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Scotland takes the rap for hip hop

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Published Date: 28 December 2008
SCOTLAND takes justifiable pride in a history of invention that has given the world the telephone, television, radar, penicillin and even cloned sheep.


But now there are claims that the land of Burns and bagpipes is also the ancestral home of rap music.

Academics insist that the roots of the bombastic form of spoken-word music stem from the taverns of medieval Scotland rather than the mean streets of the Bronx and Brooklyn.

They claim the contemporary art of the rap battle, popularised by Eminem in the hit movie 8 Mile, is a direct descendant of the ancient Caledonian art of 'flyting', where feuding opponents settled scores by trading ever more elaborate insults.

According to the theory, Scottish slave owners took the tradition with them to the United States where it was adopted and developed by the slaves themselves, emerging many years later as rap.

American academic Professor Ferenc Szasz is convinced there is a clear link between the robust verbal feuds of old Scotland and the rap contests of the contemporary United States.

The historian from the University of New Mexico, who specialises in American and Scottish culture, said: "The Scots have a lengthy tradition of flyting: intense verbal jousting, often laced with vulgarity, that is similar to the dozens that one finds among contemporary inner-city African-American youth.

"Both cultures accord high marks to satire. The skilled use of satire takes this verbal jousting to its ultimate level – one step short of a fist fight. All words can sting, and hard ridicule such as mimicry, irony and sarcasm, stings most painfully. When used by an expert it can reduce an opponent to jelly."

The leading theory is that the traditional form of settling scores was taken across the Atlantic by Scottish colonialists who passed it on to African-American slaves who were working on their plantations.

Professor Willie Ruff of Yale University is in no doubt that the music of Scottish slave owners had a profound impact on the development of black music traditions in the US.

He said: "We clearly have European roots too. While it may not be satisfactory and it may not be comfortable, it is what it is. It is in our names, it's in our music, it's in our blood."

Ruff cites black musical giants like Dizzy Gillespie, Louis Armstrong and Charlie Mingus – or Menzies – as examples of individuals whose ancestors were given their surnames by Scottish slave masters.

In this shameful episode in history, slaves were expected not only to adopt the monikers of their European owners, but also to adopt their customs.

The cultural fusion between the early African Americans and their Scottish overlords was such that black worshippers sang in Gaelic in church services in Alabama and other parts of the South until as late as 1918.

Ruff said: "While black culture and worship do come from Africa, there were elements that were imposed by the whites, but they took this and 'blackened' it."

Szasz's theory about the links between flyting and rap come in a new work examining the historical context for Robert Burns's work. The most famous surviving example of the combative Scottish oral tradition comes from the 16th-century work The Flyting Of Dunbar And Kennedy. There, two rival poets attempt to establish their supremacy by hurling increasingly obscene rhyming insults at one another before the Court of King James IV.

Dr Katie Lowe of Glasgow University referred to it as "Just over 500 lines of filth", adding: "It is a hilarious tale about a rivalry and two poets battling each other with a series of nasty put-downs." It contains the guttural lines: "Mauch muttoun, by t buttoun, peliet glutton, air to Hilhous, rank beggar, ostir, dregar, foule fleggar." The poem also contains the first recorded use of a lavatorial insult, still very much in use, when Kennedy calls Dunbar a "s*** without wit".

Meanwhile, Ruff points to the American Folk Arts in Education project, which explores musical traditions and also links European flyting to rap battles, concluding that in both cases: "Exchanges are stylised, parallel, symmetric and stanzaic.

"Two people engage in ritual verbal duelling and the winner has the last word in the argument, with the loser falling conspicuously silent."

The project also cites an American civil war poem, printed in the New York Vanity Fair magazine on November 9, 1861, as the first recorded example of such crossover. The verse, which contains numerous uses of Scottish expressions, states: "Mounting my prad, I'd go the forts/Take all my bob culls and my bene morts/I'd hold high revel, sluice my gob away,/Ne'er fash myself, nor think of cramping day,/McClellans cutty eyed and knows my lay,/He's fly enough to shut up every boozing ken./If I did that each day, I would be losing men./Our game is dusty, but we cannot stop./It's either fight or take the morning drop."

Earlier this year, Scotland on Sunday revealed that acclaimed Aberdeenshire percussionist Evelyn Glennie was planning to collaborate with Detroit rap superstar Eminem. The tradition has also come home, with clubs in Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen inviting all-comers to take part in rap battles.




Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 27 December 2008 10:08 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 28/12/2008 00:44:16

"SCOTLAND takes justifiable pride in a history of invention that has given the world the telephone, television, radar, penicillin and even cloned sheep"

More the shame then, we never gained advantage, of being an Independent Nation, and one to be reckoned with!

One wonders, why Salmond, has not got Brown "Hip Popping", out off Scotland!

2

Irish by berth British by choice,

Edinburgh 28/12/2008 00:50:36
What a waste of newsprint ! Not forgetting the trees that were part of the print. What do these hacks earn ? FFS.
3

Conan the Librarian™,

28/12/2008 00:55:33
Charles, do you actually want or even believe in a Scottish Nation?

If you do, attacking the one person who may achieve it seems a bit...um...silly.
4

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 28/12/2008 01:28:10
East Germany used to do this sort of rubbish as well. They claimed to have invented Rock and roll and coca cola.
5

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 28/12/2008 01:31:03
Anyway, I think youll find generally that it was afrikaa Bambattaa.
OOOkay, if you really want me to take this seriously,
Griots in western africa have been doing similar for centuries.
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 28/12/2008 01:46:52


Conan ~3,

No I Know Scotland will never be "Independent", but really we should be more, Proud of ourselves, and not take everything, lying down!

Afterall!,....

..."Scotland takes the rap for hip hop", If so,,, a kind of activity, that suggests, we don't all lie down! :)





7

Warden An' All, Reborn,

28/12/2008 02:44:08
"A study into the roots of gospel music by an American professor has lead the accomplished musician, who has played with Duke Ellington and Dizzy Gillespie, to conclude that the "good news" music sung in black American churches originated from Scotland, not Africa.


A study into the roots of gospel music by an American professor has lead the accomplished musician, who has played with Duke Ellington and Dizzy Gillespie, to conclude that the "good news" music sung in black American churches originated from Scotland, not Africa.

Professor Willie Ruff, of Yale University, said the roots of the music derived from evangelical spirituals and blues and jazz, had more to do with the crofters of the Outer Hebrides than slaves on US plantations."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/gospel-truth-hebrides-invented-church-spirituals-580565.html
8

Warden An' All, Reborn,

28/12/2008 02:49:59
Another example of something from a Scottish origin which would of not seen the light of day had it not been for, the then, British empire.
9

Curley Bill,

in da hood 28/12/2008 02:53:43
It's Charles LinSKAILL,
beyond the PALE,
He thinks that WE,
Should not be FREE,
And then there's FOULKES,
He's just a JOKE,
He fills his BOOTS
And takes the LOOT,
The creep's a SNAKE,
Out on the MAKE,
He backed Blair's LIES,
So people DIED,
But Foulkes don't CARE,
He's sitting SQUARE,
In all his FURS,
Amongst the CURS,
If law don't FAIL,
They'd all face JAIL,
And come one DAY,
They all will PAY!








10

Kenneth in cali.,

Sacramento California 28/12/2008 03:05:30
Thou I am of Celtic ancestry,i feel this story speaks to the independent spirit of both cultures.
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 28/12/2008 03:18:39

Curley Bill ~10,

Quite offensive!

My posts do NOT mean malice!

More the truisms, with added humour, if you do not understand this, then you do not know me atall!

12

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 28/12/2008 03:48:14
well, stupid story

although you could say the American Gil Scott-Heron invented hip hip

and his dad played for Celtic

a bit of a stretch though
13

Warden An' All, Reborn,

28/12/2008 04:10:48
Wait! Hold the front page, news just in – there are now claims the Virgin Mary conceived Jesus Christ after God had visited the ancient lands now known as scotland.
14

I can see for miles,

28/12/2008 04:48:38
I have a sneaky feeling that the stapler was designed by a Scot
15

Phillip,

28/12/2008 04:51:42
Sounds more like an American trying to blame someone, anyone else for Rap music instead of admitting that such a filthy creation was born on soil of the USA.
16

Phillip,

28/12/2008 04:55:43
I find it interesting that we're allowed to comment on this load of rubbish, but aren't allowed to air our thoughts on the article regarding Lord Foulkes deplorable fleecing of the UK taxpayer with his absurd expenditure requests as a member of the House of Lords; nor are we allowed to comment on the article regarding the resumption of hostilities between Hamas & Israel.

17

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 28/12/2008 05:38:00
#17 Philip
No but we can comment here!!

As long as the Hamas hooligans keep firing rockets into Israel then they have to expect to get "slapped" in return.

Incidentally, where do we think that Hamas get their rockets? are they available in the soon to be closed Woolworths branch in Gaza?
18

I can see for miles,

28/12/2008 05:55:24
#18

LOL

Had this image of a wee guy walking out the shop with his "rocket starter pack" and black and decker
19

Kenny A,

28/12/2008 05:57:38
1 Charles

Scotland has never been one nation, lets be honest if a Scotsman looks in a mirror we are going to have a three way arguement.

Saying that I did kind of like this article, to the extent of reading it and not going to the beach quite yet.

I also found out that the fellow in charge of cloning the notorious dolly the sheep was not scottish or even korean, but worked for a scottish institute so guess we can claim him.

On a slightly more disturbing note without involving politics is the fact that this artical is possibly true, as is the dread "rebel yell", of the confideracy which seems to have been a straight off take of the highland battle scream. Now we have a little bit of a problem here, our black brothers are claiming scottish roots, our red necked cousins are claiming the same.

Perhaps in the far and distant future they will hold out their hands and just accept that the scots are part of their history, but I doubt it.

The other problem I have with this story is that it seems to be more orientated towards southern scotland who were not as accepting of other cultures, creeds and colour of skin as the highlanders, and men of the isles.

My childern are a bit of a mixed bag as they are slitty eyed types as I am even though I am total hebridean, my brothers family are all local and they cant even speak Gaelic. After reading about the Mongolian Viking found on that island in the baltic i came to the conclusion we are all the same, the only difference is in the eyes of the beholder.

Back to the issue however, i have my doubts about its accuracy and its probagbly a scottsman special.


Happy new year bud.
20

Kenny A,

28/12/2008 05:59:32
1 Charles

Sorry about the last post I went on a bit.
21

I can see for miles,

28/12/2008 06:02:03
#20

Don't you think that it was a reporter knowing that the Hokey Cokey bit is still in people's minds.

Get a wee "link story" going.

22

I can see for miles,

28/12/2008 06:06:40
Good to find a thread where there are no gloaters going on about the McDonut goal. I don't even think it was a shot at goal . It was a cross
23

Steve McGregor,

dundee 28/12/2008 08:21:19
lord fowlkes is a share holder of the scootsman
24

eric,

28/12/2008 08:40:25
ST Patrick,was english from cumbria,you dont hear english ranting about it though.
It was punks BLONDIE from the bowery NYC who introduced the world to rap/hiphop with rapture
25

Scythia,

28/12/2008 09:05:17
Whatever you want to call it rap is not music it is gibberish and they are welcome to own it.
26

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 28/12/2008 09:07:41
If we are going to take pride in anything I'm sure it would have to be something a bit more significant than (C)rap (dare I say it) 'music'.
27

far enough away from skotland to feel safe...,

paris 28/12/2008 10:24:41
You really are a bunch of tossers. I'm embarrased to read these comments- embarassed to think the 'Hootsmon' was once a newspaper of note. Please stay away from your keyboards in future- try just reading the newspaper, youse aren't qualified to write for one.
28

Guga II,

Rockall 28/12/2008 10:30:57
#25.

I think you'll find that when St. Patrick was around, most of the English were still living in their homeland in the swamps in Germany.
29

Observer..,

Glasgow 28/12/2008 13:24:22
Hip hop and rap originate from African music. All this who was English and who was Scottish hundreds of years ago is completely academic. If your a Scot your a Scot. We come in many colours, and from many creeds, and we're all entitled to a vote. Roll on independence for all of us.
30

Observer..,

Glasgow 28/12/2008 13:32:45
25 You know sod all about music.
31

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 28/12/2008 13:51:02
This is sadder than sad. Imagine if you will some parochial Latvian newspaper making the same claim.

If CNN gets a hold of this story , you are a laughing stock Marc.
32

Jardine,

28/12/2008 14:42:10
Where is Boy Wonder? Will he put his two pennorth in on this?
33

TREV,

Poland 28/12/2008 15:23:39
I was under the impression that flyting came from Germanic and Scandinavian cultures. Inuit/Eskimo culture also has a tradition of singing battles, as do many African cultures.

But hey...
34

Dunnie,

Canada 28/12/2008 16:39:11

If it's no Scottish, it's (C)rap!!
35

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 28/12/2008 16:54:00
38 If i wanted the daily sport i would read it.
36

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 28/12/2008 18:18:25
The presence of invention is the effect we need. Happening to be from Scotland was once of some benefit. Although Tesla, Marconi, Edison weren't. Independence of mind could flourish in an independent nation that wanted to nurture it.

Or we leave it to GRUNCH (out of the original military-industrial-academic complex) to head-hunt top-scientific talent from the world's universities.
37

Dunnie,

28/12/2008 19:01:05
Yuk Finney - "Independence of mind could flourish in an independent nation that wanted to nurture it."

What total rubbish.
38

doublescotch,

U.S.A. 28/12/2008 23:02:34
How very strange. My mother always used that word "flyting" when her grandbabies were fussing and making a noise. And I used it on Christmas day to my little granddaughter, when I couldn't feed her fast enough:) and she was fussing at me.
39

Buckfastleigh,

28/12/2008 23:12:58
It would appear that it was not a Scot that invented the telephone according to US documents
40

little scouse on the prarie,

Spring, Texas 28/12/2008 23:51:50
Well whoopee dee, what an "invention" to be proud of.
Unbeleivable!! You may have toned it down by suggesting the translation by American black artists is superior.
As the originators, perhaps you can tell a poor wee sassenach why the "C" is silent in rap??
41

tassiestag,

rosebery 29/12/2008 08:27:45
freedom.............just freedom.........peace on earth
42

Buckfastleigh,

29/12/2008 16:35:00
#51 is Wright but Wrap is no Jig and Reel no New Deal. A spring Election is needed...Gordon is the new Further Christmas but not a Rapper of note...Is he therefore "Da Grimm Rapper"?
43

mcbogtrotter,

mccalifornia 29/12/2008 21:13:18
Well this is a typical column, my family is of Scottish decent and came to Virgina in 1654 as an endentured servant as did many others and worked it off and became land owners.
The point to all this is the fact that since you all seem to have a huge dislike for America and its people and this opinion is shared with the rest of the world, why do you always jump up when you think it is time to take the credit for the shape of the world.
The real truth is that the only thing that Scotland can lay claim to is that it is the place other than Ireland that most people wish to be FROM and all the inventions could not have happened except in America and its climate of achievement, the Telephone, Steamships, you can keep on going it all happened in America and could not have happened in Scotland or Ireland.
So why dont you take credit for being the place that more people want to be from.
44

Ed's everywhere,

Brasil 02/01/2009 19:31:36
Liked the article Marc, with a tumultuous debate and at least one Scots hiphop response. Heartening to know that more people want to recognise northwest European roots than anywhere else. Celtic Connections; direct communications, telephone, hiphop, Burns, . . . musical interlude with fiddles and bohrain, . . . Douglas Hume, human soul and the controversy still lies in hiphop and its ancient roots. Well, surely every culture with a few bright sparks, sharp tongues and fearless souls would have speedy spoken sparring?
Perhaps what's more important is the electrical engineering expertise to create a muscial backdrop for new aural artists. It was the Jamaicans in the 70's who were dubbibg up the dancefloors before the likes of Mikey Dread began rapping and the baton passed up to New York with Grandmaster Mel and the likes stealing electricity from street lamposts to make park parties in the northeast of the US. Still, perhaps the yanks are better at selling new stuff. Like, the twerps in their suits, to the Isreali military. #s17,18&19 Where do they meet to make the sale? The beardie jew asks, `How many Hamas people can we kill?`. The yank exagerates, ´All of em`. THey fund themselves in death. And this week hundreds of innocent Palestine citizens have been killed by Olmerts dirty military forces.

Back into the hiphop, perhaps it is the world's most powerful oral vehicle. What do youse reckon?
45

lulach mac gille coemgain,

05/01/2009 11:41:16
Hey! Hardly surprising as there were just as many Scots went to the Americas as slaves as there were nrgro
46

glasgone,

glasgow 07/01/2009 15:17:24
just wondering, to all those refering to "rap" music as (c)rap music (pat on the back for that one, genius), have you ever taken the time to listen to the lyrics? or have you just heard fifty cent on the radio a couple of times as you tried to find SAGA fm, an based your opinion on probably the most diverse musical genres on ONE track by ONE artist?

If you took the time to listen to real HIPHOP, you would see the range in subject matter, not just the infamous money, drugs, guns etc, only made famous by the hugely narrowminded media.
Since punk died, hiphop is the musical format of choice for putting across meaningfull RELEVANT lyrics.

What was the last POP/ROCK song you heard describing everday life outside the boy+girl situation? what was the last pop song urging the country's youth to put down their knives and guns? what was the last pop song to comment on the middle east crisis? what was the last pop song to encourage the youth to take part in the entire democratic process, or even just to go an vote?

NO OTHER GENRE STANDS UP TO HIPHOP IN TERMS OF LYRICAL CONTENT. listen to talib kweli, immortal technique, mos def, skinnyman etc, or at least dig deeper that what gets radio play before commenting on the entire genre. it has become a huge part of hiphop to commetn on politics with the election of president obama in the US and the british working class's general distrust and resentment of our own Goverment.

So, if you havent tried to understand, dont comment. jus stick to SMooth fm so you dont have to engage your brain to understand a song.

as for the article, i dont really see the connection, i think all cultures have probably thrown insults back an forth?
47

glasgone,

07/01/2009 15:25:19
sorry to go on, but it had to be said.

also, to those who hate hiphop so much, why were you even looking at this article?

word to 54;Ed's everywhere, definately the world's most powerful oral vehicle.

 

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