Typical english ,probably never tasted Haggis!
Anyway who was the first side to beat the 66 world champions?

wind up or not, you are involved, so please do your best.

You are now in Scotland at NO '66 zone!

on yer sel' rab

you cook it till it is dead

hi janis, welcome aboard!

ps Brian is an insensitive Englishman or he just likes winding you lot up - and sorry I spelt yer name wrong Fraser.

hi Fraser Tell DT that English is Brian`s language (not Scots) and he can do what he likes with it

Is that you again Frazer having a go at us English?!! Peace be with you, my fellow British Subject of the Crown!!!

Does any of the English team play in the Scottish League? . . . ever played on a Scottish team?

CAN you over cook haggis?

brian court, is talking about the morris dancing world cup .

Fascinating discussion on the origins of the beautiful game. I know what haggis is, but what are tatties and neeps?

I totally buy into the concept that the Scots invented the modern world. What is it about the basic scottish character that compels us to codify and make rules for everything.

The Haggis Hunt Web cams indicate that the weather is great in Scotland today. Although, in my opinion, the weather is always great in Scotland.

Hello again Fraser! Just to say that, they are = they're.
That's as in 'they're poor or should I say disgraceful school system' Oh Fraser!!!!!

Hey, haggis isn't that bad as long as you don't know what is in it or how it's made. And I agree with Harry #25 , the weather is always great in Scotland. But then I love anything Scotland. SCOTLAND FOREVER!

I'd take haggis, neeps an' tatties over murdered roast beef and soggy Yorkshire puddin' any day. So, who's going to win the cup? Not England, that's for sure. They're playing like a bunch o' pansies. To our national shame, Scotland didn't qualify<sigh> Please don't let Brazil win again - it's too boring.

Julie Dear You think haggis is tasty ! Probably explains your judgement of Scottish weather Oh dear!?

It's been fascinating to follow this discussion, and I'm glad to see some fellow Americans harbour fondness for things Scottish. Soon my regular diet will include haggis, tatties and neeps, and hopefully also some green vegetables now and then. I'm moving to Scotland this summer.

In the fall I will go back to graduate school -- after teaching business for 15 years at the college level in the USA -- at the University of St Andrews to earn a PhD in Scottish history. My field will be the history of the golf equipment industry from the 1600's to the 1800's, but I might study football/soccer history as well.

Nice to see Brian stand up and admit to errors, since we all make them, and I will sign up Lynne from almost-close-by Centralia to the Haggis of the Month Club. I believe the first shipments feature barbecue, Thai peanut and honey mustard.

all the best,
JD

Poor Brian-
With a team like that he does well indeed to invoke St. George and other prayer. It was deja vu watching them lumber around. Just waiting to see them go down again to 10 Brazilians.

I don't follow football, but I'm intrigued by Brian's concept of its origins. Can't imagine any decent Scotsman willing to handle over-done haggis. I wouldn't. Much better to keep your hands clean and kick it along the ground. But I do enjoy well-prepared haggis, ever since my first visit to Edinburgh for the Festival Fringe. It reminded me of the meatloaf those of us from the Midwest of America grew up with. A creative and tasty way of dealing with leftovers. (Come to think about it, there are alot of Scots in the Midwest. Maybe they also invented meatloaf?) And, I'm looking forward to the next round of the Haggis Hunt. Spotted several during the last season without winning a single thing. Maybe this year.

OK maybe the book suggests that football was invented in Aberdeen, but the book was written in Latin. So maybe it was a bunch of Italiens on holiday having a kick around and the credit should go to them. Whats "free kick" or "yellow card " in Latin?

Tatties are potatoes and neeps are either turnips or parsnips. I have a Scottish cookbook so I know what goes in haggis--braunschweiger's just about as bad or head cheese/souse--and Powsoddie--sheep's head soup and yes, the first ingredient is one sheep's head, boiled and seared... and so far I think the only thing I could handle is cockaleekie--chicken, rice and leeks--onions to us Yanks.

HERE'S MY POEM

England and St George”, the cry of the day,
Bring forth the EXIT for we will not stay,
This is the time for courage and style,
but we're all wimps, so we won't last a while

COPYRIGHT 2006

Here is part 2 of my revised poem:

Ready the passion for the beautiful game,
Stow local flags without ANY BRAINS,
DON'T Rise up the standard of our national pride,
For IN ENGLAND WE HAVE A REALLY CRAP SIDE,

SING FOR BRAZIL AND TRINIDAD too,
They are OUR SAVIOURS FROM THE MEDIA SPEW ,
Rise up the SCOTS TO KICK YOUR BUMS,
For this is the Time FOR A GLASS OF TRINIDADIAN RUM.

“England and St George(the foreigner)”

YOU MAY LIKE TO KNOW THAT SCOTS MINERS IN PACHUCA, MEXICO WITH A NUMBER OF ENGLISH AND
WELSHMEN FORMED THE FIRST FOOTBALL CLUB IN MEXICO.

I believe that football started by some poor crofter letting the haggis get overcooked while he was having a wee to many drams of whisky, only to have his wife throw the hardened haggis at him. Whereupon, he heads it onto the young son who is watching all this going on, who turns and volley's the haggis into the fishing net that has just been hung up to dry. This event was practised each day and perfected into the game of football.

Just to add to Scotland's woes of world cup. Here is a little poem that I wrote for England:

“England and St George”, the cry of the day,
Bring forth the challenge for we will not sway,
This is the time for courage and nerve,
The victory is ours if we do not swerve,

Ready the passion for the beautiful game,
Stow local flags without any shame,
Rise up the standard of our national pride,
For, it’s with England that we now stride,

Kiss the cross and Three Lions too,
They are the strength to see us through,
Rise up the Team ready for play,
For this is the Time, This is the day.

“England and St George”

Brian Court, May 2006 ©

Brian at no. 1 could do with some lessons in the English language. Someone teach him that as well.

I'm sorry Diana. I'm subject to the crown and for me that's no problem. I feel like a kid caught with his wee handies in the biscuit tin every time you write to me.
as i said before there are many english people i like and i've travelled around there too and there are many lovely places, it's just the footie and sports teams i can't abide.

I must confess. I done this as a wind up, and it worked ever so well. I apologise if I have upset anyone. However, it did get you going and it created quite a few comments. BTW, I did make a couple of spelling mistakes,

Regards,

Brian

We scots find talking with the English very difficult as their lack of reasoning ability is noteworthy. This is due to they're poor or i should say disgraceful school system. We scots as good humoured fellows are willing, though to condescend.

Hi Fraser & Brian who like me hasn`t had the advantage of superior Scottish education Diana too missed you yesterday Cheers

I love all of the squabbling between you Scots and English. Of course we all know how the US did so I cannot comment on our skills.

To annemhood@btopenworld.com you don't need a website but you do need a sense of humour. And happily, you certainly have that! Good! In just a few hours (Toronto time) I will be sitting a maze of English flags lusting for T and T and my sense of humour will prevail. There is room at the table, care to join me?

For Robert in France: "pedis ictus gratuitus" or "pedis ictus liber"---sorry to say I don't know much about football. The first means without penalty and the second mean unrestricted. But "yellow card" is definitely "flava charta."

If, indeed, the game was invented in Aberdeen, my ingrained Aberdonian instincts lead me to protest vigorously against giving it to the rest of the world. We should have charged for it!

I take it back I was turned down on my comment last week in such a situation. Anyway I am having to go back 40 places to read again what it was all about but most entertaining esp at 0700 when I only got up for a quick look at my mail.

I am having to live with ST George flags flying in one's face - IT IS SAD.

The explanation - I am from Ayrshire, lived here 10 years since I retired as a teacher but most of my English friends wouldn't dream of flyingthe flag and few of us watch the football. Fairly saving in electricity as there isn't much else on the Telly.

It is hard to watch one P's and Q's after all those comments .

Re: #37 Leeks are not onions to anyone!

If the truth were to be known, football originated at a clan gathering in Scotland. A large dumpling was being carried to the table, when it fell off the platter.
It was then kicked by a clansman and then another. What started as a group of men kicking a dumpling has now degenerated into a group of dumplings kicking..................

For Diana & Fraser(#'s 18, 28 & 47): Actually, the "there/their/they're" you want is "their", the possesive, not "they're", which is active (unless, of course, you mean that the english are poor in the monetary sense, but then the rest of the sentence doesn't work. So...) For Bill & Dedra (#'s 37 & 46): Leeks actually ARE part of the onion family, and can be used interchangably in some dishes, including cockaleekie soup. These comments are really getting better than the article! Thanks for making my day, y'all!!

Anyway, I think the whole soccer/football argument is not funny really but kinda humorous. I live in a state where I 'should' root for the Chicago Cubs but I don't live anywhere near Chicago so therefore I should be a St. Louis Cardinals fan but I'm not one of those either. I like the Atlanta Braves which is in a completely different section of the country. I understand this support queen and country jazz but if my team wasn't in the match why would I go out and support the opposition? With that said, I do readily admit, Americans suck at European football. Maybe we should hire some Scots players to come over and do one of those whip them into shape reality shows. It's about the only thing they haven't turned into a reality show over here...

Scots did indeed teach the English how to play football. The superiority of the Scottish style over the English style is shown in the results of the early international matches. After 16 matches against England, Scotland's record was:

W10 D4 L2

The English were keen to learn how to play the game they invented and the top clubs started importing "Scotch Professors" to show the English how to play the game the Scottish way.

If the Scots had invented football oh boy would they be regretting it now!

diane you noticed my error, well done!!
Thank you for this.

Why do I need to have a web site to comment ;here?

Football, like golf and cricket, is claimed to be invented or whatever, by the French. ( Much as the Welsh claim whisky as originating in Wales, the product being hijacked by those in North Britain).
The French might well have thought up some rules for football, (they are very good at this Viz:- Senor Bueneparte and his 'Code Napoleon'). As North Britain was a De Facto French Province for a considerable part of the 16th century they would have had a considerable input into such things.
The rules to football are in the habit of being changed, at what seems to be a whim, especially if big money is involved, viz:- substitutes, etc.
What really matters is who first kicked the spherical object and when. One can presume that spherical objects have been around since before Pontious was a Pilot, but when did some one decide it was a good idea to kick one around with his/her mates.
The Greeks and Romans had Ballista balls, so may be they got the idea from the way these bounced about after being shot at some barbarian or another. The Aztecs, Maya, Chinese and Japanese all have a form of the game the practice of which goes back century's past.
The main English claim dates back to the aftermath of one of Alfred the Greats battles when a Wessex Fyrdman with nothing better to do started kicking about the severed head of a redundant Viking. Somehow or other his comrade Fyrdmen seem to have got involved, but it is not mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicals as whether or not they passed it forward and shot it at some form of goal.

I think this gives insight that the Scots gave the world two of the best games ever, football and golf.

Now, enlighten someone who rarely watches any sports at all, but why is Scotland NOT in the World Cup? Was it like a round robin elimination deal or what? And are the national teams made up of a conglomerate of all the individual national teams like an All-Star crew or is it one particular team chosen to represent the entirety of the nation? I know, I know... I should stick to tattie droodle. But these are earnestly asked questions not smart alecky ones.

Now, enlighten someone who rarely watches any sports at all, but why is Scotland NOT in the World Cup? Was it like a round robin elimination deal or what? And are the national teams made up of a conglomerate of all the individual national teams like an All-Star crew or is it one particular team chosen to represent the entirety of the nation? I know, I know... I should stick to tattie droodle. But these are earnestly asked questions not smart alecky ones.

Dedra: Stop asking difficult questions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dedra, what's tattie droodle? That's a new one on me. Now you've got my curiousity working in overdrive. Oh, yeah. I'm a sports orphan, too. Later.

For Lynn, it was tattie drottle not droodle, sorry, misspelled it. It's basically potato soup--4-5 medium potatoes, 1 leek, 1 onion, salt and pepper, and 1/2 pint of good creamy milk. Now my granny puts celery in her potato soup as well as butter but it's the exact same recipe as this other than that. It's to be served with oatcakes and can use left over mashed potatoes and parsley for alternatives.

Thanks G Michael (#36/#39),
I really didn't think I'd get an answer on that.
Merci!

if you are talking about great scottish food try the Aberdeenshire dish skirley. fried onions in oatmeal

it is no suprise that fitba (football) was invented in Scotland along with so many other great things. as for 66 we know they paid the ref. the reason for there being no good football players in scotland is the english move up here and put up "no ball games" signs in every street. as for the queens english im a republican and a nationalist britain stinks free the scots !!

To Dedra # 52
Seeing as no-one else has answered your question as to why Scotland aren't in the World Cup finals, I will.

If you are following the competition now, you will have noticed that the teams are split into 8 groups with 4 countries in each. Each of these 4 teams plays each other & the top 2 in each group progress through to the 'sudden death' knock out stages.

To reach the finals, the teams had to play in a similar competition. Places in the finals are allocated by continent - so Europe has so many places, South America so many etc. Within the European section, the countries were again split into groups of 4 or 5 nations & they played the other countries in their group twice (once at home & once away). The top team qualified automatically & the second placed teams competed in 'play-offs' ie a knock out phase for the remaining European places. In Scotland's case, their group was won by Italy & the 2nd placed team was Norway who went into the play-offs but didn't win though these. Scotland finished 3rd in their group & so failed to qualify.

As to the teams, the best qualifying players are chosen to represent that nation. The team they play for in domestic competitions is not important. No individual team could be selected to represent the country as nowadays they are made up of players of various nationalities. To qualify for a national team, you need to have been born in a particular country or have a parent/grandparent born there. An example of the latter is the Trinidad & Tobago player Chris Birchill who was born in England & has lived there all his life but his mother was born in Port of Spain. I think you can also qualify if you have lived in a certain country for so long (I'm not sure how may years are required) - I think I read somewhere that the England player Owen Hargreaves qualified for 3 different countries - Canada where he was born, England where his parents come from & Germany whe

Thanks G Michael,
I really didn't think I'd get an answer on that.
Merci!

Richard of Mintlaw (58)

I love skirlie! Sticks tae yer ribs.

As a Welshman married to a Scot even I'm getting fed up with the 'we invented everything' and 'let's hate the English' rubbish coming from north of the border during the World Cup in which you (and the Welsh) are not a part - god knows what the English must think of the sad bitterness. 'We invented the passing game' lament (no, the Hungarians did) is now followed by the 'we invented soccer' angle (the English did). Who cares? I think I'm now amongst 45M people south of the border dying to see 'I hate England' Andrew Murray trounced in the first round at Wimbledon to rapturous silence. But will be amongst the 45M south of the border hoping Scotland do qualify for the next World Cup so we can cheer on fellow Brits.

As a Welshman married to a Scot even I'm getting fed up with the 'we invented everything' and 'let's hate the English' rubbish coming from north of the border during the World Cup in which you (and the Welsh) are not a part - god knows what the English must think of the sad bitterness. 'We invented the passing game' lament (no, the Hungarians did) is now followed by the 'we invented soccer' angle (the English did). Who cares? I think I'm now amongst 45M people south of the border dying to see 'I hate England' Andrew Murray trounced in the first round at Wimbledon to rapturous silence. But will be amongst the 45M south of the border hoping Scotland do qualify for the next World Cup so we can cheer on fellow Brits.

Report as unsuitable

Mark, a few simple answers to the question of why do most Scots NOT support England in the World Cup. Live here for a wee while and watch the games while listening to the most arrogant, obnoxious group of commentators and media who are convinced England only have to turn up, mention 1966 every single day (unbelievable) and are the biggest critics going when they finally get turfed out, which has happened every WC since 1966. And listen to BBC Newsreaders badgering every Scot they interview as to wether they will support England. Why should we? have you a shortage of fans? Are we English, thought not. I would never support my own Club rivals, why would I support England in the WC. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the English players, I don't necessarily wish them bad luck, I just don't SUPPORT them. Fair enough.

Re Mark (64)

Typical!
When the English do something, they're "English". If the Scots do something, they're "British".

WELL....I SUPPORT THE ENGLISH TEAM IN THE WORLD CUP AND I REALLY ENJOYED THE MATCH WITH SWEDEN ...THEY DID A GOOD JOB....AND BY THE WAY ENGLISH INVENTED FOOTBALL...AND WHEN I SAY ENGLISH I MEAN BRITISH (ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH) BOTH ....BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE SAME COUNTRY(UK) .....SO PLEASE FRAZER AND BRIAN DONT ARGUE (U ARE BOTH IN THE SAME COUNTRY SAME QUEEN SAME EDUCATION) ....AND BY THE WAY AMERICANS DIDNT INVENT ANYTHING ....AMERICA WAS DISCOVERED 500 YEARS AGO...AND SHE WAS RULING ITSELF 200 YEARS AGO....SO THEY WERENT INTO SPORTS OR FOOTBALL!!!!