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Congress and public fear US rescue plan

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Published Date: 24 September 2008
THE United States tottered closer to the edge of a massive credit crisis last night as Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, bluntly warned the US Congress that failure to pass the $700 billion (£380bn) bank bail-out would condemn the country to recession, unemployment and rising home repossessions.
He warned of a nationwide credit freeze in which neither businesses nor consumers could borrow money.

The administration is now in a stand-off with Congress as the mammoth rescue plan has left both Democrat and Republican politicians deeply uneasy
about the implications. And financial markets are anxious to see agreement before the House of Representatives adjourns on Friday and the Senate a week later for election campaigns.

House Democratic leader Steny Hoyer said "nobody is happy" about the bail-out request. And his Republican, counterpart, John Boehner, agreed: "Nobody wants to have to do this." He said he was hopeful of a quick agreement, despite withering criticism from conservative members of his party, some of whom likened the plan to socialism.

Wall Street continued to sag yesterday on the back of a 372-point plunge on Monday. Traders are fearful that the crisis on Wall Street is about to spread to retail banks across the US, forcing thousands of businesses to close because of non-availability of credit.

David Dietze, the chief investment officer of a New Jersey-based financial services group, said: "I just don't think the American public is sold. I think they are sceptical of the need and they are fearful of the cost. The scepticism is that this is going to help the Wall Street financiers and do nothing for the little guy, other than saddle them with a big tax bill."

While politicians are deeply uneasy over the speed at which this epochal deal is being pushed through and concern that any money from the Troubled Assets Relief Plan (TARP) is used for yet more bonuses for Wall Street's banking barons, there are deeper problems over how the bail-out will work. How will prices be set for a baffling range of hard-to-shift assets?

Amid such a hectic legislative rush, the veteran Wall Street commentator Ed Yardeni last night quoted the 19th-century German chancellor Otto von Bismarck: "Laws are like sausages. It is better not to see them being made."

Growing apprehension over the prospects of a worldwide recession sent shares plunging again across Asia, Europe and London. By the close the FTSE100 was down a further 100.14 or almost 2 per cent to 5136.12. But the dollar recovered a little, while oil prices fell back.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 September 2008 9:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 24/09/2008 01:32:57
Good article, Bill.

For the information of those who are trying to blame this whole mess on Bush, it is Congress that makes the laws.

The people most responsible for this mess are Senators Dodd and Schumer and Representative Barney Frank, all "Democrats" who collect millions in contributions from the large financial companies.
2

Carolyn 1,

24/09/2008 02:09:18
Enron was investigated for cooking the books, indited and jailed. The employees who lost everything received no cash except the satifaction of seeing them in jail. Enron didn't think a simple minded under-educated jury could understand the complexities of 'bookkeeping'; the average person balances his check book every week, of course we know when the books are cooked.

The FBI started the investigations today. The managers who fried the income figures to pillage Fannie and Freddie to earn their bonues are looking at jail time. Too bad it will take years before they see concrete cells.

3

SouthernGent,

24/09/2008 02:37:53
The entire financial mess had its origins in Fannie and Freddie. These problems have been known for quite some time. Following are two quotes, you be the judge.

"In 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie “continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,” he said. “We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk."

"What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was proposed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill would give a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets. But the bill didn’t become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn’t even get the Senate to vote on the matter."

This whole mess could have been avoided had the DEMOCRATS put their politics aside and voted for the good of the country. How dare them.
4

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 24/09/2008 03:19:00
How dare them is right.. Obviously..not country first.
5

MICHAEL WERNER,

USA-SACRAMENTO, CA 24/09/2008 04:20:55
THIS IS SENT BY THE WERNER FAMILY IN PROTEST OF BUSH'S BLANK CHECK TO FIX WALL STREET WHICH WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM FOR MAIN STREET AMERICA. THIS MEANS THE PROBLEM WOULD STILL EXIST FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHILE CONGRESS PAYS OFF WALL STREETS MISTAKES WITH TAX PAYERS' MONEY. I DON'T BELIEVE IN PAYING HIGH BONUSES TO CEO ETC WHO DID NOT DO THEIR JOBS. THE DEAL EVEN HAD A STANCE TO AVOID REVIEW OF THIS BAIL OUT BU JUDGES ETC. THIS BILL SHOULD NOT BAIL OUT WALL STREET, BUT IT SHOULD ADDRESS U.S. CITIZENS MORTGAGE CRISIS. IT IS SHAMEFUL THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WOULD BE SO BOLD TO THINK THAT AMERICANS ARE NOT SMARTER THEN TO OK AN UNSUPERVISED TRILLION OF DOLLARS BLANK CHECK. WE ARE DEEPLY OFFENDED BY THIS BILL. I WAS GLAD TO HEAR THAT THE FEDS ARE LOOKING INTO PREVIOUS BAIL OUTS!

WE HIGHLY SUPPORT IMMIGRATION VERIFICATION BY E-VERIFY SOFTWARE. WITH OUR OPEN BOARDERS, WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE ANY MORE AND LET IN JUST ANYONE.

I SAW A ISSUE IN TIMES MAGAZINE ABOUT USING ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO SAVE OIL AND STOP SMOG. MY EXPERIENCE DRIVING A ELECTRIC FORD PICKUP WAS THAT IT WAS VERY QUITE WITHOUT A GAS MOTOR AND DROVE WELL.

UNFORTUNATELY, I WAS LIMITED ON MILEAGE BY THE VEHICLE'S BATTERY. I HAD TO MAKE SURE I HAD ENOUGH OF A BATTERY CHARGE TO GET BACK HOME. EVEN WHEN I GOT HOME, IT TOOK HOURS TO CHARGE UP THE VEHICLE'S BATTERY. WHAT WOULD WE DO IF WE HAD CHARGING STATIONS IF THE BATTERY TAKES HOURS TO CHARGE? MAYBE WE NEED TO SETUP NATURAL GAS STATIONS AND LOOK TO A NATURAL GAS HYBRID. ISN'T THIS A LEAST POSSIBLE? WE NEED TO DRILL FOR BOTH NATURAL GAS AND OUR OWN OIL NEEDS, AND WE NEED TO DRILL NOW. WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO KEEP SENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OVER SEAS FOR OIL, WARS, AND REBUILDING OTHER COUNTRY'S INFRASTRUCTURE.

MICHAEL WERNER

6

mike - across the pond,

werner 24/09/2008 05:47:00
first off, put your BDS to rest...

bush doest MAKE the law, it will be CONGRESS who does that...

secondly CONGRESS is putting more crud in the bill than you or I can afford... trying to bail out people who cant afford the loans they are in... this only postpones the inevitable.

Third, are you old enough to remember the RTC from the late 80's?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_Trust_Corporation

the federal government liquidated almost 400 billion in assets from "failing" Savings&Loans... this would double that, but that was 20 years ago... WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE!!!! which makes what the dems have done in the last 5 years ABSOLUTELY UNCONSCIONABLE!!!!

its not like this is something new the government is doing....

electric, if you really owned an electric car, under current "best technologies", there are actually at LEAST a DOZEN 12v car batteries in a purely electric "car"... not just 1... and hot charging is NOT the answer, even with the best technologies, the "accepted" answer is to standardize the physical battery configuration and swap battery packs at "filling/recharging" stations.

natural gas is a GREAT idea... but the government (congress) needs to GET OUT OF OUR WAY....
7

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 24/09/2008 06:40:32
I see McCain just a short time ago was lauding how deregulating the financial system had put the US "economy" in great shape.

He's now eating his words. He definitely can't be trusted with the oval office.
8

Itchy,

24/09/2008 07:04:50
#7 regulation is the problem, not the solution.

"bluntly warned the US Congress that failure to pass the $700 billion (£380bn) bank bail-out would condemn the country to recession, unemployment and rising home repossessions"

Wrong. There should be no bailout. There is no such thing as a free lunch and this interventionist measure will be counterproductive.
9

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 24/09/2008 07:53:34
#8

"#7 regulation is the problem, not the solution"

Explain yourself as economies that are healthy are regulated appropriately.
10

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/09/2008 10:22:39
# 5 Michael Werner

Stop shouting at us! We get the message. Turn off your caps lock key.

Most of us ignore postings that are all caps so your post is counter-productive and nobody will read it.

Wake up, smell the coffee, and turn off your caps key.
11

Kelvino,

Kinderhook Creek, NY 24/09/2008 11:08:36
Insightful article by George Will re: McCain. . . .

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will092308.php3
12

Kelvino,

Prosperity's End, NY 24/09/2008 11:24:05
A simple but direct view from a LEFT-WING source re: the "bailout:" I think that many of us can agree on several points here:

http://www.alternet.org/story/99979/five_dangerous%2C_disastrous_things_about_the_proposed_bailout_and_what_you_can_do_to_help_stop_it/

How about that GEORGE WILL article (above) ?
Kinda' makes one think. . . . .
13

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/09/2008 11:48:12
This bailout is an ill-considered and uneconomical recapitalisation of the US banking system:

* Paper losses that: will be taken over are guaranteed. It means that not only will US banks get back their investment but they will also get back any gains made -ie they will be able to claim back some sort of profit based on the paper losses.

* Taxpayers gain nothing from the package.

* There is no regulatory reform as part of the package.

* There is no admission that deleveraging is inevitable. This plan seems to be a desperate attempt to keep bad debt from being written down. Yet the honest truth is that a lot of these "assets" won't ever be repaid by debtors.

Ultimately, there seems to be no intention to solve the underlying problem - that the financial services industry, through the debt culture, has at an unsustainable size.
14

Carolyn 1,

24/09/2008 12:00:21
@11
A lot of people want Cox and his buddies sacked, not just McCain. That George Will doesn't agree? As if anyone with a 401K cared what a TV pundit thinks.

Hagel, put up bill S 190 warning about the bad bookkeeping of these crooks, McCain co-sponsored it, and the democrats shot it down. They would not even allow it to go to the floor for a a vote????
Why? Because N'Obama and Clinton were raking in piles of donations from the crooks.

(Now proclaimed to the the bill that would have prevented the financial meltdown.)
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-190
15

Carolyn 1,

24/09/2008 12:03:09
@12
Theresa Heinze, the heiress and wife of ex presidential loser John Kerry donates heavily to alternet.- the source of the 'news article' you linked.
And, Theresa lost at least $500,000. on AIG her investment alone.

As for the plans to redistribute the wealth of the United States, I agree that Heinze, Kerry, Obama and Biden want a redistribution of wealth, but they want to lead and control the wealth, not be victimized losers of it.
Vote Democrat and save the Heinze and Kennedy fortunes!
16

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

24/09/2008 12:14:03
The more I read about this bailout the more I believe that it is a sticking plaster solution to the more fundamental problems.

This won't prevent another sub-prime credit crisis - in fact it might actually encourage it as firms realise that the Fed will always bail them out.
17

Number 6,

Germany 24/09/2008 12:18:28
What a clueless bunch of greed driven morons.
18

Carolyn 1,

24/09/2008 12:46:59
@16
You're right on that.
If you do the math, and estimate the number of people, the number and amounts of the mortgages 'in question' and add it up, no way does it total 700 billion.

Basic math seems to indicate the money thirsty sharks on wall street still get the future PROFITS of INTEREST, the high and inflated and artificial value of untold property to 'fudge' as a 'bookkeeping asset' and stay in business to perpetuate their own existence.

Whereas if the mortgage holders and the banks took a loss, and rewrote the mortgage loans at the true value, the mess would be over and not on the back of the working middle class who did no wrong.
19

Kelvino,

Not Brooklyn, NY 24/09/2008 13:40:24
Very happy to see that public wisdom appears to be prevailing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303667_pf.html
20

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 24/09/2008 13:49:14
The problem, as I understand it, is largely due to legislation passed 9 years ago, spearheaded by PHIL GRAMM (he was a senator from Texas) called The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act. This opened the gate to practices on Wall Street that have caused this meltdown. PHIL GRAMM was JOHN MCCAIN'S financial advisor and some might recall a statement he made several months ago about the economic crisis in this country being just psychological ... all in our minds! After he made that statement, McCain distanced himself from Gramm, but some are guessing Gramm will become the Treasury Secretary
Did you hear that one of McxCain's Financial Advisors is Carly Fiorina who was fired by HP. John McCain thought she had done a great job there and was surprised that she left the Company with a $42 million bonus. Apparently he doesn't vet his spokespeople any better than he vets his VP.
21

Carolyn 1,

24/09/2008 14:06:01
@ 20
Carly Fiona? Carly Fiona failed to cook the books so that HP would appear more profitable. That's a good thing where I live.

The Securities and Exchange Commission's chief accountant told disgraced Fannie Mae chief Franklin Raines that Fannie's position on the relevant accounting issue was not even ``on the page'' of allowable interpretations. "

???Not even on the page of ALLOWABLE INTERPRETATIONS... and it was given a free pass????

Greenspan warned the congress. The Senate Banking Committee took action. A quote: January 26, 2005:
"What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets."

The democrats stopped the bill 7/28/2005 and DID NOTHING.
NOTHING.
The rest is history as we watch the impending collapse of the economy.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:SN00190:@@@P
22

ebbi,

spain 24/09/2008 14:09:46
either way usa will be bankrupt.americans need just one default on servicing these massive debts for the dollar to crash to zero value and that would cause a disaster.
it is about time for the world to come to terms with the absence of usa from global markets since usa has been living on credit for the past sixty years.any of the creditors ie,china start withdrawing funds or changing us dollar to other currencies usa will have had it.usa in on the brink of total collapse and none of these clowns and their packages will save usa.
federal reserve has been the root of usa problems since its inception in 1913.its a private bank that loans to the us government and its private shareholders thrive on these loans handsomely.
23

Laurette,

Carlsbad, California 24/09/2008 14:17:38
Fiorina Called the Outsourcing of American Jobs ‘Right Shoring.’ As HP CEO, Fiorina made comments in Washington alongside Intel’s CEO that “drew an unusually strong reaction from workers, who suggested the pair forfeit their own highly paid jobs to Chinese or Russian executives working for a quarter of their pay.” Fiorina said that “there is no job that is America’s God-given right anymore” and had also said called what is generally referred to as “offshoring,” the outsourcing of jobs to cheaper labor centers overseas, as “right- shoring.” [San Francisco Chronicle, 1/9/04; Investors Business Daily,
In Promoting Outsourcing, Fiorina Said U.S. Cant Be Distracted by ‘Short Term Employment Concerns.’
Fiorina Defended Outsourcing of Technology Jobs, Said No Job Is “America’s God-Given Right.” “There is no job that is America’s God-given right anymore,” said Carly Fiorina in 2004, chief executive for Hewlett-Packard Co, according to the AP.
24

SouthernGent,

24/09/2008 14:25:44
#20
"This opened the gate to practices on Wall Street that have caused this meltdown."

Obviously, you don't understand it. The mess began in the Clinton administration by requiring/allowing Fannie and Freddie to give mortgages to people that they knew could not afford them. These mortgages were packaged and sold all over the world. Wall St compounded the problem, but certainly didn't cause it. Without these mortgages, Wall St would not have had toxic investments to sell. The democrats failed with Fannie and Freddie and then failed to correct the problem when they had the chance in 2005. And now they have controlled Congree for the past 2 years and still done nothing. And now you want to let them control your checkbook for another 4 years?
25

Laurette,

Carlabad, California 24/09/2008 14:26:34
#21 Carolyn: A little more about Fiorina, who you apparently admire:
Fiorina Laid Off 20,000 Workers And H-P’s Stock Fell By Half While She Was CEO.” “Her poise and freshness have been offset at times by her inexperience and her contentious tenure at HP, during which she cut more than 20,000 jobs and the venerable technology company’s stock fell by nearly half.” [Los Angeles Times, 8/6/08, latimes.com]
Fiorina Received $42 Million Severance Package >From HP. After being “spectacularly” fired from Hewlett-Packard, Fiorina was awarded a severance package originally valued at $21 million, which “disgusted” corporate governance advocates at the time, but then The New York Times reported that the company also granted stock options and holdings valued at another $21.1 million, making her total a severance package of $42 million. Federal filings at the time indicated that HP helped Ms. Fiorina financially with her mortgage, relocation expenses, and taxes to the tune of 1.6 million between 1999 and 2003. [The New York Times, 6/6/08, nytimes.com; Associated Press, 2/9/05; Hewlett-Packard Proxy Statements (1999-2005); Securities and Exchange Commission, accessed 3/25/08; The New York Times, 2/12/05]
WP: Fiorina Fired After “Rocky” Tenure Marked By Scandal. “Fiorina’s claim to fame was 5 1/2 rocky years at Hewlett-Packard, where she battled the company’s founding families to push forward with a $19 billion purchase of Compaq Computer in 2002, then failed to create the profitable computer giant she had promised. In February 2005, she was publicly ousted by HP’s board, but not before she ordered the first of a series of leak investigations that would spin into a highly publicized scandal.” [Washington Post, 4/2/08]
H-P’s Stock Rose 11 Percent After Word Of Fiorina’s Ouster Spread. “H-P’s stock, which has gone nowhere for two years and is down two-thirds from its peak in 2000, rose almost 7 percent after earlier soaring almost 11 percent on the news of her ouster.” [Associat
26

Kelvino,

The Empire State 24/09/2008 14:57:32
OOPS !

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/24/america/w24davis.php
27

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 24/09/2008 15:03:32
"WASHINGTON — One of the giant mortgage companies at the heart of the credit crisis paid $15,000 a month from the end of 2005 through last month to a firm owned by Senator John McCain’s campaign manager, according to two people with direct knowledge of the arrangement.
The disclosure undercuts a remark by Mr. McCain on Sunday night that the campaign manager, Rick Davis, had had no involvement with the company for the last several years."
New York Times 24 September 2008.

28

mike - across the pond,

so laurette.... 24/09/2008 15:16:15
you are taking McCain to the lashing post over Carly fiorina...

but giving Obama the pass over Franklin Raines? Franklin Raines who is squarely in the middle of this whole mess having ridden freddie mac right into the ground?

WHAAAAT?
29

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 24/09/2008 15:40:28
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac emerged as issues in the presidential race last week because of turmoil in the financial markets. In a radio address from Green Bay, Wis., on Saturday, McCain blamed the companies and their political clout for creating the housing mess now roiling Wall Street. "At the center of the problem were the lobbyists, politicians and bureaucrats who succeeded in persuading Congress and the administration to ignore the festering problems at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,'' he said. "Using money and influence, they prevented reforms that would have curbed their power and limited their ability to damage our economy. And now, as ever, the American taxpayers are left to pay the price for Washington's failure.''

I just can't picture any way of wiggling out of that. He is talking in those sentences about his own campaign manager! "
Guardian 23 september 2008.


30

Kelvino,

- NY 24/09/2008 16:22:52
"While the middle class collapses, the richest people in this country have made out like bandits and have not had it so good since the 1920s. The top 1 % percent now earn more money than the bottom 50 % of Americans, and the top 1 % own more wealth than the bottom 90 % The wealthiest 400 people in our country saw their wealth increase by $670 billion while Bush has been president. In the midst of all of this, Bush lowered taxes on the very rich so that they are paying lower income tax rates than teachers, police officers or nurses."

"Now, having mismanaged the economy for eight years as well as having lied about our situation by continually insisting, “The fundamentals of our economy are strong,” the Bush administration, six weeks before an election, wants the middle class of this country to spend many hundreds of billions on a bailout. The wealthiest people, who have benefited from Bush’s policies and are in the best position to pay, are being asked for no sacrifice at all. This is absurd. This is the most extreme example that I can recall of socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor."

Quoted from Senator Bernie Sanders - http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=303313


Read this a few times and let the distribution of assets sink in. . . .

The TOP 1% owns MORE than the BOTTOM 90% ! ! !

Are they "worth" more than we are ? Work harder ?
Think smarter ? WHAT ?

31

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA: for more War VOTE McCain 24/09/2008 17:38:59
5
MICHAEL WERNER,
USA-SACRAMENTO,

Hey dude click off Ur Caps Lock. It gives us all a head ache.

Fiorina was sacked from HP but given $40+ million on her way out the door.

After she had fired 20,000 workers .

Like who is in a recession not Fiorina but all those 20,000 workers who lost their jobs . That is a recession dudes , when U lose u job.

But like all rabid republicans does Fiorina give a rat' ass about the workers .. NO
Fiorina, home in Northern Calif. with electronic surveillance and arm guards on the property. . Like what is this Rep.wimp scared of.

Its shroom time dudes

As U stumble through life "keep it simple"

GC

GC
32

SouthernGent,

24/09/2008 18:27:50
Since your so worried about the "little guy", explain to me who you think will bear the brunt of Obama's taxes.

Who do you think will pay the increased Corporation tax?

How about the capital gains tax?

Investment tax?

Have you swallowed the "95% of americans tax cut" yet? Yet if you have a clue at all, you will see that that 95% will pay a good chunk of the above mentioned tax increases. Taxes wrapped in different boxes are still taxes, yet too many here a drinking the cool-aid and think Obama is only taxing the rich. Pleaseeeee!
33

Reader11722,

NY, NY 24/09/2008 18:53:32
This is treason as the US taxpayer is expected to bail out zionist Goldman Sachs. This disgraceful bailout, yet another infringement on our rights by the gov't. Add it to the ever-growing list of violations:
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon, Wikipedia and Facebook.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing at Gitmo.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting illegal wars without declaration.
Impeach them all (both parties) and save this great country.
Last link (unless Google Books caves to the gov't and drops the title):
http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000083883
34

Kelvino,

New York 24/09/2008 19:54:51
The next time we elect a swaggering mental cripple to the White House, what do we do ?

We don't have a "vote of no confidence" here in the USA.

What if we find ourselves with another "village idiot?"



35

Kelvino,

New York 24/09/2008 20:02:30
Just appearing on Drudge: McCain wants to delay first debate with Obama. . .

Economic wisdom from a VP candidate: (VIDEO)

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/24/couricandco/entry4474691.shtml
36

SouthernGent,

24/09/2008 20:46:33
Actually, we have an impeachment process. And lo and behold the House and Senate are controlled by the democrats. Any action out of them in the last 2 years??? Didn't think so. So climb on down from your high horse.
37

Kelvino,

NY 24/09/2008 20:56:38
Do you wish the Democrats to start an impeachment process then ? Many are for it, as you know . . .
my "high horse" included ! I'd actually like to see criminal charges. . . .one can always hope !


38

SouthernGent,

24/09/2008 21:07:35
My guess is they (democrats) are all fluff, and don't have the kahunas. But their fluff sure buys a lot of votes.
39

Kelvino,

NY 24/09/2008 21:13:29
All in all, things could be worse. . . .

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=9877699&ch=4226714&src=news
40

Kelvino,

- NY 24/09/2008 21:35:49
McCain trying to score political "high ground" in calling for debate and advertising suspension. . . .

Given his falling numbers, I suppose that it's worth a try, but I don't think that the public will buy it.

Suspension of the debate and TV ads does NOT translate to "Patriotic American" nor "Economic Expert."

My first impression is that he's runnin' scared !




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26872907/
41

Kelvino,

- Not East Hampton, NY 24/09/2008 22:27:48
If you like McCain's proposed suspension of the upcoming presidential debate. . . . .
then you will LOVE the suspension of the entire election, as the economy gets progressively worse.

Stranger things have happened . . . . .

Oh, that Karl, he's such a clever guy !

42

mike - across the pond,

kelvino.... 24/09/2008 22:40:13
criminal charges.... lol, you MIGHT want to take a few moments to READ THE CONSTITUTION before you go shooting off your "mouth" any more... lol

you know what I like even more... how BO and his cronies who have been running FROM McCain debates for the last 4 months, all the sudden THIS is the most important thing on the schedule...

what I would beware of if I were BO, if the debate schedule gets compressed, BO will not have time to recover from the butt-kicking he has been running from for the last 4 months
43

Kelvino,

NY 24/09/2008 22:45:46
Time will tell . . . .glad that I struck a nerve, as usual.
44

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 24/09/2008 23:22:54
"McCain wants to delay first debate with Obama"

Cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck cluck..........
45

Taz,

The Land of the Free. 24/09/2008 23:24:25
Let the Market, Banks, (especially the foreign ones)and those who hoped to cash in on the rising equity on a house they could not afford, crash and burn. It will sort its self out. Just don't finance their greed with MY taxes please. Bush is acting like a darn Socialist.
46

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.... 24/09/2008 23:33:47
theres LOTS of clucking...

you just didnt catch that its coming from OBAMA...

McCain challenged BO to TEN debates...

BO ran from that suggestion like he was on fire....
47

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 24/09/2008 23:39:41
#46

Your posts are getting more desperate as your ammunition runs out.
48

SouthernGent,

25/09/2008 00:17:05
Those 10 debates were supposed to be "town hall" style, which means Obama would not have a telepromter. Like Mike said, he nixed that pretty quick.
49

mike - across the pond,

lhtt.... 25/09/2008 00:18:40
funny what you think of as "truth"

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/04/mccain_challenges_obama_to_10.html?hpid=topnews

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/04/mccain.town.hall/index.html

and from the tank....
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/13/1139057.aspx

what do you think BO was afraid of?
50

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 02:20:04
This whole problem arises from the ability of banks to lend out imaginary money and charge interest on it.
"Fractional Reserve" lending.
It's the result of a basic problem of the banking system in general.
See the excellent documentary "The Money Masters" on Google Video........

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=5uTaSL-kCoO2iAKz9biUCw&q=money+masters
51

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 25/09/2008 02:33:01
The "credit crunch" is a deliberate "shearing" of the public and consolidation of wealth by the bankers.
It is the exchanging of debt based "funny money" for real assets.

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money ."
(Josiah Stamp, former director of the Bank of England)

 

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