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Meet Antony and Cleopatra (Burton and Taylor they certainly aren't)

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Published Date: 14 February 2007
ANTONY and Cleopatra - one of history's most romantic couples - were not the great beauties that Hollywood would have us believe, academics have revealed.
A study of a 2,000-year-old silver coin found the Egyptian queen, famously portrayed by a sultry Elizabeth Taylor in the 1963 film, had a shallow forehead, pointed chin, thin lips and sharp nose.

Its other side shows that her Roman lover, played in the movie by Richard Burton, Taylor's handsome husband at the time, had in reality bulging eyes, a hook nose and a thick neck.

History has depicted Cleopatra as a great beauty, befitting a woman who, as queen of Egypt, seduced Julius Caesar and then his rival, Mark Antony. But the coin, which goes on show today at Newcastle University for Valentine's Day after years lying in a bank, is much less flattering about both famous faces.

The size of a modern 5p piece, the 32BC artefact was in a collection belonging to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle upon Tyne, which is being researched in preparation for the new Great North Museum.

Clare Pickersgill, the university's assistant director of archaeological museums, said: "The popular image we have of Cleopatra is that of a beautiful queen who was adored by Roman politicians and generals. The relationship between Mark Antony and Cleopatra has long been romanticised by writers, artists and film-makers.

"Shakespeare wrote his tragedy Antony and Cleopatra in 1608, while the Orientalist artists of the 19th century and the modern Hollywood depictions, such as that of Taylor and Burton, have added to the idea that Cleopatra was a great beauty. Recent research would seem to disagree with this portrayal, however."

Lindsay Allason-Jones, the university's director of archaeological museums, said: "The image on the coin is far from being that of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.

"Roman writers tell us Cleopatra was intelligent and charismatic, and that she had a seductive voice, but, tellingly, they do not mention her beauty. The image of Cleopatra as a beautiful seductress is a more recent image."

The silver denarius coin would have been issued by the mint of Mark Antony. On one side is the head of Antony, bearing the caption "Antoni Armenia devicta", meaning "For Antony, Armenia having been vanquished".

Cleopatra appears on the reverse, with the inscription "Cleopatra Reginae regum filiorumque regum", meaning "For Cleopatra, queen of kings and of the children of kings", or possibly "queen of kings and of her children who are kings".

The coin itself is not particularly rare, but is very collectable. The collection has been owned by the city's Society of Antiquaries since the 1920s.

The university hopes more forgotten treasures will come to light before the Great North Museum opens in 2009.

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  • Last Updated: 13 February 2007 10:23 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Romans
 
1

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 00:35:03

She was obviously dynamite in the sack!

2

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 00:46:55

And at least they didn't spoil a pair!!!

3

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 01:07:43

JG

I noticed Scottweb called you "mate" on another board. It must be your style of writing!!:)

4

Sinnerman,

Another Planet 14/02/2007 04:18:56

She might not have been a looker, but she had a killer asp...

5

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 04:22:19

Comment@3 AJ, hi mate :)

6

Lanna,

14/02/2007 06:04:12

Well, apparently, it's not so much what ya have, as much as what ya do with it!!!

killer asp...good one!!

7

Guga,

Rockall 14/02/2007 06:52:47

#1 Plain women usually are.

8

Royster,

14/02/2007 08:50:31

#7. At last we agree on something.

9

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 09:04:52

Scottwebb,

Didn't mean to rude, it's just I only discovered the other week- JG is, indeed, a wifie!!:)

10

Scaramouche,

14/02/2007 09:09:32

I despair of finding an article I agree with 100%.

In actual fact, if you gathered up lots of ancient coins and laid them side by side in a comparison check, they'd all be very worn and time-eaten because of the handling and poor preservation and certain facets would be beyond recognition. Add to that, that the makers probably didn't use the best of materials (or artists) t make the casts of the original coins, plus who really knew what ANYONE looked like back then because of lack of photography .... and you can make any judgement you like!!!

Go to Holyroodhouse and look at all the portraits. Some of these kings and queens never had paintings done of them in their lifetimes. It was all guesswork based on how children often look like their parents. Artistic licence!!

And that's what you got with ancient coinage. It was not art, it was guesswork and the ability to do it small enough for coins.

In other words .... the article above is C R A P!!! For all we know, maybe Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra VII of Egypt were good-looking and the artists weren't good enough. Plus you have to account for styles of the period, where what things represented carried more weight.

And as for being good in bed ....... apart from the fact, both of them had huge armies, land and wealth behind them .... aristos were taught by professional prostitutes how to make love from an early age ....

What? Did no-one watch "Rome" and young Octavian's first bedding? It was standard practice!

11

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 09:24:44

#9 AJ
A WIFIE!!!!! You couldn't have gone for "voluptuous, young woman" (weel, maybe "young" is pushing it a bit!!)

12

eric,

14/02/2007 09:25:43

Could be worse eh!Could be Charles & camilla or Posh N becks

13

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 14/02/2007 09:33:49

Thank you. This saves my few coins of buying the roses for the wife. I was looking for an excuse. You do come up to the rescue at the right time.
Cleopatra in the movies looked good. That is Lisa. I do not know about the coins of those ages and I am very sceptical about the coins that are very old. I do not know if they exist or these are fabricated tales.
"Roman writers tell us Cleopatra was intelligent and charismatic, and that she had a seductive voice, but, tellingly, they do not mention her beauty. The image of Cleopatra as a beautiful seductress is a more recent image."

But the coin, which goes on show today at Newcastle University for Valentine's Day after years lying in a bank, is much less flattering about both famous faces.

14

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 09:39:26

#13 Firo
Don't be so tight! Buy your wife the roses - and some chocolates too as a punishment for even thinking about not treating her today!

15

Lanna,

14/02/2007 09:50:30

Agree JG...roses, chocolate, good wine, good time, throw in an ice cube, some syrup;....yeh, Cleo knew what she was doin!

good morning, AJ!! ;)

16

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/02/2007 10:01:01

Well, they can dig up as many old coins as they like but,................ Mark Anthony (fab name!) will always be Richard Burton for me. That voice, those looks ....... gorgeous man! Definitely the best export that Wales ever made. :)

Liz Taylor had nice eyes but I never like her hair when she had it scraped back in the 'Croydon facelift' look.

17

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 10:04:10

#16 Joanna
Maybe when she let her hair down at night she had jowls like Basset hound and eyes like Sharpei!

18

Lanna,

14/02/2007 10:14:41

#16 Joanna, agree with ya there!! About, Marc Antony that is....

JG, ooh that's awful!!! :)

19

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 11:23:48

Elizabeth Taylor was a looker right enough and stacked too!

I agree with Queen Canky, the coin looks like Julius Caesar - quintessential Roman nose etc! The coin might have been part of an early edition of Monopoly!

20

Scaramouche,

14/02/2007 11:33:00

#19. According to speculative theories, the pharaonic houses of early Egypt were almost certainly white. Or paler than the Hamitic black skins. Was there a strain of Northern blood in the gene-pool? The crown of Egypt passed through the female line (the Sun Princess), which is why Pharoahs symbolically married their sisters (referring back to the practice of Tanistry) and daughters. The wives they took for breeding purposes, were mostly foreign and it's their we must look for the white Egyptians.

The Black Pharoahs were of the later Dynasties. Mostly after the Ramessids of the Ninth.

Hope that helps.

21

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 12:12:54

HC,

How do you know all this stuff? One day you can nail the issue of the ultra thin super models, and noo, you're shedding light on the finer details of Egyptology!!!

Yer some wumin!!

22

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 12:14:04

You dinny jist look up wikipedia, do you?

23

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 12:41:41

Blood shot last time I clocked her!! She was still stacked though!! Is she still alive?

24

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 12:43:43

Favourite film - Who's afraid of Viginia Wolf?

You felt it was kind of set around Taylor and Burton's actual relationship!

25

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 13:25:53

#26 AJ
I think she is still alive - maybe only just, as she has had a difficult time, health wise, over the past few years. For my next door neighbour (he's in his seventies) Elizabeth Taylor is/was the epitome of beauty - I think he maybe had the odd lustful thought about her in his younger days!

26

Scaramouche,

14/02/2007 13:29:41

While not a totally incompetant general, Antony did not have the Caesarian genius for leadership, so Egypt became a colony of Rome after Antony and Cleopatra's defeat at Actium.

Like the Greeks before them, the Romans infiltrated the upper echelons of Egyptian society and joined in with the native religio-cults. Already a debased practice, the Romans got into mummification and had their portraits painted on wood, placed on the wrapped head. Romano-Egyptian mummies a're not the same as earlier ones of more ancient dynasties.

Nefertiti does look to have been a strong-willed, classical beauty if the bust (copy in the RSM) fornd at el-Amarna is anything to go by.

27

wayne bijlyeerheid,

14/02/2007 13:32:42

Quote>The coin itself is not particularly rare< end quote.
And neither, as follows logically, is the information that, the last Ptolymaic monarch, though she looked like the back of a bus, was no traffic stopper.
To be fair to the Scotsman, the BBC and the rest of the media are also treating it as a revelation.

28

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 13:51:56

JG,

Make sure you jam a chair against your door when you turn in of an evening!!

29

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 14:30:25

#31 AJ
Unfortunately I don't look like a young Liz Taylor! I think I would have nothing to worry about!! (Plus - he's a bit old for me and I doubt his wife would be pleased!!)

30

Sinnerman,

Another Planet 14/02/2007 14:32:41

#19 & #21. Cleopatra was a direct descendant of the Macedonian general Ptolomy, who established himself King of Egypt after the death of Alexander the Great (4th Century BC). So her ethnic background would be Greek not Nubian.

31

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/02/2007 14:42:28

I thought Liz Taylor looked absolutely beautiful in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof".......... she played opposite a young Paul Newman as well. Now his eyes were something else............ :) She did have some hunky leading men.

I quite liked the Carry on Cleo version with Sid James as Mark Antony and big eyed Amanda Barrie as Cleo.

Maybe the Mark Antony coin was based on Sid James .... because he was a funny guy but no oil painting.

32

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 14:51:06

Paul Newman, Steve McQueen and Christopher Lambert - they all had/have eyes that could melt the coldest heart!!

33

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 14:57:02

Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, Christopher Lambert - now they have/had eyes that could melt the coldest heart!!

Actually maybe Cleo as shown on the coin looks better with her teeth in!!!

34

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/02/2007 15:01:47

You're right JG ... she does look as if she's taken her teeth out!

She also reminds me of one of those toothless old crones that feature in films of the French Revolution .... sitting knitting and cackling away as the guillotine falls upon the 'feelthy aristos'!! :))

35

Lanna,

14/02/2007 15:17:56

Hi JG/Joanna, maybe the researchers got it all wrong, and that's not really Cleo at all...what woman would want hersel out there lookin like she had no teeth?

36

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 15:25:13

Well i have a face like a well skelped @rse and i have eyes like dogs n@ds.....but chicks tell me i have a very sexy voice :)

37

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 16:38:45
38

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 16:39:28

Ignore that last comment and link, wrong thread :)

39

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 18:35:49

It was his eyes HC, the French accent, the muscles and the legs wi' the kilt on -I've lost count of the number of times I've watched that film!

40

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 19:07:28

Oh yes!! I certainly wouldn't kick him oot the bed fir fartin' anyway!! I really enjoy this Six Nations malarky tae - I like the bit when they scan the line-up before the game starts!

I was at Tesco in Dunfermline today - a boay in blue overalls passed on the £6 roses and bought a lovely £20 bouquet for his wife/girlfriend. I thought at the time mmmm.......I wonder?????? I had to give Firozali a row today too - Mrs. F. seemed to be getting naff all for Valentine's Day. I hope he saw the error of his ways too!!!!

41

JG,

14/02/2007 20:13:40

D'ye no' like the rugby - even for the thighs? Things began to look up when they started wearing the skin tight outfits tae!!!

I think Antony might have been better to get Cleo tae stick her wallies in before the engraver arrived though. It's a bit late after the image has been set in metal.

42

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 21:23:50

A mate of mine just sent me a text...it says.........Got my wife a bag for Valentines day..........the Hoover works a treat now :)

43

heather fae the hills,

14/02/2007 21:44:28

Bet she thought it sucked.

44

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 21:50:36

:)

45

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 22:01:38

#49 Scottwebb
I take it your mate likes having a bed all to himself?

46

Joanna,

Cambs, England 14/02/2007 22:07:10

I bet Mark Antony never gave Cleo a vacuum cleaner on Valentine's Day............ mind you, wasn't she delivered to Caesar in a rolled up carpet?

Oh well, a vacuum might have come in handy in that case, just to keep the shag pile upright :))

47

JG,

Fife 14/02/2007 22:15:00

#48 HC
Actually when I think about it, there's no' been much evidence of AJ tonight - and there was a board with a "300" for the taking. It's no' like him - maybe he never bought anything for Mrs AJ today and is now in intensive care with a frying pan embedded in........well, you decide where it could be!!!!

48

Peajay,

Herts 14/02/2007 22:47:31

It could be that AJ is enjoying the fruits of his labour after welcoming his wife home from work in the buff with a rose clenched between his buns (Cold Feet style). ;)

49

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 22:52:27

Maybe AJ is doing the right thing by the wife and showing her how much of a smoothy he secretly is :)

50

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 22:54:52

As for my mate that sent me that text JG.....all my mates pretend to be sexist pigs but deep down I'm sure hes groveling to her as we speak :)

51

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 22:56:57

As for me, i think id have to give up computing before i settled down....you girls do demand a lot of attention :)

52

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 22:59:47

The woman that put up with me longterm would have to be a fellow cyber freak......or plan B would be getting my company to a stage where i could sell up and go buy a boat.....a while yet :)

53

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

14/02/2007 23:34:37

Horrible Cankers, hi babe :) he he i know you like being called that. I don't use a microwave because of what it does to the nutrients in food.
I never said i don't ENTERTAIN....being a compulsive obsessive i make sure i put a spring in a girls step.....enough for her to want to pop round for more :)

54

AJ,

Fife 14/02/2007 23:53:11

Well Mrs AJ is fettled - champagne, chocolate, flowers, poetry and sausage!! ye canny beat it!!

HC, JG, and Scottweb,

I hope yer evening went as well as mine! We even enjoyed the Brit Awards (despite the name)! Fratellis were the best - stoned, drunk and weegified!!

55

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

15/02/2007 00:02:33

AJ....Translation........So bags empty then :)

56

AJ,

Fife 15/02/2007 00:07:03

Aw c'mon Scottwebb, it's a special nicht! Nae need tae use such coorse language!!:)

A managed tae get the 1000 on the union blog!! What a beezer o' a night!

57

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

15/02/2007 00:16:13

Translation.....yes Scott...mission acomplished......congrats on bagging the 1000 by the way :)

58

AJ,

Fife 15/02/2007 00:29:41

Thanks Scottwebb, are ye hinging aboot for the new stories? Am jist aboot aff tae ma scratcher!

59

www.scottwebb.co.uk,

15/02/2007 01:57:49

YES....you have a great sleep mate and i will see you in here tomorrow :)

60

Royster,

15/02/2007 04:51:55

#19. I think Cleopatra was decended from Ptolomy, one of Alexander the Great's generals.

61

Royster,

15/02/2007 04:52:57

Actually, on the above picture she looks quite a bit like Stephen Fry.


 

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