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Row over star's stem-cell ad

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Published Date: 26 October 2006
MICHAEL J Fox was at the centre of a political row last night after launching a push to find a cure for the illness that destroyed his Hollywood acting career.
In a series of 30-second television advertisements, Fox, who was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease in 1991, speaks in support of three Democratic Party candidates who are running for office in next month's mid-term elections, urging people to vote for them because they back stem-cell research.

Fox, 45, bares his symptoms on camera, twitching and rocking as he talks of his hopes that such research holds the key to a cure. At the end of the brief address, he appears close to tears.

"I care deeply about stem-cell research," he says in an advert backing Claire McCaskill, a Democrat standing in Missouri. "What you do in Missouri matters to millions of Americans - Americans like me."

But the commercials have opened up an ugly battle for political ground. One group branded Fox's speech "false and misleading", while conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh - who has 20 million listeners a week - accused him of "exaggerating the effects of the disease". "He is moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act... This is really shameless of Michael J Fox," he asserted. "Either he didn't take his medication, or he's acting."

However, Limbaugh's comments prompted an outcry from stem-cell research advocates and patients' groups, forcing him to acknowledge yesterday that he had caused offence.

"I will apologise to Michael J Fox, if I am wrong in characterising his behaviour on this commercial as an act," he said on air.

But he went on to express distaste that Fox's hopes for a cure should be used to earn political capital for the Democrats.

"I don't care what anybody says. It is unseemly, it is exploitative and it is downright mean to mislead people who suffer from horrible diseases that there is a cure around the corner if only Republicans could be defeated," Limbaugh complained.

Embryonic cell research is barred from receiving federal funding. Advocates say the ban inhibits the potential for revolutionary medical advances and denies hopes of a cure for millions of people with diseases such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and muscular dystrophy. Opponents say the destruction of human life for the purpose of experimentation is wrong.

In July, the president, George Bush, shot down attempts to lift the ban, saying that the practice "crosses a moral boundary".

The issue is a particularly hot potato in Missouri because of proposals to amend the state constitution to protect certain kinds of stem-cell research.

In an advert due to air last night, starring actors Patricia Heaton and Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus in The Passion of the Christ, Missourians Against Human Cloning hit back at Fox's claim that opponents of the amendment wanted to "criminalise" research.

"Those claims are just false and misleading," said the group's spokeswoman, Cathy Ruse.

Meanwhile Fox's political adviser, John Rogers, branded criticism of the actor "insulting".

He declined to discuss whether the Back to the Future star had deliberately abstained from medication during the ads in order to maximise their impact, though Fox has admitted doing so in the past.

In his autobiography, the actor recalls how he went before Congress in 1999 to argue for embryonic stem-cell research and appeared without medication.

He goes on: "It seemed to me this occasion demanded that my testimony about the effects of the disease, and the urgency we as a community were feeling, be seen as well as heard."

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1

Sarah Ann,

Canada 26/10/2006 01:49:00

There goes Mr. Limbaugh again putting his mouth in gear before he's switched on his brain. Maybe if he was able to walk in Michael Fox's shoes for a day he would find enlightenment.

2

michael,

Tacoma WA 26/10/2006 02:18:28

Sarah,
I'm pretty sure Mr. Limbaugh doesn't have much of a brain, beyond the more primitive structures that provide for basic functioning and survival.

My country is being run by people who aren’t capable of higher level thinking and reasoning skills. Sorry about that; we’re working to correct the problem.

3

Drew,

Atlanta 26/10/2006 02:28:16

It sounds to me that at the end of the story both:

1) Fox's advisor wouldn't discuss if Fox had indeed not taken his meds

2) Fox admitted having skipped his meds in the past to elicit agreement on this issue

It seems likely that Limbaugh's statement may prove factual.

Fox's inference that stem-cell research is false. There is a ban against *federal* funding. Think of all the research done without federal funds - the pharmaceutical companies perform $billion of research and development with private investment.

I may not be Rush's biggest fan but I've gotta agree with him on this one.

- Drew

4

jim,

Green Bay, Wisconsin 26/10/2006 02:39:39

"It is unseemly, it is exploitative and it is downright mean to mislead people who suffer from horrible diseases that there is a cure around the corner if only Republicans could be defeated," Limbaugh complained.

I've never seen such blatant hypocrisy. What do the Republicans promise to be just around the corner if Democrats can be defeated? Economic growth and security, the restoration of religious values, sanctity of life, and freedom from terrorist threat.

“It is exploitive and downright mean to mislead people who are afraid of terrorist attack, WMD or loss of jobs that there is a cure around the corner if only Democrats could be defeated.”

I'm hoping that the illegitimate campaign for a permanent Republican majority is finally failing, and we can begin to restore participatory democracy.

5

larry,

New Jersey 26/10/2006 02:42:28

Just wanted to mention that this article contains a factual error, namely the quote that "Embryonic cell research is barred from receiving federal funding.". This of course if untrue. Only new lines of embryonic cells will be ineligible for funding - existing lines can and do receive funding.

It would help your readers to have access to correct information, especially in a quasi-journalistic context such as this appears to be.

Alas this is a large part of the problem - people are naturally biased in their emotional beliefs, and find it difficult to separate facts from... non-facts. Once these get "reported" as facts, others are mislead as well.

6

Elizabeth,

Kalamazoo, Michigan 26/10/2006 03:01:47

Drew:

It bears mentioning that the primary medication for Parkinson's disease, L-dopa, causes dyskinesic symptoms in patients that many people mistake for parkinsonism. The weaving, twitching movements Fox displayed in the advertisement may actually be a sign that he was taking his medication. I believe he has stated in interviews that he went without medication for his last few acting roles because the Parkinson's symptoms were easier to mask on-camera than the L-dopa side effects.

As for Mr. Limbaugh, I think we should send Muhammad Ali over to his house. Parkinson's or no, I'd still bet on Ali in a fight.

7

Androsthenes,

Edinburgh 26/10/2006 03:22:02

Quibble-quibble-new federal funding/old federal funding
The USA is currently controlled by a cabal of "Christian" ayatollahs who wish to force their brand of sactimonious piety on the whole world.So much for the separation of church and State.
People who support stem cell research also pay federal taxes and expect them to be spent according to their wishes NOT to further the oxymoronic aims of the warmongering,gun toting right-to-lifers.
Also-You forget Larry,that you're contributing to a newspaper in a country where having an abortion carries all the moral degredation of buying a hamburger.
morning after pill? go to any pharmacy-it's free.

8

cora,

26/10/2006 03:26:10

My mother has parkinson's and wouldn't be able to move if it weren't for her medication. Before she had the medication, she continuously lost her balance, one of her arms contracted and she was unable to write legibly because her hand was "frozen." After the meds, she could move. The meds cause the person to unfreeze and move.

Limbaugh is wrong. Without medication, the person's movement is severely limited, while with the medication the movements are often uncontrollable. It's normal for people to think that the movements are parkinsons, but that's not correct.

Insufficient information caused Limbaugh to make embarrassingly inaccurate comments. I hope he's developed some curiosity about parkinsons and actually does some research.

9

Roger,

Louisiana 26/10/2006 03:34:35

I've never been a partisan, always opting to vote for whatever candidate seemed more deserving of the job. Too bad about the rise of the neo-conservatives: another partisan has been created. I couldn't in good conscience vote for candidates who are supported by loud mouthed neanderthals like Limbaugh and Hannity.

What happened to unbiased, mild mannered newsmen? Are they instinct? Now all I can find on TV are screaming pundits, more interested in garnering support for their agenda and attacking those who disagree, than in honestly communicating any kind of reality to the public.

What's happened to our country? How can anyone criticize MJFox for standing up for candidates who support medical research that has the potential to help people. Even if his life wasn't railroaded by Parkinsons, WHICH IT WAS, how can that action possibly be criticized? But, in our great nation, we have pundits like Limbaugh trying to obfuscate reality with unwarranted character attacks. And, we have people like Drew and Larry missing the big picture, because they're too busy arguing over the fine points. Job well done, Limbaugh.

Once again, we miss the forest through the trees.

10

Lori,

Twin Cities, MN 26/10/2006 03:57:34

Quoting Jim; "I'm hoping that the illegitimate campaign for a permanent Republican majority is finally failing, and we can begin to restore participatory democracy."

We have a participatory democracy. We voted and a majority of the people voted Republican. Just because YOUR side doesn't win, doesn't make the winning illegitimate.

Don't insult my participation because I didn't participate the way YOU wanted me to. This is why I don't vote Democrat - I can think for myself, thank you. I don't need 'the state' telling me what I should and should not think or do. I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself...I don't need a mommy or daddy in Washington.

11

Marjorie,

California 26/10/2006 04:22:21

I will bet all those people bleating and braying and trying to appear "Holier than thou" over stem cell research will be begging for the cure when they get sick. To see how sincere they are in protecting little cells, they could assure their place up there with Jesus in heaven if they would just sign an agreement never to avail themselves of any medical treatment that was gained from using stem cell. Then maybe they would quit trying to force their ignorance on those of us who have some sympathy for the sick and suffering.

12

DSA,

USA 26/10/2006 05:15:07

This must be taken in the context of the source of the insults. It is common knowledge in this country to people who are able to think for themselves that Rush Limbaugh is a loud mouthed gasbag who is an expert on nothing except propigating bigotry, racism, hatred of anything democratic and an espouser of nazi/fascist philosophy. We have grown to expect this crap from him. Fortunately he has about as much credibility as the leaders of the Republican Party he worships. If people are against stem cell research - then plain and simple do not take part in it. The rest of us will evolve nicely thank you - finding cures to help the sick. Oh - wait a minute... the same thought process that is against stem cell research also does not accept evolution. Shining example of why the Founding Fathers realised that it is imperative to maintain the seperation of church and state... So ironic to know that so many of these people who "tow the party line" who cannot think for themselves and are against stem-cell research and abortion - also believe that the deaths caused by the war in Iraq are justified. Jesus must be shaking his head in disgust at these so called Christians.....

13

Malky,

26/10/2006 05:39:14

Al Frankin said it best when he published a book called "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat liar".

Limbaugh isn't a sorry excuse for a republican, he's a sorry excuse for a human being. A disgusting man with nothing to bring to the table other than irrational hatred for anything other than evil.

BTW - the abn on stem cell research is thoroughly backward and a good example of how dangerous and ignorant Christian extremism is.

14

billengland,

england 26/10/2006 07:30:59

It is wrong to take the life of others to enhance or save your own. No argument.

15

paulr,

26/10/2006 07:33:20

our politicians should watch carefully and take notes, compared to the yanks they are all amateurs

16

Richardinho,

hawick 26/10/2006 08:15:51

I'm always shocked by the division in American politics.

politically there doesn't seem a great deal between Republic and democrat, but the Republicans, or rather the neo-conservatives, seem to be characterised by sheer insane nastiness.

Hopefully politics in this country will not catch this particular bug.

17

Janet,

Disgusted in Arizona 26/10/2006 08:40:50

If I were opposed to stem cell research I would be screaming at the top of my lungs about the number of embryos created by couples in an attempt to conceive a child. An excess number of eggs are fertilized knowing that not all of the embryos will implant themselves into the womb. WHY aren't the opponents protesting the creation of lives that are destined to "die" or be thrown into a freezer for years???

As for Limbaugh's assinine and sickening display, I almost had to run to the bathroom to vomit. I was stunned to learn that he has 20 million listeners a week - I feel like our country has become a major freak show. If I ever get the chance to visit your beautiful country, I will buy you a beer if you don't stone me to death.

18

JG,

Fife 26/10/2006 09:35:20

#10 Lori
Apart from the fact the your president got in the first time because all the votes in Florida didn't get counted, I typed something on another subject a week or so ago, and was told by one of your countrymen that it's the electoral college that decides who is in power and who is not. Not quite the "one man, one vote" scenario you're depicting!!

19

,

26/10/2006 10:15:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
20

shayne,

australia 26/10/2006 10:34:54

support michael j fox totally as spouse of person with PD

21

hlz,

Scotland 26/10/2006 10:55:41

What is really misleading about Mr Limbaugh's comments is that medication for Parkinson's does not stop the symptoms of Parkinson's.

Medication, at best, means you don't shake as bad. For a short time.

People like Mr Limbaugh will hold their hard line opinions until it happens to one of their own. Like Nancy Regan who suddenly found she could support stem cell research when faced with Ronald's advancing dementia.

Hilary

22

Jimmy Krankie,

China 26/10/2006 11:03:37

Rush Limbaugh is probably on his onw medication again!!

"We throw away many embryos in IVF and no one objects. Isn't it better to use a few embryos to save lives?"

"The fact that the cells may come from embryos is not an objection because the embryos are going to die anyway," he told the newspaper The Independent in London. "It is morally equivalent to taking a heart transplant from a victim of a car accident."

The above quotes are from Professor Stephen Hawking a man I trust more than 'Charlie' Rush...

If Bush and his cronies are allowed to derail such pioneering research then hopefully other more open minded countries will lead the way leaving behind the 'texas Taliban' and its evangelical fundamentalists

23

Maximus,

Glasgow 26/10/2006 12:46:19

Why don't we build a business case for this? Let's make an allowance for savings made in avoiding suffering and hospital bills and lower population through lack of embryos. Heck, why don't we consider the savings made if we were to bump off all those with degenerative diseases, embryonic screening and abortion. Imagine the killing we'd make!

A joke? Think about what is happening here. Consider what it means to suffer, to provide a cure, to give comfort. Surely the embryo is a stage of human development (Wolpert, OU Press), and can therefore enjoy the same rights extended to the elderly.

Perhaps the reason why Christians are willing to protect the rights of the unborn is simply because they recognise the sanctity and dignity of life. They know what it means to suffer when following a role model who did exactly that for them.

So, those who say that Christian's don't care - we care more than you know.

24

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 13:11:26

#15--i'm concerned that that very important fact was left out of this story, & thank you for pointing it out to the posters, although i don't think most posting want the facts.
#10---THANK YOU!!
#12--17--& others---Rush Limbaugh has been for 18 &1/2yrs the #1 listened to talk radio host. Sean Hannity-#2---Glen Beck--#3---FOX NEWS CHANNEL
#1 network---bar-none!! conservatisim is here & in your face!!!
#13--did you know "al frankins" radio show & the station he started "air America" went belly up!!!!
nobody in the USA wants to hear his tripe!!!

25

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 13:13:26

#24--point well made!!

26

Sam,

Washington, DC 26/10/2006 13:17:14

It is truely gratifying to see that the Scotsman has become so widely read across the globe. It must pass a shiver through the London Times.

27

Clyde,

26/10/2006 13:42:00

Quit complaining and get out and vote the idiots out of office that are running this country. My dog is smarter than most right wingers, he knows what a bush should be used for.

28

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 14:03:53

#28--you may have to explain what a "vote" is to your comrads & then show them how to "vote". are you the one that showed those liberal voters in Florida in 2000 how to vote? you know, the ones that couldn't punch the correct hole for algore on their ballot? job well done!!

29

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 14:14:07

#27--yes, & i'm grateful the Scotsman has given the people "across the globe" such access. i would have liked the Scotsman to have included the fact stated in post #15.

30

David,

Ottawa 26/10/2006 14:32:41

It is a shame that once again people get away from the heart of this issue which is the incedible lack of intelligence and sensitivity on the part of Rush Limbaugh, which many would say is no surprise. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of stem cell research and the propoganda that surrounds the issue, those who support it and those who are against it have the right to express themselves through free speach. That does not mean that a hyporcritical junkie like Limbaugh has the right to denegrate a person because he does not like what he has to say.
Having watched America tear itself apart along cultural lines for the past decade, it should come as no surprise that extremists such as Hannity, Limbaugh and the truly awful Ann Coulter are now the spokespersons for those who are classified as the Christian right. But, how sad is this? If I were Christian and Republican, I would certainly want decent people who are not hate filled hypocrites speaking for me. After all, in a democracy everyone has the right to freedom of expression but Good Lord, do these morons deserve that right?

31

Clyde,

USA 26/10/2006 14:32:48

Sandy, lets see if you can still say "conservatisim here and in your face" after Nov. 7.

32

Independent,

Chicago 26/10/2006 15:52:56

Limbaugh is a drug addled moron. But why does Michael J. Fox, who probably would not eat horsemeat or pate, feel so self-righteously entitled to ground-up embryos?

Equally nauseating in their sense of entitlement are the people who create these embryos and then leave them in the freezer so as to ensure their narcissistic desire to reproduce themselves is not thwarted.

33

Malky,

26/10/2006 15:55:39

#25-Sandy- you're obviously a neo-con who blindly supports dogma like a little lamb.

That Al Frankin doesn;t have 20m extremist psychophants tuning in is neither here nor there.

The point is - he published a book calling Rush Limbaugh "a big fat liar" and then another one "lies and the lying liars who tell them" and funnily enough, he lists all your favourite FOX "newsmen" as being LIARS.

The point here Sandy is he di not get sued. There was no legal challenge, no defamation case, no libel, WHY?

Because all of the people you adore are PROVEN LIARS. This has not been disputed.

34

mike - across the pond,

across the pond 26/10/2006 15:56:20

so the US government doesnt support stem cell research...

WOOP DEEEE DOOO!!!

IF there is a dime to be made on stem cell research how STUPID are you to believe that the drug companies wont spend 9 cents to figure it out?

Rush Limbaugh... well if you LISTEN as closely to Al Franken... well you'd discover its a dead heat as to who has less above the collar.... at least Rush is a citizen... franken is a gas bag Cannuck doing his level best to keep the public just as mis-informed as folks claim rush does!!!

as far as american politicians being more "professional" than their UK counterparts... not from what I've seen... you brits like to tear down Blair... I think he's a Reagan class debater... and would absolutely SHRED any candidate on the american political scene

unfortunately in 2008 we are going to see the parties put up yet another round of sham candidates... we'll get to see the dems put up shrill candidates who have no agenda other than to say how bad things are...

I'll pledge right here right now IF any (VIABLE) candidate runs on a platform with anything resembling a vision for the future... I'll vote for him/her...

I'm not holding my breath though...

35

Malky,

26/10/2006 16:12:11

#35 - REAGAN class - are you taking the p*ss? We talking B-movie actor Reagan here, yes?

36

Malky,

26/10/2006 16:14:04

#35 - who cares who has "more above the collar"? Fact remains - he lists as liars in the most public of ways neo cons and FOX "newsmen" alike and they have not challenged him in a court of law.

Whether he is as bad as them, i don't care. Poit well made is that "pills" limbaugh is officially a big fat lair.

37

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 16:22:28

#32--yes Clyde, i'll be very happy to.

38

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 16:34:05

#34--al frankin wasn't able to buy a cup of coffee
with his royalties from both books! nobody cares what he thinks!! we don't want him to go away, he's very funny. you can call me what you want McFly, it doesn't bother me.

39

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 16:39:49

#37--Marty--please calm down m'lad!! please re-read # 25---we're hear to stay for a very-very long time.

40

Malky,

26/10/2006 16:42:46

We'll see.

41

DSA,

USA 26/10/2006 16:52:59

I see all the hatemongers have come out their fascist holes. Sandy.. you look up to liars. Your condescension reeks of bitterness. Fox News has nothing to do with news. It's merely a mouthpiece for the agenda of the Project for a New American Century. The same bunch of idiots that have no regard whatsoever for the consitution. The same war criminals that could not wait to attack the people of Iraq. Your sanctimonious mean- spirited diatribe defending people like Rush Limbaugh merely shows how you lack compassion for the poor and suffering in this world. So far no one in this forum has managed to explain why they can be against stem-cell research and yet be for the illegal immoral unnecessary war in Iraq. Rush Limbaugh is nothing more than an ignorant arrogant gasbag. He has no credibility whatsoever. Al Franken showed him up for what he is. I suggest you do yourself a favor and read his book. Be good for your education. Glad I could help!

42

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 17:00:29

#36--mojo--just can't get over the most popular president in the history of America, can you?

43

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 17:06:44

#42--douglas--douglas!! you reeeealy need to calm down. the sky is NOT falling. as i said before RUSH & FOXnewsCHANNEL are here to stay for a very very long time--get over it!!

44

maestra,

26/10/2006 17:21:06

ummm...approval ratings around 35% - not too popular, eh? - certainly unpopular around the world - he will probably go down in history as the most unpopular and dangerous president ever

45

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 17:35:13

#45--I don't care how popular he is around the world!! he is keeping us safe.

46

Malky,

26/10/2006 18:02:37

#46 - keeping you safe. I'd say he has generated an unprecedented level of hatred toward your nation all across the globe, FOX News tells you that's safe, but you're brainless if that's your gauge on world affairs.

He's keeping you safe...you make me howl. I love it you're on these boards because unless i saw it for myself, i could only imagine the stereotypical neo-con brainless fox news junkies were as stupid as i thought they'd have to be.

What about Bill O'Reilly - is he keeping you safe or informed? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

I love the fact you're so ignorant.

47

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 18:15:20

#47--mojo--it looks to me like your a "closet fox-news- O'Reilly" junkie. you may have just come out of that closet. you can call me "brainless & ignorant" forever, it won't stop me from posting my position, of course, one has to get back to the story to do that.---bye--

48

Malky,

26/10/2006 18:53:25

Sandy - i hope you don't change because you are my comedy relief. I will not tire from ripping your arguments in support of evil and its actions, to shreds.

When you come back after the Steelers get beat again, tell me what the FOX "News" take on this issue is.

49

ConcernedParent,

Edinburgh 26/10/2006 18:56:58

Republicans make me wanna puke. They get their self-righteous knickers in a twist if someone shows a nipple on tv..or if some guy suffering from Parkinson's is advertising for a cure...

These are the same morons who cheerlead for war..shock and awe.

They're human trash

50

Oliver F,

UK 26/10/2006 19:04:36

Hello?

Anyone want to stop the personal criticisms and wider issues of neo-con versus liberals and get back to the actual issue of stem cell research?

Just a thought.

51

Oliver F,

UK 26/10/2006 19:28:45

I didnt think so. Let me start then.

I for one think that its a shame that stem cell research isnt being supported and encouraged to its full potential in the US. I think to a certain extent parralels can be drawn between this issue and the anti-vivisection issue.

Similarly, I would say that just like with animal testing (excepting cosmetic research), the benefits to humanity greatly outweigh the downside. Its very easy for the average healthy personbe self-righteous and decry stem cell research on the "right to life" grounds.

Once you are faced with a progressive, life-limiting chronic condition like parkinsons disease and other such conditions the issues can become muddier. As for criticising M. Fox for campaigning: I understand that hes an american citizen and you have something called the first amendment of the constitution allowing free speech.

Rather than criticise him I admire him for his courage in fighting to further the issue of stem cell research which one day may lead to better treatments or even a cure to his condition.

52

ConcernedParent,

Edinburgh 26/10/2006 19:30:03

Erm, when it comes to stem cell research, and its funding, neo-cons versus liberals IS part of the issue.

And if people wanna use a "stem-cell research debating forum" to criticize individuals who are against further funding for stem cell research, then I think that's up to them.

"Just a thought"

53

ConcernedParent,

UK 26/10/2006 19:32:26

Yes, the "neo-cons" care so much about a bunhc of cells...but couldnt care less about 500,000 dead iraqis.

ME thinks they might be a bunch of hypocrites!

54

ConcernedParent,

UK 26/10/2006 19:34:41

He's keeping us safe!!! LMAO!

idiot!

55

Oliver F,

UK 26/10/2006 19:38:12

Scotsman

Of course if people want to criticise each other in personal attacks that is their right. I am just pointing out that it doesnt exactly further the debate does it?

56

Oliver F,

UK 26/10/2006 19:56:55

One good thing to come out of this is that with funding difficulties for stem cell research in the US, the UK has a chance to become a world leader in this area and hopefully partially halt the brain drain of some of our scientists to the US

57

Malky,

26/10/2006 20:17:06

Keith Olbermann on Rush Limbaugh and his Michael J Fox attack;

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/25/olbermann-gives-...

58

Malky,

26/10/2006 20:19:15

The comments above are symptomatic of the right to free speech - that will ALL go if the neo-cons and their British counterpart have their way - take a look;

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2006/261006ta...

59

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 20:56:25

#60--read this very carefully, the only people our
"Homeland Security", or any branch of our gov't. is interested in checking are the "TERRORISTS". those that want to murder not only Americans but every citizen of every country that doesn't believe as they do. exactly how many people do you know personally that have had their phones tapped, spies watching them shop, mail read, etc. none!!!
#53--if you have the time, watch the "Michael Fox" commercial, listen carefully, & then go to Limbaugh's web site & listen what he said. you'll be amazed at the info you DON'T have.

60

mike - across the pond,

across the pond - #45 karen 26/10/2006 20:59:00

you are a slickwillie lover, arent you!!!

"....that woman...."

how ANY self respecting female on the planet could tolerate that guy proves once and for all that women dont think with any other part of thier bodies than men do.... lol
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
history will judge 'W'...

yes history will, and depending what we do over the few years after he leaves office will have a large say in how effective his administration is viewed... IF the next administration sets about to undo everything he set in motion, democracy in the middle east may fail, and he will be viewed as a failure... if not... who knows... he was president when all the rules changed... at worst he will be viewed as idealistic, trying to spread democracy (by the sword) in a part of the world that wasnt ready for it.

we were told that history would judge Ronald Reagan poorly... well he ended the cold war... turned an absolutely dismal economy around... changed how america felt about herself... coming up on 20 years later, ronald reagan was one of the BETTER presidents of the 20th century. especially when you consider that he had NO time to spin his presidency before he retired from public life

61

mike - across the pond,

across the pond - stem cell research 26/10/2006 21:14:26

read the fine print fools!!!

THINK like an accountant thinks!!!!

let me clue you in... IF you were a big drug company... and you couldnt get federal monies for your lucrative project... well it MAY make you stop and consider if your project was worthwhile, but if there was a boatload of monies to be made... youd darn well put R&D monies into it... and maybe do it where PETA wont be looking over your shoulder!!!

Mr Fox and his little diatribe... keep in mind he wants to dip into TAX monies to fund the research... why doesnt he go the Jerry Lewis route and do a TELETHON... he'd raise one HELL OF A LOT MORE MONEY than he could get out of the fed... and with one hell of a lot LESS restrictions... oh MALLORY!!!!

62

sandy,

USA 26/10/2006 21:35:28

#62--Mike--correct on all points!!
#63--Fox didn't do the commercial to raise money, it's all about the election & to do anything to unseat a Republican. it had nothing to do with the actual "stem-cell research". sad isn't it.

63

Malky,

26/10/2006 21:52:33

Sandy @ 61 - really?

Try this the next time you're on the phone folks, mention the words;

Bush
Iraq
Afghanistan
War
Illegal
Impeachment

and listen to the interception of your telephone call noted by the clicks and clunks on the line.....go ahead, give it a try.

64

Oliver F,

UK 26/10/2006 22:21:33

Sandy

Of course it had to do with stem cell research. In the commercial M.Fox stated very clearly his view that the republican candidate wants to make stem cell research a crime.

Furthermore, after reading limbaughs commentson his website I feel even more strongly that M. Fox was correct and I say again that he has every right to do what he has done and I applaud him for it.

And limbaughs commends on the dyskinesia (shaking) in the ads just shows his ignorance of parkinsons. It is the medication for parkinsons, such as dopamine, that causes the excessive dyskinesia.

65

mike - across the pond,

across the pond - uncle ollie... #66 27/10/2006 13:51:05

ollie ollie ollie...

WHAT on earth makes you think that an individual US congressman or senator can make a law?

I'll admit that I am ignorant of the UK political system... but as for the US... these kinds of things make great press clippings.. but in reality turn out to be little more than cage lining...

In the US IF these things can fight their way out of senate or congressional committees... they end up on the floor of the senate or congress... which if they are lucky actually get to a vote (look up the term Fillibuster if you think this can be a done deal)... THEN they head off to the other house... (congress or senate) where the process starts all over again... IF the two bills are compatible... otherwise they head back to committees which hammer out a compromise and the whole process starts over again.... once approved by BOTH houses then it goes to the white house for approval... after which the lawyers get their shots at it in court...

anything like this would turn out to be a battle in the courts that would likely take a decade or more to detangle... expecially depending where the opponents decided to fight it... (the 9th circuit court in SF is a liberal bastion spewing forth all sorts of decisions that even you would scratch your head over)

EVEN IF the this wended its way through the legislative branch and the executive branch AND the courts decided with the folks who wanted to ban research... we get back to the bean counting accountants withing the drug companies...

lets just say that the individual races Fox is sticking his nose into IS the tipping point for this legislation... do you for a minute believe that ANY of the big drug companies are not multinational to the point where they wouldnt just ship the research off to another country where the ruling was a little more liberal? not to mention the companies extracting tax dollars (or whatever the currency) from that government for the priveled

66

sandy,

USA 27/10/2006 14:30:55

#67--Mike--this debate to "OLLIE" has nothing to do
with "stem-cell" research, it's all about Rush Limbaugh, & his politics. with # 65--Gerry--it's all about his paranoia & Pres. Bush.

67

,

27/10/2006 15:58:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 132374, Article id was mapped to record!
68

sandy,

USA 27/10/2006 17:32:51

#69--do you really know anything about stem-cell research or are you using this forum for more of your "i hate Bush & i hate Republicans & OH-i really really do hate Bush rant--------can't take the heat so you must resort to personal attack? i'll bet you think your a real man.

69

Oliver F,

UK 27/10/2006 23:31:13

Sandy #68: Thank you very much for telling me what my own debate is with me. Go back and read my comments. A lot of you may be discussing the whole limbaugh and his politics thing. I AM discussing the issue of stem cell research.

Mike #67. I didnt say one senator could make a law. I am as well clued up as most of my countrymen on law making processes both here and there. Both countries essentially have a two house system. You have congress and senate. We have house of commons and house of lords.

Yes Law making is a very complex thing with committee stages and proposals and counter proposals etc. But to say that one senator cant make a difference is a very defeatist attitude and one I dont subscribe to.

As for your other comments, yes I agree that it is likey drug companies and charities will ship off research to other countries. I even stated in one of my posts that it will benefit us in the UK for that very reason.

I dont need to pull my head out. Its well and truly out. I call em how I see em and that isnt likely to change.

Oliver

70

Oliver F,

UK 27/10/2006 23:34:12

Sandy #68 & #70. Will you make up your mind if this debate is about stem cell research or not. In your post #68 you say this debate is about limbaugh and his politics not stem cell research. Then in post #70 you ask vet67 if he really does know anything about stem cell research.

Confused a bit are we? Thought so. Its so comical its almost tragic.

71

Jim,

Scotland 28/10/2006 01:38:50

I find it disturbing that a person who is obviously suffering a horrendous illness, and who puts himself forward as a high profile expondent to try and ensure publicity and funding for his, and thousand of others, affliction, is hounded by the media and accused of all sorts of ridiculous accusations of acting or not taking his medication. Any sane person, watching MJ Fox would have nothing but sympathy for the torture his life has become. He should be applauded for his strength in taking the spotlight, despite his condition. Any person attacking him should be ashamed of themselves. Life is fine when you hace your health, it certainly isnt fine when things start to go wrong with your health. What a weird world we are living in. Come on ,lets get a grip on reality here. Its not political, its not about acting, its about trying to make peoples life better if at all possible.

72

Oliver F,

UK 28/10/2006 10:29:28

Jim #73. Amen. Very well and coherently put.

73

sandy,

USA 28/10/2006 11:19:27

#73--MJFox--testified before Congress & told them he went off his med's for the hearing--after the hearing, MJFox--went on "60min" & said that when he makes public appearances concerning his condition, he goes off his med's, for the effect.since the hearing & "60min", MJFox has appeared on the TV show "Boston Public", on his med's. Limbaugh made his statement based on these facts.
MJFox didn't "put himself forward as a high profile expondent to try & ensure publicity & funding for his affliction", it was pure politics. existing "embryonic cells" ARE funded by the taxpayers,ie:gov't.
re-read #5--learn something!!!

74

Oliver F,

UK 28/10/2006 11:44:16

Sandy #75. What precisely is your point about M. Fox going off his meds. The level of ignorance about many conditions including parkinsons disease is something sufferers are always struggling against. By going "off his meds" M. Fox gave a much clearer picture of what living with parkinsons disease is like without treatment therefor giving the public a closer look at the effects of his illness. Once more I say I salute him for his courage.

As for this being political, its only due to the fundamentalists christain rights influence in banning funding for new "lines" of stem cell research that has made it political. Complaining then about M. Fox pointing out the different senators viewpoints on this is comical given that.

75

sandy,

USA 28/10/2006 12:54:10

#76-Oliver--MJFox made it political when he said the Republican didn't want to fund new lines of "embryonic stem-cell research", but didn't mention that he already has supported "existing" lines. it isn't that difficult to understand!! we the public know what the effect of this disease is. MJFox showed the world in 1999!! how do you think the funding came about! long before MJFox, many citizens of this country had Parkinsons disease, & knowledge & lobbying by the American people made the funding happen. i find it interesting MJFox
recently became a US Citizen. i thought the Canadian "cradle to grave" health care system was the best. perhaps they don't have the med's MJFox
requires. i think it's great he is able to get those med's here, so he can live a productive life & continue to act.

76

Oliver F,

UK 28/10/2006 16:15:22

Sandy #77. So now you are claiming he became an american citizen just to be able to get medication he needs? I somehow doubt this. Hes a man who has most likely earned a great deal of money during his acting career and should feasibly be able to fund any current treatments himself.

77

Janet,

Arizona Desert 29/10/2006 22:36:45

# 73 Jim in Scotland - I think I love you.

78

Jim,

Scotland 30/10/2006 04:38:14

Thanks Janet. I was saying out loud what i was thinking, after watching MJFox defending himself on CNN. I found it appalling that he felt the need to do so. Im also not going to react to "Sandy" as he isnt worth the breath it takes to write his comments.
I wish MJFox and all other sufferers of a serious illness the very best of luck. My father is terminally ill with cancer. Im sure in years to come there will be advances in science which would probably have saved him had he been fortunate to be alive a few years earlier. Need I say anymore Sandy ???


 

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