I think the world is going mad

Angus, I think the world has gone mad. The world without pipes. Never.

Gentlemen,
Welcome to the new world where Quangos and people with 'nothing' jobs, cause the biggest furore in trying (and succeeding) to keep the onus from the democratic man on how 'he' wants to lead 'his' life.
I notice in the article that the chanter has one of the highest decibel counts mentioned. Does this mean that they will take away the music instruction from our children now?
OOps! sorry, the councils are already cutting back on our childrens' music classes because of the cost of vocational teachers. Silly me, I should have known that something like this was coming sometime!

What's next? Visitors to the Edinburgh Tattoo must wear these little yellow earprotectors?

One of the reasons I left Scotland and the UK as the country is being controlled by more and more do gooders and know betters.

Don't swear, be offensive or post comments that break the law.

The rules rob me of my say on this matter!!**

I have SO many points to make on this article but having consulted at length with the appropriate health and safety experts the possibility of RSI from over use of my keyboard prevents me from making them public

...and just when will the 150dB rock concerts be banned or limited to 6 minutes? Or a legal limit is set to the volume that personal stereos or walkman's are played at?? This is just madness! Surely the Pipers themselves must be allowed some say in whether they play or not and for how long. And how dare anyone deprive us of the skirl?

It`s another example of the nanny state going mad again.

Speaking as A QHSE (Quality, Health Safety and Environmental) Enginner for the Oil and Gas the health and safety inspectors are only following the guidelines set out by the HSE.

Personally, I think this is a step too far, however the lads playing the bagpipes and other other musical insturment should be protecting their hearing as it could lead to problems in future life.

There is such a thing as electronic bagpipes that could be used for practise, thus elemanting these time limits and allolwignpractise to contnuie.

Sorry Darren, but you expose the problem." only following guidelines set out by the HSE". Some individual in a fairytale existence dreams up a regulation, which becomes law with no debate, and others then enforce senseless regulations because they get paid to do so. Most of this rubbish comes from Brussels, who are supposed to represent member states' interests, rather than oppress them.

Hmmmm ... yet more trivial and futile regulations generated at the UK taxpayer's expense, aiding the UK's steady drift towards bureaucratic strangulation and terminal Third-World-style confusion and dereliction. (4) and (6) above probably did the right thing by voting with their feet.

On the other hand - one good working definition of a gentleman is 'he's a guy who can play the bagpipes, but doesn't'. If I was facing the Scots in battle, the pipers would be the first ones to get the chop!

Tootle pip!

Oh good grief. How dare the Army protect the soldiers from the danger of hearing problems in later life?

I shall lobby Edinburgh Council on Monday to insist that all involved in road repairs be sripped of their ear defenders when using pneumatic drills.

It's health and safety gone mad!

Even as a health and safety inspector I think this is mad there is nothing wrong with the pipes and drums, if this is to be the case then its high time that they so called pop groups were targeted as well as they make a dame site more noise that the pipes and drums will ever make along with people who ware MP3 players night clubs etc as they will damage your hearing quicker than anything.

Aye right!

"Ah'm no fighting, that bad man is shouting at me!"

Do you know the racket those guns make?

If you don't want loud noises why would you be in the army in the first place?

What kind of soldiers are these HSE guys wanting us to train?
"Don't do that it's dirty, here mummy will look after you."

Next thing you know servicewomen will be wanting compensation for getting themselves pregnant.

What is the definition of a gentleman?

Someone who can play the pipes but refrains from doing so.

I cannot put into words my utter contempt for this rule/law. I have really tried but nothing seems strong enough!

Ah well, I guess it will be 'forward the Scots, follow the Penny Whistle!'

why dont the health and safety stick their heids up their jacksie if the sound is too loud for them.
where is this pc madness going to stop?.

I agree with Rab. All the do gooders need to spend more of there time sorting out other more important issues like litter on the streets and cleaner water and helping the poor. Thats a bigger H&S issue than bag pipes.
Im sick of these people telling us what we can and can,t do. Its time we told them to get stuffed.

what next have us scots to put up with and pipers throughout the world.This music stirs the hearts of all and there is nothing more stirring than the sounds of the pipes and drums.So you who dont aggree you can lump it.

To Darren/Dundee: I actually WORKED in the Oil and Gas Industry so as a QHSE I fully expect you to issue useless crap from both ends – you didn’t let me down. The sooner we get rid of the nanny state and put the likes of you and the rest of the parasites back to work the better.
As a Scot I love the sound of the pipes – Blaw away lads!

Political correctness gone mad.

These government drones have little else to do but think up insane rules like this ,when they should be addressing more serious health problems. I don't know what the cost will be for this, but I'm sure the money could be better spent elsewhere.

For Robert, (No 6) Auckland. Robert you are so right. Unfortunately the term you use (DO GOODERS) appplies to virtually every area of life today. Reality has gone out the window but if you look at it realistically, we're to blame. We accept these stupid antics from Politicians and other governing bodies instead of bringing them down through the ballot box and introducing real people to positions of power. I'm not talking about trendy lefties or that type of person but people prepared to ensure that common sense is most important. This situation with the Pipes....someone has actually sat in an office, spent ages thinking about this, employed scientists, produced a paper on it..AND WE THE TAX PAYER HAS PAID THEM. We must be stupid.

What complete and utter rot! Have these people nothing better to do? Why not strip them of their jobs, and send the slaries saved to the starving third world countries. The folks there would gladly sit and listen to the pipes if they had clean water and something in their bellies.

this is total nonsense how can pipes be tuned with earplugs in.24 minutes a day practise is completly a waste of time hearing the pipes makes you grow six inches in height.these so called experts have to live in the real world they are a complete joke

I wish to remain anonymous as I have worked for the MOD. Another big waste of money is the Army Primary Health Care Service.Empire building Health Professionals doing desk work and carrying out projects: many of whom are Majors and Captains Before, this work was carried out by Retired Oficers and Clerks, now they are duplicating the PCT's. Interestingly if you work for more than one APHC the Policies differ.!!!
Prehaps in the future Tuba Players will have to wear ear defenders when playing. No more marching Bands as they may trip up.Absolute Rubbish. My Grandfathers and Great Grandfather were Pipe Majors, in the Indian Mutiny , Crimea and recent wars, they never missed out when asked if they would like a Dram!!.

Six minutes maximum of tuning up in the toilets, hence a maximum of another 9 minutes playing inside. So much for the great tradition of the playing of the piobaireachd and sets at Mess dinners. Stop somewhere through the piobaireach after an alarm signals time-up? Ludicrous.

Does the Army spokeswoman really believe that rubbish she uttered?

Oh. My. Giddy. Aunt.

This country has been cotton-wooled to death .. this must be the dying throes of common sense.

This is clearly a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water, but that said I must say that those who are from my generation (geezer!) who served in the military do not hear very well, thanks to many forms of noise exposure. I sort of expect the problem at my age, but it's tragic to see bad hearing loss in those still in service.

Absolute madness. If these conditions are implemented we may as well just do away with bagpipes in the military. This is obviously the work of some faceless jerk in a London office who came up with this.

Yet another attack on Scottishness. Here's the rub though, bagpipes are popular in the USA and will remain so. I left Britain because I was angry at the state of things in the UK and the demise of our Scottish culture, that even to celebrate things like Christmas was somehow now considered an outrage and offensive to some, well what next?

First the Regiments, now even their bagpipes. High-time Scotland decided to go it alone and stop those Southern PC whimps from making more and more ridiculous legilsation. NEW LABOUR NEW BS.

I am a piper and a medical officer. So I do know what I am talking about. The article is correct in its content. Mant pipers now wear ear plugs. With out them your ears are ringing for days afterwards. Part of the problem is that over the years pipers and drumers have sought to make their instuments have more volume. A difference can be made by using quieter reeds and wooden chanters but the volume produced is still damaging to the ear. A damage that will not recover.
I have a friend who also played in the Scots Dragoon Guards who now can no longer play and is profoundly deaf. The pipes shpuld be palyed out side where the sound has a chance to disperse.

Yes it is nonsense except.............

Tut tut the Scotsman! Sensationalist reporting. You are a little out of proportion - the time recommendations are for unprotected playing. The story does make the point that the report does recommend ear protection is an option.

In many civilian pipe bands you can see that the left ear of many players (the one closest to their drones) is stopped VOLUNTARILY with an ear protector. Many sitting at the back row of major symphony orchestras wear ear protection.

No one legislates the civilian pipe bands - those people choose to protect their hearing rather than risk a problem in the future.

Nanny state? It is a matter of style. Educate and risk fewer problems in later life as 32 Philip admits to would seem a fair approach. How many occupational injuries that were jokingly accepted in the past have disappeared because of training and safety equipment.

At least in the UK if you are trained in a Health and Safety matter and then go against training - you bear responsiblity. Here in the USA It doesn't matter if you train your staff. If they then go against training - the employer is still responsible. Sheesh! That really is a case of the nanny state.

A 60p ear protector seems a small price for a life of better hearing - and it just might save that piper/soldier's life one day when he hears the warning shout from a collegue who sees a danger first.....

I see that our government is not the only one that is trying to protect us from ourselves. Rubbish!
I love the pipes and plan to have a piper play at my funeral. If anyone thinks the music are too loud, they can just go far, far away!

Words fail me here. Are we no longer considered bright enough to use our own commonsense but have to be 'pc'ed to death?....and paying sweetly for it! Get rid of all politicians I say!..and I'll come home and be your benevolent dictator and there will be no more of this nonsense...and a lot less over-inflated egos to pay!!..............and you can all have Christmas back......even though I am not a Christian!
Idiotic bureaucratic lunatics with FAR too much time on their hands!!!

Bag Pipes a noise?

Who is the "Richard Cranium" that came up with that idea?.
Has he nothing better to do with his time?.
How dare he!.

This makes me want to promote the Gaelic culture even more, be it Gaelic language, Gaelic song, piping, harp-playing, dancing both Highland and Scottish country and the step dancing etc. There is too much that is magnificent in Gaelic culture by way of song, music and poetry, I speak and sing in both Irish and Scottish Gaelic and I will not sit still and allow the erosion and passing away of all these things while I live.
Today, I'll put a Gaelic sticker on my car and wear a Gaelic T-shirt.
In a world where English language dominates everything, the Gaelic culture and language still flickers as a small but beautiful flame I will be damned if I let that flame be snuffed out,

suas leis a' phiob, suas le canan nan Gael.

Up with the pipes, up with language of the Gaels.

Murchadh (Morgan)

I think that this is completely nuts, I have listened to groups of pipers playing the bagpipes in a room that was about 30ft by 20ft. It was the most beautiful thing that I had heard, was it loud? Yes! But the bagpipes have been played in Scotland for generations reaching back for well over 500yrs, never have I heard of a piper going deaf because of playing the pipes. My own father was a piper in the army and used to play the pipes while walking round the walls of Stirling Castle, his hearing wasn't and isnt affected by playing them.

If the madness of the people who wrote this report is followed and what is suggested comes to pass, then there will be a decided decrease in excellent pipe playing throughout Scotland.
Also if the military do issue ear protection for the pipers, how do the pipers tell if they are playing the tune properly and how will they be able to tell if the pipes they are playing with need to be altered?

If the MoD think that they need to do this, then maybe they should recommend that the general public be given ear protection for the following too;

Having a newborn/young child - All the parents out there will agree that a child screaming its eyes out is a major source of madening sound, as the sound can and does drive some people to serious distraction.
Music Concerts - as the article pointed out rock music can reach 150Db so according to the people who issued the report this would be seriously dangerous to our hearing as these concerts can last several hours.
Living nearby airports - Also for similar reasons to the music concerts.

Maybe they should see about doing some of the following too;

Putting volume limiters on Entertainment Equipment.
Making vehicles which are designed to keep the engines quiet, this would include race cars/bikes.
Creating silent construction tools which produce no sound.
Either silence or eliminate all wildlife that creates noise over a set level.
Make

correction
suas le canan nan Gaidheal (up with language of the Gaels)
Murchadh

I played bass and tenor drums for years, and just before i left for Australia I played in the massed pipes and drums, marching from the castle to Holyrood Palace in 1961 then played for the Queen. If marching down the Royal Mile in the drum corps doesnt send you deaf nothing will! and I still can hear perfectly and I'm 72!

Don't these idiots understand, that when in battle, the 'sound of the Great Pipes' stirs one to greater effort. Don't they know how the hairs on one's neck rises at the sound of the haunting lament, 'Flowers of the Forest', or 'Boy Blue'. Don't they know the meaning of 'Scotland the Brave'; don't they know the pure musical pleasure of 'Highland Cathedral', 'The Black Bear', and 'Cock o' the North'?
I don't think so!! Send them South of the border! Mind you, I don't want them here either!

And to think I was so dense as to believe that only North American political idiots were suffering from terminal stupidity, but you do have Geoff Hoon also don't you? So when do the Rolling Stones get muzzled, or car audio systems muffled? Quickly now, I heard a sheep bleat. Go put a silencer on it.
Otherwise, the rules also prevent me from saying further, other than my disgust is boundless. May the world's pipers rise up and charge the PC brainless bozos.

This is totally crazy. Why protect try to protect the hearing of a soldier that will moree than likely be killed in Iraq or Afganistan, Scottish regiments, whoops sorry battalions are being sent out there more than any other !!!!

Yet another case of the British Government trying to crush the Scottish Nation like they did after 1746. The quicker we gain independance the better.

Are you saying that listening to the pipes is a 'near deaf' experience?

I wouldn't trade a single decibel for having played at the Edinburgh Tattoo a few years ago.

Sometimes the sound of bagpipes can come in handy, too. I try have a pipe band CD at the ready in my car in case I need to drown out the noise of some apparently near deaf motorist driving to the noise of rap.

Take the time to read the link at the bottom of the page. ear 3 protects your ears. That will explain how hearing loss works.
The Army has an obligation of care to its soldiers on many differenta levels.
Once a soldier is deaf he is discharged from the army.
Hearing protection is manditory on the ranges and tank parks.
I say again pipes are best heard out side. If not outside then protect your ears.
Many say how much they enjoy the sound of the pipes and rightly so but you can't enjoy any music if you are deaf.
This is also an issue in orchestras and militery bands. So it's not pick on pipes week.

I served in the artillery as a gunner, and can inform anyone that although it's loud being a few feet from the muzzle of an artillery piece, a rock concert is far worse, deafening one for days afterwards. My father commanded a battery of 25-pounder guns in WWII, and my grandfather served with the Black Watch for 32 years, and none of us suffered any noticeable hearing loss.
You must stand up to these bureaucrats, or it will only encourage them to encroach even further on the freedoms that were won over centuries of struggle. Are Scots and Britons to become nations of sheep? I certainly hope not!

After that news I think I'll have a RUM.

AFTER READING THE ARTICLE I HAVE NEVER
HEARD SUCH "VERBAL DIARRHOEA" IN MY LIFE.
THIS MUST BE AN ENGLISH REPORT.

A big thank you to all of you! What an entertaining read for a Sunday morn!

...I'll join you for that rum if you don't mind ;-)

What a sad state of affairs! One must look at the source and motive for such a study and then it becomes clear. This is not really about hearing protection but about budget protection. Tsk! Tsk!

Darren, from your comment (no.12) you're obviously not a piper. Electronic bagpipes are not a suitable substitute for practice on the real thing.
I'm an Army Piper here in Canada, AND I'm trained as a Health and Safety officer for the fire service. I agree that we could and probably should wear hearing protection, but that which is available prevents us from correctly tuning our pipes by blocking some but not all frequencies.
As for the remark "they're only following guidelines...", that sound awfully like "I was only following orders"; that ceased to be a viable defense at the Nuremburg trials following the 39-45 war.
By all means, there should be guidelines set for our protection, but they must be tempered with common sense. Unless these H&S inspectors are experienced pipers or drummers, or willing to listen to the recommendations of pipers and drummers, they are not qualified to place restrictions on the trade.

These HSE people are the leech-like tentacles of an increasingly intrusive and parasitic state - the natural refuge of the talentless who resent their more creative and industrious brethren. Unfortunately while Europeans in general, and Scots in particular, insist on voting "politically correct", socialist-statist politicians into power, this sort of crap will just get worse.

When I view our politicians and bureaucracy in a country historically renowned for its spirit of combative, creative independence it makes my toes curl up in shame.

Why all the fuss and palaver? They are only GUIDELINES! Who pays any attention to those? Guidelines about diet and exercise are regularly ignored by people in droves and I expect the guidelines for when, where, and how long a piper may practice/play his instrument will be shoved down the nearest latrine as well.

I thought:
1) California was the leader of the Nanny State; then
2) That the US as a whole was in the lead; but now...

Clearly the UK is in the lead, followed ever so closely by Ireland.

Shame on all of us for tolerating this nonsense

Thank God; when are they also going to ban the bagpipes?

Oh what next - is the no end to the kind of rubbish that is being inflicted on us. and it's not only the sassenachs to blame. Politicians and bureacrats of what ever their native heath are equaly to blame.
Whoever thought this up shouild be compelled to watch the history o' piping in war

Oh what next - is the no end to the kind of rubbish that is being inflicted on us. and it's not only the sassenachs to blame. Politicians and bureacrats of what ever their native heath are equaly to blame.
Whoever thought this up shouild be compelled to watch the history o' piping in war

Army experts! They abolish the Black Watch and bring in Her Majesty's Health and Safety Regiment. That'll put the wind up the enemy now the pipes can't.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jeffrey:

The sound of The Black Watch at high volume,all car windows open,is a gift from heaven in the rap
infested north suburbs of Paris.

Never heard such "HAVERS" in my life - BUT, its not really surprising, Health, Safety Environment (HSE) has deveolped its own huge industry, backed by politicians with usually no personal experience of whatever subject is addressed. Those backing such daft measures look suspiciously like those who also make their maoney out of HSE measuires (most of which are sheer bureaucracy)

What rubbish!! what next?? ban thunder and lightning?? KEEP PIPING PIPERS all over the world.

For George in Montrose, #30: It's not 6 minutes maximum tuning up in the toilets, it's six minutes masimum PLAYING, PERIOD, in the toilets!! That means you have to be all tuned up before you go into the toilet. And pipes are almost as notorious as harps for becoming un-tuned if you look at them cross-eyed! So, so much for any playing in the toilets. As a violist, having practiced in the toilets at the University of Exeter years ago, I can attest that they (tiled toilets in general, Exeter's in particular) have fantastic acoustics, and completely understand why the pipers practice in them. Those with plaster walls just don't sound right, while as for those in the fancy hotels........ It's obvious that no-one from the MoD H&S people ever really bothered to go and talk to pipers and drummers, both currently serving and retired. They would have gotten an earful, that's for sure.

Let's hear it for the pipers!!

Better yet, let's HEAR the pipers!!!!!!!

Can I join y'all for that rum?

Is this, along with the execution of Scots regiments, a part of the English campaign against Scotland?

As a retired member of the Canadian Black Watch I wonder if the Cpl of my Regiment who was killed in action in while on overseas duty Saturday will resent the playing of The Flowers of the Forest. The Scottish Regiments will live forever while the Pipes and Drums play.

Christopher (#13) says: Most of this rubbish comes from Brussels, who are supposed to represent member states' interests, rather than oppress them.

You almost got it, but that last part suggests you missed the big picture. Brussels is indeed there to protect its member states interests - to be clear, its member STATES. The interests of the residents (I will not call them citizens, that word is reserved for free people) is not the objective. A rule like this precludes the pipers from sueing over hearing damage in the future. Thus the STATE is protected from the PEOPLE. Which is the highest goal of all bureaucracies (self preservation).

The EU is the largest voluntary transfer of power from the people to a government in history. As your freedom rapidly slips away, you can take heart that you are getting exactly what you voted for. Nothing was hidden.

Or you can decide that it was a bad idea (it is mostly French, after all), and work toward getting back out before it is too late.

Just remember, freedom is not free. If you desire it, you will have to give up the nanny state. Are you willing to accept the personal responsibility that comes with freedom?

My area of the world is infected/infested with hip-hop and gangsta-rap played at top decible by folks not only from boom boxes on their front porches, but also from entertainment centers in their vehicles. Our houses crack, our bodies shudder, our teeth chatter. Please, won't somebody, get a CD of pipers playing Scotland the Brave and drive through my neighborhood? And set the speaker loud, as in LOUD. Thus shall my soul sing & soar . . .

James Pawlak @ 65

Another ingnorant, no nothing expat . ... I was waiting for one of you lot to blame the English. How many more times with you people ....... read the article it has nothing to do with the English. The MOD is a British establishment and is staffed by people from all parts of the country. The Government of this country has lots of Scots in prominent positions including our beloved PM Tony Blair.

By the way (as if you'll take any notice of this)...... English regiments are being cut as well as are the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy, but our people are still being committed to foreign wars without enough manpower or correct equipment. Military brass bands have to take the same precautions nowadays as the pipe bands.

Did you read this bit ........ James

"A spokesman for the Edinburgh Military Tattoo said: "While this MoD document is certainly interesting, it relates mainly to indoor activity."

James Pawlak and

"THE UK military lost their traditional immunity from health and safety legislation in 2000, with an exemption only applying when the forces are on active service.

Until then, soldiers, sailors and airmen were unable to take legal action against the armed forces for injuries received while working for them."

This has more to do with saving money and stopping the MOD being sued than anything else........ don't you have this in America?

As if occupational hazards aren't part of the glorious tradition.

Will orthodontists insist jazz players stop using the saxophone and other reed instruments because they encourage an overbite?

Will proctologists object to kilts in winter?

Will teachers insist on reading only every third word, so as not to encourage nearsightedness?

Why can't the military tell these fussy idiots to eff off? Seriously, to mess with the pipes is unconscionable.

Of course, they broke up the regiments, too, didn't they?

Maybe it's time for a political reboot?

Hae they no learned... the Proscription was lifted over 100 years ago.

"When the Pipers Play...
Although the Great Highland bagpipe is an ancient instrument, it has earned a special place in the modern world. When the pipers play, the sound touches the past, recalling images of the great conflicts of the twentieth century when millions died. The song also reminds us of sacrifices still being made around the world by peace-keepers. The stirring finale of massed pipes is provided by the pipers of every Scottish regiment."

Ye canna play the pipes or listen to them to your hearts desire in the "UK"? Come to America, where we hear more pipes that I did on my visit to Scotland.... one lone piper in 10 days!

The San Francsico Caledonia Club's 141st Annual Scottish Highland Gathering and Games will be held over Labor Day weekend -- as it is every year. The closing ceremonies each day has 750 pipers. I have never seen less than 450 in years. And I doona wear ear plugs! No. I would be cheated of hearing Rabbie's ghost for days after, should I do so. There is nothing like standing on the same level as the pipers and feel the strains of Amazing Grace pierce your entire body. Those who are nae moved to tears, hae no soul!

The pipes are part of the Scot's soul... no matter how far from Scotland... no matter how many generations pass.

I'd sooner go deaf listening to pipes than be blinded by pc health advisories that seek to rob us of this experience.

Play on, boys... Highland Laddie!.. Twice through!

'Tis said that angels do not play harps - rather they play bagpipes. If "The Music of Heaven" hurts the ears and practice is restricted -- will a law shortly follow banning the thumping drums, twanging, amplified guitars, and screeching, non-musical voices of rock 'n' roll shouters (what they do can't be called singing -- because singing is musical) also come under such close scrutiny? What proud regiment would ever march across No Man's Land tae the spurious sound of rock 'n' roll? Limit pipe practice? This means WAR!! And this 69-year-old Canuck to whom piping is life, will gladly lead the charge.

Govt, Local Council (LOSERS) & now MOD staff advising: Stop paying our taxes!!
REST OF THE WORLD VERSION:
The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building and improving his house and laying up supplies for the winter.The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.Come winter,the squirrel is warm and well fed.The shivering grasshopper
has no food or shelter,so he dies out in the cold.THE END

THE BRITISH VERSION:
The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house & laying up supplies for the winter.The grasshopper thinks he's a fool,& laughs and dances and plays the summer away.Come winter,the
squirrel is warm and well fed.A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper,calls a press conference & demands to know why the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate,like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.The BBC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper;with cuts to a video of the squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table laden with food.The British press inform people that they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth,this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.The Labour Party,Greenpeace,Animal Rights & The Grasshopper Council of GB demonstrate in front of the squirrel's house.
The BBC,interrupting a cultural festival special from Notting Hill with breaking news, broadcasts a multi cultural choir singing "We Shall Overcome".Ken Livingstone rants in an interview with Trevor McDonald that the squirrel has gotten rich off the backs of grasshoppers,& calls for an immediate tax hike on the squirrel to make him pay his "fair share" and increases the charge for squirrels to enter inner London.
In response to pressure from the media,the Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper

Hoot Man!! My Grandpa is rolling in his grave! Now the PC's have gone way to far!!!!! Their Wee Little Brains must be running out of things to control!!!

Since the SCOTSMAN is a family newspaper I may not fully express my comments in English or Gaelic. This particular rule is in the running for the most absurd rule inflicted upon soldiers in 2006. For the record: I am a descendent of Ulster Scots. I took the Yankee dollar & served in the U S Air Force for a short time. FYI-anything less than 30 years is a short time in the USAF.

..The local authority takes over his old home & utilises it as a
temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Britain as they had to share their country of origin with mice. On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Britains apparent love of dogs. The cats had been arrested for the international offence of hijacking & attempt bombing but were immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody.Initial moves to then return them to their own country were abandoned because it was feared they would face death by the mice.The cats devise & start a scam to obtain money from peoples credit cards.
A Panorama special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the squirrels's food,though Spring is still months away,while the council house he is in,crumbles around him because he hasn't bothered to maintain the house.He is shown to be taking drugs. Inadequate government funding is
blamed for the grasshoppers drug 'illness'.
The cats seek recompense in the British courts for their treatment since arrival in UK.
The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs habit.He is imprisoned but released immediately because he has been in custody for a few weeks.He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor & supervise him. Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.
A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost ?10,000,000 and state the obvious,is set up.
Additional money is put into funding a drug rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers and legal aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is increased.The asylum seeking cats are praised by the government for enriching Britain's multicultural diversity and dogs are criticised by the government for failing to befriend the cats.
The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose.The usual sections of the p

Here is a Gaelic puirt-a-beul (mouth tunes composed at a time when the pipes etc were forbidden after the defeat of the clans, these mouth tunes in Gaelic helped to preserve the many of the old pipe tunes and people could dance on the spot to these pipes tunes sung by mouth instead.... after the pipes were forbidden)

This is a very commonly heard mouth music tune often played on the pipes honoring the pipes...piob the fiddle...fidhil and the trumpaidh or jew's harp.

Chuirinn air a' phiob
Air a' phiob, air a phiob e
Chuirinn air a' phiob
Mu sheann Domhnaill Dubhghlas

(I'd play it on the pipes
On the pipes, on the pipes
I'd play it on the pipes
About old Donald Douglas)

Chuirinn air an fhidhil
Air an fhidhil, air an fhidhil e
Chuirinn air an fhidhil e
'S a-rithisd air an trumpaidh

(I'd play it on the fiddle
On the fiddle, on the fiddle
I'd play it on the fiddle
And again on the jew's harp (or maybe jaw harp?)

The English translation between the Gaelic verses is a very exact translation of the Gaelic and the English is not sung in this mouth tune, tempo for this tune is quick and lively and also a common
favorite as both Gaelic song and pipe tune..... this mouth tune often played in pipe medleys in many pipe band events

Quick Gaelic referrence for this pipe tune...
air a' phiob e... on the pipes
(e) referring to (it)
air an fhidhil e.....on the fiddle
(e) again referring to (it, meaning the tune)

Chuirinn
I would play (music)

Churinn e
I would play it

(e) object of verb (in this case play)
is normally the last word in a Gaelic phrase

Chuirinn (air a' phiob) e
Churinn (air an fhidhil) e

in the parentheses can be put an explanation of how or where or when I'd play it (meaning the tune)

This posting is just a little bit of comment about how Gaelic is written, spoken and sung as well as

Jocky...well said and too true. Socialized globalization vs. economic globalization. p.c. totally and globally run amok.

Jocky @ 75 & 77

Brilliant!!!!!

"Govt, Councils (LOSERS) & MOD advisors. Get the important jobs done like supplying front line troops with the correct equipment. Guidelines my A*e."

Absolutely correct .......... the cutbacks in the defence budget are a disgrace, more lives will be lost by Government penny pinching!

Combat firing my rifle reduced the hearing in my right ear. Perhaps the Health and Safety inspectors might advise that an enemy engagement may only last 24 minutes? I'm sure that the UN would agree.

I wonder if we should ban health and safety experts as being a serious risk to our mental health. Try listening to a piper who does not put the hours of practice in and you will hear rubbish. Should professional athletes curb their training because it will affect them in later life? I think not. Heaven protect us from these ner do well's

Och this is the stupedist sassenach thing I've heard of since the old woman sued McDonald's for having hot coffee. I have always wanted to play the bagpipes and played the flute for 10 years in school with a full band behind me at ballgames and concerts and loved every minute of it. I hated to practice but I loved to play and to the ignorant burk who suggested playing an 'electronic' bagpipe why don't we just outfit them with KAZOOS. You lose hearing no matter what you do just by growing older every day. I worked at a car horn factory for a couple years and if you want to lose your hearing you do that job for a while. 200 car horns blaring without the insulation of a car hood for 8-12 hours a day at 120 dbs makes you deaf in a short while. We were required, if we were adjustors, to wear both ear plugs and ear phones at the same time to protect what hearing we had and were subjected to hearing tests frequently to make sure we hadn't lost any of it. That way we couldn't sue because our hearing had gone. Ear plugs are a good idea. They are recommended for anyone who shoots for sport or professionally and I would imagine that they could help pipers and drummers as well. I find them horribly uncomfortable but I'm allergic to the latex in the plugs. Did you know that farmers are also exposed to large amounts of noise, more so than most gun people. Idling farm equipment, diesel engines, etc... are just as loud or worse. You think I'm crazy you go out and stand next to a 1969 Allis-Chalmers D17 when she fires up and try to talk or hear someone as she sputters and pops. But she's a lovely sound....

It seems the UK government is again chipping away the heritage within Scottish military units. First, the consolidation of historic regiments into one "super" regiment because some "bean counter" thought it would save money while alienating local recruitment. What will be next, at Highland games competitors will need to wear safety yellow vest, hard hat and eye protection due to their handling of lumber (caber), farm (sheath) and masonry (stone) items. I hate to see what the government has planned for the Kilt.

I have to say that all the above comments MISS THE POINT COMPLETELY. These guidlines are in place to protect the Scottish Soldier. This is a GOOD THING, and we should not criticise it. However, we must now wait for the NEXT DIRECTIVE which will tell us that a soldier in any theatre of war may be subject to the potential for injury or death, and therefore should not be subjected to such risk. Now this is likely to mean that bambi Blair will present a directive to the UN that makes it an international offence for any soldier, of any nationality, to be subject to any risk of injury or death. This of course means that all wars will immediately cease including the Leabanese/Israel genocide and this is also a GOOD THING. So let us not criticise the H&SE, but complement them for their far-sightedness as a significant contribution to world peace and harmony.

From an old Ray Stevens' song that you never hear anymore but is a favorite of mine:

Blowin' that bagpipe that's my bag,
just a huffin' and a puffin' on that bagpipe bag, blowin that thing till my big fat floppy jaws sag....

I bet they don't tell people singing grand Opera to tone it down and Beethoven didn't sue when he went deaf either. He just kept on writing music that will live longer than you, me, or the next 100 years.

I thought all the do-gooders were on this side of the Atlantic. If menory serves me right it sounds like they are trying to bring back 1745 and Cullonden.

In a study of disruptive noises in medical Intensive Care Units, we ran across one reference that said the hearing of many orchestra musicians seemed to be unaffected by the loud music they produced. As I recall the book was from a Ph.D thesis on audiology.

For Debra Kaye 84

sassenach
n. Saxon; Englishman; Lowland Scottish.

© From the Hutchinson Encyclopaedia.
Helicon Publishing LTD 2006

So who are you blaming for this then, the Lowland Scottish?

Nelson,

Culloden was in 1746 and was fought between the Jacobite Army and the Hanoverian army. There were Scots in the Hanoverian (crown) side and there were English Jacobites.

Google it to check that if you want.

Is there any end to the nonsense being dished out these days by UK 'pc' authorities of wowsers & idiotic do-gooders of very few brain cells?

Problem is, their cretinous cousins of similar ilk, in Australia - the copy cat country - will soon be onto this new load of UK 'poo' too?

Don't they realise that, "On the 8th Day, God created Bagpipes" & to get to a standard akin to a McCrimmon takes the 7th generation seven years
of practise of, at least, 3 hours a day - every day.
The Edinburgh Tattoo could also be doomed??

What's going to happen to the excellent Pipe band of Fettes College - Tony Blair's alma mater? Suggest you flood him with letters, not just the Scotsman...like I'm about to do.
Go to it you wee stotters & haggis bashers & "Up yer kilts".

I hope the MoD will see their errors, back down on this one and let the soldiers play the bagpipes to their hearts content! I am proud to say an uncle with The Black Watch piped his troop across the River Rheine during WW1. There is nothing more stirring than the skirl of the bagpipes! I have heard them played at a wedding, at funerals and Scottish highland games where just a month ago a kindly gentleman played solo for 2 grandchildren and myself! What a thrill for us!! Far better than the constant loud thumping of a car stereo playing rock, or heavy metal when you are waiting at a traffic light.

Now I will go and play my favourite bagpipe music and dream of my ancestral home!!!

Lark said: "I think these warnings are just ridiculous. I have been playing the pipes since I started learning with the Boys' Brigade at the age of 12. I'm now 85. I still play and there's nothing wrong with my hearing.

"The pipes should be played loudly, that's how they inspire soldiers and scare the enemy."

With all due respect to Mr Lark ........... no chance of a surprise attack with that strategy!

I've read this article through and I cannot see where anyone gets the idea that the pipes are being banned. This is just your usual "whip 'em into a frenzy" sensationalist reporting.......... and they do it because it works as we can see here.

All these expats waxing lyrical about the skirl of the pipes and semtimentalising about 'their ancestral home" sort of makes you wonder why they live somewhere else.

Perhaps a romantic fantasy is better than the mundane day to day reality of a place.

For AJ, it's DeDra Kaye not a B thank you and according to my dictionary of Scottish terms and phrases sassenach was a derogatory term for an Englishman. I tend to use it to mean anything stupid or silly due to people who don't know what they're talking about such as governmental ninkompoops with little more than statistics for brains. However if there are Lowland Scots on this so called health and safety board then yeah, the term applies to them too. Hey, have y'all got a warning label on your haggis like we do on our hotdogs that says you've got to make sure to cut it up in teeny tiny pieces so you don't choke your 2 year old trying to eat it? Now that's nannying to the limit too.

Dedra Kaye

Sorry to spell your name wrong!

"Sassenach is a word used chiefly by the Scots and to designate an Englishman or a Lowlands Scot.[1][2] It derives from the Gaelic Sasunnach meaning, originally, "Saxon". The modern Scottish spelling is 'Sasannach'. As employed by Scottish English or Beurla-speakers today it is usually used in jest, as a (friendly) term of abuse. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) gives 1771 as the date of the earliest written use of the word in English.

"Sasanach, the Irish-language word for an Englishman, has the same derivation, as do the words used in Welsh to describe the English language and things English in general: Saesneg and Saesnig. These words are normally, however, used only in the Irish and Welsh languages themselves."

source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassenach

I've yet to meet any English person that actually takes offence at the term anyway....... but I think Lowland Scots do because I have quite a few relatives who are Lowland Scottish.

I don't think Scottish people live, solely, on haggis either but yes we do have very many ridiculous and stupid labels on everything. For instance on a packet of peanuts: Warning contains nuts!!?

Regards

A J

Why don't we expose Health and Safety Inspectors to how extremely unsafe it can be to invent new rules like this by organising a massed band to march up and down outside their office.

Modern day Gaelic spoken by young men and women is very cool.

I heard with great interest on Scottish TV reporters I believe in their 20's and 30's reporting in fluent and rapid Gaelic on various issues of the day in places like Copenhagen,etc.

I took Gaelic instruction from Sorley MacDonald (the grandson of famed Gaelic poet Sorley Maclean) this is a very quick and very agile young man goiing to teach Gaelic in Scotland who can leap up onto tables.
He can play shinty (camanachd, shinty stick called caman) very strongly and teaches us the latest Gaelic, but he can appreciate American blues as sung to him by a Gaelic student who is an American performing in the US in a blues group.

He is marrying a Canadian Russian wife who is learning Gaelic from him.

one of my favorite Gaelic speakers is Don Alick MacKillop of Berneray on whose croft (he raises sheep) Prince Charles stays from time to time digging potatoes.
Don Alick likes to joke and mixing Gaelic and English together saying"
Tha mise "bananas"! or "I am bananas"

He is married to an Australian wife who loves his Gaelic songs.

most Gaelic speakers today live in a good-humored natured way very comfortable in both Gaelic and English language worlds, able to celebrate the best of the old and the new. They love their language, their traditions, their song and poetry. Gaelic speakers live anywhere in the world and they do adapt. I asked one elderly Gaelic speaker at a meeting of Gaelic language society in Toronto whether she missed the Gaelic-speaking island where she came from and she replied reciting in Gaelic a verse from a song/poem named "Tha Mi Trom s' Duilich Leam" meaning "I am heavy-hearted and it's difficult for me" a tune with a nice swinging rhythm proving that she loved and maybe missed where she came from, but was she able to adapt to Canada and continue to do what she loved best even there.
One

nae more pipes !!! what a daft lot these wonkers are !

Join the counter- pc. revolution !!! ON OCT 15 2006 WE DECLARE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS DEAD IN THE WESTERN WORLD. !!
On that day, all common sense supporters are asked to take to the streets and jelp us bury this mad philosophy...... Just a small letter sized card will do, just show it pulbliclly ......
STRIKE A BLOW FOR FREEDOM !!

Sasunn is indeed Scots Gaelic for England. Sasana is the Irish version of that.

Welsh is the strongest Celtic language in the UK today (in numbers of speakers who use it) with offficial signs, etc in both Cymraeg and Saesneg and I believe one of the 2 official languages of the UK.
I have been to the Western Isles of Scotland as well as Shetland and Donegal in Ireland. I would like to go to Wales (Cymru), I would like to listen to native speakers speak Welsh and attend any program of Welsh language song and Welsh harp I can find there.
So that may well be another trip for me in the future.

When I was at the Kisimul Castle in Castlebay (Bagh a' Chaisteil) in Barra (Eilean Bharraigh) I encountered a Manxman who speaks both Scottish Gaelic and Manx Gaelic fluently. He told me that Manx language is in a state of revival on the Isle of Man
and with more people now speaking their own form of Gaelic there which is different in pronunciation and spelling from the Irish and Scottish versions.

I also want to go to Ellan Vannin (Isle of Man) to see for myself the state of Manx Gaelic.

This is an island country out in the Irish Sea that I once read had its own Manx whskey, oats, honey, its own postage stamp and currency, its own parliament whose laws were read in both English and Manx and whose people have Manx last names derived from Gaelic but in contracted and Anglocized form.

And the last European land years after everyone else to officially end its war with Germany!

The duchy of Cornwall (Kernow) is the other land, (with a Celtic language in some kind of state of revival) called a part of England but one that had its own Celtic language related to Welsh and Breton and loaded with Celtic place-names.
A place that where some people would regard themselves as Cornish people and not English and do not consider themselves as part of England any more than Wales would consider itself as part of England. Even though

Angus, John & Stephen: I agree with all 3 of you. A world with out the pipes is unimaginable. I play tapes of the Pipes in my car all the time & havent lost my hearing yet. For the people who dont like the Pipes let them wear earplugs. Pipes produce the most beautiful music in the World.

Murchadh,

The Welsh and Scots do not regard themself as English and never have done. The English do not regard them as English either........ we all know this. However, as it stands at present we are all British oh and so are the Cornish by the way. ...

I live in the Fenland and believe you me we have our own language here as well........ although it's not Gaelic and it's also rumoured that some Fen Tigers even have webbed feet!!

Cheers.

It’s ridiculous! I suppose next the lunatic do-gooders will ban soldiers from using guns and bullets because they are too dangerous.

Peter @ 104

Its a wonder to some of us that they still have any guns or bullets in the armed services the way this Government has cut back on defence spending.

Mind you, even when they fire the bullets, nowadays, they end up in court accused of war crimes. It's amazing how quickly the MOD will distance themselves from any member of the forces who is in that situation. Believe me, you fire that gun, even in a war sometimes and you'd better get yourself a good lawyer.

Goodness me. Putting a silencer on bagpipes. The most gut wrenching music on earth. Its like asking Rammstein to play quietly!
Well I suppose putting earplugs in for practice is OK. Thats what they do on the firing range!
Another point that seems to come up often in posts.
Culloden : 1746 was NOT England against Scotland.

Jocky #77,
Brilliant!

AS WE SAY IN THE STATES B.S BIGTIME

I cannot believe the idiocy of the British government. As someone else has mentioned, this is their (British) way of getting back at Scotland as they did with almagamation of the Scottish Regiments. Although I was raised in the US, my parents were from Glasgow and I was taught from an early age to love everything Scottish and I do. Now the idiots from London are trying to change all of that.

Thats what happens when you root for the teams that played England in the World Cup. !!!!!!!

Let's not get carried away with this debate. These are only 'guidelines' after all, and who ever follows guidelines? I will throw in another 'guideline' for the army (no charge). <Don't fire guns, or throw live grenades, some one may get hurt.> All joking aside, why is it that with so much sanity in the world, as expressed in the 110 previous comments, we have to listen to the insane P.C. few,

Must be nice to have nothing better to do than to find a reason to justify your job. I agree with #109. How low will the English go!

I have served both as a Gunner and as a Drummer/Drum Major, I'm 78 and there is nothing wrong with my hearing. What will Whitehall come up with next, stop wearing the Kilt, the colours are to bright the will cause blindness (I know that the statement is ridiculous, so is the idea that The Pipes are to loud) is this another Idea to get rid of the Scottish Regiments?

what next nco s that whisper so not to to hurt your ears

bollocks

In the US we have OSHA (Occupational, Safety, and Health Administration) I can sympathize with my brother pipers in Scotland. Maybe the health and safety inspectors should take their measuring instruments to Parliment during a lively debate.

Whoever thought up this directive must have been using some other part of his anatomy to blow his trumpet.

Well now. By looking at all the thread laid down here. We certainly know what will tick off a Scot don't we.
The most lethal weapon in the world is a Scotsmen with a set of pipes.

As one who is just getting started in learning the pipes I am flabbergasted that the inspectors can't find something better to bother about than the sound and decibels of the pipes.
I am not sure where I read it in William Donaldson's book, "Pipers", but he states the pipes close up are not a bother to the player.
Besides, if you don't want to hear the pipes go somewhere else so you can't hear them!!!!
I must agree with the other comments about how utterly absurd this whole thing is!!!!
It's just another attempt to take away something that is of great importance to the heritage of Scotland and all Scots all over the world!!!
"Scotland wa' hae'!!!!!"

Imagine: Of all musical instruments, the Pipes are to be sequestered.

Did this not happen right after 1746?

Are the =English= really gone after all?

For how many CENTURIES have the Scots supported the English crown's belitting little regime?

And now, the Pipes – and the Scottish Regiments, are an 'inconvenient' reminder of how the Empire attained its glory.

Heavens! Can't have =ANY= of that now, can we?

But, then? I digress! The UK seems to have gone over the deep end, what with embracing the Communistic ideal, and all that =THAT= entails.

Grandma Beatrice Webb, and Marx will fix everything, eh?

Oh, wait: Those devilish pipes absolutely MUST be removed!

Bagpipes hurt your ears??? So does the blathering of idiots and fools. In thirty years in the US Merchant Marine I met many expatriate Scots and Brits around the world. They all said essentially the same thing: "Can't live in the Home Islands-- the monkeys are running the zoo". After reading The Scotsman online for the past two or three years I believe they understated the case. We have our share of looney toons over here, too, but Jesus, attacking bagpipes?? Get independent and don't look back.

All the do gooders who stuffed up the smokers now have to find something else to stuff up so why not pick on the bagpipes? I know what i'de like to do with a chanter but they might injoy it they are always blowing it out there anyway

Yes, the world has gone mad and I thought it was only impractical, unrealistic thought police manning the beaurocracies in Australia! This is the problem when you educate your children to a level beyond their experience in life and shelter them from the real world when work meant sweat and often blood and tears.

WHEREEVER WE ARE, WE RESPOND TO AN INTERNATIONAL PROBLEM . AND NOT JUST A HUMAN MEDICAL ONE --BUT A LEGAL ONE . PIPES ARE WEAPONS OF WAR JUST AS SMALL ARMS AND S.M.L.E. WERE AND ARE. SOME OF US ARE HEREDITARLY LIKELY TO BE DEAFENED BY THE SOUND FREQUENCIES OF PIPING. TO SUGGEST THAT IF YOU HAVE DEAFNESS IN THE FAMILY ONE MUST TAKE PROTECTIVE AUDITORY ACTION WHEN DOING THE PIPING IS A SENSIBLE ONE . AND ONE THAT MIGHT NOT BE LEFT TO THE INDIVIDUAL MUSICIAN TO DECIDE FOR HIMSELF, BUT MADE AN ORDER OF MILITARY COMMAND.

Please don't yell, Dr. McArthur. I hurts my eyes.

I have been piping for 16 years. I don't like piping in a closed room with hard surfaces. It bothers my ears and I find it makes tuning more difficult. We, the Alaska Highlanders, spend from mid May through early September practicing and playing out of doors. The rest of the yearly cycle, we must practice and perform indoors. The air is very dry even in the summer during out wet season. It was very pleaseant to be in Scotland during Pipe Fest 2005 to tune up and play with great ease. We led the march of a mile (or so) from Smithfield to the Welsh Centre after the memorial service for William Walace. The heat and humidity were almost unbearable, but the pipes liked it.

Perhaps the methodology and criteria need investigation.

Check out the Canadian website: www.musiciansclinics.com if you need advice on hearing/ music protection.
Remember recommended noise/sound levels are based on protecting 90% of those exposed to that level.... some of those 90% will be able to put up with the same levels for many times longer and have no hearing loss.
And the other 10%? They are even more at risk of hearing damage.
As it says on that website: It's dependent on "For how long", "How loud", "How much you enjoy the music", "How fit & healthy you are" and "What your genetic susceptibility to noise damage is"
It doesn't matter if it's Bagpipes, French-horn or screaming kids!

These, H & S Inspectors, there're not English by any chance are they?!

Having read 127 comments, I think most of us think that the proposal to effectively ban the pipes) since the limits wouldn't allow enough time for practice or tuning up) are just plain crazy.

Time to write to your MP/MSP; or if you're abroad send your letters to the Health & Safety Directorate in England.

A comment to Murchadh (Morgan, Silver Spring, Maryland).

It's very nice to see comments in Gaelic.

I'd just like to point out that the pipes aren't exclusive to Gaelic culture - they're traditional in the rest of Scotland, northern England, and many other countries.

I think they came to us Gaels from the Romans, and I think they got them from the Greeks who got them from northern India (or possibly Bactria or Afghanistan) when Alexander the Great invaded India.

How ridiculous - but unfortunately in today's world I can well believe it!

The most important bit for any budding piper must be that you can only play in the Gents' toilet for six minutes - does that mean that they can play in the Ladies' for as long as they want ? [They even tested how loud the pipes sounded in a gents' toilet with a tiled wall, where they concluded the maximum permissible noise exposure should be just six minutes]!

Presumably, on the same basuis a soldier can only stay in the firing line during battle for about three minutes?

While completely agreeing on the absurdity of these new regulations, we are all to blame. How often do you hear the phrase "When is the government going to do something about <whatever perceived ill catches the imagination>?". We can't have it both ways. Either we tell our governments to butt out of our lives and stick to such things as fixing roads and running health care or we accept that they are going to poke their noses into every aspect they can think of.

Per comment on music in schools..WOW, starting to sound like California USA. They have already cut back on the Music Programs in our schools.
And very sad about what the are doing to the pipers.
Truly a beautiful instrument, I cry when I hear it,
and thats in a good way..haha
You know it is proven that music promotes self esteem and stimulates your mind for better learning.
Training in music has a positive effect on the brain. The critical period for learning music is from 3-10 years old. Music stimulates the formation of synapses and dendrites. ... Music helps to promote learning, involves both sides of the brain, and stimulates the higher brain ...
I am a musician myself. I started out with a reading
issue, but after I took music classes I excelled in all
of my classes. It is a shame that these things happen

i agree with almost everything said by Hawkeyethenu @14 but i am puzzled as to how a woman could 'get herself pregnant'...

all of the things, customs and traditions that made the western world great are being stripped from our society. and we are playing into the hands of those others in the world who plot our ultimate demise. What are our governments thinking off

For the writers of #'s 75,77, & 79: Many thanks! I totally enjoyed them!! For Mike, #129, I would guess that as long as the ladies loo doesn't have tiled walls, you are good to go, for as long as you possibly can!

Interesting how all those sentimental idiots abroad blame the English for this. Believe me, the English could not care less about pipe bands, tartan, kilts or any of the rest of it and certainly do not want to ban it. But, just do us a favour and keep it where it belongs in Scotland! Thanks............... this'll get all you mad eyed ranting "my grandaddy came from Scotland" types going won't it?

Well, away you go ............... none of you actually want to live there though do you?

Does a wee tear come to your eye when the play 'The Skye Boat Song' and you pretend to be Rob Roy or Flora McDonald?

Notice I didn't say Bonnie Prince Charlie, after all as history tells us ......... he was a French poof!!

Sorry, I forgot you don't get accurate history do you............ just the Hollywood version!!!

Whatever next.

Earplugs for troops firing rifles?

A good shot up the backside of the H & S clowns should sort things out.

What an absolute bunch of W*****s.

WHEN are we EVER going to get rid of these PC halfwits!

What a b****y mess mess they've made of this country.

The whole PC lot should be hung, drawn & quartered.

They just don't live in the real world.

Health & Safety? - give me a break.

Maybe we should use the earplugs when listening to the experts, and take them out when listening to the bagpipes.

Well said, Steven.

Now THAT would be a bonnie sound.

They wouldn't know the difference between bagpipes and sewerpipes - since all they talk is ?!@#.

First of all in response to "just an observation" People live in other parts of the world for many reasons and this does not stop us being fiercly patriotic. I am NOT a Canadian however I recently saw the Mounties perform the musical ride in Ottawa and confess to feeling such a sense of national pride and identity. Just the same as hearing the beloved pipes still leaves me with goosebumps(the good kind!) I do not think this is an English vs Scots issue,merely another example of us being governed to death as are most countries these days it seems.
What is next,will our tartans be considered too garish for the naked eye,our haggis too exotic for the average pallet or dare I say jellied eels,fish and chips and all teh other traditional English delights.
Perhaps this will spill over into Canadian life too...the mounties red serge too bright? Maple syrup can cause cavities??? gimme a break,be proud of your heritage whatever it may be and never let ANYONE tell you you don't have the right to be patriotic.....duh?

As Shakespeare said and I wholeheartedly agree, "Kill all the lawyers." You realize that the reason people are so touchy feely today is because there is a personal injury or 'opportunity knocks' lawyer out there with nothing better to do than to give you free advice and then charge the government 30% of the take of whatever settlement you get from his advice. Judges can stop the lawyers but they get all twitterpated with the office and the idiot jurors get shown a picture of a puppy and start weeping buckets of money. The problem is the world isn't made of money. Just cause you can print it doesn't mean it's worth anything. How many times have people sued thinking they'd get rich and received some humongous settlement when they didn't even deserve the time of day from the bailiff. It is a true crime that the courts are cluttered with this rot that true crimes can't be pushed through for years. We all need to take responsibility in ourselves. If I start smoking--which I don't--and I get addicted well that's my own damnable fault not the cigarette company who made the cigs. It's not McDonald's or KFCs fault that I'm 70 pounds overweight. I like food and I enjoy every bite I take and I hate to exercise. If I choose the bagpipes as my instrument of choice and I love to play and I go deaf from a variety of reasons it will be MY hurt because I'll never get to hear the pipes again. I just get sick of people second guessing what people are going to do. If anyone has ever heard a pipe organ or been on stage when one starts up, you talk about loud, there is no quiet pipe organ, and it rumbles the very soul. Bagpipes are the same way. I am always moved to tears when they play because it's such an overwhelming sound. But then, I cry at a lot of things like Kodak commercials, pictures of puppies, kittens, pure music that doesn't require a lot of synthesizers or digital remastery to enjoy...

You know, I've been playing for 23 years, and I would have to say that being a construction equipment mechanic and listing to the banging of 8, 12, & 16 cylinder diesel engines banging has destroyed my hearing more than my pipes ever have!

Jocky - superb piece of writing - totally sums up this appalling PC society we are subjected to. We work hard, try to keep our traditions, do the best for our families and the damn government tries to force us to "integrate" with, and have sympathy for, incomers and ne'er do wells who can't be bothered to do a day's work, steal our possessions and bleed our social security and health systems dry, some of whom have no respect for our culture and can't even be bothered to learn our language.

Perhaps we should ALL wear ear protection when Jack McConnell or Tony Blair, or in fact MOST politicians start giving us their PC nonsense - and ignore them.

The Army is protecting itself from lawsuits - perhaps they should pay more attention to those soldiers who are fighting for compensation for Gulf War Syndrome, or denying soldiers' widows their pensions on a technicality.

I am learning the pipes and know they are loud. And my ears do ring when practising indoors but anyone with any sense will know their own limitations and can choose whether to wear ear protection or not.

I am just imagining the World Pipe Band Championships with all the bands having little yellow cylinders sticking out of their ears...

>>>136. Just an observation, U K / 10:24pm 24 Jul 2006 Notice I didn't say Bonnie Prince Charlie, after all as history tells us ......... he was a French poof!!

Sorry, I forgot you don't get accurate history do you............ just the Hollywood version!!!
>>>

And you have the Westminster propaganda version,......... just as accurate!!!
(Google it)

Arriving in France after fleeing Scotland he was a notorious womaniser, however,
"Bonny" Prince Charlie was born and raised in Italy of a Polish mother and Scottish father.

He adopted the title Duke of Albany when he retired to Rome, and later to Florence, after the '45, and fathered 4-5 children, not all to his wife!
One of these, conceived during the '45 campaign, he later legitimised

Some 'French poof '!!

Folk in glass houses...

He was a dissolute French poof and he would have dropped Scotland like a hot potato had he achieved the real prize of London. Westminster propoganda my a...

Hayley @ 140

I have never eaten a jellied eel in my life..... and have no intention of doing do. It was not me who made this an English v Scottish issue it was all the expats commenting on here that it was all down to a dastardly plot by the eternal baddies the English. You can swathe yourself from head to toe in tartan and dance to the pipes till the cows come home ..... nobody in England could care less about the bagpipes or any of the rest of the paraphenalia that goes with it. We wouldn't waste our energy trying to ban it............... it amuses me that people think that the English sit around trying to think of ways to get at the Scots ............. real life isn't like that I'm afraid. Even the Israeli attack has been likened to the English firing rockets over the border.......... we wouldn't bother with that we'd just use our English bowmen as in the olden days!!!

By the way 144 James 1 and VI fathered a good few children to his legimate wife but he also liked a little dalliance with the boys........ Royals and aristocrats got up to all sorts in those days ......... and noone thought anything of it, there were no PC police then!

Thomas @ 148

Down south of where .......Tokyo?

The advice I get is to quit using a chainsaw (for whatever reason) in the men's room.

Pipes are not good for the hearing they are saying, then should we get rid of the assault courses as in pre parachute selection, as it might hurt some of them. Whats the country coming to. I am an ex Piper (Irish Guards) I am 72 but I can still hear, unless it's the missus calling!.

My auld dad is either spinning or laughing his bahoochie off in his grave.

We got a piper to come play his birthday once -- the piper was so loud we had to take him a quarter mile off from the house to tune up, but somehow when he was playing a private concert for Da in my mother's parlor, he was just right.

Which goes to show it's the heart you listen with, not the ears.

WHA?
I think these 'health' people are madder than hatters, either that, or it's thier way of taking over and killing everything.
I,for one, could listen(yes,even at CLOSE PROXIMITY I will GLADLY listen to 'Scotland the Brave' over...and over.. and over....)
Wow, this is stupid.

Has anyone actually read the article? They are not banning the bagpipes............ OK?

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154. Jack, North / 8:15pm 25 Jul 2006 Has anyone actually read the article? They are not banning the bagpipes............ OK?
<<<

No of course they aren't Jack
Just don't practice - you'll hurt yourself!!

Hi AJ Back in London after great holiday in Scotland I had to give this posting up as fellow holidaymakers said I was a sad git. Well I have satisfied withdrawal symptons ..... nothing has changed Ex pats stilll ranting on. I am glad you made that point about ENGLISH regiments suffering from amalagamation also. As ever so easy to blame us for all Scot`s ills. Cheers Where are Diane & Fraser?

Hi Just an Observation I like the cut of your jib. On a previous board I pointed out to a frantic ex.pat that Mel Gibson,s history wasn`t to be taken too seriously, and that apparently his next subject was going to be Bodiccea !!?? third time lucky for us Sassenachs (after Wm. Wallace & The Patriot) A goody English person at last ? I~m not holding my breath. Have just returned from smashing holiday in Highlands & came across no Anglo/Scottish animosity at all, perhaps normal people with normal reactions don`t bother with these posts, not so self-promoting as us lot

Having served in the Armed Forces for 24 years i think i might have some knowledge of what im saying!!! I think this country is getting totally out of control as to what we are allowed to do or to say!!

I cant believe that they are now getting at pipers,
what next do we gag the little kids on a bus or on train if they scream to loud!!! quite sure they are louder than pipes.

Can You imagine the scenes on regimental parades or trooping the colour, ( sorry your majesty we have stopped the parade , your pipers need to stop as the local Health and Safety advisor will serve a prohibition notice on them)

Its really is getting beyond believe in this country and we as the tax payer should be doing something about this.

Its Health and Safety going totally out of control!!!!

How can musician become better players if they cannot practice what they learn on the actual instrument!!!!

This seems a final attempt by the Blair government to crush what little remaining traditions the Scottish regiments have in the British army now. There seems no end to this kind of stuff. The UK was once a country I would have considered living in. Now I am glad I never did it! As screwed up as the States are now, at least we have not sunk to this level (yet)!

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157. JANIS, london / 12:12am 26 Jul 2006 Hi Just an Observation I like the cut of your jib. On a previous board I pointed out to a frantic ex.pat that Mel Gibson,s history wasn`t to be taken too seriously, and that apparently his next subject was going to be Bodiccea !!?? third time lucky for us Sassenachs (after Wm. Wallace & The Patriot) A goody English person at last ? I~m not holding my breath.
<<<

And how did you find the good Mr Costner's rendition of the Robin Hood story in Prince of Thieves?
Annoying soundtrack et al.

Of course since Kevin apparently put Richard the Lionheart back on the throne of England, even if Richard sounded a bit like 007 and, let's face it, his Brother John was portrayed as a bit of a bism, we should therefore also rubbish these figures of English popular culture, á la Braveheart?

Just checked the source of this story under freedom of information and this appears to come from a NATO directive of 2001.

http://www.dmsd.mod.uk/stanag2899ed3.doc

Not only are the pipes under threat but also anything making a sound louder than 85dB!
ie your friendly local RSM and gun salutes at a Regiment near you!

Wherever you are, ...shhhhhhh!

Hi Hawkayethenu Great AKA Yes you are correct... Robin Hood a goody English person portrayed. I had forgotten that film, (not made by Mr. Gibson `tho.) Enjoyable film thanks to the very baddy Sheriff Alan Rickman.... gorgeous guy! I was, like other English written posts before me, commenting on the ex. pats `rants that occur. being baddies I suppose any English ex, pats need to keep a low profile. Now I`ve forgotten what this post is supposed to be about. Bagpipers are brilliant keep protesting, Morris Dancers don`t have same appeal Cheers

My uncle was a piper, and he died! Well actually my aunt went mad and kilt him, the judge said it was self defense, an she got off scot free! I was at the learning stage, you know puffin on the chanter, by the way it was make in England, but quit, my wife started carrying a gun, said it was for self-defense! Now I don't know if this will help solve the problem with anyone's ears. But I've never seen the pipes being played with ones ears. All seems confusing to me. anyway its time for me toddy!