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Want to lobby the First Minister? Send a £10,000 cheque to the SNP

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Published Date: 02 September 2007
By MURDO MACLEOD
POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT
THE SNP was last night plunged into a cash-for-access row after a Scotland on Sunday investigation revealed the party is selling time with First Minister Alex Salmond and senior ministers in return for payments worth thousands of pounds.
SNP chiefs are charging companies almost £10,000 a time for a series of highly prized meetings with Salmond and other senior party figures at the party's conference in Aviemore next month. A private dinner with finance secretary John Swinney is also being touted, with seats being charged at up to £950, swelling the party coffers by as much as £42,500.

A Scotland on Sunday reporter, posing as a public affairs consultant with clients in the energy sector, yesterday contacted a senior SNP conference official with responsibility for organising the event.

The official declared that companies which stump up the cash will not only be able to listen to ministers, but will also be able to put their case to them and discuss their plans.

The revelations last night prompted accusations the SNP was taking cash in return for access to ministers. Opposition parties claimed the SNP was effectively "selling the First Minister's time" to boost its coffers.

The SNP defended its methods, saying they are no different from those of other parties.

The details of the SNP's fundraising bid were laid out in a 'Commercial Opportunities Pack', which the SNP has sent to companies, trade associations and charities. Eight so-called 'Premier Fringe Events' are on offer, at which either Salmond or the deputy leader, Nicola Sturgeon, are booked to speak. Businesses are invited to pay between £8,500 and £9,500 to sponsor the event.

Our undercover reporter was told by Ian McCann, the SNP's chief clerk, that while Salmond's events had already been booked up, other ministers were still available. McCann said the Energy Minister, Jim Mather, the Cabinet Secretary Richard Lochhead, and the Environment Minister, Mike Russell, could offer a speech. He added: "It is an opportunity to sort of set out your stall as to what you do and who you are and such like and there is chance to discuss that with the politicians and the delegates as well."

The party is also offering a private dinner with Swinney on the opening day of the conference. Its pack declares: "We offer this opportunity to all corporate businesses to join him and other SNP parliamentarians... to discuss any topic." McCann added: "It is a good opportunity for people to hear what our plans are."

The SNP declares in its pack that it "cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship". And asked whether he could arrange a one-to-one meeting with Salmond, McCann said he could not. But he added: "If people are up there as observers for a couple of days, there is a fair chance they can just buttonhole him at any point and say we are here or we are doing this fringe meeting, nice to meet you, etc etc."

The former health minister, Labour MSP Andy Kerr, said: "It looks like cash for access. The SNP is essentially selling the First Minister and ministers' time at their party conference, and the profits are going into their party funds. Government ministers' time should not be for sale. And the SNP should not be profiting from their government status."

A spokesman for the Scottish Lib Dems said:

"If they are granting access to ministers then they are sailing very close to the wind. We have learnt the lesson from Tony Blair over 'cash for honours' that any perception of inappropriate behaviour by government ministers will be harshly punished by voters. "

Margo MacDonald, the former Nationalist MSP who became an independent after falling out with the party, said: "No company should be able to buy the services of the First Minister or his deputy and that is what is happening in this case. It's trying to buy their time. Scotland is a small country and the government has to be very careful about allowing themselves to be influenced by companies, and that is how it will be seen. I'm very, very disappointed by this.

"I know I have my disagreements with Alex Salmond, but I thought he had been doing really well until now and I thought his ministers were doing pretty well too."

The row comes a year after the SNP attacked Labour over similar cash-for-access claims after it emerged Labour was also selling access to party leaders.

Westminster's Public Administration Select Committee is preparing to conduct an inquiry into the lobbying industry.

One member of the PASC, Gordon Prentice MP, said last night: "Over the years there has been increasing concern about the activities of lobbyists who seek to influence political parties.

"This question of lunches and dinners at party political conferences is one area which our inquiry will look at. There is nothing wrong with lobbyists, businessmen and pressure groups seeking to make their views known to ministers and politicians. The question is about transparency so that everyone knows what is going on and that it is above board."

An SNP spokesperson said: "This ludicrous and contrived story is entirely without foundation. Sponsored fringe events quite properly provide SNP staff support in terms of catering, publicity in the conference brochure, a venue for the event, and a speaker relevant to the nature of the event.

"Our conference commercial pack specifically states that the SNP cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship.

"These entirely open arrangements are available to everyone publicly in the SNP's brochure.

"When a reporter tried to use underhand means to ask for private access, he was given a firm rebuff by an SNP official along the lines of the policy stated in the conference material.

"All parties have events of this nature at their conferences, but we make it absolutely clear in our sponsorship pack that private meetings are not available."

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Senga Jean,

Scotland 01/09/2007 23:33:39

Why single out the SNP. All parties do it.

2

Boy Wonder,

01/09/2007 23:42:24

#1. Senga Jean ... because it suits Hootsmon Publications' virulent bias against the SNP to do so!

We've grown to expect this kind of thing from Murdo.

3

,

01/09/2007 23:43:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

AyrshireScot,

01/09/2007 23:44:06

So the SNP are selling places at dinners? So what? How does this differ to what every party has being doing for years. The Scotsman displays its bias yet again.
"The SNP declares in its pack that it "cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship". And asked whether he could arrange a one-to-one meeting with Salmond, McCann said he could not."
But you COULD get a meeting with Blair for money. What's the Scotsman on about?

5

walter,

01/09/2007 23:48:04

We had the Conservatives selling questions then Labour honours now the SNP access.
"Let the defence speak".

6

walter,

01/09/2007 23:50:12

It has already started.

7

,

01/09/2007 23:51:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 927646, Article id was mapped to record!
8

AyrshireScot,

01/09/2007 23:52:34

#5 Walter. No access - read the article. Just an over-priced dinner.
"The SNP declares in its pack that it "cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship". And asked whether he could arrange a one-to-one meeting with Salmond, McCann said he could not"

9

Am Balach,

Viper 01/09/2007 23:52:47

You've gone too far. Scotsman. murdo you will be slaughtered for this. This is from you guys. Who pimp themselves to Labour.

10

walter,

01/09/2007 23:58:02

McCann said he could not. But he added: "If people are up there as observers for a couple of days, there is a fair chance they can just buttonhole him at any point and say we are here or we are doing this fringe meeting, nice to meet you, etc etc."

I always read between the lines.

11

Scottish Politics,

02/09/2007 00:00:40

This is typical of the level of journalism I have come to expect from the Britsman. The SNP would be mad not to capitalise financially on the situation they now find themselves in.

Can anyone at the paper enlighten us on how much Labour have charged for similar events whilst in government? Nope, thought not.

The SNP do not have union backers to bail them out and it makes sense to charge the press etc more to attend.

12

Mallory,

02/09/2007 00:02:01

Salmond can't do titles - yet, So why the fuss?

Surel SOS has heard of fund raising lunches, 'donations' from trades unions, or rollover loans from individuals at low or nil interest?

Now if the SNP had been propped up by a bank with a limited capital base....that would be a story.

13

Gnasher,

02/09/2007 00:04:42

That was an unfriendly thing to say, am Balach. When you say "you will be slaughtered for this", what exactly did you mean?

Specifically, do you think the SoS should have suppressed the story?

14

Faye,

02/09/2007 00:05:16

He's trying to pay for Edinburgh's trams.

So what is wrong in sending a corporate company a bill to see Salmond?

What matters is that Salmond isn't influenced by the company or whoever pays that pays money. He's a canny man and certainly no patsy.

Salmond I think will do what is best for Scots, the electorate, not any individual company.

Far too many companies lobby for themselves and that isnn't always good for the electorate.

It is time there was someone independent to act as a go between to make sure their is no corporate shenanigans.

Go on Salmond, charge £10k but if there is any whiff of money for favours, your are as weil deid.

15

mesmiths,

fife 02/09/2007 00:06:28

Yet another reason why I'll never actually pay money for this rag.

16

Charles1234,

02/09/2007 00:11:33

Crikey I've seen more credible stories on Rami Okasha's blog. Is this the level of spin SoS has descended to?

SNP raises cash at conference just like, er, all the other parties do.

17

,

02/09/2007 00:19:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 927702, Article id was mapped to record!
18

Charles1234,

02/09/2007 00:20:44

Next week's exclusive from Murdo -

"Revealed: SNP's secret plan to make Scotland independent"

The week after -

"Yes. we'll arm Scots say SNP

Scotland on Sunday can exclusively reveal that the SNP plan to provide members of a Scottish army with firearms which could be used to kill people."

The week after that -

"Situations vacant. Scotland on Sunday are seeking a new political correspondent..."

19

walter,

02/09/2007 00:21:52

companies which stump up the cash will not only be able to listen to ministers, but will also be able to put their case to them and discuss their plans.

Want to put your case across then stump up the cash and you can.
If you don't produce the cash then you are not going to be able to put your case across.

Or

The row comes a year after the SNP attacked Labour over similar cash-for-access claims after it emerged Labour was also selling access to party leaders.

After years of being in opposition the SNP are realising being on the other side of the fence they have the ability of doing exactly what they complained about when others had something to offer and they did.

20

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 02/09/2007 00:26:36

Gnasher,
Yer aff yer heid. Getting slaughtered is a well-known metaphor. And, it's not a story, just a contrived headline so not really to be supressed as scoffed at for it's brass-neck misrepresentation.

Aye, this unionist rag is right at it. And have you seen the poll: "Does the SNP executive deserve to be called a 'government'? This is just pure partisan bile masquerading as journalism.

How thoroughly pathetic.

21

Charles1234,

02/09/2007 00:27:59

"The SNP have been selling more than access, they have been selling policies. There policy on public transport mysteriously changed after their donation from Brian Souter."

Really Daryll? Fancy showing me where it was in their pre-manifesto documents published in 2006?

And when the draft manifesto was produced and when the donation was made?

And when the next round of bids for bus tenders will be made?

22

Lindsey, Glasgow,

02/09/2007 00:29:06

A desperate attempt to sensationalize a non-story.

Laughable.

Biased, skewed journalism from what, in effect, is simply no more than a big over-sized tabloid.

23

Charles1234,

02/09/2007 00:30:19

Walter at #19. Which bit of "private" are you having difficulty with?

24

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 02/09/2007 00:34:18

Cash for articles?

How much does Murdo MacLeod get to write part political propaganda instead of news? Would he sell his own granny for promotion? We need an investigation.

25

Statsman,

02/09/2007 00:38:04

Where's the story in this? The SNP appear to do things by the book and get smeared anyway.

Dreadful article.

26

,

02/09/2007 00:41:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

walter,

02/09/2007 00:44:08

There is a certain newspaper whose title is the same as the large orb we see in the daylight hours that prints a Scottish version which diverse from the English version.
On the 15 June 1996 this paper printed a headline in it's English version that was derogatory to the Scots.
I have never bought or read that paper since and that includes their web version as the paper offended me at that time.
It amazes me that so many people who are offended by this paper (as they repeatedly state) continue to read it.

28

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 02/09/2007 00:52:49

Walter, have you never heard of Sun Tzu?

He said (in translation): “Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.”

In Scotland many of us know that Scotland on Sunday is the enemy and we need to know what they enemy's thinking. However, in some ways you are correct and the publication has been hemorrhageing readers for a long time now.

Last thing, there's a difference between paying for the paper and reading it.

29

Guga II,

Rockall 02/09/2007 00:54:49

I wonder, does Murdo MacLeod get paid by the Hootsmon AND the New Labour numpties for writing all this anti-SNP propaganda? Or is he just waving his party membership card about again?

Our "undercover reporter" indeed. It's a pity you didn't do a bit of undercover reporting on the lies and corruption in the New Labour numpty party.

30

CRAGman,

Capital city Edinburgh 02/09/2007 00:59:24

The SNP are right - they are "no different" from other parties. Says it all really.

31

walter,

02/09/2007 01:10:04

#23

The SNP declares in its pack that it "cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship". And asked whether he could arrange a one-to-one meeting with Salmond, McCann said he could not. But he added: "If people are up there as observers for a couple of days, there is a fair chance they can just buttonhole him at any point and say we are here or we are doing this fringe meeting, nice to meet you, etc etc."

Now how does some one who is offering £10.000 read between the lines of that statement? nug nug wink wink pay the money and meet the man.

They are not going to say openly "yes if you pay you can see the man in a private meeting" but like all political parties they will let you know.
You may be in denial that the SNP are no different from any other political party but I am sorry they are not.

32

Auckland Arab,

02/09/2007 01:10:22

This "story" is a blatant smear. Utter cr*p.

This is a perfectly legitimate way of raising party funds.

Let's just remind ourselves of the parties that have sold out to big business interests, union interests, cash for questions, cash for honours, etc etc etc etc.

No wonder people have no faith in politicians anymore when they are bombarded with this propaganda and lies.

33

Auckland Arab2,

02/09/2007 01:14:54

Walter you are a prat.

This is a pefectly legitimate and LEGAL way of raising party funds that ALL political parties use.

Just remind me of the parties involved in the following:

cash for questions, cash for honours, cash for citizenship?

Or the ones in hock to the unions or big business?

Disgraceful smear story by this rag.

34

Edward,

02/09/2007 01:19:49

Oh dear, Labour must be getting desperate to have Murdo Macleod write up this piece of garbage
Lets look at some salient points.
First of all the piece of gutter journalism starts with bold headlines, then McLeod states amounts, but is not clear as to where he got these figures. The only actual figures that can be attributed to an SNP brochure is regards to sponsoring an event and not actual payment for meeting any ministers, so a clear and blatant twisting of the truth!
Macleod even admits that the brochures clearly state that they ‘cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers’. Towards the end of this piece of trash reporting, Macleod again quotes ‘"Our conference commercial pack specifically states that the SNP cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship’
It’s a shame that Margo Macdonald lent her name to this piece, presuming of course that she was interviewed!, likewise the presumed spokesman of the Liberal Democrats. As for Andy Kerr’s comments, its noted that he doesn’t actually check what he is being asked to comment on anyway, so no big surprise.
All in all it’s the paper that comes out as a sordid peddler of gutter journalism. I have no doubt that Labour will be calling an election soon, as this is typical of the type of dirty tricks, that they have imported from the US

35

Edward,

02/09/2007 01:23:23

#31 Walter
You really must be fairly niave (Im being kind here) to not appreciate that Murdo Macleod is actually providing a factual story here
Macleod couldnt get a good story, so he has twisted facts, to juice it up

36

,

02/09/2007 01:38:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 927817, Article id was mapped to record!
37

Name,

02/09/2007 02:16:03

Next they'll be a story about how Alex Salmond has been asked to pose for Page 3 for £10,000 to reveal his man boobs...

38

walter,

02/09/2007 02:16:07

How can they believe anybody with half a brain would give this tabloid nonsense any credence whatsoever.

You are commenting on it.

39

W Smith,

Middle East 02/09/2007 03:05:44

Isn't Salmond behaving exactly like Tony Blair?

SNP look like the Tartan New Labour and now the Scotsman is a 'unionist rag'.

Funny how unionists can't get a word in edgeways thanks to the SNP bloggers.

40

Anonym,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 03:36:16

How does commenting on an article equate with giving credence to it, Walter?

W Smith... did you just 'get a word in edgeways' or what?

Tartan New Labour? Now that is funny...

41

Paul Mac,

Deepest Scotland 02/09/2007 04:47:56

You're all having a laugh!

Not even if John 'Rent-a-Quote' Swinney GAVE me 950quid would I have dinner with him.

But, ten grand for dinner with Alex Salmond ... now there's an interesting meal. However, as for him posing for Page 3? Pass the sauce Alex, will ya?

42

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 05:03:26

The SNP is caught, hand in the cookie jar, snouts in the trough; banged to rights.
You can tell by the odious vitriol being spouted by the SNP supporters here that they are on the defensive, that Alec Salmond is no different to Robert Mugabe.
How long has it taken for the power greedy snake oil salesman of the SNP to reveal their true motives?
One hundred and ten days, less?

43

Keren, It's time,

02/09/2007 05:08:35

Complete non-story - sad Unionist rag.

44

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 05:13:48

Keren # 49

It's a Tory rag. The intention of the Scotsman is to get the Tories in by the back door using the SNP to degrade the Labour vote.

45

howyoudoingboy;,

02/09/2007 06:08:48

Can any of the S.N.P Drones....Explain why anyone would "pay between £8,500 and £9,500 to sponsor the event." When they could perfectly properly make a donation to the S.N.P without having any personal contact with any S.N.P Party leaders whatsoever.

And what is the difference between having "private access," or having a one to one chat with a party leader standing at Bar, sitting down for lunch etc..etc.
Especially when it is known you have paid up to £9,500 for the privilege. An amount beyond the reach of your average Scot.

Influence pedaling is a more subtle affair than the pro S.N.P Drones care to admit. But if it was wrong for the 'Other Parties. then it is surely wrong for the S.N.P.

Also to accuse the 'Scotsman' of divers crimes for investigating an issue the S.N.P spent months and years shouting about from the roof tops. Is in reality an attempt to Censor the press.

Nobody is compelled to read 'The Scotsman' if the editorial content and Political stance is not to your liking. Go elsewhere for your reading material this forum is not 'Owned' by the 'Nationalists' and is open to any and all comments. Much as that may surprise you!

46

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 02/09/2007 06:08:56

Snouts in the trough ,,,,,,,,,,,, power corrupting already

47

Flabskin,

Badfort 02/09/2007 06:17:55

£10k for access to Alex Salmond? How pathetic is that?

If you're a chum and professional advisor to Nu-Lab and Flash Gordon, you can get over £3 million in public funds for your business:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007...

Piers Pottinger, deputy chairman of Chime Communications, said: "Her political work is completely separate from her professional work at OLR."

You don't know whether to laugh or sh1t...

48

Shabina,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 06:36:27

Check out SOS advertisers and see how many good stories they print about them.... Just for starters.

49

Paul Voltaire,

02/09/2007 06:39:07

Ten grand is rather steep!
I would be expecting some champagne and dancing girls for that price.

50

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 06:39:35

This is typical of the SNP selling Scotland short, they should be charging much more!

51

avrom,

edinburgh 02/09/2007 06:40:26

Boycot the Scotsman.

52

GD,

Stop I want to get off 02/09/2007 06:43:57

Once again The Scotsman stoops lower than a snakes belly as it strives to deliver its ultra-biased opinions.

53

Born to roughneck,

In the paper shop not buying this pish 02/09/2007 06:44:44

Sad story from the Hootsman. Glad I've stop buying this drivel.
Keep up the good work Eck.

54

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 06:55:44

The article itself isn't biased or dreadful for that matter it merely points out that you can pay a couple of weeks wages to sponsor an event. If the SNP supporters don't like it, ignore it but it will not go away, it is political expediency, that's all.

55

Flabskin,

Badfort 02/09/2007 06:55:53

Piers Pottinger, deputy chairman of Chime Communications, said: "Her political work is completely separate from her professional work at OLR."

"So, Gordon, you dear fat repulsive slug you, let's talk about how we're going to win the next election...

OK, Harriet, and now let's talk about this £150k contract that's up for grabs in your Department... Oh - ha ha! Don't let me forget to take my head off and replace it with this other one I carry around in my bag for the purppose..."

56

howyoudoingboy;,

02/09/2007 07:13:47

Perhaps it would be in Scotland's best interests if the Scottish Parliamentary Standards Commissioner was to launch an inquiry. If not the Police.

With any conclusion's being published This would clear the air and help to restore 'Trust' to the political process in Scotland.

57

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 07:15:40

Was that a red light I saw in the window at Bute House last night and wee Nicola looking damn fine in a pair of fishnets?

58

Peasnbarley,

Glasgow 02/09/2007 07:34:20

Welcome to the world of Government you rabble of SNP supporters. In opposition you have used every underhand trick in the book to take the headlines away from Labours excellent handling of the economy, reduction of interest rates and unemployment by the constant media trickle of scandal stories.

Not one of these stories where true.

Even after two years of constant press harrassment nationally (started by an SNP MP) Tony Blair was given a clean bill of health in the "Cash for Honours" scandal.

The police and the prosecution services stated unequivocally there was no case to answer.

The SNP were part of the process of encouraging the press to hound government in this underhand way, now you can reap the consequences.

I will not be surprised if the the journalist had a hidden tape recorder and will be able to prove his story verbatim.

59

Lapidate,

Musselburgh 02/09/2007 07:35:47

Bit of a non-story this one. Corporate sponsorship (in one form or another) is a fact of life for most party conferences. At least this is fairly up-front.

60

mr chips,

02/09/2007 07:45:29

You would have to be a retard to buy this so called news paper.

61

Jimmy Wygge,

Brigadoon Central 02/09/2007 07:52:26

Does that mean that Edinburgh punters huv tae pay up front to lobby SNP Cooncillors as well! How many bawbees exactly?

They don't return emails, telephone calls - ban deputations tae the Cooncil...

"No Comment" comes the ripost!

PS: That wee 'Laird' needs to get his heid doon - he's never off bletherin' on the Scotsman sites - mind you Madrid is a genuine 24 city I suppose, or doesn't he huv any mates - only cronies!

62

donal mcdonald,

Fife 02/09/2007 07:54:01

Has the S.N.P issued any statement over these allegations.
For if they are true then it is indeed shameful. And if not true they need to be rebutted a.s.a.p.

Several thousands is not a small amount for most people. And the idea a small amount of money is to be ignored unlike a large amount of money. Is to be deplored.

And as for attacking the messenger for bringing an unwelcome message is a terrible indictment on the Morality of some of the individuals commenting on this article.

63

pressure,

scotland 02/09/2007 07:55:26

Lapidate this is not a non story it is deplorable. We have a Government for corporate Scotland.

How does a community group or anti poverty organisation get to speak to the man who already lives the high life off their taxes.... ? another action that shows they are the most right wing government Scotland has ever seen.

64

Jim P,

Netherlands 02/09/2007 07:58:30

I've spoken to Alex Salmond on several occasions, once on the street - disnae cost anything to speak to him. In fact, send me 10,000 pounds and ye can speak tae me!

65

jdships,

02/09/2007 08:00:13

61 CJO

A common sense comment at last !!
Good post

67. mr chips
You would have to be a retard to buy this so called news paper.

What exactly do you mean by " retard " ?

66

A Scott,

Glasgow 02/09/2007 08:04:51

This is legal, open and common practice. I am not aware of the Noth Briton using an "undercover reporter" in the past and look forward to them using one in the future against the Unionist parties.
As for "Ego" Macdonald any excuse to slag off her old party and wee Eck in particular. Hell have no fury like an egotist scorned.

67

Scotsgait,

Scotland's new internet community 02/09/2007 08:09:36

"Has the S.N.P issued any statement over these allegations.
For if they are true then it is indeed shameful. And if not true they need to be rebutted a.s.a.p."

According to the article, they have:

"An SNP spokesperson said: "This ludicrous and contrived story is entirely without foundation. Sponsored fringe events quite properly provide SNP staff support in terms of catering, publicity in the conference brochure, a venue for the event, and a speaker relevant to the nature of the event.

"Our conference commercial pack specifically states that the SNP cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship.

"These entirely open arrangements are available to everyone publicly in the SNP's brochure.

"When a reporter tried to use underhand means to ask for private access, he was given a firm rebuff by an SNP official along the lines of the policy stated in the conference material.

"All parties have events of this nature at their conferences, but we make it absolutely clear in our sponsorship pack that private meetings are not available.""

68

Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 08:13:59

This must be the least sensational political story for years?
Like every other political party it encourages individuals and groups to donate to the party.
IF, this allegegation has any truth to it then all will be revealed when the SNP publishes its annual accounts?
Otherwise, this alleged SOS scoop is simply another
attempt to mislead its readers and most important of all, sell MORE copies!
I look forward to something a bit more original and really sensational from SOS? Read all about it:
"Salmond secret England supporter!" or:
"Salmond born in Surrey!"

Lachie Todd

69

Pocket Dictionary,

02/09/2007 08:18:30

It's a headline to sell the paper to the undecided who wander into newsagents and base their purchase on a headline.

Same tactics used by their pals at Talk 107 - jump on a bandwagon (school closures) to improve ratings.

70

donal mcdonald,

Fife 02/09/2007 08:19:57

#75

I meant a statement separate from The Scotsman's article. In their own words and not through a third party.

71

roan dddd,

Death to the Scotsman 02/09/2007 08:23:41

When will the SNP start dragging the scotsman through the courts for their libel. Id really like to see this tardly litlte rag gfo under. Circulation has fallen and it would be fantastic to see the like of Murdo on the dole.

72

pellets,

edinburgh 02/09/2007 08:28:43

such bad reporting is a scandal - i will stop buying the scotsman and SOS from today

73

Justy,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 08:30:38

If the SNP wants my support and vote they can send me a cheque for £10,000.

Justy.

74

jenny,

somewhere east of edinburgh 02/09/2007 08:33:34

If they're short of cash they could sponsor crisps or furniture like footballers do.

75

Calum Crubag,

02/09/2007 08:38:32

a Mhurchaidh, nair ort. Tha lan fhios agad gur bheil an dol a-mach seo a' tachairt anns a h-uile partaidh. Cha robh fios agam gun robh thu cho leam-leat.

Shame that Gael Murdo is indulging in political Pravda-ism for his money now.

76

Spotter,

02/09/2007 08:41:26

donal macdonald the words carried in the article are the SNP words and they damn the story

"Our conference commercial pack specifically states that the SNP cannot and will not offer meetings with ministers, the party leadership or senior party personnel in exchange for sponsorship.

"These entirely open arrangements are available to everyone publicly in the SNP's brochure. "
END OF AND NO DRAMA

BUT

THE SOS would have spoken to MCCANN during the week - undercover reporter nothing poor daaft Murdo would have picked up the phone and asked a few questions --
he'd then have left it as late as possible yesterday to get reaction from the SNP in the hope they could not get a coherent response (which the SNP did do )

but hever mind he'd still have pushed the dishonest headline - that stains his soul - but hopes to have impressed his colleague in the press bar --

slainte Murdo
-- they'll be 30 pieces of stitch up silver for you in this months salary
doesn't matter who the story is about it has to be honest
the reporter will be having a wee buzz to himself but if ever there was a newspaper reporting on Newspapers headline could be
"SOS SEX UP HEADLINE DESPITE FACTS AND TRUTH"

77

Boy Wonder,

02/09/2007 08:43:37

Anyone noticed that AM2 hasn't posted here yet?? Surprising isn't it? He's usually the first to pour scorn over the SNP. You think he realises this is just another Murdo snow job?

78

GrahamH,

02/09/2007 08:45:33

Let's get it into perspective.

At £10,000 a pop, will take 68,000 meetings to pay the starting price for the useless Edinburgh tramline that the SNP Executive rubber stamped!

79

James Johnston,

Dumfries 02/09/2007 08:53:12

Same old trough, different snouts.

It is remarkable how naive the SNP supporters are about Salmond and his people. The idea that only other parties have vices and the SNP is all virtue is a bit less than grown up.

I would be the last person to defent Blair and his cabal but I can't see the difference between this and cash for honours. Can we expect a full scale investigation into these allegations?

80

Spotter,

02/09/2007 08:56:43

AM2
this would only have been a story had the SOS done a proper investigation rather than 2 phone calls
they should have paid the SNP 10K and see what access their "undercover" murdo would have got

but they probably reckoned it would be 10K for no story -much as they have :-)

and AM2 - are you sayin that cash and peerages do not change hands at Westminster -- I ask this to test how savvy you are
:-)

81

Senga Jean,

02/09/2007 08:56:49

#87 GrahamH...you are really amusing. A ten year old could lie better. Your age? (read up on how democracy works and see that the opposition forced the continuation of theTRAMS)

82

Dennis,

North Isles 02/09/2007 08:58:42

Good for the SOS that they have uncovered this blatant piece of hypocrisy by the SNP.

SNP drones swarm to the defensive - so it must be true then.

83

Dennis Skinner,

02/09/2007 09:02:06

What a bunch of bores and obsessives! Get a life.

84

Spotter,

02/09/2007 09:06:55

hey dennis
following you logic Kenny Ritchey on death row USA, and his friends against the death penalty are swarming to the defensive and say his innocent

thus Dennis you'd say it must be true his is guilty

in teh dennis view if you say you are innocent you are guilty

dennis are you guilty of any heinous crimes i ask :-)

85

JimC,

Kilmarnock 02/09/2007 09:10:51

The Scotsman sinks to a new low today. As such I expect and demand a list of dinners and sponsors at the NU-Labour's conference and the costs of said dinners and sponsorship etc.

86

Michael Grieve,

Hawick 02/09/2007 09:13:38

When an SNP MP made the allegation of cash for Honors he set there party up as whiter than white and now we know the truth.

87

Norbert Dentressangle,

02/09/2007 09:15:37

Hahahaha I'm not trawling my way through the 97 + posts above but the article is a joke, apologies if I'm repeating what no doubt many have already said.

Why would SoS need an undercover reporter to discover what was already printed and sent out to companies.

This is a party conference sponsorship opportunity, not B&B at Bute house, and speaking as someone who's been involved in major sponsorship deals, that is a bloody good price to get access to the First Minister.

Without giving too much away, I remember a former public utility company paying £35,000 to host a two hour lunch where their chairman would be seated with Donald Dewar and his team. Great value Also interesting to note that Salmond's table was full.


Hahahahaha what a non story.

88

T. MacIntosh,

Toronto 02/09/2007 09:16:32

What is the whine about now:)?
There are many ways to raise party funds all of which are ethical and legal and the payers are happy to pay.
Even the trash talk of this newspaper is legal on constitutional grounds as long as they stick to public figures.A private citizen can skin them alive in a libel suit.There is a trash tv show here called cnn news I would put this raggedy muffin journalism in the same tramp steamer as.The other chimpanzee propaganda cages are not much better at terms of bias and fact ignorance.

89

Sceptic of Midlothian,

Midlothian 02/09/2007 09:17:09

Really, Murdo, you must get a grip. This is your most pathetic attempt ever to get at Alex Salmond; the article itself gives it all away. I suppose that's what you called evenhandedness. When are you going to grow up, support the WINNER of the recent election, and try to understand that subject to basic decencies, politics is all about power and influence, not some airy-fairy utopia which exists in a vacuum. In party-conference week, Eck is doing party business. They need money - they ALL need money.

Next week it will be the Scottish GOVERNMENT. What are the acronym writers going to do?! ?SGERAD, SGDPEA, SGDD, SGDELLE...... nightmare! perhaps we should all learn gaelic.

90

JimC,

Kilmarnock 02/09/2007 09:19:44

Try looking at Labour costs on the official website or their official brochure here
http://www.labouronline.org/dev.labour.org.uk/Labour/www....

O and did I forget to say that Brown might just take a tour of the stalls where you might get a chance to buttonhole him?

91

Spotter,

02/09/2007 09:20:33

well radio scot press review ignored this tale
although tehy covered 2 others in the SOS

This is really what we all thought a one man three phone calls story

shame on you Murdo hope the editor pats your head and gives you a bone -- poodle man

92

Flabskin,

Badfort 02/09/2007 09:22:27

Well, the positive side to all this is that following on from the comments of MSP Andy Kerr and 'a Lib-Dem spokesman', clearly Nu-Lab and the Lib Dems will no longer be accepting any kind of sponsorship at their future conferences.

93

Rony,

Fife 02/09/2007 09:24:44

The last post.

Your bias has gone to far this time. Your paper is no longer worth viewing for serious readers.

GoodBYE

94

Flabskin,

Badfort 02/09/2007 09:32:55

#92 James Johnston:

"I would be the last person to defent Blair and his cabal but I can't see the difference between this and cash for honours. Can we expect a full scale investigation into these allegations?"

I can think of something much cheaper and simpler.

Let's you and me get together. You give me a 'secret loan' of half a million quid that I've no intention of repaying, and I'll promise to try to get you a peerage.

Then I'll give you £10 thousand in exchange for being allowed to talk to you in public.

I promise you that you'll be able to "see the difference"

95

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 09:35:24

Wasn't it the late leader of the labour party John Smith who started this with the famous prawn cocktail offencive.

For proof that this "story" is just that a story, view the comments of the unionists only walter getting his knickers in a twist

96

inoui,

Fife 02/09/2007 09:41:18

Good ol' Alex. Inspirational. Gets my vote.

97

wee toon,

Argyll 02/09/2007 09:41:45

This fabricated drivel illustrates in spades why the Hootsmon is losing market share across the country.
Editorially rudderless & driven to printing Murdo's embarrassingly clumsy pretensions at investigative reporting, the credibility of this once fine newspaper is in shreds.

98

Conway,

East lothian 02/09/2007 09:43:55

If posters on this comments board can be held to account for slander. I dont understand why Governments dont take newspapers to court when they print trash like this. Then surley newspaper editors would have to print facts .

99

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 09:46:49

The only thing we find odd is the Scotland on Sunday reporter posing as a public affairs consultant with clients in the energy sector.
Is there something shameful about admitting to being an SoS reporter ?
There is nothing new in the article and it is common practice, in fact the SNP came out with more credit than the reporter as he was told that he couldn't get a face to face meeting with a Scottish Minister.

100

Riley Hamish,

EDINBURGH 02/09/2007 09:50:57

Oh Come on Hootsman.....this is TRULY pathetic.

Anybody remember wee Jack McCon and the labour festivities with known criminals?????

This paper is really going downhill fast !!

101

Gary McL,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 09:53:05

Murdo Macleod and SoS editors must take their readers for fools. And we would be fools to buy the newspaper itself today when they publish crass and intellectually void trash like this. They know what they are presenting as a 'scandalous truth' is no such thing. 100% blatant, misleading propaganda. Send Macleod to North Korea, he'd get a job right away.

102

Boab,

Glasgow 02/09/2007 09:55:37

Posters trying to draw a link between this and Labour and Tory sleaze - the police were involved with the 'cash for honours' scandal as it was clearly illegal while at least one Tory ex-minister went to prison. So, will Murdo MacLeod be turning over his evidence to the authorities?

If not, why not?

103

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 09:58:31

Did Eddie put Murdo up to this?
Or did Murdo think it all up, all by himself?

104

Sassenach Observer,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:01:50

Concern over "lobbying" has been around for years. All this article really shows is what many parties have learned in the past - what you criticise when in opposition will be thrown back at you when in power.

Alec Salmond would do well to listen to Margo Macdonald who, despite being a politician, does seem to have a good deal of commonsense. I have I must reveal at this stage that I have no connection with the lady other than having once seen her and Jim in the Safeways in Morningside (now a Waitrose, thanks no doubt to the power of devolved government). Worryingly I was unable to identify a single item of Scots produce in their basket - is this a story ?

I also met Jack McConnell last year in George Street and he said "hello" but I couldn't remember who he was until he had gone past. I saw that LibDem chap once but still can't remember who he is (other than he wasn't the drunken ginger one).

Maybe I will meet Alec, if Mrs Salmond ever lets him out to play. Has anyone else noticed his resemblance to Tich of "Tich and Quackers" fame ?

105

Dennis,

North Isles 02/09/2007 10:03:10

113 Methalions

Other parties may do it...but wasn't it the SNP that made all the fuss about New Labour cash for peerages (where in the end there was no case to answer). Now they are in the greenhouse - better stop throwing stones!

All the SNP posters who jammed this board with all kinds of accusations against NL of payment for patronage - are now shouting down a journalist for even daring to shine a torch into the dark corners of the SNP. Double standards??

If you SNP zealots so repudiate the notion of ever paying for the SOS/Scotsman 'rag' then why give it credence by every day using its message board?

More hypocrisy??

106

Baillie Guthrie,

02/09/2007 10:06:50

THE SCOTSMAN...

'Born in indignation, felt by Fife-born solicitor William Ritchie and customs official Charles Maclaren, at the 'unblushing subserviency' of local newspapers to the establishment, its astringent and independent voice came as a tenpenny (including 4d stamp duty) thunderclap. Change was in the air of Edinburgh, which disbanded its creaking old City Guard and filled its new Calton Hill prison, and The Scotsman, a paper of liberal ideals, pledged to 'impartiality, firmness and independence', flourished in the new age.'


R.I.P

107

Sassenach Observer,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:12:37

Forgot to mention that I will never buy this rag again. Unless it has a decent CD inside or something.

108

Media 1,

cape town 02/09/2007 10:12:37

This SNP govenment is an embarrassment to us all.

Salmond and his cronies are nothing more than rogue politicians hell bent on earning themselves a legacy as opposed to helping Scotland succeed.

This lot could potentially destory Scotland, they really could. They have already managed to brainwash some of the masses with william wallace rhetoric and other national nonsense, and off-course some of our less informed and indoctrinated fools have taken the bait.

So sad

109

Gary McL,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:16:55

#124 Dennis

The point is that there is no comparison between cash for peerages / sleaze and the dumbed down propaganda in today's SoS. None at all. Sponsorship is common to all party conferences and hidden away in the "article" was the fact that there would be no metings in exchange for sponsorship. There's a link at one post above to the Labour conference site where your firm could sponsor a dinner where the Prime Minister will be and I see nothing wrong with that. Parties have to earn money from somewhere - as long as it's open and honest, and the SNP have been just that.

Of course there's much that's good in SoS and I'm not a "zealot" to propose to the paper that their lead story should not be off-putting in the extreme, as is today's, when I will not buy the paper, when I usually do. Nothing hypocritical about that. It's just commerce - treat your readers like fools, and like #92 above, they don't like the indigestion on a Sunday morning.

110

Gary McL,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:19:55

Oops my reference re. indigestion on a Sunday should have gone to Col. Blimp at no. 109 above!

111

Sedov,

scotland 02/09/2007 10:23:00

I am not in the least surprised as I predicted all along, before the elections what the SNP were like and what they stood for. They are no more for the people of Scotland than the rest of the bosses parties. This is only the tip of the iceberg believe me. Things can only get worse.

112

jdships,

02/09/2007 10:25:03

The one big thing that has come out of this discussion is that S O S marketing must be c......g itself at the number of " readers " they are going to lose !!!!!!!!!!!


Interesting too how so called " party supporter's" of every persuasion cannot accept criticsm in any shape or form and proceed to dump the toys out the pram .

Qute amusing in a way !!

113

Scotsgait,

Scotland's new internet community 02/09/2007 10:28:49

Interesting to see the careful wording in the Beeb's review is the Scottish Sundays:

"Scotland on Sunday claims to have uncovered an SNP cash-for-access row after an undercover investigation."

Note "claims to have uncovered", not "has uncovered".....

114

Level Headed,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:29:25

£950 for a private dinner with John Swinney? - I think i'd go for a £15 take away with a couple of friends instead, much better value!

115

Brian Hill,

02/09/2007 10:34:25

'Our UNDERCOVER reporter???' What's undercover about this? The SNP are sending out brochures for God's sake. The whole matter is in the open and therefore above board.

Furthermore it's the way politics works in this country and America. Indeed fund raising dinners are taking place as we speak for all the US Presidential candidates.

Yet again Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday I must remind you that there are O' Grades, NVQs and all sorts floating about among your readers. Indeed, many of us can read without mouthing the words.

This 'UNDERCOVER reporter' drivel belongs in the Beano or the Dandy.

Media 1 ends his anti SNP comments with the words: 'So sad'.

No M1, what's sad is that Unionists like yourself are so desperate for bad news about the SNP you will jump on any 'normal' event and attempt to turn it into the corruption with which you and your party are so familiar.

116

blair,

East Lothian 02/09/2007 10:35:04

I no longer buy Scotland on Sunday. I now believe that what it prints is politically slanted.

117

Old Town Resident,

02/09/2007 10:35:21

Worrying is that PR firms behind the developers who are trying to run the country are using questionable tactics
This is a story SOS should be running
see this fortnights Private Eye re PPS
http://eh8.org.uk/caltongate_in_private_eye

118

Media 1,

cape town 02/09/2007 10:35:24

#130 Sedov

I agree, the call for independence has come on the back of a William Wallace type campaign. The SNP stirred the nations psyche by employing ancient rhetoric and false hope, packaged as a new and brighter future for Scotland under one flag. Off-course, many of our people bought into it because they were already indoctrinated from birth. What chance does a Scottish person who wears an Argentinian football strip in an attempt to go against England have of employing rational thinking in terms of independence?

The SNP have duped many, but fortunately there are those of us who are passionate enough about Scotland to stop them.

119

Edward,

02/09/2007 10:39:10

#133
Why do you come out with a crass statement like that when the fact is different
Or are you just one that doesnt actually accept facts, prefering dross

120

Edward,

02/09/2007 10:41:08

#127 Media1 Vincent
You really do talk a load of dross

121

BIG EYE,

Paisley 02/09/2007 10:42:31

Dear sirs,

I should like to apply for a job as an undercover reporter with your newspaper.

As far as I can see from today's front page story this will involve me being able to lay my hands on information that is freely available and already in the public domain, then phoning a contact who tells me precisely what it sats on the packet and that irrespective of what money changes hands you are pretty much in same position as everyone else.

My task then is to make all the above sound as deceptive and furtile as possible thereby transforming a complete non story into a three page and editorial blockbuster! Marvellous!

One slight problem with all the above, turn to the business section of the same newspaper and lo and behold this "undercover" reporter discovers a Lunch with a Government Minister, sponsored by the Scotsman, where for a fee people can have lunch with the very man.

Having discovered the above I presume the job is mine and I await your phone call or email message!

122

Level Headed,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 10:42:59

what's crass about that statement? I think you bruise a little easily Edward! I'm surprised you've survived to statement 133 given some of the stuff other posters come out with which is 100 times more offensive/deluded!

My apologies for not being in the slavish ranks of SNP admirers!, I promise to never do it again! ; )

123

Rob me blind,

Peterhead 02/09/2007 10:59:49

So that why we acant get any response from Wee eck he is our part time MP and is not responding to calls for assistance. Its time he gave up the seat in Westminster and gave us back a full time MP not a part time waste of space

124

Dennis,

North Isles 02/09/2007 11:00:55

143 AM2

Fair point

125

Calum10,

02/09/2007 11:02:18

It's not as if the owners of the Scotsman newspapers, Johnston Press, have paid big bucks themselves to lobby Labour ministers in the past..................Wait a minute......................they have.

In 2002 the Johnston Press Group directly lobbied the government minsiters over the Competition Commision and the Communication's Act, both publicly and privately.

Further in 2003 The Independent newspaper printed a story that alleged that Tony Blair had personally phoned the chief executive of Johnston Press, Tim Bowdler, to ask him to sack a troublesome news editor from his job at the Hartlepool Mail. This was dutifully done.

Quid pro quo?

Well done the SOS for making a complete @rse of itself.

126

Breezy,

Argyll 02/09/2007 11:03:39

It's no wonder that the support for independence is increasing. The people of Scotland are completely fed up with spin/lies/ garbage on the pages of our Daily and Sunday newspapers. Sadly the Blair era remains with us.

127

MI,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 11:05:36

Why pick on the SNP many ask. Well the SNP have in the past heavily criticised Labour for doing it so it's hypocritical for SNP to do it. It is the job of the press to expose such stories and give us the chance to decide if it's right or wrong.

Let's bear in mind this is Ministers not back benchers or members of an opposition party that are doing it and many of us consider it entirely inappropriate for power to be abused in this way.

128

Dennis,

North Isles 02/09/2007 11:08:01

144 Methalions

I don't see anything wrong with business gaining access to those in government - but it should be open and honest.

129

Media 1,

02/09/2007 11:08:30

#150 Methalions: With my one vote.

Thankfully there is more like minded me's than there is you's.....

Say no to independence by showing your passion for Scotland. We need to stand together as a nation and send men like Salmond packing.

130

boudica,

Glasgow 02/09/2007 11:09:48

As it was an SNP MP who started off the investigation into " Cash for Honours" and as the SNP have consistantly made out they were whiter than white regarding any "underhanded " financial deals and of course not too forget the " 1 check Eck " fiasco you know the one ..the one were he quickly changed his mind on and became " 2 Big Checks Eck " putting the Wee Check into a
" Charity " in his Mammy`s name and for all the moaning SNP supporters ..greeting into their porridge about how everyone else does it ...well as they say ...Eck and the rest of his Bushwackers should have expected that they would be closely monitor regarding financial dealings ..so what do ya think shall we call them Scottish National Big Hypocrits Party and as for raising POarty Funds ..didnt Eck and his Cohorts not say there should be a limit of £5.000 on contributions made to Party funds ...Yes he did ..then when his RSB mate made a contribution of £ 500.000 to his party fund he just about ripped the arm off him when he accepted it ..Hypocrasy is rife it seems when it comes to cash and Eck ...must be the Economist in him ...

131

Transparent?,

Scotland 02/09/2007 11:10:25

Corruption!

When trust is gone, it's gone forever.
The only way is break it never.

Goodbye, Mr Salmond.

132

cataibh,

Ach yur seen it 02/09/2007 11:14:35

The SNP are doing nothing illegal if they were the unionists would have been handing all evidence over to the police to investigate. Why does the S.O.S not do this on behalf of the unionists if their undercover reporter has so much to valuable dirt against the SNP.

133

boudica,

Glasgow 02/09/2007 11:18:54

Breezy ...when you speak of support of the SNP supposedly rising I take ytou are speaking of the "Asians for Independance "section of this party ??? or is that a fact you deny also

134

Calum10,

02/09/2007 11:23:34

SHOCK HORROR - Companies sponsors events at party conferences.

135

Alphadominus,

West Lothian 02/09/2007 11:25:38

Can anyone who defends this type of event explain exactly why any businessman in his right mind would spend £10,000 on a dinner unless he thought there was going to be a financial advantage to be gained from doing so?

136

Alphadominus,

West Lothian 02/09/2007 11:27:27

Correction:
Can anyone who defends this type of event explain exactly why any businessman in his right mind would spend £10,000 on a dinner unless he thought there was a financial advantage to be gained from doing so?

137

Spotter,

02/09/2007 11:27:27

So story is an undercover SOS reporter (i.e one phone call) has discovered that the SNP have public brouchures printed advertising - yes advertising tehir conference

next week's story
An undercover SOS reporter has discovered Coca Cola advertises Coke under the slogan coke is "it"
when challenged coca cola would not say what it was
SOS asked washed up former big shots in soft drink indutry what they considered "it" could be
Mrs "I left coke in a huff said", "no company should put "t" in its drinks. My dog did it on the carpet the other day. If thats the it in carpet it would be terrible

A spokesman for coke denied putting dog pooh in Coke but SOS is not satisfied. Prove there are no WMD in Iraq we asked or we run with doh-poo coke headline

THUS readers in teh crap remplate of an SOS story

What is maddening is that they can report taht something the SNP advertised is clandestine

138

Kranal,

Oxon 02/09/2007 11:30:39

Well, well, well. The SNP snouts in the trough already!! No doubt the SNP MP who started the bogus cash for honours investigarion will be pressing for an enquiry into this!! Somehow I think not; more a case of do as I say not as I do. As to those who have said other parties do it; do 2 wrongs now make a right?, now the SNP are at it?

139

walter,

02/09/2007 11:32:58

What the groupthink do not seem to realise is, It is not the fact that all political parties do this sort of thing it is the hypocrisy of the SNP doing it not one year after attacking Labour.

www.westminster.snp.org
SNP in Westminster - Labour Now Embroiled in Cash for Access Scandal
Wednesday, 13 September 2006

Reacting to reports in the Times and the Guardian today, Angus MacNeil, SNP MP who launched the loans for peerages investigation, expressed his incredulity over the latest Labour announcement that they will sell access to Ministers at their party conference.

For upwards of £1500 people are allowed to "engage first hand" with Ministers. This cash-for-access scheme follows Hazel Blears call for public funding to bail out the Labour party.
Speaking today (Saturday) Angus MacNeil said:

"After all that has happened in the loans for Lords scandal, with an ongoing inquiry and arrest still being made, it is incredible that Labour should now be embroiled in a cash-for-access scandal.

"It is indicative of how insensitive and arrogant Labour is to public attitudes and how cavalier they are with the law.

"There is currently no public appetite for the funding of political parties until Westminster and the London parties can clean out the byre. People are simply not going to stand for bailing out the Labour Party."

140

Edward,

02/09/2007 11:40:22

'Public money 'donated' to Labour'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/kenyon_confronts/32...

141

Edward,

02/09/2007 11:40:54

'Labour is under fire from within its own ranks for having sold sponsorship of a party conference event attended by Prime Minister Tony Blair to fast food giant McDonald's'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1516214.stm

142

Pollock Bain,

02/09/2007 11:42:33

Can we please take the party politics out of this for a minute and think about democracy? If all political partys do this in one way or another, the amount they charge doesn't matter, nor does what they do with the cash. Conferences should be an opportunity for the rank and file to confer and to make party policy. PR events should be something different which parties may or may not choose to do, and where discussions with companies, charities, and lobby groups may take place. If parties do run such PR events, a full list of those attending, and the substance of their lobbying, should be recorded. In a democracy, neither wealth nor size should give one section of society greater access and influence than another.

It's not good enough to say "They all do it." Let's all object to them all doing it, and make it clear to both politicians and companies who seek to buy or sell influence that we the people will have no truck either.

143

Edward,

02/09/2007 11:45:17

'Nestlé, the world's largest food company, apparently refused to attend an investigation called by US Senator Horkins about child slavery in the cocoa industry last week, choosing instead to sponsor two fringe meetings about slavery (right) and African development at the UK Labour Party.
http://www.babymilkaction.org/press/press28sept06.html

144

Gnasher,

02/09/2007 11:49:30

Well, I don't see how the SoS can survive this, what with all these SNP people saying they're going to stop buying the paper. With all these affluent and up-till-now loyal paying customers leaving the ship, it can only be a matter of days before Sir Stagecoach and Sir Kwikfit buy it up at a knock-down price in the interests of freedom of the press and our Dear Leader. Listen to the authentic voice of the Scottish people not protesting too much -

Another blatant example of Scotsman double standard. This is typical of the level of journalism I have come to expect from the Britsman. Yet another reason why I'll never actually pay money for this rag. Is this the level of spin SoS has descended to? A desperate attempt to sensationalize a non-story. How much does Murdo MacLeod get to write part political propaganda instead of news? Would he sell his own granny for promotion? We need an investigation. Disgraceful smear story by this rag. Complete non-story - sad Unionist rag. Once again The Scotsman stoops lower than a snakes belly as it strives to deliver its ultra-biased opinions. You would have to be a retard to buy this so called news paper. This is legal, open and common practice. When will the SNP start dragging the scotsman through the courts for their libel. Id really like to see this tardly litlte rag gfo under. Circulation has fallen and it would be fantastic to see the like of Murdo on the dole. such bad reporting is a scandal - i will stop buying the scotsman and SOS from today. Good for the SOS that they have uncovered this blatant piece of hypocrisy by the SNP. The Scotsman sinks to a new low today. Hahahahaha what a non story. Your bias has gone to far this time. Your paper is no longer worth viewing for serious readers. This fabricated drivel illustrates in spades why the Hootsmon is losing market share across the country. Editorially rudderless & driven to printing Murdo's embarrassingly clumsy pretensions at investigative reporting, the cred

145

Brian Hill,

02/09/2007 11:53:53

No 154. Well said Calum10

146

Sunsetsong,

Kirkcaldy 02/09/2007 12:03:48

Why should we be surprised by this type of journalism? Especially from a Newspaper which has vested interests in seeing their Unionist cronies survive.

The SNP are on the move and the enemies of an Independent Scotland don't like it.
For years we have been exposed to sleaze and corruption by the Unionist Parties.

This backers of the Scotsman, unable to fault the policies, the statesmanship or the talents of the SNP executive are forced to ingratiate themselves to their masters by manufacturing non stories.

We are due one of these purile excercises once a week now until the next election, get used to it.

147

walter,

02/09/2007 12:07:11

#178
Cheers.

148

Seannair,

02/09/2007 12:08:11

Another non story from SoS presented as if it was some piece of powerful investigative journalism. That would be the day!
Companies pay to advertise themselves at Party conferences. It helps to offset the cost to delegates of attending such events. At SNP conferences the individual members in most cases pay their own expenses although some branches pay for unwaged representatives.

149

Sassenach Observer,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 12:10:47

The entire story is wrong.
My sources have revealed that Mr Salmond can do no wrong and is actually Nelson Mandela's lovechild.

150

JG,

Fife 02/09/2007 12:14:09

They are politicians! If any of them told me it was raining I'd look out the windae to check for myself.

151

Novascot,

stirling 02/09/2007 12:19:52

Even by The Scotsmans' standards, this is journalistic drivel. Driven by what?

Oh dear, oh dear. Makes me very sad to think that this is the depths Scottish journalists have "dived" to.
By an undercover reader.

152

Flabskin,

Badfort 02/09/2007 12:54:00

Flabskin, an intrepid freelance reporter working undercover, has established that fish suppers in Scotland can be accessed in exchange for cash.

Entering the local chippy this lunchtime, the hooded and cloaked avenger noted a surreptitiously-placed sign bearing the words "Fish Supper's': £3.50"

This was only a hint of what was really going on.

Discretely asking for a fish supper, he was told he could access one for £3.50.

"And what about a salmon? Can I access a salmon for £3.50?"

The reply will send alarm bells ringing around the nation:

"We don't do salmon. But you might get one in Tescos."

"So you're not denying that I can access a salmon for cash?"

"Yes", was the barefaced reply. "But IT WILL PROBABLY COST YOU MORE THAN £3.50!!!" (Editor's emphasis)

When presented with this evidence, fat fourth-rate Labour hack George Foulkes underlined his support for Mad King Bambo, a Lib-Dem spokesman made bleating noises, and a few desperate Nu-Lab supporters ran around the Scotland on Sunday blog with their heads up their backsides, trumpeting with joy...

153

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 13:16:29

SNP supporters here have conceded that business leaders can get, at least, tacit access to Alec Salmond for £10,000. What's the alternative, that Alec Salmond sits, eats lunch and doesn't talk to anyone? Do the SNP support here think that the rest of us are stupid, the money is exchanged for access, except for the Royal Bank of Scotland. I bet they have an open line to Salmond's ear at no cost.

Good for big business, what about the people who put Salmond where he is, how do they get access to "the great man"? No chance, business is whispering in Salmond's ear, paying him big bucks for the privilege and between them they are carving up the Scottish economy and our future.

154

Spotter,

02/09/2007 13:25:34

its quite easy to get a word in salmonds ear
he is having a national conversation to give Scotland a better future
all welcome to join

155

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 13:35:09

Pete, Paisley

How much do I have to contribute to the Labour Party to secure a peerage?

Lord Bully Wee Alba has a certain ring to it.

It is not within my gift to deliver the demise of the Scottish steel industry, but perhaps a Trade union MBE may tempt me to collude in the death of Cambuslang and Ravenscraig steelworks.

Bought and sold for English gold, sic a parcel of rogues in a nation!

156

Edward,

02/09/2007 13:37:50

#197 Pete, Paisley
Think your a bit dillusional
either that or reading something thats not actually there
Just in case you just didnt quite understand
The SNP party like all main stream political parties allow for events to be sponsored by companies that would like to provide support to the SNP party, a bit like MacDonalds who sponsored the Labour party, not quite like Tesco's though whose connection with New Labour goes slightly deeper!
Now interestingly according to all the so called unionists supporters out there there is a presumption that big business will not been seen to have any connection or support SNP in any shape or form, or is the truth sinking in that big business after all isnt really fussed about the SNP or there ambitions and would probably be quite happy to provide sponsorship! So you see you just cant have it both ways, eithere business is happy with SNP or SNP will not get anywhere with sponsorship.
At least the SNP are not selling honours, nor are they selling time with the politicians, unlike Labour and the Tories, who would sell there own grandmothers, in order to keep there snouts in the trough

157

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 13:40:11

#135 - of course it is politically slanted. That is what the owners pay the editorial staff for. Nothing new in this. If the SNP rabble rousers on here don't ;like get your own "rag". You should have the financial clout what with Souter and Farmer's support.

SNP ranters - for God's sake stop bleating on about how unfair it is. Welcome to the real World, politics isn't pleasant, how can it be when those in power want to stay there. Those out of power want to get in there. They are all self serving hypochrites, they only want to control you, take your money, spend it on their whims and then ask you for more whilst they enjoy the gravy train.

158

JimC,

02/09/2007 13:41:21

#167 Col.Blimp IV

#106. JimC

Where did you say they hid this damning document?

Oh! the Internet - crafty the swines.

I never said they hid it anywhere, O you noticed silly me, just goes to prove what a non story this is. In fact I would go so far as to say this is a deliberate attempt to slander the First Minister and his party, and is part of a pattern of mis-information by the Scotsman such as the totally stupid "Does the SNP administration at Holyrood deserve to be called a Scottish government?" Well as it is the Scottish Government I suppose it does deserve to be called just that. The Scotsman still in denial 100 days on.

And for those that think this story (I use the term loosely) is similar to the Cash for Honours investigation I feel for you, really, I never knew that so many Scots were so mentally challenged that they cannot read what is in front of them.

159

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 13:41:24

#196 Flabskin - Class, lol.

160

Mr A Roy,

02/09/2007 13:44:17

another smear campaign from labour .

161

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 13:46:08

204 CJO - you are hard to follow. Are the SNP types on here ranting or bleating? Make up your mind man. While you ponder you may want to make the most cursory acquaintance with the contents of teh article at the top of the page before posting your next muckle splutter.

162

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 13:46:14

#203 - the only reason the SNP aren't selling honours is that they don't have any to sell. Policy, favours and planning - yes. Honours? No.

163

European Scot,

02/09/2007 13:46:18

195 Methalions

As an SNP supporter it pains me to point this out, but unfortunately the colours on the cover appear to be those of the SNP.
Rose red, or Tory blue would seem far more appropriate !
Or could this be a Libdem publication ?

196 Flabskin

Nice one !
Just about sums it up.

PS Hope the fish in your suppers are like certain Unionists after the election, well battered with lots of vinegar !

164

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 13:49:00

#197 Pete - "Do the SNP support here think that the rest of us are stupid".

A rhetorical question? No, not "the rest", but certainly a few...

165

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 13:49:50

#208 - unfortunately both, a bleating rant - Oh its so unfair! There certainly isn't much rational debate.

166

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 13:58:47

#213 - Ah the Record.... now there is a true rubbish "news" paper. Are you still in Spain?

167

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 14:00:30

#212 CJO, no, not much rational debate when folks write the SNP are selling "Policy, favours and planning" - where did you get that from? It seemed from my reading they were selling an on over-priced meal.

168

vifiter31,

Catalan Countries 02/09/2007 14:02:41

World must hear about this

An incredible but true story: Spanish authorities prosecute child for terrorism when he e-mails companies requesting labelling in catalan language, using Phoenix Army monicker from Harry Potter books. Police accuse him of organizing an Al Qaeda cell. Case goes all the way to Spanish High Court.

Video 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIiRFSCgGu4

169

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 14:03:04

#214 Methalions - Good afternoon to you, too. That was roughly the point I was trying to make. People shouldn't turn around and say this is only aimed at the SNP, this is just the first time they have ever been in control, hence the reason it is the first time it has been brought up.

Back to Scotland tomorrow for 2 weeks for some R'n'R then offski again but a bit more permanetly the next time.

170

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 14:07:22

#216 - I didn't say they were selling their favours yet, they haven't been in power long enough. As for an over priced meal, I don't disagree. I said earlier that for £9k or what ever it is only the price of a couple of weeks wages and seems a bit cut price to me. Perhaps a reflection of what they can offer on their own a la carte menu?

171

Salmond For President,

Livingston 02/09/2007 14:16:00

Gary McL #120 & #128 has written exactly what I was thinking reading the 'story' and the comments.

I buy the SOS every week for the sport and business sections while my wife enjoys the magazines (even although I read most of it online).

For the first time in years I didn't buy the SOS when I saw the front page picture today.

It was gross propaganda that wouldn't be out of place in Nazi Germany, 1970s Russia or North Korea today.

172

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 14:17:38

Edward # 203

I understand perfectly what has been written in the article Edward and I am able to interpret what it means too. It means that if you want to get Alec Salmonds attention you pay someone £10,000 on his behalf and your company gets a receipt for that amount. Business does not necessarily have to like Salmond, but they want him to slant his policies in ways which will benefit them. It is not rocket science Edward, I am sure that you can see that. They put money in Salmond's pocket, rather than their own in the hope that they will be able to influence his way of thinking to profit further and I bet it does.

Sean Connery got a Knighthood after he both gave money to the SNP and lobbied them to propose his name. He got his gong on the pretext that he provided services to charity. If it was for services to acting he would not have got one because he is a big ham. As for services to charity, has he ever got his hands dirty or broken a manicured fingernail? I doubt it, but make a speech and twist a few arms because of who he is and bingo, Sir Sean, sponsored by the SNP.
The SNP of course, acting as the middle men in that transaction got a nice earner too, did they not?

173

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 14:18:50

~221 - Methalions - I continue to try and put the Mac in the Maghreb but the Macrebians continue to resist. They insist they had pipes and jupe before the Jockinese.
Ramadan coming so time to wind my neck in on the socialising front. Just been and bought a month's supply of wine and beer.

174

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 14:22:01

#222 - a wee bit of over reaction there perhaps? Nazi German, '70s Russia? Wee bit of perspective required, no? If you like the business and sport and your wife likes the magazines, why not use the rest to dry your wellies during the coming rainy season?

175

GrahamH,

02/09/2007 14:27:25

#96. Cheap childlike insults are no substitiute for the truth.

SNP have been sent in every direction to (see the consistency in SNP comments on this site week after week) try to distance Alex Salmond from betraying the people of Edinburgh, but the cold fact is that SNP had the power to overturn the other parties in this and throw out the trams but Salmond chose not to and try to blame them for his cowardice.

Nice to misjudge my age though - even those I teach in political science are older than that.

176

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 14:29:45

#226 - We pay a massive £1.20 per packet here, £2 if you buy them at an hotel. Makes duty free pointless. Fill up the car for £16. Who are the mugs?

177

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 14:29:53

Blimpy # 220

I hate to stray from your digression, but the article is about the SNP exploiting their present position for cash and lots of it. Personally, I think that they are charging £10,000 for lunch, whilst being unable to deliver of promises made, should be a matter for Trading Standards or the Fraud Squad. If you pay 10 grand you should get something for it.
But, Salmond is making promises to so many people and interests that he must contradict himself every time he opens his cakehole. I can see his point of view of course, he knows that he will not be FM for much longer, so he has to fill his boots while he can.

178

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 14:33:42

I do like the stupid SNP supporters protesting all the other parties do it.

Irrelevant, is it morally bankrupt. Please sur all the other kids were doing it. Well, silly Alex if the other kids asked you to jump off a cliff?

Thick as pig's droppings. It is morally bankrupt, and the holier than thou pig's droppings are now hiding behind smoke and mirrors the same as Labour did.

110 days and closing schools and taking bribes. Naughty boys and droppings.

179

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 14:48:47

#230 Jalepeno - pigs droppings behind smoking mirrors? Mixed metaphors? Congnitive dissonance anyone? There was a thread about drug abuse the other day which mentioned acid casualties - how very good of you to demonstrate for us all this invidious condition.

180

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 14:53:52

#231 you can disguise or hide a pig's dropping using smoke amd mirrors. Maybe even make a dropping look like a tasty chocolate snack from a distance.

A mixed metahpor is something contrary, knocking a top dog of his perch - a dog doesn't have a perch.

Silly you, eh? Best you leave that advanced level of understanding to the 13 year olds eh?

181

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 14:54:43

AyrshireScot # 231

Hallucinogenics enables one, I am reliably informed, to think creatively. I suggest that politicians be induced to take acid (LSD) so that they cease being obsessed with food, cash, oh, and themselves.

182

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 14:55:58

#229 - Pete from Paisely - talking of the Fraud Squad, do you forget the quote from the police re. the previous Labour council in Renfrewshire - "police chiefs have now said that they have had to send police officers into Renfrewshire council so often that, if it had been a pub, they would have closed it down?"

183

Suck--McCrunchie.,

http://www.stirlingpark.net for public contracts? 02/09/2007 14:58:42

I know all parties do it - but it just seems too open to sleaze.

However I am against their public funding, given this type of fiasco...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4940182.stm

I feel the solution lies in letting them obtain funding by selling their own internal organs, which should also be used as a way of obtaining a percentage of all public spending.

Government(ette) spending would plummet, and I am sure the service offered by the NHS would improve in no time!

184

DanB,

here 02/09/2007 15:02:39

SNP - just as sleazy as the rest of them. A shame, but no surprise there then. Who'd be naive enough to believe otherwise? Only committed nationalists. See no evil, hear no evil.

185

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:02:40

#232 - Jalepeno - what interesting past times you have. Did you arrive at smoke and mirrors as the best way to disguise pigs' droppings after trying alot of other methods? i just hope that you don't go about shaking hands with folk. Could you turn George Foulkes into something palatable with your advanced illusory techniques do you think? Or perhaps give a veneer of sanity to your postings with some of your dungy, reflective and wispy legerdemain?

186

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 15:02:42

#234 - That'll be why I don't go out in the mid-day sun. Not too bad today, only 37. but was 52 on Thursday. Almost put me off my lunch. Winter is okay though, 18 during the day but chilly at night. Just about to go for a swim and fire up the BBQ.
Good golf courses, too. Beats playing in a howling gale with 4 layers on. Oh and you can get a bacon buttie, too.

187

Senga Jean,

Scotland 02/09/2007 15:05:06

I was wrong at one to mention other parties. The only comment I wish to make is that the SNP are acting well within the rules and I am proud that they have introduced modern fundraising. The alternative? State funding. I do not think so since I would object strongly to my taxes being used to fund the BNP or other Unionist parties.

188

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 15:08:42

#239 It's okay, I understand, as an SNP know it all you refuse to learn English for political reasons.

The SNP don't learn gaelic either though do they? Could get tricky, shouting, pointing fingers, false promises and rhetoric can only get you so far.

Maybe the corporations ideas can fill the vacuum between the average SNP members ears? And a nice little earner to boot.

189

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 15:10:53

Pete, Paisley

Perhaps you are too young to realize the labour party complicity in the demise of the Scottish steel industry, and that is why you have declined to respond to my previous post.

Fair enough, your lack of knowledge drives your lack of insight.

This is why your party is being chased.

190

Spotter,

02/09/2007 15:19:45

this story is about sponsoring an event at SNP conference
its like tennants sponsoring the scottish cup

these events that are sponsored can be attended by any SNP member and journalist (undercover or not) and in some instances the public - with a high boredom threshold. -- it is NOT private access to anybody

no big deal football teams do it
political parties do it
pressure groups do it

191

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 15:21:12

#241 - wise words, I wouldn't want any of my money to pay for parties I had no support of. Open it up, let the free market lose and step back and enjoy. A couple of grand a ticket isn't going to come close and when your new found friends are asked to start shelling out millions and not a couple of hundred k then they may well be found to be fair weather friends only.

192

,

02/09/2007 15:23:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 929161, Article id was mapped to record!
193

Spotter,

02/09/2007 15:26:56

if you want real corruption
http://www.order-order.com/

Coincidence or Corruption?

Gordon's pollster Deborah Mattinson sits on the board of Gordon's think-tank, the Smith Institute. Her relationship with Gordon has been very profitable for her firm, OLR. According to today's Sunday Telegraph, government contracts totalling some £3 milllion have come her way.

By coincidence OLR does a bit of polling for the Smith Institute for no charge. In February Guido queried who paid for their latest "92% favour Gordon" poll. OLR came back and said they had no paying client for the research. Nor did they have an identifiable paying client for their "What it means to be British" research in 2005. Shortly afterwards Gordon began loudly banging his Britishness drum. Opinion Leader Research has helped Gordon on "Britishness" issues before, their research was also used extensively in “New Britain” a 1999 publication produced by the Smith Institute. The pamphlet was itself singled out and explicitly criticised by the Charity Commission as being party political in the first 2001 investigation into the Sith.

194

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 15:27:27

bully wee alba # 243

I have just seen your previous post. You do not have the credentials for a Labour peerage, try the SNP. They "arranged" one for Sean Connery, you should be no problem, as long as you have the "wonga."


I would have thought that world conditions, distance from market, having to import raw materials etc. had more to do with that demise than politicians.

See "comparative advantage."

195

Edward,

02/09/2007 15:29:42

#223 Pete, Paisley
'Sean Connery got a Knighthood after he both gave money to the SNP and lobbied them to propose his name. He got his gong on the pretext that he provided services to charity'
Firstly it wasnt SNP that arranged the Knighthood, it is not in there powers to arrange that, but is arranged by the UK Government
You really are pathetic in your attempts to put down people who do support charities
Your typical of your kind, died in the wool Labour supporters that can see past there snouts

196

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 15:32:00

This is from the Tory web site;-

Commercial Opportunities

We have opportunities for organisations to:
book an exhibition stand
advertise in the handbook
organise/sponsor a fringe event
promote your brand

Further details on any of the items listed can be found in the marketing sales pack, to download the sales pack click here.
Further information can be obtained by contacting a team member at Fingerprint Events on telephone: 020 7099 9630 or via email: info@fingerprintevents.com

Corporate Day

Guests from the business community are given the opportunity to engage in discussion with the relevant members of the Shadow Teams from the Commons, the Lords and the European Parliament. The day includes round table seminars on policy areas and breakout sessions with a chance to speak with Shadow Ministers of their choice. After lunch, the afternoon sessions will include a Question Time panel on European Issues and a champagne reception hosted by the Party Chairman.

For further details, please contact James Kerby on james.kerby@conservatives.com or 020 7984 8038.

Back in a bit just off to get labours

197

Candybar,

Fife 02/09/2007 15:32:36

I'd need paying to have dinner with any of the SNP bunch!

198

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:34:26

#242 Jalepeno - I am not a member of the SNP, but having read the posts on here for a couple of weeks I think I soon will be. Seems the best way to go. All the bitter, negative girning of the Unionists clearly has to be countered more actively.

Corporations? Perhaps your refer to the likes of Mittal Steel?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1855489.stm

199

cataibh,

Ach yur seen it 02/09/2007 15:35:45

# 209 CJO
Your unionist pals cannot sell honours now. Thanks to the SNP.

200

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 15:35:57

#249 - you forgot restrictive working practices, overly unionised and inept management. All the above beloved of the Labour party that requires the union block vote and loot to stay afloat. But yes, the World market shut down Ravenscraig and the rest. Mrs T just put them out of their misery by turning off the tap of subsidy.

201

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:40:22

#248 - We have had Labour corruption coming out of our ears in Scotland for too long. Did Labour themselves not have to instigate investigations into East Ayrshire, East Renfrewshire, Motherwell, Monklands councils?

202

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 15:41:12

Edward # 250

Are you denying that Sir Sean lobbied the SNP to propose him for a "K." If you deny that I will say that you are a candy-ass. An easy touch and you will believe anything that Salmond and the SNP will tell you.
There is a committee that vets proposed gongs from the PM of the incumbent government. You will be telling us next that Tony Blair took money from the Tories for forwarding their nominations, but not from the SNP. Their (SNPs) nomination for a gong was Sean Connery, the fact that he was bankrolling them at the time was just a coincidence; yes, no, don't know, in denial?

203

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 15:41:45

#254 - what are you on about? The SNP have zero power to grant honours, they have stopped no one doing anything. They merely have a minority party leading the Scottish Executive.
I have never pinned my colours to any individual party having voted for the candidate rather than the party in 3 of the 4 elections I have voted in. Its better that way, you aren't blinkered and hopefully you can judge what is in front of you and who is working for you rather than slavishly following party orders. Try it some time.

204

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 15:43:41

#253 AyshireScot

Yes, Labour are corrupt. Morality is objective, it is not subjective. I appreciate it is hard for a SNP member whose IQ is probably the same as a bar stool.

Here is what you must ask yourself, is what the SNP did right or wrong? Can I punch a man in the face and claim, "well, look at all the murderers and rapist m'lawd."

I apreciate logic, truth and reality are hard for you as an SNP member, but now you are in power you cannot scream like a monkey and point fingers, you must be judged on your own actions and those alone.

Is providing access for cash morally right? I submit no it is not. Every citizen must have equal access to our representatives.

Corporations do note vote and get more access?

205

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 15:45:31

No click n capture at lab web site, however go this and click on conference;-

http://www.labouronline.org/dev.labour.org.uk/

206

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:48:14

#257 Pete

Did Labour not block Sean Connery's knighthood on political grounds before being shamed into awarding it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFLt6ppJ84

207

ehlndh,

London and Edinburgh 02/09/2007 15:48:29

Though never yet having voted SNP I think Alex Salmond is doing extremely well in government for Scotland and its people. The latest Scotsman story appears yet another instance of a paper that previously had a reputation for general fair-mindedness to adopt a priori a pro-Union stance. Many regular Scotsman readers like me will increasingly wonder whether they need to look elsewhere for a more balanced presentation of the news.

208

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 15:48:56

CJ0 # 255

I have just had an idea. Let the Royal Bank of Scotland and business dictate the minimum wage in Scotland.
If Salmond and that cabal have their way, everybody in Scotland will be working, directly or indirectly, for the RBS, on poverty wages. The RBS has to fund their arrogant takeover pretensions somehow; ABN AMRO comes to mind. A poorly paid compliant workforce is the cheapest way.

209

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 15:51:42

AyrshireScot # 261

Quoting "youtube" as a reliable source; PHd failed.
Put that on your CV.

210

Norbert Dentressangle,

02/09/2007 15:51:43

So, as FM Salmond's table was full up, it would be of great interest to know which captains of industry paid up to £9500 to sit and dine with him. Particularly as SoS led us to believe that only homophobic former bus drivers and B&B owners were the only business people willing to support the SNP.

211

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:52:25

#259 - Jalepeno, aside from the weak invective you make a reasonable point, which is surprising as I am fairly sure that if we put your brain in a bumble bee it would fly backward. I think corporations should not be able to lobby or buy access. From the contents of the article what the SNP are doing looks fairly innocuous - selling places at at meal...note that they refused specifically to set up private meetings or allow lobbying. This is in contrast to Blair et al who did sell private meetinsg and offered government documents, information etc.

I am not an SNP member. I fully intend to become one if it will hasten the day we rid Scotland of this negative, tactical, posing, Unionist humbug. In the meantime I may organise a dig to find to find your IQ.

212

george alexander,

north lanarkshire 02/09/2007 15:53:21

Christ, I knew this place was full of Unionist trolls posting rubbish but now they've got them writing ARTICLES !!

I read it and have decided to treat it with the contempt it deserves. Even Unionists must surely be embarrassed by this stuff. This SNP led government has clearly got these people very scared.

213

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 15:54:00

#263 - RBS, the only bank I truly detest.

Catchy new slogan for them!

Presumably, it was Sir Sean's charity work for beaten house wifes that won him his gong?

214

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 15:57:35

The L/Ds have nothing on their web site about conference.

Even a search brought nothing, maybe they'er not having one this year.

But they are offering cheap deals on membership

215

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 15:58:21

#264 - Pete good job for me I am in possession of a PhD already, the substance of which did not include a dissertation on Labour corruption - that thesis would have been way too long.

216

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 15:59:04

ehlndhleg # 262

The Scotsman has never been an objective newspaper, it is unapologetically Tory. It is now having to resort to Machiavellian techniques to promote Tory interests. It credits SNP support as being stronger than it is and is using reverse psychology to galvanise that support to degrade support for Labour in Scotland. What the Scotsman fails to recognise is, that it is likely to unleash forces, in support of the SNP, that do not care about the democratic process.

217

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 16:02:50

249 Pete, just as quickly as you can, get medical help.

You show all the classic signs of 1st denial , 2nd blame transference

218

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:08:32

AyrshireScot # 271

I read your PhD dissertation, your viver was a load of old pony too; I thought 120 months was too long.

The book on SNP corruption is just opened, chapter one is good, chapter two looks much more promising though. That MacNeil bloke from Barra is a dead cert to come to a bad end. There might be more revelations on his previous exploits...

219

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 16:11:31

255 cjo,
Ravenscraig was a vibrant thriving steel works until the stupid tories closed the plants at Gartcosh and Dalziel which had full orderbooks and were the only parts of "british steel" that did.

Closing those plants meant that the Craig now had to send its steel to Wales for finnishing.

That cost another 76p per tonne, and it was that 76p x 200,000 tonnes per year that put the craig in deficite

220

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:15:46

peabrain # 273

I think you might be Schizophrenic, you live in England but believe that you are instrumental in Scottish affairs.
Recommend: seek treatment, denial of SNP propaganda literature. Exposure to SNP economics.
Prognosis: Lifelong delusions of inadequacy due to Sussex residence.

221

Norbert Dentressangle,

02/09/2007 16:16:34

Poor Pete in Paisley, what a posturing mountebank.

222

Hamish MacBeth,

Brent Bravo 02/09/2007 16:16:40

More rubbish from the SOS, and from the usual BORING unionist's ie: AM2, Media1, Jalepeno. Don't you get it, I could'nt care less even if Salmond was caught shagging a shetland pony, he's doing a good job RUNNING the country, unlike Labour did.
The fact is this is a non story, and if you think you can smear the SNP with corruption then you'll have to do a lot better than this. The Tories under Thatcher were corrupt, and we had 18 years of that. Labour were corrupt and useless for the 8 years that they were in power in the SP.
This story is nothing, but keep trying lads it's fun reading your bile.

223

Kobi,

02/09/2007 16:16:48

If you want to see real corruption in politics, then introduce fully state funded poltical parties. I might not like what the SNP has done, but it is within the rules, the same as the other parties (except the SNP can charge more now), and is preferable to the alternatives.

Their only failing is in being guilty of rank hypocrisy, in that they fully condemned this practice of Labour, when the SNP were in opposition.

224

Non political,

only a numpty would CLOSE STOCKBRIDGE 02/09/2007 16:16:57

If I were to forgo the meeting/dinner etc, would the £10k donation be enough to keep my school open.

If so we could start a collection .

Only joking, but If Alex Salmond or one of his minions are reading this, we would be grateful if he could put a word in for us with his colleagues in Edinburgh council.

I personally think its completely OK for corporates to make political donations to parties they think may have policies that they either support as individuals or feel that the party is the one most likely to create/maintain a favourable economic environment for their company.

Besides I think if you really needed to buy a UK politician 10k probably wouldn't be the number.

Its just a donation with a bit of networking, woop de doo.

I hate saying this but, NON STORY.

225

Edward,

02/09/2007 16:17:50

#257 Pete, Paisley
You really are a pathetic piece of work!
First of all Sean Connery did not lobby anyone in order to get a knighthood, if you knew anything about the honours list, which you clearly don’t, you would realise that you cant put yourself forward for an award
Sean Connery was actually first nominated by ministers in the former Conservative Government in 1998, but was blocked by Labour (presumed to be Donald Dewar).
As to believing what Alex Salmond’s says or the SNP party, can state that Im am not actually a supporter of the SNP, never have!
You really do live in a dream world, or is that nightmare world, where you think Labour is right and all others are wrong, where you see a political party giving money to another for a favour, you really are delusional and would recommend that you seek physiological help. Try and accept at face value that Sean Connery received his knighthood from the Queen ‘For services to Film Drama’ pure and simple

226

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:24:04

Methylatedlions # 275

Hey, the fact that Andrew Neil was born in a Paisley sort of direction was a quirk of nature. That fact that that guy Gerry whatever, "Baker Street" was born in Paisley too, was fate. You cannot blame Paisley for fugly Brillo Pad, that is not fair.
I will not be having brunch, lunch or dinner with the FM, my name is NOT John Smeaton. Not that I can't afford it, you understand, I just do not wish to assist organised crime.

227

pehman,

sussex 02/09/2007 16:27:45

277 ,

So you concede you lost the argument due to your very low i q.

When you can't even put an argument together with out recourse to ya ya name calling you should stick to the playground.

or are you an election agent T Clarke

228

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:28:44

Methalions # 284

To suggest that Alec Salmond would couple with a shetland pony is crass beyond description. But, with allt he sponsored lunches and dinners that he is now engaged in he looks like a Clydedale horse and I bet he cr*p* like one.

229

Level Headed,

02/09/2007 16:31:27

282 - Physiological help? - are you sure about that? Im not sure how someone who studies the biochemical functions of living organisms is going to much use in this instnace!

230

I want to be a troll too and enter the "debate",

Sitting on my high horse 02/09/2007 16:32:22

You are all mad.

231

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:35:24

peabrain # 296

I know my IQ, but I'm not telling you because it is higher than yours, ha, ha!
You must be Alec Salmond's speech writer, because his pearls of wisdom are like Clydesdale horse droppings.
Grow up peabrain, your Pampers are showing beneath your cute little shorts.

232

Edward,

02/09/2007 16:41:02

#290 Pete, Paisley
Some how doubt that your in the top 2%

233

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:42:11

Methalions # 292

Unseen forces from the future.

234

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 16:44:45

Edward # 293

I couldn't believe either when I was told it was the top 1%. I'm trying to get used to it. I feel a bit like Alec Salmond when he woke up and realised he was FM.
When I leave Scotland the IQ rises both sides of the border.

235

Hope for Scotland,

02/09/2007 16:51:36

No doubt I'll log in now and again to see if standards have been raised and biases at least hidden if not removed.

Other than that, that's me. Once a frequent reader and purchaser of both the Scotsman and the SOS.

I can state categorically I will never buy either again.

236

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 17:20:56

Methalions - good siesta?

237

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 17:25:32

CJ0 # 304

What kind of siesta is it where you bang your head off a door for 10 minutes?
An SNP inspired siesta! The brainwashing has begun.

238

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 17:36:48

#274, #285 - Pete, your latest missives are just short of coherence. Clearly the constant tension and anguish of living under an SNP government has left you in some disconcertion and bewilderment as a blinkered unionist. What little communicative effect your posts have is diluted by your tangential grip on reality. Try dealing with the real world, rather than the world as you would like it to be with George Foulkes and Margaret Curran presiding over us. That McNeil bloke is a class act - he caused Levy and Blair to have their collars felt for their vile practices. His harmless three-way in Shetland or whenever involved no farmyard animals, so was probably incomprehensible to you :-)

239

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 17:42:55

#305 - if that's what it takes. Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. The siesta, that is.

240

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 17:43:29

#293 - Edward - if we keep watering Pete he and his IQ may grow.

241

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 17:46:59

#283 - Methalions - if I want to bicker with a member of the lgeume family this is my right.

242

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 17:47:24

The SNP should make a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission. The headline is deliberately misleading. The specific allegations are false.

"Want to lobby the First Minister? Send a £10,000 cheque to the SNP"

Except you can't actually do that and that is not what the SNP are offering.

"after a Scotland on Sunday investigation revealed the party is selling time with First Minister Alex Salmond and senior ministers in return for payments worth thousands of pounds"

This is simply NOT TRUE.

243

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 17:48:16

#283 - Methalions - if I want to bicker with a member of the legume family it is my right. think of it as a form of electronic care in the community, I was trying to help the poor unfortunate.

244

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 17:48:57

#314 - wihtout the deliberate spelling mistake in 312 :-)

245

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 17:52:33

AyrshireScot # 306

For someone who spends his time kissing the ar*e of a former loyalist murderer your comments are interesting. How is Ayrshire most infamous resident, Johhny Adair?
I wonder how Angus MacNeil's wife feels about his "harmless three-way in Shetland?" Not living in the 21st Century, I am sure you have no idea.

It is a pity that the Levy/Blair case did not go to court, I was looking forward to seeing MacNeil giving evidence, then being arraigned on perjury charges. Unfortunately, the CPS has denied Scotland that entertainment.

246

Faye,

02/09/2007 17:53:09

#Draco Was a Wimp, Edinburgh/

Did the Sturgeon catch Salmon.d? Did you find oot the price? £10,001?

#141 Big Eye Paisley.

No need for an interview. Your investigative mind has landed you the top job. How long is your nose?

247

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 17:54:05

Methalions - started the aperitiff time a wee while ago, soon to be sitting on the terrace watching the the ships roll in, cue for a song. Marvellous. Might need a sweater tonight, just to drape over the shoulders you understand, apparently looks good for some. Got to try something.

248

CJO,

The Maghreb 02/09/2007 17:56:56

#316 - you're getting a bit twisted now and way off the point and it doesn't do your cause, if you have one, any good. Go and have a wee lie down.

249

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 17:56:59

#313 Joe, poor Joe, you are quite the thicko my poor chap.

A rose by any other name. Did you pay £10k to lobby a minister, no your honour I paid £10k for a meal, do you normally dine for £10k, um ... it was just a dinner.

Joe, you are thick and I can't blame you for that, but it is legal word bending, it amounts to the same thing.

Poor thicko Joe, the SNP prays on your thickness so you vote for them. Not paying for access, just your ordinary £10,000 sit down meal, yes your honour if they happen to chat later it's just because all the working people in Scotland enjoy a £10,000 saturday night.

C'mon Joe, you can do better man, I know it hurts, but try ... give thinking a go man, eh? What d'you say? Are you sure it's just dinner, eh, £10,000 for a meal? I know it's tough, but I fell you've nearly grasped it...

Don't give up on me Joe... keep trying to think beyond the legal definition of words.

250

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:01:53

#316 High IQ Pete reveals his B.Sc, MSc and PhD - bulls*&t, More Sh*t, Piled Higher and deeper. Not wishing to challenge further what is obviously a highly disoriented mind suffering a mild breach from reality, I haven't the foggiest re. your assertion that I cavort with loyalist terrorists. You mask your inability to deal with the SNP's competent start in government, and its positive vision for Scotland, with fabrciated and loathsome assertions. Why would Angus McNeil have given evidence - he only asked the police to investigate, he was not a material witness, having not successfully bought one of new labour's peerages. Your posts are an amusing, Marx Brothers style freewheeling venting of spleen - if they are indicative of unionist thinking do keep them flowing.

251

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:04:43

CJ0 # 319

That's politics in Scotland mister emigre. Scoring points IS the point. If it is too rich for your pampered blood then retire to your boudoir. AyrshireScot, if he needs your effete support, is really in need.
In the meantime, Alec Salmond in his greed for power and money is an anachronism.

252

,

02/09/2007 18:04:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 929512, Article id was mapped to record!
253

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:07:42

#313/ 320 - Joe, good griief, decried as a thicko by the pig dropping prestigitator Jalepeno? You must be reeling. Can anyone find much substantive argumentation from the unionists on here - they seem a very bitter, dissappointed bunch.

254

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:09:40

#324 - Pete, no support, effet or otherwise required, I think no one would be over-stretched to deal with your rabid dribblings.. Amazing you can tell he is 'effete' just from a posting - was it his punctuation?

255

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:11:03

AyrshireScot # 322

You are right. Angus MacNeil made allegations without any evidence and wasted police time; he should be charged with that and surcharged as the allegations were made out of political expedience.
You live in Ayrshire and presumably it is okay with you that Johnny Adair lives amongst you and you make him welcome; no moral fibre.
I'm glad you find my posts amusing, I live to amuse!

256

howyoudoingboy;,

02/09/2007 18:16:10

#327 AyrshireScot

. "Amazing you can tell he is 'effete' just from a posting - was it his punctuation?"

#318 CJO,
"Marvellous. Might need a sweater tonight, just to drape over the shoulders you understand, apparently looks good for some. Got to try something."

Might be the reason.....sound a bit girly

257

Tormod,

At hame with a bloody cold 02/09/2007 18:18:03

Funny story I can't find anybody else carrying this "Blockbuster" or even part of it. It will be interesting to see what happens over the comming days and next weekend etc.

So what is the story?? Is it that the SNP are holding fundraising events at party conferences and you can be involved in a keynote speech / breakfast meetings with their leading members for a fee??

I think the hootsman is shooting itself in the foot almost by the day, can you imagine at the next press interview when Murdo gets up to ask a question to the first minister.

Alex Salmond - "So then Murdo by attending this press interview and having a coffee and blueberry muffin your paper is wholly supporting the SNP Government"!

258

Norbert Dentressangle,

Deepest Dumfropolis 02/09/2007 18:19:50

#327 AyrshireScot....poke him again he's starting to froth at the mouth.

259

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:22:01

#328 Pete, I am from Ayrshire. I fear to disclose my actual place of residence to you lest you sit outside my abode, foaming at the mouth, going through my bins and rocking in the garden, whimpering. Residence or otherwise in Ayrshire is open to all - if Mr Adair is a un-discharged criminal then then I am sure due legal process will deal with him. If he has been released legally what is the problem. George Foulkes, that convicted drunken old-lady and police basher, was a sometime resident of the beautiful county of Ayrshire. His, or anyone elses residence in Ayrhsuire should not be taken as a blight on the county of Burns, Kier Hardy and Jim Sillars. Your posts are full of what Satre would have described as "nothingness and bad faith". I am sure we are all struck by the desperate, bitter tone of unionists these days. Clearly a sound defeat, with the SNP resurgent, has caused an ellipsis and state of panic in your rusty mental(ist) processes.

260

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:24:02

#329 - LOL. Fairr enough. Might just a Frecnh influence?

261

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:25:43

AyrshireScot # 327

No rabies in Scotland unless you know better, but I detect a little inbreeding in you. The fact that I can detect underlying truths from an individuals posting is called, intuition. I have it, you aspire to have it; good luck, but it will take a few generations.

Alec Salmond is an avatar registered to an Aberdeenshire pensioner.

262

Transparent?,

Scotland 02/09/2007 18:26:41

#163.
Just got back to the discussion ... I have other things to do with my time besides winding you up.

Dumplings are always better than puddings and the dumplings my mother made always had silver coins inside them - a treasure in our home!

So what colour of pudding are you, Red, Black, White, or maybe just an SNP Haggis cooked in Salmond's batter?

263

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:27:58

#330 - Tormod - spot on. Hope your cold gets better. What will the scurilous nats do next? The Scotsmans' stellar talent of investigative reporters willsoon discover the impudent SNP's most secret of plots, their hidden plan to bring about independence via the ballot box.

264

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:29:46

AyrshireScot# 334

Stop giving French. It might clear your intellectual impairment.

265

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:30:19

335 - Ah Pete, your frisky, scamperings forays into unreality get harder to follow. Perhaps you confuse intuition with remedial tuition, something I am sure you have? I suggest you try and pull your sadly ebbing faculties together long enough to seek help.

266

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:33:08

#338 - Pete, I think your little whirlwhind of mentalism now blows a last pathetic puff? It is interesting how the unionist sense of reality and logic disintegrates in the face of defeat,. I am sure we have all been struck by the sense of despair in amongst your mad ravings. Perhaps it is a cry for help from unionists in panic and in peril from the all too real competent, energetic, inspired SNP government?

267

livilion,

livingston 02/09/2007 18:38:46

316. Pete, Paisley

Couldn't be a***d to read all of the comments, particularly after the mind numbing drivel you've just posted.

The principle of the fundraising dinner, the testimonial lunch, is now to be lumped in with the brown envelopes stuffed with tenners on the railway station platform, or the exotic Caribbean trade mission, or the interestfree loans that just coincidentally precede elevation to the upper chamber of the government?

The secret cash for access now to go with the secret independence agenda, and the sexless sex scandal that took place on the wrong island.

Have you absolutely no idea of the pitiful impression you are giving of yourself?

You sound like the 'I didn't want to play your wrotten auld game anyway, see if I care!'

btw For anyone from Paisley to be digging anyone up for the colourful nature of the transient resident they attract is priceless.

Whatever happened to the Thompsons? My father in law used to look after legitimate businessmen's tools for Thompson Snr. when he ran the pub by the station.

268

Mario 2.0 (at home),

02/09/2007 18:39:02

Ha Ha , you fell for it. You couldve all been out today saving kittens or something , I know I was.

269

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:40:35

AyrshireScot # 339

I find it interesting that you find it easy to foray into unreality. I realised that some time ago.
My faculties are ebbing into boredom at your inconsequential and self important ramblings. I suggest a foray down to Tam's Brig, a few pints and an overnight trip on a fishing boat to Northern Ireland, where some tight ar*ed unionist/loyalist ferret will your restore you to reality.

Alec Salmond is an avatar registered to a 69 year old Aberdeenshire woman.

270

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 18:46:29

#333 AyrshireScot

Sorry to butt in when you're so obviously having fun, but what's this about Foulkes being an old lady basher? Hadn't heard about that. Do tell. Anything that lowers that oleaginous auld sot further in my estimation is gladly received.

271

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 18:46:42

livilion # 341

The fact that you are associated with Paisley neds is of no interest to me. Am I supposed to be impressed or afraid? If you are afraid of scum like that you are afraid of the wrong people.
Thompson senior is where he should be and he won't be coming to Paisley anytime soon; except in your wishful thinking.
Do you think that Alec Salmond is a greedy opportunist like the mojority posting here?

272

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:46:45

#343 - Pete: your last post contains all the elements of an attempt at communication, but makes little sense.
"Alec Salmond is an avatar registered to a 69 year old Aberdeenshire woman." - I am sure no one has a clue what you are on about or what relevance your fetid, dank wee mind thinks this has? Your precarious grasp on sanity is clearly teetering, so I will leave it to you to befriend ferrets or any manner of small furry animals for discourse and advice from those who may undersatnd you.The only analysis I can make of your non-points is that a drubbing at the hands of the SNP has left you in a dissociated and possibly schizoid state. Do keep the bilious and nonsensical posts coming though, they do raise a smile and are a good advert for the sophistication of unionist argument.

273

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:48:02

#344 - Draco. g evening. Ceratinly - post atatched - read down there are alot of stories on it.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,13562...

274

Jings Crivens,

02/09/2007 18:50:27

It is importent because this is the party that targetted labour about the cash for honours which turned out be a damp squid.

It is importent because this is the party that receives approximately 50% of their funding from one individual.

It is importent because this is the party who are bringing a fresh approach to polititics and then do the same as the other parties

275

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:51:02

#344 - Draco - not reported here, as is a secondary reference, was the fact that Foulkes was reported to have been doing a batman impersonation, arms outstretched running bent over, singing the batman "nanananana" music when his revolution ended abruptly in the gutter (this is sad but true, check some of the stories at the time)

276

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 18:52:41

#341 - Livi - oh, let him keep going. i think he is fun and he gives a lovely impression of unionist thinking.

277

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 18:56:36

Given that this is a non story crudely trying to put a subtle slant on things, I wonder 2 things.

The first thing I wonder is whether or not the Johnstone Mob are part of the Unholy Alliance?

The second thing I wonder is whether the unionist posters are really so stupid as to read this article and knee jerk their way through the comments?

In this respect, I will surmise that they have the intelligence to recognise the non news garbage and are only posting here in this manner because they are happy that the Hootsmon is on their side and they are trying to wind us up.

278

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 19:00:07

#349 AyrshireScot

Was there any chance that one of the ladies was a bold octogenarian Cockney-type who set about his booze-flushed napper with her handbag? I would pay good money to see that.

279

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:00:35

Having read his collected output #316 #343 etc I think Pete would be ideal to fill the role of a Scotsman investigative journalist?

280

Tam O'Banter,

Embra 02/09/2007 19:01:34

Children! Children! Get back to the subject. Tory paper reveals that SNP are actually just the same as every other party after all. Hands up all of you who already knew this?

281

WL,

livingston 02/09/2007 19:02:50

I am sure that no one would want to send a cheque to any of the unionist parties, that is just such a waste of money.
So what is this whole discussion about? Like any other political party, the SNP needs cash - nothing wrong with that. Like any other political party, they organise events to raise cash - nothing wrong with that. Some people seem to think that it is wrong when the SNP does that - where do they get that idea ?????

282

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:04:07

#352 - Draco. I recall from stories at the time that the bold George tried to force the unwilling old ladies to dance with him, and in trying to fight off the slavering booze-bag they a l tumbled to the gutter. The melee continued on the ground, and when a polcieman came to the ladies aid la Foulkes flailed at him until being forcibly restrained.It was reported that the phrase "do you know who I am" and "I am a government minister on urgent government business" were uttered. Check out the press from the time. Hilarious, in a sad way when you see his self-important pontifications.

283

Norbert Dentressangle,

Deepest Dumfropolis 02/09/2007 19:05:14

#348

Thank you for your importent pounts.

284

livilion,

livingston 02/09/2007 19:06:37

345. Pete, Paisley
For anyone from Paisley of all places to slag anyone on the basis of where they live is the howler and what makes it even funnier is that you don't seem to get it.

285

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:07:39

#357 - LOL. Portents of more unionist nonsense to follow perhaps?

286

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 19:08:24

AyrshireScot # 350

Has it ever crossed your mind that you are a patronising prat and that nobody gives you any credibility.
It is a long time that anyone from Ayrshire has made an intellectual impression on British politics. The last great hope was Neil Crawford Patterson from Ayr, but, he died a few years ago without realising his potential. You are not his intellectual heir. (Pun intended)
Incidentally, I am not a Unionist, but an anti-Salmondista. Salmond is bait.

287

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:09:25

#358 - Livi - I think Pete is getting his medication now. He gets very little. In truth I feel guilty now, being unkind to him is like attacking a fluffy, unitelligent wee animal.

288

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:11:17

#360 - Pete, your just saying that to be kind.

Wendy Alexander states that Labour in Scotland has made no intellectual contribution to politics for 100 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/2287855.stm

289

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 19:11:43

livilion # 358

I slaged who because of where they lived? Livingston is a place devoid of reason, you are an example.

290

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:12:18

#360 - Pete, you will also note that Wendy states that "independence in Europe" is the most substantial intellectual contribtuion, versus Labour's zero contribution.

291

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:13:20

#363 - Ah, another artfully constructed, rhetorically polished, witty riposte from Pete. Well played.

292

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 19:13:59

AyrshireScot # 361

You cannot stand on your own little forked feet can you? Livi be nice to me that bad Paisley bud is after me! Nancy.

293

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:15:36

#360 - Ps. Pete - I am have your towering intellect, so can you explain where the pun is here
"
"You are not his intellectual heir. (Pun intended)"

hair, air? hare?

294

Norbert Dentressangle,

Deepest Dumfropolis 02/09/2007 19:16:07

My intuition detects that Paisley Pete suffers from an as yet undeclared need for man love with Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair. So in order to sate his unrequited passion for short arsed bald psychopaths here's a crayon drawing of the object of his affection I made earlier.

http://www.five.tv/media/image/11940131.jpg

Gawn Pete a quick one off the cuff and you'll feel a lot better.

295

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:16:52

#360 - PS Pete, I do not have your towering intellect or subtle mind, so could you explain where the pun is here:

You are not his intellectual heir. (Pun intended)

hair? hare? air?

296

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:18:07

#366 - Pete, aye, you had me, and reality, on the ropes :-)

297

livilion,

livingston 02/09/2007 19:20:13

348. Jings Crivens
The Scotsman
Thu 26 Jul 2007

The Nationalists had an income of £1,836,405, according to the accounts.

The SNP's net debt stood at £689,764, down £35,323 on the previous year.

Scottish Labour had an income of £396,800 last year, a third of it from donations.

However, a Labour spokesman said the figures were not directly comparable because much of the money raised and spent north of the Border is included in its UK accounts.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=783&id=116457...

Now who was this individual who donated £900,000 to the SNP?

btw How do Labour in Scotland and the tories find their funds and is there a list published say of donations over £1000?

298

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 19:20:18

Methallions - lovely day here also. Blue sky, nice breeze and a hint of autumn.

Like you, have found today's round of postings inconsistent in terms of thread and good humour.

Observations -

#246 - How about SNP = S'Not Pretty?

268 -Sorry, Sir Sean won his gong for supporting the Failed, Underachieving, Clueless and Krackpot Guild of Actors.

#271 - PHD? Your pompous comment deserves the reminder that PHD stands for " Piled Higher and Deeper".

#302 -

"Whites of their eyes"? Bunker Hill, Boston - American Revolutionary War. Zulus? If you waited to fire until you saw the whites of the Zulu's eyes, I'm surprised that you're still alive! Or did you run away? No shame in that. Others did and got a gong.

299

,

02/09/2007 19:21:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 929635, Article id was mapped to record!
300

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:23:00

#368 - Norbert. LOL. Pete is into ferrets and possibly other wee hairy mammals too - see #343. But you could be right, his deep frustrations vented on this page may indicate a desire for a private re-enactment of the the Battle of the Boyne between himsef and Mr Adair, involving baby oil and hopefully a gag if mr Adair is wise. I fear we are mocking the tragically afflicted though.

301

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:24:17

#372 - Used the PhD gag earlier. keep up and try to be more original. Is Paisley Pete a pal of yours btw?

302

,

02/09/2007 19:27:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
303

Pete,

Paisley 02/09/2007 19:28:14

AyrshireScot # 374

Mr Adair does not stand a chance. In daylight looking someone in the face he cannot handle it. I note your admiration for that piece of excreta. I am sure he is gratified that his influence has descended to your level of society.
Is Alec Salmond learning from AyrshireScot?

304

Norbert Dentressangle,

Deepest Dumfropolis 02/09/2007 19:30:28

#374
Yes, I fear Mr. Mad-Dogs cries of 'No Surrender' may go unheeded as Paisley Pete plunders his rapidly loosening trapdoor.

305

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 19:31:06

#375 -

I do beg your pardon. Please forgive me - I should have been paying more attention to the hundreds of other postings which you seem, to your vast and unending credit, to pay such close attention. Such devotion is a terstament to your intellect, oh mighty Doctor of Philosophy>

I have one too. So step down off your pedantic and condescending perch and lighten up.

Paisley? Never wear the pattern.

306

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:31:56

#373 - Pete, what "plaudits"? Was Wendy who was stating that independence in Europe wa the most substantial intelelctual contrubtion to politics vs Labours zero contribution in a century? Did you come up with independence in Europe? if so, fair play.

i am not in an intelelctual centre of excellence? who knows. you are of course, the Saucilhill secure centre the mentally sluggish being such a beacon of learning.

307

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:32:45

#379 - I am lightened up. Pete is providing no end of amusement.

308

langtonian,

scotus 02/09/2007 19:36:18

With regard to,
"Want to lobby the First Minister?Send a cheque for £10,000 to the Labour Party"

Given THAT as the heading, as opposed to ending SNP.I am of the opinion that the very same correspondents, who are lambasting the SOS article's rank and file apologists for any comment which criticizes the SNP,would be to the fore in demanding heads should roll, and screaming blue murder if the boot was on the other foot.

Alec Salmond would be in one of his favoured attacking mode's single minded, go for the jugular, destroy at all costs, never mind the consequences,which reminds one of the actions of a slavering pit bull terrier showing it's inbuilt myopic savegry in overcoming any adversary.

Ambitious political animals will go that extra mile to make their manifesto more appealing to potential voters, the may kid some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

309

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:36:38

#377 - Pete, again a post with words and punctuation but almost no discernible sense? What are you trying to say? I have only the vaguest notion of who Mr Adair is. if you want man-love, with you probably dressed as little Bo Peep, between yourself and Mr Adair that is your business, and respect to that.

310

louisescot,

inverclyde 02/09/2007 19:36:55

Can anyone make a complaint to the press complaints commision or is it just the person the story is about that can complain. Perhaps the PCC could even have a new catergory whereby if a journalist does not meet a certain standard they can get banned from reporting. Quite frankly my 12 year old could have done better. When is someone in scotland going to sell a proper newspaper there is a market out there for at least 35 percent of the population. Maybe i should get a group of kids together and start one myself cant be any worse than this rubbish.

311

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 19:40:05

#381 - good. Now stop beating up on poor Pete.

S'Not Pretty (SNP - remember?). You are very close to resembling the cruel boy picking wings off flies - or in Pete's terms - a WASP. Sorry, Pete.

312

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:40:32

#384 - good point, but I think just the subject of the article can complain. given the bile produced by The Daily Record, The Sun etc this piece of innaccurate and biased "journalism" probably won't even merit much attention from Salmond or the SNP. Par for the course it seems now for the Scotsman.

313

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:41:24

#385 - Dunnie. Are you saying Pete is a defenceless fly? How are you anyway?

314

Norbert Dentressangle,

Deepest Dumfropolis 02/09/2007 19:43:04

Bo Peep!


You've gone too far wrongmo!

You're not suggesting that Paisley Pete is a cross-dressing gaymosexual are you?

;)

315

smirk,

smirksville 02/09/2007 19:45:21

#351 Jock Tamson,


Grist for the mill Dear boy. Throw enough mud some will stick do appreciate The Scotsman's help. As a unionist do I consider Murdo
Macleods article relevant. Frankly I couldn't give a t#ss

There is a contradiction in the S.N.P Behavior in office and what they claimed as inappropriate behavior by other political parties.
That's why you Drones are so roiled. Good fun though yippee!!!!

AyrshireScot and Pete, Paisley looks to me like a budding romance. They always starts of with arguing and squabbing which later turns to a deeper more meaningful relationship. Best keep an eye on them two.

316

The Strategist,

02/09/2007 19:46:17

Very disappointing. This one of worst pieces of journalism I've seen for a long.

The implication of the headline doesn't match the story and the quality of research is very poor.

In fact it's not just disappointing it's really rather sad.

317

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:48:48

#388 - LOL Never. Although in #377 he goes on about staring longingly into Mr Adair's face, sun dappled etc. Hyperbole me thinks. He probably spent more time looking at the back of Mr Adairs head.

318

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 19:51:13

#389 LOL. I felt the chemistry too, but alas I fear Pete has sublimated his attraction into agressive and non-sensical writings. I doubt I could replace Johnny Adair in his affections in any case. Sigh....

319

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 19:53:00

#387 - Ayrshire Laddie -

Just great thanks. Lovely (Bank) holiday weekend out at the cottage on the lake (Rideau Lakes). How about you?

Re. Pete - yes, he is defenceless.

Now, be a good boy and get back to your Plato.

If you persist, you could be accused of intellectual bullying.

320

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:00:08

#393 - Good thanks. Enjoy your weekend. Am in London (despair) work. I will leave Pete alone as you suggest, I do feel guilty, but he was a bilious wee chappy. Must go soon lest I become even more verbose and off-topic.

321

eddylongshanks,

york 02/09/2007 20:02:42

#376 wondered when someone would blame the English, curious how it always reverts to that.....lol

322

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:02:52

Dunnie - on a last Pete related subject, you are clever, can you see the pun at ~360, is bugging me.

323

Gtj,

Dundee 02/09/2007 20:05:50

These articles are becoming more desperate by the week. They are not even worth reporting on. And yes, I never read the whole story.

So "**** ***".
Billy Connolly.

324

smirk,

smirksville 02/09/2007 20:09:06

#392AyrshireScot

you know how it is you always bully the boy you like so as to get his attention. Pete wants you thats why he hounds you.

Johnny Adair not much of a lover he was nice when he had a bit of muscle on him. See you anon.

325

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 02/09/2007 20:12:04

#320

This is a trashy unsubstantiated smear story and no amount of silly/sad anonymous attacks will change that fact.

The paper says that you can pay for access to Alex Salmond but in fact you can't ERGO the paper is lying and this is a normal fund raising dinner of a type done by numerous other political parties.

Bertie Eccleston gave Labour One Million pounds and then suddenly Formula One became exempt from a proposed ban on tobacco advertising.

Lots of other donors gave huge donations to Labour's campaign and were planned to be suddenly elevated to the House of Lords with a fancy title and a life time income from the tax payer, a practice which is not only against the law but something Labour has actually admitted!

The Scotsman would dearly love the general public to think 'they're all just the same' about all parties.

In Labour and the Tories case it's true but in the SNP's case it isn't and no amount of fantasy stories by the SoS or any other member of the Scotsman stable will change that fundamental fact.

However what this paper and their owners is hoping is that their negative headlines will tarnish the SNP even if they have no actual basis in fact. They are a disgrace to the name of this publication.

326

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 20:18:03

#401 Joe, poor thick Joe, I know Labour are bad, I agree with you. But the SNP need to define themselves on morally correct not less bad but still corrupt.

Rather than point fingers and scream like a monkey, perhaps you would be so king as to explain why it is correct/morally right to provide access for £10,000.

I would like to share a meal with our first minister but lack the cash?

You seem to think this is correct - why?

327

James Johnston,

02/09/2007 20:19:05

Re Flabskin 112

You call to mind the story about the woman who was asked by a rich gent

'will you sleep with me for a million pounds?'

The woman thinks about it for a while and says

'Yes I believe I would?'

The man then says

'will you sleep with me for ten pounds?'

The woman replies

'Certainly not, what do you think I am?'

The man replies

'Madam we've established what you are, now we're just dickering over the price.'

Same old trough, different snouts.

Any one who thinks that someone is paying £10k simply to talk is very very naive.

328

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:25:16

389, Smirk.
I reckon you would have to check back and see if they were doing this before they came to power before you could accuse them of double standards.

You would also have to check out the other parties as well. Could it be that the market forces now mean top dollar is paid for wanting to be seen at an SNP do rather than a Labour (Scotland) one?

Perhaps that is what is sticking in the craws of so many people.

329

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:25:28

#404 - In all seriousness, it doesn't "look" great, but is just a part of modern party fundraising I guess. I agree with your distaste for it, but is lcear from the SNP publications re conference and even from the story above that they are not selling influence or lobbying. If companies are foolish enough to spend £10,000 for a dinner this is sad, especially if you think about where such money could go. But the bigger parties have been selling seats at fundraising meals for years - I guess the SNP would be disadvantaged if they didn't do same? Perhaps state funding of parties and better control of election spending would address the broader issues, but everyone pukes at idaa of taxes funding parties? But could be a way to rid politics of Mittals, Hindujahs, and even this relatively innocuous but distatsful thing?

330

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 20:29:10

#396 - very obscure. Perhaps our good Pete is suggesting that that you are not the next intellectual from "Ayr".

#397 - Wassup, my good Gringo?

Yes, bit of a non-story.

To those of righteous indignation, I would say, as Von Bismarck once observed:" If you like politics and sausages; don't go and see how they are made". It's politics and within the rules - suspect as they may be.

331

Auckland Arab2,

02/09/2007 20:30:38

#404

So can you explain how a political party raises the funds necessary for elections, campaigns and pays for its full time staff?

The SNP do not have a political levy from trade unions or industrial magnates / captains of industry handing out their shareholders money.

Has Tony Blair or Gordon Brown ever hosted a dinner where people paid to attend and the funds went to the party? Thought so, case closed.

332

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 02/09/2007 20:33:40

I did warn the SNP posters on this forum some weeks back that if they were not whiter than white then the press would find out.

It just goes to show that when it comes to fundraising the SNP are no different from any other party. It also reinforces my argument that party political funding in this country needs to be completey overhauled so that everything is above board and seen to be honest.

The average voter's opinion of politicians in general is pretty poor - and this is not going to improve matters one bit. Action has to be taken soon if confidence is to be restored in the political system - is there the will to do so? I doubt it.

333

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 20:34:15

#407 I am financially disadvantaged that I am prevented from robbing grannies in the street.

What takes precedence? The fact it is wrong, or the fact that I am at a disadvantage compared to common criminals.

Did no-one at SNP headquarters complete their primary education. Repeat after me pig's droppings, just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you have to.

Act righteously, for your own sake.

334

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:34:25

Shouldn't Murdo be lobbying Gordon Brown to have this all stopped? How much would it cost the Hootsman for a seat at that table?

335

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:35:42

#408 - Dunnie. Good thinking, that's it! Being from Ayrshire you would have thought I would have got that. Out-smarted by pete in the end ....
Thought is was laws and sausages...

336

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:35:43

Bet Murdo's undercover agent used a freephone number.

337

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:39:20

#411 Jalepeno - mmm, yes, you make a good point (except for the pigs droppings thing, don't start that again). Is a tricky one - personally am not sure the SNP should have taken the money from Souter, but then they might not have won....which is worse (if you are an SNP voter...?). But, if you consider this as just a fundraising lunch/ dinner, is still a non-story. Will the SNP get criticised for selling tickets to any dinner Salmond or other ministers attend - that would be ridiculous, so I tend to think this story is just fabricated.

338

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:39:55

413, AyrshireScot. von Bismarck's dream went from better to Wurst. He made the Second Reich and we all know what happened after that - the Fourth Reich, aka the EU.

339

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 02/09/2007 20:41:39

#411 There is also the fact that the SNP have consistently criticised other party's fundraising methods - painting themselves as all virtuous and holier-than-thou. That is a dangerous game to play in politics - as John Major found to his cost - if you avoid being sanctimonious in the first place there is less likelyhood of anything backfiring in your face.

#407 Agreed about party funding - personally I'd like a state funded system with match-funding and a limit on individual donations. The IPPR proprosed such a scheme back in 2003 - with £5000 being the donation limit - I'd go lower than that even - perhaps £1000 being the maximum individual yearly donation.

340

Saul Tyre,

Germany 02/09/2007 20:45:11

The report is a non-story. Everybody read the last five paragraphs again. Honest investigative journalism is something else.

341

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 20:46:19

#416 and 413 - re. Von Bismarck - yes, Gents, it would be more palatable with a good moutarde or HP (how ironic: Houses of Parliament sauce: I scare myself!).

342

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 02/09/2007 20:47:46

#418 Non-story? I doubt it very much - this ones going to run for some time.

By the way there is at least two stories doing the rounds about a certain SNP MP - one to do with his use of parliamentary postage and the other about his . . . er . . . wandering hands.

343

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:53:09

419, Dunnie. Are you mayonnaise or ketchup person for your pommes?

344

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:53:32

#416 Jock, very good. You're no one of those Jim Fairlie type nats are you?

345

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 20:54:46

#420 - NAUON - thought it was Adam Ingram up for envelope-gate? Has Mcneil being posting tatties to folk?

346

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 20:57:41

420, NAUoN.
Yawn. More stories.

347

Ian from Gala,

Galashiels 02/09/2007 20:58:01

OK, let's rewrite the headline in the way it should have appeared in a fair article from an unbiased newspaper of good repute:

"Reporter foiled in audacious attempt to buy access to First Minister. SNP refers incident to Press Commission"

348

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 21:01:42

Pommes de terre,commes les frites? Ou les pommes comme Mackintosh?

349

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 02/09/2007 21:02:29

#420 Forgot about the Ingram rumour - but you are on the mark with the tattie howker.

It just goes to show that all parties have their eejits - sorry to say but I am in smug mode at the moment as I knew that being holier-than-thou was going to backfire at some point on the SNP. The are in the situation Labour was after the Tories were caught with brown envelopes - Labour tried to make the most of it but then got caught with their own fingers in the till.

You won't stop this sort of thing happening until party funding is completely above board.

350

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 21:04:29

#411 Jalepeno - but does this mean the SNP can't sell seats at a Burn's supper or St Andrews night dinner that Salmond attends? And if they do will the Scootsman write this same guff? There must be a distinction between fundraising and actually peddling influence - Mittal, Ecclestone, Hindujahs etc - there seemed to be a quid pro quo for donations... cash for peerages too. Here the Scotsman is "reporting" that the SNP are doing nothing more than what has always been done re. fundraising meals?

351

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 02/09/2007 21:04:48

#424 Wake up and smell the salts - the SNP has its share of chancers as much as any other party - just wait and you'll see.

352

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 21:05:35

#426, encore, plus des votre boeuf hache?

353

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 21:06:27

422, AyrshireScot.
Not sure what a Jim Fairlie type of nat is. Ah! Unless you mean independence outwith Europe.

Well, personally, I reckon the Independence in Europe slogan was designed to counter the fears of a nation who were scared to go it alone.

It is evolving all the time and Fairlie didn't have the patience to wait. He is waiting now. Independence in what I knew as EFTA does not seen such a bad idea nowadays.

However, the Fourth Reich quip was just an observation. I have a German son and it came up through some family banter.

354

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 21:08:21

429. I'm sure it does but yawn just the same.

You will note I reciprocate by not adding your name next to your number.

355

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 21:08:52

#427 NANOAU - "tattie howker" LOL. What do you suggest? State funding? I think it would be worth looking at, if accompanied by restrictions on other income sources and proper control of election spending. Will be interesting to see what the SNP propose re. controls on spending for referendum? In the 1970's I think PPBs were banned (court ruling, the Tories I think) for the devolution referendum on basis that the "yes" parties PPBs would outnumber the "no's". Hope the SNP can come up with a fair way to ensure a referendum can be conducted without spending or airtime bias.

356

AyrshireScot,

02/09/2007 21:13:51

#431 - Jock, yes, meant an independence outsie EU nat. Is a reasonable position (one I don't agree with) but is an argument for after the independence part - struck me as strange Fairlie and his ilk didn't stick around for the independence part first? Yeah, emphasising the "in Europe" part was a way of neutralising the separatist gibe. Still has alot of logic to it though. I vaguley remember Pastor Jack Glass's lot contesting an election in Kilmarnock years ago, before I left Scotland, and them going on about the EU being a plot to re-establish the Holy Roman Empire. Fairlie may have agreed.

357

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 02/09/2007 21:20:04

Dunnie. I will not be de terre d from responding.

Germans now refer to chappit tatties as Pommes (pronounced pommies) when ordering in their carbohydrates alongside their sausages.

Just thought I'd bring you up to date with life in the Fourth Reich.

358

HEN BROON 5,

02/09/2007 21:21:04

433. AyrshireScot / 10:08pm 2 Sep 2007 .
The Foulkes, Batman impersonation sounds wonderfull have you a reference to any article?
Keep up the good work. :o)

ALBA GU BRATH.

359

Dunnie,

Canada - 02/09/2007 21:21:15

Je suis desole, mon ami! Boeuf Hache? ( I see we both don't have the proper key boards to type the the proper accente gue).

Non, mon brave, je pense que les majorities des sausages sont font du porc -pas de boeuf.

Avec porc ou de boeuf? Moutarde.

Avec des pommes? C'est tres simples - syrup d'erables.

360

Jalepeno,

02/09/2007 21:21:41

#428

Oh dear, you were so close to getting it and then your IQ started 'dropping' again.

It's not that hard, even for you numbskull.

1) They sell tickets to an SNP gig for £10,000 and the proceeds go to SNP. Naught little droppingsis.

2) An independent organisation orgainses a burns supper where alec salmond oinks and the ticket proceeds go to charity. Fair one.

I though you nearly saw it as it was for a minute there.

Rather than try the normal hypothetical BS the SNP usually does as part of its hot air retorts, deal with the facts. They are taking the p*ss for financial gain by selling favours to orgainstations that can't vote.

The reality is far worse. Why does someone without a vote need caring for by our friendly SNP.

Snap out of it. You know exactly what is going on, judge them on what has happened, not what might be in dropping's land.

361

AJ of Fife,

02/09/2007 21:21:53

The SoS will never recieve a penny from me ever again!! Today is the last time I'll purchase the unionist rag!!

This story was the most outrageous, biased and pathetic attack ever on a political party!!!! No real story, just a feeble attempt to try and pin something on a fantastic Scottish government!!! What nasty and mean reporting!!!

Luckily, only about 117 people read this ar*e wipe of a paper!!!!!!