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Glenrothes: Labour stages last push but SNP claim to have 'won the ground war'

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Published Date: 06 November 2008
LABOUR campaigners vowed last night to keep canvassing on the doorsteps of Glenrothes "until people stop answering the doors", in a last-ditch attempt to keep the seat from the SNP.
Party chiefs insisted they were in an "upbeat mood" as they waited for the polls to open today in the crucial by-election.

One senior source said: "We will be out knocking on doors until people stop answering."

The source added that Lindsay Roy, the party's candidate, would give the contest one final push, because Labour had "narrowed the gap so much that we are within striking distance".

However, that appeared to be a tacit admission that the Nationalists were ahead going into polling day – and that was reflected in Alex Salmond's bullish decision to put his own money on an SNP win.

The First Minister has seized on Barack Obama's campaign slogan, "Yes we can", and he insisted yesterday: "Yes, we can win and, yes, we will win the Glenrothes by-election."

Asked whether he had "put his money where his mouth was", Mr Salmond replied: "You know I never comment on my gambling propositions, but if you publish that I put money on the SNP to win, I won't deny it."

SNP managers believe they have "won the ground war" by getting more activists than Labour out in the constituency, although some concede privately that Labour may have won the "airwaves war" and have had a better campaign in terms of publicity and message.

However, the Nationalists believe that the personal contact of so many SNP activists with so many of the electorate will tell when the votes are counted tonight, with the result expected early tomorrow morning.

Victory would give the SNP its second Westminster by-election victory of the year, following its success in Glasgow East in the summer, and its second successive defeat of Labour. A victory in Glenrothes would be a massive boost for the Nationalists, who have set themselves a target of having 20 MPs after the next general election.

It would also fuel the momentum Mr Salmond and his administration have maintained since they won the Holyrood elections in May last year.

Defeat for Labour would be devastating for the party, even more so than in Glasgow East.

The Glasgow by-election came when Prime Minister Gordon Brown's personal popularity was sinking to damagingly low levels all over the country and Labour was torn apart by factional fighting and constant rumours of leadership challenges.

But the Glenrothes contest has been fought under much more favourable conditions for Labour. The Prime Minister has been to the constituency twice, boosted by his performance as an international statesman during the banking crisis.

His wife, Sarah Brown, has been in the constituency many times, and the voters of Fife are at least expected to be much more sympathetic to Mr Brown, a fellow Fifer, than the people of Glasgow East were. Yet if, after all these advantages, Labour loses today's vote, it will send out warning signals to every part of the Labour Party that it is in serious trouble ahead of the next general election.

Maurice Golden, the Conservative candidate in Glenrothes, said the best way to send Mr Brown "a message" was to vote Tory, although he admitted it would be an "uphill battle" for him to win the seat, which Labour is defending with a 10,664 majority over the SNP.

Harry Wills, the Liberal Democrat candidate, was joined by Tavish Scott, the Scottish party leader, and Willie Rennie, the Dunfermline and West Fife MP, as he campaigned yesterday, concentrating on the economy and the party's plans for a 2p cut in income tax.

By-election shock – Prezza has been to charm school

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1

Castaway™ ,

06/11/2008 00:05:55
Glenrothes by-election available across the world.
stv will broadcast full coverage from 11.39pm GMT on Thursday, and you can watch it all here - live and available across the world at stv.tv/glenrothes
http://tinyurl.com/5hwvnn
2

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:06:36
Um...Labour have a huge majority, yet they have "narrowed the gap?"

Heh, of course they have;-)
3

,

06/11/2008 00:07:48
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4

madrab,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 00:08:18
Vote Labour, vote jobs for England
5

clawmaster,

glasgow 06/11/2008 00:08:37
This article and the photo caption are factually incorrect. SNP first used the slogan in the 1997 General Election. Search amazon online site and the 1997 'Yes We Can' manifesto will be delivered in the results.

Obama pinched the snp slogan. The article should be corrected.
6

madrab,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 00:09:38
Vote Labour, lose your home
7

madrab,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 00:10:16
Vote Labour, watch your kids go hungry
8

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:10:58
5 Clawmaster, you are factually incorrect.

Bob the Builder had it first.

Bob the builder
Can we fix it?
Bob the builder
Yes we can!
9

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:11:16
"SNP managers believe they have "won the ground war" by getting more activists than Labour out in the constituency, although some concede privately that Labour may have won the "airwaves war" and have had a better campaign in terms of publicity and message."

Doh.

The entire treekilling media is against the SNP; online and on the doorstep it's a different story.
10

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:11:48
Vote SNP, get Mary Queen of Scots bones back!
11

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:12:08
Will the New Labour Sleaze 'activists' have their gun wielding thugs with them??

Will they also remind voters of their plans to dump 500,000 of toxic sludge from London to 50 miles from Glenrothes??

Vote SNP X
12

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:12:26
Vote SNP, get Scotlands own entry in the Eurovision Song Contest.
13

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:15:37
8
Oh Rufus...

Are you prepared to lie back and think of England tomorrow night?
14

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:17:58
If the SNP are re-using their old slogans, what about "Free by 93"?

I still can't see it even although 2193 is still a bit away.
15

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:19:36
The voters should also be reminded of some of New Labour Sleaze's past glories.

Illegal war in Iraq
Shocking treatment of troops
Pension thefts.
Tax give aways to the super rich while 10p tax rates cut.
Comrade Broon was architect of the financial crisis.
Sleaze and corruption on an unprecedented scale.
Post Office closures
PPP/PFI saddling country with massive debts.
Trident and Son of Trident.

VOTE SNP X
16

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:20:29
Did you hear the story about the English bus driver who did not accept a Scots tenner from a child, and kicked him off the bus?

Apparently he is being re-educated...
17

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:21:43
Hey Secret Agent Jimmy Le Pie, you post that stuff every day.

Do you not have any new material?
18

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:22:55
Has anyone seen Red Wendy, Maggie Curran and Jackie out on the streets???

Has Iain Grey left the country???

And His Lardship, Lard Foolkes is very noticable by his welcome silence -

VOTE SNP X
19

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:22:58
16 Conan the Librarian™,06/11/2008 00:20:29

Anybody getting on a bus with a tenner to pay for their fares is asking for trouble.

Try it yourself.
20

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:24:16
Celtic took a thrashing tonight.

What an embarrassment.
21

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:24:44
14
Rufus, to see it, merely take off these.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/liedtke/DSCF0286.jpg
22

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 06/11/2008 00:28:20
I hope the voters in Glenrothes wipe the smug grin of anti-Scottish Gordon Browns face and his snought in the trough Nulabour party. VOTE SNP
23

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:28:28
19
Was for a weekly fare...do you have a cheap Unionist bus service which we don't know about?

Or just use LRT?
24

One-man-bucket's older twin,

06/11/2008 00:29:19
#10 - what for, Mr Firefly? This is no time to be making soup!
25

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:29:29
I use LRT.

No chance of change there.
26

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:30:05
Where is the link to the story Conan?
27

Dave Gordon.,

www.oddpolitics.com 06/11/2008 00:30:13
I posted an item about slogans and semi-plagiarism on oddpolitics.com yesterday. I'm kind of disappointed to see this article, as it echoes what I predicted.

"Labour had "narrowed the gap so much that we are within striking distance"." made me laugh, though. It's totally backwards - the SP narrowed the gap, the money says they will stroll through it.

http://www.oddpolitics.com
28

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:32:05
Do the voters of Glenrothes know about New Labour Sleaze's plans to replace Trident with a newer, more deadly weapons system that will provide jobs in the USA but cost us billions???

I'll tell them later on today!

VOTE SNP X
29

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:32:23
Salmond is out canvassing already.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2023/2109208747_21d2a86299.jpg?v=0
30

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:33:46
27 Dave Gordon

Labour were favourites for Glasgow East according to all the bookies.

You cant rely on their odds.
31

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:34:03
26
http://tinyurl.com/6hglrc

32

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:35:13
31
Or sods.

Labour that is.
33

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:39:07
I would not accept a Clydesdale Bank Tenner either.
34

,

06/11/2008 00:40:33
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Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 00:42:35
Hey Quisling Gogs, I see you still cant be a blood donor.
36

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:43:56
Do the voters of Glenrothes realise that while Comrade Broon allows foreign owned power companies to make billions, the only help he is offering to hard pressed pensioners and families, who are struggling to stay warm this winter, is loft insulation, maybe next summer??

And this in an energy rich country???

VOTE SNP, The ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland.
37

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:50:51
34
Well that is a wee bit stupid...ahh.

35
One more time... I. Do. Not. Work. For. The. Scotsman.

38

alba nach,

Tarbert 06/11/2008 00:53:09
Sorry Rufus. Bob the Builder is from 1999. The slogan "Yes We Can" was used by the SNP in 1997.

Looks like the BBC might owe some royalty payments to the SNP!
39

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 00:53:57
Jimmy.

It's fun.

Have you never been up all night? Snarf.
40

,

06/11/2008 00:54:15
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41

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:55:43
I hope the voters of Glenrothes remember Comrade Broon became PM without the say so of the electorate.

I hope the voters of Glenrothes also remember Comrade Broon appointed Lord Mandelson of Sleaze as his deputy PM and he's not even an MP!!

New Labour Sleaze and Corruption at their sleazy best!

Vote SNP X
42

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 00:57:24
Conan the Librarian™,

Nicht shift I'm afraid!
43

,

06/11/2008 01:05:48
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,

06/11/2008 01:06:11
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45

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 01:10:30




"The First Minister has seized on Barack Obama's campaign slogan, "Yes we can"

"Mummy!"?

What my Darling, Baby Boy?

"That Man has a 'Magic Lollipop!"

Is that correct my Darling, Baby Boy?

"Yes Mummy!"

And how do you know that, my Darling, Baby Boy?

"Because everytime he licks it, he changes colour!"

Is that right my, Darling Baby Boy?

"Yes Mummy!"

I suppose you want one then, My Darling, Baby Boy?

"Yes Mummy, And I will give you a, 'Big-Kiss!"

Very Well,....'You Win'!



46

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 01:16:36



#52,

NO I WONT!

TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE!


47

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 01:17:14
51
Charles, are you suggesting Alex has a Magic Lollipop?
48

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 01:19:32


Conan ~54,

NO!

Seeing GREEN, more the likes!


49

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 01:20:49
Traquir, Alba

Excellent posts
50

Conan the Librarian™,

06/11/2008 01:21:24
Charles, Agent Smith is a sad person. So sad that the Scotsman should give his ID to the social services.
51

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 01:26:49


Conan ~57,

Like you, I have been on the Scotsman threads for years!

Unlike HBOS, I wont be moved from my roots, for some 'numpties,, 'say-so'.

52

Edward,

06/11/2008 01:27:54
'Mr Brown, a fellow Fifer' Ha Ha Ha
with his accent its pushing it a bit!
53

,

06/11/2008 01:30:15
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54

,

06/11/2008 01:35:35
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 01:35:41



It is all very tacky, suddenly using others slogans, to gain,..

..'Dreams of Fame'. :(


56

Edward,

06/11/2008 01:37:29
Labour MP on last nights Newsnight Scotland claims that Labour are coming from behind, basing on that the SNP had won the equivelant seat last year for Holyrood
All well an good, except that the boundaries are slightly different and the voting system is completely different. So already Labour grasping at crumbs of comfort insisting that there not actually fighting with a majority of 10,000 + from the last general election.The same Labour MP also denied that they were fighting on local issues, but were highlighting what the SNP council were doing - So a westminster election comes dwn to talking about subjects that, once in Westminster, if elected Rectum Roy, wouldnt really be carrying forward as its not relevant in Westminster - smart! Rectal Roy will fight for better Roads and Buses, except that would come up in Westminster either!
Would Rector Roy support increases for Pensioners? - Silence from Labour on that
57

qohldr,

06/11/2008 02:31:17
I predict.
The turnout to be about 13% down on the 05 GE.
The Conservative to gain a few thousand votes, the LD to remain reasonabily static.
Labour to loss and the SNP to gain resulting in the SNP winning the seat by a few hundred votes as they did in Glasgow east.
Taking these results into votes for the unionist against the nationalist the unionist will have more votes than the nationalists as they did in Glasgow east also as they do in all seats for Westminster held by the SNP except Banff and Buchan which is the only seat held by the SNP where the nationalist have an overall majority.
Still I expect to see (if my prediction comes true) to see comments of how the results mean the union is finished even though the union candidates will receive more votes that the nationalist.
58

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 02:35:24
61 Jwil
Was this phrase not pinched from Bob the Builder.
59

Castaway™ ,

06/11/2008 02:37:02
#49/50 Traquir , Alba, very good posts.
60

yockel,

06/11/2008 03:10:03
#64 But will it be a mid term defeat for Labour or a mid term win for the SNP?
61

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 03:23:47
Has that slimey article Mike Dailly been out on the streets of Glenrothes campaigning???

No thought not.

Vote SNP, the ONLY party for ALL the people of Scotland.
62

,

06/11/2008 03:35:48
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,

06/11/2008 03:36:13
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64

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 04:03:02
Alex Salmond in yet another cheap, crude, cringeworthy publicity stunt. Can't say I ever tire of laughing at this man.
65

Footbal fan,

Dubai 06/11/2008 04:45:41
Traquir, Alba

You really do demonstrate all that is bad about the wee, nasty,parochial and insular Scotland with that industrial-sized chip on your shoulder very well!

What an advert for Scotland you are - more anti-England than you are pro-Scotland. In fact, in many ways, both you and Alex Salmond are very similar - you may even be the same person. I would trust either of you in Government about half as much as I could kick you!

I am neither a "Scottish Unionist" (do you mean Rangers FC fans??)nor a "Scottish independant". I am simply a Scot and love the fact that, as a race, we are open, honest, hard-working, optimistic, forward-thinking - all the things that clearly you are not!!

You make a point about the HQ's of many British firms being based in England or more specifically, the south east of England. So what?? They are probably there because the want to be, because it is at the heart of their client base and because the local authority works hard to encourage them to be there - let's face it, Glenrothes really does ot have all that many charms!!

Grow up or shut up and let the people of Glenrothes decide for themselves!

66

donald,

glasgow 06/11/2008 05:55:56
It is Liebour's job to lower aspirations in Scotland with a "No We Can't" mentality. Hope they get cuffed today.
67

Castaway™ ,

06/11/2008 06:21:53
#72 Footbal fan: Traquir, is putting across his point of view usually by quoting facts from sources.I happen to agree with what he writes,wheareas you don't.
His #69 comment I find interesting and it shows he has done a lot to research to produce that comment.
It is upto others if they wish to counter his comments preferably from sourced facts or comments on what he wrote without resorting to personal attacks.

I am not anti-English and having served in the British Army I made some really good friends south of the border some I would prefer to those living north of the border.
I also think most Scots are not anti-English but some are anti-Westminster Government(s) and how the WG view(ed) and treat(ed) Scotland and its people.
They feel that an independent Scotland would be better than being ruled by a UK Government.
I still remember that 1979 referendum and the undemocratic stupid/silly 40% rule and Westminster considers itself an institution of democracy ?
Then came the McCrone report .Written in by a leading government economist in 1974, it sets out how oil would have given Scotland one of the strongest currencies in Europe. Why keep that report hidden from the Scottish people ?
Margaret Thatcher said "we English who are marvellous people are really very generous to Scotland" 10 Feb 1990
Sir Bernard Ingham, Margaret Thatcher's Chief Press Secretary June 05, 2008
"they smelt money"
"as greedy as sin as they were"
"the only thing that fueled nationalism was
the smell of oil, money and oil"
"it really is the most monstrous piety"
tinyurl.com/6ymamn
Bernard was referring to the SNP and supporters.

Grow up or shut up and let the people of Glenrothes decide for themselves.Some comments on this and other forums try and influence the other contributors opinions on a variety of subjects.This forum happens to be about Glenrothes by-election.
68

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06/11/2008 06:25:59
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06/11/2008 06:30:21
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06/11/2008 06:34:34
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06/11/2008 06:38:49
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Angleland Isover,

06/11/2008 06:44:21
Was the liebore "source" talking about their nuclear weapons when it spoke about being within striking distance of the S.N.P.
73

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 06:45:08
71 Viva#

I am sure he spends a lot of time worrying about what you think!
74

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 06:56:33
#70 Traquir... yet again...

"Would England every allow this commonly accepted
level of decent democracy, nope they wield
an embarrassing degree of power over
the other constituents of the UK and will NEVER give
it up willingly."

What a load of old tripe. Scottish parliament? Welsh assembly? Stormont?

And what on Earth is this 'England' of which you speak? 'England' is a very diverse place, is it not? But you always like to be snide and tell us all that 'England' is one completely homogenous entity. That's nasty, and disrespectful to the 'English'.

Likewise, you assume, time and time again, that 'Scotland' is one homogenous entity. Either you don't get around much, or you are deliberately insulting Scotland.

Saor Alba
75

Max FM,

06/11/2008 07:04:39
People of Glenrothes - today is your chance to change the path of our nation. Forget the negative politics of Labour and choose to move the nation forward.
76

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 06/11/2008 07:14:17
Naughty, naughty SNP!!!

Well done Hootsmon, for bringing up this vitally impotent point.

Is theft, it is - Obama should bring in the FBI.

Besides, Bob the Builder does it better.........;-)
77

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06/11/2008 07:26:37
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 07:41:31
#84 sm

Explain 'you' and 'us'?

You are saying that people in Cumbria have got it in for 'the Scots', I am saying that they don't. The reason I am saying that they don't is because it is patently untrue.

Traquir is a propogandist, who never posts any information that does not fit with his big plan.
79

Marian,

06/11/2008 07:48:24
After 11 years in power at Westminster Gordon Brown and his New Labour acolytes spin and spin but will not answer the following questions:-

Why are New Labour alienating English Voters by telling them that Scotland is an economic basket case dependent on alms from England?

If Scotland is the economic basket case that New Labour claim it is then why did New Labour allow it to remain so during their years in power?

Why is it that Scotland's economic performance in terms of its GDP (Gross Domestic Product ) after 50 years of Labour rule is utterly miserable compared to other small northern countries:
GDP per capita in US dollars:-
Scotland $23,666.
UK $26,150
Norway - £36,600)
Denmark - $30,940
Ireland - $36,360
(figures from http://globalis.gvu.unu.edu and http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2003/03/17471/22721)

Why is it that the countries with the highest quality of life (see The Economist rankings), are: Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Italy, Denmark, Spain, Singapore, Finland, United States, Canada, New Zealand, Netherlands………. and the UK is way back at 29th?

Why is it that the former New Labour led Scots Executive burned its way through an annual budget that almost doubled since devolution to £30 billion and yet had so little to show for it?

Why is it that ever larger sums of public money are needed by New Labour just to meet existing commitments?

Why are 1.1 million people in Scotland (22 per cent) living in low-income households?

Why are 25% of directly employed Scottish state employees on low wages?

Why does Scotland have a legacy from New Labour of 35,000 of its 16 to 19 year olds classed as NEET's costing Scotland's taxpayers £1.7 billion per annum (NEET's = Not in Education, Employment or Training)?

Why are roughly half of the working population of Scotland employed by the state?

Why are disproportionately large numbers of the urban population on state benefits of one kind
80

Marian,

06/11/2008 07:49:01
continued....

Why are disproportionately large numbers of the urban population on state benefits of one kind or another?

Why does Scotland with 9% of the UK population, provide 12% of the UK armed forces personnel?

Why is the disposable income in London more than double of that in Scotland?

Why is it that in every Lifestyle and Wellbeing indicator survey Denmark, Eire, Finland, and Norway out-perform Scotland?

Why is it that we have a legacy from New Labour whereby it is virtually impossible for citizens to obtain treatment from an NHS dentist in Scotland?

Why is it that we have a legacy from New Labour whereby Scotland's under five year olds have the worst dental decay in the UK?

Why did Gordon Brown in his 2007 Budget remove the 10% rate of income Tax thus hitting Scots disproportionately harder because Scotland has more low wage earners than anywhere else in the UK?

Why is it that in the six years to 2006 the enterprise budget appeared to have grown by just 1 per cent against an increase of 38 per cent for the UK as a whole?

Why was it that New Labour stated that "economic growth" is a priority, yet allocate so little for it in their Executive budget?

Why is it that we have a legacy from New Labour whereby Scotland has the highest business rates in the UK?

Why are Countries which are very similar to Scotland and facing the same world economic problems as Scotland i.e. Denmark, Eire, Finland, and Norway, not economic basket cases as well?

What economic advantages have the successful economies of Denmark, Eire, Finland, and Norway over Scotland's economy?

Why has New Labour failed to redress their aforementioned economic failure in Scotland?

What changes will New Labour make if their candidate is elected, during the lifetime of the Westminster Parliament, to reverse the overall economic decline of Scotland and its private sector industries?

Why does New Labour want to keep the Trident nuclear attack submarines based
81

Marian,

06/11/2008 07:49:23
continued......

Why does New Labour want to keep the Trident nuclear attack submarines based in the Clyde when the overwhelming majority of Scots want them removed from Scotland?

Why Is it part of the "Union Dividend" to have hundreds of Nuclear weapons kept 80 miles from Edinburgh and 36 miles from Glasgow?

Why does New Labour want to build more nuclear fueled generation capacity in Scotland, when Scotland already has electricity generation over-capacity and bountiful reserves of sources of alternative energy?

Why does New Labour want to build more nuclear fueled electricity generation capacity in Scotland, when Countries which are very similar to Scotland, i.e. Denmark, Eire, Finland, and Norway, who are facing the same energy demands, do not deem it necessary or desirable to invest in nuclear power?
82

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 07:49:29
Hey Spanners/priest/sm7531/2/parcel.

Why do you post under multiple names?

Why did you copy sm753's id? Does it make you feel good impersonating him?

You are clearly a weirdo.

BEGONE YOU FAKE.
83

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 07:52:08
Hey Marion/Traqueer, why use 1 word when 20 can be used?
84

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06/11/2008 08:04:49
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 08:04:57
#87 Marian

Why did the Labour government introduce the minimum wage?

Why did the Labour government improve the NHS?

Why did the Labour government improve education?

Why has unemployment plummeted?

Why do you not up-sticks and go and live in Ireland?
86

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06/11/2008 08:06:18
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 08:08:54
#92 Troll

"You are saying that people in Cumbria have got it in for 'the Scots',"

Show me where I posted anything ressembling that statement?"

Now you are agreeing with my point. So, why did you insult me? Feeling 'bi-polar', today? That's a u-turn that Kenny Dalgleish would have been proud of.
88

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06/11/2008 08:10:06
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06/11/2008 08:10:39
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06/11/2008 08:12:29
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06/11/2008 08:15:59
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Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 08:18:55
99

If all people are the same, why don't the SNP offer free universal health care to all of the elderly? Not just the ones that frittered all their money away or couldn't be bothered working hard?

Also what about heriditary rule in the clans, with their clan chiefs? If Scotland didn't have hierarchy through the ages? You're not the sharpest tool in the box are you?
93

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 08:23:21
101 Viva#

Unfortunately you are wrong, there was NO herarchy in the Clan system so it's you who are not the sharpest tool today i am afraid.

English society developed differently, an overlord who would nail your ears to a tree if you stole a rabbit. All the poor English could ever aspire to was their own pig.

This is why today social standing is so important to the English and why Scots generally have little respect for the titled.

94

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 08:23:34
America have got rid of their awful president, and its now time we got rid of our awful prime minister. I hope the people of Glenrothes take the first step and vote Labour out.
95

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 08:25:47
#99 sm etc.

"In Scotland we dont believe in grouping people into "classes" "

Conceited? You?

You propogate pidgeon-holing people into the 'unionist class' and the 'nationalist class'. Then you contradict yourself, you apoint yourself as spokesman for the people of Scotland, and them insinuate that you are not arrogant.

Goodbye.
96

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 08:28:35
102 Nevsky

How do you explain the title Clan "Chieftan" if there was no hierarchy? You really an idiot, sir.
97

roughrider,

Glasgow 06/11/2008 08:30:06
See if you can spot rufus.

http://tinyurl.com/6b3qlx
98

BIG EYE,

Paisley 06/11/2008 08:31:59
Splat!!

What was that Daddy?

That was the imaginary Brown bounce son, it died in Glenrothes!
99

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 08:33:15
105 Viva#

The 'clan' chieftain was often appointed by the clan viva you un-educated eejit.

Clansmen recieved protection in return if they lived on the chief's lands all they had to do was pay a small rent and be prepared to be called to arms, that was it! They were completely free.

They were no owned as the poor English were. Your society was much more like serfdom in Russia than the Highland system.

oink oink
100

Michael Stuart,

Stellenbosch 06/11/2008 08:35:36
What I find interesting about the presence of the SNP in Scottish politics is how in its "liberation movement" mode it so often strikes the right note, it makes the deeper appeal to Scottish sentiment. Ideologically it may be a very mixed bag or "broad church" (such as the African National Congress in South Africa) but any apparent contradictions in policies or personalities seem to be carried forward in a dynamic movement which disregards differences as long as the dynamism holds. This movement will no doubt end in independence for Scotland but the circumstances under which this occurs, may not be altogether an unmixed blessing for the country.
101

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 08:41:08
109 Nevsky

Oh yes of course, Scottish paradise and perfection of social democracy prior to 1707. Do actually believe your own romantic, ill-informed twoddle? Because no-one else does.
102

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 08:46:46
111 Viva#

No paradise but certainly a better, more equitable and egalitarian society than that of most of England.

Incidentally i am from the Highlands and a Gaelic speaker so being brought up in the culture i think i probably have more knowledge of the subject that you do (as proven by your posts).

I suggest you stick to what you are best at, ill-informed and offensive posts!
103

Tynietiger,

06/11/2008 08:50:14
From Piltonsucks dotcom. On the eve of poll in the Forth Ward by-election, it has come to our attention of a possible serious breach of election rules.
Strong rumour has it and this rumour is reliable, that Labour and their candidate Cammy Day have spent over £2000 on stamps with a view to sending election letters out to voters.
If this is true then the electoral commission must be notified immediately. Since the start of this campaign the Labour party has been treading water. Their timing and choice of candidate was controversial to say the least and this left a number of members refusing to have anything to do with the Labour campaign. This coupled with dodgy e-mails which criticized former councillor William Fitzpatrick, something which Mr. Day denied, this latest potential scandal may well have put paid to Labour having any chance of holding on to a seat in the Forth Ward.
It is crucially important that the election rules regarding finance are rigorously adhered to and if Labour have breached these rules then they must withdraw from this election.
104

,

06/11/2008 08:50:41
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105

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 06/11/2008 08:52:31
#93 "Why did the Labour government introduce the minimum wage?"

As a token sop to their old values, and as a front to let them get on with increasing the gap between rich and poor. The minimum wage is a sick joke. How many people/families can get by on £9800 a year?

"Why has unemployment plummeted?"

Wow, someone hasn't been watching the news.

http://tinyurl.com/4sg6r8

"Take, for example, the Prime Minister’s mantra-like boast that he has ‘created three million new jobs’. The Statistics Commission discloses that 68 per cent of this increase can be attributed to immigrants. These new jobs were filled: but not by Britons.

Even this figure includes pensioners returning to work. Narrow the field to working-age people, and immigrants account for 82 per cent of the job increases. According to Office for National Statistics information obtained by The Spectator there were only 300,000 more UK-born working-aged people in employment in June 2007 than there were in June 1997: a tenth of Mr Brown’s oft-repeated figure.

Shockingly little progress has been made with the great mass of home-grown British unemployed. Official figures provided to The Spectator show that there were 5.1 million people on out-of-work benefits when Labour took office. As of last February, that figure had fallen by just 867,000 - not much to show for what Mr Brown likes to describe as the longest period of uninterrupted economic growth in a century. In a decade, he made less progress than the Thatcher government did between 1987 and 1990, when the comparable jobless count fell by 895,000."

Since this feature was published, unemployment has risen by almost 200,000 and is projected to rise by another half-million by the spring, returning it to the levels Labour inherited from the Tories. As we enter what's going to be a bad recession, it will continue to rise, and by the middle of next year it's very likely to be higher than it was under John Major. Well done, Labour.
106

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 06/11/2008 08:52:57
In response to comment #64,dont believe that all of the votes cast for unionist parties are unionist votes.People vote on all kinds of issues and the only way that we can identify unionists and pro-independance votes is in a referendum.

Meantime,I wish Peter Grant every success today.I hope that my fellow Fifers elect him since we need more SNP.MP's at Westminster to speak out on behalf of Scottish voters.I have been in politics too long to take anything for granted but I sense from the straws in the wind that Peter has a very good chance.
107

John S,

06/11/2008 09:16:59
The "YES WE CAN" slogan was used by the SNP in 1997 here is the proof.For a photo of Alex Salmond (1997) along with "YES WE CAN" slogan visit:-
http://tinyurl.com/5shabs
108

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 09:23:37
119 Danies#

I have never seen an asian mini-cab driver in London, used to be a totally jewish profession, guess times are changing.
109

,

06/11/2008 09:25:53
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110

brownlie,

06/11/2008 09:26:00
104 Tin Man

Do you have any comment on the use of the term "pikey" by Viva Victoria?

Does it offend you as much as nationalist posters do?
111

Lianachan,

Highlands 06/11/2008 09:27:00
#112 As another native, born and bred Highlander, I'd just like to chip in with some support for you here. Clan chiefs were indeed often appointed by the clan, and had to prove their worth to them. They didn't, though, own the land - land ownership was an alien concept. This is one of the main tragedies about the clearances.
112

Lianachan,

HIghlander 06/11/2008 09:29:12
#120 Scots "winger"? What, like Pat Nevin?
113

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 09:30:17
124 sm

You're avoiding the issue. The SNP are forcing to hard-working decent people to pay twice for their treatments. Whereas, lazy wasters who frittered their money away pay nothing and get access to the free treatment that should rightfully be shared.

Tax-payers should be allowed infrastructure they pay for free as well. Equal access.

It is you Labour/SNP scumbags who have the dogma. You hate hard-working decent people who want equal access to the service they pay for.
114

Alan B,

06/11/2008 09:31:32
#danielrober

"YES WE CAN. - rip other peoples logos and policies because we can't think of anything else to say."

This was a snp slogan before what are you on about.


"If you get into a minicab in London, don't be surprised it you are rewarded with a torrent of abuse. Scots go home, winger, Scots oil but English technology, etc, etc."

Been in alot of london mini cabs over the yrs and never had any abuse what so ever no matter the race of the driver.

"My partner gets an even harder time for not having kids with either an Englishman or a 'proper asian'."
You hang around with the wrong people then.
115

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 09:31:45
#125 brownlie

I'm sorry - you lost me. Pikey? I tend to skip over Viva's posts as they are devoid of humour, and not much fun.

#116 Rev

I would certainly agree with you on the indigenous long-term unemployed. I would imaging that the benefit system will be somewhat Clintonised, over time.

Your comments on the minimum wage are a bit retentive, though. You want it repealed so that it is more attractive to go on the dole, again?
116

brownlie,

06/11/2008 09:32:35
123 Nevsky

It all depends which area of London you call for a mini-cab. In Southall for instance your driver will almost inevitably be of Asian origin.

Perhaps you mean black cabs?
117

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 09:33:29
#131 Alan B

I would have to agree with you, there. I think he is making it up.
118

brownlie,

06/11/2008 09:35:15
132 The Tin Man

Although most of her(?) comments fall on stony ground she claims to represent an anti-SNP point of view which may coincide with your own.

I understand that "pikey" is a derogatory term in common usage in England.
119

The Strategist,

06/11/2008 09:35:50
Today the Bank of England will reduce interest rates in order to try to compensate for Gordon Brown's economic incompetence.

Based on recent evidence it is unlikely that the banks and building societies will pass this cut on to their customers but they will cut savings rates.

120

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 09:36:26
133 Brownlie#

Yip i mean black-cabs.
121

Alan B,

06/11/2008 09:41:58
#danielrober

What have you been smoking?
122

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 09:42:32
#135 Brownlie

Sorry, not up-to-date on that modern-talk. I thought Pikey was a character in Dad's Army?

The Fuzzy-Wuzzies, aparently, don't like it up 'em, and frankly, who can question their sentiments?
123

Calum10,

06/11/2008 09:43:29
re: "LABOUR campaigners vowed last night to keep canvassing on the doorsteps of Glenrothes "until people stop answering the doors", in a last-ditch attempt to keep the seat from the SNP."

The fact is that Labour have NO activists on the ground. There has been no canvassing by Labour in Glenrothes. The Labour party have been reduced to running a media campaign.
124

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 09:48:43
Now back to business...

Medeival Scottish society was better than medeival English society, and cab-drivers in London sometimes have right-wing opinions, mini-cab drivers are Asian fascists, and Salmond is a big fat neep.

Don't panic Captain Manwearing!
125

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 09:49:06
#117

"dont believe that all of the votes cast for unionist parties are unionist votes.People vote on all kinds of issues and the only way that we can identify unionists and pro-independance votes is in a referendum"

And likewise not all votes cast for the SNP are independence votes. Many will be 'protest' votes against labour.
126

brownlie,

06/11/2008 09:49:23
139 The spook in Sunshine

Morning, Spook, if you cannot spell my name properly I will no longer share your Waitrose bag and I will withdraw the hard-earned cash that pays for your education.

Do you like the comment in the article which states "Labour ... have had a better campaign in terms of publicity and message"?

Have a look at the Glenrothes headings in the Scotsman over the past week or so and you can see why they've had better publicity.

Knighthood for Hamish???
127

brownlie,

06/11/2008 09:50:39
142 Tin Man

How true!!
128

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 09:54:25
#5

"This article and the photo caption are factually incorrect. SNP first used the slogan in the 1997 General Election."

Yes I'm sure they did use it in 1997 but its fairly obvious why they have suddenly revived it now...
129

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:03:53
150 Yeah 1

The head-line is obviously incorrect but it gives the few people who buy this paper a subliminal message.
130

,

06/11/2008 10:05:48
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131

Scimitar1,

06/11/2008 10:07:05
None of these party's will serve Scotland or it's people well. Salmond, wrapping himself round the Saltire and simultaneously embracing extremist elements , and Brown who has inflicted an economic catastrophe through deliberate systematic decimation of our industrial base, and a recklessly unregulated lending policy. That both have secretly sanctioned sharia courts in this country should serve to remind that they are NOT working in the long term interests of it's people are are merely satisfying their own short term political interests.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/Sharia-courts-set-to-bring.4573444.jp
132

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 10:08:26
#152

"Dose it really upset you , i mean has this ruined your day, i mean have you a grievance, i mean is it such a big deal, i mean who cares."

Well obviously the SNP posters earlier on complaining about the SNP having the slogan first seemed to care about it...
133

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 10:08:36
156 scim#

Get a life you paranoid racist.
134

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 10:09:18
154 Brownlie

Do you even know what a subliminal message means? It wouldn't be a headline you fool. A head-line naturally attracts the attention overtly.

Why are you so stupid that you can't even understand the media as a school-child would?
135

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:09:36
156 Scimitar1

What alternative party or suggestion do you propose?
136

,

06/11/2008 10:10:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
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137

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 10:11:29
157 Yeah 1#

Wonder why Labour have not revived the 'things can only get better' tune for their campain? After all they can't get any worse really can they?
138

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 10:12:03
#124 sm

Sorry, sm, I couldn't resist re-posting your wonderful amalgamation of Ernest Hemingway sentence construction, with Dave Spartist oratory.

"Everybody is an individual some dont even need health care some need it all the time some only need it some of the time some are with the NHS some have private insurance and none of it is based on a class structure of hierachy values only the availability of the treatment is and thats thanks to 20 years of conservative dogma."

Cracking stuff, thanks.
139

Lianachan,

Highlands 06/11/2008 10:12:06
#157 Well, the headline is factually incorrect, and biased towards the existing government. That is par for the course here. Apparently, this is nothing new. Earlier this week I was reading a letter, written in 1884, to the Secretary of State to complain about the use of troops and armed plain clothes police to supress crofters in Skye. The letter was fiercely critical of the constant pro-government, anti-Scottish stance of the Scotsman (and some other papers). The Scotsman, however, was explicitly marked out for criticism.
140

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 10:13:19
#163

"Wonder why Labour have not revived the 'things can only get better' tune for their campain? After all they can't get any worse really can they?"

Probably because it is a rubbish song...
141

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 10:15:11
Example of a subliminal message for Brownlie:

You shOuld edUcate yourself A bit betteR or aRe you Thinking tHat thIs Constant stream of cacK thAt comeS From yoU Contains anythinK of merit?
142

JenJen,

06/11/2008 10:16:15
It amazes me that constituency activity is thought to have any effect at all. Does anyone here honestly welcome some bug-eye fanatic with a wee lapel badge asking them if they think life being nicer is a Good Thing, on their private doorstep - so close to Hallowe'en?
143

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:16:50
159 All hail the highly intelligent entity that calls herself viva victoria after her previous monikers have been ridiculed into non-existence.

Yes, your graciousness, I do know what subliminal means. If you get off the train at Euston and see a newspaper poster which says "SNP steal ..." you may not be aware of the poster but it registers on your sub-conscience and it is retained in your memory even if it's as nonsensical as your postings.
144

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 10:17:14
#165

"Well, the headline is factually incorrect, and biased towards the existing government. That is par for the course here. Apparently, this is nothing new."

Well unfortunately thats life, newspapers have always been biased for or against particular parties - for example Daily Mail/Telegraph - Tory, Guardian - Labour.

Maybe all the SNP supporters should stop complaining about it and pool together their resources and start their own pro-SNP newspaper?
145

,

06/11/2008 10:19:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
146

,

06/11/2008 10:20:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
147

Lianachan,

Highlands 06/11/2008 10:20:41
#171 What would be the point in that? I'd rather read actual news, impartial, objective, and written with integrity and dignity.
148

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 06/11/2008 10:20:46
#132 "Your comments on the minimum wage are a bit retentive, though. You want it repealed so that it is more attractive to go on the dole, again?"

No, I want it at least doubled. There's nothing wrong with the concept of a minimum wage, indeed exactly the opposite is true. But the sick joke of a minimum wage Labour have introduced has the reverse effect.

The truth of the matter is, for most low-paid people it currently IS far more financially attractive to be on the dole. The only thing stopping unemployment being even higher is the social stigma attached to it - working people have pride in supporting themselves even if they have to work like slaves and do multiple jobs, destroying their quality of life in order to get a survivable income. Why else do you think Labour are so desperately and so viciously stepping up that social stigma with "welfare reforms" that basically criminalise being unemployed?

A single person on the minimum wage for a full-time job will take home about £9,800 a year after tax. That same person on Jobseeker's Allowance and Housing Benefit of £500 a month (which is a low estimate) will take home £8800. However, the working person will have to pay for travel to work, clothes, equipment and so on, almost inevitably leaving them worse off. (Plus, of course, they're having to spend 40 hours a week doing what's almost certainly a crappy, miserable job.) The unemployed also get concessionary prices on some things, and in the unlikely event that they have money to spare for entertainment, can travel or go to cinemas and the like at off-peak times when it's cheaper.

Single childless people can pretty much forget about applying for Working Tax Credit to supplement their meagre income, because the government is desperate for people to breed in order that someone will pay for our pensions in 20-30 years time - having wasted all the money that should have funded them on illegal wars, PFI, vanity projects and management consultants. There is al
149

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:22:19
165 Lianachan

You are probably aware that the then owner of Uist and Benbecula made an offer to the then Government to get rid of all the residents from Uist and Benbecula to make it into a prison colony to save the excessive costs of sending convicts to Australia.

The fact that he could charge the Government for this service did not come into the equation.
150

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 06/11/2008 10:22:21
(cont'd)

There is almost no extra support for the childless poor in Britain.

In addition, if you're already unemployed, there are so many bureaucratic hoops to jump through if you want to move into work that you will almost certainly be SIGNIFICANTLY worse off for the first few weeks, something most poor people can ill afford even in the short-term.

The majority of the population has absolutely no idea just what an absolutely disastrous mess the benefits system is in, or of how appallingly it traps poor people in poverty. The minimum wage as it stands today is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
151

,

06/11/2008 10:23:03
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152

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 10:24:11
#173

"Yes thats right nobody should ever complain about a state run media"

er.....The Scotsman isn't state run....
153

,

06/11/2008 10:24:51
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154

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 06/11/2008 10:25:03
#168 "Example of a subliminal message for Brownlie:"

"YOU ARR THICK AS F**K"?

Zounds, the irony.
155

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:25:31
168 Viva

It must be obvious to all readers on here that compared to you all posters are not very intelligent. I believe the Scotsman published figure to support your gross over-estimation of the high regard in which you are held by all on here.
156

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 10:27:30
Viva#

oink oink
157

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 10:27:54
#180

"No of course not its impartial and run by the people for the people."

Er....no its run by a private company, and its obviously not impartial....
158

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 10:29:07
170 Brownlie

"SNP Steals.." is deliberately subliminal now?! Wow, does the Scotsman want us all think the SNP are really an American Baseball team?

Or maybe pot smoking hippie idiots like yourself may think like, dood, like totally steel is like Iron and that dude, like Irn Bru man, dood, I got the munchies, this gear is totally wicked and that man, it's all a consipiracy, dood, but when I smoke weed I can see their tricks.

You really an imbicile, sir. Subliminal headlines, whatever next will you come up with. Do keep them coming though, your deranged lunacy used to embarass me, but now I've warmed to it, I just have a jolly good laugh at your paranoid dribblings.
159

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:30:26
181 REV Campbell

Thanks, Rev, no wonder us readers are in awe of her every word.

They think "Awe, there she blows again".

Moderator - its a whaling term with no sexual connotations.
160

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 10:32:07
185 Kimba#

I thought you were a classroom assistant or cleaner or something in some school, you lost your job?

You should be working instead of spending the taxpayers money online!
161

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:35:45
185 Viva Victoria/kimba/vimto/Elizabeth the Fist.

I thought the fact that I'm an "imbicile" was not general knowledge on this thread. I will now have to follow your example and consider adopting a different moniker now that you've revealed all with your usual incisiveness and intuition.
162

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:38:20
185 Viva Victoria

Hey, viva, the message in the head-line is even more subliminal now but it will be retained in your memory banks!
163

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 10:38:24
Yes the headline has changed, but what does it *really* mean?

"Labour stages last push..." Labour, labour of pregnancy, stages, think theatrical, last push, aha! pregnancy again... I have a cunning plan baldrick, let's make everyone Labour is a theatre loving new mother on a maternity unit, and the SNP are war mongers.


QUACK QUACK it's all subliminal. BROWNLIE You've blown my mind dood, QUACK QUACK, subliminal, yeah man, I totally see it too.
164

Lianachan,

Highlands 06/11/2008 10:40:15
#176 Well, a certain Clan Chief from the Western Isles actually sold dozens of his clan into slavery. The ship that was transporting them was wrecked on the north coast of Ireland, where the locals couldn't believe it. They, and the survivors, were understandably furious. Many Highlanders were sold into slavery, but it doesn't seem to be widely known. Even though slavery has been a feature of almost all socities at some stage through history - slaves and slavery these days seem to be associated almost exclusively with Africa.
165

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:43:21
185 Nevsky

Don't be so silly. Why would a classroom assistant sneer at, and disparage, jobs carried out by toilet attendant, waiters, Head-waiters, chefs, head chefs, head-greenkeepers, hotel managers etc etc?
166

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 10:44:20
How madly bamamged is Brownlie's dind?

Who sits at home all day cheating the decent middle classes out of their hard earned money trying to decode the "Subliminal" messages in the paper?

It really is medication time. Does the doctor know about these paranoid thought that are creeping back into your mind? Maybe your dosage is wrong.

Maybe MI6 really run this paper, Brownlie? They're out to get you so bad, man.
167

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:46:56
191 kimba

The "last push" was stolen from the 1st World War where the cannon-fodder were urged by Generals, from the safety of their HQ, to go over the top to gain a few feet of land. Sadly, for far too many of them, it was the last push.
168

brownlie,

06/11/2008 10:51:03
194 Viva

I sit at home because, at present, I have no alternative but to gaze in wonder at the contribution to education, education, education, that you and nulabour have made over the past decade.

Are you any good at shoe-lacing?

Every time you look in the mirror do you, involuntarily, burst into a chorus of the "Donkey Serenade"?
169

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 06/11/2008 10:59:20
#185 "You really an imbicile, sir."

Another classic! Keep 'em coming!

LOL.
170

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 06/11/2008 11:02:57
I agree with comment #146 that we cannot possibly know the mindset of voters about independance or the union in a parliamentary election.However,political parties act as if they do know voters intentions.Regarding the suggestion that many votes for the SNP in Glenrothes will be a protest vote against Labour,I would say,so what?All parties benefit from that.The SNP does not have an exclusive monopoly on protest votes.

People would not protest unless thay had something to protest about.In Fife voters should protest about the fact that in an energy rich nation,we have fuel poverty.That doesn't seem right.If they make the connection between such matters and independance,the protest is likely to be sustained until real change takes place.I have been protesting all of my voting life about the invisability of my nation,among the other independant nations in this world.I am protesting about the exclusion of Scotland from international forums,the inability of Scotland to access its wealth in order to achieve the high standards of living in the Scandanavian countries.

I hope that my fellow Fifers protest very strongly today.Whatever happens we live in interesting times where the only certainty is that change will occur.
171

Codger Macsween,

Deep in the Kingdom 06/11/2008 11:03:10
I wrote this a minute ago on another story, but, just to reiterate - I don't want independence at all, and I don't care about the war in Iraq/Afghanistan. I do care about the future for my family.

I can't understand why Brown has sold off HBOS jobs down to England? Why? He didn't do that to Northern Rock.

For that reason, I'm putting my cross somewhere unfamilar today. I am fed up of Labour. And, to be fair, the snp has done "better than expected" in holyrood, so fair play.
172

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 11:05:49
197 Rev

Trust you to highlight that my posts have less of the "are's" about them than your or Brownlie's. Reckon it could be subliminal?
173

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 11:05:53
#200

"I can't understand why Brown has sold off HBOS jobs down to England?"

Because otherwise HBOS would have collapsed and there wouldn't be any jobs at all.
174

Codger Macsween,

06/11/2008 11:05:56
#198 - to be fair, the SNP also get called "old school socialists" - take your pick! But, do you know if Labour is socialist or just populist today?
175

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 11:07:19
198 joe#

'anyone with one iota of brain power' stop it Kimba!
176

Codger Macsween,

06/11/2008 11:08:32
#202 - Not the case - the Government announced that it would underwrite all bank lending after the proposed Lloyds merger cropped up. Why? And why have they saved Northern Rock as an entity?

It is simply not an even playing field - Brown is so scared of middle England he is riding rough-shod over his own people.
177

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 11:10:10
205 Codger#

You have to wonder why Ireland has secured all of it's banks and Scotland as part of the union is in danger of losing two while being touted as having been 'saved'!
178

Codger Macsween,

06/11/2008 11:15:05
Hi Nevsky - I'm essentially a Labour guy, I will go back there when the rot has sorted, but on this I agree with the SNP. They have taken their core support for granted. They have sold off Scotland's banks and, more importantly than the nationality of the bank, they have robbed the jobs. That is what gets me.
179

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 11:16:21
206

You don't have to wonder. It's because Ireland a wreckless gamblers. If their guarantees were called in, Ireland would take the best part of a century to pay all that back.

No point in promising something you can't deliver and running the risk of placing all your citizens in debt up to their eye balls.

97% of Britain is covered. That is good enough. If it goes t!ts up then at least only the rich suffer.
180

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/11/2008 11:21:27
A Labour "push"?

:)
181

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/11/2008 11:22:36
#207 Does Labour corruption bother you as well?

Mr Marshall for example?
182

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 11:24:17
207 Codger#

I agree (not the Labout bit though). Scotland has proved to be completely impotent within the union and has no control over it's own desting.

The fact that Lloyds chairman can say 'i don't give a sh*t' about the BOS' and move the bank wholesale to London says a lot about the union.
183

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/11/2008 11:25:02
#208 V V

"No point in promising something you can't deliver and running the risk of placing all your citizens in debt up to their eye balls."

Bless your naivety !

Time for all insurance companies to pack up and go home! Viva Victoria has spoken.

When it come to speaking before engaging brain, VV has no equal !
184

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06/11/2008 11:25:08
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185

brownlie,

06/11/2008 11:34:19
212 connaughtboy

"engaging brain" - how kind!
186

Codger Macsween,

06/11/2008 11:39:18
That Viva Victoria person is entertainingly stupid! :)) I had a good laugh at that one!
187

Alan B,

06/11/2008 11:50:54
#Joe

So Joe given that labour have been completely useless, incompetent and corrupt who would you suggest voting for.

Also given that the snp are persuing policies such as

-free school meals
-abolishing student loans (yes they have gone back on paying off existing student debt built up under the right wing labour policy of student loans),
-abolishing prescription charges
-moving hospital cleaning back to the public sector
-saving A&E wards from labour closure

how can you seriously say the snp are tartan tories.


How can policies like abolishing road tolls be crushing jobs?

Also the money spent by the scottish parliament is largely set by westminster and a such 99% of the budget is set by westminster.

So if you are complaining about lack of resources because labour only gave the scottish government a 0.5% increase in its first year and 1.4% over 3yrs significantly less than labour awarded scottish labour execs in the first 8yrs of the parliament, the blame lies with Brown.

But in truth the reason the scottish parliament got such a poor increase is due to brown making such a mess of public finances he had to cut back to stop the rot. Unfortunately it was too little too late as global events mean labour have entered a different economic climate with poor economic fundamentals.

Vote labour, you would have to be an idiot.
188

Brian Hill,

06/11/2008 11:50:56
"....because Labour had "narrowed the gap so much that we are within striking distance"."

For those of us who were around in the days when we were asked: 'Canvassing for the SN what son?', that simple statement is absolutely incredible.
189

Alan B,

06/11/2008 11:52:47
#Viva Victoria

So we gamble on the union and lose.

Ireland gambles on independence and wins.


You would think we would learn that british governments are not interested in scotland or its welfare.
190

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 12:01:16
218

What have we lost?

What has Ireland gained?

You strike me as an idiot whose points lack substance or have basis in reality.

You stink, coz you do.

I don't, coz I don't.

Some of us gave up arguing like that in our childhoods.
191

TWC,

Ayrshire 06/11/2008 12:27:25
SNP are 1/4 while Labour are 5/2

Leave Gordy's bones in England Still not a single Scottish Policy and the votings half done
192

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 06/11/2008 12:33:52
#219 vv

Ahh, the over-weight kimba in a thin disguise !
193

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 12:47:28
Another excellent post from Traquir 49 and 50.

We should all be copying and pasting these posts for future arguments on Independence.

Our discussions with friends at work, at home, down the pub etc will play a crucial role in gaining a YES vote in the forth coming Referendum.

And there is nothing like being able to quote SOURCES to back up our arguments.

Traquir posts like 49/50 give us Information and Sources. Let's begin now amassing the tools to help us win over our friends and work colleagues because the arguments have already started and will pick up steam following a victory in Glenrothes today.
194

brownlie,

06/11/2008 12:50:44
218 Alan

Well, there's your answer at #119 - irrefutable logic as usual. You'll need to join the rest of us nonentities at VV's knee to be instructed in debate.
195

Arfur,

06/11/2008 12:53:02
Lindsay Roy - Under SNP I have had a budget reduction at my school.

Interviewer - Ehh this piece of paper says you got an increase.

Lindsay Roy - Ehh oh well erm ehh I contest those figures, Ssshhhuu dont you know that us at Labour just make things up.
196

brownlie,

06/11/2008 12:53:27
223 should read 219 - I am dazed and dazzled by unassailable logic.
197

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 06/11/2008 12:58:03
#86 Marion is another post worthy of being copied and pasted into our Independence folders.
198

Brian Hill,

06/11/2008 13:09:02
# 122 Thanks for this proof of ownership of the slogan YES WE CAN John S:

http://tinyurl.com/5shabs
199

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 13:11:36
Brownlie, can you tell us some more about the subliminal headlines the Scotsman newspaper runs? Maybe Brian Hill can put them in his Primary School folder project as evidence.
200

The Sprucer,

06/11/2008 13:19:45

#231

You must be probably the thickest blogger I've came across this century.
201

The Sprucer,

06/11/2008 13:21:14
#231

Your post at #219 is a remarkable piece of rubbish.
202

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 13:23:34
232 Wow, you've been able to read for almost nine years now?

Go on, pull the other one! Using "must" and "probably" in the same description, you can't be older than 12, so I don't believe you.
203

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 13:27:02
232 The sprucer

You are maybe definately an Oasis fan?
204

brownlie,

06/11/2008 13:28:39
231 Viv vic

To understand or be influenced by subliminal messages requires a mind capable of thought so I'm afraid that you will never understand or be influenced by them.

Your training should have made you aware that the logic that appeals to young children is entirely different from the logic that appeals to adults.
205

Arfur,

06/11/2008 13:32:17
#93 The Tin Man

Why did the Labour government introduce the minimum wage? - To give companies a national number (below the poverty level) to keep wages low. With no min wage people go to the job with the best wages, driving them up.

Why did the Labour government improve the NHS? Eh when did that happen then? I think you will find the NHS is in a mess, with a black hole for a budget.

Why did the Labour government improve education? Ehh they didnt - they lowered exam criteria making it easier to pass. How does this improve education in your eyes. According to many education is a mess and needs a complete new direction.

Why has unemployment plummeted? Ehh unemployemnt stayed fairly level for years and has increased over the last 18 months except in Scotland which this year under SNP stewardship we have the lowest levels of unemployment ever. Very much unlike the year before that.

Why do you not up-sticks and go and live in Ireland? Why dont you up-sticks down south and prepare your butt for a pounding by your beloved union party members?
206

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 13:32:43
236 Brownlie

You really are an idiot, aren't you?

Subliminal thought is unconcious thought, so ipso facto I would not have to have a mind capable of (self-concious) thought of the kind you mention.

I am drinking a cup of tea that has a higher IQ than you.
207

brownlie,

06/11/2008 13:40:19
238 viv

To have a thought, conscious or sub-conscious you have to have a mind in the first place.

Your posts amply demonstrate that your mind, such as it is, is neither logical nor employed.

Do have a look at the Scotsman head-lines - not the actual article - for the past two week and let everyone know if you were influenced one way or another, consciously or sub-consciously.

From the logic displayed in your postings I would say you were adversely affected.

How were things in the playground this morning?
208

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 13:48:55
240 Brownlie

You're an idiot. Everyone has a mind. To call someone brainless, how imaginative.

But we digress, can you give some examples for Brian Hill's primary school folder project of subliminal head-lines?

Or do you now admit you were caught red handed dealing industrial strength manure?
209

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 13:56:44
Private Eye Quote of the Year

"The Scottish banks are amongst the most stable financial institutions in the world"

Alex Salmond February 2008

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7224987.stm

Ooops.

He was obviously a top economist.
210

Calvinist,

Independence for Partick-Political free zone now! 06/11/2008 13:57:27
Defeat for Labour would be devastating for the party, even more so than in Glasgow East.

No it won't. It will hardly register in Westminster. The
loss of one more seat will have zero impact now on the future of Brown and New Labour.

It will give Salmond a fillip no doubt but it will be a hollow undeserved victory. The SNP are even more crassly stupid than New Labour and will eventually wreck Scotland along with the UK. One day Salmomd's ego will inflate to the point where it bursts.
211

brownlie,

06/11/2008 14:00:27
241 viva

Spot the anomaly in this sentence:

"You're an idiot. Everyone has a mind. To call someone brainless, how imaginative"

Do you, also, know the meaning of the word "imbecile"? - note the spelling.

I'm sure head-master Lindsay Roy will be head-hunting you when he goes back to his job.

Finally, and I mean finally, to understand the significance of subliminal messages you need a mind capable of absorbing knowledge so I feel I was wasting my time trying to explain it to you.
212

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 14:05:51
243 Calvinist,Independence

Exactly correct. The snp bused in up to 5000 canvassers if their figures are to be believed.

If they do win, then thats why.

They could not muster anyhthing like that kind of figure in a General Election.

Makes you wonder if they are all on the dole.
213

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 14:06:32
244 Brownlie

Can you give some examples of subliminal messages for Brian Hill's folder project?

I'd like to know, I presume your failing to do so can be taken to mean you are a little embarassed at the rhubarb fertiler you were spewing all over this forum this morning.

Subliminal headlines me bum.
214

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 14:06:47
#242

"The Scottish banks are amongst the most stable financial institutions in the world"

Alex Salmond February 2008

Right up there with John McCain's "the US economy is fundamentally sound" quote - and look what happened to him!
215

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 14:07:47
Even Salmond's own economic advisor thinks his core policy is flawed.

"Alex Salmond was dealt a double blow last night after a new study suggested an independent Scotland would be almost £1 billion in debt and one of his own economic advisers warned of the “dire” consequences of separation."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4969318.ece
216

lulach mac gille coemgain,

06/11/2008 14:08:13
Labour - increasing the dole que !
217

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 14:11:48
Professor John Kay, a member of the first minister’s council of economic advisers, said that the economic consequences of Scotland going it alone could be disastrous.

Pointing to the impact of the credit crunch on Ireland, Norway and Iceland, described by Salmond in the past as an “arc of prosperity” of which an independent Scotland could be part, he said: “It’s much easier for small countries to mess up in times of economic instability. Take Iceland . . . it is the best poster-child for small countries that can’t go it alone.”

Kay, a visiting professor at the London School of Economics, said an independent Scotland could not have bailed out the Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS, as Gordon Brown had.

“Scotland as an independent monetary entity probably wouldn’t have been big enough to bail out either HBOS, RBS or both,” he said. “If Scotland declared itself an independent country tomorrow its finances would look pretty dire.”

218

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 14:15:59
#237 Arfur

It must be very dark with your early-20's head stuck up there.

Vote Green
219

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 14:17:04
# 229

Marinka - Warrior Plagiarist?
220

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 14:19:11
Five months ago when the price of oil soared to $120 (£70) a barrel, Grant Thornton, the leading city accountancy firm, calculated that Scotland would have a budget surplus of £4.4 billion, making it one of the wealthiest small countries in the world.

Using the Grant Thornton model, a new analysis by The Sunday Times, based on the price of oil falling to about $75 a barrel last week, found Scotland would be in the red.

The findings underline how the economic prospects of an independent Scotland depend on volatile oil prices, which hit a 14-month low last week as the economic downturn cut global demand.

The updated findings are a serious blow to the SNP, which cited Grant Thornton’s previous calculation last week as evidence that Scots would be better off under independence.
221

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 14:19:25
#246 Viva Victoria

Brown's a big fat neep.

#244 Brownlie

Salmond's a big fat neep.
222

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 14:23:46
254

Agreed. Both those Gentleman are unpopular vegetables.
223

Matt there,

Somewere 06/11/2008 14:27:56
"LABOUR campaigners vowed last night to keep canvassing on the doorsteps of Glenrothes "until people stop answering the doors..."

Or until they give you an answer you won't like!
224

brownlie,

06/11/2008 14:30:03
246 viva#

Okay, one last try.

Do you recall what the head-line said? It said that the SNP had stolen the slogan from Obama. The implicit message is that the SNP were incapable of an imaginative slogan and had to steal one from another politician. The head-line was untrue, but it would have been read by the diminishing readership of this paper and taken as being the truth.

If you further look at the picture you will see that the caption states that Grant and Salmond have adopted Obama's slogan which is, in fact, not true but the readership who do not look any further than the head-lines will, again, take it as the truth.

That is the subliminal and false message conveyed to the readership.

I now have better things to do than attempt to put things in perspective for some-one with no capacity to absorb knowledge.
225

brownlie,

06/11/2008 14:31:16
254 The Tin Man

At last, some help for viva victoria - nice one!!
226

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 14:32:01
Hey Spanners/priest/sm7531/2/parcel.

Why do you post under multiple names?

Why did you copy sm753's id? Does it make you feel good impersonating him?

You are clearly a weirdo.

BEGONE YOU FAKE.
227

Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 14:36:36
259 Brownlie

Yes, yes, but that is not a subliminal headline. Can you give me an example of something subliminal? I don't think you can use the word in a sentence properly.

Alex Salmond is using that slogan again because of all the good will generated by Barack Obama, this an example of subliminal messaging.

People who say "Yes we can" are popular and succesful. The SNP are being subliminal by trying to steal the goodwill generated in America and in the wonderful speeches broadcast here.

So when the Scotsman said the SNP wanted to steal that, it was editorial slant and perfectly overt and appropriate a Newspaper run that headline if they wish. But it is still not subliminal.

You really are a bit incapable of understanding what is happening in the world around you. SNP blinkers have been welded on to you.
228

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 14:37:54
#257

"Yes We Can - SNP" - apparently used by the SNP in 1997, then discarded until it is used by Obama and the SNP suddenly decide to re-use it again - jumping on the bandwagon anyone?

Maybe if Obama starts using 'things can only get better' as his theme tune, Labour will do the same again...
229

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06/11/2008 14:40:47
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brownlie,

06/11/2008 14:41:27
262 V V


If it was perfectly overt and appropriate why have they changed it?
231

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06/11/2008 14:42:23
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06/11/2008 14:43:00
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Viva Victoria ,

06/11/2008 14:47:18
265 Brownlie

I don't know why they changed it. Just because something changes, it doesn't mean it is bad.

A few examples for you.

Traffic lights.

Catterpillars.

The weather.

You really need to try and understand things in the world around you, seeing connections is seeing meaning.

It is possible to change something normal into something else normal.

Anyway, any examples of subliminal messaging in the Scotsman newspaper? Or do you finally admit you were pumping out your mouth earlier?
234

Alan B,

06/11/2008 14:48:14
#242 Rufus T. Firefly

I know you seem intellectually challenged. But it was the FSA the new regulatory body set up by Brown to ensure stability of our financial institutions that said the banks were in good shape and well capitalised.

The only people with inside knowledge of the state of the banks were the banks and Brown and his FSA.
235

Libertarian!,

Plymouth 06/11/2008 15:02:57
Scotia will forever remain an insignificant spoke in the Westminster political wheel,UNLESS; we regain our basic democratic right too decide the future destiny of our own nation since it was given away by a handful of shameful Aristocracy who rode roughshod over our people without any consultation or consent. Rabbie Burns lambasted the legalised crooks in his poem against the illegal Union with his immortal words;
WE'RE BOUGHT AND SOLD FOR ENGLISH GOLD,
SUCH A PARCEL OF ROGUES IN A NATION.
Blair regarded this nation as nothing more than a district of Northern England like his predecessors of Thatcherite Tories who rubbished our nation for eighteen long years when they were kept in office by those down south.
We must never repeat that experience for the future sake off our young generation of Scots.
236

Nevsky,

Moscow 06/11/2008 15:03:08
245 Rufus#

What is shocking is this quote from the Guardian:

'But Labour has had huge difficulties matching the Nationalist by-election machine and its saturation canvassing of the 40,000 Glenrothes voters. Labour has bussed in supporters from the north of England to help, but it hasn't made a significant difference on the ground. Labour needs a polling day miracle to save this seat.'


The fact that Labour in 2008 has to bus in from England canvassers is quite astonishing. If you said 20 years ago they could not muster canvassers in Scotland you would have been laughed at.

Desperate times for Labour in Scotland!
237

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 15:07:19
#269

"Obama, in being in part a proud Scot, was obviously aware of form his knowledge of Scottish politcs"

Please don't embarass yourself by copying Salmond's 'claiming' of Obama as Scottish.

Its pathetic - he is not 'in part a proud Scot', anymore than he is a proud Irish - where another of his ancestors came from.

and obviously he didn't become aware of the 'yes we can' slogan from his 'knowledge' of Scottish politics - Even if he knows who the SNP are, he isn't going to have any knowledge of an electoral slogan they used in 1997.

Ridiculous....
238

brownlie,

06/11/2008 15:10:38
268 vv

Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh, you are a shining wit! If I said you had a one-track mind it would probably be a compliment!

Comparing the Scotsman's editors to traffic lights/caterpillars/weather is probably quite appropriate but quite hilarious.
239

Thomas1,

// 06/11/2008 15:17:27
Ding Dong,
who's that at my door?
i'm canvansing for the labour party and we would like to give you a lift down to the polling station!
Ok,just give me five minutes and i'll boil up a big pan of hot water.
240

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06/11/2008 15:24:46
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06/11/2008 15:25:15
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TWC,

Ayrshire 06/11/2008 15:33:20
SNP 1/5 Labour 3/1

Yeah1/JKPriest/ Rufus T. Firefly/ Viva Victoria/ The Tin Man

Good news eh?
243

Yeah1,

06/11/2008 15:42:49
#279

"SNP 1/5 Labour 3/1

Yeah1/JKPriest/ Rufus T. Firefly/ Viva Victoria/ The Tin Man

Good news eh?"

Not too sure why you are including me alongside the others listed, as if you think I'm a labour supporter?

Anyway the betting odds are irrelevant - they could have been caused by thousands of SNP supporters betting on their party as they were urged to do a few days ago.

The actual election result is what is of interest.
244

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:44:47
#279 TWC

Vote Green!
245

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:47:14
#280 Yeah1

There are very rarely any Labourite posters on the Scotsman, but anyone who quostions the SNP is automatically branded by the party-policical automatons.

Ho hum.
246

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:48:01
#282 Spook

...Because Celtic were robbed last night...
247

TWC,

Ayrshire 06/11/2008 15:48:04
Yeah Yeah1

Did anybody see Ian Gray have a dig at wee Salmond.
He said that Salmond was no Barak Obama but wee eck came back with Unfortunately Ian Gray was no Jack Mcconnell.
He must have sucked another lemon after that, cause his face was like Fizz.
248

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06/11/2008 15:50:09
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:51:50
#278 Traquir

You are not a socialist, so you should be happy. I though it was common knowledge that the Labour party was slightly left-of-centre now-a-days, rather than being a 'socialist party'?
250

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06/11/2008 15:53:15
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:53:29
#287 Spook

Should have been abou 4-1 Celtic. The result was totally against the run of play...

But unfortunately, the Greens are the only party who wish to give us worse, colder weather.
252

The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:54:58
#289 sm

"We"? When were you assimilated, young cyborg?
253

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06/11/2008 15:55:14
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,

06/11/2008 15:57:50
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 15:59:47
#294 sm

Congratulations on your new position as Spokesman for the Human Race.
256

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06/11/2008 16:01:57
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TWC,

Ayrshire 06/11/2008 16:03:14
I'm not a Celtic man but I did sssooo want them to put Ferguson's Gas at a peep.

258

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06/11/2008 16:04:21
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06/11/2008 16:04:34
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,

06/11/2008 16:04:51
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06/11/2008 16:06:25
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 16:15:01
#296 Spook

Jocky Wilson's a big fat neep.
263

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06/11/2008 16:17:14
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06/11/2008 16:19:52
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The Tin Man,

06/11/2008 16:23:08
#300 Traquir

Of course, the SNP do not portray themselves to be right-wing in Perthshire, and left-wing in Glenrothes?
266

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06/11/2008 16:23:15
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06/11/2008 16:24:21
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BIG FAT BUSTER,

Dominoes 06/11/2008 16:45:33
Im a big fat Labour supporter and sponge of the state, at least i know my labour values.

PIZZA I WANT PIZZA NOW, WIBBLE WOBBLE WIBBLE WOBBLE I WANT PIZZA!!!
269

European Scot,

06/11/2008 16:46:06
308 The Spook in Leith

" I hope the Glenrothes by-election result is declared quicker than the Glasgow east count."

Any inside info likely on when the results might be announced ?
Hopefully all postal votes will have been carefully monitored.
Desperate times for Brown, desperate measures too, perhaps ?!
Saw a news piece on 'Euronews' about the by-election, but strangely, nothing on BBC World. Who would have guessed it ?!
The twee set with the rounded o's, certainly don't like showing anything to the World that questions their precious 'UK'.
270

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06/11/2008 16:50:06
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06/11/2008 16:53:08
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SNP hypocrisy,

06/11/2008 17:40:30
That fat presumptous oaf does not deserve to win Glenrothes. Wake up Glenrothes and vote Labour! Scotland must vote tactically from here on in, to remove the Natz!
273

New Town Resident,

06/11/2008 17:57:25
#324. Traquir

Hasn't the SNP split quite a few times in the past, after all its being going nowhere for the last 80 years now? There was a split in the 90s over the EU wasn't there, which led to the formation of the SEP?

Also your current leader led a split from the SNP in the 80s didn't he? Angels on the head of a pin wasn't it?

At the moment the SNP seems totally under the spell of the current leader's messianic style, but expect plenty more splits once he passes on.
274

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06/11/2008 18:27:01
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The Master,

06/11/2008 18:38:38
I'm fairly certain the Nationalists are going to win; the only reason I qualify with the word "fairly" is that I hear the unfortunate inhabitants of the constituency have taken to telling Nationalist canvassers that they will be voting for their party just so that they'll go away and leave them in peace.

Speaks volumes about the fanaticism of types attracted to nationalism, does it not?
276

brownlie,

06/11/2008 18:53:36
335 The modestly named Master

Cobblers!
277

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06/11/2008 20:05:19
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06/11/2008 20:19:49
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European Scot,

06/11/2008 20:33:50
337 Col Blimp

I am very wary when the message being sent out is the SNP will win, especially when it is coming from a Unionist.
Remember what Obama said in the last few days of his campaigning, about not getting complacent.
The danger is, many SNP voters faced with going out on a cold night to vote, but hearing about the SNP's likely success, might think it wasn't necessary to make the effort, if they felt it was already in the bag.
Looking at some of those Unionists who are pushing the idea that it will be an SNP success, does makes me wonder if dissuading SNP voters from going out on a cold night is exactly what they are trying to achieve.
Every vote counts !
280

Braes of Glenmiller,

The future 06/11/2008 20:51:26
SNP win by 2312.

Turnout almost same as last GE.
281

gloop,

06/11/2008 20:51:37
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/a-national-conversation/Tell-us/Blog/fmblog1/Q/pageNumber/55/desc/Fals


First Minister Alex Salmond

Friday, November 30, 2007

First Minister Alex Salmond We in the Scottish Government believe that sovereignty in Scotland lies with its people.



http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb61.htm



Make Way for Young Germany

by Joseph Goebbels

Power doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the people. You are the people's servants, and when you use power poorly, the people will take it away from you.
282

,

06/11/2008 20:53:25
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283

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 20:58:50
344 Col. Blimp­IV*,06/11/2008 20:55:06

"Fair point, it is probably the only weapon they have left in their armoury."

No Blimpy we also have the weather, have you forgotton your post already?

"The danger is, many SNP voters faced with going out on a cold night to vote, but hearing about the SNP's likely success, might think it wasn't necessary to make the effort, if they felt it was already in the bag."

HA HA HA HA


284

gloop,

06/11/2008 20:59:02
#343

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
285

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 21:00:02
Sorry, I meant Europeans post!
286

,

06/11/2008 21:13:22
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287

,

06/11/2008 21:32:41
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Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 21:34:00
Salmond congratulates Obama!

The deluded fat oaf probably thinks he's speaking as one international statesman to another.
289

Truth Teller www.oilofscotland.org,

http://www.glenrothesbyelection.co.uk 06/11/2008 21:35:14
YES WE CAN - because good people with positive values tend to prevail.

All at www.oilofscotland.org would like wish the SNP Scottish Government and Peter Grant all the best in the coming by election at Glenrothes

If another MP with Scotland's interest's at heart is elected into Westminster, this MP and the other 58 Scottish MP's could still be beaten 11 - 1 on anti Scottish policies brought before Westminster with its 529 English MP's. (NB there used to be 72 Scottish MP's till they were culled to 52 in 2005 when English MP's rose from 529 to 533)

However one more Scottish voice would be best for Scotland's interests rather than a English Labour Party controlled puppet. (who is campaigning on issues out with his remit as an Westminster MP as disclosed by Newsnight Scotland)

250,000 tonnes of radio active waste from London's 2012 Olympic site to be dumped in Falkirk, Scotland.

Maybe this SNP voice could condemn the "Secret decision to dump 250,000 tonnes of RADIO ACTIVE waste from the London 2012 Olympic Site in Landfill in Falkirk".

Green Party MSP Robin Harper said "Should Scotland's legacy from the Olympic Games really be hundreds of tons of polluted soil?" As reported on the front page of the Daily Mail Sunday the 2nd of November 2008.

BEFORE YOU VOTE READ THE "TOP SECRET" MCCRONE OIL REPORT

Read this "Top Secret" report before you vote, as it was kept secret from the Scottish people for over 30 years.

"the full significance of North Sea oil was not immediately apparent and it still remains in large measure disguised from the Scottish public by the DTI’s"


http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccrone_oil_reports.html

or if you prefer a pdf

http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf

or read the classified version

http://www.oilofscotland.org/MccronereportScottishOffice.pdf
290

,

06/11/2008 21:56:17
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291

arc of insolvency,

06/11/2008 21:56:28
More SNP paranoia I see. What hope they gives us all!!

A VOTE FOR THE SNP IS A VOTE FOR A PARTY THAT DOESN'T KEEP ITS MANIFESTO PLEDGES.
292

,

06/11/2008 21:59:25
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293

Jimmy Le Pie,

06/11/2008 22:34:40
Could I ask some of my fellow Scots to keep me up to date on the count. I'm on nichts with no tele or radio, just the internet.

SNP, for ALL the people of Scotland.
294

European Scot,

06/11/2008 22:54:20
363 Jimmy Le Pie

If you click on this STV site, it should keep you up to date.
The actual coverage starts after 11.40 gmt.

http://news.stv.tv/live/
295

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 22:55:01
#363 Jimmy news just in, Early polls on the BBC are showing a labour victory by 800 votes.
296

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 23:36:34
HAHAHAHA

LABOUR HAVE WON.

GIRUY Aberdeen Scot.

You can copy my id all you like and make as many disgusting posts as you like.

But one thing is clear.

YOU ARE A LOSER.

HA HA HA
297

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 23:37:14
BYE BYE ALEX SALMOND.

BYE BYE INDEPENDENCE.
298

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 23:39:24
What a slap in the chops for Salmond.

How many days did he spend campagning in Glenrothes again?

Political Earthquake???

HA HA
299

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 23:40:38
Check out Nicolas Coupon!!

Looks like there may have been a death in the family.
300

Rufus T. Firefly,

06/11/2008 23:52:59
Well done Aberdeen Scot.
#
What an idiotic loser you are.

 

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