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Sexist Labour Party members don't like strong women – MP

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Published Date: 24 November 2008
ANNE Moffat, the embattled MP, said yesterday that sexist opponents who did not like "strong women" were responsible for trying to force her out as a Labour candidate.
Ms Moffat's East Lothian Labour Party has been suspended by the UK Labour Party following a vicious civil war.

The focus has been a concert-ed campaign by some activists to try to get Ms Moffat deselected before the next election.

Local party members recently passed a no-confidence motion in Ms Moffat, claiming their relationship with her had broken down and that the MP had "brought the party into disrepute".

But Ms Moffat walked out of the meeting before the vote was taken – a vote which had already been ruled "unconstitutional" by Colin Smyth, the Scottish general-secretary of the Labour Party.

Local activists went ahead anyway and, as a result, all party business was suspended while UK officials investigated what had happened.

Yesterday Ms Moffat hit back, accusing her critics of being sexist and for attacking her because she is a woman.

She said: "There was a group of people who were quoted as saying, 'We will vote for anybody except that trade union woman'.

"The 'woman' bit I found more offensive than the 'trade union' bit, but that's a bit of a nonsense and maybe it's just something that a certain quarter in East Lothian don't like – and that is working with women, and particularly strong women, women who won't be controlled."

Asked what she meant by that, Ms Moffat replied: "I am my own person and there are some people in East Lothian who would like to dictate how a politician does the job. I do the job the best I can for my constituents and all party members, not just some individuals."

Ms Moffat has strong union credentials. She is a member of Unison and the TUC general purposes committee.

Indeed, it is understood that much of the local unhappiness about Ms Moffat stemmed from the union block vote which saved her from facing a full selection contest last year.

Ms Moffat has faced internal criticism for some time. Four years ago, she sacked three of her staff, provoking anger in the constituency; then faced accusations – dismissed by the authorities – that she had abused her Commons expenses.

All of this has led to a strong campaign by some local party members for her deselection – which she has resisted fiercely.

East Lothian is also the local party of Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray but he has avoided getting involved. "His taking a back seat is probably the right thing to do," said Ms Moffat.


PROFILE

ELECTED in 2001 as the Labour MP for East Lothian, 50-year-old Anne Moffat has always been a party loyalist at Westminster.

In 2004, it emerged she had claimed £40,000 in travel expenses in a year, more than any other MP.

In May 2007, the former nurse was criticised again, this time for comparing Alex Salmond to Adolf Hitler.

In May this year, she was attacked and robbed near her home by a gang of youths. She was knocked unconscious and had her jewellery stolen.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 November 2008 12:41 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scottish Labour Party
 
1

Castaway™ ,

24/11/2008 00:42:12
The Anne Moffatt reselection
2 branches voted for
3 branches voted against
1 branch was evenly split
On branch voting she lost 3-2
She was endorsed as the candidate as a result of the votes from union affiliates.
2

FrancesP,

24/11/2008 00:43:12
That's such an easy excuse, isn't it - "they don't like me coz I'm a woman'. So much less trouble than showing your commitment to internal party democracy, treating your local party with respect, and being held to account by them when it is justified.
3

lulach mac gille coemgain,

24/11/2008 00:59:45
Sorry ? Did she just say something ?
4

,

24/11/2008 01:01:11
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5

,

24/11/2008 01:15:35
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6

Vivas,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 01:18:25
Strong woman ?

Didn't the (ahem) legendary "untouchables" relieve her of some bling in broad daylight a few months ago.... And just how is that investigation going anyway ???
7

DouglasT,

24/11/2008 01:22:22
All this squabbling within the Labour party while taking orders -and coin - from London has an uncanny resemblance to the 'lords and nobles' who sold Scotland's freedom in the time of Wallace. Guess Mr Gray and co would not have been sympathetic to William Wallace.
8

Scunnert,

24/11/2008 01:27:23
Scotsman says:

East Lothian is also the local party of Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray but he has avoided getting involved. "His taking a back seat is probably the right thing to do," said Ms Moffat.

The Herald says:

MP drags Gray into Labour's civil war
Posted: Saturday November 22, 2008, 23:58

THE CIVIL war inside Iain Gray's local party exploded last night when the area's MP accused the Scottish leader of "making friends" with "bullies" who were trying to throw her out of the seat.

Anne Moffat, the East Lothian MP since 2001, aimed several digs at Gray for not backing her in a feud with local activists who had tried in vain to deselect her last year.

Moffat said Gray was close to a group of people she described as "bullies", "cowards" and "nasty people".
9

Castaway™ ,

ex Prestonpans 24/11/2008 03:28:37
The problem is the branch voting v trade union affiliates voting.
How many trade union affiliates can/took part in this voting ?
Can the trade union affiliates votes always outvote the branch votes ?
Moffat was only saved by the intervention of trade union affiliates, including one in Fife, whose block votes outweighed the views of party activists

Labour yesterday rejected local calls for East Lothian MP Anne Moffat to put herself up for reselection on the basis of one-member one-vote.
Ms Moffat issued a defiant statement insisting: "This nonsense is a futile attempt by a small number of retired individuals, who no longer hold any influence, to bully and undermine both the East Lothian Party and myself." Aug 28 2007
But it was the branches who voted against her 3-2 with the largest branch in Prestonpans being evenly split not really a small number of retired individuals.

East Lothian is among the biggest and most wealthy constituency parties in Scotland and it was from its impressive club in Prestonpans that Iain Gray launched his leadership campaign this year.
Iain Gray launched his campaign to succeed Wendy Alexander as Scottish leader in Prestonpans Labour Club, and raised £4240 of his £7260 fighting fund from the club (£1,500), the EPCLP and its branches.
10

donald,

glasgow 24/11/2008 04:52:54
Now we know who mugged Little Miss Muppet
11

,

24/11/2008 06:55:32
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12

Colkitto,

River Clyde 24/11/2008 07:31:21
Out jogging with expensive jewelry....knocked unconscious by neds...but the strange thing is they don't nick her mobile phone. I would have thought a mobile phone would be more of a prize to them than a pair of earrings...
13

MelbourneScot,

Melbourne 24/11/2008 07:37:34
Interesting isn't it that when the term 'strong women' is used, it's often used to describe backstabbing, big mouthed females with personality issues and few personal skills. True strong women, like strong men have good judgement, high personal integrity, good relations with others (of both gender) and are unafraid to speak out when they see injustice.
14

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Tram City 24/11/2008 07:39:11
come independence Anne Mooofet won't even be a note in the history books. her and gray are nobodies,totally irrelevant in the scheme of things
15

eric,

24/11/2008 07:46:59
Women always pull the sexist card when they cant have own way,it will be tears next when this doesnt work.
16

,

24/11/2008 07:56:24
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17

TommyAtkins,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 07:59:30
More Labour in fighting is just what is needed.
It is not as though the Labour party does not have enough problems of its own making already.
18

Roy,

24/11/2008 08:19:47
I remember overhearing some Labour Holyrood hopefuls in 1998 discussing the selection for the first Holyrood elections the following year. These guys was 'suits', definitely NuLabour - the gist of their conversation was that they didn't have branch backing for their candidatures, but it didn't matter because they 'had the union votes'.
19

Stephen101,

Get a new advisor 24/11/2008 08:29:05
They don't like a 'strong woman' - my ar*e. They don't like people who are at it. You see her expenses???

Best bet Anne, get John Lindsay on your team. You know the ex Chief Exec of East Lothain Council. He knows how to milk the system big time, and get away with it. He could larn you a thing or 2 Anne. You are just too unsubtle, which is not the same as strong.
20

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 08:51:30
If Anne Moffat truely believes she is in the right and the people will vote for her she should stand as an independent.
21

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 09:04:29
"In May this year, she was attacked and robbed near her home by a gang of youths. She was knocked unconscious and had her jewellery stolen."

should read:

"In May this year, SHE CLAIMED THAT she was attacked and robbed near her home by a gang of youths. She INSISTS THAT SHE was knocked unconscious and had her jewellery stolen."

22

Fettes,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 09:07:37
What exactly did she do to bring the Labour party into disrepute ? Perhaps she actually represented the voters.
23

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 09:10:30
21-connaughtboy-It is so good to hear from someone who has such first hand experience that you can refute her claims. You must find time to give your evidence to the police to clear up this sorry episode.

24

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 09:13:19
"In May 2007, the former nurse was criticised again, this time for comparing Alex Salmond to Adolf Hitler"

What a class act Moffat is. She and Iain Gray deserve each other.
25

Kornelius,

Aberdeen 24/11/2008 09:22:51
Anne Moffat is like Harriet Harm-men! They are both against men.
Anne you claim that you are being forced out by men that do not like strong women, there is a difference my dear. You are strong in your biased and extreme views and you need to the decent thing and fall on your sword.
Let me remind people of some of her views:

"I am sure that my right hon. and learned Friend will agree that Fathers 4 Justice does its case absolutely no good by engaging in the thuggery and ridiculous actions that are now taking place. Will she and the rest of the House condemn it and say that it is never going to get its way if it behaves in such a vile manner?"

Anne, you are so out of line! Your system that prevents children from continuing to have both of their loving and devoted parents in their lives post separation is "Vile" and is "Thuggery" not the fathers that are trying to remain a loving and devoted parent for their child.

You need to retract your words please and apologise to all the separated children right now.
26

TWC,

24/11/2008 09:23:57
The real problem is this is how New Labour operates in Country as well as the Branches.
This is what shocked me, I thought when Brown came it would all get better, in fact it got worse.
27

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 09:40:25
#23 Warden.

What on earth are you gibbering on about?

"Refute", "evidence" ?

Until someone is brought to justice for this alleged mugging, we have nothing but Moffat's accusation.

Understand?
28

,

24/11/2008 09:40:25
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29

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 09:51:28
#23 - Are all the zaNu-Liebour grownup spin-doctors off today that they have to put you up instead? The truth of the 'alleged mugging' is the talk of the Steamie down the 'pans and in the East Lothian Kooncil Kremlin (P'pans Labour Club) That's why the police 'enquiry' was written off on day one and a political gag applied.
30

,

24/11/2008 09:55:05
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31

Jimmy Le Pie,

24/11/2008 10:04:19
Has London's puppet, Iain Grey not got anything to say on the story??

He is leader of New Labour Sleaze and Corruption in the Scottish Parliament and always has plenty to say on everything else??

And these clowns are destroying Scotland with impunity!!
32

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 10:05:12
#30 Thomas the Tank

What are the rumours surrounding the alleged mugging. I would love to hear them.
33

Alan B,

24/11/2008 10:05:45
Her whole attitude is pathetic. When a woman, who is obviously not very good, claims distrimination and sexism when she is brought to account for her performance as an mp, she brings the whole sexism issue into disrepute. Making allegations like that are not to be used lightly because you are failing and to cover up for your own inability. As an mp and someone in a position of power and responsibility playing this card it is a disgrace. She should be run out the labour party for such behaviour which is sick.
34

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 10:21:50
No. That is not correct.

Maybe it is the case that some members of the labour party doin't like STUPID women who come across as beligerant and self-opinionated.

I saw this woman's performace on telly last night and it was painful to watch. Never before have I heard such a big-headed fool with such a large chip on her shoulder. Get rid of the lot of them.
35

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 10:39:20
#33 - Don't want to get moderated or get a letter from Sue, Grabbit & Runne, WS, but, to coin the two Bards, think 'favours secret, sweet, and precious' followed by 'hell hath no fury . . '!
While that might all still be scurrilous rumour, it's a fact that Plod has been deafeningly silent on the 'untouchables'.
36

Matt there,

Somewhere 24/11/2008 10:40:34
"I am my own person..." Acctually often means this:

Self-opinionated, crass, boorish, know-all.
37

,

24/11/2008 10:41:49
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38

Miss H,

24/11/2008 10:43:34
Pretty much the same thing happened to Margo MacDonald in that the local SNP members in Edinburgh lost faith in her and voted her so far down the regional list she was unlikely to be elected.

I am not a fan of Margo but have to admit she handled the situation pretty well but telling the SNP to stuff it and getting herself elected as an independent.

Strong, uncontrollable - yes that could be Margo. (Insufferable too on occasion).

Doesn't sound much like Anne Moffat though.

She should just stand down. If your local party does not support you that's the end of the road really.

39

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 24/11/2008 10:46:35
She needs to stop digging, she'll be in Australia soon.
40

Douglas,

Bathgate 24/11/2008 11:03:03
The Labour Party are missing a trick here. Strong women are great for bringing in the coal and digging the garden.
41

John S,

24/11/2008 11:08:26
Sweetheart Haselhurst
Droll Deputy Speaker Sir Alan Haselhurst flushed when addressed as a 'sweetheart' by East Lothian Labour MP Anne Moffat, left, in a debate. 'I have been called many things, but that was a first,' said married Sir Alan. The ardour of Mrs Moffat was undiminished. 'I just love you today,' she cooed back.

House of Commons debates-From Hansard-16 October 2008
“Mr. Deputy Speaker: I call Anne Moffat.
Anne Moffat (East Lothian) (Lab): Oh you are a sweetheart, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I did not think that I was going to be called-
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I have been called many things, but that was a first.
Anne Moffat: I just love you today, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
I congratulate the Secretary of State on his new job, but will he have the guts to tell the Scottish Executive that they cannot rule out nuclear power when it comes to security of supply?
Edward Miliband: I will not comment on how I regard you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, other than to say that I have the greatest of respect for you.
42

snecked,

Argyll 24/11/2008 11:21:07
The police "are not looking for anyone" as a result of the mugging allegations. Says it all, really.
43

john z,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 11:34:04
Shock horror!!! Labour party in Scotland taken under London control. The irony of it is truly remarkable.

If (and I use the term advisedly) Iain Gray IS the leader of Labour in Scotland then he should be involved. I can think of no other political leader who would do nothing while this is happening in their own constituency.

Of course we all know, Jim Murphy is now in charge of Scottish Labour, with orders coming direct from London. He's gone very quiet too - which is unusual for him.

Labour seems to be hell bent on self destruction. A failed party that created a failed economy.
44

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/ 24/11/2008 11:43:14
It is little wonder that male English Loyal Scottish Labour politicians are also Sexist as they are certainly feckless, liars and most of them have job security issues. Therefore they are quick to allow the Scottish people suffer, so that they can keep their English masters happy.

"Scottish Labour allow Scotland's Largest constituency to be run from London"

"LABOUR has suspended constituency business in East Lothian because of a row surrounding attempts to deselect the MP Anne Moffat. The development could potentially be an embarrassment for Labour's newly elected Scottish leader, Iain Gray, who is the MSP for East Lothian."

In a Independent Scotland "The Scottish Labour Party" could be a leading credible force that would help the English voters realise "left is best" and a swing to Cameron and the Conservatives will be even more damaging for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland, than the current Labour administration.

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/
45

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/ 24/11/2008 11:44:22
A Independent Scotland would more than likely have a "real" left wing Labour Government after Scotland's First Election. The difference would be the lack of back stabbing - cover up - lying - commands from South of the border. Working with "Smart Alex and the SNP" would be much easier if the Scottish Labour Party did not have to employ these underhand strategies.

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/
46

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

v 24/11/2008 11:45:16
In a Independent Scotland, Scotland's 59 MP's would not have to share an eleventh of the political table with other Countries decision makers.

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/
47

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 24/11/2008 11:50:22
Time for the MP to put up or shut up.

She should name names and show us the facts, if she has any.

Mind you this is pretty normal fare for a Labour constituency.
48

Millerman1,

24/11/2008 11:53:15
41#

Troll from the Herald
49

Prester John,

Pots_n_Pans 24/11/2008 11:55:22
The issue of the alleged assault and robbery is an interesting counterpoint to the other claims she has made about receiving death threats and threatening graffiti.
50

,

24/11/2008 11:55:27
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51

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 24/11/2008 11:55:31
53 Yawn.
52

,

24/11/2008 12:02:33
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53

Alan B,

24/11/2008 12:03:00
#Rulesbutnotrulers

Why would the snp not exist after independence?

How they evolve is a different matter but particularly with pr in scotland then that would support more than a 2 party system.

54

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

24/11/2008 12:08:26
#57 Rulesbutnotrulers

Read this document and find out for yourself?

http://www.oilofscotland.org/TheNationalConversation.pdf
55

TWC,

24/11/2008 12:14:58
57 Rulesbutnotrulers,New Labour won't exist after the election, unless they have some policies they haven't yet told us about.
The whole parety are similar to the poodles we get as posters here anti everybody else's ideas or people but PRO nothing except their Labour party.
56

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/ 24/11/2008 12:16:33
#57 Rulesbutnotrulers,

The SNP have identical policies to the Liberals with the exception of Independence ?

As a political force the main aim is Independence, however they also fight for what is the best for the Scottish People, not an easy task when you up against the might of Westminster !!!

Should the SNP disband after Independence? No as they would have to fight along side the other Scottish parties to stop Westminster being silly bug-gers over what is Scottish, and what is English !

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/
57

Millerman1,

Ex snp Voter 24/11/2008 12:17:55
55#

Why not use your Herald name?

36#, 55#,

OCD posters from the Herald, different user names same psih.

I wonder were LA, Wardog and my old pal Melanthios are?.lol he haw he haw

GOTCHA!
58

,

24/11/2008 12:19:42
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59

Teamdroid,

24/11/2008 12:23:55
Let me get this straight - an MP who remains the candidate thanks to Trade Unions, against the wishes of her constituency, is describing the people in the constituency association as "bullies"?

Pot, kettle?

I believe the Sunday Herald were originally going to headline their story as "Labour Party organisation into a nest of vipers". However that was vetoed as being more obvious than "Water is Wet".
60

Millerman1,

24/11/2008 12:25:17
64#

I am my old pal, this is my name, John Millar from Buckie.
61

Farmernot,

24/11/2008 12:50:25
Belittled Miss Moffat sat on a tuffet eating her curds and whey hey hey........then she fell over hitting a bolder and cried "I've been mugged today !!!!!!"

Yes she was out of her face on a freebie....fact !
62

Millerman1,

24/11/2008 12:53:18
64#

I also used to stay in Falkirk, Hillhoose(next door to scunnert) and Govanhill before it became a third world hellhole were English is no longer spoken
63

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/11/2008 12:58:46
I have seen at first hand how sexist certain elements within the Labour Party can be. Usually though iit is the Trade Union element that has this neanderthal attitude not the CLP. Therefore I have a strong doubt that the trade union-backed Anne Moffat is facing such sexism.

I think it is much more likely to be the case that the CLP have seen at first hand that she is a complete numptie - a loose cannon they could do well without.
64

IainA,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 13:02:14
Like most political parties in Scotland, labour is like a small group of green blazered golf club members. Bigoted, predjudiced and opinionated, rubbishing anyone who disagrees with them and divvying up the prizes between themselves.

Oh, by the way, please don't think I'm singling out the labour party. The Conservatives, SNP and damn near every other party in Scotland are as bad. Scottish politics today seems to exemplify the cult of the small minded, elevating pettines and vindictiveness to an art form. It's a shame, given some of the great politicians, political thinkers and activist we have produced in the past.

I suspect that there probably isn't much to choose between Anne Moffat and her detractors. To me, this business reads like the "20th century literary novel" - a small group of deeply unpleasant people, being deeply unpleasant to one another in high flown language.
65

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/11/2008 13:06:20
#48 "If (and I use the term advisedly) Iain Gray IS the leader of Labour in Scotland then he should be involved."

Even if the CLP were not suspended Gray is not allowed to make any comment. In the Labour Party Rule Book (http://labs.labour.org.uk/membersnet/uploads/e513d08a-db06-eb04-e5fb-6f70d11993ca.pdf) - chapter 19 Appendix III Section R Clause 9 it states:

"Only designated CLP officers will be authorised to issue statements to the media about any aspect of the selection procedure"

I think it is more a case that Labour any of the Constituency Labour Parties - CLPs from all parts of the UK have been suspended in the past - nearly always to do with a selection/re-selection campaign. Trust me - but in many cases the suspensions are quite justified!!

66

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/11/2008 13:07:35
#74 Should have read "I think it is more a case that Labour does not trust any of the Constituency Labour Parties"
67

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 13:41:17
28-connaughtboy-I think you are having trouble wrestling with the concept of “innocent until proven guilty”. You might even be surprised to find out this stretches to all parties involved.
For those who find common sense to be gibbering, connaughtboy, this means Anne Moffat is innocent until you or anyone else can front up with the evidence disputing her claims.
Understand?

68

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 13:52:16
#76 Jeez Warden, you can't even get that right. Mis-quoting a legal concept is, for you, par for the course.

Here's a hint for you:

Is a person, who deliberately kills someone, guilty of murder when he commits the act OR when he is found guilty in a court of law? Think carefully before answering !
69

Teofilio Cubillas,

24/11/2008 14:07:32
#76

So questioning whether an elected Member of Parliament has made a false allegation of robbery to the police in order to cover up her personal shortcomings is 'gibbering'?

Good job you're not a journalist. Richard Nixon would still be President of the USA, Jeffey Archer, Jonathan Aitken and Mike Watson would all be in government.
70

Stickman,

24/11/2008 14:28:20

So, Anne reckons that people are against her due to sexism? Isn't the fact that many find her to be a rather unlikeable, useless, and perhaps dishonest, individual enough?
71

Big Carbon Footprint,

East Lothian 24/11/2008 15:05:22
I'm with you stick man, she is useless very rude and not striking as the most honest character, however this last point could be said about most of the Labour MPs

What she has actually done for East Lothian is beyond me and I live here!!!
Instead of championing the causes of this constituency in Parliament she took the time to call Alex Salmond a Nazi, what a waste of rations this one really is.

No Anne men are not disliking strong women, they are disliking incompetent shady characters who give decent female politicians a bad name.
72

Scunnert,

24/11/2008 15:11:42
How Anne Moffat voted on key issues since 2001:

Voted against a transparent Parliament.

Voted very strongly for introducing a smoking ban.

Voted strongly for introducing ID cards.

Voted a mixture of for and against introducing foundation hospitals.

Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.

Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.

Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.

Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.

Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.

Voted moderately for the hunting ban.

Voted moderately for equal gay rights.

Voted moderately against laws to stop climate change.



No wonder they want to get rid of her.
73

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 15:15:53
30-Thomas the Tank-Hearsay has as much currency in law as that vacant sign between your ears. This stops just any idiot with their knives out for someone coming forward with spurious allegations.


74

Big Carbon Footprint,

East Lothian 24/11/2008 15:19:49
Unfortunately I've been trying to vote for everyone else but there are still far to many stupid people who vote for this woman and the disastrous party.
Certainly in the past few years we are starting to see the nasty face of the Labour parties socialist/communist roots.
There is nothing 'cool' about the bloody star or CCCP emblazoned on clothes, when will people wake up to this, people are quick enough to protest about right of centre parties, but look at the facts what the 'New' Labour party stands for is far more sinister...
75

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 15:30:18
77-connaughtboy-In law they are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. They might be taken into custody if evidence comes to light which links them to said alleged murder. Someone could deliberately kill someone in self defence. This doesn’t automatically mean that person is a murderer.
76

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 15:34:36
78-Teofilio Cubillas-Questioning an allegation is one thing, proving it is another. The lack of evidence against Anne Moffat is what I am questioning.
77

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 15:40:37
I think it's a bit rich of you to lecture me on a concept that you don't seem to grasp yourself. The word "presumed" is all-important to this legal concept.

Anyway it is irrelevant to whether I believe Anne Moffat's story or not. Incidently, I do not believe her and remain unconvinced.
78

Scunnert,

24/11/2008 15:46:55
A Scottish Labour constituency is suspended and run from London England. The issue here is not whether Anne Moffat is a good person or a complete numpty, but the exposure of the lie of a "Scottish Labour Party". Clearly there is no such thing. It is the "English Labour Party" as Scots in East Lothian now know only too well.
79

Scunnert,

24/11/2008 16:46:22
Unionist parties and their commitment to Scotland:

Tory MSPs silenced on Holyrood tax
They are told not to speak to Calman Commission for fear of storing up trouble for David Cameron

tinyurl.com/6nsq62

This is the commission they helped set up and have members sitting on. But shhhh ... can't upset the English.
80

Arfur,

24/11/2008 17:38:25
Ehh no one wants ya luv.

#8 Scunnert - 'East Lothian is also the local party of Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray but he has avoided getting involved. "His taking a back seat is probably the right thing to do," said Ms Moffat.' - aye but Iain Grey was bypassed by London and has probably been told to sit down and shut his puss by London.
81

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/ 24/11/2008 17:48:15
It is little wonder that male English Loyal Scottish Labour politicians are also Sexist as they are certainly feckless, liars and most of them have job security issues. Therefore they are quick to allow the Scottish people suffer, so that they can keep their English masters happy.

"Scottish Labour allow Scotland's Largest constituency to be run from London"

"LABOUR has suspended constituency business in East Lothian because of a row surrounding attempts to deselect the MP Anne Moffat. The development could potentially be an embarrassment for Labour's newly elected Scottish leader, Iain Gray, who is the MSP for East Lothian."

In a Independent Scotland "The Scottish Labour Party" could be a leading credible force that would help the English voters realise "left is best" and a swing to Cameron and the Conservatives will be even more damaging for Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland, than the current Labour administration.

A Independent Scotland would more than likely have a "real" left wing Labour Government after Scotland's First Election. The difference would be the lack of back stabbing - cover up - lying - commands from South of the border. Working with "Smart Alex and the SNP" would be much easier if the Scottish Labour Party did not have to employ these underhand strategies.

Although the The SNP have identical policies to the Liberals with the exception of Independence ?

As a political force the main aim of the SNP is Independence, however they also fight for what is the best for the Scottish People, not an easy task when you up against the might of Westminster !!!

Should the SNP disband after Independence? No as they would have to fight along side the other Scottish parties to stop Westminster being silly bug-gers over what is Scottish and what is English !

http://www.scottish-labour-party.co.uk/
82

Scunnert,

24/11/2008 18:46:11
"Sexist Labour Party members don't like strong women – MP"

English Labour Party Doesn't Like Vocal Scottish Constituencies - Scunnert
83

the.ally ,

max. 24/11/2008 18:52:21
Anne Mooffat is a disgrace trying the 'I'm a victim of sexism' ploy. She is a complete hypocryte, and her satire is showing; how can she be a 'strong woman' and fit the terrified meek female victim of a sexist act?

I'm surprised she hasn't gone to the police and elish angiolini to make a rape complaint. After-all anything constitutes rape in scotland nowadays as far as these radical feminists are concerned.

I see angiolini is going to prosecute a case herself; why? Maybe it's because her public profile needs a boost because she's seen as a radical feminist totalitarian bully who wants fathers out of families and society broken down so that she can criminalise the Scottish masses easier.

I'm really looking forward to her stage act, I'll be keeping a very close eye on her performances. I think she'll crash and burn because I think she's no good at being an advocate; let's see what she's got. And I bet a lot of the top lawyers will be watching her performances too! My advice is, don't expect any dazzling performances.
84

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 19:03:26
87-connaughtboy-A person being innocent until proven guilty already implies “presumed”. Presumed simple reiterates the point. I may have been remiss in trusting to your ability to understand without the reiteration, my mistake.
Anyway, it is only irrelevant to whether you believe Anne Moffat’s story if you circumvent the use of the concept in order to bend the evidence, or lack of said evidence, to your own ends.
85

the.ally ,

max. 24/11/2008 19:15:29
The saying 'innocent until proven guilty' does infer an eventual finding of guilt.

However, the correct saying 'innocent unless proven guilty' has no presumption of guilt, and does not 'lead' the jury to look ar find guilt.

We, as society, have to force these trougher megalomaniacs in public institutions to stop these totalitarian methods of controlling the masses. Don't allow the police, the politiicans, and the public institutions to 'control' our lives and society by using fear and scaremongering tactics that keeps us all down; it's a 'mushroom politics' thing, keep us in the dark while heaping shoite on us so that we keep funding these evil troughists.
86

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 24/11/2008 19:55:12
It sounds as tho' she is more worried about getting her snout dragged from the golden trough of plenty. Soor grapes perhaps? :0(
87

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/11/2008 21:23:29
#100 Warden

What a silly post. You are either too thick to understand my point or you are a troll.

Either way, you don't deserve any more of my time.
88

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 22:41:14
102-Col. Blimp­IV*-Which one was Eck and which one was Nicola. :)
89

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 24/11/2008 22:51:03
Why when I looked at the published photograph it reminded me of a "Lady of The Night" I saw down Leith way when I was last in Edinburgh.
90

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 24/11/2008 22:57:31
Can I please take it all back, I have just seen the photograph in the "Herald" it was definatly not anything like her, of course neither are the two photograpghs anything like each other, broken cameras or a mug shot from the long list of Edinburghs finest.
91

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 23:00:46
104-connaughtboy-Your point was amusing and obvious, if not a little simplistic to get my teeth into. I do so enjoy the insult from the frustrated.
The arrogance in your question, or should I say delusional arrogance, could not hide the fact you were baiting a legal question with a moral dilemma. Though at the same time regardless from which direction you come from the answer must be from the time of the original crime, if murder at all. Even at the trial the date of the incident is given.
92

Warden An' All, Reborn,

24/11/2008 23:10:08
106/107-Jeeemy-May I suggest that all in your excitement you were wearing rose tinted glasses before your encounter with your mystery Lady “of the night”, an over active groin will have that effect on those who actively pursue those types of nocturnal activities I am told.

Good night all.
93

,

25/11/2008 14:51:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

Number 6,

Germany 25/11/2008 15:41:15
Why are Liebour MPs or prospective MPs always so low grade?
95

theoneinthe know,

eastlothian 25/11/2008 19:49:20
hi all

well has not the last few days been exciting in anne moffats political career,many of us loyal party supporters in east lothian are now seeing the chickens come home to roost, the evidence in various tabloids and political programmes have shown to many that those alleged disillusioned party activists can now see the light at the end of the tunnel, what can i say she has continually driven wedges between friends,allowed herself to be surrounded by individuals whose only allegiance was, i will let you make your one mind up on this one

you just need to check brian taylors blogg over the last few day to realise how much bad feeling this women has caused time to go anne and quickly

as a loyal trade union member of unison,i have found this whole escaped hard to stomach,this is not about the gender of the individual this is about whether someone is capable of doing the job

2010 election anne moffat gone, nice pension,friends hiding for cover and all the last 30 years of labour party in east lothian gone and given over to our new beloved depute council leader mr stuart currie, a formal member of east lothian labour party trade union official has he not done well,god help us
96

,

26/11/2008 03:32:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

Big Geordie,

EDINBURGH 26/11/2008 10:36:53
114 Have the shift and full stop keys on your computer stopped working?

 

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