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Obama hails 'defining moment in history' as McCain attacks opponent's tax policies

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Published Date: 26 October 2008
By Wesley Johnson
BARACK Obama urged Americans to look to the future last night as they make up their minds with just 10 days left in the race for the White House.
Back on the campaign trail in Nevada, following a two-day break to visit his gravely ill grandmother in Hawaii, Obama's campaign launched a two-minute TV advert which hailed a "defining moment in our history".

Without mentioning his Republican rival John McCain, who is trailing in most national polls, Obama highlighted the economic policies which led to his boost in the polls as the financial crisis engulfs the country.

The length of the advert, which will start airing in key states today, highlights Obama's fundraising superiority – most campaign commercials run for just 30 seconds or a minute.

The advert asks: "Will our country be better off four years from now?"

Obama says: "At this defining moment in our history, the question is not: 'Are you better off than you were four years ago?' We all know the answer to that."

The advert adds that the 47-year-old Illinois senator will work to end "mindless partisanship" and "divisiveness".

Obama leads by almost eight points in the latest average of polls by RealClearPolitics.com, but Obama campaign aides have urged caution and suggested that a wide margin in polls could lead to less Obama supporters voting on November 4.

Meanwhile, McCain repeated his attacks on Obama over taxes while again talking about Joe the Plumber, an Ohioan named Joe Wurzelbacher who has become the central thematic element in McCain's speeches.

"As he told Joe the Plumber back in Ohio, he wants to 'spread the wealth around'," McCain said of his Democratic rival.

The Republican National Committee also released a TV advert which questioned whether Obama has the experience to be president.

The advert, featuring the image of a stormy ocean, says the nation is in "uncertain times" that could get worse and asks whether voters want a president "who's untested at the helm".

But

as McCain's prospects dimmed, two Republicans openly took issue with the veteran senator's handling of the race in separate interviews.

"I would have done things differently the last few weeks," Representative Paul Ryan told a newspaper in his home state of Wisconsin.

And former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that the race would have been different in his state if McCain had chosen him as running mate instead of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 October 2008 9:59 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: US elections , Barack Obama
 
1

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 00:06:19
Yep-roll on November. Gen. Powell was used, but retains honor.
2

Wally,

By The Rivers of Babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 00:31:28
http://www.theotherpaper.com/articles/2008/10/06/cover_story/doc48e3e340c02b4359356853.txt

isn't it about 9 days left. here's an article documenting the petty fighting people do over politics.
3

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 00:35:44
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20081025_Judge_rejects_Montco_lawyer_s_bid_to_have_Obama_removed_from_ballot.html

It is amazing how many emotion-laden attacks from the mccain forces there are.
4

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 01:00:07
#13 "twenty years spent listening to that man's bigoted sermons"

But I hear McCain has listened to sermons for over 60 years from people who say Jesus didn't have a biological father. Should we doubt his ability to deal with problems rationally because of this.

Things seem desperate for the anti-Obama camp when none of the muck being spread relates to anything Obama himself did. His place of birth, his pastor, his political associates.
5

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 01:04:32
The fact that republicans are talking about the "Impeachment" of Obama even before he is elected must surely indicate they believe the McCain/Palin pair is a lost cause.

Good grief, if ANYONE deserved to be impeached it's George Bush. Has the election frenzy damped the discussion on Bush's crimes?
6

,

26/10/2008 01:05:43
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7

,

26/10/2008 01:06:15
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8

,

26/10/2008 01:07:30
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9

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 01:10:13
#4 -

Gee. . .you better tell somebody about this !
10

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 01:10:18
Why,yes, I do believe there will a U.S. President "Of color".And about time,too. After his time is up, perhaps a female as well. Racist and or sexist arguements?
11

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 01:10:44
#18 Carolyn 1

Those listed are not backing McCain, they are backing the republican party. They are ALL republicans.

It may have escaped your attention that Powell is also a republican.

He is not the only person who told lies about WMD. Most of them are still in power in the whitehouse and should be locked up elsewhere, including McCain.
12

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 01:17:45
Oh, Gosh,He may not have been born in the U.S. Check out your history. He would not be the first.Never mind that this arguement is B.S. If his candidacy is "Illegal" there"s a whole lot 'o folks a backin' him.
13

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 01:21:56

A weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. . .

McCain and Palin are done.
14

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 01:32:35
#4

This article says different:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

15

,

26/10/2008 01:33:58
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16

,

26/10/2008 01:37:22
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17

Paddi,

26/10/2008 01:38:26
In the US, the debate is about the dissection of the minutiae, frankly who gives a damn if one likes daisies or the other petunias?

The fact of the matter is that the wheel has turned. Like it always turns, and like King Canute, nothing anyone can say or do, will stop the inevitable.

To those who are scared that a Democratic President will stop, war, invasion , bombings. Fear not, nothing changes. Democrats/Republicans, two sides of the same coin.

Amrika first
18

Jock MacSprog,

26/10/2008 01:40:41
what about Ayers ? Obama is a liar and this will come back to haunt us all.
19

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 01:41:30
My post at #11 was in response to Carolyn 1 at #23.

I am not psychic and only "The Scotsman" can explain how this happened.
20

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 01:43:09
I think someone's "Got at" this forum.
21

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 01:45:02
#22

I note that four of the five are members of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. They are probably not expecting much attention from Obama.

Madeleine Albright and Warren Christopher have backed Obama. I hadn't seen that splashed on the news either, but it's not really surprising as they are in the same party.


22

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 01:49:47

Judge tosses lawsuit challenging Obama citizenship

Oct 25, 3:37 PM (ET)

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A federal judge has DISMISSED a lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's qualifications to be president.

U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick on Friday night rejected the suit by attorney Philip J. Berg, who alleged that Obama was not a U.S. citizen and therefore ineligible for the presidency. Berg claimed that Obama is either a citizen of his father's native Kenya or became a citizen of Indonesia after he moved there as a boy.

Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother and a Kenyan father. His parents divorced and his mother married an Indonesian man.

"Internet-fueled conspiracy theories question whether Obama is a "natural-born citizen" as required by the Constitution for a presidential candidate and whether he lost his citizenship while living abroad."

23

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 01:50:36
#26

I guess if Madeleine Albright or Warren Christopher had backed McCain, that would have been news. But they didn't.

I see that four of the five on your list are members of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Perhaps not surprising that McCain's their man.
24

Silence of the Yams,

26/10/2008 01:54:07
11. Ayers doesn't bother me that much, shows a lack of judgement, yes. Jeremiah Wright is more concerning, twenty years spent listening to that man's bigoted sermons, and then lying about it when he's found out. What else has he lied about I ask? Tony Rezko is the indicted, Chicago mobster that was key in creating Obama, what else is hidden there? Too many questions about this guy.
25

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 01:54:20
#10 "Why are there SEVEN lawsuits pending"

I don't know. Why don't you believe the article I linked to?
26

Silence of the Yams,

26/10/2008 01:56:08
12. Surrick was a Bill Clinton appointee. Berg goes to the appeals court and then the US Supreme court if needs be. Obama has to prove his natural status, that's the bottom line.
27

Carolyn 1,

26/10/2008 01:59:35
For those liberals who have no brain separate from the biased media:

1.Henry Kissinger

2.Alexander Haig

3.Lawrence Eagleburger

4.George Shultz

5.James Baker

All 5 of these former Secretaries of State endorse McCain.

Colin Powell, was the Secretary of State that 'lied about WMDs as a reason for going to Iraq' and the liberals love to hate him?


Of course the media isn't reporting that love fest of 5 diplomats supporting McCain, - the media's approval ratings are as low as congress for a reason.
28

,

26/10/2008 02:34:06
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29

,

26/10/2008 05:14:51
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30

Monty Dog,

26/10/2008 05:37:09
What happened to the first one I wrote?
31

mrd,

fairbanks 26/10/2008 06:14:21
the 'One' is about to be annointed. Let the rest of us just bow down. As for Europe get ready to be OB'ed, you will be... Four years from now don't want to hear any complaints. MRD
32

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 26/10/2008 07:05:04
I seem to have responded to Carolyn 1's post twice, and both times before she wrote it. I guess that's what happens when you people in the States don't change your clocks when everyone else does.
33

,

26/10/2008 08:01:59
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34

Richardinho,

26/10/2008 08:11:09
can't believe McCain is still battering on about the fraudulent 'joe the plumber'.
35

The Strategist,

26/10/2008 08:51:27
The Americans should be warned. We voted in New Labour on the basis they offered "change" and look where it got us.
36

WKKB,

26/10/2008 09:43:32
Re: a certificed birth certific... Obama has been heard to say that once he is elected he will produce the original certificate of birth. Re: what's on a birth certificate... Well, when I went for my US drivers license I filled in the blanks how I wanted my name to appear on my license. It appeared JUST EXACTLY as I had written it but guess what folks that's NOT how it is on my birth certificate. I actually applied to have my birth certificate changed so that my name on my birth certificate was how I wanted it to be NOT how it was as my birth. Now... having a valid US drivers licence I could get my passport and subsequent indefinite leave to remain visa with my name as I wanted it not how my birth certificate was. It's all true folks... Obama could have any name he wanted on his legal documents and all he had to do was apply for a change on his birth certificate.

Oh and btw... My Sister's neice has a hawaiian birth certificate and the embossed seal and signature is on the front as opposed to the back where Obama's aparently is (making it invisible on a photo copy). Are we absolutely sure Obama's is legit? Just in case anyone was interested.
37

Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 09:48:54
#4 Selgovae

Virgin births happen in Nature all the time, so it's no more miraculous as any "£normal" conception and birth. What isn't generally known is that science shows it is is possible for it to have, or to happen, in the human species as well. You just have to get the right (rare) circumstances. See http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/A/AsexualReproduction.html
which is a fascinating paper that describes the process by which this might occur. It's great reading for a Sunday!!!
38

somerferg,

perth 26/10/2008 09:52:14

Perhaps if its okay for non citizens to become president I will apply for the job. I'm fairly sure I could do a better job than the current resident at 1600 Penn Ave and certainly better than either of the two front runners - however perhaps on reflection I'm a bit too honest for the job.
39

Selgovae,

26/10/2008 10:15:53
#37 Nellie

Thank you for the information. However, I don't think McCain's preachers were saying Jesus' birth was perfectly natural. Just the opposite, I suspect.
40

Ayegudyin,

Edinburgh 26/10/2008 10:41:20
35# new labour went down the tubes because of a weak prime minister who copied his big bully friend in the whitehouse.

36# WKKB - - HYPE. i would rather a president with dodgy origin over McCain the war monger any day.

McCain is proving that he is a product of military training, he only knows how to attack things. whether its Hanoi in the vietnam war, Obama on the campaign trail, or if he were to be elected, Iran. This guy has no political abilities other than to be on the offensive... NOT what we want in a president.

Typical republicans get so worked up over scandal, they are a mindless bunch. They are the tabloid newspapers of the political world. The democrats are once again showing they have the ability to think positively, all you get from the McCain camp is negativity.

Well done Obama, 2 minute TV ads and no mention of the 'also ran', no better way to make him look like a spoilt little bully.
41

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 11:04:39

BIRTH CERTIFICATE INFO -

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/

Don't believe it ? Then get in line for the next orbit of Kohoutek, which will whisk you away to everlasting truth and beauty !
42

Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 11:30:23
#4 Interesting point. I wonder, what has Obama's place or birth, Paster or political associates got to do with anything? If it's a reference to his "knowing" a former terrorist, so too has every President in modern times! (Ones that really stick in my throat are Mr Begin, some of his cohorts, a couple of the guys across the water ... oh, too many to mention.) Presidents, like Prime Ministers HAVE to do business with ex-terrorist because ex-terrorists have a habit of turning out as "respectable" heads of state, or other notable politicians. So, this area of Obama's life seems to put him ahead of McCain in the experience stakes! His place of birth? He was born in an Islamic country - so? Doesn't make him Al Quaida, does it, no more than it makes every Muslim a waist-coated bomber. And his pastor is an idiot ... don't we all know idiots with strange views? Does that say anything special about us? I know someone who blew up meat wagons, broke into animal labs to "liberate" animals and hounded the hounds - doesn't make me a fully paid up member of ALF does it? Nope, just someone who was involved with animal rescue, not "animal liberation." I know someone who used to steel motorbikes. Does that make me a thief? Most Probation Officers know someone who's committed murder - does that say something extraordinarily bad about Probation Officers? Of course not. All that guilt by association stuff is a load of horse manure and I'd think can only be taken as valid criticisms by folk who have brains made of the same kind of fertilizer.

But I'm not saying you think that way ... you don't, do you? I'm not even saying I prefer Obama to McCain - not yet convinced there is really a whisker between them in terms of their desirability. But I DO care about who becomes the US President even though I'm not a citizen of that country - because whoever is voted in is going to have a huge impact on the rest of the World for good and/or bad.
43

Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 11:37:32
#39 Agreed. Merely pointing out that it is possible in Nature for a human being not to have a biological father; hence to claim that virgin births are not possible may show a lack of ability to deal with facts arrived at in a perfectly rational way.

Ergo, it doesn't make McCain irrational just because he believes in a virgin birth - it all depends on how he thinks it happened!
44

Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 11:39:32
Personally, it's not McCain that bothers me as much as his running mate ... Still, if he loses at least she'll make a good scape goat!
45

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 12:14:56
This kind of non-debate can only happen in the mighty US of A. Let's face it neither(or should I say,none of the four) are a great prospect and I don't think any have the credentials to be 'the most powerful man/woman in the world'. The more liberal among us want Obama, basically because he is coloured and because John Wayne McCain is a warmonger.I'm glad that we still adhere to a little bit of experience before giving anyone a modicom of power in Britain.However, briefly on that subject, people in this country look determined to shoot off one of their feet by voting, come election time, for the Etonian 'hooray Henry', pub wrecking and ultimately country wrecking crew who are lurking under the guise of the Tory party. Inexperienced or what? Anyway, I was trying to think of a goodish American president, in my lifetime, and, to be quite honest the name escapes me. Whoever is elected we, in the civilised world, will just have to wait for another four years with anticipation of what the totally screwed up, ignorant of world politics, totally, totally mad US will do next. Before they are inaugerated, the US president should be made to take a course in history, geography and certainly understanding what the rest of the world thinks of them.
PS. #35 The Strategist must be either 1. Under sixteen or 2. Suffer from pre-senile dementia.
46

,

26/10/2008 12:34:17
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47

Media 1,

cape town 26/10/2008 12:45:20
Johnny

You are correct in saying that no American president in the last 40 odd years has been an experienced statesman or even a good politician. Essentially, that country has always been run by big business and few Oval office "Petro Dollar" cronies.

There is however one thing that is very different this time round. America will not be a super power within the next four years. Now with McCain at the helm that will mean a world war, whereas Obama will probably try and avoid a world war - For that he may be removed!

In 1971 America printed far more money that it could back up with gold reserves - In 1975, the French demanded that her dollar cash money was redeemed in gold - in otherwords, here is all the dollars we have in France, please replace them with gold..America couldnt do so, because she had committed an act of bankruptcy - there was no way out, until the idea of the Petro Dollar came up. The Americans in a dire situation approached the Saudi's and cut a deal. The deal was arms and assistance against the Russian's and in return, all Saudi oil sold to other nations had to be transacted in US Dollars. In otherwords, no matter who you were, if you wanted oil, you first had to require US Dollars to pay for it.
This was a free lunch for America, her oil was now being delivered for free at the expense of the rest of the world.
But like all free rides, it had to come to an end and implode. Saddam Hussein, funny enough, was the man who began to tamper with the "Petro Dollar" free ride. Instead of adhering to the OPEC rule of dollar transactions, he decided to see oil to anyone who wanted it in EURO's..Thus OPEC and America had a problem - Saddam was the problem because his actions would bring America to her knees, for in essence America has been bankrupt for decades and survivng on a false economy, Saddam was about to bring her to her knees by selling oil in other currency.
He had to be stopped, but how? They had tried before and failed, but they needed t
48

Media 1,

cape town 26/10/2008 12:46:16
He had to be stopped, but how? They had tried before and failed, but they needed to go after him again. So how would they do it?
Enter the Twin Towers and Osama Bin Laden - The whole world is in shock, we are told Bin Laden did it and that he will be caught, but before anyone had time to think, Bin Laden was forgotten about and Saddam was the target. (Bin Laden is still out there)
For the moment, the crisis was averted and the dollar was maintained has OPEC's currency for oil trade.
Then Hugo Chavez began selling oil in other currency. He was a CIA target - and the Petro Dollar scam was out the bag.
The Iranian president is currently selling oil in all currencies EXCEPT dollars, he must be stopped, no real surprise to see America looking for reasons to attack.
Now that other nations know they can buy oil in their own currencies they will have no need to hold US paper dollars and soon ALL OPEC nations will abandon the dollar.
The problem with that - America will soon be buying their own oil in Euro's or maybe Rubels - there is not enough dollars because most of them are false, the nation is bankrupt.
That means war - a world war - but will McCain or Obama be more inclined to fight that war?
49

Papadoc,

North Carolina USA 26/10/2008 12:46:46
In response to #12... 2dog: This is such a non-issue! And you're probably confusing our friends in Scotland. The US Constitution says that anyone elected president [or VP] must be a "natural born" citizen. That means he or she must be born a citizen. It doesn't matter where one is born, just that he be a citizen from birth. One is a natural born citizen if he is born in the US or if he is born to a US citizen [anywhere in the world].

In fact, John McCain was born in Panama, not the US. BUT, because his parents were US citizens, he was at birth.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii... a US state. The rumor is that he was actually born in Kenya while his mother was visiting her husband's family. So what?? Even if he were born in Kenya.... his mother was still born in Kansas... she was still a US citizen... therefore Obama is a US citizen.

His father was a citizen of Kenya. No one has ever claimed that he was a US citizen. And... it doesn't matter! It makes no constitutional difference!

This is the level the poor Republicans have sunk to. They have no substance to argue. So they just make stuff up... or they state things with just enough spin to make you think that something is wrong or sinister.
50

,

26/10/2008 13:00:28
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51

suchaparcelofrogues,

Scotland 26/10/2008 13:06:49
I think Obama is going to turn out to be another Blair.
The folk who vote for him are doing so because they think his policies will differ from Bushes.
Sorry folks I believe the world is in for more of the same. It will be like Bush never left.
I honestly hope I am wrong but I dont believe so.
52

Leftie,

UK 26/10/2008 13:07:35
@27
Carolyn 1
McCain's about to have another crash landing and thank God you're on it as well. Get down on your hands and knees and kiss Obama's feet, you stupid wench

@34
Richardinho,
"can't believe McCain is still battering on about the fraudulent 'joe the plumber'"
Thats because he hasn't got a leg to stand on

53

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 13:07:50
I appreciate the warning from The Strategist in #35. all of our arguing does no good, it is vain & stupid.

NBC news has picked Obama to clinch the race.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14927.html

The Palin selection has obviously not worked out. Polls are showing she's a negative. and here's a story about tension between palin & the Mccain campaign managers.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14927.html





54

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 13:10:44
oops. here's that link on how there's tension between palin & the Mccain campaign.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/25/palin.tension/index.html
55

Carolyn 1,

26/10/2008 13:12:09
From the article,
"Obama highlighted the economic policies which led to his boost in the polls as the financial crisis engulfs the country."

The Great One voted "present"

On the Bail-out bill, the most pivotal piece of legislation the Congress may ever pass, a bill that's supposed to rescue the country he cares about, and the Messiah voted "Present" ??


56

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 13:14:41
#47 & 48 Media 1
Thank you.
You have so much raised the level of debate here.
No doubt, shortly, we will have all the usual gutter name calling from the 'enlightened ones'who really don't have an answer to sensible debate and have no facts to back up their rants.
On a more flippant note, I've had a bet on with a national bookmakers since last year that Obama will not be around come election day, £100 @ 7/1 only £700, not worth much, but he's only a Hawaiin (sick joke?)
57

Media 1,

cape town 26/10/2008 13:19:26
Johnnyf

It would not surprise me if Obama was targeted by the clandenstine agents on the payroll of the Oval office -And if that happens, does America spiral out of control? She is already spiralling out of control in terms of her economic crisis - what is next?
Who knows, but the US of A is bankrupt and pretty soon nobody will have any need to hold onto dollars
58

seanie,

26/10/2008 13:38:20
#55 You can find the Senate voting record here;

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00213

Turns out you're not telling the truth.
59

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 13:50:03
I always thought that some "Southern nutter" would get him.
Oddly enough, through the week, I watched a film (movie) about F*nny Kemble,(you're not allowed to put an "a" in the lady's name - f***ing American software, only a girl's name in Scotland) the English actress who wrote about the plight of American slaves, and, turned it around considerably. It just highlighted the Christian versus humanitarian aspect that was around in these days. Fundamentalist Christians abound in the US(both parties)and adhering to what THEY think is in the bible. Players are the same and I don't know if attitudes have progressed.
60

,

26/10/2008 13:56:48
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61

Carolyn 1,

26/10/2008 14:11:51
Ooops- that present vote information came from an Indiana political website tracking candidates votes and the Indiana Star. The present vote was on the first bail-out bill, not the one that passed.
62

seanie,

26/10/2008 14:15:12
You can't vote 'present' in the US Senate.

Try again.
63

seanie,

26/10/2008 14:21:25
Oh and the first bail-out bill didn't make it to the Senate because the House of Representatives rejected it.
64

Pistol Pete,

26/10/2008 14:41:36
If McCain wins I think the US deserve this for another 8 years although he will probably not see that long as he is so old and that will leave flighty Palin in charge. How can a 74 year old refer to change? If these 2 do get in it will be the continued US downfall as a Superpower but at a faster rate. I do actually believe that the average American is so stupid. When McCain refers to change you can hear the stuttery age within his intonation - frightening.
65

Wally,

By The Rivers of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 14:48:41
carolyn in 55:

you are incorrect in your assertion. There were 2 big bailout bills recently. There was the housing bailout bill passed by the senate in august, by the house several months earlier and signed into law in late august. that bill authorized $5 trillion spending to bail out freddie mac & fannie mae. Both obama and mccain abstained from that vote. then there was the wall street bailout bill that got so much attention in late september. on that one both obama and mccain voted for it.

the anchorage daily news (most prominent newspaper of Alaska) endorses Obama.

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/567867.html
66

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 14:53:49
#65 Wally
If neither of them have the guts to vote on such an important issue, how can you vote for them? Defies logic and credibility.
Doesn't happen in the U.K.
67

Wally,

By The Rivers of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 14:54:25
Carolyn in 61:

you just don't know what you're talking about. Regarding the wall street bailout bill, where $700 billion was to go to wall street investment banks, that bill was voted on only once in the US Senate. both obama & mccain voted for it. it was voted on twice in the House.

what you read on the Indiana site must've referred to the earlier bailout bill, the $5 trillion bill for bailing out Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae, on that one both Obama & McCain did not vote.
68

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 14:59:02
JohnnyF in 66:

we had 2 bailout bills. The first one was bigger by far and it got hardly any media coverage until it had already passed. the first bailout bill was to bail out freddie & fannie. this was required because fraudulent mortgage securities were created and sold on a large scale. that bill passed overwhelmingly in the US Senate with every single democrat voting for it except Hilary Clinton, barack Obama and maybe 1 or 2 others who all did not vote. Not one single democrat voted against it. and among republicans maybe 70% of them voted for it and some opposed and some not voting. McCain was one who did not vote.

I thought it was very curious that all the presidential candidates did not vote on that bill.
69

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 26/10/2008 15:11:04
While doing an interview with a TV journalist in Florida, Joe Biden was asked questions he did not like, nor did the Obama campaign. They weren't softball questions, they were about the economy. Now, the Obama campaign is has decided that the other interviews on that station will be cancelled.
Does this mean, that when and IF Obama is elected and reporters are asking questions...you know like the hard ones involving economy, foreign affairs, and domestic affairs.. these two will decide NO..I don't want to answer this, and you are barred from the White House Press Room?
What is going on here? Every edited interview, trying to show the McCain-Palin interviews in a bad light has been shown over and over again, BUT THEY ANSWERED the questions.
Another Person (this time a station) thrown under the bus for retaliation and supression of the truth.
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26/10/2008 15:21:05
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Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 15:35:52
#68 Wally
Thanks. Your last sentence is the gist of my previous post.
#69 Lynne - scary - no wonder the rest of the world is holding it's breath while you dumbos decide.
#70 Doreen the fat excop lesbo:- Are you sure you are on the correct forum?,Dearie!

The one thing that I have noticed about this US presidential election, and for the first time I have ever witnessed, watching 'Question Time' and the great Andrew Neill shenanigan which goes out after 'Question Time', NO British politician wants to see McCain and especially Palin elected. Government ministers don't normally comment on US elections because we have to maintain "the special relationship". America has never been a friend to Britain despite all the rhetoric.
I liked the US isolationist period the best.
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26/10/2008 15:40:01
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26/10/2008 15:43:53
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26/10/2008 15:44:37
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Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 26/10/2008 15:48:43
I went to the ABC Comments on the Charlie Gibson interview.. there are over 18,000 comments the last time I looked. If all those people who said they would never watch him again because of the rude, condescending way he conducted his interview with Gov. Palin, then Mr. Gibson's ratings are in trouble.
When 2 journalists were going to be interviewed on a TV station, the Obama campaign FLOODED the station with phone calls and e-mails to try and stop them.
Censorship now too? It's not bad enough that supression and punishment, and retaliation is the name of the game for the Obama Campaign.
76

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 26/10/2008 15:50:10
Their names escape me at the moment, but one of them wrote the Obamanation.. obviously, not in favor of Barak.
77

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 16:01:08
#75 Lynne
Wasn't it 'nice' for capitalist America to take the good old Marxist way of getting out your economic troubles by nationalising your banks.
We had a conversation in the pub (bar) last week about how Russia has become capitalist and USA has turned socialist. In Britain, we really don't care about your loony politics.
78

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26/10/2008 16:12:11
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Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 16:23:40
#78 Hugo
Well I see that they have American TV in Venezuela.
To start a reply with the abbreviated "OMG" is distinctly 'Friends'.
If you want culture and judging by your stance on American politics, you probably need it, tune in to European TV stations. It's a different world, man.
80

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 16:26:54
regarding media censorship - regardless of who is elected the anti-trust legislation should be dusted off and used. The media should be broken up, forced to sell off many assets. There are only 6 corporations that own over 95% of US media. it is disrupting our ability to have a national discussion.
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26/10/2008 16:35:38
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 16:44:39

Since 1913. . . the USA has had a system of "graduated / progressive" income taxation, with funds collected and paid out to states, municipalities, farmers, public works projects, educational and cultural facilities, roads, bridges, dams, Medicare, Medicaid,etc. etc.

This surely is not news to any of us.

"From each according to his ability . . to each according to his need" has been the operative phrase
for this system.

However, many of us shiver in our boots to remember who coined the phrase, assuming that this is necessarily an integral part of an over-all authoritarian system. It obviously functions in many environments, our own being one.

When you refer to the name "Karl Marx," consider the fact that you already live in a country which utilizes many of these Marxist ideas, within in a unique, capitalist framework.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax
83

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 16:49:42
F*cking BBC. State owned, great programmes(oh yes that's the proper spelling), a bit 'dumbed down' due to a plethora of American programs(not the correct spelling unless you are adhering to 'computer programs').
In another 200 years America will join the culture party.

Love Y'all
84

Lanna,

26/10/2008 17:06:58
#77
I thought this quote interesting...

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."
--Nikita Khrushchev
85

Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 17:21:21
#84 Lanna
As Miles Davis once said "Nice touch".
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26/10/2008 17:21:50
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Carolyn 1,

26/10/2008 17:22:44
It really doesn't make sense for ADN newspaper to endorse Obama, when the Alaksa state polls show McCain is ahead by 15 to 20 points.

it's a constant source of amazement to me, that newspapers, being in dire financial stress,are canceling their wire services, laying off people, cutting back on pages, etc. -but they can't figure out why nobody reads the paper?

But, it is a bad bad omen, and a sad day, when your own state doesn't heart you anymore.

As I've been saying, you really can't beat the good ole boys network, but Palian sure did give them a test.



88

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 17:25:05

Lanna-

At what point, if any, do fish know that they live
in water ?
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 17:35:33

#86

The Biden interview was laced with terminology specifically designed to scare the bejesus out of an ill-informed audience.

If you would actually take the time to find out how our government has been SPECIFICALLY in the "wealth re-distribution" business all along, you might understand why there was an objection to many of the fear-inducing questions asked.

Interesting that you read my comments in posting #82
and would STILL ask such a childish, partisan question.

Do some research . . .

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26/10/2008 17:39:34
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26/10/2008 17:41:34
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26/10/2008 17:51:33
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seanie,

26/10/2008 17:53:12
#87 Tiptoeing away from your 'Obama-voted-present' lie?

95

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26/10/2008 17:57:57
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Carolyn 1,

26/10/2008 18:10:55
@94 seanie
No, few posts later I said at 61, I made a mistake.

From Political Punch,
“Does Obama Support the AIG Bailout” by Jake Tapper

Barack Obama - still voting present after all these years.

http://truthliesandcommonsense.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-votes-present-on-aig-bailout.html


http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/required_reading_obama_and_aig.asp
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Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:12:31
#85 Johnnyf,
Ta.

#88 D,
When one has a paradigm shift, however spontaneous, perhaps something on shore inspired him; he sees that he can be something so much more than the water limits him to be, and thus he crawls onto shore...

"Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind."
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Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 18:13:04
#95 and it's soooooo gross that a certain American soldier called Lt. Calley, slaughtered innoccemts at Mai Lai, was unconvicted and topped the charts in the mighty, (I'm only going to say the first initial cause the country is so AWESOME) U.
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2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 18:13:44
Why.thank you Postmark. And Lynne, thank you for coming to the rescue of my honor.
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 18:14:48

#90

Which version of truth were you looking for ?

The version where neither party has ever has the balls to tell the American population that we actually ARE "socialists" in many respects. . . as we are ?

The version that it would be suicide for ANY candidate dealing with a fearful, under-educated population to even mention the word "socialist?"

That "spreading the wealth around" is already the main function of our government and has been for almost 100 years . . . . but you can't actually SAY that ?

How would YOU explain this reality to a paraniod population of people who think that "free market capitalism" is the sum-total explanation of our economic system, that "socialism" means totalitarianism/communism. At what point do we all grow up and realize that we have an ever-changing mixture of several methods?

Regardless of what my opinions are, the fact remains that our existing system contains many "socialistic"
functions as it is. . . .this is simple enough to look up in Wikipedia !

And you expect a candidate to say that he agrees with Marx on some 3 minute TV interview ?

You can't be that naive!







101

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 18:23:18
Postmark-Seems kind of funny how every time you come to my defense, you get binked into the red zone.
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 18:25:22

#91

I get the impression that your definition of "spin" is what many would call "explanation."

You are one of those "simple enough for a kid to understand" folks ? I can't believe that !

103

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 18:33:15
DFeste-I find it rather interesting that one poster from upstate N.Y. dissappears, then another from Ohio appears,and both have the same unassailable logic.Humm..
104

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26/10/2008 18:36:33
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Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:44:50
Found this the other day, thought it interesting....any economists care to add their twa pence yea or nae...

"Obama promises a tax cut for 95% of Americans. What a lie and the American electorate is eating it right up like the fools they are. Anyone who is confident Obama will follow through on his 95 percent promise is letting naivety triumph over common sense.

Obama has a major plan to go after corporations and incease the corporate income taxes.. But funny thing is -- If you ask a typical family about taxes they pay they'll focus on America's biggest and visible taxes: property taxes on a home, sales taxes at the store, and income and payroll taxes deducted from their paychecks.. One tax that people are likely to ignore is corporate income tax. And the reason is simple: most who pay corporate income taxes aren't even aware that they exist..

Most people think that corporate taxes are paid by the wealthy, anonymous companies. But as economist have been teaching for centuries the people bear the burden of corporate taxes, and not the companies..

Now lets look at who pays some of the large share of this tax burden.. One of the surprising findings done by Tax foundation is that the lowest income households bear large share of the corporate tax burden..

In total, the poorest of households pay more in corporate income taxes each year then they pay in individual income taxes to the IRS..

Here's an example...

House holds earning $ 23,700 paid 271 in corporate taxes compared to just $167 in individual taxes.. Most people never even knew you paid it..

As a share of the burden, corporate taxes were 6.3 percent of the low income households tax bills camapred to just 4 percent for individual taxes..

The only tax that hits low income familes harder is the federal payroll tax which is designed to pay Social Security, and Medicare..

What this means is that cutting corpate tax rates is not about handing out money to US companies. It's about providi
106

2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 18:45:18
Whitecaps-Are you some cyber-stalker?
107

Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:46:18
...What this means is that cutting corpate tax rates is not about handing out money to US companies. It's about providing relief to American familes, much of which will provide enormous benefits to the nations lowest income wage earners..

Obama doesn't understand the US Economic System and how it actually works..

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton took part in a debate several months ago hosted by Charlie Gibson. Gibson asked Obama about his plan to raise the capital gains tax. Then Gibson pointed out that studies have shown that lowering the capital gains tax increases government revenues and is good for the economy. Obama began stammering and stuttering and in one of the most revealing moments of the election, Obamas lack of understanding of the economy and taxes was made clear. Obama was unable to rely on a canned
teleprompter response.


Corporations are primarily taxed three ways. Once on the corporate income, next on dividends and then on the sale of stock. If you are a retiree and own stock, you will have less money because the corporation will have less profit and if you sell the stock you will pay more tax on the sale.

The US corporate business tax system is an anachronism that discourages growth and undermines job creations..High tax rates drive jobs and investments abroad.

Government is extremely inefficient. $ 1,000 taken from a business will remove money that drives the economy, creates more jobs and ultimately brings more revenue for the government. That $ 1,000 will be wasted in government bureacracy and overhead.

Obama is using this old lie to appeal to his core support that is promised everything by politicians that use them to win elections.

Obama says 98 percent of all US small business make under 250k a year..

The following data comes from the IRS for the year 2003 and reveals the number of businesses with revenue over $ 250,000 in 2003.
From IRS statistics in 2003:

Revenue Range Number of businesses

$250,000 - $50
108

Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:47:18
Revenue Range Number of businesses

$250,000 - $500,000 1,331,692
$500,000 - $1,000,000 932,914
$1,000,000 - $2,500,000 686,257
$2,500,000 - $5,000,000 263,211
$5,000,000 - $10,000,000 143,693
$10,000,000 - $50,000,000 124,568
$50,000,000 - Above 32,040

Many of you work for a company that falls into one of those categories. Plus this doesn't include the mid size corporation that would be effected by Obama tax incease..We won't even get into that matter ...

Doesn't Obama realized that a company is considered a small business if it has one employee to five hundred employees..

Voters need to get an understand of the effects that raising taxes on business..Obama plans for a massive corporate business tax incease..In theory that sounds great doesn't it -- but in reality it's a living nightmare..

The US business tax rate stands at 40 percent in the us today. Obama plans to jump this number to somewhere around 65 percent..Now what do you think that will do to our nations business sector and to our populus?

HERE'S WHAT THE RESULT OF THAT WILL DO TO AMERICA...

Business taxes affect business decisions, job creation and retention, plant location, competitiveness, the transparency of the tax system,
and the long-term health of a countries economy. Most
importantly, taxes diminish profits. If taxes take a larger portion of profits, that cost is passed along to either consumers (through higher prices), workers (through lower wages or fewer jobs), or shareholders through lower dividends or share value). Thus a country with lower tax costs will be more attractive to business investment, and more likely to experience economic growth.

According to the KPMG report, 23 countries have lowered their corporate tax rates this year, and no nation has raised its rate since last year. Last week
, for instance, Sweden announced a series of proposals to improve its business climate , including a plan to cut its corporate tax rate from
28 percent to 26.3 perce
109

Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:49:24
According to the KPMG report, 23 countries have lowered their corporate tax rates this year, and no nation has raised its rate since last year. Last week
, for instance, Sweden announced a series of proposals to improve its business climate , including a plan to cut its corporate tax rate from
28 percent to 26.3 percent. A September 17, 2008 Industry Week article, "Sweden Announces Income Tax Cuts to Boost Jobs," explains, "Since coming to power in the autumn of 2006, the Swedish government
has launched a series of measures aimed at inciting Swedes to return to the job market instead of living off of state subsidies."

"The U.S. rate was higher than all other global regions in 1999 and the difference is even more dramatic today," . "If the Swedes now recognize that taxes matter to a country's business climate and
incentives to work, then when will America's political class?"

In Tax Foundation Fiscal Fact No. 145, "KPMG Study Finds U.S. Corporate Tax Rate Higher Than Every
Global Region," Tax Foundation President Scott Hodge explains that America's stagnant business tax
system is potentially harmful to America's economic
competitiveness in the global marketplace.

This KPMG survey comes on the heels of the Tax Foundation's CompeteUSA project, a campaign to raise public awareness of America's high business taxes and how our business tax system might be affecting
our competitiveness, wages and living standards.

Recent OECD studies show U.S. corporate income taxes are 50 percent higher than the average among our counterparts in the industrialized world, and that corporate taxes are the single most harmful tax to
GDP growth, more so than personal income taxes or consumption taxes.

Last month, the Tax Foundation released a revised summary showing that the U.S. federal corporate income tax quietly taps family pocketbooks for nearly $370 billion per year in the form of higher
prices, lower wages and poorer return on investment.

If Obamas economi
110

Lanna,

26/10/2008 18:50:19
f Obamas economic plan is the way to go..How come every European nation has done "JUST THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT OBAMA SUGGEST"??


Almost every European nation has lowered it's corporate tax rates..Obama has plans to raise the US corporate tax rate.. WHAT DO THE EUROPEAN NATIONS KNOW THAT OBAMA DOES NOT??

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb_0707_48.pdf

To learn more about the CompeteUSA project, go to
http://www.taxfoundation.org/competeusa.

The KPMG survey can be found at
http://www.kpmg.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Corporate-Tax-Rates-Survey-2008b.pdf.

Fiscal Fact No. 145 can be found at
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/23621.html.

The Industry Week article can be found at
http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=17335.

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/

Obama is just another modern day snake oil salesman. He will ruin this economy and this country.

WAKE UP PEOPLE.. Pass this information on around the web.. Lets get this information to the voters..

Face it people..Obamas economic plans will hurt America more then help us...
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seanie,

26/10/2008 18:59:45
@96 First you claimed Obama voted 'present' on the bailout bill, "the most pivotal piece of legislation the Congress may ever pass" in your own words.

When it's shown he in fact voted in favour of it you changed tack to;

"The present vote was on the first bail-out bill, not the one that passed."

Except of course the first bail-out bill never went beofre the Senate. Now you seem to be suggesting that Obama voted 'present' on the AIG bailout.

But there was no vote prior to that bailout. It was emergency action undertaken by the Federal Reserve.

And even if there had been Senator Obama couldn't have voted 'present'.

You cannot vote 'present' in the United Staes Senate.

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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 19:02:16
#103-2Dogs

Nice goin' Dogs ! Takes one to know one, I guess !

"Foolish" arguments deserve foolish names. . . .

*******************************************

#104- Whitecaps -

I had no intention of appearing as a "troll." What's so trollish about stating what our tax policy has been ? That we have many programs that are classically "socialist" in nature ? These are real issues, not meant to inflame anyone, but to simply point out existing fact.

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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 19:23:50

#104- Whitecaps

If my postings regarding our existing "socialist" programs lead you to call me a "troll," this is why NO candidate, Biden included, can venture anywhere near the truth of the matter. The word is poison to anyone who utters it. No one wants to hear about "sharing the wealth," although that's the way it's been all along.

Just look at your own reaction to my postings. . .
you got angry, even though this is what we already have in the USA.

Would Bush DARE call his "Middle Class Economic Relief Checks". . . . SOCIALISTIC ? I think NOT !

How about bailing out banks and lenders with OUR money? "Socialistic" sharing of private/corporate losses ?

I'd like to hear from someone how all of these programs are NOT socialistic ! If not that, then what are they ?

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Johnnyf,

Scotland 26/10/2008 19:32:10
#100 D Feste.
Well, thank you sir.
I totally misunderstood all Americans. I thought no-one over 'the pond' had a grasp on reality.
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Lanna,

26/10/2008 19:33:09
#112 D.

"Socialist in nature"? Providing for the poor, downtrodden, and disabled could also be considered Christian in principle. Therefore, could it be said that socialists have Christian foundations or the US has employed a certain moral obligation to these people in the form of Conscientious Capitalism?
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Lanna,

26/10/2008 19:34:42
#114 Johnny,

easy now there, fella...
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Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 19:51:40
JohnnyF in 98:

I feel compelled to correct you in order to set record straight. Lieutenant Calley was found guilty by a military court. He was not found guilty by a civilian court when he was tried there though. he was scheduled to serve a long jail sentence based on the military court's conviction, but president Nixon ordered he be pardoned and he was.
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2dogs in D.C.,

26/10/2008 20:07:33
Now,evidently, we've gone and raided into Syria. October surprise?
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 20:15:19
#114-JohnnyF-

Thanks to you also !

#115- Lana

Excellent points. Just try getting an answer to any of this from posters on this board. . .
I appreciate your insights.


120

D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 20:21:57
#115-Lana


"Conscientious Capitalism?

Lest we forget, George W. Bush used to refer to himself as a "compassionate conservative," when running for his first term.

The "compassionate" part dropped first, with the "conservative" close behind.
121

Wally,

By The Rivers Of babylon (USA) 26/10/2008 20:42:13
consider the massive bailouts we've been discussing. A $5 trillion bailout was approved for fannie mae & freddie mac. those organizations buy up mortgage securities & sell them. The $5 trillion number is outrageously large and could only be needed if they sold fake securities which some people (catherine austin fitts) in a position to know say is what happened. - both McCain & Obama abstained from voting on that one. then they had the $700 billion bailout bill that was to be specifically for wall street investment banks. both McCain & Obama voted for that. then they went and decided on hundreds of billions to be used in propping up banks. by the time Obama takes offices not only will all the $700 billion be committed or spent already, but they're going to spend hundreds of billions more than that even by the time Obama comes in. And I have no idea where they got the authority to spend more than the $700 billion, but they're doing it. maybe there was another vote, that carolyn called the AIG bailout bill, I have no idea.

all I know is the government is borrowing massive quantities of money and giving it to special people who got themselves into financial trouble. This is not something that fits the mould of capitalism or communism or socialism. this is theft.

our basic economic problem is that we're deep in debt and many of our big companies mainly engage in financial manipulation without producing anything. the solution is to borrow massively and give it to those big companies that do the financial manipulation. only a fool will believe that this is anything but theft.
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Lanna,

26/10/2008 20:45:57
#120
I was thinking more of Teddy Roosevelt as the model for conscientious capitalism. The integrity and fortitude of today's politicians is somewhat lacking by all accounts. Of course, US Grant's presidential term was said to be about the most corrupt.

Different faces, same greed and power plays; history repeats, does it not. At least, America stands, however tottering, for the ability to better oneself through hard work despite social station, as well as the right to defend our person with force against those who would harm, the right to habeus corpus, and the right to have a say in how one is governed without being jailed or shot.
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 20:57:20
#122-Lana

Wonerfully said. . .thank you.
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26/10/2008 21:27:38
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26/10/2008 21:49:35
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Postmark-55,

China, 26/10/2008 22:30:48
Posts # 72 and 73 of course aren't mine and the lowlife imposter needs to get a life and the Scotsman needs to get professional rather than being the two bit rag that they are.

2dogs,
You're more than welcome, you definitely deserve it.

#125 Whitecaps,
You need to get a life as well, I lived in Canada most of my life and thankfully it doesn't have many idiots like you.
You need to get off 2dogs' case as well, I saw how you questioned his military career and it's obvious that 2dogs is a man of honour.
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Joe Blow,

New York, United States 26/10/2008 22:36:38
The REAL QUESTION Brits (Scots alike) should be asking themselves this election..."..will Europe and the rest of the world be better off with Obama in office..?"

Each time the media reports an Obama lead in the polls, the stock market reacts and dips rapidly in response. That should tell any "..thinking.." person which direction this race benefits them. :-)

You all better pray for a McCain/Palin victory if you don't want your country to remain in a shambles. If Obama wins, he gets one shot - 4 years - and my bet is he will be run out of the country before his term is ended.
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Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 22:42:58
#84 Lana

Yes, interesting except Russia never really had true Communism.
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26/10/2008 22:47:58
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Nellie,

Liverpool 26/10/2008 22:48:35
##117 True enough. I just can't get my head around how it happened that only one person was found guilty of that appalling mass rape and massacre ... Calley didn't do it all on his own, did he?
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 22:52:15
#127

"Each time the media reports an Obama lead in the polls, the stock market reacts and dips rapidly in response."

You know, it's funny . . . .I noticed the same thing, except it seemed to be right after another bank failure
or unemployment report. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly. . . .
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26/10/2008 22:55:28
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 22:57:48

SAY IT AIN'T SO !

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – The Anchorage Daily News, Alaska's largest newspaper, has endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for president.

The newspaper said Sunday the Democrat "brings far more promise to the office. In a time of grave economic crisis, he displays thoughtful analysis, enlists wise counsel and operates with a cool, steady hand."

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26/10/2008 23:02:54
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Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 23:09:45
I thought that British comedy, "Fawlty Towers" was quite funny but watching the republican party fall apart is even more hilarious.

McCain doesn't know that he and his bimbo mate have become irrelevant.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49P2U520081026
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26/10/2008 23:35:34
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Let's have the truth,

Queensland 26/10/2008 23:40:47
The real Postmark:

It seems "Horrible Cankers" under another assumed identity is polluting this forum again.

She is very easy to spot as very few are as vile as her.
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

26/10/2008 23:49:04

#134 - Shaniqua

"There are only a few unbiased papers left in the USA."

What unbiased papers would you suggest ?
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26/10/2008 23:56:21
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27/10/2008 00:24:10
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D. Feste - Illyria, OH,

27/10/2008 00:54:47

#140- Shaniqua

Thanks for your list. I appreciate your not jumping to conclusions.

I've always wondered why, with all of the technology and information-gathering resources available to the world media, that there should be any particular overwhelming bias one way or another. You would think that all of these opinions/facts would somehow cancel themselves out into pretty much of a draw, as far as
a particular "bias" would be concerned. There are simply so many sources, so much information, that it would be damn near impossible to arrive at any consensus of opinion whatever.

Why would the US media be "right" or "left ?"

Why would all of the folks collecting information, doing interviews, gathering news and privy to all of what is going on be tilted towards a "liberal" point of view, in your estimation ?

You realize, of course, that the "right" sees a left-leaning press. . . .while the "left" sees the opposite.
Your list of excellent sources is fairly tilted to
the "right," in my estimation, with a definite emphasis on business-friendly, conservative reporting.
That's just my opinion. . . .

By the way, Chris Buckley, son of Wm. F. Buckley, of National Review fame, just endorsed Obama.

What do you make of that ? Is the National Review now a "liberal" publication ?

Does it matter any more ?


142

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27/10/2008 01:00:24
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27/10/2008 01:21:31
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27/10/2008 01:21:45
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DaughterofScotland,

Too far from Alba 27/10/2008 01:31:52
#142

"The press is also rampant with homosexuals."

And even if it is? What's your point?
146

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27/10/2008 01:35:14
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Johnnyf,

Scotland 27/10/2008 01:36:20
#144 Dr David K.
Your wee parable wouldn't be quite right in Lochee, Dundee, beacause they all get their 'giros' fae the government on different days and take turns of footing the bill. Anyway, four men wouldn't be in the company if they habitually didn't buy a round. Simple as that.
Dr J Fitzgerald Phd(Cambridge), BSC, BA(hons), PGSCE, et al.
148

Johnnyf,

Scotland 27/10/2008 01:37:32
Spelled because wrong, slip of the finger
149

DaughterofScotland,

Too far from Alba 27/10/2008 01:38:22
#146

I see you live your life by generalizations and stereotypes. By your definition, anyone who is homosexual can't possibly be open-minded or carry out a job where objectivity is key.
150

Johnnyf,

Scotland 27/10/2008 01:40:13
#146 Shaniqua
You are so right wing that Hitler would have nothing to do with you. And, your name sounds so ethnic wow!
151

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27/10/2008 01:41:43
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27/10/2008 01:43:06
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Johnnyf,

Scotland 27/10/2008 01:55:41
So Shaniqua,
I'm a left wing extremist and you are middle of the road.
OK. but you are still on the far right of me are you not? I'm actually voting Liberal Democrat at the next UK elections. You see in the UK, we vote for political parties and not an X Factor/Pop Idol kind of jumped from anywhere, scared the kids, kind of character unfortunately you have to vote for in the States.
I said in an earlier post , and will reiterate that for the first time in my life, I have repeatedly heard British politicians, government ministers and opposition members FEARING Sarah Palin being a 'heartbeat away'.It is a dread we all wake up in the middle of the night, screaming NO,NO, No, this must be a joke.
154

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27/10/2008 03:11:48
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Postmark-55,

China, 27/10/2008 04:02:49
Post #54 is not Carolyn 1, I did the copy test on her name and it is the imposter striking yet again, and yet again the Scotsman, being the unprofessionals that they are, let it go.
And no Carolyn 1, I'm not coming to your defence but rather exposing the fraudster amongst us.
156

Danny the Scot,

Scotland 27/10/2008 08:10:36
Obama leads McCain by 9 points (52-43 percent) in a national Gallup poll published yesterday based on likely voters current voting intentions. It looks like America may just get a real President instead of an old cripple and his nurse-maid Palin
157

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27/10/2008 08:36:14
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27/10/2008 09:42:58
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27/10/2008 10:56:50
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Nellie,

Liverpool 27/10/2008 11:59:14
#144 Rosie's Opinion

Your logic is faultless but the ethics are foul.

What you describe is a pragmatic reason for letting richer people escape from a fair tax system, not an ethical one. If we conduct our lives according to amoral pragmatic principles then we allow the tail to wag the dog. It means we allow pragmatic decisions to undermine the foundation of fairness in society that those decisions are supposed to support.

In short, it means we come to worship pragmatism, not principle.
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Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 12:58:48
@155,158,159
Thank you Postmark, Enquiring Scot and Vida.

Just when I was thinking chivalry and honesty was a thing of the past, I learn it is not:)

Sincerely, thanks guys, Carolyn


Will all of us with 'l's in our name, need to get a new name?
162

Nellie,

Liverpool 27/10/2008 13:35:41
#161 - Sorry I didn't spot that. Looks like I may have to change my own name!!
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seanie,

27/10/2008 13:45:31
Still waiting for some evidence that Obama ever voted 'present' in the US Senate.
164

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 14:00:28
@163 seanie
Still waiting?? Ooops.
Please see post at 96

FWIW, Obama voted 'present' more than a 100 times in Illinois senate
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seanie,

27/10/2008 14:12:54
I've seen post #96.

The links don't support your assertion that "on the Bail-out bill, the most pivotal piece of legislation the Congress may ever pass, a bill that's supposed to rescue the country he cares about, and the Messiah voted "Present" ??

To reiterate;

First you claimed Obama voted 'present' on the bailout bill, "the most pivotal piece of legislation the Congress may ever pass" in your own words.

When it's shown he in fact voted in favour of it you changed tack to;

"The present vote was on the first bail-out bill, not the one that passed."

Except of course the first bail-out bill never went before the Senate so he couldn't have voted on it in any way shape or form

Then you seemed to be suggesting that Obama voted 'present' on the AIG bailout.

But there was no vote on the AIG bailout. It was emergency action undertaken by the Federal Reserve.

And even if there had been Senator Obama couldn't have voted 'present'.

You cannot vote 'present' in the United States Senate.


166

Carolyn 1,

27/10/2008 15:52:59
@165 seanie
1. I said I made a mistake, -to be specific I did not correctly interpret headlines, the link to which I provided. If that explanation is too complicated for you, may I suggest you quit the idea of being a lawyer, judge and jury

2. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00

0044 18-Dec H.R. 2764 H.R. 2764;
Border Infrastructure and Technology Modernization Act

S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On the Motion (Reid Motion to Concur in House Amdt. No. 1 to Senate Amdt. to H.R. 2764 )
Vote Number: 441 Vote Date: December 18, 2007, 10:34 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Motion Agreed to
Measure Number: H.R. 2764 (Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, 2008 )
Measure Title: A bill making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2008, and for other purposes.
Vote Counts: YEAs 76
NAYs 17
Present 1
Not Voting 6

 

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