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Hezbollah militants hand over bodies of Israeli troops

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Published Date: 16 July 2008
HEZBOLLAH militants today handed over the bodies of two Israeli soldiers to the Red Cross as part of a prisoner exchange.
Video footage showed two coffins being loaded into Red Cross vehicles on the Israel-Lebanon border.

It was the first confirmation that the two Israeli soldiers captured two years ago are dead.

Guerrillas took the soldiers in a July 2006 cross-border raid that sparked a month-long war with Israel.

Once in Israel, DNA tests will be conducted to confirm the bodies' identities.

"We are handing over the two Israeli soldiers that were captured by the resistance and whose fate has been unknown until this moment," said senior Hezbollah security official Wafik Safa. "Now you know their fate."

The transfer is part of a United Nations-mediated deal in which Israel promised to release five Lebanese prisoners and the bodies of nearly 200 dead militants.

Israel moved the five Lebanese prisoners to a military base near the seaside border before dawn, preparing for their transfer to Lebanon.

They will not be handed over to the Red Cross in Lebanon until the identify of the bodies of the Israeli soldiers is confirmed.





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  • Last Updated: 16 July 2008 11:21 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

James Donald,

Newbridge 16/07/2008 14:14:33
From the BBC:
"Israel identifies dead soldiers"
"The Israeli army has confirmed that human remains handed over by Lebanon's Hezbollah as part of a prisoner swap are those of two of its soldiers.
The two men, Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser, were captured in 2006, but it was not certain they had died.
In return, Israel is handing over five Lebanese prisoners and the bodies of 200 Lebanese and Palestinian fighters.
The capture of the two Israeli soldiers sparked a month-long war between Israel and the Shia Islamist militant group.
Israeli generals have reportedly visited both the soldiers' families to inform them personally of the identification.
Earlier, the soldiers' relatives broke down in tears as they saw the images of Hezbollah handing over the two coffins. Before the swap, it was unclear whether the two soldiers were alive or dead".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7508715.stm
There have been a lot of comments for this story already (be aware that the comments are FULLY moderated):
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=5115&edition=1&ttl=20080716141613

2

James Donald,

Newbridge 16/07/2008 14:22:18
Anyone have any news on Cpl Shalit?
3

billengland,

16/07/2008 15:04:20
Anyone have any news about Israel releasing the approx 11000 political prisoners?
4

Gabriel,

edinburgh 16/07/2008 15:09:28
This was an unfair prisoner exchange. As soon as it was clear that the 2 Israelis were in coffins, Samir Kuntar should have been executed and also returned in a coffin. The Middle East is a tough neighbourhood.
5

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 16/07/2008 16:14:45
And Hezbollah declares they have won and will throw celebrations for these 5 miserable excuses for human beings.
They won nothing except the contempt of millions of people around the world. More PR campaigns for these louts.
Israel is releasing the lowest of the low. Someone who made a toddler watch her father get killed before the same man took a rifle butt to her head.
He really did belong going back in a coffin. He is not human.
Nazrallah is also really a..There are no words for him. He brags that he has body parts of Jews to be returned, before he returns them in boxes. This is human? This is an animal. They show the world what they really are.
6

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 16/07/2008 16:22:40
Cpl. Shalit, will be continue to be held. The Red Cross hasn't been able to see him either. Why? Because they might find out the truth about Hamas.
This "prisoner exchange" has only emboldened Hamas. They will raise the stakes. These 5 are convicted murders, not just "prisoners". They make it sound as if they were prisoners of war.
Just like trading the land for peace. They get back the land, but Israel still has no peace.
We shall soon see how long this exchange for Shalit will take place.
7

,

16/07/2008 16:35:11
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8

James Donald,

Newbridge 16/07/2008 17:08:33
#7 Gere,Scotland - Begin was also responsible for a letter bomb attack on the (anti-Nazi) post-war German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, a terrorist long after the foundation of the Israeli state. He and his terro group are still revered by prominent Israeli politicians such as Benjamin Netanyahu - it is not only the Palestinians that spawn extremists.
9

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 16/07/2008 20:55:45
Gere...Do you walk upright?
10

American,

16/07/2008 21:56:59
39-lynne- Of course gere walks upright! How else would he be able to salute his swatztika flag or pray to allah?
11

James Donald,

Newbridge 16/07/2008 22:08:13
#9 & #10 - This hardly passes for a reasonable argument especially from those who are quick to point an accusatory finger when insults are fired in their direction. Shame on you both.
12

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 16/07/2008 23:47:43
American..now this animal is made "a New symbol of the Arab Nation" (according to his adoptive mother). He has never uttered one word of remorse for killing that child. I don't know if you remember, but while he was taken from his apartment with his daughter, his wife and another daughter, (smaller) hid in an attic closet, while her mother tried to keep her quiet, and not crying, so they would not found, that little girl died of suffocation.
And the word on the street in Israel, is the price for Shalit has now gone up.. Didn't take Hamas long to raise it.
They are heroes...right?
13

,

17/07/2008 01:56:44
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14

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 08:39:28
From the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7510686.stm
"Beirut welcomes freed prisoners"
"Woe betide the people who celebrate the release of a beastly man who bludgeoned the skull of a four-year-old toddler," Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said in a statement before he was due to meet the soldiers' families".
How typical of a politician to make such a statement, when it was he that was ultimately responsible for his release.

15

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 10:28:31
The wife of the man he murdered and the mother of that child he murdered met with the families and Ohlmert to say she understands why those soldiers must come back to Israel and she was for it.. Frankly, Israel has proven itself to be humane, while Hezbollah has proven itself as opened itself to world-wide comdemnation. The fact the Red Cross did not know these soldiers were dead until the last minute when 2 coffins were given to them proves they are nothing but a bunch of animals.
16

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 12:00:56
Israel scarcely showed itself to be "humane" when it launched its attack on Lebanon in 2006, its "humanity" being limited to certain of its own citizens.
"A human rights group has accused Israel of carrying out indiscriminate air strikes that killed hundreds of civilians during the 2006 Lebanon war.
Human Rights Watch (based in New York) said Israel showed "reckless indifference" to the fate of civilians and queried its argument that Hezbollah used them as human shields" (the group HRG also criticised the behaviour of Hezbollah during the conflict).
The 250 page report "Why they died - Civilian Casualties in Lebanon during the 2006 War" is available to read here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/06_09_07_hrwlebanon.pdf
(it is not entirely critical of Israel and is also scathing in its criticism of Hezbollah).
Israel's vastly disproportionate attack caused the death of 1,109 Lebanese and wounding of 4,399 others, the majority of these being civilians. The war also displaced about 1 million civilians as refugees, destroyed much of the infrastructure of the country in the South and left a legacy of death in the shape of thousands of unexploded cluster (and other) munitions.
17

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 12:06:40
The success of this "exchange" is not entirely down to Hezbollah and the Israeli state but rather is a success for the German Bundesnachrichtendienst:
"Germany's success as Mid-East broker"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7504194.stm
18

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 13:10:18
Goldwasser's father, Shlomo, in a voice of ice-edged fury, asked the Lebanese people to consider the sacrifices they made during the war sparked by Hizballah's kidnapping of Regev and his own son. "They've lost some 800 men and their entire economy, and for what? For someone who killed a four-year old? Can someone like that be called a hero? He's nothing more than a b*****d." Many Israelis agreed, but the high price of freeing Kuntar was worth it, they say, to bring home Israel's two lost sons for burial.

19

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 13:14:03
#16..If you don't want a war...don't start a war.
You keep forgetting that the war was a result of kidnapping 2 soldiers, and killing 3 others..
How they go about getting back their kidnapped soldiers is the fault of Hezbollah. Hiding among civilians is the fault of Hezbollah, using human shields is the fault of Hezbollah..Put the blame where the blame belongs.
20

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 13:15:19
#16

You are forever giving a pass to the very people who started the war, and the methods THEY use.
21

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 13:36:09
Pro-Israeli propagandists are requested (by the blatant propaganda tool that is http://giyus.org/)to do their bit for the continuing propaganda war which escalated after the disaster of the 2006 war:
"Samir Kuntar may be returning to Lebanon, but please help us spread this video about his hideous crimes.
http://ws.collactive.com/points/point?id=l0ZlZpXfEvDL
President Peres slams Lebanon celebrations, stresses differences between Israel, Hizbullah
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693909.ece
22

,

17/07/2008 13:36:37
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23

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 13:46:43
#19 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - It was Israel that invaded Lebanon in case your memory isn't that good. Hezbollah may have kidnapped Israelie soldiers but Hezbollah is not Lebanon and Israel attacked the whole of Lebanon (Hezbollah, Lebanese civilians, Lebanese Communists, Phalangist, Police and Lebanese Army) not just Hezbollah and their strongholds. The blame belongs on all sides: Hezbollah for attacking Israeli civilians, the Israelis for their disproportionate and reckless attack and the Lebanese stae for (a) not bringing the Hezbollah militia to heel and (more importantly) not resisting an attack on its sovereign territory by a hostile foreign state.
The Lebanese state should be heavily (re)armed, equipped and trained to a high standard (some EU countries have helped already and Belgium recently supplied upgraded Leopard 1 Main Battle tanks). That way it will be able to suppress internal attacks from various militias as well as resisting (defeating and deterring) powerful neighbours Israel and Syria.
24

billengland,

17/07/2008 13:59:26
15
Lynne,

"Israel has proven itself to be humane"

I've read everything now.

For sixty years Israel has invaded, occupied, murdered, injured, exiled, tortured, brutalised and starved hundreds of thousands yea millions of innocents.

Humane? Israel? The two words can't be put in the same sentence.
25

,

17/07/2008 14:43:00
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26

,

17/07/2008 15:17:54
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27

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 15:48:51
I can go back too.

In February 2, 1978. an announcement had been made by Palestinian "spokesmen" that they had injected exported Israel oranges in Europe with mercury. Five Dutch children fell ill, having eaten the poisoned fruit. Within days, mercury-injected oranges and lemons turned up in Holland, West Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium. The poisoning by the Palestinians was done in Rotterdam where the oranges and lemons were being repackaged for sale in European stores. No children were killed in the Palestinian "action".
It would be in the following year (1979) that Samir Kuntar (what the press would call a Palestinian "activist" or perhaps "fighter") kidnapped an Israeli and his 4-year old daughter. He dragged them to the beach where he shot and killed the father in front of the little girl so that it "would be the last thing she ever saw". He then "smashed the child's head on a rock with the butt of his rifle".

28

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 16:00:40
Gere, it's not hatred, or deep resentment..you have to know both sides.
The fact is, Palestinians are TAUGHT to hate Jews..the Jews in Israel are taught to HOPE for peace.
Big difference.
29

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/07/2008 16:06:57
Everyone can "go back" and bring up the misdeeds of the past:
"On July 21 1973, a team of Israeli hitmen shot dead a Moroccan waiter, Ahmed Bouchikhi, as he walked home from the cinema with his pregnant wife in the resort, 110 miles north of Oslo.
The assassins apparently mistook Bouchikhi for Hassan Salameh, a PLO intelligence chief suspected of masterminding the killing of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
"This was much more than a murder," said Gullow Gjeseth, head of the six-member government commission. "This was a violation of Norwegian sovereignty. It is a completely special case."".
Israel has never admitted responsibility for this killing nor has it apologised to the Bouchikhi family(although it has paid them "Hush money") or the Norwegian state.
Acknowledgement of past misdeeds is the first step into the future; finger-waging, name calling and the politics of revenge will ensure another generation of hate and death.

30

,

17/07/2008 16:38:11
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31

Gere,

Scotland 17/07/2008 16:56:14
Post#10 American

I was amused to read your comment about my praying to Allah! You Pray to an Asian God on the cross probably every Sunday. Lynne prays to an equally intolerant Asian God on Saturdays at Synagoge, the Muslims pray to the same intolerant Asian God you and Lynne pray to except they do it on Fridays and call him Allah.

I do not pray to Asian Gods! The name I use for my posts are an english translation of the Sacred Rune Script characters that should be pronounced Yay-Reh.

This is the name of one of the wolfhounds of the Lord Odin.

If you want to worship with me you are welcome to come the Orkney Isles and worship at the temple of the moon built some 5,0000 years ago. This was before the Pyramids and even after Europeans adopted the worship of the intolerant Jewish / Asian God on the cross I and others like me continued to worship our European Gods when necessary in secret and preserved our tradition to this very day.

I hope this clears up my religous beliefs for you!!!
32

Gere,

Scotland 17/07/2008 16:57:30
Post #31

Apologies, the figure should read over 5,000 years ago!
33

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 17:00:43
Gere, Blah, Blah, Blah, the same anti-Israel garbage.
Israel is not on a journey that includes suicide.
When someone says they want to kill you, you believe them. When someone says they want to drive you into the sea, you believe them. They have the right to defend themselves.
If there had been no agression by the Arabs, no war, and no invasion by Arab armies, not only would there have been no Arab refugees, but there would have been a state Of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948. But guess what...the Arabs chose War and terrorism.
34

SouthernGent,

17/07/2008 18:01:18
If Isreal is willing to swap prisoners for bodies, the precedent has been set. Hezbollah has been given a green light to kill any present or future captives.
35

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 17/07/2008 18:38:30
Soutern Gent.. I'm afraid you are right. This will only encourage Hezbollah to try more kidnappings, and then they have nothing to lose by killing the victims.
What a shame..what a shame. Now we have to wait to see how many Hamas wants freed before they trade 1 prisoner.. the ante has gone up.
36

American,

17/07/2008 21:07:13
#31-gere-Glad to amuse you. It's too bad the article is sad though.
Anyway, I do not praise my God on Sunday. Actually, I thank the Lord everday for what I have in my life. But, I am a heathen because I do not attend church. I was brought up Roman Catholic and was taught that we are supposed to live by the ten commandments. I was also taught to be tolerant of others beliefs, which I am---unless the religion is teaching non-tolerance against other religions, races, & way of life.......as it seems some (maybe many???) mosques do.

Why practice a religion secretly? Even tom cruise is proud of his religion.
37

American,

17/07/2008 21:36:19
#31-gere-Thanks for your invite to your little isle. If it wasnt so cold there in the summer, it would be a place to consider for vacation (checked it on the web). Must be a really nice place to live, if you dont mind being a little cold in the spring and summer.
38

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 10:02:49
From the BBC:
"ISRAEL CONDEMNS QANTAR ON YOUTUBE"
"Israel's government has posted a video on the website, YouTube, explaining to the Arab world its position on the freed Lebanese militant, Samir Qantar.
Qantar, convicted of murdering three people, had been Lebanon's longest-held prisoner in Israel until Wednesday.
His release, part of an exchange for the remains of two Israeli soldiers, was greeted with jubilation in Lebanon.
But the video says in Arabic that for the rest of the civilised world Qantar is "the most despicable of murderers"".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7512373.stm
Whilst some might think this an unusual move, others will simply see it as bizarre. Israel has already condemned this guy (or "animal" as another poster called him - a small step away from "Untermensch" I feel) at his trial when he was a mere 16 year old boy, so this move and other provocative steps taken by the Israelis to bring its propaganda message to the Arab world (as well as its threats and bluster)seem like a scalded cat reaction.
Israel has enough minions around the World to spread its message (this site being no exception) with the aid of GIYUS and the like, so this posturing is unhelpful and probably more to do with internal Israeli politics and the PM's position (distractions like this are good when people are calling you a crook).

39

Gere,

Scotland 18/07/2008 14:20:54
Post #36 American

The reason for practising our Pagan European heritage in secret was that the tolerant followers of the intolerant Asian God on the cross, the Christians used to murder our ancestors if they were discovered worshiping our ancestral Gods.

It was only as a result of a court case in the 1950's that Pagans in Britain could practise their ancient European religion openly without facing charges of "witchcraft" being brought against them by the "tolerant" Christians you maintain exist.

Why the Christians are so tolerant that the Heir to the British Crown is prohibited from accepting another Christian faith known as Catholicism, he or she cannot even marry a Catholic. How tolerant can your Christians get?????
40

,

18/07/2008 14:28:29
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41

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 14:39:04
#38..You act as if this subhuman was a POW. He was a CONVICTED MURDERER.

from Australian News:
Samir Qantar, Lebanon's longest serving prisoner released by Israel as part of a swap deal, says he has no regrets over the killings for which he was convicted.
"I haven't for even one day regretted what I did," he said as he arrived at his family home in the Druze village of Aabey, south-east of Beirut. "On the contrary I remain committed to my political convictions."
He was convicted of killing a police officer, a man, and the man's four-year-old daughter, whose head he was accused of smashing in with his rifle butt.

GO AHEAD...give the terrorist another pass...that's your specialty.

42

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 14:55:04
#38

You talk about propaganda? ok..please, comment on this.

Al Azhar TV's children's program comes with a hard propaganda edge. (Flickr: Aaronyx, file photo)
A children's television program - broadcast by the Islamist militant group Hamas - regularly features disturbing topics such as death, destruction and martyrdom.Young Hamas star
Sara Barhoum is no ordinary 12-year-old - she is a straight A student and television star, hosting her own program on a TV station run by Hamas.
Every Friday after prayers, Barhoum presents Pioneers of Tomorrow on Hamas's Al Azhar TV.
Al Azhar TV's children's program comes with a hard propaganda edge.
For example in a skit, Nahoul the Bee is desperately ill and pays the ultimate price for the Israeli blockade and Egypt's decision to cooperate with it.
After his death, Nahoul was replaced on the show by his rabbit brother Assud, which means lion. Assud's fate, according to Hamas, will reflect the fate of the Palestinian people.
Last year Pioneers of Tomorrow featured the story of Farfour the Mouse.
Farfour received an inheritance loaded with symbolism from his dying grandfather. The key and deeds to the home, the one they owned in Tel Aviv before Israel was created. However, then Farfour came up against an Israeli agent.
The Israeli agent asks the mouse for the documents, to which Farfor replies: I won't give them to criminal despicable terrorists.


Criticism
Meanwhile, critics have accused Hamas of using its television arm to prepare its young viewers to be suicide bombers.


43

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 14:57:40
continued

In Jerusalem, the broadcasts are being monitored by a private think tank, the Middle East Media Research Institute.

"What is particularly disturbing with this program is that it is aiming at very young children with messages that are filled with images and expressions of death, martyrdom, killing," he said.

Al Azhar TV is not only raising the ire of Israelis, but of many Palestinians as well.
Hazem Abu Shanab from the media studies section of Al Azhar University says the programming changes children.
"He is not a child anymore, he's something different. He's a person with hatred, with different emotions, with a different way of thinking," he said.
"No one can imagine that a child, that the childhood, that these very tiny, good human persons we all love and want them to be the best people in the world, there they are turning into monsters using these terminologies and using this way of vindication."



44

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 15:28:39
#41 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - First off, there is no need for capitals Mrs Shouty; show some manners for once.
Qantar may have said "I haven't for even one day regretted what I did" but he denied killing the Harans (as he did at his show trial) and his lack of regret means that he does not regret taking part in the armed struggle against Israel.
Rather a different verion from what you have posted but thank you for illustrating so clearly what I meant by "Israel has enough minions around the World to spread its message (this site being no exception) with the aid of GIYUS and the like".
If this "terrorist" has been given a pass, then it is by the Israeli government as it is they that released him after 30 years in jail (many PIRA and UDA killers were released having spent much less time in jail than this as part of a process to bring peace to Northern Ireland which seems to have worked).
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/997967.html
45

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 15:33:47
#42 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - "You talk about propaganda? ok..please, comment on this" - I don't do requests, and I have little time for propagandists and extremists of either side (of which there is no shortage).
Specifically I do not fulfil the wishes of those who would have the World believe that the Middle East conflict is entirely the fault of the Arabs as you indicated at post #33.
46

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 16:05:28
The Israeli state did not appear overnight without a considerable amount of bloodshed cause by Arab extremism and Jewish terrorism:
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10A1FF6345E17738DDDA90B94DA415B8788F1D3&scp=2&sq=terrorist+Irgun&st=p
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0E16F93D55147B93C4A81783D85F438485F9&scp=3&sq=terrorist+Irgun&st=p
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,887512,00.html
http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/45fc0c6e511ec0c5802564d400560ca0!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,terrorists,bernadotte
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1286/8612004.html
Disgusting atrocities were committed back them in the name of the goal of an Israeli State (the murder of the Swedish diplomat Count Bernadotte was particularly brutal and callous) just as disgusting atrocities are committed by Palestinians in pursuit of their own state.
47

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 17:29:21
#46

What's the matter JD? You have the nerve to talk of manners? Since when do you have manners? You have insulted people on here numerous times, and when you didn't want to use your own name, you reosirted to the other aliases, thinking that people won't know it is you.
I'm not interested in your links, and I'm not interested in how you think I should write my posts. I once said that instead of using quotation marks, I would capitalize for the stress factor, not the shouting factor. It seems you must have forgotten that.
I am now posting on WHY Israel went to YouTube, because you seem to have LEFT THAT FACT OUT.

Mr Gendelman said the clip was part of a new Israeli initiative to target the Arab world directly through the internet.
"The age of waiting for an interview with an Arab station is over," he told Yedioth Ahronoth. "The aim is to create a dialogue through the channel's talkback mechanism."
Hezbollah's television station, al-Manar, is reporting that the Israelis are also sending voice messages to mobile phones in Lebanon, promising Israeli retaliation for any Hezbollah attack.


48

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 18:58:18
#46

And if you had read what I said, they could have had a state in 1948, but opted to attack Israel instead.
49

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 21:15:20
#47 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - Capital letter used here indicate poor etiquette, yet you continue to do it - that is what I mean by manners yet you choose to do it your way. As for insults, you same barely capable of making of making a single post without showering those with differing views with insults - you are shameless in your cheek. One other thing you forgot to add you are not interested in is an opinion or view other than your own.
If you had followed the link to the BBC site at my post #38, you would have read this:
"Mr Gendelman said the clip was part of a new Israeli initiative to target the Arab world directly through the internet.
"The age of waiting for an interview with an Arab station is over," he told Yedioth Ahronoth. "The aim is to create a dialogue through the channel's talkback mechanism."
Hezbollah's television station, al-Manar, is reporting that the Israelis are also sending voice messages to mobile phones in Lebanon, promising Israeli retaliation for any Hezbollah attack".
The Lebanese minister for telecommunications has said he has ordered his staff to take all necessary steps to stop such a "flagrant violation" of his country's sovereignty".
For "initiative" read "continued propaganda campaign" - Israel has aims but dialogue is not one of them.

50

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 21:26:08
#48 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - Israel had already decided to take the military option in 1948 and was spared the trouble of Count Bernadotte's peace plan because of his convenient murder by the terrorists of the Stern Gang (the trigger man Yehoshua Cohen went on to become Ben-Gurion's bodyguars rather than the short drop on the end of a rope he deserved). Menachim Begin admitted as much in his memoirs that he and his fellow extremists were terrified that the Palestinians would accept the peace plan as this would disrupt their plans for greater Israel. The Israelis were no more interested in peace in 1948 than they are now.
51

billengland,

18/07/2008 21:34:18
48
Lynne

"they could have had a state in 1948, but opted to attack Israel instead"

They had a state well before 1948, which was attacked and is still being attacked by Zionists and their creature Israel.
52

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 21:37:37
On April 19, 1947 the Irgun terrorist Dov Gruner was executed by the British in Palestine for the terrorist attack on a Police Station (previously he had attacked his erstwhile comrades of the British Army on several occaisions).
The terrorist Gruner is commemorated by the Israeli state in the form of a street name in occupied Jerusalem.
53

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 18/07/2008 21:46:38
You know, you boys( # 50- 51) should not write at all about things that happened between the Arabs and Israel There are facts, that neither you or your other IDs seem to want to face. You just rewrite history the way you want it, then you repeat it often. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat these lies and twist the facts, it doesn't change what has happened.
You can't repeat it often enough for it to become true.
You choose to do this your way and you are not changing the truth.. Keep trying though, you might get through to some dummy, stupid enough to believe you.
54

American,

18/07/2008 23:03:55
#39-gere-Shouldnt the key word be "ancestors". And I can honestly say I dont ever remember hearing about anyone being brought up on "witchcraft charges" in my lifetime. FYI-We have practicing "witches" as a religion (known as wicca) and "satanics" in our country. Seems news travels quite slowly to your little isles. Dont know what the problem is with the royal families though.
55

James Donald,

Newbridge 18/07/2008 23:04:42
#53 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - I took my facts from Wikipedia and a British Book called "Mandate Days", so I am not re-writing anything. Seems there are some unpleasant facts about your precious Israel that do t bear close examination if your "its all the fault of the Arabs" myth is to be maintained. You might find some dummy stupid enough to belive your GIYUS-inspired claptrap but none are biting today. Tough luck and better luck tomorrow.
56

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 19/07/2008 00:38:43
Wikipedia is edited by people like you. Just add what they want, and anybody can do it. In the high school here it is not allowed as a reference. Try looking for something better, where you won't repeat claptrap.
I never said Israel has never been wrong..What I said was Israel has been defending herself since 1948..and I can recommend some books for you too. Just for some insight and truth.
57

James Donald,

Newbridge 19/07/2008 08:07:06
#56 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - Not ncehav I witten or edited an article on Wikpedia so, not for the first time, what you have written is false. I am not at a High School in he USA and I used Wikipedia (as I am certain you have done also) as a matter of convenence in this case to save me looking through the books "The Stern Gang: Ideology, Politics and Terror, 1940-1949" by Joseph Heller (you may recall him as the Jewish author of Catch 22") and "Terror Out of Zion: Irgun Zvai Leumi, Lehi and the Palestine Underground, 1929-1949" by J. Bowyer Bell (an American academic who also wrote about the IRA).
You have never once criticised Israel (unless it is to say it has been to soft) and, in your view, the entire Middle East conflict has been and continues to be the fault of the Arabs. This being the case, I do not need your "insight" and "truth"; it is jingoism of the worst sort.
58

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 19/07/2008 08:27:08
Keep using Wikipedia then..it has been proven wrong numerous amounts of times, that is why it is not used here in the high schools. Far be it for me to try and give you some advice. Just keep taking shortcuts.
As usual, you are putting words in my mouth...Forget it.
It has been Israel that has been threatened by the surrounding countries..something you keep forgetting.
I can give you a list of books, but it would not be appreciated, would go on blind eyes and deaf ears, and it's very early around 3:30 in the morning here, and I am typing in the dark.. from me there will be no insights or truth for you. Stay..blind and deaf
59

billengland,

19/07/2008 08:54:03
53, 56
Lynne

Palestinians had a state well before 1948, which was attacked and is still being attacked by Zionists and their creature Israel. This is historical fact, borne out by evidence.

Israel has been attacking Palestine since 1948, as the Zionists were doing a century earlier - fact.
60

P·K ,

19/07/2008 09:38:37
#4
Quote: “This was an unfair prisoner exchange. As soon as it was clear that the 2 Israelis were in coffins, Samir Kuntar should have been executed and also returned in a coffin.” Unquote.

Well said. If the two dead soldiers were alive, I doubt they would agree to this kind of swap – 2 dead bodies for 1 living notorious convicted murderer as well as 4 living militants. And if I were a Jew, I would not want the present government to represent me. The Israelis will be better off if Olmert is pushed out.

As what some readers had posted -
“Why the Israelis keep their prisoners alive (at the expense of tax payers) when they know their soldiers will be returned in coffins?
Why aren't the convicted murderer hang for his crime?
If the Israeli soldiers were captured alive, and then killed by Hezbollah, the Israelis should have returned all their prisoners in boxes. As it is, they let murderers go free.
This kind of Political Correctness is stupid in combatting terrorism.
As long as Israel is willing to swap live prisoners for the bodies of dead soldiers, the terrorists will have no incentive to keep captives alive. A capture/kidnap and kill business to save trouble for them then!”
61

P·K ,

19/07/2008 09:40:30
When is the killing of a child is considered heroic? Samir Qantar deliberately smashed the head and killed a child, after shooting her father to death in front of her. And extremists from CAIR and Hezboo supporters honouring a beast as a hero who crushed the skull of a harmless innocent 4 years old girl! How despicable this is?

This is a clear victory for terrorism and convicted murderer. Israel under Olmert has done nothing but reward, encourage kidnapping and empowering the resistance. All just for two dead bodies! The one believed to be alive who was kidnapped by Hamas, Gilad Shalit is forgotten. The murderers should have never been released and now after being set free, they swear for martyrdom to kill even more!
62

P·K ,

19/07/2008 09:42:23
The words "Palestinian people" does not exist in the past centuries! The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing struggle against the state of Israel in the interest of Arab unity. Arabs first took the name “Palestinians” in 1967. The Arabs in Gaza and West Bank have since then conveniently called themselves Palestinians!
63

billengland,

19/07/2008 12:12:17
62
P·K

Check your facts; Palestine has existed for millennia.

Ancient Israel, the spiritual home of the Jews in Palestine, was almost unpopulated at the beginning of the nineteenth century, when there were only a few thousand Jews living there.
64

P·K ,

19/07/2008 12:33:26
#63

Have you just woken up or lost your glasses, contact lenses?? Open your eyes bigger and read carefully, will you? I was referring to people and not nation.
65

billengland,

19/07/2008 15:41:37
#64

So was I.

Palestinians who live in Palestine; Arabs, Jews, Christians et al.
66

P·K ,

19/07/2008 16:42:24
#65

Don't respond with lies! Your first sentence at #63 tells it all. It's obvious your main point of contention (first priority) was on the existence of Palestine and not about the dwellers. My post above was regarding the issue of people, nothing to do with anything Palestine as a nation. Probably, you don't have a good sleep last night and still day dreaming!
67

Gere,

Scotland 19/07/2008 18:25:50
Post#54 American

Your reading comprehension skills need working on!

Please re-read my post, I was refering to the law in the United Kingdom! In the late 1940's a Mrs Duncan from Dundee, Scotland was imprisoned for practising "Witchcraft"

68

billengland,

19/07/2008 18:40:15
P·K

You are tying yourself in knots!

I could better rewrite your #62 as:

The words "Israeli people" do not exist in the past centuries! The creation of an Israeli state is only a means for continuing struggle against the Palestinians in the in the interests of Zionist unity. Zionists first took the name “Israelis” in 1948. The Zionists in Palestine have since then conveniently called themselves Israelis!
69

James Donald,

Newbridge 19/07/2008 20:10:42
#58 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - Wikipedia is not my only source and, in any case, the links I posted were references linked to the Wikipedia article. I don't really want to go to too much trouble posting a response to you as you have a closed mind and will ignore what I post in any case. No point in wasting any time on the likes of you.
Lets not kid ourselves that you do not believe that the Middle East conflict is entirely the fault of the Arabs. Israel has attacked its neighbours on many occaisions and is far from blameless. Even in 2006 it reacted to Hezbollah pinprick attacks with a full-blown invasion of the South of Lebanon, a savage over-reaction that was prepared well in advance.
If you are sitting in the dark it is little wonder you are blind; if you are deaf, it must be down to you age.
70

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 19/07/2008 22:03:26
#69

Back to age? I'm probably younger than you. As for the rest...Well, I'm not wasting my time anymore on Garbage, Semantics or anything else with you.
If you want to live in the twisted past that you keep referring to, go ahead. Nothing gets accomplished that way.
71

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 19/07/2008 22:07:07
Right now, Israel is still trading land for that elusive peace that never comes. Hamas and it's charter will keep up the fighting, Hezbollah too.
So, those are the facts, and when they do, they should understand that Israel will not stand idly by and do nothing in return. They should expect reprisals, and instead of putting the women and children in harms way (like they always do, as human shields) they should be men instead of cowards.
If you don't want wars...don't start wars.
72

James Donald,

Newbridge 20/07/2008 00:48:45
#70 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - "I'm probably younger than you" - Sure you are Granny. Feel free not to waste any more time with my posts which bring up uncomfortable truths about your beloved Israeli state.
Truth is you are only interested in peace on Israeli terms, are insanely prejudice against Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular and are unconcerned with victims of this conflict that are not Israelis.
Israel only trades land it has conquered in wars (you suggest the Arabs always start) and does not really want. It will always keep the land it wants in Jerusalem and the West Bank. This territory is being annexed to Israel right now and it is this that is one of the main reasons that peace is so elusive and a lack of will.
73

P·K ,

20/07/2008 09:25:45
#68

What a darn stupid concoction of yours rewriting my post out of convenience to escape countering the real issue and out of frustration to suit your political agenda! This simply shows how very desperate you are, having to change subject and into something new, talking about Israeli people instead despite my first post was all in reference to Palestinian people. It has nothing to do with your new concoction, in fact no where in my first post did I ever mention the Israeli people.

Your latest post only serves to prove yourself being a loser running out of constructive argument to counter the real subject regarding Palestinian people which we are discussing initially. You are incapable of thinking for yourself, that you have to quote my statement from my first post, copy and paste only later to replace certain words for the purpose of twisting the real issue to suit your agenda. You aren’t very smart and truly pathetic!
If you have to depend or rely other posters’ quotes here by copying and pasting to form one’s opinion, this shows you are intellectually bankrupt, presenting a weak case of argument and proving yourself a moron.
74

P·K ,

20/07/2008 09:36:41
#68

It was the UN who created the Jewish state. If you have problems with the creation along with the present existence of the state of Israel, approach the UN authority in New York. Air ticket isn't expensive travelling in economy class.

 

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