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Bus drivers and cyclists put wheels in motion to heal their road rage rift

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Published Date: 17 November 2008
By CHRIS MARSHALL
THEY'RE not usually known for being the best of friends, but a new initiative is hoping to teach bus drivers and cyclists how to live happily side-by-side on the streets of the Capital.
Aiming for the sort of coming together that doesn't end up with grazed knees and a trip to A&E, the project has led to a series of posters being produced for bus drivers showing them how to avoid accidents with those on two wheels.

The scheme, which is a joint project between Lothian Buses and cycling group Spokes, hopes to train drivers to deal with common situations such as "leapfrogging," where buses and cyclists travelling at the same speeds constantly pass and repass one another.

Spokes' Gary Bell, who himself admitted to having had "full and frank" exchanges with bus drivers during his time as a cyclist, said the initiative hoped to encourage a less "adversarial" relationship.

He said: "We want to show that we have a lot in common with bus drivers and that we understand it can be frustrating to be stuck behind a cyclist on the way up Leith Walk.

"The stereotype is that cyclists are the people that bus drivers love to hate, but more and more motorists will have a bicycle in the garage as well. There are bus drivers who are cyclists and cyclists who are bus drivers."

Mr Bell said more and more drivers in the city are ditching their cars for the cheaper and greener two-wheel alternative.

As many as 20 per cent of commuters now use a bicycle to get to work in the Capital, according to Spokes.

The Lothian Buses posters aim to educate drivers about issues such as giving cyclists plenty of room to allow for clearing potholes and for "wobbles".

Lothian Buses' managing director Ian Craig said: "Limited road and congestion, especially in the city centre, inevitably means that buses and cyclists are in close proximity.

"Awareness and respect for each other's needs is therefore crucial to safety. Lothian Buses welcomes the opportunity to work with Spokes to promote understanding of issues faced by both bus drivers and cyclists."

Spokes also said it had been impressed by the way Lothian Buses had responded to a recent complaint by a cyclist about driver behaviour.

Film from the cameras mounted on buses involved in two incidents was examined to work out whether the driver should have been more careful, and it was agreed that both the driver and the cyclist had been at fault.

The organisation also recently produced a short film which charts what happened when a bus driver and a cyclist swapped places for the day.

Spokes said the film was an effective way of getting a range of safety messages across.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 November 2008 10:59 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lothian Buses
 
1

allknowing,

17/11/2008 11:57:39
"As many as 20 per cent of commuters now use a bicycle to get to work in the Capital, according to Spokes"

Dont speak tosh. Today I counted apprx 7 cyclists. I mudt have seen 100x cars!!!

Cyclists are menaces on the road. They are slow, wobbly, and most, but not all, dont know the rules of the road.

This leapfrogging buisness isnt only confined to buses, but also cars. Highly annying overtakign the same person again and again, when they should wait in line like everyone else, or, filter down the middle, but no, they insist on squeezing through small gaps when it suits, but get annoyed when they are squeezed themselves.
2

Grumpy,

17/11/2008 11:58:30
"the project has led to a series of posters being produced for bus drivers showing them how to avoid accidents with those on two wheels."

What about posters showing cyclists how to avoid accidents with those on four (or more) wheels? Like, stop cutting up the inside, wear reflective clothing, use lights, cycle on the correct side of the road, don't go through red lights.

We're always too ready to blame the bus drivers.
3

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 11:59:48
This is very welcome. From regular experience, Lothian bus drivers are generally fine with bikes (this initiative shows why perhaps). Can anyone say whether First Bus are also involved? They need to be because they are the problem. Their drivers are much more dangerous, passing too close and cutting in almost as if making a point.

There is a marked difference between the companies. I can only assume that it is because Lothian put more into training their drivers.
4

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:04:04
#2

Also posters advising cyclists how to avoid accident with those on two feet?

Like not riding on the pavement, and actually stopping at red signals when pedestrians are crossing at the Green Man?
5

Artemis,

17/11/2008 12:06:23
Oh, here we go, out come all the anti-cyclist whingers. Their predictability is laughable.

Like Cramondo, I find that on the whole Lothian Buses are very good. There are a few exceptions, but usually they're great. First Bus, on the other hand, seem to want us all dead.
6

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:07:57
#5

You think it's whingeing because pedestrians don't like being run over by bikes?

Of course, cyclists should just be able to do whatever the heck they want...
7

Artemis,

17/11/2008 12:11:12
Reading my post again, I can't see where I said that. Oh, you made it up.
8

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:13:05
#7

You mean like your bit about anti-bike whingers?
9

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:13:38
#1 You just don't like cyclists going past you when you're stuck in a traffic jam. Many motorists don't know the rules of the road, but we don't tar them all with the same brush, and they are far more dangerous than a cyclist because of their speed and weight. Did nobody teach you basic physics at school?
As with #3 and #5, Lothian Buses' drivers are generally very good, while First are not so good.
10

Brian Ferrari,

17/11/2008 12:14:50
It's quite simple really.

If a cyclist passes a vehicle, then a safe distance is 2 milimetres

But iff a vehicle passes a bike, then a safe distance is 2 metres.

Keep that in mind and you'll do just fine.
11

Bill W,

Ediinburgh 17/11/2008 12:15:42
Oh,these poor cyclists, no tax to pay, special lanes to travel in, a different Highway Code to the rest of us that allows them to totally disregard traffic lights and gives them the right to be at the front of all other road and pavement users at all time. No speed limits on public walk-ways - where are their 'speed bumps' sorry, 'Traffic Calming Systems'and one can only assume Bikes no longer have Bells in case they slow them down.
As a driver and a pedestrian I used to care for cyclists, but care and attention is two way thing and the current crop of cyclists see it as a 'one way' system regardless of 'which way'
12

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:15:46
Why do we need this?

If a bus driver cannot deal with cyclists, then he/she should not be driving a bus. Likewise, if a cyclist cannot deal with buses, then he/she should not be cycling.

Why do we require a campaign to address matters that should already be obvious to any competent road user?
13

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:18:39
I actually witnessed a cyclist getting hit last week.

No lights and almost dressed in black, apart from his dark green helmet.

You guys really are your own worse enemys in that regard.
Also, flashing rear lights. Please, leave it on steady, far much easier to see and less annoying!!!! Your not knight rider!
14

Zx,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:26:15
To the idiot who I beeped my horn at last week in Barnton Avenue - why were you cycling on the wrong side of the road with an illegal front light that could light up Wembley Stadium?
15

alex paterson,

edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:27:19
Bus drivers and cyclists will never be friends,cyclists are pests on the pavement but who can blame them as bus drivers think they are kings of the road.
16

,

17/11/2008 12:28:24
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17

Stray Fox,

17/11/2008 12:30:34
#1 Allknowing

Spouting a load of p1sh again. It's obvious you have wee kn0b syndrome!!
18

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:32:02
So many of the anti-cyclist comments on here suggest that if you abide by the rules, use lights, have reflective clothing, don't ride on pavements, don't run red lights etc etc etc that you will be respected on the road and treated well.

Erm. I do all of that and it gets me nowhere.

The simple fact is that, as a society, we don't give a damn about each other, and the roads are a microcosm of that - it's just more dangerous when you're talking about tonnes of metal and glass coming together.

Occasionally it all works sooooooo nicely. The other day an SUV was pulling out of a car park, saw me, and waited for me to pass. I pointed out, as I went past, that he didn't have his lights on. looked back, saw him pop them on, gave him the thumbs up. He then passed me with looooooaaaads of space, and stuck his four way flashers on in thanks.

It can work - so many people, on ALL sides, 'choose' not to make it work.
19

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:33:12
#16

I'm afraid pedestrians have an awesomeness factor of 14,762.

Segway: 926

Pogo stick: 831

Skateboard: 3.2

20

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:33:48
#17 is that the sum total of your debate?

I bet your Mum is proud!
21

Dorian,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:34:48
Much like most of the posts above, I have all the time in the world for cyclists who wear reflective high visibility clothing, use lights, indicate with hand signals what they are doing and don't go through traffic lights. As for the others, if they don't want to be seen by wearing high visibility clothing, don't know how to indicate what they are doing(i.e. I am just about to dart in front of your car and then shout at you for nearly hitting me or beeping your horn), don't have lights making it obvious that there is something other than a shadow moving at night then I am sorry but if you get into an accident you and you alone are to blame. Even with ABS cars can only stop so fast. I think all cyclists should have to sit a competency test, have their bike licenced(for free, but have a number plate) and be checked for approved lights(including orange flashy things called indicators).
22

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:36:01
#21

Well said.
23

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:37:42
Allknowing, I actually agree about filtering in general and doing it in the middle (i.e. on the right of queueing traffic) is actually safer (and is recommended in various cycling literature).

The proliferation of cycle lanes muddy the waters somewhat, generally being on the left. It creates a suggestion, certainly to inexperienced riders, that the left is the place to go past a queue. And then you get bits like the road through the Meadows heading west, when the cycle lane simply disappears, dumping you on the left without that dotted line that allegedly creates safety...
24

Bob 2,

17/11/2008 12:37:45
The organisation also recently produced a short film which charts what happened when a bus driver and a cyclist swapped places for the day.

that is worrying, no wonder my bus was going through red lights and mounting city centre pavements this morning!!!!!
25

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:38:50
On the licencing Dorian, at what age should people be allowed to sit their test and get the licence to be allowed to cycle?
26

Bob 2,

17/11/2008 12:39:07
Allknowing

Cyclists are menaces on the road. They are slow, wobbly, and most, but not all, dont know the rules of the road

are car drivers any better?
27

Stray Fox,

17/11/2008 12:39:11
#20 Yep she is!!

What about your mum - probably still doesn't know if you're a boy or a wee lassie??
28

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:39:16
p.s. I pretty much agree with everything else you said Dorian.
29

,

17/11/2008 12:40:52
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30

,

17/11/2008 12:41:45
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31

Brian Ferrari,

17/11/2008 12:42:35
To an extent it depends on the type of bike you sycle as to how much respect you get.

Racing bikes, mountain bikes (despite being the 4x4 equivalent) = a fair bit of respect

old style bike with curved handlebars and basket = bit of respect

BMX bike with the seat set way too low = no respect

Chopper = oh dear
32

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:43:23
#27

Just the same, equal number of crazy drivers, but this article is about cyclists, and not car drivers.

#28, come on , try harder, maybe take a nap then try some adult debating!!!
33

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 12:44:20
#30 Foo

"However I think you'll find skateboard is roughly 787.3"

- Maybe, for anyone aged about 10 and called Bart. However, for anyone old enough to shave or legally buy fags, I stand by my initial rating...

"Oh and trams. Well, they're 20 000 000."

- Is that pounds per metre?

34

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:45:00
#5, have you asked yourself *why* people turn into anti-cyclist whingers?

#18, I'm afraid that cyclists are a bit like the much-maligned 'hoodies' who hang around on the streets. So many people have had bad experiences of them that they tend - unfairly, but understandably - to tar them all with the same brush.
35

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:45:53
#31

Oh dear, maybe read Ants comment in post #24!!!!

You see, here is an adult engaging his brain and reading my posts. From his posts, if all cyclists were like him, the place would be better and safer for all!

Again, try and enage your brain before spouting your vile langauge.
36

,

17/11/2008 12:48:03
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37

,

17/11/2008 12:51:39
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38

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:51:58
#34 Skip,

What about pogosticks, or those things that look like saturnm( a ball with the plastic hoop attached to it, which you would stand on and bounce around the place)
39

,

17/11/2008 12:52:17
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40

Rob M,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 12:52:36
During the evening rush hour last week, I witnessed a cyclist, with no lights, come through the roadworks at Haymarket from Dalry Road on the red. With the fences round the road works restricting the width of the lanes, there was nowhere for him to go if he had met a bus or a lorry going the other direction. Assuming that this is his normal behaviour he is eventually going to be hit. But I suspect it will be the bus or lorry driver that gets the blame.
41

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:53:07
#38
Should i make that for three ???? ;-)

42

Langenburger,

17/11/2008 12:54:10
Cyclists are running riot all over the city on and off the roads and our authorities and law makers do nothing
I've personally seen three incidents in the last month in the meadows -they don't need to be in bus lanes to act like anarchists!
And with the dark nights and mornings there will be a serious incident in the meadows soon
43

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:54:10
#41

Its called the Darwin effect. He will soon be killed, and his stupid genes erradicated from the gene pool.
44

allknowing,

17/11/2008 12:56:14
ps where can i watch the film about the driver and cyclist changing places. Think that would be good to see.
45

Bill MacD,

17/11/2008 12:56:19
I'm a car driver myself. But I'm nonetheless dismayed by the dull-witted arrogance of so many car drivers complaining about cyclists here. It is a basic tenet of the rules of our roads that everyone (drivers, cyclists, pedestrians) have equal rights to use the roads. So the nasty selfish attitudes of the few drivers who ignorantly think roads are only for drivers and want to hog this space for themselves, and are almost certainly the ones who themselves recklessly risk other people's lives by breaking the rules of the roads as one sees on a daily basis, is quite disgusting. What a bunch of truly horrible halfwits write in these columns sometimes.
46

Stray Fox,

17/11/2008 12:59:26
#40, #42

I've always wanted a 3some with 2 girls!!
47

Linmal,

Livingston 17/11/2008 12:59:37
Personally I don't know why anyone would want to attempt to ride a bike in the City with the way the roads are at the moment. Cyclists are selfish. End of. They pull out without giving proper signals, suddenly become pedestrians (albeit on wheels) when they feel like it by riding on the pavement. Its not the first time I've almost been knocked down by one. And as for their use of the bus lanes, don't get me started. Yes it is frustrating for people, mainly not the cyclists! I wish they would go away and gies peace!
48

Brian Ferrari,

17/11/2008 13:00:14
#41

That's nothing. I was driving down Lothian Road this morning and saw a cyclist with no lights, dressed in tarmac black cycling directly towards me on the wrong side of the street, texting on her mobile at the same time as eating her breakfast and applying her makeup.
49

,

17/11/2008 13:00:41
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50

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:01:00
#46, I don't drive a car, but I do complain about cyclists. It may, as you say, be a basic tenet of the rules of our roads that everyone (drivers, cyclists, pedestrians) have equal rights to use the roads. But everyone also has a duty to obey red lights, and cyclists (whatever they may think) don't have equal rights with pedestrians to use the pavements.
51

allknowing,

17/11/2008 13:04:17
"#40, #42

I've always wanted a 3some with 2 girls!!"

maybe when you are 16, only 6 years to go.
52

A Leither,

17/11/2008 13:04:36
As others have said, I've found Lothian Buses to be very respectful of cyclists on the road. The other company whose drivers are excellent are ADM Milling in Leith. Textbook driving around cyclists and other road users. They could teach many other drivers a thing or two.

As for my fellow 'cyclists' who disobey all the rules, or ride around like Ninjas in the dark - don't get me started. As a responsible cyclist, these idiots really get me angry. Their actions lead to the usual EEN haters coming on and tarring us all with the same brush. As usual.
53

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 17/11/2008 13:09:09
What all the petrol heads on here should remember, is that cyclists were here first. Long before the car was even thought about, cycles ruled the roads.
It is the car that has brought about the need for traffic lights, traffic laws, speed humps, road markings, etc etc.

And it is the car that has brought all the road deaths, 3,000 per year in the UK, plus countless maimed and badly injured victims.

If the car was invented today, it would never be allowed in our cities and residential neighbourhoods, it would never pass the health & safety laws.
54

,

17/11/2008 13:09:28
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55

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 17/11/2008 13:11:01
#49 at least you saw her. If you can't see a large object in a well lit street, then you should not be driving in my opinion.
56

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:12:24
Urban Guerilla, at #35 you say that cyclists are 'unfairly' all tarred with the same brush, then at #51 apply quite a bit of tar...

Interesting to hear it said that cyclists are 'running riot' round the city, followed by 'three incidents in a month' seen in the Meadows. Pretty sedate riot that one.

As ever these things descend into name-calling. I'm not about to defend cyclists who do things that are a danger to themselves and (occasionally) others (I've heard it suggested that cyclists are a danger to drivers, not sure how that computes) but a sense of proportion os always lost when it comes to cyclists.

Other groups have law breakers within their ranks, other road users kill and injure more, what exactly is it about cyclists that attracts such vitriol? Why is a cyclist doing these things worse than anyone else doing it? Or do you shout at car drivers who run red lights, or pedestrians who step out without looking as well?
57

JT,

17/11/2008 13:12:31
As with all groups of society there are good and bad cyclists and bus drivers. I frequently have to move over on pavements to avoid the cyclist. When I did my cycle test at primary school we were told by a police officer that if you could ride a two wheeled bike you had to ride on the road or designated cycle lanes. Somehow this does not apply to those who buzz around the city on the pavements and unfortunately give those few cyclists who obey the law of the road a bad name.
58

allknowing,

17/11/2008 13:13:06
"And it is the car that has brought all the road deaths, 3,000 per year in the UK, plus countless maimed and badly injured victims"

So lets not mention trucks, buses, taxis, or cyclists.

Also, there would a lot fewer deaths if cyclists used some commonsense (as well as some drivers i may add)

But honestly, stationary traffic, car driver is just lifting the clutch up to move forward, and an all black ninja on a bike comes from the right, turns 90degrees in front of car, then 90 degrees again to go down the inside, isnt helpfull!!!!!
59

Artemis,

17/11/2008 13:13:07
#16 - what about spacehoppers?

Why are people so determined to make generalisations? The lawbreaking cyclists are a minority - even the police said so the other week - but if you believed what people post here, Edinburgh is overrun by invisible cyclists somehow going through red lights whilst simultaneously cycling on pavements and swerving all over bus lanes without indicating. They are the minority.

There is real, nasty anti-cyclist prejudice on these boards with level of vitriol which is never directed at reports of dangerous drivers, who are far more likely to kill or injure someone.
60

allknowing,

17/11/2008 13:15:23
"Or do you shout at car drivers who run red lights, or pedestrians who step out without looking as well?"

Yup, they are idiots as well, but this story is about cyclists.
61

,

17/11/2008 13:17:23
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62

PaulB,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:18:12
The big problem just now is the narrow lanes on main roads due to roadworks. For instance, on Leith Walk, there is nowhere else for cyclists to go, except in the bus lanes - I am sure most cyclists would prefer to have a different lane to use but it does cause problems and slow other traffic up. It just needs a bit of give and take from both sides. If you want to see vehicles running red lights, try the junction of Lothian Road and princes Street any day - not cyclists - but cars - often three or more after the pedestrian crossing has turned green! Cyclists are not perfect, but neither are many car drivers. Bus drivers tend to be considerate enough, despite what they have to out up with at the moment.
63

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:18:49
its is amazing how many cyclists

a) have no light at all
b) lights that fail to comply with regulations (ie flashing)
c) lights powered with dud batteries.

I was out on Friday night, and along a 2 mile stretch of road, there was one cyclist with one small obscure light, he or she had dark clothes on and just under the seat post was this "dimm" light.

how they've never been knocked off there bike, no one knows.
64

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:19:12
Glad to hear it allknowing - it just seems that articles on here about cyclists doing these things attract so much more bad feeling. I'm still unsure why that is (and someone WILL say "It's because cyclists think they can get away with it", but everyone who breaks the law thinks that, so it's not confined to 'cyclists').

Still wondering at what age, if we're bringing in cyclist registration and licences, people are not allowed to ride a bike before...
65

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:20:05
#64, Pond Hall - points (a) and (c) absolutely spot on.

Flashing lights have been legal for about 2 years now since the law was changed.
66

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:20:24
As many as 20 per cent of commuters now use a bicycle to get to work in the Capital, according to Spokes.

utter made up nonsense


67

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:22:18
#57, > Urban Guerilla, at #35 you say that cyclists are 'unfairly' all tarred with the same brush, then at #51 apply quite a bit of tar... <

True. Sorry. But some cyclists *don't* obey red lights and some cyclists *do* ride on pavements when they shouldn't, yet there is still a tendency for some cyclists (note the careful choice of words) to adopt a smug and holier-than-thou tone about cycling as a method of transport.

#60, > There is real, nasty anti-cyclist prejudice on these boards with level of vitriol which is never directed at reports of dangerous drivers, who are far more likely to kill or injure someone. <

Have you asked yourself *why* (some) people find (some) cyclists so annoying? Or do you think that people are just being nasty for no reason?
68

northborderer,

17/11/2008 13:24:29
I get angered by the cyclists who cut up motorists but when it happens try to ignore it, don't take revenge, imagine how you would feel if you struck one and badly injured them. Let them go, you will only be deleyed by seconds and not have a lifetime of regret.
69

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:25:22
UG #68 - people finding cyclists annoying I can understand, but why are they so much MORE annoying than other groups who do the same sort of things? (obviously not exactly the same - a car can't filter - unless you're in India, not long back from there and the roads are insane, but somehow work...)
70

I love to eat Sellotape,

17/11/2008 13:25:49
56.7% of the people on these boards are annoying.
12.4% have reasonable balanced views.
The rest are mince.
71

Artemis,

17/11/2008 13:26:00
Yes, I think people are being nasty for no reason. I don't understand why people are so much more vitriolic towards law-breaking cyclists than they are towards law-breaking motorists or law-breaking pedestrians. And I don't understand why so many people are determined to believe that all cyclists are law-breakers when all the evidence points to the fact that the law-breakers are the minority. The hatred directed towards cyclists is out of all proportion to the numbers who break the law and the damage that they do.
72

,

17/11/2008 13:27:43
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73

Skip McClendon,

17/11/2008 13:30:03
#60

I think the issue is that, when people see poor cycling, they feel powerless to do anything about it.

If I see a selfish git in a car running a red light, I can take his plate number and report him. That's if he hasn't already been flashed by a red light camera, for which he will be fined.

With poor cycling, if someone runs a red light or knocks someone over riding on the pavement, there usually absolutely no comeback against him. It's that type of imbalance that creates what you may perceive as anti-cyclist fervor.

If bikes were licensed, and had identifiers similar to car number plates, then people would feel less inclined to believe that cyclists were "getting away with it" when they break the law.
74

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:30:51
#73, you won't be surprised to learn that I don't agree with you. What's the excuse for some lycra lout to come whizzing along a pavement or to go careering round a blind corner so that we pedestrians have to leap in the air or scuttle for safety? is that ever justified?

It wouldn't be so bad if such lycra louts weren't so smug and arrogant and didn't give the impression that they regard pedestrians as not fit to be treated like human beings.
75

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:31:02
#73 - annoying mince makes a depressingly disappointing spaghetti bolognese
76

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:32:49
thanks for the info 66

the bits I've read on some websites, contradict the highway code, flashing tonight then, maybe some of the cars that pass me with inches to spare might see me

yip the highway code states

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit.
It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85).
White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen.
Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
77

,

17/11/2008 13:33:09
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78

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:33:58
heres a good one


rule 69 You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.


presume the same goes for cars!
79

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:34:22
#74 - Skip that's actually a pretty clear reasoning and lends a bit of understanding (though by the end of the day I'll bet there are more vitriolic comments on here than, say, a story about neds scamming benefits or unlicenced (and therefore equally untraceable) drivers).

I'd still like to see the cost-benefit analysis of registering every bike and/or cyclist in the country.

And again, does the registration begin at a certain age?

(It is nice to see people on here who actually want to engage and 'discuss' things rather than throwing insults... Group Hug!)
80

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:35:15
#78, yes, you're lucky. I see it a lot in the West End, where I work.
81

Anth,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 13:36:18
#77 - for what it's worth I use a lights which can have one row of (very bright) LEDs on steady and one on flashing. I'd never actually use just the flashing, there's evidence that while the flash might get you noticed earlier it actually makes judging distance more difficult - so with both you get the best of both worlds.
82

roadstohell,

17/11/2008 13:36:57
20% of commuters are cyclists !!!!
Nonsense, if that were the case Lothian Road would look like Tiananmen square !!!
I have some insider knowledge of how SPOKES conducts it's surveys, volutneers turn up with wee clipboards at various locations, chat away for an hour or 2, then just make up the figures to suit themselves .
:0/
83

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:38:51
The organisation also recently produced a short film which charts what happened when a bus driver and a cyclist swapped places for the day

maybe they could do a film showing what happened when a car drivers swapped with a cyclist

make a good scary movie
84

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 13:42:22
anth comment 82

thanks for that, will try that tonight..

Got 2 lights on the back, so will try one flashing
85

CycleStatMan,

17/11/2008 13:47:44
I'd like to see some of these irritated motorists get out of their little tin boxes and try walking, using a bus and even cycling!

They might understand better the perspective of our roads from a cyclist and from a bus driver.

It is very easy to be a brave warrior when you are safely tucked inside your fashionable little tank.

As for law breaking - everyone should stop it. Cyclists should obey red lights, not cycle on the pavement, use lights (filtering isn't illegal - however annoying it might be to you trapped in your little tin box). drives should wear seat belts, refrain from using mobile phones and obey the speed limits, indicate properly (especially on roundabouts).

To the ones that drone on about tax; I'm a cyclist and I pay tax. That's what pays for roads, not the VED. You can get away without paying VED if you choose a sensible car. Tax is based on the pollution your little tin box inflicts on everyone else. So can we stop the weak 'you don't pay tax' argument please, it is childish and it is wrong.
86

,

17/11/2008 13:57:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
87

,

17/11/2008 14:02:33
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
88

Dragonlord,

17/11/2008 14:19:56
86# Perhaps if cyclist were to obey the highway code and look before pulling out, ect, then they would get the repect they want.
Here's an idea, and would kill two birds with one stone,Take your bike on the bus, gets cyclist off the road and out of everyone's way, and stops wheel chairs users and buggy owners for fighting. a win, win situation if you ask me.
89

roadstohell,

17/11/2008 14:21:14
will it be possible to ride on to the new trams ? since they will be a fully integrated transport system, it may be possible to land @ Edinburgh airport, ride onto a tram, ride off @ Ocean Terminal and straight into your gov#t office without getting out of the saddle :0)
90

CycleStatMan,

17/11/2008 14:35:32
#89 You didn't read my post did you! Your fingers were jittering away just above the keyboard and you just couldn't help yourself typing some anti-cyclist dross!

91

Celtic Fan Steven,

17/11/2008 14:46:06
#1, Don't be an ar$e!
92

Celtic Fan Steven,

Doing a wheelie on the pavement 17/11/2008 14:49:46
As a cyclist, I have actually found the bus drivers to be the most courtious set of road users. The most dangerous are white van man, taxis and the t0ssers in their 4x4s who think they need to take up all the road.

BMW drivers could do with a slap as well.
93

charliecha cha,

17/11/2008 14:51:11
roll on ten quid a gallon.
94

regy,

17/11/2008 14:55:59
This morning on the motorway, I looked over to my left and there was a woman in a brand new BMW 4x4.

She must have been doing around 75Mph with her face up to her rear view mirror putting on her eyeliner.
I looked away for a couple of seconds!
When I looked back she was halfway over in my lane, still working on that makeup.
As a man, I don't scare easily, but she scared me so much; I dropped my electric shaver, which knocked the meat pie out of my other hand.
In all the confusion of trying to straighten out the car using my knees against the steering wheel, it knocked my mobile phone away from my ear.
This fell into the coffee between my legs, splashed,and burned Big Jim and the Twins, ruined the phone, soaked my trousers and disconnected an important call.
95

zzzz,

17/11/2008 14:56:31
Much in the same way we all have witnessed instances of rubbish cycling and rules of the road being disobeyed, exactly the same can be said for plenty of drivers in the city. As with cyclists not having lights, how many cars are on the road with defective headlamps and rear headlamps rendering them harder to see?

I'm sure a lot of cyclists are unaware of the HIghway Code, however I doubt there are many car drivers that could pass the theory driving test.

There are two sides to every argument, people just take the view of the one they're on. Oh and Im a driver by the way.
96

JFW,

New Town 17/11/2008 16:45:53
I'm a cyclist, pedestrian and driver, in equal measure - I know what it's like to be forced off the road by ignorant car drivers and as a result I will give any cyclist as much space as possible, even though there are some who deserve a good kicking for their stupidity. I still say that the proportion of cyclists who go through red lights or cycle on pavements or don't have lights at night is no way near the proportion of motorists who break red lights, ignore signs and speed limits, use their phones while driving, or generally show no respect for other road users. The folk who flout the rules of the road most often are the ones that are most likely to kill or seriously injure someone while doing it - motorists. There are good and bad bus drivers too and unfortunately I think the proportion matches that of good and bad car-drivers; however, they are professional drivers and the slightest hint of aggression should end their careers.
97

calum,

17/11/2008 17:06:12
Some of the comments on this story are pathetic. It is the responsibility of all road users - motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, motorcyclists etc.- to use that road properly and safely. There is no one group that is any better than the rest and I'm sure we can all cite bad examples of each.
However, the inane rantings and ramblings of trhe extremists on all sides really make me wonder if some of them should be using the road at all. Tomorrow, just try a little more courtesy and patience and see how that works.....
98

Frankly Mister Shankly,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 17:31:21
The Evening News should just copy all these comments and the next time they run a story on cyclists just paste it under the article, as it's the same c**p every time.


99

A Leither,

17/11/2008 17:54:06
#97 says "The reason is that cyclists are so bl00dy pious, with their holier than thou attitudes "we're saving the environment" etc etc, and the fact thet they are generally anti car, motorcycle etc."

Nope, not me, Fresian. I ride my bike because it's faster to get to work that way, I enjoy it, it's cheap and it keeps me fit without having to pay a fortune to one of those poncey Health Clubs or gyms.

The only thing I'm anti are those who break the rules of the road, whether they be pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists or drivers. Oh yeah, and the usual anti-cycling ranters that appear whenever a cycling story appears on the EEN website ;-)
100

A Leither,

17/11/2008 17:55:55
#100 - spot on ! :-)
101

Lord_S,

Edinburgh 17/11/2008 18:00:26
Why do drivers moan about cyclists jumping red lights or cycling on pavements? Do you actually want to be stuck behind them at 4mph up a hill? Seriously, think about it. If they're on the pavement they're not slowing drivers down or reducing the bus to 9mph. Yes, cyclists ARE often that slow. I also refuse to believe that pedestrians will be crippled when a cyclist carefully rides past on the pavement. It just doesn't happen. Some common sense please!
102

The real dracula,

17/11/2008 18:02:25
Funny this article should be in tonight's news I have just a few hours ago nearly 'taken out a cyclist ' he/she came out of nowhere , no lights , no helmet and dark clothing except for a red jacket. He she nearly sideswiped my slowing down car I did a near emergency stop or I'm quite sure they would have been under my wheels.

They definitely would have been injured , my passenger at the time was nearly crying she had such a fight .

I stopped to get out and speak /shout at him /her/it and it sped off thru a red light sticking the finger up.

I wish there had been a cop car there cos it would have been done for dangerous road use.

Passed another cyclist in musselburgh again no lights , helmet but no near miss cos I saw them.

Don'T worry cyclists you take no responsibility for your own lives.

You should be made to go down to the mortuary to see the results of your carelessness.

I know not all cyclists are like this but there is always a few a day.

TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY /AVOID A TRAGEDY OR GET OFF THE ROAD (and the pavements)
103

Andyfromedinburgh,

Still in Edinburgh 17/11/2008 18:55:13
Lets face it most car drivers are bullies, unless faced with a bus or truck!

On most car journeys I take I see 5 or 6 bad drivers moving lanes, turning at junction, etc without indicating (very common), jumping lights (common), speaking on mobile phones (still!), driving with one light (count them!), speeding.. as for parking... Thoughtless and selfish.

Compared to the number of bad cyclists.... perhaps once a week.

Come on ...its safe to rant on at cyclists week after week, you'll be on at trams next or maybe immigrants...

Take on a real challenge, take on something where you are all in the minority.

104

Bob 2,

17/11/2008 19:00:49
104 the real Dracula

funny last Friday, on foot on Princes street,
waiting at a crossing
"green man" shows
yet 3 cars continued through the RED LIGHT
so when crossing checked the lights
guess what it was RED

has anyone met the perfect road user !
105

The real dracula,

17/11/2008 19:07:21
I disagree with you totally no105 how can you accuse most car drivers are bullies ,,,,,,,how childish is that.
When I pass a cyclist I give them the same amount of room as a small car. I dont expect them having nearly caused an accident to childishly stick the finger up and cycle off into the darkness in their invisible outfit.

Poor cycling doesnt happen once or twice a week it happens several times a day.
Yes so do drivers but the cyclist is going to be the one that comes off worst.
I dont want it on my conciense that someone has died under the wheels of my car even if it isnt my fault ,,,,I would still be distraught.
And in response to your post its not just bad cycling ,on a daily basis I see many cyclists no helmets , no lights no hi vis clothing and the best one many many seem to have earphones in ,,,,,thats really safe isnt it.
106

James (1),

17/11/2008 19:19:06
Hold it just a minute! When did cyclist start using the road?
My recollection was buses use the road and cyclists use the pavement.
I tell you this world is going crazy! Cyclists on the road, indeed!
107

tumshie heid,

17/11/2008 19:43:53
#59 Perhaps if the "stationary drivers" you mention paid attention to their highway codes and looked in their mirrors before moving off they would spot an approaching cyclist.
It is easy to find examples of any form of motorist/cyclists bad behaviour but I can't believe how vitriolic some of the posts are.How can people justify the way they are judging all cyclists by the actions of a few?
As a road user myself I could easily rant on about individual groups but it is individuals who do things.
108

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 19:49:20
107 real dracula

must agree with most of your post

even tonight on my bike, going through Holyrood park
cyclist in front jacket on and light at rear,
but for some reason they had put a parcel on there "rear" , guess where , blocking there lights.

I've stopped at lights only to see Cyclists go through them, as you say "challenge" them and you get a load of abuse.

Cycling with earphones in must be one of the most dangerous things many cyclists are doing just.

there are a lot of bad car drivers, must save 2 seconds, by overtaking the cyclists.

Ooops theres a car coming along on the other side of the road , must pull in.

Of course car drivers are perfect, they observe the highway code at all times.

theres the classic "speed" test

every morning ,despite countdowns signs to a 30mph limit and a big sign with 30 in the middle, the majority of cars still manage to get the "speed warning" sign to go off" 35/38mph, they brake and then off they go again.

now what does 30 mean?
109

Twonk,

midlands 17/11/2008 19:50:08
Yeah! Split their nose open with a boat hook!


Who are we talkin' about?
Yawn.
110

The real dracula,

17/11/2008 19:55:47
No I know there is no way car drivers are perfect far from t , hey break the rules every single day. I try not to but I guess there has been occaisions where Ive sped up to get thru an ORANGE light , dont do red , cant afford the fine and times the speed signs have indicated I should slow down but I dont use my mobile whilst driving and I dont 'cut' cyclists up. I try not to get in a 2 fingers 1 finger situation but it has happened.

My whole point is these cyclists whether they break the rules or not are risking their lives and as I said I dont want a dead cyclist in my mind till the day I die !!!!!!!!!
111

The real dracula,

17/11/2008 20:00:56
I might add this was brought home to me tonight by the near miss.
With my slight skill of using brakes and a hell of a lot of luck that the cyclist didnt end up under my wheels .

So Im glad Im at home rather than giving a statement to police and watching an amb take someone to A&E or the city motuary.

You know what tho Im still thinking about it , considering all the cyclist did was give me the finger Im quite sure he/she doesnt give a $hit.

Thats the difference ,,,, I do
112

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 20:03:30
105 Andy from edinburgh,

Compared to the number of bad cyclists.... perhaps once a week.

do you actually travel around edinburgh and the surrounding area.

I'm no perfect cyclist, but One, pull the other one.

And there are courtesy drivers,

Even this morning, I had slowed down to make a right turn, had slowed down on the left to make sure it was safe, looking back, the driver had seen me and let me out, i hadn't done the " classic " stick the hand out and pull out into the middle of the road. It ain't worth it?

Lothian Bus Drivers are far better than FIRST bus drivers.

"look", signal , manoeuvre (if it is safe to do so)



113

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 20:11:37
"You know what tho Im still thinking about it , considering all the cyclist did was give me the finger Im quite sure he/she doesnt give a $hit"

but if you had hit them, they'd be giving you more abuse.
yip it make you "shake", even puts you off your driving the fright they give you

totally agree there's a certain "arrogance" about some cyclists, law unto themselves, total disrespect for other road users and pedestrians.

best one was during the summer on the way home.
cyclist went through three red lights within half a mile.

the best one was at a pedestrian crossing, where he mounted the pavement to go round the crossing, tough to any pedestrian
114

Pond Hall,

17/11/2008 20:15:15
other classic was at Jocks lodge a month or so ago.

classic cyclist,

Red Light ,
na not for me he says
so he stops the other side of the stop line, past the crossing area.
Starts to nudge forward at the red
So when the lights go to green
His Red Light Gamble nearly cost him his life
a motorist with the same attitude had came through the red light.

So he nearly paid for his dangerous cycling


the worst thing is , theses are grown adults, not young kids on bikes!
115

The real dracula,

17/11/2008 22:07:59
Pond hall
One of the other worst things is some are not wearing a helmet. Their skulls will smash like an eggshell when they hit the road surface.

So whether your a good or bad cyclist WEAR A HELMET
116

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 17/11/2008 22:37:30
buses.trams.bikes.cars.prams..does.anybody.walk
117

James (1),

17/11/2008 23:45:16
#119 does.anyone.type.without.using.a.full.stop.after.every.word.?
118

James (1),

17/11/2008 23:46:06
why.do.you.type.this.way.?
119

Artemis,

18/11/2008 09:37:04
It's not an offence to cycle without a helmet and there's plenty of evidence to suggest that helmets can increase risk to cyclists. They're beggar all use against being hit by a vehicle travelling at 30mph but they might be some use against head injury when falling over in a clipless moment.

It's not an offence to use an mp3 player while cycling, any more than it's an offence to listen to the radio while driving.

It's not an offence to cycle without wearing hi-viz, any more than it's an offence to not paint your car in luminous, fluorescent and reflective paints.

#104 - you posted at 6pm saying "a few hours ago" you saw a cyclist with no lights. A few hours before 6pm, it was daylight.

Urban Guerilla thinks cyclists are smug and arrogant, although I know he hasn't spent time talking to all of them, so his thoughts are just his thoughts, not fact.

What really hacks me off about this is that here is a cycling group trying to work with a bus company to improve things for everyone, and we have cyclists saying it's a good idea although Lothian Buses are generally pretty good and it's First Bus who are the problem, we have no comments from bus drivers as far as I can see, and 100 comments from people looking for any excuse to roll out their anti-cyclist whinging again. And it's always the same whinges based on stereotyping all cyclists because of the actions of a few.

That article in the EN the other week about so many drivers not having insurance didn't attract 100 comments from people complaining that all drivers are reckless, so why has an article about cyclists and Lothian Buses doing something positive attracted so much anti-cyclist bile?

Do you think that perhaps at least some of the cyclists who cycle illegally on the pavements do so because they're terrified of the mentality of Edinburgh motorists as shown on these comments pages?



120

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 18/11/2008 10:01:46
#122, > Do you think that perhaps at least some of the cyclists who cycle illegally on the pavements do so because they're terrified of the mentality of Edinburgh motorists as shown on these comments pages? <

I'm not an Edinburgh motorist. I've never driven a car and never intend to. I'm an Edinburgh pedestrian and it makes me really angry that some cyclists (note, "some" cyclists) don't give a damn for my right to use the pavement.
121

CycleStatMan,

18/11/2008 13:03:31
#123 Have you considered Anger Management?

Yours does sound an extreme response.

#117 the real dracula. Do you wear a helmet in your car? Far more head injuries occur in cars than on bikes.
122

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 18/11/2008 14:58:21
#124, sorry. I obviously shouldn't expect to be able to walk safely on the pavement. But I can remember the days before they passed the law saying that cyclists can do no wrong and cyclists even had bells on their bikes to warn one of their approach.
123

The real dracula,

18/11/2008 21:24:16
#124 Was your comment a laugh ???
I work in an A&E dept and I can assure you there are many many more head injuries to unprotected heads on cyclists and pedestrians .

Ther are very few head njuries in car drivers , due to a thing called airbags , car drivers mostly hurt necks , chests and lower limbs so Im afraid you couldnt have been more wrong.

You have obviously never seen a cyclist ( not wearing helmet) with a caved in head plus skull fracture after their head hits the road. I have many times and its not pretty ,its also life threatening.

 

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