Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


2000 sign up to call to end pram bus ban

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 17 October 2008
CAMPAIGNERS are set to hand in around 2000 signatures to the Scottish Parliament today, calling for prams and buggies to be allowed on buses.
They are protesting against Lothian Buses' controversial policy, which they say discriminates against parents with babies.

All eight candidates in the Forth ward by-election signed the petition, saying they will continue to put pressure on the bus
company if elected. They join MSPs, councillors, disability groups and the Equality and Human Rights Commission in opposing the ban.

The petition is due to be considered by the parliament's Public Petitions Committee on Tuesday, November 4.

Caroline Burgess, 27, of Barnton, who started the campaign after she was refused access to a bus in the summer, said: "It's fantastic to receive such universal support for our campaign. All we want is access to public transport. It's crazy that Lothian Buses has allowed this to go on so long when everyone is clearly against their ridiculous policy."

Catriona Black, who started the petition seven weeks ago, said: "I never dreamed our petition would attract so many signatures. With support from across the political spectrum, I hope Lothian Buses will finally sit up and listen.

"They have steam-rollered this unfair policy through without any thought for the parents and babies who will suffer and sooner or later they will have to move into reverse."

Lothian Buses has insisted their policy is to conform with the Disability Discrimination Act and ensure space is kept free for wheelchair users.

The company says only fully foldable prams and buggies are allowed on buses, although campaigners say these are not suitable for children under six months. The company has said it does not intend to change the policy.

Seven out of the eight council candidates joined parents in person outside the Scottish Parliament yesterday in their final push to collect signatures.

Kate Joester, a mother-of-two, who is the Green candidate, said: "They've got to see sense soon. We want to bring up a generation who use public transport rather than being dependent on cars."

Iain McGill, the Conservative candidate, added: "This is having a serious effect on parents with young children. Lothian Buses should follow other companies, such as First, who have a more flexible approach."

George Gordon, the SNP candidate, Lib Dem candidate Sanne Dijkstra-Dowie, Independent John Loughton, and Labour's Cammy Day have all said they are supporting the campaign. Willie Black of Solidarity, and Socialist Robert Richard have also signed the petition.

The mothers took to the streets around Princes Street and Holyrood this week, gathering hundreds of signatures, and they won support from many bus drivers when they protested outside Lothian Buses HQ on Tuesday.







Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 October 2008 10:46 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Lothian Buses
 
1

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 12:00:29
It really is beyond me that so much fuss is made over a stupid, wrong decision by one man who is too pig-headed and arrogant to admit that he got it wrong.

Once common sense has prevailed, sack him.
2

Linmal,

Livingston 17/10/2008 12:05:43
Good - maybe now we will see an end to coverage of this boring tale.

I just hope common sense will at last prevail and that if a mother with a pram is allowed on the bus she is made to leave if a wheelchair user comes on. Better still, that she volunteers to get off when the wheelchair user comes on.

Now forget all this and get on with your lives.
3

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 17/10/2008 12:34:16

Oink! Oink!
4

Alice in Embraland,

17/10/2008 12:37:19
2000 signatures from a city the size of Edinburgh? Or were they the only ones who could write?
5

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 17/10/2008 12:57:15

Baa baa
6

upthehill,

Leith 17/10/2008 12:58:17
I think Hazel Mollison deserves an award from the Queen once the powers that be finally back down and realise that they made a mistake, and change their decision.

She's finding a new angle on this story every week!

7

Douglas,

Bathgate 17/10/2008 13:00:53
Why worry about buses? The cutting edge tram will be here soon with room for all! :o)
8

the dog,

embra 17/10/2008 13:04:11
ok i give in, i believe these ladies would vacate the "wheelchair" space if required but would they also be prepared to suffer the torrent of abuse from jakey and his burd that the driver will no doubt suffer when he asks the scum to allow a wheelchair on, no i dont think so.
no one has ever said that babies are banned from buses, all thats asked is that if you intend to travel by bus a bit of thought is put into the choice of buggie purchased just as you would if you drove everywhere in a mini, ie you wouldn't buy the full silver cross number.
#5 i think you are confusing the 2000 with the scum that cause the trouble
9

the dog,

embra 17/10/2008 13:07:02
i still wont be signing it though
10

elayne,

17/10/2008 13:10:39
i dont care,my kids are grown up!
11

Duncan in Edinburgh,

17/10/2008 13:14:06
I walked past a group of people collecting these signatures outside John Lewis. I would have been happy to give my opinion but they appeared not to be interested in asking me, and were focused instead on female passers-by.

It seems to me that the *only* problem we have is the ticketing policy of Lothian Buses, which means that a single ticket cannot be used for a multi-bus journey. To be honest it's a perfectly reasonable policy when you consider that a single ticket is valid for any length of journey. But it does pose a problem for people who are forced to interrupt their journey by, for example, having to vacate the wheelchair space for a wheelchair user.

The pragmatic and common-sense policy that Lothian Buses have adopted, then, is to only allow on those who would be able to fold away their buggies in the event that the space is needed, and who would therefore be able to complete their journey uninterrupted.

Unfoldable buggies, and prams, could currently only be allowed on on the basis that they might be asked to disembark at every stop, and pay for another single ticket for the next available bus.

Instead of bleating about discrimination, I would suggest the organisers of this petition engage on a pragmatic level about ticketing policy, because it is the route to a solution here.
12

Chris,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 13:16:00
#2, rs,. of a story thats still going on: There are more mums with big prams than wheelchair users, so, with a by-election due, it is fairly obvious what the candidates are going to say. What happens after the by-election will be a different matter.
Petitions are fine, but it depends on the wording doesn't it?
How many mums would willingly take their pram off the bus to allow a wheelchair user access to the space? Very, very few I suggest. Most would just pretend to be absorbed by what is passing the window - exactly as many people do when an infirm pensioner wishes to use the allocated seats.
13

JT,

17/10/2008 13:23:54
Can we get a petition going to stop the trams please?
14

PaulB,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 13:29:31
There is no pram ban - there is a policy which is sensible and is a compromise between different users. Give us a break from this - day in day out - it is utterly tedious.
15

,

17/10/2008 13:33:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

elayne,

17/10/2008 13:35:25
you folks have it good in edinburgh,you should try living here,it costs £5.80 return for a 4 mile journey and the bus drivers allow prams and wheelchairs on(when i say wheelchairs i in fact mean those motorised scooters which a lot of morbidly obese people use as mode of transport)also loud chav mums who eff and curse for all to hear,smelly people in abundance and late/non existant buses etc
17

Sha d,

edinburgh 17/10/2008 13:38:30
I look after a severely disabled young man and much of his geting around is dependant on lothian buses. We hadn't had any major issues until july this year when we had to wait 45 minutes and miss 4 buses. The first bus to arrive had a buggy so I let it go by.The next three also had buggys who refused to make way for the wheelchair saying their buggys didn't fold!! The driver was sympathetic but could only ask but they refused to move.Recently I have had to put up with people folding the buggy but behaving in a very offhand manner. I know this isn't a majority but there is many more than just one or two who will not behave in a way that will ensure wheelchair users to have the accessability they require and NEED!
18

Douglas,

Bathgate 17/10/2008 13:39:39
#21 thank god i left: Is that what kids get down your way when they ask for a Wii? :o)
19

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

17/10/2008 13:41:49
well, i have just created a counter petition to stop prams on buses because quite frankly i am sick of this dugcrap.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/noPramsLRTbuses

Once it is approved , please get everyone you know to sign it.

Hazel , away and get a life.
20

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 17/10/2008 13:44:13

EEEawww EEEawww
21

thank god i left,

LIVERPOOL 17/10/2008 13:44:16
#24 pretty much
22

Mallory,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 13:52:49
well done #25

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/noPramsLRTbuses

as soon as it is ready

pass it on your mates
23

,

17/10/2008 14:15:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
24

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 14:32:25
My ex-wife came home early one afternoon and just as she came in the door the telephone rang so she answered it.
'Who was that on the phone?' I shouted from the kitchen.
'It was a wrong number, darling', she said 'some fellow looking for the Met. Office.
“What on earth did he want?”
“He wanted to know if the coast was clear'
25

PaulB,

17/10/2008 14:36:41
Well done #25

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/noPramsLRTbuses

Let's get more than 2,000 signatures onthis petition -

#32 - love it!
26

Number1,

17/10/2008 14:40:29
''The mothers took to the streets around Princes Street and Holyrood this week, gathering hundreds of signatures, and they won support from many bus drivers when they protested outside Lothian Buses HQ on Tuesday.''

I walked past this mob to get to my work on Tuesday, the drivers they harassed only said they supported it, so they didn't get a load of abuse and be held back from their dinner break!
27

James (1),

17/10/2008 14:51:19
So these accommodating mothers are not so accommodating after all as #23 has shown. Also as #17 has observed if they only ask women then the chances are they will get what they want. When will men get to vote? Votes for men is what we want! We want to be treated the same as women. We also suffer from PMT admittedly we need a women to be in the room but we still suffer.
28

elayne,

17/10/2008 15:12:08
#31 bleach has been known to remove "offending" marks from toilet,also bicarb of soda made into paste by adding water,put onto offending area,leave for 15 mins,then scour with scouring pad(remember your rubber gloves!)flush,and your lavvy will be sparkling!
29

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 16:13:25
Move along now, nothing to see here.
30

bumf,

17/10/2008 16:27:27
Thanks Ghengis. You've saved me the bother of reading all the previous posts. Are there any interesting stories/threads today?
31

JWard,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 16:33:09
This is a ridiculous non-story.
Buggies and Prams that are foldable are allowed onto Lothian buses.
Unfoldable buggies that are the size of a small car are not.
It is a sensible policy and any mother signing this petition is showing either her ignorance or her contempt for other bus users and the disabled.

32

rabmataz,

17/10/2008 16:36:47
Glad to see these breeders are happy to ride roughshod over decades of hard work by disability activists to get fair and equal treatment put into legislation.
33

gus1940,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 16:53:07
#19

If JP started a petition to scrap the trams it would get 10's if not 100's of thousand signatures.

Think about it JP - people might just start to respect your papers again which would be even further enhanced if you were to start reporting the unbiased truth in political coverage.
34

qohldr,

17/10/2008 17:05:15
Discrimination.
Unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice
35

qohldr,

17/10/2008 17:16:07
Oops pressed the wrong button.
As I was saying.
Discrimination.
Unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice, here we have two groups of people both crying discrimination.
The wonderful thing about discrimination laws is that when they are made to protect one group then another group inevitably end up being discriminated against.
To me the solution is simple, treat every one equally (in this case) if a person is waiting for the bus and there is no room on it for them then they wait for the next one.
36

sazm,

edinburgh 17/10/2008 18:03:05
Once again first come first serve! Disabled people and parents are both capable of waiting.
37

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 18:27:25
Some of the new single-decker buses have the row of seats at the front left reduced down single seats, thus providing more space for wheelchairs and prams. Why can't they use these buses for the problem routes?
38

The real dracula,

17/10/2008 19:43:41
I have a suggestion mums why don't you walk or leave your often noisy child with its daddy. Try carry babies in a body sling
Along with all this bus nonsense personally I find prams and push chairs intensely annoying to navigate around when shopping.
So personally Id ban them all from public areas.
And mums your kids have no right of priority just because you think they should have.
You and your child have a choice , disabled people dont.

Now for gawds sake give it rest , you are boring the rest of us to tears
39

elayne,

17/10/2008 20:29:06
#39 yes i pride myself on my pristine lavvy,you can eat your dinner in it
40

Douglas,

Bathgate 17/10/2008 20:43:35
#52 dracula: Have you ever tried to skin up with a sprog in tow? Small tables would be a boon, somewhere to put both phones and the can of Red Bull.

elayne#53: No 5hit? :o)
41

Julian.,

edinburgh 17/10/2008 22:20:15
#33 PaulB

No petition exist on that link you put down. In fact no petition exists on the whole site.

Does anyone know the exact wording of this petition?

#55 RS,

Exactly. What utter arrogance from Caroline Burgess. Every time this story appears on this forum most of the posts are in favour of the ban....makes you wonder about the rest of this woman's tactics when she makes comments like that. I wouldn't be surprised if the wording on her petition is misleading as well.
42

Julian.,

edinburgh 17/10/2008 22:25:21
#45 qohldr

Nothing's that simple my friend. The issue here is that we have a wheelchair user who can't avoid being in a wheelchair having his or her space taken up by a mother who can avoid having a non-foldable pram.

By your logic it could be argued that the wheelchair user can't get on the bus if the space is being taken up by someone carrying a large object. Going by what you said they would then have to wait on the next bus.
43

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 17/10/2008 23:15:19
It's funny when 2000 people object to a PC issue the council rethinks or steps in (they are going to) but when something as rediculous as the trams are objected to by tens of thousands of people they just plough on regardless -- this is selective democracy and stinks to high heaven of corruption ... as usual.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.