United States never has or will see a concentrated attack by a foreign enemy on our soil is not because of our military strength, but because there is an armed populace that will never allow such a force to occupy. I love SCotland as a rich land and full of potential, but just as has our land, you are being overrun by liberal politicians that seek to decide what is right for you. They don't believe that you as citizens have the self control to decide not to kill your mate with a sword. They are society's nannies,and they know better than you. Think on that, friends.

I disagree Jeremy, I think an offensive attack on the USA is extremely possible. The problem with it is that we are seperated from the rest of the world by miles of ocean. The difficulty in attacking the United states is getting here undetected, or coming through from Mexico or Canada. There have been two cases of an offensive attack on American soil. The first was I believe some time during the struggle for land around what is now Texas, and the second was in Alaska, I believe by the Japanese, but not sure. Although the isolation provided by the ocean works well as a defensive military advantage, it has put us at an extreme DISadvantage for staying in tune with the rest of the world's problems and concerns. I seem to remember hearing a news report just after 9/11 that the English were not all that sympathetic to the event, as they dealt with situations like that much more frequently (I could be wrong though) And while we deal with $3.00 a gallon National average for gas, I believe it's something like $6.00 a gallon in England after currency conversions. I don't know a single person who actually has a gun in their home for self-defense. A few of my friends father's are hunters, and have rifles or shotguns, but no handguns. My father has a license to carry a firearm, but does not own one. In terms of dealing with a public resistance, I doubt an attacking force would be stopped. But that is why we have a military.

Darn you Dan @ 158, I was heading for bed, but I just have to jump in on this one. Both you and Jeremy are right, you know. Certainly the potential exists, Dan. And if it happened, as Jeremy says, they would find a hard go of it. I once read an article on the French Resistence during Germany's occupation. Seems to me that somewhere around 5 million people lived in and around Paris at the time, however the French Resistance (can't decide whether it is spelled with an "a" or an "e", whatever) numbered no more than 1,500, who actually put the thorn in Germany's side. Low odds huh? Spent quite a bit of time in Chinon, myself, Tours, Paris, etc., love the country, good people, frightfully Socialist tho. Excuse the side trip, back to the subject. I dare say, an invasion from the major powers is less likely than being psychologically picked to pieces by terrorist activity, and bled dry economically by our own governments' attempt to deal with it. We live in interesting times, do we not?

Okay, so swords constitute 1% of blade crime. 30 Scots a month are hospitalized from blade crime. That's 360 a year, so you'd expect 3.6 people per year to be affected by swords. Oh, and attacking people is already illegal I take it? What proof do they have that these 3.6 sword victims wouldn't have been attacked with something else if swords had been outlawed?

My wife and I have considered moving to Scotland to retire. It's a nice idea, but I'd kind of like to live somewhere that had some personal liberties. Doesn't sound like there will be any left in Scotland by the time we're ready to move.

Dan, you must not know that many red necks.......LOL.....because trust me hun, their homes are weapons of mass destruction, if we were attacked, they would come out in droves....than a person never knows what is hidden in a vietnam vets home....you'd be shocked....if nothing else, we would not go down easy....not only are there homes with the guns, swords, and bows, but most of your basic science students have read and tried out a few things from a certain cookbook that was all the rage a few years back.....

If alcohol is the trouble, why not just ban it......

Oops, that's 30 a week. Okay, 1500 blade victims, which makes 15 people attacked by swords a year. I'll blame it on the late hour...

How many people are injured or grossly disfigured by bottles every year? How about banning bottles and drinks sold in bottles? What comes after the "Knife Act (Scotland)" which should include Machetes and Bowie knifes because of their blade length anyway and the proposed ban on Swords? A ban on screwdrivers or table forks (which, by the way, hurt more when causing injuries)?
Aren't there more important problems, i.e. unemployment, to be solved? Get folks off the streets and the'll have no time to commit blade crime.
(I always thought us Germany are crazy, but Scottish legislation seems to be on its way towards if not round the bend)

Let me add: German arms legislation does not forbid the sale of blunt arms (battle hammers, axes etc.) and knifes and swords over a certain length to people over the age of 18 and you do not require a license to sell or buy them.
It is unlawful to carry such arms (i.e. ready to "use") in public respectively at public functions unless for theatrical puropses or likewise functions or displays (traditional displays, dance, martial arts dems, ...).
If decide to carry them you do have to exercise immediate control over them, you have to be able to prevent that somebody takes it from you. (which effectively means "hand on hilt" at all times).
It works for us, less than one case of sword crime makes it into the papers every year.

Reading this article that my father had forwarded to me was interesting, to say the least. I can understand trying to protect yourselves, but at the same time, like some people have said in previous comments, the criminals will retaliate and not be honest and turn in their weapons, and will hord them, and still committ their crime and only the law abiding citizens will obey the law.

Here in Oregon, we have crimes involving all weapons, but to stay with the subject of knives, they are legal, as long as they're 6" or shorter and are not lock blades or double bladed.

And as far as polititions and their way of thinking goes for outlawing things and what things should be outlawed, our limbs on our bodies, such as fingers, toes, hands, feet and head can be used as weapons..........almost a scary thought the day they would stoop down to outlaw our limbs because they could be used as weapons and it just might cut down on assults/deaths. Almost feels like our freedoms and things that we fight for and earn to keep are being taken away, no matter where at you are in the world............seems too bogus to me.

Great day to all where ever you are!

Hello Tug @ 148

"This leads to the statement by
Anna #32. regarding the relations of Scotland and England. I was always taught that Scotland was not a separate island from England because England sucks!"

Thanks for the chuckle ................ I was always told that Americans had no sense of humour .......... you've proved them wrong!! lol

Mind you, having read some of these posts, which have appeared, overnight, you make the USA sound a very scary place. Does every household have a gun?

Do you think that is cause and effect? The criminal comes armed because they know the householder will be armed............. or am I being too naive? We don't have the same gun culture (yet!) in this country that you do, although there have been an increase in gun crimes in the last 10 years in the inner cities........... Birmingham, London, Nottingham spring to mind in England - I don't know about Scotland. A lot of these have been drug related and turf shootings ...... but it is still a worrying increase, nonetheless.

That's very interesting Janelle. Unfortunately the British model of enforcing a 6" knife law would inveitably result in the weekend streets being full of civil servants with maesuring tapes saying "I'm sorry sir/madam we can only permiy knives in denominative sizes delineated in centimetres: is that a 10cm or a 15cm? Please produce documentary evidence that your blade is within 3% tolerance of one of those nominals, at the police station of you choice within the next 5 days". Depending on how long you've been in Oregon you might think I'm joking. The right answer is to leave well alone.
btw 6ins = 15.24 cm so when they tightened-up the regulations that would still comfortably be within a 2% tolerance

don't worry melanie #156 it contained nothing more than good old-fashioned innuendo and some dodgy banjo/trombone figure.

it is clearly another “fudged” piece of legislation by the Government. How is the licensing of Scottish retailers going to stop people gaining access to swords? There is no license or restriction being implemented on the personal ownership of knifes / swords so, in effect, the legislation only achieves putting Scottish retailers at a disadvantage within the UK marketplace. Seeing as the Scottish Parliament has no powers over UK custom and Excise policy / law (or more importantly, powers over items entering Scotland from other parts of the UK) I fail to see how this would tackle a potential maniac buying a sword from an English company’s web site?

Indeed, the Ned is still perfectly entitled to purchase a sword / large knife from fellow ned as part of a “private purchase”!

I am also interested to see exactly have a shop is suppose to be able to tell if somebody is buying a sword for "legitimate" or ilegal purposes.

Frankly, this will achieve nothing positive at all.

Yes indeed, about time too. I think that it is sick that people use knives these days. Stories emerging about youths Skinning Cats and daring each other to stab each other. They should be told that this is dangerous and they are ruining the fun in it for every one else. I have also heard of youths flouting the ban by carrying Forks! What next?

What's next the Kilt the Bagpipe??

Hugh (79)
Sorry Hugh, I thought I was making myself clear when I said populations, but obviously not. I am fully aware the Germans and Soviets used weapons when they fought their wars, one would have to be a congenital idiot to think otherwise. I would think it was plain that I was not referring to the armed forces or secret police forces of those dictators but to their civilian populaces. They could not be trusted with weapons, this is obvious in any dictatorship.
Excuse the late post but I have just read your response.

tim....

that would be AGAIN.... as they WERE illegal in the past...

*Exception made in case of religious, cultural or sporting purposes*

so terrorists will be able to keep their swords as it is part of their so called religion?
what about us scots who have it as part of our culture?

this ban is ridiculous. guns and switchblades are what need to be banned.

more incompetance by jamieson with this stupid
law, it is a complete waste of time and money,
if i use my fishing knife to chop fruit will i be arrested for misuse of a non domestic knife, ha ha, any way there is no such thing as non domestic knives, a knife is a knife no matter how the idiots at the scottish executive try to dress things up, knives are not the problem,new labour are the problem with their soft sentencing policy,s for all criminals
no matter how violent they are,50% discount on jail terms she has handed out.
ps you can sell big sharp pointy kitchen knives without a licence ,so what is the point in jamiesons silly law.she should go now before she does scotland any more damage. vote them oot.

To DannyL of North Wales............I respect your comments and thank you for them. I've lived in Oregon all my life and no, police don't stop every tom, dick and harry to check to see if they are carrying a knife and if so, if it's legal or illegal. I was just using that as an example of the law(s) that we have in oregon and I'm going to tell you, no matter where in the world you go, there are good laws and very stupid laws. But my whole point is that it's stupid to just outright put a ban, because I believe that when something is outright banned, it's going to make the criminals, and law abiding citizens, retaliate and protest this new law that Scotland is imposing. Swords and scabers and such are known to be part of your heritage and the article doesn't state whether the 3% that are injured each week with them is done on purpose, accidental or what. And I'm sure there's better things and more important things that should be dealt with like hunger and poverty in Scotland (and all other countries in this world) and economy or whatever that needs to be dealt with before dealing with something that seems like has a very small impact on the populas.

Those are my thoughts and opinions and I think everybody should have a right to choose whether they'll own one or not, for whatever reasons besides religion or battle reenactments to carry a sword and of whether they'll use them properly. Swords and knives don't hurt/kill people, irresponsible and insane people kill people. I believe money and time by politicians would be better spent educating people regarding the objects, and also common sense is better spent on the matter as well.

@robert, message 175
But if I am not much mistaken you'd have to be 16 or older in order to legally purchase a pointed kitchen knife, isn't it?

oliver 177/ jamieson is raising the age to 18, big deal, this is just another piece of her nonsence
most retailers dont sell to under 18,s anyway.
if someone of any age wants a knife they will get one despite this silly law.

has everyone who cares signed #132 Paul's petition, put your money where your mouth is!
It's okay to moniter arms, but not take them away....even here(US), does it not seem that our freedoms are slowly being eroded. Financially, I believe it is done by taxation, and welfare support for the majority of lazy and scandalous people receiving it.

Right Rab #178 Laws are only for the ones who would obey them, and for the Police/Judges after the fact, after the crime has been comitted....so where does that leave the poor law abiding citizen who was the victim?
#121 Sed, no comment? We arm our home, because bad guys will always have guns...When the police response time can be over 10 minutes due to overwork and understaffing, and the badguys are in your house intent to do harm to you and yours, wouldn't you then wish you had something to defend yourself other than "Please don't hurt us"

Let me start by saying that I am an American and a 3rd. Sadly it could have been far worse. Had my great-grandfather not restarting the numbers game by changing the middle name he gave to my grandfather I could have wound up the 16th! Considering there are several names with numerical modifiers in my family, I have come to believe that most of my kin simply are horribly unimaginative. However a good friend and college classmate is the 5th of his line. So there are plenty of us who are saddled with silly and oft repeated family names in the United States.

Now to dispel certain myths about the United States, at least where I have lived. Crime in the United States is not extremely widespread. Sadly, violent crimes tend to be extremely concentrated in areas of low socio-economic status and high minority populations. It is a product of several factors including poor funding of education, extreme economic exploitation, a feeling of hopelessness among those populations, a high prevalence of drug abuse in those areas, and more.

Do I carry a weapon? Only if you consider the sgian dubh I often have in my sock a weapon. Considering that it can barely manage the tasks of a butter knife I wouldn't call it such.

Do I own a gun? Not at all.

Have I ever felt the need to defend myself from violence with physical force? No.

Have I ever been the victim of a violent crime? Only once, in Boston, but that was a hate crime committed against my person by a group of teenage thugs who disapproved of my reading a gay newspaper in public. They used their fists, not a weapon, and I did not resist at all.

I'm a pacifist and completely non-violent. None of my neighbors owns a gun. In fact, the only people I know who own a gun are hunters and they all believe in one very important rule - "Only point a gun at something if you intend to kill it, and never point a gun at another human being."

The America with which I am fa

melanie,180 /spot on ,we have a police response time of one minute to 1 day,this depends in which area you live.If someone breaks into my house
the law says that i have the right to run away
if possible, if not i can ask the crook,; will you go away please;.

Hello Phillip Curtis McKee III

How nice to read your post - I was starting to think that everywhere in the USA was full of gunslingers.

Do you think that the criminals arm themselves with guns because they know that the householders will be most likely to have a gun? Is there then a sort of viscious circle created?

Hi again, Melanie ......... perhaps you should move to Fairfax - it doesn't sound as violent as California. Do you really have to have your children trained to use a gun there? I really hope that never happens here...... take care..

what is your point?.

Hi Rab #182 Well, I hope you never have to find out how fast your 50 yard dash is!! Or, perhaps during your polite request for him to leave, you may assist him out the door with a Cricket bat or garden shovel! ; )
Hi Phillip #181, I don't mean to be rude, but I wish where I live could be as blissful. Yes, you are correct about the crimongenic (sp) factors. Although, the urban problem of crime and drugs is spreading, as is what happened in the case of where I live. It used to be rural ranches,farms, small town businessess....now the new State Prison and cheap welfare housing has brought the inmates' families to live near by, and all of their welfare dependent cousins, aunts and uncles. Do we go to the doctor when our body is full of cancer, or do we try to deal with it at an early stage? What I'm saying, as I've said earlier, the use of weapons in crime...don't do the supposed popular, knee jerk reaction and disarm the populace; the social cause of the crime/criminals needs to be addressed, starting with trying to reach families/children and change what can be paraphrased as a ghetto mentality.

Rab @ 184

Are you asking me?

Its really quite simple, or I'll try to keep it so. If it is standard procedure for a householder to keep a gun - is it more likely that the criminal will come armed? It's called cause and effect and it was really addressed to the American posters on here, not the Glaswegians.

Recently, within the past year or so, Massachusetts state law was changed so that if you are attacked in your house, and fear for your life, or the life of your family, you are lawfully able to attack the intruder. Previously, you had to attempt to escape before you could defend yourself, and if you could get away, you could do nothing about your family, only call the authorities. In Texas, I believe the law allows ANYONE to conceal a firearm without a license. Different states have different interpretations of "The Right to Bear Arms". But this article isn't about guns, it's about swords and knives. Deadly only in the wrong hands. So use the law to dissuade people from commiting crimes, by increasing punishments and fines.

Hi Anna#183 no we're all not gunslingers...my children learned to handle firearms strictily to ensure safety because we do have them in the house, much like you would train an older child to handle a carpenter's electric powered nail gun should he want to help da build a garden shed. We have firearms for both sport and protection, it is, yes an American right, so I want to exercise it lest it should be taken from me. Do I sling one on my hip? No...although I think Texas is right to allow it,...I do agree, an armed society is a polite society. Criminals do not arm themselves because they think homeowners have guns; criminals for the most part are cowards (I worked in a custody facility for ten years); an armed homeowner is always a deterrant! There are places in the US where you can still leave doors unlocked, it is our hope to be retiring there soon, and our children pursuing careers in the new area! By the way, we do plan a tour and visit to family (Eng, Sco, Ire), have the brussel sprouts on, I'll bring the chili!

Hi Dan #187 Punishments and fines only work so much. Much of the ghetto mentality exists, in that it is considered "a right of passage" to do jail time, starting with the youngsters (example, incarcerated 9 year old for house robbery, he was assisting his older brother and other "homies"; he was very proud to be at this youth detention facility) The less people self-regulate with moral, ethical conduct, the more yes, laws and deterrants there needs to be, but are we, the law-abiding citizens going allow the government to legislate our freedoms away?? Crime is a social issue not a choice of weapon issue!

Most criminals avoid going into houses if there is even a hint that the homeowner may be armed, for they are cowards at heart. If you go to cities and states that have restricted gun laws in the USA you will find violent crimes, gun and other, on the increase (unless you live in gated communities or a neighborhood consisting of high income individuals which the local politicians do not want to offend hence giving extra police patrols by diminishing them in the areas that direly needs them). Though locations with very open gun laws you will find crime rates very low. Look here in the UK when once guns were banned or restricted violent crimes climbed and climbed. Criminals prey on the weak, for as I said they are cowards through and through. Also, I have noticed that those who are high profile anti-gun advocates normally have a bodyguard(s), who is/are ARMED. Hypocrisy is the name of the game for those who promote banning this and that, they will take it from you but by hell and high water they shall keep theirs...for they either have money or political clout to do it.

Melanie CA, I think we just had a mind meld. lol

Hi Mark #191, here! here! One of our own inglorious lady Senators is all for gun control and giving hard working people's tax dollars to the leeches....she travels with....an Armed escort, AND, she has a license to carry a concealed weapon!

Dan #187, there are even states that allow open carry. Everyone one thinks that he USA is still the Wild West and even the Wild West was not as it has portrayed in books and movies. Gunfights in the middle of the street were a rarity, most killings were done from ambush and normally with a rifle.

Melanie, would that be someone with either the initials D.F. or B.B?

hi Mark, well, (the following said with an American southern accent....) I do declare, you are insightful!

; o )

Thanks to those who replied about the US 'right to bear arms'. It obviously differs from state to state. Are there any states where firearms are banned?

Melanie - I'm still waiting for the chilli gumbo recipe, I'm sure you don't want the brussel sprouts one!!

Hi Anna, do you have a neutral web address, or such, I think we're not supposed to give out personal info...the Chile and Gumbo recipes are too much to post here. I do have M's e-mail, maybe he can be the intercessory as he IS the one that started all this! ; )

Anna,
Unless the US Constitution, which would take not only passing the House of Representaives and Senate but for two-thirds of the states to ratify the change/abolishment of the Second Amendment, and many state constitutions have the "right to bear arms" in their charter. Actually many states' constitutions are even more concise about the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms than the US Constitution. Remember if they start abolishing one constitutional right others would be easier to abolish the next time.

Thanks for that Mike, is that Ramsey, Cambs btw? Or are you in the US?

You're probably right - Melanie - best not - I'm sure there must be some recipe sites I can check out on the web.

Janelle #176. I guessed you were a lifelong resident of 'over-there' but didn't want to assume it. In fact I am broadly in agreement with you in principle - but it's apparent that you don't have a first-hand of the goons that think (incresingly coreectly I fear) that they run UK plc. They really are that stupid - and dangerous. It's all about LipDervice to addressing the issues accompanied by a 'men-in-suits' approach to liquidising good public intent along with the bad with pendantic administration. A sort of non-monetary versiom of PC compensation culture with a very limey accent.

Hi DannyL #200 ;)

Who takes care of the caretaker's daughter
While the caretaker's busy taking care?
Gee, oh gosh, oh gee; that's what worries me.
I know that the caretaker must take care
And while he's taking care, she's alone somewhere.
Who takes care of the caretaker's daughter
While the caretaker's busy taking care?

A sword ban won't solve knife crime alone but I've no heard anyone claim this. It will restrict access to what are, let's not forget, weapons designed unambiguously for combat, not peeling potatoes or cutting cables in the home. Yes someone intent on harming may use a kitchen knife as they're "easier" to get - but why are people still getting killed, maimed and threatened with samurai swords now? Banning kitchen knives would punish the law-abiding majority and be entirely disproportionate. But banning swords, but allowing people who show they've a proper reason to have them, is a proportionate response to knife crime in parts of Scotland. Jail terms for carrying knives are also going up but education is important. There's no single solution, but something must be done.

Eric, the problems here are that the executive has failed to adequately define a sword, the proposed legislation on the face of it sounds so full of holes as to uneforceable, and finally not even the police were particularly in favour of what is being proposed.

For example, the swords I use for re-enacting and historical fencing are blunt. What degree of bluntness is appropriate? An edge 1mm thick? 3mm thick?
Then there is the material. The cheap wallhnagers that are featured in the photo at the top of this page are usually the kind of weapons that neds like to buy, because they are cheap yet look fancy. But they are not made to withstand much use at all, and will break if you are not careful with them.

Moreover, how do you tell who has a proper reason for having a sword? I can easily see "The PIlton Medieval Society" being formed. Unless you go into complex bureacracy and police vetting, how are you going to prevent peopel setting up spurious societies in order to purchase swords?

Let alone the reselling of swords. It appears that this bill will not be able to do anything about private transactions. Or the internet. Or buying them in England and bringing them back over the border. A law with this many holes in it is totally ineffectual and essentially a waste of time.

Guthrie, you say a ban is unenforceable and police were not in favour. Police were actually supporting stricter controls on TV the other day.
If violent neds are so determined to buy swords that they set up spurious historical groups, it kind of underlines the need for restrictions. More details are needed, but the story above says it will be an crime to give false info to try and buy a sword.
No system is perfect. But as long as people are being attacked with swords - weapons that anyone can start trading in, selling them to anyone who wants one, no questions asked - is it right for people to simply stick their heads in the sand, saying this is a waste of time or an infringement of rights? This can only be part of a solution, yes, but listen to those who see knife and sword crime first hand – like the police or the surgeon in the story above.

re # 132: hello, Macdonald, and how are you finding the States?
How many signatures are necessary for the Executive to even notice?

There are 15 articles; I've read them all. Curiously, teh 1st two deal with the same incident. An incident that involved the ...ahh, shall we say victim's sexual involvement with a 15 year old girl.
Cannot help but wonder if her brothers /cousins and a couple of their buddies taught the fellow a lesson.

Then there is the crossbow incident. How anyone reckons a crossbow bolt as congruent with a hunting knife, I am at a loss to understand. but then, some of the 'knives' used in the newspaper pictures were of the cheapest sort and worst quality. For the shock value, I imagine.

Also, there's an article asking for "concerned citizens" to to anonymously denounce (can you say Reign of Terror?) anyone they "suspect" of carrying a knife so that that suspect (suspected of what precisely??) may be arested, jailed and his /her /its knife confiscated --a political word for "took."
That is just because the person may *have* a knife. Not that the person ..oops, 'suspect' *used* the knife.

There was a "raid" conducted by one man. A raid you say? A raid.
Where I am from --which is where everyone else is from --raids are generally conducted by at least several persons. Sometimes they have longboats. In the US, they have horses and six-guns. A raid. Indeed.
Not that I do not believe for one minute that the salesclerk was terrified and probably should have smacked the nitwit upside the head --because you see, she had the presence of mind to REFUSE this man's request to go into the shop's basement.
Smart girl. Smarter yet if she'd sprayed some hair spray in his eyes.

Then there are the articles covering knife-carry in school. In the usual, no one needs a penknife in school. However, the article did state that some other hom

Thre is more. If the OJ Simpson glove were not enough, now the police have Kevlar gloves that can be used to detect metal on the body. Very nice idea, however, teh pociceperson wearing the gloves must run his /her /its fingers or palms over the "suspect" to set of the vibration mechanism (a magnet, duh) in the wrist of the glove.
As a female, I object to anyone running their fingertips or palms over me and if I do not object, they will know this sans a newspaper comment.

At last, the "licensing" articles make plain what the case truly is.

Why, it's about money. The powers that be (and ought to be made to live on what the rest of us do) want to *LICENSE* knife, sword and blade makers as well as retailers of same.

Taxes and licenses and probably special dispensation (although what civilized and thinking body would be a party to this is not imaginable) just to sell an axe.

An axe that is going to cost a great deal more now that all the Good People (or perhaps they are treeless) turned theirs in during the amnesty. The retailer has to firstly license and bond him (her and it, yes, them too) self, then pay an annual re-up for this. Plus the regular, regulated --and costly--goverment "inspections" that are likely to a part of the anti-blade culture /movemnet /political arena /political posturing, etc.
Oh fill it in yourselves...

I am rather curious however, as to precisely *how* these almost-13,000 Amnesty Blades were 'destroyed' and where. By whom. It takes a great deal of heat to melt steel (thankee, Andrew C, for that nifty furnace) and does not address the blades made from cobalt-derivatives.

Cobalt. There's something new the "reporters" can run a whole 'nother series of special reports on and not get that right, either.

But the heroine is the salesclerk; she had the presence of mind to REFUSE the "raider" and yell at him. He promptly ran

Guthrie, you said:

"As for all the American posters, yes, we welcome your general support, but could you please keep it down. Ranting on about rights and guns and stuff doesnt work over here."

And that is why you will lose your battle. That is the reason that our Scottish (and various other) ancestors came to the colonies, and finally quit the Crown in disgust.

"Rights" matter, including the right to what we like to call (over here) "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Protecting one's life, family, home and property is a RIGHT. Protecting one's interests and past-times (including collecting or even --gasp!--using) swords, knives, and other archaic devices, is also a RIGHT. But if you don't FIGHT for your RIGHT, you will LOSE it.

We support you in your struggle, and noble traditions. But don't be averse to taking some friendly advice from some long-lost relatives from across the pond, because if we didn't care about what we see coming for you, we probably wouldn't say a word.

ERic, I did somewhat overstate my case. I was reminded on Wednesday by a friend who is dealing more in depth with this, that the police responses to the consultation were kind of in favour of restrictions on sales.
Of course on the other hand, my dad, a now retired policeman with 30 years experience doesnt see any need for it all.
I think we can safely agree that the police would agree to a total ban on all knives if they felt it would mean less knives around being used on their officers, or on the public. The problem being that since the only stats I have seen so far suggest that swords are used in from 1 to 3% of attacks with a sharp instrument, the whole set up is going to be a waste of time. What we are dealing with here are people who will carry an offensive weapon for "defence", and often kill someone without meaning to, and people who like to pose with objects with some cachet, and also use them to attack enemies. Obviously, these are not the sort of people to actually obey the law in the first place, and given that they would likely use a sword for illegal purposes in the first place, do you really think they will balk at giving false details?
Also, you have not addressed the complexities of cross border sales, internet sales, enforcement etc etc. We shall have to wait and see how the proposed legislation covers these issues, suffice it to say, myself and many other reckon that it will make no difference at all. Note also that private sales are still permitted, presumably because policing them would be impossible.

As for the blades from the amnesty, they'll be chucked ina scarp melting furnace I expect. Do you really think that many of them contain any kind of expensive alloy? No, most are kitchen knives, old knives, bayonets, machetes, etc.

Ummm, William, we could go into an entertaining political discussion, but you might like to consider exactly what battle you think we are fighting here.
Plus, in

ERic, I did somewhat overstate my case. I was reminded on Wednesday by a friend who is dealing more in depth with this, that the police responses to the consultation were kind of in favour of restrictions on sales.
Of course on the other hand, my dad, a now retired policeman with 30 years experience doesnt see any need for it all.
I think we can safely agree that the police would agree to a total ban on all knives if they felt it would mean less knives around being used on their officers, or on the public. The problem being that since the only stats I have seen so far suggest that swords are used in from 1 to 3% of attacks with a sharp instrument, the whole set up is going to be a waste of time. What we are dealing with here are people who will carry an offensive weapon for "defence", and often kill someone without meaning to, and people who like to pose with objects with some cachet, and also use them to attack enemies. Obviously, these are not the sort of people to actually obey the law in the first place, and given that they would likely use a sword for illegal purposes in the first place, do you really think they will balk at giving false details?
Also, you have not addressed the complexities of cross border sales, internet sales, enforcement etc etc. We shall have to wait and see how the proposed legislation covers these issues, suffice it to say, myself and many other reckon that it will make no difference at all. Note also that private sales are still permitted, presumably because policing them would be impossible.

As for the blades from the amnesty, they'll be chucked ina scarp melting furnace I expect. Do you really think that many of them contain any kind of expensive alloy? No, most are kitchen knives, old knives, bayonets, machetes, etc.

[somewhat unpleasant comments to William replaced]
William, its not just a matter of rights. Remember that this is a different country. We are also dealing wit

Stupid internet stuff- double post. Sorry about that.

It is amazing what free people are willing to give up in the false hope that they will be safe. Chickens were once free creatures. They survived successfully, and without "keepers", for millions of years. But chickens are indeed safer now, under the care of their masters. But they spend their lives with heads bowed, picking at the leftovers of others on the ground, at the fickle beck and call of their masters , at least until their masters decide they want chicken for dinner. The chicken of course has by now lost his spurs as well as his will to fight. I take pride in being of Scottish stock. But Scotland seems to have lost touch with its once great and independent spirit. Scots (and others under the domain of the EU) need to unbow their heads, and stop being so cowardly.

The idea that taking away a sword from someone will somehow protect people is not so absurd because of its intent, for its intent is in the end just to "take away". It is sad because those people who would suggest and enforce such a thing don't give hoot for personal liberties, and see evryone as chicken to be kept in a coop, contolled and docile.

Good God, I guess they want you to have NO tie with your history. Why not ban idiots? Ooops, there wouldn't be anyone left to come up with such stupid ideas as laws like this!

Don't forget to ban Star Wars light sabres too!! They are daaaaaangerous!

Ban baseball bats, cricket wickets and croquet mallets too. Golf clubs should also go. Very dangerous. Rolled up newspapers, can openers and gardening implements have also killed people. Large Rocks are bad too.
And while we're at it...I think it wise to ban the jawbones of all oxen, since it has been reported in certain sources as being the weapon that Cain used to kill Abel.
Has civilized society completely lost it's collective "mind"? I can't wait until the Mother Ship comes back to get me.