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Protest cards to be given to drivers over bus pram ban

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Published Date: 18 August 2008
CAMPAIGNERS will be handing out protest cards to Lothian Buses drivers in their attempt to overturn the controversial ban on prams.
They are protesting against the company's policy of refusing to allow parents on board with prams or buggies that cannot be folded.

Disability campaigners have also criticised Lothian Buses' inflexibility, saying there is no reason mothers with p
rams cannot use the disabled space if it is vacant.

And they also hit out at the company's refusal to carry a mother with a disabled baby daughter in a pram, as reported in last week's Evening News.

Caroline Docherty was stunned when she was told she couldn't get on several buses with her five-month-old baby Sophie, who has brain damage and requires a special pram.

However, she said she has now been offered a special badge to show to drivers.

The mum-of-two said: "I'm just relieved I'll be able to get on the bus again.

"I phoned them up and they said they'd send one out to me to show drivers. I think every mother who asks for one now will get one if they phone up."

Lothian Buses began enforcing the ban on non-folding prams in June, which they say is in line with the Disability Discrimination Act.

They have issued drivers with guidance as to what types of prams and buggies should be refused.

But councillors, parents and campaigners are calling on the company to back down and show some "common sense". They say that most parents are happy to vacate the space if it is needed by a wheelchair user.

Kate Joester, a mother-of-two from Lower Granton Road, has designed the cards. She has won the support of dozens of parents.

She said: "I'd like people to hand one to the driver of every bus they get on, saying they object to this policy whether they push a buggy or not.

"We don't want to behave in a hostile way to drivers or hold anyone up, but we just want to make it clear how many people, their customers, think this is outrageous. It's so intimidating waiting for a bus, and not knowing whether you'll be allowed on.

"What are you supposed to do if you've got a six-week-old baby who can't go in a foldable buggy? It's not possible to carry your baby all the time.

"It can be very hard for mothers with young children to get around as it is. The last thing Lothian Buses should be doing is alienating so many passengers.

"Most parents are happy to get off a bus if a wheelchair users needs the space."

Nikki McIntosh Lewis, a mother-of-two, has helped set up a Facebook group with nearly 150 members who oppose the ban. She is also organising a petition.

She said: "I would definitely support this. I think handing out cards is a good way for people to show Lothian Buses what they think."

Mothers are also planning a delegation to go and confront managers at Lothian Buses. They have won the support of Malcolm Chisholm, the MSP for Edinburgh North and Leith.

No one from Lothian Buses was available for comment.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 August 2008 1:41 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Richard Head,

The Royal Ed (Locked Ward) 18/08/2008 12:05:17
Non-folding prams are a total pain on the buses.
Come to think of it, the folding ones always bring a sigh from me 'n all.
2

allknowing,

18/08/2008 12:11:36
Lothian buses and commonsense doesnt quite go hand in hand.

Lets hope Sophie can now get to her hospital appointments on time, without being cancelled. Lets also hope her mum doesnt miss a bus because it turns up too ealy, or late, it breaks down etc.
3

Darren :-),

18/08/2008 12:13:28
last week i got on a #44 and a #30 - both buses, had non fold up prams, in the wheel chair slots. Wheelchair user tried to get on - person with buggy wouldnt move. So its been enforced on some buses but not others. time it was enforced on all buses or none atall. Im for the rule, others are against it - but what i dont understand is what did they used to do, prior to 1998, when it was only buses with steps in them. they couldnt bump them up now, could they?
4

Niko Bellic,

Sing Sing 18/08/2008 12:14:57

This is a stupid idea. Why hand protest cards to the driver when the pram ban isn't his idea?

The driver's job is to drive a bus, not accept protest cards from irate wifeys whose anger has been stirred up reading stories like this one.
5

Sarcasm,

18/08/2008 12:15:55
Show pramism the red card, if you can get on.
6

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 12:18:12
"Wheelchair user tried to get on - person with buggy wouldnt move."

So what? The person with the buggy was there FIRST. Tough. Life is hard. Why should someone take priority over all others because they are disabled? It just doesn't make sense.

Bring back the Routemasters.

#4:

Good point. Take your protest to the offices of Lothian Buses. The drivers only do what they are told to do.
7

Bob 2,

18/08/2008 12:20:27
High Octane

Spot On - Take your protest to the offices of Lothian Buses. The drivers only do what they are told to do.

This is a management mess.
8

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 12:22:07
My problem with this is it creates a scene and is embarrassing for wheelchair users.

I know from travelling with a family member who is a wheelchair user the scene that ensuses when a mother has to unexpectatnly collect her things together and get off the bus becuase a wheelchair user want to come on.

Folding prams are not an issue becuause they can get out of the way, other wheelchairs mean the bus is full same way the bus can be full for non-disabled people.

The mother with a disabled child is different again becuase allowing her access is a reasonable adjustment under the DDA.

The idea that it ok becuase disabled people don't mind is only true to a point. I think the buses policy is a sensible middle ground that prevents the social embarassment so many wheelchair users currently endure.
9

wee linda,

Broxburn 18/08/2008 12:22:46
When I was in Australia 25 years ago you had to hang your buggie on hooks on the back of the bus! You took the baby on baord with you of course!!
10

Darren :-),

18/08/2008 12:23:05
#6 - wheelchair contains person who cant walk, buggy contains small person who is light enough to be carried - simple
11

,

18/08/2008 12:24:25
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

alex paterson,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 12:27:49
Pure laziness,if the pram has wheels then push it,you will be surprised how easy it is and good exercise.
13

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 12:38:21
#11 A week in a wheelchair, having to cope with kerbs, badly maintained pavements and illegally parked cars would at least give you an idea of the problems disabled people have to endure. It would certainly give you more exercise than in your 4x4
14

allknowing,

18/08/2008 12:52:41
#11 either diabaled people want to be equal to everyone else, or they want special treatment. You cant be both!!!Disabled people time is no precious than anyone's else. And what ym 4x4 has got to do with anything in beyond me, just another moronic comment
15

PaulB,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 12:56:36
Don't you think bus drivers in Edinburgh are busy and stressed enough as it is, without beng red-carded? It's their bosses who make the rules, so cards should be directed to them. Give the drivers a break. If I was a driver I would tell people where to stick them!
16

alex patersons English teacher,

18/08/2008 13:01:24
diabaled people.
Hay, do you phone them.

if i find anyone's else ill let them know.

"And what ym 4x4 has got to do with anything in beyond me"
that tasty 4x4 just cant play the off side rule can it.

its fool time now.

17

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 13:04:46
15 - If disabled people were to be treated equally then every seat on the bus would be accessible. It isn't they are limited to a few and more often than not find them used by people who could choose another seat by folding the pram and carrying their child.

18

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 13:06:54
Darren, the Disability Discrimination Act means just that. You are not allowed to discriminate against disabled people (which is quite right).

It does not mean that you have to give them priority over other, able-bodied people.

Glibly saying that a child "is light enough to be carried" shows a lack of thought. Maybe you have never been in the situation where you have a kid asleep in a buggy, and loads of shopping bags hanging from the thing as well. Collapsing the buggy under those circumstances would be far from easy---and it would involve waking the kid up, who would likely as not start bawling.

No. the wheelchair user can wait for the next bus---as the person with the buggy would have to if the wheelchair was already on the bus.
19

thehitmaster,

Penicuik 18/08/2008 13:10:12
You really could not make this stuff up, the Evening News - yes NEWS! What is news about this! And if folk are daft enough to actually cut the protest card thing out of the paper and hand it to the driver then your missing the point.. The drivers are just doing a job, if you want to petition, moan, hand daft EN cards over then do so to the management. Personally I want a driver who's no1 priority is driving the bus safely..
20

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 13:14:11
#18:

"If disabled people were to be treated equally then every seat on the bus would be accessible."

No it wouldn't. What proportion of the population are wheel-chair bound? If anything, having one disabled space on every bus is over-representing them, although for obvious reasons it wouldn't be practical to have otherwise.

Anyway, it's not just for disabled people. Look at the sign on the window when you are next on a bus. It says that the area is for elderly and infirm as well. Would you like to hazard a guess at what might be the next step if this madness is to continue? They will be asking senior citizens to move along next.
21

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

18/08/2008 13:17:11
Hey Kate. Good to see you're still active. I hope you'll make arrangements to recycle the cards?

It's an interesting idea though, since it cuts down on the potential for conflict. Perhaps I'll design one to hand out to feckless parents whose kids run screaming around restaurants or kick the back of seats on buses, trains and airplanes.

Previously my tactic of looking the little hellspawn straight in the eye and saying "If you do that again, I'm going to eat you" has been known to cause their idiot parents to start an argument.

All suggestions of a design are welcome. I was thinking of a stylised kid with a red "X" through it, but that could be misinterpreted.
22

,

18/08/2008 13:33:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
23

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 13:43:29
21 - I said accessible, not reserved for disabled people.

Try to understand the difference.
24

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 13:52:44
#24:

What? You mean "accessible, not reserved" in the same way that the existing spaces are on buses?

You are perfectly entitled to sit or stand in the wheelchair area if you so wish. The area is however, ACCESSIBLE for wheelchair users. Someone in a wheelchair has no more right to it than anyone else.

What if the bus is full and people are standing in that area? What happens when someone wants to get on the bus in a wheelchair? Does that mean that half a dozen people have to get off to let them on? Tell you what, I'm damn sure that I wouldn't be up for that!
25

alex patersons English teacher,

18/08/2008 13:53:11
23
your right, im looking at things from the bottom up.

you have your cuase too fight, i have mine.

its a right deabacle isnt it.

26

tomias,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 13:58:51
What about non aged/disabled persons not able to sit on the indicated seats? And those with feet up on the seats adding to the repair of seat covering?
Many on buses are rude and inconsiderate; politeness is far gone.
AND in case any of you use buses,driver politeness and consideration has become the norm.
27

Linmal,

Livingston 18/08/2008 14:04:08
I have every sympathy with all bus users, not just disabled and mothers with small children.

I use the bus on a daily basis to get to and from work.

If people were more helpful to one another and less confrontational then there wouldn't be a problem here in the first place. And as for disabled people, being disabled doesn't make them nice people. A few years ago I went to try and help a "gentleman" in a motorised wheelchair who was obviously having difficulty trying to get across a busy main road. The torrent of abuse that came out of that man's mouth was quite disgusting and that was me trying to help. You can be sure I won't go out of my way to help someone like that again! Shame really as most people will probably be ok but it kind of puts you off being nice to people really.

I always offer my seat to someone less able bodied than myself but it isn't always received with gratitude. Whatever happened to please and thank you? Try it folks, you will find it works wonders and stop with the protests.

There seems to be a protest about everything and anything these days. The world does not owe you a living or anything else so get a life and get on with it!

And yes, it should be first come first served. I wouldn't expect someone to get off the bus so that I could get on so why should anyone else expect it, disabled or otherwise? I'm sorry for people who find it difficult to get around but this is Edinburgh and you will get on a bus fairly easily. Also why not use a bit of common sense and travel during less busy periods. Hardly rocket science is it!
28

Paola,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 14:05:20
Great comment #23. I am a full time working Mum and rely on the bus (previously with buggy and all) and it was a case of first come first served, and I have gladly given up the space and struggled with folding the buggy etc for disabled passengers, why? Because it it common courtesy, this is PUBLIC Transport that we all have a right to use and pay for. #22 I think you should think about your comments, if you were to make a remark like that to my daughter you would be faced with the Wrath of me and the police very quickly after!!
29

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 14:05:28
#27:

"What about non aged/disabled persons not able to sit on the indicated seats?"

Anyone is allowed to sit there. The sign says something to the effect of "Please give up this seat if someone elderly/infirm wants to use it".
30

Linmal,

Livingston 18/08/2008 14:10:25
By getting on a bus easily I meant that you will not have to wait very long for the next one. Lothian Buses have not won awards for nothing.

Think yourselves lucky you don't have to rely on any of the other bus companies. I have to travel by Firstbus and that is a misnomer if ever there was one!
31

,

18/08/2008 14:17:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
32

Gilly,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 14:19:10
I have three children and the eldest who is 20 i can remember when Lothian buses did not have a space for buggy to be and you either had to walk or carry the baby in a sling or buy a foldable pram which a child can use from 5 months onwards, yes it was a pain but you hoped there would be a willing helper who helped you on a off the bus and there usually was. I have been using lothian buses recently and they are still letting mothers and carers with prams on?!! so its up to the drivers discretion and yes if someone with a wheelchair requires access then the pram should either be folded or asked to make way for the wheelchair user.I have never had a car and not having one has ever been a barrier for me taking my children anywhere on public transport be it bus or train. I do think that Lothian buses should look at customer care as some of their drivers are downright rude!! and very unfriendly can i say this is the minority.
33

allknowing,

18/08/2008 14:20:25
" remark like that to my daughter you would be faced with the Wrath of me and the police very quickly after!!"

The police!!!! "Officer, this man said he would eat my child". Police officer,"move along now, nothign to see, heres a fine for wasting police time".

It amazing that so called adults run to the police for any small thing. Its not school anymore folks.
34

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

18/08/2008 14:24:52
#29 Paola offers: "if you were to make a remark like that to my daughter you would be faced with the Wrath of me and the police very quickly after!!"

As I said, this often causes arguments with the idiot parents who can't control their hellions. I'm used to it. As for the police, what do you imagine they'd charge me with? Imaginary cannibalism?
35

YummyMummy,

18/08/2008 14:31:00
#34

Never thought i would agree with you, but i do about this post. What are the police going to do?
36

Linmal,

Livingston 18/08/2008 14:34:27
#32 I find your last remark insulting - I only suggested that maybe if you particularly wanted to use the bus using it off peak would give you a better chance of getting on - why would anyone want to stand for ages at a bus stop with no hope of getting on a bus? That's what would happen in a first come first served basis which is only fair.

Just one comment here. Life is not fair. Some people have more than others but I have always taught my family that if you want something badly enough then work for it - easy! What is wrong with most people who gripe about things is they are jealous of others, simple as that.

I have every sympathy for wheelchair users but there are specialist bus companies who can accommodate wheelchairs, certainly in West Lothian, so I presume it is the same in Edinburgh. I had a friend many years ago who worked at Simon Square Centre and she had a bus which picked her up and took her home every day so no need to use public transport apart from outwith working hours.
37

YummyMummy,

18/08/2008 14:37:32
High Octane has came out with some good comments too. I'm being swayed by the 'disabled people should be on par with disabled people' thing, however, i would still give up the space for a wheelchair user because if i didn't, i would feel awful.

And why are so many people going pre-1998? it was TEN YEARS ago! Alot of things have changed since then, including peoples attitudes to help one another. What about parents who have had multipul births? Is she supposed to board a bus with a double buggy (folded, obviously!) 2 or more babies, changing bag and change for the bus?
38

Linmal,

Livingston 18/08/2008 14:44:51
#38 No but perhaps if such a mother had a smile on her face, asked for help and didn't spend her time on her mobile phone while her children were screaming their heads off people would have a bit more empathy with her!
39

YummyMummy,

18/08/2008 14:47:27
#39

If she is holding more than one child, say, 2 3month old babies.. how is she holding a mobile phone?
40

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 14:50:21
37 - So if you are a wheelchair user and you want a 9-5 job get the 'special' bus. You are right, segregation always works.
41

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

18/08/2008 14:58:01
"If she is holding more than one child, say, 2 3month old babies.. how is she holding a mobile phone?"

She could have those hands-free bluetooth babies.
42

smoochy,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 15:02:21
I WAS ON A NUMBER 3 BUS ON SATURDAY AND THERE WAS A BUGGY IN THE WHEELCHAIR SPACE SOMEONE TRYED TO GET ON WITH A WHEELCHAIR AND THE DRIVER TOLD HIM SORRY THERE WAS A BUGGY ON THE MOTHER SHOULD HAVE TOOK THE CHILD OUT OF THE BUGGY AS THE KID WAS ABOUT 1 YEAR OLD I THINK THE DRIVERS JUST DO WHAT THEY WANT.
43

Darren :-),

18/08/2008 15:14:48
#32 - what about disabled people who work? Being disabled does not mean you cant work! many people without legs or such can still work
44

YummyMummy,

18/08/2008 15:21:19
#42

Could well be, but thats not the point i am trying to make here lol
45

big man,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 15:33:27
#43(Smoochy) Have got to laugh at people like you, we dont just do things to please ourselves, we try to do a difficult job, maybe people like you should come and try to be a bus driver and from our side of the coin you will see what it all entails, whilst i understand the plight of mothers with young kids and with all the new types of buggies (was once a parent myself)iv'e not had many who, when asked if they would vacate the space for a wheelchair user object, but if they do i will cross that bridge when i come to it,but for someone who wants to hand cards to a driver ! am afraid to say thats not on, we have enough to cope with in the city just now, give us a break, it's bad enough getting moaned, shouted, verbally abused when the bus is running late SO GIVE US A BREAK PLEASE...
46

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 15:39:12
45 - i think you may have missed the intended sarcasm
47

Darren :-),

18/08/2008 16:00:51
#49 i read it as if you were saying they are all on benefits sitting nice and cosey on the dole :) sorry if i miss read it
48

j fortitude ,

18/08/2008 16:08:36
It was directed at #37
49

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

18/08/2008 16:08:53
Quite right number 48. If I were the bus drivers, I'd get cards made that said "Please Do Not Hand Cards to the Bus Driver While He is Driving" and hand them out when they get handed a card.
50

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

18/08/2008 16:10:58
53. Mind, if the bus driver is a woman, they'll need a card that says "...While She is Driving".
51

Linmal,

Livingston 18/08/2008 16:24:06
#41 What is wrong with a special bus if it is specially adapted to take wheelchairs? Surely this would make life easier to cope with.

And no, I don't believe in segregation. I boycotted South African goods when there was apartheid and I would never condone such actions, but you can't have your cake and eat it.

The fact is it is not easy for disabled people to get on and off buses and if something more suitable is available why not use it? I agree you should also be able to use the bus, but my point is this, to both disabled and parents with children, smile, say please and thank you and you will be amazed at how much easier your life will become!

Also for parents with young children, what is wrong with having your child on your knee and actually talking to him or her? I see it so often when a parent gets on with a buggy the buggy is positioned with the back facing the parent and they talk on a mobile phone for the entire journey or to someone else travelling with them.

And why do you think you have special rights over other people anyway. Did we choose to have your children? No, you did. I have two children of my own and never did I think anything was my God given right. I was taught when growing up to have consideration for other people and to put myself last but in today's society it seems the reverse is true and that is why we are in the mess we are in.

By the way, you are all so easy to wind up - it used to be fun but now it is just getting boring.

Get a life, think about others and maybe, just maybe, you will find out that travelling by bus can be a pleasant experience.
52

James (1),

18/08/2008 16:25:55
#50 Who is Miss Read? Is she the woman who started all this by not moving?
53

James (1),

18/08/2008 16:28:23
#15 you can have it both ways, as any minority group will tell you.
54

smoochy,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 16:36:47
#33 I totally agree with you if a wheelchair comes on the buggy should be folded .
55

Grumpy,

18/08/2008 16:44:43
(14) has it in one - don't blame the drivers - they are only doing what their bosses have told them under the threat that if they don't, they get the sack.

It's the bosses that should get all the cards handed to them - or even better - plaster their car windows with the leaflets - after all, the bosses don't actually get Lothian Bus to get to work, since they get free parking spaces....
56

smoochy,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 16:45:00
#48 I agree your job is hard enough but your management cant say one thing and the drivers do another just like i have been on buses and the drivers have fag in the cabin when at a terminal if passengers cant do it what gives the drivers a right to(just because your jobs hard enough).
57

missy k,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 16:59:23
i pay full bus fares, i pay my taxes, yet i cant get on a bus with my son in his pram ! ! ! so next what will it be, no young person under 16yrs of age after a certain time at night, no ethnic coloured people incase they are terrosists. please ! !! the amount of people with pushchairs out numbers the amount of people in wheelchairs, first come,first served as they say...
58

Mad Jock,

East Lothian 18/08/2008 17:00:26
If a disabled person wants to be a Fireman, is he or she entitled to an opportunity?
The point I am making is that you make as many equal opportunity laws as you like, but some of us are not equal to the task or situation. With rare cases like Douglas Bader the exception rather than the rule, disabled people are at risk of being demonised because of a militant few. (Where have we heard that before?)
In general, there seem to be few disabled people who have a "why me?" attitude, and are quite happy to get on with life as best they can. There are government schemes and grants to help people of varying disabilities, including motability schemes where the cost of a car is heavily subsidised. I have no idea, but do taxis have special rates for disabled people?
What do these parents do on a crowded commuter train? Rigid buggies and shopping to carry? As far as I know, there's no special facilities for them there either, but you can guarantee that they'll block the aisle if they get on with that lot.
The point I'm making, I suppose, is that we should all have to play with the cards we're dealt. If you can't get on a particular bus, for whatever reason, bite the bullet and get the next one. Don't ask the dealer for a stacked deck.
59

missy k,

18/08/2008 17:06:33
mad jock,,,, the mums do wait for the next bus, we dont tell the disabled wheelchair user to get off, the point is they cant get on the bus at ALL,even when the space is free!
60

Rollo Tommasi,

18/08/2008 18:02:54
These mothers shouldn't be targeting bus drivers with these cards.

They should be focusing their attention on their inconsiderate fellow-parents like Missy K. If the ban on prams is fully enforced in future, it will be because of the actions of these selfish so-n-so's, who refuse to make way for wheelchair users.

What the likes of Kate Joester should be saying is "Give us parents a chance to show we're responsible and considerate. If we're not, then you've every right not to allow prams onboard at all."
61

sandy bingley,

18/08/2008 18:05:50
will the prams stand behind the drivr on the new trams as in the old trams or is it back to the draingboard we didnt think of that
62

,

18/08/2008 18:33:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
63

Friar Tuck,

18/08/2008 18:33:40
Simple solution - take out all the seats between the doors.
64

missy k,

18/08/2008 18:41:21
#63

how am i inconsiderate..i dont get on a bus when a wheelchair user is on,, i get off bus when a wheelchair users wants on... i woulnt expect a wheelchair user to get off to let m on.

my point is, when the buses are empty, why not let the buggys on ?
65

Rollo Tommasi,

18/08/2008 18:46:16
Missy k - Your post 67 doesn't seem to match your post 60, when you say "the amount of people with pushchairs out numbers the amount of people in wheelchairs, first come,first served as they say...".

When you say "first come first served" are you saying you're prepared to move to let a wheelchair user board the bus after you?
66

,

18/08/2008 19:26:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
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67

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 20:22:28
as a driver with Lothian Buses I for one will not be handing out any protest cards from now on anyone can get on my bus if they want they can even stand where they want the reason for this tonight on a service bus with standing room only I asked everyone to move inside the bus to make rooom for others was met witha torrent of abuse from a couple at the front of the bus threatened etc and did any of the other passengers say anything NO you all make comments about drivers just doing there job but when we get the threats and abuse for doing that simply to make your journey better and safer you all just sit there so for me now its a free for all first come thats it
68

LB1,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 20:30:00
AS a driver with lothian buses some times im anoyed with perants with buggies when they are on the bus and a wheel chair user wants on i get out my cab and ask the perant if they can fold the buggie politly and in reply i get (no the bairn is sleeping) or just (no) then i feel guilty.then the wheelchair user is left.wee as driver cant win.
69

missy k,

18/08/2008 20:47:30
yeh first come first serve, if tther isnt a wheelchair waitin to get on,and no wheelchair on the bus, why not be allowed on the bus with a pram, yeh ther might be a wheelchair wnting on the next few stops, but ther might not be..

so are you lso implying that the elderly seata at the front shldnt have any 1 under 65 in them? you may sit in them then 2 stops down ther is an elderly person who wants on ann#d need the seat... so if ther isnt any eats left other than the elderly ones, you hldn be aloowed to stand either then..
70

missy k,

18/08/2008 20:48:27
sorry for the typen, keyboard at work is pants..LOL
71

,

18/08/2008 21:13:41
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72

,

18/08/2008 21:15:25
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73

miss bus driver,

edinburgh 18/08/2008 21:46:52
Im a bus driver and i wont let prams on the bus, my reason being,a small baby is lying sleeping in there pram you get some idiot driver or person pulling out,in front off you, you then break very hard to avoid hitting something or someone, The baby then shots up the pram and breaks the neck,whos responisble then the parent oh no,it will be the DRIVERS fault, you cant win.
Our job is hard enough driving in edinburgh at the min, without self mothers moaning about not getting on a bus,i thought you childs safety would come first abviously not.
74

Rollo Tommasi,

18/08/2008 21:55:13
Missy k: FYI, I've travelled on the bus with an elderly person before and sat with her near the front of the bus. If the seats around are filling, well yes I have got up and moved in order to let another elderly person travel.

It's basic thoughtfulness to a fellow human being whose need is bigger than mine.

And that's my basic point. If parents with prams and buggies are considerate and are prepared to move in order to let a wheelchair user in, then they should be allowed to travel on our buses. The unfortunate thing is that there are too many selfish parents out there, as LB1 and others have described. If Lothian Buses are considering a full-on ban on prams, then it's because of the inconsiderate actions of these selfish parents. They're the ones other parents should blame for a pram ban - not Lothian Buses (who need to ensure they're not breaking disability discrimination laws).
75

,

18/08/2008 22:38:24
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
76

Cassandra,

18/08/2008 23:02:41
#25 Petrol Head

To answer your query (and, yes I do know what I'm talking about, my work involves advising on access) if the bus is full, (in other words, with the maximum number of passengers seated and standing) the driver does not have to let either a wheelchair or a buggy on board.

The problem is that not all buses have a wheelchair space, so there's no guarantee a wheelchair user will be able to get on the next bus, as all of you who say first come, first served are so keen for them to do. People with foldable buggies, however, have the choice to fold them up and get on.

Once someone has paid their fare, it's unreasonable to ask them to get off, but not, I think, unreasonable to ask them to fold the buggy if possible. And there's no excuse blocking the space and taking your kids upstairs so that wee Darren (3) can look out the front window.

This row is likely to go on for another 9 years, as bus companies have until 2017 to replace all their vehicles with accessible ones. I believe Lothian is trying to have all its vehicles accessible by 2012.
77

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

19/08/2008 00:07:51
Pram pushers should be made to use the lanes for cycles, taxis & buses & not clog up our pavements, streets & buses.
78

Julian.,

edinburgh 19/08/2008 00:41:04
Fuel Head,

You asked why the wheelchair user should take priority.

Simple answer: because they have no choice. The mother who has a non folding pram/buggy does have a choice. Even if she has already bought one, an extra £40 would get her a fold down version. A luxury the wheelchair user does not have.
79

Julian.,

edinburgh 19/08/2008 00:45:34
MISSY K,

I find it helpful if you read your comment and correct any mistakes before pressing the post comment button. That way, other readers have a fighting chance of understanding what you are trying to say.

SUNNY JIM,

Spot on remarks.
80

PORK CHOPS111443,

Edinburgh 19/08/2008 00:47:24
I HAVE A TWIN BUGGY,AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO GET ON SOME BUSES WHERE OTHER BUS DRIVERS HAVE LET ME ON,BUT AS SOON AS A WHEELCHAIR PERSON COMES ON,I LEAVE THE BUS AND GET THE NEXT BUS THAT WILL LET ME ON. BUT THERE WAS ONE TIME A PERSON WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR,AND AS SOON AS THEY GOT OFF THE BUS THEY GOT OUT OF THE WHEELCHAIR AND STARTED WALKING ALONG THE ROAD WITH IT. THE WHEELCHAIR USER SHOULD SHOW THERE PROOF OF DISABILITY,WHEN GETTING ON A BUS.
81

Mr Fuzzy,

Edinburgh 19/08/2008 00:49:25
#9
They do a similar thing in San Francisco - there are bars on the back of single decker buses so that bicycles can be secured and carried. The local train service also had a carriage specially reserved for cyclists. There were a number of racks that were allocated based on the final destination of each cyclist.

Having buggies and prams obstructing the train doors was a problem in Liverpool. The chavs would see nothing wrong with filling the extra space up with a line of two or more buggies. You then had to run to the other end of the carriage before the train left the station, otherwise you would miss your stop.
82

Linmal,

Livingston 19/08/2008 09:12:45
Again I say to all of you - get a life! Be nice to your fellow man/woman, smile, say please and thank you and you will be amazed at the doors that will open for you. You might even be offered a seat on the bus!

I was brought up to give up my seat to an adult when I was a child. The trouble is that no-one seems to employ even basic manners these days.
83

lothian bus driver,

in da house 19/08/2008 09:34:44
Ha ha red cards just hand me one and make my day it will bring a smile to my face. I love all this nonsense I have been instructed by my boss to carry out these actions I have not thought to myself oh I think I will ban prams. So why the red card.

Infact if anyone gives me a red card the will be asked to leave the bus. I don,t get paid to take this.
84

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

19/08/2008 11:28:58
"You're either on the bus or you're not on the bus"

-- Ken Kesey
85

Jack Bond,

19/08/2008 12:24:24
I was on the route 5 last night and for once the driver used his discretion, there was a woman that got on the bus with a pram that could be folded, however the baby could not be restrained in to the pram. The driver asked the woman if she would take the baby out of the pram, which she said she did not have a problem with that, the driver explained that if he was to break hard in an emergancy and the baby was injured in anyway he could not live with himself. The driver waited until the baby and mother was sitting safely, and everyone was happy. Well done that driver
86

Shaun McDonald,

London 30/08/2008 11:07:56
They should make the busses, so that they can take multiple buggies, prams and wheelchairs.

 

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