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Obama confronts race issue head-on amid fury over preacher's sermons

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Published Date: 19 March 2008
BARACK Obama yesterday made the most racially pointed speech yet of his presidential campaign, bluntly addressing anger between blacks and whites.
The Democratic hopeful confronted America's legacy of racial division head-on as he tackled black grievance, white resentment and the uproar caused by incendiary statements by his long-standing preacher.

Drawing on his half-black, half-white roots
, the would-be Democratic candidate expressed understanding of the passions on both sides in what he called "a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years".

"But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races," he said at the National Constitution Centre in Philadelphia, near where the Declaration of Independence was adopted.

Mr Obama covered divisions from slavery to the OJ Simpson trial to the recovery efforts after Hurricane Katrina.

He also recognised his race has been an issue in a campaign that had taken a "particularly divisive turn" as video of his pastor spread around the internet and on television.

Mr Obama said the sermons delivered by the Rev Jeremiah Wright "rightly offend white and black alike." The sermons suggest the country brought the 11 September terrorist attacks on itself and say blacks continue to be mistreated by whites.

While Mr Obama rejected what Mr Wright said, he also embraced the man who inspired his Christian faith, officiated at his wedding, baptised his daughters and has been his spiritual guide for nearly 20 years.

"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community," Mr Obama said, speaking in front of eight US flags.

"I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men … and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe."

He said he came to Rev Wright's church because he was inspired by his message of hope and his inspiration to rebuild the black community.

Mr Obama said Rev Wright's comments had sparked a discussion that reflected complexities of race in the US that its people had never really resolved.

"We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country," he said. "But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow."

Mr Obama said anger over those injustices often found voice in black churches on Sunday mornings. "The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Rev Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning," he said.

Mr Obama argued that the anger often distracted from solving real problems and bringing change. But he said it also existed in parts of the white community that felt blacks were often given an unfair advantage through affirmative action programmes.

"If we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American," Mr Obama said, drawing a rare burst of applause in a sombre address.

He said one task of his campaign to be the first black president was "to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America."

FAMILY TREE

HIS quest to be the first black president is only half the life story of Barack Obama. The senator is the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas – a fact he addressed when he visited the state on a recent campaign visit.

His maternal grandfather, Stanley Dunham, grew up in El Dorado, Kansas, and married his high school sweetheart, Madelyn. He served in the Second World War and was educated under the GI Bill, while his wife stayed in the state capital, Wichita, with their baby – Obama's mother, Ann. The family moved to Hawaii, where Ann met Senator Obama's father, Barack Hussein Obama snr, a graduate student. He left the family when Obama was two years old and returned to East Africa.





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1

,

19/03/2008 00:21:49
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poststalker,

19/03/2008 00:35:22
I wish Obama all the very best in this increasingly nasty campaign. He's got a long road ahead if him if he wants all Americans to engage dialogue - but it will be one great step if he can manage it even part ways.
3

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 00:36:24
Secretary of State Colin Powell remains silent; he grew up in poorer conditions than Obama in Hawaii. Powell is a dignified and respected statesman- we can assume his church is not like Obama's America-hating Trinity.

Powell is the man who should be the president of this country, that he's black is irrelevant.

IMO Obama, his wife and his paster have set this country back, shockingly, and suddenly.
4

britsout,

camelon 19/03/2008 00:37:55
as a teenage boy ,i witnessed the ugly sight of one man pouring tomato ketchup over another mans head to the accompaniment of general hooting and cruel hilarity and all because of a desire to share some space at a lunch counter . the barbarity of voter registration , the snarling dogs . the snarling rednecks. the bussing . M L K . all this through a tiny glass bubble in grainy black and white . it alerted me at a very young age to the yawning discnnect between america as it likes to see its self and the amerikkka of its reality . nothing about it can fool this injun. i suport pastor wright he tells it like it is
5

Silence of the Yams,

19/03/2008 00:40:27
#2. Obama made his own bed. Noboby forced him to give $20,000 to Wright's Church or make him an advisor in the full knowledge of his twisted views on among others - 9/11, AIDS, white people and America. Obama is now a cautionary tale and a disgrace to the whole democratic party.
6

,

19/03/2008 00:52:44
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Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 01:15:48
@6
You're confused. I'm the fanatic libertarian.
In the US we still have the freedom to preach hate America and we also have the freedom to say we don't like it. We also have freedom of religion with no religious test to be president. That is not true of the UK

It's Islamics who restrict free speech and thoughts.
A recent comment by the OIC chairman:
"There can be no freedom without limits."


8

,

19/03/2008 01:23:54
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Read the book,

Illinois 19/03/2008 01:29:42

Dont listen to the lie

chapter 14 page 293 he talks about setting in church and listning to write and also talks about how he agreed with the church creed page 284, I think he is still not being honest. I have the book and read it myself.
10

Read the book,

Illinois 19/03/2008 01:31:33
I have the creed from the church site they have since pulled it , its hate speech
11

Read the book,

Illinois 19/03/2008 01:35:04
Real quick the day before this all came I logged onto the churches website and found these.. today if you log on there good luck finding them becuase they have been removed... Now I am sorry but these are the churches values, the churches views the whole time, and he belonged to it the entire time... OBAMA I DON'T BELIEVE YOU!!!

--------
http://www. tucc. org/home. htm
Obamas "Trinity United Church of Christ Black Values"

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981.

Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System. His dedication to the pursuit of excellence, despite systematic denials, has inspired the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ.
Prayerfully, we have called upon the wisdom of all past generations of suffering Blacks for guidance in fashioning an instrument of Black self-determination, the Black Value System. Beginning in 1982, an annual Black Value System – Educational Scholarship in the name of Dr. Byrd was instituted. The first recipient of the Dr. Manford Byrd Award, which is given annually to the man or woman who best exemplifies the Black Value System, was our brother, Dr. Manford Byrd. [b]These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:[/b]


Commitment to God. "The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.




Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.


Commitment to the Black Family.



The Black family circle must generate
12

,

19/03/2008 01:35:20
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Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:37:07
Now replace Blck with White and that is what we call hate, something we have been tring to stamp out not bring to our churches.
14

,

19/03/2008 01:37:10
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,

19/03/2008 01:39:47
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Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:40:05

http://www. tucc. org/home. htm
Obamas "Trinity United Church of Christ Black Values"

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System, written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee, chaired by the late Vallmer Jordan in 1981.

Dr. Manford Byrd, our brother in Christ, withstood the ravage of being denied his earned ascension to the number one position in the Chicago School System. His dedication to the pursuit of excellence, despite systematic denials, has inspired the congregation of Trinity United Church of Christ.
Prayerfully, we have called upon the wisdom of all past generations of suffering Blacks for guidance in fashioning an instrument of Black self-determination, the Black Value System. Beginning in 1982, an annual Black Value System – Educational Scholarship in the name of Dr. Byrd was instituted. The first recipient of the Dr. Manford Byrd Award, which is given annually to the man or woman who best exemplifies the Black Value System, was our brother, Dr. Manford Byrd. [b]These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They consist of the following concepts:[/b]

Commitment to God. "The God of our weary years" will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.

Commitment to the Black Family.

The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society.

Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.

Dedication to the Purs
17

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:40:31
some of it keeps dropping
18

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:40:57
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community.

We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor.

Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. "It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago." Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area.

We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce.

Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others.

Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress and a model for Black Youth.

Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness." Classic methodology .. of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the "talented tenth" of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:

Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.

[b]Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.[/b]

Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, w
19

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:41:47
Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, [b]hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of "we" and "they" instead of "us."[/b]

So, while it is permissible to chase "middleclassness" with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black "middleclassness." If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our "voluntary" contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright:

the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.

Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions.

Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.

Personal Commitment to Embracement of the Black Value System.

To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards freedom.

thats it the whole Creed Obama staes in his book he agrees with the church creed.
20

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:43:18
Now look at his book chapter 14 page 293 he talks about setting in church and listning to write and also talks about how he agreed with the church creed page 284, I think he is still not being honest. I have the book and read it myself.

Then listen to his wife, and listen to the church videos, the think for 20 years he took his family here and supported this man.
21

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:43:59
now argue that point.
22

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:45:08
sad for Illinois
23

Read the book,

19/03/2008 01:46:33
all I ask is please read the books, read the creed and watch the videos. and think 20 years
24

,

19/03/2008 01:47:22
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Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 01:55:50
"7 Carolyn 1, I know who you are. You are Lynne's pal - that supports the Israeli state

How's that for free speech?"

Perfect.
MG-AFK-24
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,

19/03/2008 01:57:25
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Tom in Belmont,

Belmont 19/03/2008 02:01:08
As we say in the States: "It ain't gonna play in Peoria".
Whatever justification any Leftist finds in the Rev. Nuthouse's rant, Obama can win neither the nomination nor the general election if he appears to favor this man's views. If he wants to win, he has no choice but to break openly and cleanly with Wright.
28

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 19/03/2008 03:24:37
If Obama would pick Ron Paul as his running mate perhaps the race issue would go away.
29

B.M.,

19/03/2008 03:31:24
Obama, the silver-tongued deceiver.
30

,

19/03/2008 04:12:29
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,

19/03/2008 05:54:48
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,

19/03/2008 05:55:59
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Axel Heidsmann,

19/03/2008 06:29:35
As Uncle Bill says: 'There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries.'

A flood-tide is sweeping America; Americans want change; and they want an innovation manager that they can believe in. Obama is that man.
34

CombatVet68,

19/03/2008 06:52:33
In times past, those of african-american heritage have been oppressed and were pressed into servitude to wealthy land owners. Unspeakable wrongs were perpetrated against them by those who often times claimed to be "Christian" men and women, yet in truth, they were not. The persecution of the negro race in this country is a shameful period in our history which I pray will never be repeated.

Jesus taught us that the two most important commandments is that: ".. thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart, strength, mind, and soul, and to love thy brother as thy self". "Upon these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Yet, they alone were not the only ones who were persecuted, for we have learned from history that the native american Indian, the Chinese, and the Hispanic people have also been grossly maltreated by the Governments of this nation. The primary motivations for such bigotry was greed and arrogance!

A "true Christian" does not enslave his brother, nor does he preach a gospel of hate. A "true Christian" does not endorse the homosexual lifestyle, nor does he or she support the shedding of innocent blood (abortions of the human fetus). A "true Christian" does not vote to elect those political representatives who endorse or support such acts of depravity! Yet, many who profess to be "Christians" are doing just that!

Can a "true Christian" condemn these things without feeling hatred for those who engage in these unholy practices? The answer is yes. For a "true follower of Christ" loves his brother, and in condemning the sin, perhaps the guilty may repent and be saved from eternal condemnation through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Is it an act of hate to reproach your child for wrongs they may commit, for in the reproach, you guide the child to do that which is good and acceptable in the sight of God and man.

Yet we live in a time where we now call evil good and good evil. In our present society, it is evil to reproa
35

,

19/03/2008 06:54:39
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CombatVet68,

19/03/2008 07:00:12
Yet we live in a time where we now call evil good and good evil. In our present society, it is evil to reproach others who corrupt the natural law of God and it is good that we teach our children tolerance to accept an alternate lifestyle, to the point of teaching this doctrine in our schools.

In our society, it is good that we remove all reference of God from our public schools. We just kicked Him out altogether! Yet we allow the doctrines of devils to be taught to our children, and this is also good. Then when our children are gunned down in their classes, we ask how God could allow this to happen...dah! It is written; "The ways of man seemeth right, yet it leadeth to destruction."

It is also written: "In the last days there shall be a great falling away." You are witnesses to this event. "In the last days, mans knowledge shall be greatly increased." We have seen mans knowledge increase a thousand fold in the past 75 years. At the turn of the last century, mans chief means of transportation was the horse drawn carriage and the steam engine driven locomotive.

We are seeing events unfold now that were predicted in the Word of God over 2000 years ago. Even the Sciences are confirming many of the events recorded in the Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible, yet we still teach our children the principle theory of Darwinism (evolution). How ignorant and blind can mankind be in his arrogance and pride?

In the name of my Holy Lord Jesus Christ, I rebuke any man or woman who uses the doctrine of my Lord Jesus Christ to preach racial bigotry from the pulpit. For of such, they have religion, but they do not have the Spirit of my Lord abiding within them, for the truth is not in them.
37

CombatVet68,

19/03/2008 07:11:18
#36 Jacobite

I take issue with you on your claim with regards to Clinton. You are indeed spiritually blind if you beleive what you wrote. His immorality spoke volumns to our children, not to mention the fact that he not only lied to all of us and then perjured himself in a court of law to cover his own sins. Perhaps you are speaking from the standpoint that he increased the size of your pocket book? Trading morality for financial gain, now thats something that Satan loves.
38

,

19/03/2008 07:55:13
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Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 07:59:39
The race thing will never go away! How can it?
When I meet people I judge them on the way they come across. If they are polite, courteous and good conversationalists, I will proabably want to meet them again regardless of the colour of their skin. The defining line, is not their colour, but whether we get on or not.
Therefore, whether you are white or black is irrelivant in the true context of life. The problem we have though, is that whilst black and white people are as capable as eachother at success and failure, it is undeniable that white societies are far more advanced and far more mature than black societies, and that has been the case since before the ships arrived in Africa.
How then, do we close the gap between black and white SOCIETIES?
I dont think you can! I think that white people hold the power because the richest and most powerful countries in the world are white. Whites are responsible for almost every singe item you use in everyday life from a toothbrush to a aeroplane, so how do you level that playing field?
But regardless of what Obama says, I think America has proved they are not that reacially divided, because if they were, Obama would never have obtained the votes he has obtained thus far.
American people can be proud of themselves, because there is NO WAY, a white leader would be accepted in Ghana, Zimbabwe, Haiti, South Africa, Uganda, Zambia etc. So hats off America, well done on your vision.
40

,

19/03/2008 08:03:00
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Biker,

Ayr 19/03/2008 09:34:21
Media1. You just insulted a whole creed of people with your comment about white society being more advanced than black. I have often read your comments with some scepticism but this one takes the biscuit. To condem a race to slavery and then limit their education is what makes them less advanced. South Africa, Zimbabwe, and all the rest of the African states bear wittness to this.
America is no different. Slavery and possesion of lives for cheap labour was the main reason for the slowdown of their advance. I dare you to suggest that Obama, Malcom X, and many other Black people, including many from your country are less socialy advanced than yourself.
Worth remembering Media, that it has taken 300years to get a black man or indeed a woman anywhere near the White House, and given that Black rule(such as it is)is only a couple of decades old, it may be some time before they trust a white man again.
42

Sgurr,

19/03/2008 09:52:09
RIP Obama's campaign. I think that that sunflower is wilting. I don't know if it is because he is black, or if there is just not much to say about him (hes not that experienced), but all the press about him seems to be very negative right now.
It is fair to guess that the anti-Obama group has been saving this negative press up for the finale.
43

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 09:59:54
Biker #43 Ayr

Read the post again, you only saw what you wanted to see. Read what I said!

I quite clearly stated that there was NO DIFFERENCE between white and black people and that both were prone to success and failure, the colour of a persons skin does not determine whehter you will succeed or not. I CLEARLY stated that!

I then went on to say that white SOCIETIES were more advanced. Are you challenging the fact the Europe is more advanced than Africa?

I dont buy the slavery issue. Slavery now, as it was back in the day, a very African trait. But prior to slavery in terms of the way we have been taught to remember it, Africa was already behind. NO African ships sailed the seas in search of foreign lands, hence the reason that white societies were able to take command.
Now those are facts, not make belief or racist comments as some less informed people would have us believe.
I am asking a serious question here. How do you rid society of race related issues knowing that there is such a gulf in the fortunes of the two races in question?
How do you fix it? How?
The past is gone. White people are responsible for almost everything we use in our everyday lives. As I already said, from the toothbrush, to electricity,cars, aeroplanes, computers etc.
So how on Earth do we fix that?
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

19/03/2008 10:07:23
As the comments here demonstrate, Obama's attempt to challenge the race issue with intelligent argument is doomed to fail; people in general are too stupid and their prejudices are too ingrained.

It's a great shame, because he is being rational and temperate and fair, which is what we need in our leaders. But he will lose, because most people are thick as mince.
45

Number 6,

Germany 19/03/2008 10:07:24
#£ Carolyn, please please please. You have to get some education concerning your country's true past. Colin
Powell is one of the most dispicable characters in US history. Practically his entire career has been a sham,
from his covering up of the Mai lai massacres by American soldiers, to his justification , in his own auto-biography, of the US's shooting of unarmed civillians,oh sorry MMAs, to his stripping of spare parts of US defense systems to sell illegally to IRAN !!!, this at a time when us forces were in the field , and needed those spares for patriot missiles,
to his plethora of intentional lies at the UN, that led to the horrifying situation in Iraq, etc etc etc.

If you are seriously interested then go to
www.The Consortiumnews.com, then go to the section
"Colin Powells true history". Then if you wish come back
with your "Powell for President". Sadly, I doubt you would dare confront the truth, wrapping yourself in the American flag is so much easier , isin't it ?.
46

,

19/03/2008 10:10:06
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The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

19/03/2008 10:28:41
#44 I don't believe his campaign is dead. If this had happened in January the - yes - it would have killed it stone dead. He is now well ahead and I suspect can't be beaten by Clinton for the nomination. the question is - why is Clinton hanging in there? Some have said it is that she hopes that an issue like this will make the superdeelegates turn on Obama - but I jst can't see that happening. I have heard an interseting theory as to why she is still ploughing on regardless.

On MyDD (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/16/18411/2283) they have been debating the possibility that a compromise could be reached by Harry Reid (Senate majority leadfer), Howard Dean (Democratic National Council chair), Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi (Speaker of House of Representatives). Essentially, Reid retires as Senate majority leader and backs Hillary Clinton for that role. The price? Hillary withdraws from the race and a bloodbath at the convention is avoided.

Because the Senate has more power than the House of Representatives, for example, voting on confirmations such as federal judges, she would then be the second most powerful politician in the USA after Obama. Even with a McCain presidency she would have a huge amount of power because McCain would be facing a Senate with around 55 Democrats or so - he could not get anything done without having Senate's approval - therefore he would need to rely on the Senate majority leader to prevail.

Clinton is apparently a popular senator (with other senators) and grasps the intricacies of how the Senate works - it could be a consolation prize that she could find acceptable.

That being said, Clinton won't go for such a deal until she is convinced that she has absolutely no chance of winning. That could happen possibly after the North Carolina and Indiana primaries.
48

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 10:29:14
Horrible Cankers

Yes we all know the history, but how do we stop it?
How do you fix it?
Once upon a time there was a continent called Africa and a continent called Europe. One of those continents explored the horizons, the other did not! As a result of that, we now have a situation in which one race is still behind.
How do we fix that? I dont think we can! But a plethora of black people have proved that all it takes to succeed is hard work and dedication, your skin colour in only an issue if you make it an issue.
49

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 10:30:18
Horrible Cankers

Segregation still exists today! The black music awards are testement to that....
50

Duncan in Edinburgh,

19/03/2008 10:38:20
#50 I would suggest that one important step would be to ditch this rosy, uncritical view of history, and be honest about what we know happened.

"One of those continents explored the horizons, the other did not!"

Explored the horizons? You mean, slaughtered millions, enslaved millions, overpowered peaceful communities, exploited natural resources, fomented war, plundered and raped and destroyed on an epic scale?

It's not about taking on guilt for what our forefathers did, it is about acknowledging the truth, and ensuring the truth is preserved in history rather than airbrushed out.

"Explored the horizons". Yeah, right.
51

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 10:45:45
The race issue is also something that seems to bother blacks more than whites. White people appear to just get on with it, whereas a lot of black people cannot get past the race issue.
Almost everytime I hear a black comedian, race is their tool for earning laughs! They play the "brother" off against his white counterpart, and its funny, but its a sign of the times.
The black music awards, the Black lawyers forum, the black journalists forum, the black teachers association and so on.
These organisations exist, and the criteria for joining is the colour of your skin. So when we speak about racism, we speak about an entire range of problems that cause division and I am not sure we will ever be able to change that.
White people and black people are different, and that is the bottom line. Arab people and Jewish people are different, and that is the bottom line. Protestant people and Catholic people are different, these are all signs of how human beings tend to stick to the culture, people and issues that are more familiar to them.
So a racial divide is not abmormal to the human species. Division exists in all walks of life and it has done so for millenia.
52

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 10:59:13
Dunan

The bottom line is this!

Had African ships sailed the seas in search of foreign lands, and found Europe prior to Europeans finding Africa, then the whole status quo would be different. BUT THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!!!!And we cant change that..Knowledge is power, and the Europeans had the knowledge, so the power was a given.
Whether they used it to the best of their abilities is another debate, but the bottom line is that white people and black people were not UNITED, they were from different places at either ends of the poles. So when one found the other, what did you think was going to happen?
So how do we fix it today? I dont think we can. We all need to remember that if we work hard we will succeed no matter what colour we are.
53

,

19/03/2008 11:00:09
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54

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 11:08:29
Horrible

I still stand by that. White people should NOT be offended by a black music awards, but they are. Or the media suggest they are!

Personally I respect the right for any person to seclude themselves in a forum or organisation they wish. If a man opens a shop today and says no whites permitted that will not bother me. I can go somewhere else. But it bothers society at large!

All I am saying, is that segregation exists, and maybe what we should be doing is accepting that!

Take this for example! In SA during apartheid, Indians were secluded from the same things blacks were secluded from. Whereas blacks demanded that whites offer them education and jobs, Indians grew their own economy, taught their own kids and so on, they didnt need the white man, they only needed their own people and their own systems.
In otherwords, the white man is nothing special!
55

,

19/03/2008 11:49:03
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56

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 13:30:34
@ 36Jacobite,Scotland 19/03/2008 06:54:39 Carolyn 1
said" How can you set a country back that thats voted for the likes of Ronald Reagan, a man that could'nt remember where he was let alone his lines."

Reagan was a truly great man and one of the U.S.'s best presidents. The single greatest achievements, greater than any other man of the time was to end the cold war, and free millions of people from the Soviet regime- and without a war. Not an easy undertaking, but achieved. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall! Tear down this Wall"

The world should could use a Ronald Reagan.

57

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 13:35:12
@ 36Jacobite,Scotland 19/03/2008 06:54:39 Carolyn 1
Said: >And what a legacy George W Bush has given to the American people and the rest of the world -
OIL at over $110 a barrel (I wonder who's pocket he is in) and you lot voted him in for a second term.'<

Here's a news flash:
Oil with a republican congress was 50-$60 a barrel.. until the democrats took over..
there was NO housing bubble...
until the democrats took over


Yea, I can hardly wait to be completely ruined by more Democrats

58

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 13:50:35
@47 Number 6,Germany
Said in reference to Powell: "to his plethora of intentional lies at the UN, that led to the horrifying situation in Iraq, etc etc etc."

I do not have time to blog to you what you already know but refuse to see because you much prefer to blame the US for everything, and I mean absolutely everything in the world that is wrong: so I'll say one word: Chalabi

Ahmed Chalabi fed everyone false intel

There was a long series of informants and defectors who gave the US and UK the same intel, all of which was carefully designed and manipulated by Saddam.

Accuse Powell of not being a psychic able to read Saddam's mind, not intel failure.


By the way, do you despise Powell because he's black, or because he's a black republican, because he was a general, or because he was a black general, or do you despise him just because he's American?
59

Number 6,

Gertmany 19/03/2008 14:08:19
#60 As pathetic and ignorant as ever. By the way, Regan
was also one of the most dispicable characters your country has ever spawned. Why oh why are you so ignorant of your own history, it beggars believe. To blame the fall of the soviet union on Regan's speech is
one of your most hilarious pronouncements yet.

Have you been on the site I suggested, run my ex American intelligence specialists ? full of referenced documents , most of them linked. (You'll find out all about Regan there too, as well as the reasons for
the soviet downfall.) Of course you will have been no where near it, the thought of the truth too terrifiying to confront. With each pasing post you make yourself more and more ignorant, not just in my eyes, but in the eyes of all informed Americans.

As for your race jibe, well that's just typical of your
simplistic redneck mentality. Please stop showing your nation up.Is this the history taught in US schools ?.
60

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 14:31:12
@61 Number 6,Gertmany

Hello? Where did I say Reagan caused the collapse of USSR... communism brought down the USSR.

Let's assume your ungratefulness and snarkiness is because you weren't on the Russian side of the German wall.
When I lived in Germany, the wall was UP. -and Guess what- it sucked big time for the families it separated according to people I met. I do give the credit to Reagen for believing the wall that divided Europe could come down. IT was visionary and no one believed it could be done, but he did it. You ungrateful snob whiner, do you know the phrase Mit tiefer Dankbarkeit!

Here's another news flash: No I didn't read your misinformation link. Why? Because Colin Powell was not in Viet Nam until AFTER the Mai lai massacres.
Guess what: war is hell. People die. Let's make it illegal.

What's interesting is that you didn't answer my question as to why you despise Powell.
61

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 14:40:41
And here's another news flash:
Obama spent an enormous amount of time when he first ran for congress, working at getting others off the democratic ticket. With painstaking diligence, one by one, Obama had the registered voters disqualified until he was the only nominee on the democrat ticket. He won because there was no viable republican candidate for the very democratic area.
And that will be reported in Germany? Yea, right, when Holsteins fly over Berlin.
I must work- off to the drawing board.
AFK
62

Walter McDermott III,

Aberdeen, Wiconsin 19/03/2008 15:18:14
I just can't help thinking that we as a nation, aren't yet ready for a negro president. the Democratic Party appears to be playing right into our (Republicans') hands by sending this boy up against Senator McCain. McCain is a war hero - who fought the axis of evil. This boy is more concerned about lunch-counters and other 'southern stuff' that doesn't even affect most of the country. Most black people don't even know what to make of him.

McCain for me.
63

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 19/03/2008 15:29:22

63
Carolyn 1,
19/03/2008 14:40:41
-------------------------------------

Hey Dude explain this WAR started on false information. A war that is driven by Ur republican Pres Bush/Cheney.

On Monday this week , Vice-President Dick Cheney came to Baghdad and talked about "the phenomenal improvement in security". That day more than 60 Iraqis were killed in bomb attacks.

Cheney was surrounded by protection of a military brigade in the fortress of the Green Zone when he made that statement. Not for one second did he walk a single step outside this military fortress.
And the White House propaganda media machine, censored all pics before releasing them to the world media.

What's the difference between that, and the censorship by the CCP in CHINA.

costofwar.com/index-immunization.html - 5k


The cost in the above web site, does not include the cost of paying to support the 29,000 US troops for the rest of their lives who were maimed in Iraq .

Happy US GOP Corruption Day

GC
64

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 19/03/2008 15:33:51
63
Carolyn 1,
19/03/2008 14:40:41

costofwar.com/

Try this web site if other does not open.in#65

GC
65

,

19/03/2008 15:37:26
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Thomas Paine,

JeruSatan 19/03/2008 15:49:45
An angry, wise man who's been witnessing decades of atrocity and misjudgement opened up and criticized the status quo and is being booed for that. However, corporate media is mad like hell because he dared the undareable(!) and questioned America's blind support for a cancerous, parasitic regime in the heart of middle east, and that's my son THE unforgivable crime in this country today!!
67

Number 6,

19/03/2008 15:51:08
63 I'll try once more. I know when Powell was in vietnam. he was the investigating officer for Mai Lai. He only interviewed the coy cmdr , none of the people who were actually there of course. He then gave the formation the immediate "Nothing happened" routine.
Luckily there were decent us soldiers there who tried to stop the killing and raping. It was they who brought it to light.

I love your description of the site as "Dis-information" , you really do fall into the stereo type
see no evil etc.Classical, especially as you admit you have not been there. Your lack of moral courage shames you.

I detest Colin Powell for all the reasons I listed in
post 47. And what's this ungratefulness about?, to whom are you refering. America ? Regan maybe ?.
Anyway , as you refuse to confront the evidence, your posts, although hilarious are totally without merit.
68

,

19/03/2008 16:03:23
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69

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 18:15:22
I doesnt matter who wins the election, America consumes 25% of the worlds fossil fuel reserves, but only produces 5%, hence the reason her troops have been occupying territory in and about the middle east for eternity.
America.
An expansive nation belonging to the native Indians built by the minds and hands of the Europeans and governed by two political parties in a system that alienates the public for four years at a time.
Who cares what happens?
70

CombatVet68,

New Babylon 19/03/2008 18:49:20
#40 Jacobite:

Perhaps you did not understand my posting. First of all, it is not I who have taken the pulpit to preach the praises of G W Bush. Nothing in my posting mentioned Bush either in a negative or positive fashion. Secondly, as for my own morality, I seek daily, moment by moment, to honor my Lord Jesus Christ in every way, but I am not worthy to be called His servant, for I am a man of like passions as you. Yet I dilligently seek to know Him.

Beloved of my Father, who art in Heaven, know you not that of the abundance of the heart doth the mouth speak?
71

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 19:05:46
CombatVet

Cmon, dont speak about religion, that isnt fair. Not all the people who visit this site are religious, so you need to respect that.
Many athiest people visit these pages and they should be spared the preaching of the few who believe in the ancient biblical teachings that some earthlings still cling to.
Lets leave the religious stuff in the corner, that way you cannot offend anyone.
72

Wee Jimmie,

Lothian 19/03/2008 19:18:11
Media 1 Do you not see th eirony in your statement?

In retort I would say

Cmon, speak about religion, that's fair. Not all the people who visit this site are non-religious, so you need to respect that.
Many religous people visit these pages and they should be spared the ramblings of those who do not believe in the ancient Biblical teachings that many Christians live by.
Lets be inclusive in our discussions and let everyone have their say and not leave the religious stuff in the corner, that way you cannot offend anyone

73

Media 1,

cape town 19/03/2008 19:24:18
Wee Jimmie

I agree, the thing is..Athiests are non offensive because they dont preach. There is no athiest centres around the planet, but there is plenty of churches, chapels and bibles. There is no multi million dollar athiest industry, there is no athiest classes at school. You get my point?
Of the two options, one is forced on humanity, the other is a choice for the elder members of humanity who are eventually permited to draw their own conclusions.
74

Wee Jimmie,

Lothian 19/03/2008 20:09:04
Media 1

athiests may not preach in the sense of a sermon but they dercry my religion in a highly vocal way, I agree plenty of churches (small c) they are just buildings, there are also plenty of strip joints where "worship" goes on, filmstar "worship" Pop star "worship" etc etc.

The non Christian Porn industry is multi billion dollar, the drug industry the same.

There are classes in schools both here and USA where being homosexual is promoted, where climate change is pushes without both sides being able to "preach"

Of the two options one is suppressed by inhumanity the other is a choice for not just the elder members who come to their own conclusions

I prefer everyone hears both sides then makes up their mind.
75

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA...bye Bush -Cheney..u. evil leaders. 19/03/2008 20:13:05
72
CombatVet68,
New Babylon

Dude All I can say to U is .

The DOG, sorry I meant GOD I believe in
Ain't short of cash.

GC
76

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 21:21:53
@69 Number 6,
If you, and I assume you are speaking for Germany, are so certain that "Powell is one of the most dispicable characters in US history. " I urge you to take responsibility for this enlightenment, get your facts together and present them to the ICC so he may be tried as a war criminal. To have him hanging is what you want, isn't it?

1. As for reading your link, No, I did not read your leftie liberal (way-out-in-left field )anti American link because it was an incorrect link, first of all, and because I have to work. No I am not interested in anti-American propaganda hoping to turn this country into a fascist liberal state. The New York Times is more than I need for a quota.
2. As for 'my' racism, hahaha. My family with a very German name, never changed our name during WWI or WWII because we were PROUD to be German, however, we did not agree with German imperialism or idealizations of nazism. The Germans murdered my three Czech aunts in the Holocaust, and I had three American uncles who died fighting the Nazis. In the years since, has my family hated the Germany for what the Nazis did? No. Do I hate the Germans? No. My question is why is it that you hate America? Perhaps with maturity, you will become more tolerant of others in the world who are not self-replications.
3. By the way, your German arrogance may not go over so well if you were in the US by the way.
4.You said "Anyway, as you refuse to confront the evidence, your posts, although hilarious are totally without merit."
Since when is propaganda put out by George Siros and buddies true?
77

Carolyn 1,

19/03/2008 21:53:15
@69 Number 6,
The website is consortiumnews.com
It's NOT www.The Consortiumnews.com,

After some checking, Robert Parry is considered a "conspiracy theorist" and he's not funded by Siros. That said, Parry is not financially successful enough to pursue journalism full time, since 20 years ago. That would logically be explained because of his lack of credibility.
As for me learning my history, please please note, that in the US conspiracies are not taught as history. (
78

,

19/03/2008 22:30:48
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Itchy,

19/03/2008 23:58:59
"to condemn it without understanding its roots"

Yes, the man is a racist and only gets away with it because he is black.

The man cheered on the 9/11 attacks because the perpetrators weren't white.

The rest of your speech is just mumbo-jumbo Mr Obama.

The irony is that, if Obama loses, it will be the American people who are denounced as racist.
80

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 00:27:45
Carolyn1. #79.I found this in my files

Subject: FW: Obama's Church

Barack Obama mentioned his church during his appearance with Oprah. It's the Trinity Church of Christ. I found this interesting.
Obama's church: Please read and go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming.
Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa . No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!!! Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former?) Muslim upbringing.
Are you aware that Obama's middle name is Mohammed? Strip away his nice looks, the big smile and smooth talk and what do you get? Certainly a racist, as plainly defined by the stated position of his church! And possibly a covert worshiper of the Muslim faith, even today. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa!
I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers. This is why it is so important to pass this message along to all of our family and friends. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary.
Click on the link below for the website of the church Barack Obama belongs to:
www.tucc.org/about.htm



81

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 00:29:30
The above is found in my files..I don't want to come off as a racist, as I am not...but these are the facts of Obama's church.
82

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 00:34:02
I just checked the link and it works..They explain the church to you.
83

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 00:46:36
I repeat...this was sent to me..I am just passing it along to you. The post at #82 is not in my words. IT WAS SENT TO ME..
84

,

20/03/2008 00:53:01
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,

20/03/2008 01:25:58
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,

20/03/2008 02:03:10
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Number 6,

Germany 20/03/2008 14:16:49
#79 Carolyn1, Brilliant, now Robert Parry is a "conspiracy theorist" (Whatever that might be).
Tell me, what's your take on Noam Chomsky ?.
88

Carolyn 1,

20/03/2008 20:35:08
@89 #6
I quote: "History News Network, described Parry and five other investigative journalists as "conspiracy theorists" "
I quote: "Christopher Hitchens represents conspiracy theories as the 'exhaust fumes of democracy', the unavoidable result of a large amount of information circulating among a large number of people."

The term "conspiracy theory" is frequently used by mainstream scholars and in popular culture to identify a type of folklore similar to an urban legend, especially an explanatory narrative which is constructed with particular methodological flaws.
The term is also used pejoratively to dismiss claims that are alleged by critics to be misconceived, paranoid, unfounded, outlandish, irrational, or otherwise unworthy of serious consideration."


Considering that you use Parry as a truthful source of unbiased news, you have lost your credibility.

Noam Chomsky is an elitist whose prominence and respect is limited to within that elitist world.
89

Zyskandar A Jaimot,

Orlando, Fl. USA 20/03/2008 20:36:07
The MODERATOR of this is a SOCIALIST 'SHYTEHEAD' would fit right-in with 'BARKY' OBAMA!!!
90

American,

20/03/2008 22:23:33
#82-lynne-"I cannot believe this has not been all over the TV and newspapers"--Of course its not going to be all over the media. Barack was the great black-white hope for the liberal media. cnn commentator (anderson cooper, I think) was mad because wrights sermon made the news and made barrack look bad. Honestly, if it wasnt for conservative talk radio & fox news the news of wrights (barracks mentor) hatred for whitey, the jews, and America would have never been known. I dont even recall a fuss made about obama keeping his hands in front of him, instead of saluting the flag--like those around him, during the national anthem.
91

American,

20/03/2008 22:25:09
#81-itchy-Agreed! There will probably be riots if he loses too.
92

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 22:52:02
American

He just trashed his grandmother again as a "typical white person"..so who is the racist?.
After 20 years of listening to an American hating pastor; could he really love America?..to the extent of not having his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. America and Democrats better wake up to reality.
If he felt the man was wrong...he should have lft that Church.
93

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 22:55:32
American

I still believe he is a closet muslim..and boy will the Arab world be happy if he is elected.
Not only that..if there was a way to "infiltrate" the gov't,..what better way then at its highest level?
Sounds crazy doesn't it? ...but think about it!!
94

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/03/2008 23:07:18
If McCain had made these speeches..he would be considered racist.

The New Black Panther Party has endorsed Obama. They want reparations for all black people for slavery.
They want ALL black prisoners released from jail.

Black Liberation Theology..is equal to KKK.
Farrakan has endorsed Obama

This is frightening.. It is no longer funny..


95

Biker,

21/03/2008 10:47:34
Media 1. You said it is undeniable that white societies are far more advanced and far more mature than black societies, and that has been the case since before the ships arrived in Africa.
I would take issue with this statement. Black scocieties are every bit as sophisticated as white ones and always have been. Even tribal societies have their hirachy and rules. Simply to judge them by your own standards is not correct.
Black Music Awards. These were developed as a way for black musicians, who felt they were being ignored, to honour their preferred music.
Almost all of the black organisations were originally pressure groups for the advancement of the black community. This largely because the felt discriminated against.
I return to my initial statement. If the collonials had educated and positioned the indiginous populations correctly, perhaps none of this would be nessesary.
I agree however with your question, what do we do now? The answer I feel is nore tollerence from both sides and an acceptence that we are equal. But this needs to be re-enforced by government.
96

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 22/03/2008 16:56:05
In keeping with Jacobite..Scotland..
Pat Buchanan wrote and article called "A Brief for Whitey"..
It is about how Obama would explain sitting in a pew for 20 years and not knowing or hearing Wright's racist rants...Against white America,maligning of Fidel and Gadhafi, and inventing Aids to infect and kill black people.

How was he going to justify 20 years of "THE US OF KKK, ANF GOD DAMN AMERICA".

He did the only thing he could do..TURN THE TABLES.

He admitted that Wright's statements were "controversial," and "derisive" and "racially charged", relecting "a distorted view of America".

He then listed grievances and informed us what white America must do to close the racial divide and heal the country.
The "white community," said Barack, must start "acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination -- and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past -- are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds ... ."

According to Buchanan there are some things wrong with that statement.

. It is the same old con, the same old shakedown that black hustlers have been running since the Kerner Commission blamed the riots in Harlem, Watts, Newark, Detroit and a hundred other cities on, as Nixon put it, "everybody but the rioters themselves."

Was "white racism" really responsible for those black men looting auto dealerships and liquor stories, and burning down their own communities, as Otto Kerner said -- that liberal icon until the feds put him away for bribery.

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.

97

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 22/03/2008 17:04:02
CONTINUED..

Buchanan thinks this time it should be a two-way conversation. White American needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.
Pat Buchanan Says
First, America has been the best country on earth to black people. It was here 600,000 black people brought in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity the black communities have ever known.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the '60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.
Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white applicants.

Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?

Barack talks about new "ladders of opportunity" for blacks.

Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown, and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for "deserving" white kids.

Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America? Is it really white America's fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?


98

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 22/03/2008 17:04:44
CONTINUED...

Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.

Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.

Mr. Buchanan is a nationally syndicated columnist and author of "The Death of the West," "The Great Betrayal," "A Republic, Not an Empire" and "Where the Right Went Wrong."


 

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