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Plan for all-Gaelic-speaking communities

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Published Date: 01 November 2008
COMMUNITIES where only Gaelic is spoken are being planned for Scotland to help develop everyday use of the language.
It is hoped to set up the initial community of about 1,000 people near Inverness, with the aim of Gaelic being used socially and not "stopping at the school gates".

Finlay MacLeod, who is behind the plan, said while residents in the community woul
d speak Gaelic, there would be a centre to allow people coming in to learn the language within six weeks.

A meeting is to be held in the Highland capital next month to advance the idea, with support said to be growing among activists in Scotland, England, the US and Canada.

"We have to have a space where Gaelic is being used all the time, and without that space the social angle of the language will never be developed," Mr MacLeod said.

"The education of the language will be developed in schools, but what happens is children often stop speaking it as soon as they come out of the school gates, because they do not have the social language that they desire."

He said over the last 50 years the Gaelic community has been destroyed "to the extent that people who speak the language don't believe it should be spoken", and he believes a network of communities could reverse the trend.

"This is to bring together people who speak the language and those who don't, but where there are facilities to learn Gaelic quickly.

"It's easier when neighbours and such like around you speak Gaelic, because it's very difficult in towns and cities, where you don't know people who speak the language."

Critics have said the plan would create Gaelic "ghettos", but Mr MacLeod said: "The same criticism was levelled at Gaelic medium education 25 years ago, but no one is forcing people into these areas and otherwise the language has no chance of survival."

A similar scheme is already in place in Ireland, where the Gaeltacht refers to any district where the government recognises that the Irish language is predominant. One of these areas is Donegal, which has a population of 23,783 and represents 25 per cent of the total Gaeltacht population.

There are fewer than 60,000 Gaelic speakers in Scotland. However, there is a growing interest, with another 30,000 having some knowledge of Gaelic.

Mr MacLeod said education on its own will not be sufficient to save the language: "Social communal language will not get developed in a school, and for that reason families are just as important as education, if not more so."

Arthur Cormack, of Bòrd na Gàidhlig, the agency that advises the Scottish Government on Gaelic issues, said:

"If we can ensure there are reasons for people to use Gaelic in social circumstances, we can achieve, in part, what Finlay wants to see happen.

"But it would be very difficult – and maybe not even desirable – to create an all-Gaelic-speaking community. It would almost be a ghetto of some kind. We would prefer Gaelic to be strengthened and normalised across Scotland."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 31 October 2008 9:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 01/11/2008 00:22:52
Finlay Macleod has to be out of his mind.
2

Guga II,

Rockall 01/11/2008 01:33:04
#1.

Why?
3

Guga II,

Rockall 01/11/2008 01:34:16
#1.

Or should I say c'arson?
4

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 01/11/2008 05:53:09
It's easier when neighbours and such like around you speak Gaelic, because it's very difficult in towns and cities, where you don't know people who speak the language."

Whats difficult I ask you
5

Islandboy2,

Isle of skye 01/11/2008 07:12:42
Scotland is years behind both Wales and Ireland in there treatment of Gaelic and our culture.
6

,

01/11/2008 08:22:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

drunken proffet,

Tassy 01/11/2008 08:26:19
I think that Gaelic should be taught in the schools to those with the inclination. Like the Welsh, English signs with the Gaelic translation underneath. "English go Home" is friendlier when written in Gaelic. Though being a non Gaelic speaking Scot I would say that if you are in a Gaelic speaking pub, the nice guys speak English.
8

The Canadian,

01/11/2008 10:32:13
I can see it will be a golden opportunity for all those against the Gaelic language in Scotland to vent their splean once again. So much for Scotland being anything but an English Colony in mind, words and deeds.

Every language has to have its own space especially when a language like English is breathing down its neck. That is why the French in Canada guard their language space at every juncture. Somehow the Scots seem to have turned into carbon copies of the English.

So much for sentiments in The Declaration of Arbroath.
9

Corrennie,

01/11/2008 13:08:49
Wow.

Sounds exciting. Still, will leave more room for those who want to converse in English.

Perhaps thesame idea could be applied to those who want to talk 'Scots' (a guttersnipe, garbled version of English)?



10

Scimitar1,

Alba 01/11/2008 13:30:13
No 10 - There are very few Scots left in the highlands these days. The "new" Scots showed their wrath a few years ago by vehemently opposing the Gaelic medium school proposal in Argyle. Any culture subjected to the intense in-migration evident over the last 3 decades simply must be diluted. The Gaels are currently running against that tide.

"Somehow the Scots seem to have turned into carbon copies of the English." - True , most Scots either dont know or simply don't care.

No 6 : Idiotic comment.
11

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 01/11/2008 15:01:26
#4
You make a very good point. Gaelic speakers do tend to be careful not to speak in their tongue in the company of non-speakers as a matter of simple courtesy. As a result, Gaelic speakers often do not realise they are in the company of others.

A few years ago, it was suggested (by a young SMO student) at a conference in Inverness that Gaelic speakers should be encouraged to wear a small pin (gold for native or fluent speakers and silver for the less fluent) to identify themselves. The idea was greeted very enthusiastically by everyone but I haven't heard anything since.
12

The Canadian,

01/11/2008 16:31:42
6
How do you create a space for a language to develop naturally without all Gaelic communities. Neither the English nor the French nor the Germans would have sustainable language communities without ensuring this was their policy as well.

13

I can only hope that this idea of courtesy being shown to English speakers who are nomally mono-lingual and in the main try their very best to destroy other languages especially minority languages is still not practised in Scotland.
Have they still not realised or grasped the fact that this was one of the best ploys ever used to kill Gaelic, Welsh, Irish and many others.

13

radge dug,

01/11/2008 17:54:28
Can't see it working. Gaels are just too polite.

The Gaelic learners of Belfast did it well and Gaelic is a living language in parts of Belfast. The Welsh did it but they are more militant than the Gaels.

WE need locals in both the islands and the cities to push for Gaelic only schools first. We also need more contempory youth culture like the Welsh have. Need to get away from Gaelic choirs and Arts-council funded 'faces' who sing auld songs but can't write their own new ones.
14

radge dug,

Dun Eideann 01/11/2008 17:56:14
#14 English speakers can't even learn Spanish or French when they move to the respective countries. And as these forums here show, there's plenty of dumb Scots who revel in their ignorance of Gaelic, Scotland's history and other cultures in general.
15

Saoghal Beag,

01/11/2008 19:41:51
what's ghaidhlig for ghetto?
16

The Canadian,

01/11/2008 21:31:56
17
What is the English for ghetto? There are thousands of English ghettos in England, Canada, Australa, Spain, the USA, France and New Zealand.

Ma tha thu airson Gaidhlig a bhruidhinn chan eil agad ach innse co thu agus cuirear brath ort.
17

Gràisg,

Inbhir Narann 02/11/2008 00:00:56
Seo rudeigin a sgrìobh mi thall aig Fòram na Gàidhlig ceangailte leis a' chuspair a tha seo:

Plana Fionnlaigh no Plana Bòrd na Gàidhlig – Dè dìreach a tha an diofar eadarra?

Tha Fionnlagh airson coimhearsnachd Gàidhlig ùr a chruthachadh, coimhearsnachd fa leth bho shaoghal na Beurla far am biodh làimh an uachdar aig a’ Ghàidhlig. ’S e sin an sealladh a tha aige airson ath-thilleadh gluasad chanain a choileanadh. Agus cho fad’ s as aithne dhomh ‘s e a’ phrìomh amas aig Bòrd na Gàidhlig gus coimhearsnachdan Gàidhlig a neartachadh? Ge b’ e do bheachd air Fionnlagh tha e air a bhith a’ toirt sùil air suidheachadh min-chànain eile air feadh an t-saoghal far a bheil adhartas feumail a’ dol air adhart agus ‘s ann as a sin a tha a cuid beachdan stèidhichte. A-rèir coltais rinn Bòrd na Gàidhlig an aon rud gus am plana aca a chur air dòigh ach feumaidh mi aideachadh chuala mi bho eòlaiche gu robh am plana aca a’ crochadh gu mòr air a’ phlana chuimris. Tha ceist aig Fionnlaigh, ‘ma bhios sibh ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig, dè an ceann-uidhe a th’ agaibh?’ ’S e deagh cheist a th’ ann an sin nach e?. Carson a tha sinn ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig? Uill bìdh adhbharan pearsanta aig a h-uile fear no tè againn ach bidh sinn uile airson a’ chànan a shàbhaladh, nach bi? An e sin a’ phrìomh amas aig a’ bhòrd bhrath seo. An tèid e a dhèanamh? Am bi na h-oidhirpean againn gu mòran feum? Cia mheud luchd-ionnsachaidh a tha tighinn gu buill?. Aon as gach ceud, no nas lugha na sin? Tha Art MacCormaig a-mach air ciamar a dh’adhbharachadh plana Fionnlaigh ‘ghetto’, uill a bheil ‘ghetto’ againn ann an seo – Ghetto ‘mas fhìor’ luchd-ionnsachaidh na Gàidhlig far nach eil na buidheann oifigeach a’ gabhail ùidh. Carson nach do chuir a leithid Clì Gàidhlig rudeigin ris an canar ‘Fòram na Gàidhlig’ an àirde? Tha sin beò ann an saoghal far a bheil daoine a’ sùileachadh ‘Eadar-lìn 2’, (web2 mar a chanas iad – ‘s e sin ri ràdh goireasan ‘inter-active’ agus chan eil luchd ionnsachaidh na Gàidhlig diofraicht
18

Gràisg,

02/11/2008 00:03:00
bho duine sam bith eile a tha a’ cleachdadh an t-eadar-lìn). ’S e seo an t-àite far a bheil sin a’ tighinn gus beagan Gàidhlig fhaighinn. Tha criomagan Gàidhlig ri fhaighinn faisg air làimh airson feadhainn dhinn taobh a-muigh air falbh bho na coimpiutaran. An dà chuid air a’ phrìomh sràid ‘s docha agus air an eadra-lìn ma bhios sibh fortanach gu leòr. Chan eil sin ri fhaighinn airson a h-uile duine ge-tà, dhaibhsan chan eil ach na goireasan air loidhne gus beagan Gàidhlig a thogail. Leis a sin a bheil sinn a’ tuigsinn dè tha a’ cur piseach air smaointinn Fionnlaigh. A bheil feadhainn dhinn ro luath gus a bhith ga chàineadh gun a bhith a’ toirt sùil mionaideach air cùisean a thaobh ciamar a soirbheachas ath-thilleadh gluasad cànan.

A-nis a bheil Plana Bòrd na Gàidhlig a faighinn air adhart? A bheil iadsan a’ neartachadh coimhearsnachdan Gàidhlig? Tha tuilleadh clann ag ionnsachadh Gàidhlig sna sgoiltean a-nis ach a bheil iad ga chleachdadh taobh a-muigh geataichean na sgoile agus tha soidhnichean spaideil dà-chànanach rim fhaicinn faisg air puirt-adhair Inbhir Nis ach an e sin gu leòr? Gu ruige seo tha mise air a bhith taiceil don Phlana aig Bòrd na Gàidhlig agus bidh mi a’ cumail a’ dol leis an taic ud ach cuin a bhios sinn a’ faicinn fìor thoradh às? Feumaidh mi aideachadh tha amharas agam gum bi Plana na Gàidhlig ro anmoch airson a’ chanain ann an Inbhir Narann. Sgrìobh mi mu a dheidhinn agus faodaidh sinn sin fhaicinn air an duilleig seo.
'Ath-thilleadh gluasad cànain ann an Inbhir Narann:
cothrom a tha a’ dol a-mach à sealladh?'
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcwcj74b_32f5nchjdh

Tha Gàidhlig fhathast a’ crìonadh, gu dearbh tha clann a’ dol dhan na sgoiltean Gàidhlig, ach cait a bheil an coimhearsnachd Gàidhlig às dèidh na sgoiltean agus obair an latha ri chùl aig na buidhinn Gàidhlig? Leis a laigse a tha sin am biodh dad ceàrr ann nan robh Plana B a’ ruith aig an aon àm? Carson a bu choir monopolaidh a bhith aig duine sam bith? Ma bhios feadhai
19

Gràisg,

02/11/2008 00:08:51
airson coimhearsnachd ùr a chruthachadh dè a tha ceàrr le sin.
Leig leotha a’ dol air adhart ann an stoidhle sam bith a thogras iad. ’S e sin am beachd a tha agamsa co-dhiù.
20

ARP,

Scotland 02/11/2008 13:32:55
Are there not enough divisions among humanity? Why would anyone want to synthesize any more?
21

Calum Crubag,

02/11/2008 14:13:00
#23 - I agree. Let's force everyone in the world to speak American English. That will make everything better. Maybe the ideas of Adolph Hitler were right? Wipe out any trace of 'difference' and everything will be OK.

Those who say that we can benefit from learning about the natural diversity of the world are speaking nonsense.

And, ARP, i look forward to your nexst post in pure-Anglo-Saxon with no 'foreign' loan words.
22

GEORGE KING,

DUMFRIES SCOTLAND 02/11/2008 19:39:59
What a good idea everyone in Scotland must be made to learn this language - make it compulsory.


23

,

02/11/2008 23:17:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

Brad,

Glasgow 03/11/2008 14:02:34
Fine, as long as they pay privately for all the infrastructure and services that this will deny the vast majority.
25

Houssine,

Nanterre 03/11/2008 14:47:02
I have read an article about disparition of arab language in arabs countries thoward english.All the elits in arab gulf countries use english as a dailly langage, the same case was in North africa where most peoples practice french and no english.The berber language was old and a live still today, they are twoo or three millions poeples in north africa who practice berbers, they are three varieties of berbers language, the Chleuh based in south morocco around Agadir town, the the berber of the rif and the berber of Algeria.
In arab countries islam have do a great role in the prevation of the local tonght rather the Kuran and the church was in arabic tongs, then you can see the kurdish as the farsi, the urdu, the turkish was a live at today.And we can see the english don't accept other area where he is practices as french.The Gaelic as all celtics language was in condition of extection if nothing was do and it's more correct to call the most celtics language don't have any existence and many speaker of this langage use english as french word whit a celtic grammar.
I have proposed in other time, in a precedent comments a good technic to permit who are blind to learn gaelic article ,they are logitiel who permit a person to listen to the article.
Personaly i listen evry day three or four article in english but i can't do the same whit the gaelic articles, my hoppe is to work whit MacLeod to promot gaelic langguage, i have proposed his introduction in a prison to give the opportunity of prisoner to teach gaelic...for me , i regreat attaks against gaelic from peoples pretexting freedom...a russian children teach russian, a french children teach french, an english children teach english and i don't understand why a scotich children dont' teach gaelic???
26

Houssine,

Nanterre 03/11/2008 14:53:44
Lesneven, l'ethnologue Hocine Nedjar participe au stage d'immersion de Ti ar vro. Une manière « de pénétrer l'esprit de la population ».
« C'est une semaine dense, qui construit mon imaginaire. » Hocine Nedjar, ethnologue de 43 ans né en France de parents algériens, achève son stage intensif de breton à Lesneven. C'est la deuxième fois qu'il participe à la session proposée par l'association Ti ar vro. Cours, théâtre, chant, visites, hébergement chez l'habitant : les stagiaires vivent et parlent breton du matin au soir.

Hocine Nedjar vit à Nanterre ; il pratique le breton depuis sept ans. Chaque vendredi soir, il rejoint l'association des Bretons de Rueil-Malmaison pour parler « brezhoneg ». Son métier le porte naturellement à se familiariser avec les langues minoritaires. « C'est nécessaire pour pénétrer l'esprit d'une population, explique-t-il. On a tous une culture qui nous appartient. Elle est indispensable pour se connaître et accepter les autres. »

Au-delà de l'aspect professionnel de l'immersion, Hocine Nedjar évoque pourtant une démarche personnelle. « Ma grand-mère algérienne ne parlait pas un mot de français. J'ai commencé à m'interroger sur la pluralité de ma culture. De 1973 à 1986, j'ai découvert l'Algérie. Et ma culture à travers les autres, moi qui ne parlais pas arabe. C'est là que j'ai développé un regard ethnologique. »

Le jeune homme revient en France poursuivre ses études supérieures en histoire et ethnologie. « J'ai fait la connaissance d'un Breton, raconte Hocine Nedjar. J'ai découvert la langue et la spiritualité bretonnes. » L'île de Groix et le breton vannetais deviennent alors ses spécialités ; il leur consacre un mémoire.

L'ethnologue en est persuadé, « la langue bretonne est le reflet de la civilisation bretonne. À côté de la mondialisation, il faut préserver les langues minoritaires. Le breton compte 300 000 locuteurs ; 15 000 d'entre eux ont moins de 40 ans. Mais il y a des initiatives individuelles qui illustrent la persév
27

Houssine,

Nanterre 03/11/2008 14:55:49
http://www.quimper.maville.com/D-origine-algerienne-il-est-accro-au-breton-/re/actudet/actu_dep-622420------_actu.html
28

Masterpiece,

03/11/2008 16:49:07
23
Is it time for us all to learn Hindi and forget about English, after all most European languages came from India and that includes English in all its forms.

27
Clearly, only English speakers pay for government services in Scotland; and to think that all the Gaelic cultural products like Whisky contributed to our wealth as well. Alas no tax it seems is ever paid on such products.
29

Masterpiece,

03/11/2008 18:46:08
27 Brad
I understand that the cost of refurbishing and not a new build of Millburn Academy in Inverness was either £26 or £27million which is an English-medium school.

Now just imagine the noise and HOO-HAH that would blow up if the same kind of money was spend on a Gaelic-medium High School anywhere in Scotland. Please do not tell me there isn't a difference in the system.

30

Calum Crubag,

04/11/2008 21:49:04
Much of the money that is given to local councils for Gaelic medium seems to go astray somewhere. The Gaelic medium unit in Stirling is woefully underfunded yet the council presumably gets the same grant that others do. Where is the cash going?
31

eamon,

04/11/2008 22:44:51
I have had the pleasure of meeting Mr Mac Leoid on a few occasions and feel if anybody can get this off the ground he will. He is a realist, knows the territory, and has a great passion for his native tongue. If he succeeds with this project my name will be on the first application form through the door.

33 Councils everywhere promise to promote gaelic and pretend to be interested but in reality if you try to open a gaelic medium unit they put so many barriers in the way and take so long to do anything your child is in p4 and no longer qualifies for GM education. Even if you meet all criteria. All children should have gaelic education available to them in the highlands and islands from nursery on. No more second class status in our own land.
32

Dòmhnall,

Craigentaggart 06/11/2008 01:11:31
spoken to Fionnlagh Mac Leoid a number of times. a great man. I wish him well and look forward to seeing this in action.
33

Tearlach,

Juneau 08/11/2008 05:03:33
I've met and spoken with Fhionnladh as well.

A language needs language communities to thrive. What Fionnlagh is proposes makes perfect sense. There already is a certain amount resources dedicated to preserving and prospering the language. The question is what is the best use of them. This may very well be a very good use of a portion of these resources.
34

MacMhuirich,

Ljubljana 19/11/2008 15:37:59

Sounds like an interesting idea to me, but I wonder ...while we try to create a new community near Inverness (which we don't know will work), we might lose the existing ones in the Western Isles, Tiree and Skye.

I also wonder whether it might not be more effective to try to strengthen Gaelic speaking networks throughout the country.

Does any one know if they have tried this in Ireland (apart from the Meath Gaeltacht)?
35

Masterpiece,

22/11/2008 16:10:22
Just spoke to Fionnlagh this afternoon and he cannot understand why the setting up of one small Gaelic community would stop anyone strengthening all the others. Indeed, he would welcome this with open arms as one development does not go against the other.

Just get on and do it rather than just talking about it; to much talking and very little action.
36

Roy,

07/12/2008 10:05:30
No. 13 Jacqueline. Fionnlagh had such an idea many years ago. Somewhere, hidden away in a drawer, I have a blue tin badge that he produced for this purpose.
37

salmondella,

UK 06/01/2009 11:25:17
Here we go again, another intiative to restore and revive Gaelic. How many times have we heard this. If people want to speak or learn gaelic -good luck to them - its just not a burning issue in Craigmillar or Castlemilk. - Gaels do us a favour - just get on with what you have to do and stop lecturing the vast majority of Scots who are not interested in speaking it, listening to it or being constantly reminded by the minority that its our language -its not!

 

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