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Revealed: BBC under attack for 'pro-SNP' coverage

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Published Date: 06 July 2008
SCOTTISH Labour chiefs have openly accused BBC journalists of pro-SNP bias in a bitter attack on the corporation's political coverage north of the border.
Labour specifically complains about BBC reporters using the phrase "London Government", claiming it is calculated to inflame anti-UK opinion.

Party chiefs have also called on the corporation to provide training on how to be impartial.

The claims, in an official letter from Scottish Labour to the Scottish Government's Broadcasting Commission, have been angrily denied by BBC journalists and were condemned as a "paranoid rant" by the SNP.

The letter was written by Labour's Scottish General Secretary, Colin Smyth. He complained: "Particularly in relation to journalists and senior editorial staff in BBC Scotland, there are legitimate concerns about the use of certain terminology in describing the political process.

"For example, references to the 'London government' are clearly designed to elicit a certain reaction and should be avoided by journalists."

He added: "Such editorial decisions place the broadcasters in the uncomfortable position of appearing to be a partial contributor to, rather than a neutral observer and interpreter of, political events.

"This is obviously unsatisfactory, and why the BBC should consider providing guidance to BBC Scotland editorial and journalistic staff to ensure both neutrality and consistency."

The letter said Labour was opposed to broadcasting becoming a devolved matter and that the party did not agree there should be a "Scottish Six" which would deliver a mixture of Scottish, UK and international news edited for Scottish audiences.

A Labour insider said: "BBC Scotland is pretty Scot Nat and anti-Labour. They give us a much harder time than they give the Nats.

"They have never forgiven us since Iraq and everyone knows it. They have been obsessed with Dungavel (detention centre] and made it their mission to get it shut down.

"They think they are the opposition and that they are the voice of civic Scotland. They are not; they are there to report the news and that is it."

Pete Murray, BBC Scotland's National Union of Journalists spokesman, said: "Journalists at BBC Scotland are strong enough and secure enough in their own professional ethics not to have to take lessons from the Labour party or any other party."

And a senior BBC Scotland news insider added: "This attack says a lot more about them than it does about us.

"I think that Labour can't get used to the fact that they are not in charge any more here and they can't tell people what to do.

"We are completely impartial and they know it. The BBC has rooms of people who make a living from devising forms of words which will be impartial and free of bias.

"We have looked at using phrases like 'the Parliament of the United Kingdom in Westminster' or 'the Government of the United Kingdom in Whitehall' and similar phrases, but they are pretty long-winded, and you want something shorter and snappier."

Pete Wishart, the Nationalists' Westminster broadcasting spokesman, said: "Labour seem happy for Scotland to be left with a second-class news service, and their rant is predictable and paranoid, as well as insulting to journalists.

"Arguing that Scotland should not have a Scottish Six, and that we should continue to have news and current affairs services that are irrelevant and at times misleading, is not a clever or considered contribution to the debate. "

A source close to First Minister Alex Salmond said: "The Labour submission is a disgrace – it is an extraordinary attack on the integrity and impartiality of BBC Scotland journalists.

"The Scottish Broadcasting Commission has been welcomed right across Scottish society as a key initiative in boosting the industry in Scotland, but for the Labour Party it has clearly struck a raw nerve."

A Scottish Tory spokesman said: "The Labour party can spend its time in the politics of grudge and grievance, or they can become like the Scottish Conservatives and look to the future of Scottish broadcasting, and back us in calling for a new Scottish digital channel which can be the best of Scotland and showcase the best of Scottish."

In a statement, a BBC Scotland spokeswoman said: "We recognise the importance of accurate and impartial language. We make every effort to ensure the appropriate terminology is used."

In the run-up to the 2007 Scottish Parliament elections, Labour sent a delegation of top party officials to give BBC Scotland a "strong warning" against being too easy on the SNP in its political coverage.

Some Labour insiders believe that many mid-ranking BBC Scotland staff are SNP sympathisers, and used a pre-election meeting to express their unease about some BBC political coverage.

Senior Labour figures in London are believed to still harbour a grievance against the BBC over the David Kelly affair and the corporation's coverage of the UK Government's case for the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Some BBC executives still believe they were unfairly treated over the affair: Greg Dyke, the director general, was forced to resign in the wake of the Hutton Report into Dr Kelly's death.


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1

Big Red,

Aberdeen 05/07/2008 23:28:06

So unbelievable I had to read this twice to see if it was true.

This from the party who plants activists in 'Question Time. The party who controls the Daily Record and The Scotsman (haha) in Scotland. The party who lies, lies and lies again to try and save their own skins.

To all who read this, Scotland needs you. Get on to www.snp.org and donate your time and/or cash.

Help stop Labour in their lying tracks.



2

monkey man,

05/07/2008 23:57:23
Does anyone even watch regional news like BBC Scotland anyway.? Its embarrassing and never to be taken seriously. Like the rest of the overwhelming majority in Scotland I switch over to ITN at 6-30 every night.
3

druidh,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:08:31
Kirsty Wark - pro Nat??


4

,

06/07/2008 00:10:21
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5

Vivas,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:12:21
Hilarious !

However, SLAB will attack and lie and attack and lie and attack and attack... It's the wounded animal syndrome. It's fighting for it's very life ... and as much as it's figure of political fun ... it will spit out as much bile, lies and hate as it can in the next 2 years. This hilarious SNP media-bias nonsense is just a symptom of that.
6

Iainbroch,

Moray 06/07/2008 00:12:51
BBC Pro - Nat LOL!

I guess the Labour Party is on the run over the Glasgow East bye bye Gordon election
7

The Moog,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:14:43
I can't even believe I am reading this story after the hugely labour biased question time on Thursday!

There has never been an SNP bias in the media in Scotland. Time for Leibour to realise you LOST the election!!!
8

,

06/07/2008 00:17:55
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9

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 06/07/2008 00:17:56
BBC is accused of bias by Labour,SNP posters on this site accusing the BBC and the Scottish Media of bias.
I didn't hear any complaints from either when BBC Scotland and the majority of Scottish journalists were actively promoting devolution.
10

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 06/07/2008 00:18:08
LABOUR ARE LOSING IT BIG-STYLE.

Another example of where they are in denial. They have been in power too long in Scotland, and these politically motivated remarks are a symptom of that. They no longer speak for the people of Scotland, and they no longer stand up for Scotland. Compare this outburst with the recent findings of the BBC Trustees, charged with canvassing opinion about the BBC in Scotland. They are miles apart, but this is no surprise: Labour have lost touch with the people they represent.

I hope the good people of Glasgow's East End have discovered this for themselves, and that they don't vote again for the donkey with the red rosette.
11

The Moog,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:19:29
Mercutio - remind me when that was? Certainly not on this rag!!!
12

Rasco,

Inverness 06/07/2008 00:20:24
I thought the 1st of April was past.
13

Yeti,

06/07/2008 00:23:44
The fact that all political parties, when in power, accuse the BBC of bias would seem to suggest that the BBC is, if fact, fair
14

Jimmy the Pie,

06/07/2008 00:23:44
I must have been hallucinating watching Question Time then!!
15

monkey man,

06/07/2008 00:25:06
Scottish Labour have really got their opponents sporrans in a twist.! lol
16

The Moog,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:25:18
you must have been Jim - that wasn'y folks from musselburgh that were in the audience....a carefully selected few....
17

,

06/07/2008 00:26:03
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18

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:28:42
Labour are getting worse by the day.

BBC in general are biased against the SNP and in favour of the Union yet the SNP have to deal with it.

To me, 'London Government' is reasonable. It is a Government...in London afterall.
19

monkey man,

06/07/2008 00:29:18
#17

Maybe that's because Holyrood isn't a Government and never will be taken seriously as one either.

Westminster is the only recognised seat of Government to normal people.
20

The Moog,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:32:13
i don't consider someone with the name Monkey to be normal
21

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:33:37
monkey man.

Are you Gordon Brown? Your name gives it away...
22

monkey man,

06/07/2008 00:34:46
#20

The average intelligence of even the lower simians is higher than your average BNP and SNP voter. No doubt about that....
23

The Moog,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 00:36:01
That is only your opinion....which doesn't count for much really.........
24

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:37:07
monkey man.

#22

and yet the SNP are in Government in Scotland and high in the polls compared to other parties.

What does that say about the other parties?
25

,

06/07/2008 00:40:22
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26

,

06/07/2008 00:42:20
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27

Senga Jean,

06/07/2008 00:43:14
I am Scottish. I pay a license fee. I wish to know if a news report refers to London Government or Scottish Government. I would in fact only like to be governed from Scotland but until that day dawns I wish to know the difference.
28

,

06/07/2008 00:43:37
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29

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:44:20
monkey man.

#25

You are one idiot. You are a complete joke and shows how popular the SNP are since you want to link them to the BNP and racism to damage their reputation
30

,

06/07/2008 00:44:53
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31

,

06/07/2008 00:45:54
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32

monkey man,

06/07/2008 00:46:46
#26

Wee Fatty Salmond can call the laughable sham of Holyrood anything he likes, even as pompous and grand a title as a "government", but nobody takes it or him in particular seriously.
33

Schot,

06/07/2008 00:47:09
Labour attacked the BBC for being 'anti-war' at a time they were the most pro-war channel, according to Stirling Uni & (I think) Cardiff Uni analysis.

Every corrupt, unfit party claims bias even when that bias is in fact towards them. It's called propaganda.
34

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:47:47
#28

London Olympics is expected to cost over 20 bill from the original 9 bill.

Is Labour any better at counting?

35

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:50:20
#31

The SNP are actually on target. The Tories also support this part of the SNP policy and since they are not complaing then I guess they are on target.

Afterall, only Labour think the SNP have the magic powers of creating 1000 new policemen/woman in day one of Government
36

,

06/07/2008 00:50:58
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37

Jock Fox,

06/07/2008 00:50:59
#27,

I agree.

I watch BBC News and wonder which government they are talking about.
38

,

06/07/2008 00:52:27
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39

,

06/07/2008 00:52:52
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40

Jock Fox,

06/07/2008 00:53:29
And then I punch myself for thinking that the Pretend Parly could ever be properly described as the presence of a government.
41

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:53:41
#36

You represent the small minority who are not happy with the SNP Gov, the very small minority.
42

,

06/07/2008 00:53:43
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43

CandymanVXR,

06/07/2008 00:54:15













Saor Alba :)
44

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 00:54:57
#39

The SNP are very bad at playing the racism card then since several SNP figures were born in England, idiot.
45

Jock Fox,

06/07/2008 00:55:03
#39,

Margaret Curran went to a school the local electorate will approve of then?
46

Jock Fox,

06/07/2008 00:58:50
W1lly Wonka has a Corsa with only 42,000 miles on the clock!
47

monkey man,

06/07/2008 01:00:59
# 44

Sheer tokenism. Even the SNP's fellow nationalists and compadres the BNP have had Asian candidates at elections. Its embarrassing that Scotland has such an extremist political party as the SNP.
48

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 01:01:05
#38

I would like you to compare the recruitment levels of police from the last Gov Administration with the SNP's first year in Gov.

You will find out the SNP have managed to recruit more police then past Governments and also notice that some policemen and woman are retiring so it is just bad timing.

Of course you are out to make the SNP look bad at every corner. Does it matter if they are recruiting more police then ever since on paper the amount retiring are out weighing the amount recruited?
49

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 01:03:30
#44

You really are an idiot. The SNP and BNP are not related. To be fair the party names should say it all.

So, which SNP MSP took your seat at the last elections? You sound like one of those whinging Labour msp'S
50

,

06/07/2008 01:08:14
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51

monkey man,

06/07/2008 01:14:59
#49

ALL "nationalist" parties all share the same political DNA, as do the BNP and SNP. They rely and subsist on to exist the following ; insularity, parochialism and a hatred of a certain grouping as a scapegoat.

Also, what is the difference between the rise in highly reported physical attacks in Scotland against English people than other similar attacks against minorities in England by other racists. ?
52

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 01:16:41
#50

There is no Government that could possibly plan exact numbers of people retiring from work. People as individuals choose.

The SNP have invested and their plans are bringing in more recruits then past Governments. In the long run we will eventually make up for the police who decided to retire and we will gain the extra 1000.

The Tories supported the SNP budget for several reasons, one of them being that 1000 new police will be recruited.

If they are not complaining then the SNP must be getting it right.

You spend wayyy to much time listening to Labour. You don't like the SNP that is fair enough but maybe you should listen to the other opposition parties and maybe then you can be told the right info.
53

ThomasP,

06/07/2008 01:21:16
#51

You really are an idiot. Considering there are different types of Nationalism, all different then what you have said is complete bull.

"Also, what is the difference between the rise in highly reported physical attacks in Scotland against English people than other similar attacks against minorities in England by other racists.?"

Evidence please.

Roughly 50% of the English population in Scotland voted for the SNP you idiot.

If you check where the SNP have their seats you will also discover a large ENGLISH population.

You really are an idiot.
54

,

06/07/2008 01:24:59
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55

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/07/2008 01:32:11
Let's play Spot The Professional Plants.

I spy with my little eye something smelling like Number 6 and Monkey Man.

Best ignored.
56

Willie Macleod,

Wick 06/07/2008 01:35:47
All political parties have complained about bias in the BBC at one time or another. Whats new.
57

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/07/2008 01:37:03
Na, na, na, na, na, na. Come on Monkey Man and Number 6, get out of your closets and attack me.
58

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 06/07/2008 01:39:51
Bed time. Good night to all decent people. Indecent is fine by me as long as I don't get to see it - apart from that tasty bird next door.
59

Edward,

06/07/2008 01:45:10
Typical trick by Labour to try and muzzle BBC Scotland journalists in the run up to the by election.
They tried the very same in the run up to last years election.
60

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 06/07/2008 01:46:46

Hey monkey man you sound like you are in pain I would like to donate £2.00 to the Labour party and maybe they can get you some elastoplast which will protect your knuckles as they drag across the fround
61

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 06/07/2008 02:13:34
Monkey Man have you put your name forward for nomination as the Labour candidate in Glasgow East. They are looking desperately for anyone, the might even consider simians as this point.

We could then see if that old adage about Monkey's in Red Rosettes holds true. You might do better than a human candidate, you could promise the voters that if elected that the only you would be ordering from John Lewis to furnish your London Home would be a tire swing.
62

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 02:20:28
Are there no depths to which the labour party will plunge?

Tomorrow morning it's straight down to the bank - 1000 pounds telegraphic transfer into my mothers account to be donated to the SNP.

Labour ba$tards

63

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 02:23:07
Monkeyt Man - you are an A-Grade To$$er

Scottish nationalism = Nazi Germany

British nationalism (brought to you courtesy of the 'socialist' (ahem) Labour party = Good, virtuos and upstanding.

What a tool.
64

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 06/07/2008 03:05:14
51 monkey man, You are a complete to ss er.
My wife is from an "ethnic" background, so my would I be racist against her and people of her colour, living in Scotland.
You are a thick braindead scumbag. How dare you, you piece of trash accuse me of being racist, f@ck off.
Voteing for the SNP is because I feel my country has been ripped off by the London goverment.
The SNP are the party fighting for Scotland, unlike the scum that misruled Scotland for generations. Either you are a English tw@t who hates the Scots or you are an Unionist meathead who can't stand the fact that the Scottish people voted in the SNP.
65

Maisie from Morningside,

06/07/2008 03:54:56
It seems the Labour Party is having a sort of panic attack.
Perhaps if they devised some policies instead of whingeing we might take them seriously.
We're all well aware that the SNP is implementing policies which the (Scottish) Labour Party would do if only the London Government would let them.

Whoops - now I'm doing it!!!!
66

jarmon,

houston texas 06/07/2008 05:00:39
I grew up an american.And i grew up proud of my dad's scottish roots,and proud of the scottish people.And all of y'all should be proud of your country.Isn't it time for scotland to stand on it's own again,to be it's own man? The scots are a special people who shouldn't be enslaved to the foreign government in london. In the neighborhood i live in,we know what's better for us than the state government knows. And the scots know what is better for them than London does.
67

Guga II,

Rockall 06/07/2008 05:56:10
Just because the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North british Branch) are paranoid, doesn't mean that everyone is not out to get them.
68

EWB,

UK 06/07/2008 06:57:57
Anyone who watched "Question Time" from Musselburgh last Thursday would have seen a man in a green shirt in the audience given two bites of the cherry on a Scottish political issue. He claimed that the majority of Scots were not interested in independence and had more air time on the issue than Nicola Sturgeon.
69

Geoff,

sa 06/07/2008 07:02:46
The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation biased in favour of the SNP? Sounds like Turkeys voting for Christmas!
70

P Rayner.,

Wuerzburg 06/07/2008 07:03:12
Irrespective of this particular complaint from Labour I certainly think the BBC is working to a political (correct) agenda not in the interests of the mainstream of British people. It should not be their function to support any political party nor should it be their function to promote homosexuality, womens issues, the EU, Africa or Asia. Their world service compares very unfavourably with, say, CNN or Deutsche Wella, giving little UK news while being seemingly obsessed with America, Africa and Asia. It seems to me that as long as this organisation stays within the law it can promote what it likes, but let it raise its own finances other than from the public.
71

Geoff,

sa 06/07/2008 07:06:47
67 Jarmon-what a confused post. Scottish people"enslaved to the foreign London Government..." The London Government is led by a SCOT Jarmon. Also you say " we know whats better for us than the State government"? Do you advocate the seccesion of Texas from the Union?
72

Geoff,

sa 06/07/2008 07:10:51
71 P Rayner-good post although it must be conceded that it is extraordinarily difficult to present news-particularly political-in a manner that appears to be objective to all. Euronews- a sattelite link TV channel that we receive in SA is my idea of a close to neutral broadcaster.
73

Forward not Back,

06/07/2008 07:33:21
Labour complains that the BBC is biased towards the SNP.

Is this the dictionairy definition of "chutzpah"?
74

,

06/07/2008 07:34:25
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75

Forward not Back,

06/07/2008 07:44:33
#75 - I think Americans are "special".
76

Robbie 2,

06/07/2008 07:46:11

54 monkey man,
Re your misuse of the word ‘Nationalism’. The SNP is the Scottish NATIONAL Party. Often used throughout the World when two or more parties unite as in the New Zealand National Party which was formed by the unification of the Liberal and Reform Parties and although which at present are the opposition, have ruled in New Zealand since their formation for more years than any other party. --Absolutely nothing (as any normal sensible person would know) with National Socialism (was that a socialist party?)
Now Mr monkey man, look up the history of ‘Nationalism’ read about the Nationalist Revolutionn in 1848 throughout Europe. Nationalists was aligned with Liberalism against Imperialism and Colonial Empires.
It inspired freedom loving people against the repressive regimes of the Russian Empire, The Austrian- Hungarian Empire, The Ottoman Empire and of course the British Empire.
These were the enemies of small sovereign states, wishing self-determination and peaceful existence with their neighbours - not conquest and war.
Remember what causes ‘health problems’
"Labour MP (David Marshall) spent £500,000 of taxpayers' money running office from home staffed by wife"
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1032385/Labour-MP-spent-500-000-taxpayers-money-running-office-home-staffed-wife.html





77

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 07:49:45
Well said Robbie 2 - there really is little point trying to debate with him - he is a troll - much like Number 6.

NUMBER 6 and MONKEYMAN

Heres your homework:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5leiwEiTM
78

Linda,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 07:49:47
Don't make me laugh. BBC is stuffed with Labour sympathisers and has never been pro SNP. At Westminster elections there is no attempt to balance coverage going out to Scotland. When last did two Nationalists appear on same panel in Question Time?
Why are audience drafted in from England but not vice versa when Question Time comes from Scotland?
79

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 07:51:56
My next door neighbour is a leading figure in the Queensland National Party.

Just excuse me for 5 minutes folks whilst I duck over the fence to give her a shot of my jackboots
80

JT,

06/07/2008 07:53:41
What a complete joke, that labour accused the bbc of bias towards the SNP up here! Well heres news for you SNP are trying to run the country, no thanks to you and your london cronies. You have never recognised that the people for whatever reason voted SNP in. Since when did the bbc did impartiality - never. Its not just Scotland that they treat like this, its pretty much everywhere outside the perimeter of the M25. I dont even watch the local news anymore as its not worthy. During the election and the first year, the media has been soo pro labour and anti SNP its been embarassing. Of course politicians make promises that they dont keep, its not just one party that does that, so why is that the media report that the SNP are only doing this. Did labour not lie and cheat their way??
81

Kenny A,

06/07/2008 07:57:19
Bloody Hell, this one takes the biscuit and the whole bakery. Must have been in a different dimention recently.
82

P Rayner.,

Wuerzburg. 06/07/2008 08:01:46
GEOFF, sa, Geoff I don't think it so difficult for a broadcaster to report items without bias but in doing so those items may tend to be bland. In this day and age bland reporting may not be in the interests of a commercial broadcaster. We are after all living in the age of Hollywood. For a public broadcaster however it is essential. Its primary function should be to present news , entertainment and items of interest to its paymasters, the British people, without taint. As a side issue it should not be its function to pay its contributors salaries far in excess of what its paymasters could only dream of.
83

jdships,

06/07/2008 08:08:10
2 Monkey Man

You are having a laff - watch the "Amateur Half Hour" at 18.30 you must be kidding.

This Labour party quote
"BBC Scotland is pretty Scot Nat and anti-Labour. They give us a much harder time than they give the Nats.

"They have never forgiven us since Iraq and everyone knows it. They have been obsessed with Dungavel (detention centre] and made it their mission to get it shut down.

"They think they are the opposition and that they are the voice of civic Scotland. They are not; they are there to report the news and that is it."

shows just how much they have lost credibility.

If it was 1st April I would think it was a joke !!!
84

mr angry,

ayrshire 06/07/2008 08:12:34
Hard to believe that people actually tried to debate with the two thick plants that hogged this thread. Pathetic cretins that they are , they only survive if people bite.
85

,

06/07/2008 08:13:09
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86

,

06/07/2008 08:17:47
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87

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 08:21:49
Whenever any government starts complaining about media impartiality, especially in attacks on the BBC, then it is a clear indicator it is in terminal decline!
88

LEAL,

06/07/2008 08:29:15
Very childish by Labour.Surely they must realise that,because support for independence is growing across Scotland and in every walk of life,there will be a growing number of SNP sopporters working for the BBC.The crucial thing is that they dont let that affect their work.Are the Labour party embarrassed,or indeed ashamed,that Scotland is ultimately run from London,England?The other media in Scotland ie newspapers,are going to find it increasingly difficult to find journalists to churn out biased articles against the SNP because soon there wont be that many unionist leaning journalists left.
89

Kenny A,

06/07/2008 08:33:29
Monkey man

What exactly is your problem.

90

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 08:37:58


Time bomb 1
Those mid ranking managers at the BBC who are all, to a man, pesky nats will in a few years not be middle mangers but senior managers. Can you imagine how much 'bias' there will be in 10 years time?

Time bomb 2
Support for the union is strongest amongst the over 65's. Support for Independence is strongest amongst the young. Old people die.
91

,

06/07/2008 08:44:27
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92

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:47:20
31 Troll

As I posted before its not the SNP nor the Scottish governments job to recruit police officers its the job of the police force itself.
Its the job of the Scottish government to give them the means by funding to allow them to recruit the extra officers they need. That funding has been allocated.
So why dont you ask ACPOS where the extra officers are the ball is now in their court not the SNPs.
As you well know you sh*t stirring deceitful little troll.
93

roughrider,

Glasgow 06/07/2008 08:47:52
Labour are now suffering from paranoid delusions.
I think the phyciatrist they acquired should be doing his job properly and section the whole bunch of the idiotic liebour lunatics.
To suggest the EBC are pro SNP just shows how f*****g
mad labour have become.
Desperate stuff from desperate tossers.
94

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:48:33
Monkey man

Is there any purpose to your posts at all?
95

pehman,

sussex 06/07/2008 08:49:00

Well I sit back and watch which candidate gets interviewed by paxman / Humphery's and which gets interviewed by wark, then we can all judge the bbc
96

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 06/07/2008 08:50:05
If the BBC is referring to the government of which Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister, they should say "British Government" or "UK Government", not the "London government".

That isn't a question of political bias, but of clarity and accuracy.
97

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:51:37
36 Troll

A sweeping statement which of course hasnt been corroborated with any substance.
No explanation as to how you reach your conclusion or any list of failures. Of course any such list would be wide open for correction and exposed for the lies they would surely be.
Like I said the other day you have nothing to offer just a diversion away from the story.
98

Jimmy the Pie,

06/07/2008 08:51:50
Where is AM2 these days????
99

Denis,

06/07/2008 08:51:54
It's almost inevitable that the BBC will be biased when it recruits most of its staff through the pages of the Guardian.
100

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:52:51
38

Like I said complain to the police force they have the funding now its down to them to do the recruiting.
101

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:57:55
39

So unlike your posting today eh?

SNP=BNP when the BNP are as unionist as they come?

Youre not even a bright troll.

And the idiots guide to Scottish history is what they teach in Scottish schools. I bet you were an A student in that subject eh?
102

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 08:59:50
47

So why havent they managed to attract such an obvious extremist like yourself? arent all extremists attracted to extremist parties? which one attracts you?
103

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:01:07
50

Why so? its not the Scottish governments job to retain retire or recruit police officers is it?
104

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:02:58
51

I suspect its you who attacks all these people when youre released from your cage to go to wee wee and jobby.
105

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:04:09
54

Why dont you tell us?
106

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:05:57
72

If they vote for it why not?
107

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 06/07/2008 09:08:47
#78 "Nationalists was aligned with Liberalism against Imperialism and Colonial Empires.
It inspired freedom loving people against the repressive regimes of the Russian Empire, The Austrian- Hungarian Empire, The Ottoman Empire and of course the British Empire."

Ermmmm - ever heard of the National Socialist Party - the NAZI party. That was inspired by nationalism - and the main strategy for gaining power was to incite hatred of the neighbouring countries, to claim a 'blood bond, between all 'true' Germans - which made them 'special', the 'chosen race'. Then identifying a minority in Germany - the Jews - and projecting all of Germany's problems onto them - leading as we all know to the holocaust.

Scotland is of course never going to see a new nazi party - but I remember English homes being burned down in the 1980s; I remember a lad from Balerno being murdered by his mates after watching Braveheart - just because he was 'English'. Elements of nationalism are always the same: we 'of the blood' are special; the other's who are not 'of the blood' are the cause of all our problems' 'they' have stolen our land, our birthright' , our heritage - we must drive out those who are not 'true Scots', and take back the land, become pure again, cleanse ourselves of everything that is not 'truly Scottish'.

It is a philosophy of hatred and division. You can try and camouflage it anyway you want, but anyone who has ever seen nationalists in action, after a few drinks,. knows this is true. Hatred, division, separation.
108

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:09:47
75 troll

We are special to us. You of course being a cringing sycophant wouldnt be able to relate to that.
Youre too busy being deceived and deceitful to notice anything else.
I think that post really exposes you for what you are.
109

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 09:11:59
#2. Monkey Man. If you never watch it, how do you know that it's embarrasing?

Don't stop posting, since AM2's demise, we need reminders of the countless people who slavishly vote as their parents did becauise their minds have been closed and they have lost the ability to have meaningful debate.
110

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:12:19
94

You are obviously the exception to the rule then eh?
111

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:13:06
101

Posting as Number 6 and monkey man where else?
112

Russell M,

Stirling 06/07/2008 09:14:18
I'm an incomer to these parts and my sense is that the BBC lives up (or down) to its name, British Broadcasting Corporation. Auntie Beeb seems to believe it has a deity given right to test to destruction any Nationalist tendencies before giving them a pass.

As for Labour, which used to represent those who succeeded by blood, sweat and talent. Labour was so traumatised by Thatcher et al. that they became "New" and took a page from the Tories i.e. the path to wealth and power is nepotism.

What Scotland really needs is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, not a clone from London. A government that trusts its own lawful citizens. Not a government that proposes prohibition and proscription as the solution for every social ill thereby turning an ever widening circle of people into criminals.
113

WilsonB,

pacific quay 06/07/2008 09:16:19
"London government" - that's not all the BBC are up to. They describe people who phone in as from Scotland as if it were another country like France or, god forbid, Germany, therby subliminally encouraging an independence vote when the referendum comes. When was the last time you heard someone from Crawley described as phoning from England? See that proves it. Fly.
114

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:23:07
And of course the attack and accusation of BBC bias to the SNP ONLY comes from the Liebour party and nowhere else on the f*cking planet.
I would have said you couldnt make this up but obviously you can.
Have they nothing positive to give to this country at all?
115

bluehead,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 09:23:36
this is final proof that the labour pile are trembling in their boot's, hysteria is beginning to show
the labour, over the hill gang, are finished,
they have completely destroyed this country,it is now beyond repair!!
116

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:25:54
115

That isnt their remit nor reason for broadcasting. Its not their job to play politics its their job to report news and views in an objective and neutral manner not pass judgement on the news and views expressed by others thats our job as the public.
117

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:30:39
DOUGIE FROM BRISBANE
"Time bomb 1
Those mid ranking managers at the BBC who are all, to a man, pesky nats will in a few years not be middle mangers but senior managers. Can you imagine how much 'bias' there will be in 10 years time?

Time bomb 2
Support for the union is strongest amongst the over 65's. Support for Independence is strongest amongst the young. Old people die"


That's a good point. But isn't it the underlying truth that people get more unionist as they get older? So, when the young get old and the middle management get to be senior managers, the likelihood is that they'll lose the desire for independence. Or not.

MONKEY MAN
Monkey man's points are clearly intended to be inflammatory but there is a nugget of truth in them and I have yet to see a clear refutation of them. Good opportunity here. Whilst the SNP may not be racist (in fact I am certain it is not), Scottish racists are inevitably SNP. In the same way that the Tory party attracts right-wing nutters simply because it is the party most closely aligned to their ideals, even at a distance. What does the SNP do to park this for once and for all?
118

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:32:13
110

Yes we have and we also noted the idiotic attempt to provoke arguement with the comparrison between the nazis and the SNP.
I myself will acknowledge this link when we see concentration camps springing up all over Scotland filling up with English "white settlers" and tourists and I get a brand new shiny black or brown uniform which fits like a glove and shows off my manly physique for the girlies but until then I wont be able to see how this link can be justified can you?
119

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:39:06
110

That post was the perfect example of an incitement to hatred division and sick vile predudice worse than anything you have just accused Scottih nationalists of encouraging.

You dont remember Jack sh*t about "English homes" being burned down in the 1980s.

"I remember a lad from Balerno being murdered by his mates after watching Braveheart - just because he was 'English'"

The only people on these blogs who express division racisim and biggoted hatred are "BRITISH NATIONALISTS"
Like yourself and that post is the perfect example and proof positive of what I say.
120

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:42:33
120

That's a good point. But isn't it the underlying truth that people get more unionist as they get older.

No unless you have the scientific evidence to show us different?

How many old people in Ireland right now are voting to get Ireland back into the union?
How many old people are campaigning anywhere in the world right now to join the Union of UK?
It seems the majority of old people in the world favour their independence so your analysis is frankly full of sh*t as usual.
121

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:44:31
121/122

Come on guys - don't just deny it. Explain why it isn't true. There's plenty more where that came from, in particular with links across the pond. This is where you get to stand up and explain clearly and sensibly and calmly why the SNP is not about this kind of thing.

110 in particular obviously knows very little of how Nazism started, because the shiny uniforms only came along when it was too late to do anything about it.

Over to you.
122

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:47:17
123

The whole point is that I don't have that scientific evidence. It isn't the kind of thing which could be proven by scientific evidence. You could ask older people if they had nationalist sympathies in their youth, but that doesn't prove anything. However, it's worthy of debate. If you have any debate to offer, that is.


" so your analysis is frankly full of sh*t as usual."

How about trying to keep it civil? And where is your evidence for "as usual" please?
123

For Scotlands Future,

Vot for the SNP 06/07/2008 09:47:54
Just before the May 2007 election Labour made the same accusation. Now, just before the Glasgow by-election we get the same thing. Labour running scared again.

The suggestion that the EBC is pro-SNP is so ludicrous, it MUST be a Labour Election ploy.
124

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:48:07
110

"It is a philosophy of hatred and division. You can try and camouflage it anyway you want, but anyone who has ever seen nationalists in action, after a few drinks,. knows this is true. Hatred, division, separation"

I see this comparrison with "BRITISH NATIONALISM" right enough which gave the world the biggest empire it has ever had, created by war, death, destruction, theft, rascism, division of nations, division of ethnic groups, religious biggotry etc etc.

You have described the "BRITISH ESTABLISHMENT" to a tee and exposed yourself for what you really are with your support of it.
125

,

06/07/2008 09:50:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
126

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:50:25
125

So if you cant prove the statement then what makes you believe it? bias?
What about old people living in independent countries where is there expression of wanting to join within a union of nations? why dont the old people of Ireland express their need and want to rejoin the UK?
127

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:52:30
127

This deepens the argument well as the Scots played a very significant part in the building of that empire. Lots of Scottish place names across the world and lots of Scottish surnames in the West Indies are testament to that. And not for the most lovable of reasons either.

So WHY is the SNP going to be so different? Don't just deny - explain.
128

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:54:07
129

If you read it carefully with your eyes, you'll see that it isn't a statement, it's a question for debate. Please don't leap immediately on to the defensive. That's immature. This is an opportunity for you to explain your position and win support, not exclude it. Go for it.
129

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:54:21
124

The US fought a war of Independence to get away from the very issues the rascist biggoted idiot tweedmouth listed. Does that make the US guilty of his accusations?
Every country which gained its independence and "seperation" from the British empire is obviously guilty of Tweedmouths accusations.
Apparently most of the nations in the world stand accused by Tweedmouth because they had the audacity to break away from the UK.
130

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:54:53
131

I just did now its your time to answer.
131

Daviep,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 09:56:07
It has become absolutely clear to me that there has been a viscious and public-money funded campaign by Labour and that knives have been stuck in the BBC time and again ALL OVER the UK ...the latest I read was the proposed "break-up" the BBC Anthony Jay(?) one of the ruling elite's(?) many litany's why we would be better off with a dreadful American style TV and radio..... and every minister responsible has had some comment clearly determined to turn us into an ABC Fox or God forbid CNN clone news/TV service....

The extent of this constantly stated bias is deliberate and astounding considering the quality generally of the BBC's output and shows the deep seated paranoia that grips almost every utterance by Chairman Brown Breeks and his motely crew....All over the world people listen love(?) and generally respect Dear Old Auntie's point of view,,,,but in this almost police state we are fed political utterances / information every day ...issued from the propoganda head quarters of control freak Labour.and the BBC even print issue it????...GB says this and GB says that(mostly about OTHER parts of the world..mind you)...better start on the obituary Flash Gordon the bells the bells ...shame on you all that would deny us the right to think for ourselves and have another point of view...watch for knife GB
132

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 09:58:10
128

Please try not to be rude. I'm asking you to stand up and explain why that assertion that was made above simply isn't the case. I'm not going to do that because I didn't make the assertion in the first place. It should be quite straightforward for you to do this without denial and invective, so why don't you?

What I see here is serious accusations being made (Nazis, BNP, for heaven's sake) and nobody actually being able to provide a serious, rational debate to counter those accusations. Unless you can prove me wrong that is?
133

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 09:59:09
JenJen

"That's a good point. But isn't it the underlying truth that people get more unionist as they get older? So, when the young get old and the middle management get to be senior managers, the likelihood is that they'll lose the desire for independence. Or not.
"

That's a fair question to ask - the troll tried to allude to the same point.

There is no doubt people become more conservative when they become older, however they also become more worldly. I would suggest that those who become feart as they become older are cancelled out by those that have seen labour lying throughout their lives and get pushed towards independence as they are sick and tired of bieng shafted.

The primary reason for the over 65's being the strongest demographic for unionists are 'ties that bind' conversly this explains younger peoples lack of interest in the union.

If you are over 65 you have living memories of WW2 where Britain and it's constituent nations stood together against a common foe. If you are a man around this age you have also served national service. You will also have memories of Empire. The Empire defined Britain whereas now Europe defines the countries of Britain.

International tourism and travel cannot be underestimated as a force that drives Independence also. People travel abroad and realise that the prefix 'great' does not belong before Britain, they see that other countries citizens enjoy superior living standards.

Lastly most over 65's either do not hjave access to or are not bothered about the information age we live in, conversly the young have known nothing else. It is more difficult for Independence to be suppresed when there is free and fair exchange of ideas as in this blog (but apparently not in this paper). Also people can readily compare Scotland's lot with other small nations - and it dosen't stack up nicely for the union.

All of the above are gradual changes but none-the-less significant drivers for Independence. The ide
134

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 09:59:55
134

Not anymore if you want a clearer less bias report on most issues then watch Al Jezeera news channel and see the difference in how international and internal news item are dealt with.
I learned more about the machinations of PFI by watching one program of Al Jazeera than years of watching UK news channels.
Dont take my word for it make your own comparrisons.
135

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:02:40
136

Being "Conservative" and unionist is not the same thing there are "Conservatives" living within indepedent nations and none of them seem to be clammering to join in any union with anybody else.
In fact our "Conservatives" are trying really hard to seperate us from the EU especially the older ones.
US conservatives are not campaigning to join the UK Union nor the EU are they?
136

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 10:04:50
My post @136 got cut short.

Just wanted to lsay that these changes are slow but tidal in force and must be causing a lot of concern amongst unionists. This 'concern' could explain the utterly ridiculous claims by the labour party about BBC bias.

The labour party are taking the pi$$ out of the democratic process. PR,spin and black ops out of control.
137

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:05:03
138

No I think the expression "white settler" is a silly joke expression and non offensive do you know anybody who has been offended by it? I have never heard of the expression "white incommer" and have never used it myself so I cant comment on that one.
138

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 06/07/2008 10:05:56
It's a strange feeling watching the unionist's posts, thrashing about in their death throes.

Monkey Man & Number 6 are one & the same, surely?!

Whether or not Labour retain east Glasgow, the Labour party are now discredited, in total disarray, the Tories down south WILL win the next General Election, middle England will see to that.
139

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 10:07:13
I think this sums it all up quite nicely:-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGfKggjTxE&feature=related
140

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 10:07:30
136

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out especially as the upcoming "old" generation will have experienced a much more cynical approach generally to politics than the previous one.

What happens over there in Queensland - do the well-publicised pockets of extremism there tend to wither or does it carry on into older years? My impression was that it was the old timers who were embittered about multi-culturalism (which seems to be the trigger for the extremism) whilst younger people were much more relaxed with it, so I guess that supports your theory. (All based on a few chats so forgive me if I'm generalising.)

And no, I'm not suggesting all the SNP are extremist, even if some of their representatives on here appear to be so.
141

James.com,

06/07/2008 10:10:02
When all else fails; shoot the messinger.
142

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 06/07/2008 10:11:18
Have you seen the film Atonement? The great English victory at Dunkirk.
143

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/07/2008 10:14:56
#30 I don't think that "British Government" is the correct name either.
144

SEUMAS,

fearn 06/07/2008 10:15:18
Here is an uncontroversial comment--THE CLOCK IS TICKING!
145

Richardinho,

06/07/2008 10:17:49
#130 It's not about niceness, it's about power. Power for the people of Scotland, not for England.
146

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:22:21
145

I have never met a single Scotsman in my life who was offended by being called Jock my father was called Jock by my mother his name was John. I have been called Jock many times down South and it never even occured to me to be offended.
147

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:24:05
145

If you want to see something really offensive then read post 110.
148

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:26:25
145

I have even been called "Scottie" which made me cringe but didnt feel offensive it just had a yuckie feel to it.
149

,

06/07/2008 10:30:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
150

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 10:32:55
#150

"Niceness?" "Power?" With some honourable exceptions, this appears to be typical of the standard of debate around here.

This kind of public incoherence, though no doubt well-meaning, is a serious risk to Scotland's political reputation. What do you think international visitors make of all this pie-throwing stuff?

If I were a cynic, I might think The Scotsman hosted these forums specifically to illustrate how immature the debate around Scottish politics can be, and guys like you are falling right into their trap. Woolly, muddle-headed, confrontational - what favours do you think you're doing for your political stance, whatever it is?

Some guy once said something about "see ourselves as ithers see us" - take a long, cool look at yourself, why don't you? You aren't doing your country or your politics any favours at all.
151

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:35:08
155

I only insult those who provoke it whereas you provoke in order to be insulted so you can complain about it after.
F*ck off troll.
152

Robbie 2,

06/07/2008 10:35:56
#110 Tweedmouth,
“ Ermmmm - ever heard of the National Socialist Party - the NAZI party.” Of course I and everyone else have heard of the NAZI Party, who only gained strength because of the Treatment of Germany after WW I. A war cause by those same mad imperialistic powers; those powers like Austria which did not wish small nations to be free and sovereign but to be subdued by the mighty centralised super amalgamate of nations. Power, weapons, colonialism - think balance of power think jingoism, think everything to do with Empire and the antithesis of freedom for all nations think war.

You claim the Nazis main strategy for gaining power was to incite hatred of the neighbouring countries, to claim a 'blood bond, between all 'true' Germans - which made them 'special', the 'chosen race'. Yet they allied with the Japanese, (and its puppet states), the Italians, the Romanians, Bulgaria and to some extent, Finland and even Iraq. You know (if you have ever studied the subject) that Germany or the Nazis were imperialistic and would have subdued smaller states but ‘ nationalists (and socialists) in these lands fought tried top fight back. Those who did not were considered traitors - such as Pétain of Vichy France and Quisling. In Norway.
Now please do me the courtesy of reading and understanding my post (or any post) before replying.
Nationalism (as I mentioned) as a [political force in the middle of the 19th century was aligned with Liberal aspirations for freedom from the rule of Empires, try Jean Sigmann’s ‘1848- The Romantic and Democratic Revolutions in Europe” or Professor Robert Binkley’s, ‘Realism and Nationalism 1852 - 1871’
There were Liberal risings in major centres right throughout Europe against oppressive imperialistic regimes and empires. Only in Britain was revolution diverted through the ruthless suppression of movements such as the Chartists. Small, nations suffered by having their seats of government out with their birder but gradually,
153

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:36:08
154

Can you provide any references or instances?
154

Richardinho,

06/07/2008 10:36:27
#156 Haven't a clue what you're on about, mate.
155

Robbie 2,

NZ 06/07/2008 10:38:11
#110 Tweedmouth, Please do me the courtesy of reading and understanding my post (or any post) before replying.
Nationalism (as I mentioned) as a [political force in the middle of the 19th century was aligned with Liberal aspirations for freedom from the rule of Empires, try Jean Sigmann’s ‘1848- The Romantic and Democratic Revolutions in Europe” or Professor Robert Binkley’s, ‘Realism and Nationalism 1852 - 1871’
There were Liberal risings in major centres right throughout Europe against oppressive imperialistic regimes and empires. Only in Britain was revolution diverted through the ruthless suppression of movements such as the Chartists. Small, nations suffered by having their seats of government out with their birder but gradually, Greece, Belgium, the states of the Austrian and Ottoman Empires gained sovereignty which virtually ALL nations have inspired to. One doesn’t hear of the Scandinavian countries want to cede their right to self determination and have their capital moved ‘to another land’. Similarly no one in New Zealand would dream of having their foreign policy imposed from Canberra, (that would have gotten us into the Iraqi War).
To ever try to associate National Parties such as the New Zealand National Party or the Scottish National Party is more than just mischievous - it is downright ignorant and deliberately lies by false insinuation.
#110 “…a lad… being murdered by his MATES….etc., etc” for being English!!! Now most of what you wrote after …”a philosophy of hatred and division….” relates more to the before mentioned imperialism and colonialism rather than the desire for sovereignty among small nations like Luxemburg, Denmark, Andorra, New Zealand or Scotland. “ a philosophy of hatred and division” is definitely not part of the policies of the National Party of multinational NZ

156

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/07/2008 10:39:18
#125 jen

I would suggest that you should be asking the Unionists to justify their "SNP are racist" claims rather than the other way around.
157

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:44:16
154

Yep I believe the expression is immigrants. English folk and indeed Northern Irish and Welsh dont qualify as immigrants because we are all British. Where the joke comes in is if they are both non Scots British and of African or Asian decent then they will also be referred to as "White settlers" simply because they are from other parts of the UK settling in Scotland.
Its no a reference to colour nor a particular ethnic group apart from Non Scottish British if such a thing actually exists.
158

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:45:15
163

MisterN 151 Well I reiterate, plenty on these forums are upset with the expression

For that.
159

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/07/2008 10:45:30
#135 Jen

I would like you to explain and justify why you write your posts in such a condescending and patronising way. I am sure this was not your intention so go for it (calmly of course)!
160

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 10:47:49
JenJen @156

I think these boards illustrate the Scottish love of debate more than anything. I have never seen a political board that is as busy as this anywhere else - have you?

The rapidity of the debate does obviously cause the standard to fall. I would make this point though - on 144 you suggest that some of the comments that come from SNP supporters(not represenatatives) are sub-standard.

I could show you a dozen posts on this thread from two unionists that are in gutter. I think that most reasonable observers would agree that the inflamation comes mainly from the union camp. It is a deliberate tactic - I mentioned earlier that generating fear is the only place left for them. Drawing parallels between the SNP and the third Reich are not only tired and utterly baseless but are utterly predictable

161

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:52:02
156

You should read the stories regarding the US in the international sections and see how incredibly stupid most posters from the US can be. The posters on the local threads are head and shoulders above most of the International comments I have seen on here.
But make your own comparrions you dont have to take my word for it.
162

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 10:55:28
169

Eh? I refer you to my answer to your post at 154 at post 164.
163

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 10:59:07
Re 'white settlers'

Coming from Argyll I know all about white settlers. The term is hardly the most pejorative I have heard - I play football with a guy from London who calls me a 'sweaty'. It's no big deal, I recognise this as banter and give it back to him the big fat english tellytubby that he his.

White settlers not only hail from England but from lowland Scotland also. Most natives in Argyll fully accept and welcome all you sassenachs - without white settlers mainy Highland Communities would not exist. White settlers bring valuable skills, money and get-up-and-go that many locals do not posses.

The vast majority of white settlers integrate into Highland communities enrichening them in many ways. I know many,people from England who live in Scotland and are ardent supporters of the SNP. They are most welcome in our country.

The unionists are most uncomfortable with this fact.
164

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:00:12
169

And when you are done with that maybe you can answer my query regarding your post at 154 please.
165

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 11:01:51
#160 Clearly.

#162 The way I see it is that it isn't the first time that kind of accusation has been made and it probably won't be the last. That poster, rightly or wrongly, believes he has explained his somewhat extreme case. Therefore, it needs somebody from an SNP standpoint to explain why the SNP is different and by doing so to refute it effectively.

#166 Please explain exactly what is patronising about my posts? Thanks.

#167 It may be popular but so is the News of the World. The standards on this board are awful and if I were a leader of either party "represented" here I'd be pretty keen to shut it down. For the record, some of the "unionist" posts appear to me to be just as unstructured, unfair and over-emotional as those of the SNP. Fair point; "supporters" rather than "representatives" (the parties want to hope so anyway!).

#168 So what? What happened to a fresh start for politics, ending confrontation and pioneering a collaborative approach in Scotland? We said we were going to do things differently. We aren't.
166

JenJen,

WestIsBest 06/07/2008 11:03:43
#171

Agree with every word. Possibly they're the last chance for the survival of the Gaelic language, too, other than on a list in Brussels.
167

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:04:27
LOL

JanisB

Afro Carribean settlers from England in Scotland could be referred to by their first name there are so few of them. Sounds like your getting a tad upset about the white settler tag - it applies to lowland scots also.

chill baby
168

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:04:36
171

Exactly its banter and it happens all over the UK from Jockland to Taffy country.
Its excessive PC which is causing more ethnic offence and aggravation than anything else.
169

Rab haw,

edin 06/07/2008 11:04:43
After the comedy on Question time where the planted flower with the green shirt and red face was given so much exposure and others who wished to answer his ignorant rant were ignored its time the labour party had a look within, maybe they are all suckin up to gain honours from gordon when he gets the boot. To claim that the BBC is biased towards the SNP is something that is simply ridiculous. Perhaps their real agenda is to deflect attention away from the Labour pigs who are in positions in ALL areas due to their ability to feed from the trough and SERVE their masters. They are s**T SCARED THE GRAVY TRAIN HAS HALTED.....
170

lulach mac gille coemgain,

06/07/2008 11:04:54
I regularly listen to the SNBC world service - it’s quite the thing

I want my Country Back - hee hee - not the Empire!
171

Rab haw,

06/07/2008 11:10:03
PS Ive been called Jock, Haggis , Sheep Sha***** , by friends in the south and to be honest probably a lot worst by some of my fellow natives. but I don't get hung up about it I love oor neighbors .
172

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:10:43
Well there you go I didnt realise that chuchters referred to us Scottish sassenachs as "white settlers" also, makes sense I suppose.
173

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:12:43
JenJen

There is no doubt these boards can degenerate into a $hitfight.

I would though suggest that is an illustartaion of the passion generated by the subject of Scottish self determination (Scotland is unique in having this debate). I do still maintain that the unionists, generally, start the descent - it started at comment 8 - removed by the moderator.

Scroll through this thread - how many reasonable posts can you find coming from a unionist keyboard - not many, if any.
174

,

06/07/2008 11:15:35
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175

Rab haw,

06/07/2008 11:18:48
183 Does the number six refer to the number of times you've been f@cked?
176

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:18:56
MisterN @177

It's banter when it's amongst friends. If someone called me a 'sweaty' that I didn't know I would find it offensive.

I wouldn't quite say it is mainstream but there are significant sections of English society who find it acceptable to use pejorative terms for many other nationalities,not just Scots. It's not always joking and kidding, often it's to purely get a rise. For some reason most Scots do not have the need to talk about others in this sort of way.

It is, I believe, an imperialist hangover

177

,

06/07/2008 11:20:44
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178

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:22:10
187

Why dont you google it f*ck wit.
179

Conway,

06/07/2008 11:22:37
Good Morning Scotland and News Drive are good Scottish Radio programs thats what we need for TV.
180

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 06/07/2008 11:23:11
Poor little Labour party. Why not just call an election today and let us put you out of your misery.

181

,

06/07/2008 11:24:48
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182

Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/07/2008 11:25:04
No 6 supports the party of Dunvegal, id cards, the Iraq war, the party of working class heroes such as Blair, Broon, Mandelson, 2 jags Prescott, Screaming Lord Foulkes.....
183

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:25:59
185

That would be your personal choice of course you would have to take the context into consideration.
It aint the word that could cause the offence but the meaning behind it.
184

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:27:41
191

Is not number6 he is posting as number:6 should have spotted it earlier. F*cking cyber troll posing as number6.
185

,

06/07/2008 11:30:32
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186

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:31:05
Call me a sad get but i just googled chuchter to see how far away from Teuchtar the result was.

I urge you to follow this link:-

http://www.caor.co.uk/doogle.htm
187

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:31:37
195

No if I meant Teuchter I would have posted Teuchter I meant chuchter so I posted chuchter didnt you google it f*ckwit?
188

,

06/07/2008 11:34:21
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189

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:34:41
196

Thank you.
190

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:35:48
MisterN the last thing I would like to do is provide any support, real or implied, to the troll - but was is a chuchter?

Are you talking about a schichter? as in:-

'Imagine my surprise when Donald tried to give me one up the .....'
191

,

06/07/2008 11:37:23
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192

,

06/07/2008 11:40:17
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193

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:42:42
200

No it is simply a reference to the website you posted. I found it while experimenting with the correct spelling.
194

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 11:43:53
It's always quite funny seeing the jingoistic juxtaposition between doric,lowland scots and highland imagery that this site provides anexample of:-

http://www.caor.co.uk/doogle.htm

Obvioulsy the work of a white settler
195

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 11:53:16
204

It is funny though.
196

boudica,

Glasgow 06/07/2008 11:57:59
110 ...you forgot to mention that the SNP supporters and their then leader Arthur Donaldson also alligned him and his party to the National Socialist Party and even had plans to run Scotland for him when he invaded the UK
197

Dougie Douglas,

Brisbane 06/07/2008 12:03:45
206 - nonsense.

198

Richardinho,

06/07/2008 12:04:54
'Boudica' that well known fighter for Celtic independence!
199

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 12:05:03
206 Troll again

Youre obviously referring to this piece of nonsense?

In May 1941, during World War II, Donaldson's home was raided by police who allegedly suspected him and a number of other SNP figures, of "subversive activities", due to their support for the Scottish Neutrality League. An informant of MI5 told desk officer Richard Brooman-White that Donaldson intended to set up a puppet government akin to that of Vidkun Quisling in the event of a Nazi invasion. As a result of this information, Donaldson was arrested and interned under Defence Regulation 18B, at first to Kilmarnock Prison and then in Barlinnie Prison in Glasgow. He was held for six weeks.

According to papers released by MI5, which lead raids against many Scottish nationalists, "subversive literature" and a "large cache of weapons" was found in the house.[1] The allegations in the MI5 files, which were initially released in 1994 after Donaldson's death, were absolutely denied by his widow, Violet Donaldson, and by the leadership of the SNP at the time.[2][3] Donaldson was never charged, and no evidence for the MI5 allegations has ever been produced.

MI5 politically affiliated to any party in power within Westminster and has in the past on many occasions been involved with party political espionage on rival political parties and "dirty tricks" in order to destabilise them.
In other words a tool of the state.
200

RISPAL KLB,

06/07/2008 12:05:26
FULL DEVOLUTION : IT'S NOW OR NEVER
201

cabrach loon,

inverness 06/07/2008 12:08:49
Surely it is proper and correct when in Scotland to refer to the British Government as the London or Westminster Govt so as not to confuse with the Scottish Parliament or Government.
Labour are out of order here!
202

Richardinho,

06/07/2008 12:14:06
'I think that Labour can't get used to the fact that they are not in charge any more here and they can't tell people what to do.'

Interesting, when Labour were in charge at Holyrood, did they actually tell BBC Scotland what to do?
203

ExpatBackinScotland,

Dundee 06/07/2008 12:17:18
SNP are racist eh?

Well my wife is Mexican, my extended family including neices and nephews are Mexicans. My kids will be half mexican and Im in the SNP.

With an English Father to add to that, Im really comparable to a Nazi! Idiot.
204

Alfie Bett,

06/07/2008 12:24:49
Labour are well and truly unbelievable that they can come out with this nonsense, the BBC in Scotland seemed to bend over backwards to favour Labour in any studio discussion whether it was to allow the labour person the last word or constantly interrupt whenever an SNP representative was putting a good point across even the patronising and sneering tone of voice certain interviewers used when questioning an SNP person.Maybe the fact that many people complained about that has caused the BBC to(appear) be a bit more balanced in their attitude.
Labour have been so used to getting an easy ride from BBC Scotland interviewers that now when they are expected to give some real answers they dont like it and are whingeing about it
205

MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 12:26:04
206

There is rising evidence that many of the disenchanted Labour supporters are switching their allegiance to the BNP which is most definately linked to the Nazi party and NDP in Germany.
Its seems to me that its the BRIT NATS who are closer to the Nazis than any socialist Scottish party.
206

Aesop,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 12:33:45
How could the BBC or any serious news agency be pro-Labour when the party is mired in expenses fiddles, illegality, incompetence, and bereft of useful ideas?

Anyone who has watched the horror show that was Jackie Baillie on Newsnight a few weeks back - trying to Webdy Alexander - will seen how degenerate New Labour have become. No need for bias there. Baillie did all the damage herself.

The SNP at least have been competent in government, transparent in their actions, and have brought some original and radical ideas to the table.

So what exactly are New Labour whinging about?
207

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 06/07/2008 12:38:15
Dougie Douglas from Brisbane is in QUITE a lather today. Take a few wee drams, my good fellow, and CALM DOWN!

Any body that supports the SNP should have their head examined - TWICE!
208

,

06/07/2008 12:45:41
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209

westview,

Former United Kingdom. 06/07/2008 12:49:23
How about a pro Scotland labour party instead of a pro London labour party, north of the border?
210

,

06/07/2008 12:54:46
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211

Queen D,

Glasgow 06/07/2008 13:01:32
Anyone seen a website www.fanhitter.co.uk?
Most interesting!

As for the BBC and labour ,what can one say?

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
212

brownlie,

06/07/2008 13:03:10
221 Tim

are you nice but dim and what does the W stand for?

Spook - just head for the san siro!
213

,

06/07/2008 13:04:38
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MisterN,

Scotland 06/07/2008 13:08:25
221

I examine it everyday in the mirror and it doesnt change my political affiliations what am I doing wrong?
215

johndow,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 13:09:01
Don't you just love the pathetic demise of the labour party in scotland.
This is the party which, to all intents and purposes, has been in power in scotland for ever, and what have they done to the benefit of scotland.....very, very little.
The lowest mortality rate in europe in the heart of labourland, the worst obesity problem outwith the usa, the worst .......oh, it just goes on and on and on.....which is labour's real problem, they also thought they would go on and on and on! What happens when people realise they have an alternative that works? They change. Supermarkets provide a huge variety of different everything........well, labour will have to come to terms that their brand of politics doesn't appeal/work anymore ( except for the members, most of whom have their snouts well and truly in the trough.......in the usa sport offers a way out of the ghetto, in scotland it was being a labour polititian! )
Rather than kicking out at anything they don't like/understand, labour should realise that choice is good and their future will be determined by their ability to change and become better/honest/adapt/etc. I suspect this won't happen as most labour politicians don't have any abilities whatsoever, or convictions, or even an interest in their constituents.
Scotland has prospered inspite of labour. We are a modern european country inspite of labour. We have a decent economy inspite of labour. It's the bits that labour were directly responsible for , like social and health issues that we are third world.


216

Neil,

Glasgow 06/07/2008 13:09:59
"This from the party who plants activists in 'Question Time"

The party that doesn't being?
217

LEAL,

06/07/2008 13:19:28
230

Is it not the case that until very recently the middle class intelligencia that make up the BBC considered the SNP to be a slightly eccentric minority party,like solidarity or the greens.Now however like a large part of the Scottish population,they see independence as a serious proposition supported by as many people as oppose it.The Labour party have been used to seeing the SNP treated as a joke by the BBC and are upset that the BBC ,perhaps now,starting to drop their bias against the SNP.Lets be honest.If the BBC were anti-Labour they would have been far more critical of the situation in Glasgow East

Labour MP quits due to ill health but surrounded by rumours of sleaze.
Labours 3 most likely candidates have to run from the job because of similair rumours.
218

,

06/07/2008 13:21:57
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219

Hamish Scott,

06/07/2008 13:26:21
Three weeks before an election, last time they did this it was just before the Holyrood elections last year. Labour are so blatantly cynical, and on such a ridiculous claim, I have to admire their audacity. Also interesting to see the 'Nazi' anti-SNP smear being used again, used so regularly since May 2007 it comes across as a deliberate campaign.
220

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06/07/2008 13:27:25
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221

johndow,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 13:31:09
I think we need to publish as much information as possible about these people who are no better that petty theives and criminals.
I hadn't realised the story behind the resignation....not surprised though.
We really do need our press to inestigate, investigate, and out, all of these labour criminals.
222

,

06/07/2008 13:31:37
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,

06/07/2008 13:34:42
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 06/07/2008 13:38:24
222 The Spook

No, I don't feel like it. So there! Maybe at a later point in the day after I have had my fair trade organically grown, shade coffee from Columbia.

229 Brownlie

The "W" stands for WonderBoy and my middle initial "C" stands for Captivating and Charismatic.
225

b.allan,

ALBA 06/07/2008 13:40:12
If anything the BBC haven't held LIEbour to account enough and Ms Wark's treatment of Alex Salmond was absolutely disgusting. Such fun to see teh LIEbour party in meltdown though...BRING IT ON!!!
226

,

06/07/2008 13:40:46
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,

06/07/2008 13:41:19
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Pilrig.,

Livingston 06/07/2008 13:42:46
206 - a product of the Peter Peacock school of history
229

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06/07/2008 13:43:25
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GMCD,

dundee 06/07/2008 13:44:17
I can't believe the utter hypocrisy of the SNpites on this MB...Scottish Labour are just moaning about the things that the SNP also moan about..that the media are against them...funny how biased the media is...my definition of a unbiased media is one that all political parties think is biased!!!
231

,

06/07/2008 13:50:44
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,

06/07/2008 13:51:38
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,

06/07/2008 13:56:33
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Colin Wilson,

06/07/2008 13:57:14
Re #245 and #250 : in my experience, the expression "white settler" isn't used toward people from a particular place of origin, but toward people with a particular attitude.

235

monkey man,

06/07/2008 14:08:02
I'm pleased to see that my earlier posts have inured debate amongst the anti-English bigots and extremists of the SNP. Hopefully they'll now seriously question their respective consciences as to why they have these beliefs and this hatred for others who are after all only residents across a fictitious border.
236

Tris,

06/07/2008 14:11:05
~221

I'm always somewhat amused by people who don't live in Scotland telling us how we should vote, from the comfort of a well run country.

Try living here for just a little while, and putting up with the problems, from minor irritations, like the BBC assuming that we all live in South East England, to major problems like pensioners dying of cold and hunger in the winter. Then you can lecture us about needing to have our heads examined for wanting change.

Some people emigrate, some people try to change the country they live in, others sit and moan. Unfortunately far to many of the last.
237

Tris,

06/07/2008 14:13:40
#257

You're really funny Monkey man....

Why don't you pop over to Glasgow east. With your name and a red rosette you're almost guaranteed a fat cat salary and expenses beyond your wildest dreams for doing, if the last imcumbant is a measure, absolutely nothing for your constiuents.
238

Hamish Scott,

06/07/2008 14:22:18
#157
If the border is fictitious how can we be anti-English?
239

Steve,

York 06/07/2008 14:22:28
"Monkey man", you are an idiot, and a disgrace to the Labour Party.
If the Scots want to chose independence its up to them. Plenty other countries have done the same.Are the Norwegians racist for chosing independence?What about the Finns? Estonians? Slovaks? Are they racists?
On the other hand:
"British jobs for British workers".. who said that?
"A union jack in every garden".. who said that?
And who's policies flattened Baghdad, slaughterring thousands of civilians?

If you are looking for racism, start a little closer to home. Foool.
240

monkey man,

06/07/2008 14:29:40
One only had to witness the countless acts of anti-English racism and bigotry reported after the "success" of that ludicrous Hollywood film on William Wallace by that Aussie buffoon Gibson to simultaneously see the rise in the voting patterns for of the SNP in Scotland. It was no co-incidence and they are inextricably linked, nationalism and bigotry. Nationalism thrives when a perennial scapegoat is to blame for the country's ills....and for the bigots in Scotland that scapegoat is "The English".
241

tommy M,

scotland 06/07/2008 14:42:28
to "monkey man" - are you suffering from depression? have you been claiming half a million pounds in expenses for your Glasgow home?

just to set the record straight, i am a nationalist, i don't "hate" English people as you so narrowly suggest. i just do not want to be governed by a corrupt, lying and sleazy Labour party, which does not represent the interests of our nation, Scotland.

242

monkey man,

06/07/2008 14:47:27
# 263 Tommy

You are free to say whatever you are politically, but to deny that Scottish "nationalism" isn't dis-associated from bigotry and racism is ludicrous. Many individuals quite rightly see nationalism as a poison which easily infects the gullible.

243

tommy M,

Scotland 06/07/2008 14:48:10
in the Sunday Times today, "energy guru Robert Hirsch, who forecast the present oil squeeze, has suggested the price could reach $500 a barrel within 3-5 years" And Alasdair Darling and Broon go laughing all the way to the bank with Scotland's oil revenues? Shameful!Why would anyone in their right mind tolerate this? VOTE SNP. BRING BROON DOON!
244

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 14:48:28
It's coming, the unionist parties are in free fall, even the pro unionist media is struggling even to get cheap points against the SNP cos the SNP are doing a great job for Scotland, still mystifies me why anyone would vote against a party who stands for Scotland, it is obvious we are being and have been for hundreds of years been raped by the union. It's time to end this charade and take Scotland forward.
245

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 14:51:48
Monkey man, typical unionist ramblings, "nationalism is bad it will be bad for everything" but with no reason or solid argument. There is nothing worse than a unionist Scot, a traitor to Scotland, i'd far rather trust an englishman before a unionist Scot. Yer welcome to your union and when we get independence you can stay in London yer no welcome here.
246

tommy M,

scotland 06/07/2008 14:56:01
Monkey man, thanks for your comment but i don't agree. If you are under the impression that the SNP is about "bigotry and racism" i suggest you come along to some meetings and you will discover that could not be further from the truth. Nationalists are working to improve the prospects of everyone who lives and works in Scotland, which is something i haven't seen the tories or labour party do.
247

monkey man,

06/07/2008 14:57:02
# 267 Bzzz, Edinburgh

Here is the classic, archetypal "tolerance" of the Scottish Nationalist. If against independence one isn't a " real Scot" but a "traitor" and should be banished in exile. Robert Mugabe would be proud of that little rant of yours and I'm glad you've posted it as a warning to what Scottish Nationalism is all about.
248

,

06/07/2008 15:02:05
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249

Matt there,

somewhere 06/07/2008 15:08:55
"SCOTTISH Labour chiefs have openly accused BBC journalists of pro-SNP bias in a bitter attack on the corporation's political coverage north of the border."

TRANSLATES TO: "Boo-hoo, hoo! Nobody loves us any more! Everyone is against us! They all hate us!"
250

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 15:14:37
270. How about defence jobs for starters, two aircraft carriers the bulk of which will be built in Scotland, then there's this--800 jobs to regenerate Glasgow's East End
by Gordon Thomson

© Evening Times
Originally published: 14.11.2007

More than 800 jobs could be relocated to kickstart regeneration in the east end of Glasgow.

Job creators and council chiefs are set to spearhead an ambitious drive to bring economic prosperity to one of the city's most deprived areas.
251

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 15:18:31
271. Or in the real world. "How about a little fairness all round"!
252

b.allan,

scotland 06/07/2008 15:19:34
272- funny how they finally bring this one out just in time for the election, egh?
253

b.allan,

scotland 06/07/2008 15:21:45
i think, to be as fair as possible, Labour has lined their own pockets in power and drastically let down the people of Scotland and if you think otherwise i would really love to hear what you think they have done for Scotland.
254

monkey man,

06/07/2008 15:23:07
Anyone wish to defend Bzzz, Edinburgh #267's comments. Or is that the norm for the Scots Nats.?
255

Vivas,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 15:34:48
Bzzz is far too tolerant. If I was Scottish President, the first day after independence I'd offer the ooprtunity for all those who no longer wish to remain here, the chance to start a forced march towards the border. Being a bitter twisted and evil nationalist at heart of course, I'd then order the remaining jets at Leuchars to strafe the fleeing refugees on the M74 and A1 with tracer and cannon fire.

Vote for Vivas. "I love the smell of napalm in the morning !"

256

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 15:40:13
Labour's Achievements.
1. Lowest inflation since the 60s
2. Low interest rates
3
. Introduced the National Minimum Wage
4. Lowest unemployment for 29 years
5. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries
6. 78,700 more nurses
7. 27,400 more doctors
8. Brought back matrons to hospital wards
9. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament
257

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 15:46:39
CONTINUE FROM 278. 10. Child benefit up 25 per cent since 1997
11. Free nursery places for three and four-year-olds in England, Scotland and Wales.
12. Record police numbers in Scotland
13.Free TV licences for over-75s
14. Free local bus travel for over-60s
sHOULD I CONTINUE?
258

,

06/07/2008 15:48:42
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259

beckypumps1,

Fife 06/07/2008 15:50:00
They are having a laugh. Another sign of Liebour in meltdown. I think its safe to say the truth is usually opposite to what Liebour say or as near as.As for the BBC I would prefer to be given the choice if I wish to subscribe.
260

monkey man,

06/07/2008 15:51:00
#277

The retards left in the newly impoverished and independent Brigadoon, after the brain drain headed South, would be stringing up the Scots Nats one by one from the nearest lamp-pole after the fantasy of going it alone became a bitter reality. I like a story with a happy ending.! lol
261

,

06/07/2008 15:51:44
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262

b.allan,

alba 06/07/2008 15:54:14
you forget to mention some of labours other notable achievements such as post office closures, wasting billions on replacing nuclear weapons, sending our troops into an illegal war without correct equipment, the part played by broon in the credit crunch and northern rock fiasco, broon's current handling of the petrol price shambles...
263

,

06/07/2008 15:55:27
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264

beckypumps1,

Fife 06/07/2008 15:56:17
266
I dont know if I would use the word raped but I think you have hit the nail on the head with your comments.
265

b.allan,

alba 06/07/2008 15:56:18
that last post was to 279 by the way, and yes, please do continue - it is quite amusing to hear someone desperately try to defend the LIEbour party.
266

monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:05:45
# 285

Scotland has lived off the English financially since 1707 and there's no shame in that considering the Scots played their part in making Britain great.

The Scots per head also supported Maggie Thatcher's economic policies to the hilt in getting the country re-enervated after the 1970's debacle. British first, Scottish a very poor second.
267

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06/07/2008 16:11:04
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268

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 16:12:35
287. Without the Labour party,Scotland would not have devolution,and Salmond would be a nobody.
You may think Labour in Scotland is finished,mark my words and remember, only fools would discount labour now or in the future.
269

Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:14:57
Unbelievable. I had to read this twice - three times - over.

I have a Master's degree in Mass Communications, but I'm betting you wouldn't need 60-brain cells to see - quite clearly - that Scottish Labour and their pro-union lying already have a vice-like grip and a few hundreds mass media conduits in Scotland.

It really does paint a very clear picture of these cretins for the paranoid, power hungry, anti-democratic, pseudo Pravda bampots they are.

When will our people, especially on the West Coast [and many of whom are living in conditions little better than Russian back-woods suburbs] finally cast these overweight, sweaty, and thoroughly bigoted West Coast mafioso out on their fat *****?

WHY would anyone vote in these morons? To continue to live in squalor? To see our regiments destroyed and our lads slaughtered in meaningless wars? To see our energy questions balanced on what is good for 50-million people and not 5?

I have asked - TWICE, via the FOI, for the minutes of the pre-election meeting between senior Labour Party officials and the BBC Scotland political team.

Labour are so foxed and fearful by the progress of the SNP before and AFTER the May election, they still accuse the BBC of slanting their output in a pro-SNP manner. It's like fat, spoilt, red-ribbon wearing weans who can't get over the fact they are NOT in power!

In any case, other than that being, of course, the complete opposite of a much larger truth, it does raise a small smile and indicate how utterly deplorable these Labour eejits are.

Did I get the minutes of the meeting? No, I did not.

They have lied to you Scotland. They continue to lie. DO NOT trust them. Throw Labour out on it's ear and send a message to the 'Wormtongues' in it's ranks, doing everything they can to push an absurd union over what is good for the people of Scotland.

That means you Cairns, Darling, Brown and Browne - in a wee office in London, with Scotland on it.
270

elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 16:17:17
290/291. A bit of a comedian aren't we,don't give up your day job, if you have one!
271

monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:19:47
# 293

You missed the point. The English people are a generous and tolerant bunch who don't mind paying a little extra to subsidise Scotland as they know the Scots are their kith and kin. We in Scotland should be grateful for their patience as well.
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06/07/2008 16:22:49
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06/07/2008 16:23:01
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:23:54
monkey man said:

'You missed the point. The English people are a generous and tolerant bunch who don't mind paying a little extra to subsidise Scotland as they know the Scots are their kith and kin. We in Scotland should be grateful for their patience as well'

Eh?

Come back down to planet Earth matey. Or, alternatively, visit the campaign for an English parliament website - and put your theory to the test with the English themselves.

Frankly, I don't blame them. Though I must admit to not understanding why THEY cannot understand WHY pro-union parties are so desperate to hold onto Scotland ;o)

Sobeit. Democratic freedom for Scotland and England.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:26:40
The truth about media control in Scotland?:

All television programmes are to ensure that the words ‘Britain’ or ‘British’ are included in their title, in a move confirmed by Downing Street last night.

Gordon Brown has said that he wanted to further define the principles that 'bind' Britain, whether people ******* wanted it or not.

The move comes only months after the Prime Minister called for the UK’s complete underwear range to be cut from the Union flag, in a bid to ‘rescue it from the far right’.

"It is important to talk about and identify our shared common values and discuss ideas and find ways to celebrate being British," a government spokesman echoed last night.

“The Prime Minister thinks the best way of doing that is to ram the nationally meaningless concept of Britain down your ******* throats, morning, noon and night”

Scottish father of two Robert Brodie commented: "It’s unbelievable – you can’t turn on the set without seeing that foetus Alan Titchmarsh prancing about a Scottish landscape banging on about how great ‘Britain’ is."

“The other night I watched ‘The great British body’ with Trinny and Suzanna. Surely the most pointless excuse for a programme with the word ‘British’ in it ever? Plus the fit one never actually got her **** out.’

Downing Street has rejected allegations that the plan is a conceited, deliberate and transparent response to progressive nationalist governments – particularly in Scotland.

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond ridiculed the move in yesterday’s ‘First Minister’s (British) Questions’, drawing reference to the recently revised and ‘utterly absurd’ cross channel prime time schedule.

“Does the Prime Minister think people are ******* stupid?” he said.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:27:24
New Prime time schedule. Should the SNP 'wite a big wetta to their mummies' like Labour?

Monday
6:00 I own Britain's best home
7:00 Great British Menu
8:00 Britain: A natural history

Tuesday
6:00 Britain's best 2008
7:00 Britain's got talent
8:00 Britain's next top model

Wednesday
6:00 A history of Britain
7:00 Britain's got more talent
8:00 The trees that made Britain

Thursday
6:00 History of modern Britain
7:00 In Search of Medieval Britain
8:00 The great British body

Friday
6:00 Lost buildings of Britain
7:00 Britain’s lost worlds
8:00 Marco’s great British feast
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Hamish Scott,

06/07/2008 16:29:44
Monkey Man - Please take this comment in the positive way in which it is intended. I don't know if you are Scottish or English but either way you display a very unhealthy level of hate towards Scots/Scotland/Scottishness. If you are Scots then it will be the worse for being self-hate. Instead of pouring this hate out on this forum I would seriously ask you to sit down somewhere by yourself and think about this hate you have and why you have it. If you don't you will only get worse because we are moving ever closer to independence. Your feelings are quite typical for people in your circumstances, they are feelings that have been felt by people across the world when their country has moved to independence against their deeply felt wishes. There is no shame in your position in as much as 'colonised' people are conditioned to think that they, their country, its culture and its potential are inferior to the dominant country. Liberate yourself from this hate and join us in making this a country you can proud of instead of ashamed of.
All the best
Hamish Scott
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kt mcallan,

alba 06/07/2008 16:29:52
If the Scots are such a financial burden, why hang on to us and our oil revenues so tightly and LIE to Scotland over the McCrone report for 30 years?
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:29:54
I wonder how many Scots Nats voters, especially the "socialists" amongst them, refused on principle to buy their council house after Maggie's generous offer of selling the municipal housing stock.? And did the Nats also refuse to buy shares in the then newly-privatised public utilities.? Is this why they hate the English so much today as it reminds them of their hypocritical actions back in the 1980's of pretending to "stand up to Thatcher" whilst secretly supporting her policies.? I reckon it is.

Like everyone else they played a proud part in Maggie Thatcher's Revolution. She couldn't have done it all without her Scottish supporters backing her policies so they must be thanked for that.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:32:15
Hehehehheh. Monkeyman - you ARE a hoot.

Part of this absurd union's epitaph will give due account to Thatcher for her hand in the country's eventual deliverance! All hail your hero!! ;o)
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:36:36
Bang-on number 310 [JoeMcT].

My single point is that I would be very interested in seeing the standing of both nations 10-years after. I reckon England would be struggling...

...as our unionist masters in Labour and Tories know full well.
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:37:43
# 306 Hamish

The difference being I don't follow the bigot code well versed in Scotland of hating the English to prove I'm Scottish. Anyway, Scottish independence is as mad as Glaswegians declaring UDI from the rest of Scotland and claiming to do so due to cultural differences. We are all British, we exist in the British Isles, we forever will be British also.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:39:08
312 - cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo.

Pretty sure maniacs like you were spouting the same garbage to the Irish not so long ago.

Conceited, narrow minded wee shrew. ;o)
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:43:43
# 313 Cam 3

Well...under your logic anyplace in Scotland could secede from Holyrood and declare itself independent from Scotland with the full consent of the SNP. Is that what you are suggesting.? We couldn't have hypocrisy in insisting they stayed within Scottish boundaries could we.?
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:44:54
To actually suggest, Monkeyman, that SNP supporters are proving their Scottishness by hating the Enlglish is a tired of old gaff - and insulting - and to be honest, I'm tired of listening to ill-educated morons like you trundle out this tired old chestnut.

I'm pro-independence because it is RIGHT and GOOD to be so, and is fully in the interest of the nation. No more, and little else.

Idiot.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:47:56
#314 - eh?

That's it? That's your answer?

'Why break up from this union, as a nation, because then ANYWHERE could break from ANYWHERE in Scotland'.

Ummmmmmmm. REALLY, go and get a reasonable education son.

Next you'll be telling me cats don't taste of chicken. ;o)

Seriously though, that comment is beyond idiocy.

We are a NATION of various cultural patinas - but a NATION nonetheless. Perhaps you could put you, errr, 'rationale' to test on Ireland, USA, Norway etc.

No?
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:51:11
# 316

The entire spectrum of Scottish voters of ALL parties in their tens of thousands ALL supported Maggie Thatcher by buying their council houses and shares in the then newly-privatised utilities. Since then they have embarrassd themselves year in year out with the garbage that "Scotland as a nation stood up to Thatcher and Thatcherism". Absolutely hilarious stuff.! lol

Quite simply, they are lying frauds.
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Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 06/07/2008 16:51:21
Wee light bulb above the heed flashes. Brilliant thought enters the void.

When the BBC becomes the SBC, problem solved.
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06/07/2008 16:54:41
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 16:55:38
# 317

The logic is simple. Strathclyde, for instance, could secede from Scotland and declare itself "independent" if its majority wishes it, Passport to Pimlico style. That's democracy isn't it.? It is no different to Scotland wishing similar from Great Britain.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 16:58:28
MonkeyMoron, I'm aware of many, many people who - quite amazingly - are starting to label much of the country's mass media as the new 'Pravda'...

...the 'truth' according to the likes of the Daily Record, Scotsman and, perhaps unsurprisingly, even broadcasting veins in BBC Scotland.

It is an appalling and dangerous situation.

Given the reality of the current SNP govt. - it also says much of political imbalance.

An imbalance between the majority who voted in the opportunity of the SNP govt. An imbalance between the SNP performance thus far [by any accounts *very* good] and what - in fact - is presented to us by the Scottish mass media on a daily basis.

This is more subtle than memories of Daily Record pre-election 'instruction' on how to ensure SNP candidates lose.

Consider Scottish broadcast media dropping the PROVEN Labour donations scam. Consider the 'Britain this, Britain that' that Scots have to endure on TV. Thr programme list above is REAL. NOW. The joke is that there is none. It's beyond a joke...and Labour's mind-set?...

...'stop the BBC producing anything that can be even INTERPRETED as pro-nat..'

Labour are media fascists, period.

Ultimately it reflects a desperate, reactionary media - champing at the bit for any opportunity at a shot across the nationalist bow.

The transparency of motive between the unionist goose-down bedfellows is simply extraordinary. It reminds me of the bed-ridden grandparents from 'Charlie and the Chocolate factory'.

There have been brave sporadic instances of pro-SNP copy, or at least, copy not hell bent on underlining them as dangerous/kooks/racist/dangerous/dangerous etc. You can only bend copy so much on demonstrated progress.

Nevertheless, the dark underbelly of 'union at all costs' permeates pretty much everything. ANY time the SNP have so much as mis-time a political breath, the Unionist media will be there...

Thankfully, new media does mean people can respond to 'non stories' etc.,
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 17:01:44
MonkeyMan said

'The logic is simple. Strathclyde, for instance, could secede from Scotland and declare itself "independent" if its majority wishes it, Passport to Pimlico style. That's democracy isn't it.? It is no different to Scotland wishing similar from Great Britain.'

No - it's not simple. MM, it doesn't even make SENSE. Let me spell it out.

The NATION is striving for in against an unworkable POLITICAL union. Said nation has many regions and a healthy does of cultural diversity.

The NATION has existed for quite some time.

It is unlikely, and frankly idiotic to suggest, that any region would desire to leave Scotland.

In the same way that the English regions, against Labour hopes, said NO to devolution from their own country.

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monkey man,

06/07/2008 17:02:34
# 322 McMadman


You're getting silly now.! lol I don't like to tell you this but its called democracy.!

If you're saying that because Scotland didn't vote Conservative then it shouldn't have Conservative rule, then by your same logic the SNP "government" has no mandate to rule in parts of Scotland where the SNP vote is risible.? lol
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john z,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 17:04:22
Dear Labour,

Boo hoo! You lost the election, get over it.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 17:06:07
The media agenda of the Unionist parties has only exposed them for what they are.

Corrupt, incompetent, political vipers with little more than their own duplicity, and foolish disregard for how silly they look, bedding together against a pro-active Scottish government with every passing day.

Here's a news-flash.

We see right through you.
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06/07/2008 17:06:44
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06/07/2008 17:08:06
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 17:09:34
# 327

I'll patronise you a bit more, Joe. lol This nation of wee Bravehearts who apparently hated the guts of the "evil" Maggie Thatcher, or so they lie about ever since, obeyed her every whim by following her "greedy" policies.

The greedy Scots who bought their council houses also caused the massive problem of homelessness in Scotland in the 1980's and 1990's. Yet they still blame the Tories for this and their own avarice...liars as well as frauds.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 17:09:47
Right - need to go. Can someone else keep MonkeyMan's thorazine injections on cue for the time being?

And bring some hankies, the salivation is beyond reasonable...

...remember, keep the anti-psychotics flowing.

MM: '...I mean, what if Shetland wanted to devolve from Scotland. And what about Greenock...'

Everyone else: '...there now, that's right...uh-huh...of course...'
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06/07/2008 17:11:43
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 17:12:20
The office is closing for the day and time to go for supper. Enjoy fooling yourselves now about independence.! lol

Tootle-pip and the best of British to you all.!
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06/07/2008 17:13:10
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Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 06/07/2008 17:14:51
Just a minute, the Republic of Strathclyde might not be such a bad idea.
At least the Jam Tarts would be competitive in the SPL again.
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john z,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 17:15:26
Number 322

In the year Maggies was first elected, there were twenty two tories elected from Scotland, but it just kept dropping after that. She NEVER had a mandate to rule in Scotland.

I have always wanted to thank Margaret Thatcher to her face, for just one thing. Of all politicians in history, she single handedly pi5sed off so many Scots, that she made devolution inevitable.

You see, the Tories did something good for Scotland after all. Shame it had to happen together with so much other rubbish at the same time.

Margaret Thatcher did more for Scottish Independence, than anyone ever did. Still hate her though.
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monkey man,

06/07/2008 17:18:48
Hemorrhoids are actually the anatomical term for "'Cushions of tissue filled with blood vessels at the junction of the rectum and the a nus." However, the term has come into common usage to indicate the condition described herein. Perianal hematoma are sometimes misdiagnosed and mislabeled as hemorrhoids, when in fact they have different causes and treatments
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 17:19:19
Like I said to the Monkeymoon....

...part of this absurd union's epitaph will give due account to Thatcher for her hand in the country's eventual deliverance! All hail MonkeyMan's hero!! ;o)
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06/07/2008 17:24:30
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 17:25:11
Why oh why is every unionist talking p@sh when the nationalists disagree, please, we are all entitled to our own opinion, like it or not,we are entitled to free speech.
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Iain's,

Barclelona 06/07/2008 17:33:08
Time for a change I think!

No matter what you call it, Westminster Government or London government it is the same thing.

And this from the party who fired the Head of the BBC for allowing a reporter to say that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

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bill-alba,

fife 06/07/2008 17:34:39
Of course the BBC is biased you only have to look at their news re the SNP Government's supposed failures to see that..why anyone from Labour would think that the BBC was biased against them I cannot fathom, I also see the britnat posters on here spouting their bile as they always have why anyone tries to debate with them on here is also baffling, they type the same rubbish everytime everyone on here knows they are typting rubbish so no need to point it out to them anymore.
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bill-alba,

fife 06/07/2008 17:36:35
Elizabeth ...You are of course entitled to your opinion unfortunately yours isnt opinion is it...smells like britnat propoganda to me..
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brownlie,

06/07/2008 17:51:34
If you google BBC News you find:

England
Sport
World
UK

So the British Broadcasting Corporation knows it's priorities.
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 17:54:15
It's all very strange! It's NOT the BBC "Scotland" that fault that Labour come across in a negative light. It is the Labour party them self. This artlce sonds as if the Labour party want to be incontrol of every thing BUT the are NOT.

In the Sunday Hearld it says that they also against the Scottish Six. When most Scots would want a Scottish news broad cast at 6pm or at another more sutiable time.
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 18:08:45
347. And the nationalists never spout propogander do they!
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 18:10:34
EVe. Are you dislexic,or just a awful speller?
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HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/07/2008 18:10:51
#346 Bill. Anyone reasonable person who watched the last Question Time from Musselburgh could not but be disgusted at the condescending arrogance shown to Nicola Sturgeon by Dimbelby.

At one point to prevent her answering the Liebour apparatchik in the green shirt, he had his arm across her face, pointing to the next audience participant as she tried in vain to respond to green shirts lies and blatant propaganda. The audience was full of Liebour activists who heckled and behaved just like their useless counterparts in Holyrood. Nicolas restraint and dignity in the face of such hostility was magnificent.

This latest warning to the BBC is veiled intimidation to up the Liebour rhetoric or suffer the consequences again just like they did after the Iraq-gate scandal.

Liebour believe in the arrogant manner that there huge and dangerous Blair majority bred in them, that they and only they have the divine right to speak, and anyone who says other is to be ridiculed, lampooned and bullied. Dr David Kelly paid the ultimate price for standing up to their bullying.

The pantomime that Liebour in Scotland has now become is poetic justice. Because of inbred Liebour corruption they now cannot find a candidate to stand for election. Curran is only there as a last resort, as her Holyrood career is finished.

The sooner we get out of this disgraceful UK the better we will become as a country and a people.

It is time.

ALBA GU BRATH.
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HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/07/2008 18:15:09

350
elizabeth the first ,
06/07/2008 18:08:45
347. And the nationalists never spout propogander do they!
Report Unsuitable
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elizabeth the first ,
06/07/2008 18:10:34
EVe. Are you dislexic,or just a awful speller?




PRICELESS ABSOLUTELY BLOODY PRICELESS. You are so dense or portray yourself as so dense, that you do not even know what you have just posted.

As a matter of fact Eve is dyslexic and has been on this forum for a long time and is much admired for her efforts and intelligent comments.

You on the other hand kimba are just a thick useless agitating troll.

ALBA GU BRATH.
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 18:26:19
353. What a nasty piece of work you are,a more bigoted individual would be hard to find,as long as there is breath left in my body i will fight your pathetic and vile doctrine
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06/07/2008 18:27:00
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Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

06/07/2008 18:34:57
HAHAHAHA! Labour are stooping to transparent and see through tactics here. The first vestige of the child caught doing wrong is too blame the other. They should have researched the BBC's record more closely before inventing their claim.

I gather it is more of a ploy given the upcoming elections and the turds hitting the fan regardig the MP's fraudlent claims, The councillors fraudulent aquisitions of land.

In other words were in the wong , so get in their first.
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 18:37:13
355. You really are a credit to Scotland,the booze swilling,fag smoking,foul mouthed,bigoted part that is,but you see your rhetoric does not bother me,as i have always been,and always will be,better than a slime ball like you.
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06/07/2008 18:47:14
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06/07/2008 18:52:41
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HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 06/07/2008 18:53:27
#354. Away n bile yer heid ya smelly old fish wife your very presence sends the Goldfish into a frenzy.

Yer as subtle as a pail of rubby dubby, and a damn sight less useful.
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06/07/2008 18:55:26
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Liberal for life,

Dunblane 06/07/2008 18:56:27
Nationalism has a habit of bringing the worst out in people so I suppose its asking too much of even the BBC to reflect on what the SNP are NOT delivering on rather than put a positive spin on the few populist short term things they are - like "free" bringe tolls and "free" prescriptions for all, plus all the other uncosted things that eventually will come home to roost when the accountants are eventually called in to bail them out!
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 18:57:58
358. Excuse my french. You half baked, bigoted,rascist,little twerp, hope you choke on your fried mars bar,if there is a god in heaven he will save the decent people of Scotland from a little sh-t like you,i am not kimba,but if she ever materializes on these threads she will have my support.
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06/07/2008 18:58:22
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brownlie,

06/07/2008 18:59:05
357 Elizabeth the Fist

Well! Well! Well!

There I was on the other site defending you and saying you were not Kimba because, unlike Kimba you don't lose the rag and then you post at 357 just to prove me wrong.

Do you think the BBC were even-handed in their reporting of the Iraq invasion where hundred of innocent Iraqis were killed.

Do you think they could do a programme of hospitals, starved of medication and equipment, who are still dealing with the crippled, the blind and insane unfortunate victims of the invasion?

Do you think they could do a programme regarding the millions of refugees from Iraq or talk to those who mourn their loved one?
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06/07/2008 19:00:30
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06/07/2008 19:01:23
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06/07/2008 19:01:35
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:02:30
360. Just the response i was expecting, you lost the argument when you used your foul mouth.
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06/07/2008 19:09:26
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06/07/2008 19:10:59
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SokeBoy,

England (near Wales) 06/07/2008 19:11:20
The BBC is like the Union. Both are outdated, no longer fit for purpose and only blinkered traditionalists who believe the propaganda wish to preserve them.

Time to sack both, in my humble opinion.

Viva Alba- and Albion!
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:15:03
A really good conspiracy,don't like what the unionists are saying, use every dirty trick to silence them, well guys 'n' gals, you can call me kimba if it makes you feel better even 'tho i have not a clue who he/she is,or even if he/she ever existed,have your fun while you can.
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 19:17:05
"BBC have received complaints for using the phrase "London Government" Picture"

Why!! Just sounds completly petty, the parlement is in London. Most of the MP's live in London by having a second home there.
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06/07/2008 19:17:14
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06/07/2008 19:22:11
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Conan the Librarian™,

06/07/2008 19:24:25
374
Ok Liz
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Prince-Harry-in-Scotland-to.4194725.jp?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=1000#2914453

Is your mental health problem multiple-personae?
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 19:26:26
#304 Cam3: Some folk are odd and it would appear that there are none odder that TV producers!!

God that Marco programme is offal, the poor wee bunnies! He is babaren killing cute wee bunnies to eat.
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06/07/2008 19:27:03
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Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 06/07/2008 19:27:59
If this is true then it is good news. It is about time that a major institution was show to be biased against stupid labour.
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:29:22
376. Give it a rest, why must you and your nationalist chums persist on telling lies, you know as well as i do at least 48% of scots support the union;this has gone way past political parties,this is about the retention of the union of England,Scotland,and Wales,can't see many scots doing away with that at present.
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06/07/2008 19:32:56
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06/07/2008 19:36:50
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:37:59
385. No, the truth is that Scotland will be part of the union for many a long year, maybe,just maybe your great grandchildren will see it happen,but i doubt it. Good night.
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 19:39:50
#384 elizabeth the first: Was that the 1970's by any chance?

The largest persentage that I've every heard that support the union in Scotland was 40 or 43%. Then their about 40-50% who support Scottish independence. And aproxment 20% of Scots are NOT sure, undesided orjust don't want to say.
BUT none of these results are accurate enough to predict the true opinoion in Scotland because no poll has asked enough people to know what would happen in a referendum.
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:40:26
386. Grow-up, what a stupid gomper you are.
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ThomasP,

06/07/2008 19:42:15
#384

Polls are not accurate.

The Irish Lisbon Referdum was a situation that gave the Yes vote a lead according to polls but when the day grew closer the No vote was becoming more popular.
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Scotsman in Dublin,

06/07/2008 19:43:07
Thats got to be the funniest headline i've ever read! To suggest that any major media source in Scotland is pro-SNP is laughable, the BRITISH Broadcasting Corp certainly dont seem very pro-SNP when Wark or Paxman are attacking Salmond on newsnight!
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06/07/2008 19:43:27
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ThomasP,

06/07/2008 19:44:06
#387

Then what is the point of stirring trouble with the Nationalists?

If you think the Union shall continue for years then you would not feel it right to comment on the current state now, would you?
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 19:44:21
#387 elizabeth the first: Awh!! Good night, I wish you sweet dream of the break of the union.
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Conan the Librarian™,

06/07/2008 19:46:07
390
A Stones fan kimbaLiz?
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06/07/2008 19:46:13
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morris,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 19:49:43
One thing that you can be reasonably certain of. Whenever Labour accuse the SNP of anything, it's pretty obvious that they themselves are guilty ,and they think the best way to counter their own failures is claim that somebody else is guilty of what they are definitely guilty of.The BBC is biased in favour of the SNP? Thats laughable!

The BBC does not provide BBC Glasgow with enough funding to be biased toward anything!Its only recently that the BBC had to acknowledge that even the claimed expenditure was a fabrication, and the true figure is an insult to Scotland and her people!

Labour are on the run and desperate. Anybody who votes for a party which cannot possibly survive ,and will guarantee a Tory government against the Scots wishes, needs to have their head examined.

Does Glasgow East want to be known as a one party state,who would elect a Labour candidiate even if it was a monkey?
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:50:29
388. Hello Eve, believe what you will,but i am confident a vote on independence will fail,that is based on polls, and my knowledge of what scots say,and what they actually do are seperate things
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elizabeth the first ,

06/07/2008 19:52:58
482. Get your hankies ready,Labour will win Glasgow East.
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06/07/2008 19:54:06
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06/07/2008 19:55:01
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morris,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 20:01:25
387
The UK could never be closer to breaking than it is now!The safe seat for Lbour does not exist,and anything less than retain Glasgow East with at least a 5,000 majority is a disaster and will break the UK !
Depsite a hostile press and radio and TV which are unsahamedly biased and nothing more than anti Scottish,the SNP have increased their share of the vote.The Union only exists because Labour are far more interested in saving their own skins than what happens to the people of Scotland,and they have already CONNED the numpties into voting for them which resulted 18 years of Tory government including Maggie Thatcher!
Ive heard many Labour voters say they hated that woman.So did I,the difference is I did not elect her ,where as you Labour numbskulls did and again and again Doh!
Labour said its important that they replace the Member for Glasgow East as quickly as possible ?It must be guys,you set a date and did not even have a candidate in place!What a bunch of muppets!
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 20:03:40
#402 elizabeth the first: Are you phycic? (I'm no cause if I was I would know how to spell it)

BUT I have faith, Love and passion for the people in Scotland. And one day I know they'll vote for independence BUT it will be sooner rather than latter as. The way things are at the moment it wouldn't be difficult to break a union after all things are in a downwards sprial and small countrys will surrive more effectively than larger ones.


Look at the state of the econamy, infalaion and creidit crunch this are NOT improving and they won't improve untill things hit lower down.

Must go teas ready!!
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 20:03:40
#402 elizabeth the first: Are you phycic? (I'm no cause if I was I would know how to spell it)

BUT I have faith, Love and passion for the people in Scotland. And one day I know they'll vote for independence BUT it will be sooner rather than latter as. The way things are at the moment it wouldn't be difficult to break a union after all things are in a downwards sprial and small countrys will surrive more effectively than larger ones.


Look at the state of the econamy, infalaion and creidit crunch this are NOT improving and they won't improve untill things hit lower down.

Must go teas ready!!
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Eve,

Scotland 06/07/2008 20:12:48
oopss Sorry about double posting
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brownlie,

06/07/2008 20:16:13
407 Eve

A good post is worth repeating. Nice one, Eve!
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morris,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 20:19:36
402

The position of the SNP has always been that of establishing what level of support exists ,and we accept whatever happens,as we have always done. The Unionists may be correct that the level of support is not as high as the SNP would like,in exactly the same way as the nationalist vote may be higher than claimed.
We will accept the majority declared view and that includes defeat.
This does not however put this to sleep.In a democracy there is no such thing as the settled will of the people,there is only consultation,and clearly how often we consult depends upon the likelihood of a different result and the strength of support.
We had two referenda on devolution.One failed one passed.Thats why we had two!The first was a measure of public opinion on a given day in the same way as an MOT certificate relates to the vehicles noteworthiness on the date of the test and nothing more!The second was also a measure on that date.

No one need fear accountability.If the people want an independent Scotland then so be it.
If they do not,then the UK remains intact.
One thing that all fair minded people should ask is If we are genuinely in favour of Devolution Mk II,how do we know this when we have no idea of what it contains?Or if we do ,its time they told us!
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morris,

edinburgh 06/07/2008 20:22:11
411 Should read roadworthiness of course!
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,

06/07/2008 20:34:33
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Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

06/07/2008 20:37:45
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OARvE4ZzMCY - Let the erradication of parrassite representation commence.
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b.allan,

alba 06/07/2008 20:50:10
The BBC is biased against LIEbour? Why do they churn this garbage out before every election? It's perfectly clear to anyone who has ever watched a political show or picked up a newspaper in Scotland that we have a media with a unionist bias.Frankly, the way Wark treated Salmond was disgraceful. Brewer has always given LIEbour politicians an easy ride as far as i remember.So, what are they ON about?Or is this just a convenient way of taking up column inches to detract from the Marshall corruption story?
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Queen D,

Glasgow 06/07/2008 20:52:38
Hello Eve! Nice to see you in print!
As for HRH , who lives in Bearsden and then ends up in Killearn , ten minutes up the road and then suggests Loch Lomond another ten minutes up the road, please to ignore her!
One who cannot spell dyslexic when castigating others , is not worthy of your attention!
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Bravetart,

06/07/2008 20:57:33
This paper reporting on bias in the same issue as they have an article that totally misrepresents the Curran selection for the by-election shows how ridiculous it has become. Can the SNP have a go at the Scotsman for been bias beyond the call of Stalinist Labour?

I am glad that #1 pointed out the Labourites planted in the Question Time audience to steer the conversations away from giving the Labour representative the grilling they deserve. It was very obvious on last Thursdays show, those two young guys, very misguided and definitely not just interested members of Joe Public.
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ThomasP,

06/07/2008 21:24:28
418#

It would be a short documentary...
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,

06/07/2008 21:33:40
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Gunn,

06/07/2008 21:59:18
This is typical Labour bully-boy intimidation of the BBC. It's happened before - ask Greg Dyke and Andrew Gilligan - and I dare say they'll try it on again. Trouble is they are winning because their starvation of funds to the BBC and the destruction of the old Broad of Governors has resulted in the decimation of the BBC News and Current Affairs unit. Now, don't tell me that is a coincidence.
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Bzzzz,

Inverkeithing 06/07/2008 22:09:07
#269 No monkey man, yer talkin out yer hole, nationalism is all about Scotland, labour is dead in the water, all they are capable of is attempting cheap shots and scaremongering, and why? cos they have no valid arguement as to why independence would be bad for Scotland, England aye, maybe, financially certainly. The union is dead, deal with it. It has done nothing but deprive Scots and Scotland for 300 years. Scotland can and WILL stand proud and this will happen when we wave goodbye to the uj and grovelling unionists.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 22:11:37
New Prime time schedule below. All real programmes.

Should the SNP spit the dummy out? Next to Wark, Paxman and the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation output? Next to the meetings BEFORE and AFTER the election between BBC Scotland's political team and senior members of the Liebour party? Next to the unionist OWNERSHIP of the press in Scotland?

Nah. Instead, Liebour get even MORE press time with more ******* lies about mass media being pro-SNP!!

You couldn't make this s**t up! Well, you could - if you're a despotic, desperate, sweaty West Coast Liebour mafioso member looking for the next best thing to throw at the Scottish public, who are leaving them in droves.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OARvE4ZzMCY

Monday
6:00 I own Britain's best home
7:00 Great British Menu
8:00 Britain: A natural history

Tuesday
6:00 Britain's best 2008
7:00 Britain's got talent
8:00 Britain's next top model

Wednesday
6:00 A history of Britain
7:00 Britain's got more talent
8:00 The trees that made Britain

Thursday
6:00 History of modern Britain
7:00 In Search of Medieval Britain
8:00 The great British body

Friday
6:00 Lost buildings of Britain
7:00 Britain’s lost worlds
8:00 Marco’s great British feast
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 22:12:46
The truth about media control in Scotland?:

All television programmes are to ensure that the words ‘Britain’ or ‘British’ are included in their title, in a move confirmed by Downing Street last night.

Gordon Brown has said that he wanted to further define the principles that 'bind' Britain, whether people ******* wanted it or not.

The move comes only months after the Prime Minister called for the UK’s complete underwear range to be cut from the Union flag, in a bid to ‘rescue it from the far right’.

"It is important to talk about and identify our shared common values and discuss ideas and find ways to celebrate being British," a government spokesman echoed last night.

“The Prime Minister thinks the best way of doing that is to ram the nationally meaningless concept of Britain down your ******* throats, morning, noon and night”

Scottish father of two Robert Brodie commented: "It’s unbelievable – you can’t turn on the set without seeing that foetus Alan Titchmarsh prancing about a Scottish landscape banging on about how great ‘Britain’ is."

“The other night I watched ‘The great British body’ with Trinny and Suzanna. Surely the most pointless excuse for a programme with the word ‘British’ in it ever? Plus the fit one never actually got her **** out.’

Downing Street has rejected allegations that the plan is a conceited, deliberate and transparent response to progressive nationalist governments – particularly in Scotland.

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond ridiculed the move in yesterday’s ‘First Minister’s (British) Questions’, drawing reference to the recently revised and ‘utterly absurd’ cross channel prime time schedule.

“Does the Prime Minister think people are ******* stupid?” he said.
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Cam3,

06/07/2008 22:14:48
Yes, Gordon Brown does think you are stupid.

Kick him and his ill-serving wormtongues out.

Vote for them in the by-election if you're a real fan of poverty.
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Nit- Nat,

06/07/2008 22:52:34
Im a Introvert and i also know a lot about loners.
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:01:43
404. Only 17% of eligible Scots voted SNP, so what?
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Nit- Nat,

06/07/2008 23:02:06
I am having slight discharge of mucus from the a n u s. What can cause this?








lol
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Conan the Librarian™,

06/07/2008 23:05:31
428
Listening to HM?
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,

06/07/2008 23:09:37
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,

06/07/2008 23:11:16
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:11:56
429. Or, more probably, from all the sh*t being spewed by the nats on this site.

He must have picked up an infection as it is quite clear that none of these nats are right in the head.
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Nit- Nat,

06/07/2008 23:13:08
Guess who ?British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???
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,

06/07/2008 23:13:10
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,

06/07/2008 23:13:51
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:14:24
430. How about nats to stop claiming there is "growing support for independence", "independence is inevitable", "the SNP are not a minority party", "the UK is stealing our oil taxes", "Scotland subsidises the rest of the UK, "Scotland subsidises London", "Nats are not anti-English"......
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,

06/07/2008 23:14:49
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:15:38
436. As all of these ridiculous claims are clearly complete b*ll*x with no proof, evidence, indication whatsoever.
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:17:50
Oh, another couple!

"Salmond is an expert in economics" and "Scotland will be one of the wealthiest countries in the world if we had all our oil money".

Again, no evidence in any way, shape or form (and two of my favourites!)
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Conan the Librarian™,

06/07/2008 23:18:57
435
Note the © McMadman.

Though he does fake his arrogant, rude, abrasive and obsessive style quite well...
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,

06/07/2008 23:20:36
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Highland Mighty©,

06/07/2008 23:20:44
I have more...

"Nats know what they are talking about", "Nats aren't gullible", "Nats never make anything up"....