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Published Date: 02 June 2009
By HAMISH MACDONELL
TWO former presiding officers of the Scottish Parliament will decide whether Alex Salmond misled MSPs over absconds from prison, it was announced last night.
George Reid and Lord Steel of Aikwood will deliberate on Mr Salmond's performance at First Minister's Questions last week when he answered questions on prisoner absconds for 20 minutes without revealing that another prisoner, a murderer, had absconded the day before.

The First Minister insisted afterwards that he was right not to disclose that information because it was a police matter and entirely up to Tayside Police when the information was made public.

But Iain Gray, the Scottish Labour leader, made an official complaint and this will now be looked at by the two former presiding officers.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 01 June 2009 9:27 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish prisons
 
1

,

01/06/2009 22:11:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
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2

The Online Scot,

Scotland 01/06/2009 22:41:25
The facts that show Gray's claims to be baseless are already in the public domain.

Labour are now out of control and in danger of damaging the parliaments reputation. If this latest complaint, like others, is shown to be wiithout foundation then Gray ought to seriously consider his position.
3

Brianwci,

02/06/2009 00:18:52
Anyone see Reid or Steel disagreeing with the Prison Officers Association and others who are backing Salmond and MacAskil?

I don't think so.

4

,

02/06/2009 00:38:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
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5

Rasco,

02/06/2009 00:43:32
The Herald says Salmond referred Gray's complaint to the panel Salmond will abide by the ruling and hopes Gray will do the same.
6

,

02/06/2009 01:07:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
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7

Edward,

02/06/2009 01:47:57
Desperate times for Labour
at least Hamish MacDonnell still has a soft spot for them.
I hope David Steel and George Reid are embaressed that they have to look into this drivel
8

Am Fògarrach,

02/06/2009 04:18:28
#1 Dr Rufus from the Black Latrine -

",,,then clearly his position will be untenable and he will have to resign immediately."

This all-occasion phrase is getting tiresome, Rufus. Do you get it from pulling the string on the back of a talking doll?
9

donald,

glasgow 02/06/2009 06:49:50
"Point of Order", said the wee Gray man.
10

Alathea,

02/06/2009 07:01:48
Typical Labour this.
They continue to spend more time and effort complaining about the procedures than against the actual content.

No wonder Scotland has been so ill served by them over the years.
11

Tynietiger,

02/06/2009 07:25:15
We await Scotsman front page headline on Thursday "Hold your nose...but vote Labour" ..Does that not sound ridiculous? Oh that was used by Evening News on eve of Scottish elections in May 2007.
12

Tynietiger,

02/06/2009 07:27:43
Note all the headlines under politics are meant to imply the SNP are at it just like the numerous Labour MPs
13

Marian,

02/06/2009 07:28:31
A familiar pattern has now developed before elections in Scotland whereby New Labour and its acolytes routinely conspire to smear the SNP in every way they can during the few days leading up to the election knowing that it will register with voters and likely take the SNP time that goes past the election to provide the evidence to conclusively refute the smears.

The Damian McBride inspired "Smeargate" of opposition politicians may have gone temporarily underground at Westminster but here in Scotland New Labour's acolytes are still busy every day smearing SNP politicians.

The dead tree press and the BBC promote New Labour in their endeavour to cut the opposition vote at elections thus ensuring that New Labour are kept in power at all costs.

It would appear that vote rigging/ballot stuffing/block vote buying/dog whistle politics/character assassination/postal and proxy vote fraud may be used extensively.

The “Smeargate” affair showed that New Labour are intent on ensuring that the next UK general election is going to make Crewe & Nantwich and Glenrothes look like a schoolgirl’s playground fight.

New Labour will conduct a dirty, smear filled, personalised, negative, divisive political campaign that will reach a new low in UK politics. It will be brutal, malevolent, mendacious and extremely unpleasant.

What they don't appear to understand is that their childish antics are counter-productive as the electorate can now see that New Labour has no morals or scruples or policies any more - they are just the anti-SNP party in Scotland and nothing more than that.
14

TWC,

exLabour 02/06/2009 07:40:24
1 Doctor Death, Rufus

Another diversion instead of policy, withe the approach of any election we get all this muck raking.

It just makes Scots angry now, this is not the 70s anymore.
15

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

02/06/2009 08:10:26
More taxpayers money wasted, albeit not on expenses.

Did Iain Gray announce every prisoner who escaped under his stint as Scotland's Gaoler?

I doubt it, double standards yet again.
16

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 08:14:59
TWC - Eck's Liar,
There's no muck-raking here. Mr Salmond got caught being economical with the acualitie (a half truth is a whole lie, as my old grannie used to say) and has done what he usually does when this happens. He reports himself to a couple of tame old duffers and goes for the whitewash. It worked for The Labour Party so why shouldn't the SNP do the same?
17

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 08:17:26
16
I think the issue here is that while he bragged and boasted about how great he was, Mr Salmond concealed the fact that another prisoner had gone AWOL.
This isn't about how good a gaoler Mr Salmond is, it's about how he conducts himself as first minister.
18

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

Barel 02/06/2009 08:22:32
So it transpires that NO Justice Minister has EVER announced the escape of a prisoner at the Scottish Parliament

I wonder who set the precedent for that?
19

Jimmy Le Pie,

02/06/2009 08:29:32
Nice little snippit in the Telegraph today,

"Tony McNulty, the Employment Minister, claimed more than £2,000 to cover accountancy bills and used his office expenses to purchase a list of postal voters in his Harrow constituency a year after the 2005 general election."

'To purchase a list of postal voters'????????

I wonder why?????


VOTE SNP, The ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland.
20

TWC,

exLabour 02/06/2009 08:33:52
17 Grahamski

Naw it was operational and should only be announced by the police, even Elmer Fudd said that the police did not announce it till 2 hours afterwards.

It's just stirring by a SLAB front bench who are not allowed to talk about policies by London.

It is obvious to most of us and |I don't look after salmond I only critique a useless SLAB. I don't even support Independence as a first choice.

I would however like to see a diffferent SLAB leader and Brown removed.

I think only Labour poodles are against these two things.
BTW calm down, I don't tell lies I'm not a Labour MP
21

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

The Kirk 02/06/2009 08:41:47
Labour backbencher Peter Cook has been revealed to have claimed for a church donation as the Telegraph-led expenses scandal continues. Meanwhile, Labour in an ICM poll fall to third place, the first time they have fell behind the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats in nearly 20 years.

Peter Cook, the man in question, claimed for a £5 church donation which he says that he has ‘no recollection’ of the event but has admitted that the event was wrong and is thankful that the Parliamentary Fees Office declined the expense.

Is there no bottom to the sleaze trough, how low can you get?
22

,

02/06/2009 08:45:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Big Dave Fae The Rigs,

02/06/2009 08:56:36
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5297606/MPs-expenses-Full-list-of-MPs-investigated-by-the-Telegraph.html

Is your MP on the list?
24

frank mcbride,

lusitania 02/06/2009 09:03:02
It would appear that if you imply Rumpus's day job, he has your comments deleted.

Why should that be? Especially as my comment was on topic.

Again, for the benefit of NuLabour (Unionist) trolls:

Part 1 of Ian Gray's complaint shows his abysmal incompetence as it will be dismissed as irrelevant.

Part 2 will, also, be dismissed as information release, in terms of ongoing police enquiries, is an operational matter, for the police.

Grahamski, you are a fine one to complain about anyone speaking "half-truths".
25

billalba,

fife 02/06/2009 09:14:22
Labour, tory, liberals have lied to the people of scotland for centuries and continue to lie to us they should be reported for treason.
26

Time to Show Courage,

02/06/2009 09:40:36
#28 cu ceallach

You seem to have scared Grahamski, the anti-independence troll, from this thread. Shame on you! He's a timid creature and you should be more gentle with him. He doesn't like getting backed into a corner with factual arguments that he can't win intellectually. Give him a break. He's deranged. Or at least I assume he must be, backing the discredited and humiliated unionist parties who seem hell-bent on orchestrating their own demise. Leave him Grahamski alone. Labour and Conservative are doing a good enough job without him. Let him cower whilst he licks his wounds.
27

Time to Show Courage,

02/06/2009 09:59:31
FAO Hamish MacDonell - would-be journalist- Scotsmanski Newspapaer.

You must think your readers are intellectually deficient to think that we do not seek out other versions of events. Yet again, in this newspaper in its death-throes publishes a story with an undisguised anti SNP slant on its message. You must really try to be a bit more creative, or you may have to return to what the Scotsman used to do to sell newspapers...tell the truth. It might actually be an idea seriously worth thinking about, given the terminally declining state of your readership at the moment.

For a more realistic account of what actually happened try the link below...Salmond referred himself to the inquiry. Mr plain-man Grey wouldn't have thought of it. Just like he'll never think of a vote of no-confidence in the SNP. Turkeys vote for Christmas...I think not.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/8078199.stm

28

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 10:02:40
The Herald report:

In a letter to Labour leader Iain Gray last night, Mr Salmond said: "I believe your complaint to be publicity-driven rather than procedural, and pursued without any solid basis whatsoever.

"However, I set up the independent procedure for the purpose of referring complaints to the panel of former Presiding Officers.

"On that basis, I have made the reference that you requested to the panel."

Mr Salmond said he would abide by the outcome, challenged Mr Gray to agree to do likewise, and attacked the Labour leader's arguments.

29

alanh,

ek 02/06/2009 10:25:58
will the greyman or will the nu liebore sleaze and spin , north brittian dept, party pay for the costs of this.
Instead of doing ANYTHING constructive to help our country Grey simply bleats and moans. Add in the bold baron and his party is costing us a lot of money while they try, and fail repeatedly, to make cheap political points
30

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 10:38:14
34
Oh dear. At least your cheap political points are free, eh?
31

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 10:40:38
33
Oh come on Gregor, that can't possibly be a letter from Mr Salmond alleging that he wrote: "I believe your complaint to be publicity-driven.."
Not even the brazen Mr Salmond could be that brass-necked - publicity-driven complaint? Mr Salmond? Are you mad?
32

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 10:42:00
33
"Mr Salmond said he would abide by the outcome, challenged Mr Gray to agree to do likewise, and attacked the Labour leader's arguments."

That's exactly what The Labour Party said when they organised their 'whitewash' investigations.
33

Sgian Achlais,

02/06/2009 11:53:14
32Time to Show Courage, 02/06/2009 09:59:31
FAO Hamish MacDonell - would-be journalist- Scotsmanski Newspapaer.

You must think your readers are intellectually deficient to think that we do not seek out other versions of events.

=====================================

I now read the other news sources first then read the Scotsman for the social aspects.

I like hunting out Labour Trolls and Journalists and these days they are in such terrible decline that most of their natural habitat has been destroyed by the Nats in Scotland and the Tories in England.

The even lesser spotted MP's seem to have abandoned their nests and second homes and now are dying out.

It seems they have been affected by a terrible disease called Truth. The new Truth about their expenses could wipe out the entire population in both Scotland and England.

Nu Labour - Endangered Species
Labour MP with Moral Compass - Extinct
34

Miss H,

02/06/2009 13:15:05
17 No he hasn't. Gray complained in a letter to Salmond - probably attached to a press release. I can imagine it now - Iain Gray calls on Alex Salmond to answer the serious accusation that he misled parliament blah di blah di blah.

Alex Salmond replied as follows, according to the Herald:

"I believe your complaint to be publicity-driven rather than procedural, and pursued without any solid basis whatsoever.

"However, I set up the independent procedure for the purpose of referring complaints to the panel of former Presiding Officers.

"On that basis, I have made the reference that you requested to the panel."

So it will go to Reid and Steel. They will find - as has been the case with all of Labour's vexatious complaints against the SNP - that there is no case to answer.

The only question is when will the parliamentary authorities decide to punish vexatious complaints instead of just letting them by?


35

Arfur,

02/06/2009 13:16:36
Typical hootsman - some facts please.

Not only do the Scottish police force stand by Salmond this joke of a paper seems to think Grey put forward Salmond when in fact Salmond put forward Grey.
36

Miss H,

02/06/2009 13:18:45
18 No minister has ever announced prisoner absconds in parliament. No minister has ever tried to direct the police or prison service in operational matters.

You can be forgiven for not knowing that.

Labour can't - they used to be in government ffs.

They are either lying therefore in pretending that they do not know the rules or, and this is possibly worse, they genuinely did not know the rules because when in office they were entirely run by the civil service and had no grip on what was actually going on.

Either way we don't want people like that back in power do we?
37

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 13:20:52
This complaint reeks of political desperation on the part of the Labour party and Iain Gray in particular. I suspect Gray's complaint will come to nothing. If that proves to be the case, he should resign. As a Labour insider recently said, he has surrounded himself on the front bench with "incompetents". It's time he went and let the Labour party win favour through policies not politically motivated slurs. Can he get any more pathetic?
38

Miss H,

02/06/2009 13:23:01
42 Can he get any more pathetic?

I genuinely do not think so.

Come back Wendy - all is forgiven!
39

Time to Show Courage,

02/06/2009 13:36:01
Qoutes from Phil Fairlie, Vice President, Prison Officers Association...

He criticised the "manufactured outrage from opposition parties", saying they had taken "no steps whatsoever" to tackle absconding from the open estate when they were in power."

Mr Fairlie went on: "The POA fully supports the steps taken by the Justice Secretary in addressing the transfer of prisoners to the open estate.

"The fact that at present it is only holding roughly half its capacity, despite record numbers of prisoners, would suggest that the conditions for admission to the open estate are far more stringent than was ever in place under previous administrations."

"In our dealings with the Justice Secretary, he has always shown a great understanding of the issues facing us within the prison service, and has been extremely supportive of the staff within it.

"Prison staff take their role on behalf of society very seriously and carry it out with great commitment and professionalism. At present we have a Justice Secretary who both recognises and supports them in that, and until such times as that changes, he will continue to have the support of this union."

Mr Fairlie said that while the union shared worries over prisoners such as Brian Martin absconding, its members were equally concerned that the Scottish Prison Service and its staff were "fast becoming a political football for some of our politicians".

He added: "This union is deeply concerned that some of the comments made this week simply undermine both the morale and confidence of the staff in our open estate, who are carrying out a very important role on behalf of the public in preparing prisoners for release back into our communities."

Open prisons are a "vital and necessary element of the prison service that not only seeks to prepare prisoners for release back into our communities but are there to test them as to their suitability for that release", he said.


Says it all really. Mr Grey, you should think
40

Time to Show Courage,

02/06/2009 13:37:03
contd.,

...before speaking.
41

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 13:52:12
39
"Gray complained in a letter to Salmond - probably attached to a press release.."

Something the SNP have never done nor will ever do....

....see party hacks?

see blinkers?

see ridiculous hypocrisy......

pass the sick bag
42

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 13:53:55
42
Mr Angus MacNeill SNP MP's accusations of 'cash for questions' cost this country hundreds of thousands of pounds and came to nought. Presumably he should resign?
43

buzzer,

Aberdeen 02/06/2009 14:01:02
17# Grahamski. Did your old grannie use to say 'shut up and dont talk so much rubbish young man'.
44

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 14:06:41
The party's over Grahamski/it's time to call it a day. There's no way back for Labour.
45

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 14:15:38
48
No, but I suspect yours did.
46

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 14:16:29
49
This has nothing to do with Labour. It has everything to do with Mr Salmond diminishing the role of first minister. Again.
47

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 15:04:20
#51,

Well I'd argue that if anyone is trying to diminish the role of First Minister (gleefully) it's Iain Gray and, of course, yourself. Alex Salmond "is to be scrutinised" - yet you have found him guilty. You must have some access to Government that the rest of us lack. Why not wait until the scrutineers give their verdict? Or is this really about getting as much political mileage out of a false accusation before it gets found out?
48

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 15:18:23
Iain Gray's accusation is not like that made by Tavish Scott a couple of months ago and for which the First Minister was cleared.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/80708-first-minister-cleared-of-misleading-parliament/

No doubt Grahamski returned a guilty verdict then, too, before waiting for the outcome of messrs Steel and Reid. I see the SNP have been cleared of still another charge made by Labour, as reported in today's Scotsman:

http://news.scotsman.com/politics/SNP-39did-not-break-rules39.5323347.jp
49

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 15:19:07
oops. In 53 I meant "not unlike". Sorry.
50

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 02/06/2009 15:52:11
51 This has everything to do with Labour, it's a strategy of despiration.

The basic problem is that Labour do not have any idea's / solutions that can mount an attack against the SNP.

No ideas, no solutions, no policies and no bloody clue.
51

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 17:36:23
55
The Labour Party are behaving like an opposition which is perfectly reasonable bearing in mind that is exactly what they are.
The problem is that the first minister played fast and loose with parliament(again) and is trying to get his behaviour excused (again) by the placemen he appointed precisely for that job.
At teh end of the day Mr MacAskill will go and the same psycho nats will be on bleating when that happens too.
52

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 02/06/2009 17:51:07
A last few comments for your grahamski, to oppose you have have something to offer your mob only have soor plooms in the bag.

Policies what policies, nothing there laddie nothing in the bag not even a putter just soor plooms.

The First Minister did not play fast and loose he followed procedure, I know that's hard for the Labour party to understand what that means.

So tell me how many times did Cathy Jamieson tell parliament that somebody has absconded from Castle Huntly?

What placemen? Are you saying that the POA and the SPS are full of SNP placemen and they are sticking up for there SNP pals?

Kenny MacAskill will still be there, Ian Gray will not.

Get used to oppostion Grahamski your party is going to be there for a wee while yet.
53

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 18:24:36
57
You know what? I'm delighted that you guys are so blinkered you can't see that your perceived biggest asset (Mr Salmond) will soon become your biggest liabilty. You're too busy cheering Mr Salmond on to realise that slowly but surely his arrogant and bullying behaviour will turn people off.
For all your hollow 'he followed procedure' bleating what people saw was a wee fat man bellowing incoherently about how great he was while concealing the fact ANOTHER prisoner had gone missing. Interestingly,none of the political journalists saw Mr Salmond's behaviour at FMQs as a bravura display of chutzpah by a politician at the top of his game but as a discredited and opportunistic chancer taking liberties with parliament.
The SNP spin doctors were out in force trying to contain teh damage that Mr Salmond created with his carry on. I note that several of the cybernats have taken to quoting the prion service and unions but haven't mentioned the police. Any idea why that could be?
Here's a clue: Mr MacAskill and Mr Salmond claimed that Tayside Police didn't want the information released. Tayside Police are now briefing that this is a lie. Oh dear, more spinning for the hapless nat spindoctors, I fear.....
54

Jimmy Le Pie,

02/06/2009 19:26:56
I hope none of this expenses fuss affects The Devine/Connarty Furniture Trading Company(Inc Eastern Electrical Shelving)???

I could do with a bookcase!

New Labour Sleaze - Working hard to feather our own nests!!
55

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 02/06/2009 19:32:17
#59, Grahamski,

what an incredible rant. Like many in Labour you are short on positive policy initiatives and big on personalised hate. I've looked back at some of your posts from the Tavish Scott accusation, for which the First Minister was cleared, and there is that same contempt, personal insult, disguised as politics. If that's all you have to offer I don't think you're a very good recruting sergeant. Let's wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is. And if Alex Salmond is once again found not guilty, may we reserve the right to ask for Iain Gray's resignation?
56

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 20:40:13
62
And if Alex Salmond is once again found not guilty, may we reserve the right to ask for Iain Gray's resignation?

You have the right to ask for it if you want.

I take it you will be demanding Angus MacNeill resigns forthwith? His allegations about cash for honours proved to be unfounded costing us hundreds of thousands of pounds and resulting in precisely no cases being prosecuted....when did you demand his resignation, exactly?
57

Grahamski,

Falkirk 02/06/2009 20:53:21
60
Dear god I couldn't have written a more ludicrous parody of a post if I'd tried, comic genius!

Check this out:
"Its not blinkered loyalty to Alex.." Comic pause for effect,
..."although he is the finest political leader in the UK.."

See, that doesn't sound like somebody blinkered by loyalty at all - finest political leasder, indeed.

Or how about this one:

"And as any learned historian would tell you..."

What, as opposed to an unlearned one?

Or perhaps the poster should talk to a 'learned' historian or indeed anyone who hasn't a tartan teacosy over their heads because he is labouring under the delusion that Scotland is living under a "hostile foreign Nation occupying our land"....

Really you cybernats need to have a word with your pal, 'Independentlyinclined' because he sounds like he's just escaped from the Edinburgh Home for the Chronically Bewildered - poor old butterfingers MacAskill just can't keep the nutters from slipping through his fingers these days....


58

smokey joe 1,

02/06/2009 21:52:46
Gray needs his head examined.
59

,

02/06/2009 22:15:51
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