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Hoy attacks 'ridiculous' plan for Scottish Olympics team

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Published Date: 25 August 2008
FLYING THE FLAG: Chris Hoy taking part in the closing ceremony of the Beijing Olympics
SPORTING legend Chris Hoy has slammed SNP proposals to create a Scottish Olympic team, branding the idea as "ridiculous".
Edinburgh's four-time gold medallist said he would not have secured his Beijing cycling hat-tick if he had not been part of a British team.

However, SNP Lothians MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville insisted there should be a separate Scottish Olympic team.

She said: "Chris Hoy is entitled to his own opinion and he has clearly done a fantastic job at the Olympic Games, but I think a Scottish team is still important and I would support the idea."

She said other home countries could decide whether to enter separate teams into the Olympics, but stressed there were examples of small nations like Scotland doing well at the Games.

She said: "People have to look at what level they want to represent their country at."

Hoy yesterday dismissed calls from sports minister Stewart Maxwell for a devolved team, stressing major funding would have to be pumped into the country's sporting scene before a Scotland team could even be considered.

Speaking in Beijing, Hoy said: "Before there are any discussions of Scotland going it alone at the Olympics, he would have to look at the facilities and the resources that have been put into Scotland in the first place.

"At the moment we don't have an international facility for cycling and we don't have the coaching structures in place. In fact, we don't have anything in place, so the whole idea is ridiculous.

"I wouldn't have three gold medals hanging round my neck if I wasn't part of the British athletic team. I'm a Scottish athlete in a British team, and I'm proud to be a British athlete."

Hoy has not lived in Scotland for nine years as there is nowhere for him to train.

Instead, he must live in Manchester, home of the National Cycling Centre, where there is one of only two indoor velodromes in the UK.

Simon Clegg, British Olympic Association chairman, attacked Mr Maxwell's call, pointing out that Scottish athletes would have won two fewer medals if they had been part of a separate team - Hoy in the team sprint and Katherine Grainger in the team rowing.

Hoy began his career at the Capital's Meadowbank Stadium Velodrome which is earmarked for demolition by the council.

Today, his uncle, Derek Hoy, said his nephew would turn down a knighthood – expected to be bestowed on the cyclist – if it meant the facility could be retained and refurbished.

He said: "Given the choice of saving Meadowbank or getting a knighthood, he'd choose Meadowbank in a flash. It means so much to him.

"The facility has a great international reputation. If you lose Meadowbank, you lose the reputation as well and that will be extremely sad."

Portobello High School teacher Eric Easton today also backed calls to save the cycling facility . He said: "The velodrome needs a little TLC, but it is loved and my pupils can see the facility is good enough to take them to the top.

"I would love to be able to take more groups of pupils there and introduce them to the sport."





Star lined up by cereal firm for adverts
TRIPLE Olympic gold medallist Chris Hoy is set to become the new face of Scott's Porage Oats, as the company revealed it wants to sign up the cyclist.

The firm believes that Hoy has all the ingredients to star in their adverts.

A source at Scott's parent company Quaker reportedly said: "We think Chris would be great as the next face of Scott's Porage Oats.

"He is strong and healthy, good-looking and a Scottish hero — he's the perfect icon. It's not at boardroom level yet but we're certainly keen to get him signed up if he's interested."

The company jazzed-up their advertising a decade ago when actor Rory McCann became the face of Porage Oats.

A Scott's spokeswoman said that Chris would be a great ambassador for the cereal.

PR guru Max Clifford has revealed he has been asked to represent the 32-year-old.

Mr Clifford also told an assembled crowd at the Edinburgh International Television Festival that Hoy was more deserving of fame than many of the reality TV stars he represents.

He said stars such as Kerry Katona and Jade Goody were merely desperate for fame, whereas Hoy and his fellow Olympians had real talent.

He said: "Chris is a dream. He's an outstanding athlete. It will be very easy for him to earn £1million every year for the next four years."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 August 2008 3:39 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Chris Hoy , Cycling
 
1

Victoria Ian,

25/08/2008 12:26:53

Hoy is absolutely right.

Why even waste time talking about a Scottish team as it will never happen! very boring topic.

2

Cappo Del Monte,

25/08/2008 12:32:44
#1Is it as boring as your lot winning the champions league, or even signing world class players, or listening to mad vlads lies?
As for hoy he is entitled to his opinion, but he can ride for engerland next time as hes as much scottish as his m8 nanny broon fae fife
3

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 12:35:10
I am proud of being Scottish but I agree with Chris Hoy. At the moment we are still part of the United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland and I am proud to be so. This will, I know, not go down well with many. But I am afraid I don't really think that Scotland can go it alone. The SNP keep going on about "Scotland's oil". That's fine, but the oil won't last forever, what then? There isn't a big enough population in Scotland to support a defence force or any of the other things a modern nation requires. It would be nice to do without these things but you have to live in the real world, something the SNP are incapable of doing.

And as for giving Chris Hoy a knighthood... I think he is deserving of it but for it to be mooted by Alex Salmond... What he seems to want is a kind of "pick and mix" independence where you accept the things you like about the Union and reject those you don't. You either independent or you are not, you can't be both. So come on Alex, time to join the grown ups.
4

Jock's blog,

25/08/2008 12:35:59
Visit the Save Meadowbank website to see a video produced by Edinburgh racers featuring Chris Hoy’s appeal for Meadowbank to be saved.

http://www.savemeadowbank.org

You can also sign a petition to the Scottish Government urging them to invest properly in sports facilities.

http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/view_petition.asp?PetitionID=260
5

John south of Soutra,

25/08/2008 12:38:31
is there no other news to print, this was already in the scotsman now it's in the news.
What actually said was - Speaking in Beijing, Hoy said: "Before there are any discussions of Scotland going it alone at the Olympics, he would have to look at the facilities and the resources that have been put into Scotland in the first place.

"At the moment we don't have an international facility for cycling and we don't have the coaching structures in place. In fact, we don't have anything in place, so the whole idea is ridiculous.

Therefore my reading of his comment is that it's ridiculous to suggest this just now because we don't have facilities, not that it's ridulous to have a scottish team.

The question that should be asked by the journalists is why don't we have the facilities, why do people like hoy have to go to england for good facilities but they are trying to make political capital out of him.

This newspaper is becoming like the old Pravda
6

,

25/08/2008 12:40:39
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7

Unimpressed one,

25/08/2008 12:46:06
Scottish Olympic team - right. Go from 4th to 4th bottom of the medals table overnight.
8

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 25/08/2008 12:52:25
God help us all if the SNP end up governing an independent Scotland. They are nothing but backward, inward looking cretins who only seem to have an anti-England agenda.
9

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 12:52:43
We would do ok with anything that involved neds, smoking or drinking? Or may be we could have a chinese take away race or a tram race
10

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 12:54:04
...or a race to the bookies or maybe all the mums that can't get on to the busses could look at starting a pram race
11

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 12:55:08
...or dominos or puggies or something to do with traffic cones or traffic wardens
12

Spout,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 12:55:54
#9 - spot on - and we can be assured of gold in "who ate all the pies" - with Salmond being a prime contender.
13

Cappo Del Monte,

25/08/2008 12:56:35
#8That comment coming from someone who admits to supporting the jumbo's, lol, that sort of says it all, have to be a liebour supporter since all you every listen to and believe are mad vlad's lies lol
14

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 12:57:30
12

Pie Rickshaw
15

Hamish Scott,

25/08/2008 12:59:32
Hoy attacks 'ridiculous' plan for Scottish Olympics team

No he doesn't - not if you read the article rather than the misleading headline. In the article itself Chris Hoy rules out a Scottish Olympics team 'at this stage', and in specific regard to cycling, because of the lack of facilities in Scotland. Ask Chris Hoy again in 2014 when we have a new National Velodrome in Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games.
16

Paddy McGuire,

25/08/2008 13:01:37
We could always invent something to be world proud off....something like, Domino Rally, Mouse Trap or even, Weggie Slinging
17

Victoria Ian,

25/08/2008 13:01:54
#2 I'm a Hibs fan mate so it's unlikely that I'd listen to Vlad. Keep that chat for the football forums you orange picking f*d.
18

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:03:39
We need 'Gin' the dog of 'Britains Got Talent'
19

JJH,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:04:38
Well said Chris - when they take away the training facilities they lose the right to demand a Scottish Team.
20

Paddy McGuire,

25/08/2008 13:05:03
18

or we could dig up Shep the Dog...He'd pull the 'Gin' down a peg or two!
21

,

25/08/2008 13:05:39
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22

,

25/08/2008 13:05:57
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 13:06:17
I'm a diehard Nat, but all that Chris Hoy is saying here - and this is something I agree with - is that at the moment we don't have the adequate standard of facilities. Why would we? We have no history as an independent Olympic nation and we've had three hundred years of being told 'Sorry your not good enough to play with the big boys'. That's why investing in Meadowbank is so important. He is not, to my mind, criticising the idea of a Scottish Olympic team as ridiculous, as this newspaper would have you believe.

1) I beg to differ, as do many other folk in this country who support independence and self-determination for their nation. This is an important issue and I am determined that independence and an olympic team for Scotland do happen!
3) The scottish cringe as I live and breathe! What absolute garbage. This is the inane nonsense that we Nats have to contend with all the time. You say you are a proud Scot but then you say we aren't good enough to be independent. Countries like Ireland, Denmark, Iceland can be independent, can send teams to compete in Olympic games, can afford their own defence forces, yet for some unspecified quirk of nature we Scots cannot. You do not appear to me to be very proud of being Scottish. Aren't you kind of kidding yourself?
Also, Alex Salmond has been quite consistent in stating that he wants to end the political union but maintain the Union of the Crowns. As a republican I don't agree with him but I believe that he is consistent. That's not 'pick n mix', but going back to the way we were prior to 1707.
7) Yes I would prefer for my country to be '4th bottom', as you state in your deliberately disparaging way, rather than compete under a flag I don't believe in and a national anthem I detest.
One final point - The 'Scotsman' as usual takes the Nat-bashing line with this story. What people need to understand is that if you buy this newspaper you are paying for the benefit of having anti-Scottish propoganda rammed down your t
24

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:07:40
...shirt
25

,

25/08/2008 13:10:08
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26

Paddy McGuire,

25/08/2008 13:13:33
That dog needs a serious talking to. She's got far too big for her paws. Anyway, A what was this story about again?
27

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/08/2008 13:14:15
The bottom line is that most people have seen through this blatant attempt by the Nats to politicise the Olympic success of Team GB. Sadly this is par for the course as far as Salmond and his crew are concerned - take every opportunity to bang on the independence drum, never mind the reality or the truth.

Brown isn't much better - a little, but not much - in his call for progress on GB football team. Both of them should keep their backsides out of sport, and stop using these Olympics to score political points.
28

Paddy McGuire,

25/08/2008 13:14:43
25

the olympic football team. there you go, I've started........
29

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:14:50
we could have spot the jakey at bristo square or guess which roads are currently being dug up
30

Paddy McGuire,

25/08/2008 13:16:07
How's about a marathon around the tram network. That way, we wouldn't have to get the council to divert the roads!
31

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:16:49
or just a marathon bar race
32

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:20:18
I'm gonna do some work now, but I will be back with some more fabulous ideas later on...
33

Hamish Scott,

25/08/2008 13:22:10
"Paddy" and "Frank" (who is actually a Scotsman 'journalist' and that is not his real name) - You two would get gold in the team idiocy event.
34

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 13:24:32
Thanks Hamish....you talk alot of sense
35

THE BPRENTICE,

25/08/2008 13:24:42
When Andy Murray was a bit younger, he could have done with taking a leaf out of Chris Hoy's book.
36

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:31:35
Sportsmen and women in general kiss badges and pledge undying loyality to whichever team they are currently playing for (until a better offer comes along).
37

Gillie,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:34:12
7,8 and all the rest that think Scotland could not do itself any credit at the Olympics, the same bunch did alright in the last Commonwealth Games against countries that competed in these Olympics, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, England and half of Africa, you lot are without doubt a bunch weak minded fearties, we've been told we can't do this and can't do that, get a grip you spineless mannequins.
38

eric,

Lothian 25/08/2008 13:35:35
Wonder if chris will feel bit sheepish when Glasgow names the National veladrom after him!
39

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:38:14
Gordon Brown refused to attend opening ceremony but now that some medals have been won is milking Team GB for all its worth as part of his Scotland is British campaign.
40

Gillie,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 13:44:06
Frankie and Paddy, has got a ring to it, undeniably a comedy turn.
41

Tynietiger,

25/08/2008 13:49:46
Time for all football fans to protest at Gordon Brown's stupid suggestion for a Team GB football team at next olympics. It will mean the end of Scotland's national side as corrupt officials in FIFA cannot be trusted.
42

Calum10,

25/08/2008 13:55:09
Chris Hoy should apologise for his "ridiculous" comment. If there wasn't a Scotland team competing at the Commonwealth Games there would be no velodrome in Edinburgh for him to become a world beating cyclist.

Chris Hoy should aplogise to the people of Edinburgh who built the velodrome in 1970 for the Commonweath Games.

Chris Hoy should apologise to the people of Glasgow who will build in a state-of-the-art velodrome for Commonwealth Games in 2014.

Chris Hoy should apologise for insulting his own country which has supported him throughout his career.

The only thing "ridiculous" is a Scot masquarding as something he is not. Chris Hoy is certainly NOT a goodwill ambassador for Scotland.
43

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

25/08/2008 14:00:09
We could give The SNP a wooden spoon for this idea but they'd just use it to stir up more trouble.
44

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/08/2008 14:01:14
#42 You arrogant, small-minded person. Hoy has nothing to apologise for - he gave an honest opinion, and he has far greater right to judge than you do. His opinion did not denigrate Scotland in the least. Just because someone disagrees with Saint Alex doesn't make him anti-Scots!
45

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 25/08/2008 14:07:52
42#

I suspect that you are a member of the SNP

The fact is that Chris Hoy would have not have won the two team golds if Scotland had a separate team.

46

Cappo Del Monte,

25/08/2008 14:10:17
#17

Sorry I thought you had some knowledge of Hearts and football, but now I know you are a hibee, my appologies as obviously that cant be correct.
As usual lowering the tone to name calling highlights the lack of ability to have a sensible discussion and shortage of the grey matter
47

R_K_C,

25/08/2008 14:14:02
#42 the velodrome was built for the 1986 Commonwealth games. Chris Hoy started cycling there but he had to move to Manchester to get the facilities he needed to become a world beating cyclist. He is an excellent ambassador for sport in Scotland and the UK generally.

As with #23 and #37 you are taking the usual cyberNat line that anyone that doesn't want independence is unpatriotic/has an inferiority complex etc. Fortunately, you don't get to decide who is or isn't truly Scottish. Many of us are proud to be Scottish and British at the same time.
48

Calum10,

25/08/2008 14:14:20
#44 If Scotland did not compete as a separate country in the Commonwealth games Chris Hoy would not be winning medals for Team GB. No Edinburgh velodrome - no Chris Hoy (that is something that Hoy himself has publicly stated).

Chris Hoy should withdraw the "ridiculous" comment and apologise, otherwise how can he compete for Scotland in 2010 Commonwealth Games without himself looking 'ridiculous'.
49

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/08/2008 14:17:20
#50 Did you even read what he said? Oh it's not even worth it. You are nothing but a knee-jerk Nat, not prepared to accept valid criticisms of anything Saint Alex says.
50

,

25/08/2008 14:17:50
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Reason:
51

Tynietiger,

25/08/2008 14:21:04
It was the Labour Council which ran Edinburgh for last 23 years that failed to maintain or upgrade the Meadowbank Velodrome. Now it is cheaper to build a new covered one at another brown field site.
52

tomias,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 14:23:31
Professionalists running wild- it'll be football next mark my words.
De Couberton- old goat.
Banish the Olympics bring on the World Championshiops simple professional drug takers.
53

Calum10,

25/08/2008 14:24:10
#51

No Scotland Commonwealth team - No Chris Hoy.

No Edinburgh Commonwealth Games (1970 & 1986) - No Chris Hoy.

No velodrome at Meadowbank - No Chris Hoy.

Chris Hoy has insulted all those Scots who strive to see Scotland compete internationally at the highest levels of sport and who have supported him through-out his career. Until Chris Hoy withdraws his "ridiculous" comment and apologises he should be considered for the Scotland team in 2010 Commonwealth Games.
54

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 14:24:20
Seriously some of you nationalist morons need to get out more or something, I dunno can you start some hobbies - cycling maybe?

Just because Mr Hoy has spoken in favour of the UK team you all seem to think he has committed some kind of crime. What on earth does he have to apologise for?!

I hope he never reads some of the more moronic statements on these message boards which are belittling him and his acheivements just because he has the sense to realise that his (and others) best hopes of doing well in cycling are sticking with the winning GB team.
55

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/08/2008 14:24:21
#53 Blah blah. It is the current SNP/Lib Dem administration which took the decision to fudge the Meadowbank/Sighthill issue, spend almost as much money but get far less for it. When will the SNP start taking responsibility for the decisions they have made, and stop blaming the last lot for everything?
56

Nai,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 14:28:33
Good to see someone with a bit of common sense prepared to speak out. And for once, becuase he's well respected, the SNP can't just slap him down with some bullying remark about it not being his place to comment about it.

It would take a lot more than just building a velodrome in Glasgow to secure cycling success for an independent Scotland - all those other countries that got well and truly thrashed by British cyclists have plenty of velodromes to train it. It's the expert coaching team, and all the support that comes with that, that have helped GB cyclists achieve their full potential. They come at a cost (£5m a year for the cycling guys alone) that Scotland would need to find. Considering the current administration seems to be struggling to fund the essentials like new schools, waste management and recycling schemes, a new road bridge, I doubt the cash would be there for something as frivilous as a man on a bike...

Besides, just because you don't like seeing scots wrapping themselves in a flag you detest (got something against red?), it doesn't mean that they, or a large proportion of other scots, have some deep-set pyschological issue about it. In fact they seem to be quite proud of it all. God, that must hurt, eh?
57

Liz,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 14:28:49
#23
"we've had three hundred years of being told 'Sorry your not good enough to play with the big boys'. "

So Scotland has had absolutley no sucess in sport or anything else for the past 300 years?! Those nasty English have prevented Scotlands top sports people from performing havent they! (the fact that most of them leave Scotland for England at the first sniff of success should tell you something - maybe they get fedup of the small minded pettyness that people like you encourage at any opportunity)
58

R_K_C,

25/08/2008 14:33:47
#55 - equally, no Manchester velodrome, no Chris Hoy.

And in any case he's right, the idea is rediculous because apart from anything else we're not eligible to enter the Olympics as Scotland, whether you like it or not.
59

Spotty Geek,

Anti SNP 25/08/2008 14:35:09
Liz 60#

Did you not read my comment 45?

Without the English cyclists Chris Hoy would have not won the two pursuit gold medals.

So Scotland would have one gold medal, not three
60

Arrow,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 14:35:27
perhaps all of the Team GB chat above might be tempered when it is realised that when the Chinese announcer was intrducing the National Anthem for Great Britain he referred to "Ying Guo" which i understand is Mandarin for "England". apart from the plonkers in England who fall into the same category that's anther 1.5 billion people who thinkg England and GB are one and the same.
so in effect all the GB athletes were representing England!!
61

Gerry McGuigan,

Dundee 25/08/2008 14:36:37
The Irish who "ripped apart the Uk" in my father's lifetime, sent a team to the Olympics.One of the BBC commentators enthused about them when she "sawr" them at the closing ceremony. Does Chris Hoy call them "ridiculous"? Is Chris opposed to Scotland having its own team at the Commonwealth games? There is no reason why we cannot have training facilities as the Norwegians have.
62

Calum10,

25/08/2008 14:38:14
If HongKong (now a part of China) can legitimately enter an Olympic team what is stopping Scotland from doing so?

The answer is NOTHING. Under IOC rules Scotland already qualifies.
63

Calum10,

25/08/2008 14:44:35
Chris Hoy should apologise for using the word "ridiculous" when he owes his entire career to the legacy of Scotland being able to compete at and host the Commonwealth Games.

If Chris Hoy won't apologise then he cannot be considered for the Commonwealth Games in 2010.
64

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 14:52:04
#23 I am extremely proud to be Scottish, but am equally proud to be British. The Union has served us well for the past 300 years or so. It hasn't all been good, Maggie Thatcher years, etc, but as a United Kingdom we have the strength that doesn't come from being independent. We just don;t have the resources or the population to sustain it and no amount of waving the saltire will give us those resources. I kid my partner on about independence, he is a member of the SNP. Its a lovely romantic notion, but that is all it is. We are far better being a United Kingdom and so far, from what I have seen of that lot at the foot of the Royal Mile, I have no reason to change my views.
65

Calum10,

25/08/2008 15:01:54
#68

Perhaps Chris Hoy would feel more comfortable in riding for England from now on, because how can he ride for the 'ridiculous' Scotland team in Delhi?
66

Spotty Geek,

Wauchope Street 25/08/2008 15:03:18
64#

Are you Barry's faither?

With Republic of Ireland being a separate nation they always do poorly at Olympics, particularly at team sports, because they don't have strength in depth, like team GB.

Take the latest poor tally of one silver and two bronze, all by boxers - this is what would happen to an independent Scotland team
67

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/08/2008 15:07:49
#70 I think your indignance has completely disabled your reading ability. Go back and read what he said. He made perfect sense, and at NO time did he call the Scotland Commonwealth Games team "ridiculous". In fact he made no reference to that team at all.

68

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 15:10:08
#69 I agree - we don't need to tinker with things. I was against the Scottish Parliament - as far as I can see all it has done has been to cost a lot of unnecessary expense for a lot of blaws as my mother would have called them. They should tell Richard Branson to get down there, there's enough hot air down there to take him round the world twice!
69

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 15:14:41
#63 - Need a sightly better reason to opt for breaking up the UK than the fact that some foreigners don't understand the difference between "English" and "British" maybe?

Or maybe not. Gnats have distorted priorities at the best of times - mature politics is about a bit more than picking fights with the English at every available opportunity.
70

amother,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 15:19:38
to the true son of SCOTLAND #23,
well said thank you
71

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 15:19:56
#74 I agree - it is education that is needed for the whole of the UK and a bit more tolerance on all sides. And as for Alex Salmond well he smiles whenever he opens his fridge door (the old ones are the best!)
72

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 15:22:35
#23 & #75 Being bigotted against the English does not make you a true son of Scotland. I like to think that I am a true daughter of Scotland although I married an Englishman who would rather live in Scotland than England strangely enough! I love my country and I am proud, as I have already said, to call myself both Scottish and British.
73

,

25/08/2008 15:25:43
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74

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 15:27:02
60, 77) No, it was actually you who mentioned the English, not me. I was actually referring to people like yourselves, alleged patriots who think Scotland isn't good enough to be part of the international community. In actual fact I have a great love for the english. Why wouldn't I? I also love the French, Americans, and Australians. That doesn't mean I want my nation to be subordinated to paris, Washington or Sydney. The fact that so many Unionists resort to calling folk like me Xenophobes / Nazis / morons is astonishing. it reflects on your own small minded pettiness more than anything. Why is it OK for people in Georgia and Kosovo to have self-determination for their country, and their own olympic teams, but not Scotland?
67) here we go again. You repeat the old Unionist line, "We just don;t have the resources or the population to sustain it (independence) and no amount of waving the saltire will give us those resources." So can you please explain why Ireland / Iceland / Slovakia / Estonia / Norway / Sweden / Finland / Croatia (need I go on) are able to sustain their independence, send teams to the Olympics, when we are not? I simply do not understand the logic that is in your head. Are we Scots genetically inferior to the rest of the human race??
75

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 15:30:20
#79 No we are certainly not inferior to anyone, there just aren't enough of us. The population of Scotland is about the same as, I think, Birmingham (or one of the other large English Cities). And I wouldn't say Slovakia or Estonia could be compared to Scotland although the others might. But why change something which works? We have enough politicians in the world, we don't need any more.
76

Smasher,

25/08/2008 15:43:44
No78

Good comment.....not. You are obviously not a well educated individual. "Just the Catholics scumb4gs that want to change things". Can you expand on that comment? I just don't understand what you mean. Is it all Catholics or just Scottish Catholics? Come on, enlighten us all with your genious.
77

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 15:49:25
#79 - "alleged patriots who think Scotland isn't good enough to be part of the international community"

The usual Gnat slur - anyone who dares to disagree with us is a traitor to Scotland. Try telling Chris Hoy that he is not part of the international community.

What you can't get round your head is that many of us feel wholly Scottish, proud and self-confident in our culture without the need of another man-made border. Nationalism really is the last refuge of scoundrels.

Of course a separatist Scotland could send a team to the Olympics. We just wouldn't win any medals, that's all. The Gnats can't even find enough money to build schools and houses, or pay Council staff a fair wage, far less finance the kind of facilities needed to produce top class athletes. Economy of scale - there just aren't enough of us to make many of the services we take for granted in a nation of 55m souls viable in a nation of 5m souls.

Sure, we could be another Slovakia/Croatia/Estonia? But why would we want to be? Been there recently? All the Slovaks have gained from the split with the Czechs is the right to call themselves Slovaks. Big deal.

As a Scot, I have a bit more ambition for Scotland than the right to wave a saltire at the Olympics. You can't eat a flag.
78

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 15:55:31
#82 - well said! There is strength in numbers and we gain more than we lose from the Union (as do the English, Welsh and Irish (northern that is). Not everything is good in this country but the best thing is it is a free country and you can voice your opinion and there are ways to change things democratically. All this separatist talk is, by its very nature, divisive.

Long live the United Kingdom!
79

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 16:09:05
80/82/83 The population of Scotland is quite a bit larger than Republic of Ireland, Norway, Slovenia, Macedonia, Lithuania, latvia, Estonia, Norway, Iceland, Croatia, Bosnia & H, Moldova, and it is around the same as or slightly below Denmark and Slovakia.

So, again, my question to you guys (and I am sorry to repeat myself but still not understanding your logic) would be why would Scotland be incapable of independence or of sending its own team to the Olympics? All these other countries can and do and many of them are less wealthy than ourselves. And if you check the medal table you will observe that they can also produce medal winners.
Presumably from what you've both (genghis, linmal) said about 'economies of scale' you would support the idea of an EU team rather than a UK one?? With 500 million rather than a measly 55m we would certainly win more medals, have more money / resources. As Genghis says, 'nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'. Does that include British nationalism? or is that just the pesky Scottish one which you don't like.
80

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 16:16:57
#84 - If you would care to read my comments properly you would see that I am in favour of the United Kingdom. I do not wish to be European - although we are in the European Union. I am both proud to be Scottish and British. We are an Island nation but also part of the larger world. However, how could you have a proper Olympic Games if we were just all lumped together - we have a national identity already BRITISH and this covers the four home nations of Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales. Enough already.
81

Linda,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 16:20:41
SFA, Scotland Manager George Burley, Northern Ireland and Wales are all opossed to a Team GB football team.

Only the English FA David Beckam and Gordon Brown think it is a good idea.
82

,

25/08/2008 16:30:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
83

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 16:35:13
85 - so let me get this straight, you say there is strength and numbers, you appear to subscribe to Genghis's view when he argues that we shouldn't have a separate Scottish team due to economies of scale, and that borders are bad and nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, BUT at the same time you don't support the logical conclusion of that argument, which is merging the UK team into an EU one?

84

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 16:38:35
#88 - WE ARE AN ISLAND - AN INDEPENDENT NATION. Therefore, ergo, there is no need for us to become independent since we are already.

However, this argument could go on and on and I have no wish to perpetuate it.

All I can say is that if/when the Nationalists get their way, don't come running to me telling me I was right - I will have moved to Marbella with Sir Sean (oh sorry, I forgot, he will have moved here)!
85

Nai,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 16:43:06
A True Son of Scotland (what, unlike the rest of us who for some reason can't be doing with the posturing and who are clear not "real Scots"?) - I don't think anyone is saying that Scotland is incapable of independence or of sending its own team to the Olympics, they are just saying they don't really want it to. Believe it or not, they're quite happy with Scotland being in Great Britain and Scots representing Great Britain at the Olympics.
86

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 16:43:12
Tattie picking live from fife....
87

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 16:44:06
Setting fire to random things live from weegie land
88

Linmal,

Livingston 25/08/2008 16:47:03
P.S. - I will never leave Scotland. I had a short spell of about five years in England and couldn't wait to come home, so you see you can love your country without being separatist.
89

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 17:08:36
#90 Nai
I came across some of these people on a similar thread earlier and you're wasting your time. They're not interested in reading other opinions and unable to countenance that they might just be wrong. If you don't sing from the SNP manifesto, you're a "traitor" - or worse!!

#JWil
We certainly should have better facilities in Scotland but if the richer GB team has their top quality coaches poached from them, how would we hang on to ours?
90

,

25/08/2008 17:14:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 17:14:37
94 - I can admit my opinions are pretty solid, but you're not interested either. And you are unable to countenance that YOU might be wrong. That makes you something of a hypocrite.
92

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:17:37
ASBO league from Bonnyrigg
93

Alanski2005,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 17:18:25
Linmal: You idiot - the UK is not an independent nation - it is a state, and an extremely imbalanced one. Scotland is a nation, and has the right to self determination. You couldn't wait to come home from England, yet you can't even contemplate the idea of Scotland having it's own Olympic team. What is it with these people who are so against independence? More of our self loathing habits starting to emerge perhaps (Scotland is not capable, too small, too poor etc etc). I guess Ireland, Slovakia, Estonia, Slovenia, Czech Republic, etc, even Kosovo - shouldn't be independent either??
94

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:22:33
Fly fishing by JR Hartley
95

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:25:39
Basket Weaving by Carole Smillie
96

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:27:48
Dressing Up As Children by The Krankies
97

JG,

Fife 25/08/2008 17:29:32
#96 A true .....

Naw son, I'm no hypocrite. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just as I can disagree with it but I don't have to resort to name calling or threats (of expulsion from Scotland if I don't vote SNP the next time!!!). Good way to persuade people to come onside with you, eh?
98

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:30:23
My Wardrobe Hell by Lorraine Kelly
99

FrankGallagher,

25/08/2008 17:47:52
Me and my pies and chippies and doughnuts and frae bentos and pizzas and diet juice by Michelle McManus
100

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 18:11:49
102 / Sorry I'm confused. When did I threaten to expel you from Scotland if you don't vote SNP. Can you explain this please?
I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I would be open to changing mine if a suitably convincing argument was put to me. However, the best argument I've heard today in favour of a GB Olympic team is that 'bigger is better'. yet nobody who holds this argument will follow it to its logical conclusion, which is to disband the UK olympic team in favour of an EU one.
101

G.Campbell,

25/08/2008 18:19:57
http://tinyurl.com/5h723c

England's Chris Hoy shows his three Olympics gold medals won during cycling competition in Beijing 2008 Olympics, on August 19, 2008, in Beijing, China.
102

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/08/2008 18:38:27
#102

Free one-way coach tickets to Newcastle for the United British Loyalists. Don't forget your toothbrush.
103

D Fiasco,

Borders 25/08/2008 18:59:41
I find it disturbingly ignorant that the SNP is quite happy to pipe on about 'national' teams and yet no one has told us where all the money is going to come from to launch such an endeavour. I am sick and tired of this nationalist rhetoric - our tax burden is high enough without having to pursue pointless flag-waving exercises when money is better spent on - oh, I don't know - transit schemes that actually make bloody sense! I'm starting to think that SNP actually stands for 'supports nothing practical' since all these clowns do is pick up paycheck and blow our taxes on nonsense. Here's a thought - why don't we start fighting corruption in local councils catering to special interests and destroying small business - that would seem to be a far more useful national endeavour to make us 'different' from the rest of Great Britain.
104

,

25/08/2008 19:09:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
105

A True son of Scotland,

25/08/2008 19:25:47
108 / I agree that we have to do something about small businesses and I agree that the tax burden is high enough, but that might have something to do with the fact that both you and I are paying for the largesse of the British state, for example: the war in iraq, a global military commitment, the next generation of Trident, new aircraft carriers, ID cards, the War on Terror. I'm sick of paying tax for this rubbish. I don't pay taxes to invade foreign countries, I pay it for schools and hospitals, and, yes, sports people. So why are you blaming the SNP? The SNP has cut tax since it has been in power. And the SNP government wants an independent Scotland that doesn't subscribe to pretensions of global power. The SNP at least wants to take Scotland places, not hold it back. Clowns? Picking up pay cheques? I suggest you look in the direction of your local labour MP.
106

Reality Cheque,

25/08/2008 19:32:28
I am not Scottish, but I cannot wait to stay in an independant Scotland and be rid of both Labour and Tory misrule.
107

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 19:56:43
#110 - how has the SNP cut tax? They don't raise taxes, so what do you mean? Team GB cycling was funded by the Lottery - with the fortuitous presence of two incredibly focussed managers (Keen, then Brailsford) who nurtured the talent. That Chris Hoy (and Ross Edgar) is Scottish is a chance of fate - remember that the English Jason Kenny ran Chris a close second. Just because we (Scotland) have a couple of talented riders (and a kayaker - apols to anyone else that I've left out) doesn't make us punch above our weight. Chris is absolutely right - Scotland doesn't have the infrastructure and support system in place NOW to support an independent Olympic team. Don't bleat that this is some sort of English plot - the UK didn't have an indoor velodrome until the Manchester Commonwealth Games in 2002. Put the argument away until after the 2014 Games and we'll see if the new Glasgow velodrome brings forth new talent. Gaining independence won't change anything unless the new administration are prepared to put their money where their mouth is, which I doubt.
108

Norman Tebbit,

25/08/2008 20:08:47
If only more Scots were like Mr. Hoy.
109

patriot not nat,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 20:51:40
Norman, it probably is you because of your ability to put your point over so succinctly.

Having cast your eye over hadrian's wall you can see justhow many Scottish Alf Garnett's have assembled under Alex's banner.

The message to Hoy from loads of chauvinist bloggers today is that one of the greatest Scots in modern times should keep his nose out of public affairs and follow whatever is the sporting lead of the political pygmies who want to make Scotland the Hillbilly capital of the Western world.

Indpendent within the EU empire with multiculturalism run amok and hucksters like Donald Trump allowed to buy up vast tracts of pristine coastline, we will all dance to the tune of Salmond the EU's local sheriff and if it's not to our liking, no doubt we'll be frog-marched to the border.

The primitive reaction to Chris Hoy highlights the immaturity as well as downright nastiness currently pulsating through this land.
110

www.murraydouglas.com,

Auckland 25/08/2008 21:06:26
Absolute legend. If Scotland wanted to get its own Olympic team, then with enough money and time I am sure we could easily do so, but that's not the point. We can divide nations by culture, dialect, those who use soap versus those who don't, and 100 years from now we would then have Scotland dividing up into the "Scottish Highland Olympic Team" and the "Sweaty Glasgow Olympic Team" :-P

whats the point in continuous fracturing?

Unity is the natural way to go, I think eventually nations will combine in Unions, Federations and Alliances. There are approx 195 countries in the world.

To promote splintering, fracturing, separatism is only going to create a world with far more division and we all know what that leads to don't we?
111

Reality Cheque,

25/08/2008 21:33:49
#114. Tebitt's admiration probably owes more to Chris Hoy's mode of transport than any perceived unionist sentiment.
112

LM08B,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 21:57:40
The publicity that this has created is ridiculous. Do we see Northern Ireland or Wales bleating on about having their own teams in the Olympics? It's embarrassing. It is detracting from what is really important. Team GB did fanatastic in the Olympics. The overall success has been about teamwork, and should make us feel proud to be Scottish AND part of the Union. Let's not be fooled by political propaganda trying to convince us that we are better than anyone else. We're not.
113

Eve,

Scotland 25/08/2008 22:08:09
#117 LM08B: You appear to missunderstand the need for Scottish independence and the need for a Scotland team at the olympics.

In this day and age where obesity is rife, emganiene how many more people we could get in to sports who would be less likely to become obese if the 4 nations each had their own team at the olymipics.

That would save the NHS a small fourtune.

Please Note it's no about being better than anyone else it's about haveing and being able to give opertunitys to our people. It's also about ruling our selfs, being incharge of our own destaneys. Being able to make our own mistake s and then find our ways around these mistake to inprove the way we do things and become a better or useful country.

It's more or less about being the best we can be with no one holding us back pulling us in the opsit direction restriting what we can do. We should countrol or own limits NOT London or Westminster. BUT Scotland looking after Scotland and this doesn't mean that we don't care about the English, Welsh or any other nation. t just means we respect them and hope/ belive that they will do whats best for there country.
114

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 25/08/2008 22:18:03
Eve - I understand the sentiment - but in this day and age success inspires people. Did Eddie the Eagle send folk flocking to Hillend, Glenshee and Cairngorm? Getting folk off their fat *rs*s needs facilities and role models. For cycling, read Meadowbank and Chris Hoy.
On a sad note, I was cycling back from seeing my eldest boy at rugby training at Trinity Academy, when I saw that Cala Homes are building on part of Goldenacre playing grounds. Another sporting asset lost for ever to concrete and brick.
115

Julian.,

edinburgh 25/08/2008 22:47:16
Dunaskin,

The SNP have cut business rates. That's a tax cut.

As for Eve's point about obesity I suspect her tongue was in her cheek. Quite how we would encourage more cyclists out if Hoy had competed under the saltire I'm not quite sure.
116

,

25/08/2008 22:55:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
117

Pro Libertate,

Doune 25/08/2008 22:56:11
Question: Why is it that our southern cousins roll out Winston Churchill, etc, whenever there is talk about the EU calling the shots?
Answer: Simply, they don't want to be ruled by a foreign majority from some other state/planet.

Question: What is the difference between the Scots and our southern cousins?
Answer: Not much really, as a lot of Scots feel exactly the same:- why should be we ruled by a foreign majority from some other state/planet.

So we should have a Scottish Olympic team, or do I hear a call for an EU Olympic team . . . . ?

Not much chance of that, Gordon doesn't even want to join the Euro!!!!!!!!!!!!!

118

,

25/08/2008 22:58:02
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Reason:
119

www.murraydouglas.com,

Auckland 25/08/2008 23:20:13
#123 Angus, the Brits have been trying it on? you mean the English? you dont seem to know the difference,

The UK has been a country for 300 years now, ow old are you? get over it.

England surrendered its sovereignty just as we did in 1707, I am fine with that, Long live the Union, Long live Team GB. I have no time for seperatists who do not see the proud Scottish contribution to Britain and the world.
120

Name,

Location 25/08/2008 23:40:46
Shirley-Anne Somerville and the rest of those closet Anti-English, Anti-Asian, Anti-Black, Anti-Anyone who ain't "Skottish" SNP supporters should stop whinging.

If Scotland is independent in 2012 - fine have a Scottish team. Until them grow up you racist pigs!
121

Linmal,

Livingston 26/08/2008 09:00:55
#98 I have never called anyone an idiot on this site. Everyone, including myself is entitled to their opinion. Mine just happens to believe that we are better off staying with the status quo. Why do you think we would be better off becoming independent? Where would all the money come from to support the health service, the police, the forces(?), the unemployed, etc? As the United Kingdom of Great Britain we are much stronger. We are already a small nation, we do not need to become any smaller. All that the so-called Scottish Parliament has done is to cost us, the tax payers, more money for administering it and paying for that abomination at the foot of the Royal Mile.

Be proud of your britishness and lets make this nation great once more. We already have a proud heritage and should glory in that instead of whingeing about independence. I hope I never see it in my lifetime and I intend to live for a long, long time. But being pragmatic, I will accept whatever the eloctorate decide and learn to live with it. I just hope it is all the Nationalists expect it to be.
122

Linmal,

Livingston 26/08/2008 09:03:38
#124 I agree, the trouble with so many is that they don't know their history. Scotland took over England with the Union of the Crowns in 1603, not the other way round! When they decided to unite the Parliaments in 1707 it was a MUTUAL decision. Live with it and glory in it. It has been extremely benefical for Scotland but no-one seems to acknowledge that.
123

Burke,

Hong Kong 26/08/2008 09:25:09
Politicians, politicians and politicians. What about the idea that politics and sport should not be mixed. That should be the ideal but unfortunately politicians keep trying to get involved.
124

Linmal,

Livingston 26/08/2008 10:25:21
#128 Spot on! They wouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon quite so readily if the team had been less successful, would they?
125

Eve,

Scotland 26/08/2008 21:35:01
#120 Julian.: I don't like yer tone. Find it insulting.

For a start you've missunderstood my point.

I wasn't talking about the folk deciding to go out on a bike. It's so much bigger than just that.

I was talking about starting children young on sports giving them hope that may be one day that if they become really good then they could repersent theyre country at the olmipcics. Because there would be more opertunties availble. Alot of the places in the sports and athleets are filled up with English people. This is NOT nessary a bad thing. BUT Scotland needs to show it's tallent in these areas to and we're being deined that opertuty curently.

Encorageing people to try new things. Encourage a fitter Scotland.

If there is opertuties that one day you might achives something like going to the olmpics then it's an exsalent insentive to stay fit exersie and eat a healthy diet.

Obesity drives for people confort eating largely. You bring something postive in to there life and theres a good chance they will be less likely to confort eat.

126

Eve,

Scotland 26/08/2008 21:38:05
#124 www.murraydouglas.com: The UK is a union, The union of the crowens to be exisact!

Countries are: Scotland
England
Walse etc.

127

Julian.,

edinburgh 26/08/2008 22:33:47
Eve, I don't like your spelling.

I'm still not convinced how Hoy competing under the saltire would encourage Scottish kids to exercise. All sounds a bit vague to me.

If anything it would be worse. Our Scottish hero would only have won one gold under the saltire as the other 2 were team efforts with English cyclists. Instead of seeing a proud Scot winning the most golds any British athlete has in a games, youngsters would see a not very exciting single medalist.
128

The Scotchman,

27/08/2008 10:54:37
- Scotland can stand alone at Olympics.. says Chris Hoy. The Edinburgh cyclist rubbished reports that he thought the idea was "ridiculous".

"I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.

"If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games."

http://tinyurl.com/6apykg

Will you be printing this story?
129

D Fiasco,

Borders 27/08/2008 14:01:38
132 - I agree wholeheartedly. There seems to be a myriad of wishful thinking and theories as to why a tax-draining nationalistic endeavour is 'good' for the country - but the reality stands that it is just another exercise in sovereignty politics that will do nothing but cost tax-paying Scots yet more hard-earned cash. 110 - You claim taxes are lower...funny that, last time I checked, the SNP was talking about bringing in a local income tax where I would be paying over 3 times the amount for local services than my neighbor even though I live in a modest house and drive a car over 10 years old because I have no access to affordable housing. As far as business cuts go - I haven't seen any evidence of this in progress. What I HAVE seen (and have talked to personally) are a number of small business owners who have either been chased out of town by local councillors, pushed out by the likes of Tesco or have been forced to close their doors forever because of the tram works. I have talked to these people IN Person - so NO, I don't believe the SNP is leading this nation anymore but further into a black hole.
130

D Fiasco,

Walkerburn 27/08/2008 14:02:05
110 - and for the record, none of my local MP's belong to the Labour party.
131

D Fiasco,

Walkerburn 27/08/2008 14:14:15
130 - if you want to encourage a 'fitter' Scotland, how about lobbying your local authority and Scottish MP to spend millions on youth outreach programs instead of blowing millions on elitist athletic teams of which less than 1% of the population will benefit. I would rather see our money helping ALL children in a direct, mentoring way through local sports clubs and activity centres instead of investing in a 2-million-pound-per-head 'role model' that shows up in a strange country every four years to compete.
132

Eve,

Scotland 27/08/2008 20:15:58
#132 Julian.: And I still dislike yer tone!!
AND You should be capable of chage yer tone and stop it being so patraniseing. I can't stop being dyslexic, even if you don't like the effects.

And your really NOT reading my comment are you?

Cause if you'd even read this sentecnce which I'll highlight for you. You wouldn't have came back to me with such nonces.

"I wasn't talking about the folk deciding to go out on a bike. It's so much bigger than just that."

My comment was about sports in general NOT cycling on it's own. Which you seem to dig your heels in to. Can you only focus on one thing or aspec.

I feel sorry for you if thats the case.
133

Eve,

Scotland 27/08/2008 20:29:57
#136 D Fiasco: You've really taken my comment out of context.

I was talking about youths and children. In the way of giving them a dream of competting, which some my have lack of a dream, goal or derection so to speack. This could be the only way to incourage these people to exersise.

You seem NOT reliase that I was meaning that all or most youths having some sort of sporting opertunity open to them, regardless of wither they have the abillty or disire to be a proffesional.

And what you are talking about is roughly the way of how you get children, youths and other adults involed in physical activity. Sort of like the introduticon, that everyone needs BUT few get.

And there is money currently being ploughed in to these areas. Also there are plent of places offrening grants for organstion which incorage people to become more active.

A Scottish olymipic team would be good for moral and there would be a better chance of young Scots being pick to go to the olmpics. Than current and that was my insal point that if all the countries within the union had there own team then more Scottish, English, Welsh athelets would get the change to preform at the olmpics. There for make the dream of an athelet going to the olmipics more managable and more achiable looking.

134

D Fiasco,

Borders 29/08/2008 13:59:30
"...And there is money currently being ploughed in to these areas..."

Eve - I fear you are suffering from a number of delusions both about the current spending on social programs for youth and the realistic effectiveness of an independant Scottish Olympic Program.

In fact - if this had been a non-olympic year, I doubt your views would have held much water at all. The Olympic debate always seems strongest when the games are on - but in a couple months, I'll wager that most people including the First Minister will have forgotten about this nonsense and will have moved on.

What Scotland needs to boost 'moral' is to make kids feel useful, challenged and successful. We don't need another set of mentors - we have that in spades with Football, Rugby, Tennis, etc.

What we need is to ensure that all children (particularly teenagers) have access to all manor of organised activities year round. The expense per child is far, far less than the expense per olympic athlete, yet the returns are far, far greater.

Olympic athletes who make fleeting appearances once in every four years do little to inspire our children. What is needed are local heroes who can demonstrate that ANYONE can be successful and happy if they work hard and contribute - show kids that success for themselves IS achievable and is not measured in terms of medals, points or corporate sponsorships.

If you want to inspire Scotland's children, tell Mp's to stop spending millions on exercises in nationalistic rhetoric and put the money where it really counts (and will drive the legacy of our nation) - put it DIRECTLY towards our children.


 

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