This just proves how much of a lapdog Blair is. If you listen to it, he's struggling to complete a sentence before Bush interrupts. It's apparent who is in charge. The only thing missing was Blair rolling over for Bush to rub his belly and say, "there's a good boy!"

How much worse can things get with Mr. Bush in charge? We have zero credibility in the world, our military has been frog marched into an unlawful war, in a classic case of imperial overeach. We're in hock to the tune of many trillions of dollars and we have a president who is running the country with a bad case of attention deficit disorder and dyslexia as evidenced by the dialogue above. Heaven help us.

Get a life - wot's wrong with this - I wish the Liberal - anti war media would just accept they lost the argument - this is Real Politics. Bush is a fantastic leader of the free world - just see how he has kept all those Talibali off the streets in the holliday hotspot of Cuba! There quite a few journalists who should taste this American hospitality.

They just don't care that Lebanon is being surgically destroyed by the Israelis and that men, women and children are dying. If Americans dying, it'd all be different. Monsters, these guys, aren't they?

Bush & Blair just don't get it! They are the problem.
The so called 'Axis of Evil'countries have genuine grievences which we in the West (I'm British) have never addressed diplomatically. Offering bribes to create allies to go to war will never work. The USA has to call Israel to order urgently or face the consequences.

Bush is a moron. We all knew that already. Blair seems to be trying to do to Bush what Monica Lewinsky did to Clinton (allegedly!). No wonder he turned the microphone off as soon as he realised - he must be mortified to have his fawning incoherence broadcast to the world.

Blair is obviously keen to get Bush to send him to the Middle East so that Blair can try to look like the international statesman he isn't.

Not much chat here about how Iran and Syria are sponsoring Hizbollah and Hamas and are effectively conducting a war with Israel by proxy, or about how Iran are basically doing the same with the British Army in Basra. Funny that.

Israel are by no means blameless - does anyone think this would have happened if Ariel Sharon was still in charge? I don't think so. Why? Because he had nothing to prove. Their actions in Gaza over the past month have been nothing short of inhumane. However, a UN occupation force won't work. Israel and Syria / Iran should be dragged to a negotiating table on threat of UN Sanctions.

Bush / Blair - a transcript of some of the conversations that any of us have every day would look pretty stupid on its own. I'd be less impressed if the standalone transcript was completely word-perfect, as it would imply stage management and line-learning. So Ken (1) is right - BIG DEAL.

i really dont see what the big deal is with this. It's nice to see that some straight talking does take place.
The like of G Galloway i'd suggest alienate people with their diatribe. I'm not suggesting that world leaders should talk like a glasgow ned, but that conversation if it was between clinton and blair would have had a completely different spin applied to it by the press.

9. david
well said, i couldn't agree more. political correctness is going to kill a lot of people.

It`s frightening to think that someone as stupid as that guy Bush is in charge of the U S.How the American people put him in god only knows.If they had elected a monkey they would be no worse off.He sounds like a caricature from spittin image.As for BLair we should have sent him packing the last time.The quicker he goes the better.They don`t seem to care that it`s innocent peoples lives at stake here.He`ll be away soon on another freebie but don`t worry we`ve got Prescott to sort it out.I feel like Basil Faulty,"it must be a dream....no it`s not".

I don't know who David from Eastleigh in Hampshire is referring to as "us". It certainly doesn't include me. Does he think because I am white, have English as a mother tongue and British nationality he can expect me to be on the same side as him in his sodding war?

Israel is a racist state - that is a question of constitutional fact. It perpetuates by its very existence the disgusting logic of the Nazis. The sooner it is dismantled and a new state created to include it and Palestine which gives all of its citizens (current and former) equal constitutional rights the better.

We should all be supporting Iran's attempts to create an equitable and democratic Middle East that respects the religious and cultural traditions of all of its constituent countries' residents and doesn't see the area as existing purely as a means for the western powers (by which I mean the Anglo-American Imperium and its fawning accolytes) to exploit its energy and labour resources.

This seems like a pretty straight-forward conversation between two friendly colleagues of long-standing. I have not been overly impressed by Bush (or Blair) but I was oddly reassurred by the content of the transcript. They were not militant or irate but rather frustrated with a lack of movement and worried about escalation. Blair was right when he suggested that if Condoleeza Rice goes to the Middle East and comes back with nothing then the visit will be perceived as a failure but Blair can go and "just chat" without the same pressure. It is also clear that Bush does not want direct US involvement in the Lebanese mess and does not hold the Lebanese government in any way responsible. All this is reasonable enough and I don't see what is negative about any of it. Where he fails though is in yanking the Israelis chain. As much as he is right that Syria should tell Hezbollah to "stop this sh*t", he should tell Israel to do likewise.

John @ 8

At last, someone who has read beyond the headlines - Yes, Iran and Syria need to be brought to the table. Hamas and Hezbollah are not working alone - they are working for Iran and Syria. As part of Iran's strategy to redefine the balance of power in the Middle East under a Shia regime. The moderate Sunni states of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia are growing increasingly concerned that as long as the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon continues - Iran will win the propoganda war in their countries with lurid headlines and TV pictures of Lebanese fleeing under Israeli aggession.

The Israeli's have a right to defend their state but need to be mindful of turning moderates into radicals.

Well said Tommy! More power to the likes of you. Bush being 'the leader of the free world' scares the sh*t out of me and after the last few years of Blair, I will NEVER vote Labour again.

Its nice to hear politicians are real and their conversations are not all written down and sanitized before they are aired even if it was an accident. Mr.
Bush is no stuffed shirt , he is down home and the real article.He stands up for democracy and freedom for the people..I am glad he is our neighbour. I am sure he is amused with the new crisis as it brings another allie into the fight against terrorism!!

I think that considering the length of the transcript, its surprising that Bush and/or Blair didn't come out with a real whopper.

I'm disappointed.

I don't care too read anything into the content because this was very casual stuff.
However, Blair's apparent manner made me cringe. He was wanting to steal the limelight again by starting off high level talks and get all the accolades. Leaving the nitty gritty detail for the follow-on from Condi Rice who would, most likely, be in a no-win situation.
Very dissappointing Mr. Blair.

P.S. However, I do agree with President Bush - China is a BIG country!

David
I agree with you 100%.

Dave from England, I too have reservations about Islam - have been to one or two mosques, read and teach about it - and i believe it is an aggressive creed. No different to Christianity but Christianity's murderous zeal is mostly history (but keep an eye on the US).

However, Lebanon was a peaceful and moderate democracy moving towards playing an important part in the region's politics. Remember only a few months ago it was praised for finally getting rid of Syrian troop? Israel admit that only Hezbolah is the problem. Why then are they bombing a developing and potentially useful neighbour into the state of anarchy it was 20 years ago. Do they want a new Iraq on their doorstep.

The above report only serves to underline Blair's poodle-like status to Bush's blundering but bullying mentality. Lets hope the Scots Parliament elections next year give Blair the message that Scotland wants no part of his destructive foreign policy and his subservience to a right-wing religious maniac like Bush.

Ref:13, Tommy:

I laughed out loud when I read Tommy's little ditty

Yeah, go on holiday there matey and if you are a practising christian lets see how tolerant they are then.

As for the democracy that you hold out as a shining light in Iran, If you even look like winning against the system you go to jail do not pass go do not collect #200. democracy for who? The Mullas?

No doubt you will cheer with each death of a british soldier in Iraq whose only crime is to try to protect the democracy in that country,

Oh and by the way which terrorist's are supported by Iran.

John / 7:27am 18 Jul 2006 Get a life - wot's wrong with this - I wish the Liberal - anti war media would just accept they lost the argument - this is Real Politics. Bush is a fantastic leader of the free world - just see how he has kept all those Talibali off the streets in the holliday hotspot of Cuba! There quite a few journalists who should taste this American hospitality.
^^^^^^^^^
What an idiot. Brain washed muppet who cant see further than his own nose, I really pitty you!

Christian crusaders and angry arabs try not to involve the rest of the world in your religious war its a pile of bulls**t. You are a bunch of Androids, I urge our weak Prime minister to pull out of this pointless fight.

Sounds like dialogue from Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. Except Bill & Ted were much more convincing in the sincerity of their quest for world peace. Yo dudes.

First is there anyone out there who doesnt have informal or confidential conversations with working colleagues? Why should it be any different for these guys? What's the big deal? Its so easy to criticise people in leadership. Anybody out there think they can do a better job?

Second if anyone thinks that we should treating or appeasing folks that use suicide (homocide) bombings as a tool think again. Remember the infamous 'peace in our time' appeasement of Hitler.

Third, within radical Islam its adherants think its appropriate to lie if the end justifies the means. So, in other words, we are not dealing with straighforward or reliable negotiating partners when we look at radical Syrian and Iranian elements as well as Hamas and Hezbollah. Like Bush and Blair or loathe them, one thing we definitely need is direct tough leaders at this junction of history. Because we are only deluding ourselves if we think we can talk our way out of this. These Hamas and Hezbollah folks are in this for keeps and 7/7 shows they are coming after us too.

Well done david from Eastleigh- you read a book!!!! Yipidee day. I think you should be president of the world and we should all kiss your feet (- Especially as you come from Beastleigh eastleigh)

Super powers cannot dictate to other religions, creeds or races, variety is the spice of life etc.. would a eutopia be us all living in Eastleigh sprout racist, intolerant shite... Yesss

With Reference to John - Comment 4 - this is Real Politics is it? Bush is a fantastic leader? If you are one of the free and liberal people he is leading with your references to "Talibali" and Cuban Tourism, well pray the world never receives any of your hospitality, one egotistical charade is one too many for the rest of us!

How do you think that people who know each other quite well talk together? I don't think there's much unusual there. Blair comes across as the junior partner, but who didn't know that already?

I suppose the bit that caught my eye in particular was that Blair thought it neccessary to refer to Angela Merkel as Angela Merkel the German chancellor!! Is that because Blair believes what he sees on the TV or from first hand experience?

They say that racism and biggotry are results of ignorance and by some of the comments I have read I see that there are a lot of ignorant people in this world. I wonder if our Tommy from Edinburgh has actually visited the Middle East in any way shape or form.
I take great offense in being compared to Nazi Germany, the last time I checked no palestinian has been marched off to a gas chamber, nor have they watched as their children were thrown in the air and used as target practice, or flung in the air and their heads battered against crematorian walls nor are their pregnant women torn apart by alsatians. 6 million Jews were butchered by Nazi Germany as were over half a million gays, and 5 million disabled, gypsies, blacks etc. Tommy also has the impression that Israel is a racist state, take a good look at Great Britain it is a master of institutionalised racism. Israel air lifted tens of thousands of Ethiopeans out of harms way all of who are integrated into Israeli society as are the 1.5 million arabs who live within her borders. If any of you believe that Iran or any other arab country in this region are democratic I suggest you dust off your dictionaries and find out what democracy means. Not one Arab state has any constitution that is even close to a democracy. Israel is a recognised country with the right to defend itself in any way it sees fit when threatened. Never in the entire history of its being has it ever made an unprovoked attack and if you actually check your facts the current situation has arisen due to an internationlly recognised terror group breaching an internationally recognised border and kidnapping and killing at will. The same terror group that fire rockets from homes of lebonese civilians with the occupants inside. The same terror group that ensure at all times they hide behind these civilians with such pride in their work that they mask their faces. The same terror group who are Shiite Muslims who don't care about their &

Hi,

Just finished reading your comments on the Bush Blair conversation. To myself anyway, all I can say is "Welcome to the Real World."

Our Prime minister Mr Blair really has shown his true colors when he is talking to President Bush, even if the transcript is somewhat incoherent, but the basic jist is there, and very embarrassing, this is all kids stuff if it wasn't so very serious.

The reality is, that both Syria and Iran are the big players in all of this, and Israel are the policing influence in the area, supported of course by the West. Also Britain played an important roll in setting up the now exsisting Jewish state as it is to day.

The Palestinian equation will not be resolved at this moment time, as the timing is not right.

Having lived in the Middle East myself for a great number of years in one of the smaller emirates, and by talking to the local Arabs your'e acquanted with the fact that nobody in the Middle East does anything without Syria being involved with some decision making, that has probably been brought about during historical times.

As Far is Iran is concerned, they are looking to expand their position of influence in the area, and Iraq funnily enough was a block between the two namely Syria and Iran, as both were eyeballing extending their borders into Iraq,after the gulf war much to the fear of the smaller emirates that surround Iraq.

So it is to both Syria and Iran's benefit to keep the Middle Eastern question on the boil including Iraq and now lebanon.

If you really talk to an Arab coming from those areas, you will get a real insight into what they think, and from my previous conversations with them, all they want to do is live quietly and go about their normal days business, same as we do.

These islamic radicals could not care less about what the great majority of Arabs think, being the the minority I may add, as these radical groups are on an agenda all on their o

Blair had to tell Bush that Angela Merkel is the German Chancellor because Bush probably does not know that she is the German Chancellor. He probably does'nt even know where Germany is. What a dum dum. God bless America; someone needs to.

I remember someone saying years ago that if we listened to the people in power speaking in private we would be shocked to hear how ordinary they sounded, nothing special, just like the rest of us.

Does Steph from Israel not care that thousands of farmers and their families are being thrown off the land they have owned and farmed for centuries in Israel- Palestine, with their homes destroyed, their olive groves uprooted, their children denied an education, their healthcare needs ignored, their places of worship (mosques AND churches) closed or damaged, their way of life made as difficult as possible with security barriers, roadside checks middle of the night arrests etc etc, poorly paid jobs, no food, no running water, no electricity all so that some one who wishes to come as an immigrant with immediate citizenship because they happen to follow the jewish religion can have a nice house, education, swimming pool, job, garden etc etc.

If Israel stopped inflicting what are to all obvious eyes aparteid measures to its "other" citizens - the palestinians (many of whom hold israeli citizenship too) then perhaps the militants in other neoighbouring countries might be less willing to wage war. Oh and don't forgent many of the palestinian arabs are not Muslim, they are christians like President Bush and Mr Blair!!!! Pehaps both these world leaders should step bakc a bit instead of thinking that they and sort everone's problems out

Jane,

They could all come and live here.

Presidential decree No1

I'm personally tired of the way in which the media makes a circus anytime Bush does something.

He had an everyday conversation with Blair. BIG deal!

He doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is - no airs or graces - just a man.

I suppose that doesn't sit well with those that would work hard to keep a class system firmly in place that does nothing but breed hopelessness among the common person.

Thank you to Steph @ 30 and James @ 31 ..... both of whom are realists. Steph is obviously experiencing a situation that none of us here, if we're lucky, will have to go through. John has been to the Middle East and knows about moderate Arab opinion, first hand.

What people need to do is stop reading the headlines and reacting in emotional and kneejerk ways. Yes, it sounds as if the Israeli's are being the bully boys here but if you actually take even a cursory glance, with the Western blinkers off, you might realise that radical, Islam from Iran and Syria are the real danger.

What does it take to get through - they only want power - they do not want democracy or to live in peace - if you are allowed to practice your religion - it will be as they say. The situation for women under these extreme regimes is even more medieval.

So, stop trotting out emotional statements and look beyond the headlines.

Guys - get a life - anything you lot pontificate about is not going to make a jot of difference. You must all lead sad lives actually worrying about this stuff. Cuba is the 'now' holiday hotspot. Send them there with the communies!

E M of Glasgow; what planet are you living on? Do you really think that Bush rules a classless society in the USA. He is a part of the class system. How do you think he came to power; it certainly was'nt because of his intellect but because he was rich enough to "buy" power. Since Bush became president, the gulf between "have's" and "havenots" in the USA has widened has it has under Blair in the UK

Hi A J from England,

Thank you for your comment on both Steph 30 and James 31. You have indeed arrived as to the reality of it all.

My personal feelings are, we have to check out where all this money is coming from to support these radicals Steph rightly had mentioned a few salient points regarding this, but I always check who is the real big power broker in this equation.

And by finding that source you will have a clearer picture, as without money these radicals groups cease to exsist.

Bush and Blair as do the rest of the G8 presently meeting know, and Israel certainly knows that is for sure.

All that amount of EEC money building infrastructure both in Lebanon and in Gaza wasted, because of these radicals,beleve me they are not interested in the poor Palastinians. A real shame and innocents both sides of the problem getting killed as result.

QUITE, BUT IT ALL DEPENDS ON, WHO IS HOLDING WHOSE HAND ! ! !
(i.e)Who is leading Who?

Well, I shouldn't probably be getting drawn into this. But one doesn't often get an opportunity to have a public debate with an Israeli (or, at least, someone who lives there). Thank you Steph for raising some important issues. You have been called a realist, which is probably an accurate description of the philosophical position you have been taking. Of course I don't mean to equate the ACTS committed by the racist state of Israel to those of the German Nazis. There is clearly no comparison. But the consequences of racism enshrined as a political principle in 1930s/40s Germany are obviously going to be different than today. Jane makes a good comparison between Israel of today and South Africa of a generation ago, I think. My argument concerns the PRINCIPLE of racism. I don't think that "we" in the west can afford to support Israel, because by doing so we are directly supporting the principle of racism. If we apply that principle to our own semi-democracies there will be big trouble - anyone with any political consciousness whatsoever knows that. I think that the acts of Iran/Syria etc. are largely those of intelligent leaders who can see that the cookie is beginning to crumble and who, with the help of other players like China and Russia, can help the cookie to crumble their way for the first time in a while. Israel is on the skids as far as I can see - it doesn't matter how big an army it has got. Everyone would be better off imho if we accepted this reality and started to look beyond the so-called two-state solution and towards a situation where justice could begin to be the key principle of organisation in the Middle East instead of racism and exploitation.

With leaders like this we're all ..er.. safe ...er ..aren't we?

James @ 41

"All that amount of EEC money building infrastructure both in Lebanon and in Gaza wasted, because of these radicals,beleve me they are not interested in the poor Palastinians. A real shame and innocents both sides of the problem getting killed as result."

Agreed, radical Islam in their aims to redefine the balance of power in the Middle East have always used the Palestinians as fall guys. Hezbollah, are doing the same with the Lebanese. The best that could happen is if the Lebanese turn on Hezbollah. The problem is that the level of Israeli response may negate this, and turn what has started to become a relatively stable and prosperous region back to what it was during the civil war.

The UN needs to put pressure on but the pressure needs to be applied in Damascus and Tehran.

David, could i kiss your arse in dodgey desborough road or flaming park. I think the axis of evil is the Swan centre.

PS i don't think that anyone in the third or first world would want to live in eastleigh...

The question is do we want Tory Blair to negotiate international policy on behalf of Scotland? In this transcript he struggles to make a coherent sentence while Bush spits out orders.

Maybe rather than personally selecting jumpers for George he should consider asking the US to pressurise Israel financially into obeying international law and stop bombing civilians in 'revenge'.

Israel and the US flout international law on a daily basis and are making the world a much less safe place to live.

If the UN is ever going to be taken seriously then it must have an unassailable commitment to human rights and it must also ensure that all nations abide by it's decisions. If they don't they should be kicked out and shown up for the international pariahs they have become.

Read Palestine by Joe Sacco to find out the truth about the Israeli occupation.

Yo Tony! Go now!

Hi John 39,

I think you have got it. Know the real source, solve the problem!!

Firstly, I am well aware of the horrendous atrocities perpetrated against the Jews in Germany and elsewhere over centuries. Others have been persecuted and have not forcefully demanded a country for themselves.

I think the problem started with the amazing post war generosity of Britain and America in their handing over, to terrorist Jews, their 'promised land'. I think they lost their right to that land when they migrated from it hundreds+ years ago when many other peoples migrated. If all those migrants demanded their land back from the present occupants that would cause huge unimaginable upheaval.

Further, Israelis, not contented with what they were given, have taken, illegally, the West Bank. This thuggish behaviour can't be justified even on grounds of security. What a shambles! Israeli's should be thankful for what they have and return their illegally acquired lands now.

OK everyone. All i need to know is who do we shoot at?

Bush: Who's on first?
Blair: No, Who's on second!
Bush: Then, who's on first?
Blair: No, I told you ....
Bush: You said 'Who's on second'?
Blair: Yes, but .....
Bush: Then who's on first?
Blair: I wish you'd listen, Who'se on ...
Bush: If all you're going to do is confuse me I'll add your name to the Axis of Evil!

Bush is, always was, and always will be a cowboy when it comes to domestic policies, foreign policies, and in his attitude to the cultures of people he doesn't understand. He was right about Iraq's WMDs, but they turned out to be nothing more than Washing Machine Doors. Bush is as big a threat to peace as Bin Laden; probably more so because Bush has the really big batallions and all the WMDs he needs.

When will he learn that bullies are despised and that bringing peace is more noble and honourable than imposing civil war on an already suffering people?

Tell us what you would do instead Ronnie.

T sounds as if he is the dum dum Bush.

Sheila @ 49

There have been Jews living in Palestine for thousands of years:

"Palestinians are people with family origins mainly in Palestine. Their religion is primarily Muslim, with Christian, Jewish, Druze, and other minorities. Today, they are mainly Arabic-speaking.
Some authorities consider all residents of Palestine to be "Palestinians", while others consider the term to apply only to Palestinian Arabs (see Definitions of Palestine and Palestinians). Under the British mandate period from 1918 to 1948, the term "Palestinian" referred to anyone native to Palestine, whatever their religion; Muslim, Christian, Jew, or Druze. [1] Since the creation of Israel, the application of "Palestinian" to native Palestinian Jews has lessened, and they are now simply identified as "Israelis" and are not distinguished from the majority of Israeli Jews resultant from the modern Zionist migrations. While some also exclude Israeli Arabs from today's definition of "Palestinians," others do not. Thus the term over the centuries has largely shifted from a regional to an ethnic and a political description."

Source:
www.en.wikipedia.org/

For information, the Jews did not migrate from the Holy Island they were forciblly expelled by occupying regimes, such as the Romans and the Ottoman Empire. The descendants that managed to stay are the Palestinian Jews.

I am ASHAMED of Bush. He represents himself as a Christian. Well as a Christian myself...I don't swear! Like the "DIXIE CHICKS" said a few years ago..."Just so you know, we're ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas."

Well I'm ashamed of the President too. He is a loud mouthed idiot. Anyone in the US who sees him during comedy segments on DAVID LETTERMAN sees he has little intelligence and no culture. I'd rather see him picking up GARBAGE as being the leader of the United States.

THE IRAQI WAR IS IMMORAL - so is George W Bush. Blair should wash Georgy's mouth out with soap.

Well, somebody's votes elected these leaders! And as you can see, they are not Gods, just men/women much like us. except that they do have the responsibility to get things done, isn't that what they were elected to do?
I would also suggest to those of you who feel so concerned about the welfare of, and fair play for Islamic terrorist, excuse me, "freedom fighters",invite them to come live in your home, in other words put your money where your mouth is. Or better yet, pack your kits, and ideology and join the people's democratic republic of islam, where you will be required to act on your beliefs, rather than spout off high moral sounding rethoric, and think you fool us with your faux intellectual drivel.
Whether you know it or not, or would admit it if you did know, Islam is your worst nightmare come true!

Hi AJ 45,

There is no way that the Labenese are going to get rid of Hezbollah, as they are too strong in the area a state within a state has been created.(A joke really but that is the reality).

This has been a problem long outstanding, nobody has done anything about it, except play the usual lip service, which you know and I know will not work.

So affirmative action is required to correct this, unfortunately if not resolved quickly we could end up looking at having an extended battle field right across the Middle East, envolving all of us.

The UN is one way to go but we have already troops in there, and what are they doing and what is their present mandate?

I am afraid to say that Israel once again is to do the deed, and I feel equally sure, she is non to happy about being classed as the Ogre in all of this, remembering there are both sides at fault here.

It is not Lebanon, Isreal, or the Palastinians it is the whole Middle East question, and how to resolve it with so many factions running around, different religions with differing views of how they want to see things happen in their particular societies.

For over three thousand years this region has been fraught with wars and the mass exodus of people escaping oppression, nothing has changed both in rhetoric and ideals,the only thing that has changed is the "Black Gold" contained under the sand, and who controls that, also not forgetting the Huge array of weponery that seems to be in ample supply.

Feelings and memories run deep in the Arab World and also in Israel, and they never forget. I don't envy anyones job sorting this mess out, but something must be done sooner now than later.

All governments must step in here and I mean all. And put some stability back in the region and stop this continual debating in the UN, and get a firm resolution on the table NOW! and acted apon.

And the first thing on the agenda is to send a clear warning to tho

A clown with too much rouge an a drunken poppet,
What a couple !!!

John , Texas. Yeehah !

So you had a couple of buildings blown up 5 years ago about 1500 miles away from where you live. Can you tell us a bit more about Islam , please ?

As for Lisburn boy , well I'm not going to even bother.

Are we all just going to sit here and point the finger?
Can we hope to solve a war zone that's been there off and on for at least the last 2000 years?

The Jews (as a whole) should never have been given a state slap bang in the middle east as a guilty biblical prophecy in 1945. And the reason we let them off now is because of WWII.

We shouldn't . They are killing innocent civilains and two wrongs do not make a right.

Mr.McGinty has made a small but regrettable error here. Allowing for his very poor understanding of matters geographic, even Bush would know that it doesn't take 8 hours to fly from St.Petersburg to Moscow!
According to many other press reports, Bush was speaking to the Chinese leader Hu Jintao, not Putin. It is embarrassing that Bush said to the Chinese leader that it wouldn't take long for Jintao to fly home, because he was in his own "neighbourhood". That's why Bush expressed astonishment, on finding out that it took eight hours to fly to Beijing.
He needs to renew his subscription to "National Geographic"

What this Faux pas so nicely illustrates is the level of intelligence that Bush operates with, which would appear from this conversation is not much higher than what you would expect from what Americans themselves refer to as "white southern trash". This man is obviously of limited intelligence but unfortunately has the power of the US behind him (barring the dodgy FLorida count of course, that might mean Florida at least is not behind him), which currently gives him cart blanch to follow the route that suits the USA with little regard for other nations. In most instances anyone publicly announcing that "God told him to do it" is found guilty of whatever crime they are being tried for and then sent for 20 years of analysis in a maximum security facility (eg. Charlie Manson), however following this particular revelation the offender< aka George Bush, has taken the USA (and others) into Afganistan and Iraq on the pretence of WMD. My point is I find it inconceivable that world leaders actually listen to this moron - it is about time people like Blair found themselves a little backbone and use the intelligence they obviously have TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. I do not miss the point of the issues of the terrorist or islamic jihad, or of wish for world domination that some of the islamic clerics suggest but I do remember Donald Rumsfelt stating that all the US was really interested regard the Middle East conflict was in Arab oil.

Both Coasts of the USA are not behind Bush david. At all. It's the big thick bit in the middle that is.

By the way everyone knows WMD is a load of bollocks including Bush and Balir. It's about Oil , stupid.

Teresa

I think I'm in love

James @ 57

The Times editorial today affirms that Syria is the answer to this. Iran is arming Hezbollah with the rockets which reach well into Israel this will utlimately give Tehran the power to sabotage any Israeli-Palestinian peace plan. It is a concern in the Arab world that the "Shia crescent" is not allowed to take control - this will also adversely affect Syria.

The Time's solution is for a diplomatic coalition of states which must include Egypt, Saudi and Jordan to pressure Syria into stopping Hezbollah and "permanently spiking their guns".

They also say that although Bush was talking Texas speak and not diplotmatese he has the right idea about Syria's influence.

Do all inhabitants of Israel have the same voting and representational rights? One citizen, one vote, based on area of residence, and no weighting of any kind? Are all women equal to all men? Do new residents/settlers have tyhe same democratic rights as old?

Is it true that Israel is a Democracy? If so, it brings democracy into disrepute.

You are so right, Marie Antoinette. I personally know practically no one who voted for Bush and am mortified that he represents us to the rest of the world. Obviously, there are many millions of US citizens who feel the way John from Texas does -- those people and the ones who were scared by threats of terrorists overwhelming the US are the ones who voted W in for another four years. The war in Iraq is immoral and wrong. There was no threat to us from Iraq, and to cite 9/11 as a reason to invade was a disgrace. As for WMD, George W. Bush is THE weapon of mass destruction, in my opinion.

sheila 49:
"Further, Israelis, not contented with what they were given, have taken, illegally, the West Bank. This thuggish behaviour can't be justified even on grounds of security. What a shambles! Israeli's should be thankful for what they have and return their illegally acquired lands now."
Similarly to today's crisis, in 1967 there was a provocation that led to the Six Day War.
*"Palestinian guerrilla attacks on Israel from bases in Syria led to increased hostility between the two countries."
Further background:
*"When the State of Israel was formed, the Arabs attacked Israel (see Arab-Israeli wars), and the partition plan was never adopted. Following a truce, Jordan remained in control of the area and annexed it in 1950. Israel subsequently occupied it during the Six-Day War of 1967."
It is often offered as an explanation for terming Israel an agressor that Israel is occupying land which they offensively and aggressively took. That is not the case. The occupid territories are those which Israel captured in defensive actions after they were attacked.
No amount of "spin" can alter the facts.
The recent rocket launches and capture of Israeli soldiers were also designed to provoke Israel. The "spin" now is to color Israel as overreacting and as intentionally acting as a agressor, when in fact they are defending themselves as a sovereign state.

also, sheila 49:
"What a shambles! Israeli's should be thankful for what they have and return their illegally acquired lands now."
Israel was formed after the defeat of the Axis Powers in WW2. The Arab nations sided with the Axis. I would imagine that the Arab nations should be glad the Britain and The United States and Allies did not occupy (legitimately, since they were the victors,) a great majority of the Middle East.
One reason Israel was formed was because Europe did not take care of its econ

I'm outside your fornt door Brian with a can of petrol.

There is a scene in Terry Gilliam's, "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, in which Sting, in a cameo as "the heroic officer", is brought before Jonathan Pryce, the mayor of the city beseiged by The Turk. The mayor ascertains that the hero has done great things in defense of the city and has saved the lives of many of the citizens. He then orders the hero executed! Why? "This sort of behavior is demoralizing for ordinary soldiers and citizens who are trying to lead normal, simple, unexceptional lives. I think things are difficult enough without these emotional people rocking the boat." Seems to me that to a great degree this is what we have in Bush/Blair bashers.

Your a pillock T; and what are you talking about Harry? It would seem that Bush and Blair are not the only two cranks in the world.

What do you guys know about ISLAM - nothing! I have not read such middle class rubbish in my life. So called apologists for WW2 and the aftermath. And to listen to these pinko liberals in the USA blaming the mid west - give me a break. I know these kids chop off their legs!

Yes, we have all the credibility in the world contrary to popular belief. That is the reason countries line up against us. It is a check and balance system. Be glad we are here and willing to do the dirty work you have no stomach for. Harry from Deleware has hit the nail on the head. And for those of you who still have not clued in on what is really going on, Iran has orchestrated the Hezbollah actions in Israel/Lebanon in sequence with the G8 conference to switch focus from their nuclear ambitions to the conflict... and, to a very large extent, it has worked. It looks as if Neville Chamberlain spread his seed far and wide across a once great nation!

How do we know that it was Iran? I'm not believing it.

Mustafa 72:
"What do you guys know about ISLAM - nothing! I have not read such middle class rubbish in my life. So called apologists for WW2 and the aftermath. And to listen to these pinko liberals in the USA blaming the mid west - give me a break. I know these kids chop off their legs!"

Unfortunately, a lot of what non-Muslims in the West know about Islam is only the bad press such as suicide bombers who commit atrocities in the name of Allah. Islam has been hijacked by extremists. It is up to moderate Muslims to define what Islam is.

I do have a few questions concerning your post.

What is inherently wrong with being "middle-class?"
What does "pinko" have to do with a liberal political stance?
What does "I know these kids chop off their legs!" mean? I am unfamiliar with that turn of phrase.

And finally, if you have the time, if you could define Islam for a non-Muslim, how would you do so?

Martha; if there was'nt an America and despots like Bush, there would not be terrorism.

Marie 74, take your blinders off!!! The leader of their country has denied the Holocaust happened and vowed to wipe Israel off the map... as one writer earlier wrote, "look past the headlines."

Brian 77, terrorism is much older than Bush's presidency. As we have witnessed for the last 20+ years, complacency and looking the other way DOES NOT WORK!

The historical Marie Antoinette couldn't face reality either ... that's why she had her head chopped off. The ultimate bimbo!!

Susan , being middle class means not realising Mustafa is a wind-up.

Ditto 80.

I'm rich, upper class and you can all go eat Ramala Olives

78. What holocaust ?

Let's suppose Scotland elected several IRA members to parliament, and permitted that group to operate unchecked on its southern border with England, including six years of hurling rockets into Yorkshire. England would: 1) roll over and play dead; 2) take it to the UN, which would as usual do nothing; 3) go in there and clean the scum out. Which do you think would happen?

Maybe we should send the Governor of California on a tour of Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Palestine and all other countries where they breed hatred and suicide bombers. He could probably get the job done and be back in Sacramento in time for breakfast. Oops - no - if any of his private converstions were made public, all the lilly-livered whiners would have a heart attack.

Scott 79. I accept that terrorism is older than Bush's presidency but my point is that when you have economically and military stong capitalist states like America who demand more and more of the scarce world resources creating inequalities between nations and people; you then are going to engender resentment amongst the havenots which creates recruiting grounds for terrorist groups.

Yes, Brian but there is always an elite.

The Scotsman headline plays to the issue of politics. I am extremely disappointed in the publication.

What President Bush stated off the record is consistent with his public statements. Direct and to the point, which has more integrity than the other politicians . For them the norm is to say what they precieve the audience wants to here at the time.
I am impressed with Pres. Bush and PM Blair's consideration and thoughtfulness to each other, if other polictical figures treated each other in a similar fashion we would get things done and the world would be a better place.

There was no mention in the article about the profound negligence of leaving the mike on, nor who was responsibble.

Marie Antoinette. I accept that there is always an elite in any political/economic system but there have always been greater inequalities in capitalist systems than in other systems such as communism. Look at crime rates in capitalist countries around the world. That gives an indication of how unjust the capitalist system is.

I couldnt' really care Brian.

Thats the spirit!

Capitalist system unjust? Don't make me laugh. Try living under Castro in Cuba, on a diet of rice and beans for ten years because there's no meat in the stores and anyway you couldn't afford it if there were. Under capitalism, you get the greatest good for the greatest number. That doesn't mean there won't be poor people, but trust me: there are far fewer of them, and the poor DO have opportunities if they want to take advantage of them.

Brian @ 40.

"E M of Glasgow; what planet are you living on? Do you really think that Bush rules a classless society in the USA. He is a part of the class system. How do you think he came to power; it certainly was'nt because of his intellect but because he was rich enough to "buy" power. Since Bush became president, the gulf between "have's" and "havenots" in the USA has widened has it has under Blair in the UK"

I'm someone who has lived most of my life in the US, and for the last few years, have had the privilege of living here and believe you me, the have and have not gap in the US "ain't nuthin" compared to the gap I see here.

In the US, one is able to attain success IF they work for it. Don't try to talk to me about a class system in the US, mister. I was a single mother of two with very little formal education and we wanted for NOTHING because I worked! Oh... but then, gee, I had enough initiative to work two jobs and see my children educated through University and both of them doing very well for themselves.

Here? LOL Here I strugle to live in a neighbourhood where people normally DON'T work and instead spend their time drinking, doping, and keeping those of us that DO work awake all hours with their anti-social behaviour.

So what planet are you living on? LOL

If the anarchists or the fundamental islamists had their way, the erudite ruminations of Brian and Marie would cease as its difficult to think and speak when your head is separated from your thorax.

Nicely put Brian 86. However you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the terrorists are capitalists in the business of making war for profit. Not in the sense of a mercenary but in business nonetheless. Why do you suppose, after all of the billions of aid dollars poured into "Palestine" the people there, by and large, continue to live in squalor. Remember, Arafat was an extremely wealthy man when he died. And no, he did not die a "martyr's" death. He died the death of a wealthy industrialist. The terrorism taking place today is state sanctioned by Iran and Syria that prey on the"havenots" to do their bidding in the attempt to expand their power base. So, Brian, where lies the despot?

Facinating stuff. Well said, Jane (comment 35). It's all getting a bit out of hand though! Let's not forget the issue. 100s and 1000s are dying out there and Bush and Blair can trivialise it - that's disgusting - total shame on our leaders.

Perhaps if Bush would look at the state of his own country and start addressing the issues of real need among the poorer of his people he would have less time to stick his nose where it does not belong.

Bush will never be the president Clinton was, and to smoke screen this he is trying to play the international hero. Never mind how many people bury their sons and daughters, whether they be US or UK army, or innocent inhabitants of the country he chooses to interfere with. Back off US.

It is more just that every member of an economic system eats rice and beans than a system where the rich probably got rich and are getting richer off the backs of the poor whilst millions of the poor rely on soup kitchens as they do in the great U S of A. We in the rest of the world really could not care less that you Americans stab each other in the back but stop plundering the rest of the worlds resources for your own greed.

Oh and PS - Martha - yes, we would love to live in a world without the US jumping to "protect our sorry asses" - it's just an excuse for playing the big bully. A role the US is VERY good at. And please, stop showing your ignorance - what has Scotland got to do with the IRA.

Your comments remind me of a recent trip to New York, when I told a taxi driver I was from Scotland, and he told me "Boy, you do speak good English"

You lefties need to have a good hard look at your view of the world and correct the distortion. If the West is going to survive the onslaught of Islamists we need to develop resolve and start pulling together. Thank God for GWBush and the willingness of the US to step in against those nutters. And thank British, Canadian and Australian troops (and the others) for helping to exterminate the terrorists.

Blairs like a over excited puppy at his first training lesson, jumping up and down trying to please and get the attention of his master.
Quick quick throw the stick THROW THE STICK!! (pant pant tongue hanging out the side)
Perhaps he need castrating to help calm him down?

E M 93. If the USA was so great, what are you doing living with all the down and outs in Glasgow?

Eloquently stated Peter.

Brian @ 101

Nunya business.

Lesley 98... now that's funny!! I do love your city by the way. I've told my wife I would like to retire there. But please, try not to confuse bully (Hitler) with reluctant participant (US). All rhetoric aside (Martha), the fact of the matter is, the United States of America has bailed not just the UK out on more than one occasion, but all of western Europe. And luckily, I'm quite sure we will continue to do so.

Interestingly enough, all of these posts started as a result of an article about Tony Blair and George Bush having a normal conversation.

Failure to merely state facts and honest opinions in a kind way has resulted in abusive and offensive remarks being made.

Well done.

When the common people cannot communicate in a civilised fashion and perhaps learn from one another or see an alternative point of view, then what hope have we that the beaurocrats can do any better?

Em. I note that you managed to bastardise the english language whilst living in the great US of A. I guess that you could'nt cope with the pace after a couple of weeks work there and have now taken to drink and drugs whilst sponging off the British welfare system.

Rant on Brian.. .rant on I say.

Keep me amused. =D

Tis often the case, when one has failed to address the issues and realises that their arguments are worthless, they result to personal insults which hold no truth within them whatsoever, Brian... rant on mate... I'm looking forward to seeing you bared from this. =)

And why would I be barred (not bared) EM?

EM 108, don't start making too much sense because then Brian moves on to what he thinks are easier targets. If he can't successfully argue his point or is countered with a more educated response, he moves on. This has been my experience with him in the last couple of hours. He has read the liberal talking points and spouts them quite well. Problem is, there's no substance to it... just rhetoric.

Hi AJ 64,

That comes as no surprise AJ, but let us now look at who the money boys are behind all this, by the looks of it you are nearly there in possibly guessing.

Yes, I also agree that the Shia flag is not allowed to fly say over Macca, but that is not their religious homeland it is in Iraq, but that is only a part of the problem.

Regarding Egypt and Jordan they have enough problems with all of these radicals without having too much involvement, and Jordan previously had enough of the Palastinian equation years past, during the previous kings reign as did Bahrain if memory serves.

I cannot see them having much influence as Iran is now flexing her muscles in showing who is top dog in the region, now that Iraq is no longer top dog.

Syria will continue to agitate as it does, unless they are reigned in and Israel has hinted as much by sending warnings over to the Syrians, to keep out of it.

No chance there as both Syria and Iran are in bed together over this and are allowing Hezbollah and others to do their dirty work.

President Bush will not reign Israel, as he has enough problems with Iraq and now Iran, so really I cannot see anyway out of this as the door of compromising is being slowly shut.

President Bush is well aware of the Syrian involvement, but he cannot open this further, as it is better for the Arabs to sort this out by themselves, but again that looks not being very successful. So AJ here we go again.

The west including Russia and China will have to come in over this, but as we have dug a big hole for ourselves in Iraq, they I am sure both Russia and China will just sit back and let events unfold.

The question of keeping our oil supplies lines open are vitally important personally speaking, if we did not have oil presented in this equation the position might be entirely different, who knows, as the plot and counter plot keeps everyone guessing as to the outcome.

My personal feeling are

Finally, living proof of what the more astute members of the human race have long suspected: Bush and Blair are the Beavis & Butthead of world politics!

And what intellectual sense have you made in this debate Scott; very little I suggest. Your assertion that the USA has bailed out the UK and the rest of Western Europe is the biggest load of twaddle that I have heard. You Americans are just parasites on the rest of the world and I would'nt mind betting that many of the world's citizens would like to see the demise of your country. You Yanks are so far up your own arses that you actually believe the shit that you espouse.

Steve 112, I ask you this... How long has Blair been PM? Bush wins two elections (nevermind the rhetoric to the contrary)?... the reason they are so successful, and please do not blind yourself that they are not, is because all of you "enlightened" people continue to underestimate or, as George would say misunderestimate them. Keep doing your good work in very trying circumstances gentlemen and let the vocal minority continue to chatter away!

Brian Brian Brian... Three words nimrod... The Marshall Plan

Please bear in mind that if it weren't for the US, you would be the smallest province in the Soviet Empire right now. I could say that you brits suffer from such a chronic case of inferiority complex that the success of the USA really rubs you raw. But, alas, I have met too many decent brits to say such with conviction. So, In regards to my "intellectual" addition to the debate I will quote myself which, you amazingly failed to respond to. Think hard, I'm sure you will come up with something.

"Nicely put Brian 86. However you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the terrorists are capitalists in the business of making war for profit. Not in the sense of a mercenary but in business nonetheless. Why do you suppose, after all of the billions of aid dollars poured into "Palestine" the people there, by and large, continue to live in squalor. Remember, Arafat was an extremely wealthy man when he died. And no, he did not die a "martyr's" death. He died the death of a wealthy industrialist. The terrorism taking place today is state sanctioned by Iran and Syria that prey on the"havenots" to do their bidding in the attempt to expand their power base. So, Brian, where lies the despot?"

Brian (113) I agree completely, but would perhaps not have put it quite so bluntly!

And, Scott, I love your city too. It's been beautifully rebuilt since its almost total destruction by your own people!

Further Scott, may I remind you that the European civilisation has been looking after it's self for a lot longer that the good ol' US of A has been in existence (a mere 230 years!)

should bush be let out on his own every time he opens his mouth he wins the foot in mouth award for diplomomacy

It is very heartening to see such an involved exchange. Regardless of the diametrical views there is likely some good to come out of it -if not just being able to express ourselves! Until now I always had a soft spot for Eastleigh! As regarding STEPH 30, well, where does one start. As I know Ethiopia lets go; the importation of these poor souls was simply to feed the need for cheap labor. Some people would have done anything to get out of this ravaged Country they, -and the thousands still (to this day) housed in camps awaiting "repatriation", -were used. One great irony was how many Muslims were taken! The drivel about babies being thrown in the air is just another dramatizatiopn of the "feel sorry for me" story. Regardless of how badly some war prisoners were treated it has nothing to do with Israel's illegal occupation of Arab land. It has a lot to do with how they have savagely treated the Arabs since the settlements began in the 30's. Since that day the Arabs have protested and fought back, the International community -basically Britain and the USA- ignored their plight due to the substantial influence wielded by many Zionists. It was a mess, it is a mess and it always will be a mess until the Arabs are treated fairly ( perhaps an oxymoron). As is clear, many extremists realize this will never happen and see no option but to strike out whenever they can. Ironically, the United States has the power to resolve this issue but it does not fit in the the current "master plan". In fact quite the opposite is true, and to make matters worse the solution is in the hands of a man who doesn't even know how far Peking is from St Petersburg!

Yes, it has been beautifully rebuilt. I agree completely. And the most amazing aspect of it's renaissance, is that we paid for it ourselves. I can only look happily on the fact that neither Scotland nor England has ever engaged in sacking it's own towns or killing it's own people throughout its long and illustrious history of "looking out for yourselves."

Thank you so much for setting me straight Lesley... I have seen the light!

However, isn't it amazing that so much can be accomplished in "a mere 230 years." Even more amazing is that such a high level of greatness can be lost in that same amount of time.

I think everyone in the world should be given a vote when it comes to choosing an American President. Why not, if the American President is proclaimed as the "Leader of the Free World"?

I for one would prefer the leader of my free world to be able to formulate a coherent sentence.

What a buffoon!

James @ 111

Good points as usual - I agree about the oil - take that out of the equation and the picture becomes totally different. World interest in the Middle East would then not be shackled by the need for oil. We need to find alternative energy sources, instead of having to court radicals with control of much of the oil reserves.

Just one point to all those moaning about the US - Scott is right, without their assistance in WW2, most of us would not be here debating (or arguing in some cases) about this issue. In addition, if the US had become 'Fortress America' after 9/11 as some wanted - then Europe would have been in a much more precarious position today. If you want to try your luck in a radical Islamic country, such as Iran don't let anyone stand in your way. I'm sure President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be delighted to welcome you.

Listening to the actual conversation between Bush & Blair was just hilarious. Poor Tony was the ideal Mr Hubba Bubba. As for the Expression on his face it was priceless - did anyone observe Vlad standing behind them listening with his hand on his ear-piece. These fellas made Abbot & Costello look like amateurs. I see one of the contributors here had the same thought as they quoted an A & C movie line.
About the current issue in the middle east between Israel and Hezbollah / Lebanon. Why is it that no one bothered to mention that the Israeli soldiers were engaged in a firefight ON LEBANESE SOIL and that there were 20 of their soldiers were wounded, 8 were killed and 2 captured - the key - ON LEBANESE SOIL. Apparently the Israeli's were looking for an excuse to widen the conflict and take world attention away for the destruction currently being done in Gaza so who cares how much of Lebanon is destroyed and how many civilians killed in the process. Folks, some of the contributors are masters and mistresses of hate and that gets us nowhere. One person (David) read a book by a female professor and he became an expert on Islam and Muslims. There are 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide folks and the extremist elements make up an extremely small percetage if that population. I have had the pleasure of studying most major religious since I was a youth and there is good in all religions just as there are extremist elements. Look across the border at Ireland and all the killing between Protestants and Catholics - we don't have to go far to find hate. It's everywhere. However state sponsored hatred and bigotry is something quite different. Steph discussed the residents of Israel - are the Ethiopians Jews and are they really accepted by all in Israel Steph - NO. The 1.5 million Arabs that are Muslim, Christian and Druze that live within the borders of Israel - what are their rights? Can you please explain why if a non-Jew is married to a Jew they can never receive

Have they gone now ?

Thanks Allah for that.

See the silly scots hate everyone. don't give them any power at all , they are the most rascist scum on earth.

I'm off to watcth shakespeare and eat Baby palestinian Hands in a fondant and amused BBQ sauce .

Scott. The USA's role as the world's super power has, thankfully, run its course. Keep an eye on China; within time she will be the domineering power.

Who let him out without Condi or Laura ?

William 118, why would he need to know how far it is from St. Petersburg to Beijing? (You are going to lose your liberal card using such non PC imperialist names like Peking you know...)

I'm shocked at the gall that most Britons and Scots have been displaying in calling Israel an "illegal and racist state". Israel was created by the English...and yet so many in England seem to forget this point, and blame Israel's mere right to exist on the US.

And in calling it a "racist state", things couldn't be further from the truth. Israel opened up it's borders after it's creation to every person of Jewish faith around the world, no matter what race, creed or color they may be. The same did NOT happen with the +/- 650,000 Arab refugees that were scattered around the middle east when Israel was created. The surrounding countries kept the refugees seperate, not allowing them to integrate into local culture, and by doing that created a huge group of people...whose numbers have swollen to over 6.5 million, who have grown up and been taught generation after generation that Israel and ONLY Israel is responsible for their lot in life.

There is also a VERY short memory about the attempted partitioning of the region which the Palestinians refused. There could have been a true state of Palestine for the past 50+ years had they not rejected Israels right to exist.

I still fail to see why Jewish and Christian Zionism is a vile, evil thing while Islamic Zionism is viewed upon as their "God" given right. And I only put "God" in quotes, as the "God" of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims is after all the same higher power.

And using the candid comments of our leaders to set off yet another anti-American, anti-Blair, and anti-semetic tirade just goes to show how much racism there is in the world.

And people fail to see the importance of world leaders being so informal with one another. Our leaders are only human, can only be held to human standards, are far from perfect, and yes, they will talk casually with people who they are friends with.

That is what the media and ever

You have finally made a salient point Brian. When that time comes, and China does rule the roost look back longingly at these days! Because in your scenario, we will not be there to check them. And know that the UK will not be able to do so... China is not Argentina. Oh, and let's not forget India. They are well on their way also.

I think William should be first on the plane to Iran.

All the Oil in the middle east is scotland's anyway. When the english fought us in bloody battles about 2500 years ago , where was your Bush then ?

Aye exactly. Once we get our own parliament there will be no more of this malarkey, ahm telling you that now. I used to be up at the crack of dawn polishing english bastards faces before they went to work in their Hoity Toity money making factories and that was before this Culloden nonsense. I invented Tartan , and it was stolen fom me by the Polish immigrants. Can't even get a bag of chips from the chippy now the Chinese have taken over the Haig Poppy Factory.

And another thing. All this ranting and raving only goes to show that you are all sitting typing on the internet instead of working (apart from Brian who obviously hasn't got a job).

THATS why the chinese will take you over USA. They are not allowed to look at EBAY or Porn all day.

blah de blah etc etc.

EXTREMELY well put Big Joe!

Big Joe , the idea of an Israeli state was actually put in place by a scotsman. thats actually true by the way
:)

Britons and Scots Big Joe; Scots are Britons and they also speak English very well. Did you attend geography classes with George Bush? It gets funnier by the minute. At least the Chinese are a clever people.

another thing big joe - they allowed in anyone who was JEWISH. Thats a bit rascist is it not ? Or are you mental and can't read your own writing?

Bloody right Dugall MacGrumpy. I've done my bit for society. I'm now doing voluntary work by upsetting the Americans and trying to change the world order.

Actually the Britons were an ancient race that mostly inhabited wales and what is now known as Wessex.

Big Joe @ 127

Good post but please - it was not the "English" who created Israel - it was the British who held the mandate. There were servicemen from all parts of Britain serving in Palestine at that time.

"In 1947, following increasing levels of violence together with unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, David Ben-Gurion tentatively accepted the partition, while the Arab League rejected it. Attacks on civilians chiefly by Arabs but also by Israelis soon turned into widespread fighting between Arabs and Jews, this civil war being the first "phase" of the 1948 War of Independence.

The State of Israel was proclaimed on May 14, 1948, one day before the expiry of the Palestine Mandate."

Source:

www.en.wikipedia.org

Brian - a LOT of Scots do not identify with being Britons...myself included. It was an intentional comment that will ring true to many. If the statement was above your head, which it apparently was, there is no need to go on the attack on a personal level. That will just create yet another off-topic arguement.

yes but I still maintain that Britons were an ancient race that inhabited wales and what is now known as wessex and i didnt even have to look at wikipedia , i just used my memory.

oh joe , you were nasty but slightly superior in your answer there. That's whats known as intellectual snobbery so you should just have called Brian a big fat fish instead. That's what you meant .

And to MacGrumpy of the Insulars - People of all levels of intellegence and education continue to incorrectly refer to people of Jewish faith as a race...not a religion. The Jews are not a race...therefore the Jewish state can't be racist.

Religion is the cause of so much of the war, violence, and attempted genocide throughout history. Yet most people tend to focus on race...as it is the easier scapegoat.

Big Joe. Whether or not they identify with Britain; the fact is that they are British. All passport carrying Scots, I should imagine, have a British Passpost. Also, did you read the earlier post about a Scot visiting New York and how the yellow cab driver was amazed that the Scot could speak English. As I said in a previous post; God bless America!

CA, Canada you sad border huddling individual , how could we possibly have a vote on another Natioin States presidency? That's not allowed , shame on you in your liberal , cold , democracy.

Israel had a rough go from the get-go thanks to UK's elitist racist waffling and Arab hostility. The heat is being turned up gradually and now she has new enemies, including the cool and quiet arms peddling Russians who reportedly quietly moved their Black Sea fleet to Syria last month! You didn't read about that in the West though! Where do you think Hizballah is getting the rockets? Look at the photo guys. Who is hovering and obviously listening behind Bush and Blair while the mike is "inadvertently" turned on? I agree that Israel has a right to defend herself. It will be interesting to see if the "international community" lets her though. Last time she beat back Hisballah in Southern Lebanon she should have stayed there and really cleaned house.
But no, the big shots in the West screamed unfair and she went home with some lame excuses for it.
Some of you think the USA is a bully? Try that suit on Russia for size. All Putin thinks about is increasing his oil and gas power, then using it to push his weight around. And keep in mind who did the recording. You can't even trust that the words weren't tinkered with. Anyone in a tense situation looks for some casual conversation to ease the stress. Some of you, who cannot even find a way to obey the rules of this blog site for your crude dialog have no right to criticize.

Dougal; you cannot refer to Americans being intellectual; the two do not mix.

Ah, there was me thinking that Big Joe was OK, but heyho, he's just another expat Scot who doesn't like the English ................. but won't live here to fight with us properly like Duguld Macgrumpy does! Respect Duguld.

Don't tell me Big Joe your family was evicted by the evil English a couple of hundred years ago and you've been blaming us ever since.

Ah well, I suppose we'll just have to live with it or alternatively not give a toss about it and just go out for a pint with our Scottish mates instead.

ok joe, you are techically correct that singling out people solely on faith is not rascist. But throwing people off their land which they have farmed for 1000's of years .. what is that called ?

David , Putin has obviously just let out a huge fart and he is hoping that Blair will get the blame for it.

Look again.

Continued....
The current Prime Minister of Iraq - why is he not on trial for accessory to murder of the people of Dujail. After all he sent them to assasinate the president of Iraq - Saddam. He knew that if thew are unsuccessful that the reprecussions would be terrible for them. I forgot - all terrorists who are friends of the west are democratic after all.

Back to Israel and the Jewish people. One of the contributors said that the Ottomans expelled the Jews -WRONG - the Jews were expelled from Palestine and Jerusalem by the Romans and Crusaders in general. Jews were welcomed back to settle not only in Palestine but in all lands controlled by the Ottoman Empire. Folks - please do your home-work before making silly and hateful remarks. The only pre-condition for settlement was that all peoples under Ottoman rule "obey the law of the land". Palestine remained under Ottoman rule until after WW1 and the Jews enjoy the longest period of peace in their histore - over 4 centuries.

Now, I have a silly question for all and especially for the Jewish readers - what was the extent of the hatred for the Jews in Europe and what was the sentiment of the UK after WW1. Was the Balfour declaration of 1918 a promise to find the Zionist movement of Europe a home or a tool to get the Jews to leave voluntarily? This was followed by 30 yrs of destabilization before a Israel was created and Palestine - a centuries old land torn apart - thank you Arthur Balfour and the UK.

Think about it - Palestine is a small country and how in God's name was the two peoples going to fit in that small piece of land? Oh yes, let's expel 3 million Palestians and confiscate their homes and create a land for the Jews. Imagine that 60% of Scotland being sent into exile from their own homes.

What would the Scots reaction be to the UK? I guess we are too chicken to put up a fight for "our" homes and what would our ancestors think of us.

Now imagine

Brian, have you ever been to New York? If you have then you probably know that the cabbie was most likely an Arabian, Persian or African immigrant. Not very many cabbies in New York that were born in America. And answer me this Brian. If America sucks so bad, why are so many trying to get here?

Dugald, you are hilarious but you forgot to mention to CA the recently uncovered plan by Islamic Extremists in Canada to capture and behead their PM.

AJ, I never said that I don't like the English, just that I dont' identify with being a Briton.

Dugald,

throwing people off of their land that they have farmed for 1000s of years is called progress (cold and heartless, I know) and let's not pretend that it has only happened to Palestinians!

I think I'll go out into the garden and pick lettuce. At least that would be more productive than reading all this drivel.

Thats because you are not a member of an acient RACE which inhabited Wales and most of what is now known as wessex Big joe.

Hey bulldog didn't the Highland chiefs kick people off of their land that had been worked by them for, at the very least, hundreds of years?

I think Ill come and live with you on your lovely island Gemma. I have a lovely big cuddly ginger beard.

And why Scott, do more per capita come to the United Kingdom.
?

Socialist Healthcare Brian Socialist Healthcare! Oh and evidently free use of the internet at the local pub!!

I'm not sure who is in charge. They both sound fairly confused. I really feel sorry for Blair and Putin though, they have to figure out what Bush is talking about and actually give him an answer. We just enjoy the utter confusion he throws at everyone. You do know that he only has an IQ of 92. It shows. While he's extremely embarassing, he is very entertaining.

No probs Big Joe .....................

Bulldog:

Jew is also defined as a race and Judaism is the religion.

"Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people."

source:

www.en.wikipedia.org

Duguld: Sorry, to quote again but I haven't got your amazing memory for facts. There is an Earl of Wessex is he a Briton?

To John/You are naive and worry too much about your back pocket if you actually think he is a good president. It's time you joined the human race and develop a conscience.

Like most Americans Emily.

Oh sorry Bulldog that post was for Big Joe it was him that said that Jew was the religion and not the race.

Just for the record (Scott 151) my cabbie was a native New Yorker - believe me I know the accent!

And CA 120 has a point, perhaps if the we were all allowed to vote for the "Leader of the Free World" there would not have been the fiasco of the 2000 election when it took days to get the results! I was there at the time and my colleagues were mortified!

Keep it coming lads - am lovin' this!

The earl of wessex is infact wee Jimmie Crankie.

See it all fits.

Sorry guys, these online polls , discussions , whatever you want to call them are just a way to rant and rave and ultimately don't ever lead to anything. That's why i make fun of them.

I had a feeling that Dugald and Wee J had something in common.......... its the Fan Dabi Dozi way you tell 'em

Mike #29, I think he felt the need to tell the intelligent one who she is, lest he might have forgotten (again?). Have you heard the saying Bush for brains? It just takes on a very weird, surreal meaning here.

Aye , but ye ken lassie Leslie...
if you tak the high road
and I tak the low road

how are we gonnie get to scotland wi nae roads,and will you get there before me ya wee bonnie lass if the cooncil builds tram lines instead of roads

Oh , I would walk 500 miles and I would walk 500 more
And if i did i'd up in the sea cuase there wouldnt be Briton land no mo o oar.

brian, please don't judge all americans by Bush, most americans I know are horrified by him (ah hindsight)
I am ashamed that while people are dying our "world" leaders are discussing sweaters

you know , my wife decided to spray paint the units in the kitchen while i was at work. she's made a right arse of it and there's silver metallic paint all over the new lino.

Think I will go up a Munro and stare wistfully at the horizon.

Talking about the British Healthcare system where people are treated with dignity and respect; is it true Scott that in the great U S of A; when a person, for example, is unconscious following a road accident, they are searched to established whether or not they are insured before it is decided which hospital to take them to. Is that what you Americans call a caring society. As for the the use of the internet in the pub; I think that is a cracking idea and will be writing to Tony Blair about in the morning.

It IS a nice sweater thiough jackie, c'mon. a lovely shade of blue to go with Bush's recovering alchohlic watery eyes.

Duguld, the lead singer of runrig and Wee J K are one. Foiled again Wee J - you little un PC scamp!!!

But Jacqui; how many millions of Americans cast their vote for dumbo Bush?

How is Bush allowed to spend billions of dollars on fighting phoney wars when his givernment cannot provide a decent free healthcare system to the USA's poor?

As the Irish would say; its a great craic.

I am not Jimmy Crankie ! Or Jimminy Cricket to our american cousins.

Hang on I think Eastenders is just on, they are funny english people and I laugh at them. Brian are you Keef ?

John #56
Islam is your worst nightmare? I have friends who are muslim that would never harm a soul. An insane need to to control others harm others. Bush bought the first, we all know that. He frightened enough in to voting for him and bought off the supreme court. Past history, nothing can be done about it now. He's nuts and he's stupid, but he's a 'good ole boy' and all the other good ole boys in the US thought it'd be refreshin' to have language they too could understand instead of a brain. At Bill W. could multitask.

Old Bill Clinton was a great president except that he did'nt know what sexual relations meant. Oh God please help us lost souls.

Emil , Johh is long gone. Talk to us. We are nice people. Did you ever go to old mexico?

Runrig, yes it is lovely, looks like a Pringle. Could it be he has fallen off the wagon?
Brian by decent you mean waiting a year for a Doctors appt ?
Yes,Bush was voted in, but by a lot of people who were terrified by 9/11. Not realising the hypocrisy of a man who is against abortion due to the sanctity of life but is for the death penalty.

Oh no . They have a BAD SCOT on eastenders and she is a dirty Tart.

Brian 113 Most of us don't believe it and wish out illustrious leaders would shut up and lead for the people here at home that need decent health care, jobs, and a better education. That's why we are all in this. Our education systems suck, your's too. I read.

I heard that Bush eats babies too.

Our education system is wonderful. That's why we can tell the age of people in supermarkets when they go in to buy cigarettes, not like in Oregon where they ask 37 year olds for proof of ID.

so i heard anyway.

I will give you that Brian 172. When I said Socialist Healthcare, I wasn't necessarily condemning it. Although there are less than ideal situations in your Healthcare system as well. And yes it is true in some cases that injured people are subject to such things before being transported. I have neither said nor intimated that we are a perfect society. Far from it. But I do choose to live in the real world where pie in the sky sounds nice but is not practical. Tough unpopular decisions are necessary and I for one am glad that someone is making them. (the Bush's IQ is 92 thing is an urban legend. He had a higher GPA at Harvard than did John "I Have a Plan" Kerry although neither were stellar) The pressures of that office are unimagineable by any of us here. Take a look at Bush's picture when he was running in the first election and look at it now. The man has aged 15 years. I could ask that you simply respect the office if not the man but can't since Bill Clinton ruined that simply by not respecting the office himself.

And about the pub, I do believe we have stumbled onto our primary diffference on how we view things. While you immediately think to write Blair about the free internet access I immediately think about an opportunity for business. It's not up to the government to make our lives easier/better. That, Brian is up to us!

Scott , stick out your ass time.

Why don't I have a go about your treatment of 'Native Americans' and let you justify it.

GO smell the roses my friend and have a nice day (really). Don't let us sophists get to you.

Here endeth te lesson for today.

YES , it is my website.

Emily, you can trace the decline of our education system back to the inception of the Department of Education when liberals were firmly in control of the American government. Since then we as a society have moved away from a classical education and quit teaching our children how to think and stated teaching them what to think.

Yes Marie, I go to Juarez just across the border on a regular basis. The people are nice and I buy meds for my daughter that are extremely overpriced just 40 miles away. I buy her contacts there as well. Now, I don't admit to buying the zoloft, just the contacts, as the customs agents will confiscate meds. I guess the optomestrists don't have great lobbyists in DC as do the pharmacutical companies. The agents don't look too deeply int a bag as long as you're a upstanding looking harmless, white lady. Unfortunately it's the truth.

Marie, I have truly enjoyed the dialogue and you would get no argument from me on the treatment of our native Americans. I will point out, however, that that treatment was initiated by the... ENGLISH settlers before we were a country. Of course that is no excuse for how they were treated later. Kind of reminiscent of how the Celts and Picts were treated... huh? Or how about the Indians in India... or say the Palestinians in Palestine... Shall I go on?

Jacqui 182 - you voted him president in the year 2000 - 9/11 was nearly one year later!

SCOTT !!! I told you I told you and then you went and done it !!

Jeez man , please. We've all done bad things let it go.

Apart from me of course.

Actually , do you think that there is a gap in the US market for a truly International News/discussion Channel ? Is there one , Scott ? I couldnt find it. CNN is not one of them.

I don't think americans are stupid, far from it . Met lots of very intelligent ones.

Scott, Why is it then that the over 80% of all educators are white and are in the profession for the vacation. I'm not talking about democrats either. This doesn't come from the university level. I know, I teach there as well as work in the public schools. I hear what teachers say about the migrant, the poor, the minority, the special needs. Why don't you wake up and realize this is a universal problem and if it wasn't for bleeding heart liberals like myself, there wouldn't be schools at all.

Actually the earl of wessex is Prince Edward and Dugald is quite right Britons were an acient RACE which inhabited Wales and most of what is now known as wessex, we are now known collectively as British ie: from Britian ( which fyi) is made up of four seperate nations, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales hence the Scottish, English ,Irish and Welsh. and btw if you were born in america you ARE american no matter who or what your forefathers or mothers were.

Sophie , you just made my day :)

Ken From Rainblw Valley:
I Know there is something in your water south of Buckey, but that is no excuse for NOT reading that exchange. DO YOU REALIZE WHAT THEY WERE DISCUSSING, AND THE LIVES AT STAKE?

Of course Marie!

Did I not stick my ass out far enough?

Please be aware that I am immune to the "Chewbacca Defense"

Yes, we have all done bad things in the name of "progress." However, you and your sophist in arms ;) Brian only like to point out the evil that America has done, is doing, will be doing in the near and distant future etc, etc...

Granted, be pissed at us launching fast food on the world but don't condemn us for things long perfected by others in the room.

Lesley, I did not vote for him at any time, and I do believe there were some issues with the "voting" system in 2000. Just ask Al Gore

Has there ever been a 'war' where no 'innocent victims' are killed?- where only the 'non-innocent' are killed? And who are the 'non-innocent'? - young soldiers? old soldiers? Gov. Officials?

Brian, old man, have you wandered over here from the World cup site? Has Lucifer popped up yet? Do you ever do any work.......... or do you just blog away on the web all day long?

Scott, was that before the War of Independence or after that the naughty English did horrid things to the Native Americans, or was it the newly independent America that really did it. It went on for ages after the War of Independence you know and I'm sure John Wayne was still fighting the Injuns when I was at school!!

Alas Scott we are at differing ends of the politicak spectrum. Although I am a realistic and know that a utopian society is not possible; I do believe that a society has a duty and a responsibility to look after the less fortunate members of that society. Thats why I hold dear the policies that the UK has endorsed in the past but which now seem to becomoming more privatised such as free health care and education systems; access to the justice system through legal aid,etc. All citizens of the UK over the age of 60 have free access to public transport in their local area which allows them mobility where they might not have been able to afford the cost of transport previously. As for free internet access in pubs; most local authorities in the UK do provide free internet access in public libraries to all age groups. Policies such as free travel and free internet access address issues such as social isolation and mental illness by encouraging greater social inclusion and cohesion. I, for one, do not mind paying extra taxes if the
money is spent on the less fortunate members of my society and not on inane wars.

Hi AJ,
I am quite aware that Jew is a race and that Judaism is a religion. My question to you then is the following:

What is the treatment and social status of the Ethiopian Jews that were airlifted to Israel.

What is the treatment & social status of converts to Judaism in Israel

What is the policy of the State Of Israel towards non-Jews that are spouses of Jewish Israeli citizens.

What is the status of the non-Jews - namely the Christians, Muslims, Druze and Pagans who are citizens of the state of Israel.

Hatred Breeds Hatred

The end result and it's like the boy who cried wolf - except in this circumstance the fair-skinned Israeli practitioners of Judaism is screaming - why does everyone hate us - what did we do when they despise even other jews who are either darker, the russian jews that migrated, Christians, Muslims, Druze and yes there are still a few Pagans left.

What does Hatred do again???

Sock it to 'em Sophie or as the Americans say, rather vulgarly, "Kick Ass"!!!

Glad to be of help :D

Sorry Jacqui - by "you" I meant the American people and you must have missed my comment at 165 - I am very much aware of the 2000 "election"

Have a good one Scott, look forward to chatting again.

Ok Bulldog i may be completely showing my ignorance here but if Jew is a race where is their home country ????

Emily, my wife is a public educator. I taught High School history for five years. I've been there so please climb down off of your soap box. One of the biggest problems with our education system is that methodology id being taught by people who have not been in a classroom other than a college classroom for upward of 20 years, if ever.

And I thank God every day for all you bleeding heart liberals because I know that if you were not around schools would tomorrow, cease to exist. Yawn!

Hi Nigel. Where have you been. Have'nt heard from Lucifer for ages. I think he/she (cant remember which) might have taken up religiion and is now a skirk wearing, caber tossing jock or jockette.

Brian,

I did briefly, glimpse Lucifer on another blog on here but he only made one insane post and disappeared - I hope the poor chap's not lost his bottle.......... it could be that he only pops up, to share his wisdom with us, when it's Scots v English on a footie blog or some rant about independence for everyone.

I will always remember him, as he was, walking off into the sunset with his trident in his one hand and a deep fried Haggis in the other ........... Ah Happy Days!!

Nigel, these were English colonies for how long before the Revolutionary War [that's what we call it over here ;)] Roughly the same amount of time we have been an independent country. Hmm...

Dugald, you are an attribute to you country.

Best Aye!

Yes, Scott but you will concede that John Wayne and all the other cowboy chaps were fighting the Injuns for ages. I'm sure John W was a real American because he sounded like one when he said "Put my hoss under here". What fun we had at Eton trying to walk and talk like John, Big, Bad John!!!

Lesley, i missed your post As much as I now hate to admit it , I did feel reassured by Bush in the days after 9/11. I disagree with most of his policies but the speech he gave a week after 9/11 on the pile of rubble that was the twin towers , made me feel a little safer . Now I know better

Brian, take care and hold onto your idealism. That way, you may truly change the world order. I wish you luck on that one. I've enjoyed our debate as well as that with Marie Antoinette. Can't say as much about Lesley... she just sounds bitter.

I'm off for a Newcatle!!

Bush is a mediocre oil businessman, and Cheney and Rumsfeld are businessmen running everything with their neocons. Bush and Blair were trying to converse under those circumstances, and we need to figure out how to promote world peace under those circumstances. Stop hating Americans, we need to work together. More than half of us did not vote for this administration (and knew a great deal about it at the time), and we need your support as we work for balance, cooperation, and peace.
Superpowers come and go, am not sure China is the next one, we may be surprised. India is the fastest developing now and is expected to be the leader economically. Meanwhile, watch us being very nice to China: they're financing our deficit.
Think I'll have rice and beans, the perfect protein. Why is someone from Miami trashing rice and beans?

You don't think that he choked to death on his fried haggis whilst walking off into the sunset do you?

Bon Soir Scott

Nigel,

Sorry I missed you. We could have had fun... though I was woefully outnumbered I was up for the challenge.

I'll check in from time to time if for no other reason than to get Brian's dander up.

Oh, I'm not 100% positive but I dont think John Wayne really ever fought any indians... ;)

That may well have happened, Brian, it could have been caused by him tripping over his skirt as he walked past his oil well, (remember he said the oil belonged to him) he was chewing his deep fried Haggis at the time and wasn't looking where he was going and he fell in. Never to be seen again. RIP Lucifer............

I don't like Bush and think he's an idiot, but I don't see the point of this article. So Bush said S---- oooooh, the horror. Yes it's Hezbollah s***
I think Israel has a right to defend herself. If Mexico was throwing bombs on a daily basis into the US, how long before troops would be washing their feet in Cancun? Or say Italy was chucking bombs on a daily basis into France for example? Although I can't really see that happening (Italy throwing missiles into France, the Italians can be quite silly but not deranged idiots like Hamas, Hezbollah et al and all those who support them, say what you will, the Palestinians voted Hamas in overwhelmingly, that's support of a terrorist organization, and don't give me crap about legitmate right to self defence and opression, if it were true, Native Americans would be blowing themselves up in New York, so would Native Austalians and a long line of people dealt with unfairly in history) , and no the Lebanese are not blameless, they've voted Hezbollah into government positions.
I used to be liberal, almost communist. I changed my mind with the whole anti-Israel attitude on the left. I'm not rightist either, I've just come to the conclusion that both left wing and right wing are a bunch of wankers.
Hezbollah is backed by Iran, coincidence that just as soon as there was going to be a conference on Iran's nukes, Hezbollah rears up like a skanky dog? I say Israel get in now, cause if Iran gets nuclear weapons, Hezbollah will get them.
This is something I don't understand, if ETA/IRA etc are murderous people, why are the Palestinians so noble? I think the Basques have historical reasons for doing what they do, yet no one supports them (including me) yet it's different for Palestinians.
And if it's okay for Arabs to blow up Israelis according to opression etc (a point I disagree with but that's beside the point) I wonder why Africans arem't blowing up Arabs for all the horrors inflicted throughout the cent

God bless Lucifer.

What happened to the Bush/Blair debate that we last talked about several hours ago?

Crikey, Anni sounds angry doesn't she Brian ........... that's not our old deep fried Haggis munching, skirt wearing, caber tossing chum in drag is it?

Brian I think you scared everybody off

Right your are #96: Lesley from Edinburgh, Bush on his worse day, could not be the president Slick Willie Clinton was on his best day. Old Dubya might not be an intellectual giant, but at least he thinks with the proper head, the one above his shoulders not the one below his waist. You socialist twit, or twitter whichever the case may be!

I've cracked it.

Balir is saying to Bush ' You make that monkey face at me again and I'll smack you one'

Putin is not really one for a swedge so he's making his 'nutteronthebusnutteronthebus' face.

What, a nice placid approachable guy like me Jacqui?

What you mean Lucifer might have been deported to Spain Nigel?

You do make me smile,even on days like this

Anni cannot be Lucifer; she did'nt mention deep fried haggis.

Compare the everyday conversation of the regular people here on this web site to Bush and Blair. That short audio clip respresents what went on all weekend at the G8 summit, and what goes on and has always gone on at every such summit.

Here, in the everyday conversation by everyday people on this web site, you find intelligent dialog and debate with depth and serious consideration of many complicated issues. There, between prominent world leaders whose job is to represent the best interests of the people who elected them, you find ineptitude.

Democracy is a myth, isn't it? Israel, Iran, Hizbollah, Bush, and Blair just proved anarchy isn't.

It's simple -- "stupid is as stupid does", I mean really, why are we so surprised by a man with an I.Q. that equals an insect? 8)

I'm glad that I spread happiness all around the world.

Six years later, I am still perplexed why my fellow citizens elected and re-elected such an obvious idiot to guide our Country through this dangerous and complex world. It was obvious during the very first set of Presidential debates, that Mr. Bush had a grasp of history and current affairs equivalent to a high school student with poor grades. He couldn't even articulate his simple view of things. I am para-
phrasing Will Rodgers when I say that one of the great, but most dangerous things about the U.S.A. is that any man can become President.

I'm guessing thats your main aim in life.

The transcript

Bush: Ooh OOh OOh

Blair: Stop it ...

Bush: Ooh ooh Ooh

Blair: No, no, no, you monkey faced cu... (inaudible)

Bush: I wanna be like you oo oo

Blair: Are you planning to say that here or not?

Bush: If you want me to.

Blair: Cut out the monkey shi...

Bush: I just want some bowel movement.

Blair: Yeah.

Bush: Yesterday we didn’t see much movement.

Blair: No, no, it may be that baked potato(e) you had it may be that it’s impossible.

Bush: I wanna walk like you , talk like you

Blair: Look shut it

can people explain to me why they take life so seriously when we only pass this way once?

What Bush said in supposed privacy is exactly what he has said in public (sans s**t). He is right - for once. However---WHAT TABLE MANNERS! Don't talk with food in your mouth, Georgie!

Brian @ 233,

Good point, Brian, but ......... it could be Lucifer being incognito and trying to deceive us ......... he could have been eating the Haggis as he tapped away on his PC.

What is actually going on in the picture is a game of musical chairs. Vlad is out, that's why he's sulking, Tony got to the last chair first, but obviously said "oh, no George, you're much more important and strong than me so you have it, Oh Great Supreme Ruler of the Universe.. Jacques isn't in the picture because he got disqualified for cheating.

TO JACQUI - #182 - If you can't tell the difference between and innocent unborn child and a convicted murderer you are the problem. I don't care if you don't like the death penilty. At least that 1 killer won't be doing that again. I think Bush is a fine president and if he didn't have to take sh*t from people like you, he would be even better. GROW UP!!!!!!!!!

brian, maybe not enough love from their mums ?
I think they are both saying holy sh* t "the wives and Condi actually let us come here alone !"

Changed my mind Brian, I think he's moved to the USA and it's (whisper) Michael

Hi Michael. Want to play?

Michael , actually I think I commented on the the whole sanctity of life thing ! Can't have it both ways

All fine and well Michael until you are arrested and convicted and fried for a crime you didn commit. Its' happened before and it could happen again. To you.

YOU grow up..

Jacqui, is Me Again, you again or is it someone else?

nope jacqui is just jacqui

It's me. Dugald/Marie Antoinette/T etc. Isnt the innernet wunnerful?

Who rattled Michael's cage? and just as we were being nice to each other

It is interesting that is the comment you chose to post on.
Didn't realise that I was hindering Bush , guess I'll leave him to it then.
Brian, still smiling!

Good grief ............ so it was all just a cunning plan Duguld/Marie A/etc etc to pretend to be someone else. Spiffing wheeze, sort of prank we used to do on the playing fields of Eton. I've never thought about trying to be anyone else on the internet ....... just me Nigel the chinless wonder from the South East (the posh bit obviously)!!

Nigel, did you mean that Jacqui is mean again in relation what mean again meant when she answered Michael as mean again? What am I talking about; the stress is getting to me and I'm cracking up. Where is Lucifer when you need him/her.

Did you play "wall games" at Eton Nigel?

As a Yank, let me apologize for our moron president and his moron supporters logging in here. There are Americans who believe Bush is wrecking this country and the world, and who are not brainwashed into the Neo-Conservative ideology.

I'm going to be in Glasgow in just over two weeks. It's always good to be out of the country when Bush is president.

Calm down Brian, old man, no I don't think Jacqui is mean (Michael's been a bit mean to her though hasn't he.......... I think he is 'you know who' starts with L......sorry Anni)

I thought that Me Again was Jacqui blogging twice but it's not its our old chum Duguld, Marie A etc - they've all been the same person, it seems. Can't imagine why people pretend to be someone else on here.............. must just get my Butler to bring me a stiffner, sounds like you need one as well, Brian.

Micheal have you ever travelled outside of the USA

Thanks for sharing that with us Thomas but don't worry we don't blame you ................ we've got a few politicians of our own that we don't like much either..............you're welcome to take them back to the US when you go home if you want.

A bottle of Bushmills and a grate of Carling my good man.

I did'nt mean that you were mean if you see what I mean Jacqui.

Thanks, Its been nice playing but I have to get back to being a grown up and make dinner !
Thomas can you pick me up one of those twisty things from City Bakeries. ?
Sorry didn't get a chance to hear back from Michael.

Can we all come round for dinner if we promise to behave ourselves?

Yes but only if you bring be a nice blue sweater

Jacqui, enjoy your dinner ............ I always have my cook make me a small repast about this time of night, too. Quails eggs, caviar, smoked salmon, glass or 2 of Krug .......... just a little night time snack....... you know the sort of thing and since I've been touching base with Lucifer I often polish off a rather nice deep fried Haggis as well!!

Wonder what, our friends in power, Tony and George are having for dinner tonight.

I will knit you one know jacqui!

I'm tired. I will knit you one now Jacqui. Thats better.

I went to school near Eton Nigel; Middle Street Comprehensive. Going to have a plate of eggs and chips and a glass of stout.

Nigel, I think that we are the only two left; all the Americans have gone for their dinner. No stamina some people.

Night Brian, perhaps see you on another blog - you need a laugh these days. Who knows, Lucifer might join us then we can really have some fun....... the mad freedom loving rogue that he is!!

Thanks guys you really did make me smile , I did not mean to trivilize the original article with the lighthearted stuff , but I just spent all morning listening to husband on the phone to find out if his life is insurance in valid if he gets hurt on his trip to Tel Aviv next week. IT was good to have a break Goodnight all

I will have to agree with many here with their comments. There are too many to make comment. Some here have a political view while others talk of religion. I live in the US now and find that nearly every type of religon os practised here. So to make comment about watch out for the US is ludicris.
Obviously not everyone here feels the same. Not everyone voted for Bush, and if you know about Democracy in the US then you will know that not every State is equal when voting either. The state I live only has small voting power and makes but a dent. If there were no borders then you would judge a man by his actions not the race or the place he lives. Don't make that mistake.

Planet's goin to suck and we got Bill and Ben rapping the talk! How much longer are you Brits gonna tolerate lapdog boy?

Let me thank you all for an entertaining session. Much have been introduced into the topic that have spun out to other issues that could have been debated separately for hours.
As a Hawaii National, let me slip in my opinions from what I know.
Majority of US Americans:
- think Bush is a mentally-challenged spoiled brat whose backers stole the election for him twice. So much for democracy. - know His regime are responsible for putting US Americans in harm's way. - don't realize that the School system is designed to maintain the racist WASP society and government through assimilation; sales and marketing strategies, which keeps many ignorant of the factual history by persistently and insistently lying so that it has the complexion of truth till the masses believe them. - are aware that the powers that be are linked to UK and USA as the same elite. - may not remember Israel refusing admittance and citizenship to Ethiopian Jews because they were black;and that US gives $16 billion to Israel annually and helped build up Israel as the fourth largest military in the world. - don't know Brits felt the strain & cost of war against the American colonist and France, their ally, and protested for the King to pursued peace, which gave the USA its independence through the Treaty of Paris. - don't know Hawaii Nationals can identify with the character-assassination of Iraqis, the lies, US covert and overt actions, and the US invasion and belligerent occupation; that's what the US did to us and we are still occupied by the US and want our nation back. - don't know that the successor, to follow our Queen to the throne, was her niece who was half-Scot, of the Cleghorn Clan. Just tidbits to share.

Blair: Ohhh , whts tht in ur head..
Bush: This one..
Blair: ye, this f**in huge red thing...tell me mate...
Bush: well,, last friday i slipped in bathroom,, i didnt noticed there was a soap under my feet...
Blair: Damn it, mate , have u checked wht make it was...
Bush: ye,, ye , ye,, i checked the box it was made in China...
Blair: So,, that means....
Bush: No, No no,, its not the right time now...we will bomb them,,, Bast***s , its back in my mind.. first lets sort out my food poisioning issue,, with iran..
Blair: ye, ye ur rite....by the way i never tried iranian food...but ill reccomend it to Putin,, hehehe
Bush: hehe,, ye, man...

These guys are just using thre power to show off, to rule the econoy of the world. We people have to suffer..they just need excuse, no matter,, fake drwaings of nuclear areas, or democracy issue, blablabla, look to Saddam, one time he use to be best friend of USA and now, he is likea monkey in circus, they didnt killed him,, they kept him like that and bring him everytime live on TV, to show other world leader, Hey check it out, guyz,, if u dont obey me,, ull be in his place.. What kind of democracy they wanna create? Afghanistan democracy? bombarment,, no government stabblity,, or Iraq democracy,, where soldiers are raping and killing poor innocent peoples, they are not bad lads,, they r the best soldiers, but they got influinced by Bush and Blair kill mentality... Why they just cant leave middleeast alone, come outttt damn it,, leave them alone,, lets live in our own country everyone, we all love our culture, our own country,, why Bush and blair need to sew the suite according to their design for others.. PEACE

It seems that the great newspaper The Scotsman has joined the ranks of the pollitically correct HYPOCRITES. If your reporter is going to print the transcript of a conversation between Bush and Blair why sensor it. How pathetic is that. Its ok to print the word KILL but its not ok to print the word SHIT..Sad sad sad. ....Liam O'Brien

Suhail # 276 Thanks for the laugh I really did enjoy the running dialogue between bush, and blair. I dont know if it was meant tto be funny, but it is very witty. I get the message behind your wit. Keep up your good sense of humor.

Nancy # 278
So sweet,, thnx for appreciation Nancy. I prefer to include a bit of fun in my serious debate ;). after all life is short and we all are tired of being bored and tension is high, lets seek joy n love, PEACE

re 214, Scott

It drives me to despair (although it never surprises me) that most Americans really don't know even their OWN history very well. The American colonies were NOT English rather they were BRITISH (except for the period before 1707)! You're treading on thin ice contributing to a Scottish newspaper's online forum if you simply cannot differentiate between things British, English and Scottish.

hi

I AGREE WITH # 3-CA-WHAT A MESS BUSH HAS GOTTEN US INTO!!!! NEED WE TALK ABOUT HIS ADDICTIONS? B & B WILL SOON REALIZE JUST HOW BAD THEY WERE AS "LEADERS"-THE BOOKS WILL COME FLYING OFF THE SHELVES AFTER BUSH IS OUT!! WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO GET OUR DIGNITY BACK??-BUSH FLUSHED IT----WE SURE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER WAR TO "PROVE' ANYTHING! WE HAVE SO MANY ILLEGALS NOW, THAT WE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO LIVE AND BUSH FLIES ALL OVER THE WORLD TO ACT LIKE A BIG ****. THE U.S. IS IN TERRIBLE SHAPE AND B KEEPS ACTING AS THOUGH THE U.S. IS STILL AS IT WAS WHEN CLINTON LEFT. . . FOR THOSE OF YOU FOREINERS' WHO DON'T LIKE THE U.S. . . . .GO HOME!!!! I'M TIRED OF SUPPORTING YOU! NO OFFENSENSE BUT I'D LIKE TO GET SOME HEALTH CARE SINCE I'VE WORKED MY WHOLE LIFE TO GET IT AND CAN'T!! DEMOCRATS HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, NOW AND FOR THE NEXT 100 YEARS AFTER THIS ****** ******!!

# 280- ANTHONY---THAT'S WHAT BUSH HAS DONE TO DUMMY DOWN AMERICA. (I'M SURPRISED ANYONE HAS A COMPUTER LEFT TO CALL OUR OWN!) STUDENTS ARE NOT TAUGHT WITH ANY RESPECT, FOR OTHER COUNTRIES, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE INSTRUCTORS' BRING THEIR OWN POLITICAL BELIEFS INTO CLASSROOMS. MOST DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYTHING BUT THEIR PAYCHECKS HERE, AND IT IS NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER BEFORE IT GETS WORSE, WITH THE LIKES OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST 6 YEARS!

This is the 283rd remark. That means many have the odds of beating me to my number. Sure, the numbers suggest one thing. Mr. Blair and his friend Mr. Bush are AXIS OF DIFFERNERT ERA now...

'Yo, Blair!': Overheard at the G8
Published: 18 July 2006

Believe me I love this story when Mr. Blair who blind eyed went to the war to Iraq, not thinking straight, powered by the speech of Colin Powel and the show of extremity of Iraq's WMD that never there. Mr. Blair carried on talking about the '" We are on the right path; shoulder to shoulder with Mr. Bush.
The biggest joke came on the Thursday 13th July when the THREE ENROL men were picked up and shuffled in the handcuffs without a questions of why and whatever for? They were taken to USA and Mr. Blair had removed the agreement of this sort three years back thinking that Mr. Bush will see him through. Now Condi and all American are having a laugh at the English prime Minister. It is a shameful act. Time for Mr. Blair to retire.

"Yo, Blair. How are you doing?" to his use of a mild expletive to describe the morass in the Lebanon.

They were talking before the start of yesterday's working lunch in St Petersburg's Konstantinovsky Palace, unaware that they were being overheard halfway round the world by a technician who was up early monitoring a live feed for an American TV station. By the time Mr. Blair spotted the live microphone, the two leaders had unwittingly shared their private thoughts with the outside world - and revealed who is the boss.

A transcript of their conversation, compiled by Sky News, showed how Mr. Bush simply blanked out the Prime Minister's suggestion that he visit the Middle East, telling him: "I think Condi is going to go pretty soon."

Mr. Blair tried again, suggesting that the Americans could not afford to have their Secretary of State go into the region and come away empty handed, whereas, he said, "I can go out and j

you're unbelievable..... its the filth thats rushing to lebanon to bomb isreal that perpetuate this war. The Arab world have openly pledged to wipe isreal from the map, are they to sit back and allow it?..... time you took the blindfold off and considered it in an even light. Not everything the Isreali's do is right, but compared to those around them they are angels.

For the record y'all, not all of us voted for this boner. Not all Americans are war mongers and morons and not all of us are psuedo-religious idiots who use the excuse of religion to promote bigotry. We sincerly apologize for this asshat and our condolences on your own dingleberry, aka Blair. We're trying to get him impeached, but you know how it is. I mean, sure, Clinton got his girlfriend a job as an intern but he didn't make her secretary of state. Now Bush is pushing us toward a nuclear war and talking like he just passed the bong around the summit. Jaysus.

Sympathy cards would be appreciated.

To Bulldog 150

Well done!

Boy this is a heated debate, I feel that Steph is 100% correct and that Sheila is far too young to get involved in adult conversation. To the best of my knowledge every country has passports, to have one, you must have a legitimate claim to it. is being Jewish any different ? does America just let anyone in, I think not. from some of the comments this is racist. Israel belongs to the Jews who were given the land by God, This you must believe if you claim to be a Christian, can any other Nation on earth claim this.

this banter is pointless, via the "wind" we'll all be dieing soon..
Horror Of US Depleted Uranium In Iraq Threatens World
By James Denver

"I'm horrified. The people out there - the Iraqis, the media and the troops - risk the most appalling ill health. And the radiation from depleted uranium can travel literally anywhere. It's going to destroy the lives of thousands of children, all over the world. We all know how far radiation can travel. Radiation from Chernobyl reached Wales and in Britain you sometimes get red dust from the Sahara on your car."
The speaker is not some alarmist doom-sayer. He is Dr. Chris Busby, the British radiation expert, Fellow of the University of Liverpool in the Faculty of Medicine and UK representative on the European Committee on Radiation Risk, talking about the best-kept secret of this war: the fact that, by illegally using hundreds of tons of depleted uranium (DU) against Iraq, Britain and America have gravely endangered not only the Iraqis but the whole world.
For these weapons have released deadly, carcinogenic and mutagenic, radioactive particles in such abundance that-whipped up by sandstorms and carried on trade winds - there is no corner of the globe they cannot penetrate-including Britain. For the wind has no boundaries and time is on their side: the radioactivity persists for over 4,500,000,000 years and can cause cancer, leukemia, brain damage, kidney failure, and extreme birth defects - killing millions of every age for centuries to come. A crime against humanity which may, in the eyes of historians, rank with the worst atrocities of all time.
These weapons have released deadly, carcinogenic and mutagenic, radioactive particles in such abundance that there is no corner of the globe they cannot penetrate - including Britain. Yet, officially, no crime has been committed. For this story is a dirty story in which the facts have been concealed from those who needed them most

For Anthony at 280.

Semantics my dear friend. Continue to focus on the minutia of the argument so you can feel so very superior and continue to turn a blind eye to the POINT of the argument. Yes, I made a mistake and it saddens me as I turn around in my chair and look at my TWO degrees in HISTORY. My bad!!! Now run and be smug. It's obviously the only thing you excel at!

And for you Debbie @283. If you are going to enter a battle of wits, I suggest you arm yourself. You defeat your own argument within your own argument. The vast MAJORITY of public educators in this country (USA) have left/liberal leanings and yes I agree 100% that they bring their political beliefs into the calssroom. They are taught in college to teach our children what to think instead of how to think for themselves. As I have stated before, the decline of the American education system can be directly linked to the creation of the Department of Education. Do some fact finding Debbie and find out who was responsible for that. CHildren need to earn respect it is not an award for simply showing up which is what they hve come to expect. Spend some time on the teachers side of the classroom Debbie and hopefullly, if you survive, you will understand things a little more clearly than by reading the headlines of your local rag!

And yes, I suppose it is common knowledge that all the ills of this country have occurred within the last six years.

Jen, crawl back into your hole and let the grownups talk!

Scott,

Crikey, you still on here ........... they're all very serious aren't they? Frankly a bit scary ........ some of them. They need to lighten up a bit. It's very hot in the UK at the moment - the gardeners are sprinkling the lawns as we speak........it's even too hot for a game of bally croquet.............terrible. Any sign of Brian or Lucifer?

re douglass @ 17 - unlike douglass, as a Canadian I am not happy to have George Jr as our neighbour - the man's an idiot! I'm also saddened by the fact that Harper our new PM is shifting Canadian Policy more and more to the Bush/Blair camp since taking power. Although I view most politics with scepticism, I was incredibly proud when Chretien said NO to Bush's bullying tactics to get Canada to join the War in Iraq - it's tough to say no when the big, obnoxious bully next door says he is going to go beat up on some weak defenseless kid and asks you whether or not you are coming along or going to stay behind and be a "sissy"

Debbie @ 283 As a "foreigner" here, I can assure you that not one cent of "yours" has ever gone to support myself or my family. You comment re teachers is asounding, as a mother I feel it is my job to teach my kids respect not a strangers, We have five kids currently in the school system and I have only encountered one moron. In the grand scheme of things thats impressive.

marcus well said, the scary thing is what choices will we have in 2yrs.

Well said, Jacqui ........... Debbie was very shouty on her post I thought. Do you think the caps locks key is stuck on her keyboard, or do you think she was really angry and wanted to look bigger. Whichever, she needs to either get her keyboard sorted out or go and take up kick boxing or something to get her aggression toned down a bit.

Just had another look at Mrs Shouty's post ........ I think she needs to get herself a spell checker as well. Or is "OFFENSENSE" an American word? No offence, to you Americans if it is .......... but it certainly isn't in the Oxford Dictionary that I got at Eton.

Nigel, where's Brian when you need him? I think the heat is getting to everyone. "OFFENSENSE" is from the new "Yale" Dictionary edited by its most famous alumni :)

I see, is that "little ole George Dubya" .......... you mean?

Don't know where old Brian's got to - he might have been scared off by all the ranters ........ he's such a light hearted chappie. Alternatively, he's down the pub .......... eating his egg and chips and drinking his Guiness.

Sorry ...... I mean Guinness of course. Never touch the stuff myself ........ but should know how to spell it!!

Scott 290

Very definitely NOT semantics my dear friend. As I said this is an online forum for a SCOTTISH newspaper. You raised my ire so forgive me if you thought my response was disproportionate (a la Israel). That btw is what I feel about the current situation in Lebanon. Correcting you about your country's own history does not make me feel smug, just angry.

This forum is much more interesting than the last one I was on! I think it a valid point that one person menitioned that we all have informal discussions at work away from the prying eyes and ears of the public or our bosses, or both. The difference is that as employees there is no expectancy that we are to act above and beyond the rest of society. World leaders however, are. The issue is not whether the microphone was on or not. The issue is that he made the comment in the first place. It is laughable too when you consider that America has fuelled this war with Lebanon as they did the assassination of the former Lebanese leader which led to all world condemnation being heaped upon the Syrians which predictably led a movement to force the Syrian Army to leave Lebanon. Similarly, the US has been itching to get at Syria and Iran for the better part of the last three years. Ever since Bush uttered his rhetoric about an "Axis of Evil" which included Iran as one of its' spokes along with North Korea, the US has had Iran in its' gun sights. Do you know why they hate Iran and North Korea? Because they are too strong militarily for America to do anything about them without risking nuclear winter. This is why the US is so against Iran and North Korea having their own nuclear reactor. At the moment the only thing the US has over both these countries is nuclear weapons. They can't defeat either nation conventionally as Americans simply don't have the stomach for casualties. They don't like seeing their own troops blown up, shot at or taken prisoner. Which is why when it happens it leads to the US troops committing atrocities in a vent of rage similar to the one in Iraq recently. They are only too happy for Israel to be doing the fighting on the ground and having their own towns and civilians in the firing line. As far as Bush is concerned about wanting "Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this s**t", Hezbollah is doing exactly what the Americans have pr

Does anybody see that PEACE is an illusive conclusion on the WORLDS agenda.
If the WORLD were really united AND determined to stop these conflicts then a UNITED U.N. would issue some quick ultimatums on a immediate cease and desist order from the world body of United Nations. But no, war and everything profitable is more important than all the innocent lives lost and the families destroyed through this hatred supported by a non-Islamic (Persian) state threatening the rest of the world to not intervene.
Iran has the world keeping lock-step in this death march over oil and the worlds economic dependence on oil.
Somebody knows the frustration of the pain of being unwilling to make a decision that puts and keeps everybody on the path to Global PEACE.
The answer lies in a swift annihilating strike that only supports a world always in conference and not excepting any more terroristic actions even if an entire government of officials must be removed permanently.
Hell, even animals act more civilized than so-called great minds of this current WORLD BODY of Governments!!!
Self-sacrificing or suicide is exceptionable at the intelectual level????
I have yet to see these planners sacrificing themselves along side those that they train and teach act as weak minded impoverished individuals that they (suicide bombers) are appreciated for the SINGULAR act. Their families LOVE through SUICIDE???
Somebody does need to stop this S....!!!