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South Ossetia looks to mother Russia in Georgia-free future

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Published Date: 26 August 2008
A BIG poster of the Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin, greets visitors to the capital of separatist-held South Ossetia – a clear signal of what most residents hope is to come.
As both chambers of Russia's parliament passed resolutions yesterday urging the Kremlin to recognise South Ossetia's independence, South Ossetians overwhelmingly agreed – with many here seeing independence from Georgia as the first step to becoming
part of Russia.

"Ossetians have no doubts – we'll only be with Russia," said Robert Bestayev, 36, a South Ossetian military communications officer with a tiny Russian flag on the lapel of his grey suit.

While Russia's formal annexation of what is considered Georgian territory would further split Moscow from the West, South Ossetians see incorporation into the Russian Federation as a way to guarantee they never come under Georgian rule again.

Most here recognise that South Ossetia, by itself, is too small – it's about 1.5 times the size of Luxembourg – and too poor to survive very long on its own. "We'll die without Russia," said Yuza Valiyeva, a 58-year-old nurse. "What is independence? Who would protect us if were are independent?"

The war has brought relations between Russia and the West to a post-Cold War low, and the Kremlin would certainly raise tensions further by recognising the declared independence of South Ossetia and another breakaway Georgian region, Abkhazia.

The South Ossetian president, Eduard Kokoity, said his region's independence was indisputable. "We have more of a right to recognition than Kosovo," he told Russian MPs.

Anatoly Pliev, a law professor with the South Ossetian Humanitarian University, sees a benevolence invisible to many in the West. "Russia has been the friendliest superpower in our history," he said.





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  • Last Updated: 25 August 2008 9:43 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 26/08/2008 02:40:22
ah, finally a little of the other side's story
2

Postmark-55,

China, 26/08/2008 05:31:25
And most Tibetans look to China the same way, they know that they cannot survive independently and would fall into the hands of the ruthless Dalai Lama and his equally ruthless gang once again.

Isn't it amazing what your hear when you actually talk to people on the ground, which this reporter going by the name of Yuras Karmanau obviously did.
3

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 26/08/2008 06:08:35
What no storm of protest from the anti-China cabal? How strange.Just wrote on the Two Taleban post in answer to Cackling Mushroom Guga (check it out Postmark)
The ITV reporter "roughed up" at the Olympics outside the Chinese Ethnic Cultural Park. (a cheap front page story for ITV)The 'protesters'chained bicycles together to deny folk access to the park. Was it coincidence that the park has been featuring an exhibition for some time showing Tibet prior to 1950?
Among the photographs are ones of the Dalai Lama visiting Mao in Beijing, lauding him to heaven for what had been achieved in Tibet.A Tibet it might be noted which the Dalai Lama has NEVER wanted independence from China. Is it not strange that in nearly 60 years not one country on the planet has recognised Tibet? Also on dispaly is a poem written by the Dalai Lama himself heaping praise on Mao. Am I missing something here?
Have the protesters a) Shot themselves in the foot by protesting there? or b) Did they really not want anyone to see the TRUTH?
That the ruling nobles kept 95%of Tibetans in slavery, regarding them as two legged animals. Now why would they do that?
4

Itchy,

26/08/2008 06:26:41
"and would fall into the hands of the ruthless Dalai Lama and his equally ruthless gang once again.
"

A communist attacking others for being ruthless. The effrontery is breathtaking.
5

Mashimaro,

China 26/08/2008 07:10:30
#4 Itchy, I have refrained from commenting on your nonsense little jibes because I have better things to do with my life - like watching grass grow. However... Do not confuse communism with any singular form of dictatorship. There are plenty of dictators who are not communist. There are also plenty of "democracies" and "capitalists" who kill and torture, rape, murder, plunder and generally cause misery to billions of people throughout the world for their own ends. In fact that is what America is trying to do right now and thank god China and Russia are strong enough to reject it.
6

Neil,

Glasgow 26/08/2008 11:55:01
"South Ossetian president, Eduard Kokoity, said his region's independence was indisputable. "We have more of a right to recognition than Kosovo," he told Russian MPs."

That is certainly undeniable.
7

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/08/2008 12:41:02
Russia formaly recognises S. Ossetia independence.

http://news.smh.com.au/world/russia-recognises-south-ossetia-abkhazia-as-independent-20080826-431y.html
8

Gere,

Scotland 26/08/2008 13:42:39
Post #6 Neil, Glasgow

Well done, there is no logical counter to that one!!!
9

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 26/08/2008 21:16:28
Seems like I've just rolled into China Central.

What is really important is what S.Ossetians want. Do they want sovereign independence or do they want to be part of Russia? There needs to be some sort of clarification on this. And what of the vast amounts of Georgian civilians in S.Ossetia? Are they to be ethnically-cleansed out of the country?

If the vast majority of Kosovans want independence then the same should be granted to S.Ossetians. The big problem was it happened with military might.
10

James Donald,

Newbridge 26/08/2008 21:52:15
#9 Andrew BOD,Aberdeen/shire - "And what of the vast amounts of Georgian civilians in S.Ossetia? Are they to be ethnically-cleansed out of the country?"

From the BBC:

"WEST CONDEMNS RUSSIA OVER GEORGIA"
"Earlier, the head of European security organisation, the OSCE, Alexander Stubb, accused Russia of "trying to empty" South Ossetia of Georgians.
A South Ossetian commander told the BBC that many Georgian civilians had already left of their own accord, because they were scared of the guns".

Perhaps the Georgian civilians are scared of the guns because they are being pointed at them. Abkhazia will also be "cleansed" of Georgians prior to these "independent" states being incorporated into Russia.


11

Mashimaro,

China 26/08/2008 23:12:58
Jimmy Dee: wow you sure spout the "party line" hmmm. Since when did "ethnic cleansing" include "pointing a gun" at someone. And second... do we know that the Russians did this to any civilians? Because if they were not doing it to civilians, then it was a military operation, pure and simple. THat the Georgians chose to run is probably because they feared reprisals for the horror they put the Russians through.
12

mike - across the pond,

mashi/postmark 26/08/2008 23:31:23
in another thread you proclaimed that Tibet would never be soveriegn because it would be too poor, and then in the same post you proclaimed that Tibet was too valuable for China to willingly part with it... which one is it? too poor or too rich?

you also implied that Tibet had been part of china for centuries, and any liberation would necessarily include inner mongolia... the problem with your breathless tyrade is that the "tibet" that most people refer to today is not the larger area you panic about, but the mountainous area... north of India.

as far as Tibet being a "beggar state" beholding to the USofA... in response I site Nepal.... Bhutan... countries who would be Tibets neighbors... the same concerns were stated about Ireland 20 years ago... and Scotland today...

the Dalai Lama...
I've had the honor of meeting and listening to the Dalai Lama, I find your depiction of him as some bloodthirsty tyrant to be in utter conflict with the gentleman I met. please site a single example to back up your allegations...
13

mike - across the pond,

mashi.... 26/08/2008 23:40:48
'Since when did "ethnic cleansing" include "pointing a gun" at someone...'

are you serious? lol put down the kool-aid pal... how about since one person thought to point a gun at somebody else?

"THat the Georgians chose to run is probably because they feared reprisals for the horror they put the Russians through."

horror they put the russains thru? what russians? surely you mis-spoke and meant to say the GEORGIANS under russian protection.... didnt you?

or are you implying that Georgia invaded RUSSIA...

how about the georgians ran because they faced overwhelming forces? granted those georgian forces were equipped and trained by the US & Israel, however it is FOLLY to think that training stands any hope against overwhelming force.
14

,

27/08/2008 00:23:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Mashimaro,

China 27/08/2008 00:27:37
#13 Ah, forgive me. My time in Africa means I have a far more realistic view of "ethnic cleansing" like... you know, hunting down people and hacking them to death with a machete because they look like they might belong to a certain ethnicity. Or perhaps trying to design a disease that would wipe out people of a certain genetic background. My bad. Obviously it's just when people decide to get out of the way of a fight.
16

mike - across the pond,

mashi..... 27/08/2008 01:28:47
care to talk about the attrocities of your mao....? I didnt think so.

lets talk about the attrocities of your government with regards to the human heritage of one of the most spectacular areas of that part of the world (up until your occupation)... destruction of human histories are a crime against humanity... akin to what the spaniards did to the Aztecs and Incas. what "the inquisition" destroyed throughout christendom... and to a lesser extent even we americans with regards to our native americans... I say "to a lesser extent" due to the absence of written history for the majority of north american indian peoples.... their history was mainly oral, and thus by its nature extremely ephemeral... tragic as that loss is, the depth of that loss of history is MUCH less than what Mao and your thugs have destroyed.

back to our original topic, shouldnt the people of tibet be able to pick their own government?

your claim that your occupation prevents tibet from becoming some himalayan desert is... lame people have been living in Tibet for a LONG time, will Tibet support 500 million people, somehow I doubt it, and have never even claimed it.

as far as "when little boys were forcibly taken to monastaries to be indoctrinated into Buddhism" care to talk about taking equally young children from their parents to be indoctrinated into the ways of gymnastics? yeah I really didnt think so....

or maybe the "unintended consequence" of mandating one child per family... and the impact upon female population in your country... yeah communism THATs what I want to saddle 20% of the worlds population with...
17

mike - across the pond,

mashi.... 27/08/2008 02:27:03
methinks you slipped

"My time in Africa means I have a far more realistic view of "ethnic cleansing" like... you know, hunting down people and hacking them to death with a machete"

did anyone else detect a certain note of wistfulness in that ghoulish little quote?

"Size, however, doesn't matter."
keep tellin yourself that pal.... lol
keep tellin yourself that.....
eh, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what I mean?
roflmmfUSAao......
18

James Donald,

Newbridge 27/08/2008 05:07:03
#11 Mashimaro,Red China - You should no about spouting the "party line" Zippy since you do it every day.

"‘No More Georgian Enclaves in S.Ossetia’ – Kokoity
Civil Georgia, Tbilisi / 22 Aug.'08 / 15:04
Georgian enclaves within South Ossetia have been “liquidated,” the breakaway region’s leader, Eduard Kokoity, said on August 22 as quoted by the Russian online news agency, Regnum.
“Villages of Kekhvi and Tamarasheni, which were uncontrolled [by the South Ossetia authorities] are now totally destroyed as a result of military operations,” Kokoity was quoted as saying".

Sounds like enthnic cleansing to me. No doubt what is left of the Georgian community in Abkhazia, those not forced out in the 1990s and those who returned, will be forced out too.




19

Mashimaro,

China 27/08/2008 05:29:41
#16 Gee Mike, d'you think you're the first person to argue this stuff with me? I've been here for like 3 months and every single one of the trolls have come up with exactly the same points, asked and answered.
So, here we go ... again... (It would be nice if you people actually knew something about Tibet before you started this rubbish)... Yes, people have lived in Tibet for ages... wow... they lived for 35 years. Now they live to reach the ripe old age of 65 - 70 years - thanks to communism. Now they have land and schools and medical help. They have equal rights for women and a far lower infant mortality rate than at any other time in their history.
But no, you want to take that all away from them.
MIght I introduce you to a man by the name of Abraham Maslow and his hierarchy of needs.
Tibet cannot feed itself. Did you know that, Skippy? So right away it would be an Oxfam client state. Cos god knows we need more of those around.
Tibet's water, however, keeps 1.3 billion people fed. Did you know THAT, Skippy? Whoever controls Tibet's water, controls China. Do you imagine in your wildest ideas that China would leave that open to US interference?
20

Mashimaro,

China 27/08/2008 05:34:02
Furthermore, children are not forcibly taken from their parents to be gymnastics stars. It is entirely with their parents' consent.
21

Postmark-55,

China, 27/08/2008 06:42:17
#9 Andrew BOD,
Well Andrew, that is why we are called Zhongguó, China is central, as the whole world is finding out.
22

Mashimaro,

China 27/08/2008 06:51:54
#17 I'm sorry, as you have guessed my first language is not English, so I don't see your "joke", only its racist undertones. I hope that when you write in Chinese on Chinese sites my countrymen are more forgiving.
23

mike - across the pond,

mashi.... 27/08/2008 16:53:51
your water argument makes NO sense...

so what you are implying is that if Tibet was its own country somehow they would stop the water from flowing into china?

how paranoid is THAT? exactly HOW are they going to stop water from flowing downhill? and if they did... WHAT would they do with THAT much water? its not like they are going to put it in jars on the pantry shelf... (they'd run out of pantry lol)

PSST... I hail from a "northern tier" state, so I am familiar with water flowing from one country to the next... and the potential problems one can encounter... however the laws of physics are not one of them...

as far as health care, and life expectencies...
yes, life expectencies have increased the world around... 40 used to be "a ripe old age"... thanks to modern nutrition and medicine, that is now considered "cut down in their prime"...

that has ZERO to do with the virtues of "communism" we have had the same longevity jumps here in the west... when we made "standard of living" adjustments

Food
you are claiming that a himalayan nation of tibet would be worse off than their Himalayan neighbors Bhutan? how so?
http://www.undp.org.bt/mdg/mdg_one.htm
Nepal is a little more problematic, however it is by no means hopeless. nor is china in their universe of solutions...
24

Andyh,

27/08/2008 19:26:46
The Americans dont seem to be as keen about this as they were about Kosovo!
The Kosovans had the chance to vote for independance,
why not South Ossetia and Abaknazia?
If the Russians started egging on the Mexicans to attack the U.S.A they would fight back. It is exactly
the same here with the U.S egging on the Goergians to attack South Ossetia which has Russian peacekeepers in it.
25

Let's have the truth,

Not Scotland 28/08/2008 01:04:47

I would be interested to know the reactions of some of the pro "One world order" devotees to this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/28/russia.usforeignpolicy
26

Let's have the truth,

Here 28/08/2008 01:32:44
#23

"your water argument makes NO sense..."

....Yes it does. They could emulate the Israelis and poison the water.
27

mike - across the pond,

LHTT 01/09/2008 02:00:10
ok dolt....

try THIS one on for size....

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/147841_joel12.html

it aint just israel... pal... and if you are saying that that is some excuse for occupation you may want to notify canada that they are on their own....

 

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