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Wee Free maverick wants to ditch 'doom and gloom' image

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Published Date: 13 January 2008
FOR decades they have been caricatured as dour, depressive killjoys, only truly content when they are chaining up playparks on a rainy Sabbath.
But now God-fearing members of the Free Church of Scotland are being urged to lighten up and put the cheer into Calvinism.

The official magazine of the traditionally ultra-conservative Presbyterian faith has called on its readers to dispel the not
ion that Wee Frees are characterised by "doom, gloom and joylessness".

As part of the bid to shed their austere fire and brimstone image, the Church has endorsed Harry Potter, as well as the blockbuster The Golden Compass, both of which have been denounced as "ungodly" by many Christian groups.

Rev David Robertson, the editor of the Free Church's monthly magazine, claims it is high-time that followers of the faith smiled rather than scowled as they worshipped.

The Dundee-based minister wrote: "The definition of a Calvinist as being a person who is miserable at the thought that someone somewhere is actually enjoying themselves is sadly all too typical. In the Free Church I'm afraid that we are not good at joy in worship. So much of our worship has no soul, no spirit and very little joy."

Robertson said his fellow clergymen were often lampooned as being like Rikki Fulton's lugubrious TV clerics Rev IM Jolly and Rev WE Free, with some justification. "They are caricatures, but sadly they are popular because they reflect a common understanding.

"Religion, especially of the Scottish Presbyterian kind, is doom, gloom, blackness, depressive and joyless. Let congregations pray, think and act in order to deal with the sin of joyless worship.

"This is not a plea for frivolity, flippancy or entertainment – 'fun' worship. But please can we have some serious joy."

Robertson, who recently took over the editorship of the traditionally staid Monthly Record, said Presbyterians should rejoice rather than recoil at the success of the Harry Potter series and the recent blockbuster The Golden Compass, which starred Daniel Craig and Nicole Kidman.

He said: "The Potter books are popular because they are immensely enjoyable. JK Rowling has no aim other than to write good stories which are actually very moralistic, and in the tradition of all good fairy tales, about the battle between good and evil.

"In terms of attacking the Christian world view they are a lot less dangerous than Neighbours (or] EastEnders."

The latest edition of the magazine includes an upbeat verdict on The Golden Compass, the film based on the fantasy novel Northern Lights written by avowed secularist Philip Pullman, who was denounced by the Vatican for his "militant atheism".

Robertson said the reaction to his liberal stance had been largely positive: "Most people seem thankful that sane and balanced comments are being made."

But the magazine's outspoken views have not met with universal approval. One angry reader wrote to cancel his subscription and accused Robertson of "endorsing witchcraft".

His letter in the Monthly Record states: "In the books Harry Potter is told there is no good and evil, only power. This does not square up with evangelical Biblical truth."

While still a cardinal, Pope Benedict denounced JK Rowling's books claiming they "deeply distort Christianity in the soul before it can grow properly".

The Golden Compass is set in a parallel universe dominated by an authoritarian, brainwashing organisation known as the Magisterium, believed to be a caricature of the Catholic Church.

America's Catholic League described the film as having a "pernicious atheist agenda", while a Vatican spokesman said it was "as anti-Christmas as a film can be".



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 January 2008 8:01 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Yane,

Melbourne 13/01/2008 00:21:47
What? They're going to spoil our fun again by lightening up?
But Rev Robertson — can ya get "serious joy"?
2

Conan the Librarian™,

13/01/2008 00:23:23
Hehe.

Wee Free=Taleban.

Let them all burn in a joyless hell of their own creation.
3

weeshooie1,

Australia 13/01/2008 00:26:54
Ochone! Ochone! :o(
4

McGinty,

The North 13/01/2008 00:28:36
Not as miserable as the mudslingers, vitriol merchants, pointscorers, trolls etc. on these boards.
Cheers
5

BK,

Cyberspace 13/01/2008 00:54:37
It is said that a Wee Free Minister died and went to the Pearly Gates. Inside he could hear the sounds of partying and happiness. St. Peter came to the gate
"Who's there"
"I'm the Reverend MacSonachan, a Wee Free Minister"
"Well, come in if you want - but you'll no like it!"
6

Kipling,

13/01/2008 01:49:22
why does Robertson want to spoil their misery?
7

Senga Jean,

Scotland 13/01/2008 02:23:11
As sure as God is on the throne of heaven they will die in the fiery pits of hell. God of Love? I'll gie ye God of Love as ye fry in hellfire.
8

Pete40,

Tassy 13/01/2008 03:50:33
Well one good point about the Wee Free's compared with the rest of Scotlands protestant religions was that you never fell asleep during their sermons. It maybe as the years go by and the tv gets progressively worse that a good "hell and damnation" sermon each Sunday will be the only thing to keep your brain from atrophying.
9

Kenny A,

13/01/2008 07:10:26
Probably means that the sale of Pan Drops will decrease if its all fun and laughter.

Oh woe is me.
10

Garry Otton,

Glasgow 13/01/2008 08:52:47
Great stuff...! Will Wee Frees be enjoying gay/bi sex more openly and honestly now?
11

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 09:48:07
Surely this story should be linked to the one about Islamic extremists? There's little difference.

Why not just get rid of religion?
12

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 09:49:23
While still a cardinal, Pope Benedict denounced JK Rowling's books claiming they "deeply distort Christianity in the soul before it can grow properly".

This means,'the likes of Rowling is scuppering our chances of brainwashing children when their brains are most vulnerabl'.
13

Roy,

13/01/2008 10:00:50
The Free Kirk is bound to excommunicate the Rev Paterson for his heresy. Ancient church schisms produced Burghers and Anti-Burghers, Lifters and non-Lifters, Auld Lichts and New Lichts. Now can we have a split to create the Doomy Gloomers and the Seriously Happies?
14

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 13/01/2008 10:28:32
Is this branch the Wee Wee Frees, the Split Peas or the original Wee Frees?


I say. I say, I say etceteras, what do you call a Wee Free Meenister with the top button of his Crombie undone?


A Poseur.
15

BK,

Cyberspace 13/01/2008 11:41:26
#13 Is the concept of excommunication not a bit popish for them? Do they not have secessions, dissents and suspensions instead?
16

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 12:37:24
Religion does have a relevance, certainly a historical and cultural one but so does Gaelic. Most easily identified symbols of Scots' culture are Gaelic, even in the Lowlands. Kilts (the first piece of tartan dates from the Battle of Falkirk, where Wallace's Gaelic speaking army had 'Albannaich' as their warcry), whisky, bagpipes, Highland games, a wealth of personal and placenames from the Borders to Orkney and many cultural relics of our pagan Gaelic past such as the Beltane Fire festival and Burning of the Clavie.

I doubt if the Wee Free extremist can drawn on such a list, their being part of our Gaelic culture too.
17

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 13/01/2008 12:41:04
#11.... When people like Calum Crumbag say things like" Why not just get rid of religion" they more than often have a anti- Catholic agenda as there "rid of religion" remark is normally followed by an attack on the Catholic church. Well I have news for you pal,Scotlands 1 million Catholics and increasing, are here to stay. The world's 1 billion Catholics are here to stay .So! get used to it.The Wee Free's have every right to exist and practise their faith as they wish. Scotland has no shortage of 17th century bigots ,just read post #15 BK. What a sad person he really is.
18

saneatheist,

Shetland 13/01/2008 14:07:40
How nice to see an article by the "wee flea"

[One angry reader wrote to cancel his subscription and accused Robertson of "endorsing witchcraft". ]

You couldn't make it up folks, Bwahhhhhhhhhhh.
We're missing you at http://richarddawkins.net/ David, where you are always good for a laugh, but I don't suppose you'll be reading this, it being Sunday and all.
19

Gothic Rose,

13/01/2008 14:11:48
5#BK. :)))
20

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 13/01/2008 14:35:08
The only people more intolerant than religious zealots are atheist zealots!
21

Kipling,

A wee free diversion: 13/01/2008 14:42:54
#22. Dave.
Is the superiority of the Picts not due to their descending from Scythians ?
And the vikings attacked Ireland, destroying much, so the movement back into the north might be regarded as a historical retaliation.

But on the other hand, regarding Eire. The most intelligent of the Britons was King Ecgfrith, who sensibly departed from Ireland after a brief invasion in 684AD. If one was to do a costs & benefits audit of the invasions and colonising of that island, my feeling is it wouldn't show up as a profitable enterprise in the long term (counted in centuries) except for individual landowning families. Again, retaliation has come the bigger island's way.
22

Masque,

13/01/2008 16:09:33
(to the tune of We 3 Kings)

Wee Free Kirkers
Will go on and on
Cos we like a moan
And a moan
Joyless B*******s
For God and Master
We should be left on our own!

23

Calum Crubag,

13/01/2008 16:24:57
Dave Barrach - then to take your reasoning, no country has it's own culture as the roots are always to found elsewhere? In a Scottish context, most of our icons are Gaelic.

Flamenco is a part of Spanish culture though it's roots are in Moorish and Gypsy tradition. The Moors themselves were not immune to absorbing other's influences. Equally, the Norse whom you mention are themselves Germanic. A people whose first influences came from the Celts and Romans. Indeed, the Germanic peoples first mention in recorded history is apparently firghting as mercenaries for the Celts. Funny that.

So, if no one on earth truly has their own culture then why your original post?

The historical language and culture of the Kings, court and most of the population Alba at it's creation, even to when it's current borders where 'drawn' was Gaelic. The GAelic Celts too were Indo-Europeans but it would be ridiculous to claim Sanskrit as our true tongue.
24

Pontificatus Maximus of Avignon,

13/01/2008 17:51:42
I nearly choked on my wafer when I read this! At last the members of the Wee Free Sect are told to lighten up! Whateffer next? Dancing in the aisles at St Peter's Basilica in Dundee where Robertson is vicar.
Maybe even a raffle.
What about welcoming back the schismatics in the Wee Free Sect Continuing who walked out because of Pope Professor Donald MacLeod's alleged hanky panky?

Ach well I suppose we should be pleased that they are thinking of coming into the nineteenth century at last!
25

Gothic Rose,

13/01/2008 17:59:00
30#Dave from Barra,"Define Gealic Culture"Hell on Earth!
26

doublescotch,

U.S.A 13/01/2008 18:05:32
#28 Masque! Beautiful! I can't stop laughing:))))
27

doublescotch,

U.S.A 13/01/2008 18:07:20
#28 My nephew's mother-in-law is a "Wee Free" from Lewis:)
28

Sandy Sr.,

Taloqoak 13/01/2008 19:10:13
Seems to me that alot of comments being made are from individuals whe have never been to a "Wee Free"service,including me. However I have to admit that I would like the opportunity to attend if only to confirm or disagree with their acquired reputation.Personally I would not go to any church to be entertained but rather to informed and enlightened and given the state of things that have transpired since the death of Jesus Christ there is much to be clarified. Lets face it, there is not much to be merry about given the way we humans have handled matters up till now despite the continuing warnings regarding our transgressions. Case in point, our blinkered approach to global warming. Here we are after being presented with a bonny wee planet in which to live and get along in only to turn it into an uninhabitable mess. Quite possibly the Wee Frees will have the last laugh on this one.
29

msspurlock,

Reality 13/01/2008 20:09:39
The most intolerant, racist, bigoted, arrogant extremist group in existence is the flock of sheep who believe in global warming. The Warmies are a bunch of ignorant, unthinking fanatics. Given that they are mostly Communists, or shiftless Anarchists, that's not surprising.
30

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO British Columbia Canada. 13/01/2008 21:00:53
Where was this guy when I was a kid in the 30's??

I was taught I was put on the earth to work, work and work some more! And to thus glorify God while my nose was on the grindstone!

Happiness was not something for SCOTS......Other Godless religions, perhaps, but they took a mistaken view of GOD'S INSTRUCTIONS in the HOLY BIBLE and were headed straight for the fires of Hell(what with their kneeling and scraping,indulgences,pardons and all)!

I was told that 'I maun thole my own assize' and if God found for me,I would be cast into a world of joy and happiness beyond belief, aye, in perpetuity too.

Well here I am, at age 77, wondering if what I was told is true!(Maybe it's me for Hell's Fires)
31

Itchy,

13/01/2008 22:43:21
" One angry reader wrote to cancel his subscription and accused Robertson of "endorsing witchcraft".

His letter in the Monthly Record states: "In the books Harry Potter is told there is no good and evil, only power. This does not square up with evangelical Biblical truth.""

This man is a half-wit. Harry Potter is told by the VILLAIN that this is the case. Using this reasoning, anyone who writes a book with Hitler as the villain is a Nazi.
32

BK,

Cyberspace 13/01/2008 23:09:05
"and when ye're condemned to eternity in the burning flames of Hell you will say "but Lord, I didnae ken I had sinned" and the Lord in his infinite mercy will turn towards you and say "weel, ye ken noo!"
33

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 14/01/2008 01:45:19
#39-- I always knew God was a Scotsman:))
34

Itchy,

14/01/2008 12:00:34
#35 "Case in point, our blinkered approach to global warming. Here we are after being presented with a bonny wee planet in which to live and get along in only to turn it into an uninhabitable mess. Quite possibly the Wee Frees will have the last laugh on this one. "

Global warming is a con and just an excuse to re-impose communism which really will make the planet and uninhabitable mess.


35

David Robertson,

Dundee 14/01/2008 15:37:18
Sad to see that bigotry, ignorance and prejudice are not yet dead in Scotland. Those of you who have made comments based on nothing but ignorance in the name of tolerance should be ashamed of yourselves.

Sane atheist - sorry but I cannot post on the Dawkins website - I have been banned on the grounds that my views cause 'arguments' - so much for atheist tolerance and open-mindedness!

Itchy - you are completely correct - and in the following edition I told him exactly the same thing. Its what happens when you pontificate on the basis of ignorance and second hand information. Perhaps some of the other posters should take heed!
36

Roddy Mackay,

Glasgow 14/01/2008 15:49:03
Sandy,

And all, after scrolling down it's slightly refreshing to see a post which at least hints that somebody out there actually has a little intrigue as to what the 'wee frees' are all about...

Reading the article we notice that Marc Horne is referring to what the wee frees have been charachterised as but few seem to have little recent and relevant experience of a worship service in the Free Church of Scotland, please do get in touch with me, and that applies to all who are curious on here and I'll be glad to welcome you along to a service on St Vincent Street Free Church in Glasgow or meet you for a coffee if you'd rather...

Note to all, don't knock it till you've tried it.
37

Itchy,

14/01/2008 22:31:34
#42 I've read your letter when you stated that a consistent atheist is either a Nazi or a communist.

I've also seen you try to argue the case for creationism. If I was the mod at the Dawkins website, I would stop you posting as well because I hate wasting my time with the same old rubbish repeated over and over again.

The world is a terrifying place to those who consistently follow faith. That's why your image is so dour, Reverend Robertson.
38

usedtobeafundie,

Scotland 16/01/2008 09:09:40
What Robertson is trying to do is drive his church in the direction of the likes of Mark Driscoll's Mars Hill Church in Seattle. Driscoll is famous for his "hip" ,trendy, "tuned into Gen X" approach - you know the bible in one hand and a beer in the other. In fact in the latest issue of the Free Church magazine there is a glowing interview between David Robertson and Mark Driscoll. Driscoll manages to mix hip-hop milennial culture with a "God hates you", "hell is real eternal conscious suffering" style Calvinistic theology. His macho, homophobic mysoginy is almost palpable. Driscoll's strategy might work in the USA - it wont here.

Robertson is playing with fire. Apart from his Dawkins obsession which has almost become a mental illness (over and above the fact that religion is mental illness anyway...) he seems hell bent intent on creating another schism in his own church. Keep watching over the next few years - you'll see what I mean.
39

David Robertson,

Dundee 16/01/2008 17:23:37
44. Itchy - I see from your post that the concept of truth is an unknown one to you.

a) please show me the letter you refer to.
b) And when have you seen me argue the case for creationism?
c) The world is not a terrifying place for me and I hope I have a consistent faith.

So which part of your post was true? And would you like to provide any evidence or is it really the case that your mind is made up and would prefer not to be confused by such inconvenient things as facts!

45. Glad you read the Monthly Record. And again you are completely wrong in almost every part of your post. I have no intention of turning the Free Church into a Mars Hill type church - although I do believe that we can learn from other churches and should avoid the arrogance of thinking that we alone know it all. Driscoll is not homophobic and I am not even sure what msyoginy is - maybe a spelling disease?! And interesting that when anyone answers and confutes your prophet you accuse them of being mentally ill! I wrote one book on Dawkins and have responded to the questions asked me and I am accused of being mentally ill. My obcession is with Jesus Christ - not Dawkins. Even Dundee FC come higher up the obcession food chain than Dawkins. But I guess you will believe what you want to believe - and never mind anything so inconvenient as empirical evidence and truth! Its very frustrating dealing with these fundamentalist atheist faith type people!
40

usedtobeafundie,

Scotland 16/01/2008 23:48:51
46: David Robertson

Man, where do I start?

"again you are completely wrong " Again? That was my first posting here...

"I have no intention of turning the Free Church " Didnt say you were - I said you were driving it in that direction. The direction of culturally sensitive contemporary calvinism. Your magazine has had many references to this idea.

(BTW, yes I do read the Monthly Record - I used to sit in the Free Church pews at one time. I notice that the cover of the magazine no longer has "Free Church of Scotland" written on it. Why not? Ashamed of it? Never mind, your January issue has got a nice big pic of Mark Driscoll....)

"spelling disease" OK I spelt it wrongly. Does that mean I go to hell? BTW, the word is "obsession" NOT "obCession" Actually this was pointed out to you on Dawkins' site....

"Driscoll is not homophobic" He's a Bible believer. The Bible is homophobic. Therefore he is. Besides, you just need to look at his writing - he refers to one of his erstwhile Emergent buddies in disparaging terms as a "homo-evangelical" And finishes his sarcasm dripping diatribe with the expression "this is all just gay"

Of course Driscolls best remarks concern the Ted Haggard scandal:

"Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either"

And you admire this guy!

"confutes my prophet" What makes you think he is MY prophet? Cant recall him making prophecies.
41

usedtobeafundie,

Scotland 16/01/2008 23:51:06
46: David Robertson (continued...)

"confutes my prophet" What makes you think he is MY prophet? Cant recall him making prophecies. Care to enlighten?

Yes, you ARE obcessed (whoops, obsessed..) with Dawkins. Let me tell you something. Your church website is positively creaking with postings about Dawkins. You are a main contributor and moderator of it. There are 104 postings realting to "Dawkins". There are 20 postings on all other subjects. Also, over the past year or so, until you got kicked off (wrongly IMO - you were good for a laugh) Dawkins' site, you must have spent a ridiculous amount of time posting stuff there. Great "stewardship" of time that was, wasnt it? Sounds very like obsession to me. Obsession to the point of it being a mental health issue.

Even one of your own church members, asked "is there nothing else to discuss on this forum but Dawkins?" Deuan Jones it was, if you want to ask him...

"empirical evidence" and "truth" ... the empirical evidence you need to look at is the crazy amount of time you spend on Dawkins.
42

David Robertson,

Dundee 17/01/2008 19:50:01
Hi Itchy,

I thought you said that I was trying to get the church to follow Mark Driscoll's model? Culturally sensitive contemporary Calvinism - yes. But how can it be culturally sensitive to be homophobic?

For your info the Bible is not homophobic. I believe the Bible and I have no fear of homosexuals whatsoever.

As for the amount of time re Dawkins. Yes - we allowed those who bought my book to respond to it on the Free Church website. Out of common courtesy when I am asked a question I respond. And yes you are right about the waste of time on the Dawkins site. I really was surprised how fundamentalist it was (not all but most of the posters) and there is no point in discussing with a fundamentalist who just know that they are right.
43

usedtobeafundie,

Scotland 20/01/2008 11:46:58
49: David Robertson

It was me "usedtobeafundie" who posted the comment, not "itchy".

Anyway, the Bible and homophobia. You claim it isnt homophobic. I know there are people who point to the Old Testament and various laws relating to "lying with a man as a woman" and so on, but lets ignore these - after all, they can be dismissed as part of the Old Covenant. However, in the NT letter of Jude there is a damning indictment (literally) of homosexuality:

NIV:In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

KJV:Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

"Perversion" and "going after strange flesh" in the context of S & G can ONLY refer to homosexual activity.

The letter of Jude also reinforces the concept of the "eternal conscious torment" of hell.

There is also the passage in 1st Corinthians:

1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

Note carefully that not only are "abusers of themselves with mankind" singled out, but also the "effeminate". I know of several men who you would call effeminate, but are NOT gay. Note also, that what is condemned is the condition, the orientation if you like rather than the actions. Merely BEING effeminate is enough. And since a lot of gays would be classed as "effeminate" , then presumably they are included as well.

Poor guys, condemned for being the way they were created....

The Bible, IMO, is homphobic, intolerant and misogynist.


 

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