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Party leaders clash over SNP's record in power

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Published Date: 07 May 2009
ALEX Salmond and Labour leader Iain Gray today traded insults in Holyrood clashes over the SNP's record in power.
Mr Gray accused the First Minister of a string of broken promises and said: "Isn't this why one of our papers asks today on his record, has it all just been big talk from a wee man?"

Mr Salmond brushed this aside with a joke about his weight, saying the jibe was "very comforting indeed".

He went on to mock Mr Gray as the first Scottish Labour leader to be less popular than the leader of the Scottish Tories.

The clashes came shortly after the 10th anniversary of the first Holyrood elections and near the mid-point of the SNP's term in office.

Mr Salmond began by noting that all parties should take some satisfaction from the advent of an institution that had changed life in Scotland "fundamentally and for the better".

Mr Gray began his attack by saying Mr Salmond's cabinet had found time this week to "slap themselves on the back".

"Did they find time to think about the 1,000 teachers cut from our schools, the 1,000 apprentices made redundant still waiting on their training guarantee, the 20,000 construction workers on the dole because of the First Minister's failure to build schools and hospitals?

"Some of these people might be watching, because they are certainly not at work," said Mr Gray.

"Can the First Minister look them in the eye and tell them how well he is doing?"

Mr Salmond hit back: "That's the kind of question that probably sounded all right when he was rehearsing it with Andy Kerr" and went on to tell of "overwhelming evidence from the opinion polls of public support for the SNP.

Mr Gray turned to Mr Salmond's "list of so-called achievements" and mocked some of them.

"'Reviewed modern apprenticeship programmes' – he means he cut them," said the Labour leader.

"Number 41 – 'develop a North Sea supergrid'.

"How did I miss that? Where is he hiding it – in the basement of Bute House?

"Not so much wired to Norway – more like wired to the moon."

And the claim "Scottish Futures Trust achieved" showed Mr Salmond was "having a laugh at our expense".

"In two years it has delivered two meetings, one email, and not a single school or hospital," said Mr Gray.

Mr Salmond said the North Sea grid and other achievements were "hugely important" to Scotland and turned to a list of 50 SNP commitments "already met or exceeded by this Government".

He went on to list the first five of the achieved commitments – the council tax freeze, the small business bonus scheme, abolishing Forth and Tay bridge tolls, reversing the decision to close A&E departments at Monklands and Ayr hospitals – "good job we didn't start downgrading Monklands in recent events, is it not?" – and 1,000 more police.

"The Labour Party should perhaps wonder why in the long miserable years of Government they did not manage to achieve any one of these 50 commitments."

Mr Gray countered by highlighting commitments not delivered like a £2,000 grant for first-time buyers, a promise to "ditch" student debt, carers still waiting for funding, children in unreduced class sizes, teachers "on the dole" and pensioners means-tested for free central heating.

"He did not mention his local income tax, just ditched," said Mr Gray.
"So many promises broken in so little time.

"I don't have time to go through all of them.

"Isn't this why one our our papers today asks on his record, has it all just been big talk from a wee man?"

Mr Salmond told him: "I must say I am delighted about the description of my size – very comforting indeed."

He said Mr Gray could hardly complain about the non-implementation the local income tax when Labour had voted against it.

And the SNP had been unable to achieve its commitment to cancelling the Edinburgh trams project and use that money for other purposes, Mr Salmond went on.

"I wonder, is there anybody else in this Parliament, anybody on the Labour benches, even Iain Gray, who thinks he was wise to combine with the Tories and the Liberal Party and foist that project on the people of Scotland?"

Mr Salmond went on: "Iain Gray has something to celebrate as well.

"It's just that he's unable to quarrel or question the 50 commitments met by this Government.

"He is unable to explain why he is the first Labour leader in history in Scotland to be less popular not than an SNP leader – but to be less popular than the Tories' leader in Scotland."

Mr Gray accused Mr Salmond of resorting to "desperation".

"There are two signs of desperation in politics," he said.

"One is to tell the electorate lies in order to get their votes– that's what local income tax is about.

"The second is when the First Minister is reduced to reading out polls – especially polls that he bought and paid for himself."

The Scottish Building Federation said the Scottish Futures Trust had "destroyed" 20,000 jobs, and this had also been described as a "scandal" by Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, who said it could cost a further 15,000 jobs.

Labour was doing all it could to secure 15,000 jobs for young Scots in the budget package, and 11,000 jobs were secured on the Clyde yesterday and a further 1,000 created.

"Thanks to his Futures Trust, the First Minister is destroying Scottish jobs faster than Margaret Thatcher did 30 years ago," said Mr Gray.

Mr Salmond retorted that 10 years ago, unemployment in Scotland was 25% higher than the UK average, but despite the present recession and "difficult times", Scottish unemployment was 25% below the UK average.

"Iain Gray's complains about our firm action to accelerate the economy in Scotland and create jobs through our plans – he should look south of the border and wonder why their plans are not being quite as successful," said Mr Salmond.

He went on to suggest Mr Gray was "in denial" about £500 million "of Labour cuts" planned for Scotland next year.

The threat to Scottish jobs came not from an SNP Government but from those cuts – "real term cuts in public spending planned for the next few years".

"The fortunate thing is that not just in opinion polls but in real elections, the people of Scotland have the opportunity to decide for economic powers for this Parliament and independence for this country."

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Alan B,

07/05/2009 14:06:31
Labour and Gray are a joke. Labour under McConnell were an embarrassment. Labour under Dewar were incompetent (exams not marked, road bridge contracts not signed etc). McLeish as a leader was abit better but his problem was corrruption, that seems so deeply rooted within the labour party.

The snp have been a breath of fresh air. Not perfect but the best goverance for scotland in my life time. Combining the competence with having a democratic mandate something the tories never had in scotland.
2

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/05/2009 14:12:07
If I was Salmond I would have read out all 50 of the SNP achievements just to pi55 the Earl off !!
3

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/05/2009 14:13:13
Gray looks very vulnerable recently. His spin (lies) is turning the public off.
4

The west awake,

REMEMBER THE FEEBLE 50 07/05/2009 14:13:59
Gray couldn't lace Salmonds boots. He is rubbish, like his rubbish party.
Gray doesn't deserve his 7%, he must have a large family.
5

,

07/05/2009 14:14:52
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6

alanh,

ek 07/05/2009 14:16:07
here is the details of the 2003 nu liebore, north brittian dept, manifesto.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2925229.stm

What did they actually achieve from it as a partnership administration.
As opposed to our present govt that is trying to get as much thru as possible as a minority govt where the unionist alliance simply close ranks wherever they can despite rarely having any alternative

Do Nu liebore, north brittian dept, HAVE ANY positive policies for Scotland?
7

alanh,

ek 07/05/2009 14:17:01
was this instead of the live debate, on FMQs, that went so horribly wrong last week?
8

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 07/05/2009 14:22:47
Iain Gray's leadership is woeful. Since he became leader he has failed to get any positive message across to the public. His party are now between 10% and 12% behind the SNP in the last two polls. This recent attempt at humour - no doubt taking Mandelson's advice - is laughable but for all the wrong reasons. The trouble is that Gray seems incapable of connecting with voters. Even with the priveleged position of having newspapers like the Scotsman publish Labour press releases as "news", he has failed to move his party forward. Come June 4th it will be clear that the Labour party are finished at Westminster. I wonder how long it will take before Iain Gray goes the way of Wendy Alexander.
9

brownlie,

07/05/2009 14:25:31
Well, I should imagine that's Grahamski sacked as Ian Gray's speech writer.
10

alanh,

ek 07/05/2009 14:26:14
"Mr Gray accused the First Minister of a string of broken promises and said: "Isn't this why one of our papers asks today on his record, has it all just been big talk from a wee man?"

Is the "newspaper" the greyman is referring to the article from that esteemed political journalist Bill Leckie from today's "scottish" sun?
11

,

07/05/2009 14:26:32
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12

The Scotchman,

07/05/2009 14:53:53
"Isn't this why one of our papers asks today on his record, has it all just been big talk from a wee man?"

No, it's because the paper is pro-Liebore.
13

David55,

Kirkcaldy 07/05/2009 15:16:14
Maybe at the next Scottish elections in 2011, Labour should actually find somebody competent, possibly from Westminster, to come up and lead the party. There will no doubt be a few to choose from after the undoubted massacre of Labour at the 2010 Westminster election. The likes of Gray are easy meat for a seasoned performer like Salmond.

14

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/05/2009 15:18:51
7% is not a great rating is it?
15

David55,

Kirkcaldy 07/05/2009 15:18:54
#15 - "He's basically put off the hard decisions until after an election, and in the process put hundreds of thousands of people's livelihood's at risk."

Hopefully the electorate see this and punish them accordingly at the next elections. If politicians put themselves and their party before the country, they should be punished at the polls.
16

Me Bungo Pony,

Dundee 07/05/2009 15:22:21
#6 alanh, I especially liked this "promise" from Labour's 2003 Manifesto .... "Design a fairer council tax banding system". That one must have gotten lost in the mix. I don't remember them addressing this at all. At least, not until the 2007 election and only then as another "promise" to do some thing about it. Looks like a broken promise to me .... or does it just become an aspiration if its Labour. Labour's whole stance on this "broken promise" mantra is hypocritical in the extreme. Even a glance at their 2003 manifesto shows a huge number of "broken promises". How can anyone trust Labour to tell the truth?
17

David55,

Kirkcaldy 07/05/2009 15:30:46
7% of the confused soles actually knew who Gray was and thought he would be the best First Minister. At least they knew who he was, which is good going.

36% thought Eck was a good leader.

4% for the Lib-dems and 10% for the Tories.

25% didn't know and 17% thought they were all rank rotten. So 42% either think all the leaders are poor or don't know/care who is the best. To all the activists on here - way to wow the electorate.
18

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/05/2009 15:36:01
Having just watched FMQ's I would say that Salmond kept a clean sheet while Gray scored a couple of own-goals. Fairly typical result!
19

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 15:50:38
Having had a charisma by-pass operation,Iain Gray is laughably out of his depth,when attempting to get the better of Alex Salmond.
Both sides of the border Labour are finished,despite this newspapers best efforts.
20

,

07/05/2009 15:54:47
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21

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 15:56:36
22 Cpt Incredible,
Having a similar discussion on the "Dreams of Power" thread. I believe there has recently been a little less Nat-Bashing around here. This article actually finishes with quotes from AS. Normally I would have expected to read much more from Gray and to finish with Gray.

Is it just me who sees a small but positive change?

Cheers,

Tha Baron.
22

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 15:57:51
23 Stan B
The result was a highly controversial win by postal votes, as you well know! Do you REALLY want to open that up again?

Rgds,

The Baron.
23

The Scotchman,

07/05/2009 16:00:00
Glenrothes is fools and a Liebore stomping ground. A place that rightfully won the 2009 Carbuncles Award. That's what Liebore brings.
24

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 16:10:29
Well done wee Eck ,not only did he make Gray look like a daft wee boy he also shut Kerr up.
Each week just gets funnier and funnier at FMQ,s.
25

Me Bungo Pony,

Dundee 07/05/2009 16:28:14
They've pulled the comments from the "Night when SNP dreams of power came true" article :(
26

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 16:30:38
28 MBP
oops! Possibly guilty on that. We were discussing bias in journalism....

Waiting to see if I get banned now :(

The Baron
27

Galvatron,

07/05/2009 16:31:40
So there's "overwhelming evidence from the opinion polls of public support for the SNP", is there! This at a time when we have one of the most unpopular Labour governments in history and little credible alternative.

In addition to the negative appeal, there's Supernat, of course: popularity built on foundations about as sturdy as quicksand (or the SFT, for that matter!)
28

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 16:36:38
30
Galvatron,
Labour in Scotland will have to change ,but they wont.
It just gets easier and easier for the SNP.
Thanks to people realising the utter futility of voting labour.
29

Mèths,

07/05/2009 16:43:37
Yep. Thread pulled. What's the point in posting on this rag? It all depends on what moderator is on call at any given time. Obviously today it's the tea boy's turn.
30

Me Bungo Pony,

Dundee 07/05/2009 16:46:41
#30 Galvatron, according to the last youGov poll, 47% of Tory voters favoured Independence. As did 35% of LDs and 25% of Labour voters. All in all, about 55% of Scottish voters favoured Independence (whether within or without the EU). It is this which guarentees the SNPs continuing lead in the polls. Not Labour's self inflicted woes or Alex Salmond's personal popularity. However, other policies are not so favoured which is why not every Indie supporter votes SNP.
31

Me Bungo Pony,

Dundee 07/05/2009 16:49:10
#32 Meths, watch you don't get this thread pulled as well :(
32

David55,

Kirkcaldy 07/05/2009 16:53:03
#32 Let the Tea Boy express his authority. That way his girlfriend might not get a shiner after the OF game at the weekend.
33

Galvatron,

07/05/2009 16:59:38
#33 Me Bungo: what I find interesting in your figures is that support for separation is highest amongst Tory voters (no doubt hoping to create some kind of free market, right wing utopia in a separatist Scotland).

It was tactical voting by Tories that largely delivered the Nats' narrow victory at the Scottish Elections and it's all going to unravel when there's a general backlash against the Tartan Toryism (such as was the Nats' undoing in Glenrothes).

#32: Commenting's been rather abruptly ended on the "SNP Dreams" thread as a result of you culty chaps getting carried away by your jumped up pressure group's perceived success with the electorate; no doubt about it!
34

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:02:29
34

Don't blame me! "Meths is back" got barred yesterday. For what? The mods just zap you and that's it. No explanation. Nada. Zip.

(Meths is back can be contacted at

Methalions@hotmail.com)

But they won't call. They never do. Oh well.
35

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:03:24
35

:-{}
36

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:03:41
Galvatron 36

"It was tactical voting by Tories that largely delivered the Nats' narrow victory at the Scottish Elections"

What, both of them? Remind me, just how big is the Tory party in Scotland?

The Baron
37

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:03:55
38

Worst sideways speech bubble ever.
38

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:04:40
39 Mein Baron

I blame you. You made me post the TinyBubbles yesterday.

39

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:05:07
40 Meths.

Ta, wondered what that was!

The Baron.
40

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:06:34
41 Meths.

Sorreee.....

But they WERE cool.

Still laughing at the one for Smeagol!

Cheers,

The Baron.
41

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:07:00
BARRED AH TELLS YE - BARRED!

Sorry for shouting.
42

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:08:28
Speaking of Smeagol, I actually checked his Blog today.

Dire, dire stuff.

43

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:12:42
Baron

Did we have some tram discussions a few months back on the tabloid version of this "paper"?
44

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:17:38
46 Meths.

Don't remember, but probably not. After the Great Tram wars, I didnt post much, if at all, until last week.

Really miss those debates, some were hysterical. We ended up discussing Spacehoppers one thread (my idea!) and even AMsquared was trying to crack jokes.

Ah me, great days.

Baron M.

Cheers,

Baron
45

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:18:44
Sorry about bottom of 47, my keyboard is slightly bonkers.

The Baron.
46

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:20:40
46 Meths,
Can't remember your take on the wretched things, but were you against?

Maybe should not discuss this. I got you cancelled yesterday, possibly the Dreams of Power thread today, I think I should cal it a day!

Baron M
47

Mèths,

07/05/2009 17:28:27
Trams for bams. Does that explain my take?
Laters.
48

arc of insolvency,

07/05/2009 17:31:32
The SNP record in power is very very poor.

Increase class sizes, less teachers, student debt, no additional nursery places, (1000 new police and reduction in business rates were only adhered to as a precurser for Conservative support for the budget)

And the response you get from the SNP..........it's Westminster fault.

And the response you get from some SNP supporters.......traitor.

Completely pathetic.
49

Baron Von MunchenBurger,

Watching the Rhein 07/05/2009 17:34:22
50 Mèths,
indeed, sir. Indeed.

Right, nothing to see here, I'm going home. Only one post to argue against and Galvies gone back into deep space.

Bye all!

The Baron.
50

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:39:17
53 If that is the case then why didn't Ian Gray and Labour try and raise a vote of no confidence?

If things are as bad as you say they are, it would be easy to get support in parliament?
51

,

07/05/2009 17:41:29
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52

,

07/05/2009 17:42:36
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53

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:43:44
56 Andy Kerr is an MP as well? Jings I didn't know that.
54

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:46:05
57 Quite easily as Ian Gray is very poor on most things including trying to be humourous.

Even using a script he's rubbish at it.
55

,

07/05/2009 17:48:08
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56

,

07/05/2009 17:48:58
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57

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:51:19
Doctor Death @ 61 you have me at a disadvantage there, as I never attempt humour as I am really rubbish at it!
58

,

07/05/2009 17:52:58
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59

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:53:08
60 An interesting find, I think I remember a programme about this a few years ago.
60

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:53:51
63 Is that you Rufus? What's happened to RTF?
61

David55,

Kirkcaldy 07/05/2009 17:58:24
#57 Doctor Death - Are you Gray's brother or did you write that rubbish for him? Tell him he's a useless git and that he should resign.
62

,

07/05/2009 17:58:25
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63

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 17:59:59
Doc @ 63 I am fine, I had a pile of dirty nappies in the drive when the bin went for a tumble when I got home last night oh the joys.
64

,

07/05/2009 18:01:18
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65

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 18:05:54
Come on RTF don't try to make us all fall about laughing, as my sides are still sore after watching FMQ's earlier.

The problem for Gray is that he can't be his own person, with his agenda so week after week the same stuff.
66

,

07/05/2009 18:09:17
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67

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 07/05/2009 18:11:49
71 Hopefully you are covered by warranty. The best put down of the day was for Mike Rumbles it was a classic.

Cheers the noo.
68

brownlie,

07/05/2009 18:14:54
Rufus, oh Rufus, whatever happened to the red-faced pimpernel?
69

,

07/05/2009 18:19:07
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70

The Vital Spark,

07/05/2009 18:21:01

#72 Tormod,Auld Reekie

Yep, the Rumbles incident even upstaged Gary as a comedy act, no mean feat.

Looks like the Lib Dems have taken the meaning of Party leaders clash to a whole new level and seem to
be getting a bit violent :)

A spokesman for the first minister said: "Usually when a parliamentarian wants to indulge in theatricals they do something a bit more dramatic, like throw an order paper or grab the mace.

"It says it all about the Lib Dems that the best Mr Rumbles could do was fling a paper clip. It was all taken in the best of humour."

A Lib Dem spokesman said: "I'm sure if Mike was really trying to hit the first minister, he'd have chosen something bigger and he wouldn't have missed."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8038394.stm

71

nova albion,

07/05/2009 18:22:50
Salmond and Gray! The perfect combination for Scotland to implode.
72

brownlie,

07/05/2009 18:33:37
Doctor Death,

What a pity. I used to enjoy our silly little soirees into the increasingly bizarre world of Scotsman journalese.
73

brownlie,

07/05/2009 18:35:21
nova albion

Are you a trainee troll?
74

nova albion,

07/05/2009 18:45:35
78. Are you a precocious tw-t?
75

Mèths,

07/05/2009 18:52:03
Are you kimba?
76

Mèths,

07/05/2009 18:52:21
LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
77

brownlie,

07/05/2009 18:52:55
79

Ah, good, you've answered my question. goodbye.
78

Desmo,

Lumphinnans 07/05/2009 18:59:19
I was lucky[?] enough to have caught Radio Scotland`s coverage of FMQs today.

Does Ian Grey`s contribution really constitute the best "The Scottish Labour Party" [SIC] can come up with?

What a dreadful, low-rent, apology for opposition.

I wouldn`t give Labour the steam off ma shecht, but even I`m embarrassed for them.
79

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/05/2009 19:03:34


And a 'Paper-Clip' thrown at Salmond!, a missile that failed its target!
I did watch the broadcast live, Salmond kept it all it good humour, infact he was in a very joyful mood today.



80

Media at One,

07/05/2009 19:37:00
Salmond is not a fool, he has merely lost his way. His vision for Scotland is not so much a vision anymore but rather an hallucination founded on visions of William Wallace fighting the English whilst crying for F R E E D O M!
Thankfully the world dont know who Salmond is, they see Brown and realise he is also Scotland's leader - not exactly the most complete politician but a better representation than Salmond would be if people knew who he was.
81

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 19:52:39
Maybe Iain Gray would be wise to use You Tube like his beloved Dear Leader, Comrade Broon, rather than FMQ's??

His weekly humiliation must be wearing him down, so You Tube would be the perfect vehicle for Comrade Gray to show the world how competent and switched on he thinks he is??
82

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 19:57:04
Media at One,

Are you a trainee troll like nova albion??

Or are you the same person??

The only reason I think this, is that you both write the same type of drivel!!
83

,

07/05/2009 20:02:23
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84

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 20:07:10
87
Jimmy Le Pie,He tried that one.
After his embarrassing performance on Newsnight he shakes like a leaf when he spots a camera pointing at him.
85

The Vital Spark,

07/05/2009 20:10:29
It is interesting that Gray chooses to scoff and lamely try to make cheap jokes on an important and strategic initiative to Scotland like the North Sea Super Grid.

The exact Manifesto promise, which Iain Gray apparently has not read, perhaps because in another childish act he pretended to rip it up on the floor of the Scottish Parliament, is :

"We will build on initial discussions with the Norwegian government and EU Commission on
proposals for a North Sea super-grid, able to take electricity from offshore Scotland and
Norway direct to markets in mainland Europe. Taking forward this initiative will be a priority
for an SNP led government and we will seek an early meeting with Norwegian ministers to
explore options."

www.snp.org/system/files/manifesto+programme.pdf

And indeed this exactly what has been achieved and is
still being worked on as would expected of any long term strategic initiative.

o November 2008 - North Sea Energy Grid pre-scoping study published by Scottish Government
o Bilateral discussions with Norway
o Bilateral discussion with the European Commission
o North Sea grid highlighted in EU’s Second Strategic Energy Review
o North Sea grid included as project in EU Economic Recovery Plan
o January 2009 – Georg Adamowitsch, European Coordinator for offshore grids, visit to Scotland
o Scotland now part of the European Working Group on North Sea Grid Connections.
o 5 February 2009 – Scotland’s proposals presented at the European Working Group in Brussels
o 17 March 2009 – Scotland’s proposals presented in detail at the grid workshop in Marseilles

www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/917/0079878.doc

The SNP has a strong vision and determination
to advance Scotland forward, Labour has no such vision and appears determined to take Scotland backward.

86

Media at One,

07/05/2009 20:10:37
Jimmy

How many trolls are there in Scotland? A few million? What is this new troll statistic? Is it all the people who dont support the SNP?
You see Jimmy, in a democratic society people are permitted to voice their opinions without being referred to as trolls - but since it is democracy you are entitiled to your opinion.
Salmond has never actually LED Scotland, which is ironic when you consider that the very man he idolises, Mr William Wallace, was a leader - Salmond is so obsessed with independence that his visions and his needs are placed in front of the needs of the nation. Frightening still is that there are people out there who actually support this mad man such is the level of their indoctrination.
Salmond could literally get away with anything in their fanatical minds and that is a scary thought -
87

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 20:16:50
#90 smokey,

I've got that Newsnicht performance on my computer at home. Absolutly superb!!

In fact all these media 'gems' will be worth showing over and over again come the election, just to remind the electorate how utterly incompetent New Labour Sleaze are!!
88

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 20:22:02
#89 Dead Doctor,

The petition isn't doing as well as Our Dear Leader expected. When I last checked it, it was at 37, down from 68!!!

Of the 37 I think that 30 of them are fakies, using names such as U.R. Awanker, P.L Easgo, etc., but we must struggle on to save the Empire!!
89

Westfield Bairns,

Falkirk 07/05/2009 20:24:23
Watched FMQ today and enjoyed the usual slap down for the irrelevence which is Iain Gray and his party. In fact when it comes down to pecking order iain Gray is basically the tea boy for London Labour

86 Media at One
I'm presuming your support worker helped you with this, Care in the Comunity in action.
90

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 20:28:10
#92 One Media,


Alex Salmond has proved to be the ONLY First Minister who has put Scotland first.

After the clowns like McConnell, Dewar and thon other idiot McLeish, Alex Salmond is a breath of fresh air.

How do the polls compare between Alex and the other 'party' leaders???

Who got 7%???
91

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 20:29:59
93
Jimmy Le Pie.
I sent it to relatives in Canada and the USA they were howling with laughter.
Gray is now world infamous.
lol
92

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 20:39:32
Smokey,

Perhaps we should string all New Labour Sleaze's video gems together and broadcast it at the election?

It would go global!!
93

Stan Butler,

07/05/2009 20:53:27

#96 Jimmy Le Pie

'Alex Salmond has proved to be the ONLY First Minister who has put Scotland first'


Do you mean Scotland, or the Scottish people?

Do you think the Scottish people all have the same interests?

94

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 20:56:08
98
Jimmy Le Pie,
If strung them all together it would take about 4 years to watch it all ,better to have a series called labour Labour Gaffs,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc,etc.
I dont think you can get a 4 billion giga bite DVD disc yet.
95

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 20:57:34
99
Stan Butler.
Apart from a few selfseeking labour troughers ,yes.
96

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 20:58:26
Stan, in case you didn't know Scotland is a country with it's own (albeit limited) parliament. Alex Salmond is First Minister and looks after the interests of all the people of Scotland.


The words "all the people" are a wee clue!!
97

Stan Butler,

07/05/2009 21:06:01


#101 smokey joe 1


You think a bus driver has the same economic interests as Brian Souter?

You think a single mother working in a call centre has the same economic interests as Sir David Murray?

You think an unemployed building worker has the same economic interests as Fred the Shred?

98

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 21:09:12
#101 Smokey,

Excellent idea.

They should fly of the shelves, especially with Comrade Broon's superb VAT cut that saved the world's financial system twice!!!
99

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 21:18:19
#103 Stan,

So what are you suggesting??

That the SNP should be like New Labour Sleaze and allow their rich pals non-dom status and so pay no tax??
Sell honours for cash and favours in kind??
Allow failed bankers to retire with millions of taxpayers money as pensions??
Allow their MP's to rack up million pound fortunes by cheating the expenses system??
Cut 10p tax rates from the poor???

Yes, New Labour Sleaze and Corruption for the working man??

Don't make me laugh!!!
100

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 21:22:15
Stan,

And on the subject of good socialists, how are New Labour Sleaze and Corruption's plans for flogging off the Royal Mail coming along???

Will Our Dear Leader need the Tory Boys votes to get it through parliament???

Do tell!!
101

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 21:30:11
103
Stan Butler.
This is not about personal gain, Stanley ,it is about what is best for Scotland as a nation.
I would gladly pay more if the money being spent was for the benefit for Scotland and her people instead of being wasted to feed labour pigs at westmidden and billion pound projects south of the border.
102

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 21:31:57
Well, I am not very impressed at being banned again. This time strangely enough I never even insulted anyone with colourful language. I cannot even remember what I posted earlier today that would have caused offense to the moderator nor any other poster.

103

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 21:33:54
On topic, I heard a little of the exchange at lunch in the office on the radio. Looking forward to FMQ tonight as it sounded like Gray had another poor day.

I cannot recall him landing a single point in months.
104

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 21:34:55
108
Alasdair Tumac.
They just pick an anti union posters IP address from a hat and ban it.
Might be me next.
105

Jimmy Le Pie,

07/05/2009 21:38:07
#108 Alasdair,

Have you been upsetting our resident censor/statistician/internet guru/website owner Paddy O'Poison??

Watch out for the Met arriving at your hoose and shooting you as only the Met know how!!
106

Mèths,

07/05/2009 21:42:08
The mods won't respond to my calls. See if this paper goes down the tubes? I won't give a to­ss.
107

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 21:43:18
Did anyone see the police medic at the G20 hitting a guy over the head with a truncheon, I wonder if he dropped his baton and then gave the poor guy medical assistance.
108

Mèths,

07/05/2009 21:46:46
113

He hit him with his lunch - truncheon meat.
109

Mèths,

07/05/2009 21:47:27
I'm getting bored with this rag. Any idea how the shares are doing?
110

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 21:53:52
115
Mèths.
Last I seen they were going down faster than the leaked radio active waste from a nu clear sub in the clyde.
111

,

07/05/2009 21:54:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
112

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 21:57:21
111Jimmy Le Pie, 07/05/2009 21:38:07
#108 Alasdair,

Have you been upsetting our resident censor/statistician/internet guru/website owner Paddy O'Poison??

Watch out for the Met arriving at your hoose and shooting you as only the Met know how!!

==========================

You may be onto something their. I did make a comment to him last night about lacking a sense of humour. Surely he is aware of the fact. Like not having any friends.

113

Observer,,

Glasgow 07/05/2009 21:59:33
Oh damn it ! I read a reference to the ''Clash'' thread. I thought there was an interesting article in the Hootsman. At last at last ! But alas not.

103 Stan stop being silly - Salmond puts Scotland's interests before those of the Union (that he doesn't want to be a part of). D'oh. It's got hee haw to do with David Murray.
114

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 22:01:49
Breaking News

The sh!t is hitting the fan on cabinet ministers expenses including Brown and it is not the 1st of July
yet.
Labour are fioked.,
115

Stan Butler,

07/05/2009 22:15:56
#119 Observer

Scotland doesn't have interests.

The Scottish people have interests.

And what those interests are is determined by their class, not their nationality.

116

Brianwci,

07/05/2009 22:18:39
Party leaders 'clash'?

No, Iain barks loudly and often, Alex says down boy, good boy. Ian sits, gently panting, quite pleased with his efforts.

Andy looks vexed, with 'large bone stuck up artichoke' expression. End of story. No clash.
117

Stan Butler,

07/05/2009 22:29:53

#120 smokey joe 1

Are you referring to the Torygraph reporting on MP's expenses?

It looks like the Tory supporting paper (that's the Conservative Party) which has always been a strong advocate of law and order has paid for information about MP's expenses. Information that has been stolen. The person selling the information had been asking for whoever bought it to indemnify him against any legal expenses (estimated at a potential £1 million) and this is thought to be the reason why no newspaper had purchased it before now.

It is said that the Telegraph will be publishing details about MPs from all parties but are starting with Labour. I have my doubts.
118

,

07/05/2009 22:35:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
119

,

07/05/2009 22:38:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
120

,

07/05/2009 22:42:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
121

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 23:00:31
123
Stan Butler. NO
BBC Headline.

122

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 23:02:15
Enlighten yourself Stanley.
Have a wee peek.

http://tinyurl.com/dll4pb
123

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 23:06:02
The audience is now laughing at Iain Gray,.
124

,

07/05/2009 23:12:11
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Reason:
125

Conan the Librarian™,

07/05/2009 23:27:56
126
Doctor Death...?

Poor.

sm753 did so much better.

Faker Englund is still up for grabs.

126

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 23:33:03
Well,

Support for the Labour party seemed a thin on the ground tonight in their heartland

Next time they will make sure the audience are able to submit their claps for Ian Gray by postal submission.

It seems only via the Royal Mail do labour seem to have many supporters.
127

,

07/05/2009 23:34:07
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Reason:
128

smokey joe 1,

07/05/2009 23:34:59
130
Doctor Death
Cant afford a new TV, saving for a bath plug.

129

,

07/05/2009 23:35:21
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130

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 23:36:10
Now watching FMQ's I am have just developed one of those famous "Unionists Cringe"

I am cringing for Ian Gray. He makes John Major seem charismatic.
131

,

07/05/2009 23:36:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
132

­­,

The Rulling Class - can kiss my ass..., 07/05/2009 23:36:57
#121 Stan Butler,

The ruling class has moved the goalposts since your time "On the Busses" Stan.

They now get to pick both teams.

True to form though - They forgot about Scotland.




133

IainGlasgow,

07/05/2009 23:38:34
#132

Yes I think this may well be the day Scottish Labour can be pronounced dead if the audience reaction is any measure and no chance of a tory reincarnation.
134

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 23:38:36
Doctor Death,

I appreciate your sense of humour but lets be honest Ian Gray's support and credibility are Helixing(3D Spiral) out of control.

Did I get that right?
135

IainGlasgow,

07/05/2009 23:41:19
#140

7% (and probably still falling) I believe. Was Margaret Thatcher's rating as PM in Scotland ever that low?
136

Conan the Librarian™,

07/05/2009 23:41:22
133
Sorry, I assumed that you were "doing" obscure Marx Brothers Characters.
sm753's latest name is extremely obscure.

He wins.
137

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 23:46:23
Conan,

Is Dr Death the new name for SMee or Rufus?

138

­­,

Ragnar Danneskjold, 07/05/2009 23:50:55
#142 Conan the Librarian

Faking Obscure, and not entirely compatible with a slavishly compliant tool of the Unionist establishment.
139

­­,

The Shite Miner, 07/05/2009 23:56:51
Smee's new alter ego ;

A Discordian anarchist, he fights the Illuminati from a golden submarine, the Leif Ericson. The Leif Ericson was supposedly designed and built by himself, stolen from the United States Navy, or a gift from the Mafia. Perhaps none of these stories are true, because Hagbard is a notorious prankster and liar (telling one character not to trust anyone with the initials H.C.). Despite its size, the equivalent of five city blocks long with a three story high conning tower, it has so far remained undetected.

He has a Norwegian mother and an Italian(sicilian) father, and physically resembles Anthony Quinn. In a section printed in the introductions of Vols. I and II of the trilogy, and not reprinted in the single volume compilation, the narrator mentions that he has a raft of Irish relatives in Ohio named McGee and Marlowe. Wilson also implies in The Historical Illuminatus Chronicles that Hagbard is the n-great nephew of one Sigismundo Celine.

He speaks Norwegian, Italian, English, German, Latin, Greek and Swahili. He graduated Harvard with the somewhat strange double major of contract law and naval engineering.

A former naturalized United States citizen, Hagbard supposedly relinquished his citizenship after representing a Mohawk reservation in court against the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
140

Alasdair Tumac,

07/05/2009 23:58:41
144
­­,Ragnar Danneskjold

You could be the Scotsman comments page version of Prince when he changed his name to the heiroglyph Ank.

No need for an joke about people who use symbols as I believe they are known as Ankers.

Maybe you are like Boy George.....Comma Chameleon....You come and Go.....

No more dire 80's music references.
141

Alasdair Tumac,

08/05/2009 00:02:53

­­,The Shiote Miner,

I googled the Hagbard moniker and read the Wiki page yesterday but today I have not noted him making an appearance.
142

­­,

08/05/2009 00:05:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

............. Dire 80's music references.
143

smokey joe 1,

08/05/2009 00:06:22
Dr Death
Is that Ian Gray standing in front of you? Or behind you

http://tinyurl.com/cjmphx
144

Alasdair Tumac,

08/05/2009 00:07:19
148
­­,08/05/2009 00:05:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

............. Dire 80's music references.

======================

I was just a bairn in the 80's I can hold my head up knowing I never followed the fashion. Can you?
145

Alasdair Tumac,

08/05/2009 00:09:29
148
­­,08/05/2009 00:05:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

............. Dire 80's music references.

================

I did laugh at that one.
146

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2009 00:10:40
144

Hey comma, long time no see.

147
Embarrassed perhaps?
147

­­,

The Shite Miner, 08/05/2009 00:11:17
147 Alasdair x2 etc..

Bwoken Pwommisses thread...

13 Hagbard Celine,07/05/2009 07:09:08
1

"I wonder what Sarah Boyack said when London Labour effectively pulled the plug on the Peterhead Carbon Capture"

She probably said

"Thank goodness we're not handing tens of millions to BP and SSE so that they can build a plant which uses no UK technology at all, and which produces power at a cost which will never be competitive in the market."

Got it yet?
148

­­,

08/05/2009 00:14:36
#152 Conan the Librarian™,

Greetings Conan...I was rummaging in my computer and found an old Hootsmon sign in link.
149

­­,

08/05/2009 00:22:23
#150 Alasdair Tumac

Never quite got over Bowie killing off Ziggy...too depressed to follow fasion after that.

You are not on the lookout for a pair of 2nd hand platform boots by any chance?
150

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2009 00:26:33
154
,
When I rummage in my computer, I remember when I could understand how they worked.
151

­­,

08/05/2009 00:36:57
#156 Conan the Librarian™,

When I am able to remember...I get all nostalgic for the days when I could remember at will.
152

­­,

08/05/2009 00:43:29
#150 Alasdair Tumac

WARNING...Cryptic 80's music reference at #155.

Off the scale on the Direometer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX7cv6pZbAg
153

Conan the Librarian™,

08/05/2009 01:12:26
157
Will? That b'stard...we all used to fire at him.
154

,

08/05/2009 12:18:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
155

redcliffe62,

08/05/2009 14:51:46
has gray found any more apprentices to use to back up his flimsy case? never let the facts get in the way of labour lies and deception.
156

Richard Lionheart,

08/05/2009 17:41:46
Iain Gray is Gordon Brown’s prototype human/android. He uses hi tech computer technology to be present in the debating chamber to take on Wee Eck.

If I’m wrong then both Gordon Brown and Iain Gray are deluded!

How many times does he have to hear£500million of Labour cuts to know that it is ludicrous to try to blame the SNP for the economic downturn and job losses in Scotland? Especially when Gordon Brown is going round saying that this is happening in every country in the world.

What more can we expect from a former transport minister who has a new railway station built with no Toilets and Forgets to have Trains timetabled To Stop at it!

We will soon learn if Iain Gray is to stand for the Westminster seat in order to run for the Labour leadership when Gordon Brown goes.

Does he have the brass neck to try it?
157

steve52,

Kinfauns 09/05/2009 23:24:39
Ian Grey on question time was a total emarrasment.....all he could do was attack the SNP. He stuck up for that liar Gordon Brown bragging that bhe single handidly won the glenrothes by election......failed to mention he lied his face off. He promised to take energy companies to court if the did not lower their prices.....then went back to that their cash trough laughing up his sleeve.

Oh and for all you thick Labour supporters claiming that the SNP blaim everything on Westminster........you lot are still blaming the Tories for anything that goes wrong.....how many years ago were they last in power?

 

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