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Church of Scotland backs Islamic sharia law courts

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Published Date: 10 October 2008
THE Church of Scotland last night welcomed the possibility of introducing sharia law courts in Scotland.
Rev Ian Galloway, convener of the Church and Society Council, said sharia courts had been unfairly portrayed following the Archbishop of Canterbury's comments in February that it "seems unavoidable" that parts of Islamic sharia law would be adopted in the UK.

Yesterday, The Scotsman revealed the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, based in Nuneaton, Warwickshire, was holding secret talks with lawyers and community groups about setting up sharia courts north of the Border.

Mr Galloway said: "What is being brought to us is not some kind of parallel jurisdiction that replaces our legal system; rather it is a space, within a given community, for disputes to be resolved."

But he added that sharia courts must meet three crucial standards – they must not preclude recourse to the courts, must not break fundamental tenets of the Human Rights Act and the rights of women must be respected.







Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 October 2008 10:22 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

2Right,

On Location 10/10/2008 00:39:11
Women have no right to choose their own Husbands, how does this conform with Human Rights Laws ?

When In Rome
2

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 01:09:04
its sad to see that in the 21st century we still have so many racists and bigoted people in scotland. sharia law has been in europe for last 250 years and due to your ignorance you are blissfully unaware.

when napoleon bonaparte accepted islam as per his advertisement in the le moniteur magazine of 1798 september issue (i think,) he took out a 2 page advertisment as to why he accepted islam for his faith. he then codified the sharia according to imam malik into the code napoleon which is still extant in luxembourg,belgium and france to this day!!!!
for you ignorant muslim bashers, please note that the sharia courts have been fully functioning for over 15 plus years here in england, but if the litigants wish to use the english courts for settling matters its their choice as the sharia courts are non-binding in their judgements.
what the heck is your problem with that???
did you foreigners accept the law of india when you came there and subjugated the people there?
from 1857 to 1890 the british murdered over 30 million indians in cold blood, did you ever apologise and pay reparations like you do to the jews? who are victims in europe and mass killers in palestine , being the satanic people that they are?

did your forefathers ever tell you that when the japanese came to the border with india at kohima and imphal in 2nd world war, the british army starved to death over 5 million indians? and that over 10 million indians died fighting for your freedom?
the muslims are not the bloodthirsty lot as someone stated earlier, if you check your history from scotland to ireland,france,south africa,america,australia it is full of murder and mayhem by the christian european white person. in just the 2nd and 1st world war you killed over 100 million of your own people!!!! did the muslims do that?
compared to you mass murderers, the muslim is a baby in devilishness.if ever the devil had disciples to be proud of its the white european male in history, and his deeds bear w
3

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 01:13:51
witness to this effect.

any racist,bigoted, nationalist christian or jew can arrange a public venue to challenge us muslims to a debate regarding our law/koran anywhere in england on a point by point basis with the t.v,press,and radio in attendance so that humanity and commonsense can prevail!
4

Guga II,

Rockall 10/10/2008 01:41:45
If these people want to be ruled by Sharia law, then I strongly suggest that they move to a country that operates under that system.

Scottish law does, and should continue to, apply to everyone living in Scotland. There is no room for differing legal systems based on particular religions.

Taken to its logical and farcical conclusion, if a group of people living in Scotland are immigrants from Haiti, does that mean they have the right to set up a legal system based on voodoo beliefs?

If the SNP, or any political party, condones such extra-territorial legal jurisdiction for immigrants living in Scotland, they will end up alienating the Scottish people.

The old adage about when you live in Rome, do as the Romans do, applies to the legal system. If I live in Saudi Arabia, I have no alternative but to accept their legal system. They will not make any allowances for me being a foreigner in their country; nor should they. The same should apply for any foreigners, or foreign immigrants living in Scotland. They should accept that they have to comply with Scottish law. If they don't like it, no-one is stopping them from leaving.

Incidentally, why have the Hootsmon not sought the views of the Free Church of Scotland, or the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland? They might have quite different views to that expressed by the failing and unrepresentative Church of Scotland.


5

SCULLION1,

Canada 10/10/2008 01:51:19
SCULLION1
(I was told to do this to thwart trolls.We'll see)
#2-3, Liberal Ontario, Canada did away with Sharia law to protect Muslim women-at their request. Our Liberal government announced that all were subject to the same law of the land. Once again, Canada leads the way.
6

Guga II,

Rockall 10/10/2008 01:58:24
#5 Scullion.

Why don't you report the troll that is using your name? Complain to the Hootsmon moderator. They should be quite capable of blocking the IP of any troll, and fixing it so that nobody can use someone else's name.

They are quick enough at blocking normal English words which they disapprove of, for some reason.
7

Richardinho,

10/10/2008 02:11:29
I'd like to see burglars getting their hands chopped off.
8

DunCraig,

Brisbane 10/10/2008 03:15:44
Humanity, you don't like it in England? Go somewhere that appreciates your point of view & Sharia law. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran & Saudi Arabia sound about right! Also, it's not racism to be anti-Sharia law. It might be construed as bigotry, by a small minority, but to me, where a legal system is in place, in this case Scots Law, and has been for centuries, if someone willingly moves to Scotland, they should be prepared to live by that law and NOT bring the own prejudices & bigotry with them!
9

Anne,

Eaglesham 10/10/2008 06:26:36
Who is going to decide which gourt to use in the event of a legal dispute?

After all, if it involves inheritance, it will certainly disadvantage daughters if it is heard in a Sharia court.

So, if the son goes to the Sharia court and the daughter seeks help from the indiginous legal system. which one will take precedence?
10

Anne,

Eaglesham 10/10/2008 06:29:00
Oh, and just a thought...

Has the Church of Scotland been thinking of reintroducing their own system of justice?

Back to the cutty stool!
11

Angleland Isover,

10/10/2008 07:06:12
C.o.S or any other religeon should have no say at all in the laws of this country. keep your beliefs to yourself.
12

albanman,

10/10/2008 07:14:17
#12 You should practise what you preach. (Hope this comment isn't above your head)
13

carrottop,

10/10/2008 07:58:39
Will everyone be able to attend the stoning of women or just Muslims?
14

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 10/10/2008 07:59:36
#9

Good question. A lack of information about what is being proposed is certainly not helping.

As sm753 points out, Jewish courts (Beth Din) already work in this country. However, I understand they operate within current law regarding third-party arbitration of civil contract disputes. So I take it that the proposals for Sharia courts go further than this.

Areas of concern are adjudication over divorce and inheritance where the rights of children may be involved. This would concern me too, and I believe was the main reason Sharia courts were not accepted in Canada. There is also the understandable concern over women being pressured into accepting Sharia court rulings. However, I'm not sure the present situation is much better where vulnerable women can also be pressured into not going to the police or courts in many situations, and not just in Muslim communities.

Most reports state that the courts would have no powers at all in criminal cases. Yet in yesterday's Scotsman, "domestic violence" was mentioned in a list of issues to be covered. I hope that was a reporting error.

I'd like to know more. If anyone can correct or add to my patchy knowledge, please do.

I'm glad to see there is slightly less spittle in the discussion today (so far).
15

Dave,

Western Isles 10/10/2008 08:11:46
Well the CoS is happy to support it as it would strengthen thier own input into Scots law courts.

Quite a lot of laws in Scotland were based on Christian principles, but that's by the by.
16

eric,

lothian 10/10/2008 08:22:36
His ignorance is staggering.his god is money.
17

Pocket Dictionary,

10/10/2008 08:48:34
Reminds me of the 'Not The Nine o'Clock News' sketch about the Church of England cosying up to Satanists. Mel Smith played the trendy vicar all for it and the positives of welcoming them.

Griff Rhys Jones played the Satanist and when the interviewer asked what he thought about being accepted by the Church of England he said: "Couldn't give a t**s".

Religion should be kept out of the law courts, school and the workplace. It's up to parents to be responsible for teaching their children their own particular faith - not schools.
18

James Donald,

Newbridge 10/10/2008 09:02:34
#2/3 humanity,manchester - You should give yourself up to the Police as you have broken the law (that's UK law not sharia law) with your post.
Perhaps you are a recruiting agent for the BNP?
19

Number 6,

Germany 10/10/2008 09:19:57
The SNP must do all they can to block this. Englandshire, as usual, has given in to politically
correct madness. We on the other hand, have a national identity , and there is no place in it for something as primitive and inhumane as Sharia Law.

We have our own little religious problem, we don't need another. Yet another reason why Scotland MUST get out of this ludicrous "Union".
20

John S,

10/10/2008 09:42:35
UK: "Sharia law now legally binding"
But as well as civil disputes they have also handled six cases of domestic violence.
In all six cases, he said, sharia judges ordered husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders, but issued no further punishment.
All the women subsequently withdrew their complaints to the police, who halted investigations.September 15, 2008
In one recent inheritance dispute in Nuneaton, a Muslim man's estate was spit was between three daughters and two sons with each son receiving twice as much as each daughter - in keeping with sharia law.
In a mainstream court all siblings would have been treated equally.

"Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding.
And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great." (Arberry's version of the Koran, Quran, 4:34)

Note:- Righteous women are therefore obedient ? if not you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them, then what happens next ?
21

Gdgy,

dndy 10/10/2008 10:00:38
I take that this Sharia system will not be compulsory and both parties must agree to accept its outcome???

IF so then it is no different from the concilliation systems.....all anyone has to do is to not agree for their case to be heard under Sharia law....HARDLY a problem.

#23 "In a mainstream court all siblings would have been treated equally" Not if the father had written a will to endorse this outcome...
22

,

10/10/2008 10:12:57
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23

GlenB,

10/10/2008 10:13:37
If I understand the situation it is that although Sharia courts have been operational for a number of years in Britain the decisions of the courts were not binding in British law so someone could take the matter to a British court if they wished until recently.
In England the Sharia courts have been recognised as Arbitration Tribunals and as such the decisions of the these courts are enforcable in the English courts under the Arbitration laws.

If Sharia courts have been working on the basis of voluntary participation by the community why would they need to seek official recognition in law and the additional support of enforcement through Engilsh and Scottish law?
Turning community pressure into legal pressure to overide free will and prevent access to the wider benefit of British law?
24

,

10/10/2008 10:17:24
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25

Mallory,

Edinburgh 10/10/2008 10:58:01
Remarks like these from the Rev Galloway cause many to wonder which planet the Christian Churches are operating on. Sharia law, as interpreted by Wahhabism, is in conflict with many bsic human rights - and not just for women.

Apart from executions by public stoning and beheadings, Saudi school textbooks, used by five million students in the kingdom every year, as well as in many Saudi-funded institutions outside the country, also attack homosexuals and Muslims who do not practice a fundamentalist form of Islam. For example:

"The punishment for homosexuality is death. The companions of the Prophet were unanimous on killing although they differed ... in the manner of killing. Some companions ... stated that a homosexual is to be burned with fire ... he should be stoned or thrown from a high place."

26

hertscot,

10/10/2008 11:04:28
CoS supports Sharia,

So, the respective imaginary friends are now playing together.

Deep Joy.
27

Selgovae,

Scottish Borders 10/10/2008 11:34:32
#24 "Not if the father had written a will to endorse this outcome..."

Under Scottish Law at least, children and spouses retain a claim on a dead parent's estate, no matter what a will says. While I think it would still allow a parent to leave twice as much to a son as a daughter, what would happen if Sharia courts allowed a child to be completely disinherited?
28

Brodric,

10/10/2008 11:39:05
Same question as yesterday - who is paying for this? Will these "courts" receive any public funding?
29

GlenB,

10/10/2008 11:40:28
#29 The rev does not speak for "Christian Churches" only his own view.

Most Christians and Church denominations would be appalled at this point of view.

One has only to do a little searching of the internet to find Christian sites that highlight the dangers of Sharia and the plight of Christians living in Islamic countries.
30

Brodric,

10/10/2008 11:44:18
No 4 GugaII - agree entirely with you.

No 2 Humanity - by your reference to the British in India (a completely different era from now) - are you suggesting that we Brits should now be subjugated by Muslim immigrants to Muslim ideas.

Its hardly the same situation - is it. That empire building happened in the past doesn't make it right, but this cannot be compared to the inward movement of disparate immigrants to the UK.

Please also take a closer look at the historical facts regarding who died, how many died and what for.
31

Brodric,

10/10/2008 11:56:10
The Church of Scotland has finally lost its marbles.

I am all for ecumenism - but this is pure madness.

Drawing parallels between Sharia and Beth Din is like comparing chalk and cheese.

The Jewish tradition is not concerned with prosetylising. It is a religion that you are born into and the connection is a familial one. That there are some converts, usually through marriage, is completely irrelevant. The Jews consider themselves to be God's chosen people, chosen in the midst of OTHER non-Jews. There is no goal to convert the world to Judaism or to convert the unbeliever.

Islam, on the other hand, is a prosetylising religion. The Qu'ran urges believers to convert non-believers and the goal is to convert the whole world to Islam.

Beth Din is a neutral moderating body to assist willing parties to resolve issues between them without resort to the courts. Notwithstanding the fact that they have open access to the courts without any coercion or rancour; without any potentially "loaded" situation regarding the freedom of any of the parties.

Compare that with Sharia. Despite the Muslim cries about women having rights, which are clearly defined in the Qu'ran, the interpretation of these, and common religious and political practises in many Muslim countries means that their are inherent dangers in the coercion of, as a prime example, women to accept less than their due, or not to have the freedom to access social or legal help.

The Jewish tradition doesn't uphold the idea of lying to permit opportunities to further their cause. Interpretation of the Qu'ran allows this - and this has been clearly demonstrated in the way that both some mosques, religious community centres and terrorists have been operating in this country.

STOP IT NOW OR WE WILL ALL LIVE TO REGRET IT.
32

Allan(handofgod137),

10/10/2008 12:12:20
No problem with this as long as all parties agree to recognise that the Aesir are the only true gods, and that as part of my religious observances I'll be required to sacrifice their false priests to the Allfather.
33

hertscot,

10/10/2008 12:24:25
#36 Allan(handofgod137),

So sorry, but you have it all wrong!

WE beleive that Titania is the only true Goddess, and although she does not condone death of the priests of other religions, we are required to remove the tongues of the false preachers, and, burn down the temples, to prevent the spreading of their lies to the unenlightened.

We also need the government to allow us to sacrifice gnomes in public squares, dance naked round twigs at midday and be allowed time off for prayers every 15 minutes as directed by the book.

If they allow sharia law, we will demand this, if we do not get it acts of social terror, such as planting flowers and kissing people for no reason will breakout all over the country.
34

Calum Crubag,

10/10/2008 12:40:33
Agree with Humanity on one point - English/Brits didn't accept local cultures, languages and customs when they rampaged across the world building an 'Empire'. Brits abroad still have problems learning the local tongue and abiding by local laws. How many fat drunk Union Jack shorted neds have we seen causing trouble abroad?

But, the Church of Scotland and the Muslims are both as bad as each other with their dark-age superstitious mumbo-jumbo. Get rid off ALL religion.
35

Calum Crubag,

10/10/2008 12:43:20
#35 - Judaism is another load of cac. Funny how all 3 of these ridicuous creeds share the same root. As to 'chosen people' - funny how the Jews AND the Palestinian Muslim are BOTH Semitic peoples. The same people, divided by poisonous and illogical belief systems.
36

,

10/10/2008 12:57:12
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37

Brodric,

10/10/2008 13:09:58
39 Calum - hello, Jesus was a Jew and Christianity was a sect of a kind of Judaism. So what are you saying?
38

Eric D,

Alba 10/10/2008 13:29:02
There’s an old Arab proverb that states: "Once the camel’s head is inside the tent, the whole body is certain to follow."
39

Brodric,

10/10/2008 13:46:54
No 42 - I think half the camel has already entered.

An old saying from Arabia is: A foreigner should be well-behaved.

Maybe immigrants should remember that whilst they are pushing themselves into the tent.
40

Stephen_Gash,

Carlisle England 10/10/2008 13:47:00
Sharia is not merely a legal system, it is the unalterable and unassailable word of Allah, according to Muslims.

If sharia finance is so wonderful, why hasn't Mecca been the financial capital of the world? If sharia is so wonderful why has the Islamic world stagnated for over a thousand years?

We will not be dragged back to the stoning age. No sharia here! SIOE.
41

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 13:51:48
good to see some feedback of usual kind and to hear of go back to your country etc,etc.
the figures of indian dead were released by british historians in regard to campaign against japanese army,indian historians validated number of dead indians from 1857 to 1870 3 months ago. my grandfather was also in the british army before some one derides me.
my country is england and i have and will protect it as a citizen in all wakes of life, most of my family are in the services and civil establishment so i have no problem living here and observing the laws of the land like you all.
what i do find reprehensible is why our country should be at loggerheads with 1.5 billion muslims for the sake of 4 million international law breakers,u.n resolution , killers and murderers of innocents,who are a real threat to mankind with their nuclear weapons and infest our government in all departments for the interests of a foreign country not englands!

in america these people have been handing out over 30 million d.v.d,s to scare the local population against islam by misrepresenting its laws, beliefs etc.

these are the same people who took refuge with the muslims under the inquisition when you christians were killing them wholesale plus the muslims in spain,one of your favourite pastimes. we safe guarded them for over 1200 centuries in our countrys and gave them security and yet today these zionist jews proclaim to one and all that somehow we are the enemy, when like you all we just seek a better life by learning,sharing,enjoying,giving and taking .

the muslims are not a threat to england or anyone else!

someone is making this demonization happen and thats who we must protest against, any muslim who breaks the law of the land must be subjected to that law as a criminal just like any jew,or christian,athiest etc.

lastly, please see johan harri,s article about frances secret war in africa published in independent online edition on the 5th october2007 where he has stated cl
42

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 13:59:51
clearly how the french forces have murdered over 5 million africans in last few years because they wanted schools,clinics,roads and education from their government who are imposed dictators from those who profess democracy for all and freedom! what a farce!

lets be humans to each other first, that is the advice to all muslims from the prophet mohammed when he made it clear that IF YOU HAVE NO HUMANITY IN YOU,YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US,

over 1 million muslims are dead on a war based on lies, the zionist jew madeleine albright stated it was ok to kill 500,000 muslims children to further their obnoxious policys!
is this what we in england stand for???

there are good.jews and muslims here plus christians,and others lets join together to get rid of all troublemakers in our midst for peace and tranquility to reign!

43

Brodric,

10/10/2008 14:04:46
Found another Arabic saying

"Kiss the dog on his mouth until you get what you need out of him".

In other words, be nice to those you don't like if you have a business to finish with them.

Be nice to us until you get all that you want. mmmm
44

Stephen_Gash,

Carlisle England 10/10/2008 14:05:56
humanity is spouting nonsense. Muslims are a threat to England, Scotland and the rest of the non-muslim world. Events of islamist murders in Thailand and the Philippines go unreported. Our media concern themselves with the "plight" of the palestinians on a daily basis and suppress news of what is happening across the world where muslims have made themselves the enemy of whomever they live among. If you want to see what is going on visit thereligionofpeace.com then ask why these things go unreported.
There is a move to making sharia law our law and it is being perpetrated by our own leaders.
Remember, once established, sharia is immovable because it is the unchangeable word of a deity. That our male-dominated clergy support it comes as no surprise. Putting the genie of feminism back in its bottle is the aim of our politicians, clergy, judiciary, media and business.
45

Brodric,

10/10/2008 14:06:21
45 - 46 humanity.

You have real problems mate.
46

Stephen_Gash,

Carlisle England 10/10/2008 14:23:42
Brodric #47 That is the Islamic philosophy as written in the Koran. In other words make peace until you are strong enough to resume the war. Hezbollah (the party of Allah) practice this philosophy as anybody with at least half a working brain can see. Hezbollah and Hamas are aslo overtly nazi parties. Do an internet image search for hamas+nazi+salute to see this.
EU citizens may be arrested for denying the holocaust (EU arrest warrant makes this a certainty now) but EU citizens fund Hamas and Hezbollah through EU subsidies. Our real enemies are our own leaders.
47

Brodric,

10/10/2008 15:09:04
50 - Stephen_Gash - unfortunately seems like there is not much we can do about it. If we complain, we are labelled intolerant and racist - but when it is intolerance of our native culture, we just lie back and take it.

Another saying from Arabia. When the wolf comes for the sheep, the dog deficates.
48

,

10/10/2008 15:15:34
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49

John S,

10/10/2008 15:18:35
UK: Are women submitting to sharia courts voluntarily?
The UK's logic seems to be that, since both parties are willing to abide by the decision of a third part, in this case, the sharia court, and all parties concerned are doing so willingly, then it's legal. But, as this report points out, what of those veiled Muslim women in Britain who know no English, don't know their rights as citizens of Britain, and simply do what their men -- fathers, husbands, brothers -- tell them to do, that is, let a sharia court decide? Are they truly "free" in the matter?

You'll see that Muslim "communities" in the West are primarily concerned with hiding internal abuse from the kaffir.
Now think about how this information might affect a woman involved in a dispute that her husband wishes to take to a sharia "court." First, her husband is completely entitled to beat her if she resists his command -- that's "disobedience," and Allah instructs violent discipline in such a case. Second, her community will pressure her to comply, in order to hide the "shame" of the dispute from the kaffir.
The result is institutional, systematized coercion. It is part of the Muslim view of women as silent, obedient, easily-disposable sexual chattel, and it is basic and ineradicable as long as Islam exists.September 28, 2008
http://tinyurl.com/3t74ce
50

Resolutions,

10/10/2008 15:29:34
#45
"my country is england and i have and will protect it as a citizen in all wakes of life, most of my family are in the services and civil establishment so i have no problem living here and observing the laws of the land like you all."

Here Mate - we are talking about Scottish Law which is NOT English.
And
"someone is making this demonization happen and thats who we must protest against, any muslim who breaks the law of the land must be subjected to that law as a criminal just like any jew,or christian,athiest etc."

Try taking a good look at what you are posting and you may see the answer. You are demonising yourselves.

May I ask where your figures of casualties are coming from? It is strange that they do not appear to be corralated elswhere. Most proper statistics can and are able to do this if they are to have any credibility at all.
Take a good look at your own humanity? What have you done for the country where you now live?
Have you condemned those TODAY who seek to kill civilians for no other reason than HATE?
Learn tolerance!
51

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 15:33:37
brodric and stephen gash sound like zionist jews hiding behind a christian facade creating problems and inter community disharmony.

where the heck does hamas and hizbullah come into the picture in england? these are movements committed to fighting zionist jewish terrorism and are also political partys chosen by their people in their respectives lands, so why should we as british citizens care who they choose to represent them under democratic values!

what we as british people should care about is the israeli jewish terrorism being perpetrated everyday against innocent palestinians by planes,helicopters,snipers,tanks,death squads, etc,etc ,etc. is this not against human rights and international law which you spout about all day and break when it suits you?
even ex president carter has witnessed these crimes against humanity and has spoken out against them. why is there one law for all of humanity and one for these misfits of the human race?

islam has no need lie mr brodric, as i suggested before i am open to anyone of you who reads this blog to invite us to a venue where the t.v, radio,and newspapers are present to carry the story of a point by point discussion to who really is a threat to england and mankind, and its certainly not muslims!!

perhaps you can answer as to why a muslim criminal is supposedly representing islam and the whole community is on trial?

why can he not be a just a criminal subject to thelaw like everyone else?

why is no other communitys criminals faith on trial?

brodric also keeps saying words from arabia and other places, please this is known as chutzpah from the zionist jewish tradition,worlds foremost liars ,andyou are not far behind when every race in the world called youWHITE MAN TALK WITH FORKED TONGUE.
52

Corsair,

10/10/2008 15:47:56
"Humanity", and others of that ilk: what was the original subject again?

Wake up, Scotland: has the Trojan Horse infiltrated the Church of Scotland as well?!!!
53

Scythia,

Glasgow 10/10/2008 15:51:08
The quick shuffle of the burka on our streets exposes the dark side of Islam, no sharia court will address.
54

Selgovae,

10/10/2008 15:52:36
#45, #46

You appeal for humanity, and then pour your vile hatred on Madeleine Albright. You should learn more about her. As far as I know, she is the only US or UK politician of any standing to have acknowledged the UK's and USA's roles in the overthrow of Iran's Mossadegh and its consequences for the region. As US Secretary of State, she took the side of Kosovo's Muslims against Serbia.

Concerning her quote that the deaths of half a million children were "worth it", she later said, 'As soon as I had spoken, I wished for the power to freeze time and take back those words. My reply had been a terrible mistake, hasty, clumsy, and wrong' A rare politician that admits her mistakes.

I wish I had half her humanity.
55

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 16:02:10
rsolutions what makes you think we are not against any muslim terrorism? we are totally against it, just like we are against anyone who is dressing up like a muslim and carrying out false flag attacks in the name of islam!

i hope you are aware that there is plenty of evidence on the web to suggest that the attacks in london by 7/7 bombers was a false flag attack, why will the government not allow a public enquiry into the attack?
is it because as one policeman claimed that he saw the metal of the train bent inwards into the carriage after the explosion?

was this so called muslim bomber hanging onto the train underneath the carriage?

why was the israeli companys security cameras not functional 24 hours before this evil act on the bus,s and trains?

the new zealand post carried a story that 3 people were shot dead near canary wharf on the day of the bombings which was quickly deleted, who were these people shot?

i disbelieve most official stories as they are not true,please read blogs like whatreallyhappened.com, prisonplanet.com,rense.com,angirfan.com , blacklisted news.com to get an alternative view which seems closer to the truth by independent journalists.

and who isolate the mischief makers in the world and in our country called great britain!

99.9% of all muslims are law abiding citizens of this land which we have made home, and we shall protect it in every way as i have stated before.
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10/10/2008 16:07:19
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Anthony,

Glasgow 10/10/2008 17:55:32
Mr Galloway doesn't seem to understand the law - or very much come to that. To say this would not create a parallel system is a display of his own ignorance. Scottish courts would need to respect the findings of sharia law courts in certain areas of the law. How can that be anything other than the introduction of an alien system into the Scottish legal system?

Church leaders need to get out more, see the real world, hold down a proper job for a bit, and see the way the dynamics of this country are being altered against the will of the vast majority. Then we'll listen to what they have to say.

I'm rather fond of Jesus - but some of his self-appointed staff leave a bit to be desired. Maybe when he's got a bit of time off championing islam, Mr Galloway can consider promoting Christian ideals? I know it's a radical thing to suggest, which will be quite a novel idea to the C of S.
58

humanity,

manchester 10/10/2008 19:14:31
sm53 what a load of poppycock, i am no nazi, but an observer you call witnesss to history.

exactly how have any other european race besides the germans not committed nazi acts in history?

you can see genocide and nazi behaviour orchestrated on the palestinians in gaza today by these so called victims of hitler, and yet the world fought against this in 2nd world war and today you all condone it?

if i as a muslim speak against it, you become riled and angry ,and yet mr blairs the war criminal along with mr bush, his sister in law broke the jewish nazi,s blockade last month and you have nothing to say on that??

if you feel so happy for the nazi jewish behaviour against innocents in gaza and the west bank, perhaps you can tell us all on this blog as to why did the world jewish congress in 1933 declare war on hitler?

why do palestinian muslim woman who you claim to champion their human rights have to have babies at israeli check points without recourse to hospitals in their own land?

why can palestinian muslim woman not attend any forums regarding the israeli brutes behaviour by the occupation of their land and subsequent human rights violations?

seymour hersh a jewish journalist has published a paper regarding the atrocities being committed by western forces in iraq against little children including rapes,murder,sodomy, etc , etc, why do you law loving people accept this against innocent children?

sm53, take your head out of your posterior and see the daylight and smell something else besides whats in you to see an evident wrong being committed which need rectification by international law, which seems not to work when its in muslim interests.
59

Brodric,

10/10/2008 20:49:18
Shalom Humanity me hearty. What do you know about me or Mr Gash? Nothing at all. But I am not Jewish.

And I had the greatest admiration for Arafat - having campaigned endlessly for the State of Israel not to perpetrate terrorist and unlawful acts on the Palestinians. And for the UN to grant Palestine a state. There are many injustices in the world, and I campaigned for this not because one is Jewish and one is Muslim, but because it is right to fight all kinds of injustice.

So there!!!

I won't respond to all your points because that would be impossible.

The fact is that Islam as a religion is quite DIFFERENT from its sister religions, Judaism and Christianity - Islam doesn't want to co-exist, its aim is to CONVERT.

You said "brodric also keeps saying words from arabia and other places..." I think I have the right from the point of view of knowledge. Having studied religion, philosophy and theology for almost nine years, four of which included the Qu'ran, gives me that authority.
60

zeno,

www.thinkhumanism.com 10/10/2008 21:41:29
Our justice system is based on equality before the law: justice must be blind to those before it (hence the symbolism of the blindfolded lady on the Old Bailey). Sharia does not treat those before it with that equality, so whether or not it replaces any existing British justice, it cannot be tolerated.

Also, many brought before a Sharia court (regardless of the 'offence') will not be aware of their full rights and may not even know they might have another choice.

Say no to Sharia in any form.
61

Media 1,

cape town 10/10/2008 22:28:46
I believe that people should be free to express themselves, but you need equality at all times...

Therefore, would British law and customs be accepted in the Muslim world?

If the answer is no, then muslim law cannot be accepted in Britian - if you want Sharia law go and live in the countries whose economies and infrastructures are so completey primitive and poverty stricken due to centuries of practices such as Sharia law.
62

oder,

Scotland 10/10/2008 23:36:32
63 humanity,manchester 10

Palestinians became refugees mainly at the urging of and because of the attack of the five Arab states on Israel immediately it came into existence.

There is little evidence that Palestinians have been helped by other Islamic countries towards the creation of a Palestinian state, but much to show that Palestinians as "refugees" are invaluable to the world-wide Islamic cause of rousing the world against Israel and the Jews.

you seem to forget that the prophet was a dab hand at genocide himself, (especially against Jews and against every non Muslim) you are not victims here! as the Saudi`s say if your not happy here (Saudi) leave! good Muslim advice for a Christian so take good Muslim advice and leave! this God foresakin country.

you said
if i as a Muslim speak against it, you become riled and angry ,and yet mr blairs the war criminal along with mr bush, his sister in law broke the jewish nazi,s blockade last month and you have nothing to say on that??

blockade? what blockade? since when does Blair or anyone else require approval/permission to go to Israel and from whom? as for you speaking out against it enjoy! this very British attribute! as you are aware not privileged that most of your Muslim brethren in Islamic countries can participate in, and why should any non Muslim who carries no hate`s be annoyed about Blair going there? whether you agree or not one has to be convicted of a crime before you can label him criminal.

You may think he is but that doesn't make it so! another strange british quality think what you like! no doudt you are having a wonderful time here!

as for Peace in Palestine/Israel when you all put your Hate aside, when you all have enough of killing one another then maybe you might make it. ( incase you are wondering No! I am not Jewish)

63

MichScot,

11/10/2008 14:52:55
How stupid is that!

Handing over Christian churches to be wiped out by force or dhimmitude in the future by this acceptance and capitulation. It will happen, even though they are being tolerant. This tolerance will not be reciprocated, as history repeatedly affirms.

These Bible scholars should read the part about being blinded by ignorance and unbelief,and their own "wisdom", which is the case here.
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MichScot,

11/10/2008 15:00:53
#63

You forget that MOST westerners are NOT Christians--even many who claim they are do not fit God's idea of Christian-- and even Christians do not claim to be holy or perfect, just forgiven.

We do not live in a theocracy.
We also have free choice , both in our countries and by the decree of the eternal God,about whether or not we choose to believe. God does not want robots or puppets to be His followers; He wants those who wish to follow Him to be His.

After all, you are where your heart is, and your body does not have to emulate the thoughts in your heart.

And we, as Christians, are sons and heirs (this means men and women equally) of God, and not mere slaves.
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11/10/2008 17:47:42
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11/10/2008 17:54:31
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11/10/2008 18:01:09
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oder,

Scotland 11/10/2008 21:17:30
71 Brage,Scotland

all acts of terror are wrong regardless of who perpetuates it, as for the King David hotel more Jews were killed, the Prophet Muhammad ordered that all of the Jewish settlements in the Arabian peninsula were to cleansed and that was precisely what the Muslims did and every where else they could find them a thousand years before the State of Israel existed
you are wrong to suggest that terrorism appeared with the creation of the Jewish state, in the days when Muhammad made his living by robbing and terrorising pilgrims and caravans on the way to Mecca he said "Behold I am made Victorious with Terror" you may not understand it as terror but he certainly did! Killing worked for Muhammad to further his own goals and his particular brand of religion, suggest Brage you take some time out from you anti Jewish stance and get a copy of the Koran makes interesting reading! the act of Terror is what the Prophet used as his policy to bang the Arab tribes into line! and it worked, historical fact! it could be argued the the terrorism was introduced to the whole of the Middle East and Arabia by the Prophet himself.

your post at 73 isn't quite correct either the Queen is head of the church in England, not Scotland.
69

ksauhgaksu,

Italy 15/07/2009 03:10:10
(I apologize for the french language.)
« Sans doute par l'effet de mon vieux sang normand, depuis la guerre d'Orient, je suis indigné contre l'Angleterre, indigné à en devenir Prussien ! Car enfin, que veut-elle ? Qui l'attaque ? Cette prétention de défendre l'Islamisme (qui est en soi une monstruosité) m'exaspère. Je demande, au nom de l'humanité, à ce qu'on broie la Pierre-Noire, pour en jeter les cendres au vent, à ce qu'on détruise La Mecque, et que l'on souille la tombe de Mahomet. Ce serait le moyen de démoraliser le Fanatisme. »
(Gustave Flaubert, lettre [n°1728] à madame Roger des Genettes, vendredi 1er mars 1878, dans les “Œuvres complètes de Gustave Flaubert”, Correspondance, huitième série [1877-1880], Louis Conard libraire-éditeur, Paris, 1930, page 112.)

 

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