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SNP tax plans 'scaring off firms'

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Published Date: 08 January 2009
THE SNP's controversial local income tax plans have dissuaded companies from moving their operations to Scotland, one of the country's top business leaders claimed last night.
Iain McMillan, director of the CBI in Scotland, said several firms had warned ministers about their concerns over the new charge. His comments will put fresh pressure on ministers over their plans, which would see the council tax replaced with a nationally set income tax of 3p in the pound.

The proposals have already been the subject of widespread criticism in the business community and are opposed by both Labour and the Conservatives.

The Liberal Democrats back a similar scheme, but want ministers to give councils the ability to set their own income tax levels, rather than having a national rate imposed by the Scottish Government.

The local income tax plans are set to come before the parliament later this year, but Mr McMillan's intervention has put the issue back on the immediate political agenda.

He said it was time the government "threw in the towel" and ditched the plan. He said: "We know of a number of businesses now that have warned the Scottish Government that operations and jobs that they would have brought to Scotland they have put on hold until this matter is determined."

He continued: "It could be very damaging and it really is time the Scottish Government threw in the towel on this and stopped telling business that they think a local income tax will be good for business. My answer to that is, 'Business knows what is best for business, not Alex Salmond and his government'."

Mr McMillan refused to give details of the companies involved or the scale of the business opportunities that had been put on hold.

A spokesman for John Swinney, the finance secretary, said: "We are not aware of any businesses in this position – what we are proposing is a substantial cut in local taxation in Scotland, which would be lower than in the rest of the UK.

"We have regular, very positive discussions with the business organisations in Scotland, including on the delivery of our six-point recovery plan to accelerate infrastructure investment, cut or abolish business rates for the smallest firms, and help families through measures such as the council tax freeze. We listen carefully to all views and, of course, parliament would need to agree to proposals to scrap the unfair council tax in favour of a local income tax based on ability to pay.

"We advocate our fairer system coming into effect in 2011-12, and believe that our LIT proposal contains key advantages for business."

One of the major problems for the SNP on this issue has been the refusal of the UK government to continue paying council tax benefit if the charge is abolished.

Scottish ministers believe that money – about £400 million a year – should continue to come to Scotland, but UK ministers disagree. Unless the money is paid to Scotland, the Scottish Government would have a funding deficit it would find hard to bridge.

Derek Brownlee, for the Conservatives, said: "As if there weren't enough already, this is yet another slap in the face for the SNP's unfair, unworkable and totally discredited local income tax. I'm not surprised by these developments, as businesses will rightly be concerned at the negative impact of such a measure."

He said there was already a serious problem with the local income tax as it would not raise enough money to fill the gap left by the abolition of council tax.


WHAT NEXT?

SNP ministers will bring the bill abolishing the council tax before parliament before the summer recess.

They need to get the Liberal Democrats on board first, which will probably mean the SNP agreeing to local flexibility on income tax rates – but only after giving the system a couple of years to bed in.

With the Tories and Labour opposed to the local income tax, ministers will need either the support or the abstention of the two Green MSPs to get their plans through the parliament.

The Greens want to see some form of land-value tax introduced and are unlikely to be persuaded to back a local income tax, in any form.

However, the SNP will still have to find some way of plugging the financial black hole caused by the withdrawal of council tax benefit if the new tax is to work. As yet, there is no prospect of the UK Treasury relenting on this key issue.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus-T-Firefly,

07/01/2009 23:55:06
The SNP LIT proposals are a dead duck!
2

Rufus-T-Firefly,

07/01/2009 23:57:51
Of course the LIT is a great idea for people like Aberdeenshire Scot who is unemployed.

He wont pay a penny!
3

,

08/01/2009 00:09:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
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4

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 00:10:06
No news day??

Have we not had this drivel on a near daily basis??

What about trying to get out and about like real journalists, Hamish???
5

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 00:11:04
This paper loses credibility on a daily basis,with it's cringeworthy efforts to discredit the SNP.
6

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:21:13
5 Cpt Incredible,Edinburgh 08/01/2009 00:11:04
This paper loses credibility on a daily basis,with it's cringeworthy efforts to discredit the SNP.
====================================================

Its a difficult task for the Scotsman.

How do you discredit something that is already totally discredited?
7

,

08/01/2009 00:22:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 00:22:18
There are lots of real stories out there, Hamish.

From the Times : Chancellor set to print more cash as interest rates hit record low.

From the Guardian: Ukip reckons Darling is about to borrow one of its tax policies.

From the Herald : Spiralling costs threaten British Army’s US fighter jet order.

From the Mail: The bank bail-out hasn't worked, the VAT cut has flopped - now for Labour's latest big idea: Let's print more money!

From the Telegraph: The publisher of the Daily Sport and Sunday Sport is seeking new financing
Daily Sport publisher seeks financing after bank breach

Hootsmon next????

9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 00:22:38

It sounds a lot off 'Mince'!

"THE SNP's controversial local income tax plans have dissuaded companies from moving their operations to Scotland"

More the likes the 'Economic Climate'!

If True!, Name the "Companies"!

Go on "Name" Them!



You cant can you?

Speaks Volumes!!



10

,

08/01/2009 00:25:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:25:29
Jimmy Le Pie,08/01/2009 00:22:18
There are lots of real stories out there, Hamish.

From the Times : Chancellor set to print more cash as interest rates hit record low.

From the Guardian: Ukip reckons Darling is about to borrow one of its tax policies.

From the Herald : Spiralling costs threaten British Army’s US fighter jet order.

From the Mail: The bank bail-out hasn't worked, the VAT cut has flopped - now for Labour's latest big idea: Let's print more money!

From the Telegraph: The publisher of the Daily Sport and Sunday Sport is seeking new financing
Daily Sport publisher seeks financing after bank breach
==================================================

If you want these stories Jimmy, then go to those respective newspapers websites and read about them.

Nobody forces you to come on the Scotsman Website (a real newspaper with real stories).
12

,

08/01/2009 00:27:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
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13

yankey,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 00:27:26

What a rediculous artcle
What companies
Woolworths..BOS..M&S

And all the others planning big expansion
God how this Paper has gone downhill

Perhaps if people like Mr Trump is encouraged and we can do things like build the New Forth Bridge we can escape the very worse of what is coming
If this paper had the slightest pretence to be a Scottish or any type of paper it would have these things on the front page on a daily basis

I lost my business during the Maggie Thatcher credit crunch and this has all the signs of being much worse

No wonder there will be a lot of unemployed reporters when the Scottish Herald comes into being

14

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 00:28:51
I really don't think that telling the Scottish Nationalist administration that their "local" Scottish Extra Income Tax On Top Of Everyone's Other Income Tax (SEITOTOEOIT) is going to cost jobs and scare off investors is going to work.

The Scottish Nationalists are nationalists, at the end of the day. Everything they do is predicated on helping them achieving their fundamentalist objective of splitting the United Kingdom. If that costs jobs and investment it's of little consequence to them.

Mind you, they said they'd set up their Scottish Futures Trust, and it's been nearly two years and it's still in the future, so they'll probably run out of time before they actually make anything happen.
15

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 00:28:58
#11

I always get my news from the real newspapers.

The Hootsmon is a bit like the Daily Sport - written by idiots for idiots (like yourself!!)
16

subrosa,

08/01/2009 00:29:15
CBI, McMillan - regurgitated drivel. Now, if he was to name the companies involved then his words may hold some credibility.

This subject is in this newspaper about every fortnight, along with a photograph of Mr McMillan. Labour henchman.

We don't believe you Mr McMillan, no matter how often you repeat your mantra, we don't believe you.
17

,

08/01/2009 00:29:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Edward,

08/01/2009 00:31:06
So let me see, Iain McMillan, director of the CBI in Scotland, well known unionist and Labour Party activist and supporter tells Hamish Macdonnell, also well know Labour supporter that the LIT will be bad for business, except that LIT is aimed at helping those that are not that well off or those on pensions and we are supposed to buy into the Labour arguement, right!
19

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:32:51
From the Scotland's People Survey 2007.
Includes all adults for whom household income is known or has been imputed.
Household income in the SHS is that of the highest income householder and their partner only


20% of Households in Scotland earn less than £10k
Band A Council Tax (Glasgow) £800
LIT @ 3% is £140


20% of Households in Scotland earn £10-15k
Band A Council Tax (Glasgow) £800
LIT @ 3% would mean between £140- 290


27% of Households in Scotland earn £15-25k
Band C Council Tax (Glasgow) £1070
LIT @ 3% would mean between £290-590


9% of Households in Scotland earn £25-30k
Band D Council Tax (Glasgow) £1200
LIT @ 3% would mean between £590-740


13% of Households in Scotland earn £30-40k
Band D Council Tax (Glasgow) £1200
LIT @ 3% would mean between £740-1040


10% of Households in Scotland earn over £40k
Band D Council Tax (Glasgow) £1200
LIT @ 3% would mean between £1040 +
20

Edward,

08/01/2009 00:33:41
Can Iain McMillan, explain away why Labour are puting up Billions for Capital projects in England , but refusing to help Scotland by not allowing the Scottish Government to bring forward Billions from future block grants or is that just to inconvenient
21

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:33:44


Ian Macmillan's Grin is 'scaring off firms'
22

,

08/01/2009 00:33:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 00:34:21
Cybernat quotes -

- This paper loses credibility on a daily basis,with it's cringeworthy efforts to discredit the SNP.

- More of the same from the Anti-Scotsman Newspaper.

- Another day another ZaNu Labour press release dressed as a Scottish Newspaper.

- God how this Paper has gone downhill

If you Scottish Nationalist supporters thnk so little of this paper and its reporting, why do you infest it in order to try and put it down? I think you should set up your own paper and hire your own reporters. If yoer views are as popular as you suggest, you will soon find all the readers you need and the Scotsman will disappear. So why not put your own money up - surely the "Scottish Nationalist Truth" would make a mint?
24

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:34:41
Here is a list of all the organisations that back the SNP's Local Income Tax Plans.

http://nobodyknew.net/
25

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:36:45
23 Fifi la Bonbon,08/01/2009 00:34:21
Cybernat quotes -
If you Scottish Nationalist supporters thnk so little of this paper and its reporting, why do you infest it in order to try and put it down? I think you should set up your own paper and hire your own reporters. If yoer views are as popular as you suggest, you will soon find all the readers you need and the Scotsman will disappear. So why not put your own money up - surely the "Scottish Nationalist Truth" would make a mint?
===================================================

HA HA

Spot on as always FiFi.

Its like a drug to them.

They hate it but cant keep away from it.

The Scotsman plays them along beautifully as it racks up its advertising revenues.
26

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:39:16



24. How many of the public back LIT Rufus?

27

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 00:39:47
Why do they persist in calling it a "Local" Income Tax? If they implement it in line with Nationalist plans, it will be anything but local. That's why I prefer to refer to it as Scottish Extra Income Tax On Top Of Everyone's Other Income Tax (SEITOTOEOIT). A much more accurate, if less snappy title. Alternatively, you could call it the Tax on Being Scottish.
28

,

08/01/2009 00:40:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
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29

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:46:19

27 . Because it pays for 'LOCAL" Services

You stoopid?
30

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 00:47:58

28 Aye Jwil..... more scare tactics from the tory/labour alliance.

Protecting the fat cats to the bitter end.

Let's get it straight though, in the last 24hours we have witnessed Labour defined PFI and Council Tax.


Dear oh Dear, it appears they have learned nothing from 2007
31

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:49:27
#26 Wardog.

I have no idea. I haven't asked everybody.

Is it important?

32

The Strategist,

08/01/2009 00:51:13
McMillan represents the old school British establishment. That era is gone. Flushed down the plughole by the actions of his chums at the head of the banks. Time he also moved on I think.
33

Edward,

08/01/2009 00:51:36
its curious that McMillan doesnt actually explain why businesses would object to LIT or who they are, maybe he wasnt told that by the Labour Party
34

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 00:54:13
#29 Wardog I see where you are coming from.

So although I live in Edinburgh my extra income tax could be used to bail out the mess in Aberdeen?

Ingenious.
35

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 08/01/2009 00:58:10
You can see where the lib dems are coming from. Aberdeen will be hit hard for one.
And get real There is no way it will be 3p and you know it
36

Brian Hill,

08/01/2009 00:58:57
The unionists will never give up on their negativity because they have nothing positive to say.

On Holyrood Live today one topic was the Homecoming and it appears it is going to be frighteningly successful.

Then wee Mcleod from the Times is wheeled on and he goes into this rant about yes it may be successful BUT not if it descends into............

There then followed a jaw dropping 2 minutes of negativity the likes of which I've never heard before. I fully expected him to burst into tears.

Compare this to the MOST DEFINITELY CAN DO attitude of Dubai. Despite its average temperature of around 30 degrees Dubai manufactures hundreds of tons of pure REAL snow every day which is then sprayed onto a man made hill which people ski down.

Ah.....but then not only do they have that MOST DEFINITELY CAN DO attitude they also have CONTROL of their own OIL and GAS money.

Those Arabs, a name we used to use in Not So Great Britain as an insult, would laugh in our faces if we told them that despite cutting a vital bridge project in half to appease our English masters they still refused to lend some more of our own money back to us in order to build it.

It's pathetic isn't it. Let's put it right once and for all with Independence so we can hold our head high wherever we go in the world.



37

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 01:05:57
#37 - interesting you refer to Dubai, built on the democratic will of the people together with their amazing work ethic ... oh no, that's not Dubai, which is build on the autocratic rule of the Emir and his family together with the sweat of hundreds of thousands of black semi-slaves working for washers with no rights. That's Dubai.

The Nationalists are planning to bring back slavery - you read it here first!
38

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 01:07:55
I'm glad that The Spook in Leith 's mum and dad aren't worried about the SNP's extra Scottish Extra Income Tax On Top Of Everyone's Other Income Tax (SEITOTOEOIT). Cos I was worried that they'd be worried.
39

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 08/01/2009 01:10:35
Iain McMillan, yet another one of those unionist dead beats who cannot look any further than thier own pathetic careers. SCOTLANDS REFERENDUM on INDEPENDENCE in 2010 will prove to them that they are Irrelevant in Scotland and a move south of the border is the only way out for them, for they are totally out of touch with the Electorate!!!!!!!!!
40

Billiam Wallace,

08/01/2009 01:27:51
#39 Fifi-cross-dresser-Grahamski spouting yet more alarmist drivel to make SNP supporters look more like Nu ZanuPF Liebour trash. The previous poster was merely trying to point out that control of our own budget and a can-do attitude would see a resurgence of national pride and a better Scotland. Oh no says Fifi, (ridiculous name, sounds like a poodle dyed red), Scotland must know its place under the heel of Westmonster. Well not for much longer. Bye bye Fi, when are you moving south?
41

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 01:36:54



"Local Income Tax" Makes Sense!

Why should someone, that is on a Pension, and lived in their House, all their Life, pay full "Council Tax", when their Neighbour, might be earning over £50k per annum, and only pay the same "Concil Tax"?



42

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 01:37:03
Before we judge Iain MacMillan's powers of prediction, could we hear what advice he was giving to government about bank regulation in this country and about levels of public and private debt, up to when the credit crunch first hit?
43

Brian Hill,

08/01/2009 01:39:23
# 19 Wardog. Very informative Wardog. Nothing like a few facts to burst a Hot Air Balloon....and the article isn't much better either.

On the other hand Wardog the article didn't mention that LIT will cost every living Scot (80% discount for dead Scots) £5000 per week...or is it £50 per month? Or maybe 5p for every family????

Hang on I'll just check my Labour Party hand out....

Oh, it just says: SNP is rubbish, get thum oot, it's oor turn noo. Resign Ya bas!!
44

Alan Reid,

Wellington 08/01/2009 01:39:51
Rufus reminds me of that fool Media 1, and i've not seen his rants for a while. Unless of course they're the same person..........
39 Fifi la Bonbon, = Knob.
45

Brian Hill,

08/01/2009 01:42:53
Fifi hen, only a unionist troll like yersel could put such a negative spin on my rather splendidly constructed post at #37....a post full of sense, unlike your own.
46

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 01:45:32


34. "Wardog I see where you are coming from."

Erm no you don';t

Your squealing like a pig tory boy.......

Your sure got a pretty mouth
47

Dark Lochnagar,

Symington 08/01/2009 01:46:00
This will be the same companies who weren't going to come if the SNP got elected because it would cost everyone £5000. Aye right. Companies will come here if it suits their business model. End of story.
48

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 01:50:58

46. Brian

Aye, it's quite illuminating to see the household breakdown.

Why Labour are sticking by a tory tax based arbitarily on the value of houses is beyond me and I dare say most Labour Supporters.

That Labour should defend a taxation system whereby second home owners actually get a discount is astonishing.

Ian Gray is on hiding to nothing.

He came out clearly for rates base don property value...... oh dear

Did anyone catch the Time story this week, thousands of people are being thrown out of their homes due to council tax arrears....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5462649.ece

Welcome to Labour's NEW DEAL

Comrade Brown is beaming with pride at his nanny state



49

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 01:57:15


Can Ian Macmillan name the firms it's scaring off?

Is he just another fat piggy squealing as they pay their fair share?

50

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 02:04:13


"....Mr McMillan refused to give details of the companies involved or the scale of the business opportunities that had been put on hold....."


Oh dear


His jowls twitched as he resigned himself to paying HIS FAIR SHARE

51

I can see for miles,

08/01/2009 02:06:59
The article says it all really.

SNP scaring people/investors away from Scotland.
52

I can see for miles,

08/01/2009 02:08:40
I think that Salmond has developed his diddy face over the years just to annoy decent folk even more.
53

Newton_Invented_Gravity,

08/01/2009 02:09:56
And Iain MacMillan has spent the last few years calling for greater regulation in the banking sector, and warning of the danger of too easy credit, so we can trust his judgement on what is 'good for business', I take it?
54

I can see for miles,

08/01/2009 02:23:08
Salmond is cutting his own personalised CD to send to Sean Connery for his next birthday.

A wee cover version of "Ha, ha said the clown"
55

Fifi la Bonbon,

08/01/2009 02:28:53
- Fifi-cross-dresser-Grahamski spouting yet more alarmist drivel to make SNP supporters look more like Nu ZanuPF Liebour trash...

- Oh no says Fifi, (ridiculous name, sounds like a poodle dyed red)...

- Fifi la Bonbon, = Knob...

- Fifi hen, only a unionist troll like yersel...

Insults, that's all the Nationalist fans have. No politics, just personal, and quite often sexually directed, insults.

I think it's a sign of insecurity and inadequacy that these troglodytes can only resort to what they think are clever insults rather than to address the issues with respect and dignity.

More worryingly, it's a sign of arrogance that anyone who isn't a full-dyed nationalist extremist like themselves is to be treated as less than human. The contempt and extreme language they use could come straight from the terraces of the more thuggish football clubs, or alternatively from the sectarian mindset of participants in the Northern Irish nationalist debacle. Those of us with whom they disagree aren't interlocutors, we're "themmuns" in Northern Irish terminology, we're the enemy, to be suppressed by all means necessary.

The Nationalists in Scotland should clean up their act.

The time will come when they lose important elections and arguments with the electors - even one seat will lose them their present majority in the Scottish Parliament, and what then? Will they accept defeat peacefully, or will their violent and abusive language turn into violent and abusive action? Because they think they're patriots, and a patriot who feels he's being thwarted is a very dangerous animal.

Al that said, I think the "Local Income Tax" which isn't local but is rather an extra Scottish Extra Income Tax On Top Of Everyone's Other Income Tax (SEITOTOEOIT) is a bad idea, and a bit less arrogance and a bit more listening would do you a lot of good.
56

I can see for miles,

08/01/2009 02:35:09
#58

I am a bit of a code breaker in my spare time (won several prizes). Therefore your simple code was easily cracked as I was enjoying my second chocolate hobnob of the day.

cracked, it reads- time for abusive and violent sexuality

Are you OK?
57

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 03:14:48
Who exactly is this guy?

Which “top business” does he actually lead?

How many people does he employ?

Which firms have been dissuaded from coming here because their employees would not require to pay council tax?

Where is the evidence of his claim?

Why should anyone believe him?
58

McGubbligan,

Oz 08/01/2009 03:43:06
Hopefully Mr. McMillan will lead the charge down south when the L.I.T is introduced,taking Rufus,Fifi and all the other anti-Scots with him.Quite simply he is a liar and will say anything to denigrate Scotland and Scots.
59

McGubbligan,

Oz 08/01/2009 03:44:38
Oh! And take Hamish with you!
60

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 04:10:34
(#1)(#2) – (Rufus-T-Firefly) – You maybe right, at least in part, though where is the construction of a better alternative?
(#6) - (Rufus-T-Firefly) – Some may say “Totally” is on the harsh side.
(#11) - (Rufus-T-Firefly) – You have a very valid point.
(#24) - (Rufus-T-Firefly) – Some might say these same organisations didn’t back a minimum wage either.
(#25) – (Rufus-T-Firefly) – Again you maybe right, though you might realise these people need an outlet for their frustrations like many others.
(#31) – (Rufus-T-Firefly) – It might be important, is it to you?
(#34) – (Rufus-T-Firefly) – Why be so negative to someone who is stating the obvious?
61

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/01/2009 05:20:23
Despite the fact that the only Industry in expansion mode are Bankruptcy Trustees, the decision by companies on where to locate are made more on the basis of Corporate Taxes, Labour Pools and Customer Markets than they are on how much money they have to deduct from the employees pay cheque.

Companies look at what it will cost to produce their desired product or service and opt for the place that will maximise Profit.

That is why Ireland continues to attract companies from the UK and else where.

If Mr. MacMillan was serious about attracting business to Scotland he would be advocating Independence and the setting of business rates to be placed in Scottish hands, so that we would have control over our economic future.
62

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/01/2009 06:12:47
Right on schedule - another "the Sky is going to fall down" LIT scare story by the Unionist Hootsman.

In the past the unionists insisted that the SNP didn't have the experience to run Scotland - guess what, they lied. The SNP are doing a better and more honest job than the unionist parties EVER did.

In the past the unionists insisted that Oil would run out by 2013 - guess what, they lied. Just as it is there is enough Oil for 30-years. Every reason to believe there is 100-years reserves, with new technology and new fields.

In the past the unionists insisted that Scotland couldn't afford to be Independent - guess what, they lied. Truely independent analysts - not unionist toadies - say Scotland would be just fine.

Do they honestly believe that anyone believes there is a single company that has scrapped real plans to move to Scotland. There will be plenty pro-Labour firms who have absolutely no plans to move to Scotland, that when asked said they would come to Scotland because of LIT.

"Mr McMillan refused to give details of the companies involved or the scale of the business opportunities that had been put on hold"

Of course he can't, because THERE ARE NONE. But that doesn't stop this drivel being printed as a lead story.

Where are the COMPANY NAMES Hootsman.

PUT UP OR FOR GOD'S SAKE SHUT UP!!
63

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 08/01/2009 06:15:45
Sorry, last post should read:
"There will be plenty pro-Labour firms who have absolutely no plans to move to Scotland, that when asked said they WOULDN'T come to Scotland because of LIT".
64

Macuistean,

Isle of Tiree 08/01/2009 07:19:35
The Scotsman missed the big big story. Woolworth's left because of LIT. Does anyone buy this rag?
65

donald anderson it's me,

glasgow 08/01/2009 07:20:16
They tried that scare over Devolution and John Reid tried it before he joined "The Forces of the Crown" at the Loyalist Parkheid Board.
66

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 07:28:51
The SNP should be delighted with Mr MacMillan's intervention. The more reasons they have for abondoning this illegal, unworkable, completely discredited and ill-conceived plan the better. Now they can blame business and England for scuppering their back-of-a-fag-packet promise-but-don't-deliver policies.
The civil servants who have to deal with the numpty SNP ministers have a name for the interminable meetings where ministers frantically cast around for excuses; blame-storming sessions.
The SNP administration is bracing itself for a tough six months with several senior civil servants on the brink of saying 'enough' and going public with their concerns over ministerial incompetence....
67

Phil C,

08/01/2009 07:48:48
It's time to stop faffing around. We need faster progress in making Scotland better and fairer. If the businesses don't like it, they'll go elsewhere. They won't though! If there's money to be made then business will be there. Plain and simple.

Under Labour we're fast losing businesses and the will to invest. The daily tosh about LIT and the irrelevant views of fat b#stard business leaders is unionist distraction, promoted by the Scotsman. Let's have proper news please.
68

tartan army 2222,

08/01/2009 07:50:15
Saw the words 'Iain MacMillan' and 'CBI' and didn't even bother reading the rest of the article. Same old, same old from the right wing of Scottish politics.
69

David MacVicar,

Web 08/01/2009 07:56:36
Another article of confused, contradictory bile.

'Scared of' is quoted in the title but nobody says it in the article. Where does the quote come from? David Maddox perhaps?

Businesses have raised concerns about LIT and the impact to payroll etc, they certainly won't like the uncertainty over the wrangle between Westminster and the Scottish Regional Council aka SP. This is political uncertainty not a LIT issue specifically.

Let me see, the public pays less tax, increasing the money in their pocket and this is scaring of business in a time of Economic crash? Yeah right, only Union LA LA Land.

The article even quotes the Tories "it would not raise enough money" - what the FC.UK has that got to do with 'scaring of' business?

How about why is everything centralised around London, such as more people employed in the Oil industry in London than any other region. Fiscal control and access to government will see plenty inward investment.

How about what Scottish business thinks about fiscal control for Scotland, decentalising the UK? Oops forgot, dont mention that, risk to the union etc etc.

Till now Scotland has lagged behind the rest of the UK in attracting business under every single UK party since decades. Tory and Labour adminitrations with libdems in tow have never brought about inward investment. So they really know how to attract busines to Scotland - NOT, they do well at brain drain and encouraging people to migrate though.

LABotomaTORY achivements: Behind UK on growth - parctically Every year of every decade since the 70s.
Behind UK on attracting business.

Who takes advise from complete failures and why are they still in a job? Oh yeah, rags like this paper.
70

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 08:01:18
#71 Grahamski

You say in your post that LIT is illegal???

Would this be the same kind of illegal as John McVicar was involved in by perpetrating his fraud against the taxpayer, by claiming benefits he wasn't entitled to??

He'll probably go to prison.

Is LIT a jailing offence???

PS John McVicar is a New Labour Sleaze activist and member of the GHA, and presided over numerous evictions for tenants who were in debt!!

New Labour Sleaze and Corruption - fraud at its best!
71

David MacVicar,

web 08/01/2009 08:03:54
72 Rulesbutnotrulers,

There is a slight, or should I say glaring flaw in your argument.

LIT was put forward as an option by the LAB Lib coalition looking to replace council tax in the last session from a study commisioned and orchastrated by labour and which their commisioned experts concluded upon. Hence why the LIBs actually went with it while Labour ignored it wanting to add new bands instead.

It is not often a reguler poster can be so comlpetely flat out wrong in a post but you manage it in totality.
72

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 08:04:38
Who pays for the State? Business.

Are businesses going to be attracted to Scotland because their employees pay more income tax in Scotland?
73

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:09:06
There are no jobs or businesses moving to Scotland regardless because there is a resession.

Perhaps there could be a naming of these businesses?

The only thing that has attracted businesses to Scotland is the massive subsidies handed out to them. These subs then disappear along with the business as most business nowadays are footloose.
74

David MacVicar,

web 08/01/2009 08:12:52
Jimmy Le Pie,
Well when identity confused Grahamski stated "abondoning this illegal, unworkable, completely discredited and ill-conceived plan" I belive it was Iraq he was talking out.

The diatribe then assumues an English hating stance from his obsession bout all things English. The fact that I even stated England or English in a post and am not a fully paid member of the Cringe, obviously means it must be a racist comment.
75

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 08:13:16
77
You claimed:

Hence why the LIBs actually went with it while Labour ignored it wanting to add new bands instead.

So, nothing to do with long-standing national liberal policy then?

Talk about glaring flaws, eh?
76

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:22:02
Fifi la Bonbon # 58

Iain McMillan should take a more positive stance and advise companies looking at establishing in Scotland to look elsewhere whilst the SNP are anywhere near the levers of power.
He should direct them to sites like this where Natz, Salmond supporters congregate and their vicious, undemocratic, racist and sectarian opinions are exposed for all to see. That should swing it.

There will be trouble in Scotland with the Natz when they lose the independence referendum, or, if is as most likely Salmond fails to deliver that referendum. In any case, businesses should stay well clear until there is a very conclusive outcome on Salmond's divisive independence policy.
77

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:29:10
83

Please provide me with evidence of "sites like this where Natz, Salmond supporters congregate and their vicious, undemocratic, racist and sectarian opinions are exposed for all to see"

Thanks.

BTW, the same could be said of the palpablee loathing of Scots, Scotland and Independence by the pro onionists and/or non Scottish people.
78

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 08:31:17
84
Donnie, stick around and watch as the nats go bertie...
79

Gussie Fink-Nottle,

08/01/2009 08:32:25
Ian McMillan, former bank manager, Unionist acolyte on the Calman Commission and 14 years salaried director of CBI (North Britain branch), aye there's a captain of industry...
80

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:34:07
85

Grahamski/Rufus/Sam the Man/Andrew M*ulden/Kimba etc

Likewise, stick around and watch the onionists fear and loathing of Scotland as a nation as apposed to a region.
81

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:37:35
Donnie Murdo # 84

Here last evening, the Natz supporters were out in there sectarian revery drowning out all others with their pre-planned denial of service attack on the Scotsman and free speech.
The SNP should stop funding Muslim groups in Scotland, stop providing moral support for ETA and should state categorically what they would do about about Jewish, Catholic and Muslim schools if Scotland was independent. Salmond is scared of addressing the schools issue in particular because he knows that the rabid wing of his cabal wants to close all denominational schools; they don't want parents to have a choice how and where their children are educated.

Any business, particularly an oversees business, contemplating opening in Scotland would be well advised to steer clear while the racist SNP has any influence.
82

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 08:38:26
88
Onionist? What's that then?
83

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:40:28
Post 87

The post at 87 is an example of what I write. The scum in the SNP will attempt to close down any opinion of which they disapprove. Their sectarian credentials are there for all to see in post 87.

Businesses be warned that the SNP are not a party for business, far less democracy.
84

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:41:13
91

Right, so the SNP support Muslim groups and allow Jewish, Catholic and Muslim schools to exist along side non demoninational schools and they are sectarian?

Racist as well? How?

BTW, what was the point of your attack on Labour and now your attack on the SNP? Are you a Tory?
85

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:42:16
93

I don't think you are well.
86

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:44:26
96

Why are you addressing yourself?

I don't believe Peter Toben was a Catholic preist...or a nun.
87

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:45:48
Strangely, a lot of businesses might actually come from strongly Catholic nations such as Spain, Portugal, Eastern European countries, Italy etc etc.
88

Lumpy Dan,

Partick 08/01/2009 08:46:01
I seem to remember McMillan saying the same thing when Labour introduced the minimum wage ..more scaremongering twaddle from a son of Thatcher .
89

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:46:38
Post 90

I had forgotten about the homophobia evinced by the SNP and embodied in very large payments to the SNP by Brian Souter.
The SNP are racist, sectarian, homophobic, support fundamentalist religious groups and give moral succour to European terrorist groups.
90

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:47:18
This has now turned into a an anti-religious/anti-catholic rant by a dyslexic tard.
91

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:48:55
102

Careful now. The Scottish Government are very pro LGBT and have massive initatives for it since the SNP came into power.

You are now spouting rubbish and you are being very disingenous.
92

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:51:10
Post 98

Another fake post by SNP supporters wanting to drown out free speech.
Businesses thinking of moving to Scotland should be aware of the SNP's totalitarian tendencies as evinced by their attempts to stop debate.

Donnie Murdo # 99

Where is your proof for that assertion. Why would a business move further from their market, rather than closer?
93

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:53:41
106

It's called a global market dummy. Why make micro-ships in silicone glen to ship them to America or Japan?

Silly boy. Go away.
94

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:54:13
Donnie Murdo # 104

If you don't like the attitudes of the SNP support don't read the posts here, because they are all of the things that I mentioned. In addition you have a fake posting sectarian rubbish, which is typical of the SNP support.
95

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 08/01/2009 08:55:30
Anyone who earns over 50k should pay 50% tax, anyone who earns over 100k should pay 90% tax. All loopholes in the tax system should be closed with no allowances above those amounts permitted.
96

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:56:17
109

You've lost me I'm afraid. Please fcuck off and let the grown ups talk about the rubbish spouted by McMillan.

Thanks
97

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:57:21
112

So, those at 50K get 25K after tax yet those that earn 100K get 10K after tax?

I don't see that working somehow.
98

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 08:57:27
Donnie Murdo # 108

Why would a big industrial player relocate to Scotland stupid? We've heard this "Silicone Glen" story for yonks and it has not happened and it will not happen now that the SNP is Holyrood.
Stick to what you know, collecting seaweed from the beaches where you say you are.
99

Donnie Murdo,

Western Isles 08/01/2009 08:59:42
117

Thank fully you have exposed yourself as a crank so I can safely ignore your comments for what they are, purile rubbish.

Off you pop.
100

Alan Reid,

Wellington 08/01/2009 09:00:22
If you want a laugh watch this

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=247&Itemid=97

This one is even better

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=81
101

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 09:00:35
Posts 111, 115,

More faked posts from the SNP...

The SNP hates free speech, business should more fearful of the lack of democratic impulse in the SNP than their idiotic tax plans.
102

Vivas,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 09:04:59
The poor old Scotsman...times are tough there as we know...and I suppose endlessly recycling this same story time and time and time again saves on journalism costs.

103

Alastair the First,

08/01/2009 09:05:43
Ian McMillan again? This is not news, or true; it's just one biased wee turd of a unionist spouting his own narrow minded opinions in the hope of an honour from his Labour bum chums.
104

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 09:08:16
Post 121

You are a fake...

The worst example of child abuse, ever, in Scotland was carried out by Thomas Hamilton, a Freemason.
105

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 09:10:54
Post 122

Another faked post.

Why does the Scotsman not do something about this fakir? Are they unable to control these posts, do they agree with the fakir, or, are they indifferent to the sectarianism occurring in their publication?
106

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/01/2009 09:12:20
'Business knows what is best for business'

Yeah, that worked out well in 2008, didn't it?
107

David MacVicar,

web 08/01/2009 09:12:56
82 Grahamski.

I claimed nothing I stated exactly what happened, check the commisiond report yourself. The conclusion for the report of which LIT was only one option was still followed by the LD, rgeardless of previous policy - they did commision the report afterall.

Labour however, who were the main drivers of the commission igored it completely.

Regardless, it was still their appointed experts who produced the report, not the SNP.

Thanyou for completely ignoring my counter arguments and concentrating on irrelavant points because:
LABOUR LD commisioned the original report _ NOT the SNP.
It was their experts not the SNPs,
This is where the SNP got their LIT policy from, a Labour commisioned study, ironic but true.

My reply was to Rulesbutnorulers and disputed his arguments which you have failed to confirm, nor have contradict my own, except jump at a tangent. No surpise there really.

Can you please tell me where "The SNP... they can blame business and England"
Who is blaming England outside of your deluded imagination? You really are obsessed about England, clutching at straws, every person who wants Scotland to be governed as a country is just plain racist arent they?
108

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 09:14:38
Post 128

Another faked post by an SNP supporter, a hater of free speech.
109

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 09:14:39
Perhaps the CBI (Business Club that no-one is in) could comment on this:

'Some analysts have begun to warn that Britain will soon face a deficit of 10pc, the sort of catastrophic levels seen in Latin America in the 1980s.

There is a mounting anger in EU circles over the slide in sterling, seen by some as a deliberate 'beggar-thy-neighour' policy evoking the Great Depression. "The 30pc fall in the pound is the biggest devaluation by any country in the single market since it was created in 1957," said one ex-commissioner. "There is going to be a serious political reaction to this in coming weeks."
110

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 09:17:34
Funny not 1 word from the CBI in Scotland on the UK heading towards Argentinian levels of collapse.
111

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 09:21:14
130
To what report are you alluding?
Nationalists don't blame England, is that your contention?
Seriously?
112

TWC,

08/01/2009 09:22:27
The CBI are bound to disagree they represent the better off who will indeed pay more through LIT.
I am retired and my family will certainly pay a lot more. However when all my children have left home I will pay about a third less than I do in Council Tax when I'm restricted to a fixed income.
LIT is a percentage and therefore it is right if your taxable earnings are Zero then the LIT should be 3% of Nothing.
I don't know if the Nat version or the Libdem version is right but they need to implement one or other.
Unless the othet 2 parties have an alternative they should back one.
113

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 09:25:49
#136 Churchill

There is a wonderful knitting pattern in this month's edition of 'Bella' magazine.
114

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 08/01/2009 09:26:51
It's not going to happen is it?

More importantly, when thousands of people realise that they will be liable for the new tax, there will be uproar. The poll tax brought down Thatcher and this tartan version would bring down the SNP.
115

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 09:27:52
#140 Churchill

Wool may shrink if washed at too high a temperature.
116

David MacVicar,

web 08/01/2009 09:28:00
125
Rulesbutnotrulers, yeah my typing is pretty bad and I don't spell check or proof read what I type. Its a forum not a peer review. I guess you preffer a post full of lies or inccuracies and supported assertions in its content as long as it is spelled/typed correctly.

However my argument remains, the article is LIT, you commented on it directly, there was nothing implied about it:
"SNP tax plans must scare any informed person." What other tax were you referring to?
"SNP is not attracting quality advisers", maybe true but noting to do with where LIT policy came from.

Your whole post implied that this was a specific SNP TAX, from a SNP policy, formed by unskilled SNP advisors. Flat out wrong.
117

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 09:30:09
#142

Churchill W. droppped mustard gas on the areas of Kurdistan.

Scientists claim that humans are evolved from monkeys, and that the earth is round.
118

David MacVicar,

web 08/01/2009 09:36:11
137 Grahamski.

You must be right the English SNP MSPs, members and supporters must be self loathing, yet this is a recognised cringe characteristic. A characteristic put on show by your good self on a daily basis and that is if you even are Scottish which is in doubt given that you affiremd you were English in an old post. Oops - but I think you were pretending to be English.

You are either a self loathing Scot (likely) or an Englishman ashamed of your own identity (unlikely its a British-Scot trait).
119

ddmc,

08/01/2009 09:37:39
pity no comments on the lawyers being made redundant story, cheeriest news I've heard all week !
120

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 09:46:33
148
Who said anything about loathing anything or anybody? I merely made the fairly uncontroversial point that the nationalists weren't averse to blaming England for a whole plethora of our woes.
As regards cringing, sorry, you've lost me there - I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
As for your obsession with nationality I don't understand why you feel the need to challenge me over my 'nationality', I'm Scottish and happy to be so. I've no idea why you assume anybody would be ashamed of their nationality - it is merely an accident of birth and geography - like having blue eyes, hardly something to be proud of but equally nothing for which to be ashamed.
121

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:50:09

150. Why are you happy to be Scottish if it's just a postcode lottery?

Is there nothing specific to Scotland that you like?

122

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 09:51:48
151
Why not?
123

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:52:31

135. Aye, that's the real story, Macmillan's total allegiance to Brown + Co, he hasn't criticised anything they've done despite the fiscal stimulus and VAT cut now widely being recognised as complete failures. and simply putting more debt on our shoulders.

Ian is a bit of cowardly lion, a prospective tory candidate if you ask me.....


124

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 09:53:26
151
Perhaps you could share with us what you imagine something 'specific' to Scotland actually is?
125

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:55:21

152. So that's all being Scottish means to you, it's a postcode lottery.

Grahamksi, I know your as thick as two short planks and have read one too many penguin guides to socialist anarchy but have you ever came across the idea of 'culture'.

You know, that stuff that historians document, that we revel in, what makes us different and what we celebrate along with every other nation in the world.

Why do you continually refuse to accept it and denigrate key component so the Scottish identity.



Are you patriot Graham?




126

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:55:42

154. Language
127

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:56:23

154. Arts & Literature
128

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:57:12

154. Education System
129

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:57:28

154. Legal System
130

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 09:57:52
155
Disappointed you resort to personal attack so soon. Disappointed but not surprised.
156
I think you'll find other countries use language too.
131

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:58:10

154. Parliamentary System
132

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:58:10

154. Parliamentary System
133

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 09:59:02

154. Tradition of Enquiry & Research
134

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:08:32
Wardog,
How is an education system, a legal system 'specific' to Scotland. What country has no tradition of enquiry and research?
It's like claiming you're proud to be Scottish because Scotland has grass.....
135

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:08:41

154. Scottish Public Service
136

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:08:53

154. Scottish Charity
137

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:09:21
167
Public service - specific to Scotland?
138

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:09:41
Scottish air
139

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:09:57
Scottish mud
140

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:10:09
Scottish weeds
141

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 10:10:13
(#4) – (Jimmy Le Pie) – Have we really had this material on a daily basis? I couldn’t say.
Wouldn’t a real journalist follow up a story considered to be in the public interest? Like this one.

(#8) – (Jimmy Le Pie) – You are a well read individual and so prolific too. Who would have thought you would have had enough time for a story you consider to be not worth a paper writing.

(#15) – (Jimmy Le Pie) – I always believe the story deserves the reader. This however doesn’t guarantee the quality of the story. Though a reader who slates a newspaper and still continually returns to read it deserves everything they get.

(#76) – (Jimmy Le Pie) – LIT is not legally in place as yet, and can not be considered a legal tax as yet. In this respect Grahamski has a point. In all other respects only time will tell.
142

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:10:31

166. Grahamski

You entirely miss the point don't you.

Every nation has an education system that is DIFFERENT.

It has qualities which make it SPECIFIC

That specificity makes it SCOTTISH

Am i getting through or can we assume your really are a thick bar steward

143

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:10:43
Scottish starlings
144

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 10:13:36
175
After this post assume I will not reply to any posts from you which are abusive.
Bar steward indeed.
145

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:13:47

Grahamski

You really are soulless aren't you.

Thank christ we don't live in your world graham, the soviet diktat of falkirk where everyone is equal and approved., there is no difference because we're all the same, variety will not be tolerated never mind celebrated or acknowledged for fear of upsetting someone.

What a nob you are.


146

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:16:25

179. Indeed.

He's obviosuly read too many 'introduction to socialism and political anarchy'......

I'm fairly certain that oor graham was Hamish McKropotkin in a previous life.

yes, the same poster that expressed anarachist beliefs, refused to countenance any form of national identity but then went on te campaing trail with Labour in Glasgow East.

Hypocrits of the worst kind.

147

Queen D,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 10:16:53
I really am fed up with the continual anti SNP rubbish printed in this and other papers.
The Telegraph and Mr Cochrane ,doing his usual anti SNP "can't write anything else but anti SNP " and his dear wife in the Times " can't write anything else but anti SNP" add the Herald , the Scotsman and the BBC to that ,and we have a totally imbalanced media.
I can't be bothered signing in to the Telegraph to rant at the Cochrane person( for whom I did not vote!)
Perhaps some other could, on the other hand it might convince editor and advertiser that he matters so don't bother.
Interestingly, there are so few contributors to the Herald site that I suspect advertisers will be taking their business elsewhere.
What then for the once mighty Herald?
I know they'll be able to point to the " downturn" but how then do they explain the Sun and Record continuing to sell papers? Not to mention my beloved Press and Journal?
148

SEUMAS,

fearn 08/01/2009 10:17:20
Tartan Army 74###
When I see macdonnell's name at the head of an article--Ijust pass on to the next page.
149

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:18:13

Grahamksi

I'd love to hear your thoughts on other nations.

Do you think the French should continue to speak French in the face of American English's dominance?
150

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:19:44


182. Alan Cochrane a self confessed 'dark hearted unionist'

151

It's me!,

08/01/2009 10:21:32
Iain McMillan is more concerned that he and his members will no longer be subsidised by the poorly paid.
152

Wardog™,

08/01/2009 10:23:00

THE TIMES: Council tax debt-chasers on £600 an hour
Some householders who owe less than £2,000 in arrears are suddenly faced with a bill of up to £50,000 and forced to sell their homes because of the exorbitant fees which kick in after bankruptcy.

The latest figures, obtained through the Freedom of Information Act and published in The Times yesterday, show that up to 5,000 householders were pursued for bankruptcy last year and at least 1,000 were made bankrupt.

Value for Money?

Fair taxation System?

Socially divisive based on property areas

153

AJ Fife,

08/01/2009 10:26:56
'Mr McMillan refused to give details of the companies involved or the scale of the business opportunities that had been put on hold.'

More Unionist fibs then?
154

Rosscobhoy,

08/01/2009 10:31:36
#150

I blame the English for nothing. I blame the United Kingdom for a hell of a lot though. Problem is a lot of people elsewhere in the world equate the UK/Britain/England as the same thing. That's not my problem. For the record, i don't really like the SNP or Alex Salmond, but i am a strong believer that self rule, making decisions for yourself and to meet your own needs, is by far the best option for Scotland. Nationalism goes far futrther than supporting the SNP, and i'd hazard a guess that for most SNP voters, like me, they see the party as a means to an end. I'd also say that on both sides, the level of maturity shown by a lot of those arguing regularly on the threads here is probably on a par with my 12 year old brother. It's not all one sided.
155

morris,

edinburgh 08/01/2009 10:34:15
Can anyone actually name a single company who were considering locating in Scotland and have decided against it because of the Local Income Tax which does not as yet exist?Answers on a postage stamp please.
You could claim every single organisation in the world is on the list,and it would still be a load of total twaddle!

The naming of a single one would infinitely increase this articles credibility from NONE whatsoever to whatever is the stage above NONE !For the sake of reference I shall afford it recognition and call it ONE ,or to be more precise "One more" than the NONE we actually can name so far!

The simple fact is the majority of people benefit overall from a local income tax which is why MANY NATIONS are using a similar type of scheme.They have NOT been starved of industries locating there.The facts as usual show the UNIONIST argument up as being a load of nonsense designed for consumption by anyone daft enough to believe it!
156

Elephant,

08/01/2009 10:46:34
Late to this debate as always but..
#84
"BTW, the same could be said of the palpablee loathing of Scots, Scotland and Independence by the pro onionists and/or non Scottish people."
I hesitate to ask if you are the only inhabitant on your isle, but your perspective is totally paranoid. I can only imagine this sweeping statement is a reflection of your own inate racism. To say the Scots are loathed by pro-unionists or non-Scots is ridiculous and wrong. For a start nearly 10% of people who live here are non-Scots. They've CHOSEN to be here absolutely because they like this land and its people. Scotishness and Scots culture is highly accorded all over the world - and especially in our near neighbours. Americans positively whoop-the-whoop when you mention you're from Scotland. And forget not that the English are the biggest consumers of our tourism, tipples and financial services. Many down south love working with Scots and good grief, even marry us. In my experience the English have a diffidence to the notion of Scottishness and indeed Englishness. If this is a 'problem' for the SNP then by all means address it, but do not seed lies that the average non-Scot dislikes us or our nation.
157

Darien,

Panama 08/01/2009 10:48:18
Iain McMillan, director of the CBI in Scotland, obviously has not noticed that inward investment in Scotland dried up more than 10 years ago. Union Dividend means a high tax regime and no inward investment, and limited competitiveness.

An independent Scotland would be a low tax regime. The SNP have already said that is their policy. But the Scottish Parish Council Parliament does not have the powers to do that. So we are stuck with Gordon Brown and the UK's high tax regime so long as we are stuck in the UKofGB&NI.

McMillan is simply another British Nationalist who is prepared to sell Scotland down the swanney in a vain Britain plc pipe-dream and a knighthood. Britain plc is now well and truly bust! Britain plc aint coming back from this one, even with the next 30 years of Scotland's oil. The only hope for Scotland is an independent Scotland plc and oil at $100+/brl. McMillan can stick his knighthood up his er*e.
158

Itchy,

08/01/2009 10:58:48
"THE SNP's controversial local income tax plans have dissuaded companies from moving their operations to Scotland,"

The SNP tax plans have not been implemented.

By contrast, Labour's continual tax and regulation increases can hardly be described as pro wealth creation.
159

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 11:05:52
Grahamski

Coming from Falkirk have you ever come across ex Provost Marshall, who was provost in the 70's??
He was a Labour Sleaze worthy.
160

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 11:06:24
58 Fifi I assume you were drunk when you typed that drivel, or on the ganja, I hope so, for your sake.
161

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 11:08:36
59 Cynicus yes exactly. Lists of firms please being put off business in Scotland please. Mr McMillan should put up or shut up.
162

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 11:13:26
(#5) – (Cpt Incredible) – A paper’s reputation lies in its readership, including numerically, and going by this site a person could be forgiven for believing this one both serves those who agree with it politically, and those who don’t.
163

lulach mac gille coemgain,

08/01/2009 11:14:01
‘THE SNP's controversial local income tax plans have dissuaded companies from moving their operations to Scotland’

ahh . . . the Crystal Ball politics of the Scotsman eh ? Telling the Scottish Colony what’s happening to it.

We are grateful for you wise words oh grand superiors . . . I thank you and kiss your coat tail !
164

,

08/01/2009 11:17:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
165

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 11:21:42
KampungHighlander # 65

Dell set to cut 1,900 Irish jobs;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7817487.stm

Looks like Dell simply body swerved Salmond's Scottish economic utopia. Maybe, Dell, being Jewish, has seen the racist, homophobic and sectarian vitriol emanating here and elsewhere from the SNP support and decided it wasn't worth the risk.
166

brownlie,

08/01/2009 11:26:38
Looks as if this article is very good news for the SNP. In the second paragraph, Ian McMillan, head of the CBI, representing thousands of firms/businesses in Scotland, freely admits, in the Scotsman, that only "several firms", out of thousands, had contacted ministers with their concerns.

It follows, therefore, that the vast majority of firms/businesses are in favour of, or not concerned regarding, LIT.
167

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 11:31:11
#201 Pope Churchill

So you are saying that Dell were going to relocate from Ireland to Scotland but changed their minds and decided to go where???

And the reason was LIT and homophobic racism on the part of the SNP???

Well I never??
168

brownlie,

08/01/2009 11:32:44
200 Nicol

Your moniker suggests uncertainty regarding your gender.

Dwarfing any claims by the Nats as the greatest and most risible fiction of modern times, which will go down in history, was the claim by Gordon that "we have saved the world".

This from the person who could not even save, and, indeed, squandered, the nation's money.
169

alanh,

ek 08/01/2009 11:35:09
#72 rules..

you say "Why must politicians always feel they have to do something over and above what works. If it ain't broke, then don't fix it should be the SNP slogan. (Mind you, then it has a problem with its own existence)."
Does that mean you think the council tax was fine and our govt should not have frozen it or try to find a fairer system to pay for local govt? And that we should just continue to make big business loads of cash by letting them used the discreditted PFI to build our capital projects?
170

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 11:39:40
Jimmy Le Pie # 203

Probably a combination of all, but, the Nationalist racism alone would enough, don't you think?
171

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 11:47:37
(#7) – (Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ) – Can a newspaper which is politically aligned, as the Scotsman, ever hold credibility by people who are not politically aligned with it? Do you hold any illusions to the Scotsman changing its position, or do you accept it will not in the foreseeable future?
172

Miss H,

08/01/2009 11:50:47
206 You are another one I can't figure out. Are you secretly an SNP supporter I wonder trying to discredit the SNP's opponents with your ridiculous assertions? If so, well done. If not, thanks anyway - you're doing a grand job for us.
173

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 11:54:46
206 Churchill#

SNP racism, rich coming from someone who is clearly a bigot and anti-Catholic such as youself.

What a nasty little unionist you are...all hatred and dribbling nonsense!
174

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 11:55:20
#206 Pope Churchill

Can you quote me any instance where Alex Salmond or any of his government made racist remarks??

And where are Dell going seeing as they've decided not to come to Scotland??
175

Miss H,

08/01/2009 11:58:02
58 Fifi La BonBon.

Sorry to be personal about this.

I think you are just a troll but if not you are seriously barking. Really and honestly. Get some help, you are simply not in touch with reality any more.
176

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 11:59:23
Dell being Jewish lol...now who would evr know that other than an anti-semite?

177

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:06:17
The Spook in Leith # 209

Hi Omar. Do you think I care if you read something that you don't like? Don't you like the truth?
That is the problem with you nationalists you have been talking amongst yourselves and not listening to anyone else. The SNP have one seat majority over their nearest rivals in the Scottish assembly and have interpreted that as a mandate from the Scottish people, which it is not. It was a protest vote Omar, get back to your toy blog where you call the shots, or, if you don't like what is said here, ram it.
178

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:07:00
216 Spook#

Of course he hasn't. Churchill is angry as the SNP are in power and the Scots are turning away from the union.

No surprise as his brand of unionism is racist and despicable and belongs in a housing estate in Bradford.

One of the reasons i support independence is because at it's core England and British Nationalism is the most despicable and detestable form of Facism-lite as dispalyed by Churchill.

Not what i ever want to see in Scotland!
179

Miss H,

08/01/2009 12:07:59
150 No SNP member or supporter has ever blamed 'England' for anything.

The fact that you interpret unhappiness with Westminster rule as unhappiness with 'England' says more about you than it does about the SNP.

180

Miss H,

08/01/2009 12:09:27
217 You just get better and better man. Keep it up.
181

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:09:40
217 Chruchill#

But the SNP are the largest party and that is becuase the Scots voted for them.

Clear enough isn't it?

Deal with it you loser..you are a relic and the sooner people like you dissapear from Scotland the better off the country will be!
182

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:10:37
The Spook in Leith # 216(2381)

It is supporters who are making the racist, sectarian, homophobic comments Omar. Can't you read?
Salmond took a chunk of change from Brian Souter, whose views on homosexuality are well known. It's politics Omar, what is meant is not usually spelt out in words of one syllable for the hard of comprehension.
Go back to your toy blog, where you criticise, but, do not allow criticism.
183

Alan B,

08/01/2009 12:11:42
"Iain McMillan, director of the CBI in Scotland" is losing all credibility with his irrational outbursts against. it must the first time the cbi says tax cut proposals are anti business.

Why would business not locate in scotland due to lit. Labours refusal to give scotland fiscal autonomy and thus not allowng the snp to implement its cut in corporation tax is causing more damage to the scottish economy.

184

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:11:42
222 Churchill#

Prove it with evidence, otherwise shut it..you are a dimwit and a bore!
185

ecosseman,

SCOTLAND 08/01/2009 12:14:06
PROPAGANDA MESSAGES SHOULD BE MADE ILLEGAL.WE WANT FACTS,NOT RUBBISH.
186

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:15:44
Nevsky # 221

It is not for you to decide, or even Salmond, who stays in Scotland and it never will. Get used to that you aerosol.
People like you, SNP supporters, are getting more vitriolic because you see the dream of your little free nation slipping away, once again. The Scottish people are more perceptive than you Natz give us credit for, we are not going to allow you lot to turn Scotland into an intolerant, insular place. "On yer bike..."

187

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 12:15:54
Just listening to FMQ's.

Alex Salmond 1 The Rest lost!!
188

TWC,

08/01/2009 12:16:12
The CBI do not care about ordinary people, they are only interested in the Directors and their Shareholders.
Take a look over the last 50 years nothing has changed that was why Hardie & Graham created a Labour party and thereafer the Unions.
New Labour do not represent those beliefs anymore.
189

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 12:19:39
Hard as it seems I think we should all ignore our pet half-wit, Churchill W.

Would you debate with a moron? - no you'd pity them.

Best ignore the buffoon and leave the debating to the adults.
190

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 12:20:15
229 the CBI is the bosses union. They are representing their members, many of whom will end up paying more when LIT is introduced. That is obvious to a blind man, they have a clearly vested interest in lining their own pockets. So it's quite funny seeing New Labour and their supporters lining up behind them.
191

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:22:54
227 Chruchill#

That is where you are quite wrong. I have supported independence for a long time and unless it has escaped your attention you dribbling moronic apath..the SNP are in power in Scotland; something that was unthinkable 20 years ago.

The landscape has changed for good and that is what you and your ilk despise. Your finally being questioned on where your loyalty lies and you just can't handle it can you?

Hence the reason to label the SNP with arguments that are laughable..becuase there is no arguement left for you is there...where is your defence of the great and beneficial union?

I hope Scotland in the future is rid for good in the future of the kind of mentality you display; you are a sick and bitter unionist puppy...but SNP optimism and independence will see you off..in the bin of history!


192

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:26:23
The Spook in Leith # 226

You don't debate Omar, you are not capable of debate. I have seen examples of your "debating" skills on other websites. What you do is issue a diatribe of other peoples opinions and very selected cut'n paste examples. You are a fascist Omar, brainwashed and easily lead. Like most fascists you have no imagination. Your gratuitous insults above demonstrate that. You have delusions of adequacy which are not fulfilled, the only skin you should worry about Omar is your own, you don't get under mine.
I'm sure your mother will be delighted to know that she has bred a little Fascist. How are the Spartans FC doing?


193

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 12:31:05
(#9) – (Charles Linskaill) – I’m open minded on this question, though find myself slightly leaning towards agreeing with you on the economic climate theory you have put forward. Dell for instance have picked Poland for to be “more competitive”, a euphemism for cost cutting for profit.

(#44) – (Charles Linskaill) – What you say sounds fair, though as things stand am I not right in thinking LIT has an equally sticky position with those who are not wage earners, but do receive money through over mean like investments and other funds.
194

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:31:55
235 Churchill#

You can label who you like as what you like but it doesn't mean it is the truth.

Produce evidence of you are going to call someone a facist don't just mouth off with abuse and make yourself look like a tool which is exactly what you are...plenty evidence above to support this label as far as you are concerned!

Why don't you just leave the boards..you are leaving a pretty nasty stench!
195

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:33:21
Nevsky # 234

I have said before I don't belong to an ilk, lodge, chapel, church or political party.
The story above is not about the Union, it is about how SNP policies are being scrutinised and dismissed as impractical by people who should know. The political landscape has not changed, there is no grass-roots demand for Scottish independence, except amongst your ginger group. There is even less ground swell for what is a very authoritarian, racist, homophobic, sectarian party, the SNP.
If you don't believe your friends are all these things, re-read the posts above and a few from yesterday, even you will get the picture.

196

Moder8,

EDINBURGH 08/01/2009 12:40:05
Perhaps this should have been the banner headline,
"Mr McMillan refused to give details of the companies involved or the scale of the business opportunities that had been put on hold."
There is no content in this article to justify the headline.
"SNP tax plans 'scaring off firms'"

197

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:40:14
The Spook in Leith # 238

Your vanity will be your undoing. You sound like a small brat railing because nobody will listen to you. So, your blog got a mention, did they pay you for it?

Nevsky # 239

Where do you get off telling people what to do? Take yourself and your filthy Natz friends away with you and the smell will go away too. Your nose is too near your friends rear-ends. Form a circle...

None of you Natz can face the facts, Salmond's policies are unworkable. Now, have you lot not got a bridge to build, or something?
198

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 12:42:36
Churchill is an even bigger troll than Fifi. I think it's time they both retired, all they do is make complete fools of themselves posting made up lies and nonsense. It's quite revealing of them 'though - and embarrassing for everyone else who has the misfortune to read their posts.
199

brownlie,

08/01/2009 12:42:54
238 Spook

Hi, Omar, John Brownlie here. Churchill aka Playground Paisley Pete was trying to suggest that there was some kind of connection between us. Can you confirm that we have never met except through this and other forums?

Did you notice that, according to the CBI, only several firms out of the thousands they represent, are against LIT?

PS: See you on Saturday for a few pints after the game, pal!!
200

Churchill W.,

08/01/2009 12:44:39
Post 242

I always know when you Natz have had enough, fakirs like you appear on the boards.
My job is done for the time being, Omar Kader (Spook in Leith) has been put back in his kiddy pen and Natz supporters lunch is ruined.
All you need are a few good policies and nobody can laugh or scorn you. But, you lot are too keen to score points to be a serious political party.
201

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:44:48
241 Churchill#

'There is even less ground swell for what is a very authoritarian, racist, homophobic, sectarian party, the SNP'

These are all the things you would like the SNP to be but unfortunately they are none of the above and you are way way off track.

Can you provide evidence to substatiate one word of what you claim?

What you have quoted above sounds just like the tone in most of your posts though; coincidence?

202

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:47:04
248 Churchill#

Maybe you should post your name then seeing as you are willing to throw about Spook's name..or are you a unionist coward as well?
203

TWC,

08/01/2009 12:47:56
Fellow posters, Nats and Tolerant Unionists, you need to realise That Churchill and about 6 other posters, we do not need to name, are supporters, mainly of one party who are angry with the Scots for wanting to change the financial Status quo.
Some of us want Independence some of us want Financial Control but we do want progress.
New Labour want nothing for Scotland and only want to support their masters (New Labour)
They offer nothing but personal attacks, mainly on the Nats, because they have stolen all the socialist policies including the spreading of wealth to the poor.
LIT is a good idea and Old Labour would have been delighted to support it.

204

Grahamski,

08/01/2009 12:48:09
219
you said:

'No SNP member or supporter has ever blamed 'England' for anything.'

I'll give you a few minutes to recant and admit you got a wee bit carried away and then I'll have a wee look at what SNP supporters have said about England on the web.
So, one last chance to take back that quite frankly ludicrous assertion....
205

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 12:53:22
253 I have always been of the view that the anti-English rants you do encounter on here are posted by unionist trolls. If you can list any anti-english statements by the SNP supporters who post regularly on this site and are clearly identifiable as individual posters and not multi monikered trolls then please feel free to do so. I think you will find it hard.
206

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 12:57:09
253 Grah#

Not as many as the anti-Scottish posts put up by unionists i am reckoning..the 'we cannae dae it' brigade.as well those jumping with delight when HBOS and RBS were in difficulties.

Some Scots hate their own country more than they could ever hate their beloved England!

207

Brian the Barbarian.,

the slums 08/01/2009 13:01:22
Why worry at all ?

just stay in La la land with John Swinney who was able last year to give £400,000.00 of Scottish taxpayers money to the Glasgow Islamic Studies centre.

If he is able to do this then there can be no shortage of money and he can always screw us for more when required, unless you are the one in four who is a public servant, who have a cushy job, 15% higher wages than the private sector , longer holidays, more sick days and an inflation proof pension who will get a wage rise to cover the new tax.
Who in their right mind would open a business in basket case Scotland where the incentive to attract staff is to announce, once you have paid your tax we will have another scoop at the pot.
208

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 13:02:59
259ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
209

TWC,

08/01/2009 13:12:40
#259 Boring

Swinney has his failings even the Nats admit it but if there was anybody half as good as him in the Labour party he must be dead.
210

Miss H,

08/01/2009 13:20:27
253 I won't recant anything.

People like you love to portray the SNP as being anti-English.

Perhaps you genuinely do not understand why people like me want Scotland to be independent and to have the same responsibilities and opportunities as other nations. If that is the case you are just lazy or blinkered because the arguments are out there.

Or perhaps you have no arguments to make against independence so you just label the SNP as anti-English (or racist, or sectarian, or homophobic, or Nazi, or left wing or right wing or tartan Tories or socialists or whatever happens to occur to you) because you are incapable of making a positive case for the Union.
211

Hugh Roscombe,

08/01/2009 13:25:50
This is an old story re-hashed by the Hootsman to get more "clicks."

It was on 30th October 2008 and got 12 comments with 7 removed and one banning.

http://news.scotsman.com/politics/Business-anger-over-cost-of.4643319.jp



212

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:31:08
'Business knows what's best for business'. Anyone who knows what's been going on in the last few months could quite easily argue that point, Mr. MacMillan.

'Unfair' is how the Tories describe it. I can't see what's wrong with a tax where you pay the same proportion of your income for services. To me that seems perfectly fair.

We've to wait until 2011 for the Labour alternative to Council Tax which Iain Gray said prior to his election was his top priority. That will explain why the former administration achieved virtually nothing in eight years.

As usual we have stories backed up by no evidence whatsoever passed off as fact. If that's all it takes to get into a national newspaper give me a call. I'm sure I could come up with some corkers. This would save you having to regurgitate the same story you ran a fortnight ago, and the fortnight before that and the....basically the same story you've continued to peddle since the LIT was announced.
213

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 13:36:26
From the Times today some quotes from oor Gordon. It seems that he has finally accepted his part in the UKs meltdown...mmm or has he:

“The first thing on my mind is that I'm here to help the families and businesses in this country come through this global problem.”

“We are doing everything to deal with what is a global financial crisis that is hitting Britain"

'Mr Brown acknowledged that rising unemployment was “tough” but insisted that jobs were being lost all over the world'

'Similarly, car manufacturers were being hit by a global financial “seizure” that had to be tackled on an international level, he said.'

Wait a minute..what Global problem....i was sure Gordon said he had saved the world a few weeks ago??
214

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 13:38:45


Only Labour and the Tories are able to look after our Big Business and keep them in money, the SNP have no idea how to fill the trough.

Local Taxation should be undertaken by private firms under a new PPP contract, this is the best way to maximise profit.

215

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:39:16
Miss H, don't you know the benefits of the union. Gordon Brown keeps telling us 'everyone knows the benefit' but I don't. I've asked on and off for months for someone to enlighten me but no one seems able to tell me. I still await someon putting a case for the union
216

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:42:05
As a final point, from the figures I've seen, LIT will cost millions less each year to administer as opposed to CT.
217

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 13:43:39
269 Grahamski#

Where have you been for the past few months? You talking about the the big businesses going bankrupt on a daily basis within the union that you are so proud to be a part of?

Can you name 1 business that has failed due to any SNP policy?
218

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:47:44
Nevsky, all you need to know:

Things going wrong - it's a global problem we can do nothing about

Things go right - government action has sorted that.

Day after day, as things get worse, Gordon trots out 'global conditions' as his excuse for everything. You either can or can't do anything about it. Don't take people for idiots by picking and choosing. The fact of the matter is that the goverment is virtually powerless in all of this and has no idea what's going to happen. Most of what they have done is merely to appear as though they're doing something. Absolutely pointless.
219

brownlie,

08/01/2009 13:52:30
269 Grahamski

Significant that you associate Labour and Tory with the "trough".

Is your last sentence based on how well and expensive and disfunctional the privatisation of military training is going?
220

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:52:37
Nevsky, no he can't. If he could he'd be shouting it from the rooftops, proud as punch. Very sad. Seems to me the whole argument works on the premise that if you shout it loud enough and often enough people will believe it. A bit like in Glenrothes with the scare stories about care charges. The SNP were naive in not asking if these charges were so unfair why does Labour charge even more in Glasgow. Hopefully the same mistake won't be made again.
221

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:53:27
Nevsky, no he can't. If he could he'd be shouting it from the rooftops, proud as punch. Very sad. Seems to me the whole argument works on the premise that if you shout it loud enough and often enough people will believe it. A bit like in Glenrothes with the scare stories about care charges. The SNP were naive in not asking if these charges were so unfair why does Labour charge even more in Glasgow. Hopefully the same mistake won't be made again.
222

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 13:54:37
273 Boab#

The point is that Brown was at the helm when every major financial decision was taken that would affect this country.

He knows all the bankers and has wined and dined with them for 15 years.

He had the Treasury and hundreds of advisors including academics.

Yet he was not aware of the possible consequences of his policy and now it is and never has been anyting to do with his policy or decisions.

Perhaps the question that should be is is why the UK seems to have the most fragile of all developed economies?

We all know the answer and so will the electorate..i am just waiting for the English media to start tearing him to pieces..it won't be long!
223

Boab1,

08/01/2009 13:55:09
Apologies for posting twice. My PC has been going haywire today!
224

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 13:56:14
272
Aye very good, in the meantime auld Sean has been on the phone to Martin Shaw getting tips on how to deal with stalkers.....
225

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 13:56:50

272 Woolies
226

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 13:58:55
Which Grahamski do readers like the most I wonder ?
227

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 13:59:37

274 PPP has been a resounding success with over £800 Million in profits for banks and big business being paid annually by Scottish Tax payers from our Block Grant.

This money is keeping big business big, people in work and director's in big houses which in turn pay high rate council tax.

The sooner the whole army is PPP the better



228

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 14:05:54
Brown internationall humiliated again..seems Sarkozy will be granted an audience much to Brown's dismay..

"Gordon will have to wait almost three months," says Mandrake's man at Number 10. "Obama will not see him before the G20 conference in London in April."

It had been widely reported that Brown, who has declared that he intends to create "a transatlantic, and then a global, coalition for change", was due to meet Obama in February, but a Downing Street spokesman admits this will not happen. "I am sure Obama's schedule will be extremely busy," the spokesman tells me. "Nothing has been planned for the moment."

You would think Obama would be champing at the it to meet the saviour of the world..seems not!
229

Boab1,

08/01/2009 14:08:14
Nevsky, I agree 100%. All the things he said needed sorted out prior to Labour winning the election i.e. house prices spiralling out of control etc, he did absolutely nothing about once in a position to do so.
230

Davie08,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 14:11:18
Iain MacMillan has been the 'Chicken Little' of Scottish politics for years, insisting that the sky was falling whenever any form of constitutional, or indeed any change, is proposed. I am sure he deplores the fact that you can't employ 10 year olds in factories as it could 'scare off' potential investors. Still he is good for a quote for lazy journalists on a slow news day. Pity it is always the same quote.
BTW this Churchill person reminds me of a fakey that haunted the Herald boards for a while. Ignore him.
231

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 14:12:11

283 Obama is Brown and Brown is Obama, Brown has effectively saved the world from itself, god only knows what would have happened had he not been in charge over the last 12 years.

Brown managed to take over the improving economy from the Tories at just the right time and look how he managed that inheritance.

yes we are in dire straights now but we've had a whole decade of massive credit, PPP, big business deals and international acclaim.

Could you imagine Salmond saving the world?


232

brownlie,

08/01/2009 14:14:18
282 Grahamski

It is with no satisfaction and, indeed, a great deal of regret that I have, after your posting at #282, realised that you are stark, raving bonkers.
233

MoClana,

08/01/2009 14:17:12
Yawn...here we go again, Ian Mc Union Jack Millan breaks wind and Hamish is on the case.

Who else gives this man, who is supposed to have Scottish Business Interests at heart as much press repeating the same old Unionist scare stories ? I cant think of any other paper who treats Ian McMillan with any seriousness, there is no exclusive in speaking to the man and you would be as well going down to Labour HQ if it is a quick basless anti SNP story you want.

We all know the criticism Hamish McDonnell takes for his shameless partisan journalism, but this is simply extracting the Urine.

Not reporting, not journalism, not news full stop, and one can only hope that by nailing himself to the Unionist mass that he drowns as quickly as possible along with the other so called journalists.

Rufus T Fire whatever... interesting you think LIT is dead, as clearly you do not work and it therefore has no direct impact on you. If you were a tax payer then you would be better off under it, and your postings might stop. But considering you are a Labour Troll, bending over as much as possible to be noticed i doubt you have any real comprehension of the world outside your door.
Imagine if every story reported on the rantings of Ian McMillan began...'Ian McMillan says' then most would wonder just who the fek is this guy making the Scotsman news every day, and is he CBI leader in Scotland or a prospecting Labour candidate!

Hamish....even for you this piece is pathetic !
234

andrewshaw,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 14:18:39
I think the SNP should ditch the local income tax for an array of reasons. Firstly, it is reliant upon 'high employment', if the tax wealth recedes into the darkness so does the short fall in council revenues. The impact of this is even more pronounced due to labour not assigning council tax benefit under the LIT. Moreover, it is centralising political control over councils....they will be more dependent upon central government making up the whole in the budget because it would not bring in enough revenues due to the scotgov only being able to vary to 3 pence in the pound. This is bad because it then makes councils more reliant upon holyrood, and less accountable to their residents. Furthermore, it is not fair that someone with huge prsonal wealth staying in a mansion and not technically paying income tax being removed from another form of taxation. yes that is right all those billionaires from the highlands would be excluded from the local income tax and many other wealthy home owners. I am no fan of the council tax, but it is the only game in town!
235

brownlie,

08/01/2009 14:21:50
Damn,

I've been faked and taken in by a faker - all in the same day. Did anyone notice that Churchill spells faker as "fakir" in the same manner as Paisley Pete, Dane, Alfred etc etc?
236

,

08/01/2009 14:24:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
237

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 14:24:27

288. Moclana

Your simply wrong to suggest that as a tax payer we will be better off under LIT.

I will personally be paying far more than I have been based my ability to pay.

To date my council tax has been reduced because people like my next door neighbour, an elderly women who isn't very well, has been paying the same as me so proportionally I'm paying less.

Is it fair that indvidual people should have to pay for services?

Is it fair that those eanring more pay more and those eanring less pay less?

Is it fair that those on fixed incomes shouldn't hae to pay increasing charges?


nein danke, LIT is kaput



238

Hugh Roscombe,

08/01/2009 14:26:15
"Did anyone notice that Churchill spells faker as "fakir" in the same manner as Paisley Pete, Dane, Alfred etc etc?"

You've given the game away! How will we know who he'll be next - apart from the usual drivel he types.
239

Davie08,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 14:28:11
290
I think he is the same bloke who was faking wardog's moniker on the Herald. A sad case.
240

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 14:29:09
288 MoClana,08/01/2009 14:17:12

Rufus T Fire whatever... interesting you think LIT is dead, as clearly you do not work and it therefore has no direct impact on you. If you were a tax payer then you would be better off under it, and your postings might stop.
==================================================

Errmmm, NO.

I do work and I am a tax payer who will be much worse off.

So stop spouting drivel.
241

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 14:30:29
283 Nevsky,,

Nice double comma. Recovered from your ban?
242

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 14:32:52
Annabel gave Salmond a trouncing today at First Ministers Questions.

It was a pleasure to watch.
243

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 14:33:25

289. You are right Andrew, alone out of all taxes, LIT's take reduces in recession, unlike council tax which people still need to pay if they lose their job and have to work part-time to make some money or take a pay cut / reduced days.

I cannot agree.... with you more that increasing the 80% central grant handed out to councils will fundamentally damage their accountability, although councils will still need to be elected whichever tax system we use.

Billionaires shouldn't be exempt from local taxation, they should be paying the at the very least a few hundred more than those middle earners, this way, the lower earner because there are more of them help to subsidise big land owners, this helps keep Scotland's wildlife and scenery alive for tourists.

There is no chance that the SNP will introduced an elemnt o Land Value Taxation alongside LIT, togather with doubled rates ons econd homes..... they are just pretending they will.

I am a fan of the council tax too, it really is the only game in town!

I like Labour's new idea better though, linking local taxation to arbitrary house prices/values, that will ensure that Scotland's social rented sector pay their fair share! scum!


All this talk has got me so gee's up I think I'll make an advance payment of my council tax.



244

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 14:37:13

295. rufus

Totally right rufus, LIT will mean that the more you earn the more you pay, how can that possibly be fair. The SNP are a disgrace.
245

Grahamski',

Falkirk 08/01/2009 14:38:00

297. Rufus

Your not a Tory are you.....???

But I thought you were Labour?
246

Davie08,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 14:38:33
Now now who ever is faking grahamski stop it. He doesn't need your help to make a fool out of himself.
247

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/01/2009 14:39:46
297
It was a hoot to see Mr Salmond wither before Ms Goldie - a blustering cheeky wee boy caught by the headmistress telling lies about who nicked sweets from the tuck shop....
248

Miss H,

08/01/2009 14:46:47
289 That argument makes absolutely no sense.

The income threshhold at which you become liable to pay council tax and at which you would become liable to pay local income tax is exactly the same.

If a lot of people lose their jobs the amount raised in council tax will reduce just as the amount raised in local income tax would reduce.

However more people would pay local income tax than pay council tax so the loss of income would actually be less under the SNP's proposals.
249

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 14:48:06
#302 Yes it was so good I might watch it again tonight.

I like the 'opening of the baked beans tin' quip as well.
250

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 14:58:34
272 Nevsky,,Moscow 08/01/2009 13:43:39
Can you name 1 business that has failed due to any SNP policy?
===================================================
Zavvi
Woolworths
MFI
USC
Whittards
Adams
Viyella
The Officers Club


To name just a few.
251

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 15:01:38
Oh so its the SNP that's scaring off firms is it?
The Observer has a slightly different take:

"RSA threatens to join UK tax exiles in Ireland"
Richard Wachman
The Observer,
Sunday 21 September 2008

"RSA, the insurance company headed by Andy Haste, could join the growing band of companies that are quitting Britain because of what they see as a punitive tax regime.

Haste says no firm decision has been made but that the clock is ticking because the company could save £50m - 10 per cent of annual profits - if it moved to Dublin, where rates of corporation tax are much lower. A move to the Republic of Ireland is under 'active consideration', he added.

Last month, office rental group Regus joined fund manager Henderson and engineering firm Charter when it announced that it planned to relocate to Ireland for tax reasons..."

Last I heard about 1 in 3 UK CEOs were actively considering moving their companies out ok the UK to escape Brown/Darling's 'punative tax regime'.
252

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 15:04:39
305 Rufus-T-Firefly,
Clarify if you would how the SNP has brought down these companies?
253

MoClana,

08/01/2009 15:07:30
Rufus - dont talk nonsense, you clearly do not work, and if you do, what work do you actually do in between haunting the Scotsmans comments pages 24/7?

If i was your boss I would sack you for

A: Talking mince 24/7
B: Being a lazy barsteward.

Work bwahahaaa nice one !
254

TWC,

08/01/2009 15:10:26
286 Grahamski',
Obama not meeting Brown but having a meeting with the French is really significant.
He doesn't see Brown as a player, which means we really are in the sh@*.
Also LIT is infinitely better than the Council Tax for all but the rich.
Certainly it is mathematically INFINITELY better than the Labour proposal. Since Something/0 equals Infinity
255

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:13:19
308 MoClana,08/01/2009 15:07:30
Rufus - dont talk nonsense, you clearly do not work,
If i was your boss I would sack you for
=====================================================

If you were my boss?

Thats a rather big 'If' isn't it?

A bit like..............

If Scotland was independent...................Never happen.

If Alex Salmond had any power ...................Never happen.

If SNP built a new school ...................Never happen.

256

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:14:23
305 Rufus#

Ah i was not aware that the SNP has pursued any fiscal policy during their time in power tha has led to a weakening of the Scottish economy that has led directly to the failure of companies.

All the companies have failed because the UK had the boom and there was and is nothing to back up the bust!

All these companies have their HQs in London don't they Rufus..are you stating that the SNP is responsable for the bankruptcy of national companies whose HQs are not even situated in Scotland?

Care to explain your logic (not that this word ever applies to any of your posts).

Rufus..remeber..it's a global problem and not of Gordon's making..that is why Obama has put him to the bottom of the 'to do' list!
257

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 15:14:27
#305 Rufus

Here are a few you missed Rufus,

Farepak
Rolls Razor,
British Caledonian,
Laker Airways,
Court Line,
Enron,
Worldcom,
British Leyland,
Rover,
Lehman Brothers,
BCCI,

All can be blamed on Alex Salmond!!
258

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:15:13
309 I must have annoyed somebody earlier,Namechange City 08/01/2009 15:08:13
305

You sir are just plain rubbish. Leave this thread forthwith.
=======================================================

Sorry for disturbing you with my disagreeable posts.

I will never post on here again.

Sorry for wasting your time.
259

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:16:19
309 I must have annoyed somebody earlier,Namechange City 08/01/2009 15:08:13
305

You sir are just plain rubbish. Leave this thread forthwith.
=======================================================

I changed my mind.

I am back.

Dont forget to add Klick to the list.
260

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:17:16
Rufus..why is it stil a globla problem..i thought Bron had sorted that all out?

Instead he has not the faintest idea of what he is doing..everything has failed..the latest idea...let's print money...the absolute last throw of the dice before a hand out from the IMF..will be an embarassing time for you and your sycophantic wee fingers!
261

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 15:18:35
Will all the Unionists who complained about Alex Salmond and his cabinet meeting around the country, complain now that Comrade Broon and his Sleaze Party cabinet are doing similar meetings at a cost of £300,000 a go.

They've just been in Liverpool.

Silence - just as I thought!
262

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:19:32
312 Nevsky,,Moscow 08/01/2009 15:14:23
305 Rufus#

Ah i was not aware that the SNP has pursued any fiscal policy during their time in power tha has led to a weakening of the Scottish economy that has led directly to the failure of companies.

All the companies have failed because the UK had the boom and there was and is nothing to back up the bust!

All these companies have their HQs in London don't they Rufus..are you stating that the SNP is responsable for the bankruptcy of national companies whose HQs are not even situated in Scotland?
====================================================

HAHAHA Nevsky.

Hook, line and sinker!
263

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:25:14
Rufus#

1600 jobs to go in Sunderland Nissan have just announced. Where is Brown? Not his fault of course it is a 'global' problem!

But i thought he had sotred this all out..no? No answers Rufus..as usual?
264

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:28:25


I am half way through a colonscopy, I'm luving it!

I'm commenting from my blackberry...... oooooooow

265

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:28:53

323. PPP?
266

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 15:29:21
(#10) – (Union is ¬Best) – I find taking a deep breath and counting to ten helps better than allowing frustration to take over me. Otherwise I think it would be quite easy to lose yourself in sarcasm.

(#12) – (Union is ¬Best) – Obsessing is not a healthy trait in anyone. Would you have not been better off finding something to say about the story above?
(#17) – (Union is ¬Best) – Why are you finding a need to repeat your distain for someone you believe isn’t worth reading?







267

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:30:52

321 J R Firefly

"hook, line & stinker"

Labour and the Tories should form a new executive using PPp for everything from the army, through to nannies and the forth road bridge.

PPP is amazing

268

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:32:48
324 Nevsky,,Moscow 08/01/2009 15:25:14
Rufus#

1600 jobs to go in Sunderland Nissan have just announced. Where is Brown? Not his fault of course it is a 'global' problem!
======================================================
All the worlds major economies are in a recession.

This may surprise you Nevsky but when you are in a recession, people lose jobs.

Unless of course you lived in an independent Scotland with Salmond in charge.

Then we would have full employment.

The streets would be paved with Gold, and a new Forth Bridge would not be needed as everybody would fly back and forward between Edinburgh and Fife using their own private spacecrafts.
269

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:34:08
328 Grahamski',08/01/2009 15:30:52
=======================================

Get your own id you idiot.
270

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 15:35:58
How come these companies keep on failing,
Gordon Brown has already saved the world?

Is this another case of the Great British public not understanding the message, or is it Alex Salmond doing it just to pick fights with Westminster?
271

brownlie,

08/01/2009 15:38:13
327 Ewan Randall

Hope I'm not being impolite, Ewan, but why do you wait until those who've posted have left the site before you comment on them?
272

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:38:35
327 Ewan Randall,08/01/2009 15:29:21
(#10) – (Union is ¬Best) – I find taking a deep breath and counting to ten helps better than allowing frustration to take over me. Otherwise I think it would be quite easy to lose yourself in sarcasm.

(#12) – (Union is ¬Best) – Obsessing is not a healthy trait in anyone. Would you have not been better off finding something to say about the story above?
(#17) – (Union is ¬Best) – Why are you finding a need to repeat your distain for someone you believe isn’t worth reading?
===================================================
Exactly Ewan, me and my shadow.

He tries to 'communicate' with me every day.

He would have more success with Martin Shaw.
273

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:39:11

329. That's right Rufus, all the worlds 'major' economies are in a recession including America, Japan, Italy, Germany and Japan.

I don't think china and other countries that have large savings or many oil-producing countries, are in recession though

Is Gordon Brown going to be using our oil fund to get the UK out of these problems that started in america?




274

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:41:51


330. Rufus die Unaussprechlichen
275

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:43:27
Nearly chocked on my glass of vino reading this 5 minutes ago from Brown on the BBC:

'Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said Britain must be a leader in the "new type of world economy", as his cabinet held a meeting in Liverpool'

That 'new type' would be 'bankrupt' i presume.

So far Brown has called for a new world order, pan-global this and that...international framework blah blah blah...world banking regulations yawn yawn..

This man has totally lost touch and is on some loony tune spaceship...absolute failure and nutter!
276

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 15:46:20
"FIRST Minister Alex Salmond has written to the Israeli ambassador calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, he confirmed today.
He told MSPs that Scots had been "shocked" by the scenes from the Middle East in recent days."

After opening the letter the Israeli ambassador called a press conference and said "Alex who?".
277

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:46:41


336. Don't you dare talk about an invalid like that you scum

He saved the world, can't you understand that, they will make a film about it in years to come
278

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:47:20
Come on Rufus..you are Brown's biggest sycophant in Scotland..yet strangely quiet on Inter-Galactic Commander Brown's lunacy.

So for all his suposed knowledge on macro-economics and micro-chips...his solution is um...errr...mmm..

let's print more money and the problem will all go away...brilliant..quite brilliant!
279

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:48:10


337. Your right Rufus, let the arabs die without a murmur

280

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:49:29


Is just me is Rufus quite right wing?

In a nasty bigoted xenophobic kind of way.

281

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:49:37
337 Rufus#

That would be a slightly more open response than Obama stating:

'meet Brown..that nutcase..forget it..he's a pure bampot..tell him i am busy and get me Mr Sarkozy on the phone'
282

Jimmy Le Pie,

08/01/2009 15:51:08
Eddie the Eagle went bankrupt - that would be down to Alex Salmond too???
283

brownlie,

08/01/2009 15:51:38
336 Nevsky

I thought the "save the world" comment was a slip of the tongue but the more I listen to Brown the more I think that he really believes that he is a "world leader". How sad and how worrying a trait is that?
284

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 15:54:31
I prefer the fake unionists. They aren't as nasty as the real ones. Taking the urine out of the massacre in Gaza to make a peurile point on a newspaper website is beyond the pale.
285

brownlie,

08/01/2009 15:56:51
345 sm753

First Traitor??? Please explain?

At least he's not as hypocritical as Brown. I don't remember him calling for a cease-fire when defenceless and innocent Iraqis were being slaughtered with his collusion.
286

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 15:57:36
345 sm753#

Fairly distasteful comment even for you but i'm happy you have a friend in Rufus!

287

Grahamski',

08/01/2009 15:58:27
345

Hey sm753, how's it hanging? (when you getting it cut off?)

I think Israel are small and independent but someone mentioned to me that they've got nukes and can get a bit arsey if you put off fireworks outside 5th November.

Guy falks, now he knew how to deal with scotch traitors.

Are you still coming over to my house to watch the boxset of queens speechs?

I think being a queen would so great.



288

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:01:10
345 sm753,08/01/2009 15:51:53
333

Hey RTF

I see our First Traitor is wasting his time and our money writing notes to the Israelis about Gaza.
=====================================================

Yes sm753 it is somewhat unbelievable but believable at the same time.

I wonder if he wrote to the Hamas leaders asking them to stop firing missiles into residential areas of Israel as they have been doing for the last 8 years.
289

ricky40,

08/01/2009 16:02:55
333 Rufus T Firefly

What a pathetic and deluded individual you really are! Union is Best successfully and wittily takes the mickey out of posters who are infinitely more intelligent than you!
290

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 16:06:17
Rufus#

Anyway back to Brown..any idea why Obama has bumped him when Brown has clearly saved the western world for collapse?

Bit of a slap in the face really don't you think and hardly the response you would have been looking for!
291

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:06:22
346 Observer,,Glasgow 08/01/2009 15:54:31
I prefer the fake unionists. They aren't as nasty as the real ones. Taking the urine out of the massacre in Gaza to make a peurile point on a newspaper website is beyond the pale.
=====================================================

I was right.

Observer has an RSS feed to her brain that tells hetr when Israel gets mentioned on these forums.

As soon as the electronic pulse reaches her brain, she switches off Jeremy Kyle and logs on to express her outrage that we mentioned it.
292

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 16:07:49
#337 Rufus-T-Firefly

When at the height of the Miners' Strike in 1985 Margaret Thatcher proposed to abolish student grants, her MPs were bombarded by letters of complaint from parents.
The Lady who was 'not for turning' immediately did a volte-face and gave in, it took Honest Tony's first cabinet to introduce means testing for higher education.

The point being: if no-one complains then clearly everything is hunky-dory continue as you were.

Every politician, but particulary those elected to high office, is morally obliged at the very least to make their views and those they represent known.

For evil to prevail takes good men to do nothing... or bad men to pi$$ them off enough so they give up.

But then you already know that...

293

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:07:49
351 ricky40,08/01/2009 16:02:55
333 Rufus T Firefly
What a pathetic and deluded individual you really are! Union is Best successfully and wittily takes the mickey out of posters who are infinitely more intelligent than you!
===================================================

Just goes to show what a limited IQ you have.
294

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 16:11:58
353 No I just had the misfortune to review this thread right after you two had posted. But carry on playing your silly games, I didn't think either one of you had any credibility anyway.
295

ricky40,

08/01/2009 16:13:56
355 RTF

No, it goes to show that you are every bit as deluded as Brown. You are simply a laughing stock on here and you don't even realise when individuals are taking the mickey out of you.


296

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 16:16:48
357 Observer



What is a troll?
The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense. There are two main types of trolls:

people who have the psychological need to feel good by making others feel bad.

This is a sort of "psycho troll", whose deception involves deceiving themselves as well as others. Such people may use their real names on the internet, and they may not even realise that they are "trolling" because it is all subconscious.

people who pretend to be someone that they are not - they create personae that you think are real, but they know is fictitious.

There are four types of these trolls:

Playtime Trolls: an individual plays a simple, short game. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.

Tactical Trolls: This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona to gain confidence of others, and provokes strife in a subtle and invidious way.

Strategic Trolls: A very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list.

Domination Trolls: This is where the trollers' strategy extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing lists.

297

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:18:13
356 I must have annoyed somebody earlier,08/01/2009 16:10:15
355 Dufus
If you were in the least funny I'd see the point in your posting. Given that you are not, why don't you take a hike?
================================================

I will do soon.

Thanks for the advice.
298

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 16:18:57
357 Observer


Dealing with Trolls
Here are some ideas to help avoid being deceived by trolls:

Before you invest your trust in someone - either emotional or financial trust - you should verify their bona fide nature from multiple known, reliable and independent sources.


ignore postings that you think are suspicious.


beware of off-list emails that praise and flatter, or seem to evoke sympathy. If you feel yourself beginning to like someone, ask first: how much do I know about them from real life sources?


if you do get involved with anyone via the internet, seek out verifiable data. Real people will provide information about themselves that is open-ended and leads to a myriad of sources which enable you to verify their genuine status.


if you are concerned by email list/group postings, write to the listmaster about it.


listmasters can also make their lists restricted, and conduct a security analysis of each list application before allowing them to subscribe. This is probably easier to do in areas that have professional associations or qualifications.
299

ricky40,

08/01/2009 16:21:16
359 livilion

Help, I'm a "psycho troll" because I use my own name and troll without knowing that I'm trolling. It must run in the family because my father had a fishing troller.
300

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 16:21:29
#357 Observer

Playtime Trolls

Playtime trolls are relatively easy to spot, but they may not be apparent to the naive user. There isn't a single set of characteristics that applies to playtime trolls, but you can look for some or all of the following signs:

a lack of buy-in to the list philosophy or values
generally low level of activity, with sudden spurts of interaction - or perhaps a new persona that has strong opinions on controversial subjects
a mixture of friendly posts with a confrontational style of interaction
the use of provocative language and sweeping generalisations about certain topics or categories of people
a lack of in-depth understanding of the topic
a lack of personal information
a lack of a genuinely unique perspective on the topic
a lack of humour
restarting topics that have already been done
use of language that encourages the dialogue to enter topics that are controversial and likely to upset some team members
the use of an attention-seeking gimmick (e.g.: "I was once exploited by an XYZ")
they follow up their own articles if the group doesn't respond to their posts
inconsistencies in the style and nature of the post and any proclaimed information (e.g.: claiming to be a child but writing with an adult style; claiming to be adult, but writing with a childish grammatical construction).
also note that trolls often seem to use free email services (such as hotmail.com) or have email addresses ending in .edu. However, trolls could be virtually anyone, and the email address is no guide as to whether the persona is a bona fide user or not.
To counteract playtime trolls, the best action is to ignore them. If you are convinced they are trolls, then you can advise the list manager. However, if other group members respond to the suspected troll's posts, then you may have to consider some of the responses outlined for tactical or strategic trolls.
301

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:22:01
357 Observer,,Glasgow 08/01/2009 16:11:58
353 No I just had the misfortune to review this thread right after you two had posted. But carry on playing your silly games, I didn't think either one of you had any credibility anyway.
======================================================

Well thats me cut to the quick.

Anybody got the number for Dignitas?
302

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:23:50
Livilion, we should we do about Astroturfers like Observer?
303

livilion,

livingston 08/01/2009 16:29:55
365 Rufus-T-Firefly
Now why would I want to teach my granny how to suck eggs?
304

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:32:32
LiviLion I was through at your new shopping centre at theh start of the week.

Its Baltic in there.

What happened to the heating?
305

ricky40,

08/01/2009 16:36:14
367 RTF

Quite right, the heating in that creche is a disgrace!
306

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:38:43
I was as cold as Nevsky on his way to the salt mines.
307

TWC,

08/01/2009 16:40:37
Off Topic, I just heard Obama's speech. Very impressed with his command of things(details to follow)
He pretty well Blamed it on the Government, the Financial establishment and the borrowers themselves.
One thing he said I liked was He would spend on Infrastructure and people could go on-line and see that spending and where geographically it was spent.
He wants to be seen to be fair to all.
How refreshing.

Trolls.
I try to ignore the but I get angry
308

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 16:45:19
I'm relatively new on here, so have to take posters as I find them. I've found that Rufus and sm753 are a complete waste of time, mainly because neither one of them seem to know anything about politics, which is a disadvantage when discussing them.

But it is only fair to give people a chance, and I did.

They are in the unpleasant troll catgory now: to be ignored.
309

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:55:06
371 Observer,,Glasgow 08/01/2009 16:45:19
I'm relatively new on here, so have to take posters as I find them. I've found that Rufus and sm753 are a complete waste of time, mainly because neither one of them seem to know anything about politics, which is a disadvantage when discussing them.
====================================================
HA HA HA HA

Observer/Pot/Kettle/Black

Its a bit like being accused of bad driving by Christiano Ronaldo.
310

TWC,

08/01/2009 16:58:16
I give you Churchill.

Rufus used to be able to drive but he has crashed and is burning.
311

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 16:59:38
Bad news for Salmond.

Barack Obama is now Irish.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7794385.stm

They're releasing a song celebrating Barack Obama's Irish connection.

One of Obama's distant ancestors was a wigmaker from the village of Moneygall.

Maybe he could do a cut price deal for John Swinney.

312

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 17:09:16
Oh Dear Salmond is getting in on the act too.

12 US presidents were Scottish.

You live and learn eh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7710199.stm


"Mr Obama's maternal ancestor, Edward FitzRandolph, is said to have emigrated to America in the 17th Century.

According to genealogists, his ancestry can also be traced to William the Lion, who ruled Scotland from 1165 to 1214.

The first minister said 12 US presidents had been of Scottish descent."


313

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:11:56
389 Rufus#

You managed to contact Bron on his spaceship today?

You normally defend his sterling and magnificent inter-gallactic leadership..just wondering where he is today while Sunderland looses 1600 jobs..i'm losing count at how many jobs Brown has saved so far..any idea?
314

TWC,

08/01/2009 17:13:16
386 Rufus-T-Firefly

Ruf a lot of yanks think we Scots & Irish are the same. I lived in US for a good while & they used to record muy voice and say " You sound like an Old Movie"
315

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:13:38
389 Rufus#

Any idea how much extra money he is going to print? Great idea...you think this one will work?

Perhaps another 0.5% cut in VAT will do the job and bring the UK back on par with Argentina..any ideas?
316

TWC,

08/01/2009 17:15:36
BTW did Obama refuse to meet with Brown or What? It looks really bad for him within the party if that is so. Obama won't want to meet with yesterday's man.
317

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 17:18:20
390 Nevsky,,Moscow 08/01/2009 17:11:56
389 Rufus#

You managed to contact Bron on his spaceship today?

You normally defend his sterling and magnificent inter-gallactic leadership..just wondering where he is today while Sunderland looses 1600 jobs..i'm losing count at how many jobs Brown has saved so far..any idea?
====================================================

Hard to quantify, I am sure you will agree.

However he stopped HBOS and RBS going under. So thats over 200,000 for starters. Than add Northern Rock to it.

Then of course, preventing a total banking collapse was vital as it would have brought down many more companies like Standard Life, Aviva etc .

So all in all a conservative estimate is probably between 5 and 10 million.

Pretty impressive by any standards.
318

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:18:47
Obama: So Gordon i feel i have to turn to you for some advice...you are the saviour of the world economy..what can we do in the USA to stimulate the economy.

Brown: eh...i'm a bat..oh sorry i mean print more money..that way we will have more and there wont be so much debt....

Obama: But won't that deflate the economy....

Brown: The world needs a new vision for the paper industry..i asked for this ten years ago but no-one listened tom me....i am a globule...i mean this is global Obama..global..it's huge...i have to go now..got my nails to chew..i'm great..great i am!

319

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 17:20:23
392 Nevsky,,Moscow 08/01/2009 17:13:38
389 Rufus#

Any idea how much extra money he is going to print? Great idea...you think this one will work?
===================================================
A lot of people more highly qualified than you and I think it will.

In fact the Federal Reserve in the USA is right now, considering doing the same thing.

Are you saying it wont work?
320

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:21:58
394 Rufus#

He has 2 choices Rufus...let them fold or but aid them with taxpayers money.

You think this is impressive do you? Haha..really..yes you are right..it was a stroke of genius!
321

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 17:22:43
394 Jesus - what a balloon
322

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 17:24:00
396 Have you heard of the Weimar Republic ?
323

Florence,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 17:24:25
297 RUFUS: Eh??
324

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:28:51
396 Rufus#

Printing more money devalues the currency and just watch the £ slide if that is the option taken....it is the very last measure any economy can take..soon a load of bread will be £75!

I thought Brown had all this under control Rufus? The UK is in real real danger of a total monetary collapse and the government have run out of any ideas as to what to do.

Next the IMF with sycophants like you still stating that Scotland would be worse off alone..you don't get it do you?

It reminds me watching Brown of a dog licking up it's own vomit! It's sickening the way he is trying to state global global global and hoodwing whathe thinks are the ignorant masses..disgusting!
325

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:31:15
401 sm753#

Is that a definition? I think the word is more accurately descriptive of you don't you think?

Someone who is willing to put the interests of another country over his own?

sm753 prefers Britian to his own country Scotland no matter what the consequences...quisling by any stratch of the imaginaton!
326

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 17:34:53
This is the duplicity at the heart of unionism..when it comes down to a choice you cannot serve two masters.

You are either Scottish or British..if the latter then you should completely disown the former and be done with it..this is where the union has succeeded.

Divide and rule..and Scotland is the last country where the mantra is working to great effect!
327

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:01:58
SM @ 401

As others have written that description is more apt if used to describe one Gordon Brown.

So Alex Salmond is to blame for the current devaluation of the pound and not the current state of the UK fiscal position.

Get real he spoke the truth. What, do you think that the curreny dealers only realised that after Alex has said what he did things were bad?

Oh aye bad Alex you made the value of the pound slide.
328

Miss H,

08/01/2009 18:06:28
Yes because if America does it it’s got to be right. Why? Because America is BIG and POWERFUL just like the UK is BIG and POWERFUL. In your dreams anyway. Following America is always the right thing to do whether it is invading Iraq or trying to get out of a recession by printing more money.

If only these stupid, thick nationalists would understand that slavishly following America is what makes Britain GREAT.

Personally I tend to agree with Nevsky that printing more money will only make the pound sink even further. Of course that makes me a traitor just like the First Traitor and, er, just about everybody else who lives in the UK.
329

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:06:49
SM When I first saw you moniker and read your comments you seemed a more measured sole, the fact that you are now using the language as above, means that your comments will be treated with derision and ignored as just being bitter about the SNP Government.

Reasoned intelligent argument and debate, folk like myself and others thrive in that environment not in amphitheatre of the above nonsense.
330

Miss H,

08/01/2009 18:07:05
That was for 396 Rufus the Raver btw
331

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:08:57
Miss H Quantative Easing will give inflation booster rockets in the up cycle, it will devalue the purchasing power of the pound in the present.

It was used in Japan and it didn't work, and they were in a better fiscal position than us at that time.
332

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 18:08:58
So the confederation of BRITISH industry (a clue there to their political sympathies) attack the Scottish Government. What a shock.

Maybe the employees of these companies would actually prefer to pay a fair form of local taxation!
333

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/01/2009 18:10:42
Personally I wouldn't believe a word from the Conglomerate of British Idiots and their constant attacks on the elected Scottish Government do their business case no favours. The Scottish Government has REDUCED business rates for small companies but all the CBI cares about is trying to keep the discredited council tax and pretending that the Scots business community is entirely opposed to independence.

Sack these idiots and get a Scottish organisation to represent Scotland's business.
334

Miss H,

08/01/2009 18:12:19
411 They like to use the term quantitive easing because people don't know what it means. If they said what they meant everyone would panic.
335

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:16:32
415 The same with government bonds, FIAT currency and government finance.
336

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 18:19:27

Quantative easing means that a currency looses it's value.

When i bought an apartment in Moscow last year the woman told me in 1997 the balcony cost RBL4,000,000 because people decided their own value for the currency...prices inflate massively because psychologically people believe money means less..it would be a disaster for the UK.

Also when you defalte the value of currency people seem to think this is good for exports but you have to sell even more just to break even..it's a lose lose situation and really is the end of the line.

I am not sure but i don't think even Iceland took this measure but let their currency slide in the markets instead!

If the UK does not have enough money then it is broke..printing cash will not fix it!

337

Ewan Randall,

08/01/2009 18:26:26
(#332) – (brownlie) – I’m sorry to have inconvenienced anyone with my tardy posting. Embarrassingly I have to admit I am trying to find my feet, and are taking some time practising my technique, what technique I have.
338

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 18:27:10
Just heard on the radio that Scotland is now exporting gas to Europe because of the Russian situation despite the huge levels of demand in the UK!

A great bonus for the London Treasury, more money pouring into London at Scotland's expense!
339

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:28:22
418 Nevsky indeed, the problem as you right stated is we have too much debt.

I just read the BBC news again Darling has come out and said that when told the FT he was considering using QE he is now talking about a "range of measures" and "nobody is talking about printing money".

He and GB just can't cope they don't know how too respond and are dashing from pillar to post and just look even bigger fools.
340

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 08/01/2009 18:31:36
Nevsky he also all but admitted that the recession will be worse that he predicted. Batten the hatches boys it's going to a long, hard and cold 2 years or so.
341

Nevsky,,

Moscow 08/01/2009 18:58:36
421 Tormod#

I saw that and as just about every commentator had predicted Darling was way too optimistic. He predicted that the UK would now be half-way through the downturn..whereas in fact the UK has not reached the bottom yet.

So all his measures have been taken wih regard to his timescale which he now admits was wrong. Great!

Fantastic to know the economy is in such astute hands!
342

TWC,

08/01/2009 19:01:42
This recession is abathtub curve with a long life.

Good night Brethern and Cystern
343

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 19:51:12
429
Sim
WTF is a "spakker", some sort of WW1 fighter?

See west coast dialect, someone says Rufus spoffs all over his keyboard...ah...just got it.
344

brownlie,

08/01/2009 20:08:37
401 sm753

I consider myself too polite to accuse some-one of making extremely silly statements but on this occasion I am very sorely tempted.
345

PI Staker,

London 08/01/2009 20:25:32
What a load of whingeing, "we've been cheated" Nationalist drivvle on this page...The sooner Scotland becomes independent the better, we'll be glad to see the back of you! Go on Salmond, lead your people to the Promised Land!
346

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 20:41:53
Go back to the Evening Standard you're a bore.
347

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 20:43:02
437 was for 435 (although I think you can guess that).
348

Observer,,

Glasgow 08/01/2009 20:52:59
The windfall profit on the gas would certainly make it a lot easier for the Treasury to advance us a bit of our money for the Bridge. There would be a certain natural justice in that, which is why I anticipate they will fight tooth and nail against it.
349

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 21:25:30
435
We are already in it, Stalker.

All the talk of a new bridge over the Forth, perhaps the Labourites think that Gray can solve that too, by parting the waters of the Forth.
350

,

08/01/2009 21:46:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
351

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:14:08
Here you go.

Video of HAMAS using ambulances to launch attacks.

If they do that, they will certainly be launching attacks from UN Buildings, Schools and Mosques.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

Observer is just a HAMAS apologist.
352

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:16:08
431 1, 2, watch..,08/01/2009 19:56:42
#426
Gilson the Editor of this rag is English,
==================================================

How dreadful.

Imagine being English.

Hen Broon the racist strikes again.

Hang your head in shame.
353

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:17:55
The EU is about to grab our gas supplies anyway.
354

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 22:22:09
Rufus, having compassion for innocents caught up in an escalating frenzy of hatred, is not a crime.

Using schools or bombing them; both despicable.
355

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:29:03
Conan, where was Observer's compassion when 8000 rockets hit Israel over the last 5 years?

Where were the marches demanding an end to it?
356

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 08/01/2009 22:43:26
Yawn yawn same old Scotsman Nulabour propoganda. LIT is going to happen for the simple reason it is a fairer system, cue Unionist convulsions, lovely
357

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 22:51:41
448
Rufus
A circular argument.Random missile attacks against a civilian population which may not hit anything, versus precision attacks against the perpetrators which WILL mean civilian casualties.

And pictures of dead babies.

How many young muslims will be strapping on bombs as a result of this?
358

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:53:46
Conan I do not disagree with you.

But I disagree with the one sided hand wringing on behalf of the Palestinians.

OOOPS Hold on

Christine Grahame is embarrassing herself again on STV.
359

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:55:25
Palestinian TV's ASSUD THE BUNNY regularly teaches children the glory of suicide bombing and how the Jews should be wiped out.

Check it out yourself.

It is shocking what the Palestinians teach their children.

Here are some for starters:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TrieBh...eature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6l...eature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s70KlZ...eature=related
360

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 22:56:57
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1037512/Pictured-The-TV-rabbit-preaching-hatred-telling-young-Muslims-kill-eat-Jews.html
361

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 22:59:55
451
Irael has nukes and the USA.

Palestine has hand wringing.

362

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 23:05:37
452
"The link contained a malformed video url".

Shame on you Rufus, for malforming an url.
363

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 23:20:00
Ah, Rufus must be away posting on tomorrows Hootsmon.
364

Gtj,

08/01/2009 23:32:53
SNP tax plans 'scaring off firms' -

Does someone at this rag think that if you repeat something enough times then it adds more value, do they not realise that it just shows desperation.

Sums this site up.
365

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 23:35:57
457
Evening Col.

Not been to Spooks blog yet?

It's like the good old Hootsmon blog with swearing and beer.
366

Rufus-T-Firefly,

08/01/2009 23:38:30
Conan

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s70KlZwb9RE&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4&feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s70KlZwb9RE&feature=related
367

Gtj,

08/01/2009 23:39:02
SNP tax plans 'scaring off firms' -

Does someone at this rag think that if you repeat something enough times that it adds more value, do they not realise that it just shows desperation.

Sums this site up.
368

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 23:41:25
There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 today, detailing and exploring the disproportionate amount of mental health problems manifest in the English-speaking world. Reading this thread seems to reinforce that argument.

369

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 23:42:24
460
Thankyou Rufus.
370

Conan the Librarian™,

08/01/2009 23:45:53
462

Tinny, I thought it was quite sane tonight; do I have to scroll up to get the sphincters and pee stained pyjamas?
371

The Tin Man,

08/01/2009 23:52:58
#464 Conan

Several people, above, appear to be suffering from 'multiple personality disorder'. That, and the usual twittering opinionations.

I take solace in the possibilities of the wonderful knitting pattern in this months 'Bella' magazine. This could be adapted, and expanded upon, to create a low-carbon-footprint, corrosion-free bridge over the Forth.
372

Ian from Gala,

09/01/2009 00:07:46
There is no cogent, fair or sensible argument against dumping the unfair council tax, which these days bears no relation to income.

A local income tax is fair.

The overall tax burden that the UK and Scotish Governments choose to set is another matter!

Iain McMillan's opposition to a fair system of taxation to raise money for local authorities is stupid. Presumably he would also argue that businesses should not be paying tax based on their profits?
373

Conan the Librarian™,

09/01/2009 00:20:30
465

Tinny

That's the Wonder of Woollies.

Erm...
374

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/01/2009 01:00:52
421 TORMOD: I have to agree with you. The Saviour of the world and his sidekick are running around like headless chickens - and chickens that are coming home to roost. Talk about hapless. It would be comical if it weren't so serious.

 

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