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Ross Lydall's by-election blog

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Published Date: 23 July 2008
Wednesday, 10.20am
AT last, a decent debate. Well done, Radio Scotland. Its Good Morning Extra programme has just broadcast an hour-long programme that allowed the Glasgow East candidates the opportunity to make their points well, and to conjour up a few decent soundbi
tes as the campaign enters its final hours.

Many of the arguments had been made before. But the news story was surely the refusal of Margaret Curran, the Labour candidate, to promise to live in the constituency if she wins on Thursday.

She was pushed on this point by a caller to the show. Instead of giving an unambiguous pledge to up sticks and relocate in the East End, she performed a mighty swerve and offered only an admission that she had made a "slip of the tongue" in previously claiming to have lived and worked in the East End all her life.

As her opponents were quick to point out, the reality is that she has lived in at least three different addresses in the more affluent south-side of Glasgow for around 20 years.

Must an MP live in the constituency? No. So why is this an issue? For two reasons. As the First Minister, Alex Salmond, said yesterday, it's an issue because Ms Curran had "told fibs" about her home address.

The second reason is that Ms Curran has vowed to be a "fighter" for the East End. That's more easily done when you are witnessing its problems on a daily basis, not on a once-a-week trip to the community centre for a weekly surgery with constituents on a Friday.

To make matters worse for Labour, Ms Curran's SNP rival, John Mason, does live in the constituency. Predictably he reminded listeners of this fact.

Asked who he would vote for if he could not vote for himself, he said: "I live in this constituency. I'm voting for myself. I'm the candidate who lives here."

Aside from this, there were some good soundbites, the best of which was uttered by the Liberal Democrat candidate, Ian Robertson. He said: "If this is a two-horse race, then both horses should be put down and we should start again."

Tory Davena Rankin offered up this on the hardline independence stance of Mr Mason: "He is obsessed. I'm more interested in Glasgow East."

Ms Curran's best dig at Mr Mason related to him being constantly in the shadow of the First Minister. "Sometimes on this campaign I have felt I have been running against Alex Salmond," she said. She was less able, however, to answer the presenter's question about the whereabouts - ie absence - of Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

Mr Mason, for his part, was still obsessed with the Prime Minister's decision to invite Baroness Thatcher to tea at 10 Downing Street last year. He said that "Margaret Thatcher and Gordon Brown are hand in hand".

Later today we will hear the final thoughts of the First Minister on the campaign. Expect the wily old dog to feed the media pack another line. The contrast between the leaden Labour campaign and the battle-hardened SNP operations could not be starker.

The SNP may not win tomorrow's vote, but they've already achieved victory in the battle for the airwaves and front pages.

Tuesday 10.35pm

Car-crash TV. That's the best way to describe what I have just witnessed (and what is being broadcast by STV as I type).

Earlier this evening, STV pre-recorded its "Politics Now" Glasgow East by-election special. This featured the four candidates cross-questioning each other in the Pacific Quay studio, and the involvement of around 20 voters in a separate studio somewhere in the East End. Its sheer awfulness should make riveting telly. It certainly made BBC Newsnicht's efforts last week, which at the time were too bitty to result in a great story, seem highly professional.

Not to undermine the team at STV, you understand. They can only pick from the cards they have been dealt. But this was a poor level of political debate, featuring lots of sniping focusing mainly on broken promises from Holyrood. For a Westminster election, the responsibilities of the UK Goverment hardly got a look in.

And what of the candidates? The SNP's John Mason sounded good - his voice resonates well on TV - and made a decent stab of sticking to his guns. Labour's Margaret Curran, by contrast, was more shrill, and may be possibly be tiring from what has been a hectic pace of campaign.

She did, however, taunt Mr Mason for being forever unable to stand up to the SNP First Minister, Alex Salmond. (Asked to say what the pair disagreed on, Mr Mason could venture only their choice of football team.) Ian Robertson of the Liberal Democrats was neither good nor bad.

But for me the star of the show was Davena Rankin, the Tory candidate. She seems at last to have found her voice - and gave Mr Robertson dog's abuse after cleverly turning on its head his (too clever) question about Tory plans for a fuel regulator. Are you really suggesting that I should not back plans that would cut 5p off a litre of fuel, she asked incredulously? Smart move, Davena.

She went on to lambast him as a LibDem who "flips and flaps", which produced giggles from the hacks and spin doctors behind the scenes in the green room. Mr Mason also felt the sharp end of her tongue. Having marked her 4.5 out of 10 in today's Scotsman, I feel I owe Davina an extra point. Some voters may feel the same way too come Thursday.

But overall, despite much heat and a belief that this would be better suited to YouTube than network TV, there remains only a cigarette paper or two between the SNP and Labour when it comes down to the candidates.
Not that that will concern the voters unduly: I reckon they will be more focused on the cost of fuel, food and fags - and whether it's time to call time on Gordon Brown's New Labour project.

Have you got a question for a Glasgow East by-election? Let us ask it for you! Click here to post your questions for the Labour, SNP, Conservative and Lib-Dem candidates, courtesy of our partners at www.yoosk.com. The most voted for queries will be put to the candidates and published here at www.scotsman.com.



Page 1 of 1

 
1

Jimmy the Pie,

23/07/2008 00:33:25
Has New Labour Sleaze and Corruption's Red Wendy been out supporting her best pal, The Screaming Harridan???
Or is she too ashamed to show face after her criminal activities were revealed.

Speaking of criminal activities has Lord Watson of Bonfire been out on the streets???

Have the Sleaze party's criminals of the moment, Mr Marshall and his wife and daughter been out lending their support to the cause of self improvement and swindling??

Yes good socialists all of them!!!
2

GM,

23/07/2008 00:36:53
Phew - post number 1 snuck in under AM2's radar -

I'm not that overzealous to suggest the SNP will win this seat - although my heart begs for it!

A labour win with a majority of no more than 1,000

This should be hugely damaging to Labour and such a swing should bring the hopes and fears of several labour MP's and MSP's into sharp relief...
3

GM,

23/07/2008 00:37:08
B u gger... too slow
4

GM,

23/07/2008 00:39:39
"The SNP's John Mason sounded good - his voice resonates well on TV - and made a decent stab of sticking to his guns. Labour's Margaret Curran, by contrast, was more shrill, and may be possibly be tiring from what has been a hectic pace of campaign."


When are labour going to learn that negative campaigning and sniping at opponents wins them every little respect and votes these days?

It seems that in the last 5 days, labours campaign has sharply focussed on attacking the SNP rather than promoting their own agenda for this constituency.
5

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 23/07/2008 00:42:02
I agree it made cringe worthy viewing. It seems that Westminster and what it deals with is now so overshadowed by what occurs at Holyrood that none of the candidates seem capable of either differentiating between what are devolved and reserved powers. Policing, housing, etc are devolved and should not even be discussed. This is not a Holyrood by-election. Treaury matters, Social security, defence and foreign policy are the matters that need concern these candidates since only on these matters will they have any say.
6

GM,

23/07/2008 00:42:17
@2

he quickly moderated one abusive post directed at him, but seems less inclined to deal with the c.1,000 posts made by Mr Banks...

Looks like he will have to wait until morning to get a real mod to get rid of Mr Bank's account.
(and he cant even blame the SNP for this!)
7

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 23/07/2008 00:46:04
The Aberdeen City Council thread was hijacked by AM2 and Free by 93 for an attack on Swinney and finally destroyed by multiple obscene postings. Yet the Scotsman seems incapable of putting a stop to this cybervandalism.
8

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 00:49:42
8

I agree I hate when the SNP prevent free debate on an SNP failure.

A typical freedom hating SNP activist posted over 900 times an obscenity because pages can only display 1,000 posts.

This is typical of the SNP voters. They are scary characters, I am glad I am anonymous.
9

GM,

23/07/2008 00:52:48
@8

yup, both used the story to simply stir up comments on Swinney and LIT - a bit desperate really. Swinney appears in the article in just about name only as the person the Labour group have reported their issues to, but that didn't stop AM2 squirming in defence of his 'contribution'.
10

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 23/07/2008 00:56:32
Aberdeen City Council's difficulties are not the result of SNP failures. The problems began long before they were in the administration there. It was the coalition in which they now are with the Libdems (as junior partners) that discovered the massive deficits £27m (or is it £50m?)which was the legacy of previous administrations, and have tried to sort the mess.
11

GM,

23/07/2008 00:57:52
@10

I think you'll find that Mr Banks is actually not a supported of the SNP - rather a unionist who just has a dislike of AM2.

Still, at least he is open about his cybervandalism... AM2 can destroy a thread in a much more subtle way - and the thread in question is a very clear example of his attempts to do this.

You, 'Free by 93', on the other hand are quite an obvious troll*



*I use the word 'troll' but really, your attempts on this forum to stir things up score about 0.2 on the trollometer (zero being worst, 10 being the best troll)
12

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 00:58:11
11

Oh so it was you who posted in excess of 900 times an obscenity to restrict others from free comment? You are some of self-appointed moderator.

I expect you'll be boasting about your cyberterrorism down the local with the other freedom-haters on benefits day.
13

GM,

23/07/2008 00:59:19
@10

can you please detail the 'SNP failure' you are referring to?
14

GM,

23/07/2008 01:02:04
@14

no

and

no


I've been posting here for a very long time and see no need to resort to such tactics.
By way of background, I should explain to you that I vote SNP but I am neither an activist or indeed support all their policies. You can confirm with AM2 that I actually feel the LIT is a mistake and may become a bit of an albatross to the SNP... and I have posted my views openly here.

15

GM,

23/07/2008 01:03:25
@14

do you have any comment to make on this article at all?

Did you see the program in question?
16

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 01:16:14
Yes I did. I must say it is typical of the SNP, they are professional agitators of the worst kind, same as Labour. So when it is Labour v the SNP of course no-one cares what the election is or what they should be debating and just bickering over who personally "wins".

Labour and the SNP will destroy Scotland between them.
17

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 01:17:56
Labour and the SNP could argue over the time of day.

The SNP would start with greenwhich meantime and imperalism no doubt, how we need an extra hour up here because it gets dark too early. Labour would argue that an extra 30 mins would be good under devolution.

They are a complete joke, childish bickering is the norm, gesture student politics at best.
18

Edward,

23/07/2008 02:06:36
Watched STV's 'Politics Now' and agree the programme was let down by Margaret Curran's over the top attacks on the SNP. She was obviously breifed what to say, for at times what she said seemed out of step with what was being asked!.The number of times she would say 'Thats a good question' when asked something got very tiring and embaressing, came a ccross as a complete amateur. As pointed out by Huntley Loon, most if not all the discussion was on topics that are actually devolved. Obviosly Curran is not aware that Policing and crime prevention are devolved matters, or has she not being paying attention all the while in Holyrood!
19

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 03:52:27
I see the Scotsman is engaging in News Of The World
style headlines -

"Glasgow East: Curran warned of death threat"

see - tinyurl.com/56qel2

Of course if you bother to read the article it is the
other Curran the Socialist one that is being referred to
not the champagne socialist Ms Curran who lives
in a one million £ house.

see - tinyurl.com/6mfld5

Perhaps the socialist Ms Curran got in trouble for
her new leaflet :

"VOTE FOR THE LEFT CURRAN NOT THE RIGHT CURRAN"

The leaflet contrasts Frances as being a Socialist with Labour candidate Margaret Curran who the SSP say used to be one.

see - tinyurl.com/57c2jt

Perhaps Gordon Brown meant it when they said they
would do anything and everything to
preserve the Union ?

I hope the voters of Glasgow East don't get confused here and vote for the Curran who is
falsely adversing herself as a Socialist.
20

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 04:14:05
Interesting article from the Telegraph

"Labour facing humiliation in Glasgow East by-election"

"{Labour is facing humiliation in Thursday's Glasgow East by-election, with less than a thousand votes separating it from defeat in one of the party's safest seats."

see - tinyurl.com/6437ca

Also it includes a bit more on the Marshall
Clan's scamming :

He also paid £75,000 per year in staff costs to one person, listed a C Marshall, thought to be his 66-year-old wife, Christine.

It was revealed yesterday that he let his 31-year-old daughter, Christina, operate two property companies from the same address.

The firms, which handle a £270,000 property portfolio, were registered at Mr Marshall's home in March this year.

Ian Robertson, the Liberal Democrat candidate said "serious questions" had to be asked and called for assurances no taxpayers' money was used inappropriately.
21

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 04:48:00
21/22

The article isn't really about what you posted.

You are lucky the SNP support your irrelevant ways, because otherwist they would shutdown this thread because they hate freedom of speech.

The SNP have a freaky following.
22

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 04:49:46
(I am of course referring to the wierdo who posted over 950 times on both SNP articles critical of the SNP.)

That is actually an offence in law to sabotage a website like that, scary eh? To have thugs openly running about in the name of "the cause".
23

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 04:55:49
23 Free by '93

"21/22

The article isn't really about what you posted. "

Really, I thought this article was about the
Glasgow By-Election so both posts are completely
relevant. Interestingly most other articles
done allow comments, potentially due
to Unionist abuse I suspect ?



24

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 05:09:08
25

It's about the quality of debate. But my words "isn't really" just acknowledge there is only a vague or stretched relevance as any intelligent person will note.

Of course it's okay with me what you posted and with everyone else. I was just pointing out that you are lucky you don't have to put up with the SNP stalkers, vandals and law breakers who abuse websites.

It wasn't unionist abuse at all. An SNP voter started using expletives because John Swinney had made a mess of something and this was commented upon by AM2.

The SNP wierdo posted 950 times or more on two threads to deliberately shut them down. Cyberattacks or what, that is the quality of SNP person these sites attract.
25

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 05:11:17
26 Free by '93

How do you know it was an "SNP wierdo" and not
a Unionist weirdo, do you work for the Scotsman ?
26

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 05:18:46
27

Experience and the content of what they were posting.

When someone criticises Cameron, Brown, Clegg or Darling, Osbourne etc you never see some voter lose the plot and have a mental breakdown.

I wish I could say the same about the SNP, they attract a somewhat more..., um, shall we say, passionate contributor? You know a real fruit, a bit of a plum, a couple petrol tokens short of a toaster, not quite the full picnic, a violent moon-gazer etc.

I'm sure you know the type well.
27

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 05:22:07
Msybe when I said passioante, I should have said loyal or attached. The same way someone might be to a cult, you know loyal and emotionally attached. Willing to attack and shut down websites that post the truth about their leader, you know like scientology does. "Fair gaming" I think they call it, I'm sure SNP hq has a similair term for orchestrated cyber-attacks on critical threads on this website.

I'm suprised you don't distance yourself from this vandalism? Maybe you approve, scary.
28

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 05:23:14
28 Free by '93
"You know a real fruit, a bit of a plum, a couple petrol tokens short of a toaster, not quite the full picnic, a violent moon-gazer etc"

Yep I know the type well- didn't you realize
they were Unionist ?

Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba
The Master
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikstratos
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
29

Free by '93,

23/07/2008 05:25:24
30

Oh dear, you've started that crazed SNP thing when someone quietly mentions something about one of your kind.

You go off the railings and start making random insults about specific people/posters.

Why can;t you just acknowledge it is shameful to stifle free debate by posting 1,900 over 2 article critical of the SNP to shut them down.
30

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 05:32:39
31 Free by '93

Hmm, I believe you were that one that went
"off the railings and start making random insults" :

"You know a real fruit, a bit of a plum, a couple petrol tokens short of a toaster, not quite the full picnic, a violent moon-gazer etc"

By the way I do agree with you that
"it is shameful to stifle free debate by posting
1,900" - I never said otherwise, shame
you were so eager to make such a random
insult by assuming otherwise.

Slàinte mhor
31

Traquir , Alba,

23/07/2008 05:36:49
Looks like the Unions are not too keen on
Labour's latest embracing of Tory policies.


"Unions condemn 'draconian and regressive' welfare reforms"

"Mark Serwotka, general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union, who said: "These proposals are regressive and draconian, going further than even Thatcher dared in the 1980s."

see - tinyurl.com/66ucxk

I wonder how the people of Glasgow East will
take Brown's latest embrace of Thatcherism ?
32

catgut,

pomona 23/07/2008 06:20:16
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1037387/Is-Glasgow-East-going-New-Labours-graveyard.html


try this for ceash news
33

kt mcallan,

23/07/2008 06:28:42
margaret curran's attempts to soften her image (baby pink jacket on politics now and SLIGHTLY less screetching) do not detract from the fact that she is UNABLE to defend her party's appalling record in government and the plain truth that all that ghastly party's campaigning has been negative campaigning against the SNP.
I hope that everyone who votes tomorrow is well aware of the marshall and his daughter: 500,000 reasons not to vote for the liebour party scandal.screaming harridan keeps quiet on THAT one and the media has totally let her off from answering questions on it.
As for the politics now show - with ms curran on board you couldn't POSSIBLY have a fair run at candidates interviewing each other reasonably? allowing that screetching looney to interview her fellow candidates was a sick joke, please!What a stupid format, really disappointing.
34

roughrider,

Glasgow 23/07/2008 07:17:56
STV should get rid of the idiot that produced this piece of amateur dross, it was the worst political program I have ever witnessed.
As for screeching Curran well as usual she made a complete fool of herself,"what do you and A.Salmond disagree on" nag,nag,nag finger waving demented banshee.DOES SHE REALIZE HOW PATHETIC SHE COMES ACROSS?
As for Crowball how this clown got into tv is baffling ,the guy is a labour plant, a fixed stupid smirk on his mush, interrupting people without letting them answer the question he had just asked.
Terrible stuff from the amateurs at STV.
35

,

23/07/2008 08:18:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
36

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 08:24:20
#29 The standard of debate on these forums is entirely down to idiots like you, mostly Unionists, posting sniping and abuse (even your username is a pathetic sneer) instead of trying to defend Labour's indefensible record. It's understandable, of course - no spin doctor on Earth could make Labour look good now - but no less despicable for that. Some Nationalists take the troll bait, sadly, but there's only a certain amount of you and your ilk's cynical wrecking that people can stand, and it's HILARIOUS to watch you suddenly try to claim the moral high ground and pretend you seek intelligent discourse.

Want to prove me wrong? Why not start by answering the questions at post #59 of the welfare reforms story?
37

jacquesmac,

23/07/2008 08:35:30
Am the only one who nhought that during last night's debate on STV, Margaret Curran was receiving feed through an earpiece.

There were time during the open questioning she smiled as though prompted on a point via her earpiece and then launched onto a prepared script.

She also seemed to be touching her ear several times, as though to reposition the same earpiece?

It was impossible to see to be definitive as her hair covered both ears though my eyes suggested that her left ear was wired.

Call me paranoid maybe, but

Did anyone see the same, think the same?

I noticed no similar open earpieces on the other 3 candidates who all had their ears fulltime in view.
38

Arrow,

edinburgh 23/07/2008 08:51:24
saw the "debate" last night and after 10 minutes switched to the History Channel. however, can someone please tell me why this paper has no mention of the article in the Herald regarding the use of the previous MP's house for running 2 property letting businesses from the same address. perhaps the Inland Revenue needs to have a look at the various bills for say telephones that were claimed as business expenses and those claimed as parliamentary expenses. rental income paid by the two businesses to the owner of the house unless of course the owner of the house was also part of the two businesses. as Many Shinwell used to say "there is a smell of stinking fish".
39

Andy Stewart,

Kirkaldy 23/07/2008 09:07:12
I am a betting man and predict the SNP will take Glasgow East with a majority of 500 votes.
For more comments please log on to political betting.com.
Thank You
40

AJ Fife,

23/07/2008 09:30:49
Mason certainly looked and sounded the part and is a proven asset to the Glasgow East community!

There can be only one........
41

Doh,

23/07/2008 09:58:58


I dont think Ross could have watched the same show as me. Davina Rankin was the worst of the 4 candidates - her invitation to the public to "forget ancient history" was an interesting take on governemnt responsibility.

She also repeated several smears accusing Labour/ibDems of being soft on knife crime - without beign able to substantiate her accussations.

Oh yes what was the unemployment level in the East End under Thatcher?

The "flips anf flaps" was just another cheap shot - that maybe raised a laugh from some Tory spin doctors.

However I have to say the worst performers were the assembled group of 20 voters - be honest - their questiosn and responses were poor.

The best part of the format was allowing the candidates to question each other.

All in all a good show.
42

,

23/07/2008 10:04:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:04:26
What a hoot!!

Now I know why Salmond IS the SNP campaign in Glasgow East and why Mason is led by the hand everyday by Eck.

Jing is this REALLY the best Separatist candidate?

The hands may have stopped shaking, the answers, er, wooden (like the candidate himself), but he looked like he was suppressing a laugh - and 'pouting' - what was all that about?

44

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:06:32
39

hehe


The Separatist conspiracy continues, Curran, we're told, was miked up - paranoia, pure and simple.
45

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 10:09:49
#44 ... Wow you're paranoid.

#40 Yes indeed, why no mention of the Marshall allegations? And why is the Hootsman clearing and closing any discussion threads that dare to mention it - as happened overnight with on the Salmond story... The Herald and even the tabloids have picked up on this story but yet again the Scotsman has its eyes covered and fingers in its ears to anything that the Labour parasites (alledgedly) do wrong...
46

,

23/07/2008 10:11:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
47

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 10:19:33
#44 You still haven't told us what your objection to that comment is, dear.
48

kt mcallan,

scotland 23/07/2008 10:21:53
"stop running down the east end" yes, cruella de curran wants us all to forget how her lying cronies have done nothing for the east end, prefering instead to line their own pockets and those of their wives and daughters.Howevever positively one looks at the east end it cannot be denied that labour has failed the area.
Labour -Corrupt liars undeserving of the votes and the trust of the people.
49

AJ Fife,

23/07/2008 10:22:00
#47,

Marshall is another disaster in waiting for the Labour Party. Let's hope so anyway! Surely the Glasgow East voting public can't keep returning a corrupt party to government?!?
50

SECURITY,

On cyber patrol 23/07/2008 10:30:34
ATTENTION ATTENTION. The Herald forum users have mounted a very effective campaign in

ignoring the trolls. This has resulted in them being ostracised and death swiftly follows. These

sad cyber slaves need the oxygen of your responses as they are attention seeking social

misfits who have one life only on line. Deny them the oxygen of your reaction to their

agitation.

The following monikers are some of the more common ones mostly used by the same person.

It has now come to our attention that these are state sponsored agent provoceteurs operating

from Millbank, and finaced by MI5. The amount of data they can pull up quickly confirms this,

especially the rabid paranoid AM2 call sign who has a permanent presence on here, and must

by now be quite insane as he has been on duty since April 2007.


They will easily be defeated if we all just IGNORE THE TROLLS. Continue with the debate but

do not respond to their lies. You will be amazed how quick and effective this is.


IGNORE THESE TROLLS.

Others will spring up to fill the gaps but they are easily spotted and dealt with in the same

way.


IGNORE THE TROLLS.


DEATH TO ALL TROLLS.


IGNORE THEM TO DEATH.

KILL THE TROLLS.


Free by '93,
Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba (very smelly foul mothed mong, do not approach!)
The Master
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikostratos
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
sm753
British Pride
Boudica
Langtonian,
Grahmski,
L for L,
Galactic
Cannabal
RBNR.
51

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:32:45
46

Yeah, but to be fair, he did promise a slimmed down administration - and in one slight of hand dumped the whole lot on Swinney - Meenster For Everything!!

BTW, did you see Eck on't TV last night - "Twa denners" needs to get on some fitness programme or the SNP's Obesity Minister gets onto him.

52

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 10:32:53
ATTENTION ATTENTION. The Herald forum users have mounted a very effective campaign in ignoring the trolls. This has resulted in them being ostracised and death swiftly follows. These sad cyber slaves need the oxygen of your responses as they are attention seeking social misfits who have one life only on line. Deny them the oxygen of your reaction to their agitation.

The following monikers are some of the more common ones mostly used by the same person. It has now come to our attention that these are state sponsored agent provoceteurs operating from Millbank, and finaced by MI5. The amount of data they can pull up quickly confirms this, especially the rabid paranoid AM2 call sign who has a permanent presence on here, and must by now be quite insane as he has been on duty since April 2007.


They will easily be defeated if we all just IGNORE THE TROLLS. Continue with the debate but do not respond to their lies. You will be amazed how quick and effective this is.
Make your points and debate with the non agitators.

IGNORE THESE TROLLS.

Others will spring up to fill the gaps but they are easily spotted and dealt with in the same way.


IGNORE THE TROLLS.


DEATH TO ALL TROLLS.


IGNORE THEM TO DEATH.

KILL THE TROLLS.


Free by '93,
Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba (very smelly foul mothed mong, do not approach!)
The Master
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikostratos
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
sm753
British Pride
Boudica
Langtonian,
Grahmski,
L for L,
Galactic
Cannabal
RBNR.
53

brownlie,

23/07/2008 10:32:58
44 Paisley Pete

Congratulations, great post!!

By your own admission the Strathclyde police have not identified the possible "assailants" but you can identify them as SNP "thugs".

She can sleep safely now that Ciderman is on the case!
54

brownlie,

23/07/2008 10:34:55
53 British Pride

Quite right, too, it is obvious to every-one that all unionist politicians are slim, trim and elegant.
55

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 10:38:44
You have to chuckle... obviously I spoke too soon about Labour paranoia... we obviously have it alive and well on our side too (#52 & #54)... I'm sat here giggling at the thought of AM2, Highland Mighty and Grahamski being in MI5 - dogmatic (AM2) and upleasant (Highland Mighty & Grahamski) they may be, but I think we can sleep safely knowing that the security of the nation isn't in their hands...

56

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 10:39:04
#52 SECURITY

Your conspiratorial delusions about MI5 and the like are your own problem. But your list of non-nationalist posters as "trolls" and your "KILL THE TROLLS" direction is frankly sinister. I would hope that all decent nationalists posting here would distance themselves from your efforts to inhibit free speech.
57

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:39:48
56

Remember the Nats Con? Opening pic has him down to something like 9 stone - he doesn't look right. He looks ill, not slim.

I'm not alleging this new Eck is to con the public, of course.

58

,

23/07/2008 10:41:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

brownlie,

23/07/2008 10:43:02
58 AM2

The biggest inhibition to "free speech" on this site is that individuals use multiple monikers to agree with or even praise their own contributions.

Then again, perhaps the biggest inhibition is the Scotsman not allowing comments on specific articles which may be embarassing to one side or another.
60

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 10:43:41

ACTION STATIONS ALERT ALERT




ATTENTION ATTENTION. The Herald forum users have mounted a very effective campaign in ignoring the trolls. This has resulted in them being ostracised and death swiftly follows. These sad cyber slaves need the oxygen of your responses as they are attention seeking social misfits who have one life only on line. Deny them the oxygen of your reaction to their agitation.

The following monikers are some of the more common ones mostly used by the same person. It has now come to our attention that these are state sponsored agent provoceteurs operating from Millbank, and finaced by MI5. The amount of data they can pull up quickly confirms this, especially the rabid paranoid AM2 call sign who has a permanent presence on here, and must by now be quite insane as he has been on duty since April 2007.


They will easily be defeated if we all just IGNORE THE TROLLS. Continue with the debate but do not respond to their lies. You will be amazed how quick and effective this is.
Make your points and debate with the non agitators.

IGNORE THESE TROLLS.

Others will spring up to fill the gaps but they are easily spotted and dealt with in the same way.


IGNORE THE TROLLS.


DEATH TO ALL TROLLS.


IGNORE THEM TO DEATH.

KILL THE TROLLS.


Free by '93,
Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba (very smelly foul mothed mong, do not approach!)
The Master
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikostratos
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
sm753
British Pride
Boudica
Langtonian,
Grahmski,
L for L,
Galactic
Cannabal
RBNR.
61

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:45:17
58

This intemperate language (KILL THE TROLLS), as D-Day Dawns, is symptomatic of panic and fear. Wonder if this language could ever lead to court action?

Still, I would hate to think this somehow fits into the threats on Frances Curran.

Strathclyde's Finest will sort it out, nae problem. Oh wait, they can't, something to do with a dumped SNP promise to provide more cops.


62

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 10:46:33
#61 brownlie

Re multiple monikers, you seem to be agreeing with "SECURITY".

So is that some kind of veiled confession?
63

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:46:50
Scottish Cringe -

SNP talking up the problems in Glasgow's East End
SNP talking down to the people who live there.
64

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 10:50:05
#64 AM2... time was when you would engage in debate on those forums - but now you're nothing but visceral...


65

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 10:51:06
typo... "these forums" even...
66

European Scot,

23/07/2008 10:51:34
58 AM2

The day before a crucial by-election, and all of the comments sections on stories relating to it, are closed down, except for this one 'blog'.
The 'Scotsman', always the one to surprise.
Never predictable !
Inhibit free speech AM2 ?
What exactly is this publication doing today ?
This is far more worrying, than the over the top comments of an individual poster.
67

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 10:54:40
68

Save your complaints, the problem will be sorted soon enough. Sales of the hootsman and Herald (and all other regional/local papers) are spiralling downwards.

It's reckoned that within a decade neither of the 2 Scots qualities will be with us anymore.

BTW, Scottish Editions of The Dauily Mail, etc, remain robust.

Wouldn't it be ironic if anti-Hootsman posters end up being forced to use the only ones left, the blogs on so-called "English" papers!!
68

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 10:56:13
#60

You said: "Curran was just horrible, what a rancorous bitter and twisted person she is" and called her "this duplicitous harridan".

That provides an interesting case study in double standards.

Yesterday, on the benefits thread, I posted this:

"Mason indulges in particularly nasty scaremongering, referring to “scrapping incapacity benefit” (without making plain what will replace it) and hinting that “genuinely disabled and genuinely ill” people will be disadvantaged (which isn’t true). He is worrying people unnecessarily – for the sake of political gain."

The post was seized upon as offensive. I had called Mr Mason "nasty", it was claimed. It was a "personal attack". It was "disgraceful".

My post was even reported to the moderator on that basis. Thankfully, he wasn't taken in.

Do you agree with yesterday's posters that tirades directed against unionists are acceptable but any personal criticism, however mild, of nationalists crosses the line?
69

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 10:57:20
#66 Chris.J

This isn't a typical thread. I would debate given the chance. Try me.
70

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 10:58:59
#68 Exactly...

We have trolls and bigots on both sides - its very easy to ignore them.

But what we can't ignore is a "quality" national newspaper that time and time again refuses to publish (or even allow discussion) of important issues when they may be damaging to the Labour Party. Yet we have a constant flow of trivial non-stories that are used to smear the SNP. Where is the grown-up debate and mature politics?
71

Publius,

London 23/07/2008 10:59:31
#30 Traquir

Your insult is as unfair as it is gratuitous. My political views have been entirely open on this board. I voted for the SNP in the 2007 election. (If I had a vote in Glasgow East I'd vote SNP in the by-election.) But I think the SNP government is not as successful as the SNP makes out. (1) There is little chance of independence in the near future so the SNP should try to make the best of working within the Scotland Act. (2) LIT is ill thought out. Even it is implemented it will cause more problems than it solves. (3) SNP attacks on trams in Edinburgh have become tedious. I opposed trams too. But when the price of oil shot up, it made a trams a more or less viable proposition. A serious party should change its policies when circumstances change.
Insulting people who disagree with you demeans you, not them. Continue insulting them and you will find that no-one will take any notice of you.
72

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:02:16
#68 European Scot

Late last night that "David Banks" character (aka Ford Transit, Tripod etc) spammed the Swinney/Aberdeen thread with an obscenity directed at me - almost 1000 times in order to close down the thread. After post #1000 no further posts are allowed.

The Scotsman's buggy forum software appears to have been unable to deal with that, as also happened the previous day, so it seems that they had to remove the whole thread.

Why do you see that as the Scotsman inhibiting free speech?
73

,

23/07/2008 11:03:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 11:03:51
#71 "I would debate given the chance. Try me."

I tried you on the welfare thread. Two days and still waiting.
75

Rob Marrs,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 11:04:21
Ross,

Come on. She stung Robertson on that one point but was woeful when she was ''cross-examining'' Curran.

I thought Iain was star of the show but it was his worst performance. Everywhere else he has walked all over political pygmies of Mason, Rankin and Curran.

R
76

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:04:37
At base level, this just comes down to dot-com transitional paradigm shifts.
Our exploratory research points to 'Outside the box' asset projections.


End.
77

Publius,

London 23/07/2008 11:05:37
#62 Security

I accept your challenge. Water pistols at dawn on Arthur's Seat.
78

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:06:23
#73 Publius

For what it's worth, I greatly appreciate your thoughtful posts. You've been critical of some my positions in the past, often with justification, and I'm grateful for that.
79

Publius,

London 23/07/2008 11:07:18
#75 Security

Now it's paintballs.
80

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:07:31
Hehe! Bizarre juxtaposition. Post #79 isn't one of your most thoughtful!
81

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 11:09:38
77

Agreed - not as strong as before, but he did OK. With Curran, the best candidates.

The Lib Dems need to find him a safe seat.

82

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 11:09:47
#71 OK - Care to comment on whether the timing of this snap by-election is just a means of avoiding the repercussions something nasty in Marshall's expenses being exposed? Also, why are Cairns and Curran refusing to acknowledge it as a story (or even pretending to know nothing about it)? Cairns may be many things, but he is not ill-informed!
83

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:10:55
Cyber cannons loaded.....check

drive mission-critical dialogue...check

unleash thematic stakeholders....check

deliver critical applications...check

aggregate proactive methodologies...check

visualize intuitive pedagogy....check.


ALL UNITS STANDBY, OUT.
84

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:11:49
#77 Rob Marrs

Agreed re Ian Robertson. Smart lad. Definitely one to watch.
85

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:13:58
#84 Chris.J

Re timing, I think it quite likely. Cairns et al would be very foolish to comment.
86

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:16:28
By modifying this life sensor spectrum, we can make it work in conjunction with the anti-matter operating grid.

I believe that this will increase the efficiency of the troll arrestor maintenance undefined by 44 percent. Thus reducing the load on the auto optical plate.

I think there's something wrong with the communication matter tie-in
87

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 11:17:18
AM2? AM2? Still waiting for that intelligent debate on welfare reform. Are you there? Hello?
88

,

23/07/2008 11:18:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:19:02
#83 Scottish 'N British

Agree. I would still rank them thus:

1. Ian Robertson
2. Margaret Curran
3. John Mason
4. Davena Rankin
90

,

23/07/2008 11:20:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:21:06
#89 "Rev" S Campbell

No, I wasn't there. I've been here. Can't you see that?
92

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:21:07
A notable omission from the Labour campaign in Glasgow has been any endorsement from Mr Marshall. Nor has the party helped explain his family business arrangements and expense claims. David Marshall has been airbrushed. The campaign has focused on candidate Margaret Curran, to underline this is about Glasgow East's future rather than the Labour's past.

The key factor raising eyebrows about the timing of Mr Marshall's resignation is the publication, in the next few weeks, of details of MPs employing their own family members. October is scheduled to see publication of claims under the equally controversial second-homes allowance, with media and public astonishment at the extent to which London flats are kitted out at public expense.

For Mr Marshall, information already in the public domain shows a "C Marshall" - both his wife and his daughter are called Christina - earned at least £75,000 over recent years. He charged the Commons authorities a reported £17,000 per year for the costs of running his constituency office out of his Glasgow home.
93

,

23/07/2008 11:21:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
94

brownlie,

23/07/2008 11:23:19
64 AM2

There is nothing in my posting to indicate that I agree with SECURITY so your hunt for a veiled confession is in vain.

My posting was purely with regard to the stifling of free speech and I'm sorry that you appear unable to see it as such. As a matter of fact, previously, on this thread I have stood up for your right to free speech when you were being stalked by an idiot.

I only post in my name and even if you or anyone else feels I am talking absolute balls that is their opinion and they are entitled to voice their opinion.

Going back to security's posting my view is that it is very much tongue in cheek and I regard it as such.

However, someone with your obvious intelligence must look at his list and be able to identify those who use multiple monikers.
95

,

23/07/2008 11:23:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
96

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:23:35
Is the Herald more pro Unionist than the Scotsman?

The above article #92,94,95 would suggest not.
97

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:24:09
#90 Tyrone Shoulders

Totally unacceptable. As a society, we can't afford for the discourse to become so acrimonious.
98

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 11:24:18
#93 "No, I wasn't there. I've been here. Can't you see that?"

For two days non-stop? A telling insight into your life, there. Still, take your time. I'm used to waiting for you to answer simple questions, I'm ready when you are.
99

SECURITY,

23/07/2008 11:24:42
ACTION STATIONS

ATTENTION ATTENTION. The Herald forum users have mounted a very effective campaign in ignoring the trolls. This has resulted in them being ostracised and death swiftly follows. These sad cyber slaves need the oxygen of your responses as they are attention seeking social misfits who have one life only on line. Deny them the oxygen of your reaction to their agitation.

The following monikers are some of the more common ones mostly used by the same person. It has now come to our attention that these are state sponsored agent provoceteurs operating from Millbank, and finaced by MI5. The amount of data they can pull up quickly confirms this, especially the rabid paranoid AM2 call sign who has a permanent presence on here, and must by now be quite insane as he has been on duty since April 2007.


They will easily be defeated if we all just IGNORE THE TROLLS. Continue with the debate but do not respond to their lies. You will be amazed how quick and effective this is.
Make your points and debate with the non agitators.

IGNORE THESE TROLLS.

Others will spring up to fill the gaps but they are easily spotted and dealt with in the same way.


IGNORE THE TROLLS.


DEATH TO ALL TROLLS.


IGNORE THEM TO DEATH.

KILL THE TROLLS.

Scottish 'N British
Free by '93,
Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba (very smelly foul mothed mong, do not approach!)
The Master
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikostratos
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
sm753
British Pride
Boudica
Langtonian,
Grahmski,
L for L,
Galactic
Cannabal
RBNR.

KILL THE TROLLS
100

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:25:06
#96 brownlie

Touchy? My post was tongue-in-cheek. I'll use a ;-) next time. Relax!
101

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:27:16
#100 "Rev" S Campbell

No, for less than two hours. I posted to you in the welfare thread at 9:40 this morning.
102

European Scot,

23/07/2008 11:29:52
69 Scottish 'N' British

" It's reckoned that within a decade neither of the 2 Scots qualities will be with us anymore."

I think you are probably right about the fate of this publication, although there has been talk of an amalgamation of 'the Herald' and 'the Scotsman'.
As for within the decade, well with Independence by then, we could do with a nice new open publication to reflect that !.
In terms of general news, I would be more likely to trust a newspaper like 'the Independent', which tends to give a fair account of events.
It being English is of no consequence, it just happens to be a good newspaper.
It is a pity that 'the Scotsman' isn't living up to its name, and spearheading Scotland's moves to re-instate itself as an Independent country.
Unfortunately it is controlled by its British masters, and so toes the 'UK' line.
It seems to suffer from a kind of schizophrenia, which others on these threads appear to display !
103

,

23/07/2008 11:29:54
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Reason:
104

,

23/07/2008 11:30:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
105

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 11:30:32
#86, 77 - yup - agreed. This may be a lost cause for the libdems, but its good timing for Robertson personally and he's earned a shot at somewhere with a good chance - I'll be interested to see if/where he pops up again in the Hollyrood or Westminster general elections..

#89 - Actually some debate on the welfare reforms would be a pleasant change from some of the trolling going on!

Here's my shot... I'm an SNP member, but in the main agree with the general thrust of the reforms: We all know that incapacity benefit has been used and abused by both individuals and the state for too long. It keeps people off the unemployment figures and we've all seen the exposes of people that take the system for a ride.

But I have a few concerns: Firstly, I don't think that Purnell is the person to take this forward. He has the gravitas of a call centre manager and uses the same language (every time a Labour cabinet member parrots "proactive" I'm reminded how mediocre much of the current cabinet crop is). Too Blairite - I just don't think he can carry the Labour core vote with him on this one. I have niggles about the change of name for the benefit - tabloid headlines about "scrapping" incapacity benefit may play well down in middle england, but again are worrying and destablising to those that are genuinely too ill to work - and kind of dismisses them all as unworthy recipients of state aid. I also worry about the "work for welfare" elements - just uncomfortable with anything that implies forced labour - but maybe I should look further into the detail there...
106

,

23/07/2008 11:34:31
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107

MtnKat,

23/07/2008 11:35:07
Shall we get up a petition to SECURITY's mum to allow him access to his vid games. It appears she has confiscated them, most likely for bad behavior.
108

Christina, Aberdeen,

23/07/2008 11:35:16
I see the Hootsmon are spurting out their usual Brown-tongued pro Labour drivel and are attempting to claim that even if Labour holds on by just one vote it will be a massive defeat for Alex Salmond and the SNP.

It's a real shame to such what used to be such an excellent newspaper become the a shoddy gutter press tabloid which doesn't even bother to rewrite Labour press releases before publishing them.
109

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 11:35:21
#103 THAT was your idea of debating it? LMAO.
110

Scotfree,

Erskine 23/07/2008 11:35:58
The contrast between SNP and labour is not simply one of contrasting govornments but between:
Leadership and Avoidence
Competence and Corruption
Belief and Deceit
Popular Democracy and Globalist Conceit
Alex Salmond, too his credit has no problem in placing himself in the front line of this struggle, in contrast with Brown who prefers the company of billionaires, financiers, arms dealers and oil barrons to the ordinary people of the West End whom he no-doubt, (with his pseudo-accademic arrogance) he considers beneath him. As has been the case with his brieff reign he will probably skulk away for several weeks on news of defeat and blame everyone but himself).
The fresh air of the new govornment in Scotland has had a "honeymoon" from it's inception because it's competence has been in such contrast with labour corruption. Even this by election began with the labour leader in Scotland having to resign because of corruption, their first four candidates stood down because of pending corruption investigations and it is common knowledge that the previous incumbent resigned because of the theft of £500 000 of taxpayers money from expences scams.
The nationalists can bring in 1000+ volunteers in contrast to labour having to transport up no doubt paid assistants from England (your figures on labour support are a typical labour placemen type lie) because its movement is based on deeply held beliefs in Scotland and Scottish freedom whereas it is all too evedent that the labour party is driven by a desire to gain benefits for themselves through backhander rewards for betaying Scotlands interests.
Labour has held a stranglehold at every level of Scottish society for almost fifty years. Controlling govrment local national, much of the civil service, the unions and business, schools and universities and most importantly, the media with placemen and women in all these institutions each ready at appropriate notice to do labours beckonning. The SNP has grown from the people t
111

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:36:12
#106 Dane Bramage

Actually, they were all inappropriate. Your insults blunt your own argument.
112

brownlie,

23/07/2008 11:37:13
102 AM2

Touchy?? No thanks, I'd rather not!!!!
113

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 11:38:13
#111 "Rev" S Campbell

How much time do you expect me to devote to someone who thinks that providing mandatory work experience and tailored back-to-work programmes constitutes the establishment of - in your exact words - an "army of 4 million slave labourers"?
114

Scotfree,

Erskine 23/07/2008 11:38:27
(cont)
Labour has held a stranglehold at every level of Scottish society for almost fifty years. Controlling government local national, much of the civil service, the unions and business, schools and universities and most importantly, the media with placemen and women in all these institutions each ready at appropriate notice to do labours beckoning. The SNP has grown from the people themselves struggling as a popular democratic movement against this corporatist intrigue and has piece by piece unraveled labours stranglehold on Scotland. Their loss of the councils and Scottish government ends their stranglehold on state institutions and government contacts, the only major hold they retain is in media which is controlled by English or American companies and retains the history of labour placemen but even their days are numbered and their effectiveness is blunted by the impact of the web and ordinary peoples ability to find and communicate the truth to all and sundry.
115

,

23/07/2008 11:51:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
116

Hamish Scott,

23/07/2008 11:58:18
#21
Yes, two more examples today of the Scotsman's self-evident policy of politically motivated misleading headlines: the Curran headline and the parliament overspend one. The Scotsman knows that many readers only skip through the headlines looking for what interests them but in the process the subliminal message of the headlines strike home. And the day before one of the most important by-elections in Scottish political history there is no main article about the campaign itself and also, therefore, no comments thread where unionist mendacity can be directly challenged.
117

Hamish Scott,

23/07/2008 11:59:57
#118
If AM2 is going to be the good cop you'll have to be very bad.
118

,

23/07/2008 12:04:59
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119

The Good the Better and the Ugly,

The Forge 23/07/2008 12:06:44
41 Andy Stewart 105 Tyrone Shoulders

Check out oddpolitics.com , which has a few comments on the (recent) odds of a Labour or SNP victory
120

,

23/07/2008 12:07:12
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121

,

23/07/2008 12:08:38
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122

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:10:38
#108 Dane Bramage

To me, “unionism” and “nationalism” (once the –ism baggage is stripped away) are just two preferences. Both viewpoints have some merit. Neither is inherently superior to the other.

But on the SNP’s website, people like you and me, who disagree that Scotland should leave Britain, are described as “traitors”, “enemies of Scotland” and only “claiming to be Scottish”.

The SNP describe their perspective as “normal” and ours as “abnormal”. They are forever presenting our positions not as legitimate differences of opinion, but as deliberate falsifications of what they seem to believe to be objective truth.

So they don’t just disagree with us. They actually seem to think that we’re morally inferior. It boils down to “nationalists good, unionists bad”. Independence is seen as a democratic “right” and so we are anti-democratic. It’s all disturbingly Orwellian.

That’s at the root of the vilification of unionists which we see on these forums. That’s what underpins the constant stream of CyberNat insults and attempts to flame us out of the debate. To say that there is potential here for societal schism is, I fear, an understatement.

In my opinion, the most effective way to expose this tendency is simply to turn the other cheek, to decline to respond in kind. It throws their insults into sharp relief. But your willingness to respond in kind when goaded makes that impossible.
123

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:14:39
#117 Jackie Priest

You say you “regard England as foreign”, “resent England's interference with Scotland”, think that “anti-Englishness in Scotland… is proportionate to England's behavour towards Scotland” and that “anti-Englishness arises in Scotland through blatant provocation by the English media”. You muse: “the English wonder why they annoy the Scots so much?”

You have said that people who would prefer for Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom are “traitors”, “absurd people in every way”, that you “resent them immensely” and that they “disgust” you.

You have called me “truly anti-Scottish”, an “enemy of Scotland” and an “enemy of democracy”. You simply cannot understand that non-nationalists are just as passionate about seeing Scotland develop as you evidently are.

You have said that you consider that not voting SNP makes someone “less Scottish” than you. You have talked of Scotland being subject to the “corruption of [a] foreign culture”, meaning England.

You have spoken of feeling “abhorrence” for “a non-Scot who is insulting [your] country” – and by “insulting” all you actually mean is putting forward a perfectly cogent argument for the continuation of our membership of the UK.

Further, you say that “this [non-Scot] is bound to cause offence to people who are from that country”, obviously meaning ethnic or other Scots. You’re clearly very close to thinking of certain non-Scots as a fifth column!

Haven't you realised yet? Your incessant attacks on me, motivated only by your own zeal for independence, are entirely invalidated by your inability to suppress your own extremism.
124

,

23/07/2008 12:15:40
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125

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 12:19:45
#91 AM2

And what criteria did you use in your ranking?

Certainly, for interrupting and hectoring, Curran was top of the list. The consensus in my household (unionist and nationalist) was that she let herself down badly when trying the bully tactics on Mason. She was also marked down for being evasive under hard questioning. Result, Curran squeaks in just above the very poor Davena Rankin, but only just.

1. Ian Robertson
2. John Mason
3. Margaret Curran
4. Davena Rankin
126

Arfur,

23/07/2008 12:20:30
Free by '93 - you are a tool. not one of the posts that i seen that were removed were from an SNP supporter. All the ones i seen were unionist ejits just like yourself.

typical unionist, fibbing as always.
127

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23/07/2008 12:22:10
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23/07/2008 12:27:32
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 12:28:15
#125 AM2 states:

"The SNP describe their perspective as “normal” and ours as “abnormal”. They are forever presenting our positions not as legitimate differences of opinion, but as deliberate falsifications of what they seem to believe to be objective truth."

Sounds more like Browne and Cairns type of behaviour to me.
130

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:29:20
#129 Arfur

Re: "you are a tool" ... "typical unionist, fibbing as always"

Thank you for providing an example of what I was saying in #125.

131

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:30:22
#131 Tyrone

Actually, the list at #30 is of unionist posters.
132

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:32:50
#128 connaughtboy

Nothing scientific. John Mason seems nervous and unsure of himself. Margaret Curran is a self-assured woman. I don't think he likes that.
133

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 12:33:41
And then this from AM2:

"So they don’t just disagree with us. They actually seem to think that we’re morally inferior. It boils down to “nationalists good, unionists bad”. Independence is seen as a democratic “right” and so we are anti-democratic. It’s all disturbingly Orwellian."

Unbelievable gaffe AM2:

"Independence is seen as a democratic right"

Well, errr, are you saying that independence is NOT a democratic right. If true, then you truly are anti-democratic AM2. Now that really is Orwellian !
134

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 12:37:15
#135 AM2

It is pretty clear that Curran's nervousness is the cause of her erratic body movements and panicky responses. It shows in her eyes.

Not that this is a measure of a candidate's ability to be a good MP.

Curran has far too much baggage to be able to answer questions directly (10p tax, Iraq etc). Mason has no such issues and that allows him to answer directly and appear to be much more open.
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23/07/2008 12:37:24
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Free by '93,

23/07/2008 12:39:55
129 Arfur

That's lovely dear. Just grab your arm rests and the nice lady will be 'round with some tea and your meds in a mo.
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23/07/2008 12:40:45
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:40:50
#136 connaughtboy

No gaffe. You're beating a straw man.

Independence would be a democratic right if a majority wanted it.

But they don't. Active support for independence in preference to the various other broad options is running around the 20% to 25% mark.
139

Shave,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 12:42:07
I was impressed by the two candidates from the parties I love to hate - the Tories and the LibDems. They both made some cogent points.

Of course, part of their positive impression came from their ability to rise above the scrappy Lab/SNP debate (as they stand mo chance of winning).

I would have liked to hear from Dr. Eileen Duke. I think her omission from the line-up was a mistake, especially as the Greens have MSPs representing Glasgow.
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23/07/2008 12:44:09
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Shave,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 12:44:58
typo - #142 should read "(as they stand NO chance of winning)"
142

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:45:34
#142 Shave

Did you see Dr Duke on Newsnight? Most of the interview focused on the benefits changes. She was truly awful - umm, ah, long pauses, favourite word was "maybe", totally banal, mumbling, poor eye contact. I may never have seen worse.
143

Alan B,

23/07/2008 12:48:20
#AM2 I do not know how you can have a positive view of Margaret Curran. Every time i see her she is truely awful. She comes across far to in your face, all mouth and no brains. To be direct you really have to have some charm and she is devoid of it.
144

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:48:57
#145 Hawkeye

Are you trying to refute my argument? Because you're actually exemplifying it.

On the SNP's website, you will find the phrase "independence is normal".

You have said: "Do not assume that just because you are a unionist then unionism suddenly because valid or normal."

So, you are implying that unionism is invalid and abnormal.
145

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:51:34
147 Alan B

I wouldn't describe her as "charming".
146

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:52:50
#145 Hawkeye

Scotland was independent until 1707 and retains a strong national identity.

Bavaria was independent until 1871 and retains a strong national identity.
147

Shave,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 12:53:14
#146 AM2
No, I missed that. She had some good things to say when the campaign focus was on energy charges (about community-owned green energy in Easterhouse) but since I have heard nothing much from her.

I don't expect she has much experience in front of cameras. Shame really.
148

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 12:53:53
91

Have Rankin/Mason 3rd - not impressed by Mason at all.
To me, he strikes me s the kind of guy I'd expect to see as a councillor - nothing more.

In a way I feel sorry for the guy. Don't know why, he comes across as a nice guy. No understand why Curran hounded him on standing up to Salmond.

Too nice aguy. Don't think he'd make a good MP.

Rankin - pass.


104

The Independent ceased to be independent years ago. Sad, biased anti-Blair/anti-Bush left-wing poseur's rag, IMO. Like The Duardian.

149

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 12:55:12
91

Oops.


for "Not understand"

replace with "Now understand".
150

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 12:57:39
#143 Dane Bramage

I agree with a fair amount of what you say, but I don't see the direct relevance to the issues of nationalism (not a fringe version, the official SNP dogma) claiming to be inherently superior, and how to expose that. I suppose we'll have to agree to differ. At least you and I can have a strident disagreement without any risk of it turning to insults.
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 13:01:08
#154 Hawkeye

So do you think independence for nations/regions which have a strong sense of their own national unity is "normal"?

All of the following have secessionist movements:

• Åland (Finland)
• Alsace (France)
• Andalusia (Spain)
• Basque Country (Spain)
• Bavaria (Germany)
• Catalonia (Spain)
• Cornwall (Britain)
• Corsica (France)
• Faroes (Denmark)
• Flanders (Belgium)
• Friesland (Netherlands)
• Galicia (Spain)
• Greenland (Denmark)
• Lapland (Finland)
• Navarre (Spain)
• Padania (Italy)
• Sardinia (Italy)
• Salzburg (Austria)
• Savoy (France)
• Saxony (Germany)
• Scotland (Britain)
• Thuringia (Germany)
• Wales (Britain)
• Wallonia (Belgium).

Do you think they should all be "normal", i.e. independent?
152

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 13:02:04
Lunch etc. Later.
153

CLX,

WayUpNorth 23/07/2008 13:03:26
Following on from yesterdays link to the Edinburgh Dungeon prank, here is an update to the story inspired by the granny state......
Anti English.....Naaaaaah

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Police-quiz-Dungeon-bosses-over.4315420.jp
154

Alan B,

23/07/2008 13:04:15
#AM2

I do not know why you have a problem with the snp web site apparently saying the independence is "normal".

The fact that they are saying that shows to a large extent the way independence has been demonised by certain unionist supporters.

The whole use the term "separatist" not independence is to try to convey negative conitations. How many times have posters (and yes may be the odd balls) talk about the snp as a weird cult. There has also been the unionists that try to paint nationalists as nazis.

As such it is not surprising that the snp will try to sell independence for scotland as "normal" and the constitutional setup most countries adhere to.

Even look at the labour portrayal in this elections as the snp candidate being hardline or the tv interviewer continually using the term hardline. The whole emphasis is the snp are wanting some hardline position and not what is normal.
155

AJ Fife,

23/07/2008 13:06:43
Arch-unionist Team AM2 are at it again, but this current one, on the day shift, seems to be different from his other cohorts. He/she/it appears to be warming to the SNP cause:- "Their separist policy is perfectly legitimate"!

Would the earlier versions of AM2 have used this type of language(including the spelling mistook)? I doubt it......
156

European Scot,

23/07/2008 13:06:58
152

" The Independent ceased to be independent years ago. Sad, biased anti-Blair/anti-Bush left-wing poseur's rag, IMO. Like The Duardian."

If the Independent is anti- Blair / anti Bush, that sounds reasonably healthy.
A left wing poseurs rag ?
In contrast to your true blue Torygraph !
How does it feel being a member of a rare species in Scotland ?
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23/07/2008 13:11:01
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AJ Fife,

23/07/2008 13:22:50
#170,

Good observation. It does become more and more apparent, the more excited they get. Team AM2 should brush up their act pronto!
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European Scot,

23/07/2008 13:31:48
156 AM2

Oh dear still on the Nations, versus Regions kick.
Following on from the comments earlier in the week about not having countries within countries, the exact definitions of what constitutes a Country, and a Nation, leaves the following.

England, Scotland, and Wales, are not by definition countries.
Surprisingly the 'UK', or 'Great Britain,' is by definition a country.
England, Scotland and Wales are Nations.
The 'UK', or 'Great Britain' is not a Nation.

To be a country you must meet a set of criteria, amongst which are having control of your own economy, having control over your borders, and having control of your own defence.

I repeat, you cannot have a country within a country.

Try these two sites :-

http://geography.about.com/cs/politicalgeog/a/statenation.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/nation

An Independent Scotland would be both Country and Nation.

By the way, on the one remaining site where we can comment about the Glasgow East by-election, you wouldn't be trying to distract us would you ?!
Off to lunch.
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23/07/2008 13:44:31
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Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 13:58:55
163

You have guessed wrong. I'm not a Tory.
As the monniker says, I'm Scotish 'N British.
166

Upandunder,

23/07/2008 13:59:06
I fear for an independent Scotland. Two main rivals would be SNP and a revamped Scottish Labour party. In other words, two backward parties in the grip of out-dated leftie dreamers who think the state owes people a living and those who actually work for a living should be punished in the pocket to feed the benefit-claimants' insatiable thirst for alcohol, tobacco, satellite subscriptions, designer-label tracksuits, McDonald's and lottery tickets.

If, however, Scotland had the political equivalent of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael - centre- and right-leaning parties - I would be far more optimistic.

It's just the same in Wales - free prescriptions, free this, free that. No wonder so much has lost its value.
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Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 23/07/2008 14:01:18

#173, Dane Bramage,

I have no idea if Hawkeye's claim of your use of multiple monikers is true or not. Presumably the Hootsmon will know this and perhaps, if they are technically able, they should prevent it?

What I do know, however, is that the only numpty caught out doing this was a unionist troll -

Highland Mighty aka British Pride - CAUGHT!


British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???


I presume he meant to finish off with "cyber-nat" but was getting a tad flustered, hence the mistake.

Can we get back to commenting on the blog article now?
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 14:09:29
#115 So now we know that your idea of "intelligent debate" is "I've been proved utterly wrong, with official UK government sources given for all statistics, about every single thing I claimed, so I'm running away crying and sticking to nice safe trolling on other topics instead". LOL.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/13774/Glasgow-East-byelection-Labour-is.4309936.jp#comments

Posts #289-302, folks. Bring popcorn. But don't feed the TROLLS.
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Alan B,

23/07/2008 14:10:04
#Upandunder

While i understand where you are coming from, i think it is only through independence that we would get the realignment of political parties that you wish to see.

The snp are really a coalition of a broadspectrum of leftish/rightish views with the binding factor of supporting independence. Labour it hard to see what they really stand for or would. they have been dragged to the right by blair and brown has continued in that way. What would happen to a more independent scottish labour party. Would it drift back to the left.

In truth it would really depend on the voters rathter than just the parties. The tories became unelectable in scotland because of the thatcher yrs. If scotland had got the labour party then that it was voting for in an indepdent scotland then they would have soon have been voted out.

Part of the problem is people vote labour in scotland no matter what. But that is really due to the 2 horse race nature of westminster and scotland seeing the tory party as unelectable.

In an independent scotland the consitutional argument will be dead and as such you will end up with a more left right party options. With pr supporting more parties then people will have more options.
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23/07/2008 14:13:43
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Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 14:22:03
181

Correct, a damning indictment.

SNP - single issue party - Ian Robertson, SNP candidate for Glasgow East.
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23/07/2008 14:22:33
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 14:34:52
#141 AM2

That was no straw man.

In your criticism of the Nationalists you stated:

"Independence is seen as a democratic “right”" [by Nationalists].

You clearly disagree with this view.




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23/07/2008 14:35:22
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Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 14:35:34
185

Mmmm, now I'm puzzled.

I thought I was "sm753" and you were "AM2"? Or is that only on Mondays and Wednesdays?



176

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 23/07/2008 14:37:47
Eh, getting back to the article - Ross Lydall comments:

"And what of the candidates? The SNP's John Mason sounded good - his voice resonates well on TV - and made a decent stab of sticking to his guns. Labour's Margaret Curran, by contrast, was more shrill, and may be possibly be tiring from what has been a hectic pace of campaign."

I think he makes a good point here. Curran looked pretty shattered and even a bit grey about the gills. Even this short campaign seems to have sapped all her energy. What could be causing this?

If, as NuLabour would have us all believe, that they are going to easily hold this Seat, then she should be upbeat and now coasting in, as the Champion Elect, to the finishing line. In such a strong position she would feel strong and have all the euphoria of victory about her and have, as all sportsmen and women do, plenty of energy left for the lap of honour.

It's psychological. Stuck on the losing side in the second half at say, rugby, and you feel ten times worse and more fatigued than you actually are - BUT if you're on the winning side, having worked just as hard, at the same stage you feel...tired, yes, but upbeat and still full on beans.

I've been reading many claims and counter claims of canvassing returns from activists on both sides. I think that Curran's overall demeanour last night spoke volumes. I now think that the SNP will win this Seat and (I'll stick my neck out here) with a majority of about 800 to 1000. Feel those butterfly wings flap!
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 14:38:19
#148 AM2

Let's face it. Out of all the 200 countries in the world, independence is the "norm"
178

Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 14:41:31
187

It's Time

for the SNP, even at this late stage, to stop talking down Glasgow East.



179

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 23/07/2008 14:45:35


#191, Scottish 'N British,

"IT'S TIME"


Indeed it is. Are you aware that you are shouting forth an SNP campaign slogan? Arf!

Perhaps the Scottish half is winning out?
There is hope for for all.


IT'S TIME - FOR AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND.




180

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 23/07/2008 14:47:36
#181 I totally disagree with you. Upon winning Glasgow East, John Mason will make a far bigger impact than his predecessor, simply by being willing to fight their cause at Westminster.
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23/07/2008 14:58:03
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23/07/2008 15:15:07
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23/07/2008 15:22:47
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John S,

23/07/2008 15:44:09
Is this age divide as shown in the June 2008 TNS poll a guide to Scottish independence in the future and will this age divide happen in the Glasgow East by-election ?
This poll shows an age related divide on independence between below the age of 54 and above the age of 55. In each of the four groups (18-54) the majority said I agree and above the age of 55 in each of the two groups (55-65+) the majority said I disagree.Peak group for the I agree was the 35-44 with 49% and I disagree 65+ with 55%.
The poll result was I agree 39% and I disagree 41%.
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Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 15:45:34
hehe

Angus Robertson hates Westminster so much yet he willingly trawls its corridors .
187

jacquesmac,

23/07/2008 15:46:07
test
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23/07/2008 15:48:05
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Scottish 'N British,

23/07/2008 16:16:26
201

Aah, Roberston's the Keeper Of The Crown Jewels!! I did wonder what he did down there!! Wonder if he bowed as far as Shirrr Shhean did when he met Her Majesty.

190

LEAL,

23/07/2008 17:05:13
1 Jimmy the pie

The Screaming Harridan and the Disgraced Alexander(wendy) arent best buddies.Still, youd think they could put their differences behind them in Labours hour of need.
191

izzie,

dundee 23/07/2008 17:53:32
#197 well what would you expect from the red Tories - come on Glasgow East one small step for man one giant leap for Scotland.
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 20:11:16
#154 Hawkeye the Noo:

You said: “Britain is a false nation and a false identity that the majority of Scots reject.”

Nonsense. You’re saying that because you don’t understand the nuances of Scottish/British identity. The vast majority of people in Scotland (all but around 24%) regard their national identity as incorporating an element of Britishness.

You said: “Do you speak Welsh, sir? No. Then you are not British.”

That’s just bizarre. Britons, in the contemporary sense – not Brythons.

You said: “Unionism is abnormal”.

Why? Because only a minority of nations were formed by amalgamation rather than fragmentation?

If that’s your yardstick, are you consistent about it?

Are homosexual people “abnormal”? Something like 3% or 4% of people are gay.

Are Jews abnormal? Only about 2% of people are Jewish.

Admit it: you weren’t using the word “abnormal” simply because political unions of various kinds are less common than nations formed in other ways. You were using it as a rhetorical device – and a very unpleasant one at that.
193

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 20:16:19
#172 European Scot

You said: "you cannot have a country within a country."

You cited answers.com (a wiki) and about.com (user editos) as backup for that position. Perhaps I can help with a few more trustworthy sources.


country (noun) a state or nation; the territory of a nation; a tract of land considered apart from any geographical or political limits; region; district.
– Dictionary.com Unabridged

country (noun) a nation or state; the territory of a nation or state.
– American Heritage Dictionary

country (noun) a politically organized body of people under a single government; the territory occupied by a nation.
– Princeton Wordnet

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=country


“The United Kingdom is a country composed of the constituent countries of England, Scotland and Wales on the island of Great Britain, and Northern Ireland on the island of Ireland.”
http://www.vcarious.com/Travel-Guide/UnitedKingdom.html

“Countries within a country: The United Kingdom is made up of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”
http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page823.asp

“Britain: Officially the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ... Parliament governs the country.”
“Scotland: One of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”
http://www.bartleby.com/59/15/britain.html
http://www.bartleby.com/59/15/scotland.html
194

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 20:16:42
editos = editors

Back later.
195

Brian M,

Edinburgh 23/07/2008 20:36:05
With devolution 'Parliament' does not really govern the supposed country of UK/GB/whatever.

Anyway, if Scotland secedes from this 'country' that will still leave more than one country for the unionists to claim a union, bless their litle cotton pickin' souls
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:20:43
#214 Hawkeye

Re: "You are not Scottish so I cannot expect you to."

Unbelievable. Who are you to tell me I'm not Scottish?
202

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:21:33
#214 Hawkeye

You said: "you refuse to acknowledge that Scotland is a nation in its own right"

Where did you get that from? Scotland is of course a nation.
203

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:22:20
#214 Hawkeye

You said: “No other situation like it exists in Europe”

Not true. Spain was formed by a process of incorporating unions throughout the 11th to 16th centures. Italian unification in the C19th. The annexation of Brittany to France in 1532 and Wales to England a few years later. Serbia with Montenegro in 1918. The unification of Germany in 1871. etc.
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AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:23:13
#210 SIV

If you're pasting text from the Herald, is it possible that you breached copyright?
205

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:24:52
#211 #212 SIV

Do you seriously aspire to be like Estonia?

GDP PER CAPITA:

Scotland (2005) – $33,460
Estonia (2005) – $15,478

AVERAGE GROSS MONTHLY PAY:

Scotland (2006) – $2941
Estonia (2006) – $1026

PERCENTAGE LIVING ON LESS THAN $2 PER DAY

Scotland (2007) – 0.0%
Estonia (2007) – 7.5%

LIFE EXPECTANCY AT BIRTH

Scotland (2006) – 77.1 years
Estonia (2006) – 67.4 years
206

AM2,

Scotland,UK 23/07/2008 22:26:55
#209 SIV

You said: "Do you admit that you have been economical with the truth in pursuit of your arguments?"

No, I certainly do not! I always take as much care as possible to avoid posting anything that isn't verifiably true.

If you want sources for the Estonia and Scotland stats, just ask.
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 22:46:01
#221 And what's the average rent in Estonia? How much is a pint of milk? How much for a new car?
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Rufus T. Firefly,

23/07/2008 22:47:52
Davena was just on.

Once again wittering on about 5p off a litre of petrol.

Does she ever talk about anything else?
209

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 22:48:16
"LIFE EXPECTANCY AT BIRTH
Estonia (2006) – 67.4 years"

Lots of people in Labour-controlled parts of Scotland would be envious of that...
210

Rufus T. Firefly,

23/07/2008 22:50:40
Current odds are

Labour 2/7
SNP 9/4

Looks like it will be a whitewash.

SNP have no chance.
211

Rufus T. Firefly,

23/07/2008 22:52:51
#225 If these same people decide to spend their day smoking and drinking and getting no exercise then there is nothing that any political party can do about it.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

23/07/2008 23:19:55
#229 Badmouthing??

No just telling the truth!
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Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 23/07/2008 23:22:37
AM2

In reply to 214. Hawkeye is right.

The UK is like no other union of states and never will be again.

A union of two countries, a principality of one of those countries (without a mention on the national flag) and a state partitioned by Britain.

It is interesting to see the continuing move to smaller countries, more accountable to the people they serve, across the length and breadth of Europe. That trend is not now just reserved for the poorer eastern states. It seems that it is heading for the capital of Europe itself.

Your 13:01pm list of principalities and regions does not equate with two nation states joining in Union, and therefore able to determine if that Union should end. Both england and Scotland (with or without devolution,) have their own legal and education systems, and for the majority of sporting events, have their own national teams. Your analogy is flawed. Even Flanders and Wallonia, likely to split anytime soon, have nothing like the individual status of Scotland or England.
214

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 23/07/2008 23:40:13
#226 A whitewash? What, you think the SNP will get 0 votes? Or do you mean Labour are going to fiddle the count and then cover it up like with all their other crimes?

Typical illiterate Labour stooge.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

23/07/2008 23:42:37
#232 You sound like a defeated man. The only chance of a political earthquake tomorrow would be if Salmond went jogging around Glasgow East.

Then again, that would be an unpardonable folly.
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23/07/2008 23:43:06
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Scottish 'N British,

24/07/2008 10:34:40
233

"unpardonable folly" - Salmond on sending Brityih troops to save Kosovo.
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Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 24/07/2008 17:51:44
Mysteriously, Wednesday's "Good Morning Extra" still isn't available on the BBC iPlayer. Monday's, Tuesday's and this morning's are all there. Looks like John Mason must have put in a good performance.

 

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