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Truth forum 'will give a voice' to victims of Scots care homes abuse

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Published Date:
08 February 2008
A TRUTH and reconciliation body will be set up to "publicly acknowledge" the abuse inflicted upon thousands of children in residential homes in Scotland, the Scottish Government has announced.
The move could see the perpetrators of abuse being brought face to face with their victims, in many cases several decades after the offences occurred.

It could also result in formal apologies from the Catholic Church, Quarriers, local authorities and other groups which ran children's homes at the centre of Scotland's abuse scandals – and promises to lift the lid on the full extent of the atrocities.

However, the concept of a truth and reconciliation forum is also a tacit admission that many abusers will never be brought to justice – a fact that enrages many who still bear the psychological scars of their abuse.

A consultation will be held over the detail of the project, led by Shona Robison, the public health minister, with officials set to examine the famous Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, as well as other schemes in New Zealand and Northern Ireland.

Announcing the plan, Adam Ingram, the children's minister, said: "None of us should forget the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that has taken place in Scotland's residential care homes, perpetrated by the very people who should have been providing support. It would be inexcusable for us not to confront what happened. It's time for us to demonstrate our commitment through actions."

Ms Robison added: "The move towards a Scottish truth and reconciliation forum will benefit victims of historical abuse by providing them with a platform to voice their experiences whilst giving public acknowledgement to what happened.

"For many (abuse] survivors, an acknowledgement of the abuse they suffered would be more beneficial than monetary compensation."

A spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said the scheme could lead to reports being published into the extent of abuse in children's homes, although individuals' identities would be kept secret.

The administration also announced a national "hub" service to assist victims in accessing help such as psychiatric services, better training for residential child-care staff and a review of the law to address shortcomings in public records held on children in care.

The move follows a review of historical abuse of children in residential care by independent expert Tom Shaw, a former chief inspector of education in Northern Ireland. The report was triggered in 2004 when the then First Minister, Jack McConnell, publicly apologised to children who were abused while in care.

But hundreds of victims from residential schools and homes such as Nazareth House, Quarriers, Kerelaw and De La Salle have been unable to come to terms with the physical, psychological and sexual abuse they suffered and are angry at the lack of public acknowledgment and concern for their suffering.

With abuse dating back, in some cases, as far as the 1930s, relatively few people involved have been prosecuted, while evidence is often difficult to corroborate.

Kathleen Marshall, Scotland's children's commissioner, said: "Most people desperately want to be heard. They want an apology. This could provide that opportunity."

'Now it's time for us to be heard'

ELIZABETH McWilliam no longer wants to hide in the shadows, struggling on her own to cope with abuse she describes as "atrocities".

"We've been the silent minority. Now it's time for us to be heard," says the 70-year-old, one of hundreds of children abused by staff at Quarriers homes in Scotland in a period spanning decades. She says that she "just wants the truth". But reconciliation is another thing.

"I will never forgive and forget. The government must make these people face up to what they've done."

But she says a truth and reconciliation forum could help Scotland to move on from the shame of its past. "This is a new dawn, a new horizon for children in care now," she says. "We've got to look forward to the future."

However, Adeline Spence, 45, from Glasgow, is less convinced.

Ms Spence, who was abused by nuns at Nazareth House children's home in Cardonald, said: "I don't know what difference it will make. These people need to be taken to court."

'OUR NATIONAL SHAME'

THE abuse inflicted on children in residential care was described four years ago as Scotland's "national shame" by the then First Minister, Jack McConnell.

Adam Ingram, the children's minister, has already announced an inquiry into allegations of – and convictions for – child abuse at Kerelaw, a residential school and secure unit in Ayrshire that sparked Scotland's biggest child abuse investigation before it closed in 2005. However, that was just the latest in a succession of abuse scandals in residential institutions for children.

The list has grown in recent years. It includes: Larchgrove, a council-run children's home in Glasgow; Blairs College, a seminary in Aberdeen; St Ninian's, a school run by monks, the De La Salle Brothers, in Gartmore, Stirlingshire; and Nazareth House, a chain of Catholic children's homes.


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  • Last Updated: 07 February 2008 11:02 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Social Work
 
1

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08/02/2008 01:34:34
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08/02/2008 02:14:31
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08/02/2008 02:29:33
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Cabbage Patch Troll,

08/02/2008 02:31:23
Saved!
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08/02/2008 02:32:48
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6

Patricia M,

England but Scottish 08/02/2008 09:03:15
It`s about time. I know there have been coverups over the years unless you fought to the death with social work or councils. Open it all up i say. no more coverups to keep s ome clean and give references for other jobs after getting rid of them.
7

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

08/02/2008 09:35:09
I love it when religeous orders have difficulty investing their billions but then complain when their govt allowance is cut.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/08/nheritage108.xml
8

Kim McLaggan,

McAdam Canada 08/02/2008 10:29:10
Gee the chuch and govenment covering things up,than saying were sorry and hope thats ok,same happened here inregards to the First Nations People of Canada and they had to fight for years to get proper compensation,meanwhile lives were ruined,hopefully the Scottish Govenment will move fast now that the truth is out and those responsible have to face justice,the victims deserve that,its about justice to them!!!
9

Roberta Burns,

08/02/2008 12:00:03
How dare they enven consider that the abuse carried out against the young and the vulnerable by people in positions of complete power over them can be whitewashed away with a wee word that has no meaning any more.

They should have all been rounded up years ago, their faces made public and their punishment fit the crime.
10

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08/02/2008 12:18:13
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11

Allan(handofgod137),

08/02/2008 12:20:57
"It could also result in formal apologies from the Catholic Church"
So I take it that any compensation due to those abused in the catholic run homes will be paid by the church?
12

Rita,

Warren 08/02/2008 13:46:53
I always believed a lot of the glergy only entered into the church because they couldn't make it on their own--- and it was instant respect, whether earned or not. we were all brainwashed from the early years that ministers and priests were good people
13

Peter Cherbi,

Edinburgh 08/02/2008 13:55:16
A good idea, as long as such a forum isn't allowed to go on for years without doing anything for the victims.

Less of the usual delay delay delay and more substantive action sooner than later should be the format.

The Justice Secretary was asked to set up a similar commission for victims of legal abuse, but he refused after too much interference from his former colleagues in the legal profession.

That is what happens when someone listens to professional interests rather than the wider public interest.

Perhaps a better approach is needed at the Justice Department to this issue too ...
14

Roberta Burns,

08/02/2008 14:38:47
Name and shame the lot of them. The sooner the better.
Part of the problem with these poor young people is that for so many years no-one believed them.

I, for one, would love to see them all lined up on television explaining how they could possibly make amends to the children they abused so callously.
15

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 08/02/2008 16:44:22
This proposal is long overdue and hopefully will provide a modicom of justice to those children who were the victims of abuse by those who were charged with looking after and protecting them.
I would suggest that the mandate of this truth commision be widened to include those children who were " farmed out" to foster homes which to my recollection were never given a second look once those children were delivered to them.

That abuse, in a number of forms, took place in many of them is without question and demands investigation.
I would be surprised if much of the same circumstances that existed in the middle of the last century were not still in practice today.
16

Reckless,

9/11 was an inside job 08/02/2008 17:48:53
Why is the Scotsman censoring us in order to protect Wendy Alexander? Are they returning some sort of dodgy favour?
17

gaffer,

Kamloops 08/02/2008 21:02:57
as an earlier reader mentioned , our native people in canada have suffered ever since the white people brought their churches here and began changing the natives to what was they said a better life and a christian way , this damage goes back over one hundred years and the still havent all been compensated, the Church is still a very strong ruler in all countries, and is this abuse still going on ?? I dont kknow
18

williamx,

canada 08/02/2008 21:34:08
Jail the lot. Demolish the institutions where this took place like was done to the Christian Brothers establishments out here. Most of this has been sorted out over here over the last 10 years with class action suits against the religious authorities and massive payouts by the Catholic Church. Perhaps we should start by demolishing churches as well where the pastors were actively involved in the sexual abuse.
Remember all this the next time you watch the expensive pageantry put on by the Catholic church and the Anglican church and disregard their claims they cannot pay!!!
19

grannie,

East Kilbride Glasgow 08/02/2008 21:45:08
Terrrible the way the innocence of childhood was taken away from these sufferers. The state relinquished their responsabilty and sat back and let all these orginisations do what, should have been, their duty taking care of the weak and needy. I'm quite sure they also failed to check that these places were being run with the compassion and care which these children surely required. May God forgive them all and somehow make them pay.
20

response,

Syd 09/02/2008 04:02:52
Och it was the same in the land of ozz, being informed by the local tv news, and a workmate who came through this system , he was a very bitter man against these so called good people who were given the authority to look after them i couldn't believe the physical and mental torture that these young were put through, and the arrogance of these predetor's.
21

Clive MacDonald,

Derbyshire 09/02/2008 09:51:26
This is clearly a very serious subject. However it is unfortunate that in a very long article the terms physical, emotional, sexual and psychological abuse and 'atrocity' are used but no insight into the actual details of what happened is given. This makes it difficult for a casual reader to form a view.
22

FBGA,

South of England 09/02/2008 12:38:18
I lead a group of former children who were abused in Quarriers Homes.Many of the cases have been through the Scottish Court system including Appeal.

What is required is Truth, Justice, and Reconciliation.

We require those making allegations of abuse and those accused to have a fair trial and hearing (European Legislation section 6).

The Survivors in Scotland and the FBGA group are not aware of the "Terms of Reference" for such a Truth and Reconciliation as the Scotish Government have not announced them yet or the make-up of the Scottish model.

FBGA require a process which has Judical oversight and proper powers of investigation.

FBGA would wish for all testimonies of those accused and those making the allegations to be properly scrutinised and in our view a Court of Law or a similar body is the only place to administer "Justice" for all.

FBGA wish for equal "Justice" for all accused and victim.

FBGA have raised our group,s concerns with the Scottish Government officials directly dealing with the historical abuse issues. FBGA a Survivors group is seriously concernedthat individuals may be embellishing their own personal suffering as this has recently been brought to our groups attention.

David Whelan
FBGA (Former Boys and Girls Abused in Quarriers Homes)
23

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 10/02/2008 00:20:46
#26 You concerns seem to be a bit deceptive given that they will of necessity be given full weight prior to any hearing. I think you are attemting to question the veracity of any allegations made to this tribunal, in advance of being made. I tink you should make it absolutely clear to readers who your organisation truly represents.
24

2Right,

On Location 10/02/2008 04:22:01
Bring back public floggings for the perpetrators of crimes like this against innocent children, some of whom would have been under CP orders at the time.
But only after every appeal procedure is exhausted. There are some cases of mistaken identity which have come to light and successful at appeal where social workers have been vindicated.
What i am trying to get to here is simply, Not every social worker abused children and some might have ignored it to safeguard their jobs, not an excuse though for allowing such henious crimes to be perpetrated by supposed do gooders
Flog them all, The guilty only
25

FBGA,

10/02/2008 12:57:10
There is no deception in asking for "Justice" for all.

I was a victim of abuse my abuser was convicted in the Scotish Courts and got 8 years (John Porteous)and then he and his family decided to launch an unprecedented personal attack on me. My abuser was given full access to the media BBC Scotland "Secrets or Lies" 2003.

John Porteous claimed a miscarriage of justice when none existed in law and had very powerful supporters.

The care home (Quarriers) allowed his family and supporters to mount a campaign form their properties against me calling me a LIAR!

My abuser and his wife Helen Porteous was backed by a very powerful organisation in the UK
(falsely accused carers and teachers). In the process my sister and I had to relinquish our anoyminty and go public to defend our honesty and integrity.

There are forces at work against the victims and if we the victims do not call for equal indivisable Justice then we are no better than the other side.

It only takes one individual to falsely accuse and embelish their own personal abuse experience and be exposed as a LIAR and the damage done to the genuine victims is overwhelming.

If you google former boys and girls abused in Quarriers Homes you will have access to the full story. Including my fight 4 year with the BBC Scotland for justice.

Justice and a Voice cannot be for just one side the victims it has to be for all.

Regards
David Whelan
Former Boys and Girls Abused in Quarriers Homes.
26

FBGA,

10/02/2008 13:13:28

Just to add the Survivors in Scotland do not know the make-up or the Terms of Reference as to the Truth and Reconciliation Forum announced.
We are awaiting full details from the Scottish Government and we have asked them to take into consideration all sides in the debate and give equal access to all who wish to participate in the debate and contributed ideas and suggestions as to the Scottish model being proposed.

We do note that Canada and South Africa has such bodies but they did not fulfill there function ascompletely as one would have wished. As organisations refused access to documents and were less than cooperative thoughout the processes. Some documents were deliberately destroyed in South Africa. Will all religious organisation and all institutions give full unabridged access to their files in Scotland. There is a row going on in Ireland at present.

It is what is proposed and is in the detail. We await.

David Whelan
27

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 10/02/2008 19:27:39
There is no question that Justice not only has to be done, it has to be seen as done.
I sympathise with the experience you suffered through, both as a previous ward of the state and your subsequent experience with the news media and others.
However I do not agree with your inference that there are others out there who may not be telling the truth
[ unlike you ] and that society should bear that in mind when their stories are told.
Is that not setting those individuals up to be attacked
in the same way as you were, even before raising their own cases to this Tribunal.
It seems to me that you are making assumtions that are not based on fact and are doing a disservice to the people who need to be heard.
28

FBGA,

10/02/2008 21:11:30
Lumberjack these are not assumptions. I was informed by others including former children inside FBGA and outside who had been abused in-care, they were concerned as I was about the possibility that individuals may be embellishing their own personal abuse experience.

What should we as victim/survivors do ignore it or highlight it. We cannot rule out the possiblity just as we cannot rule out that those accused will deny it.

We need to ensure justice for all and scrutinise all testimonies in my view.

There is no doubt that many children were abused in Quarriers Homes down the generations the facts are that 9 ex-employees to-date have been convicted.

We the genuine victims do not want to be tarnished by individuals making false allegations or embellishing their own personal abuse experience account in any shape or form.

The other side would like nothing more than to claim and expose all historical abuse survivors as LIARS!

regards David
29

Cyril,

New Zealand 11/02/2008 04:26:56
Australia is one of the worst countries in the world for the past treatment of its native peoples especially in regard to the Stolen generation. The recent Prime Minister of Australia, John Howard, refused to make any apology to the Aborigine people but at least the new Labour Government is trying to make amends. Aboriginees in the past were often hunted and killed like wild animals.
30

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 11/02/2008 16:24:39
# 32 David I am sorry but I do not buy your rational.
In many of the abuse cases which took place, they occured many years ago and I am sure that the pain many of those kids were subjected to has magnified as those kids went through adult life.
What may appear to be embelishment to some, it may very well be pent up anger in those who endured that suffering at a young age and have magnified those indignities as they have grown older.
Does that mean their whole experience should be treated with suspicion because of that.
I am sure that there are others who have blocked out those memories for their own sanity and who have no wish to address those experiences today.
I just think you are going down a slippery path when you adopt the arguement some of those abused may not be telling the truth from the outset.
Embellishment there may very well be, but that doesn't
abuse did not occur.

31

FBGA,

11/02/2008 17:37:45
Hi Lumberjack

Yes abuse did happen and yes there are many who have not come forward. I am a perfect example of someone who never came forward.I was contacted by the abuser's wife.

FBGA are seriously concerned that if an individual is proven to have embellished there own personal abuse experience or it is proven to be false testimony then we will all be targeted as liars.

There does seem to be on balance the right to a fair trial and hearing which if properly scrutinised by a panel and would have some safeguards for the genuine victims.

We want all the issues out in the open. The situation is not helped in Scotland because the survivors are not at one now as there backs have been broken by the powers that be. They are fragmented some puport to speak for others when they in fact do not.

Those that dance to the tune put out by the establishment and the powers that be are put up as representatives of all survivors when in fact some came from a group that disintegrated by internal division because they could not agree and due to internal diffuculties and FBGA was born out of that.

Some survivors say in one newspaper that they want a Truth and Reconciliation commission then in another the same survivor Mrs Elizabeth McWilliams say's she does not want reconciliation.

Some say its not about money but then go on and claim criminal injuries compensation.

The messages are certainly confusing.

FBGA are clear and consistent from the beginning those abused are entitled to full reparation and redress in whatever shape or form that is acceptable to the individual survivor.

They are simply playing hardball in Scotland and we have to be on our guard against any possiblitiy of slandering our honesty,integrity and undermining us.

One survivor group (INCAS) went to the wall by, trojan horse antics within and this was a survivor group that was apparently engaging with the Scottish officials and claiming to represent us all which incidently they did not.
32

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 11/02/2008 19:25:55
#35 I am, of course, not aware of the differences amongst the various groups you refer to.
In my view debate is a healthy and often important dynamic on the way to finding a common solution to a difficult question.
My point in this discussion ,is that the debate is not and cannot be around the possible embellishment of some persons recollection of abuse.
The question has to be whether the the abuse itself took place.
I would think that any tribunal will be well equiped to determine that question in a manner that safegaurds the rights of all i'ts witnesses.


33

Canny0ne,

Franklin, NC 13/02/2008 01:37:10
You cannot have Truth and Reconciliation if both sides are not given an equal right to be heard and many of us will never have the oportunity to confront our abusers because they are either dead or so old that it would be a Phyrric victory at best. Where is the Justice if your abusers and the institutions in which the abuse occurred go nameless? Maybe I'm a little cynical but I can't imagine that anyone who has been abused would believe that just telling your story, getting a pat on the head and a There! There! would make it all better.

I am a member of FBGA who was in Quarrier's Homes for 11 years, who left more than 50 years ago but there are some things that have never be forgotten. They have not been magnified over time...they are what they are. Things such as a housemother who kept the strap along the inside of the fire when it was lit so that the leather would harden, all the more to inflict pain; such as children 3 or 4 years old being hit with the same strap; or my sister being locked in the shed all night and her fingernails bleeding in the morning from trying to escape; or being locked all night in a lobby where the cockroaches probably outnumbered Scots living in Scotland.

For the person who couldn't imagine the kinds of abuse that happened because no one was specific, mostly we are not specific in every day conversation because the abuse was so dreadful that those who were abused fear that people will turn away because it is so disturbing. It's a long, sordid story that many wish would just go away. Can you imagine what it feels like to be thankful that you were 'only' physically abused. Can you imagine the courage it took for former Quarriers children like David to confront the paedophiles in a Court of Law?

FBGA has been successful because everything the group has done has been open and above board. A full Judicial Inquiry is still the aim of FBGA. Only this course would allow survivors of abuse to begin the healing process.

34

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 13/02/2008 19:48:53
Whatever the means to establish a healing process, whether it be through Truth and Reconcilliation or a Judicial Inquiry, just who would decide which witnesses
would be allowed to testify.?
That is my major concern.

35

Canny0ne,

Franklin, NC 14/02/2008 18:34:40
The Forum or Commission would have to be founded on the presumption that abuse occured at various Scottish Institutions over many decades. That hurdle has already been crossed with release of the Tom Shaw Historical Abuse Systemic Review. Since this would be a government sponsored panel, it would be up to the government to take great care in choosing members. One would hope this would cover a wide array of people, including from the Judiciary, Health Services, former abused children whose cases have been proven in the Law Courts and people who were falsely accused whose cases have also been proven. I'm sure this will happen over a period of discussion. Anyone who was abused as a child in a Scottish Religious or Secular (were there any?) Institution has the right to speak and the right to face their abuser, just as those accused have the right to face their accuser. I'm no expert and this will be a huge undertaking if it's to be done right.

Few of us ever thought we'd see the day when this subject would even be talked about in polite circles.

Chris
Memeber of Former Boys and Girls Abused in Quarriers
36

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 14/02/2008 20:15:04
Chris , I could not agree with you more.
There is absolutely no arguement that abuse took place,
and the abuse was not solely confined to Quarrier Homes.
I also agree that whatever the forum used it has to be openly transparent and fair.
Where the various statements made in this exchange have given me concern is in the ones made by David ie "--that the FBGA is seriously concerned that individuals may be embellishing their own personal suffering " --- etc and that FBGA " -- are seriously concerned that if an individual is proven to have embellished their own personal abuse experience or it is proven to be false testimony then we will all be targeted as liars."
Therefore my concern remains. Who is going to separate the supposed "embellishers" from the ones who are "telling the truth ", prior to the hearings taking place.
According to CannyOne #39 "anyone who was abused as a child in one of the named institutions would have the right to face their abuser"
I am having difficulty squaring those two positions.
I don't think it would be a stretch to envision a good defence putting the question to an individual to the effect that even FBGA " raises a question as to whether or not you are telling the truth"
Apart from any other question, I think you are being overly cautious about being branded as "liars" etc.
The fact that a government had agreed to set up a body of reconcilliation said to me that there is evidence ,
as you previously pointed out, that abuse did occur and they agree it did.
I would be amazed by the way, that any accused abuser would not attempt to brand every person as a "liar" regardless of any protestation to the contrary that was made.
37

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 15/02/2008 01:40:06
Just as a matter of interest #39 CannyOne, I don't know who ran places like Red Hall and Cannan Lodge in Edinburgh but I am pretty sure they were not religious.

Red Hall was pretty close to being in hell, but I don't suppose that counts.

In addition to the institutional settings though, many of us were shipped out to be nurtured by religious zealots who's primary responsibility seemed to be get as much work out of 5 and 6 year olds as could possibly be done.
My younger sister and I had our share of those people.
While there was no sexual abuse there certainly was plenty of physical and mental abuse.
Once deposited in those settings you were pretty well forgotten until some concerned neighbours called the police. No kidding. Once that happened, we were removed and delivered to a new community and another "religious" family where the same work ethic was practiced. You worked and they prayed that you would stick around until the potatoes were harvested, the byre had been mucked and the spring plantings had been done.

I hope that in any examination of child abuse, it will not be confined to institutions and it will take a good look at the manner in which those agencies who were responsible for overseeing the care of those children had actually exercised their responsibility.

The people my sister and I were farmed out to will all be dead by now so the question for me is not one of retribution.

My interest is to make sure it never happens again.
38

Canny0ne,

Franklin 16/02/2008 01:01:07
Hi Lumber Jack:

I have read something of the experiences children like you and your sister were forced to endure. I can honestly say that as bad as I think I had it, I cannot begin to imagine the terror and loneliness of children dragged from everything they know into a completely alien world. Anna Magnusson included some horror stories in her book and Margaret Humphries book 'Empty Cradles' about children 'emigrated' (don't you love that word) to Australia probably mirrors the Canadian story a lot.

I can only speak about Quarriers because that is my experience. Quarriers was quite unique in that it was an almost completely insulated institution until the late 50's. Most of us left only very occasionally and only under strict supervision for the most part.

There really is nothing to square between David's position and mine. We're saying the same thing and that is that the only way to get at the truth is through the Judicial system. You are assuming that the people we fear might embellish their stories are people who were abused. What David is pointing out is that with a 'Truth and Reconciliation' Forum, anyone can say anything and if it is found that someone embellished their story or lied, it would be to the severe detriment of all those who are truthful. It's like being in court and a witness lies...the jury is asked to discount the entire story.

David Whelan and the FBGA members are simply asking that failsafe rules be adopted at the inception of this Commission or Forum to ensure as best possible that what they hear is indeed the truth. This is for the protection of all children who were abused in Scottish institutions..not only Quarriers.

It's not retribution we seek, it's an end to the secrecy that has kept paedophiles and abusers in business. By the way, what other institution in Scotland has had nine (9) people convicted in less than 10 years for crimes committed in the 60's and 70's, with others waiting to be tried as we speak.
39

Canny0ne,

Franklin 16/02/2008 01:08:48
I was 63 before I learned, when Quarriers was backpedalling after the "Beast of the Belltower" scandal broke, that Quarriers Homes wasn't a religious institution. I had believed my entire life to that point that Quarriers was run by the Church of Scotland, that is how closely the church and Quarriers operated. That's what we were told as children and we had no reason to doubt it. I don't know of the other places you mention but I'll take your word they were not run by a church.
40

FBGA,

16/02/2008 11:17:26
I agree with Chris, and you Lumberjack and perhaps I have not clarified properly what our main concerns are it is what has been previously said in the exchanges.

In relation to accurate truthful accounts by those who have been abused and those who are accused. How do you ensure this without a proper panel which has investigative powers and judicial powers like the inquiries se-up in Ireland (Lafoy and Dublin inquiries)giving all sides equal access to justice where at all possible.

Are we the historical victims to place our trust in the Scottish Government entirely to ensure that the process envisaged of the Scottish Model announced by them is completely impartcial, accountable and has sufficent powers including judicial powers of compeling all organisations to be fully cooperative and give full access to all documentation which can shed any light on why so many children down the generations were abused.

Will they allow siblings to represent deceased siblings?

One just has to look at the Terms of Reference given to the Kerlaw Inquiry by the Scottish Government. The Inquiry set-up is being held in private how open and transparent is that.

Suposedly in the interests of Justice (What bullshit is that)

Quarriers had its fair share on child migrant children sent out to the most appalling conditions. They had religion and god drum into them that it would be a better life.

The British Government was ultimately responsible for polices worldwide which enabled such abuse to happen in all the Dominions of the Empire.

Even Tom Shaw had difficulty with uncooperative organisations and his remit was simply not up to the task although given his limited remit even he concluded that it was systemic failures and systemic abuse.

Regards David
41

FBGA,

16/02/2008 11:30:30
As Chris say Quarriers are now trying to distance themselves form the overly christian organisation it was and was instilled into children by those abusing the same children.

How peverse is that! Many abusers in the court cases simply said they were doing the good work of the Lord.

Just to say also this abuse went on from the beginning when Quarriers Homes was first set-up right up to the 80s and possibly beyond.

Quarriers is one of the most corrupt care establishments ever and the reason the Scottish Government does not want an Inquiry is because the public would be shocked.

The organisation called Quarriers engaged directly with convicted paedophiles all ex-employees and their families in a campaign highlighted in the media in 2003 to call the victims liars! Even the Chairman of Quarriers was involved. We have all the proof to expose this corrupt organisation who were going to allow convivted paedophiles to return upon their release until we alerted the media.

Even Nicola Sturgeon who is now the Health Minister, called for the resignation of the Chief Executive of Quarriers, Phil Robinson in the media. Yet he remained in his post!

Regards David
42

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 17/02/2008 21:50:55
Hi David, that seems to have been the general approach of the catholic church in particular,, at least in North America.
Deny everything, blacken the name of the person making the accusation and transfer tha perpetrator to another parish. !!!

I want to thank FBGA, Chris, David and CannyOne for your comments and insight since we began our exchange.
I'm still not conviced of your strategy, however I don't want to quibble over something that you have more experience with than I have.
It has made me think more of my families case and has made me want to pursue it to a greater extent than I have. Looking back I think all of us,two sisters and two brothers just wanted to get on with our lives, forget the lousy stuff and look forward to the good things that life has to offer.
However having this exchange with you has made me realise that unless I try to understand matters more ,I may be doing a disservice to future kids who may be faced with the same set of circumstances.
It's not going to be easy as I seemed to erase much of the detail from my memory.
For example I don't recall going to school allthough I'm sure I must have or the specific addresses of the places we lived
The information must be stored in some Scottish record bank. If you could point me in the right direction where I could request that information it would be much appreciated. I don't know how much longer we will be allowed to make use of this link that the Scotsman has so kindly provided, but I would like to continue this conversation / discussion further with a view to being of some use in the project.
43

FBGA,

18/02/2008 17:51:16
lumberjack the issue for FBGA is not retribution but like you to ensure this never happens again on the scale that it has happened.

To help protect children in-care or any other residential setting in the future.

I am not convinced either to date of the Truth and Reconciliation model being proposed as to-date FBGA have not seen any such Scottish model proposed by the Scottish Government.

With regards starting a process of learning about the past and your circumstances. This can be traumatic as there may be issues you were not aware of.

You need to first establish who the care or religious organisation was responsible, such as Quarriers or Catholic Church etc.

If you are searching for personal family history you may need start with the Historical Records Office in Edinburgh for Scotland where all births and deaths are registered.

Once you establish which organisation was responsible for placing (you)in the setting, remember they will not provide third party information with regards siblings etc

You are then entitled to access any records held this a right under the 1998 Data Proctection Act.

Then the organisaton should write to you and should furnish you any record pertaining directly to you held with 40days as required by law.

If you wish access to other siblings files/records if at all possible get their written permission and consent before hand.

If I can be of futher help you can contact the group at fbga1@aol.com by email.

I hope this is helpful.

It also focuses our thoughts and minds by having a debate such as we have had on the issues again we have to consider migrant children as Quarriers Homes was one of the biggest providers of children to places such as Canada.

Take Care
David
44

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 18/02/2008 19:25:55
Hi David,I think I have left the immpresion that we were shipped out to Canada during the period in question.
We were not.
Our Mother was a young widow who simply did not have the means to support herself and five children after my father died and who was forced to ask for assistance from the Edinburgh welfare support system.
The result was that three of us were entrusted to the "care" of an institution named Red Hall which I am fairly sure was operated by a government agency.
The odd thing was that every time we were moved from one place to another throughout Scotland, the transportation was by ambulance and accompanied by a nurse in full uniform.
I immigrated to Canada on my own when I was 20 years old along with one brother and a sister.
I thought I should clarify this to avoid any confusion.
Thank you for providing me with the further information
on how to contact FBGA etc.
Best Wishes.


45

Canny0ne,

Franklin, NC 19/02/2008 18:37:14
Lumber Jack:

Most of the survivors had in fact moved on with their lives, in many cases to become quite successful, only to be confronted at some point in our lives with the past. For most of us, we had no idea that we could tell anyone in authority about what happened to us. The effects of having to confront the past can be devastating but can't be ignored. To all those who think we should just forget it and get on with our lives, this very cloak of silence is what allows predators to go about their nasty business. One of the paedophiles convicted recently had been investigated in 1982, yet still had all the access he wanted to children and the support of Quarriers and some of those who depend on Quarriers for certain benefits.

What not many know about Quarriers is that there was a sort of vetting process that took place before children were admitted. My understanding is that, at least before the mid-50's, children were not admitted unless a family member pledged to pay a monthly sum for the entirety of the child's stay. This would have left many children who did not qualify and who would have ended up in other homes where the government was the sole provider of care. It had nothing to do with location. My family was from the Northeast of Scotland.
Chris
46

Canny0ne,

Franklin 19/02/2008 18:38:54
I should have said a weekly sum, not a monthly sum.
47

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 21/02/2008 15:35:56
CannyOne, That could have very well been what happened in our case.
I don't know that of course.
Certainly trying to get any amount of money from my mother to take care of five kids would have been impossible.
My older sister has a recollection that one of the reasons my mother was seeking assistance was because the utilities to our residence had been cut off as my mother could no longer pay for them.
I don't know if that would have been recorded by the authorities at that time, but it would be interesting to me to find out.
48

Canny0ne,

Franklin, NC 21/02/2008 20:00:59
Lumber Jack:

Did you ever get the records of your time in care? This was one of the issues Tom Shaw's report dealt with. There were huge problems with former kids who'd been in care getting their records or when they did get them, finding that records had been 'thinned out', especially those before the 60's. After that, the records were more comprehensive but people still had a hard time gaining access.


Chris

49

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 22/02/2008 00:56:19
Hi Chris, I have not attempted to get those records yet.
I have only decided to do this as a result of the discussion we have had on these pages.
Since I was unsure how to get started I did contact the NHS in Scotland earlier this week surmising that you have to register with a doctor when you locate in a new area that this may be as good as any other way to start with.
However based on the information I recieved I don't think it is.
Any suggestion on how to proceed would be welcomed.


50

Canny0ne,

Franklin, NC 22/02/2008 16:33:20
Lumber Jack:

It would seem safe to assume that you were placed in the various homes through the RSSPCC. I know someone who has been dealing with them regarding her case. She was placed in 1939 and they still had her case papers. The person to contact is:

Stephanie Brooks, Administrator
Children 1st
(Royal Scottish Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children)
83 Whitehouse Loan
Edinburgh EH9 1AT

This might be a good place to start. They can at least tell you how to proceed.

Good luck. If you manage to get your records, please have someone you trust with you when you read them. Even if you think you know your circumstances, it can be very traumatic reliving the past.

Chris
51

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 23/02/2008 00:27:47
Hi Chris, thank you for this information,
I also want to thank you for your concern over my possible reaction to what may be contained in my records.
That's a chance I have to take though if I want to know
gain insight into that period of my life.
I'll let you know what happens.
Neil
52

Canny0ne,

Franklin 26/02/2008 00:17:10
Neil:

You're very welcome. As someone who's been through the ordeal of getting records and know many others who've done the same, I don't know anyone who found it a pleasant experience. You can always get hold of me at TheCanny0ne@aol.com, that's with a zero not an O. I wish you and your family all the best and hope you have a good outcome.

Chris
53

Sebastian J E De Carss,

Glasgow 24/03/2008 06:17:22

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

HAUT DE LA GARENNE IN JERSEY

THIS HOUSE OF HORRIORS IS ONLY ONE OFF MANY ABUSE HOMES BEING EXPOSE TO THE WORLD WIDE MEDIA . NOW AND HOW THE ABUSE VICTIMS HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME FARWARD TO THE POLICE. WHOOPS MORE EVIDENCES AND TO TAKE THIER CASES AGAINST THE AURTHOURIES WHOM WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIER CHILDHOOD CARE;EDUCATION AND HAPPINESS IN A SO CALL SAFE PLACE FROM THE SOCIETY ( HOMES FOR VULNERABLE CHILDREN )
www.bbc.co.uk/news
CHILDREN ENGLAND DID NOT WANT

I HAVE WON A VERY SUCCESSFULL CIVIL RIGHT CASE VERSE DR BARNARDO'S CHARITY FOR THIER PART OF THE CHILD MIGRANT CHILDREN PREPARATION AND THE HORRIFIC COVER UPS OF ABUSE TO VULNERBLE HANDICCAPPED GIRLS IN CARE HOME FROM 1960 to 1970s BY DR BARNARDO'S CHRISTIAN CARE WORKERS
THE OLD BISHOP'S PALACE. RIPON
ENGLAND
SPRINGHILL SCHOOL.

MY BEST WISHES TO ALL ABUSE SURVIVORS TO COME FORWARD.

I AM A BONFIRE SURVIVOR WITH A CAMERA FROM THE ABUSE KLLERS IN BARNARDO'S HOME.
www.bbc.co.uk/news Sebastian de Carss / UNICEF
THE BBC THE WEB BOX PETITIONS

SEBASTIAN DE CARSS
BRITISH & SCOTTISH
54

The Lumber Jack,

Toronto 02/07/2008 00:36:07
Chris, I promised I would get back to you.
I have contacted every agency, government department etc.I could and the same information comes back. all files on cases such as mine were not required to be kept on file until recently, therefore they were destroyed , or otherwise done away with.
In other words, as far as the Gov't is concerned I never existed.
End of story.
Neil

 

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