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Expenses fraud MPs face up to year in jail

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Published Date: 24 June 2009
ERRANT MPs could face up to a year in prison under tough measures unveiled to clean up parliament.
The House of Commons heard yesterday that new criminal offences were to be created.

MPs could face an unlimited fine or 12 months in prison for purposely making a false expense claim.

Anyone caught failing to register outside interests and receiving money to lobby for outside interests would face a fine of up to £5,000.

Ahead of publication of the new Parliamentary Standards Authority Bill, Prime Minister Gordon Brown vowed to push the legislation through before MPs departed for their three-month summer recess at the end of July.

"We are determined to do everything in our power to clean this up and I am not going to rest until we have got this legislation through," he told BBC Radio 4's The World at One. "This reform is the biggest you have ever seen in parliament. You have not seen this in any period of the history of parliament.

"I am determined that it is cleaned up in such a way that we can say to the people of this country: 'We listened, we heard, we knew something was wrong, we have now dealt with it'."

Mr Brown added that if an MP "misleads deliberately or if an MP does something like, without reasonable excuse, fails to register a relevant interest, that is a criminal offence and that would then be investigated by the police".

He went on: "The mistake of the past was simply to leave everything to the House of Commons to do it on an all-party agreement basis, so that you got to the lowest common denominator. That has proven to be wrong. It wasn't acceptable."

The new outside body – the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa) – will be able to order MPs to repay any cash to which they were not entitled and it will also be able to recommend they face fines, suspension or expulsion.

In the most serious cases, the Ipsa will be able to refer matters to the police.

Unveiling the proposed new legislation, Justice Secretary Jack Straw said: "This bill will ensure that accountability and transparency are placed at the heart of the new system.

"This is vital if we are to restore the public's trust in MPs, politics and parliament."

The tough new rules will cause constitutional upheaval, giving courts the power to scrutinise the work of parliament for the first time. It will be up to police and prosecutors to determine whether an MP faces charges.

Under the current system, rogue MPs face a rebuke from the parliamentary standards watchdog, with no right of appeal. However, the proposed reforms will allow members to instruct lawyers to try to have their punishment overturned.

Both the Tories and the Liberal Democrats expressed concern about elements of the bill, which will, for the first time, place the MPs' Code of Conduct on a statutory footing.

Shadow Commons leader Alan Duncan said a number of MPs had expressed concern that the rules requiring the declaration of all outside earnings were "unworkable".

The Liberal Democrat front-bench spokesman David Heath said: "I don't want to be in a position where no member in this House can visit a factory in their constituency and accept a cup of tea and then come back and say something in this House about the industry or their own constituency".

Commons Leader Harriet Harman said the authorities at Westminster were "looking again" at the thousands of pages of blanked-out receipts that accompanied the publication of MPs' expenses. "This is public money that is paying towards the allowances. The public needs to know which MPs have spent how much and on what," she said.

Meanwhile, communities minister Shahid Malik faced fresh embarrassment after it emerged he had over-claimed £1,000 for his council tax. The Dewsbury MP has pledged to pay back any money he had mistakenly claimed.

He reportedly claimed £2,999 in expenses for his band-C property in Southwark, London, over two years, when the payments should have totalled £1,984.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 June 2009 11:32 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Politicians' expenses
 
1

Allan(handofgod137),

24/06/2009 00:18:45
I thought the maximum tarif for fraud was 14 years.
2

Fletty73,

Stirling 24/06/2009 00:20:46
If they are in HMP doing official time, will this entitle them to 3rd home expenses?
3

Anthony,

Glasgow 24/06/2009 00:21:09
Well spotted Cynicus - you're right - this maximum sentence actually amounts to a considerable reduction on a common law or even many statutory convictions for fraud, exclusively for MPs!

Also, no strict liabilities or reversed burdens of proof for them. Even though they have been consistently eroding the rights of everyone else in these respects with more and more restrictive legislation.

So it would seem it's now official, and Brown is barely even trying to disguise it now - there is one set of laws for the political classes, and another much less favourable one for the rest of us.
4

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

24/06/2009 00:21:25
"ERRANT MPs could face up to a year in prison under tough measures unveiled to clean up parliament."

"MPs could face an unlimited fine or 12 months in prison for purposely making a false expense claim."

"Anyone caught failing to register outside interests and receiving money to lobby for outside interests would face a fine of up to £5,000."

Is this a joke?

Are we to supposed to believe that there is no existing laws pertaining to obtaining money by deception or corruption by public servants?

No let me guess...the existing laws are for the population generally and carry far higher penalties.

Wangling a free Kitkat from the hotel mini-bar = 1 year in the slammer or unlimited fine...selling your country to the highest bidder = A £5,000 fine.

Nice moral compass Gordon...


5

Jimmy Fae the West,

Hull 24/06/2009 00:21:58
Why do we need a new criminal offence of committing fraud? Surely this perverting the ends of justice?

Eeeuuuw, The parameters of Labour sleaze knows no boundaries.
6

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

24/06/2009 00:28:35
"Under the current system, rogue MPs face a rebuke from the parliamentary standards watchdog, with no right of appeal. However, the proposed reforms will allow members to instruct lawyers to try to have their punishment overturned."

And put it on expenses no doubt!
7

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

24/06/2009 00:35:35
This must be the fastest pice of legislation in history...cops banging on more doors than we imagined?

Point of order mister Speaker!

Can you charge anyone under a law that did not exist at the time the offence was commited...Or do you have to make do with the law as it stood at the time?
8

brianmca3,

auld reekie 24/06/2009 00:57:53
and what about lord watson,him who set fire to hotel curtains,which could have resulted in loss of human life
yet hes sitting in the lords along with fatty farty pants flook
crime it seems does pay when one is an ermine covered scumbag
9

Starance,

Ayrshire 24/06/2009 01:27:59

...what a lot of sh*te. We're closing In. Yes, one rule for us, but another for MP's. Those MP's should consider themselves lucky, considering they have changed the laws anyway, as they would be on route for capital punishment, and if in China, hanged.

Many of those elected MP's who had claimed they understand the working man, the working women or family are a bunch of liars, and I cannot understand why people just demand that they are punished now, just as any fraudster would be. Why? because those bunch of corrupt politicians would still be stealing from the taxpayer for many years to come if the public were not made aware of it, and what sickens me is that the public have not even seen it all yet.
10

Evia,

24/06/2009 01:47:10
Up to a year in jail amounts to no more than a slap on the wrist.

It is now that the people demand justice and the same punishments for MPs that would be handed out to us if we committed fraud. I am extremely surprised that there are not thousands of signatures on these petitions by now.

www.gopetition.com/petitions/bring-the-mp-fraudsters-to-justice-over-expenses.html

petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/

www.gopetition.com/petitions/the-queen-to-dissolve-parliament-and-call-a-general-election.html
11

hoblar,

24/06/2009 01:56:58
"MPs could face an unlimited fine or 12 months in prison for purposely making a false expense claim."

Is that meant to sound scary?

And what is an "unlimited fine"? That is a Sun article, not the Scotsman as far as reptition of words is concerned.

Bawbaggery is afoot I say!
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/06/2009 02:34:12
Now! Do not be silly!, our MPs, cannot "Go_to_Jail", like some 'Monopoly Game', and they never will do!
For a 'START', their is not enough room for them!
Soo!, They will never 'GO'!, to Jail!

But they might still have their, "claimed-on-expenses" House in Trafalgar Square!

13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/06/2009 02:35:28


Now! Do not be silly!, our MPs, cannot "Go_to_Jail", like some 'Monopoly Game', and they never will do!
For a 'START', there is not enough room for them!
Soo!, They will never 'GO'!, to Jail!

But they might still have their, "claimed-on-expenses" House in Trafalgar Square!


14

,

24/06/2009 03:43:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Boy Wonder,

24/06/2009 07:01:36
"Expenses fraud MPs face up to year in jail" ????

It won't happen. The legal system is always loth to tackle MPs ... mostly because if they do, their own gravy train might be exposed.

Corruption like the expenses system riddles the heart of the UK governance system. Most of the Western nations are in a similar way.

That's the way of things and that's how they'll stay!

Cynic? Moi? You betcha!
16

i wear trousers not a skirt,

IN MY BED 24/06/2009 07:45:56
They should be a police investigation in to mick martin and jim devine expenses claims now. And if proven guilty they should be jailed and lose the rights of pension as a member of parliament.
17

ddmc,

24/06/2009 08:34:36
All too typical of Lie_bour, pretend to do something by introducing new laws. Mind you that's what happens when too many lawyers are in power. We have more than adequent law covering fraud, why not use them, oh its because they make cr_@p soundbites.
18

Black Five,

edinburgh 24/06/2009 08:52:31
They should be jailed.The blatant misuse and disregard for public money is shocking.
19

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 24/06/2009 08:59:31
Why not make it retrospective too?! But that would be too much like justice as the horse has surely bolted now.

There are adequate provisions for covering fraud and obtaining money by deception - these existing laws should be enforced rather than create a special law for MPs. It's this job creation scheme and far too much legislation that tends to cause problems but offers opportunities for the legal profession to expand its coffers. Less is more in that department. And a reduction in MP and Lords' numbers to deal with the rump of legislation left after the EU have passed judgement on us, otherwise they do not do nothing - the vacuum has to be filled.

The main reason that "new" legislation in this field is required is to give Brown a headline this week, which is hardly the way to run a country but is the modus operandi he has employed for the last 12 years.
20

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 24/06/2009 09:11:52
Will any MPs end up in jail? I'll believe it if and when it actually happens.

One year max is pitiful, compared with the standard 14 years sentence dished out to the rest of us.

Still, if it ruins the careers of a few undeserving politicians, at least sonething good will come out of it. I sense that a large numbers ex-MPs will be looking for alternative employment in a years time, including those in "safe" seats who thought they had a cushy job for life. Roll on 2010. I cannae wait.
21

aljok.23,

the world 24/06/2009 09:45:21
I'll believe it when I see it.
22

morris,

edinburgh 24/06/2009 09:47:17
24 Only when visiting constituents !Sorry I tell a lie. It may be the only place where Labour party meetings can be quorate soon!

This is game set and match as far as corruption and sleaze is concerned. Labour have definitely got their fingers on the self destruct button,and refuse to let go.
They believe that to be seen to be corrupt to the point of having a seperate legal arrangement for politicians is okay and people will forget about this eventually .The important thing is that they can carry on doing their duty and representing the best interests of the .........................erm Labour party membership. The rest of you can fend for yourselves.
Ive said it before and I will not stop saying it.
ANYBODY WHO STILL VOTES LABOUR gives democracy a bad name and should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
23

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

24/06/2009 10:11:21
It's to be a crime to pay an MP to ask questions in the Commons, but shouldn't it be a crime to pressure MP's on what they say or how they vote in the Commons?

If I try to suborn a witnes or juror, I'll be arrested. Surely it's much more important that those creating the law should be free from interference?

24

dhu loch,

inveraray 24/06/2009 10:22:35
The Labour Party are desperate to get the public worked up on second jobs for MP's,but this diversion isn't working.I'm disgusted that this corrupt and arrogant shower have the nerve to introduce new laws for this country when they have lost the trust of the people.Election now!
25

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 24/06/2009 10:44:02
The irony is that under the old regulations, very few of the MPs were actually operating outwith the rules. Even those who were, were in the main going along with the principle that claiming expenses was actively encouraged.

It's no good finger-pointing and bleating about it. Lets draw a line under it, establish new rules and enforce them.
26

Sgian Achlais,

24/06/2009 10:45:28
We get what we vote for and therefore I blame the idiots who vote for a certain political party when they have a proven track record of incompentence and corruption.

Self Serving Fakey Socialists with their £250 alarm clocks, massage chairs, several london flats. Pathetic

Crooked socialists from can repay a mortgage and not realise/recall/remember even though it costs £14,000 per year.

eg. £14,000 per year interest only at 6.00% is equal to a mortgage balance of £233,333.

Interest Only @ 4% is equal to a balance £350,000.

Even the richest of MP's should be able to remember whether they have just transferred £233,000 to £350,000 from their personal savings.

Obviously they manage to accumulate their vast sums of savings by never having to use their salary because they, uniquely in the UK, receive every expense possible beyond anything claimed by the other 55 Million people whop actually pay the bills.

Filthy Parasites.
27

loosehead,

Edinburgh 24/06/2009 10:48:50
The fraud goes further that the honourable members themselves. Some of them have stated that the Fees Office advised and colluded with them in their fraudulent course of action. If that is so, a criminal conspiracy exists in which those advisers are up to their necks.
28

Sgian Achlais,

24/06/2009 10:51:36
29Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head, Edinburgh 24/06/2009 10:44:02
...It's no good finger-pointing and bleating about it. Lets draw a line under it, establish new rules and enforce them.

==============================

Why draw a new line under the issue when when we could take advantage of an existing line.

For example we could line the MP's up against a wall in groups. They would never cheat their expenses again.
29

scully,

Colchester 24/06/2009 11:03:22
Why did you take my comments of* It was the truth
30

scully,

Colchester 24/06/2009 12:01:02
Well I am not going to make any more comments for a while.Expect to say all the Guilty MPs should go to prison now. And if the Police don't bring them to justice. Then may we take it that the Police have no authority over these people.That they are outside the law and don't have to conform to the rules like the rest of us.Now what kind of man would have Shouted for NELSON MANDELA to be hanged.This new speaker is a racist and a thief. But if the Police have had to relinquish their authority there is nothing to be done. We are just a step away from Zimbabwe
31

scully,

Colchester 24/06/2009 12:06:12


Believe it or not the Police are the only Protection the British People Have,And when we lose that. Then it will be mayhem, it will be Everyman for himself. People will take the law into their own hands. Bye for Now,
32

Mareng,

Edinburgh 24/06/2009 12:29:09
"ASSASSINATION POLITICS" is the only answer:

http://jya.com/ap.htm

Jim Bell speculated on the question of whether an organization could be set up to legally announce that it would be awarding a cash prize to somebody who correctly "predicted" the death of one of a list of violators of rights, usually either government employees, officeholders, or appointees. It could ask for anonymous contributions from the public, and individuals would be able send those contributions using digital cash.

Has to be better than £10 on the lottery.
33

Tartan Viking,

24/06/2009 12:42:31
Expenses fraud MPs face up to year in jail

Better build a big jail then.

Oh wait a minute. It isn't being back-dated. What a surprise.

The best way to deal with them is to bring back public hanging.
34

Micjonger,

24/06/2009 12:46:28
I was never very good at History at school but i'm now beginning to understand the reasons & principles be the French Revolution.
35

Micjonger,

24/06/2009 12:50:14
I was never very good at History at school but i'm now beginning to understand the reasons & principles behind the French Revolution.
36

Tartan Viking,

24/06/2009 13:09:47
#40 & 41.

How about the principles of pressing the enter button twice :o)
37

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 24/06/2009 14:09:21
What 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes' means, the Latin students will know, but might be freely translated as 'The guards (M.P.s) will never penalise themselves.'

I worked for an organisation at home that brought in 'legislation' to penalise suppliers for breaching the rules on supply. It was to be pretty Draconian in effect, but as the management was made up of elected suppliers (Elected by the suppliers), modifications were introduced such that the penalty was rarely if ever applied to my knowledge while I was there and that does not mean that no suppliers defaulted.
Even at this late date, the consequences of this dilution of penalty are being felt. If it is not policed and implemented, it is only window-dressing.

I see a parallel in intent with this proposed legislation that will probably have the same result in effect.
38

Joe Macdelta.,

24/06/2009 15:30:17
This wil probably be for the future, and this will mean that the present bunch of fraudsters will get off scot free, no surprise there then, we need a revolution.
39

morris,

edinburgh 24/06/2009 16:14:55
To be fair it is difficult to draw a line between its within the rules and we broke the law,when we break the law is within the rules!

Wendy was just a practice run using the Scots legal system as a guinea pig.
Now we see new Labour in their true colours .

SOILED PIGGING BROWN
40

steve52,

Kinfauns 24/06/2009 17:27:41
I thought it was for a judge to decide on length of sentence. One year max. means only 6 months IF it ever happens that is.

Most cases of fraud that I am aware of carry a minimum of 2 years so why are MP's different? Will this mean a max. for all fraud cases or are MP's really to be treated differently?
41

Number 6,

Germany 24/06/2009 18:34:51
So now Brown thinks MPs are too superior to be dealt with under the same conditions as the common citizen.

You can be sure there are a plethora of get out of jail free clauses like "protesting your innocence in the face of overwhelming evidence", or that old MP favorite "I made an honest mistake".
42

Alan B,

24/06/2009 19:34:29
Browns economic policies are paramount to fraud.

1)prudence - a lie
2)promise not to borrow over the economic cycle - a lie
3)policies of economic stability
4)fsa to improve regulation of financial markets removing the beo responsibility - a lie - he even admitted that he felt under pressure to ignore regulation of financial institutions - and turner head of fsa has accused him of pressuring the fsa into calling of their investigations.

43

puskas,

East kilbride 24/06/2009 20:02:43
No48,

No5.... Transparency, The moral compass has been obliterated and many of the electorate wish a GE.


44

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 24/06/2009 20:05:00
Another soldier killed in Afghanistan and what do we see Harriet Harman doing during PMQ while Brown is sending his condolences to the family of the dead man?

Well, laughing actually.

Beneath contempt!
45

puskas,

East kilbride 24/06/2009 20:05:54
Blair has ran to the confessional box. Brown has nowhere to run..

Not great adverts for christianity..
46

puskas,

East kilbride 24/06/2009 20:07:08
No50 Yes I noticed ..
47

puskas,

East kilbride 24/06/2009 20:11:03
The topic is a joke... Mandelson is an expert at deceiving ..

Whatever sentence carried out by the judiciary on a member of the public should be trebled when in a trusted position like MP's civil service etc..
48

JCA REID,

Annan 26/06/2009 11:48:19
Face up to a year in jail! They'll be lucky if ANYBODY does more than 9months! & then what? Onto the TV celebrity track .... " I'm an ex-con I need some dosh. I'm rehabilitated."
What a load of puke.

 

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