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Salmond hits out at taxes plan for Scotland

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Published Date: 10 November 2008
ALEX Salmond yesterday attacked moves which he claimed would give Holyrood a defined share of tax revenues but not the means to change the rates themselves.
The First Minister said he believed both the Labour Party and the Calman Commission, which was set up to look into more powers for the Scottish Parliament, were "moving towards" assigned taxes for Scotland, not more tax powers. The difference is crucial. If tax revenues were assigned to Scotland, the Scottish Government would be given exactly the amount raised by each tax north of the Border – so much for income tax, so much for stamp duty and so on.

This amount of money would go up and down as the tax takes varied from year to year but Scottish ministers would not have the ability to influence those revenues because they would not have power over the tax levers themselves.

The UK government is due to publish its submission to the Calman Commission today and there were suggestions yesterday that it will call for assigned tax revenues for Scotland, but no change to the tax powers themselves.

Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, said both he and the Prime Minister were in favour of greater "financial accountability" for the Scottish Parliament but he did not endorse new tax powers for Holyrood.

Mr Murphy said: "As the Prime Minister said to the CBI, the big challenge in this process is how we can get a degree of financial responsibility for the Scottish Parliament and financial autonomy. That is about doing so within the structure of the United Kingdom.

"We would like to see a system where the Scottish Parliament was more responsible and more accountable for its spending decisions."

In response, Mr Salmond said it appeared as if Labour ministers in London were moving away from any new powers for the Scottish Parliament.

He said: "There are signs that Labour are already retreating from any suggestion of any more legislative power for the Scots parliament. As soon as the pressure comes off the Labour Party, they revert to type, of wanting to preserve and protect as much power as they possibly can in London and give as little to Scotland as they can possibly get away with."

Mr Salmond said of Labour: "They seem to be moving in the direction of assigned revenues." But that outcome would be worse than the present system, because Scotland would lose "control and certainty over its revenue".

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  • Last Updated: 10 November 2008 9:12 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 00:04:07
Another day..................Another fight with Westminster.

Has he actually won any of them yet??

He just does not know when to give up.
2

Conan the Librarian™,

10/11/2008 00:08:38
2
Something like yourself then, Rufus?
3

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 00:11:33
Fot those that missed it..........

Alex Salmond Glenrothes Defeat Video on YouTube

Here, I know you'll enjoy it:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hYq-vC5mxNQ

(especially the Jimmy Krankie comment)
4

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 00:13:01
2 Conan the Librarian™,10/11/2008 00:08:38

"Something like yourself then, Rufus?"

In many ways YES, but this is not my job.

Salmond is First Minister and he can afford to take out 12 days to go electioneering in Glenrothes.

He can't be very busy can he?
5

Conan the Librarian™,

10/11/2008 00:23:43
"In many ways YES, but this is not my job."

Dedicated to your hobby then Rufus?

Your hobby which includes deriding many fellow countrymen's deeply held beliefs.

Personally attacking the First Ministers appearance, wife, and liking for curry.

Hope you are well paid for your "hobby", Rufus.

6

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 00:30:38
Rufus.

What's this I hear about 15bn in tax cuts?

Is it true that there's to be a Spring election?

BTW, why were all the previous tax rises needed?

10% rise for the lowest paid!
Tax on pension dividend!!
Below inflation rise in the SBG!!!

Was it because we were all too affluent?
Were we all earning too much??
Or was it because GB was just incompetent when there was a worldwide boom???

I await you Mandelsonesque comments with baited breath.
7

Conan the Librarian™,

10/11/2008 00:31:33
6
Good Morning Spook, I'm off to bed now.

If you see The Col. tell him AM2 is scared of him...

http://www.scottishunionist.com/2008/11/these-people-scare-me.html
8

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 00:32:34
#6, Spook.

Good morning Spook.

What's the source, please?
9

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 00:44:11
Rufus the firefly only brings light to, that little part of the Universe, that is himself.
10

,

10/11/2008 00:44:34
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11

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 00:50:11
Mr Muppet said: "As the Prime Minister said to the Creeps of Brutish Industry, the big challenge in this process is how we can get control of the Scottish Parliament through quashing any chance of financial autonomy. That is about keeping Scotland within the control of the United Kingdom.'

Aye
12

Billiam Wallace,

10/11/2008 00:52:33
Groucho Marx is one of my heroes and I find it offensive that Doofus T Gitface has taken the name of one of his most famous characters. That someone with no sense of humour and in fact, no sense, should have done this gies me the boak.
13

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 00:58:39
9Conan the Librarian™, 10/11/2008 00:31:33

He's a wee feartie. Always knew that.
14

,

10/11/2008 00:59:50
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15

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 01:00:14
Suddenly the firefly morphs back into a falcon (tranny).

Good morning Tranny.
16

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 01:06:27
Good morning Sam????????

Good Lord, isn't there a lot of morphing going on this morning.

Maybe it's to do with NuLabour tax cuts. Seems funny somehow, but GB doing something for the lowest paid, is like the living in Never, Never Land.

Maybe that's it!
17

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 01:11:00
20 - Bird of Prey

"17 - Nice comment even from a tranny."

Who you cawin a tranny pal? That's Sam's joab.
18

,

10/11/2008 01:16:39
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19

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 01:19:39
26 - sam, greenock

You know I'm saving it all for you big boy.
20

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 01:26:22
28Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say, Roseburn Terrace embra 10/11/2008 01:20:57
23

"im tho obnoxiouth compaywed to me attiwa the h u .n ith mickey mouth"

Poor oral hygiene can often lead to tooth loss and speech impediments.
21

Royster,

10/11/2008 01:41:25
Yet more nonsense from Alex 'Iceland is the Way Forward' Salmond. His credibility on tax and the economy is zero.
22

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 01:42:27
30 - Bird of Prey

Not bad - but it needs to be developed. Good start none-the-less.
23

An Beal Bacht,

10/11/2008 01:44:13
31 - Royster

His credibility is double that of Brown's then?
24

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

Departing Fife and Heading for Sanity 10/11/2008 02:35:35
So, the SNP lost out in Glenrothes due to the snivelling Fife newtown's lack of backbone and willingness to fight for what is right.

Scotland must depart from the Union post haste, I am flabbergasted at how short peoples memories are.

THE LABOUR PARTY HAS HAD ITS NOSE IN THE TROUGH FOR SO LONG......HOW CAN PEOPLE BE SO STUPID AS TO CONTINUE TO VOTE FOR THEM.

TO THE PEOPLE OF GLENROTHES......THE WORLD IS LAUGHING AT YOU
25

Matt there,

Somewhere 10/11/2008 02:53:12
Jim Murphy said: "Can I sneeze yet, please, Gordon? Can I? Can I?"
26

The Pict.,

canada 10/11/2008 03:18:19
Right Haggis # 34. You're dead right.

Re: Alex Salmond fighting for less taxes for Scotland How dare he do that.

Rufus Fire?fly Royster & Riever please accept our apologies and you will no doubt NOT accept any reduction in your taxes should Alex be successful. By the way, they have not found a way to give spines to the spineless.
slainte mhath
27

Royster,

10/11/2008 05:46:47
'Let's make Scotland more like Iceland.' - A. Salmond.
28

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/11/2008 06:04:11
#18 Sam, Greenock

"Salmond would be the worlds worst taxman and would cripple Scots, business leaders have said they would go south with their companies, need i say more."

And what would anyone living in Greenock know about Business?

You don't have any. The only people in the town with a job are all the foreigners working in the IBM call center. The natives are all on the Giro.

If it wasn't for 4Charity Shops, 6 Betting Shops, 3 Off Licences and the Branches of 2 failed banks their would not be a single store on West Blackhall Street. ( Main High Street )

But you always elect the Labour candidate! I would tell you that you are an idiot but when you mention you live in Greenock, it's not necessary.
29

,

10/11/2008 06:28:54
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30

,

10/11/2008 06:31:13
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31

Angleland Isover,

10/11/2008 06:38:52
If the calman commission offers less power for the S>P the people will demand more, If they offer more the people will demand a lot more. The future is forward and it is inevitable.
32

John S,

10/11/2008 07:27:25
The Labour Party is now becoming/has become control freaks like our PM.
Gordon appointed himself.
Gordon choose Wendy Alexander.
Gordon choose Iain Grey.
Gordon-Glasgow East by-election,phoned 4 party loyalists in total asking if they would stand for Labour incl Steven Purcell(4 times).
Gordon choose Lindsay Roy.
33

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 07:40:00
#43

Gordon won Alex's lost and it was all Alex's fault as he admitted. On the day Gordon was the better man
34

,

10/11/2008 07:42:42
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35

,

10/11/2008 07:43:40
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36

John S,

10/11/2008 07:48:54
#44:Nikostratos.
Charles Clarke attack on Brown 'the deluded control freak'11 Sep 2006
Eurounion.Gordon Brown is well known as a control freak. May 2007
Money Week.Mr Brown’s a control freak. He hates risk. Oct 08, 2007
Clare Short,"Gordon Brown and I worked closely with each other for a long time and he has always been a control freak and a spinner,",July 11 2008
Mr Darling has twice threatened to quit over “control freak” Mr Brown’s tinkering.July 11,2008

37

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 10/11/2008 07:50:20
“The difference is crucial. If tax revenues were assigned to Scotland, the Scottish Government would be given exactly the amount raised by each tax north of the Border – so much for income tax, so much for stamp duty and so on.”

Who would measure these assigned revenues, and could we trust them to produce accurate figures?

For years we have had the GERS report intentionally under-estimating the tax revenue generated in Scotland, lest the accurate figures give succour to those who would debate that an independent Scotland is financially viable.

Given this track record, would Westminster Treasury produced revenue estimates have any credibility?
38

,

10/11/2008 08:10:13
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39

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 08:16:00


Gordon on GMTV live from downing street talking to real people about their everyday problems.

Alex where is he sulking in his tent? talking to extremist Nationalist about the usual stuff. betrayal lies,deceit comparing each others chip on their shoulders.Reading the mcrone report out loud to each other.

40

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 08:24:51
#46


Oh I get it Gordon hypnotised the scottish Electorate them being in the snps eye's simple minded folk. Unable to make an informed choice. Shame we have to have elections still if the snp were ever to gain total power you lot would soon stop all this election nonsense wouldn't you?
41

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/11/2008 08:38:31
Sounds like a good idea for ridding us of the barnett formula for good.
42

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/11/2008 08:43:25
52-Nikostratos-Have you not noticed that many of scotland's tartans have a yellow streak running through them, and represent the mindset of our people very well. Why do you think we are so good at the glorious defeat?
43

AJM,

10/11/2008 08:43:29
So Alex says that this what he believes is going to happen. As as reault of this "believe" he has launched an attack on Westminster. This is desperate stuff, he is trying to get back on track, Westminster bashing, trouble is he is now left making up his own theories and then being against them.

Soon will be hearing that AS has heard that Westminster plans to nationalise hot air as a result he is against it arguing we need more hot air not less. He will assure us that if the SNP could get independence there would be more than enough hot air for everyone.

I will do him a favour and say that maybe he has heard this hint about taxes from the same useless bunch of SNP advisors that told him to go strut his stuff about an earthquake victory.

Or proposed that all SNP drones go and waste £10 in a betting shop as AS likes to do.

Probably all he is doing is trying to get SNP faithful to forget the cracks that are appearing in his public persona. After all attacking Westminster is like a drug to a SNP supporter.
44

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/11/2008 08:50:12
This is for all the dim half witted,the GERS shows what is made on the scottish account and nothing else.
45

MoClana,

10/11/2008 09:07:57
#38 kapunghighlander - Briiliant ! someone who lives in a community which has been screwed blue and tattooed by Labour for the past 50 years accuses AS of financial mismanangment...whilst living in poverty all around them, unemployment, drug and alcohol addiction, poor health and a complete collapse of community....these people are just to stupid learn.

AJM - BWAHAAA nice one, a labour supporter lecturing nationalists on the 'Cracks' within their party...you couldnt right half the Unionist nonsense above, they won a seat they never lost yet claim to have beaten the SNP? their majority has shrunk in the seat concerend. Unless you are insane and honestly believe their will be a Labour goverment in westminster forever then Independence is only as far off as the next change in UK goverment...2 years.

Meanwhile, just around trhe corner looms recession, job losses, repossesions, bankruptcies . I work within the finance industry and we have not even reached the tip of the iceberg, im talking specifcally about the building industry, who are offering new builds as part payment of their debts...they have around 2 months left before collapsing and its wide spread, their sub contractors will go, their suppliers will go under and so to the average tradesman.

Its looking hellish....and these Labour chimps above think GB has save the economy, your living in la la land.

GB will hope to keep things afloat untill April and call an election as he knows if things have not gone horribly wrong by then, they soon will.

The Labour clowns above will have us all think its a global problem, yes the financial crisis is global, but what these other countries do not have is massive personal debts and over inflated house prices compounding any economic decline, they are and will stay ahead of the UK for as long as the recession, perhaps even depression, lasts.

Thank Gordon brown for exposing us all to the aggressive greedy credit market and out of control house prices. So
46

Alastair the First,

10/11/2008 09:10:41
38: Oy! Don't paint everyone from Greenock with the same brush. I'm from there originally and I'm an SNP supporter, and I can assure you there are lots of us. That useless wee turd Cairns is maybe going to get a fright at the next election. And as for Duncan McNeil - watch him at FMQ and see if you can tell him apart from a performing seal. OK, the seal has a higher IQ.
47

MoClana,

10/11/2008 09:13:42
long as new Labour had its ' feel good factor ' and its 'things could only get better ' soundtrack , they didnt care, as long as they got their cut.

People didnt have money in the boom years they had DEBT......shame on the new labour movement!

Soar Alba
48

Calvinist,

10/11/2008 09:17:36
Why was Salmond poncing around wearing a poppy yesterday. Here is a man who persistently tells us we are not free. Is he now acknowledging the fact that thousands of BRITISH servicemen and women died so that he could have the freedom to engage in his rants against the very country that ensured it?
49

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/11/2008 09:19:16
59-MoClana-Speak for yourself dead beat many of us had money.
50

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 09:21:17
#59

Is Alex Salmond more wealthy now than he was a year ago?
51

John S,

10/11/2008 09:22:02
#48 bully wee alba, You are correct the GERS reports are not accurate even the reports themselves use the word estimate(s) which means how accurate are the reports or what is there "estimated" accuracy ?

Here is an enlightened extract of the recent GERS document.
For public receipts, GERS relies on numerous sources. Many taxes are collected centrally and their distribution by region is often unavailable. Consequently, GERS uses appropriate survey data to estimate Scotland's share of the various revenue sources.

From economicsuk:-"GERS" is unique, and there are no directly comparable publications for the English regions, or for Wales and Northern Ireland. "
So why is it that Scotland receives this report and WHY is there no corresponding report for any other part of the UK? Could it be that there is, in fact, a malevolent reason of why this is the case, especially as all these reports (since their inception in 1992) have all drummed up the same conclusion: Scotland is in deficit. May 10, 2007
52

MoClana,

10/11/2008 09:22:56
Calvanist - Is he now acknowledging the fact that thousands of BRITISH servicemen and women died so that he could have the freedom to engage in his rants against the very country that ensured it?

you idiot, thousands of Scots who believed in Independnece died for freedom, along side, Canadians, Austrialins, Indians, French, and numerous other coutries. England did not deliver victory in WWI it was (as it was in WW2) the many countries combined did.

Take your Union Jack blinkers off, you do a great dis service to those many millions of Non English soldiers that lost their lifes.
53

Calum10,

10/11/2008 09:24:26
New poll out shows that the SNP have a 9% lead over Labour for the Wsetminster elections.

Glenrothes was a one off for Labour. The SNP are still the biggest party in Scotland.

So what was Gordon "I hate everything Scottish" Brown and Sir Kenneth "fecking idiot" Calman saying.

It really doesn't matter what this commission says or does it doesn't change the fact that Scots want more powers for the Scottish parliament, and they'll make that plain through the ballot box.
54

MoClana,

10/11/2008 09:32:40
# 62 Is Alex Salmond more wealthy now than he was a year ago?

If its an anti Alex Salmond tirade you want to go on, then fine, it doesnt surprise me Labours hacks like you have no other line of attack or concern for Scotland.

However, when you are yet again still engaged in a personal war with AS this country is going to slip into not recession but a depression, check out the difference. Long term negative growth and unemployment. Now you can through mud and hope it sticks to AS, but what you can not escape and what Brown can not escape is the fact that we were in the worse possible posistion to take on this financial crisis....why? What happened to the rewards of '10 years of growth' ?

Was it real growth of virtual growth, were we sensible or were we spending beyond our means, simply to get on the housing market? or buy a car? how did we pay for it, cash or plastic?

Who was steering HMS Britian? ...Brown, who now captians the ship...Brown.

Soar Alba
55

Alan B,

10/11/2008 09:42:00
Can anyone labour supporter justify why abolishing Barnett and moving to assign scottish taxation to scotland without allowing the scottish parliament to vary the tax rate is a good idea.

It seems to me barmy.

When Wendy set up Calman she talked about fiscal federalisation. This was a watered down version of the fiscal powers her economist husband had advocated to transform scotlands poorly performing economy.

Now labour have seemed to uturn on it. Only a few months ago Brown publicly talked about giving tax powers to the scottish parliament. Now he has uturned again.

The only reason i can think of for Browns uturn is political expediency. It will be very hard for him to be a scottish pm if he is in charge of raising tax in england but not in scotland. As such Brown is putting himself again infront of the desparate needs of scotland and the people of scotland. As a result scotland will continue to suffer.
56

John S,

10/11/2008 09:42:13
#60:Calvinis, I served in the British Army for you as well as all citizens of the UK consequently I was prepared to die for all citizens of the UK that includes you (including your ranting) as well as Gordon Brown, Alex Salmond and Her Majesty etc etc.
Remember that 176 British servicemen and women have died in Iraq and 122 in Afghanistan,I hope the remainder can return home safely.
57

Lianachan,

Highlands 10/11/2008 09:46:14
If people want Scotland to remain in the union, and carry on within the UK then that's fair enough. What bamboozles me is why so many of them take delight in Scottish mis-fortune, and are so insulting about both Scotland and Scots. Don't they want Scotland and its people to be a contributing player in the UK? Having an actual union? Do they honestly believe our place should be as fore-lock tugging scroungers, happy to be dominated entirely by the largest part of the union?
58

,

10/11/2008 09:53:58
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59

AJM,

10/11/2008 10:12:58
#74 Ha Ha, you are so right, you will not find any vitriole, bile and faintly racist comments on here from those cheeky chappies supporting the SNP. Absolutely spot on, its all the unionists.

#73 As a SNP and clearly not one to put people down especially those who are contributing to the UK. How about then telling us as a Scot what you think about those Scots in the UK goverment. Without of course stooping to being as insulting as only unionsts can.

Probably SNP myopia will previal.
60

Miss H,

10/11/2008 10:19:21
Not sure I understand the concept of assigned revenues or how this would make the Scottish Parliament more accountable.

If Westminster retains control of economic policy how can the Scottish Parliament be made accountable for how successful those policies are?

Or is that the trick? Make the Scottish Parliament accountable for decisions taken at Westminster?

Think people will see through that one somehow!!!
61

AJM,

10/11/2008 10:27:53
#73 Miss H as I understand the article AS has dreamt it up as it has not been proposed. AS has also decided he is against this proposal that has not been proposed.

The trick probably is to see if that is going to be the proposal.
However how many more headlines of AS attacking Westminster over proposals that AS has dreamt up can people take without seeing through him.
62

Miss H,

10/11/2008 10:28:46
55 Clearly you did not hear Tavish Scott on GMS this morning.

You may be confused about this - as is G Brown. Don't conflate support for greater fiscal autonomy with support for the SNP. The SNP stands for independence and will obviously support any increase in autonomy for Scotland. But the Lib Dems and Tories also support more fiscal autonomy for Scotland. Until quite recently Labour appeared to support that as well. The Scottish Parliament voted for the Calman Commission - well the unionists did - with a remit to look at the Parliament's financial powers. Now the UK Government is saying no.

The SNP will be laughing. It's the unionist parties that have been led up the garden path and are now left in a very difficult position - not least 'Scottish' Labour.
63

Miss H,

10/11/2008 10:32:29
79 Suggest you read the Scotland on Sunday which seems to have a copy of the submission.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Brown-to-deny-Scots-Parliament.4675490.jp

Obviously we will need to have this verified but looks to me pretty authoratitive.
64

,

10/11/2008 10:34:37
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65

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 10:35:59
#76 agreed.

I'm open-minded about Scottish independence, but feel until we've dealt with poverty throughout the British Isles then the constitutional debate can wait. Raising the standard of living for people worse off than me in Liverpool or Luton or Llanelli is more important to me than arguing about which geographical region owns what and should profit from it at the expense of others. Is that not just Thatcherism ratcheted upa degree or two?And before the usual suspects shoot me on this, I will add that I think that SE England benefits hugely from the bounties accruing because of the City, governmental offices etc, but there is still bones-of-the-@rse poverty there too.

I do read many posts on these and other websites, however, from those only too willing to take offence and resort to parochial insult when a point of view is expressed which does not fit with their own.
66

Alan B,

10/11/2008 10:38:37
#Lianachan

"What bamboozles me is why so many of them take delight in Scottish mis-fortune, and are so insulting about both Scotland and Scots."

Completely agree.
67

brownlie,

10/11/2008 10:43:48
76 sm753

Who has been insulting to Scotland and the Scots?

A certain sm753 repeated insults a Scot, Alex Salmond as "fat" and "his immensity" and refers to another Scot at "porcine".

I'm sure you'll join with me in condemning such insults.
68

Alan B,

10/11/2008 10:48:20
#57vintage

"I'm open-minded about Scottish independence, but feel until we've dealt with poverty throughout the British Isles then the constitutional debate can wait."

There is the obvious problem with that argument, what if the constitutional settlement is responsible for our poor economic performance.

From a scottish point of view less that 2% economic growth over 30yrs shouts that the current arrangements are not working. Just look at why scotland has not performed well relatively to so many others in europe.

You say you agree with sm753. But he when asked if he would support the union even if it was not in scotland national economic interest he said saying it was not money for him. As such his interest is an emotional attachment to the union as a priority over living standards of the people of this country. He is quite happy for others to be poorer if it means he can have a constitutional union.

Also even puting independence to one side for a moment. The highly centralised british state particularly now in england leads to economic underperformance. If you look at Australia, the US and Germany(particularly before reunification) they performed well because they had devolved federal structures. Post ww2 poorer performing big countries like the uk, france and italy were due to over centralisation.

In the uk we have suffer massively from the inability and unwillingness of governments to deal with north south divides. A divide made very appartent when the governor of the BOE Eddie George said unemployment in the north was a price worth paying to control inflation in the south.
69

mr angry,

ayrshire 10/11/2008 10:51:22
78. What it means is that labour assign what they count as Scottish revenue , which then forms Scotlands budget. This would likely mean a decrease , SNP take the hit as services are cut , labour get back in and miracuously they find the missing revenue , increase the budget and it goes up significantly. Brown is devious enough to think it would work.
70

Miss H,

10/11/2008 10:54:30
83 A couple of years ago Bruce Kent came to SNP Conference. He said that he had always been suspicious of independence until he realised that it was not only the best chance for Scotland to get rid of nuclear weapons but for England as well. Once Scotland had done it, the argument for unilateral disarmament in England would be infinitely stronger.

The same arguments would apply with poverty. You must know that the countries with the lowest levels of poverty are to the north of us, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden. An independent Scotland could fit into that social democratic model pretty easily. Politically, that is where most people live already.

So my argument would be that you could actually do more for people in poverty in England by supporting a progressive, social democratic independent Scotland than by not doing so.
71

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 10/11/2008 11:05:26
Given the part he played in the SNP's devastating Glenrothes defeat, Salmond should be seen and not heard - as Jim Sillars quite correctly asserts.
72

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 10/11/2008 11:06:51
88

Miss H, as always, you sound reasonable but you and I know that you are a chancer. What about the food shortages in Iceland?
73

Border Scot,

10/11/2008 11:09:05
#88 - So why not adopt the slogan "Vote for independence and see the amount of tax you pay rise significantly"? That is exactly what you are proposing, isn't it? And even then, you are comparing post-agrarian, monocultural Scandinavian countries, with post-industrial, multi-cultural Scotland. Just about the only thing that Scotland has in common with Sweden and Finland are long days in the summer and short days in the winter. Obviously, there is thr oil comparison with Norway, but little else you can throw in. And as the Norwegian foreign minister made clear, even the oil situation would be completely different in an independent Scotland. We would need to spend the oil money to maintain existng expenditure. Norway does not have to touch her oil money precisely because taxes are so high.
74

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 11:13:42
#88

Miss H, all very eloquent, but you do not convince me that by diverting all oil revenues into a Scottish exchequer that those south of the border would not suffer.

Poverty is international, not confined by borders.
75

John S,

10/11/2008 11:16:07
#73.Lianachan, good post, some posters are taking the P*** and are wind up merchants who get a tingle down their leg from there "Jollies" on this forum and having multiple user names for when the need arises.

Off course some of the posters may not even be Scottish, whereas some posters are genuine in there comments but I notice the standard in comments between for "independence" and "not for independence" is wide in favour of the those who advocate "independence" with some comments "not for independence" resorting to personal attacks usually against Alex Salmond instead of convincing us why we should stay in the union.

Question:-Why is the UK (English)dominated Parliament desperate to keep Scotland within the UK ?
76

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 11:17:21
#86

I cannot comment on what the individual has said on posts I have not seen, I agreed with his comments in the post to which I referred. I can do without the insults (although I admit these have been relatively few to me) or seeing those whose points of view do not conform with the majority of pro-Nationalist sentiment subjected to the same.
77

TWC,

Ayrshire 10/11/2008 11:26:23
Scotland must have total cntrol of its finances and then we pay to Central Treasury for reserved matters, since they subsidise us we will be left with a wee bit less to manage with but we'll do ok.
How can the Government disagree with this??
One thing I will say is that this is the topic which will break up the union if they don't give Holyrood real power over money.
The Government have said that Oil won't balance the books for Scotland so let's see what happens with Fiscal Independence while still in the Union.
78

bluehead,

edinburgh 10/11/2008 11:31:11
the quicker we get rid of brown and the rest of that mob,the better it will be for the people of this country.
79

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 10/11/2008 11:42:53
70 Hen Broon
While there may be some problems with the estimates in GERS figures, the analysis to which you refer is completely erroneous and cannot be taken seriously. It is based on false representation of who pays tax.

There are so many glaring faults in the analysis one hardly knows where to start. Look at the situation regarding alcohol duties. This has been based in the analysis on the distiller paying it. But the distiller recoups this from the consumer so it is the consumer whereverhe/she is in the UK who pays the tax. The distiller merely collects it and passes it on to the govt.

For this analysis to make sense we would have to assume that the income tax you pay is not paid by you but by the tax inspector to whom your return is made.
That is one of many false aspects of the analysis and one can see why even the SNP govt does not use this type of analysis.
80

Miss H,

10/11/2008 11:48:34
92 OK but reflect on the fact that oil revenues have thus far been used to subsidise high unemployment in the Thatcher years and the Iraq War during Labour's watch. So it's not a choice between using oil revenues to fight poverty in Scotland or in the UK. The UK has not used oil revenues to fight poverty. We can't say with any certainty that a Scottish Government would use them for that purpose either but we can be pretty sure they would not be used to fight imperialist wars.

So it's your choice.
81

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 11:51:01
#69#70 Hen Broon,

Whoo! Hen broom Unionists under ya bed scary!
82

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 10/11/2008 11:57:18
103 Miss H
As part of his strategy to win the next general election, you can be certain that Gordon Brown will announce the withdrawal of troops from Iraq fairly soon.
83

Shredder,

10/11/2008 11:58:07
#102 Spookie: this AM2/sm753 thing sounds about as if it might take on the scholarly significance of the debate over whether Marlowe and Shakespeare were one and the same (only settled recently by computer analysis of their registers, btw: they were not one and the same).

My personal opinion, for what it's 'worth, is that AM2 was put on other duties following the Candy-man controversy (can't even post the word in full now) and that the inhouse comments were reassigned to sm753: makes sense, does it not!

While we're on the subject of posters with multiple monikers, why do you sometimes as your girl, aka Big Banana Feet LMAO
84

Ugly George,

10/11/2008 11:58:39
102 Spook
Have you not got anything better to do with your time.
85

,

10/11/2008 12:11:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
86

Alan B,

10/11/2008 12:40:05
#sm753

The constitution has alot to do with economic performance. How can control is run and the economic decisions that are taken matter.

The economic argument for indepedence is so that scotland via the scottish parliament have the economic tools at its disposal to address economic issues and try to address economic performance.

Scotland with say fiscal autonomy would allow the scottish economy to change tax policy to address our poor economic performance.

Having power to join the euro etc is a constitutional issue and is related to econonmic strategy.

Even decisions like Browns excellent decision to take monetary policy out the hand of politicians to give indedependence to the BOE had constitutional implications.

"You used to argue that smaller countries performed better (somehow). Now you're saying you need to be decentralised"

You have completely misunderstood what i have said. I said larger countries perform better all things being equal if they are more decentralised than equally large centralised countries. One of the main arguement for scotlands independence is it is a massive process of decentralisation. That does not mean a small country needs to be decentralised as they are already compared to much larger countries decentralised. For instance if the uk had been made up of powerful decentralised regions i do not believe we would have the extreme north south divide that we have. Similar in the way the French centralised system has underperformed post ww2 the German decentralised system.

What i have said regarding small countries is. The economic evidence for some reason suggest they do better than big one.

Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Iceland, Netherlands,Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Finland , Belgium
all have higher gdp per capita ppp that the 4 big european countries of france, uk, germany and italy.

Off course we can up with subjective reasons for that being the case but that does not alter the fact that it do
87

Alan B,

10/11/2008 12:41:09
...
does seem to be the case. Small countries by the nature of being small are taking decisions at a more decentralised level than big centralised countries. As such i see the arguement for either a independent scotland or a highly decentralised uk. (becuase i do not see it happening i have given up on a decentralised uk and do not see any real advantages of that over indepedence).

88

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 12:41:55
#102 The Spook in Leith


"BTW i have around a dozen of AM2 posts printed out and around the same amount of sm753 posts and im compiling a case for the linguistics department"

You wanna get a life spook getting old before your time so you are...linguistics department is that for real I mean why not MI5 or http://spyblog.org.uk/
89

Alan B,

10/11/2008 12:52:48
#sm753

"I said it wasn't JUST money. As it happens, the data do not support the contention that an independent Scotland would be better off today. There may have been a point in the early 70s when that *might* have been true, but it didn't happen so it's irrelevant."

First of all the data does support the contention that an independent scotland would be better off. You would have to think scotland is particularly useless to think that we could not have matched less than 2% growth over the last 30yrs. That is poor and there is no denying that.

Also as i have repeated pointed out and did so above small countries within western european have by and large done better than big ones.

Look at scotland record over the last decade 2.2% growth compared to 2.8% for the uk and 3.6% for the group of small countries in europe that economist such as Wendies husband were comparing us to. Remember even was seen making the economic case for independence.

But that diverts from the point i was making.

When asked if you would still want scotland to remain in the uk union if it was not in scotland economic interest you replied it was not all about money. You made it perfectly clear you would rather scotland was poorer and its people poorer so that we could remain in the union.

Trying to avoid a question or saying you do not think scotland would be wealthier outside was not answering the question.

It is important to know someones motivations. for me if i thought scotland would be better of in the union i would support the union although probably along some federal lines. But reversing the question you made it clear that you support the union no matter what the consequences for the scottish economy. It is better to be honest about it that try to squirm and try to deny what is a perfectly fair hypothetical question.

It was also interesting when i talked about scotland being in recession under labour in scotland and the british media ignoring it and the conseque
90

Alan B,

10/11/2008 12:53:48
...
consequences that has. You also did not know of the recession that Brown plunged scotland into while the uk was doing well.

As such i find it abit weird that you come out with remarks challenging me when i posted of Browns recession in scotland (a manufacturing one in the late 90s and a full blown one in 2001/2002) that such information that you were not aware of has no impact on your political point of view or perception of the scottish economy.
91

mr angry,

ayrshire 10/11/2008 12:56:34
107. Idiot, all he will do is move them to Afghanistan.
92

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 12:58:53
8 The Spook in Leith,10/11/2008 00:30:39

"Rufus T. Firefly stuff your you tube clip, no one is interested in your stupid immature rubbish"

This is from the man that posted the following;

"447 The Spook in Leith,09/11/2008 21:35:40

Im off to do a jobby then go for my Sunday night jog, cant jog when im touching cloth lol ooer im dirty hee hee bye.."

Spook, when it comes to immature postings, you take the gold medal.

What a disgusting thing to put onto a newspaper forum.

It tells people all they need to know about you.
93

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 12:59:57
#122 Hoots" Fandango,


Linguistics department spook wants locking up in shed a padded one...
94

Alan B,

10/11/2008 13:01:21
sorry

#118

The constitution has alot to do with economic performance. The constitution structure has implications for political and economic decision making. Centralised decision making is a one size fits. A decentralised approach means different political parties and decision can take different political and economic decisions. How the economy is run and the economic decisions taken matter.
95

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 13:02:12
#125

If you wanna get at spooky just ridicule his amateurish footballing ability.......Gets him every time
96

Nikostratos,,

10/11/2008 13:04:50
#127 alan b


Wow interesting must go! after reading your informative post I have suddenly lost the will to live...BYE
97

Viva Victoria,

10/11/2008 13:25:58
120.how do you subscribe to this spookiecam,sounds wicked LMAO

What does the obese one mean,the only party reverting to type are the Tartan Tories,ask the voter's in glenrothes and then try asking the Tories who stole all their votes,the Nats really ought to refund their deposit,talk about tory cuts the Nats really have shown their true colours in Fife and everywhere else now LOL
98

Miss H,

10/11/2008 13:30:38
130 Perhaps the thinking is set out more clearly in the quote from Gordon Brown which precedes the para you have posted.

“Devolution has worked, but I do see one problem: while there have been good reasons why this is so, the Scottish Parliament is wholly accountable for the budget it spends but not for the size of its budget. And that budget is not linked to the success of the Scottish economy. That is why we asked the Calman Commission to look carefully at the financial accountability of the Scottish Parliament and this is a critical part of Calman’s remit.”

I would certainly agree with the sentiments underlying that and so would most people I imagine. The Scottish budget is not linked to the success of the Scottish economy, therefore there is no inbuilt incentive for the Scottish Government to grow the economy. It would be better if there was an incentive and if there was greater accountability.

But what I cannot understand however is how the Scottish Government/Parliament can be held more accountable for the success of the Scottish economy when economic policy is reserved to the UK Government and to Westminster.

That just does not make any sense. You cannot make one body accountable for the success or failure of a policy which is the responsibility of another. The success or failure of economic policy in Scotland is the responsibility of Westminster. If they want to make it the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament they must transfer that responsibility and the accountability along with it.
99

Viva Victoria,

10/11/2008 13:31:30
Meant post #125,the darkside had a heavy weekend,I'm a funny monster today LOL
100

TWC,

Ayrshire 10/11/2008 13:34:53
I'm sure this won't give Scotland enough to satisfy the Scots.
I'm pretty sure the Libdems will want more and perhaps even the Tories, I expected a lot better from Labour after Devolution bu I've been disappointed. We can't really Govern if we are only getting pocket money.
101

Alan B,

10/11/2008 13:49:23
#133 Miss H

That is because this is a another unturn by Brown.

Brown orginally did not want Calman and as you know before the election he was saying no new powers for the scottish parliament. With Wendy stirring and asking important questions Brown was wrong footed.

With Wendy gone and Grey going to do Browns bidding and with Brown viewing a turning point in his fortunes he is going back to his old anti devolution position.
102

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 10/11/2008 13:52:01
Don't you just know that when the loathed Broon and Lurch are talking about tax revenue powers or any other powers for the Scottish Parliament their thinking up ways of how to shaft the Scottish people
103

TWC,

Ayrshire 10/11/2008 13:54:05
The figures I have seen (the best were in the Herald in November last year) all show that Scotland would be ok if it were Independent.
Gers is not complete, for example the Income tax figure used is a ratio not the actual tax.
I wrote to Tom McCabe and he told me about the ratio.

What difference does it make to Calman if we collect our own revenues and then pay into the treasury rather than the other way round? It would bring more jobs to Scotland at least
104

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 13:59:41
#103
Whilst I agree that the revenues from oil were used significantly (but not exclusively - remember the Tories put VAT up to 15% from its 10% rate and then up to its current rate) to underwrite welfare benefits (and give generous tax cuts to their supporters) after the Thatcherite attack on industry, I think you're being a bit selective and emotional in your use of the Iraq invasion (I've been in Stop The War since the weeks after 11/9 saw Bush rattle the sabre towards Afghanistan, so I'm on your side in this matter) as the sole example of where revenues have been used UK-wide.

I pay tax and would love to be able to choose where it's spent. Unfortunately, the majority in the current Westminster election system voted for taxes and revenues to be disbursed in a different manner from me (I voted SSP last time) even post-Iraq on 05.05.05 and so I have to accept it although I don't always agree with it. That's life in a capitalist democracy, if that in itself isn't an oxymoron.

Apologies for the overuse of parentheses.
105

Alan B,

10/11/2008 14:05:12
#sm753

"Nothing you've posted resolves the essential contradiction between your contentions "small is good" and "decentralised is good"."

There is not contradiction in what i have said. Maybe I have not explained my position clearly. I am saying big countries are run better if they are run in a decentralised model. As such I believe federal models such as the US, Australia and Germany are decent models of larger countries run in a decentralised federal way.

I think these models of larger countries are better than the centralised uk (particularly pre devolution) and french models.

There is nothing contradictory in therefore believing devolving power is a good think and then believing small countries who are taking decisions for 5 million rather than 50 million is a better model.

As such the choice to me for the uk should be about a decentralised uk or an independent scotland.

"And it wouldn't matter if you had, because the facts are that "smallness and decentralisation are irrelevant"."

That is your opinion. But one I completely disagree with. To me the idea the structure of decision making is irelevent is barmy. Even in corporate organisations they are always looking at organisation theory about best way to structure organisations in order to improve their competitiveness.

"The apparent correlation between small country size and higher economic growth is a statistical coincidence, not a causative relationship."

It is a bloody big coincidence.

The fact is labour for the last 30yrs have argued that big was a necessity economically. That has been proven to be untrue.

But at the end of the day the issue is. Scotland has done poorly in both absolute and relative terms under both the tories and labour. Neither party have any ideas how to address scotland economic performance. Brown in power in a decent global economic climate as a scottish chancellor really has not tried. Why? For me it comes down to his political considerations. For hi
106

Alan B,

10/11/2008 14:08:52
...
Why? For me it comes down to his political considerations. For him to address things like the north south divide when he was chancellor then he would have to wave good bye to his dream of being pm. He put his career over the good of the whole of the uk.
107

Shaken,

10/11/2008 14:13:31
Spot on Alan B

Proportional representation is the way forward for EU and world politics. Independence of a state so clearly defined as Scotland should be relatively stright forward. It's not about Nationalism but democratic accountability.
108

Alan B,

10/11/2008 14:14:58
#140 sm753

I think the point is: the scottish parliament was about devolving social spending ie education and health and controlling councils which spend alot of government money.

However it does not devolve much regarding the economy. It does not devolve many of the tools to promote economic growth.

It is very much a labour type of parliament, a parliament set up to spend money but not generate it.

For me wealth generation is the most important thing. Probably why i tend to have contempt for labour above all other parties.

But we are left with a scottish parliament with few tools round the economy but it is our economy that has done badly. It is the economic decision making that needs devolved far more than the social spending priorites that have been devolved so far with devolution.

As such i see the scottish parliament made in labour image, to spend money and not a parliament set up for wealth generation.

109

vimto,

10/11/2008 14:49:38
slightly off topic,i have a KIA RIO 04 BLACK 1343CC,REAR SPOILER,ALLOY WHEELS,ELECTRIC FRONT WINDOWS,MOT MAY 2009,TAX DEC 2008,ABS,RADIO CD PLAYER+MP3PLAYER,SERVICED MAY 2008 49,100 MILES,ALL NEW TYERS HOW MUCH and please be serious.
110

vimto,

10/11/2008 14:54:56
147. it is in mint condition you sad excuse for a man,only men crash cars.
111

vimto,

10/11/2008 14:56:56
149. YEAH,so could i ask £1800 for it.
112

Stuntman Mike,

10/11/2008 15:01:42
#146: you mean like how only Nats burst their own bubbles with hubris LOL

Hope your little runaround's death proof!
113

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:02:33
152. What has fish got to do with it!
114

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:03:49
153. And what's the hell that's supposed to mean.
115

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:14:04
156. WHY ,MY SPELLINGS BETTER THAN YOUR!
116

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:15:44
157. Oh do be serious!
117

Chris42,

10/11/2008 15:18:35
Alan B,
I totally agree your comments, assigning tax revenues but not giving the Scottish Parliament the economic powers to enable it to improve economic growth will just lead to a cut in the amount the Treasury sends to Scotland resulting in poorer public services. It will please the English electorate though.
118

The Master,

10/11/2008 15:26:01
#144 Shaken: Scotland may be "clearly defined", but I think you'll find that the economy's so inextricably linked to the rest of the UK that business would take flight at the prospect of a separatist Scottish administration with such speed that it would make a Porsche look like Vimto's Kia.
119

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:27:38
163. Look here you
imbecile my daughter can't drive, all i'm asking for is a little help,but as usual you are being a t-at.
120

vimto,

10/11/2008 15:29:01
164. There is nothing wrong with my KIA,t=at.
121

Miss H,

10/11/2008 15:37:59
140 Yes of course the Scottish Government – and local government for that matter – has some influence over the economy. Everything has an influence on economic outcomes – health, education, housing, transport, etc

But economic policy is a reserved function. Read Schedule 5 of the Scotland Act, though I am sure you are already familiar with it. Westminster is responsible for the Scottish economy, not the Scottish Parliament.

It seems to me that G Brown is suggesting some kind of outcome-based funding. Perhaps something similar to the outcome agreements entered into as part of the concordat between the Scottish Govt and local government.

But that would have to be on the basis of outcomes which are within the competence of the authority. You can’t make local government responsible for bringing down waiting times for medical treatment, for example. Not their responsibility. In the same way you can’t make the Scottish Government responsible for Westminster’s economic policies.

I think Alan B is correct – Labour has made a complete U turn on financial responsibility but is trying to find some way of presenting that which avoids admitting it.

122

The Master,

10/11/2008 15:59:16
#166: I can assure you that my disdain for your Kia was purely allegorical.

From a close reading of your posts, I was under the impression that your Kia represents Scotland post separation, with the result that I decided to introduce a metaphorical Porsche into the discussion in order to highlight Scotland's current position of economic strength and influence in the world, as an integral part of the powerhouse that is the UK.
123

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/11/2008 16:06:30
#165 Cameltoe

" Look here you imbecile my daughter can't drive"

Even the morbidly obese are capable of Driving a Kia, you just need to remove the 2 front seats so that she can steer from the rear seat. You might also want to consider using cargo ties in lew of seat belts. This will certainly offer Kimba more dignity and independence than your current arrangement of towing her in a horsebox.
124

KampungHighlander,

10/11/2008 16:09:19
#168 Master

"as an integral part of the powerhouse that is the UK."

Ha Ha Ha
125

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 10/11/2008 16:11:32
The Glenrothes win has gone to Gordon Browns head, he actually seems to believe his own spin. How the hell does he think that the tories and Libdems will support him, he's completely lossing it mad as a bloody hatter.

He is also planning to borrow 15bn to fund tax cuts, madness utter madness.
126

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/11/2008 16:11:32
The Powerhouse UK

4% of the Worlds GDP

20% of the Worlds External Debt.

More like an outhouse than a powerhouse.
127

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 10/11/2008 16:13:02
172 man that's good. Even the toilet paper is borrowed from the neighbours.
128

Walter Ego,

Durness 10/11/2008 16:27:41
Alex who?
129

Shredder,

10/11/2008 16:41:26
#174: Big Banana Feet: whatever floats that Master fellow's boat!

I'll say one thing for him, though: his political views are soundly based and he's unwilling to stand by while Scotland's future is put at risk for little reason other than the siren call of "songs and heroes".

#180: I've seen the Master post that he has "connections in the sex industry" before now, so look no further for an explanation.
130

Miss H,

10/11/2008 16:44:06
179 I think you are kind of grasping at straws there because you realise that the argument that the Scottish Parliament should be more accountable in areas where it has no legislative competence is a bit silly, and going nowhere.

If you can point to any other regional/sub-national legislature which has economic and financial powers which are as limited as the SP's but whose funding is dependent on economic growth I would be surprised.
131

Alan B,

10/11/2008 16:50:30
#sm753

Puting indepedence to the side for a moment.

Why not move to fiscal federalism as advcoated by Wendy. Or fiscal autonomy.

What is the advantage is this policy that Brown is apparently supporting.

Surely as system whereby scotland raises it own taxation to fund scottish parliamentary expenditure is a good thing.

You would then either have specific taxes for reserved matters or probably better have the scotland paying a share of its wealth EU style to the uk government for shared services like defences etc.

There is no reason that account could not be made of richer or poorer areas of the uk with an eu style economic fund so that scotland could help subsidise Nothern Ireland or parts of england if our economy was doing well.

What seriously is the advantage of limiting changes to income tax to only base rate. Not allowing flexibility to introduce things like the 10p tax band. Of limiting tax changes to only 3p up or down.

What is the advantage of having a scottish parliament that can change the method of local government tax but then will be punished for not following the westminster governments method of local government tax as council tax rebates are only for council tax. That just seems silly and restrictive.

What is the advantage of not being able to vary corporation tax but can business rates. Again that seems silly. Personally i would like to possibly scrap scottish enterprise and use the 1/2billion or so to fund a reduction in corporation tax. But we cannot.

I just cannot understand why it is good to have devolution and then make it so restrictive.

Even say flight duty and taxes. If scotland feels that flight duty was detrminental to encouraging more direct flights to scotland and improving our transport infrasture we cannot.

What is the point?

My biggest problem with the union is its total lack of flexibility. It one size fits all approach to economic management.
132

Alan B,

10/11/2008 16:59:18
#sm753

Also as you support the union there are 2 things festering and undermining the union from an english perspective:

1)the idea scotland get subsidised by england

This then follows partly the ignorant view as to why scotland spends it money differently from england with the media in england highlighting areas where scotland spends more and gets a better deal that in england but ignores the areas where england spends more money than scotland.

As such scrapping the barnett formula and allowing scotland to raise and lower its own taxation and give to westminster money to cover shared services would deal with that problem.

2)scottish mps voting on english only matters.

The mess of the funding arrangements means that few areas are really english only. As such fiscal autonomy would clear up this mess.

The undemocratic system whereby scots mps vote on english matters could then be look as and resolved. I would suggest a democratic english chamber to replace the House of Lords would be one possiblity. ie an english parliament. Or alternatively allow english mps to wear 3 hats. One for english matters and the other for uk. But it is really for english mps and the public to decide how to deal with the democratic deficit.
133

Nippy sweetie,

10/11/2008 17:36:52
No suprise the Herald's comments are away, they are just as bad as over here. Regardless of issue they just become an SNP v Labour bunfight with regulars slagging each other off.

V boring most of the time.
134

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 17:50:45

Dear me, how Alex does bluster, he would do better to worry about the excise duty on Lard, obviously his staple diet. Better still enter for the world whingeing finals, as that is the reputation he is gaining for Scotland. Meanwhile in the real world , Gordon the great, clean limbed, firm of jaw, has his firm hand on the tiller, and his glass eye focused on leading us all to the broad sunlit uplands.
135

Media 1,

cape town 10/11/2008 17:53:36
Salmond fights for control, not freedom!
He is so consumed with his own twisted agenda that he will stop at nothing to obtain independence, regardless of whether the people actually want it or not.
Scotland must hope that he retires or is fired, because he is seriously destorying Scotland's good reputation around the world.

I dont expect the lemming SNP followers to understand that, they are to fanatically involved in Salmondmania to care about right and wrong anymore, but the rest of us need to open our eyes and use the referendum vote to say NO to independence.

But will there even be a referendum vote?

I will be home for that, I can assure you.
136

The Master,

10/11/2008 18:01:44
#205: you must know where the "log off" button is!

I myself like to unwind at the Official Steptoe-and-Son Appreciation Society when things get too much for me on here and I just have to discuss the finer points of my DVD collection.

#206: the one man band behaviour of the Nietschian nationalist superman was bound to rebound on him sooner or later. I really think he was beginning to believe the hype himself, judging by his demeanour post Glenrothes!

In the end, it was good old fashioned "Tartan Tory" policies that did for Supernat, combined with the complete demolition of the separation policy post banking collapse: talk about hubris!
137

subrosa,

10/11/2008 18:07:27
# 207

Who do you suggest fights for Scotland's freedom? Or do you prefer Scotland to remain within a one-sided arrangement with the UK?

Many in Scotland do see the potential we would have a being independent and to say Alex Salmond has done damage to Scotland is utter drivel. The SNP have no reason to do damage to Scotland - Westminster has many.
138

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 18:10:00
208# The Master,
Dont know what Nietschian is, does it come from eating too much lard.
139

Miss H,

10/11/2008 18:17:47
209 Don't waste your time with the Master, he's as nutty as a fruit and nut cake.

Don't get me wrong, I have become quite fond of the old boy over the years (in a strictly cyber sense) but he's a hopeless case.
140

The Master,

10/11/2008 18:31:00
#211 Miss H: if, as Brian Wilson advocated in yesterday's Sunday Times, we one day soon get a fair referendum (with a question posed by Westminster and including an option of giving the SP greater powers in light of whatever Calman recommends) then I think you'll find that roughly two thirds of the Scottish electorate constitute a "hopeless case".
141

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 18:31:05
I am sure that the former devout Salmond worshippers are now plotting to get rid of him. He is all wind and no substance.
142

The Master,

10/11/2008 18:35:04
#210: try googling "nietschian" and "superman" to find out more about this: I can say no more or the Nats'll have me deleted. Glad to have furthered your education, if nothing else.
143

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 18:42:16
208#
The Master,
I have found out what nietzschean means, might I respectfully suggest Popinjay also sums up the leader of the SNP.
144

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/11/2008 18:59:10
I personally have always thought there was something fishy about salmond.
145

,

10/11/2008 18:59:10
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146

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:04:57
297 Media

I'm sure the whole of Scotland will take to the streets, waving their union flags, to welcome you back to save the country.
147

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:07:12
221 should be for medusa at 207.
148

Hamish Scott,

10/11/2008 19:15:11
sm73 - ""what if the constitutional settlement is responsible for our poor economic performance.
What on earth has one got to do with the other?"

An independent Scotland would have economic policy for Scotland tailored to the needs of the Scottish economy, not the City of London and the SE of England. If you might recall, a recent Governor of the Bank of England (Eddie George) said that unemployment and poor economic success in Scotland, Wales and the North of England was the price to be paid for the success of the City of London and the SE of England economy. In terms of tackling social deprivation, it's generally accepted that unemployment and poor economic performance are major factors in social deprivation and what goes with that.
149

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:18:26
That the unionists have to resort to personal attacks on the First Minister shows just how defunct and lacking in substance their arguments have become.
150

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 19:18:27
Dear Aberdeenshire Twot.

You are singularly mistaken in your acusation of my having multiple Identities, however, now that I have succeded in rankling you, does this mean I have arrived as a fledgling Scotsman blogger.
151

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:19:20
I see the Herald's Labour controllers have decreed that free speech is no longer acceptable
152

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:19:22
225 sm753

Quite right as usual - if it's alleged on another thread it must be true - everything on that thread is true.
153

Hamish Scott,

10/11/2008 19:20:33
sm753

Incidentally, re unionists rubbishing Scotland, I distinctly remember you describing independence as absurd, whatever the particular word you used it was a contemptible remark and one that I hope in your more considered moments you regret with shame.
154

,

10/11/2008 19:20:34
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155

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 19:21:19
Salmond the Rev I AM Jolly. Huuullloooooww dont bother investing in Scotland. I will just moan about it. Keep yer money. We can live oan oor ane self inflicted misery.
156

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:21:20
# 219

Do you have anything to say about Brown then?
157

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:25:18
235 Shamus,

Ah yes, but is the misery "self inflicted"??
158

Bejjy,

10/11/2008 19:26:29
#227 IainGlasgow,

That the unionists have to resort to personal attacks on the First Minister shows just how defunct and lacking in substance their arguments have become

That the nationalists have to resort to personal attacks on the Prime Minister shows just defunct and lacking in substance their arguements have become.

It works both ways which I'm sure you have noticed but have chosen to ignore.
159

,

10/11/2008 19:27:56
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160

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:28:42
# 18

Michele Mone said prior to the 2007 election that she would head south if the SNP won.

18 Months on and she hasn't left yet. When is she going?

Apparently Mohammed Al Fayed intends to relocate to Scotland if and when it becomes independent.
161

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:29:46
# 18

Michele Mone said prior to the 2007 election that she would head south if the SNP won.

18 Months on and she hasn't left yet. When is she going?

Apparently Mohammed Al Fayed intends to relocate to Scotland if and when it becomes independent.

Even if whinging business leaders do leave there will be plenty more moving in to take advantage of the SNP's intended low corporation tax system.
162

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:29:51
239 Bejjy

What traitorous swine resorted to personal attacks on the Prime Minister? Let's hope he's locked up for 90 days without legal representation and considered for a rendition flight!
163

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:32:32
# 243

Mostly its various accusations of how his incompetence as Chancellor led the UK to be more vulnerable to the Global financial crisis than anywhere else in Europe
164

,

10/11/2008 19:32:48
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brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:33:53
244 sm753

"Which currency would this fairyland have.."

Please keep homophobic remarks off this thread.
166

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:36:28
# 244

How about the Euro? Its good enough for other fairlylands like Ireland, Portugal, Belgium, Holland and several others.
167

vimto,

10/11/2008 19:37:16
The natz talk a load of cack,if you have a black cat they have a blacker one,they think they know everything and know nought.
168

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:39:21
250 sm753

"We'd just be monumentally stupid to do it"

If that is the case how come posters such as Rufus and BTO are against it?
169

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:39:52
# 252

You means as opposed to the Labour Party's infinite fountain of knowledge and wisdom? Or should that be the crystal ball that told Tony Blair where to find Saddam's WMDs?
170

ThomasP,

10/11/2008 19:41:43
#244.

Is THAT your arguement? Fairyland? Does it matter the currency? Is it not more important for Scotland to have an economy made for Scotland rather then London and the South East of England? It's difficult for the London Government to take on policies that can benefit Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England especially when England you have to take London and the South East into consideration which has alot of extra spending involved.
171

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:42:07
253 sm753

You sound like my kind of guy!!

I've heard that AM2 has no sense of humour - do you think that is true??
172

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 19:42:41
238# Your spelling of Duke of Argylls is dodgy. But the pain must be the same. The Grapes of Wrath was a good book.
173

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:44:11
252 vimto

Evening, gorgeous one, do they not say "nowt" instead of "nought" in your part of the world?
174

vimto,

10/11/2008 19:45:15
255.Better safe than sorry,and hussain did awful thinks to the kerds,but hey,guess you are ok with that!
175

vimto,

10/11/2008 19:45:49
259. NO.
176

subrosa,

10/11/2008 19:50:56
*Please enter your comment*
177

vimto,

10/11/2008 19:52:03
259. Sorry brownlie just been one of those sh-t days,your thinking of yorkshire.
178

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 19:54:06
# 251

Well the UK Government intends to take us into the Euro eventually anyway so its soething of a moot point.
179

brownlie,

10/11/2008 19:54:11
260 vimto

So did little Miss Moffat.
180

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 19:54:18
I see Aberdeenshire Scot's mentalist dribblings are up to their usual high standard.

"Rufus's pee-stained pyjama obsession"

"one can only worry how awkward, sweaty and crotch-watching you are in person".

Whatever turns you on eh Ayrshire Scot?


181

Hamish Scott,

10/11/2008 19:54:45
#244
"Oh really? Which currency would this fairyland have, pray tell?"

The one most appropriate for the Scottish economy.

""If you might recall, a recent Governor of the Bank of England (Eddie George) said that..."

I don't recall. Sources and quotes please.""

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/198830.stm

First thing that came upon a google search but since it's the BBC you might accept that.


182

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 19:56:28
Couple of observations on the comments here:

Poverty. As long as poverty is officially defined as an income of a certain percentage below the national average it can never be eradicated.

State hand outs are below the poverty level and any party that relies on the votes of those on benefits relies on poverty to help keep them in power.

Smee considers London to be the centre of his universe. This entity cannot understand how others have a more natural affinity with the normal dynamics in life.

Btw, re the report. What else did you expect from Broon? Same old unionist bully-boy tactics against Scotland. Vote for us and we'll do you in for being dumb. Vote for someone else and we'll do you in for thinking for yourselves.

Keep going, Alex. This would probably never have seen the light of day had McConnell still been in power.
183

vimto,

10/11/2008 20:00:13
267. WHAT!
184

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 20:02:44
220 Aberdeenshire Scot,10/11/2008 18:59:10

"Rufus/ Stirling Sentibnel/Son Of/Bring Them etc
may I, out of concern for what little remains of your health, suggest that changing monikers is not actually a cure for your increasingly sick addiction to posting here 24/7".

As I had advised you previously, I only have one signon. Its only the weirdos on here that have multiple signons.

Isn't that correct?
185

brownlie,

10/11/2008 20:03:50
271 vimto

Sorry for being so obscure, gorgeous one, it just that I recall Little Miss Moffat, sitting on something, eating her Kurds and whey - mind you, it was a long time ago so maybe it was legal then.

I've just realised that "Whey" sounds like a north-eastern expression as in "whey, aye, man".
186

vimto,

10/11/2008 20:05:05
270. You are totally correctm due to the fact that Jack McConnell didnae want to make himself look like a total prat.
187

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 20:06:21
18# Fair points made by Sam. I noticed the spokesman for the SNP WHEN THEY WERE PACKING UP AFTER GLENROTHES was an Irish type person. Seems the Irish have been interfering in Scotland for a long time.
188

,

10/11/2008 20:06:26
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189

vimto,

10/11/2008 20:08:07
273. We don't talk like that in the Tees Valley,more of a cross between Durham and Yorkshire.
190

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 20:09:22
274, poor man's pepsi, had McConnell not wished to make himself look like a total prat he would have stood as the leader of the Labour MSPs in Holyrood.
191

,

10/11/2008 20:10:06
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192

vimto,

10/11/2008 20:10:36
278. Why?
193

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 20:11:59
re 278. And there was me thinking he was the leader of Scottish Labour.
194

,

10/11/2008 20:15:09
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vimto,

10/11/2008 20:15:12
281. But the guy lost,apart from which you should only have salmond once a week!
196

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 20:15:19
209# Was that one of the SNP slogans. Release your potential. Slogan after slogan.
197

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 20:16:02
Talking of prats, where's that Smee? He seems to think that all countries linked to one currency will suffer the same fortune/misfortune.

Advice to people - don't get this person as your financial adviser.
198

Churchill W.,

10/11/2008 20:18:39
Nikostratos # 120

That should be of interest to the authorities at Heriot Watt University, that the infamous mummys boy "The Spook In Leith" is using departmental resources for his personal snooping and snitching. I doubt any half-competent techie individual there would have any problem identifying the snoops, sorry "Spooks," abuse of his personal email account either.
A single phone call tomorrow should ensure that the "Spooks" university career is suitably truncated.
199

,

10/11/2008 20:20:05
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200

,

10/11/2008 20:21:30
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201

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 20:26:35
288Er, Rufus. You appear to be the most prolific poster from the dawn chorus to the swansong.

Looks like shift work in the zombie zoo to me.
202

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 20:26:50
287#. Release your potential. Independence!!! in Europe. Make the slogans sensible if they are really required.
203

,

10/11/2008 20:27:19
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Alan Reid,

Ringkobing 10/11/2008 20:29:37
288, You are pathetic, why don't you toddle off somewhere, please.
205

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 20:30:28
272#
Dear Mr Rufus T firefly,
Aberdeenshire Scot has convinced himself you and I are one and the same. I am delighted, as a new contributor to these columns to be mistaken for a legend like yourself. I have followed your comments over a number of weeks and am delighted that others might think my humble remarks might have eminated from a genius like yourself.
206

Media 1,

cape town 10/11/2008 20:30:53
People of Scotland
The time has come for all of us to unite under the flag of the union.
There will be many along the way who will fill your ears with anti English drivel veiled as a passion for Scotland, but such people are interested only in control, not freedom.
True freedom has already been won people, it was won by our forefathers under the flag og the union and it is our duty to pay homeage to these brave men and women by saluting the flag that was so dear to their hearts.
They were no less Scots because they saluted the union flag of Britian and the St Andrews cross within it, they were no less Scottish because they stood side by side with men from England, Wales and N.Ireland, no less Scottish at all, and dont let any self opinionated nationalist nutter tell you otherwise.
Scotland is great, she is Great Britain and more , she is majestic and glorious and stunningly beautiful, she is also part of the union and we must respect that.

Let us salute Scotland - Let us salute Britain! Let us salute our United Kingdom freedoms. all of them!
207

,

10/11/2008 20:32:20
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208

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 20:37:21
294 Media 1,cape town 10/11/2008 20:30:53
"People of Scotland
The time has come for all of us to unite under the flag of the union."

Thought you meant the Union of South Efrica for a moment.

Laptop on the porch moment is it, Media 1? Or are you back in the Colonies of Stockbridge? G&T's all round, Schwanzkopf?

209

Media 1,

cape town 10/11/2008 20:38:46
Whats has become the most common nationalist sentence?

"We dont hate the English, we respect them" hahahaha

That's like Palestinians saying they repsect Mossad..When you paint yourself as Anti English Nationalist nutters it's always going to be difficult to convince people you have changed -
Nationalist political correctness at its dire best "we dont hate the English" AYE RIGHT hahahahahaha
210

Media 1,

cape town 10/11/2008 20:40:23
Jock

Ek sit en skryf net n bietjie met my chommies ek se -
211

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10/11/2008 20:42:31
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subrosa,

10/11/2008 20:44:42
# 145

There are many people who think as you do. My opinion is that the SNP ought to think about letting people know the result of their 'National Conversation'. To keep it in the bag right now perhaps isn't the right way forward. It can always be promoted as research again - unlike Westminster who seems to announce 5 policies a day and only around 1 in 50 comes to anything at all.
213

subrosa,

10/11/2008 20:48:08
#293

Rufus a legend? I nearly choked on my mince and tatties there.

That nickname has only been posting a matter of a very few weeks. You're obviously a pal of his or the fire on the pier made you redundant.

You're not one of the Brenners are you? Thought not. Although they were tory they had sense.
214

brownlie,

10/11/2008 20:51:34
286

How are the mighty fallen! The once great Winston Churchill turns into a "snitching" grass!!
215

subrosa,

10/11/2008 20:52:25
# 294

How much were you paid for that propaganda?

You should feel sad that you have such little respect for the land of your birth (that is if you were born in Scotland).

You should also feel sad that your intelligence doesn't permit you to look at the whole picture and only see the portrait.

In fact you should be sad, because you are condemning generations of Scots to paying off the present labour UK government's financial debts.

I really do despise people who are quite happy to pass on the illegal and purely political actions of governments - of whatever country.


216

brownlie,

10/11/2008 20:55:15
298 Medusa 1

I understand that Mossad and the Palestinians kill each other if they can - can you give examples of the nationalists doing the same to the English, or indeed, vice versa.
217

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 20:59:47
302# Subrosa,
Not one of the Brenners,Incidentaly the Michaels own the pier now. Regarding Rufus, I like his comments,I am an unashamed Unionist, and as Voltaire said we all have a right to express our views. Ultimately in a democracy the majority view should prevail. What the heck ,this column is good fun, and we all get a chance to let of steam.
218

brownlie,

10/11/2008 21:03:41
307 Son of ....

"unashamed Unionist" - is there another kind of unionist?
219

,

10/11/2008 21:04:09
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220

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:06:18
302 subrosa,10/11/2008 20:48:08
#293

"Rufus a legend? I nearly choked on my mince and tatties there.

That nickname has only been posting a matter of a very few weeks."

Subrosa I have been on here for many months!
221

,

10/11/2008 21:07:35
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222

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 21:07:52
The National Conversation was another classic SNP comedy sketch. I thought they meant a gaggle of women gossiping doon the steamie.
223

brownlie,

10/11/2008 21:08:21
310 Red-face

Of course you have - but not as Rufus T Firefly!
224

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:10:35
293 Son of one of Stirlings finest,Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 20:30:28

272#
"Dear Mr Rufus T firefly,
Aberdeenshire Scot has convinced himself you and I are one and the same. I am delighted, as a new contributor to these columns to be mistaken for a legend like yourself. I have followed your comments over a number of weeks and am delighted that others might think my humble remarks might have eminated from a genius like yourself"

Hi Stirling, the guy is clueless though as you and I know. I have one sign on, why would any rightminded person want more?

Aberdeenshire whatever he is tonight has multiple sign ons. Add to that his worrying fantasy about my "Pee stained pyjamas", all I can say is BE CAREFUL AND KEEP YOUR DISTANCE!
225

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:11:43
Everybody, SSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Gordon Browns speech is live on Sky from the Lord Mayors banquet.
226

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:15:03
"312 The Maltese Falcon,Malta 10/11/2008 21:07:38
#309 Rufus T. Firefly

Just back from the bar, now is it today or is it tomorrow or is it yesterday ?"

Neither, it is tonight.
227

brownlie,

10/11/2008 21:15:30
319 Col.Blimp

Yes, but collaborating with Nikos - Clementine must be turning in her urn.
228

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:16:57
The world today can be a daunting place.

It is easy to retreat into the responses of yesterday.

We are in the midst of economic transition to a new global age.
229

brownlie,

10/11/2008 21:17:08
321 Red-face

"Neither, it is tonight" - see, you can tell the truth if you really, really try!
230

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:19:16
"320 The Maltese Falcon,Malta 10/11/2008 21:13:42
#317

That is a shame because we don't get sky 1 on Malta, is it on the tranny ?"

Yes but only on the AM bandwidth channel 2.
231

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:21:04
Brownlie, but I do tell the truth!

Some people just cant handle the truth!

232

brownlie,

10/11/2008 21:22:20
326 Red-face

Cherish the truth, clasp it to your bosom for it is in virgin territory.
233

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 21:23:51
319# I am a British Scottish Collaberator. Any particular penalty you would wish to impose.
234

IainGlasgow,

10/11/2008 21:24:40
# 298

What of the SNP's 2 or 3 English MSPs (including a Minister) and probably a good few councillors as well? Do they despise their own kin? Do the rest of the SNP despise them?

235

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 10/11/2008 21:30:04
328, Shamus. Any opinion on the story above?
236

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 21:30:34
316 #
Rufus T Firefly,
I guess that Aberdeenshire Scot should not be despised for his soiled underwear prediliction , after all, God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. I am leaving the virtual world of the Scotsman, and going out for a couple of pints of foaming ale, so goodnight, and farewell.
237

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:34:26
329 The Maltese Falcon,Malta 10/11/2008 21:24:30

I never realised you were the 'pee stained pyjama boy'.



238

Rufus T. Firefly,

10/11/2008 21:36:51
333 Son of one of Stirlings finest,Weston S Mare 10/11/2008 21:30:34

Yes Good night. I am off too.

I will leave the Pee Stained Pyjama boy to converse with himself under his multiple ids.
239

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 21:40:31
332# Yes do you. I prefer Westminster to impose taxes. Moreso on the rich. That is not going to happen. It would not happen if Salmond had the power. It would seem I will not have my preference either way.
240

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10/11/2008 21:43:51
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Conan the Librarian™,

10/11/2008 21:47:13
Good Evening Abe, Col.

Col, did you see AM2 being scared of you?
242

,

10/11/2008 21:48:45
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,

10/11/2008 21:54:28
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Conan the Librarian™,

10/11/2008 21:54:48
341
Are you trying to go flyfishing with him?

343
http://www.scottishunionist.com/2008/11/these-people-scare-me.html
245

,

10/11/2008 22:04:10
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Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 22:15:15
339# I was not aware that Scotland had a coat of Erms. I will keep my British passport. My dotage will not end in any so called christian home. You wil never know where you will end up Blimp. It will be the End Blimp with or without whatever crest is on your passport.
247

,

10/11/2008 22:21:11
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248

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 22:38:28
350# If John Smith is turning in his grave he must have been buried alive. So there is hope for Labour.
249

karinxxx,

10/11/2008 22:59:19
col of course he scares easily......

hes a unionist.......

they are all cowardly custards. They do not face the future with bravery or ambition.
250

Shamus,

Glasgow 10/11/2008 23:37:45
353# You are running out of verbal. And that is acceptable in our British Democracy.
251

Conan the Librarian™,

11/11/2008 00:01:34
354
Running out of verbal?

I blame Gerund.
252

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 11/11/2008 00:02:53
Don't worry about the labour party's calman 'submission', who else is? Assigned taxes - the question is why some and not others? Give us our money. taxation, representation, nation.
253

Marian,

11/11/2008 09:17:30
Scotland has to find a way out of being dragged down with the sinking ship as the economic recession takes hold of the UK.

The Scottish National Party policy of lowering taxation on private businesses and VAT cuts will stimulate and sustain faster growth for the Scottish economy which in turn will generate more tax receipts which will make the tax cuts self-financing.
254

Marian,

11/11/2008 10:15:32
The current New Labour led UK government in Westminster have failed us miserably.

Scotland desperately needs a jolt. One of the best things to have happened in the last 50 years is the independence debate which sets us all thinking and talking about the future, rather than dwelling on the past or whingeing about the present.

The fact is there is something seriously screwed up with the Scots economy, when roughly half of the working population are employed by the state and large chunks of the urban population are on state benefits of one kind or another.

New Labour does not appear to understand that devolution as it is designed and practised is never going to be accepted by the Scots. They want us to simply accept and copy unquestionably the economic model they have adopted for England and they don't have any separate plans uniquely tailored for improving Scotland's economy to ensure that Scots may prosper and from that point of view they have not placed Scotland first.

Gordon Brown of New Labour simply wants us to accept more of the same failed economic policies that he has tailored to keeping happy the speculators and financiers of Western Europe's most centralised economy which is based in the City of London.
255

Ewan Oosami,

12/11/2008 10:35:34
What a lot of inane drivel - if you posters don't have anything serious to say, if all you can do is let your single brain cells run amok and behave like children, why don't you just join a chat room and leave this space for serious comments.
Act your age not your IQ

 

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