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One man band Salmond is damaging SNP, says Sillars

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Published Date: 09 November 2008
THE SNP recriminations over the Glenrothes by-election intensified last night when one of the country's most influential Nationalists cautioned against the party continuing to govern as a "one-man band".
Jim Sillars, the former SNP MP, claimed too much power had fallen to Alex Salmond, adding that the party leader did not like having people around who might disagree with him.

The accusations came as Nationalists continue their postmortem over the defeat in Fife. The party had expected to take the Glenrothes seat from Labour but saw their rivals hold it with a large majority and an increased share of the vote.

Sillars called for a rethink that would share more equally the power base within the SNP Government. "A one-man band is okay," he said. "But not when that band stops playing the tune that people want to hear. What has happened in the SNP is that power has shifted to the parliamentary group, and that means Alex. He has been able on his own to determine policy and party direction. Once power shifted, it shifted to Alex and that is a dangerous position for him to be in."

Sillars, who is still an SNP member despite past arguments with the leadership, added: "I don't think Alex's great strength is having people around him who may contradict him on occasion."

Criticism of the First Minister came from a more predictable source yesterday. Iain Gray, the Scottish Labour leader, said: "Glenrothes was the day that proved Alex Salmond's honeymoon is over and also the day Labour is fighting back, renewing our contract with the Scottish people.

"Alex Salmond is now a diminished figure. His erratic judgment during the banking crisis proved he is not a serious man for serious times."

While his position is in no doubt, Salmond's judgment has been questioned after he declared the SNP would take Glenrothes just 24 hours before the polls opened.

After the result came in, Salmond admitted he should have listened to warnings and gone on to launch a vigorous rebuttal strategy to counter an effective Labour attack highlighting an increase in care charges from £4 per week to £11 per hour.

The SNP leader's theory was that Labour's relentless pursuit of this issue and the SNP's failure to recognise it as a threat saw the SNP's lead evaporate in the final week of the campaign. Salmond's analysis, however, could be judged as too crude. Although Labour's tactic was effective, home care charges were not the whole story. Gordon Brown's performance in battling the turbulent economy and a strong local candidate contributed to the result.

Right up to the last minute on Thursday night,SNP tacticians believed they would take the seat. After all, their formidable machine had got out their vote (which did rise by 13%). What they had not accounted for was the surge for Labour.

There was no hiding the shock from the SNP as Angus Robertson, the SNP Westminster leader, and Peter Murrell, the party's chief executive, huddled nervously around a laptop as the votes were counted and it became clear that they had made a massive misjudgment.

Salmond, who had been almost ever-present in the constituency, was not there. He had retired to Bute House, where he watched Labour sweep to a 6,737 majority on his television. The SNP's misery was compounded on the same night when Labour took two council ward by-elections in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Earlier in the campaign, the SNP's internal information had suggested that the Brown bounce was not having an effect in Glenrothes, but the poll appears to have confirmed what has been mooted for weeks: that

Brown has been credited with protecting people's savings while the SNP has looked vulnerable in the face of global financial turbulence.

Another major asset for Labour was their candidate, Lindsay Roy, a personal friend of Brown. By his own admission, the former Kirkcaldy High School headteacher was a relative novice when it came to politics. But his performance on the doorsteps was impressive, where his ability to engage with ordinary voters was a huge asset to Labour.

On the other hand, Peter Grant, the SNP candidate, appeared to have been hampered by being the leader of Fife Council – the organisation associated with the home care charges.

Labour's jubilation at retaining Glenrothes will have been tempered yesterday by the publication of a poll showing David Cameron's Conservatives 13 points ahead of Labour. The ICM survey follows a string of polls in which Labour reduced the Conservative advantage to single figures.

The survey, which gave the Tories an 80-seat majority in the Commons, underlined the dangers of Brown calling a spring election, despite some Labour politicians urging him to go to the polls early.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 November 2008 11:02 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Scottish National Party
 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:08:58
"Salmond, who had been almost ever-present in the constituency, was not there. He had retired to Bute House, where he watched Labour sweep to a 6,737 majority on his television."

Like a rat deserting a sinking ship!
2

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09/11/2008 00:13:08
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09/11/2008 00:15:46
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09/11/2008 00:16:35
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:16:40
Great to hear from Jim Sillars again, a true patriot and an honest man.

Just a pity Scotland has been infultrated with quislings like Rufus and his weakling ilk who Sillars would'nt even have the disdain to spit on.

I have a lot of time for Jim and what he says and think he is right in some ways. I would like to see him more involved despite his arguments with Salmond.

Jim is one of those true heroes who never gave up and always stood his ground much in the same vein as Ian Hamilton, both true Scots to the core.

Just a pity Scots have descended to the quisling mentality and the poor second-rate weakness of people such as Rufus; not that he will ever achieve anything.
6

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09/11/2008 00:16:54
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7

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:17:04
At least Lyndsay Roy will take up his seat in Westminster.

I have been watching Prime Ministers Questions for the last few weeks and Alex Salmond has never been there once.

In fact no SNP question has been asked for months.

What a waste of money.
8

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09/11/2008 00:17:33
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09/11/2008 00:17:49
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09/11/2008 00:18:01
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09/11/2008 00:18:44
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Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:19:14
Nevskys big word of the night is Quisling!

More power to you Nevsky (The Quisling that does not even live here).

13

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09/11/2008 00:19:31
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09/11/2008 00:20:10
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09/11/2008 00:21:10
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Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:21:39
6 Nevsky,Moscow 09/11/2008 00:16:40

"Great to hear from Jim Sillars again"

"I have a lot of time for Jim"

Thats nice to know Nevsky.

Jim will be really pleased.

Nevsky has a lot of time for him.

Any Norway stories for us?
17

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09/11/2008 00:21:51
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09/11/2008 00:22:27
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09/11/2008 00:23:22
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Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:23:45
Nevsky, what do you make of Margo McDonald?

Do you have a lot of time for her?

The world needs to know.
21

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:25:05
8 Rufus#

Lindsay Roy will do nothing and well you know it. However i doubtless believe that he is an honest man who believes in his cause however misguided he may be (he didn't even know the SNP had increased his school budget).

You on the other hand are a despicable little non-entity who can indeed be described as a quisling.

Edinburgh unionist lol, second rate Scot and a second rate Brit with not a brain in it's head.
22

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09/11/2008 00:25:22
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:27:18
21 Rufus#

The unionist without a girlfriend. Sitting in his shared flat pronouncing on the SNP all day. What a great life you have you little non-entity.
24

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09/11/2008 00:28:32
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:28:39
21 Rufus#

You are a quisling.
26

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09/11/2008 00:30:36
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Tris,

09/11/2008 00:30:57
#8

Yeah he'll take up his seat and I guess the first thing he will do is retract his victory speech and admit that it was SuperGordon what won it, and nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Then he can start asking questions about by-passes, school funding and care, and will doubtless be told that the questions are out of order. Then he will come back home and tell his constituents that unfortunately he got the parliaments mixed up, what with him not being a politician and all.... idiot.
28

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:31:18
21 Rufus#

Margo is a great woman and to be respected, she has been a commited nationalist since day one. You on the other hand have not the ba**s to stand in an election and the only mark you will make on Scotland is on your bedsheets.

You are a quisling Rufus, deal with it!
29

J J MAROONER,

09/11/2008 00:33:44
Mr Sillars barely disguises his contempt for Salmond, must say though Salmond was very complacent, not helped by some of the nonsense Nicola Sturgeon came out with.
30

Tris,

09/11/2008 00:35:12
#8

Prime Minister's Questions is a piece of theatre. It is not for serious questions that take the debate forward. It has that in common with First Minister's Questions in Edinburgh. Both are a waste of time and money. If politicians want to be stand up comedians, they should do it in their own time.

The fact that Alex Salmond has not been at PMQs in a long time is of no material import.
31

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:37:14
Nevsky I feel your pain!
32

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:39:04
31 Nevsky,Moscow 09/11/2008 00:31:18
21 Rufus#

"the only mark you will make on Scotland is on your bedsheets".

Tut Tut Nevsky, such intemperate language.

Have you been inhaling that Polonium 210 again down in the factory?

33

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:42:30
Nevsky you sound a bit bitter there.

What has upset you?

That SNP humiliation on Thursday night?

You can do better than that.

Yes You Can!
34

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:46:01
35 Rufus#

Would be slightly amusing apart from the fact it comes from someone who thought that Chernobyl is in Russia lol.

Intemperate probably but accurate certainly and you still a quisling, without doubt.

Edinburgh unionist lol.
35

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:51:14
37 Nevsky,Moscow 09/11/2008 00:46:01

"Would be slightly amusing apart from the fact it comes from someone who thought that Chernobyl is in Russia lol."

Untrue Nevsky. Another Lie.

Reread my post, thats not what I said at all.

How is Norway this days, can you not regale us with your stories of whaling and catching puffins?
36

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:56:48
I still feel your pain Nevsky.

It must be great living in another country, and telling the people in Scotland how they should live their lives.

A bit like Sean Connery, but at least he pays some tax now and again.

Do you bore the Muscovites on the Pravda message boards as well, or are we getting a special privilege over here in the United Kingdom?
37

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:57:11
38 Rufus#

You are so dim you thought Chernobyl was in Russia and also on that night that Scotland has 1,000,000 tax payers when in fact it has 2,500,000.

Perhaps you think your whaling and puffin jibe would be funny to Norwegians? Such a wit!

I am guessing you didn't go to a private school?

Edinburgh unionist lol.

I would have thought you might have met a nice girl from Berkshire by now, you being her equal (haha) from Edinburgh?

38

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:59:09
39 Rufus#

You really are a goon aren't you? Pravda the newspaper has not existed for years you pathetic moron.
39

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09/11/2008 01:01:31
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:02:04
39 Rufus#

Dim quotes#

1. Scotland has 1,000,000 tax payers (2,500,000)

2. Chernobyl is near Moscow (Ukraine)

3. Pravda is a current Russian newspaper (nope, wound up years ago)

Dum de dim dim dum de dum dum.......


41

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 01:06:45
41 Nevsky,Moscow 09/11/2008 00:59:09

"You really are a goon aren't you? Pravda the newspaper has not existed for years you pathetic moron."

Indeed but I could not be assed googling to find a real one.

1. Scotland has 1,000,000 tax payers (2,500,000)

Yeah you were the fool that fell for that one and went and got the real figures for me. Keep up the good work.

2. Chernobyl is near Moscow (Ukraine)

Yeah take it out of context if you so wish.

I still feel your pain
42

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 01:09:00
40 Nevsky,Moscow 09/11/2008 00:57:11

"Perhaps you think your whaling and puffin jibe would be funny to Norwegians?"

Can you find out for me?
43

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 01:11:31
33 Tris,09/11/2008 00:35:12

"Prime Minister's Questions is a piece of theatre. It is not for serious questions that take the debate forward. It has that in common with First Minister's Questions in Edinburgh. Both are a waste of time and money. If politicians want to be stand up comedians, they should do it in their own time.

The fact that Alex Salmond has not been at PMQs in a long time is of no material import."

Okay, but he is never down at Westminster. Ever. So whats the point in him having the seat and accepting the salary?
44

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 09/11/2008 01:12:20
And right on Cue, more people and by that I mean those of us within nationilist ranks would pay attention to What Jim Sillers says about Alex Salmond if he ever had the good grace to admit that it is personal with him.

He is entitled to his comments, but when speaking about Alex Salmond a little honesty would be nice.

And before any one trys to tell me, I know, the feeling is mutal between them both.
45

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 01:13:48
Nevsky.

It must be great living in another country, and telling the people in Scotland how they should live their lives.

A bit like Sean Connery, but at least he pays some tax now and again.

Do you bore the Muscovites on the **Insert Russian Nedwspaper name here please Nevsky** message boards as well, or are we getting a special privilege over here in the United Kingdom?
46

Just an opinion,

USA 09/11/2008 01:17:05
Hmmm, wasn't Jim Sillars the big LABOUR man once upon a time??
Ooooooh, then he became a Scottish something or other as he saw the wind changing.
Aah, then the SNP looked like it was the vehicle for Jim to join the never ending list of opportunists who see Parliament as a much better option than actually WORKING, so he joined the SNP.
Let's get serious here, Jim is an opportunist who is once again looking for an opportunity.
Politicians, whatever their ilk, all wear THAT same coat.
47

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:17:46
44 Rufus#

It's ok. You just need to do a little reading (actually a lot) and everything will be ok.

I mean it's not like everyone on these boards is unaware that you are nothing less than an uneducated buffoon and a quisling.

You are the brunt of every joke on here, if you were on a ship you would be the monkey with a little hat on it's head (although to be fair to them they could play the accordian).

You are just an uneducated quisling, who, i am guessing is talking his mummy and daddy's words from the second best city in England (Edinburgh) lol.

Hope you manage to get a woman soon (although i doubt it). Maybe you shold advertise on 'Scottishunionistdating.com' it's very popular i hear!
48

SilverShred,

in the jamjar 09/11/2008 01:20:41
I'm barely able to type for laughing at the idea that Sillars is "one of the country's most influential Nationalists". I can honestly say that I haven't heard his name mentioned in nationalist circles (other than as 'Im Indoors to Queen Margo)in at least a decade.

Is Tom Peterkin the new custodian of the Tardis?
49

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 01:28:00
Oh Nevsky I feel your pain.

Give it a couple of weeks and the Snps humiliation in Glenrothes will start to be forgotten about.

In the mean time you could maybe divert everyones attention away from it with some good stories from the old country, Norway.



50

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:43:57
52 Rufus#

Astounds me that you have neither the wit nor wisdom to make any contribution that is of an significance whatsoever, truly astounding!

Anyway back to your lonely bed in Edinburgh with the though that tomorrow is another day in which you can turn against your own country!

51

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:49:36
51 Silver#

Agreed, and Jim has wasted himself. He was one of the most impressive speakers i have ever seen of any political persuasion, no-one (as far as i am concerned) could hold a candle to him in a debate.

He could and should have put personal aggrievance aside and contributed more!

52

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 09/11/2008 03:05:25

Mr Sillars misses the point about the SNP and more important so does Mr Salmond .

The Economic arguements about Independence are a no brainer HELL we have already won .

We need to fight on a micropopulistic level .

Such as my old pensioner neighbour Mrs Ford who told me that if we won independence she would lose her bus pass so she will stick with Labour . Not true

The Mrs Ford ground is where we need to fight and thats how we lost G;enrothes
53

Watson,

Irvine 09/11/2008 04:16:06
49 Just an opinion,USA 09/11/2008 01:17:05
Hmmm, wasn't Jim Sillars the big LABOUR man once upon a time??
Ooooooh, then he became a Scottish something or other as he saw the wind changing.
Aah, then the SNP looked like it was the vehicle for Jim to join the never ending list of opportunists who see Parliament as a much better option than actually WORKING, so he joined the SNP.
Let's get serious here, Jim is an opportunist who is once again looking for an opportunity.
Politicians, whatever their ilk, all wear THAT same coat.

SPOT ON. Sillars would sell his granny for a penny to promote himself.
54

A comrade in ellon,

09/11/2008 07:07:36
55 Mark Bhoy you are right your neighbour will not lose her bus pass if scotland becomes independent, she will loose a hell of a lot more than that.

55

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 07:13:56
http://www.scottishunionist.com/

Marky Bhoy,
Dunfermline 08/11/2008 00:29:33

If Scotland is to remain in the Union for the rest of my lifetime I would prefer to die .

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=57528261582621

it was posted at 00.29 on a Saturday morning by a drunk Celtic fan. Hardly a "curious insight into the inherently destructive nature of fringe forms of nationalism", curious insight to a drunk mans mind however it may be.

That right marky boy Eh? hows the ticker

56

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 07:20:24
Jim sillars is right Alex has got to big for his boots Alex's "messiah complex" is proving a danger for the snp project. Best get rid of him


57

beeree,

09/11/2008 07:26:15
"Okay, but he is never down at Westminster. Ever. So whats the point in him having the seat and accepting the salary?"

Rufus, what a stupid question. Read those words
"accepting the salary". The venality of this crew is almost beyond belief - ask Donald he knows.
58

Central Station,

09/11/2008 08:26:28
Salmond's problem is that he polarises views.

For every person who admires him in Scotland, there is another who intensely dislikes him. I would go as far as to say no politician since Thatcher has provoked such reaction!

I was always of the opinion that Salmond could only take the SNP so far, all be it admittedly that theory was tested by his success at the last Holyrood election.

However, I am now certain that in the unlikely event that the SNP were successful in their bid to take Scotland down the separtist route it could only be done without their current leader.
59

Goat Boy,

09/11/2008 08:39:05
And I thought the 'S' in SNP stood for 'Salmond'.
60

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 08:45:19
John Swinney says all Scots will be £20,000 better off by 2017.

Does anyone know if this will be a gradual process say £2000 a year or will we all receive £20,000 cheques through our doors?

All the financial experts are predicting doom and gloom for the next 5 years whilst the Snp promise us all £20K each in ten years.

Vote SNP!
61

Roy,

09/11/2008 08:48:49
Was the insufficient increase in the SNP vote in Glenrothes due to the MacRaskill factor? It's a fair question.
62

eric,

09/11/2008 08:51:48
Roll on the general election,England will have my support then.
63

Pleistoanax ,

09/11/2008 08:57:36
Where are they? where are they? the snp Cybernats hiding away in their caves watching spiders no doubt.
64

eric,

09/11/2008 09:10:06
Roll on the general election.
65

bonhommedubois,

Glasgow 09/11/2008 09:10:28
FACT: Between 65% and 70% of Scots (true, patriotic, fervent, proud Scots) will not vote for independence.

STRANGE FACT: Those Scots who wish independence feel the way to get it is by abusing, threatening and belittling those Scots who don't want independence.

QUESTION: Can someone please explain to me how a majority will ever vote for independence?


66

Miss H,

09/11/2008 09:12:03
68 Does the fact that Try voters in Glenrothes voted en mass for Labour not bother you?
67

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 09:21:12
8 - Rufus T Halfwit ; "Lindsay Roy will at least take up his seat at Westminster"
And what's the betting we don't hear a chirp from him from the benches ?
68

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 09:24:17
59 - "Jim Sillars was right" ? Such as in "90 minute patriots" ? or the SLP ? or his earlier career in the UK Labour Party ? or his suggestion that we abstain from voting in the 97 devolution referendum ?
69

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 09:24:35
#62 Central Station

For every die-hard Labour voter who does not mind being ruled by tory minded, ex-public schoolboy, London centric, career politicians, or a monkey wearing a red rosette, there is another who admires Alex Salmond.

Those who hate Salmond are those who fear his success in standing up for Scottish interests will dispell the myth that Scotland is too wee, too poor, and us Scots are too stupid to be trusted to look after our ourselves.

I am saddened to hear the numbers who these days refuse to vote because of their experiences of politicians who would lie through their teeth and sell out their own electorate for some bauble from London party HQ.
70

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 09:25:58
71 - they're both sides of the same Queen's shilling.
71

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor .com 09/11/2008 09:26:05
It was religion wot did it!

http://www.scottishmediamonitor.com/features2.cfm?ID=32
72

Shug,

09/11/2008 09:34:07
76. Maybe it's just that the majority of people in Scotland are happy with things as they are. Just a thought.
73

Steve,

Bo'ness 09/11/2008 09:36:08
Labour lied in pretty much all of its election literature. They lied repeatedly and consistently, spreading fear and rumour. That's why they won.
I've yet to see one single newspaper admitting that they lied, or try to investigate their sick claims seriously.If anything, the media did all they could to hide the lies told by Lindsay Roy, and concentrate on smearing Salmond and Peter Grant.

Salmond isn't without blame, he should have nailed the lies from the very start. The people of Glenrothes have been cheated and manipulted. But what the hell, its victory that counts for Labour, at any cost.
74

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09/11/2008 09:42:23
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75

Shug,

09/11/2008 09:45:09
No chance to comment on the Celtic story. Only one word can sum up those who planned to walk out if a minutes silence for our war dead was observed...scum!
76

The_Reiver,

09/11/2008 09:45:27
"the party leader did not like having people around who might disagree with him"

But do you mean that Salmond is not infallible? Surely this can't be.

The grand old first minister of Scotland,
He had one thousand activists,
He marched them up to the top of the hill,
----OK you know the rest.
77

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09/11/2008 09:46:08
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78

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 09:49:40
#70 bonhommedubois

How will a majority ever vote for independence?

Simple, like in '79 and '83 or '79, 42-44% of a 75% (60% for Blair)turnout is sufficient to produce record breaking landslide majorities at Westminster general elections.

ie If about 33-35% of the Scottish electorate vote SNP at the next UK general election you could expect to see about 70% of Scottish seats go to the nationalists.

Ipso Facto: Scottish independence.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him".
79

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 09:56:28
#63 Goat boy - Goat by name & by nature.
Ruffled A$$ licker & GB007, Take the advice of
Billy Connolly - get yourselves an Agent,why sit at home handling yourselves.

X SNP FOR ME x
80

tommy M,

Scotland 09/11/2008 09:58:11
Lindsay Roy, the headteacher who didn't even know the SNP had increased his school budget!

Talk about incompetent Liebour!
81

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 09:58:33
#84 Aberdeenshire Scot

Labour only coughs up for Scotland when it is soiling its underpants at the thought of Scots voting for the interests of themselves and their families in Scotland, any other time and we are just fodder.
82

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 10:00:26
#81 Aberdeenshire Scot

It was the snp and their First Minster who were claiming this by election 'Was in the Bag'.

Whilst labour were far more cautious (respectful) of the Scottish electorate and whom they may vote for.
More the rapier as opposed to the snps megaphone and Blunderbuss approach. Flooding the area with the snps extremist strangers was also an overkill tactic which alienated many voters.

#85 livilion

But your not a patriot
83

tommy M,

Scotland 09/11/2008 10:02:44
Isn't it interesting that when the voters were given the opportunity to scrutinise the candidates and the party policies, as in the TV debates and media coverage of Glasgow East, they voted AGAINST the corrupt, lying liebour party.

A virtual media coverup resulted in the people of Glenrothes being fooled - wonder what they are thinking waking up to the headlines that Thatcher Broon now plans to strip OUR parliament of more power.
It's OUR parliament, our nation, our power, our oil, our money, our children's futures - not westminster's.

Hang your head in shame Gordon Brown, traitor of Scotland.
84

Scimitar1,

Alba 09/11/2008 10:02:47
Salmond is an arrogant,divisive and self-serving politician. Mike Russell would be a far better candidate for leader. The "old" labour types would then leave, as he's more of a centrist and the party would likely have a broader appeal across the political spectrum as they did at their apex in the 70's.
85

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09/11/2008 10:05:37
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86

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 10:06:32
#33 Tris
"The fact that Alex Salmond has not been at PMQs in a long time is of no material importance"

In case it slipped your attention, Alex Salmond is
First Minister of Scotland, His loyalty First is to the Scottish People - unlike Lord Haw Haw the unelected
wannabe in Westmidden.





87

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:11:13
74 sm753,09/11/2008 09:21:20

"Here, I know you'll enjoy this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hYq-vC5mxNQ"


HAHAHA Superb!
88

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 10:11:38
#33 Tris
"The fact that Alex Salmond has not been at PMQs in a long time is of no material importance"

In case it slipped your attention, Alex Salmond is
First Minister of Scotland, His loyalty First is to the Scottish People - unlike Lord Haw Haw the unelected
wannabe in Westmidden.





89

,

09/11/2008 10:15:34
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90

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 10:17:53
#92 Aberdeenshire Scot

People vote for the snp mainly because they support their policies and vision for Scotland likewise others vote for pro- Union parties.

all this being duped by Unionist lies deceits etc etc ad infinitum is really best left to the snp students union.

The fact is the vast majority cast their vote in the way they want and they know full well what they are doing and why.

It is you and the other snp supporters who show their elitist disdain for the Scottish peoples Democratic choice.
91

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 10:19:22
#89 Nikostratos

"...labour were far more cautious (respectful) of the Scottish electorate and whom they may vote for..."

ROTFL! Aye good one, like in Shettleston where my traditionally Labour voting kin said the Labour candidate alienated them by her Maggie Thatcher style(their words) patronising attitude?

Not a patriot?: because I owe my allegiance first and last to Scotland and not to Whitehall's London-centric agenda?

Maybe I'm just another one of the timid joining the patriot?
92

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:21:58
And don't forget that in 10 years time, all families in Scotland will be £10,000 a year better off.

Well thats what John Swinney says.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7089402.stm

The Scottish Government is to start a consultation in the next few weeks on replacing council tax with a local income tax.
Finance Secretary John Swinney said the plan is part of a 10-year economic strategy to make households £10,000 a year better off.

WHY OH WHY RISK INDEPENDENCE?

We are all going to rich beyond our wildest dreams.
93

,

09/11/2008 10:21:59
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,

09/11/2008 10:23:09
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Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:26:55
So everybody will be £10,000 a year better off. Thats pretty good. Makes you want to vote SNP. That could pay for 4 or 5 holidays a year. I wonder how John Swinney costed it.


96

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:27:46
101 Aberdeenshire Scot,09/11/2008 10:23:09

Good point. That means we will all be £15,000 a year better off.
97

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:28:46
John Swinney will have factored all that in.

All those people on benefits will never need to work again. Once they add £10,000 a year to their benefit allowance, they will be rich beyond their wildest dreams.
98

GMCD,

dundee 09/11/2008 10:28:53
The problem is that Salmond is the best thing about the SNP (all the rest being intellectually subnormal and/or socially-inept) and the public have sussed out his high blown rhetoric and smugness...They don't like Salmond and they certainly don't trust him...looks like the SNP have missed their best chance of getting a referendum on independence BUT that won't matter because as usual it wil be cast as a Unionist plot and not what it is, a SNP failure.....
99

,

09/11/2008 10:28:58
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100

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 10:32:16
Aberdeenshire Scot,09/11/2008 10:15:34

"Clearly all the excitement of Glenrothes has caused this poor, lonely, incapacity benefit claiming"

Still on about incapacity benefit Kyle the Carrot?

What is it with you and incapacity benefit?

What has happened in your life that you have to drool day after day about incapacity benefit?

What a weirdo.
101

brusque,

09/11/2008 10:33:18
Are they still using that cardboard cutout of Lyndsay Roy, to do the campaigning?

I'm surprised they haven't programmed it to speak yet, but then, why bother, when Gordon Brown can say everything he might say anyway!!!

Glenrothes should have voted for the tethered goat, they would have got more mileage out of it.
102

,

09/11/2008 10:37:26
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103

,

09/11/2008 10:45:20
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Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 10:47:18
110 - so the country and parliament wasn't misled aboot Iraqi WMDs ?
105

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 10:48:40
79 - oh we're easily pleased ! (especially Fifers)
106

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 10:50:01
96 - not a brief nap he was taking his medication.
107

brusque,

09/11/2008 10:50:58
#109
Rock on Rufus, our resident cyber tramp, babbling and howling your dreary, unfunny, deranged nonsense on here all the time, to the certain exclusion of any normal existence on your part. Sad wee thing.""


You know, I honestly felt sad when I saw Rufus on at midnight, and being so ably supported, NAY! worshipped, by GB007 with comments like "#21:Rufus T. Firefly.Must go to bed will look for you again, your jokes make my day."

Is their a love story going on under our noses - or has Rufus just created another User Id so he can boost his ego?

Whatever, it is one of the saddest things I've seen in a long time.
108

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 10:54:57
#99 Rufus T. Firefly

'Britain is in the worst position of all the developed nations in the world to cope with the current financial crisis'. Our recession will be deeper and longer than anyone else's we are now being informed.

Poetic justice perhaps, seeing that it was the Square Mile's responses to Whitehall's deregulation and 'fill your boots lads' attitude to the financial sector which prompted the world wide situation we are now reaping?

Here Edinburgh is expendable, according to Brown and Darling, Scotland's Union Dividend?
109

,

09/11/2008 10:56:34
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110

jdships,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:03:04
62 Central Station,
Good post !!

76 livilion,
Isn't it time AS stopped trying to be a latter day "Bonny Prince Charlie" who also wished to "save" Scotland for his own ends.
"You can fool some of the people ...........etc. " comes to mind .

I did not vote SNP at last Scottish election but was quite happy to give them a fair " crack at the whip" to prove to me they could deliver.
As it stands I am less than convinced , mostly down to Salmond's poor performance so far .
111

brownlie,

09/11/2008 11:05:20
116 Aberdeenshire Scot

Leave Rufus alone - he makes the rest of us unionist seem reasonably intelligent by comparison!
112

,

09/11/2008 11:15:45
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113

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:17:45
Don't feed or discuss the trolls let their banal postings speak for themselves rather than ruining threads.

This wasn't in reality a terrible result for the SNP but it was a horrendous result for the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives.

There were possible problems in that the party tried to base its campaign around fuel bills rather than perhaps more exciting issues relevant to Westminster such as ID cards and Trident but we can all be wise in retrospect. Also, independence should perhaps have been pushed more centre stage, however last time our opponents did that for us!

Alex Salmond is the finest leader the SNP has ever had. There is an excellent group of Ministers in the Scottish parliament. We have our highest ever amount of MSP's and our highest ever poll rating.

One by-election defeat does not reverse all the party's recent success. Let's remember this was a Labour hold, not an SNP loss while Glasgow East was an SNP win.

Maybe the SNP overplayed their chances, so what? Faint heart never won fair lady. Sillars should know that from the 'free by '93' campaign. Yes, that lost as well but it still created part of the foundations of our current position by getting stuck into Labour at grassroots level.

In Fife Gordon Brown is the Prime Minister. That brings a certain loyalty and credos to the area. No doubt there is great loyalty towards him even if it is wholly undeserved.

I respect Jim and his opinions but I don't believe the SNP has ever been a one man band, nor will it ever be. That is the medias perception but it is wholly inaccurate.
114

,

09/11/2008 11:19:58
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115

Chum of Boris,

Henley on Thames 09/11/2008 11:22:57
116 Aberdeenshire Scot


Rufus often creates other monikers


I say old bean. Don't be a spoilsport. That's half the fun of the Scotsman board. I use three or four every day. I've had 3 monikers on this board already and none of them is Rufus.
116

,

09/11/2008 11:28:57
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117

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 11:42:02
I have been consistent in my comments about Salmond, I dont trust him - I cannot trust a man who puts his own agenda before that of the people - I cannot trust a man who fails to govern in order to chase HIS OWN agenda first.

Salmond does not want freedom, at least, he is not interested in freedom because he already has that. All Scots have freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom of expression etc - they have this because their forefathers all over Britain made it so.
So again, this is not about freedom, it's about the self obsessed Salmond cravings for CONTROL and POWER of a country he feels he owns.
Disagree with him and you're out!
This is a dangerous time for Scotland because the SNP fan base are becomming quite fanatical about the man they worship, cultivate and praise like a god no matter what..
118

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 11:50:54
#121 Aberdeenshire Scot

Bit sensitive there Aberdeenshire Scot eh why is that truth hurts don't it.
119

,

09/11/2008 11:55:08
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120

Churchill W.,

09/11/2008 11:56:32
Rufus T. Firefly # 94

I liked the reference to Nicola Sturgeon being similar to Jimmie Krankie. I had never noticed that before, but, it is correct though.
Salmond, after much prompting, has accepted that he was wholly responsible for not winning at Glenrothes, why can't his rabid supporters here agree with when he, at last, tells the truth?
121

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:06:37
#127

what did you cybernats do to ian mcwhirters column on the sunday herald to get all the comments shut down.



Labour’s surprise win wipes smile off Salmond's face
Iain Macwhirter on Glenrothes
122

Jonboy,

09/11/2008 12:07:39
Don't seem to recall Sillars commenting on the Glasgow East result....
123

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 12:08:39
"Right up to the last minute on Thursday night,SNP tacticians believed they would take the seat."

Oddly enough so did Labour tacticians and the vast majority of political pundits, professional and otherwise, including myself.

What I found amazing is how the politicians with their detailed canvass returns could be so horribly wrong re the result. Dodgy? Who can say?

As for Alex being a one man band, he isn't exactly without strong people in his circle, from MSPs Sturgeon, Swinney and Neil to MPs like Robertson, not to mention special advisers like Mathewson.

Of course Salmond leads from the front, he is one of the most popular politicians in the UK where else should he be?

One way of balancing the Salmond equation of course Jim is to have another strong man on board, like yourself for example.

Come the final push we will need all hands to the pump and that includes Sillars, MacDonald et al.

124

,

09/11/2008 12:10:27
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125

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 12:18:45
123 - you mean Sillars ? Jim never got over the Goval electorate reverting to Labour. hence the 90 minute patriots dig.
and I presume he's still annoyed that the electorate ignored his advice aboot the 97 referendum
126

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:24:57
Way to go Gordon tax cuts and help for the less well off unlike the snps council tax freeze for the wealthy.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/feedarticle/8004845

Brown may bring in massive tax cuts

* Press Association, Sunday November 9 2008

Speculation is growing that Prime Minister Gordon Brown is planning a £15 billion package of tax cuts to boost the ailing economy.
127

brownlie,

09/11/2008 12:25:31
Don Partridge was a one-man band - it didn't do him any harm!
128

P Rayner.,

Latin America. 09/11/2008 12:27:10
Ole fatstuff Salmond couldn´t care less about the SNP. What he´s about is self indulgence. Allof you in awe of him serve his purposes very well, but not your own.
129

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 09/11/2008 12:27:12
Sillars has a point in that whenever there was an interviewing opportunity, Peter Grant would be left looking over Alex' shoulders silent while Alex offered his extensive opinions. Hearing from the candidate might have helped his profile more, since Alex was not on the voting paper. Think about that one.

By contrast Lyndsay Roy was permitted one or two interviews, not that he was any more impressive than Rod Hull with Emu but at least he got a word in edgeways when GB or missus weren't hogging the limelight with cosy wee prepared visits to ardent Labour supporters and exaggerating local council issues in a UK Parliamentary by-election.

I'm sure the SNP do have lessons to learn from this campaign, but some credit is due in being able to whittle down the Labour majority a bit. We could also do with less biased press and TV reporting where the usual culprits were found "reporting" like Douglas Fraser, Brian Taylor and Glenn Campbell.
130

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:31:33
Here is alex with his one man band toot toot ha ha

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cza1361l.jpg
131

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 12:34:06
This is all because sweaty auld eck thinks the sno stands for the salmond national party and runs it that way.
132

brownlie,

09/11/2008 12:40:21
140 warden

How could sno stand for the salmond national party? It's the Scottish National Orchestra.

Are you a traffic warden, a church warden, a garden warden or did the word "ward" bring back memories?
133

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:43:28
so good i posted it twice

Here is alex with his one man band toot toot ha ha

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cza1361l.jpg
134

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 13:02:39
141 - he's probably a traffic warden. and in that 'job' cos he's no use at anything else.
135

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:04:39
138 The Former Mr. Angry,

Gordon Brown is the Saviour of the capitalist system, or hadn't you heard?

This talented Thatcherite former Chancellor has stridden the world stage like a Collosus, according to BBC evening news coverage of the economy.
Who wouldn't vote for him now?

Perhaps a snap general election is now in order, before the effects of the economic situation come to full fruition and scape-goats sought?
136

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 13:07:12
135 - he's planning tax cuts ? Must be a general election coming up. Such a man of principle is oor Gogs, he abolished the 10 p tax band, and raided private pensions to the tune of £ 7 billion per year - and now he's planning tax cuts !
The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.....
137

Martyk,

09/11/2008 13:07:15
I wish you would all stop having a go at Rufus. I find his posts very informative for 23 hours a day and miss him for the hour a day when he stops for a good w**k.
138

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:08:20
BTW Jim Sillars?
Which of his 'friends' hasn't he stabbed in the back?
139

Fairfife,

Fife 09/11/2008 13:16:53
The Comment in this article that the "SNP candidate, appeared to have been hampered by being the leader of Fife Council – the organisation associated with the home care charges" was certainly one factor that SNP did not take into account when choosing Cllr Peter Grant as their candidate..
For SNP to blame Labour for "scaremongering" about the charges highlights how SNP Councillors, MSP's and MP'S of Fife failed to listen and take seriously the letters and reactions of people to the rise from £4 per week to £11 per hour in charges.
People throughout Fife were very aware of the Charges affecting the disabled and elderly either because they knew somebody directly affected or because they had heard about a group of disabled people who had formed the Campaign Against Charges back in November 2007, who had been about Fife giving out leaflets and petitioning against the charges.
For any party to say it is acceptable to means test a particularly vulnerable group in society and then on the other hand promise free prescriptions to all, free school meals, etc, whatever their means, cannot expect a comparison not to be made in their actions, and questions asked.
Behaviour like this does not command respect and trust, and I only hope that a lesson is learnt by SNP cllrs, msps and mps, to listen to the people and have their best interests at heart.

140

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:20:47
145 Pilrig
Why stop at pensions?
His Brown Bottom is legendary in the Gold market, he raised as much from selling off student loan debts for about the same amount to the first bidder.

PPPs, PFIs and other off-ledger, inventive book keeping has saddled the UK with visible and invisible national debts of £1.2trillions and rising.

Hence the reason Britain is now about the 100th best placed of the UN's developed countries to ride out the economic storm.

In the West, GBR is going to experience the deepest and most prolonged recession, due in no small part to Gordon Brown's stewardship of the Economy. Isn't that why we love him?

Call it your Union Dividend.
141

open,

west coast 09/11/2008 13:28:47
SNP supporters think the sun shines out of Salmonds ass.
There is NO major political party that is making substantial change to what is ULTIMATELY wrong in Scotland. The legal mafia are destroying not only the wealth of Scotland but the whole infrastructure.

The absolute monopoly that has been proven to be illegal and that MacAskill, a lawyer and SNP justice minister has continued to protect, is causing enormous harm to the thousands of families thrown onto the street by the illegally enforced evictions with little or no due process. This has been going on long before the credit crunch which has been used to mask the underlying cause of the asset stripping the legal mafia carry out in secretive court hearings.

We have plenty of evidence these criminal acts by a corrupt civil legal process are increasing under the SNP using outrageous and illegal legal actions to destroy families across Scotland. We have a long way to go to remove the English crown lackeys hell bent on keeping Scotland and its people forever subservient to English rule through an EVIL legal system that has been getting away with murder for centuries.

Their victims, which includes many of our group, are NOW organised and will not rest until the millions of pounds of homes and assets are restored to their rightful owners.
Salmond and the SNP have DONE NOTHING to make that process easier in fact making it worse. We will get JUSTICE but not from Scotlands new political mafia.

LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
142

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:32:09
149 Fairfife,Fife
Aye fair enough, and Labour's record since the 50s of safeguarding miners, aluminium and shipyard workers in Fife is one to be proud of is it?

John MacDougall's long suffering and eventual death due to mesothelioma must be a comfort to all those in Whitehall charged with protecting 'the workers'.

Who blocked compensation for those thrown onto the scraphead through ill health and Thatcherite industrial scoresettling?
143

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 13:47:23
Aberdeenshire

You point out all these statisticsa about an illegal war and so many deaths and fail to mention the hundreds of thousands that enter Britain looking for sanctity from the hell in their own nations. Britain offers these people some sort of peace, some sort of normality, so before you begin your rants about inhumane actions, perhaps you should remember some of the good Britain does.

I am no fan of the war either, and it happened because Saddam was selling oil in currencies other than dollars - its politics, war is part and parcel of human nature, if it wasnt we wouldndt fight them.

Salmond is after control, not freedom!
144

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:57:55
153 Media 1
Unlike you I suspect, I have had cause to visit Dungavel Prison where those young and old seeking asylum in this country are locked up for years without trial.

A model for the world I don't think.

Scotland is after freedom and if Salmond can produce it good luck to him, or as it says:
"Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the Prime Minister of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our First Minister;
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself"
145

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 14:04:41
148
It's bound to be Hoots, he's had such a lot of practice.
146

Andrew,

09/11/2008 14:05:59
Aye, a "one man band" with only his own trumpet to toot!
147

Andrew,

09/11/2008 14:08:16
He could always ask his pal Soutar to "drum up" more support!
148

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 14:10:38
153 Village idiot

"war is part and parcel of human nature, if it wasnt we wouldndt fight them"

Curious that it seems to afflict the human condition in Whitehall more than anywhere else.
How is it that Of the over 200 nations represented at the UN, whenever there's an opportunity for bloodshed somewhere in the world it's aye Great Britain(and the USA) champing at the bit to get stuck in too?

149

Fairfife,

Fife 09/11/2008 14:23:04
#152 livilion

All parties should be answerable for their actions.
Currently after the Glenrothes by-election people are asking why this result was so surprising to an extreme.
I think probably Labour included!
All parties a like can learn from what happened.

150

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:33:04
Livion

You express yourself in an almost idle minded manner. War, whether you like it or not, IS a human trait and should you wish I could list all of them in the last 2000 years, thus proving that we have a tendancy to fight. I can also prove that Whitehall has fought less war in the last 30 years than Washington has, or Moscow, or Israel, Palstine, Congo, Sudan, Rwanda,Burundi,Slovenia,Croatia,Serbia,Beirut,Yugoslavia,Peru,Haiti,Khazikstan,Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan etc

I dont disagree that war is wrong, I would prefer it never happened, but it does because its what we want -
151

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor com 09/11/2008 14:33:47
#158 Spare me Andrew.. We already have the Happy-Clappy SNP ploughing more money into so-called 'Faith' schools, sectarian and Islamic... whatever. And as for the millions religion costs us on the NHS - don't get me started! http://www.scottishmediamonitor.com/features2.cfm?ID=35
152

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:39:32
Richard

I have no objection to Scottish independence if that is what the people decide in a referendum - If Salmond is still head after that and the SNP are the ruling party then ok by me - but the people must decide that, not Salmond -

He has been pushing for independence without first hearing the views of the people, and that is more disrespectful than anything I can remember in recent politics. The man is a liabilty and appears to be a bit of a control freak
153

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:42:22
161 Media 1

How many of those who start wars take part themselves?
154

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:44:01
162 Garry Otton

Your solution would presumably be to bomb them to bits???

How many millions do we spend on invading other countries???
155

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:48:12
Livion

You said in #154
"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself"

Cmon lad, you are not living in Palestine or Rwanda, North Korea or Saudi Arabia - You are living in the most affluent Scotland that has ever been. You are enjoying a life of quality and eating 3 maybe 4 square meals a day. You are free to go where you want, when you want, you are free to express yourself without the fear of death, you are able to work and receive pay, or not work and receive pay - You can buy almost anything your heart desires, you enjoy home comforts, television and entertainment, you eat in restaurants and visit night clubs and bars, you get to go to the theatre and drive flash cars, you can get married to a woman who also enjoys the same freedoms you do, she doesnt have to shut up and listen or be taught a lesson by the back of your hand.
This is FREEDOM! It is FREEDOM because our forefathers fought for it.
Please refrain from placing yourself in the same camp as so many truly unliberated people around the world - some people really know what it is like to be ruled, you dont - Salmond is a power monger, plain and simple
156

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 14:50:10
153 Media; war aint part of human nature, most of us are normal and want to get on with other people.

Unfortunately persons who aspire to be LEADERS tend to be abnormal, and some of them, to bolster their positions of power, occasionally indulge in actions which sometimes result in war and conflict.
157

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:53:21
Brownlie #164

Most of the people who decide to go to war NEVER see the front lines - and that has often been the case all throughout history. and it happens because the general public are wired to listen to those who tell them to fight.
What makes a man become a soldier? Hardship, a way out of the hell they live at home? Why do middle class lads not become soldiers?
I would love to have seen Bush and Saddam in a ring fighting it out themselves, but thats not how it works now is it?
158

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 14:54:28
167 Media - and Broon isnae ?

UK political policy is now tailored to keep Broon in No 10. Likewise, the policy of the previous incumbent, his third term, anyway, was for the most part a desperate search for a 'legacy'.
159

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:56:08
170 media 1


So you must agree with the SNP philosophy of peaceful co-existence.
160

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:56:09
Pilrig #169

I disagree with you - What would you do if your next door neighbour built a shed in your garden? What would you do if a guy in a pub picked up your beer and drank it?

Would you engage in dialogue? Would you both debate the current situation?

Not all humans are respectful of others and when that happens, fighting tends to be the end result.
161

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 14:59:17
Brownlie

I agree with peaceful co-existence!
BUT, as it stands, Scotland is part of the union and until such time as the PEOPLE decide otherwise, it is Salmond's duty to govern Scotland within that union to the best of his ability.
He can shout loud for a referendum if he wants, I can live with that, but shouting loud for Independence prior to a referendum is absolutely disrespectful to the Scottish people.
162

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 15:11:50
Hoots #175

If it was the same guy you would think that the person in question needed to be taught a lesson?

But let's say it's not the same guy - would you remove his shed? And what if by removing it you annoyed him? And then he told you to back off or face the consequences?
There will always be agressors and when they rear their ugly heads, its a fight.
163

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:14:48
#174 Media 1

That's a bit unfair Alex has never hidden the fact he is the enemy of the U.K and will whatever it takes to destroy the 'Union'.

164

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 15:20:54
Hoots

haha - excellent!
Good on ye
165

brownlie,

09/11/2008 15:21:20
179 Hoots

Lol!!
166

noswod,

Honestas 09/11/2008 15:23:15
Slamond illustrates everything which is wrong with the SNP. Small mindedness, unreasonable, petty, rude, overconfident, refusal to accept the facts etc etc etc. The true Scottish character of humility, community service, social caring, respect for education, taking a long term view, civility probadly alines stronger with Labour hence the vote of the people. Alex, like your ex banker sponsors, your games being rumbled and your Ba is burst.
167

brownlie,

09/11/2008 15:26:06
181 noswod

Help, and here was me thinking "Hoots" was the funniest comedian on this site.
168

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:29:17
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2466313.0.0.php?act=complaint&cid=1970526

Meanwhile, Labour held on to the ward of Baillieston on Glasgow City Council. Andy Muir was elected in yesterday's council by-election. He won 2027 votes, beating SNP candidate David Cassidy by 230 votes. Turnout at the Baillieston by-election was 21%.

Labour also won a council by-election in Edinburgh, with candidate Cammy Day taking the Forth seat with 2013 votes, ahead of George Gordon for the SNP who polled 1841. Iain McGill came third for the Tories on 1180.
169

brownlie,

09/11/2008 15:30:27
184 Nikos

Time the dog took you for a walk - don't forget your scoop.
170

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:33:39
Vote labour..............Vote Jim sillars
171

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:35:28
#185


he is snoring zzzzzzzz! his head off at the mo..take him out later
172

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 15:40:53
The shed can cause wars - the beer thing can cause serious conflict.


But imagine if the shed builder and the owner of the land that the shed was on formed a partnership? You know a kind of a union!
Wouldnt that be cool eh? and who would head up the union?
173

Itchy,

09/11/2008 15:44:38
Jim Sillars has contributed nothing to the SNP and the cause of Scottish independence since he lost his seat.

His grasp of economics is godwaful as well. Just more socialist drivel.
174

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 15:56:38
194 Itchy:
What socialist drivel are you talking about - do you think the SNP have a chance of building a real majority of support in Scotland without reflecting the overwhelmingly pro-socialist views of the Scottish public? If you do then you need to think again.
The personality and charisma of a leader are important, but if they become a substitute for substance (i.e. if you can't answer the question about the charges) then you are on to a loser. Too much having the SNP's backside in two boats (is it Ireland or Norway? - one right wing, the other social deocratic, it can't be both).
This would all be alot easier if Scottish Labour saw sense and supported independence.
175

Alan B,

09/11/2008 16:01:00
#noswod

I am dismayed you think labour is respresentative of the true scottish character. Why is lying and being corrupt central to the scottish character.

Of all the parties the one I would least trust is labour.

Yes once apon a time labour were an ethical party with some morals but that time has long past. They are an old socialist party who have given up on socialism and the moral justification for it, to adopt nothing more than doing what is good for themselves.
176

Alan B,

09/11/2008 16:07:55
I think it is a pity that the relationship between Salmond and Sillars broke down well over a decade ago. Sillars could and should offer the snp alot as he is a great communicator.

But you simply cannot have someone like Sillars undermining the leadership because he is not the leader. It is just like Margo MacDonald, Sillars wife aswell.

Do not think Sillars putting his tupence worth in after a bad loss for the snp helps anyone and certainly not the cause that both believe in.

I think the character that makes Sillars a dominant personality and political force in his day meant that he has found it difficult to accept that his ideological approach is not the prevailing one of the snp and work with the snp to deliver what at the end of the day they both believe.

177

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor .com 09/11/2008 16:19:49
Brownlie. Look up the word 'secular' in the dictionary.

I don't have a problem with religion or religionists. But if you think we should say nothing while the Happy-Clappy SNP throws money at it or lets millions be spent on it by the cash-strapped NHS (both Features on SMM website) you dream on!
178

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 16:36:14
141-brownlie- I’ve only been sent here to look after you patients, I think this continual denial of your condition helps no one especially you.
179

brownlie,

09/11/2008 16:38:48
198 Garry Otton

I don't need to, thanks.

When you monitor the scottish media do you detect a degree of bias?

Perhaps you could contemplate the head-lines in the Scotsman regarding the Glenrothes bye-election. Does that affect the way you post?
180

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor .com 09/11/2008 17:02:24
Yes Brownlie, to give space to a point of view ignored by the Scottish media for the benefit of religious claptrap.

I don't get your point about the headline. What, Jim Sillars? A homophobic t wat who is a member of a Party that pockets money from Brian Souter? What's your point?
181

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 17:02:52
Seems I've missed a shed load of fun while I was oot wi the dugs.
182

Morry,

Scotland 09/11/2008 17:26:15
He's not the man I thought he was, since he became first minister, my own thoughts on independence have changed somewhat and I have become yet another disallusioned Scot.
I do think we could be independent but not with wee eck at the helm :( sadly.
I think, SNP should take note and spring into action toot sweet otherwise they too will be swept away, like the hopes of so many scots whose dreams and ambitions are now defunct as a direct result of SNP's complacency towards just about everythig in scottish life.
183

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor.com 09/11/2008 17:37:32
Yup, my thoughts exactly, Morry. If I vote for an independent Scotland, it'll be for a Party led by a strong, liberal, forward-thinking leader that can hold its own in Europe; not an embarrasment, steered by theocratic old codgers banging their sticks on the ceiling.
184

brownlie,

09/11/2008 17:47:04
199 Warden

What condition and why me especially? If you ever find out what you're talking about, please let us know.
185

brownlie,

09/11/2008 17:50:04
201 Garry

Would you rather money was spent on murdering Muslims rather than talking to them? Hardly in line with your longing for a liberal, forward-thinking individual.
186

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor.com 09/11/2008 17:55:14
Don't talk ridiculous Brownlie. Like I said before. Look up the word 'secular' in the dictionary. Talking to them? How about people of colour were spared the SNP habit of addressing them all as 'Muslims'. Many of them are sick to the back teeth of religion!
187

Alan B,

09/11/2008 17:57:02
#Garry Otton

Cannot understand your position.

Voting for independence is for the scottish public to choose out leaders every 4yrs or so. Not about whether you like or agree the choice of the scottish electrate at one point in time.

Should people really vote for independence because Brown is clueless?

The argument for independence is that it allows the scottish parliament to make all the economic and political decisions for scotland. Allows scotland to address scotlands problems, build on scotlands strengths and deal with our weaknesses. It is about the scottish electrate being able to kick out government who we no longer like etc.

The union on the other hand means we get a one size fit all approach particularly becuase the uk has been so centralised and even with devolution so much power is still reserved. With the union if scotland does not like the westminster government it is dependent on england 90% of the time to kick out the government purely because of numerical reasons where england is so much bigger that what england votes is what counts. If england vote one way and scotland another scotland has normally to accept england decision and the policies england votes for even if it is not in scotland interests.

The problem with the union is if something is in england interest and not in scotlands the size of the electral difference and the over centralisation of the uk means scotland always loses.

The only way scotland gets a good decision is if england also want that decision or policy.

Even when scotland gets a labour government in westminster it is not the labour government scotland wanted for years but a copy of the tory party to get voted in in england.

The only advantage of the union is if you see Britain as your country and not scotland and want it held together for emotional reasons and not practical ones. Or if you think scotland is inherently too useless to make a better job than the mess the union has delivered for scotland.
188

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 09/11/2008 18:06:26
Hey Jim, ever since the SNP were happy to put the "Alex Salmond for First Minister Party" on the ballot paper they gave away the right to have any real say in the strategy going forward. Just you leave Aik alone and let him get on with it as with time his true colours will be revealed to all who cast their vote in error during May 2007.

Believe me a leopard doesn't change its spots and Jim Sillars knows more about this particular "fat cat" than most!
189

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 09/11/2008 18:18:36
When our brave leaders chose the eve of the American Presidential election to announce that they were allowing a rich American to drive a bulldozer through our conservation and planning laws they revealed their true colours as trustworthy 'independent' thinkers.
190

Garry Otton,

Scottish Media Monitor .com 09/11/2008 18:30:08
Alan B. You make a considered and weighty arguement for independence. One I couldn't argue with. My problem, is not independence, my problem is with the behind-the-scenes talks with the Catholic Church; promises that efforts will be made to exempt them from equality legislation settled in Parliament; thousands of pounds being given to an Islamic organisation; millions being sucked out of Scottish NHS Trusts for the benefit of religion... The list goes on. When Salmond met 'Muslim leaders' at Bute House, he was shortly to promise more so-called 'Faith' schools. He never 'talked' about female circumcision, Halal slaughter, treatment of women or homosexuals. With the SNP in its present form, we are sleepwalking into a very divisive Scotland, because give one religion privileges, and they all want them!
191

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 18:40:14
Religion should have no place in the world of politics.
Religion should be completely independent from politics.
Religion and religious leaders deserve as much time with the first minister as convicts do -
Salmond should not be speaking to religious leaders, he should point blank refuse.
192

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 18:49:12
Hoots

I am not suggesting that convicts and religious leaders are similar - well not all!

What I am saying is that neither has any right requesting a meeting with leaders. Religion should be banished from politics - Pray to the god entity if you want, but leave the polticians to do the politics..
193

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 18:49:51
Hoots

I am not suggesting that convicts and religious leaders are similar - well not all!

What I am saying is that neither has any right requesting a meeting with leaders. Religion should be banished from politics - Pray to the god entity if you want, but leave the polticians to do the politics..
194

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 19:02:48
Hoots;

Actually, Herring and Ice Cream is a most fabulous gastronomical delight -
Grilled herring (filleted) and then fried in plain yoghurt is a thrilling combination when added to vanilla Ice cream...
The dish must be consumed cold - Some things do go, like fillet and chocolate chilli sauce with orange zest, but religion and politics dont.
Religion is a disgusting concept...Herring and Ice cream isnt.
195

brownlie,

09/11/2008 19:18:13
210 Garry

So you think it's ridiculous for me to state that it is better, in a multi-cultural society to converse, as opposed to be in conflict, with individuals from different religions?

My point about the head-lines is that as you post yourself as a media monitor that you must be aware that headlines in the Scotsman/Scotland on Sunday prior to the Glenrothes election - not this particular one - show a distinct bias against the SNP and pro-Labour. I wondered if you had any comment on that.

As far as Sillars is concerned he no more represents the SNP than anyone else who is a member of that organisation. I do not know, and could not care less, whether he is homophobic or not. There are homophobes in every political party.
196

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 19:43:09
225
May all your doughnuts turn out like Mrs Craddock's.
197

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 19:43:43

208-brownlie-“What condition and why me especially? If you ever find out what you’re talking about, please let us know.” – My guess brownlie, as I addressed you personally, but you wish me to acknowledge a reply to you in the plural then I would suggest the possibility of a schizoid episode, and why you may ask especially you, which one of you are you talking about?

198

Farky,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 19:59:47
#5,

Nevsky, I agree with much of what you said about Jim Sillars & I'd like to see him more involved again in the SNP as he is indeed a wise man. You say he never gives up, but he did, and he walked away from being directly incolved in politics after losing Govan.

The people of Glenrothes have indeed done their country a huge dis-service, most of them though are too thick to realise the implications of supporting a party that couldn't really care any less about them!

199

Churchill W.,

09/11/2008 20:27:45
Farky # 229

Do you believe that Salmond gives a fig for your welfare? The only person that slimy Salmond cares about is; slimy Salmond. "Get used to it," in the cliched voice of SNP supporters.
200

brownlie,

09/11/2008 20:47:03
228 Warden

The reason I said "let us know" is that most of those who read your posts must be wondering what they are all about.

Perhaps, you're right about "schizoid" - I certainly pay two lots of council taxes.
201

brownlie,

09/11/2008 20:52:58
230 Churchill

Do you think anyone give a fig about your opinion?
202

brownlie,

09/11/2008 21:10:12
228 Warden

So sorry I could not wait for your reply.

Good-night from both of us!
203

Itchy,

09/11/2008 21:57:02
#195 Itchy:
Socialism is drivel, no matter which way you slice it and no matter how popular it is in Scotland.
204

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 23:00:04
212 - you must be relieved that Jim Sillars never got roond tae joinin the Lib Dems ? who knows ? he might do so eventually : )
205

bumpkin,

09/11/2008 23:30:35
who the france is jim sillars anyway?
206

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 10:46:01
#6 Nevsky

Jim Sillars is a man of unimpeachable integrity. I was proud to work with him, Alex Neil, John Robertson, Litster Gadiner, Jim Allardice, Ron Wyllie etc in the SLP from 75-80 and was delighted when he won the Govan by-election in 82.

I had not seen him for years until I bumped into him at the Feb 03 anti-war protest in Glasgow. His passion is still there for all to see and I thought he was by far the outstanding performer on the Glenrothes coverage last Thursday night.

Of course, he was marginalised by some of those who are now senior SNP office bearers, probably because of his disdain for the grey suited business-friendly clone tendency that has now taken over both the SNP and Labour.
207

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 10/11/2008 11:09:02
Jim Sillars is 100% correct. Salmond is a liability but who will replace him? Swinney can't get the job, Sturgeon doesn't want the pressure and MacAskill is hated by the party's footsoldiers.
208

57vintage,

Keith 10/11/2008 11:55:53
#238

Jimmy Calderwood?

Swinney could do it again, after all Salmond's held the post twice..... Just kidding.

Roseanna Cunningham? Too republican and has made enemies with the Ewing dynasty - it does sound a bit like a oil-focussed soap opera after all.

Too early for the often impressive Robison?

Anyway, there's no vacancy as long as the rank and file see him as their talisman.
209

SNP hypocrisy,

10/11/2008 19:57:48
Sillars is right to attacK Salmond, who'd know better than Big Jim and Margo, about the dicatatorial policies of Alex Salmond.

Salmond has surrounded himself with Yes-men and actively removed anyone who ever quesitoned his direction.

I STILL HOPE THAT MARGO COMES TO HER SENSES AND CROSSES THE FLOOR SOMEDAY TO LABOUR. THAT WOULD BE THE END OF SALMOND'S REIGN, AND A COALITION GOVERNMENT WOULD BE BACK IN CHARGE. IT ONLY TAKES HER TO DO THIS!

 

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