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Head of Kirk backs Williams over Sharia row

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Published Date: 10 February 2008
THE head of the Church of Scotland has come out in support of the Archbishop of Canterbury, describing the public's response to his comments on Sharia law as a "witch-hunt".
The Right Reverend Sheilagh Kesting promised to stand by beleaguered Archbishop Rowan Williams, who was yesterday facing calls for him to resign after claiming the adoption of Islamic creeds in the UK appeared "unavoidable".

Pressure on the Archbi
shop to stand down grew last night when William's predecessor, Lord George Carey, accused the present leader of the Anglican Church of overstating the case for accommodating Islamic legal codes in the UK, saying it would be "disastrous" for the nation.

But even though he added he could not "share" Williams' view, he too said the Archbishop should not be forced to quit over his controversial remarks.

Yesterday, the outspoken Williams remained silent as he attended a memorial service for a colleague, but his presence at the church in Cambridge brought a mixture of boos and applause from the crowd outside.

However, he has received the support of many people, including leading members of the Muslim faith, who consider his words to be of great foresight.

In Scotland, Kesting has written a letter of support to Williams, stating that she believed his views on Sharia law had been "wilfully misconstrued".

She added: "I am appalled by the way in which the response to your lecture has become a personal witch-hunt calling for your resignation.

"I consider it fortunate that we have a Christian leader in this country who is prepared to initiate deep and thoughtful consideration of sensitive issues and I am alarmed at the way in which your intentions can be wilfully misconstrued."

Lord Carey said he understood the Archbishop had been "horrified" by the adverse reaction to his remarks and the mounting calls for him to go. But, writing in a Sunday newspaper, Carey said: "He has in my opinion overstated the case for accommodating Islamic legal codes.

"His conclusion that Britain will eventually have to concede some place in law for aspects of Sharia is a view I cannot share.

"There can be no exceptions to the laws of our land which have been so painfully honed by the struggle for democracy and human rights.

"His acceptance of some Muslim laws within British law would be disastrous for the nation."

Meanwhile, it has emerged that Sharia law is being used by Scottish Muslims to settle disputes ranging from divorce and wills to arguments over property.

Informal Sharia courts are convened on an ad hoc basis to hand down judgments, but Muslim leaders insist the practice is used by a minority and in no way undermines the British legal system.

Last night, Bashir Maan, the convenor of the Muslim Council of Scotland, said he believed that Sharia law could happily co-exist alongside the existing British legal system.

He continued: "It is only those who are allergic to Islam who are creating all this fuss about the very thought-provoking and indeed very welcome remarks of the Archbishop."



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1

DrP,

10/02/2008 00:43:22
I wonder if the Right Rev Sheilagh Kesting's support for the Archbishop implies that she would like the Church of Scotland to resume the power it had in the days of Robert Burns. A friend once described it as the 'Scottish Taliban'!
There is simply no case whatsoever for adopting Sharia law, if for no other reason than it's misogyny.
2

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 10/02/2008 00:46:32
trouble is they will either be given it or they will bomb us until they get it .


Enoch was right, just understated
3

Garry Otton,

Glasgow 10/02/2008 00:46:41
We've got our own archibishop. He's called Alex Salmond. He supports sectarian schools and wants taxpayers to fund Muslims schools too. He holds behind the scenes talks with the Catholic Church and takes money off religious crackpots. A modern secular Scotland in Europe? I don't think so!
4

Mazhar,

Ottawa, Canada 10/02/2008 01:07:32
It's a needless Islamophobic discussion. It's "white propaganda" against Islam, to scare people off the fastest growing religion on the face of this earth.

Sharia is NOT a law, for Pete's sake. It's an effort to live your life like Prophet Muhammad. And nobody else but Muslims can follow it (if they want to). Just like Jews and Christians. Every Muslim should, and they do follow law of the land (it's in Holy Quran). There's no Sharia mentioned in the holy book

By the way what Archbishop is recommending is already implemented in Canada. Brits are far behind in recognizing other cultures and faiths.

Proud Canadian.

Mazhar
5

The Daleks,

10/02/2008 01:14:34
You're the nutter #4.

Enoch Powell was right, and now the mass immigration chickens are coming home to roost.

If you thought the attacks in London and Glasgow came as a shock, just wait til you see what's round the corner.

Williams and the other religious Quislings should be hounded out of office and all the way to Saudi Arabia. Wonder how long they'd last there?

6

Canada,

southampton 10/02/2008 02:01:12
With Sheilagh Kesting's support of Williams no wonder the Church of Scotland is becoming as irrelevant as its southern counterpart. What would John Knox say?
7

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 10/02/2008 02:12:27
The head of the church of Scotland taking sides with the head of the (Roman) church of England in supposing that sharia will be incorporated in British law?

Now where are the wee green men?
8

Silence of the Yams,

10/02/2008 02:18:57
Every day that passes proves Enoch Powell was 100% right.
9

Evia,

10/02/2008 02:36:36
Enoch Powell was right. The politicians should have heeded him. I don't mean that immigration should have been stopped altogether but there is a limit to what the long-suffering people can stand. I don't mind having immigrants but do not want my country taken over by people making excessive demands.

The Right Reverend Sheilagh Kesting should resign along with the Archbishop.

No to any part of Sharia because that will just be a start and all will gradually creep over us.
10

Thorson ,

Peterborough , Ontario , Canada 10/02/2008 02:41:54
Ref No. 6 Proud Canadian, Mazhar tells us

"By the way what Archbishop is recommending is already implemented in Canada. Brits are far behind in recognizing other cultures and faiths."

-------------------------------------------------------
In actual fact the situation in Ontario and the rest of Canada is quite the opposite

Ref CBC Report 2005/09/09
see Google - Sharia,Ontario


Premier Dalton McGuinty said today Ontario will reject the use of Shariah law and will move to prohibit all religious-based tribunals to settle family disputes such as divorce.

His announcement comes after hundreds of demonstrators around the world this week protested a proposal to let Ontario residents use Islamic law for settling family disputes.

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty was reacting to a recommendation, by former NDP attorney general Marion Boyd, to allow Muslims to establish Shariah-based tribunals similar to Jewish and Catholic arbitration bodies
11

,

10/02/2008 02:44:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Pictman,

Canberra 10/02/2008 03:44:34
As an agnostic can I ask why stop at Sharia? Why not introduce laws particular to people of non Christian denominations other than Islam? Not to do so would surely be discriminatory?
13

Encephalon,

10/02/2008 06:34:56
"THE head of the Church of Scotland "


Since when-she may be Moderator but it is misleading to call the misguided lady "Head"- certainly not "Head" as it is understood in the Anglican or Roman Church and her views should not be construed as having any authoritative weight.

The Rev is another PC liberal fool living in a utopian la-la land where all cultures and religions are accorded equal status-she is presumably trying to be controversial -trying to be important-but her views are irrelevant but they do demonstrate just why the CoS has lost its congregation- it is no longer the voice of the nation and is totally out of touch with ordinary people on this and so many other issues.

As for the comments above regarding Enoch Powell-he was the last politician in this country with any integrity -the current crop are a bunch of self-serving xxxxers who will say and do anything-witness Salmon last week courting faith schools to prepare us for publcly funded Islamic schools and as for the Labour lot-they should be in jail and the Tories are no better.

Enoch has been proven to be correct in his views on immigration-something that was forced on the British people by our political masters. Now the results of this policy are becoming evident in this Dis-united Kingdom and Scotland is just waking up to the scale of the problem-the Glasgow Airport bombing was the alarm bell going off- Allah's willing executioners are on their way!
14

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 07:35:44
The head of the Kirk has to back Williams, he has no choice! In his world, you tow the line, regardless of whether that line involves deceit, lies or dishonesty!
The Kirk must stand together. All religious organisations are the same. Yes there will be some within the organisations who will offer concerned words, but they will be few and far between, and probably out on their a$$es in a year or so.
15

Road to the isles,

10/02/2008 08:03:03
Media1

Read the article! He is a she and if you had any sort of a brain you would 'toe the line'.
16

Pocket Dictionary,

10/02/2008 08:27:40
If Sharia law is introduced in Scotland, who's going to sell the extreme p.o.r.n. mags and Buckfast?
Scottish Muslim shopkeepers would see a huge drop in their incomes.
17

McMicrogal,

10/02/2008 09:25:41
If Sharia law is simply about trying to live your life the way of the prophet Mohammed then I suggest we lock up all of our young boys for their protection :o/
18

Boy Wonder,

10/02/2008 09:29:15
Sharia Law has no place in this country. Nor does Judaic or Christian Law come to that! Anyone who comes to this country to live, or is brought up here, must accept the State Law and that's all there is to it! Religion has no place in the implementation of democractic law for all.
19

Max Born,

10/02/2008 09:29:28
#5 Dragonhead.
I was about to click the link to report you,but realised that it reads "Report Unsuitable" and not report as unstable.
20

,

10/02/2008 09:37:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
21

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 10/02/2008 09:37:36
The "Enoch was right" brigade are out in force. I wonder what he would have thought. I suspect he would have viewed Ross Fyffe and others as "somewhat neanderthal", a phrase he used to describe a prominent racist. On the other hand, he may have shared Ross Fyffe's view on women with "monthlies". He wasn't too keen on a woman heading the Conservative party.

Enoch Powell held many unusual views during his life.

"I see growing on the horizon the greater peril than Germany or Japan ever were..." He was referring to "our terrible enemy, America..."

Personally, I think he became unhinged when his boyhood dream of becoming Viceroy of India evaporated.

22

truthsleuth,

10/02/2008 12:16:52
Enoch got it right

The 'Nutters' inhabit the PC/appeasers world and cannot see the Third World War' is an insidious creeping invasion by the minority of a Religious faith that terrorises its own believers into submission.

23

Geoff,

sa 10/02/2008 12:53:44
What ever one's general opinion of Enoch Powell, his life story is worth a read. An amazing man who was not as ultra right britnat in all his views as he has been portrayed. For example he said of Britains joining of the USA in the defence of Kuwait on the basis that they wanted to help defend small nations"I sometimes wonder if, when we shed our power,we omitted to shed our arrogance!" Also opposed strongly the shooting of three IRA operatives in Gibralter. His military and academic career in terms of achievement ranks up there with many better known Statesmen. The Sharia Law debate-I guess he would have said" I rest my case" although he was a fluid thinker and possibly would have seen some merit in the call as the effects of Immigration have by now changed the face of Britain indelibly. For a man who wanted to be Viceroy of India, on Indian Independence he accepted the loss of Empire and became anti-imperialist.
With him anything was possible.

24

Geoff,

sa 10/02/2008 13:05:35
Powell also said of Labour's 1997 Election victory" The electorate have voted to break-up the United Kingdom!!"
25

Thorr,

Scotland 10/02/2008 15:12:03
#6 Mazhar

You forgot to mention the sentence of 200 lashes handed to a female Muslinm in Saudi recently for being in the company of an Unrelated male. I believe that this sentence was in accordance with Sharia Law.

Female Muslims are stoned to death for adultry, even the size of the stones used are prescribed so as not to bring swift death, again we are dealing with Sharia law. This barbaric practice of stoning together with the amputation of hands of those who steal are carried out in Muslim countries in accordance with Sharia Law. Religous police rigorously enforce dress codes,decide what is appropriate behaviour in terms of good, liberal old Sharia Law. Allah forbid if you as an individual decide you want a hairstyle or haircut of your own choice. There is a lot more but space on this column is limited so I will ask you one question.

Who do you think you are fooling????
26

Jaggy,

10/02/2008 15:37:23
I think Muslims should be allowed to lead their lives according to Sharia law. It would not be uncharitable for us to buy them a one way ticket back to Saudi or Afghanistan to enable this.
27

Thorr,

Scotland 10/02/2008 15:37:26
Remember Kosovo! Once the Muslim population became the majority group they initiated a terrorist campaigne carried out by the Kosovo Liberation Army. They proceeded to murder many Serb Police officials. When Serbia was finally goaded into retaliating they lost their historical teritory of Kosovo because the Muslims became the majority group.

Leicester will have a non-white majority in five years, Birmingham will have a Muslim majority in ten. With all that concentrated anti-white race hate around Britain Sharia Law will be inevitable. Get those Burqas ready ladies!

Remember you too played a part in giving the country away to an alien culture so do not complain too loudly when you are eventually flogged in public for dressing in a way considered inapropriate by the then Muslim majority.

You all deserve what is comming your way, you all voted for a succession of Governments bent on implementing a policy of constructive genocide. Slowly, the policy of replacing the indiginous population with people from Africa and Asia went unchallenged by the voting public.

Remember if the majority vote to bring in the stoning of adultresses then the majority vote wins.
28

Media 1,

cape town 10/02/2008 16:48:28
#17 Road to the isles

No point in reading the story, the headline is enough!
The kirk is a disgrace.
29

,

10/02/2008 18:21:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
30

Willhellm Anderson,

10/02/2008 18:31:03
No wonder the Protestant people of Scotland are floundering and rudderless. We have do - gooders who will appease anyone just to be politically correct.

When will someone in the church stand up for the people they supposedly represent?

When will someone in the church stand up to sectarian schooling and the politicians who support these abomnations?

The C.O.S is dying on its feet, due to the nonentities who lead this once great symbol of the Scottish people.
31

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow. 10/02/2008 19:11:19
There should be no place for any religion to be involved with state law.The moderator and the archbishop have done a disservice to their members.
32

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 19:19:41
2 - Enoch was wrong on most things he opined on except the music of Wagner
33

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 19:21:38
8 - who cares what John Knox would have said, him and his like supported the burning of witches.
34

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 19:23:17
13 - err... whatever happened to Christian charity ?
Jesus luvs ya, baby !
35

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 19:29:25
Enich was right ? On immigration - this is the same gut, when Minister for Health brought in thousands of West Indians for cheap labour in the NHS.
On economics - he was a pre-Thatcher Thatcherite. well we can see what THAT did for the people of the country as apoosed to the spivs of the city.
Northern Ireland - he backed the UUP - where are they now ? !
EEC - he said Vote No, the country voted Yes !
36

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 19:30:52
32 - Sure it's old but it is beautiful, eh ?
37

Jaggy,

10/02/2008 20:12:10
Enoch was wrong on most issues. His position on immigration was and is wrong. As a country, we have enjoyed continuous immigration for centuries and it has almost always been beneficial.

The problem today is "multi-culturalism" which is encouraging certain immigrants that they can have all the benefits of our society and economy without having to accept our culture. It is people like the Moderator and the A of C who are at fault. The immigrants do't come here asking to be treated differently, it is our own idiots who want to give it to them on a plate.
38

Allan(handofgod137),

10/02/2008 20:14:31
Well, there's on party awake to the danger,and prepared to do something about it if elected.
http://www.bnp.org.uk/sms-news-texts/
"IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH!

On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries."

For those of you who can't copypasta
39

Pilrig.,

Livingston 10/02/2008 20:31:11
More chance you winning the lottery millions than the bnp getting elected. Anyway they are an alien creed in Scotland.
40

boudica,

Glasgow 10/02/2008 20:41:11
It seems the Silent majority in the UK are no longer silent and this is down to the Arch-bish and his comments on how "the acceptance of some of Sharia Law is unavoidable" has as they say been the " Final Straw that broke the camels back "...and of course all the Looney Leftist PC mob have weighed in and are calling all those that oppose or have critised the Arch-bish and his comments are Islamaphobic , Racist etc ...but what they fail to see is also a marked difference in how we deal with Insults like this as They arent running around burning flags or effegies nor attacking Muslim Communities nor Blowing Up the Local Mosque or taking Hostages ..No they have just raised their Voices and gave ..a resounding No...The Arch-bish should now realise that because the Churches are empty that is more a sign that the people no longer have faith in their Church Leaders but still have their faith and are prepared to Voice their support of it what ever denomination that may be , ..God Bless em ..
41

Selgovae,

Clear Air Turbulence 10/02/2008 21:36:55
#40 Allan(handofgod137)

"we, the native British people,"

And who's they? Last time I looked, the BNP stopped the immigration clock before the Normans got here. You gonna resettle everyone?
42

Beth Boyle,

Western, NY 10/02/2008 22:46:12
Sharia law has no place in the west. Williams should step down now and craw back to some university and hide forever. Let him write poems about how badly he was treated and nurse his wounds out of sight and out of mind.
43

A former Moderator,

Kirriemuir 10/02/2008 22:56:10
The Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland is not the "Head of Kirk" - not in fact, not in law, not in theology, not nominally, not notionally, and not in any other way. The only King and Head recognised by the Kirk, from the Reformation to the present day, is Jesus Christ. Under Christ, the highest authority in the Kirk is the General Assembly. In relation to all other ministers and elders, the
Moderator is "first among equals".
The Church of England would not deny the headship of Christ, but under him it has a hierachy, headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He is expected to be a leader, which involves speaking his mind. Those who call for his resignation because they disagree with him have things totally out of proportion. (It is the Alice in Wonderland "Off with their heads" mentality, of which we see too much in politics already.) If people like that were in power, Rowan Williams and his like would be muzzled, and that would be disastrous for democracy as well as for religion.
If wrong-headed, ignorant, and intemperate opinions were not allowed, few of the above comments would be published.
44

S MacLeod,

10/02/2008 23:06:27
#45,

Yes.
45

Mazhar,

Ottawa 11/02/2008 06:38:57
It's all propaganda with no solid reference or valid context. That’s why I call it "white/gray propaganda" against Islam. And some churches are mainly responsible for this. Every now and then a Pop or Archbishops spreads this kind of lame “propaganda” on Islam to ignite people.

Read my lips “Muslims don’t want 'Sharia' on any other kind of law”. Churches are using this as weapon against Islam. This kind of law is tailor made for Saudia or Afghanistan (both of these states are under American rule right now).
46

Mazhar,

Ottawa 11/02/2008 06:49:43
In Canada, including Ontario, Muslim marriage is recognized. A Muslim Imam can issue a marriage certificate.
Brits are far behind in recognizing Muslim faith or other cultures.
47

,

11/02/2008 12:17:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
48

Leithen Laddie,

Borders 11/02/2008 13:18:31
It is high time that the so called national church gave some spirtual and moral leadership. Instead of playing politics C of S should be teaching bible based truth. One faith, One lord etc.. Bishop Williams has betrayed the christian church and it is time C of S spokepersons stated this.
49

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 11/02/2008 15:18:30
There is Scots Law and British Law these are state matters.

There are many different religious practices, these are not laws via enforcement, as for example Scots law is, yet the Cristian/Mohamedean religions are not.

There must be no religious involvement in any state law.

Any informal 'law' should be raided and the perpetrators severely dealt with due to practicing another law which is not that of the country in concern.

Gandi chose not to recognise British english colonial law in his natve India.

We chose not to recognise anything other that our own law in Scotland, as you would in Britain.
50

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 11/02/2008 15:22:58
Salmond is way of course attempting to create faith schools in Scotland, we have been slowly -and in the past violently- moving away from religious control in state matters, as with religious controlled schools (see narrow unbalanced outlook).

This is 2008 not 608
51

Hunky Dorey,

Scotland belongs to us all 11/02/2008 21:26:49
# 3 Garry...... " A modern secular Scotland in Europe"? "I dont think so" How right you are Garry! With anti- Catholic bigots like you here in Scotland,( Scotlands shame )it looks as if we will be stuck in the 17th century for quite a time to come. Scotland belongs to us all,not just the John Knox bigots.
52

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 11/02/2008 21:39:13
# 53 Ard Righ ( High King in the foreign English tongue) If we have been moving away from religious control in state matters, why then is our head of state (the queen of England)the official guardian of the anti- Roman Catholic laws found in the form of the British act of settlement 1701. Why is our Prime minister in London allowed to appoint Protestant only bishops to the house of lords?This is an appalling case of state sponsored sectarianism, to be found in no other European country.
53

Hunky Dorey,

11/02/2008 21:45:47
#32..... Yes Mr 32! Thank God your type are a dying breed.

 

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