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New Scots home loans fall 20% in first quarter

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Published Date: 04 June 2008
SCOTLAND has seen a 20 per cent slump in the number of new home loans, according to the first in-depth report from the Council of Mortgage Lenders on the housing market north of the Border.
The CML said there were 16,000 loans for house purchase agreed in the three months to April, down from 20,000 in the first quarter last year.

But the Scottish housing market is weathering the credit storm better than the rest of the UK, where home
loans plummeted by 40 per cent over the same period.

The CML also found that the average borrower in Scotland borrowed 2.87 times their income in the first quarter of this year, compared with an average elsewhere in the UK of 3.14.

Mortgage repayments accounted for 16.9 per cent of the average Scottish borrower's income, against a UK average of 18.5 per cent.

And with house prices still 25 per cent lower than the UK average, Scotland has been able to escape the worst of the UK housing market slowdown, said Kennedy Foster, policy consultant for CML Scotland.

"The Scottish market is holding up better than that in the rest of the UK. To date there has been less of an impact in Scotland than the rest of the UK as the affordability is better here, meaning borrowers have been less affected by the tightening in lending criteria."

However, the number of mortgages is likely to fall further in the coming months, Mr Foster warned. "The shortage of mortgage funding has had a dramatic impact across the UK and we expect the slowdown to get worse before it gets better," he said. "The months ahead will be difficult in the mortgage market and it will be 2009 before we see any pick-up."

Scotland's share of the UK mortgage market increased to 11 per cent, up from 8 per cent in the same quarter last year, according to the CML data.

Scotland should continue to avoid the worst, forecast Leslie Deans, senior partner of property solicitors and estate agents Leslie Deans & Co. "Property remains decent value for money in Scotland, as we do not have the peaks and troughs that exist in England. However, there is no doubt that the credit crunch has had an effect and I would not presume to say that the worst is over for Scotland at this point."

Demand for remortgaging remained strong, with 20,000 loans in the first quarter compared with 21,000 in the corresponding period last year.

But loans to first-time buyers were down by 8 per cent, said the CML, with demand for home loans currently outstripping supply.

Reduced mortgage availability is not the only reason first-time buyer numbers have fallen, said Lesley Canavan, general manager of the money management division at the Edinburgh Solicitors Property Centre.

"The situation here is not as bad as the rest of the UK, but people have been scared off the market," said Mr Canavan. "Applications are not being declined, but people are too hesitant to apply for mortgages because they think they will not be approved. However, where affordability is not a problem, lenders will lend money."

The CML called on the Scottish Government to bolster the market through better funding of HomeStake schemes, launched in 2005 to help people on a low income who want to own a home but cannot afford the full price.

"It could help underpin confidence at this uncertain time by increasing investment in both the new-build and open-market HomeStake schemes," said Mr Foster. "We estimate that the proposed £2,000 first-time buyer grants will cost £70 million a year. That money would be better targeted at HomeStake schemes."

Expert's ten-point plan to revive market

A SCOTTISH property expert has published a manifesto designed to revive the flagging housing market.

John Brown, director of DTZ in Scotland, has created a radical ten-point plan with which he plans to lobby the government and says would give the market a boost.

The measures include the planned seller-survey packs, cancelling stamp duty for first-time buyers and making Edinburgh's tram system free of charge for the first two years to help sales at the struggling Waterfront development in Granton.

Other suggestions put forward by Mr Brown are to make a second property free of capital gains tax, help couples who owned their own homes before moving in together and reintroduce mortgage tax relief for first-time buyers, after the scheme was axed more than ten years ago.

Mr Brown said: "We are in a cycle of property prices now. We have had a brilliant ten to 12 years. Everybody has got used to continued house-price growth, and that cannot continue. However, if the government put some of these measures in place, it would give the struggling market a boost.

"First-time buyers especially have been left out of the market as prices have risen, which will have a knock-on effect as they are important to the long-term future of the market."

He added: "Introducing these measures would make people realise that this is a government that is listening to market conditions."

Mr Brown also said the Scottish Government should scrap the idea of local income tax, amid fears that the scheme could drive away high earners who may plough large amounts of cash into property.

The ten-point plan is part of DTZ's Scotland Housing Market Review which is to be published today. Mr Brown plans to hand out copies outside of today's housebuilding conference at the Edinburgh International Conference Centre run by Bell & Scott Property Lawyers.





Page 1 of 1

 
1

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

, Newington 04/06/2008 01:48:33
"But the Scottish housing market is weathering the credit storm better than the rest of the UK, where home loans plummeted by 40 per cent over the same period."

I suspect it would be more accurate to say that Scotland has found the credit crunch later than the rest of the UK and we simply haven't yet reached that 40% drop in volumes.

As for John Brown's ten point plan: government pockets are empty and the tax take will fall as economic growth falls. There is anyway, no reason to try to keep the credit bubble going, far less expect non-homeowner taxpayers to prop up overinflated house prices to benefit homeowners.

The simple fact is that the credit bubble was a massive economic problem and what we call the credit crunch is in fact the cure. It has already greatly reduced reckless lending and reintroduced the idea that buyers must fund a deposit themselves. "Skin in the game" has long been a cardinal point of banking and it's a sign of the recklessness the bubble induced that the humble deposit had vanished.

Left to itself, the credit crunch will drastically reduce prices to the level first-time buyers can come back to the markets. It will then further reduce prices
to the level that people will have enough cash left after paying the mortgage that they'll again be able to drive economic growth - without the need for suicidal levels of borrrowing.

All we can achieve by interfering to bail out reckless homeowners and stupid bankers is to drag out the process. The Japanese did this and it has taken them 19 years and counting of falling house prices, and they're down 90% in some areas.

The cure is here. Let's just take the medicine, however temporarily unpleasant.


2

Louis Catorze,

04/06/2008 07:49:00
Why ask a senior partner in a firm of estate agents for his opinion?

"Oh yes, keep buying people, nothing to worry about. Except where my next bonus will come from"

Good value for money eh? A 2 bedder in Dalry road that cost 40k in 1994 is now about 120k. Muppet.
3

JRA,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 08:19:52
Friend Of Fernando Poo is comparing our market to that of Japan again, in a misinformed attempt to convince people that we are heading down the same path.

At its peak, all Japanese land was valued at $18 trillion or 4 times that of all land in the USA - despite Japan having a smaller land mass than California. In fact the land directly below the Imperial Palace in Tokyo was valued at more that the state of Florida! It was the mother of all asset bubbles, the likes of which the world has never seen. Statistically, it makes our bubble look like a mole hill.

As the Japanese property market began to hit trouble The Bank Of Japan raised interest rates aggressively, mis judging the economic risks of the time and accelerating the demise.

Then, in the early 90's the Kobe earthquake hit taking thousands of buildings with it. Only 13% of buildings in Tokyo were insured against it (and 3% in the Kobe area). People had to use savings to rebuild their houses.

Most property in Japan is less that 60 years old due to the cumulative affect of earthquake damage, consider this quote from Robert J Geller :

'You can't make buildings earthquake-proof, but you can make them more earthquake-resistant. But that's expensive, and are people willing to pay for it?'

Finally consider this. On the wrong end of a major crash, a 1 bed apartment in an ugly Central Tokyo tower block, measuring 24 square metres will cost you £155k. That's right Fernando, it's smaller than a bay windowed lounge in Newington.
4

Green booger,

04/06/2008 08:23:36
I've been warning my family for at least a year-and-a-half. One member of my family was about to move to a bigger house. They already owned their £215k property outright, but wanted to get a £150k mortgage to move up the chain. Luckily, they listened to my concerns and pulled out - they also put a few grand of their savings into gold. Smart move.

I also own my modest little property outright and I'm staying put. Greedy people who stretch themselves financially are going to suffer.

www.infowars.com
5

Fairfax,

04/06/2008 08:38:43
JRA (3): "In fact the land directly below the Imperial Palace in Tokyo was valued at more that the state of Florida!"

Granted we never reached this level of absurdity, but we've still had silliness: one recent claim was that the land value of Hampstead and Kensington exceeded that of Scotland! That said, Friends of Fernando Poo sounds correct to me: an asset bubble has burst, the credit crunch is the natural reaction, and we're wasting time and money by attempting to ameliorate it.
6

ccc,

04/06/2008 08:58:45
Expert's ten-point plan to revive market

Shoudl read:

Expert's ten-point plan to revive his bank balance.

What a joke. How is this person allowed to put his completely selfish and greedy view out there as some sort of 'expert' - what a joke.

I love this idea - "make a second property free of capital gains tax". That is what got us into this mess in the forst palce chump features. People not buying homes to live in, instead buyign homes as 'investments'.

And on the same theme he carries on "Edinburgh's tram system free of charge for the first two years to help sales at the struggling Waterfront development in Granton"

Why don't the greedy developers just lower their prices to reasonable levels. They would get sales no problem.

Here we go again "scrap the idea of local income tax, amid fears that the scheme could drive away high earners who may plough large amounts of cash into property"

Whilst I think the idea of a local income tax is a bad one, the reason given above is a joke. Drivign away high earners who may plough large amounts into property IS A GOOD THING.

If this guy handed me one of these leaflets I would wipe my backside with it.

7

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 09:00:54
#3
Yep, you just keep your head firmly in the sand...



8

livilion,

livingston 04/06/2008 10:09:21
>>The measures include the planned seller-survey packs, cancelling stamp duty for first-time buyers and making Edinburgh's tram system free of charge for the first two years to help sales at the struggling Waterfront development in Granton.<<

You mean people don't want to buy yuppie flats where they can't have a car? Shockeroonie!
9

livilion,

livingston 04/06/2008 10:18:37
Oh aye, the flats are up for sale now, how long before the free tram to Princes St is up and running and won't it be filled with riffraff lowering the tone?

Have Edinburgh's cooncil got any ideas to keep poorer people off the Waterfront's trams like with pricing parking outside Harvey Nics and the New Town?
10

ccc,

04/06/2008 10:55:21
John Brown you are a fool:

"make a second property free of capital gains tax"

"First-time buyers especially have been left out of the market as prices have risen, which will have a knock-on effect as they are important to the long-term future of the market"

So you want to encourage more people to have more than one home. At the same time you want to 'help' first time buyers....

So what is it to be? You can't have both.

Can we not just put this Estate Agent chump in the stocks and be doen with it ?
11

Playground Monitor,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:02:12
The Hootsmon has, of course, a vested interest with its Scottish Property Today offering.

The tosh from DTZ is similar to saying the Scottish Government should give the King of Saudi a wad to help maintain inflated oil prices!

If all it takes to be cried an 'expert' is to come up with the cunning plan: "Give me a wad of public cash so I can keep conning the sheep out of their cash at hugely inflated prices!", then I'd like to introduce myself as the greatest economic expert since JM Keynes and JK Galbraith!
12

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 11:07:52
ccc is that you on your mums computer again.
the boy whos never owned a property, likes to tell us what the truth is in the big bad world as i've said before this is a small downturn anything less than 40% loss and I will still be decent profit over the last 2 years (like most others)anyone reckon on that apart from the idiot who quotes 90% loses in parts of japan (why dont you quote national loss eh!)That was a different case altogether.
13

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 11:16:41
also the guy from dtz is an idiot,
i have spoken to surveyors with the major firms in edinburgh and prices are not falling like stones. The market is stagnent. that is fact, the sales have stopped, not prices have fallen. lets have a look at the figures at the end of the year for price figures and then we will have a true picture.
14

Green booger,

04/06/2008 11:21:00
http://drjn.co.uk/cp.htm
15

Capital Boy,

04/06/2008 11:24:06
#12 how long did it take you to realise that ccc has never owned a property and most likely lives with his mammy in rented accomodation?
16

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:25:43
#12
"anything less than 40% loss and I will still be decent profit over the last 2 years (like most others)"

So you are one of those who would benefit from a significant fall in prices then?! Many seem to not realise how a fall in prices could in reality be good for them and any aspirations they have for "moving up the ladder"
17

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 11:27:25
thanks for the link #14. think you should try and get out a bit more into the real world, it might help
18

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 11:37:16
#16 no, just pointing out that a property has and will be a decent investment as i would say prices will drop around 5% this year but zero next year and i will still have lots of money that i have made on my shrewd property investments.
also can anyone show me any evidence of massive house price slumps in edinburgh. i see sales down , mortgages down, prices ehh. usual tw~ts on here who write the same thing every time a article appears no matter what it says
19

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:51:41
#18
Scotland got its boom in prices slightly after England, which in turn got a boom slightly after the USA. It does not take too much research to find out what has happened there and is starting to happen in England. Scotland is not immune, things are just delayed. If you are so confident about everything why are you bothering about the "usual tw~ts" on here?

These things are cyclical and Scotland is not as special as many of the property "experts" would like to think.
20

HughB,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 11:58:29
It's more complicated than the story suggests.

How many of the houses bought in Scotland are occupied, rather than being part of a southern speculators portfolio?

Once the speculators from down south sniff a downturn in the house prices, then the market will be flooded with houses, which will cause the prices to fall at an even greater rate.

I reckon we are in a much worse position, because we don't have the same funds up here to cope with the prices we have had to pay to get any form of house, but we have also had an influx of speculators who have caused the massive price rises in the first place, and who will also take the profits, and leave the rest of us who actually live here to suffer the consequences.
21

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 11:59:44
19# you must cut and paste that to every article. when did scotland gets it boom then?
show me when prices havent risen in scotland
i think you should cut and paste a new quote
22

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 12:07:48
#19
Yes, that is right there has been no boom in prices here is Scotland. In fact they have barely risen in the past 10 years at all.

I am not going to bother to argue with you, if you prefer to keep you head in the sand over the reality of the situation that is fine by me.
There is a simple idea behind all this, house prices in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have been rocketing in the last few years on the back of cheap and some might argue irresponsible lending. This leading has been curtailed recently, banks have needed to be bailed out by our Govenrment and this will have concequences for prices, no matter what you think.


23

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 12:10:12
perhaps if you read posts before you cut and paste yours it might make some sense
24

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 12:15:16
#23 I could say the same for you.

25

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 12:15:48
#19
you cant be bothered to argue eh well is that because you are talking nonsense. tell me you say scotland got its boom just after england can you enlighten me when this was and the facts to back it up
26

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 12:24:01
#19 still waiting for an answer or do you have you a bit too much ironing to do
27

Toddy,

Macmerry 04/06/2008 12:32:40
Prices have risen in Scotland over the years just not as much as the stupid prices as in the South of England. The market has not fallen recently as such just slowed right down as the banks make it harder for anyone to get a loan. If you take a look at say the espc it is about four times thicker now than it was two months ago. People still want to move only the problem is that at the bottom it is nearly impossible to for a first time buyer to get a mortgage without at least a 15% deposit. This feeds through the whole system as people want to move from a one bedroom flat to a two, two to a three house, etc. If you can't sell what you already own to the next generation coming in the system grinds to a halt and that is what has happened. Rental market is booming as people still need to live somewhere. In fact what a lot of people are paying in rent is about one and a half times what their mortgage would be on the same property. Problem is banks work out their lending on credit ratings and it is all done by computers. If the computer says no then you have had it. Prices coming down may help slightly in Scotland however it is the inability to get a mortgage and investors buying for renting that does not help. Solution would be to raise Capital Gains Tax on second homes over a period of years forcing investors to reduce their profitability and making more homes available to genuine home buyers. Can't raise it to quick as it would collapse an already fragile housing market.
28

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 12:39:58
#25 #26
Yes that is right, I am busy doing my ironing and as a woman obviouly do not know what I am talking about when it comes to such 'mens business' as economics. The data is out there but I really need to finish hoovering before I have the time to find it for you.
29

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 12:45:29
28# as you use the same quote all the time i had assumed that you had done extensive research on the subject and would have the figures at hand as you seem to be an expert on property matters, or is daytime tv not what it used to be.
30

ccc,

04/06/2008 12:59:33
parks is colin nish...

You are brilliant !! Your 'shrewd property invesments' !! You soudn like something out of an advert. As has been stated why bother with us lot when you are making a fortune. Why the need to stick up for yourself....Just sit back, sup your cocktails and think about your 'fortune'.....


"that is fact, the sales have stopped, not prices have fallen"

Jeeez you are not the brightest are you. I have a bike. I value it at 1 million pounds. No-one will buy it off me.

Is my bike still 'worth' one million pounds...

CLUE - The answer is no.....

And as for evidence of falls in edinburgh how about the last 4 quarters:

228
222
215
210.

How about you have a look at flats for sale in Gorgie. They are dropping like a stone. Big style. 15 of them fixed price of 120k or under. 3 months ago there wasn't even one that was fixed price of under 120k.

If you were in Edinburgh you would be seeing the vast swathes of for sale and to let signs in the city. There is a vast oversupply of property here, both to buy or to rent - quite the opposite of what we have been told for so long.

If you don't wish to believe that then fine. Your decision. Your loss.
31

Playground Monitor,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 13:07:16
Can we cut the FTBs can't get a mortgage down a bit? Sensible FTBs with handsome deposits aren't applying for mortgages because they don't want to be saddled with a falling asset as soon as they have bought it.

56% of ESPC listings are on fixed prices (FPs), EAs are offering cashbacks on old properties and FPs are falling. The chimps who bought at the height of the bubble and are saddled with SVRs because they have negligible equity are trying to jump ship.

The FTBs will hold their nerves - there's a lot more fat to be sweated out of Edinburgh prices before the market picks up again. The last thing we need is the Govt injecting cash to prop up inflated prices.
32

ccc,

04/06/2008 13:23:03
#31.

Quite true. I am sitting on at least a 20% deposit at present. I wont be buying until that becomes more like 40-50%.

It is interesting about the 'kickstart' cashback nonsense we are seeing now on old properties.

As far as I am aware nowhere else in the UK has felt the need for this, so just how bad is it in Edinburgh..
33

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 13:35:02
why would i bother with a sh*tty flat in gorgie and i am pretty smart thats why im here and youre in your mums house worrying about the prices in sh#tty flats in gorgie,I have 6 flats/houses in and around edinburgh all let out and no problems finding tennents so what about the figures in the espc compare them to the growth figures of the last five years or if you are a bit dolly dimple put them on a chart and plot it. hardly a ski slope. quality properties will not nosedive . im waiting till around christmas/new year that will be the low point and i'm buy buy buy.
34

Playground Monitor,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 13:51:44
PICN

For someone who's allegedly pretty smart and sitting in Cape Town with his finger on the pulse of the Edinburgh property maket, you appear to be functionally illiterate.

You also appear confused: At #18 you question folk's estimation that prices are falling but by #33 you are waiting for the bottom of the market at Xmas?

As you write like an illiterate teenager, I suspect you're the one at your Mum's sitting in the bedroom dreaming of the Veldt and a property empire. Go back to your X-Box and let the grown-ups worry about the market.
35

Liz,

Edinburgh 04/06/2008 14:08:48
#33
Well good luck to you and your mini empire.
I relly hope you do not have any problems when interest rates go up and I hope that when you come to remortgage your little empire you can still get access to the neccesary mortgages. But I am sure you have thought all this through and so will be absolutely fine

Oh, and it is "tenant" by the way - unless of course you are writing about what I presume is your beverage of choice which you state you have no problems getting hold of even though you are in Cape Town
36

ccc,

04/06/2008 14:23:13
So it is all going to be over by Christmas Cape Town...

Funny - but I don't think a decade long gorge on credit is going to take 6 months to blow over. More like 6 years if we are lucky.

Even the Council of Mortgage lenders and various heads of the large lenders are stating 18 months AT BEST.

If they are saying 18 months well, I reckon they actually are thinking of far, far longer...

And as for your quality property analysis I would broadly agree. However try telling that to anyone 'invested' in some of the most pleasant parts of California and Florida....

NOWHERE will be "immune" from all this. That is 99% certain.

Scotland is just lagging behind.
37

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 14:39:42
#31
ohhhhh sticks and stones
if you could read you tw*t you would see in #18 i said 5% drop this year leveling out next year therefore i will be buying at the end of the year. or is that not simple enough and your right i'm not in cape town i live in a place called melkbosstrad 20mins north of cape town but you probably couldn't read a map either.
38

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 14:52:41
#35 sorry about my spelling
but no 'tennents!' here drink of choice Groote Post merlot, can't be beaten,unfortuanatly I don't believe they export it to the UK
39

ccc,

04/06/2008 15:12:44
Parks in Colin Nish.

I hope you don't count on your SA property as part of your 'shrewd' investments....

:)

http://www.realestateweb.co.za/realestateweb/view/realestateweb/en/page196?oid=11128&sn=Detail
40

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 15:20:01
no sold up last year and rent, you think interest rates are bad in the uk, 15% here and they are looking to put it up by another 2% to combat inflation. The plus being you get nearly 10% on your long term savings which works out for people who have sold up.The figures do look bad but property has really rocketed in the cape over the last 5 years, more so than the uk so they have a long road down.
41

ccc,

04/06/2008 15:35:23
Good work then Parks !!

Just think what could happen in the UK if rates head up in that direction.... Ouch !!

If I were you I would sell up my UK property for a 'discount' price and get out whilst you still can. Your winnings at the Casino only count when you walk out the front door. You are probably too late however.

But hey I am not qualified to give advice on this so why listen !!
42

ddmc,

04/06/2008 16:16:22
"it will be 2009 before we see any pick-up."

wow this guy can do what wall st, most major banks, the city etc can't he can predict when the recession will blow over, maybe he should start buying lottery tickets or move into spiritulism he seems to be able to read the future
43

Geed,

04/06/2008 16:26:46
@13 parks is colin nish.

So if "the sales have stopped", how do you expect the agents to make any money???? Markets go up or down matey. The irony is the agents will force the prices down for us, they will determine the price for the vendor so they can have at least a chance of moving the property. As for your patronsing remarks on someones point of view, they sound like the remarks of someone drowing in fear, best fly back mate and offload what you have, ooh thats right the sales have stopped. Who knows in 2 years time I might make you a cheeky offer.
44

Green booger,

04/06/2008 16:49:09
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=common+purpose&sitesearch=#
45

Geed,

04/06/2008 16:50:18
Lets face it parks is colin nish, who I will refer to as Dave for ease has not done himself any favours. I wholeheartedly agree with; 34 Playground Monitor's comments.

Dave, your constant sniping and name calling only serves to reveal a man/boy? who is having difficulty at sleeping at night as a result of his/her over-exuberance when buying property. Do yourself a favour mate, seriously, get back here and sell what you have, if you price 10-15% under similar properties you may get a few viewings.

As ccc said Edinburgh is down 8% from peak 228 June07 to 210 March08 (ESPC) and will probably go YoY negative by June 08.

You see many of us here are on the coal face, we live in Edinburgh and we can see what is happening to the market. We dont have to resort to reading the Scotsmans biased crud for our impartial property news, unlike you of course. Maybe that is where you have developed your blinded head in the sand view.
46

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 16:53:46
#43 yeah im drowning in fear mate, with tenants paying me a nice rent every month.
47

parks is colin nish,

cape town 04/06/2008 16:57:15
perhaps my comments directed at liz were over the top and i am sorry for that,but she replies with the same post no matter the article on property.
48

Geed,

04/06/2008 17:01:31
@48 Dave, b*gger the rent mate, what is your current yield or were you relying on capital gains?

You still havent answered my question; How do you suggest the agents are going to make any money when in your words "sales have stopped"?

49

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/06/2008 17:06:55

So many people with so little idea about what actually happens on a speculative investment market.

Parks in Colin Nish at least understands that markets rise and fall. The only really important point in the cycle is when you buy.

If you purchased a property 5 years ago you not only have a home but a very good property for much less than the current rental market. If the property prices continue to stagnate then more people will avoid purchasing so they will rent. There are no social housing available to people with jobs so the rental properties will be in high demand. the proepty market in the UK was over inflated and required cooling and adjustment.

5% per year is still a Return on Inverstment of 33% per year on a Loan to value of of 85%. Still sound investment and unlike other types of investment bubble property is a fixed asset. It can be rented regardless of values to provide and income. This does not happen on Stockmarkets.

As for the credit crunch this is much more about banks profiteering now than a lack of funding. The pressure from US capital injections provided competition to the UK banks bringing down prices. This stopped and now there is little competition they are back to robbery.

I too am waiting to purchase more property but I will not bother until the market hits bottom at which point I will be buying for the long term 30 years for retirement. Unlike many of the public sector workers I do not have the luxury of a Super An pension for my retirement.

If I have 5 x 2 bedroom flats 100% paid off by retirement I will receive a monthly income of £2500 in todays money plus I will own the assets which will be passed on to my children after side stepping IHT.

Since 1940 house prices have doubled every 9.2 years without fail. Sometimes too fast sometime too slow but on the whole the best and safest investment you will ever make.

alternatively you can trust the labour government to put provision in place to ensure a decent pension fo
50

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/06/2008 17:07:49
Alternatively you can trust the labour government to put provision in place to ensure a decent pension for all. NO! just for politicians and public sector workers. Pension planning is beyong all politicians as there are no quick fixes.

In 10 years I will have no mortgage. No rent to pay and a lovely house. You will still be paying higher and higher rents.
51

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/06/2008 17:17:02
There is one real area of concern in the housing market is for the people of London and South of England. If I had purchased a 1 bedroom flat for £450K my backside would be twitching.

Ask yourselves this.

Are the numbers of people coming to the UK rising? Yes
Are they able to purchase property? No
Do we have housing waiting list for social housing? Yes
Are many first time buyers/couple still desperately trying to get onto the property market ? Yes
Do we have enough houses at the moment to meet the demand? No

The economics of the situation will stablise the market while wage inflation catches up.

Yes there will be many amatuers who will fail because they watched to many programs on TV about becoming a property millionaire. But the experienced investors take this in their stride.


52

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/06/2008 17:22:40
#50 Geed - I personally make no profit on any of my flats. Instead I run them tax neutral. My yeild is 0% year after year and quiet deliberately.

The trick is to ensure you keep the interest payments up high enough to ensure the rent does not make a profit after other deductions. This is achieved by raising the balance on the mortgage but still keeping hold of the money you released in your low risk investment fund. Wait for the down turn. Purchase more property. Wait for the rise sell to idiots who follow the masses. Sell to them while banking the profits after Tax.

53

techpunk,

04/06/2008 17:48:42
Jock MacTamson, you ARE John Brown, aren't you?
54

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 04/06/2008 17:58:54
#55 - Techpunk

No I am not. I just share his experience and understanding rather than the wishfull thinking of the communist posters who want everyone to be equally p1ss poor and living in social housing and totally reliant on the state.

As history has shown Socialism works very well and Capitalism failed. NOT
55

ccc,

04/06/2008 18:19:08
#56

I think you are getting some of us very wrong. I am far from a communist. Quite the opposite. However a roof over your head is a basic requirement so should not be ruined by a purely speculative market. ( What has happened over the last 10 years)

As for property as an investment it is, as you say, not bad long term. The stock market however has ALWAYS outperformed it over the long term. By a massive amount.

But hey I am sure a savvy investor like yourself knows this.....

And personally when it comes to an investment I would rather worry about a little bit of paper than whether someone is trashing my house or not.
56

ccc,

04/06/2008 18:22:09
#56

"As history has shown Socialism works very well and Capitalism failed"

And by the way please explain why wanting housing to be a reasonable price is in any was socialist or communist ? I won't hold my breath....

PS. Long term houses are between 3 and 4 times the average income. At present in Edinburgh that is about 7 times. The only way is down. A LONG LONG way. But again being a savvy investor you of course already know this. :)

57

techpunk,

04/06/2008 18:39:55
well, you speak very similarly. :)

as for John himself, he is one of the most knowledgeable agents in edinburgh. i'm not saying i personally agree with all of his views, but to hear some of the snipes towards him, for voicing his very considered opinion, defies me.

there are one or two people here (well one really bad one!) who are obviously waiting for the backside to fall out of the edinburgh property market, for whatever their reasons and, it seams, are looking forward to a good old gloat when (if) it does.

maybe they are looking forward to seeing overstretched families (be it from their own fault or not: another argument) living in B&B's?

i think at least John Brown puts forward some positive comments for thought. a mile away from some of the catty drivel that's been posted earlier.
58

ccc,

04/06/2008 19:06:10
#59

John Brown is clearly talking out of his backside.

And yes some of us are waiting for the backside to fall out of the Edinburgh housing market. For anyone who has bought a house TO LIVE IN within their means that will not be a problem. For anyone wanting to buy a house for the first time that will be a great thing. For anyone wanting to move up to a larger house that will be a great thing.

The ONLY PEOPLE who will have problem with it are those who are only involved to make money. Nae luck. They have had the good times. They can now have the bad.

The below comment by Mr Brown is perhaps the most delusional I have ever read:

"Mr Brown are to make a second property free of capital gains tax"

If you cant see how that is completely ridiculous there is no point talking to you.

Good day.
59

ccc,

04/06/2008 19:08:41
#59

"who are obviously waiting for the backside to fall out of the edinburgh property market, for whatever their REASONS "

Eh my reason is simply this. To live in a place where the average person can buy the average house and not by shoved out of the market by greedy desperado's who think property 'only ever goes up in value'

Tell me what is wrong with that reason....


Good luck in doing that. Because you cannot.

60

Daniel Salaman,

NICOSIA CYPRUS 07/06/2008 00:18:42
Have you ever thought that house prices in Britain are stupid? The average price now days is around 160.000 to 200.000 pounds. Houses in this bracket are nothing realy special, they are houses for naive and silly Byers. Britain has to many victim buyers, who are more than ready, and who are so very stupit and hopeful to be moving up the ladder. The question is very simple who are those who realy move up the ladder?? Not the poor that's for sure. Poor people bye only one house and if the house goes up in price , they will never enjoy any profit, because to get the profit they will have to sell their roof which covers their heads. The property busyness is for the CAPITALISTS who can afford to buy a number of properties and to sell them at much higher prices at any given time that their investment pays them best. At this present moment the property CAPITALISTS are waiting for house prices to go down to the maximum, so to re-enter the housing Market. First time buyers should not enter the market right now, as houses are expected to keep dropping for some time to come. House prices throughout Britain are considered to be quite high at the moment in spite of the fact that they have gone down by something like 20% to 30%
61

Cherryscone,

Scotland 09/06/2008 20:44:36
CCC, why make such illiterate, ill informed and illogical statements? So sad to see you on a site such as this, lowering the tone and being down right unfortunate. No one wants to read your views, you are rude and have shown yourself to be ignorant. I am amazed that you are able to string a sentence together. I suggest, going forward for your obviously needed development, you STOP USING CAPITAL LETTERS- just not needed in text such as this.

CCC, you are the fool and most people have had a good laugh at you, now crawl back into your hole and stay there.
62

Cherryscone,

Scotland 09/06/2008 20:47:05
Thank you Techpunk for saving the day- finally someone with a brain and willing to use it.
63

Housenatters,

edinburgh 13/06/2008 16:53:41
Hopefully the common sense of some of the comments stated in the peice may have dawned on the clearly non effected parties as actualy pretty sound. stamp duty -yes do something, MIRAS -yes do something, on CGT on second homes -think what was being said-

if you are already a property owner and you meet someone who also is paying off a mortgage why should you when you get married have to loose a status for one of the parties as a principal private dwelling house- if you select to keep a property and let it out you get a capital gains tax bill.
what was said was the second property in such circumstances should be tax free. You can of course not get married , let it out and live together and let out the other without telling..Cheating HMRC; but that seems fair I suppose to some of the parties who have commented - but who pays for you.. please the market is in trouble and a few well considered thoughts now echoed by others a week later in the Press shows this guy knows what is going on and offers a some good thoughts to sensible ears, the clothed ears will never take heid.


 

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