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Fresh blow for Salmond over Trump affair

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Published Date: 21 December 2007
ALEX Salmond was at the centre of a fresh row over his handling of the Trump golf development yesterday after it emerged he paved the way for a meeting between the Scottish Government's chief planner and representatives of the Trump organisation.
The First Minister yesterday tried to regain the initiative on the Trump issue, which has dogged his administration for the past two weeks.

Donald Trump wants to build a £1 billion golf resort, affecting Mr Salmond's constituency of Gordon. His application was initially turned down by Aberdeenshire Council, but was subsequently "called in" by ministers, who will now make the final decision on whether it goes ahead.

Mr Salmond has been under pressure over a meeting he held with Trump representatives in his role as constituency MSP a day before the application was called in. He hit back yesterday by publishing answers to 54 parliamentary questions about the government's handling of the affair.

He also published a letter from Sir John Elvidge, the head of the Scottish civil service, absolving officials of any wrongdoing, and held a press conference to explain his position, releasing a full statement from John Swinney, the finance secretary, explaining the government's approach at the same time.

However, Mr Salmond was knocked off course after revealing he met Trump representatives on 3 December, then phoned Jim Mackinnon, the government's chief planner, to ask if Mr Mackinnon was allowed to meet the Trump officials. When Mr Mackinnon said he could, a meeting was arranged for the next day.

The First Minister insisted he had not arranged that crucial meeting and stressed everything he did was done in his role as the local constituency MSP. But his opponents argued that no ordinary MSP would have the access to Mr Mackinnon that Mr Salmond has, and suggested that he had brought undue influence to bear on the planning process.

At First Minister's Question's, Wendy Alexander, the Scottish Labour leader, claimed Mr Salmond had "bypassed" the planning directorate and "secured" a meeting for Mr Trump's representatives with Mr Mackinnon.

And she asked Mr Salmond: "Do you maintain this was merely the routine action of a constituency MSP, or is it misuse of the position of First Minister?"

Mr Salmond referred Ms Alexander to Sir John's letter which, he claimed, cleared officials of any wrong-doing. He added that "ministers and civil servants have acted with total propriety".

After First Minister's Questions, Labour tabled another 25 parliamentary questions on Mr Salmond's handling of the issue.

Jackie Baillie, Labour's business manager, said: "There are more questions than answers about how the First Minister has conducted himself."

Answers to questions that won't go away in £1bn golf resort row

Who arranged and initiated the meeting between the Scottish Government's chief planner and Trump representatives?

John Swinney, the finance secretary: "The chief planner (Jim Mackinnon] took a call from Mr Salmond in his capacity as a constituency MSP. Mr Salmond sought advice from the chief planner on whether it would still be permissible for the officials from the Scottish Government planning directorate to meet representatives of the Trump organisation.

"The chief planner confirmed officials can meet with parties involved in a planning application but only to discuss options and the procedural implications, not to consider the merits of the case. A request was then made by the Trump organisation representatives. The chief planner arranged the time and venue."

Were government resources used in advance of Mr Salmond's meeting with Trump representatives?

Mr Swinney: "The Government Car Service was used, but it is commonplace for civil servants, including special advisers, to travel with ministers in government cars, to assist ministers to use time spent travelling to progress government business.

"It is also common for the minister's government car to convey such civil servants to their destination. (Sir John Elvidge], the permanent secretary, is satisfied the use of government car services in this case was consistent with such general practice and was appropriate and pragmatic."

When you phoned the chief planner, did you ask him to hold a further meeting with the Trump organisation the following day?

Alex Salmond, First Minister, at yesterday's press conference: "I asked Jim Mackinnon whether it was permissible still for members of the planning directorate to meet representatives of the Trump organisation.

"Jim replied that it was. He requested and arranged the meeting, and not me."

When you were in New York recently, did you talk to Donald Trump at a dinner you both attended and, if so, did you talk about this development?

Mr Salmond: "I spoke to Donald Trump but it was a meeting of Scottish Development International, with many businesses present.

"There were clearly no discussions about (a] specific development, it was about Scotland and development strategy.

"I spoke to Mr Trump, but I didn't speak about this development."

If he offered you a membership of this golf course, would you take it?

Mr Salmond: "I would be duty- bound under the terms of the ministerial code to pay for any membership I took for any golf club, and I am quite certain membership of many golf clubs in Scotland might strain my means."

Do you believe this development will now go ahead or do you believe it has had it?

Mr Salmond: "We will have to let events take their course. It's best for me to leave the determination of these matters to ministers responsible for it and stick to my self-proclaimed ordinance of not making any public comment, which could be interpreted as being for or against this development."

Has the SNP received any £950 donations from the Trump organisation?

Mr Salmond: "No. The SNP has received no money from the Trump organisation of any kind."

Who was at the meeting between the chief planner and representatives of the Trump organisation?

Mr Swinney: "The meeting was attended by Jim Mackinnon and David Ferguson, head of planning decisions at the Scottish Government, along with George Sorial and Neil Hobday, from the Trump organisation."

Will you apologise for any inaccuracies in briefings to the media?

Mr Swinney: "The BBC approached government officials on 12 December with questions about the chief planner's telephone contacts with Aberdeenshire Council. Those were answered correctly on 12 December.

"On 13 December, the BBC refined its question by changing a limited number of words. During the course of a busy day, officials did not realise the question had been changed slightly and repeated the answer given the previous evening.

"Once the mistake was identified, officials clarified the position to the media at the earliest opportunity. I regret this unfortunate, but easily understood error occurred."

Why, following your meeting with Mr Trump's representatives, did you call the chief planner, by-passing the rest of the planning directorate to secure for them a meeting the following morning with the chief planner? And do you maintain that this was merely the routine action of a constituency MSP or is it really the misuse of the position of First Minister?

Mr Salmond, at First Minister's Questions: "I have a letter from the permanent secretary which makes it clear that no civil servant has acted with anything other than total propriety and no civil servant has been asked to do anything improper.

"Ministers and civil servants have acted with total propriety."

How many other constituency MSPs can call the chief planner directly, bypassing the planning directorate, and secure a meeting with developers within 24 hours and a call-in within 24 hours?

Mr Salmond: "The permanent secretary writes that he has unambiguous confirmation from the chief planner that at no time has he been instructed by any party to act improperly.

"The chief planner was once requested to participate in a discussion with the Trump organisation. The date was January 2006, the First Minister was Jack McConnell and the deputy first minister was Nicol Stephen."

Why has Mr Salmond's government been refusing since August, a period of three months, to meet developers proposing a £1.2 billion development to redevelop the Rosyth Naval Dockyard?

Mr Salmond: "The chief planner is meeting this developer as he is meeting many other developers in Scotland."

• The Ramblers Association Scotland yesterday launched an urgent fund-raising drive to help meet the costs of a potential legal challenge against the Trump organisation's development and costs incurred in its failed legal battle on public access rights against business tycoon Ann Gloag.

Click here to download the Written Answers from the Scottish Parliament. Adobe Acrobat is required to view this article.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 00:17:58
Where's the list of questions for Wendy?
2

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 00:24:49
Any pretence of quality or decency which this "Newspaper" may ever have had is long gone.

This latest "story" - a collection of nonsense masquerading as journalism, makes the Daily Record look like a serious newspaper.

Who is the editor of this drivel sheet? More to the point - who owns the Editor?
3

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 00:27:25
Blow?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7150000/newsid_7153900/7153986.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1
4

Comment is Free,

U.S. 21/12/2007 00:32:32
It is really sad to see the increasing influence of CNN in The Scotsman. If the Scotsman wants a fast ticket to becoming irrelevant it should continue publishing stories about non-events like this. CNN is often mistaken for innovative news coverage, so I guess The Scotsman can be forgiven for mistaking it for that. Really, who lets these people out of the journalism schools?

It appears that the crocodile is after Wendy this time, and it's Captain Brown who should be concerned about the ticking of the clock. I don't think there will be any Peter to save the Wendybird this time, who knows, maybe David Cameron will be dashing for her.
5

BIG EYE,

Paisley 21/12/2007 00:37:39


I tried to comment on the nonsense of this story but failed to get by the editorial control of this bastion of free speech.

If you want to be come the Scottish version of Pravda you are well on the way to success.
6

Sanny,

Glasgow 21/12/2007 00:39:59
This whole article is a complete distortion of the truth. How can any self respecting Editor pass this nonsense for publication. Will this paper publish a full retraction on its front page with appropriate headlines when Salmond wipes the floor with the committee in public?

Alex Salmond has being doing his job and that is representing the people who elected him. After eight years of a LibLab administration, that was little more than a post box for Westminster, the concept of working for the people may seem a strange concept, but get used to it the National Centred government is here to stay.

Now when will this paper turn to the very REAL corruption that is eating into the body politic? The disgusting money grubbing of the New Labour Party, both North and South of the border. Why have the police not called upon Wendy to answer questions on her potentially illegal actions? Why has the evidence in documents and computers not been seized to prevent possible contamination?

These are the question any self respecting Journalist should and would be asking.

I suppose we should be grateful to Wendy and Nichol; between them the have totally destroyed what little credibility their respective parties had and shown the doubters that the only way forward is Independence.
7

,

21/12/2007 00:41:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Vivas,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 00:44:02
In the area where I live, when folk take their dog for a walk, they take along a plastic bag to pick up and bin the dog shoite.

I would suggest a more bio-degradeable but more suitable candidate for parcelling the shoite would be the newspaper formerly known as "The Scotsman".
9

subrosa,

21/12/2007 00:45:24
'Fresh Blow' - utter nonsense. 'Paved the way for a meeting.....' Isn't that what MSPs are paid to do? I'd expect my MSP to do that for me if we were discussing a matter face to face. Get a grip Scotsman.

What about Wendy? Oh of course you've no comments on her because she doesn't allow the media to interview her or her cohorts. Pathetic.
10

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 00:46:56
But didn't Salmond himself repeatedly say he was not involved in the planning process because that was "forbidden"? I do think he did.

Clearly the SNP Youth will be jumping to his defence as normal but there's no denying that Salmond has been caughting telling fat juicy porkies. I wonder what else he's hiding?

A politician caught telling lies to the electorate and to Parliament within seven months of office...MUST be a record. Surely.
11

Ricardo,

methil 21/12/2007 00:47:52
Haa!! forever .. "The Hootsman" Ive a guid mind to change to "The Scottish Daily Express" Vivas... Aye
12

Spotter,

21/12/2007 00:48:48
this is more good news for Alex
these days Pravda journalism does not work - hence no one at holyrood reads the record

its only very dumb people who cannot see through this
13

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 00:50:25
Quick scroll up and, sure enough, lots of 'SNP supporters' all posting within minutes of each other!

Sanny, are you also 'famous 15', 'Vivas', 'BIG EYE' and 'subrosa'? Mmm?
14

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 00:53:14
13
Ev
Don't you quite get the concept of A LOT of SNP Supporters...Hey is there not an SNP Government...?
15

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 00:55:27
Are you denying that the SNP Youth are using multiple usernames to make it look like there are more of them?

Are you?
16

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 00:59:44
15
Was that addressed to me,son?
17

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 00:59:58
Let's clear up one thing: as the MP for Buchan, it is Alex Salmond's JOB to facilitate inward investment that will benefit his constituents. As First Minister of Scotland, he should remain impartial. Therefore, legally, and until the law is changed, he uis perfectly legal to do this with his MP hat on. End of smear story.
18

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 01:01:00
16. I thought that was obvious!
19

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 21/12/2007 01:01:29
The Nat Frat are out in force.The FM has I'm sure not done anything wrong, it is all a matter of peception.
20

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:01:33
An English Voice

Are you profoundly disabled or just no social life? You are on these boards all day, every day, and now, apparently, into the wee small hours.
21

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 21/12/2007 01:01:41
r
22

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:02:04
18
There are so many of us,son.
23

Spotter,

21/12/2007 01:02:10
listen salmond did the right thing for scotland getting the chief planner involved

he himself had expressed no preference -- salmond is scrupulous on this stuff even in private

its a slow burn but massive win for him bring on jan 16th --
24

Canadian Jambo,

canada 21/12/2007 01:02:24
Hobnobbing with the big guys. Alex is still a tartan tory. Too bad. What a chance to have Scotland developed by people who have an interest in her other than pure commercialism.
25

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:02:47
English voice, (by the way only the kindest of heart would call me a youth)are you really suggesting that Wendy alexander was somehow able to obtain a piece of information that Sir John Elvidge was unable to get before writing his letter.

Now that is desperate.

Hi Conan.
26

Peeablo,

WendyGate 21/12/2007 01:04:44
Utter tosh !!!

More Trumped up garbage from the Hootsman.
27

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:04:53
25 ochone

Not a youth - I'm guessing at least SCS1
28

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:05:46
Remember Conan, in the case of English voice, it's not nice to mock the afflicted.
29

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 01:06:25
22. No denial. Shock, horror.

If there are so many of you, you wouldn't need to be a small bunch of tedious prats by posting under several names each, would you.
30

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:07:13
the profoundly impaired
31

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 01:08:05
20. Do you see the irony in YOUR post?
32

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:08:16
Incandesent, ok i'll bite SCS1?
could you explain please.
33

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:09:08
28
Ochone,ochone,but its FUN!Yehaah

How are ye doing?
34

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:09:12
29

I fought a 2 month running battle with some tool and the admin to reclaim my rightful name, so certainly not me.
35

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:10:01
32

Senior Civil Service, Grade 1 (Head of Division)
36

Spotter,

21/12/2007 01:12:32
alex is going to get in a good situation after all this
and wendy is prob heading for jail

and nicol for oblivion

cest las vie
37

ochone,

Sauchie,Clack's 21/12/2007 01:13:17
I don't know, I just pop away to post the next thrilling instalment of the AM2 family saga on my web page(entitled, Introducing Mildew Cringe) and when I get back it's to find the Scotsman has a report on First Ministers Questions that doesn't bear much resemblence to what I watched on TV
38

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:13:50
29
What you can't understand Ev.
That there is lots...and lots of us.
39

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:14:23
Wendy is a thoroughly unpleasant person - it's not just special advisors who left under her command
40

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 21/12/2007 01:14:29
Wendy Alexander has come out of hiding to attack Alex Salmond. Who would have believed it? She must scent blood. Maybe now that she's back in the public domain we can expect some answers from her?
41

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:16:26
Fine Conan thank's.

The senior bit was right but that was the only bit incandescent, but thanks i'll take it as a compliment.

I think.
42

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:16:35
...and out of the public eye, expletives
43

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 01:19:41
38. No, there isn't and you know it!

What's the real number? Four? Five?

44

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:20:12
41 - Ochonie

Must've been your measured tone, together with your use of "Sir" John Elvidge. Most folk don't know who the Permanent Secretary is. By the way, the knighthood is automatic after one year in charge of a Government Department (which the so-called Scottish Government is still considered by the Civil Service)
45

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:20:38
Six?
46

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:21:23
43
Well there is me.
And that is all I can vouch for.
47

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:25:53
43
However there happens to be an SNP Scottish Government.
Hmm.So there is only four or five of us.
48

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:26:54
Conan does that mean your not me then?
49

Ard Righ,

The Rock Of Edinburgh 21/12/2007 01:27:49
I have not seen the area proposed for this Golf Course, the real and only question is, is this appropriate for the area?

Personally speaking as a lover of nature, I can't think that the fragile natural balance man all to often interferes with, to the detriment of his own progression, that this would be unwelcome.

The essential trivial nature of the above politicking is awful.
50

Silver Shred,

in the jamjar 21/12/2007 01:28:46
Canadian Jambo - what a wag!

"Alex is still a tartan tory. Too bad. What a chance to have Scotland developed by people who have an interest in her other than pure commercialism."

I mean look at this entry in the Parliament's Register of Interest, when it comes to property development,

"Braehead CSC Retail (£200), Capital Shopping Centres UK Property Group (£300), Abbotsinch Properties (£300)"

Bang to rights, Oh, wait a minute - that's WENDY ALEXANDER's Register of Interests - donations from the property developers whose out-of-town developments have ripped the guts out of the High Street in the heart of her constituency.
Wendy's a past-mistress at hob-nobbing with off-shore property tycoons, as her recent difficulty illustrates.

How come this "article" fails to lead on the absolute destruction of Nicol the Non-entity at FMQs?

51

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:28:52
48
Let me check.

What have you got in your pocketses?
52

,

21/12/2007 01:30:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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53

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:31:24
Pockets? just how wealthy do you think we are?
54

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 21/12/2007 01:35:52
Ah well time for bed, these unionists aren't fun any more
55

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 01:37:14
53
Ochone.ochone.(tolkien)ring...me.
56

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 01:53:31
49, 55

I'm deeply impressed by your staying power today, unless you hadf a nap at drive time...
57

,

21/12/2007 02:05:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
58

Ian MacBeth,

21/12/2007 02:12:14
Hamish, you're article seems to have been misplaces, shouldn't it have been in the comedy section.

It seems the head of the civil service in Scotland is happy with the proceedures followed by all concerned. You and all the other anti-Scottish unionists have to 'get over the fact that we now have an SNP government. It was the will of the people, so don't act as if the people are wrong and only you are right. It's called democracy, so show some respect to the Scottish people.

Here's a copy of a letter written by the head of the civil service in Scotland, Sir John Elvidge, who by the way happens to be an Englishman. Note the unbiased assessment.


'Dear John,

As you know, there has been an unusual degree of parliamentary and public interest in the activities of civil servants involved in the handling of the planning application made by the Trump Organisation for a resort development at the Menie estate. Some of this interest has carried with it an implication that members of my staff have, in some way, acted improperly.

As a result, I have felt it necessary to consider the way in which this case has been handled, to enable me to have confidence that there has been no impropriety. I have considered the behaviour of the civil servants involved and am satisfied that they have fully met the standards of propriety expected of them.

I have also received unambiguous confirmation from the Chief Planner that he has, at no time, been instructed by any party to act improperly. He has also made it absolutely clear to me that he feels he has applied the same rigour in this particular case, in terms of following due process and having regard to the expected standards of conduct, as he would do in any other planning case.

Yours sincerely,

John Elvidge'


Hamish,instead of writing a whole lot of twisted garbage why don't you instead write the facts as they become known. That way you might someday be looked upon as a journalist.
59

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 02:12:35
I just re-read the article. Alex is questioned about the powers of a "constituency MSP"; he is actually the Westminster MOP for Banff & Buchan. Woops - most of these questions are based on factual, published ignorance.
60

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 02:13:10
Westminster MP, that should have read.
61

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 02:13:34
The real burning question in politics:

In a pie eating contest (sponsored by Labour Bakeries out of public money) - between Wendy Alexander and Jackie Baillie who would win?

It's true the latter has by far the bigger belly but consider the size of Wendy's geggy - it's like a pelican's, she could store a dozen in there surely.



62

b h,

dornoch 21/12/2007 02:15:05
To the Scotsman: how are sales?

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
unless, of course, the name of the horse is the famous English Voice.
63

Edward,

21/12/2007 02:16:35
This paper should be found in the comic section in the newsagents. With articles like this, its pure fiction!
When will it get serious and start investigating the Scottish Labour Party, or is that to much like real journalism, where as they acn simply and cheaply rely on Labour providing their copy!
64

BrianHill,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 02:18:12
So much of this story is old news, apart from the questions at the end, easily answered. The judicial Inquiry has gone and been replaced by a relatively harmless Holyrood Committee.

Where is the story? Perhaps a bigger story is the fact that the Barclay brothers are such staunch Unionists they are happy to destroy a once fine newspaper by instructing its editors to produce anti SNP/Scottish pap on a daily basis.
65

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 02:23:52
Obviously the Scotsman "journalists" live in some bizarre world where everything is the complete opposite of reality.

Nobody who watched or listened to FMQ's could possibly form any other opinion other than Alex Salmond wiped the floor with that ragbag of oddballs and misfits which laughingly calls itself an Opposition.

Unless you inhabit Scotsmanworld of course in which case Salmond suffered a "new blow".

66

,

21/12/2007 02:24:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
67

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 02:25:54
#66

alternatively "Hootsmon Blows Labour"
68

I'm Not a Madam, I'm A Concierge!,

Rutherglen 21/12/2007 02:31:32
Fresh Blow To Opposition:

Bridge Toll Abolition passed Thursday as per manifesto

Graduate Charge dumped Thursday as per manifesto

More broken promises? LOL
69

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 02:37:38
64 The Barclay brothers sold the EEN and Scotsman to Johnston Press Holdings more than two years ago.
70

Buchanan,

Los Altos Hills 21/12/2007 02:39:26
Alex Salmond Wipes Floor With Nicol Stephens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2c4rDJ9A4

71

walter,

21/12/2007 02:46:21
Now we know that where in the past the system was the developer submitted a planning application to the council and then they passed it onto the planning committee to scrutinise and either accept or reject.
If rejected the developer could negotiate with the council on the areas that it was rejected on or appeal the decision.
Why did the SNP not just say in the first place that the system had been altered and that the appeal system had been scrapped.
If a council rejects an application and the developer does not wish to negotiate with the council all they have to do is make a threat then have a meeting with the local MSP who can call the government chief planner directly bypassing the planning directorate and have the application called in all with in 24 hour.
I am sure that MSPs and developers up and down the country are jumping with joy that they no longer have to go through the tedious appeal system and that this way is a lot better.
I take it that this system is open to every MSP and developer and not just Salmond Trump or developer who wish to build in Salmond constituency.
72

Saltireblue,

The Blue Yonder 21/12/2007 02:54:34
Come on 'Scotsman', this article is rubbish; a lot of 'Trumped' up (pun intended) waste trying to masquerade as news journalism.

You used to be a better newspaper than this.

You could report on other issues. There is no need to apply 'meat extender' to old stories that the majority of Scots have already made their mind up on.
73

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 03:01:22
71

You are partially correct. The Scottish Executive/Government may "call in" at any time any planning application it deems to be of overriding national importance. End of story.
74

,

21/12/2007 03:17:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
75

walter,

21/12/2007 03:20:20
#73
Do you have an example of a call in and who was involved and the time scale.
76

John Blackley,

Austin, TX 21/12/2007 03:23:32
Okay, even as one who disdains the Snippers and all they stand for, I'm puzzled by this one.

Now what is it Salmond's suffered a "fresh blow" over? I've read the article and I'm not seeing it.
77

Incandescent,

21/12/2007 03:24:56
75 - Walter

Not going to do the digging - try this:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2006/asp_20060017_en_1
78

redcliffe62,

21/12/2007 03:46:26
i advised previously i would not be posting in future.
as a one off on this article that bears no relation to reality.

when the record is more balanced politically than the scotsman, relatively speaking, then the scotsman has lost all credibility.

the silence on anything anti labour, scottish or british, which needs to be discussed is deafening.
very sad how this paper i bought for 25 years has gone downhill.
although the sport sections are as good as ever, that is not enough to make me read the opening pages of political diatribe in each issue.

surely the journalists have integrity. an dnot merley collecting apaycheque for regurgitating drivel.

61# raises the key issue, who could eat more pies.
i have to say that an outsider, a guy called salmond would win, with baillie a close second and alexander a distant third.

somebody said the scotsman is to unionism what fox news is to the republicans in amercia; fair and balanced my erse.

79

Royster,

21/12/2007 03:49:09
Quite funny to see the SNP supporters blame the Scotsman as soon as anything negative about Salmond crops up. It just shows how cult-like the SNP is.
80

walter,

21/12/2007 03:57:07
#77
I had a swatch through that link and I could not find anywhere in it saying that a MSP can meet with developers call the government chief planner direct and the then the developer meet with the planner and the decision to call in the application and all with in a 24 hour period of the meeting.
81

Yokel,

Home 21/12/2007 05:02:17
Been away for a wee while. The Hootsmon aren't still trying to make a story out of this are they? How is Wendy doing these days?
82

Auckland Arab2,

21/12/2007 05:09:56
Allegedly, it emerged, a spokesman said, it was reported, blah blah blah!

Read my lips, this is not a story. It is nothing less than an open attack on the Scottish Govt using any tactic, any ploy, any amount of lies, deceit, cover ups, bungs, dodgy foreign donations, etc. Its tragic and pathetic that a "newspaper" is prepared to stoop so low in its attempt to bring the SNP down to the gutter level of their paymasters, Brown & Alexander. Well sorry it wont work - Brown, Alexander and New Labour are bent and rotten to the core. The SNP Govt (all of 7 months old) may not be perfect but at least it has some integrity. Not a word that sits well with The Hootsmon comic publications.
83

Fat Freddy,

21/12/2007 05:48:08
Smoke, fire, etc.
84

Talorthane,

21/12/2007 05:51:25
I watched First Minister's Questions yesterday, andfind the headlineandstory here to bebewildering.

Yet again, Wendy Alexander asked thesamequestion repeatedly.

Yet again, Alex Salmond answered comprehensively, more than once.

Yet again, Wendy Alexander behaved as if she had not heard or not understood what Alex Salmond had said.

With this continued level of journalism and editorial control, as displayed by the Scotsman, I predict that sales will suffer, especially now that the Scottish Daily Express is prepared to give support to the SNP.
85

THE HARRYLAUDER,

Scotlandshire edition 21/12/2007 06:37:43
FRESH BLOW FOR SALMOND OVER TRUMP AFFAIR

Yesterdays First Minister’s Questions promised to be a lively debate, and ‘The HarryLauder’ can report that it didn’t disappoint. Fresh from his bruising at the hands of Nicol Stephen last week Alex Salmond was about to begin round two.

First up was Wendy Alexander, fresh from her recent minor administrative error involving donations, she quickly set about Salmond with a question regarding the First Ministers dealings with the head of planning. Salmond desperately resorted to brandishing evidence in the form of an official letter from the Sir John Elvidge that completely exonorated the First Minister of wrong doing. Wendy had no such back up in the form of evidence to support her allegations and demonstrated remarkable fortitude in ignoring this stunt by Salmond, pressing him further.

It wasn’t about to get better for the First minister either when ‘Aunty’ Annabelle went for the jugular by calling Salmond ignorant. Goldie could have added smug, arrogant, fat, self important, liar, sleaze merchant, hatefull Nat to the list, however our Anabelle is only too aware that Unionists don’t need to descend to this level of name calling.

Salmond’s reply, listing the many policies already implemented that will benefit not only Scottish businesses but Scots as a whole was lacklustre, he was rattled.

Nicol Stephen was next for a struggling and defensive Salmond clearly flagging under the pressure of ‘sleazy trumpgate lies’. However Stephen demonstrated a hitherto unknown charitable side by refusing to hit Salmond when he was down. Rather than attempting to score cheap political points Nicol sought to get reassurances from the First Minister that life saving treatment will be available to sick children.

However this only served to allow Salmond to launch a tirade of abuse on a politician who had only the wellbeing of sick children in mind. That Salmond’s attack contained incontrevertible facts detailing real Libera
86

THE HARRYLAUDER,

Scotlandshire 21/12/2007 06:40:58
...........l sleaze does not justify ignoring the plight of the ill and the weak.

Stephen commented afterwards “I have been reading A Christmas Carol and the thought of Tiny Tim suffering this Christmas compelled me to beg the First Minister to help, the foul mouthed rant that followed smelled of sleaze, law breaking and lies; I suspect that Salmond is Jacob Marley”

The HarryLauder can reveal that despite the letter from Sir John Elvidge clearing the SNP government of any misconduct that many people still believe that Salmond is guilty of all of the allegations. A recent survey carried out by The HarryLauder demonstrates clearly that the owners of The HarryLauder believe that Salmond is guilty. SNP supporters claim that there is no evidence to justify these allegations, however extensive research carried out by The HarryLauder can reveal that the vast number of HarryLauder articles have been supportive of the Unionist MSP’s and their allegations.

This is the scandal that won’t go away and to prove it we will be printing variations of it for the foreseeable future.

In keeping with The HarryLauder's lack of objectivity we have not asked any corrupt SNP ministers to comment.
87

ruralboy,

I know where I am 21/12/2007 07:07:51
Look, the man with the name on this piece is not the only one to blame. Some senior subs will be involved as well - however to my eyes at least three clauses of the NUJ's code of conduct have been breached. (http://www.nuj.org.uk/innerPagenuj.html?docid=174)
But then again - Johnston Press - NUJ? I didn't think so...
88

PDdod,

peterhead 21/12/2007 07:09:09
Salmond's roaring rant in the chamber yesterday clearly indicated he had lost the plot and the heid -Only months in office and steeped in controversy - What will it be like three years from now
89

UrbanFox,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 07:10:06
Good article. Salmond's role in the Trump affair has an unpleasant smell and the SNP are running scared. You can tell, they sit up all night typing on this BB. Sad.
90

spiderman,

Argyll 21/12/2007 07:11:55
This story is a travesty of the truth. Salmond has done his job competently and correctly. The opposition, plus this newspaper, have gone off half-cocked on a non-issue, have made themselves and the country look stupid and will pay the price in future as the public show their increasing disdain for them, their incompetence and stupidity.
91

steve 1511,

aberdeen 21/12/2007 07:14:57
has this paper been taken over by reporters from the daily star the sun or the daily sport,tomorrows headline will be, santa hides on the moon when not a work,you cannot make it up but the hootsman reporters can
92

M.T.,

21/12/2007 07:19:42
This proposal from the Trump organisation may or may not benefit Scotland.
The decision by Aberdeenshire Council was so close that I would have been disappointed in the leadership of the Scottish Parliament if the opportunity was lost due to a lack of discussion of the project from them
93

donald,

glasgow 21/12/2007 07:23:33
Savaged by dead sheep
94

Bridged and tunnelled,

21/12/2007 07:26:59
When the dear leader can demonstrate which other constituency MSP, in this parliament or either of the earlier ones, can phone the Chief Planner, get through directly, and have a meeting arranged the following day, I will believe nothing untoward has been going on.

Oddly enough, I think the Trunp thing should have been called in, but the manner of it happening stinks.
95

,

21/12/2007 07:30:58
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96

overton,

Balmedie 21/12/2007 07:34:01
Who are The Ramblers Association?
We certainly don't want these morons walking over our dunes - they can do what everyone else does, is entitled to, will continue to be entitled to, and that is walk up the beach so when they discover the location they will know the drill.

Nicol Stephen is indeed unelectable in Aberdeen.
He will have to move to somewhere else - preferably back to Mars and he must take his alien party with him.

If there is room in his return craft the entire Staff of The Scotsman must go back with him as well because they too are Martians and we here in Scotland are sick of their infiltration into our society and their negative, morale sapping reporting.
97

Che Guevera,

Balmedie 21/12/2007 07:38:53
How typical of this anti SNP newspaper.
How hypocritical of Wendy A.
As for McLetchie and Stephen well words for them are unprintable...!!
Cheap very cheap points scoring.
The question : DID SNP do the correct thing for the people of Aberdeen, Shire and Scotland ?
Ofcourse they did.....End of discussion!!
98

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 07:54:32
Has anybody writing in this column ( or the Labour Party )ever read the "Code of Conduct".
As a constituency MSP Alex Salmond can do just about anything that he wants regarding the Trump Application.
As FM he cannot either support or oppose it in public.
99

Chris Stephenson,

Highland 21/12/2007 07:57:09
There is no harm in a local MSP, and First Minister, ensuring that all doors are left open to the Trump offer.

Salmond is doing the correct thing.

Labour are only looking to get revenge for their own past failings.

Why does the Scotsman encourage this non story?
100

Sgritheall,

Europe 21/12/2007 07:57:09
What fun. Now that Mr Salmond is beginning to look what he is - a politician - and not the BIG GREAT SAVIOUR, some people can hardly contain their rage. Some schmock even accused the Scotsman of writing like the Pravda. It's the other way round, dearie: in the good old Soviet union it was not allowed to criticize the dear leader. And obviously some people in Scotland are heading in the same direction. If that is what they mean with indepencende, good night everybody.
101

thomas ferguson,

21/12/2007 08:12:52
you can just see smug face salmond saying to trumps mob "do not worry i alone will get you planning permission"a big headed ego hunter salmond.
102

Stephen101,

Tell us about Wendy please 21/12/2007 08:14:24
The Scotsman inventing these 'news' stories is getting annoying, especially when they put it under a Sun style shock-horror headline. Thank God I never buy the rag, would hate to think I would encourage the producers of this puerile claptrap.

But I do wish they would keep the Wendy pot boiling. That is where the real story is. Money laundering to keep the truth away from the authorities and the public. Money for favours. And the guilty ones are such unlikable characters. Would you choose to socialise with big Jackie, Whitton, Gordon, Mccabe, or even big mouth/big brain Wendi? Ugggh they are a creepy lot.

So come on Scotsman, give us the low down, the truth, the evidence to get convictions. Doorstep them, hound them, shove cameras in their faces every time they move. You can do it for neighbours having a fight over their hedges, so why not do it with this mob of chancers?

So come on, do your profession proud. Get on the case. There are lots of real stories there.

103

Rod5577,

Glasgow 21/12/2007 08:16:21
I'm surprised that this enlightened newspaper did not pick up on the fact that Alex Salmond was sitting next to a property developer at the Aberdeen football match yesterday evening. You would think in the current climate he would be more careful who he sits beside and you would have thought an investigative journalist would have tried to make capital of this in line with the rest of the tripe in this "balanced" article.
104

Scotland to prosper...,

21/12/2007 08:23:09
It becomes incredibly obvious just how tightly the unionist parties are clutching at their straws when the level of questioning includes:

“If he offered you a membership of this golf course, would you take it?”

To go this low in order to maintain an already feeble attack on the FM is embarrassing for Scottish politics. Do the amateurs in Lab/Lib/Tories really think they have gone down the correct route of questioning every stage of securing the Trump project rather than supporting it?

The comparative lack of coverage regarding Wendygate is, by all accounts, dismal and does nothing but fuel the belief that the Scottish media are bias.

Scotland has been given an opportunity to welcome an internationally respected businessman to invest in their nation and all the unionist parties can do is band together and throw muck at the whole process…..shameful, utterly shameful
105

,

21/12/2007 08:26:17
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106

Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 08:27:19
If you were unemployed in Aberdeenshire - or on the bare minimum wage - I doubt if the slanderous suggestion of "sleaze" would even begin to form on your lips.Look , whatever the twists and turns of this story , Alex Salmond is doing his damnest to attract new industry to his country. I wouldn't want to see local opposition bulldozed into heavy-handed submission , but if Trumsville isn't to happen , I can think of one region of Scotland that would bend over backwards to have it - the beautiful Scottish Borders , already a prime golf destination. I'm sure David Parker at SBC headquarters in Newtown St Boswells would put his Christmas turkey on hold if the call through.
107

Stephen101,

Where next for Nichol? 21/12/2007 08:30:25
When this Trump business blows over what will happen to Stephen Nichol? Back to being totally anonymous, inconsequential and irrelevant?

The only thing I am know about him is he was 'at it with the Edinburgh house allowance.

Please people of Aberdeen, at the next election can you make sure he does become a complete and total irrelevance?
108

Ken,

21/12/2007 08:35:51
I thought Alex had a stormer of a question time yesterday. To see Nicol sitting there, looking like a lost boy, taking some facts about him, was great.
It was interesting that the first meeting was McConnell and Nicol back in January! Why does this rag not comment on this!
Scotsman reporters, can you explain how Alex 'However, Mr Salmond was knocked off course after revealing he met Trump representatives on 3 December' could be Knocked off course by HIM revealing this information!!
109

,

21/12/2007 08:36:06
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110

Linda,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 08:36:34
Totally biased report from Scotsman. Why do we not have 10 questions Nicol Stephens should answer regarding his false acuusations of sleaze at heart of government and civil service?
111

JayJay,

Right here 21/12/2007 08:39:15
I said it yesterday, I'll say it again. This is not a story. The notion that you can continue to say something then, by some magical process it comes true, left most of us just prior to puberty. Alas not in the Editors chair of this newspaper.
Even if Alex Salmond was up to his hairy armpits in arm-twisting, cajoling, facilitating, smoothing the path etc etc it is exactly what any reasonable person would expect him to do. The handling of this whole issue has been a major embarrassment from the start, and someone has to grasp the nettle and at least make it look as though we give a hoo-ha about a giant investment into Scotland. The unholy alliance of opposition parties ALL support this development, so why on earth are they heaping further ridicule on the country by seeing procedural wrongdoing - as I say, even if that is the case, so what?
I shall write Wendy's script for her. Trump will shift this to Northern Ireland, where there will be political concensus on the deal and it will be shoo'd in early in 2008. Meanwhile Wendy will stand up at FMQ and blame it all on Salmond's intervention.
Wendy, Jackie and your crew, what I feel about you generally, and on this issue specifically, can never be said on message boards such as these. But you are not fit to run the Labour Party, your own actions of late are lamentable, and you continue, on a daily basis, to alienate more of your traditional voters. Now grow up and start acting for OUR interests rather than smokescreening away in the mistaken assumption we have all forgotten about £950 donations.
112

Alex,

Ayr 21/12/2007 08:39:51
Whats so galling about the whole affair is the hyrpocricy of the unionist rabble who support the development on the one hand and try pathetically to stab Salmond in the back with the other using half baked innuendo.

Stephen and the Libs will suffer badly at the next election .
113

,

21/12/2007 08:42:13
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114

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 08:44:54
Panic setting in as it all unfurls, the desperation here to pin some labour like sleaze onto the First Minister is blatant. I hope this is wrapped up quickly so the SNP can get back to sorting out the shambles left by labour.

He must also ensure that the investigations into LABOUR corruption are not hampered or obstructed by London. The Scottish wing of London controlled Labour
have shown themselves to be corrupt to the core, HQ must not be allowed to prevent justice being served.

I would also like the SNP to demand that London controlled Labour drop the word Scottish from their
propoganda. There is no such thing as the Scottish Labour Party. It is The Labour Party.Scottish wing
would be more accurate but while they continue to take their orders from London they are the Labour Party. Nothing Scottish about them.
115

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 08:47:07
Has McCONel (Remember that) been interviewed/persecuted/ hounded and defamed over his meetings with Mr Trump?. Thought not, what a dreadful bunch of hypocrites Labour , and their media hacks are
116

Farmernot,

oan ma muckspreader 21/12/2007 08:47:13
#70 & 84 I have to agree .....Eck really got stuck in tae the Mooth and Nicol the Hoose Buyer yesterday and left them both with runny egg all over their faces......it was better that watching Tom and Jerry
117

James,

Dundee 21/12/2007 08:52:01
#88 PQuod,

If Alex Fergusson was the judgin a boxing contest, he would have waded in, but like the rest of the real world he enjoyed the Whig Jester getting a dressing down.

As Brian Taylor opined, Salmond came prepared and Stephen was gonna get it no matter if he'd simply asked Alex for the time.

Looking behind Stevie the rest of the LibDums were almost smirking - especially wor Micky Rumbles.

Yessir Nicols days are numbered.
118

Feenon,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 08:53:51
What

about

Wendy??????????????

This is like Scottish Government Panto with The Hootsmon shouting 'He's behind you' with Little Wend Winding Hood simpering at the audience...

Maybe she's heading for Jersey for Christmas, eh?
119

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 21/12/2007 08:54:04
Once again the SNP can dish out unfounded smears and allegations but can't handle it when their own activities come under scrutiny.

I also can't understand why if they are so against the Scotsman coverage they bother visiting this website why don’t they go and visit a paper that just promotes the views of the SNP. It will be no loss to this web site as their inability to have a grown up debate was shown during their absence on the 30th November boycott, when the quality of the posts on this site increased
120

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 21/12/2007 08:57:58
116 Number 6,Germany

Boy you have been in the village far to long and are suffering for severe paranoia.

Its amazing how when Labour are under investigation they are corrupt but SNP when under investigation are innocent. Yet again more blinkered, biased and racist views from a SNP supporter
121

Angus Ogg,

Argyll 21/12/2007 09:02:46
As a floating voter I watched First Ministers Questions, and with all due respect to The Scotsman, the newspaper story does seem a little bias, and really hasn't captured what actually took place in the Chamber yesterday.

What came across was that Alex Salmond conducted himself well, and in a manner that would make me vote for him again. Wendy Alexander is clearly trying to throw stones from her glass green house to save her job. Dame Annabel, as always gives a great act, not quite pantomime, but worth a watch. Poor old Nicol Stephen was brought to book - will he give questionably lawful LibDem £2,400,000 donation back (was it really that much)?

All in all, and this is the bit that may count, literally in the long term, I am keeping my vote in the SNP camp as I suspect are many other of the new SNP swayed voters. As one of the Argyll electorate who helped dispatch LibDem George Lyon to the political wilderness and voted in SNP Jim Mathers, Wendy, Annabel and Nicol are going to have to raise their game a lot more to recapture voters going across to the SNP. Alex is head and shoulders above the rest.

Keep up the good work Alex Salmond.

Methinks the SNP won Argyll last time, and Nicol Stephen up in Aberdeenshire is next to go the way of George Lyon? After his abysmal performance all round, it will be a very interesting election next time at Holyrood.
122

Chic Young,

Paisley 21/12/2007 09:03:04
Ho Ho Ho - 122 whit a clown!

Se that Jackie Bailey, whit a stoatir!

#122 er, you havent have you?
123

Paul Voltaire,

21/12/2007 09:03:18
I have never seen Mr Salmond so rattled as he has been over the last two weeks.
Methinks a nerve has been hit.
124

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 21/12/2007 09:09:14
#121 they like a fight, although their conduct on here always makes me think of thugs that get so intae it they jump up and down on the corpse long after the unfortunate has died. "Never mind what he gets up to! Alec has more testosterone than Nicol! Rah rah rah! Down with the weak! Attack in a pack!"
125

McMillar,

Fife 21/12/2007 09:09:41
What is wrong with the Scotsman? The bias isn’t even subtle these days…Whatever is driving this it’s clear that the good of Scotland is not really high on the priority list for opposition parties or our national paper. There are so many other issues that should attract this level of focus.
126

Mike S,

21/12/2007 09:10:57
Plus ca change, n'est pas?
127

Gtj,

Dundee 21/12/2007 09:12:23
The attempts of the website to string this non story out are actually laughable verging on becoming embarrassing.

God knows what they will be like if they get a real story.
128

Ricardo,

methil 21/12/2007 09:13:59
Jersey for Christmas... lol ,,, Indeed Feenon ...Its where all these Tax Avoiding Nu Labour Philanthropists go to Practice ... Tax Avoidance.

129

François_Marie Arouet ,

France 21/12/2007 09:14:25
#125 What I saw was controlled anger - it'll be a bad day for Scotland if wee Nicol ever gets Alex Salmond 'rattled'.

More like Nicol was bit by a rattler!
130

thinking,

Scotland 21/12/2007 09:15:32
Time and time again, on many articles, many of you knock the Scotsman as a newspaper.
If you dislike it so much, why do you keep reading it?

As for the First Minister, I'm no fan of his but, if he did what any constituent MSP can do then that is OK. The 'but' comes if what he did was only possible because he is First Minister.
I, for one, don't know enough about procedures to say positively one way or another. However, I would have thought it unlikely that an MSP would normally have such a fast track as the First Minister says he has done as an MSP
131

Nikostratos,

21/12/2007 09:19:21
one blow after another the culminating effect is to expose the First Minister as a selfseeking untrustworthy politician. And as for using civil servants as a shield to hide behind..Disgraceful .
but to be expected the mans a coward..

And what about Rosyth why has there been no interest shown by the Scottish Government..£1.2 billion pound s of investment

#126 clarry

That's the frightening thing about you 'Nationalists' your willingness to disregard minority's in your 'Claim' of whats best for the rest...
132

Ricardo,

methil 21/12/2007 09:20:11
I should add... This is one piece of Disgraceful ' Journalism' by "The Hootsman"
133

Grant,

Scotland 21/12/2007 09:20:21
Am I missing something here?

Salmond telephoned the Chief Planner to check whether he could meet the Trump organisation representatives - he didn't "organise" anything.



134

psycho,

edinburgh 21/12/2007 09:20:25
This paper is now a tawdry tabloid...how are the circulation figures dipping this week as the more restrained Herald (ie in terms of Labour/Unionist allegiance) makes gains
135

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 09:22:08
"#17 Incandescent,21/12/2007 00:59:58

Let's clear up one thing: as the MP for Buchan, it is Alex Salmond's JOB to facilitate inward investment that will benefit his constituents. As First Minister of Scotland, he should remain impartial. Therefore, legally, and until the law is changed, he is perfectly legal to do this with his MP hat on. End of smear story."

I have NEVER believed in this notion that somehow a minister can seemlessly switch from being an MP/MSP to a minister and back again. A minister will always have access to facilities, resources and contacts that an ordinary MP/MSP never has.

Someone may correct me if I am wrong but I do remember a certain T Blair facing a similar accusation of breaking the Minsterial Code of Conduct that he himself had created.

The reality is that a written code of conduct cannot cover all eventualities and situations - the reason being that there is not a clear distinction between acting as a minister and acting as a constituency MP/MSP.

How that problem can ever be overcome remains a dilemma for all our politicians.
136

Ricardo,

methil 21/12/2007 09:27:59
How Ecky slapped down Nicol the wayward child and how the Hootsman reported it http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2c4rDJ9A4
137

François_Marie Arouet ,

France 21/12/2007 09:28:10
This whole issue is about 'Chinese Walls' - maybe AS should wear a green suit when representing his constituency and a red one when FM.

Problem: wee Nicol is colour blind.
138

gus1940,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 09:31:01
Is it possible that the continuous stream of ridiculously biased stories, lies and distortions being perpetrated by The Scotsman is a cunning plan (Baldrick Style) to increase the circulation.

The idea being that the more ridiculous and biased the content of the paper the more people will see it as being comical and will start to buy it as a substitute for The Dandy and The Beano.
139

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 09:33:29
Is Alex Salmond First Minister? Or is he a message boy for Donald Trump?
Oh and No 142, we do not live in a one party state, and therofe do not confuse bias with examining an interesting story.
140

Logie Almond,

21/12/2007 09:34:24
Great to see the Nat posters on this site squirming as Salmond tries to wriggle out of his shocking abuse of his position.
141

Allan (Glasgow),

21/12/2007 09:34:59
Hamish,

For goodness sake you are really scraping the barrel with this. It's a non-event. Can you please report on some decent stories?
142

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 09:36:26
124 Chic Young
131 clarry

Your responses just prove my points that the majority of posts from the SNP are mere ranting and few of them know how to have a constructive debate.

Wee Eck has got himself into bother over this one by allowing himself to give the appearance of being in Trump's pocket. In politics, the public trust is everything and before the opposition got involved the smell of sleeze had started to permeate the Wee Eck and Co (After all they have broken promises like other political parties to get elected so why should they be corrupt).

Through the SNP supportors eagerness to tar opposition politicians and political parties with the corruption label they have helped to educate the public into thinking ALL POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT and should hardly be surprised when this rebounds onto their political party. Once you start to undermine institution don’t be surprised when some of the debris lands on you.
143

Lianachan,

Highlands 21/12/2007 09:37:07
So........ the First Minister doesn't let the role stop him being a good MP/MSP. THat's what this boils down to.

I'd rather know why Wendygate has gone quiet. Has the crook got away with it, like her sourhern cronies seem to have?
144

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 09:37:57
"#126 clarry,balmedie 21/12/2007 09:06:38
This story stinks.
We just want our development 400,000 in favour - 200 against. I still feel physically sick at what has happened. It is disgraceful."

And you'll scweam and you'll scweam until you get it . . .

Clarry the problem with pro-development people like you (unlike some other pro-development people) is that you think you can just ride roughshod over any minority who may disagree with your position. That is extremely dangerous in my opinion w ehave already seen the witch-hunt on Martin Ford and I suspect the same will happen to Nicol Stephen - the bully-boy mentality of some Nat supporters is on par with that found in the depths of Lanarkshire Labour Mafia.

Sorry but process is important - if the process is not seen to be fair or in fact is not fair then quite clearly a precedent is set for the next bully-boy to stamp their feet when they are not getting their own way.

145

François_Marie Arouet ,

France 21/12/2007 09:39:24
#125 What I saw was controlled anger - it'll be a bad day for Scotland if wee Nicol ever gets Alex Salmond 'rattled'.

More like Nicol was bit by a rattler!
146

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 09:40:12
#122 Jinks Crivens help ma boab. The SNP are under investigation , suspected of what exactly???. Has the senior civil servant Sir John Elvidge not already stated that there has been no wrong doing. Don't you believe him ,are you following the Republican mantra of "An Abscence of evidence does not mean evidence of abscence?. What? what ? what ? are you accusing Salmond of ?. Now, contrast that with the mountains of evidence now being investigated by the POLICE INTO LABOUR CORRUPTION. Usual stuff of course, illegal payments, over turning planning laws, preferential contracts etc etc Cash for honours etc etc, non tendering of Goverment contracts, etc etc etc.
The difference is chalk and cheese.God how stupid these accusers are going to look once Alex is finished with them.

Why no fuss over McConnel meeting Trump ? Can't you see how pathetic and weak the detractors appear in this farce?. Using Hilary Clinton like tactics show just how low and clueless labour are.
147

LKK252,

21/12/2007 09:42:10
Can I ask why those who are questioning the "bias" of The Scotsman are continuing to read this paper?
148

Steve,

Bo'ness 21/12/2007 09:44:45
Must admit I was startled by the screaming negative headlines this morning, but not to worry, STILL NOT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE against Salmond, McCaskill or anyone else for that matter. (what was I thinking?)

They appear to have acteded wholly apropriately at every turn. It must be really infuriating for the unionists after pinning so much hope on this "story", and they seem to think repeating it loudly will make it stick. It wont, and will surely come back to haunt them in due course. Meanwhile the shameless Wendy Alexander debacle is still to be investigated, something to look forward to.
149

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 09:47:30
148 Would you concede that the local population and business community were overwhelmingly in favour of this development. Have you seen one, just one poll where the No's were not obliterated by the Yes's ?

What I see IS democracy in action, the petty decisions of a few , washed away by the overwhelming wishes of the majority. Was the man who made this decision not released from his post?.I take it that was not a SNP decision, was it.

I fail to see what the protests are about. The will of the people has been heard. Incidentally, do you see any signs of corrupt practises in this affair?
150

Queen D,

Glasgow 21/12/2007 09:52:28
LKK252,Because the Scottish media is flogging dead horse and ignoring a much more pertinent story in a rather obvious way!
And since that bias seems to cover the BBC and the newspapers some have taken it upon themselves to redress the balance1
151

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 09:53:55
"#121 Jings Crivens,Paisley 21/12/2007 08:54:04
Once again the SNP can dish out unfounded smears and allegations but can't handle it when their own activities come under scrutiny."

Have to agree - the word corrupt has been thrown about here on a regular basis by Nat posters. Fine if you have the evidence but they have accused some people (just because they happen to be a member of the Labour Party) of being corrupt when there is not a shred of evidence that that individual is. The danger of such a strategy is when it backfires and voters think that all politicians are sleazy and crooked - even the honest ones. Labour found that out the hard way after 1997 - they accused the Tories of being sleazy - yet some of their own people were just as sleazy as some of the Tories.

That doesn't mean that we should ignore sleaze - far from it - but we should be going after the real culprits and not just tarring everyone with the same brush. Equally if their is a perception of wrongdoing it should be investigated as thoroughly and as switfly as possible to ensure that those politicians who are clean keep their clean reputation.

I suppose that might be wishful thinking - in this age of spin and denial parties seem to be in a rut when it comes to these sorts of problems. I just wish that one of them would be damn sight more honest and up front - if they have made errors then for god's sake admit it and take the consequences (if any) and move on.
152

Tom R,

21/12/2007 09:54:10
This story is cementing the view of people in Scotland that the SNP acts in their best interests.

Few are fooled any longer that the any of the Unionist triumvirate are anything other than the slaves of their London parties. Future polls will show a continuing lead for this effective SNP government. This "sleaze" invention will damage the unionists, not the SNP.
153

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 21/12/2007 09:54:47
The only reasonable explanation for this drivel is MACDONELL is touting for a job with the Daily Retard.

Something for your paymasters to think about Hamish. Over the past few months unless you are quick of the mark its difficult to get a copy of the Herald or Sunday Herald at a couple of my local shops. I moaned at the shopkeeper- you have plenty Scotsman but no Heralds - reply sorry we have already increased our order but they all have been sold - we will have to get more

Not a scientific survey but interesting.

Hamish you are alienating readership in the NE with this trash.

Wee Eck is so popular here that we even choose to ignore his major character defect his allegiance to the Jammy £arts
154

Zambo,

21/12/2007 09:55:46
+197 million quid for every man, woman and child in Scotland, that's a scary lot of money to lose out on.
155

McMillar,

Fife 21/12/2007 09:56:32
LKK252 – It’s always entertaining even if shaking head when reading and amazed at how 1+1 can = 13. We are also now in a position to comment directly on what we think of the standard via this platform. That is a huge improvement as it moves from ‘broadcast’ to feedback.
156

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 09:58:06
154 clarry,balmedie 21

i apologise its just you tone and level of abuse is so typical of selected SNP supporters

I apologise its just you tone and level of abuse is so typical of selected SNP supporters

By the way, you should try reading the Broons it would teach you a lot about Scottish Values of fair play, fun, friendship, all inclusive community and courtesy
157

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 10:01:07
#153 So explain why the two SNP councillors who voted with Martin Ford in the tied vote then voted to kick him out as chair of the Aberdeenshire Infrastructure Services Committee?




158

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 10:01:22
Would the precious sensitive Labour voters above stop crying about the prescence of us nasty SNP thugs. We know you would rather live in your little labour bubble,attached at the hip to your LONDON masters,
well forget it, we will drag you back to face reality everytime you put your heads above the parapit and attempt to defend this appaling opposition.

This is not a game, the future of the country is at stake, but then again, I can't expect any of you to understand that. If you have any courage of your convictions between you, then you would welcome the chance to verbally spar with your political foes.

It's decades of "Just leave it alone" that has got our country into the state it's in. We the supporters of a free Scotland are determined it will never return under the Labour yoke, followed by complete political seperation .

If you cant bear to be apart from your LONDON comfort blanket then be afraid, be very afraid.
159

Corkhead,

Isle of Wight 21/12/2007 10:02:38
10. 'But didn't Salmond himself repeatedly say he was not involved in the planning process because that was "forbidden"? I do think he did.'

Then Salmond had no reason to have contact with Trump or his minions.
The fact that he did shows very bad judgement and as a result brought this fresh debacle on himself.

Jeff in exile


160

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 10:03:01
157 The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

I agree, if a politician stood up and said 'I got that wrong' they would certainly go up in estimation.

161

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 10:08:32
"#158 clarry,balmedie 21/12/2007 09:54:04
148 The Federalist


THE PROCESS WAS FOLLOWED, and is being followed."

A politician making a statement does not constitute accountability - that is the issue - you CLAIM the process was followed but how do you KNOW the process was followed.

"anti-developist! You had better get off your computer that is a development."

What? I support the devlopment in principle - you however seem to support it to the extent that anyone who stands in its way should be removed - if you hadn't noticed we do live in a democarcy. I might not agree with Martin Ford's stance but I will defend his right to make that stance.

"By your argument - you are the first person I have encounted who agrees with the Iraqi War."

Cannot for the life of me see what you are driving at here?
162

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:09:00
Errrr.... What a misleading headline! The First Minister utterly filleted the opposition parties yesterday.....

But there is a fundamental question: Do you or do you not want investment in Scotland? The Lib-Lab carping is based on lame smears, misguided opportunism and the nastiest of partisan politics.... and nothing more - what worries me is the damage this does to our future attempts to sell ourselves internationally. Who wants to invest in a country where supposedly sensible, senior politicians are going to drag your reputation through the mud?
163

Conway,

Port Seton 21/12/2007 10:11:32
Check out the press and journal for a viewpoint from those that live in the North East.
thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/
164

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 10:12:44
#166 Number 6,Germany 21/12/2007 10:01:22

"If you cant bear to be apart from your LONDON comfort blanket then be afraid, be very afraid."

Says he in his comfort blanket in Germany . . .
165

Vivas,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:14:53
Can I get a job with The Scotsman ? ... think I could generate these headlines at the drop of a hat - and much more cheaply.

SALMOND LEADERSHIP FACES CRISIS
...as the jaffa cakes run out for morning teabreak

SNP IN FINANCIAL IRREGULARITY STORM
...as the parliament vending machine gives back too much change for a packet of ready salted

"DUPLICITOUS" SALMOND IS EXPOSED
...still supporting Hearts despite attending Dons games at Pittodrie

etc etc blah blah blah
166

Mercutio,

FALKIRK 21/12/2007 10:16:49
Let's have a new Declaration of Arbroath and request that the FM be made Saint Eck. He could then have regular meetings with that clever nun Sister Wendy to discuss things like probity, humility et cetera.
167

Number 6,

Germany 21/12/2007 10:20:55
173# I think you know dam well what I am alluding to.
I was of course refering to Scottish Labour voters unquestioned support,
no matter how badly they have run the country, terrified at the thought of having to govern themselves, after all they could never survive
without London. This was shown to great effect by the incredible amount of decisions that were refered to London by the the McCONNnel Clan. "Please London , whit dae wae dae".Happily under Salmond, all decisions are being taken in Scotland by Scots for Scots.
168

conservative,

21/12/2007 10:27:06
#178, Number 6

What is even more alarming is the SNP supporters' unquestioning support for a single-issue numptie who will bend any rule, tell any untruth, go back on any promise to hang onto power. The large income he gets would of course have nothing to do with it. Ropll on the next election when the Labour backlash has died down and the SNP minority will go back to the bushes.
169

gus1940,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:27:25
As Goebells used to say 'If you tell a lie often enough and the lie is big enough people will eventually start to believe it' or something similar along these lines.

Incidentally - when did Johnston Press take over BBC Scotland News? I think we should be told.
170

Fat Freddy,

Down At Rachels House Eating Rhubard 21/12/2007 10:27:48
This is the most outrageous abuse of power that I have come across in many a year and I think that the chosen one should be transported to the tower where he will be incarcerated until such time that he comes to terms with and confesses his sins.
171

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 10:32:08
#179 You misunderstand what I am saying Clarry. I may not agree with Martin Ford's opinions but I will defend his right to state those opinions.

" . . . . Bias. No considering any other point of view. . . . Believing they are only right. Zealot. etc etc. . . . In other words a really nasty piece of work."

That is so ironic - you could equally be called a zealot with regards to how you push the development. But I won't - you are entitled to you opinion and as with Martin Ford I would defend your right to have that opinion as I would him.
172

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:33:11
Em, I'm not an MSP but I have Jim MacKinnon's phone number...I could call him to arrange a meeting, you don't have to be FM or abuse yourp osition to do this...this storey is becoming Scotland's shame...nothing's been done wrong, but we're disgracing ourselves by making such an issue about it...anyone would think the unionist parties are trying to do Scotland down...oh hang on, that's exactly what they do on a daily basis...
173

lac,

Ecosse 21/12/2007 10:38:35
Just let him build the bl*%dy thing. If we dont' like it then it can always be nationalised and made into a retirement community for Alex, Wendy and their colleagues.
174

BIG EYE,

Paisley 21/12/2007 10:40:01
Just followed conway 171 advice and it was a pleasure to read an unbaised report of yesterday's FMQ.

Suggest all Scotsman reporters do the same and hope some of this good practice rubs off.

Unbelievable that this non issue is still running but I am no longer objecting as it is clear that it is the Union that is now under threat here rather than AS and the SNP.

People saw through the Unionist press last May and all the scaremongering is now coming back to haunt them as no longer will the Scots be bullied into accepting second best!
175

SNP For Sale - All Multi-millionaires welcome,

21/12/2007 10:42:18
I see the Nat stormtroopers are out in force today defending the Dear Leader. The Tartan Taliban nutjobs who defend the indefensible. Like Bart Simpson they shout: "We didn't do it."

Only our guts tells us they did. They have always wanted this development and when they saw it going down the pan instead of sticking to the correct procedure they thought they would bend a few rules to make it easier.

Gus - you are right about Goebbels only the big lie is by the SNP who keep denying that they have done anything wrong.

Tell you what - I'll put a bet on with you - I bet my house that John Swinney supports the Trump application.

And I bet Alex Salmond told Trump's people he supports the application - but as it was only him and his constituency secretary I doubt they are ever going to admit that.
176

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 10:44:37
#165 Don't you even think they are slightly hypocritcal in their stance?
177

McTalk,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:47:56
Salmond certainly looked rattled yesterday in Parliament. His defence against accusations of impropriety now seems to be to just shout loudly "You behaved improperly yourself a few years ago!"
178

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 10:48:37
From all sides of the Chamber yesterday no party or speaker disagreed that the proposed development should NOT go ahead. So if the process was in anyway unlawful it should be cancelled. Was it unlawful? Sorry but from all accounts it was lawful.If the opposition parties are now only concerned about the dubious actions of any Minister I urge them to reconsider their own records.
1. New Labour/Scottish Labour Liars and warmongers. Dirty dealers and criminal offenders. Rank hypocrites. All proven. And Wendy next for a court appearance?
Scottish Conservatives/ Westminster Tories Eighteen years of fraud and imprisonments. Expenses and creative accountancy.
LibDems. (all over). Immediate decision makers! Three leaders in as many months. Ministerial wrongdoings, fines for improper election practices,selective amnesia on mortgeges, funded by illegal gains but wont return the loot.
Current Government in Scotland ? A clean sheet.
179

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 10:49:21
166. Another rant from another SNP nutjob.

And another rant from an SNP ex-pat who is totally disconnected from the economic realities of separation and only has his wistful daydreams of dew-covered mountains and glens festoned with saltires as the basis of his beliefs.

Don't forget that Salmond's incessant quest for a place in history will immediately cost Scotland 40,000 jobs in Glasgow alone from the loss of the Faslane bases and the end of the MOD-dependent shipyards on the Clyde.

And that is just the very beginning of the turmoil.

What currency to use? Staying with Sterling will force Scotland to be dependent on the Bank but now with no influence whatsoever in interest rates. And the ECB won't allow a newcomer to join the Euro for several years, at least, as a newly-independent Scotland has to show that it can follow its strict rules first. And as for a whole new currency??

Scotland having its own voice in the world? Well, SNP will take Scotland out of the 'Permanent Five' in the UN's governing Security Council to become just another
small country (112th place in size, 55th in GDP) with 0.5% of the total vote.

There'll be no place in G8 either so bang goes any say in global economic or trade policy.

No more place at the top of the WTO either.

It's own voice in Europe? Salmond wants to take Scotland out of the 'Big Four' and instead have it as 22nd in the EU rankings with a mere 1.3% of the vote (with more small countries joining all the time decreasing that vote further).

With 0.5% of the General Assembly vote and nothing in the Security Council, what influence in the world will Scotland have then?

With the EU running much economic policy, trade policy, immigration policy, environmental policy, agricultural policy etc, what say will a country with 1.3% of the vote have?

Is the picture becoming any clearer yet?
180

McMillar,

Fife 21/12/2007 10:51:39
It’s been said much time already as this story goes ‘back to the future’……..not about which party running! Jack McConnell was all over this (quite rightly) and now Salmond is doing what he can as FM to ensure successful inward investment. What amazes most if not all neutrals is the clear bias in reporting and the push by opposition parties to derail this. They are just having a go wherever they can. That to me is not what I want from any credible opposition. I’d rather they were focussing on additional benefits and opportunities etc…. Salmond seems to have done things very well and has taken a genuine leadership position which is quite refreshing in Scottish politics. Nicol Stephen on the other hand is just acting like a child and Wendy wasn’t even able to approach the topic for weeks as would prob blow up in her face……what is best for Scotland and the NE in particular? Development.
181

Linda,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 10:51:56
English Voice, as an independent nation Scotland will have 100% more say than it has at present.
182

Fat Freddy,

Now At Stephanies House Eating Rashers 21/12/2007 10:52:42
I want Salmond on a plate; chips and a side salad would also be nice.
183

Doh,

21/12/2007 10:52:52
#188

I agree with you the opposition should stop attacking Salmond on this - a warnign shot has been fired across hos bows - saying even the First Minister has to be accountable - and that should be end of story.

The real baddy in all this is Trump - he clearly feels he can dictate terms to our small country and we will put up with him - grateful for a few crumbs from his plate.

The NE does appear to be cap in hand.

Anyway time to move forward and rubberstamp this application.

Then we can hopefully develop some better planning rules for Trump to walk over next time.
184

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 10:54:48
Scandalous article! I don't know how much more of this drivel I can take from this utter rag.
185

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 10:56:45
#202 Meth

Just scroll past his cr@p without reading it. I do it all the time. He is a t w a t.
186

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 10:58:09
197 [contd] And as for the economic security that the SNP is all-but guaranteeing:

The UK is :

5th in the world by GDP per capita by consumption (comparing average living standards).

7th in the world by simple GDP per capita (higher than Germany, France, Italy, Japan....),

4th in the world by total GDP (still ahead of China and only beaten by the USA, Japan and Germany, countries with far larger populations),

6th in the world by total GDP (calculating in the cost of living)...

Yet Salmond will have you believe that HE can do better!
187

Riley Hamish,

Edina 21/12/2007 11:00:05

C'mon Scotsman...this whole "scandal" is a total put-up job to try and deflect attention from your Blessed Wendy...............do give it a rest.......there is NO-ONE out on the streets who believes that Salmond has done ANYTHING wrong, ...and I'm one of those who DOESN'T support the Trump investment !!!!
188

overton,

Balmedie 21/12/2007 11:00:08
P&J 21.12.07

SALMOND ATTACKS SLEAZE CLAIM MSP

08:50 - 21 December 2007



The bitter political war of words over Donald Trump's £1billion golf resort plan escalated yesterday as First Minister Alex Salmond branded Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen "unelectable".

Mr Salmond demanded he apologise to the people of the north-east, and Scotland's chief planning officer, over remarks he made about the controversial scheme.

Last night, the US billionaire's right hand man, George Sorial, added his voice to calls for Mr Stephen to say sorry.



But the Aberdeen South MSP maintained he would not apologise to anyone for questioning how the issue had been handled.

Scottish Labour leader Wendy Alexander accused Mr Salmond of misusing his position as Scotland's leader and questioned how members of the Trump Organisation could secure a meeting with the Scottish Government's chief planner, Jim Mackinnon, within 12 hours of meeting him in an Aberdeen hotel on December 3.

Mr Salmond, MSP for Gordon, went on the offensive as he revealed that John Elvidge, the country's top civil servant, had cleared ministers and officials of any wrongdoing during the days leading up to Mr Trump's planning application being called in on December 4.

Mr Sorial, the tycoon's official spokesman, said he found Mr Stephen's remark that the Scottish Government's handling of the affair "smelled of sleaze" extremely offensive, and urged him to retract it because he had no evidence.

He agreed with Mr Salmond that Mr Stephen must also apologise to Jim Mackinnon, the government's chief planner, who was caught up in the row over the proposals for the Menie Estate near Balmedie in Aberdeenshire.

Mr Sorial said: "All we are trying to do is build a world-class development and it seems, at every angle, someone is trying to make a political issue out of it - it is simply not fair.

"Nicol Stephen says he is supportive of the project but has made ridiculous comments that Alex S
189

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 11:00:54
172 clarry,

I can take it alright but I like to have a higher quality of come back

I agree with you that I do not like this modern SNP because of their holier than thou approach. (This is very similar to Labour in 1997 and look at things now.) SNP are no better than any political parties, after all they do break election promises and then try to say they didn’t.

As for your last point I ask you is the golf course important for the NE? Do they want to replace highly paid/highly skilled jobs from the North Sea with low paid low skilled jobs on a golf course? Trump will charge high fees for the course and accommodation to the users and golfers will probably stay on the course - playing golf or in the bar/restaurant. So will have little real benefit for the local community. As an US company profits will go to the US not Scotland

190

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:03:08
199. Get a grip. Do you really believe the rantings on here that Scotland has no say in UK votes? And what nationality is the Prime Minister again? Start thinking for yourself.

202 and 204. So it's only the SNP that can comment on here is it? Freedom of speech dying a death already, is it?

The difference is that what I say is substantiated fact.

What the SNP mob says is....well, just mindless racist crap, isn't it.
191

walter,

21/12/2007 11:05:23
Yet again we see the posts commenting on this article by the supporters of the SNP are the same as the comments that follow all other articles on Mr Salmond his fellow SNP MSP/MPs or the SNP in general.
They are the comments of the groupthink who have neither the ability nor the will to think for themselves and criticize Mr Salmond or his party no matter what words or deeds they employ and will maliciously denounce anyone with the most ludicrous accusations who do not adhere to the same blind obedience that they do.
192

clola,

off east coast of india. 21/12/2007 11:06:00
Political drivel, all of it. The guy that created all of this, Ford, got fired even by his own LibDem folks on the aberdeenshire council, as he alloowed his own narrow self interest to interfere with the 'greater good' of long term aberdeenshire [after the oil/gas bubble has gone].
Salmond has been forced into making sure the golf courses and all that housing comes his local patch. Good on him. All this bluster in Edinburgh is, just that, hot air and irrelivant.
193

McMillar,

Fife 21/12/2007 11:06:07
Thanks for P&J article Overton. About time that was said and has been covered here for the last week. Every time i'm in the NE the support for this is near 100%. Stephen is way out of step and just making the lib dems look like anti development, anti NE, ankle biters. By pass Nicol, you can see the headlines already.
194

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:06:21
210. This is from a World Bank report published earlier this week.

Have you got anything newer?

Have you got ANYTHING that is actually TRUE?

195

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 11:07:21
#165 Fereralist Two SNP Cllrs. voted for a motion they thought needed adjusting. With a tied vote the chairperson, with best practise on such an important issue,should have acted on the "status quo" voting pattern and referred the motion back to the Formartine Committee who had passed it by 7 votes to 3. Alternatively he could have referred it to the full Council Committee.Taking an ego trip with the future of this international development only indicates to me everything this "trumped" up little chairman is, a nutter. If you want more evidence of this man's previous outrageous decisions here in Aberdeenshire I will be only too pleased to advise.Of course every anorak and bird fancier in the kingdom (and that includes the LibDem fraternity up here too)will jump to his defence. I suggest they all go and make sand castles in the air while the rest of us get on with creating jobs and opportunities for the good folks in Aberdeen and Shire.
196

PDdod,

peterhead 21/12/2007 11:10:14
Cant be bothered with all this 'Trump stuff -It matters k little to the well being of the men ana women in the street. What does make a difference to everone is contained in the following from BBC pages

Last Updated: Friday, 21 December 2007, 10:57 GMT



High Street sales staying steady

The feared High Street slowdown did not take place in November
UK retail sales remained steady during November, despite concerns that consumers would rein in their spending.
Sales rose 1.1% in the three months to the end of November, compared with 1.3% in the three months to October, the Office for National Statistics said.

.
Last Updated: Friday, 21 December 2007, 10:57 GMT

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

High Street sales staying steady

The feared High Street slowdown did not take place in November
UK retail sales remained steady during November, despite concerns that consumers would rein in their spending.
Sales rose 1.1% in the three months to the end of Online sales are currently growing at an average year on year rate of 45 per cent, while the amount spent online now accounts for 10 per cent of the annual spending total of £300 billion. It is thought that consumers will spend up to £200 million a day in December up to the 20th of the month, which is the day when postal orders will no longer reach homes in time.

Particularly big growth areas this Christmas are groceries and clothing, but other areas that are attracting a new generation of entirely web based spenders include online gambling, and online auctions such as Ebay.

THE PEOPLE, IT WOULD SEEM, ARE ARE DOING VERY NICELY UNDER GORDON AND ALISTAIR

197

Steve,

Bo'ness 21/12/2007 11:10:17
I dont have an issue with English people posting their opinions here in general, but I think the question needs to be asked. WHY spend most of your waking hours on a Scottish messageboard, telling us:
a)we would go to rack and ruin if we were independent
b)England is sick of ________ (insert complaint here)
c)Ex-pat Scots should keep their opinions to themselves

English voice, what makes you think we are interested in your ridiculous pompous unionist musings? We aint!
198

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 11:13:30
#196 "From all sides of the Chamber yesterday no party or speaker disagreed that the proposed development should NOT go ahead. So if the process was in anyway unlawful it should be cancelled."

I don't think anyone is saying that - my own thoughts that if and I do say if there are any problems with the process that we learn and make sure there is not a repeat of this situation again.
199

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:16:48
222. a), b) and c)....what??

And I'm so sorry for trashing all the SNP crap about Scotland being oppressed by the big bad union, how democracy is being denied to Scots, how the Scots are denied freedom of speech (so much is wrong with that!LOL!) how that most perfect of perfect men that is Salmond is the answer to every social and economic ill that exisits in Scotland, how the evil English have set up a global network of governments and corporations to conceal the truth about Scotland's economy from the SNP (and I'm not making that up)...

..while the SNP continue to spout such utter (and often racist) drivel on these boards using their tedious multiple usernames (to make it look like there are more than 5 of them), I'll just copy in a slice of the truth of the UK and a realistic glimpse of the future.

And if the SNP idiots don't like it, well, they can just **** off, can't they!

Next!
200

cabrach loon,

inverness 21/12/2007 11:19:42
enough is enough. Alex is doing his bit for the constituents and country and it all seems above board. The political nastiness does the other parties no good whatsoever, they are diminishing themselves and appearing petty and spiteful as well as negative. This is not the first dunes area golf course nor the last - though I do think the number of houses should be reduced and very detailed landscaping ensured. Scotland needs development more than some of the immigrants who are encouraged and deemed essential - why is excessive growth essential so long as the economy can be balanced.
201

Nikostratos,

21/12/2007 11:23:10
English voice the snp supporters see this web site as undermining their well organised propaganda machine.
and so they attack any person who dare expose any contradictions (of which there are many) or untruths which the snp continually spout.

They also do not like to constantly reminded that they do not have anywhere near the support needed for an Referendum on Independence let alone them being able to win one.

The attempt to give the appearance of overwhelming public support to their 'Nationalist' Agenda means they will attempt to discredit and abuse any person who makes a stand against them.

this is not their private little cyperspace but is open for all and everybody so carry on posting regardless.

even if at times you talk a load of sh't as most tend to hear.......
202

MacFhraing,

Isle of Lewis 21/12/2007 11:24:36
If it weren't for the big words and accurate sentence structure, I would have thought Hamish Macdonell was Jackie Baillie's latest pseudonym. The Scotsman is relentless in its anti-Holyrood, anti-SNP campaign, no doubt as a diversionary tactic at present to remove attention from its beloved Wendy.
203

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 11:25:11
#216 Walter SNP BLIND OBEDIENCE! Like the blind obedience to Tony Blair re. Iraq? Like the blind obedience of so-called Labour Gordon Brown, baling out private financiers with our money? Like Margaret Thatcher's poll tax on Scotland or the destruction of our great engineering tradition? The LibDems appear blind to reality! They have never been in real power so they are an unknown quantity, other than their "kiss with power" in a discredited union with Scottish Labour.
204

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 11:28:25
#228 Possibly a wee bit unfair - not all Nats here are as single-minded in their support. That being said, we all know certain posters who are almost consistent in their method of attack.
205

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

21/12/2007 11:31:54
That's me finished for today - on holiday for two weeks.

Won't be posting again today - so if you reply to me i won't get back.

Have a good Xmas folks.

Bye.
206

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:33:13
226. Few people are complaining about this development (maybe the arch-environmentals) as it is realised that Aberdeen needs investment as its prinicpal livelihood dies out.

It's the actions of Salmond that is drawing the attention.

It's either extreme naivety or something very dodgy. For someone who repeatedly states he cannot get involved with the planning process (rules created to prevent corruption) then to be found out having several secret meetings with the Trump org, calling up the planning officials, allowing private access to planning officials, suddenly calling in the scheme to be 'reviewed' by one of his own people bypassing local planning authorities...

...If Labour did this, the SNP nutters would be screaming even more than they are now and they know it!
207

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 11:35:07
# 228 Nicostratos If you are taking up the cudgel on behalf of English Voice I'd measure my stride more accurately. His contributions so far have been unenlightening and his vociferous anti Scottish stance is so unlike most of his kin who have come up here to contribute to Scotland's future.
208

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:40:38
234. More utter crud.

I'm never anti-Scottish but very much anti-SNP.

How can someone who is driving such a bitter wedge between Scots, in the way Salmond and his sycophants are, be good for Scotland?
209

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 11:43:05
225 julian clarry,

You're so busy trying to think of witty comebacks that you have missed my main points:

1 These will be low paid/ low skilled jobs not highly paid/skilled jobs
2 Golfers will stay on the course and its facilities and will probably have a limited impact on the local economy through tourism
3 Yes - point taken about US companies but Trump (a small company as you say) will make excessive profits from inflated course fees which will be taken to America and probably not reinvested in the UK. As to opening up further business opportunities in the US I doubt it. Surely as having Scottish roots he would have done that already

By the way I know about multi-nationals as I work for one (rather than your 2nd hand experience) and Multi-nationals tend to reinvest in the countries they operate in, small companies take the profits back home.

On can I borrow your books on economics when you finish with them. Don’t worry I can wait until you’ve actually read them
210

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 11:47:43
#221 PDdod Tell that story to the 20,000 pensioners living in fuel poverty, 1 in 4 children below real poverty, the debt mountain indefensible to financial analysts, plenty money for illegal wars but the NHS and social providers in dire straights. Police, local authority workers, airport workers, teachers and lecturers, firemen and postal workers all ready to "take to the streets" under Gordon and Alistair. I read that Peterhead is booming! With drugs. unemployed fishermen and firms going "bust". All thanks to your two idols.
211

Double oose,

21/12/2007 11:54:21
The scotsman has moved seamlessly from political spin to brazen fabrication.

This is vindictive drivel of the lowest order and still nobody can say what Salmond did wrong.
212

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:56:30
239. Morning, Ayrshire Scot!

LOL!
213

Louisa,

Perth 21/12/2007 11:57:55
At what point does Scotland become saturated with golf courses so that those doing well at the moment will have their business diluted by spreading the golf industry/profits ever thinner?
Have there been any comments from the big golf centres about their potential loss of custom. Are there so many golfers queuing up to be let into Scotland and our galeforce weather systems off the North Sea - that the need for another course is necessary? At least the north-west coast has the gulf stream - but perhaps not such a large population with the cash to move into the planned housing estate.
214

Jings Crivens,

21/12/2007 11:58:03
221 Il Penseroso,Inverurie

You make many valid points but until we have a fairly system they will alway be those better off than others. I wish it wasn't the case but there you go.

Its strange how thinks change, when I was in Peterhead in the 80's every fisherman had a big house and every fisherman's son had a white Astra GTE.
215

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 11:58:09
235 EV, you must try to express yourself a little more coherently and without all these histrionics. Can't be good for your health. How do you explain the very high level of support and popularity of the SNP and the SNP government, from the last national poll in Scotland?

Voting intention:
SNP: 40% (+7)
Lab: 29% (-3)
Lib Dem: 13% (-3)
Con: 12% (-5)

How has the Scottish government performed in the past 6 months?
Well: 63%
Badly: 26%
Don’t know: 12%
Government which one do you think is doing a better job?
Scottish Government: 54%
UK Government: 11%
Neither: 27%
Don’t know: 8%

Thinking about the perfomance of Gordon Brown as Prime Minister and Alex Salmond as First Minister of Scotland which one do you think is doing a better job?

Alex Salmond: 50%
Gordon Brown: 22%
Neither: 21%
Don’t know: 7%

Doesn't fit with you hysterical ranting, does it? Would seem Scots like the SNP government, Salmond and the performance of the SNP.
216

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 11:58:48
241? Nope.
217

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 11:59:45
239. Ayrshire Scot username no.8:

If you look at 233, all is revealed.
218

Double oose,

21/12/2007 11:59:53
239. Morning, Ayrshire Scot!

LOL!

Wrong again pal. The names oose......double ooose.
219

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:02:01
245. Come on, Scot (good to see you briefly back at your original name, by the way)....you know how much your colleagues hate this cut'n'paste. Try and do better.
220

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:02:51
242 Meths. EV does seem on the verge of another break down, doesn't he. I wonder if his doctors would approve of his wee fits on this site? Can't be healthy, him playing out these shambolic inner psychic pantomimes on here? Still, I am sure his patronising, pompous and shrill anti-Scottish tone is doing a power of good for the Union.... Scots love being talked down to by silly old goats like him. Provides a wee laugh if nothing else.
221

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:05:17
249 Is that your response? Less than forensic, and a tad dissappointing I must say. The SNP government massively popular, Salmond much more popular than the UK prime minister, the SNP at their highest level of support ever? Why do you think this is? Perhaps people like them? Or is that too simple - has there been some dastardly SNP plot to mass hypnotise the nation we are as yet unaware of, but which you are chronicling, wearing a tin-foil hat to protect yourself from it as you do?
222

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:06:17
250. Falling back on your old stalwart that is 'calling them nasty names'?

Fantastic. I'm well and truly back in my place.
223

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:07:12
253 Then Labour would have the support of c14% and the Lib Dems and Tories about c7%? That would still make the SNP the most popular party and the government? Elections count the votes of those who vote (if Labour and Doulgas Alexander are kept out of organising them). Or do unionists have a new method, having lost? Seemed they liked the old method and never used that silly argument....until May 2007. Wonder why?
224

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:10:34
255 EV, sorry, glancing at the posts above was it not you using words like "nutters, syconphants, idiots, corrupt" all over the place. I thought it was, then you complain about name calling, how odd? A less charitable individual than myself might think you are a ludicrous, posturing hypocrite. I look deeper and try to be understanding, and consider possible instability on your part, and will over-look this blip in your logic. Moving on:

I note you still have not turned the 10,000 watt laser focus brilliance of your mind on the poll numbers showing the SNP government is massively popular and the SNP recording their biggest lead ever? Any thoughts?
225

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:10:53
254. 40% is massively popular is it? A sizeable minority, I grant you....but "massively popular"?

The Tories are polling 45% throughout the country and I wouldn't, by any stretch of my imagination, call that "massively popular"!

Do you get nauseous with all that spinning? Mind you don't fall off that chair, youngster.
226

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:11:37
259 A bitter wedge. I think English Voice was perhpas looking at the slice of lemon in his morning gin when he wrote that. A bitter wedge - do people taste wedges of that kind?
227

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:12:17
#215 English Voice, How bl**dy dare you say: "What the SNP mob says is....well, just mindless racist crap, isn't it."

That single sentence reveals the true bigot to be you.

The SNP is a fully inclusive party: It may be a shock to you, but there's plenty of English people in the party - why? precisely because they realise the Lib/Lab muppets where knackering the country they live in. Oh, and isn't the first Scots Asian MSP in the SNP. Racist? Fe*ck off. You're the one with the problem pal.
228

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:13:20
261 I refer you to the % of people who rate the SNP government as good, and compare that to the UK government rating. Or perhaps you wouldl ike to comment on Salmonds rating vs the other party leaders?

The Tories are not polling 45% in Scotland. Or half that. A quarter in fact . Are you getting confused?

229

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:16:04
252 "His demeanour reflected actual loathing for his opponents". You might as well commnet on Gordon Brown's shaking hands at FMQs and say his demeanor reflected a visible loosening of his bowels....

Are you a body language expert? Is that just your imagining or would you care to tell us how you became privvy to the FM's inner feelings?
230

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:16:52
263. 'Tis a shame I don't keep copies of the racist insults that the SNP's finest have directed towards the English...or indeed anyone who dares to disgaree with them.

Never mind, there'll be along soon enough but I'll keep them for you this time.
231

IainGlasgow,

21/12/2007 12:17:54
Are we still on about this?! What I want to know is what news the Labour party are attempting to bury right now.
232

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:18:32
265 hoos hoos, poos poos Berero?
233

IainGlasgow,

21/12/2007 12:19:37
#263

And at least 2 SNP MSPs are English too. Infact Mike Russell was boen in England
234

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:19:44
268 Why did you use phrases like "nutters", sycophants" "idiots" and then complain about "name-calling". Do you have short term memory loss or are you just a spluttering, pompous hypocritcal buffoon?
235

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:20:00
271. Emails?
236

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:20:31
252 AM2, Seasons Greetings to you and yours.
237

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 12:20:58
273. Accurate descriptions can hardly be labelled 'name-calling', can it.
238

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:21:29
#273 "spluttering, pompous hypocritcal buffoon"

Add bigoted smearing troll and you have it in one.
239

IainGlasgow,

21/12/2007 12:22:03
#253

It was still more than anyone else
240

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:26:30
#276 - Happy Christmas AM2!

Question.. How are the lib dems doing at the moment? I guess that there won't be recent enough polling data to show it, but do you think that the Nichol Stephen's actions are going to backfire for him and the NE lib dems?
241

Tormod,

Watching the fog! 21/12/2007 12:30:06
Well here we go again questions asked questions answered Wendy Alexander and Jackie Baillie alleged that the FM absued his position we'll maybe you would like to provide evidence to support this?? You now such as legal proof of wrongdoing jings you must have enough experience of that now.

Also on newsnight she said that no other MSP could contact the chief planner of an application, this isn't an extension to your grannys hoose hen it's a major development. If Jackie Baillie was the Gordon MSP and this happend she would contact the Chief planner directly and he would take her call because of the scale of the development.

Also trying to use the Rosyth redevelopment is more than a red hearing it's an entirley different application with multiple agencies and businesses, Menie has one the lassie is trying to create a smoke screen guess what it failed!!

Again have any rules been broken I ask so me the law and the breach.
242

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:30:22
#284 I can only comment on my own experiences... as an Englishman that's a member of the SNP... I'm not alone, and they're a pretty diverse bunch in Edinburgh. Heck we even have an ex-Aussie soap actress!

Obviously I can't comment on what I haven't seen - but its just depressing when trolls like EV get going on these boards and destroy the mostly good natured rivalry.
243

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:32:16
#286. Spot on.
244

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:32:25
282 Have I? I do hope not.

277 - EV, I see. The pro SNP posters here, are according to you "nutters", "idiots" "sycophants" and this is not name calling, but you squeal in protest when I suggested that you may be less than stable and a tad hypocritical? Happy Christmas.
245

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:34:30
English Voice - you posted two days ago that "Scots are a nation of whingers" and the nation of "biggest whingers". Do you think there is a danger that such generalisation might be taken as racist?
246

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:38:02
283 ALex Salmon seems a bit crossed with Nicol Stephen's hypocrisy - as well he might. It was Nicol who was found guilty of breaking expenses rules, having claimed mortgage payments from the parliament using false information. It was Nicol Stephen who breached the code by publicly opposing a by-pass near his other home, and backing an alternate route. And it was the Lib Dems who refuse to give back £2.4M from a convicted US fraudster. If those who do this the "smell sleaze" of course it would make one cross?

I ask again, how do you know Salmond has "loathing" for his opponents. Is that just a fanciful characterisation from you?
247

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:42:58
251 Meths

" a bit festive"? :-)

hoos poos
248

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 12:48:58
#299 - Ah yes, but isn't the theatre fun ;)
249

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:50:39
299 An interpretation. He may have been cross. It would be hard to take someone to task like that while laughing? The choking hyporcisy from Nicol Stephen would make anyone a tad cross. As the editorials in various papers have said, Stephen is hypocrotical and mud slinging.

In light of the letters from Elvigde and the planner (care to comment on those?) there is not a shred of impropriety or basis to accuse Salmond of such. Nicol Stephen (found guilty of improper expenses claims....) deserved a good dressing down, which is what he got. I thought the wee "Happy Christmas" was funny. Salmond was laughing with Annabel before that and quite charming to Curran after that etc - I suggest you watch the whole thing - seemed like a relaxed and confident performance otherwise quite cheerful.

I ask again, how do you know the FM's inner feelings? Did you just state a subjective and highly personal interpretation on here?
250

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:52:00
299 Any commnets on Gordon Brown's body language at PMQs then? The shaking hand (rage, fear?), the shouting delivery? A man consumed with loathing?
251

BIG EYE,

Paisley 21/12/2007 12:53:19
I hope the voters of dumbarton have been following this debate. What we have discovered so far is that if West Dumbartonshire Council ever muck up a valuable development proposal the bold Jackie will not even pick up the phone to see if the Chief Planner can help sort out the problem.

That's the sort of representation thats made Labour what it is in Scotland today!

Let's have more of Jackie she's brilliant!
252

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:55:15
304 And you were such a big fan of Alex Salmond before as well. Pity.
253

George Mackay,

Dundee 21/12/2007 12:57:01
I feel really sorry for those posters who get up at midnight to rubbish stories in the Scotsman abut the SNP that they don't like.
I hope you have a Merry Christmas anyway. I'm off to spend Christmas in my caravan in Arbroath, then the Mackays are off to Edinburgh next Saturday to collect the worst family in Scotland award (we won in 2005 and 2006) and then to Auntie Jean at Coupar Angus for Hogmanay. Much more fun than getting up in the middle of the night to rubbish the Scotsman.
254

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:57:43
306 "distasteful displays"?.... like a man found guilty of abusing parliamnetary expenses where personal gain was involved, a man who publicly interfered in a planning application near his house, and whose party refuses to return millions from a convicted frauster, using a phrase like "smells of sleaze" where no evidence of sleaze exists? I agree, very distasteful.
255

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 12:58:29
#235 E.V. I love your phrase, "more utter cud". Here is some real "cud" to digest and regurgitate. If you are anti SNP then you are anti Scotland. With your focus you must be pro union. That makes you like the others of your persuasion, charlatans.They crave security and wellbeing from others and identify themselves with Westminster. But the veneer is rapidly being stripped from the "rich man's table" and the real wealth of the structure is appearing with every benefit the new government in Holyrood makes to the populace. Far from driving a wedge between Scots, Salmond and his "Sychophants" (?) are gaining the trust and quiet approval of former doubters. The Unionists are waking up to reality. They are grasping at straws, endeavouring to besmirch the honour, credibility and undoubted political ability of a First Minister who is, in the minds of most reasonable people, a tried and tested winner.
256

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 12:58:57
309 I am beating no man, straw or otherwise. See posts from English Voice if you are looking for flagellation.
257

Denise,

Shetland 21/12/2007 13:05:12
English Voice..Why do you even post here? You just snipe all day long. Go and help your wife prepare for xmas.

I agree with one thing, the SNP is driving a huge wedge between some sections of the Scottish public:- between those who dream of a better future, and those who would rather destroy it all than be proven wrong. It must be so tough for them, and I suppose the only form of defence they know is to attack.

p.s.
I suppose you're going to accuse me of being "anti-English" now, as that seems to be your stock response whenever you are criticised. The debating skills of a fool.


258

DRB,

Dumfries 21/12/2007 13:09:48
#311. I assume you're of the opinion that if you were anti-Nazi in the 1930s, you were anti-German? More and more of these hysterical responses are having a dangerously familiar ring to them. For the record, I absolutely support independence for Scotland but never, never via the SNP or the opportunist Salmond.
259

Denise,

Shetland 21/12/2007 13:20:44
Hark, it's the sound of someone dusting down the Nazi comparisons yet again. "More and more of these hysterical responses are having a dangerously familiar ring to them"... indeed!
260

Calum Liddle,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 13:25:49
HAMISH, YOUR MEMBERSHIP TO THE LABOUR PARTY IS A DISCRACE TO JORNALISTIC OBJECTIVITY.

I THOUGHT THIS WAS SCOTLANDS NATIONAL PAPER?

THE BRITS HAVE COVERED THE STORY CORRECTLY, WHY CAN'T YOU? PATHETIC - COME HAVE AN INTERVIEW WITH THE INDEPENDENT, I WOULDN'T GIVE YE THE JOB MY FRIEND!
261

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 13:26:01
#252 AM2 Salmond "shamelessly sidestepping questions!" Come on! You can do better than that! I've yet to read you giving that kind of pathetic criticism to your much vaunted respect of the masters of spin and deceit at PMQs in Westminster. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.Alas Salmond falls into neither category.
262

James,

Dundee 21/12/2007 13:28:08
#316 How on earth do you propose to gain independence if not through the ballot box?

Yet again we see somebody confusing the Civic nationalism of the SNP with the Wild-Eyed rhetoric of 1920s beer kellers in Bavaria.
The Nazis philosophy was based on superiority and subjugation of 'lesser' peoples, as they took their 'rightful place' as master of some Wagnerian fantasy.

The SNP simply wants EQUALITY for Scotland, as a sovereign state, amongst many.

A country of 5 million is hardly in a position to embark on a mission of world domination.
Unless your comparing AS to some latter day Genghi Khan?

Get real and answer my question!!!
263

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 13:39:00
Gallus Alex, in his dual role as First Minister and MSP, would appear to have over-stepped himself and has completely blurred the issue?

The Opposition Unionist politicians will continue to pursue the SNP regarding this matter because up until now they have been unable to lay a glove on the government.

However, there can be few countries in the world which would ever consider rejecting this development for the sake of preserving a few butterflys and plants? No wonder the US media are mystified!

The SNP Government is damned if it does, and damned if it doesn't!
264

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast aged 49 A nationalist not a racist 21/12/2007 13:41:17
Typical biased ant SNP hootsman dragging on made to look like a new story. The unionists who are also in favour of the project are looking for attention, Nicol Steven is a disgrace and in danger of peeving of the developer towards norhern Ireland. making a mountain out of a mole hill, no rules have been broken, John Swinneys visit to Trumps place was as an invite by enterprise Scotland and was arranged long before all this, i believe it was set up by the previouse administration. Labour however have broken there own law which was to stop opposition partys getting funds from overseas donors.
265

Il Penseroso,

21/12/2007 13:44:49
#316 DRB Dare I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror. Please tell me, and I am sure many other Independence apostles, how YOU would gain your admitted preference for Scotland other than thro' the SNP? Re Hitler. In the 1930s (and I was there) I was anti-Hitler. I was also anti-German considering 90% of Germans supported him. Were the millions of dead and those who fought in that war pro-German? If so why did we kill so many of them? I'm sure the troops who liberated Belsen and the others were a bit sore at the obliteration of Dresden! We are in a new century and that means a new approach. But don't forget the lessons of the past.
266

Gina Gibson,

Wales 21/12/2007 13:49:04
Has bendy Wendy been called in front of parliament to explain her acceptance of an illegal donation? Perhaps she should be answering questions........preferably under caution by the police!!
267

James,

21/12/2007 13:49:35
#315 Meths

The true identity of AM2 is finally revealed....

"Magic fingers and an unerring eye gave “Hologram Tam”, one of the best forgers in Europe, the skills to produce counterfeit banknotes so authentic that when he was arrested nearly £700,000 worth were in circulation.

Thomas McAnea, 58, who was jailed for six years and four months yesterday, was the kingpin of a professional operation based in Glasgow that, according to police, had the capacity to produce £2 million worth of fake notes a day – enough potentially tom destabilise the British economy. More may remain out there undetected".

He had evaded a long prison sentence in 2000 on a technicality after being caught with £1.6 million of counterfeit money.

268

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 13:50:50
Afternoon All
You like your straw men don't you Am2;-)
269

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 4 Copenhagen 0 21/12/2007 13:53:29
One suspects our "English Voice" is doing his best - or worst - to wind up the people of Scotland.

STAND UP TO THE ENGLISH VOICE!!! DON'T LET HIM BUL ---

ACH, cannae be ar$ed. Let him speak his sh!te. We can a' hae a guid laugh! :-)
270

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 13:57:32
Right, back to this madness for a little bit more fun.

"If I'm anti-SNP, I'm anti-Scottish"....Really?? Interesting logic. Democracy flying right out of the window here!

And we're back onto that Nazi analogy then?

It's strange how a nationalist party with a power-hungry leader and a embittered band of followers spouting rhetoric about an internal enemy stealing the wealth, denouncing all non-followers as traitors, calling for all them to be deported, regular accusations of a media being against them and therefore against the country...

...They're nothing like the SNP!
271

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:00:16
So which of my posts have caused so much anger among the Salmond Youth?

Was it this one?:

"Don't forget that Salmond's incessant quest for a place in history will immediately cost Scotland 40,000 jobs in Glasgow alone from the loss of the Faslane bases and the end of the MOD-dependent shipyards on the Clyde.

And that is just the very beginning of the turmoil.

What currency to use? Staying with Sterling will force Scotland to be dependent on the Bank but now with no influence whatsoever in interest rates. And the ECB won't allow a newcomer to join the Euro for several years, at least, as a newly-independent Scotland has to show that it can follow its strict rules first. And as for a whole new currency??

Scotland having its own voice in the world? Well, SNP will take Scotland out of the 'Permanent Five' in the UN's governing Security Council to become just another
small country (112th place in size, 55th in GDP) with 0.5% of the total vote.

There'll be no place in G8 either so bang goes any say in global economic or trade policy.

No more place at the top of the WTO either.

It's own voice in Europe? Salmond wants to take Scotland out of the 'Big Four' and instead have it as 22nd in the EU rankings with a mere 1.3% of the vote (with more small countries joining all the time decreasing that vote further).

With 0.5% of the General Assembly vote and nothing in the Security Council, what influence in the world will Scotland have then?

With the EU running much economic policy, trade policy, immigration policy, environmental policy, agricultural policy etc, what say will a country with 1.3% of the vote have?

Is the picture becoming any clearer yet?"
272

banthebomb,

21/12/2007 14:00:21
#165 Federalist

Because the 2 SNP s and the other 54 councillors who did not give Ford their support realised that Ford was an impediment to progress in the area . No Trump , No AWPR ,No Airport Extension and goodness knows what else !

Ford is still a councillor but I suspect he will have to go elsewhere in order to have a chance of remaining one. Any takers ?
273

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:01:09
Or this one?:

"And as for the economic security that the SNP is all-but guaranteeing:

The UK is:

5th in the world by GDP per capita by consumption (comparing average living standards).

7th in the world by simple GDP per capita (higher than Germany, France, Italy, Japan....),

4th in the world by total GDP (still ahead of China and only beaten by the USA, Japan and Germany, countries with far larger populations),

6th in the world by total GDP (calculating in the cost of living)...

Yet Salmond will have you believe that HE can do better!"
274

George Mackay,

Dundee 21/12/2007 14:04:57
#326 James. Sorry but yuu're wrong. AM2 is my second cousin Andrew or Andy. My father's cousin (also called Andy) was working in County Antrim when he met and married a local lassie called Jennie Ferguson. They nicknamed their son AM2 and when he grew up he moved to Glasgow and became a rent collector.
AM2 is good with laptops. He keeps one under the passenger seat of his car with a wire attached to a special aerial on the roof. When it picks up a wireless network signal which doesn't need a password it bleeps twice so AM2 knows that he is connected. At Auntie Jean's birthday party three weeks ago he showed me how to log on to next door's wireless network.
275

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:06:12
294. Selective quoting....so unlike you.

Actually, what I said was "The SNP are developing a new stereotype of Scotland being a nation of whingers".

Do you see the difference between your quote and what I actually said?

You can try and make me out to be anti-Scottish as much as you like, but it just ain't true.

Anyway, where was I?.....
276

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:17:06
330 English Voice

how curious, I count that as the 14th time you have posted the exact same post about UK being 5th in world etc. I wonder, is your logic that repetition, to the point of lethal boredom, adds weight or insight to your "arguments", or do you think the post was just so masterful it would be a shame to deny us a 15th rehearsal of it?

Could you answer a couple of questions?
- Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Denmark are all successful small countries. What is it about Scotland that makes you think it could not be as successful independent?

- You have often cited differential higher public spending per head in Scotland (even though it is lower than London or NI). Are you in favour of a review of this, and if yes, how/ what would replace Barnett in your very valuable and weight opinion etc?
277

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:17:57
How about unemployment figures?

Currently Scotland has an unemployment rate of just 4.6%, the lowest for 33 years.

But can Salmond sustain this with the economic upheaval he will cause by losing monetary control of the national currency as well as the thousands of jobs that will be lost in UK-related industries?

Listening to the SNP, you'd believe that independence is the answer to all of Scotland's problems.....but only if you listen to the SNP.

278

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:24:18
336. Lordy, how many times do I have to answer those very same oft-repeated questions before it actually sinks in?

Go on, give me the number.
279

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 21/12/2007 14:27:17
337 can you show me were AS or the Scottish government broke the procedure / rules laid out for this application.

The ghost threat of a legal challenge would be based on what exactly? Nothing because the rules were followed it's very hard to challenge a ruiling that was delivered by the correct procedures 54 questions asked and answered I believe.

So what exactly is your critic of AS in this matter?
280

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:29:31
339 Once would be fine. If you have answered them before, accept my apologies as I haven't seen the answers. I assume, as you have reposted the above posts (UK 5th....) 15 times now, you won't mind reposting the answers?

PS - is nearly 8 hours since you posted about number of votes in European parliament/ Scotland at back of UN.....

Appreciating, in advance, your response to these:


- Norway, Iceland, Ireland, Denmark are all successful small countries. What is it about Scotland that makes you think it could not be as successful independent?

- You have often cited differential higher public spending per head in Scotland (even though it is lower than London or NI). Are you in favour of a review of this, and if yes, how/ what would replace Barnett in your very valuable and weight opinion etc?
281

Lianachan,

Highlands 21/12/2007 14:31:46
#224 An English Ar*e

Hugely comical rant, many thanks for the laugh.
282

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:32:07
338. Weak.

But I'll repeat my position AGAIN, just for you:

Scotland will obviously survive on its own but the question is 'Will it do better as a small independent country than as part of the wealthy and successful country that is the UK' as Salmond consistently argues?

Why and how you can mistake this simple proposition as a suggestion that "Scotland will surely fail" suggests more than a little about the embittered paranoia that possesses the minority nationalist element.

Don't you think?
283

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:32:17
337 Losing monetary control of the national currency? Is not the current UK government in favour, in principle, to joining the Euro? eeek, will Scotland not suffer if the UK does this?

And why do assume an independent Scotland would lose control - Norway, Iceland have their own currencies, as did Ireland very successfully before joining the Euro, stil successfully.

You have ommitted to mention the sky falling down, perpetual darkness, gloom, horsey people of the apocalypse etc if Scotland were to be independent.
284

BMeister,

21/12/2007 14:32:39
339 English Voice
I don't know. I haven't seen you answer them.
285

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:33:34
343 Good, you have answered one question, and confirm Scotsland could be successful independent.

You ommitted to answer the second question:
- You have often cited differential higher public spending per head in Scotland (even though it is lower than London or NI). Are you in favour of a review of this, and if yes, how/ what would replace Barnett in your very valuable and weight opinion etc?
286

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast aged 49 A nationalist not a racist 21/12/2007 14:33:40
Methalions @ 338 I agree with you as regards EV. I dont agree much with what AM2 says, but at least he is civil and worth debating with. unlike English voice whom we should really totally ignore and therefore stop feeding him or her.
287

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:34:47
343 Actually, you didn't answer the first questiom. I asked what, in your opinion, would make Scotland less successful independent that Norway, ICeland, Denmark or Ireland. Your answer just says something about the UK. Please try again?
288

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:37:40
347 Davie

not sure, I think he is perhpas to be encouraged? His patronising tones of condescension are sure to help the SNP cause, over layed as they are over vacuous and endlessly repeated non-arguments?
289

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrhire coast 21/12/2007 14:40:43
349 Ayrhire scot You are probably right, his spouts do the unionist cause ni good at all.
290

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 14:42:11
348. Shan't. Don't want to.
291

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:44:57
350. Davie

yep, his posts are fairly repulsive - pompous down talking of Scots and Scotland - (he doesn't want to tell us why Scots would be less successful than Norway or Ireland) and the usual "from whom all blessings flow" patronising, you should all be so grateful, ridicuolous "economic" waffle. I think he could be a mascot for counter productive unionist anti-Scottishness? (mascot, or gargoyle...)
292

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast aged 49 A nationalist not a racist 21/12/2007 14:52:02
353 A S absolutely
293

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 14:55:55
English Voice, a' ower the place! If your predictions are so dire for our country, why not use your obvious spare time doing up your house, put it on the market and as the house prices here are still quite buoyant, make a bob or two and return to your beloved place in the union and leave us to get on with our efforts to redress the wrongs you so succinctly summarise in your comments! Why live in such a deperately flawed environment and why did you come here in the first place? Anglisisation or a well paid job? Or are the Empire residents arriving too often and too numerous in that green and pleasant land?
294

Buchanan,

Los Altos Hills 21/12/2007 14:56:10
Given the Scotsman has given up on any fair
and balanced reporting and appears unable to undertake
investigative journalism I undertook me own.

EXCLUSIVE English Voice unmasked EXCLUSIVE

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sPOC9-GEb4k

At least explains why he acts in such a juvenile manner.
295

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 14:58:34
354 I think EV maybe a sad lonely and very bitter soul. Sad at Xmas time.

On a happier note, what a beautiful day in Ayrshire! had a walk along the beach earlier, Arran looking grand. What a lovely country we have, the day it is fully in our stewardship and prospering i sgetting closer and closer. 2008 is full of potential for Scotland.
296

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 21/12/2007 15:02:33
#357 yup. While we're on the subject of SNP policies that make people's lives easier:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7155589.stm

We've just got rid of the punitive hospital parking charges that nuLab recklessly allowed to flourish! Can't wait to see how the Scotsman trys to spin this one....
297

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast aged 49 A nationalist not a racist 21/12/2007 15:02:54
i have very good friends who are English and English voice is not representive of them, indeed some of them vote SNP and many English folk living in Scotland are SNP members.
298

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 15:03:34
352. Winged Messenger/World View/Swiss Tony?

355. Roughly translated: "Get out of my country."

Separated at birth?:

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/TS//TH1_2012200734salmond.jpg

http://www.foszies.co.uk/2006%20Hidden%20Treasures/Wind%20in%20the%20Willows/I%20Toad%20WWsmall.jpg
299

Ferguson,

Glasgow 21/12/2007 15:06:53
I think the Scotsman prints these stories as a total wind up. There cannot be any other serious explanation for such tripe. It generates discussion and hits for their website so maybe that's why they do it. Pathetic stuff from a newspaper in terminal decline.
300

U. Lukenatmepal?,

21/12/2007 15:09:38
For pity's sake, get a grip, people. The great Donald wil not be deflected by such trivial considerations as democracry or Scottish sensitivities.
301

,

21/12/2007 15:10:35
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302

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 15:10:52
361 EV, you really are pathetic and do your cause no good.

I only very recently joined the SNP. However, growing up here, I have known many people in the SNP, councillors, activists etc. They have all been sincere, decent people, with the best interests of Scotland at heart. They have often sacrificed their time, money etc to campaign for a belief, a destination, a better country, that they hold honestly and with conviction. Not one they have been racist or anti-English. The SNP has many English memenrs, indeed members from many countries and ethnic backgrounds.

When you come on here, spouting about "SNp sycophants" "snp idiots" "SNP nutters" you not only show your total ignorance of Scottish politics, but you are insulting thousands of decent people like the ones I have kmown in my community, and hundreds of thousands of Scots who voted for the SNP.

You argumentation is flaccid, is laced with an anti-Scottish prejudice and bears no scrutiny in logic. Other unionist posters who can articulate an argument, one I happen to respect but disagree with, pro the union, probably cringe when they use your palsied and lame contributions.

Merry Xmas.
303

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 15:11:40
364 FAKEY ALERT - Hi English Voice/ fakey me. More great unionist contributions to debate.
304

An English Voice™,

21/12/2007 15:18:37
355. Er.....on what "wrongs" do I comment?

I notice that you few SNP die-hards are accusing me of all types of things, none of which are actually true.

I don't wish Scotland ill or bad luck, I do not predict failure (just not the success currently enjoyed), I'm not racist, never talked down Scotland or the Scottish (except the mindless drones who believe everything said by the SNP and anyone who supports them, independent thought seems impossible with these people) and so on and on and on.

I merely state the unionist case, for example, by providing the current economic situation and ask if Salmond can improve on this like he claims.

The SNP and their ilk also claim Scotland has no voice of its own (thereby claiming the UK has no voice in the world!) yet outright reject my argument that with 0.5% of the UN vote and 1.3% (and due to shrink further) of the EU vote, the voice of an independent Scotland will be almost silent compared to the status quo.

What exactly is your argument with me?

Surely it's not something as petty as just trying to dismiss any opposition by trashing it instead of having the balls and wit to actually debate. Surely not.
305

,

21/12/2007 15:18:49
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306

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 15:18:58
#215 English Voice

It is your right to post on here just as it is my right to ignore them.
307

,

21/12/2007 15:19:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
308

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 15:21:36
#216 walter.

A question for you. Do you think that the Scotsman is generally biased against the SNP and biased towards the other parties, particularly Labour?
309

,

21/12/2007 15:22:19
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310

,

21/12/2007 15:22:21
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311

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 21/12/2007 15:22:48
Watching the FMQ highlights, again Wendy has accused AS of applying pressure on the Chief Planner, yet unlike her own wee troubles, she can claim anything in parliament proof is in the pudding.

Also how many 1billion plus projects have been rejected??
312

,

21/12/2007 15:24:44
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313

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 15:26:03
#233 EV

For someone who is so fond of facts, I am surprised to see that your post contains not a single one. Speculation yes but facts nope.
314

,

21/12/2007 15:27:11
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315

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 21/12/2007 15:29:22
#338 Methalions.

Well said!
316

Andrew D,

21/12/2007 15:51:17
Funny how an English (voice) here has a go at Scottish people (expats) posting in a story affecting Scotland.

Excuse me? :)

I've not commented here because honestly, it's going around and around; the same old diatribe rubbish from Nicol Stephen/Wendy Alexander/A.N.Other LibLabCons while the admission of committing an illegal act gets conveniently ignored.

Dear oh dear.
317

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 21/12/2007 15:55:20
I also saw the Lecture given by the First Minister for too long Gaelic has been attacked along with other cultural aspects of Scottish life, these of course were planned they didn't happen by accident.
318

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 15:55:37
381 Fakey (extra space) - while your antics are vaguely amusing, showing as they do an inability to discuss matters, do you not think you are a bit sad putting a gaelic organisation's email address on here? Do you not think they have better things to do than answer emails from sad, lonley and silly folks like yourself?

PS - fresh prince is quite good, but i prefer Seinfeld, so if you could ask for both that would be better.
319

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 16:04:25
388
Ayrshire fakey
And Jim Henson's Dinosaurs!
320

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 16:06:04
389 Oh aye, they were quite good (I am me, fakey is at 381)
321

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 16:08:19
390
Oops.Sorry.
322

Geoff,

21/12/2007 16:11:58
372 Ayrshire Scot-and perhaps Urdu?
323

John H C,

edinburgh 21/12/2007 16:19:47
What a lot of GARBAGE Does anyone realise that this so called GOLF developement is in fact a HOUSING development under the cover of golf? The gullible public get carried away with their anti English rhetoric and totaly miss the point. So much wind.
324

Al capachino,

Earth 21/12/2007 16:20:55
Why dont all the people who hate this paper get together and start our own online version, i'm sure it could be done and would work......i'm serious by the way !
325

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 16:23:45
392 Geoff, mind the gap (extra space after name) 372 is a fakey
326

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 21/12/2007 16:24:30
Last nights Newsnight Scotland was the most dry boak inducing thing I have seen on the TV for a long time. Does the blubbery odious Jackie Bailey have the slightest concept of how she looks and sounds. Her looks are bad enough but when she opens her flabby big gob, dear God in Heaven what a cringing horrible noise. It not only curls your toes but your whole foot.
Her Faux Anglo Scottish vowels are just to pathetic and affected. I have heard people behave like this on the phone when they are addressing someone who they feel inferior to. Or when they move to a job in London, and they seem oblivious to how utterly horrible it is. Perhaps she feels it will make her more credible if she uses the Faux Anglo, or that she will be seen to be more sophisticated than the usual over promoted shop steward that has become the hallmark of Scottish Liebour. Either way I cannot bear to listen to her.
This paper has now scraped the bottom of the sleaze barrel, and shown us all exactly what it is made of. The same molecules as Unionists, I will not be visiting again, I would not even wipe my ar$e with it.

ALBA GU BRATH.
327

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 21/12/2007 16:24:31
Last nights Newsnight Scotland was the most dry boak inducing thing I have seen on the TV for a long time. Does the blubbery odious Jackie Bailey have the slightest concept of how she looks and sounds. Her looks are bad enough but when she opens her flabby big gob, dear God in Heaven what a cringing horrible noise. It not only curls your toes but your whole foot.
Her Faux Anglo Scottish vowels are just to pathetic and affected. I have heard people behave like this on the phone when they are addressing someone who they feel inferior to. Or when they move to a job in London, and they seem oblivious to how utterly horrible it is. Perhaps she feels it will make her more credible if she uses the Faux Anglo, or that she will be seen to be more sophisticated than the usual over promoted shop steward that has become the hallmark of Scottish Liebour. Either way I cannot bear to listen to her.
This paper has now scraped the bottom of the sleaze barrel, and shown us all exactly what it is made of. The same molecules as Unionists, I will not be visiting again, I would not even wipe my ar$e with it.

ALBA GU BRATH.
328

HEN BROON 5,

21/12/2007 16:25:28
OOPS GOODBYE
329

HEN BROON 5,

21/12/2007 16:30:29
#386 ANDREW.

Before I go English Voice is the vile troll known as AM2. Who cannot bear to appear on this forum now as he has been so expertly filleted and humilitated that he has become a discredited shell with nothing left. He is watching and posting under his various id's 24/7 which makes me think I am glad as he is not out walking the streets.

ALBA GU BRATH
330

Carlung,

Haddington 21/12/2007 16:37:30
I'm a student and have just hitched-hiked home to Scotland for Xmas etc. I was lucky to get a lift in a lorry bound for Edinburgh. When we passed the border on the A68 there were people standing getting their photos taken at the "Welcome to Scotland' sign. I remarked this to the lorry driver and he replied that in over 28 years driving up and down this road, he has yet to see folk getting their photos taken at the "Welcome to England" sign. Must say something?
331

Eve,

Scotland 21/12/2007 16:43:23
#15 An English Voice™: Same could be said about unionist and the apparent middle of the road commenters on this site!!
332

b h,

dornoch 21/12/2007 16:44:46
Let's see:

Grilled Salmond, followed by fresh Blow!

Are we in Scotland or Studio 54 in the 80s?

Scotsman you have gone way downhill, And yet, and yet, strangely, I cannot look away.
333

Eve,

Scotland 21/12/2007 17:03:20
#402 b h: My hesd hurts the day!!
& as a result......
I though the heading originally said fresh bolw (then I relaised that it was still the wrang spelling as this is the correct spelling "bowl") of Salmon
334

puskas,

East Kilbride 21/12/2007 17:08:44
the Tories, Libdum and Bendy Nu Labour... were culled at Holyrood yesterday afternoon. First Minister Mr Alex Salmond destroyed them all. Boy the faces of the unionist leaders were a sight to see..

This newspapers comment on the happenings yesterday afternoon are outright lies..

It seems Education, Education, Education B-Liars signature certainly failed the flock. Intentional or NuLabour would be dead and buried. The numpty parties are in Scotland, and hopefully England..
335

Il Penseroso,

Inverurie 21/12/2007 17:23:36
John HC #393 So what is wrong with a housing development aligned with golf courses? Stewart Mile has made millions from housing estates but he employs thousands of workers (even in Edinburgh) and gives job opportunities to tradesmen and women. What employment and how many job opportunities will a few twitchers watching oyster catchers scewing on the sand dunes at Balmedie create? The strange stories of ostriches come to mind!
336

Anna the Second,

West Lothian 21/12/2007 17:24:04
Hmm, no 13, you are right. A devotion to the use of quotation marks and capitalisation of the word "Editor" seems to be a common feature in the first batch of messages.

Rumbled, I would say!
337

McMillar,

Fife 21/12/2007 17:27:04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh2c4rDJ9A4

Alex Salmond and Nicol Stephen. Judge for yourself...
338

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 17:28:48
406
As are you,Dominie;-)

http://www.scottish-memories.co.uk/magazine-issues/images/1998/August/intheday.jpg
339

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 17:57:21
415
When did the editor confirm this?
I am not denying it AM2,but trying to get the editor to comment on such things as this shakey website...
340

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 17:57:39
416. Indeed, Ms Baillie's accent is totally irrelevant. What she says, or doesn't is. Her performance defending Wendy A on Newsnight was trajic, and her defensive mud-slinging at Salmond to divert attention from donors and "computers for labour" (he used a car, McConnell hired helicopters) is pathetic and possibly damaging to investment in Scotland.

Hen Broon might as well comment on Mike Russell's accent.
341

Geoff,

21/12/2007 17:58:35
395 ayrshire scot-thanks my friend!Surely The scotsman can do something about this name faking thing. Being computer challenged I dont have the answer but I pose a question-if when registering I sign in with the name James the Third and that name is linked to an email address then The Editor should declare that pen name closed. Two similar names with minor differences should not be tolerated! Got a bit suspicious when u started singing "Rule britannia!" Dont get me wrong fellow Unionists-we need all the help we can get, but not like this-spoils an otherwise interesting and vibrant forum.
401 Eve-tragic about the 400-my sympathies! maybe there are some multiple personalities and fakies but there is a broad sweep of opinion in this forum with many permutations from hard right to hard left,Unionist monarchists to republican nationalists and Unionist republican to Nat Monarchists and lots of other stuff in between. I would class myself as a middle of the road Unionist-my heart will always be for union or crown-my head,well,open to ideas. Accept that there will statistically be a number of people who occupy the middle ground.
Rgrds
342

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 17:59:06
417 Conan

ALan the Ed came on in a big blue box (as is his way) and confirmed that Am2 doesn't work for the Scotsman. He didn't say he wasn't employed by Edinburgh Evening News though :-) I belive Alan the Ed. He seems nice.
343

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 18:01:12
419 Geoff, no, you can put a space etc after a name and it appears as a unique name. I wouldn't mind if fakey was as funny as 'Galactic Cannibal ate the Grey Man' or the 'Master ate Media1' fakies, but he seems tragically dull and a tad bitter. Just my luck to attract a second rate fakey.
344

Geoff,

21/12/2007 18:01:39
By the way all, nice blog going on Queen elizabeth long reign-all very civilised. Why dont some of u comment?
345

Geoff,

21/12/2007 18:03:22
421 Ayrshire Scot-you deserve better!
346

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 18:07:35
423 LOL. Why thank you.

422, yes, I am not a monarchist, prefer a republic for various reasons, but did enjoy the recent series on her (Monarhcy at Work I think was called), and she has conducted herself with great dignity, dedication, diplomacy and sure footedness over many years. While I don't support the institution, I do respect the way she has served her office.
347

Andrew Allan,

21/12/2007 18:10:34

#252., AM2.
‘Fascinating slant on FMQs by some of the cybernats above. I saw the FM shamelessly sidestepping questions and instead launching swaggering attacks, that being his only form of defence. His demeanour reflected actual loathing for his opponents; all deeply distasteful. But to some of the SNP internet activists that's a great show. Verbal thuggery; par for the course. Pun intended.’

AM2, if for one moment a fair-minded person was to suppose possible innocence in the workings of the first minister, would your supposition on the way the first minister conducted himself be wholly inappropriate to the way things may really have happened. Has anyone suggested that they have had undue pressure placed upon them?

348

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 18:11:42
422,425
Indeed,I don't have a problem with Liz.
I just hope that she is the very LAST Monarch of Scotland.
349

Andrew Allan,

21/12/2007 18:13:22
#427.,Methalions.

Thank you for admitting it was a majority, and not something less than it was.
350

Nikostratos,

21/12/2007 18:15:25
I will say well done Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon on capping Car parking charges at hospitals. Having spent a considerable time visiting at a hospital paying a small fortune this is one policy i absolutely agree with .

Having seen many o.a.ps and others visiting sick relatives having to pay to do so is well 'SICK'

Hen brooms farewell tour goes on this is about the tenth time he has said goodbye to my knowledge. Safe to assume he will be back More's the shame.


to meths

http://www.cardsdirect.com/images/christmascards/C0318_M.jpg
351

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 18:16:03
426
Duh.Now I remember.I think I actually suggested that he hire you...
352

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 18:25:29
434
Would it work?

353

Andrew Allan,

21/12/2007 18:29:31
#424.,Methalions.
I'm sorry Methalions, but I have to agree with AM2 here on this one, wash my mouth out for even suggesting such a thing,but I still believe in the Scottish ideal of treating people with equality, and Hen is not even suggesting they are doing so, or arguing the person they are talking about is actually treating others as being less than equal.
354

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/12/2007 18:29:40
Hello?
355

,

21/12/2007 18:30:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
356

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/12/2007 18:30:47
438. That last post vanished.
357

Conan the Librarian™,

21/12/2007 18:31:41
*****Alan Editor*****

Could AM2 get an application form?

We would all be very grateful.
Thanks
358

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 18:33:29
439 Ciderman

are you saying Scotland has not been developing for the past 85 years in the Union?
359

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/12/2007 18:33:53
It was about dumbing down and unionism and Dummies for The Scotsman as appears to having been read by some of the new posters.
360

Montague Q X Burton,

21/12/2007 18:34:03
Yikes, day ten of mince-gate. Do they seriously think they're getting somewhere with this? Happy Christmas.
361

Mong basher,

21/12/2007 18:35:41
#206 - actually he (and I) would have you believe that WE can do better.

The question is not where we rank in the world as undoubtedly our rank would fall by at least half if we split from england, but what our quality of life would be like. He (and I) contend that it would be better if we were independant.
362

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 18:36:05
437 I agree with AM2 that Ms Baillie's accent is not relevant. However, AM2 has not commnented on the usual Nazi-SNP associations above, or the other personalised abuses - I have never seen him condemn personal attacks on Salmond et al. AM2's indignation would be more credible if it was less obviously one sided?
363

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/12/2007 18:36:46
Whoops. The Scotsman for Dummies
364

 Ayrshire Scot™,

21/12/2007 18:38:36