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Smoking ban real reason for pubs closing

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Published Date: 30 July 2008
Pubs are closing because smokers don't use them, and because the friends of smokers use them less because their friends aren't there.
And in exactly which part of Morningside did Ian Brocklebank, technical director of Camra, grow up? "Traditional" pubs were smoke-filled holes full of unwashed men swilling vast quantities of beer and whisky.



ALASTAIR HARWELL

Rattray Grove

Edinburgh





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 July 2008 9:34 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

truthsleuth,

30/07/2008 00:58:36
Pubs are suffering not because of the smoking ban but because of a change in lifestyle.
No longer are smokey smelly sawdust covered floors acceptable.
People want children/wife/mixed sex rooms with good food laid on.
The beer swilling yobs go to clubs or stay at home with a cheap six pack dreaming who they can next beat up.
2

DunCraig,

Ex-local 30/07/2008 03:53:38
The pubs in Morningside WERE smoke-filled holes PERIOD!. Bennetts, Canny Mans & The Merlin are no great shakes as pubs now but were infinitely worse 30 odd years ago
3

Guga II,

Rockall 30/07/2008 05:40:27
#1. Who wants to go to a pub full of noisy screaming children and assorted wives? In any event, they should be taking their children to much healthier environments, not pubs.
4

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 09:49:48
#1 - couldn't agree more. Any pub which is suffering 'because of the smoking ban' obviously isn't the sort which attracts other potenetial customers who would like to enjoy their drink/chat/food without the cloud of all pervasive smoke.

#4 - I take your point, but if you read your own post again, you never, at stage, mention the 'S' word!
5

G,

dundy 30/07/2008 12:37:03
Pubs that were failing before the smoking ban have failed now - big deal
I agree with Scallywag.....the smokers addiction to nicotine overrides all social mores ... the previous behaviour of smokers caused the smoking ban - if they or the pub owners had been reasonable a compromise would have been reached BUT they opted for no-compromise and the Gov caught them out!
6

Neil,

Glasgow 30/07/2008 15:38:31
"Truthsleuth" who wouldn't recognise the truth if it came up to him & bought him a double, is of corrse wrong again. If the sort of non-smokey pubs he mentions are really what "people want" then the smking ban must have been extremely popular & pubs must be expanding like never before. Meanwhile on planet earth....

The fact is that such pubs are only "popular" with the sort of people who pushed for the ban & who boasted that they hadn't been in a pub for 20 years but would start going as soon as they were all smokeless. At least pubs are still mercifully free of them.
7

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 18:15:26
#1:

Seeing as we have laws about drinking and driving, plus the fact that according to the pink and fluffy crowd, you shouldn't be doing it in front of your kids an any case, coupled with the fact that it costs considerably more to eat out than it does to cook at home, I cannot see what there should be a sudden explosion of child-friendly pubs.

Pubs are made for drinking in. Many people like to smoke when they drink. Those people have friends who enjoy their company---despite the fact that they are being "polluted by poison" as some of the more brain-dead so delicately put it.

Fact: You have to go outside to smoke now
Fact: Scotland's weather is usually inclement most of the year
Fact: Going outside is unpleasant in bad weather
Fact: Many pubs won't let you take your drink outside with you
Fact: The smokers are getting p****d off with this
Fact: So are their non-smoking mates because if they want to carry on the conversation, they must stand outside as well.

Conclusion: They decide to buy (cheaper) drink from the supermarket and all go round to someone's house instead where the smokers can smoke without going outside and everyone is happy.

Result: Pub trade is dropping off and pubs are closing.

It is a great pity and it's a shame that are politicians are more prepared to listen to stupid, jumped-up junk scientists and bigotted pressure groups with an axe to grind then to preserve communities and keep the British pub alive.
8

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 18:18:53
#11:

Something that SHOULD happen in Scotland, and the whole of the British Isles.
9

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 18:22:29
Neil, you are quite right.

It's not the smokers who are selfish, it is the rabid anti-smokers, who are thankfully in the minority.

10

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 18:27:47
Scallywag:

"However when he is told he needs to go outside for a fag he gives up 30 years of friendship so he can smoke in peace at home drinking Scotmid's own brand whisky and watching River City."

He doesn't give up his friendship at all. He takes his mates with him to his home. That is where the problem lies.

At present, around 30% of Scots smoke to some degree or other. Before the ban came in, the clientelle of the average pub was about 50/50 between smokers and non-smokers. In some pubs this ration could be as high as 75/25 in favour of the smokers If you are forced by (stupid) law to marginalise at least 50% of your customers, then your business is giong to suffer, no matter what business you are in.

This is basic economics mate. It's not rocket science.
11

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 30/07/2008 18:35:56
Curious:

"Any pub which is suffering 'because of the smoking ban' obviously isn't the sort which attracts other potenetial customers"

No. Of course it isn't the sort. That's what's known as freedom of choice. Different people prefer different pubs. The sort of place you would probably consider to be a "dive" (you're wrong but that's another story) is just up some people's street.

Not everyone goes for the "family friendly, ample parking, kids running around, soft piped music, extensive menu, stinking of stale food" kind of place. Many of us prefer something a little more gritty and down to earth.
12

Chuckles,

London 30/07/2008 19:07:37
Fuel head17 I think we are rather alike in our choices. Most of the sanctimonious Toyota Pious driving people on this thread should be allowed to have their smokefree pubs to enjoy but we want our smoking watering holes. It is after all the owner's property not theirs(antis) or the government's. Let the owner decide!
13

Bill Crombie,

30/07/2008 19:26:33
Scallywag and G - Your comments never hide the fact that apart from hating smoking, you actually hate smokers. In fact even when you got your own way on the smoking ban, you are still rubbing smoker's faces in it. Smokers are no less or more considerate than non-smokers, except to bigots like you lot.

People, yes smokers are people, deserve a choice of non-smoking and smoking pubs, clubs or restaurants. I see that the highest court in Germany has effectively overturned a blanket smoking ban TODAY and choice will prevail. It will happen here eventually - who said the Germans were not a freedom-loving bunch (good on them).

14

Spanners,

30/07/2008 20:49:38
Who said women don't want to smoke in Pubs too, they're one of the largest groups and want a ciggy and a drink just like every other man that enjoys a puff. So regards non-smokers lack of tolerance and "I don't want a smokey pub" why didn't they all go to Witherspoons when they had a no-smoking policy pre-ban?

The plac emptied and Witherpsoons U-Turned like the out-of-touch management team they are (ditto British clowns, sorry politicians!). When people have democratic choice between smoking and non-smoking they democratically avoid non-smoking venues and pile into the smokers stinking snake pit and don't seem to give a hoot for draconian Laws and State propoganda.

And the news Germany have overturned the ban today is fantastic. Their constitution was deliberately strengthened to prevent minorities with extremist agenadas peddling junk science (the Nazi were the first to ban smoking "for the health of the nation").

It was garbage then and it's garbage today after 2,000 health studies that cannot prove a link between smoking and health, let alone the phantom passive smoking dangers.

SMOKERS LIVE LONGEST - Madame Jeanne Claument (121). Britains oldest man Henry Alingham (112 last month). Ned Hughes, pipe smoker (108). Pipe smokers live an average 3 years longer than non-smokers.

Stick that in your pipe and cough your guts out Nanny State.
15

Paula,

30/07/2008 23:26:01
A few less pubs is not a great loss in the grand scheme of things.
16

Chuckles,

London 31/07/2008 00:29:43
Paula21 it may not be to you but it is if you happen to work in one of those at risk of closure.
17

Spanners,

31/07/2008 05:02:52
Paula, anyone vote you in to take a look at "the grand scheme of things"? You know, did anyone ask you to butt in to someones livelihood, many publicans hard working members of commnities for decades, losing their investment!

Many can remember the days of deomcracy, where creeps in jack boots didn't come round and measure your noise levels, check your spy cameras are compliant with the central State Marxists exact guidelines checking the Politburos anti-smoking signs are all up in exact positions on doors and windows.

1,600 new laws a year of trivia and pettiness so intrusive and maddening under this Nu Labour Gistapo. You may have been on another planet over the last 5yrs and don't know how f**ked off people are.

We're not talking about a few bars with happy hours here. We're talking about rural and corner street Pubs with nice social drinking being the hub of a community and working mens clubs for older people to chew the fat (soon to be banned) and go over old times.
18

matt02,

12/08/2008 19:35:55
I am a smoker and i bought an electric cigarette from www.friendlysmoking.com and it allows me to smoke back in the pub.

If you are a smoker and you miss having a cigarette indoors you should use one of these.
19

Spanners,

05/09/2008 01:06:58
Is your plastic dummy a substitute for real democracy?

Can I take and sell your house, replace it with a tent and you still feel happy with a tatty substitute?

 

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