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SNP 'slapped down' over power talks with Norway

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Published Date: 17 August 2008
By Eddie Barnes
Political Editor
THE Scottish Government has been banned by Westminster from talking to Norwegian officials about radical plans to connect Scotland's electricity grid to the continent.
Scottish ministers were planning to meet their counterparts in Norway this autumn to discuss proposals to build a new electricity connector between Scandinavia and the UK.

The £2bn link would allow electricity to be transmitted to and from Scotla
nd and Norway, whichever country needed most power.

But Scotland on Sunday can reveal that the UK Government has now instructed its embassy in Oslo to make it clear to the Norwegian government that they are not to deal with the Scottish Government.

Labour ministers travelling to Norway next week are expected to ram home the message that all negotiations are to go through them, not Edinburgh.

Their actions led to a furious response from sources close to Alex Salmond last night who said that UK ministers were "undermining" attempts to build the grid and were behaving in a "ridiculous" fashion.

The row centres on a visit to Norway in October by the SNP's Energy Minister Jim Mather when he plans to meet his Norwegian counterpart to discuss the link.

E-mails sent by Whitehall officials and obtained by this newspaper show that a media report about Mather's forthcoming trip triggered an immediate response from the UK Government. One senior official from the UK Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR), John Overton, declared: "FCO (the Foreign Office] contacted me about that (Mather's proposed meeting] and I re-supplied the lines about this being a matter for UK ministers."

Overton added: "The article said that Jim Mather would meet Norwegian ministers to discuss in October so I suggested that our post in Norway should make sure that their opposite numbers were clear about UK responsibilities."

A spokeswoman for BERR last night said: "The generation, transmission, distribution and supply of electricity are reserved matters under the Scotland Act 1998, as are international relations. It is for the UK Government to take any decisions and deal with other countries in relation to those matters."

One UK Government source said that BERR's response should be considered as a "slap-down" to the SNP. The source added that the Norwegian government would be urged to ignore all approaches from the Scottish Government. UK officials say they are already examining whether an offshore cable will be required.

However, the Scottish Government last night said they would be pressing ahead with talks in Norway regardless.

A source close to First Minister Alex Salmond said: "BERR is proving to be the single biggest obstacle to Scotland fulfilling our renewable energy potential. Not only have they refused to act to counter unfair connection charges imposed on generators in Scotland over a period of years, now they are actively undermining the building of transmission systems."

The source added: "This memo consolidates BERR's reputation as the worst department in the UK Government – a failure as far as Scotland is concerned. The UK Government rakes in oil billions but gives nothing in return. It is the department that likes to say no to Scotland."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 August 2008 7:03 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

,

16/08/2008 21:24:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
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2

Grant,

Edinburgh, Scotland 16/08/2008 21:36:18
Are DBERR and Westminster so monumentally stupid? Clearly.

3

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 22:10:09
#1 #2

So you think the SNP Executive should breach the Scotland Act, do you?

This is a reserved matter. It's beyond their legal competence. End of story.
4

Brian S,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 22:14:32
Whether we opt for independence or a federal state. One thing is sure, things aren't going to stay the same. So Westminster can moan as much as they like.

I think the power cable is a great idea.
5

Grant,

Scotland 16/08/2008 22:25:43
#3 Well being a pedant, I don't see where it specifically states that Ministers can't discuss issues with other ministers of friendly foreign governments'. For this is exactly what that is. Indeed, I'm quite sure that Ministers in the Scottish Government frequently have discussions with foreign ministers on frequent occasions.

Sure, International relations are exempt, but the SNP Government are hardly applying for membership of the IMF or the United Nations Security Council.

I'm no Unionist, but clearly this issue is of extreme significance to Scotland, both economically and politically. Many Scots will see it that way too. And I doubt they will find Westminster picking constitutional fights with the Scottish Government especially endearing on an issue.

Indeed the smart money would be on DBERR welcoming such an issue and taking the lead in any subsequent negotiations in the spirit of partnership with the Scottish Government.
6

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 22:37:08
#5 Grant

The Scotland Act 1998 clearly states:

"International relations, including relations with territories outside the United Kingdom, the European Communities (and their institutions) and other international organisations, regulation of international trade, and international development assistance and co-operation are reserved matters."

Also reserved is:

"Generation, transmission, distribution and supply of electricity.
The subject-matter of Part II of the Electricity Act 1989."

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980046_en_14#sch5

The SNP Executive threatening to breach the Scotland Act can in no way be seen as "Westminster picking constitutional fights". It's the law. They must abide by it. End of story.
7

Brian S,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 22:39:53
It's the Scottish Government, get over it will you.

No wonder folk like me left Labour and the Lib Dems. I got fed up listening to what we were told we couldn't do. I love the fact that we have a Government that actually tells us what we can do when we put our minds to it.

8

Traquir , Alba,

16/08/2008 22:41:56
3 AM2,Scotland

I understand the Scottish Government is
merely exploring the prospects of a major
part of their renewable strategy from planning
application perspective which is totally within
our remit:)

I hate to inform you , but the current Scottish
Government will not be ordered about like
some Provence. The colonial and condescending
attitude of telling us who we can and can't speak to will
be treated with the contempt it deserves. Previously
Unionistas have got away with disgraceful behaviour like
forcing out Scottish fishing representatives to wait
in the corridor whilst their British superiors negotiated
on our behalf.

Unionists are so delusional they won't even
accept that the Scottish Government is now
called well the Scottish Government - instead
they just cry like babies that the rules imposed
on Scotland are not being obeyed to the letter.
Well I have only one thing to say to you guys -
hard luck get used to it :) Westminster will get
all the respect it deserves and that is not much
- with Scotland you need to earn respect not just
demand it like some colonial caste system.

Saor Alba
9

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 22:57:52
#8 Traquir

It's the law. Are you seriously advocating breaking it?
10

ailein,

Germany 16/08/2008 23:02:49
On the one hand, I'm inclined to agree with AM2, but on the other hand surely the Scottish Government would only be breaking the law if it tried to reach any kind of legally binding agreement with the Norwegian Government. The article just mentions a discussion of proposals.
11

,

16/08/2008 23:13:12
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12

Traquir , Alba,

16/08/2008 23:14:01
8 AM2, Scotland,

Correct I am not suggesting anybody break the
law well spotted,but as you will be aware with the law, and there
are Scottish and English variants ,much is open
to interpretation.

Given you feel strongly about Scotland even being able
to call her own Government a Government I suggest
you put your money where you mouth is and take
them to court for breaking the law. If you don't
have the courage of your convictions then I suggest
you stop being so petty and accept that the Scottish
Government is now known as the Scottish
Government irregardless of your or Westminsters
opinion. Should you decide to go to court I
suggest you be even handed for once and rectify
the breaking of the law via breaches to the
Act of Union:)
13

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 23:14:30
#10 ailein

Whether direct lawbreaking or mere conspiracy - I couldn't say, but I fully support the Government's efforts to prevent the Scottish Executive from going down this route. To my mind, nationalist grandstanding has for some time been threatening to drag Scotland into disrepute, and this just compounds that view.
14

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 23:17:44
#12 Traquir

Scottish Executive or Scottish Government - I'm not bothered and it's not the point.

But tell me: does your nationalism, which seems to see any obligation to adhere to supra-national legal obligations as "colonial and condescending", extend to rejection of EU treaties, NATO obligations and/or UN resolutions?
15

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 23:19:20
#11 Doonhamer

I can see that I'm destined to make no progress against attitudes such as the Law having no "relevance to the people of Scotland". I'll leave you to it. Bye.
16

Brian S,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 23:27:55
Some peace at last then..............
17

,

16/08/2008 23:30:59
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18

Traquir , Alba,

16/08/2008 23:33:00
14 AM2, Scotland

Interesting that you are "not bothered"
about the Scottish Government being now known
as the Scottish Government yet you continue to
refer to by an alternate name - looks to me and I
am sure others that apparently you are bothered.

If you bother to read my comments you will see that
I am suggesting that the law be interpreted to
allow the maximum flexibility to benefit the
needs of the Scottish people first and foremost.
You do realize that the Sovereignty of the
Scottish people is paramount, even the high heid
yin Brown signed an oath on that although he
broke that solemn oath to the Scottish people.
I am sure that you would not deny this fact in
your adopted country of residence ?
19

aedis,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 23:54:59
"International relations, including relations with territories outside the United Kingdom, the European Communities (and their institutions) and other international organisations, regulation of international trade, and international development assistance and co-operation are reserved matters."

Only seems to be applied when the SNP try and stand up for Scotland.

Scotland still promote Tartan Day in the U.S. Breach!!

And unilaterally decide to give aid to Malawi. Breach!!

The law is unworkable, unenforceable, and wrong and needs to be changed.

We should be free to talk to other countries purely as a right of freedom of speech.

I doubt the law would stand up in the European court if the SNP want to take it that far.
20

ThomasP,

17/08/2008 00:14:10
Typical example of Scotland being forced to follow what Westminister wants.

This will not benefit Scotland, only the coffers at Westminister.

21

,

17/08/2008 00:24:47
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22

subrosa,

17/08/2008 00:29:24
# 6 "End of story."

Oh no, indeed it's not. It's just the beginning.
23

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose 17/08/2008 00:55:55
The Law is whatever Scotland's sovereign Parliament cares to make it.
end of story.
24

ThomasP,

17/08/2008 00:57:56
I'd like to hear what the Unionists who feel that Scotland is capable of doing as she pleases while apart of the Union.

This situation clearly shows Scotland being unable to preform for Scotland and is left being dictated by Westminsister.
25

Oldnat,

17/08/2008 01:06:16
This story will play well in Glenrothes - especially combined with the Scottish Government acting to cut energy costs for Government bodies.

I can just see all the voters in Caskieberran clamouring to vote for Labour and higher energy costs.
26

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 01:23:29
AM2 various
Scottish ministers are accountable to the Scottish Parliament, UK departments are not their masters. If anyone tried to argue otherwise, they would have to take it to its logical conclusion, that the Scottish people aren't sovereign, which is not exactly an argument from realpolitik. The more the UK government try to act like that the more it turns people off, it's high-handed, imperious and conceited - that is why consistent headlines like 'slap down' and 'UK deals blow to Salmond initiative' actually have the exact opposite effect here of what you would hope for. We all understand what the terms of the Scotland act are, but the law doesn't mean anything until it's tested, until then it is your interpretation against anyone else's. I think it is ludicrous to suggest that they can't talk to officials in other countries - the law doesn't stretch quite as far as you would like. According to your suggestion when representatives of foreign governments come to Scotland all ministers of the Scottish Government would have to be quarantined in Edinburgh Castle for the duration - So no Jocular McConnell at Gleneagles then? It's a ridiculous over reaction.
Personally I think the signal that the Union was lost came on 23 April 2006 at 5.30 am when the 'UK theme' was broadcast for the last time on Radio 4. You might as well give up.
27

Senga Jean,

17/08/2008 01:36:10
AM2 is in a froth. The LAW he is talking about cannot be broken in the fashion of someone breaking the speed limit. A passive act like discussions with others cannot be a breach of the LAW or even be considered ultra vires. If the Scottish Government wished to make an international agreement then that would be ultra vires and a timely reminder that Independence is required. Yes indeedy ITS TIME.
28

Edward,

17/08/2008 01:38:42
The Labour Government in Westminster are now appear very petty and VERY vindictive to people outside the UK as well as in Scotland
Its strange that the Scottish Government both present and previous have been meeting an discussing various topics with the Norwegian Government
Examples being :
http://tinyurl.com/43fz8c
http://tinyurl.com/5tgvkh
29

The Answer,

Glasgow 17/08/2008 01:39:07
Maybe the so called "scottish ministers" should do something about the low employment rate of lazy scotch males!
Yorkshire and the Humber with a smaller population than scotland manages to have more males in employment than in the whole of scotland
30

Edward,

17/08/2008 01:41:43
John Overton = Rhyming slang for Pathetic little creep!
31

Edward,

17/08/2008 01:45:56
UK Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR)= The Union dividend
32

,

17/08/2008 01:46:47
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33

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/08/2008 01:57:00
What is the URL for AM2's Website. I need a good laugh.
34

PoI2,

17/08/2008 01:57:35
I have not read the Scotland Act but if it outlaws discussion then clearly the law is an ass.
In any case the substantial issue regards energy policy. Renewable elecricity generation fluctuates with the winds and tides so a high degree of interconnection is important. It allows export at times of excess generation and import at times of deficit. Sharing a connection with a highly stable and friendly country like Norway sounds like a great idea to me.
35

2Right,

On Location 17/08/2008 02:08:41
It's time we had our own say.

Well seen Labour still run Scotland
36

An Beal Bacht,

17/08/2008 02:13:21
What a bunch they are down in Westmin. They will do everything in their power to make sure Scotland never prospers. And the wee sook AM2's - maister kens best - attitude is sickening in the extreme.
37

weh,

17/08/2008 02:15:09
This article is, as you might expect from a "scots" paper, utter b...ocks!

The Scots will do what they like, irrespective of what london wishes!

We are on the cusp of independence after 300 years and the only thing that (might ) slow us is armed intervention by london!

If they do this it will end in tears -for them!
38

weh,

17/08/2008 02:53:58
AM2,
Scotland,UK 16/08/2008 23:14:30
#10 ailein

Whether direct lawbreaking or mere conspiracy - I couldn't say, but I fully support the Government's efforts to prevent the Scottish Executive from going down this route. To my mind, nationalist grandstanding has for some time been threatening to drag Scotland into disrepute, and this just compounds that view.


AM2-when we achieve our independence, you will be tried unde SCOTS made laws, and sentenced as befits ALL quislings who seek to undermine the Scottish state!

I suggest you apply for emigration NOW, as independence is NIGH-there will be NO mercy shown to TRAITORS of the Scottish State!
39

Traquir , Alba,

17/08/2008 03:12:40
33 - Ok if you want a good laugh here is
AM2s website - www. scottishunionist.com
Basically comes across as some bigotted,
conspiracy laden rats nest whilst of course
being sprinkled with liberal doses of jingoism
and Britishness. I recommend taking a stiff
drink before viewing:)
40

A Better Way,

Scottish Republic 17/08/2008 03:18:22
AM2 and the Hootsman once again showing where their loyalties lie.

Alex Salmond has the support and permission of the Sovereign Power in Scotland to do whatever it takes to provide cheaper and better power for ALL of the Scottish Nation.

He is the one who has proved time after time to be the Voice of Scotland and protector of Scottish Rights. He has proved that Scottish Pensioners are honoured and rewarded for their years of neglect from the Unionist Political Parties who saw Scots as nothing more than nuisance value, that gave them access to the Westmonster Trough.

NO More will we Scots Tolerate this level of betrayal and any who wish to continue to seek advantage at the expense of just one single Scottish Citizen, can go and take a jump into their English Land, and do what they want down there.

AM2 should be expelled back to his Northern Ireland rather than be allowed to enjoy the benefits his family receives from a generous Scottish Community. If he doesnt Respect the Scottish Nation, then he shouldnt be given the luxury of living off its back.
41

W Smith,

Middle East 17/08/2008 03:24:07
Westminster has not banned Salmond from taking action over Hanif!

So why doesn't Salmond, the annoying meddler, act?

Hoping the rest of us will forget about it then, eh?
42

Weegiewarbler,

Afloat in a boat 17/08/2008 03:28:02
#2 - AM2

Interesting note on "legal comptetence"
We respectfully submit the only political legal competence in the Isles of Great Britain at this time demonstrably lies in the present Holyrod administration.

Irrespective of formality or agreement - if the one creating an issue of decades (wastemonster) in reference to unfair drain on another nations resources then enhances the difficulty of that nation or it's people to effectively compete through lies and disinfomation (classifying of reports that are "politically sensitive" - per those 30 years in the past concerning Scotlands true potential with Scotlands energy resources) thereby creating an intrisically false basis for ANY referendum, and by utilizing the media and monarchy to the fullest of it's ability to - as we understand it - dissemiate misinformation - then that government or any successors in that party / regieme / country who do not put first the needs of the people who elect them lose the mandate and right to govern.

Now - the English (they do control it - wastemonster - after all) have had decades to explore this field of international relations.
Apparently they did not.
Apparently also like the spolied schoolchold they dislike being "Gazumped" by anyone with foresight and imagination.

We in Scotland should, and deserve to be, governed by a group with foresight and imagination - which is to say OURSELVES.

For three centuries we were the spark in the engine of the British Empire - to inherit the life expectancy of much of the East End?

We commend you your dedication to giving your next door neighbour all the vegetables in your garden, and hoping he will return enough for you to (at least) not starve.
Most of us, and we think our nation, can no longer afford such generosity if we are to protect the well being of our children and grandchildren.

Kudo's to Holyrood for it's innovation - At least it tries to help it's people while others would watch them starve or freeze.
43

donald,

glasgow 17/08/2008 05:36:12
Labour manages to ravage Scotland worse than the Vikings, who made no pretensions about it.
44

democracy,

Scottish Borders 17/08/2008 05:39:18
AM2,the only competent and innovative Government in the UK is the incumbent Holyrood one!
Westminster is increasingly becoming an irrelevance in Scotland, and even in the UK, while Holyrood are being proactive, deriving new ideas to improve all aspects of Scottish life or even British life if Westminster was able to say, "gosh that's a good idea we should adopt that"!

Instead they are too busy grandstanding and posturing to be effective as a government, all they care about is their perceived superiority and stamp their feet like spoiled little children, when another government within the UK shows any initiative, how utterly pathetic!!

If Westminster had any maturity at all, they would be saying, let's send both energy ministers to Norway and discuss possibilities like proper grown up politicians, instead of this, boo,hoo,this isn't fair, WE are the BIG GUNS and the piddling little Scottish assembly shouldn't even be here!
45

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 05:43:26
44 - Isore
Technically, the SNP already usurped governmental authority - in the 2007 election. They are operating in the space that exists between political legitimacy (which the SNP has in bundles at the moment) and constitutional levers (which they have evidently rather less of).
Scottish relations with Norway have never been particularly contentious (at least not recently, maybe in medieval times) so why now? They're only talking about developing economic relations and taking the initiative, it's not pure international relations. At the moment the UK government shares responsibility for UK external economic (and to a tiny extent political) relations with the EU. I'm afraid it's all a bit of a grey area, but not treason, that's hyperbole. Politics is what fills the grey area. If it was just down to the 'black and white' of the constitution, there wouldn't be nay need for politics. The question is "Why this story now?" - it might have something to do with Glenrothes...so who is scaring whose sheep here?
You could argue that the signing of the 1707 document was an act of treason, at the very least the British state is not exactly based on a democratically legitimate "founding act" (Mind you, how many states are?)
46

democracy,

Scottish Borders 17/08/2008 05:49:20
The article headline should read:

SNP Government "slaps down" Westminster's lack of foresight and ambition!
47

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/08/2008 05:54:18
AM2 You are the perfect example of exactly why WE SCOTS WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR UNION WITH england. You are as pathetic as the rest of your DIM WITS!!!!!!
48

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/08/2008 05:59:38
BERR, Jobs for the english boys, and try to keep those SCOTS in order. NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER. Your unionist days ARE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
49

,

17/08/2008 06:06:55
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50

,

17/08/2008 06:11:54
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51

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 17/08/2008 07:47:33
I don't see what the fuss is about, this link was dicussed years ago and knocked on the head. A link was also discussed with Iceland where we could have got as much renewable energy as we liked from geothermal springs and that was knocked on the head by Brian Wilson because he was in bed with the wind industry.
This is simply a jolly at taxpayers expense.
Wait until they see the price of a beer in Norway !!!
52

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/08/2008 08:04:19
Who is 43, no brain cell there, just another unionist. INDEPENDENCE MY BOY IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD. For my country of SCOTLAND at least, obviously not yours!!!!!!
53

Earman,

Dumfries 17/08/2008 08:33:26
It appears that a certain poster on this site has successfully deflected the real significance of this story down a legal sidestreet.

To me the whole point is this: In politics perception is all. The real meat of this story is that, regardless of legal issues, the people of Scotland will read, "WESTMINSTER SAYS NO TO SCOTS GETTING CHEAPER ELECTRICITY". Whether or not that is, in its minutia, absolutely correct matters not a whit. Why? Because perception is all.

This move by BERR is, in my opinion, one of the most damaging "own goals" recently scored by Westminster, and, on behalf of the people of Scotland, I thank them!
54

eric,

Lothian 17/08/2008 08:34:42
Laws are there to be broken.Life would be pretty Dull if we didnt,London is just hurting and licking its wounds.Do your best london .Strip Scotland of Everything and take your little unionists with you.The end result is still the same ,Independence is coming.
55

subrosa,

17/08/2008 08:44:53
Sunday Observer and Jim Wallace's comments:

http://tiny.cc/ddBig

I see he's going to write a weekly column. Would have thought his pension was enough.
56

yockel,

17/08/2008 08:53:55
Decision-discussion seem to be tws different things but to labour the only thing that matters, one is to be taken by Westminster while the other is not to be allowed.
57

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 08:56:13
#3 AM2

Of course they should and they will. My advice to the SNP Government is to press on regardless. Incidently AM2, you have become a troll.
58

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 09:01:41
#6 AM2

How would Westminster prevent this happening? When it does happen, what will the sanction be?

This is precisely the kind of issue the SNP should use to push the boundaries of devolution.

They certainly have the moral high ground on this.
59

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 09:04:42
The solution is clear for all right-minded people. If the Scotland Act is getting in the way of sensible policies, then it should be amended to suit the circumstances.

Maybe Calman will agree. Nevertheless, Norway is not a signatory to the Scotland Act and this project will proceed regardless.
60

Escoces,

Planet Earth 17/08/2008 09:05:41
So the democratically elected Scottish Govt maybe breaking the Law,i.e the Scotland Act,by having the audacity to speak to our neighbor, Norway, about a matter of great mutual interest. Oh dear, how sad, never mind. Time that some laws and the foreign legislative that drafted them went to paper shredder where they belong.
As for the tiny minded clowns that worship at the alter of the Union and Westminster, does someone pay you for this or do you just love being a (Gordon) brown nose?
61

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 09:08:25
#9 AM2

At least it isn't criminal law (think Iraq), and yes, to hell with this particular law. It will have the support of the Scottish people and that takes precedence over Westminster and the Scotland Act.

You are living in the past and events are overtaking you.
62

inkster,

17/08/2008 09:10:34
I am downgrading the UK Government to UK Executive.

You have to earn the title of Government.

Given a vote (and that is what legitimacy is about) I think that the Westminster Executive would fail that test.

The UK Executive - until it proves otherwise.
63

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:14:19
Scotland already has an international fibre optice cable link from Banffshire - Shetland - Foroe. Why not an interconnector to Norway ?
Sorry, forgot that the Faroese (population 55,000) put in that link !
64

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 17/08/2008 09:27:49
This is clearly one of the stupidest moves Westminster could possibly make in the run up to another by-election.

Voters will remember whose side Labour is on , and in this case it is clearly not Scotland.

More importantly does anyone imagine the Danes will be in any way impressed by this behaviour , they are not stupid either.

Win - win for the SNP again.

Once again Labour merely proves its own incompetence.
65

gus1940,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:28:57
Back of the net!

Another beautiful own goal scored by our colonial masters and another few thousand votes for The SNP.

Incidentally - what's happened to The Canute Commission - I haven't heard much about that since Wendy's demised.
66

Richardinho,

17/08/2008 09:29:47
The question is; Regardless of what the Labour party's interpretation of the Scotland act is, would we prefer these matters to be dealt with by the Scottish government or by bureaucrats in London?
I know I would prefer Scottish politicians, sitting in Scotland, answerable to us (not the South east of England) to be making these decisions.
67

Stepford Nat,

17/08/2008 09:31:34
There is clear solution - solar power. All that we need to do is put some panels in the vicinity of AS's rear end.

www.snp.org.uk - The futures bright, apart from a few skidmarks
68

Calum10,

17/08/2008 09:34:03
"SCOTLAND DENIED CHEAP ELECTRICITY BY LABOUR PARTY", that is the real headline.

The poposed £2billion grid tie up between Scotland and Norway would ensure cheap, on demand and secure electricty for both countries.

The deal would benefit business and would alleviate fuel poverty in Scotland.

The fact that the Labour party are opposed to this plan just highlights how out much they are tied to nuclear generation - an industry that is costly to buyild, heavily subsidised by the taxpayer and produces very expensive electricity.
69

inkster,

17/08/2008 09:34:25
Yawn FACT

the gordon brown executive currently has less votes than Iceland in the Eurovision Song Contest. It has threadbare legitimacy historically and politically. Certainly less than the ¨democratically elected Scottish Government.

Never never forget that.

70

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 09:34:37
THE Scottish Government should press on regardless..I should like to see Alex Salmond impeachmed and removed from office.

And then all snp supporters can man the barricades.probably not still they will sent out even more nasty comments.
71

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/08/2008 09:34:57
AM2 Various rambling posts

As the Defender of the Union and loyal subject of the Queen do you see yourself on a white charger fighting to the death for Queen and Union???
72

,

17/08/2008 09:38:54
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73

brusque,

17/08/2008 09:40:21
""FACT - this is a reserved matter and the Nats have no business wasting time, energy and money sticking their noses into it and attempting to grandstand for cheap political points""

I WANT the SNP to grandstand. I WANT the SNP to look at alternative renewable and sustainable energy sourses. I WANT the SNP to look after my interests and not those of Westminster namby pambies, who are so out of policies that they rake through the papers to see what Scotland are up to, and set in motion a plan to thwart it.

It's like Lard George Foulkes and his wee "summit" to discuss a "plot" against the SNP after Glasgow East.....malicious, jealous, petty and frantic sums NuLabour up.
74

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/08/2008 09:42:30
Imagine the cheek.

A Scottish First Minister putting the needs of Scotland first.

Would you class this as treason AM2??

A hanging offence perhaps???

You really are a buffoon.

75

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:45:28
This may, or may not, be a good idea but I suspect it's all about political posturing by the SNP (which, I don't blame them for, it's their raison d'etre)and should be seen for what its is. Who is going to pay for this great cable? If it's going to be a Scottish government venture then I suggest the money would be better spent on the new Forth Crossing, duelling the A9 or the A1. If it's not government then, as usual, it will prove a squabble over nothing (will Edinburgh and London fall out over the new Scottish space programme as well?) and the Westminster government should leave the SNP to look silly.
76

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 09:52:41
Seemingly the “Separatists” are once again getting above their station.

Holding talks with foreign Governments, whatever next!

This obviously goes to the core of what all right thinking Unionistas hold dear to their heart.

Give the “Seperatists” an inch on this one, and soon they will be speaking to the likes of the Irish Republic, Iceland and Denmark!

In order to preserve the integrity of the Union, the British should immediately start massing troops, tanks and artillery on the Border.

That will send a message to these law-breakers!
77

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/08/2008 09:58:21
#83

Are there any troops, tanks and artillery left??

Comrade Broon could use Trident missiles, though!!
78

BIG EYE,

Paisley 17/08/2008 10:05:14
The Union dividend strikes again!
79

TWC,

Ayrshire 17/08/2008 10:11:47
I fear the Union is finished, perhaps our share of the Trident replacement money will pay for the Scottish half of the cable.
I must admit it's a good idea.
80

the_figures_are _fudged,

Galashiels 17/08/2008 10:20:17
sm753 # 86

How typically narrow minded for a unionist.

It never even begins to occur to that great mind of yours that Scotland might be able to EXPORT eleectricity to Norway along this cable, as well as import it.

And THERE lies westminsters terror, that cheap renewable energy might go elsewhere than in their brown envelope stuffed pockets.
81

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 17/08/2008 10:26:07
Well folks I wouldnt worry about a piece of electric wire we wont need electric or gas if Russia keeps its promise and starts throwing its nuclear missiles around
the Human race will be gone in a mushroom cloud and Dust. as there will be no survivors so instead strt making your peace with family members that you have broken off relations with and wait for that big flash
82

brownlie,

17/08/2008 10:31:01
72 Stepford

A more feasible alternative might be to harness the steam coming out of Gordon's ears when he reads opinion polls or the hot air generated by Gordon's geysers.
83

Richardinho,

17/08/2008 10:36:18
It's ay 'dinnae dae this and dinnae dae that!' with the labour party.
I prefer the SNP's 'can do' attitude.
84

roughrider,

Glasgow 17/08/2008 10:48:15
"But Scotland on Sunday can reveal that the UK Government has now instructed its embassy in Oslo to make it clear to the Norwegian government that they are not to deal with the Scottish Government.
Excellent news,well done westmonster.You have just delivered another blow to the corrupt union.
Hopefully the norweigians will tell westmonster to f**k off.

Darian all over again , bullying by the unionist scum will not be tolerated by the Scottish people nor by the SNP government who represent the Scottish people
unlike labour rats in a sack Jamieson,Kerr, and gigity Gray.
85

John S,

17/08/2008 10:49:05
SNP 'bulk-buy' plan to cut power bill.
Alex Salmond is to bulk-buy electricity for the entire public sector to slash millions of pounds from soaring energy bills.
The first minister will harness the government’s buying power to replace hundreds of individual contracts worth £200m a year with a centrally negotiated deal.
The new contract, which will come into force next autumn, will be used to supply electricity to councils, health boards, universities and schools. Government agencies, quangos, police and fire services will also benefit.
Bulk-buying electricity will enable the government to negotiate a lower price and reduce management fees, saving more than £15m over three years.
The Sunday Times August 17, 2008::tinyurl.com/6236mf
86

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 10:53:57
#27 Senga Jean,


"A passive act like discussions with others cannot be a breach of the LAW"

you wanna have a learn up on the law..Have you never heard of 'conspiracy'

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/SUT2802.html
"Conspiracy, when regarded as a crime, is the agreement of two or more persons to effect any unlawful purpose, whether as their ultimate aim, or only as a means to it, and the crime is complete if there is such agreement, even though nothing is done in pursuance of it."

#92

Of course the snp 'can' break the law here the snp 'can' break the law there

87

inkster,

17/08/2008 10:55:19
talk about witlessness and political gauchery - AS sets up the UK executive who then does a Pavlov as does AM2/SM723 and this unionist mouthpiece comic.

Net gain to SNP
88

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:00:21
#68 sm

Yawn!

Facts only in your petty little mind.
89

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:02:23
#86 sm

Clearly your knowledge of the electricity market in Europe is as limited as your intellect.
90

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:09:38
#96 John

A refreshing idea from Salmond. This is what happens when you combine political power with intelligence.

Oh, how Labour must hate him!
91

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:13:33
#97 sm

Again you fail to grasp reality. Not only is this a good idea, but also it is a necessary show of strength by the Scottish Government. It is a battle for the political high ground and it is a battle which will inevitably be won.

On your other points, one word, coal.
92

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:15:06
#99 Niko

I am willing to bet that Westminster would have a hard time convincing the EU that this constituted "law breaking".
93

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 11:21:17
Im-peach Salmon!

Now that sounds like a novel dish, nouvelle Liebore cuisine no doubt!

However, the addition of Broon sos would hardy seem to compliment this offering.

Having said that, perhaps an accompanying dish of Humble Pie following the Glenrothes by-election, may turn this into a meal of Gordon Bleu proportions.
94

pehman,

sussex 17/08/2008 11:27:16

this from the sunday times,

Alex Salmond aims to save Scotland £15m over three years in a bid to beat soaring fuel costsTom Gordon
Alex Salmond is to bulk-buy electricity for the entire public sector to slash millions of pounds from soaring energy bills.

The first minister will harness the government’s buying power to replace hundreds of individual contracts worth £200m a year with a centrally negotiated deal.

The new contract, which will come into force next autumn, will be used to supply electricity to councils, health boards, universities and schools. Government agencies, quangos, police and fire services will also benefit.

Bulk-buying electricity will enable the government to negotiate a lower price and reduce management fees, saving more than £15m over three years.

Yet more evidence of POSITIVE action,

How can maggie compete ?
95

Fairfax,

17/08/2008 11:31:49
connaughtboy (108): "Not only is this a good idea, but also it is a necessary show of strength by the Scottish Government."

I'm not sure an expensive undersea cable is a good idea, but you're obviously correct that it's an excellent tactic. For Salmond, this is win-win: either his administration will conduct these negotiations with Norway, an obvious step on the road to autonomy, or the UK government will seem restrictive.
96

tommy M,

17/08/2008 11:38:17
Another example of westminster trying to grind Scotland down.Evil! Don't imagine the voters of Glenrothes will be impressed.
97

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 11:39:35
#112 Fairfax

Rest assured, if this sub-sea link is eventually backed by the Scottish and Norwegian electricity utilities, they will have made sure that the "Business Case" stacks up. If it doesn't, they won't back it.
98

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 11:42:15
#98 The Spook in Leith,

Oh dear whats become on the snp rider at the Westminster hurdles during the 'Independence' stakes?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41016000/jpg/_41016085_tizzardadhocfall200.jpg

#103

I probably have had more experience with the criminal law and how it works in the real world than most of u little innocents...
99

inkster,

17/08/2008 11:45:29


FACT

Unionists gutted, filleted, battered, deep fried, ketchupped, chewed up and washed down with a pint McEwans Export!

Uuuurgh!

End of story!
100

Tris,

17/08/2008 11:45:42


Well... If it's going to be left to the Wetminster Government to sort out our power problems, my advice would be to buy lots of thick clothing and get piles of wood in, because the way they mess up everything else it won't be long before power supplies to everyone except MPs and the royal family go t!ts up
101

inkster,

17/08/2008 11:49:15
Constitutional possibly international law but not criminal law Nikos.
102

brownlie,

17/08/2008 11:50:16
115

Nikos, old chum, as a little innocent myself which side of the law did you gain your knowledge from?
103

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 17/08/2008 11:55:30
Innovation and solution-seeking is not a Brown government strong suit. Unnecessary control is. Congratulations are due to Mr. Salmond for encouraging this approach to power fluctuations.
104

,

17/08/2008 11:56:16
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105

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 11:57:13
The United Kingdom is now effectively a quasi-federal state in everything but constitutional name, and the centralised, 20th Century British State is long Gone With The Wind.

Devolved government is now the U.K. government status quo, and the Scotland Act, the historic power-sharing St. Andrews Agreement, and the original Wales Act along with the second phase of Welsh Devolution contained within the Government of Wales Act, 2006, are now enshrined in the U.K. Constitution!

However, British Unionists AND Scottish (and Welsh) Nationalists still see this constitutional arrangement as a constant threat to each of their future aims and objectives!

Both political movements had just better get used to the reality of this political arrangement and learn to co-habit with each other.

An impasse has been reached in the political history of the UK and many more changes will undoubtedly take place before the final outcome is decided.
106

GM,

17/08/2008 12:30:06
This is quite possibly the biggest own goal by Labour in the last 18 months (and there have been some beauties!)...

Couple of points -

1 - If it is outwith the Scotland Act, then thats a fact

2 - Its pretty clear to all but the most foamy-mouthed unionists that perhaps it shouldn't be outwith the scotland act

3 - Labour at Westminster had a HUGE opportunity to revive itself in Scotland by taking a particular route. That route would have been to publicly support the move and announce that Westminster wholly supported the discussions and as it was a reserved matter, would provide any and all assistance to Scotland to overcome the restirctions in the scotland Act. Westminster officials would work together with Hollyrood in taking the discussions forward...

4 - What really happened? Westminster sends emails to Norway telling them not to speak to scottish officials on the matter at all - hence slapping down the **idea** and not just the method...

5 - Outcome?
Scotland is once again perceived by its inhabitants as just another colonial ourpost of imbeciles who cannot manage their own affairs.
**the biggest own goal by labour in 18 months**




There you go AM2, copy that into your 'blog'.
107

GM,

17/08/2008 12:33:07
@3 AM2

AM2 do you think that Westminster had any opportunity to handle the situation differently?

Do you think they have effectively slapped down the whole idea due to the legal technicality?

Do you think this will wash well with most folks in scotland?
108

danbob,

17/08/2008 12:51:05
Can somebody with some sense come on here and tell me without reference to politics, because I really dont care about politicians of any party. Is this so called deal on electricity they are talking about a good deal for Scotland. I refer to costing.
109

Niall,

Fraserburgh 17/08/2008 12:54:16
Scotland is leading the rest of the UK in the renewable energy field by a long way. BERR have just knocked a few more nails into the union coffin by their actions, in fact a spectacular own goal. Their actions will have annoyed many more Scots who were swithering about Independence and will now jump off the fence into Pro Independence.

BERR are committed to NUCLEAR power something roundly and soundly rejected by the people of Scotland, and do not want renewables upsetting their plans even though this proposal has many positive benefits for Scotland and incidentally for the rest of the UK considering Scotland is an exporter of electricity, 18% at the last count.

This is for AM2. You mocked and derided me when I forecast two years ago that the UK economy would be in serious trouble, are you still of the opinion that I was wrong? Also be prepared to grind and gnash your teeth because I am about to publish my latest analysis of GERS 2006 called "The Great Obfuscation - GERS - 2006" and later in the year a paper called "The Economics of Independence" So if I were you, I would pop out to your nearest chemist and stock up on Anti acid pills. You will definitely need them if your reaction to "The Great Deception" was anything to go by!

'S mise le meas
Niall
110

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 12:59:20
What a pity that we Scots aren't as intelligent and responsible as Norwegians and can't make these decisions for ourselves.

111

GM,

17/08/2008 13:04:44
@150 sm753

You got anything to say on the 'slapdown' headline?

Helpful or harmful to the union and/or labour?

Do you think Labour, the union and Westminster had a chance to revive some support from the SNP's meanderings into energy?
112

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 13:05:23
We cannae dae this, we cannae dae that, tis reserved tae the Maister tae mak thae decisions.

T’is the law ye ken.

Aye Lassie, ye have tae visit the Laird’s bed the nicht, e’en afore yer wedding day.

T’s the law ye ken.

Timor mortis conturbat me.
113

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 17/08/2008 13:07:19
The consequences for Scotland of the limited powers of its government in Edinburgh becomes more clear every day.It is also clear that the current Labour administration at Westminster are unable to put the needs of the Scottish electorate first (before their narrow party interests).Irrespective of political preference, this latest confrontion (engineered by Labour)is not in the interests of the Scottish public.Another example of the need for independance.
114

Brian Hill,

17/08/2008 13:09:41
Another win win situation for the SNP. If London's block is successful the SNP will cry foul and people will rightly feel cheated by London.

If London gives way, their only real course of action, the SNP gains credit for saving people and organisations money.

This reality of the SNP pursuing what's in Scotland's interest with London blocking where possible in a futile attempt to maintain their grip on the reigns of power over Scotland will play out many times between now and the referendum.

And it's win win win all the way for the SNP. Keep it up Alex and co.
115

Gere,

Scotland 17/08/2008 13:19:24
Freedom for Scotland.

Independence from English oppression always was and remains still a pre-requisite for us to be able to determine our own future with a view to securing what is best for Scotland!!!
116

,

17/08/2008 13:28:03
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117

,

17/08/2008 13:42:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
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118

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 13:49:53
#128 sm

So, in your uncomplicated little world, you believe that the economics of 2003 applies to a project being considered in 2008 for 2010?

Incidently, the interconnector from Easington to Norway would be considerably longer than Scotland to Norway.

119

,

17/08/2008 13:50:29
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120

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:00:56
#148 daniel

Good post.

Everyone with a bit of the old common sense agrees that an integrated European grid is strategically vital. This includes Brown et al. There are two reasons Brown wants to block this. The first is to say no to the SNP Government in an attempt to belittle them. The second is that he would much prefer the interconnector to run from England to Norway for policitcal and control reasons. If this scheme goes ahead it will rule out a second one (from England) and that means an independent Scotland would have an extremely valuable asset.
121

Resolutions,

17/08/2008 14:15:38
Can I inject into what appears to be rather a lot of venom from the Unionist bigots,that the Norwegian population are well aware of this idea and feel the need to develop it.?

As Scotland has a quite remarkable shared legacy with our Norwegian neighbours(although the lack of Scottish History knowledge obscures that fact) and they understand 'consensus' and finding away forward, they want to talk and have been talking to Scotland as the natural partners in this. Are they to be prevented from talking to the people of their choice, by this dicatorial department?

How arrogant can they get?
122

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:18:35
#150 sm says:

"This so-called "deal for electricity" is not happening.No-one is building a cable, the companies concerned dropped the project five years ago."

Tell that to Eddie Barnes, he said:

"Scottish ministers were planning to meet their counterparts in Norway this autumn to discuss PROPOSALS to build a new electricity connector between Scandinavia and the UK".

It would be helpful to your credibility if you had actually read the article, instead of rummaging through National Grid documents that are half a decade out of date, at a time when oil prices were around $30 per barrel.
123

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:20:06
#147 Niall

What date do you intend to publish?

I await the fallout from AM2 with much glee!
124

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/08/2008 14:27:08
sm753

If you are Scottish, why do you have such low esteem for yourself and your countrymen??


Or are you a New Labour careerist seeing his future vanishing???
125

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:28:04
#146 danbob

Were you referring to the Scottish-Norwegian connector or the deal that the SNP are currently negotiating for the entire public sector. If the latter, it is extremely important. Firstly, from an economic point of view, secondly,and much, much more importantly, from a political point of view. The latter demonstrates the free-thinking of the current Scottish Government and this will appeal to the electorate and is a slap in the face for Westminster, which again will appeal to the electorate. Don't under-estimate the importance in showing Labour to be anti-Scottish and petty. So far they have played the part of stooge far better than even the SNP could have hoped.
126

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:30:10
#153 Hoots

Not true. Centrica has a gas storage facility at Easington.
127

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:35:53
#160 Aqwes

If AM2 is doing as you say, then he is probably breaking copyright law and infringing the individual's privacy rights.
128

Jimmy Le Pie,

17/08/2008 14:37:09
Does anyone have the link to the photo of Comrade Broon and Thatcher having tea.

Many copies will be needed for the forthcoming Glenrothes by-election.

Lets see if every household can get a copy of this infamous photo.

Vote SNP
129

Traquir , Alba,

17/08/2008 14:43:33

173 Jimmy Le Pie

"Does anyone have the link to the photo of Comrade Broon and Thatcher having tea."

Here you go - tinyurl.com/3odecx
130

GM,

17/08/2008 14:48:37
@160

AM2's blog is fairly recent.
He kept his own database of material posted by other contributors for a long time.

It is however, *no coincedence* that he asked for and got *all* of his own contributions removed from The Scotsman pages just before his blog went live.

Any person might think that he intended to cover his own tracks before cutting and pasting others' contributions to his blog.


@174

the 'bye bye' stuff usually takes the form of 'away to shop', 'away to garden' etc etc
and is *always* followed up by a period of moderation of these forums. In other words, interpret 'bye bye' for 'I'm away to login as moderator and get rid of the stuff I don't like'.

Any person might think that AM2 has moderation capability here.
131

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 14:55:13
#177 sm

I just know that when you resort to name calling that you are effectively admitting that your have lost the argument.
132

GM,

17/08/2008 14:55:32
@174 pink
"I´m not saying that AM2 is not intelligent, he is, in a cocky cheap statistical venomous way".

His 'intelligence' is misplaced on the subject of unionism and is driven and alomst overtaken by a foamy-mouthed obsession with 'the Union'.

We have, over the last 2 years witnessed nearly every one of his own predictions and statements fall flat as Scotland and the Scottish people have turned their back on his ideology.

An 'intelligent' person knows when to stop flogging a dead horse.

AM2 will never realise that people like him* do have a valid contribtution to make in an indepedent scotland. No SNP activist feels independence means an SNP dictatorship for years to come. It simply means we are free to vote for the party that looks and does best for Scotland, independent of english or london interference.


*and AM2, just for you, please do not attempt to spin 'people like him' in a negative light on your blog. It simply means 'intelligent, passionate, and with a valid point to make'.
133

Wisnaeme,

17/08/2008 14:58:30

Iwonder how many put downs of our parliament will it take for Scots to get really angry?

On the telly at the moment is a programme on the founding fathers of America. Was it not an accumulations of put downs on matters of concern to the founding fathers and those of like mind that caused a"separation"? Amongst those concerns was the burden of taxation imposed on "Americans" by a remote and dictatorial GB governance, not necessarily to the advantage of the "Americans" but exceedingly profitable to GB. Indeed, and the very people GB thought they could rely on to maintain the status quo through ties of loyalty, kin and shared values were the actual impetus and the driving force behind a separation with GB. Indeed many of the leading separatists were also freemasons.

...and that is precisely what GB is perilously close to achieving today in Scotland. The beezness people, the traders,the makers and sellers of commodities,the consumers, the back bone of our communities and the folk who rely on them for their fiscal well being are becoming increasing angry at being dictated to by an increasingly remote and out of touch GB government.

A GB governance that is perceived to be a burden and a hindrance to folk "getting on"; a GB government that appears to be indecisive and incapable of being helpful to folk as it lurches from one man made Westmidden disaster to another, without even having the advantage of a breathing space betwixt. If it were so that GB government was capable,competent, trustworthy, accountable, transparent, best value and fit for purpose, then perhaps the fiscal burden imposed on ourselves by Westmidden would be more acceptable and bearable.

Alas, it is not and they are not. From the self service emporium of Westmidden, Compliments of Mr Speaker inclusive, every thing can be bought and sold, everything has it's price,including people apparently.

...and the commission on these goods and services by the Westmidden commiserat and their se
134

Wisnaeme,

17/08/2008 15:04:53
services is becoming intolerable a burden.

Time we got rid of it.
135

frank mcbride,

lusitania 17/08/2008 15:07:24
#sm753.

For someone so well versed, in the ways of business, you miss the point entirely.

Jim Mather, as a clear-sighted and competent executive, of the SG, is exploring possibilities of energy security - for Scotland, as is his duty.

Unlike yourself, and AM2, he, like any good manager, does not look at what can't be achieved, but what can.

The inter-connector between Scotland & Norway has not, as you imply, been considered and rejected; a far longer one to England has.

A further point, Jim Mather is, like the good executive he is, examining this possibility so that, if it is viable, the preparatory work will be done before Independence.

The problem that Westminster has,is that clear-sighted, forward thinking by the SG is a mortal danger to its very being.
136

Linda,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 15:42:10
sm753
The UK government has no interest in Tidal Power which is the way forward. The shortest route is Norway to Scotland so its nonsense to suggest the economics are better going to England. The "National Grid" is a joke as it charges folk in North of Scotland to connect to the grid with renewable energy but pays folk in the South of England to do so.

Alex Salmond will have plenty to say about electricity later this week.
137

frank mcbride,

lusitania 17/08/2008 15:53:13
#185, sm753.

Yes, Jim Mathers has a responsibility to be concerned about Scotland's energy security. Not only is he an executive member of the SG, but specifically has the remit for Enterprise.

As for the Norway-UK discussions, do you have the link to give credence to your assertion that a Scotland-Norway link was considered and rejected and, if so, on what basis was it rejected?

As I said, a clear-sighted, forward thinking SG with a "can do" attitude is a mortal danger to Westminster's being and, this is the only reason for their interference. Any sensible "government" should be only too happy to explore the situation of energy security, given the current climate.

Why do you think that this is not the case with Westminster?

Does Gordon Brown have a job fixed up, through his personal contacts, with the Nuclear industry? Just wondering!
138

Alan B,

17/08/2008 16:19:49
You really do get the feeling the Brown and labour in london have completely lost the plot.

Seriously why would westminster really be interested in stopping the scottish government if they want to push enegry production as a key industry for scotland.

It is already ridiculous the post devolution enegry situation in scotland. It is simply silly for westminster to be able to bring in electricity transmission charges that are designed to go against the enegry policies of the scottish government. Not just the snp but the last labour government aswell.

Before devolution scotland has completely different electricity policies to england. Whether it was the structure of the industry where scotland did not have the forsed split between supply and generation like in england. Neta which did not apply to scotland. Or the amount of nuclear produced in scotland which was about 50% of generation compared to england which was about 20%.

Since devolution we have seen the previous labour government in scotland set completely different targets for renewables that england.

AM2; you posts really are getting abit bizzarre in your opposition to anything the snp does even when it has absolutely nothing to do with independence.

While foreign policy is a reserved matter, promoting an energy industry renewables etc is not. Having a link to import and export electricity to Norway and beyond seems an interesting idea to that end. That is not foreign policy.

Also it was labour in scotland that started setting up embassies for scotland. That would seem to much more likely to breach any reserved matter, but hey they are not the snp.

The message is clear from labour here. To h*ll with scotland and to h*ll with scotlands economy. If you do not vote labour and like it then they will try to make scotland suffer.
139

Alan B,

17/08/2008 16:32:52
#sm753

"So perhaps the connection charging system is designed to incentivise people to connect power stations closer to where the demand is."

You are party right but come to the wrong conclusion with the given information.

Labour brought in a new charging system in a the regulatory body for transmission charges that would encourage power production nearer the market for which it is too supply.

Link most policies they are advantages and disadvantages in the policy.

For scotland it is bad as it undermines any attempt that scotland may have to use it natural resources to create a renewables enegry industry.

This really is where the issues and problems of the union are exposed. Firstly it maybe in englands advantage to implement this policy. But it is clearly not in scotlands. Which policy does the uk government go for. A policy that may be marginally better for england or a policy that would completely undermine the an industry that labour in scotland, the lib dems in scotland and the snp all want. Brown has shown his true colors with this.

Secondly the problem is not just about where scotland and england interests may differ with a policy but alos where the devolve administration and westminster government have different policies. It is again silly to have the scottish parliament setting renewables targets if westminster can just implement policies that will put obstacle in its place.

The solution is clear. The england and scottish electricity markets have been differetn for a long time even pre -devolution. As such it makes sense for the scottish parliament to be responsbile for electricity transmission charges in scotland.

Problem solveed and no fights.

Part of the underlying problem is westmisnter is not interested in really promoting renewables in the same was as the scottish parliament. (rightly or wrongly). And when westminster do step in to help it is for projects in the south like offshore windfarms where it did change regualat
140

Alan B,

17/08/2008 16:33:38
cont..

regualations to help. As such it makes sense if you are building a coal fired power station to build it closer to the user base due to the electricity lost in transmission and hence the more electricty that you would need to generate from that source and hence more carbon dioxide.
141

Alan B,

17/08/2008 16:41:19
#185 sm753

I find it difficult to understand where you are coming from.

It is mathers job and the snp government to promote scotlands economic interest.

The questions would be:

1)is a project like this in scotland interests.
2)would it be economically viable

From even your own responses it seems like the answer to the would be yes.

So why should scotland give up a project like this so that england can persue this project and so scotland misses out.

Is there any reason why a link from scotland to norway should not be extended to england too. ie it can branch of the line to scotland and go further south.
142

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 17:04:41
#184 sm

"Do you think Mather bothered to brief himself on any of this before planning his wee jolly to Oslo?"

Yep!
143

Alan B,

17/08/2008 17:26:28
#sm753

"We privatised and liberalised the electricity and gas markets. Companies decide whether to make investments, not politicians."

Partially true. The electricity markets were privatised but regulated. The scottish market was privatised differently as I pointed out and liberalised differently with NETA.

Companies decide investments based on the regualatory environment and as such policies do have indirect control of the investements made.


""Labour" and "Westminster" don't decide transmission charges. National Grid do, with approval by Ofgem - an independent regulator. It's all about cold, hard system economics, not politics."

Untrue. Government sets the regulatory framework (otherwise we would have not seen renewables or nuclear). It is not abour cold hard economics it is about how different political parties want to persue out energy policies with regard to security of supply, cost and environmental considerations etc.

"It's nothing to do with "why should scotland give up a project like this so that england can persue this project and so scotland misses out". "

Of course it is. I noticed you never answered the questions i posed otherwise you would have to come to that conclusion.

I am not saying that the uk government or any engish based company should not persue this project. What i am saying is that scotland and the scottihs government should be free to also persue this type of project if it is economically viable and in scotlands interest.

I never accused you of being AM2. AM2 tends to avoid giving a positon of policial policy maybe becuase the few times he had it has come back and bitten him on the bum. Much easier for him just to oppose the snp no matter what.
144

Alan B,

17/08/2008 17:29:38
#sm753

"And my problem with Mather and the SG sticking their oar in is that is not their job. For the Nth time, the law of the land is that electricity is dealt with by the UK Government. End of."

In that case why did the last labour and lid dem coalition government in scotland set renewable targets 40% by 2020 and why did they also say they would/could veto nuclear power production in scotland. Even the planning approval for the lewis windfarm was decided ultimately by the scottish government.

Like most things in the devolution settlement there is a fudge over powers.
145

Alan B,

17/08/2008 17:32:58
#sm753

"developing a project in a way which maximises economic benefit."

Part of the problem with that statement is maxising economic benefit is subjective. Maximising economic benefit suggests employment, economic growth, political economics about which area is more deserving.

I would suggest national grids remit is far less that that but more about pesuing an specific energy policy within the regualatory framework set down by the government of the day.
146

Alan B,

17/08/2008 17:36:40
#sm753

Just to reiterate my questions. The issues that are important here are:

1)is it economically viable for scotland to have this link
2)would it be economically beneficial for scotland to have this link
3) could any link to Norway (given norway is north of the uk), not be done in a way to branch of to different parts of uk including scotland. It would seem that any link on the seabed should have links to major offshore north sea windfarms (and wave if/when viable) in the future.
147

Alan B,

17/08/2008 17:38:22
#200 should have been

"Companies decide investments based on the regualatory environment and as such politicians/governments do have indirect control of the investements made."
148

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 17:41:56
"The Scotland Act"
No direct international communications.

We're a colony!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!

First thing Wallace did after Stirling Bridge was re-open trading links with Europe. Lubeck, I think it was.

Some things never change over the centuries - the first thing you do to a country you have taken over is prevent it from having direct external communication. Then you take away their icons.

Sound familiar?
149

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 17:52:01
#188 small minded

A spanner in the works for your argument is that Scotland has vast natural resources, and, given the Westminster renewable targets, they need to tap into these resources.

Unfortunately, the economic signals from connection charges run counter to this objective.

It's a funny old world!
150

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 17:54:41
#189 small minded makes a complete eejit of himself, in public, AGAIN!

"No link - just a conversation with the man at Statnett who was in charge of the project"

Which, translated means "a guy down the pub told me"

What a t wat!
151

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 17:57:35
#189

The last part of the argument was so squalid.

Part of the economic case for rejecting the Scotland-Norway connection was the COST OF CONNECTION, which, wait for it is set by the UK Government!

The irony may escape you small-minded but it is clear to see for all others.

What an eejit you are!
152

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 18:03:49
#194 hoots

Good analysis. I was being a bit pedantic just to keep you on your toes. ;-)
153

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 17/08/2008 18:11:16
This seems like a good issue to got to the polls with at the Glenrothes By-Election. As Sir Ek says, it appears that the Westminster bodies are there to preserve their privileges and expenses rather than help anyone.
154

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 17/08/2008 18:13:09
I don't think many people are arguing that this is not a good idea but the manner in which it has been handled is poor on both sides. i f I went into work tomorow and started negotiating new contracts on behalf of the company and my boss i would get sacked. if I suggested I was best placed to do so I may well get the go ahead. Salmond cannot really think he can just extend the devolved powers at his whim and not tell anyone. He has done this to make the UK Governmnet appear the bogey man. if he had Scottish ionterests at heat he would have tried to obtain permission, now he has no chance of getting it.
155

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 17/08/2008 18:16:36
We need out of this Union NOW!!!!
156

Alan B,

17/08/2008 18:25:22
#All Politicians are the same

You comparison does not make sense. Brown and labour are not the boss of Salmond and the snp and more importantly the scottish government.

Lets face it what does it matter to the uk labour government if the scottish government try to promote an electricity link to norway. Why would labour really be interested in blocking it?

Labour would block this for a number of reasons:
1)It is not in their interests for the snp to do well in scotland. As we have seen so far their whole tactic is to try to undermine the scottish government.
2)the want the power and control of any such project
3)it may undermine labours plans which involve a link from england and not scotland.

"if he had Scottish interests at heat he would have tried to obtain permission"
That is just silly.


157

Alan B,

17/08/2008 18:28:15
What i find so surprising about westminster labours whole strategy towards scotland and the scottish government is to try to undermine it at every turn. Rather than letting that government achieve or fail depending on their own policies and competence.

It is almost as if they are so scared the snp will achieve for scotland and then get rewarded by the electrate for that labour feel they must undermine scotland and our government at every turn.

Problem is they are so obvious that people can see through them and their vindictiveness.
158

Alan B,

17/08/2008 18:34:45
Simple question to those attacking the scottish government.

Do you think it is more likely to be in Scotlands economic interests to have a link from Scotland to Norway or from England to Norway?

If you think this link could be in Scotlands interest do you not agree it would be negligent for a scottish government to sit by and not push scotlands interests?
159

,

17/08/2008 18:44:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
160

Suomi,

SaloFinland 17/08/2008 18:44:58
Allan B #214,you have hit the nail on the head.London Labour are control freaks who will oppose what is good for Scotland if it is proposed by the SNP.As someone said several months ago,if the SNP developed a cure for cancer,London Labour would be against it.
161

Alan B,

17/08/2008 19:06:41
#221 lol
162

,

17/08/2008 19:15:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
163

pehman,

sussex 17/08/2008 19:17:24

It's one thing sending a letter telling the Scottish Parliment that certain thing are outside its area of government.

But to TELL the Norwegian Government who it can talk to, well
164

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 19:21:52
#219 Suomi,

great life in Finland Eh Suomi

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/15/denmark.norway


"just back from two weeks in Finland, I've kept bumping up against the same puzzling phenomenon: a kind of unquestioning assumption of how things should be, a form of social control about the way to behave and one's responsibilities to others. The point when it became starkly apparent in Finland was at Sunday family lunch in a country barn restaurant; every table was full but all you could hear were murmured whispers and the scrape of cutlery on china - until our families arrived, anarchic, squabbling and full of chatter, despite my Finnish friend's attempts to get us to be quiet."





this is for u

http://www.islandcoins.com/images/ripoff.jpg



and the snp at a meeting

http://www.bodybuilding-pics.com/video/KEY9GkLLKd0/A-Game-of-Face-Slapping.html
165

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 19:25:15
#224 peabrain from the south having his dinner


http://www.sweetdixiesmokedbbq.com/PigEating_1_.gif

166

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 19:27:29
225, Nikostratos, are you a colonial or a colonist?
167

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 19:31:47
227, sm753, it makes the same blind bit of difference as BP's idea of piping all the oil directly to Tyneside and bypassing Grangemouth.

Are you a colonial or a colonist? Take your time. Confer if you want to.
168

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 19:34:51
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00317/Labour1855_317570a.jpg
169

,

17/08/2008 19:44:30
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
170

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 19:46:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ-bhM-xuec

For colonials and colonists alike - especially the colonists who are testicularly challenged with regard to answering questions.

You know who you are - and so do we (he-he)
171

obeone,

17/08/2008 19:48:25
Its like listening to children squabble. Should all be ashamed of yourselves


172

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 19:53:09
233, sm753, so you are a colonist.
173

,

17/08/2008 19:56:40
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174

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:03:54
At least the condescension sm753 recognises the letters which make up the word border. It should try asking the Danes if they would prefer their energy sources being diverted south to Germany. Or the Norwegians.

To Sweden.
175

Nikostratos,

17/08/2008 20:14:21
jock

perhaps this will help you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa5pKdnl5zI
176

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:24:53
238, Nikostratos. That link is as about as good as your unionist arguments. If you want me to be polite and laugh, then ha ha.

I do take Aloe Vera though, so the laugh's on you.

Now, about 228. Are you going to answer it?
177

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:30:12
239,simplemindwithaumberattached.

It makes a lot of difference because the meter is attached at the point of entry. Also the distribution of energy within the "UK" shows that England does not pay the whole price when it comes from Scotland.

Are you a colonial or a colonist? Or will you never answer that?
178

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:31:02
237 sm753,17/08/2008 20:20:46


Bongggg! And the Nats stop at nothing to show their ignorance to us all.

Have you worked out yet that there is a rather hefty interconnection between Scotland and England? So hefty, in fact, that the whole thing is run as a single interconnected system and a single market with a single price.

So, once more again for the terminally hard of thinking, what difference does it make whether a cable comes ashore north or south of the border?


I think you will find Norway is closer to scotland than to england you uneducated twit.
179

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:34:04
when we get rid of this so called union then we will be free do make our own minds up whether this is good or bad for the scottish economy and not be told what to do by another country
180

Sanny,

Glasgow or Algarve 17/08/2008 20:34:51
9 AM2, Scotland,UK
Why not? England broke the terms of the Act of Union almost before the ink was dry and have frequently ignored the terms of the Act over the last 300 years.

Let Westminster continue to bully Scotland in telling it what it can and cannot do I cannot imagine a better recruiting Sergeant for the SNP and a Yes vote on Independence.

As always AM2 your talking through your nether region.
181

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:36:21
#211 Learn to write English before posting. You know it makes sense. You certainly don't!!
182

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:36:22
why do the english want to charge more for the transmission of clean generated electricity like wind and hydro, which surprise surprise is generated in scotland, answer that my unionist buddy?
183

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:39:21
#227 small minded

There is no way on god's earth that you would be invited to a party!!
184

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:42:24
#233 small minded

your ignorance is there for all to see.

I pity you.
185

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:43:07
243, sadmasochistwithanumber, 240 was addressed to Nikostratos.

Are you mathematically dyslexic? Oh, dear, if you are.

However, my main sympathy goes to you for feeling obliged to hide being a colonist by describing yourself as

"a Scot and a Briton and a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and a subject of Her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II."
186

dude,

Wishaw 17/08/2008 20:43:50
The idea here is to take control of our own resources, making sure that we as a country have fuel security, just like all the other grown up countrys have, you on the other hand are quite happy for our infrastucture and energy companies to be sold off to the highest overseas bidder.
187

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:44:12
#239 small minded

Now I am laughing at you.
188

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:47:00
#244 We are actually free to do whatever we want to. Yes, even now.

The only obstacle is the unionists at Holyrood.

That obstacle will be gone soon.
189

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:47:09
Also its quite clear that the policy of the national grid is not for the benefit of anyone but their shareholders which for whatever reason also seems to hurt scotland more.

190

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:48:18
Oh dear, 248smallminded witha number, of course they would say that. These twa are for the benefit of England.

Jeez. I've got shares in "National" Grid - remind me to sell, sell, sell.
191

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:50:00
who the hell are you anyway sm753, it must be great being you always being right. National grid should not be in the hands of profiteers it is a national asset and as such should not be driven by profit, some of their more unscrupilous rules are laughable if it wasnt so downright unfair.
192

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 20:51:54
This project will go ahead. And there is fec k all London can do about it. That feels good.
193

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 20:55:21
However, my main sympathy goes to you for feeling obliged to hide being a colonist by describing yourself as

"a Scot and a Briton and a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and a subject of Her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II."

Is that a good enough reminder, smDigits? 255
194

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 20:58:29
The fact that our old folk are dying cause they cannot afford to heat their homes because of the policy of proffiteering companies selling something that you cant buy off someone else, like tesco etc. its not the same as buying a loaf oaf!
195

,

17/08/2008 20:59:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
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196

dude,

Wishaw 17/08/2008 21:00:57
"autarky"

1. economic self-sufficiency: an economic policy or situation in which a nation is independent of international trade and not reliant upon imported goods

2. self-sufficient country: a nation that is economically self-sufficient

you were saying

197

dude,

wishaw 17/08/2008 21:02:09
that is the position most mature countrys would strive for no!
198

dude,

Wishaw 17/08/2008 21:11:38
Maybe we should do it the scottish way this time then it would work, as long as the liebour trough swillers are not involved in the proccess i think we will be ok
199

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 21:13:24
267, somemoronwithanumberedchip, I care. Don't reckon I'm alone with that. Is that a problem with you?

Also, you should check out the terms and conditions that Scotland has to "export" it energy to England before it gets the single UK market price back.

You are a colonist - or a troll - or you would not post such UK orientated imperialistic drivel.
200

dude,

Wishaw 17/08/2008 21:16:04
sm753 + Am2 = zero

one and the same good old british sectarianism, you cant beat it, oh! yes you can

simple bolean algebra, i may not have a great grasp of the english language but i can count
201

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 21:16:34
So you, somemoronwithanumberedchipinplant did not realise that Scottish Power was taken over by Spanish Iberdrola? And you everything about energy? Get ye behind me troll.
202

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:22:40
#267 Small-minded

Clearly you know nothing about the UK electricity market:

Quote:

"but given a single UK power market and a single price, who cares where a Norwegian cable comes ashore"

You obviously know nothing about CFDs.
203

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:25:38
And you used to "do it for a living"?

No wonder its in the past for you ya eejit!
204

Alan B,

17/08/2008 21:26:12
#sm753

If it did not matter where it comes into the uk then you locate in scotland as it woudl be cheaper.

For scotland it important for a few reasons.

1)the transmission charges the uk has brought in under labour discriminate against the type of electricity policy the scottish government (and also previous scottish governments want). So it important not to just hand control away and hope that you might get a deal that suits you.
2)if as seems likely the scottish parliament get significantly more power as seems likely, even the unionist parties with calman makes it likely that things like energy policy could become devolved. As such it would be negligent of any scottish government to bury its head in the sand and pretent that is not a likely situation. Particularly given that this government is working towards that end.

I notice you did not answer my question as to why any link from norway to the uk could not branch to different parts of the uk.

You have also failed to answer any of the other questions i raised to you particulary those in #203.

The problem with so many unionists and/or labour supporters at the moment the argument always comes down to a union at any price. The irony of this situation it is this attitude and not pushing scotlands interests within the uk that will probably bring about its demise.
205

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 21:26:52
273, sm753, you shall get no more cheap energy from me tonight. Might I suggest you look up the dictionary for the meanings of Colonial and Colonist?

I mean, if we are the mentally challenged you refer to, you do a good job of simulation - empathy, perhaps?
206

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:27:00
#276 So have I. And I doubt that You have.
207

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:28:47
Which company?
208

Alan B,

17/08/2008 21:30:48
#sm753

"there is no "anti-Scottish" bias, the grid and the market only care about where generation is located relative to demand"

that is the point. it is not anti-scottish per se but is anti the energy policy that both this and previous scottish government wanted to persue. Scotlands parties tend to want to encourage renewables from our remoter places. The uk government has a policy to encourage production nearer users. The 2 policies are opposing. If you regard the sp as putting scotland position then you would regard westmister as perusing an energy policy against scotland interests and wishes.
209

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:33:26
I worked for Scottish Power for 12 years and you, Small-minded are talking through your rear end.
210

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/08/2008 21:35:52
282, Alan B, that would be apart from nuclear power, which would continue to be generated amongst the yokels.
211

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:43:17
Ahh, small-minded has retired for the night.
212

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:45:41
licking his wounds....
213

Sheltie,

Lerwick 17/08/2008 21:47:22
I find this incredibly short sighted by Westminster. If it's a reserved matter, fine, take it on board as it's a good idea.

An inter connector between Norway and Scotland could run via Shetland and Orkney, and these locations can provide significant amounts of renewable energy.

Add to this current Russian geopolitical moves, due in part to the strength of gazprom, any move that negates this should surely be welcomed.

Surely Westminster aren't that stupid?
214

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:51:57
#287 Sheltie

Westminster is that stupid. Occupied by people like sm753 so it's no wonder!
215

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 21:52:37
#288 Hi Stephen
216

Gtj,

17/08/2008 21:59:21
AM2 - SNP Executive, how bitter are you?
217

GM,

17/08/2008 22:02:30
to Am2, SM753 etc etc

The best quote today on these forums kind of sums up your stance -

"... a union at any price"






and you *still* don't get it!!
218

,

17/08/2008 22:13:05
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219

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 22:21:23
I love to see Westminster fall into the SNP snare every time. Why are they so dense? Every time they say NO to a sensible policy they loose currency. Every time!

Small-minded, petty, useless, irrelevant.
220

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 22:24:02
#291 Right I think!

Your type is few and far between!

Red-faced and manic with a short temper and little regard for the views of others.

221

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 22:26:15
Still, I won't hold it against you!
222

Arrow,

edinburgh 17/08/2008 22:47:45

"Christian Michelsen, a Norwegian shipping magnate and statesman, Prime Minister of Norway from 1905 to 1907 played a central role in the peaceful separation of Norway from Sweden on June 7, 1905."

given that, should the Westminster chaps not be telling their embassy chaps in Oslo that Norway should be sensible and rejoin Sweden. after all seperation is not nice and a bad thing, to be avoided at all costs.

why the devil should Norway jig to the Westminster fiddle? what is the UK (England)likely to do? not play football with them? and if they did decide to invite a delegation from the Scottish Parliament to Norway for an exchange of ideas would the Furrin Office revoke the delegation's passports? cause the plane to malfunction? maybe we should re-open the Shetland Bus transport link.

223

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 22:48:03
"THE Scottish Government has been banned by Westminster from talking to Norwegian officials about radical plans to connect Scotland's electricity grid to the continent."

That'll be shining friggin' bright!
224

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 17/08/2008 22:49:08
Only in your tiny mind Eddie!
225

Arrow,

edinburgh 17/08/2008 22:51:43
sorry i meant to add:

'Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!

i believe that was some Norway-England match!!
226

Weegiewarbler,

afloat in a boat 18/08/2008 02:12:16
SM753 - et al.
You Said
"And as I've already pointed out, National Grid and Statnett already decided an England-Norway link was preferable to a Scotland-Norway one because, although longer, the economics were better."

Examine the economics - from a Scottish perspective.
Post independence or additional devolved power this means that ALL additional energy (electric) that Scotland may at some future time need for it's economy, or by the power of the innovation of it's people that it might have for sale for others would be required to be BROKERED THROUGH ENGLAND whom it is exceedingly unlikely will do so without a considerable rake off - also if you control a countries energy - what it sells or what it needs - de facto - you control and are in position to dictate to that country.

Please explain how in the current socio political climate international power hookups to England benefit Scotland.

Now - Nuclear - opinions carry it is a waste of time - too costly - waste - decommissioning - accidents (Chernobyl - 3 Mile Island etc.)

Coal - Too many die for it - and the only "Clean Coal" we know of is in the advertizing slogan the American Coal Industry dreamed up - Show us Coal with ZERO emissions at burning - the clean coal argument will be bought.
227

Weegiewarbler,

afloat in a boat 18/08/2008 02:13:10
SM753 - et al.
You Said
"And as I've already pointed out, National Grid and Statnett already decided an England-Norway link was preferable to a Scotland-Norway one because, although longer, the economics were better."

Examine the economics - from a Scottish perspective.
Post independence or additional devolved power this means that ALL additional energy (electric) that Scotland may at some future time need for it's economy, or by the power of the innovation of it's people that it might have for sale for others would be required to be BROKERED THROUGH ENGLAND whom it is exceedingly unlikely will do so without a considerable rake off - also if you control a countries energy - what it sells or what it needs - de facto - you control and are in position to dictate to that country.

Please explain how in the current socio political climate international power hookups to England benefit Scotland.

Now - Nuclear - opinions carry it is a waste of time - too costly - waste - decommissioning - accidents (Chernobyl - 3 Mile Island etc.)

Coal - Too many die for it - and the only "Clean Coal" we know of is in the advertizing slogan the American Coal Industry dreamed up - Show us Coal with ZERO emissions at burning - the clean coal argument will be bought.
228

Royster,

18/08/2008 07:44:31
Reserved matter. End of story. Otherwise, this is little more than a junket organised by the SNP. Whatever agreements signed would not be legally binding. If the Scottish government wants to do this, it has to become independent first otherwise it is wasting taxpayers' money.
229

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/08/2008 07:56:25
#305 Royster.

Not necessarily. The Scotland Act could be amended to make this a devolved matter. If the SNP win enough seats at Westminster at the next General Election, the Conservatives may be willing to do a deal.

Of course, the other alternative is to go ahead anyway.
230

Arfur,

18/08/2008 11:47:13
Scr*w the Scotland Act. This is just a scare story. If the Engurland Government tried to take this to a European court they would lose. If they lost the whole of the Scotland Act would overnight become a pile of mince. Labour are stupid but not that stupid.
231

Highland Mighty©,

18/08/2008 16:00:39
Either Salmond is incredibly stupid for not knowing that foreign affairs and energy are UK matters...

...or he did this deliberately in yet another publicity stunt to seek conflict between Scotland and the UK.

What do you lot think?
232

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/08/2008 23:42:05
#308 HM

I think Salmond did this deliberately.

More power to his elbow!
233

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/08/2008 23:43:27
The more conflict between Holyrood and Westminter the better.

That will only hasten independence.

And Brown is playing a starring role in this saga!
234

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 18/08/2008 23:48:11
#307 Arfur

Correct. The EU would laugh at Westminster if they were stupid enough to try to block this.

Win-win for the SNP Government, again!
235

Barontorc,

Paris 19/08/2008 02:19:18
Surely enough, it's time to look at this forum and say the Scotsman is to be applauded for providing this rich canvas of Scots' opinion and I must say that the prompting of AM2 is just about the best stimulus I've seen in any publication. It seems to me that the Scottish Conversation launched earlier by the SNP is being enacted through these comments. Well done, Cutty Sark!
236

john z,

edinburgh 23/08/2008 23:18:38
Of course, what if the Norwegians CHOOSE to speak to Scotland.

Surprising as it may seem to some of the old colonialists in Wesminster, the Norwegians are very much independent thinkers, possibly the most independent thinking in Europe. To forget the history of Norwegian struggles for self government, is to make a grave error. Many have great empathy for Scotland.

If told what to do by Westminster, they are likely to tell westminster to take a long jump off a short pier.

 

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