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Now Islam overtakes Catholicism as the world's biggest faith

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Published Date: 31 March 2008
ISLAM has overtaken Roman Catholicism as the biggest single religious denomination in the world, according to new figures.
In its newly-released 2008 yearbook of statistics, the Vatican claims Muslims now make up 19.2 per cent of the world's population with Catholics at 17.4 per cent.

In the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, Monsignor Vittorio Formenti, wrote: "For the first time in history we are no longer at the top: the Muslims have overtaken us."

However, he said that if all Christian groups were considered, including Orthodox churches, Anglicans and Protestants, then Christians made up 33 per cent of the world's population – or about two billion people.

The Vatican recently put the number of Catholics in the world at 1.13 billion. It did not provide a figure for Muslims, estimated at about 1.3 billion.

Numbers for other major world religions include an estimated 785 million Hindus, 360 million Buddhists and 17 million Jews.

Mgr Formenti said that while the number of Catholics as a proportion of the world's population was fairly stable, the percentage of Muslims was growing because of higher birth rates.

However, Bashir Maan, convenor of the Muslim Council of Scotland, said he thought that Islam was probably the largest religion in the world.

And he said it was not just down to higher birth rates, but because more people were converting to Islam.

"It is difficult to get a true figure of the number of Muslims in the world because trying to establish numbers in underdeveloped Muslim countries is very difficult.

"But if proper figures could be obtained from those countries then I think it would show Islam as the largest religion in the world."

He said that people were attracted to the religion looking for "spiritualism". He conceded that recent terror attacks had turned many people against Islam – but added the religion had benefited from other people studying the religion to find out its true message.

"These people are discovering a tolerant and accommodating religion," he said.

A spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland said it was important to look beyond the figures.

"While it is a little unseemly to swap figures, a more realistic comparison would be between the Christian population of the world and the Muslim population, a comparison which would show the Christian world to be significantly bigger," he said.

He added: "Christianity and Islam are both 'religions of the Book' – they share their origins in the Old Testament – and although there are some hot spots of tension in the world, there is also a wide area of common concern for Christians and Muslims, especially on such issues as the family and the sacredness of life."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 30 March 2008 9:22 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 31/03/2008 01:07:03
They can all believe what they like as long as they leave me alone. I go direct and avoid all the middlemen.

No man made, organised religion for me - it's the same effing God.

And by the way, mine doesn't mind me telling him he's an effing twot when I feel like it.
2

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta ...smell the burn. 31/03/2008 01:52:19

Jock Tamson,
Scotland,

-------------------------------

The GOD I believe in dude ...ain't short of cash..

GC
3

Scullion,

Canada 31/03/2008 02:31:35
The alcohol and pork industries can't be happy about this news.
4

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 31/03/2008 02:38:17
be worried ............ very worried
5

Carolyn 1,

31/03/2008 02:57:47

Scullion, you've hit another low.
6

,

31/03/2008 02:58:27
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7

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 31/03/2008 03:05:53
# 6 so in China all the wars of 300+ years ago were about religion. I think not.

All wars are about one side wanting what the other side has.

8

Jim A,

31/03/2008 03:08:10
#2 Dopehead, "The GOD I believe in dude ...ain't short of cash.."

Your Mommy is not a God
9

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 03:28:55
#7
Read my post #6 again, this time with a bit more care and attention. I did not say what you assert in your first sentence.

If you want to make a case then set out your stall with some kind of exactitude, so that others might have a platform from which to agree or disagree with you. Now I have better things to do, like work.
10

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 31/03/2008 04:12:31
Where is James Donald now? He negated this on another thread...told me I was a "mere housewife", has insulted me with name calling...but I proved myself right. and he has shown himself wrong...YET AGAIN!!!


Mgr Formenti said that while the number of Catholics as a proportion of the world's population was fairly stable, the percentage of Muslims was growing because of higher birth rates....WHICH IS WHAT I SAID. There JD, is your answer to why Europe will be Muslim in about 50 years.
11

Rozz Fyffe,

Scotland 31/03/2008 04:57:11
The Catholic religion has been dying for years, the antichrist sees to that.

There is only one way to the Father.
12

Pilrig.,

Livingston 31/03/2008 06:19:51
zzzzzzzzzzzz
13

,

31/03/2008 06:54:07
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14

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/03/2008 08:02:52
"For the first time in history we are no longer at the top: the Muslims have overtaken us."

An odd statement from the Vatican. It seems they see themselves as a not part of the Christian religion but as a separate entity. And depending on how you count, I suspect Buddhists have topped the charts at some stages in history.
15

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/03/2008 08:15:19
#10 Lynne

'Where is James Donald now? He negated this on another thread...told me I was a "mere housewife",'

He also called you a hatemonger. When you make ridiculous statements that Europe will be Muslim in 50 years, and imply that we should do something about it, he has a point.
16

Boy Wonder,

31/03/2008 08:25:55
According to the figures above, it appears that there's more of us non-believers of (whatever) religion than there are believers.

Doesn't that put us in the majority?
17

paulr,

edinburgh 31/03/2008 08:28:51
Manufactured religions to follow mythical gods.....
carry on, just so long as you dont try to foist your garbage onto me.
18

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 08:43:52
#10 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - What you said on another thread that Europe was being taken over by "Islamofascists" now. Not quite the same thing, but then you are a mere housewife after all and no stranger to name calling yourself.
Why would you have a problem with this article? It is only Islamic extremists you have a problem with, isn't it? Is it?
19

Stu_R_20,

31/03/2008 08:49:47
Check out this link, found it a few nights ago:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=y9dXGJ2rYdA
Echoing post 4, "be worried, very worried".....
20

sam the god,

31/03/2008 09:17:17
Well all that happened is exchanging one lot of cranks for an other
21

eric,

31/03/2008 09:17:48
If there was a jesus he died for his own sins not mine.
22

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/03/2008 09:17:58
#16 Boy Wonder

"Doesn't that put us in the majority?"

Yay. Normal at last.

But it won't do us any good unless we organise. What we need is something we can unite behind. How about a supernatural figurehead or some kind of iconic symbol?

Sorry. I'll just get my coat.
23

Puzzler,

Edinburgh 31/03/2008 09:55:42
The first paragraph of the article defines the problem. Christians are defined by denomination and RCs are treated as a seperate religion in their own right (they aren't), Muslims meanhwile are reduced to an amorphous lumpen mass. All the differneces between sunni, shia, etc are disregarded and all are simply defined as muslim. This is simplistic nonsense.

As for Bashir Mann - where does this character get his information? Where are his facts and, come to that, who on earth is he to make such assertions. The man is a time serving greybeard who woes his position as a "community leader" to tradition in teh asian community in Glasgow. Hec has some hair raisingly retro views on a variety of issues from gay rights to the position of women and is by no means an independently minded observer. In any situation where traditional Islam comes into conflict with the modern world Basher can be relied upon to excuse and explain from a pack of wolf like yobs murdering a 15 year old to a father illegally removing his daughter from the jurisdiction of the Scottish courts because he doesn't like a custody decision, Basher is on hand to support Islam right or wrong.

The man has built a career upon playing the tame Muslim for the Glasgow Labour establishment. His views are reactionary, prejudiced and coloured by his own deeply conservative religious beliefs. His views here are wish fulfillment. Nothing more

24

donald,

glasgow 31/03/2008 10:23:28
So we need a new fitba team for the Old Firm?
25

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 31/03/2008 11:00:44
#11 Rozz........"there is only one way to the father" I have news for you, you aint going to the father.Bigots are not allowed in the house of the father.
26

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 31/03/2008 11:07:58
#19 Stu_R_20

I watched the video. Very interesting. But I guess we got a different message.

Although the video was entitled "Appeasing Islam", it seemed to be about not pandering to irrational and intolerant beliefs. I couldn't agree more. It would be nice if our political leaders could make a statement along those lines.

But how could a Prime Minister voice the opinion that Islam is wrong because it demeans women without also stating that forbidding contraception causes misery and suffering? Or perhaps we should just support the Church of England and Church of Scotland. After they all, they don't believe in much these days. The only thing they insult is our intelligence.

You say you are echoing post #4. Yet the same poster states "there is only one way to the Father". What exactly is it we should be worried about?

27

,

31/03/2008 11:26:21
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28

albanman,

Where I am 31/03/2008 11:28:04
No.26: Ouch! Rather cruel aren't you? (though I admit to smirking). As you've probably realised, this Rozz Fyffe is the rather unimaginative reincarnation of Ross Fyffe who was banned by the Scotsman sue to his frequent vitriolic personal comments. Yes, I agree that he appears to be a bigot.

I once heard a homily (sermon) in which the Catholic priest uttered the following words: "What will we do if we reach the gates of heaven and find that God's appearance is a combination of all those people we are prejudiced against against?" It gave me pause for much thought. I would like to believe that even the hearts of bigots will soften before the face of God. Wishful thinking, maybe...but....ya never know :)
29

Stu_R_20,

31/03/2008 11:53:02
#27
Sorry, I musn't have made that particuarly clear, that was representing my opinion in the context if Islam ever became the dominant religion in the UK.
Exactly, I don't think one can however, if we were to follow a secular root then no such comparison would be neccesary (which is what I advocate).
Well, we've had our Dark Ages as a result of religion so I couldn't agree more with your statement "insulting our intelect" and that religion in terms of it's ideals are equivalent although masqueraded under diffrent allgories.....
But on the whole I thought the chap made some insightful comments and thankfully was in the guise of a smart man rather than the stereotypical skin-headed thug.
30

,

31/03/2008 12:14:07
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31

,

31/03/2008 12:22:16
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32

Osama Bin Liner,

edinburgh 31/03/2008 12:35:30
Warning. #32 believes God speaks to him. Best give him a wide berth.
33

McGinty,

31/03/2008 12:35:35
Britain's religious history is I believe, in short, a mish mash of paganism, various forms of Christianity and a variety of post-enlightement secular ideologies with, more recently, bits and pieces of other world religions. Why would anyone seek, in these uncertain times to upset a delicate and difficult balance by introducing and promoting Islam largescale? If we look at several Islamic countries and the chaos in public life in these places, can one perhaps humbly suggest that things are perhaps marginally better here and should remain thus. I would not however sympathise with any form of hard secularism. This I believe goes against freedom of religion and freedom of speech, or have we not learned the lessons of the 20th Century?
34

Guga II,

Rockall 31/03/2008 12:40:10
There's not much hope for the human race when so many of them believe in fairy stories.
35

zeno,

www.thinkhumanism.com 31/03/2008 12:45:33
Frightening.
36

,

31/03/2008 12:47:48
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37

Calum Crubag,

31/03/2008 12:50:37
Aren't we just swapping one load of headbangers for another? Both religions have a lot of blood on their hands and as we've seen recently, the Catholics are trying to influence our laws. If Cardinal O Brien had his way, there'd be scientists in jail (apart from the ones who designed his 'god-friendly' pacemaker) and homosexuals being executed. Next stop, witchhunts and bans of pre-marital sex - priests excluded.
38

hertscot,

31/03/2008 12:51:38
One lot of myth peddlars have more believers than the other lot of myth peddlars.
Doesn't say much for the human race, that so many people need to believe in fairy stories and convoluted dogma to make their lives worthwhile.

Sad
39

Boy Wonder,

31/03/2008 13:03:10
#23, Selgovae. Are you proposing we deify your coat? Isn't there a Mac Almighty already??
40

,

31/03/2008 13:04:22
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41

Luke Skywalker,

Still on Earth 31/03/2008 13:14:32
Atheists! We need to organise.
42

Sedov,

Scotland. 31/03/2008 13:22:37
#42 Luke. Atheists ( like myself) have nothing to fear from Islam or any other religion. Try reading 'Marxism and the Politics of Religion' by Jack Conrad. It gives an insight on how much of religion is akin to socialism. The problem is that like Christianity the Islam fundementalist are distorting Islams best values and good practices into a form to suit their own needs and power base. Islam has to be won back by the decent masses whose lives are based on ot.
43

Mcsnagpile,

31/03/2008 13:30:39
Islam has become number on –the world is running out of foreskins.

If at first ye don’t succeed
pull yer foreskin owr yer heed.

—Aye we hiv a secret weapon.
44

,

31/03/2008 13:55:10
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45

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 14:02:31
Number 43 ... Sedov ... your views seem pretty misguided and naive.

Find out the truth about Islam and Sharia Law.

The only "decent" Muslims are those who give it up
... like that brave woman
... Ayaan Hirsi Ali (the one who got a death sentence / fatwa imposed on her for her outspoken opinions)
46

,

31/03/2008 14:08:05
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47

,

31/03/2008 14:16:46
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48

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 14:24:06
The only "decent" Muslims are those who oppose Islam

... this rules Bashir Maan out right away I suppose.
49

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 14:28:58
"If god did not exist it would be neccessary to invent him"

Voltaire
50

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 14:34:56
Number 50 ... Horrible Cankers ...

Surely what the world needs
... is more people to give up this religious nonsense and stop believing in an entity that does not exist.
51

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

31/03/2008 14:47:18
51....I am not religious, if people wish to believe in a deity then that is their problem. However the influence that religion has on cultures and people's lives in general is unacceptable. It is forced upon society and communities in a subtle way that appears to be wholly acceptable.....via children...in schools...churches, mosques whatever...horrible crimes are committed to childen via these same cultures as part of their religious culture and indoctrination...ie male circumcision and female genital mutilation...wee kiddies are brought up to believe in hell and a devil that will be waiting for them if they are bad...how sick is that...but if they go confess their sins they will be absolved...again how sick is that....

All religions...all over the world....force children to participate...they have no choice they have no voice...they have...to do what they are told....and believe the guff that they are fed....how sick is that?

If you want to believe sure....but leave the indoctrination out...let children grow up godless and decide when they are adults if they wish to believe in adult fairy stories....
52

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 31/03/2008 14:59:34
We are all JOck Tamson's bairns as far I am concerned and as long as they work, pay ALL their taxes and don't live off our benefits in our country there can be as many as you like.

If there's that many and they don't want to be one of the above then good luck to them as long as they don't come to Scotland
53

Lock,

31/03/2008 15:38:19
"For the first time in history we are no longer at the top: the Muslims have overtaken us."

Not big on history, are we?

54

,

31/03/2008 16:05:36
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55

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 16:40:44
number 55 ... Blackbeard...
Please do not include me as one of your 'head in the sand' atheists.

I do not believe in God
... bet I am perfectly aware of how dangerous
... this twisted violent religion Islam is.

Have you not read what I said about Ms. Hirsi Ali above??

Why does this so-called newspaper not take the initiative and re-print the Danish cartoons about Islam.

Answer because the Islamists and the P.C. coilition in Britain will not allow it.

Britain is sleep-walking into Sharia Law.

The government and its elected official are too frightened to actually do anything to oppose this.
56

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 16:47:28
I suggest people find out the truth about Islam instead of listening to apologists like Bashir Maan

... and any other mouth-piece for Islamofascism.



There should be a halt on mosque building.
No new madrassas.
End courses in "Islamic Studies."
Stop all this creeping Islamification now !!!!
57

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 17:02:00
Well now, Rozz Fyffe, I wonder who had my post removed #6 removed ...? Pathetic when you can't back up your argument with a grain of common sense, not to mention factual knowledge.
58

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 17:15:14
Why do we not campaign for the Scotsman to reprint the Danish cartoons !!!!
59

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 17:20:25
Come on
... CLAIRE GARDNER
and all the other journos who work for this rag.

Reprint the Danish cartoons

... show us you actually value our democratic traditions and freedom of speech.
60

,

31/03/2008 17:29:42
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61

Carolyn 1,

31/03/2008 17:31:31
Not just the comment at #6
why were ALL the comments removed from the "Israel to cut West Bank Road blocks"...??

Either the Scotsman doesn't believe in free speech
or the Palestinian apologists who comment there reached an unacceptable level of hatred, antisemitism, etc.. ??

Or should I consider that the advertising revenue of newspapers everywhere is at a low, and like any business they need income?
1. the verbal nastiness is affecting their national readership and therefore affecting their income??
2. affects the image of Scotland at a time when people are planning their vacations??
3. or did the trolls deleted so many comments the story was unreadable?
62

Carolyn 1,

31/03/2008 17:40:55
Of the Catholics many go to church only on religious holidays and are still Catholics; to that point, I wonder what percentage of the Islamic followers are allowed to 'observe' only on holidays?
63

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 17:41:44
number 63 ...
Carolyn 1 ...

No I think you are right ... the Scotsman is afraid of free speech.

They frequently delete comments and eventually purge a person from their system ... that is why so many re-join these strands with a new nickname.

However the Scotsman should take a stand.
It should defend our hard won freedoms.

But like the government it is too afraid.

Publish the Danish cartoons !!!!!!!!!!!
64

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 17:47:48
Carolyn ...

... it is more poignant to look at the way Islam treats those who are born to it then renounce it / give it up.


They are systematically persecuted.

In some Muslim countries they are tortured or sentenced to death.

Islam is completely intolerent and does not allow criticism or any form of dissent.

Ever heard Tommy Sheridan's lawyer
... a.k.a. 'Islamic Rage Boy'
Aamer Anwar
... or any of these loudmouths speak out against Islam??


Answer --->>>
... nope.

65

Dáithí,

San Jose 31/03/2008 18:00:19
#18 - James Donald

>"Not quite the same thing, but then you are a mere housewife after all and no stranger to name calling yourself..."

And you are a mere lifelong company clerk James, don't go looking down at anyone.
66

Dáithí,

San Jose 31/03/2008 18:08:26
I don't see where this article matters a whit.

Followers of Islam were #2, now they are #1? What, does this mean that they are now going to launch some sort of 'power play' or something?

If a country establishes and enforces rules of religious freedom then no one, religious or not, has the power to enforce their beliefs on others.

If they turn to violent extremism (like protesting people's freedom of speech by posting satire of Muhammed) then that needs to be dealt with on its own.

When they form a majority in a country and change the constitution to require following their religion, then you've got a problem.

Will Britain ever be to that stage - or is it a day that is fast approaching?
67

subrosa,

31/03/2008 18:29:26
# 55 and # 57

That's exactly what's happening and we're allowing it to continue because we're 'tolerant'. If that's toleration then I'm certainly not tolerant. I don't want muslims in my country. Oh yes there are many I'm sure who are law abiding and kind people but when the crunch comes, they will do as they are told by the Imams.

Where have these law abiding and peaceful muslims been when the fanatics stand in our streets calling for us, as infidels, to be killed? Nowhere. The occasional comment days later saying' They are different to us, we're the peace loving muslims'. Aye heard it over and over.

Just look at the birth figures for the past year; don't they concern anyone? They were publicised with little comment. Why are we so bothered about being called racist? I want to protect my own culture and that's why I speak out.

If others don't like living in a Christian country then they should go back to where they feel more comfortable. Just because some of us don't believe in Christianity then it doesn't mean we are dangerous, nasty people. Most people have some form of spiritual belief which doesn't include killing others who don't hold a similar belief.

Rant over.
68

Shamus,

Glasgow 31/03/2008 18:49:48
#69. You should not bother about being called a racist. It is used by those that cannot see reality in front of their nose. The fact is that Islam is a vicious fascist dictatorship. It was invented for that purpose.
69

Carolyn 1,

31/03/2008 18:55:40
#70
which is why a Muslim man is allowed/encouraged to have many wives... to go forth and multiply...

not so of Catholics, at least not to be a Catholic in good standing!
70

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 31/03/2008 18:55:43
8
Jim A

Dude I don't know why my post (in response to ur name calling) was removed. Do U know Dude ?.

Anyway . If name calling is the best U can do , that's tough on U dude.

Name calling is a sad and crude substitute for debate or argument.

Happy Haggis day Dude.

GC
71

subrosa,

31/03/2008 19:00:18
# 71 Shamus, it doesn't bother me one bit. I'm too old and too long in the tooth now. But I do see the changes, for the worse, in my country's culture. It's a very gradual change here right enough. Many places in England have had it far quicker. Still the English are similar to use and don't really want to see what's in front of their noses. The working class (for want of a better expression) are beginning to speak out there though because they also detest the BNP (quite rightly in my opinion).
72

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 19:00:22
#69 subrosa

Agree entirely. It's a worrying scenario, especially when vote-catching politicians keep beating people's heads about Scotland and its "tolerance", "diversity" and "multiculturalism" and other trap-a-vote buzzwords. This is one area in which the otherwise clever Salmond worries me. He is way too cosy with the Muslim crowd, who as any sane onlooker can see, are exploiting him and his party for personal gain. If he himself cannot see that, then people of Scotland beware.

If the Vatican's claims, apropos the headline, are anywhere close, and Muslims have the current bragging rights, then I urge Scotland's Catholics to even up the score and reclaim the sh@gging rights. You know it makes sense.



73

subrosa,

31/03/2008 19:00:56
use should read 'us'. sorry.
74

subrosa,

31/03/2008 19:04:03
# 75

I'm hoping Alex Salmond will cool his relationship with the muslims and I'm biding my time. If nothing changes soon then I for one will be down there to the parliament telling him, in no uncertain terms, exactly how I feel. Perhaps a few would like to come with me.
75

Paloma negra,

31/03/2008 20:07:08
JayDeeTee,31/03/2008 18:32:34

It should be obvious that because Muslim women are subjugated ... and are automatically treated as inferiors
... they are simply regarded as "son-factories"
That's why in Islamic countries women are married off and impregnated early.



Stefania Alvarez,31/03/2008 17:41:44
Yes ... more newspapers should reprint the Danish cartoons.


Shamus,Glasgow 31/03/2008 18:49:48
Yea that is why Islam should be challenged at every stage ... it is a rigid, autocratic, barbaric religion.


Fanling,Hong Kong 31/03/2008 19:00:22
Yes you are right ... Alex Salmond is too cosy with Islam ... he is being used and manipulated.





76

Paloma negra,

31/03/2008 20:10:53
subrosa,31/03/2008 19:04:03

Well said ...!!!
Salmond needs to be told straight that Scotland will not submissively lie down (as large swathes of England are) and put up with this backward intolerant barbaric religion.
More people need to make it clear to elected officials that we are sick of the creeping Sharia and Islamification of our country.
77

Paloma negra,

31/03/2008 20:27:58
Black Beard,31/03/2008 16:05:36

You are quite pessimistic.

We have to speak out against this fascist religion at every opportunity.
Expose the myths and lies it and its followers propagate.

This involves exposing the "real" Islam

...rather than the santised version that it's apologists and appeasers lie to us about.


Stefania Alvarez is wise to suggest that we familiarise ourselves with the case of Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

She is a Somali woman who got elected to the Dutch Tweede Kamer (parliament) as an M.P.
... then got a death threat / fatwa imposed on her for exposing the lies told by Islam.

Look at the situation with the other Dutch parliamentarian now (Gert Wilders).
78

Paloma negra,

31/03/2008 20:30:07
Ayaan Hirsi Ali now lives in fear of her life and is protected by the Dutch Secret Service for speaking out against Islam.

Why are there no British M.P.s with the courage and determination shown by Ms. Hirsi Ali ????????
79

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 31/03/2008 20:46:09
Hello All,

1. All you Faith/God haters are brothers in the spirit with the Jihadists: anyone of Faith, who does NOT believe as do you, you hate, berate, and would harm, one way or another; the Jihadists through murder, you Haters through oppressive laws targeting people of Faith.

2. I would also point out that unlike Islam, neither the RCC, the Greek/Russian Orthodox, nor the Protestant Churches, are calling for armed revolution to FORCE Muslims to convert to Christianity. Islam on the other hand, does PRECISELY that- just read the Noble Quran or the Hadith for confirmation.

3. Please note that there are 17 million Jews trying to keep themselves alive, amidst the 'ocean' of 1.3 BILLION Muslims. Throughout the Middle East alone, there are some 220 MILLION Muslims decidedly attempting to exterminate 11 Million Jews.

None of you pro-Palestinian advocates ever address this FACT. I wonder why, perhaps the concept of honesty, fairness, clarity, and integrity, are NOT part and parcel of your characters?

Kinda like the current debates concerning the above article: you stellar lot continue touting how much people of Faith always 'hate' everyone who isn't a person of Faith (though you never seem to present any contextual and verifiable evidence, you just keep accusing), and then rage to your hearts' content, in hating people of Faith.

How very 'tolerant' and 'open minded' of you.

The bottom line is that I can present contextually and doctrinally, how Islam DOES call for ALL non-Muslims to convert to Islam, OR they will be executed for their refusals. This command comes from the Prophet Mohammad and can be read in the pages of the Noble Quran and the Hadith.

On the other hand, you CANNOT find such a command from Jehovah/Jahweh in the Old Testament, nor from Christ or His Apostles in the New Testament.

Further, you cannot point to any bona fide, legitimate Christian leader of either Catholic or Protestant sect, which has called for the execution/murde
80

mike - across the pond,

gutter journalism? 31/03/2008 20:53:29
they are comparing apples and oranges....

Roman Catholicism is a single SECT of christianity....

ISLAM is the entire religion made up of a wide variety of sects...

the artilce points out that the count of islam is about 60% of that of christianity...

bug DANG fellas get your headline straight....
81

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 20:53:44
#67 Dáithí,San Jose - Who asked you gobby? Don't be a tube all your life; take the night off.
82

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 21:02:32
#79

The trouble is, elected officials - once safely elected - pay little attention to the indigenous lot. "Minorities" are to be sucked up to because in time they have the potential to become majorities.

Politicians are fly. That's why they are politicians. They want to keep their well-remunerated posts and the accompanying influence. It's time they were made totally accountable to those who put them there in the first place. That could start off with taking a harder line with the constantly hard-done-by Muslim lobby. Irrespective of the fact that some of them might have been born in Scotland or elsewhere in the British Isles, they have no divine right to special privileges from the political set. I am Scots born of many generations but I don't imagine I have any right to special attention because of it. I only want to see fairness, and I despise toadying politicians who pose in curry houses, or wherever, in an attempt to cement relations with potential voters whose alien religion-driven culture is a real threat to ours. Are politicians (or so-called blinkered "woolly liberals") really that stupid? (Rhetorical question.)

Western Europe is on the cusp of cultural dilution, if not altogether suffocation, by the worst of all religious nightmare groupings. I have witnessed this scenario first-hand in years past, and recently, in England, France, Germany and The Netherlands.

Personally I don't give a monkey's if I get labelled "racist" over this perfectly valid observation, because those of my fellow Scots who acquiesce to being culturally submerged by a truly alien subculture that will never fit in with the general populace, seriously need to examine their collective conscience. How much is enough? When does late become too late?







83

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 31/03/2008 21:08:26
anti-Faith Haters CONT.

Further, you cannot point to any bona fide, legitimate Christian leader of either Catholic or Protestant sect, which has called for the execution/murder of those opposing Catholicism or Protestantism, nor for calls to murder those who won't/don't convert to either sect of Christianity.

Lastly, I would point out that when a former Christian leaves the Faith, and converts to Buddhism, Sikhism, Islam, another religion, or becomes an Atheist/Agnostic, none of the Christian Sect leaders or adherents, call for such people to be executed for 'betraying' Christianity.

The former Christian's family does NOT go out and murder that person, the local pastor/priest does NOT call on all 'good and faithful' Christians go out and hunt that person down and murder them; no Christian versions of a 'fatwa' are issued for their murders.

You will find NO Christian 'fatwas' or sermons, from bona fide and legitimate Christians calling for the murders of the MANY writers who publish anti-Christian/anti-Jewish books. One may even look at provocative Christian leaders such as the late Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to find that not even they call for the physical harm or murders of such authors as Christopher Hitchens (who well and truly is a purveyor of hate, just like that hate-filled Loon in Kansas, who calls himself a Christian, but defies the doctrines of the very Lord he claims as his own).

So when any HONEST person compares Christianity/Judaism vs Islam, Islam comes up VERY SHORT on every comparative.

I study Islam and have so done for nearly 7 years; have any of you? I can back my statements up by direct citations from both the Noble Quran and the Hadith, as well as copious citations from the various bona fide and legitimate Islamic leaders across the globe.

How about you start supplying some verifiable evidence?
No? Not surprising, all you'd rather do is to continue to hate, to spew the invective which makes your lives tolerable. You ra
84

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 31/03/2008 21:11:46
anti-Faith Haters CONT.

How about you start supplying some verifiable evidence?

No? Not surprising, all you'd rather do is to continue to hate, to spew the invective which makes your lives tolerable. You rail against God and His Followers, because you inherently understand that the way you live your lives is in direct contradiction to the doctrines of God. You cannot just let people of Faith be, because the doctrines in which we believe fly in the face of how you live your lives and want to live your lives.

You cannot stand that fact and so, you fill your hearts and your mouths with hatred; which is why I compared you to the Jihadists-you have a great deal in common.

Christianity and Judaism are based in love, tolerance, and forgiveness and those who honestly and openly follow each Faith try to live up to those tenets.

Nowhere in the Old Testament will you find a single command from God, or any prophet of God, to force non-Jews to become Jews. Plenty of commands to take land and oust the previous owners, but not a single command to force those peoples to become Jews. Mind you, you can't find a single command to the Jews to conquer the entire world either.

The same cannot be said of Islam.

Cheers from the Rockies
85

Pilrig.,

Livingston 31/03/2008 21:12:05
82 & 86 - Jesus wants you for a sunbeam.
86

Pilrig.,

Livingston 31/03/2008 21:17:09
58 - mair control freakery (which in essence is what religion is mainly aboot)
87

Pilrig.,

Livingston 31/03/2008 21:22:24
69 similar sentiments were opined in this country during the 1920s and 30s. Except it was the Irish Catholic immigrants who were the target.
Religion dontcha luvvit ? !

Erin-go-Bragh !
88

walter,

31/03/2008 21:27:40
#82
On the other hand, you CANNOT find such a command from Jehovah/Jahweh in the Old Testament, nor from Christ or His Apostles in the New Testament.

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
89

Dáithí,

San Jose 31/03/2008 21:29:20
#84 - JD

>"Who asked you...?

I don't have to be asked to point out that your usual, lame criticism of others is weak considering that you're in no position to look down on anyone.

Housewives have the same right to an opinion that you do, numpty. If you can't live with that, go back to your pub pals and pontificate to them.

I'm guessing that they already told you to go home - that's why you're here, bothering the adults.
90

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 21:36:33
#88 Pilrig
LOL!

& #89
In a nutshell.
91

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 31/03/2008 21:38:27
#38 Calum........ Every thread you appear on ,you treat us to lots and lots of anti Catholic crap.Get real and grow up! Scotland's 1 million Catholics are not going to go away. In fact we dont want them to go away.They are part of the Scottish nation, whether you like it or not.We are really fed up with your type here in Scotland.You and your ilk have nothing to offer our nation ,except of course lots and lots of anti Catholic poisonous bile. This poison as you well know has been Scotland's shame for many years now. So! to all you sectarian anti Catholic Scottish bigots,the vast majority of the Scottish people have this to say to you. Get out of our country and take your hate with you.
92

American,

31/03/2008 21:45:05
"Islam overtakes Catholicism"--No wonder why the world is falling apart.
93

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 31/03/2008 21:45:43
#69 Subrosa.... You tried that with Scotland's Catholics. It did'nt work,they are here in ever increasing numbers and here to stay.So I think your day has come and gone and that Scotland is going to be a multi-culture and multi-faith country,and to hell with you and your hate filled friends.
94

BK,

Cyberspace 31/03/2008 21:53:34
It seems a strange comparison, comparing one branch of Christianity to a collection of warring Muslim sects - you have Sunni, Shiite and Ahmadiyah Muslims who all seem to hate each other more than they do Christians, so Islam is very far from one religion.
95

American,

31/03/2008 21:54:45
#69-subrosa-I dont want them here either!
96

Fanling,

Hong Kong 31/03/2008 22:00:56
#BK,Cyberspace

Don't forget the potentially most dangerous dogs of all: the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia and other dark pockets of the uncivilised world.
97

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 22:06:56
Is it not amazing how this newspaper ... just like our elected politicians will not speak out against this twisted barbaric religion.

Islam has a fear of women ... just check all the Video clips on the Internet of Muslim clerics explaining "how to beat your wife".
98

Frank Brady,

31/03/2008 22:13:35
Apart from the usual ba'heids who depressingly always seem to rear their bigoted, anti-Catholic heads (it has been salutary recently to read some of the threads in the Herald, and the filthy language by some of the anti-Catholic, God-haters there)anytime anything about religion crops up, some of the posters here make some valid points.

Europe, in its modernist, gadarene rush to de-Christianise itself through the extensive practice of abortion, homosexuality and (soon) euthanasia, is dying because secular Europeans are not replacing themselves(government bribery attempts, notwithstanding). Not deigning to do the so-called "dirty jobs," the whites in countries like France, Germany and the U.K. have imported masses of Muslims, who, not deferring to European (translation--Godless) values continue to have large families. As Lynne(?) has said as they massively outbreed the white natives it is only a matter of time before they will achieve majority status, with all that that implies as to concepts like Sharia law, arranged marriage, "keep the women veiled in the kitchen," etc.

Well, civilisations do rise and fall (see the Greek and Roman, for example)so we should not be surprised that the half-a-millenium long domination of the world by the Western nation-state (based on its foundation of Catholicism) is coming to an end. That end may be postponed only if the Reconquista is successful in the U.S. and Latinos do not allow themselves to be corrupted by so-called modern Western values.
99

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 22:20:45
Islam is a violent, seventh century political ideology / religion which arose in the desert.

It's main aim is to take over the world ...!!!

... rob us of our freedom of speech
... and freedom of expression;

... subjugate / beat-up / & rape women;
... brainwash children;
... murder /pursecute Jews and gays whilst dragging us all back a thousand years.

Do we really want to allow Islam to turn the clock back on us???
Is it not simply amazing that all our politicians can do is make excuses or be apologists for it !!!
Politicians (Alex Salmond included)
... won't oppose it
... for fear of causing offence.


How pathetic !!!

It is time we woke up
... and stopped sleep-walking into Sharia Law !!!!!
100

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 22:25:30
Why do the politicians take this spineless position ???

In this world, at this moment, avoidance of offending muslims is more important than defending free speech
101

James Donald,

Newbridge 31/03/2008 22:39:42
#92 Dafty,San Jose - You have no idea in what context the phrase was posted origibally yet you see fit to wade in defending the odious Lynne with her trolling post #10. If you have nothing better to do, spend some time at the club for demented auld duffer ex-firemen (they might take you seriously but I doubt it).

"I'm guessing that they already told you to go home - that's why you're here, bothering the adults" - As usual, you guess wrong. Surely you don't include yourself as a adult?
102

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 23:02:36
Probably one of the worst practices performed in Muslim countries
... is Female Genital Mutilation (F.G.M.)

The practice causes the complete disappearance of sexual pleasure for the affected women.

It normally is done when girls are very young (and small enough to be held down during this extremely painful procedure.

Female genital mutilation
... involves extensive tissue removal of the external genitalia
... including all of the labia minora and the inside of the labia majora, leaving a raw open wound.

The labia majora are then held together using thorns or stitching and the girl’s legs are tied together for two — six weeks, to prevent her from moving and allow the healing of the two sides of the vulva. Nothing remains of the normal anatomy of the genitalia

After this all that is left is ... a pencil-size opening at the inferior portion of the vulva to allow urine and menstrual blood to pass through.

This type of F.G.M.

... is often carried out by an elderly female member of the village

... on girls between the ages of two and six, without anaesthetic and under unhygienic conditions.


This is another aspect of the reality of Islam
... which goes largely unreported.
103

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 23:09:35
So much for the so-called "religion of peace" ehh ...

A bunch of barbaric women haters !!!!
104

AVRENIM,

Montvalent 31/03/2008 23:09:47
only bigots will enter the kingdom of heaven
105

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 31/03/2008 23:21:31
Hello Walter,

Thank you for the citation. I now remember reading that and I stand corrected, as the OT/Old Covenant stands, regarding apostasy.
I still stand by my NT statement.

I would point out however, that Jews today, even Orthodox Jews, do NOT follow the Deut. citation.

Muslims on the other hand, DO follow the Quranic/Hadithic doctrines.

Cheers from the Rockies
106

Yane,

31/03/2008 23:25:47
I thought god was The Taxpayer. In Australia he is Hard Working Families.
107

Pinkie,

31/03/2008 23:37:43
Stefania >>> you ommitted to mention, in some areas, that the "scar" is opened for penetration and for birth -- and then sewn up again. In time, after opening and closure ..... no, I can not bear to describe it - but I have seen it. It is the women of this country that have to fight to prevent\stop Islamisation - for ourselves and future generations: the men (politicians) do nothing in their search for votes. Do you think our husbands, brothers, uncles, etc - would "man the barricades" --- or would they prefer we become as subjegated as the Islamic women?
108

Scotsman in Dublin,

31/03/2008 23:49:13
"For the first time in history we are no longer at the top: the Muslims have overtaken us."
Seems like a strange position for the Vatican to take, comparing itself to the entire Muslim faith. If you consider that Muslim divisions such as Shia and Sunni are at least as divisive as Protestants and Catholics then surely if you count all Muslims together you should count all Christians together.

Personally I feel a tang of concern (or perhaps fear) when I see major growth in any religion, not because I have anything against them but because when any religion gets a very large presence in a country they tend to want to get involved in running it and the problems and intolerance that arise from that can be seen in a lot of Muslim countries today, not that I think Christianity is any more tolerant, but in most 'Christian' countries the Church is not allowed to get away with that stuff anymore.
109

Stefania Alvarez,

31/03/2008 23:52:05
number 110 ... Pinkie

... yes you are right.
However we need to keep telling people of the reality of Islam
... and what Sharia Law really means.
This involves speaking out every day !!!

The liars who support and appease Islam
... pump out propaganda every day about this "religion of peace".

We have to oppose their lies every day !!!
110

Scotsman in Dublin,

01/04/2008 00:00:26
Stefania, do you hate all religions or just specifically Muslims?
111

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 01/04/2008 01:45:26
Hello Scotsman in Dublin,

Since when is describing the myriad and serious negatives of a any religion, any policy, any platform, any doctrine, any politics, any behaviour, 'hate'?

Islam IS, factually speaking, an intolerant religion, a religion based on hate and violence, and you can prove it for yourself, by opening up a Noble Quran or any volume of the Hadith.

Muslims, unlike Jews or Christians, are commanded to force non-Muslims to convert to Islam, and to MURDER THEM if they choose to NOT convert (mind you, if a Muslim should decide to make some money off the situation, Jews and Muslims can pay a 'special tax' for a period of time and 'convert later'. The problem of course is that this 'dispensation' is wholly up to the choice and discretion of the Muslim in charge).

Jews and Christians are considered sub-human within Islam, being called 'apes and pigs'.

Islam dictates that girls as young as 9 years old, can be married off to adult men. Last time I checked, isn't that called 'pedophilia' and is a crime?

Choice of conscience and choice of religion, freedom of speech? Not within Islam. If a Muslim EVER converts to another religion, the FAMILY of the convertee are REQUIRED to murder the 'apostate'. Walter pointed out earlier, that the Old Testament holds such a commandment, but Jews no longer enforce it. Muslims not only have such a command, Muslims STILL enforce it to this very day.

Write a book criticizing Islam, the Prophet Muhammad, or the local Imam? Fatwas from recognized clerics of mosques are issued for the MURDER of the 'offending' author, cartoonist, publishers, et al.

Since when is pointing out these FACTS been redefined to be 'hate'? Only by those people methinks, that want to STIFLE the debate, curtail the conversation, and oppress anyone critical of Islam.

Cheers from the Rockies
112

Scotsman in Dublin,

01/04/2008 02:19:34
#114 Neanderthal75,
I was actually asking Stefania a question and this seems to have prompted a bit of a rant from you! The reason I was asking is that Stefania (and now you) seem to be on a crusade against muslims. You have provided examples of the worst things that Muslims have been involved in, but fail to admit that all major religions have been involved in atrocities.

You say "Islam IS, factually speaking, an intolerant religion, a religion based on hate". What do you base this on? I can open up a bible and find many examples of intolerance if i choose to interprept it that way - after all the Klu-Klux-Klan use the bible to back them up and the catholic church used the Bible to back up its atrocities over many centuries. Anyone with any sense can see that none of the major religions are inherently evil.

Stefania says "Islam is a violent, seventh century political ideology / religion which arose in the desert" and "It's main aim is to take over the world ...!!!". I can imagine the Nazi's were saying similar things about the Jews in the 1930's.

I agree with you that we need to resist Sharia law being implemented in western countries, and we need to speak out against barbaric practices, but the way in which you and Stefania single out Muslims (as opposed who are evil and happen to be Muslims) is sinister. It is not specifically Islam that we need to resist but overt involvment of any religion in the affairs of the state. If we are honest we would admit that if the Roman Catholic church (or the protestant church if it was powerful enough) had the control that Muslim clerics have in the middle east we would be living under just as much tyranny, after all we've been there before in Europe, anyone old enough to remember the crusades, the inquisition, burning of witches, burning of protestants (and the revenge of protestants against catholics once the shoe was on the other foot), etc, etc...
113

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 01/04/2008 03:23:03
Dáithí,San Jose

It's nice to see JD digging the hole deeper, that he has made for himself. Like a 2 year old, he can't be proven wrong, without resorting to having a temper tantrum..and name calling.
All I have to do is sit back and watch..As I have no intentions of ever answering this 1st class jerk again..All the others are doing it for me... they seem to understand what I have been saying all along. Eventually, with the amount of children being born to these families, they and we will be outnumbered at the voting box.
This is not the legacy I want to leave my grandchildren. The immigration laws have to change. I don't know the answer for this problem, but something has to be done, even if we have to go back to the quota system.
114

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 01/04/2008 03:25:09
Scotsman in Dublin,

Firstly, thank you for your reply and for your clarification. I retract my inference, that you are attempting to stifle the debate. You are not: you simply do not understand Islam, the Noble Quran, the Hadith, nor how Muslims view their sacred books.

Firstly, allow me to point out that I've been studying the Noble Quran for 6 going on 7 years. I have learned a lot but need to learn much more, as the Noble Quran is a very complicated text and one needs to read things IN CONTEXT to understand what the texts actually mean (taking them at face value, in context, are the best format).

Secondly, Islam is NOT merely another religion: it is a religion which is intrinsically linked with politics; how to create a political state, using the religious paradigm as the overarching model for ALL political decision making, all paradigms for individual and collective rights, etc.

This is what you and so many other non-Muslims do NOT understand: Islam is NOT like Christianity at all, but more closely resembles ancient Judaism, which was also used the religious base to form any and all political models. Modern Israel on the other hand, has used the Western Secular model for its political foundation: a separation of Church and State.

Islam does NOT allow for the separation of Mosque and State: the State EXISTS because of the Mosque under Islam. You can learn this for yourself, if you would start studying the Noble Quran and the Hadith (Sayings, Actions, etc. of the Prophet Muhammad), as have I and many others, who hold the positions which I have annunciated on these boards.

Your examples of the KKK and the RCC are neither cogent nor appropriate: there are ZERO biblical doctrines which support either the KKK actions or the actions you cite the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) took in the past. I mean with no equivocation, that NONE of the KKK positions/actions can be contextually, doctrinally, supported.

Same goes for many actions/positions/doctrines
115

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 01/04/2008 03:26:18
Scotsman in Dublin CONT,

Same goes for many actions/positions/doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, they cannot be contextually/doctrinally supported.

The same cannot be said of Islam, contextually speaking, in that the Noble Quran and the Hadith, which are the Sunna (the sacred texts which present the totality of Islam), clearly and contextually teach that murdering non-Muslims is not only accepted, it is both commanded by Allah (through the Prophet Muhammad) and recommended by both Shia and Sunni clergy from the original Jihad to this very day.

This is NOT hate, this is contextually accurate and is NOT replicated within Christianity or Judaism. Do you understand this? The actions of Muslims in murdering non-Muslims is NOT an aberration/mis-interpretation/skewing of what is written in the Noble Quran/Hadith, such murders are VERBATIM enactments of what is written.

When Muslims murder people for such things as the Danish Cartoons, or Imams/Ayatollahs call for the murders of the publishers of such cartoons, authors of books, or just average citizens from the countries where such books, cartoons, or films, are made, again, such calls for murder are NOT aberrations of Islam/the Noble Quran/Hadith, they are VERBATIM enactments/fulfillments of what is contextually commanded within the pages of the Sunna (sacred texts).

This is what you and those people on your side of the debate either do not understand/refuse to understand: what the Crusaders did was contextually contradictory to biblical doctrines. What the RCC did/taught in many instances was in direct contradiction to what is written within the bible.

The same CANNOT be said of Islam. This is not my subjective opinion, nor is it hate, nor is it being anti-Islamic: my statements are factually accurate and can be checked by you or any other person honestly interested in finding out what Islam teaches and what 'good and faithful Muslims' believe.

Take a good, long look at the many polls of Muslims
116

Neanderthal75,

Rocky Mountains USA 01/04/2008 03:27:24
Scotsman in Dublin CONT,


Take a good, long look at the many polls of Muslims in the UK, Scotsman in Dublin: fully a quarter of young Muslims in Great Britain believe that homicide bombers, such as 7-7-05, are 'legitimate actions in defense of Islam', and they would 'actively support' such bombings.

Fully a third of Muslims in Great Britain either support the goals of homicide bombers, or support the bombings themselves.

48% of Muslims in Great Britain believe that Sharia Law should REPLACE the Secular Rule of Law; this means that in a country where freedom of speech, freedom of movement, freedom of dress, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and the separation of Church and State, nearly HALF of all Muslims in Great Britain want to do AWAY with the Secular Rule of Law and do AWAY with the separation of religion and state.

The reason for these numbers, in a land of overwhelming freedom, is based in the Noble Quran, the Hadith, and the numerous sermons in the many mosques across Great Britain: all of which are premised upon the Theocratic Paradigm found in Islam.

I hope that you will be able to take the time to investigate the sacred texts of Islam, so that you will be able to understand that my statements above are accurate and factually true.

Lastly, allow me to say tongue-in-cheek, that NO ONE is alive and 'old enough' to 'remember' the Inquisitions, Crusades, Witch Burnings, etc.

I would say that with the exception of the OT commitment to killing witches, neither the Inquisitions, the Crusades, nor the burning of Protestants/Catholics, can be found to be biblically supportable.

Allow me to point out that from a New Covenant/New Testament doctrinal position, not even the burning of witches could be supported.

The violence which Muslims commit on a daily basis, CAN BE and IS doctrinally supportable, from within the pages of the Noble Quran/Hadith.

Cheers from the Rockies
117

Dáithí,

San Jose 01/04/2008 03:51:37
#113 - Scotsman in Dublin

It's possible to be concerned about Muslims without hating them, but articles like this in 'The Scotsman' this evening that do NOT allow comment hardly make Islam seem to be a religion of compassion:

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Father-39killed-daughter--who.3932435.jp

I'm not for bashing Arabs or Muslims, but they sure don't do themselves any favors by living under an unforgiving, dictatorial religious code.
118

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/04/2008 08:26:08
#116 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - Dream on Granny - you have no intention of answering again because you were caught (yet again) posting rubbish.
Your post #10 = temper tantrum.
Your post #116 = name calling
So you can "resort to this but not others. Makes you something of a hypocrit but then i knew that already.
The story is not about immigration but about religion. If the Muslim population is rising then it will do so whether it is in Europe, Asia, Africa or Anerica. Are you proposing immigration controls based on religion or race?
Haven't you got some dusting to do?
119

Scotsman in Dublin,

01/04/2008 10:57:49
#117 Neanderthal75,
"you simply do not understand Islam". You are probably right, but a lot of the time I dont understand Christianity either, even after having been raised as one. However I doubt very much that you understand it either.

"Islam... is a religion which is intrinsically linked with politics" - so is Christianity, especially in America where i gather you are from, Christianity has a huge influence during elections. The RC Church have always been involved in Politics - they even have their own state! - and the Church of England have always enjoyed a constitutional place in the parliment of England and later the UK.

Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Justification for killing witches or anyone associated with the Supernatural

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman... they must be put to death" - Justification for Killing gays

Psalms 79:6: "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name." - Justification for the crusades.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-15: even as they have of the Jews. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men." - Justification for Christians to murder Jews.

I dont want to appear as though I am against Christianity, I am not, but my point here is that a bad Christian can draw hate from the Bible and A bad Muslim can draw hate from the Quran.

I dont know that there is much point in debating with you as you seem very intolerant and almost obsessed with proving that Islam is evil.
120

Scotsman in Dublin,

01/04/2008 10:58:13
#117 Neanderthal75,
"you simply do not understand Islam". You are probably right, but a lot of the time I dont understand Christianity either, even after having been raised as one. However I doubt very much that you understand it either.

"Islam... is a religion which is intrinsically linked with politics" - so is Christianity, especially in America where i gather you are from, Christianity has a huge influence during elections. The RC Church have always been involved in Politics - they even have their own state! - and the Church of England have always enjoyed a constitutional place in the parliment of England and later the UK.

Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." - Justification for killing witches or anyone associated with the Supernatural

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman... they must be put to death" - Justification for Killing gays

Psalms 79:6: "Pour out thy wrath upon the heathen that have not known thee, and upon the kingdoms that have not called upon thy name." - Justification for the crusades.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-15: even as they have of the Jews. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men." - Justification for Christians to murder Jews.

I dont want to appear as though I am against Christianity, I am not, but my point here is that a bad Christian can draw hate from the Bible and A bad Muslim can draw hate from the Quran.

I dont know that there is much point in debating with you as you seem very intolerant and almost obsessed with proving that Islam is evil.
121

Scotsman in Dublin,

01/04/2008 11:02:00
Oops, dont know what that went in twice.

Anyway,
#120 Dáithí, you are right articles like this should be published, but newspapers should avoid using sensationalism on the subject.
I think commenting should be allowed, but i think you will find that the reason it's not is that these articles tend to provoke extreme responses and the moderators probably dont have the time to monitor and remove unsuitable comments. (Cant believe I am actually defending the Scotsman newspaper! :)
122

Stefania Alvarez,

01/04/2008 11:28:36
number 113 ...Scotsman in Dublin

You are either trying to twist what I say or are being deliberately obtuse.
123

Stefania Alvarez,

01/04/2008 11:37:20
continued ...

Scotsman in Dublin ...
I do not know how long you have lived in Ireland ... or how recently you have lived in Britain ... or whether you have ever experienced life in a Muslim country.
I can speak from experience since I have lived / worked in other countries and witnessed things first-hand.

I would refer you to an article in today's Scotsman:

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Father-39killed-daughter--who.3932435.jp

This typifies the backward attitude of this religion.

If you also had any understanding of the reality of Islam you would recognise that it is quite different from other religions in it's specific ways of "commanding" it's followers.

Look at Iran; Saudi Arabia and other places.

You are perhaps quite sheltered living in Ireland since the percentage of Muslims in the population is extremely low.

However in other countries this is not the case ... you need to do more research into the reality of the situation.
124

Stefania Alvarez,

01/04/2008 11:43:35
continued ...

Scotsman in Dublin ...

Go to your local library in Dublin or a bookshop and get a copy of:

"The Caged Virgin"
by Ms. Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

In this book she explains her own intimate journey from hijab wearing Koran-basher
... to atheist / apostate

... and the consequences of this.

I am sure you will find this a fascinating and enlightening read.
125

Miller,

01/04/2008 16:37:27
122/123

What's all these silly out-of-date quotes of yours? For what purpose? It's 21 century. The Christians of today do no such things! Look to the present and not centuries old practice that has nothing to do with Christianity today.
126

,

01/04/2008 23:10:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
127

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 03/04/2008 00:31:16
JD..finished my dusting.., scaled out a room, did my volunteer shift at the hospital, and, did the invoices and orders for the day.. No not by religion or race...but by country.

My work is never done!!! You know us mere housewives...got a car pool to catch up with.

128

James Donald,

Newbridge 09/04/2008 22:28:42
#130 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - "finished my dusting...." - I hope you make a better job of this than you do posting here. The only legacy you should aim to leave your grandchildren is a tidy house.

 

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