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Council tax looks doomed as Labour rivals join push for an alternative

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Published Date: 11 August 2008
SCOTLAND looks destined to lose the council tax after all three candidates for the Scottish Labour leadership said last night they favoured a different form of property tax to replace it.
With the SNP and the Liberal Democrats already committed to ending the council tax, there is now a consensus among three of the four main parties in Scotland to introduce a different form of local government taxation.

With the Scottish Government considering responses to its consultation paper on a local income tax, the issue of domestic taxation has now become a defining issue in the race to succeed Wendy Alexander as Labour's leader in Scotland.

Andy Kerr, the former health minister, said in a newspaper interview yesterday that he wanted to see the council tax scrapped.

"I would immediately signal a long-term desire to replace the council tax," he said. "While people are paying so much of their monthly income in council tax in comparison to their mortgage or income tax, they feel as though the system is not working for them. That's largely a product of the way the tax has developed over the years, the way that revaluations have not taken place."

Mr Kerr said he wanted to reform the council tax first – abolishing water charges for pensioners and using the money the SNP has earmarked to introduce the local income tax to reduce bills further – before scrapping the tax altogether.

Iain Gray, the former enterprise minister, is committed to "replacing or reforming the council tax", but aides said he favoured a new property tax to replace the council tax, if that could be achieved.

Mr Gray said: "I believe in a property tax, but we should be open to other ideas including elements of land value tax too, if they are found to be workable."

But he added that something more immediate needed to be done in the short term, certainly including water charge abolition for pensioners and possible further cuts for council tax bills, too. "These are difficult and complex issues and we must spend the time as a party to get this right," he said.

A spokesman for Cathy Jamieson, the formerjustice minister and the other candidate for the Scottish Labour leadership, said: "She believes there needs to be a property-based tax, but there is still a lot of work needing to be done."

The spokesman said that Ms Jamieson wanted to move away from the council tax, but only if the Scottish Government could keep the £400 million in annual council tax benefit which comes from London. He said there would be no point moving to something different without making sure the council tax benefit money came, too. Ms Jamieson has drafted a bill to scrap water and sewerage charges for pensioners, and the spokesman said this could be done now, without waiting for any of the alternatives to the council tax to be introduced.

The decision of all three Labour leadership contenders to back a property-based replacement for the council tax is a distinct shift of position since the party tabled its submission to the Burt review into local government finance in 2005. At that time, Labour backed the council tax, with more bands at the top and bottom to make it fairer.

In his report, Sir Peter Burt, who chaired the review, recommended a property tax based on 1 per cent of each property's value, but that was flatly rejected by Labour.

With all three leadership candidates now backing a property tax – but not the council tax – the 1 per cent flat-tax recommended by Sir Peter may be back on the table again.

McLeish calls for more autonomy for next leader of Scottish Labour

FORMER first minister Henry McLeish reignited the debate over the Scottish Labour Party's ties to London yesterday when he called for the Scottish party to have much more autonomy.

Henry McLeish said it made "sense" for the Scottish Labour party to have more freedom. He spoke out a week after former finance minister Tom McCabe called for the new Scottish Labour leader to be handed "complete control" of the party.

Three candidates – former health minister Andy Kerr, ex-enterprise minister Iain Gray and former justice minister Cathy Jamieson – are currently bidding to become Labour's new Holyrood leader following Wendy Alexander's resignation.

The position they are fighting for is the leader of Labour in the Scottish Parliament. But yesterday Mr McLeish said it was essential for the new leader to be "more than a 'group leader' at Holyrood".

And he added: "The time has come for a partnership of equals between party and government north and south of the border. A more autonomous Scottish Labour Party with real political freedom, within a radically reformed Union, with a new relationship to UK Labour, makes sense in 2008."

He argued this could help to "counter the Scottish Nationalist threat" as well as allow the party north of the border to "develop new constitutional futures for Scotland without having to defer to Westminster".

Mr McLeish stated: "An autonomous Labour Party in Scotland, or something approaching that, could be better placed to offer an alternative to independence as a vision for the future, as well as providing effective opposition and advocacy on the policy front."

And he added: "The relationship between Scottish Labour and the UK/Westminster party needs to be reviewed and rewritten to reflect the new realities."

Mr Kerr, one of the three leadership contenders, has already said the position should be more influential and stronger.

Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP depute leader and Deputy First Minister said yesterday: "Labour are fighting like ferrets in a sack on whether or not the party in Scotland should be autonomous, and whether or not they support a referendum on Scottish independence."

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1

ThomasP,

11/08/2008 00:05:55
Labour have turned against Council Tax.

Will Labour receive the Council Tax Rebate? If so, then the Scottish National Party will also and then UK-Labour would have to admitt to being against the Nationalists all together.

GB will not last at all.

2

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 11/08/2008 00:09:03
Labours Scottish MP's are going to love this.
3

Vivas,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 00:20:21
I now await the pronouncement of some unknown middle-aged 48-inch waist self-important Scottish Labour MP who will have to put the 3 amigos back in their place...

I thought that 6 weeks of this election campaign would be dull as ditchwater but it's shaping up to be better than the Olympics LOL !
4

Rasco,

Inverness 11/08/2008 00:21:22
What say you AM2
5

Senga Jean,

11/08/2008 00:29:53
The biggest regret is that Scotland has to suffer these Unionist clowns. Independence NOW! BRING IT ON!
6

Arthur G,

Glasgow 11/08/2008 00:31:36
Ah the Labour party fraction in Scotland, still deluded, still in denial.

50 years of political interbreeding has left the gene pool hopelessly weakened and corrupted.

Has the penny not dropped with anyone in the Labour party clique in Scotland, especially in the West of Scotland Labour Establishment (Celtic Park Branch), yet?

Even if WOSLE 'Scottish' Labour were to throw off the London shackles, adopt 'socialism' and rout out the 'sectarian' elements that, for example, denied anyone other than an Roman Catholic the position of Lord Provost of Glasgow for over thirty years, the party would still have to spend a generation in the political desert of opposition.
If, though, as seems, likely the Scottish fraction of the party cannot 'square the circle' with its Westminster masters then it is truly finished as a political force in Scotland.

Here is a suggestion for Andy, Ian and Cathy, if you really have the interests of Scotland and its people at heart, rather than merely wanting to keep your noses in the trough, then demand the creation of a truly independent and autonomous Scottish Labour party.
7

SlyFifer,

Somewhere west of Scotland 11/08/2008 00:33:01
These buffoons will never learn. Yes, scrap the council tax by all means and the sooner the better. Don't under any circumstances replace it with a property tax as we would end up where we started with the rates all over again, tried and failed, just like the Labour government, tried and failed. Except some of them have still to be charged and then tried.
In this computer age the fairest system proposed to date is the LIT by the SNP. Based on the ability to pay, what an existentialist concept.
8

Tris,

11/08/2008 00:58:31

They want rid of the Council Tax.....

Not an idea of how to do it though.....

Someone in Labour must have taken 10 minutes out of filling in their expenses claim, and heard that the people liked the idea of another form of taxation.

I hope they are aware of the £400,000,000 they will lose in Council Tax Rebates from Westminster. I'm sure they will ahve taken that into consideration.
9

walter,

11/08/2008 01:00:51
The nats have been slagging off Labour for staying with the CT, now they say they will change it the nats are slagging them off.
When the SNP have a change of policy then it is well done for listening so surely they should be congratulating Labour for listening.

#1 The government has said if there is no CT then there is no CTB, they did not say if the SNP get rid of CT there is no CTB but if any other party get rid of it they will get the CTB.

#8 The LIT is not based on the ability to pay it is based on having a taxable income.
It does not matter how much a household or an individual receives on a non taxable income they will not pay LIT.

Lastly since this article is about Labour and not the indiscretions of the SNP I suppose there will not be a thousand of the same derogatory post causing it to be closed down.
10

democracy,

Scottish Borders 11/08/2008 01:01:58
They had 8yrs to fight for Scotland and her people and now that they are out of power and in opposition, are now squabbling for leadership of the party.

New Labour are now looking for more autonomy from the London party to achieve a footing that the SNP have ALWAYS had, which is independence of mind from Westminster for the benefit of the Scottish people.

So, what does that tell all the electorate about what is going on here? Just think about it for a moment, take a step back and have a good look!

Yes, you've got it! They are trying to achieve what they did at the 1997 UK election, when they stole the centre ground and Tory clothes to win the election.

They are now trying the same thing in Scotland, to appear more palatable to the the Scottish electorate and trying to show that they are just as Scottish as the SNP with independence of mind from Westminster.

I am proud to say to New Labour that your pathetic attempt at subterfuge and clandestine politics are falling on astute ears!!
11

somerferg,

perth 11/08/2008 01:06:53

The ONLY thing that the monkeys with red rosettes are listening to is their bosses in London giving them a hiding for losing to the SNP. Oh dear everything that comes out from their mouths now sounds more and more desperate. Still hoping that the uber check out chic gets the top job - what a giggle - bendy wendy was bad enough!
12

,

11/08/2008 01:07:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
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13

Wisnaeme,

11/08/2008 01:08:07

Aye, Labour have lost the plot, no doubt about that.

... and they've mair reverse gears than an Itie tank as weel, by the way.
.
14

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 02:14:56
Oh wow! A story that you can comment on after 2 am. Musn't be critical of the SNP or their free-speech hating cult members.
15

Willie Macleod,

Wick 11/08/2008 03:41:00
#16 Scouting Ford If it is you Mcpravda blog was good at the start. It was somewhere to go for a different take on newspaper forums

I like AM2's site it is good to have blogs and sites that are talking about what is said on these threads.

Unionist Nationalist blogs and sites are all welcome.

I have tried the Cybernatcentral the link does not work.
Willie
16

henrymanchester,

UK 11/08/2008 03:43:41
You see?

Vote for one of the main parties and you shall have a shiny shilling...
17

terry osser,

morden 11/08/2008 04:20:00
if you have unearned income eg dividends rents exempt?

bring back poll tax at say £200 per person who has an income of any sort
18

Phillip,

11/08/2008 04:23:45
And I thought there would be pause in Labour light speed U-Turns once Wendy was out. At this rate NuLabour is starting to look like a Whirling Dervish.
19

donald,

glasgow 11/08/2008 06:05:12
Nice photie of the Three Stooges.

Wonder what made them suddenly change their minds? X
Could there be an election in the air?

Three blind mice.
Three blind mice
See how they run
They all ran away
From Salmond's strife
When he cut off their tails
With an East End Glasgow knife.
Three blind mice.
20

,

11/08/2008 06:05:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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21

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 06:16:41
What I love about Britain is that if you want to raise a family you can't afford to because the government took all your money off of you.

But I also love that if you don't give a f**k you can just have kids and the people who can't afford their own are forced to pay for other people's.

Good on the SNP for continuing Labour's good work.

If you are stupid and lazy why shouldn't you be allowed free stuff.
22

Guga II,

Rockall 11/08/2008 06:39:13
#27 & #28

Spoken like a true Tory.
23

Jimmy Le Pie,

11/08/2008 07:02:54
Well at least Ian Rankin and Comrade Broon are trying to save the Union.


Can we expect a new novel from Rankin, where Rebus signs himself out of the Priory and battles to save the Union, single-handedly from the evil LIT and the worlds #1 arch-villain Alex Salmond and his moll Nicola.
Rebus, who gets help from a secretive ex Ulster B Special secret agent, known only as AM2, who is licensed by the Queen, (God bless Her!) to bore people to death, battles his own demons (he's too fond of the Clan McPish, 3 year old) and the shadowy nationalist known only as Traquir and his gang of cybernats.
With the plot moving rapidly between the Hootsmon and the Herald this will be Rankin's greatest novel, despite Rebus topping himself, rather than reading another line of AM2's statistical drivel and Scotland gaining her independence.
Rankin then bu6gers off, to live in Switzerland, (like all good socialists) to avoid paying LIT.
24

tommy M,

11/08/2008 07:30:12
sad, sad newliebour are they now blatantly trying to steal SNP policies? Do they actually think we will fall for all that?
Question: Why didn't they replace council tax when they were in power if they are suddenly so against it?
What do you think AM2?
25

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

out ferritin 11/08/2008 07:32:18
observation:-Ferrits dont fight when they are in a sack.
Why have the SNP halfed (or totally done away with in some instances) student grants? I thought that they wanted to do away with student debt, yet their actions and policies will only lead to greater student debt,in fact that was the answer i got when i complained about my grant being halfed, "theres not a problem would you like a big loan to help you?"the SNP (STUDENT NO POUNDS party) really are a shower of chancers.
26

mike3,

Midlands 11/08/2008 07:32:36
Oil, gold, water and all that wind should be enough to make Scotland tax free.
27

McNasty,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 07:33:41
It is truly amazing the effect a Glasgow kiss has when dysfunctional Labour politicians well paid jobs are on the line.

I hope Darling Alastair will choke on his breakfast this morning.
28

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 11/08/2008 07:44:59
Funny how the three stooges abandon their 'principles' to save their skins.
29

,

11/08/2008 07:51:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
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30

mr angry,

ayrshire 11/08/2008 07:54:32
Two minutes after they are elected , there will be another u-turn as the numpty get their orders from London. This is just posturing between 3 useless idiots.

#37 you should resume your medication , its badly needed
31

,

11/08/2008 07:56:47
Comment Removed By Administrator
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32

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 07:58:19
38 Mr Angry

I presume you "work" for the cooncil then?

Busy day of surfing the web ahead? Or have they removed your internet access because you can't be trusted to work unsupervised?
33

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 07:58:59
How are the SNP going to solve the pension problem with LIT?

Or are we just going to have to pay 7p in the pound?
34

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 08:01:24
Council "workers" average salary is much higher than the provate sectors.

Guess which group are striking over pay?

How are the SNP going to deal with these lazy f**kers under LIT?

You can't just change the name of something to make it better, I know the SNP have done so, but they need to stop the waste.
35

,

11/08/2008 08:06:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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36

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 08:11:55
44 Angus

How does the LIT deal with Scotland's public sector/clients-of-the-state?

Form filling, inneficiency, administration, collections, pointless meetings and permanently investigating your own mistakes is not something Scotland can export.

The SNP can only deliver LIT if they start sacking cooncil "workers".
37

carrottop,

Dumfries 11/08/2008 08:26:19
Change of mind just shows that Labour never knew what they were doing and still dont. Very easy to use hindsight when making policy.
The SNP have more of their finger on the pulse of the people and can get there before or in time with public opinion, Labour just try to use some spin after the obvious is apparent to bring themselves into line.
38

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 11/08/2008 08:30:59
Finally.
39

Climate change is a fraud,

11/08/2008 08:36:15
Lib-Lab-Con-SNP socialists won't be happy until all private property is abolished and we're all living in Soviet style concrete tower blocks.
40

walter,

11/08/2008 08:52:08
#18
Do you think it is beyond the wit of the authorities to Levy a charge on those who's legal earnings (disclosed to the taxman are derived from interest, shares and so-on?

I have not seen nor heard anything or anyone stating in the SNPs version of LIT that those with non taxable incomes will have a levy charged on that income.

do you imagine that there will be no upper threshold?

Again I have not seen nor heard anything stating such,
Maybe you can inform me of where this has been stated officially as this being the way it will work.
At the same time you could maybe say just what this other tax will be called since it will not be part of the 3p added on to the income taxed £.
Well I am at it and you seem to know so much about how this nationally collected local tax works maybe you can explain just how this tax will be distributed.
41

walter,

11/08/2008 08:52:46
#18
Do you think it is beyond the wit of the authorities to Levy a charge on those who's legal earnings (disclosed to the taxman are derived from interest, shares and so-on?

I have not seen nor heard anything or anyone stating in the SNPs version of LIT that those with non taxable incomes will have a levy charged on that income.

do you imagine that there will be no upper threshold?

Again I have not seen nor heard anything stating such,
Maybe you can inform me of where this has been stated officially as this being the way it will work.
At the same time you could maybe say just what this other tax will be called since it will not be part of the 3p added on to the income taxed £.
Well I am at it and you seem to know so much about how this nationally collected local tax works maybe you can explain just how this tax will be distributed.
42

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 11/08/2008 09:27:45
Fine words butter no parsnips. These brain-dead Labour apparatchiks may SAY they want to get rid of Council tax - but it is that tax which keeps their trough filled and their gold-plated pensions swelling. Labour has created a 'client-state' in Scotland under which 51% of the work-force is employed by the state or local government. More than half of your council tax goes just to service the pensions of the client-state jobsworths and the vast numbers of benefit claimants.

They will never cut the council tax - because thjey would have to halve their own salaries and ditch the bags of pension loot.
Thieves and liars to a man. And why is McLeish popping up all the time these days? The man was forced to resign after STEALING MONEY from the taxpayer for years in the rent-dodge he and his wife were playing over in Fife. He should be in jail - instead he's enjoying a £100,000 pension every year for the rest of his life - paid for by your council tax. The pugs are guzzling in the trough.
43

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 11/08/2008 09:28:19
Fine words butter no parsnips. These brain-dead Labour apparatchiks may SAY they want to get rid of Council tax - but it is that tax which keeps their trough filled and their gold-plated pensions swelling. Labour has created a 'client-state' in Scotland under which 51% of the work-force is employed by the state or local government. More than half of your council tax goes just to service the pensions of the client-state jobsworths and the vast numbers of benefit claimants.

They will never cut the council tax - because thjey would have to halve their own salaries and ditch the bags of pension loot.
Thieves and liars to a man. And why is McLeish popping up all the time these days? The man was forced to resign after STEALING MONEY from the taxpayer for years in the rent-dodge he and his wife were playing over in Fife. He should be in jail - instead he's enjoying a £100,000 pension every year for the rest of his life - paid for by your council tax. The pigs are guzzling in the trough.
44

shivago8,

livingston 11/08/2008 09:35:34
They are frightened to do anything with the council tax.

All the time they were in power they kept telling me each year that their review on the tax was still ongoing..
Wimps,the lot of them/

Please dont let them near anything
45

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 11/08/2008 09:45:05
I wish this scumbag would b@gger off.
46

Doh,

11/08/2008 09:45:41
If Labour change the Council Tax then the Council Tax Rebate will no longer be payable. This will leave a £400M hole in Scottish finances.

Reckless, ill though out, probably illegal and a tremendous disincentive to hard working families.
47

Rab haw,

11/08/2008 10:31:54
Read red read red its a red letter day
48

,

11/08/2008 10:37:21
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49

,

11/08/2008 10:37:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
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50

,

11/08/2008 10:37:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
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51

Lock,

11/08/2008 10:38:49
Define fair.
52

Thistledhu,

Fife 11/08/2008 10:48:31
before any change to the council tax is made changes to the benifits system has to be made we now have a sub culture where regardless of the availibilty of work there are those who hae not and will not seek work.
Many openly admit they would be worse off working
53

Jonesy,

Glasgae 11/08/2008 10:58:21
What's all the problem about? When did anyone within the labour party ever have an ounce of brain and capable of thought. And by the way how many of the protesters voted for these incompetent clowns in the first place?
54

Davie from Irvine,

11/08/2008 11:29:12
What is going on ?
55

Morbo,

11/08/2008 11:37:07
Freedom of speach is over-rated anyway.
56

Wee Beardie,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 11:40:55
Can the Administrator please advise us, by email if necessary, why comments 47 to 1000 have been removed?
57

Wee Beardie,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 11:42:24
Would the Administer please advise, by email, why comments 47 to 1000 have been removed?
58

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 11:44:53
At last the Labour Party in Scotland is finally using its collective intellect in an attempt to find an acceptable alternative to the Council Tax, instead of allowing the Nationalists to set the political agenda.

In the 1980s, the Scots may have fought the discredited Community Charge(POLL TAX)tooth and nail in a widespread campaign of civil disobedience but let us not forget that it was only on the eve of its introduction in England and Wales that the Tories ditched it.

After massive protests, culminating in one of the most violent riots ever seen in London, the Tories abandoned this iniquitous form of local taxation! However, in their haste to replace it with the Council Tax they still refused to place an equal burden on homes across the board in an attempt to protect their supporters!
59

Luke Skywalker,

United Kingdom 11/08/2008 12:22:50
Any form of property tax is not based on an ability to pay. Much as it grieves me to concur with the SNP, some form of local income tax is the only fair way to go. The only thing is that the SNP is showing its incompetence by suggesting 3%. Clearly can't be done. Try some simple arithmetic.

Rules - under LVT does a tenant pay?
60

Bruce wn,

Midlothian 11/08/2008 12:30:33
Council Tax to Property Tax it would still be taxation without representation.The only way is local income tax why not face up to it, there is no other way.
61

Guga II,

Rockall 11/08/2008 12:47:29
Why can't the Hootsmon IT staff just block the IP of the multi-posting clown?
62

Alec M,

Falkirk 11/08/2008 12:57:19
Well done, Administrator, for removing (probably obscene) repetitive posts.

Is it not possible to programme the computer at Hootsmon Towers to refuse such posts automatically?
63

brusque,

Inverness 11/08/2008 12:57:31
George Foulkes must be spluttering like an old steam engine!

I wonder what direction his planned get together with a few well-chosen old-schoolers, or "summit" as he grandly proclaimed, will take now that plotting against the SNP would also mean plotting against his own colleagues??

64

mascr2000,

Scotland 11/08/2008 13:00:52
I think that it is time the people of this country stopped behaving like some kind of slave to the system. Instead of debating what kind of tax we should or should not be paying, we should be questioning the very fundamentals of a system that rei=lies on tax collection as a means of generating income for the government. In this nominally christian country why do people not look to the bible and the actions of Jesus - he was against taxation, he encouraged the people not to pay taxes. In Islam taxation is rightly labeled "haram" - forbidden. Taxation is theft - I would like to quote here a short passage from an excellent essay on Jesus entitled "Jesus Of Nazareth Illegal-Tax Protestor".

It should be apparent to anyone that tax evasion, tax resistance, and wilful failure to file a tax return, are all in the category mala prohibitum. No one, except perhaps some rapacious people who depend for their welfare on the proceeds of taxation, believes it is evil or wrong for an individual to keep the fruits of his or her own labours. Indeed, in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus, instructing his disciples by parable, has his righteous protagonist in the story ask rhetorically, “Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me?”. (Mt 20:15) In the context of the parable, the unstated answer is obvious: “Of course you are”. Only when men enact perverse laws does benign behavior such as retaining one’s own property become a crime. But then, of course, the true criminals are the freedom-robbing legislators.
The act of collecting a tax involves taking someone’s property without his or her consent by means of force or coercion. It is patently malum inse, evil by its very nature. The act fits Wikipedia.s definition of the crime of theft like a glove. .In the criminal law theft (also known as stealing) is the wrongful taking of someone else’s property without that person’s freely given consent. Thus, it is self-evident that the only reason tax collectors do not g
65

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 14:23:15
WHY; AFTER ALL THESE YEARS of their sleaze,lying and corruption?
Can somone please with more experience please inform me ?
Regretfully to say; most off the contributors to these
forums have no conception (or clue)of the "pre-war"UK Utopia!
66

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 14:34:31
Why have these individuals taken so long to reveal their wonderful aspirations for the unfortunate in our society,who after all said and done, have been in control of the DIS-UNITED UK since 1997?
Please tell me?
67

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 14:36:34
Why have these individuals taken so long to reveal their wonderful aspirations for the unfortunate in our society,who after all said and done, have been in control of the DIS-UNITED UK since 1997?
Please tell me?
68

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 14:37:58
Why have these individuals taken so long to reveal their wonderful aspirations for the unfortunate in our society,who after all said and done, have been in control of the DIS-UNITED UK since 1997?
Please tell me?
69

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 14:41:55
Why have these individuals with the silly grins on their faces taken so long to reveal their wonderful aspirations for the unfortunate in our society,who after all said and done, have been in control of the DIS-UNITED UK since 1997?
Please tell me?
70

Resolutions,

11/08/2008 14:54:06
Surely there is some way to stop this maniac doing this?

What on earth do they hope to achieve by this? I am fed up trying to read comments and then getting a sea of red.
71

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 17:27:40
Did you know that Barbados has a small government that doesn't feel the need to Tax the begeebers out of their people AND they listen to their people (or the people are very virulent at voting them out!! (unlike the thicko's who can't see beyond voting labour regardless of how corrupt and incompetent they are!)) ...

The climate is better too ...

This country is going to go bust and it is going to drag alot of decent folk down with it.

There has never been a period in politics where there are so many fools in government at the same time. People have had revolutions in the past when their government has stopped functioning for the common good ....


72

steve52,

Kinfauns 11/08/2008 18:57:04
Ocht its only Hammish at it again. Still it goes to show what a move to be leader can do for ones opinion. Never one word about any alternative prior to this.
73

Climate change is a fraud,

11/08/2008 20:50:19
Make lazy, dole scrounging scum pay council tax.
74

snoozyowl,

Wales 11/08/2008 22:09:06
[Pity all that red stuff can't be deleted, too!]

The real problem with LIT, which seems a fairer system in principle, is the extension of the local tax base to those who traditionally have not paid. Working children at home, for one example. Working couples, for another. The amount will not be insignificant, someone on £20k per year will pay £50/month at 3% LIT. A family of four earners making £100k will pay £3000 between them, probably double their current amount. Still, it is a fairer system being related to the ability to pay. There are also many complications. How, for example, will the self-employed be dealt with? Estimated amounts for LIT? Corrections in arrears? And what about those who operate across the border? Say a plumber working 50% in Scotland and 50% in England, but resident in Scotland? And those non-Scots with second houses in Scotland? Will England, for example, operate LIT PAYE for Scotland in such cases? Finally, I wish you luck in keeping the $400m CT subsidy. The last thing Labour wants is LIT in England (makes many of their supporters pay more tax) and they will fight to eliminate this subsidy lest it encourage you Scots in your rebellious ways!
75

Papa? Nicole! Papa?,

12/08/2008 11:07:17
Whoah, who would have thought this topic would have been so interesting to get so many comments...

In other news, how about paying for the services you use? I have a big flat, but am one person. I don't create that much rubbish, don't use the schools, don't create much rubbish, much waste water etc, so how about I pay less than a family of a million who fill a bin in a day?

Is that too sensible? Paying for what you actually use?

 

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