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Donald Trump: 'The time is right. I want to get started'

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Published Date: 04 November 2008
DONALD Trump insisted last night the global financial meltdown would not stand in the way of him realising his dream of building the "world's greatest golf course" in Scotland.
Speaking from Trump Tower in New York, the billionaire tycoon said: "In many ways, this is the right time for the project. It's the right time to start thinking about jobs and it's the right time to start buying."

His confident vow came after the Scottish Government gave the go-ahead yesterday to the controversial development, a decision that sparked outrage among environmentalists.

John Swinney, the finance secretary, who approved the proposal, said it would have "a significant economic and social benefit".

But environmental groups said the damage to the local area was "too high a price to pay for the claimed economic benefits from this development".

The proposal for a £1 billion resort at the Menie Estate, near Balmedie, Aberdeenshire, was rejected in controversial circumstances by Aberdeenshire Council last year, before being "called in" by ministers.

The plan includes proposals for two golf courses, a 450- bedroom hotel and housing, as well as holiday apartments and golf villas.

The scheme faced strong local opposition, as well as from environmental campaigners, but won widespread support in the business community.

Last night, Alex Salmond, the First Minister, said: "The economic and social benefits for the North-east of Scotland substantially outweigh any environmental impact."

Mr Trump said now was the ideal time to start work on the project.

"It's sort of the anti-trend, and I have always been a believer in that and it's worked for me," he said.

"You start things when things are worst. As I have often said, because of the quality of the land we are given to work with, we will build the greatest golf course in the world."

Mr Trump has spent more than two years championing his vision of transforming the protected stretch of sensitive coastline into a dream golf resort, in the face of a massive outcry from environmentalists who claim it will destroy the "jewel in the crown" of Britain's shifting sand-dune systems.

Campaigners claim government approval of the scheme contravenes almost every planning and environmental policy and government strategy in the national canon.

The back nine holes of the main championship course will be laid out within the shifting sand dunes in the Foveran links site of special scientific interest.

But Mr Trump said last night: "We will stabilise the dunes. They will be there for ever. This will be environmentally better after it (the course] is built than it is before."

Mr Trump said he was determined to start work on the initial phase of the project – the golf courses – as soon as detailed approval is granted. "It could take a little time, but it will be nothing like the process we've been through. The big job has been done now.

"I would love to say we would be ready to play in less than two years on the golf course itself. We would like to start as soon as practicable," he said.

He insisted finance was not an issue, even with the world economy in the grip of a credit crunch. "The world has changed financially and the banks are all in such trouble, but the good news is that we are doing very well as a company and we are in a very, very strong cash position," he said.

"Fortunately, I haven't been a stock market person, so I was wasn't affected by the stock market. I don't even have a mortgage on the land. I bought it for cash, and that makes life much easier when you can do business that way."

The decision to grant outline planning permission was taken by Mr Swinney after a public inquiry.

The three planning reporters who conducted the inquiry concluded the significant economic and social benefit to be gained from the project outweighed the environmental impact.

Mr Swinney said: "This is a development which has been a long time in the planning and, from all of the indications, we know has been something to which the Trump Organisation has been seriously committed for many years.

"We are now in a position where we can see that development taking its course and what's important is that the decision I have arrived at today gives a clear signal to the international community that in these difficult economic times, Scotland is open for business."

But the decision to give the green light to the scheme sparked a renewed outcry by environmental groups and other opponents of the scheme.

Councillor Martin Ford, the former convener of Aberdeenshire Council's planning authority who controversially used his casting vote a year ago to reject the Trump application, claimed Mr Swinney's decision meant that a "billionaire's vanity project had been put ahead of the protection of Scotland's natural heritage".

Aedan Smith, RSPB Scotland's head of planning and development, said: "(We are] surprised and extremely disappointed at this decision, which we believe is wrong both for Aberdeenshire and for Scotland.

"We, and the thousands of other objectors, consider that this is too high a price to pay for the claimed economic benefits from this development.

"It appears the desires of one high-profile overseas developer, who refused to compromise one inch, have been allowed to override the legal protection of this important site, and we fear this sets a precedent which will undermine the whole protected-sites network in Scotland."

Jonny Hughes, the head of policy at the Scottish Wildlife Trust, was also disappointed. "This is a huge blow for the environment and sustainable development," he said.

However, many local politicians welcomed the scheme's approval.

Mr Salmond, who is also the local constituency MSP, said: "In tough economic times, substantial investment of this kind is at a premium. Six thousand jobs, including 1,400 which will be local and permanent, is a powerful argument. It is entirely right and proper that the resources of the country are harnessed to boost one of our great industries, and tourism is a great Scottish industry."

Councillor Anne Robertson, the leader of Aberdeenshire Council, said: "I truly believe this will bring significant benefits to the area, particularly in terms of jobs and tourism."

And Councillor Kate Dean, the leader of Aberdeen City Council, said: "This is absolutely the right decision for the area. This development will draw people from all over the world."



Swings and roundabouts on way to 'the world's greatest golf course'

• 12 JANUARY, 2006: It emerges that Donald Trump's aides are in talks with officials from Aberdeenshire Council, rumoured to be over the creation of a major leisure development in Scotland.

• 27 JANUARY, 2006: Ashley Cooper, managing partner of Trump Golf Properties, confirms plans to build a £1 billion golf course at Aberdeenshire's Balmedie and Hazlehead Park have stalled and Ireland is now a possible location.

• 28 APRIL, 2006: Mr Trump flies in to Aberdeen to announce plans to construct the "world's greatest golf course" at the Menie Estate, near Balmedie.

• 20 NOVEMBER, 2007: The application is thrown out by Aberdeenshire Council's planning authority on the casting vote of its chairman, Martin Ford.

• 4 DECEMBER, 2007: The Scottish Government calls in the application after Mr Trump announces he will not appeal the council decision.

• 12 DECEMBER, 2007: Mr Ford is removed from his post, following a vote of no confidence at a full meeting of Aberdeenshire Council.

• 10 MARCH, 2008: The Scottish Government announces a public local inquiry will begin in June at the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre.

• 13 MARCH, 2008: The parliament inquiry into the saga says the First Minister, Alex Salmond, took a "cavalier" approach to his involvement with the application.

• 14 MAY, 2008: The Trump Organisation makes changes to its plans. Mr Trump's team says the move takes account of the environmental impact on sand dunes. RSPB Scotland welcomes the change, but describes it as a mere "tweak" to the original plans.

• 10 JUNE, 2008: Inquiry gets under way. Mr Trump is called as the first witness.

• 15 OCTOBER, 2008: The public local inquiry report is received by John Swinney, the finance secretary, who announces a decision will be made within 28 days.

• 3 NOVEMBER, 2008: The Scottish Government announces outline planning permission has been granted.


How safe are our wild places?

Lloyd Austin

FIRST things first – we're not anti-development, we're not anti-golf, and we're not anti-Trump.

We believe in sustainable development to make Scotland both wealthier and greener, which is why we're surprised and disappointed with the Scottish Government's decision to allow this development to go ahead on an unparalleled, supposedly protected Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI).

The government promised a "greener Scotland" as one of the five main planks in its vision for the country. We've praised much of what they've done for the environment, including an ambitious climate change bill and sustainable flooding and marine bills. But it's hard to see just how this decision can be made in a "greener Scotland".

The sad thing is that John Swinney didn't have a simple "yes or no" decision to make. We offered up a "yes but" alternative. We commissioned a respected Scottish golf course designer to come up with a different design on the site which avoided the most sensitive land.

Unfortunately, Trump International Golf Links Scotland (TIGLS) refused to compromise throughout, or even consider our "yes but" option – and now the Scottish Government seems to have followed suit. Our alternative could have brought all the economic benefits without such massive environmental damage. By ignoring it, it appears that the government has succumbed to knee-jerk political and business lobbying.

What is the point of having a network of protected areas if they're not actually protected? Will this set a dangerous precedent where, if the scale of your development is grand enough, all of Scotland is up for grabs?

The government now has a job to win back its environmental credentials. It will need to confirm that this is a truly unique case, and not a precedent that says money talks. It will need to make clear that it does indeed value our special wild places for what they are.

The diggers will soon move in and stabilise the dynamic sand dunes at Menie, and one of the best examples of such a landscape in western Europe will be lost. The inquiry report made clear the loss of dynamism cannot be mitigated, so we can cross Foveran Links SSSI off the list of "protected" sites in Scotland.

The question for now is whether our other protected areas are safe in this government's hands?

• Lloyd Austin is the Head of Conservation Policy for RSPB Scotland.


Still a few hazards to avoid on the way to clubhouse

DONALD Trump has so far only been granted outline planning approval for his £1 billion golf resort in Aberdeenshire.

The Trump Organisation will now have to submit detailed plans for the development to Aberdeenshire Council before work can begin on the project.

That could be done in as little as three months. Mr Trump has made it clear that the first phase of the scheme will involve the construction of the two golf courses, expected to cost in the region of £10 million.

Anne Robertson, the leader of Aberdeenshire Council, said: "Before the development can proceed, further applications which contain the full details will have to be submitted to, and approved by, Aberdeenshire Council."

The reporters who conducted the public inquiry have recommended a series of conditions which should be attached to detailed planning approval.

These include the submission of a masterplan for the whole development and a detailed environmental impact assessment.

The reporters also recommend that no private houses should be built until the first phase involving the construction of the golf course and ancillary building, including the clubhouse, practice facilities and 36 golf villas, has been completed.

The Trump Organisation is also expected to be ordered to consult with Scottish Natural Heritage on a number of mitigation plans for site.

A spokesman for SNH said: "The inquiry report clearly accepts the extent of the adverse impacts the development will have on the fragile dune system, but has concluded that in this particular case this is outweighed by social and economic benefits.


More on the Trump development


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 November 2008 11:44 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

,

04/11/2008 00:06:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Nevsky,

Moscow 04/11/2008 00:10:06
Great news for the north east and for Scotland! As for 1's comments Edinburgh's legs have always been open to London haven't they?
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 00:16:16




Like our Banks it is a, 'sell-out' once again!

Yes Folks!, in a few years there wont be 'Anything' Scottish left,

Time to 'Burn your Kilts'!, and pour the Whisky in the sea!


4

thaijambo,

ben the scullery 04/11/2008 00:18:43
Are you a Liebore supporting numpty by any chance?
5

jerrymanders,

04/11/2008 00:18:53
Bet you he builds the houses first!
6

thaijambo,

ben the scullery 04/11/2008 00:20:13
comment at #5 was for #1
7

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 00:23:46
No.
8

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 04/11/2008 00:25:24
This is the best thing to happen to Aberdeen in a long time. It is just a shame that it was not approved in the first place because of a councillor who's motives must be questioned.
9

Nevsky,

Moscow 04/11/2008 00:27:38
8 Plod#

Edinburgh has been well and truly shafted by Lloyds and London this week, how does it feel to be a second rate nothingness of a city on a par with Coventry?

Meanwhile jobs coming into Scotland you slate; weird logic!


10

BTO,

04/11/2008 00:28:06
No surprise here
11

Dragonhead,

China,Dalian 04/11/2008 00:36:57
Some of the typical cloth cap brain dead comments from above.Get over yourselves.Oh! and without revenue from whatever source coming into Scotland, your working class, socialist mentality cloth caps will come in handy for begging for pennies on the street! What a pack of losers remain in Scotland.A country that once led the world in so many things.Now leads it in hanky wringing,whining and moaning!
12

BTO,

04/11/2008 08:32:30
Let me see. Salmond tried to block this. When it goes through, he says it's a great idea.

Did I miss something?
13

pf9,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 08:34:08
Salmond sold his soul for the Yankee dollar - at what cost?

#13 Go back to your cave you clown.
14

Corrennie,

04/11/2008 08:36:13
## 13 ##

'hanky wringing.....whining......moaning'

It was ever such.

These attributes (along with the victimhood mentality and 1000 chips on each shoulder) are part of the Scottish psyche.
15

overton,

balmedie 04/11/2008 08:38:35
Good news for the North East - let's get on with the project now.

The timewasting as instigated by the Lib Dems didn't work and it won't work at the AWPR Enquiry either.

Both projects are welcome and will give an enormous boost to the local and national economies.
16

11+failed,

the pans 04/11/2008 08:46:44
Marvellous! As the majority hoped common sense and democracy have triumphed in the end. That vocal minority brigade with there pathetic blend of anti-American,anti-success, anti-progress, anti-wealth notions backing poseur Martin Ford have been decisively rejected. As for these triple SI sand mounds latched on by the sad "greens" it is interesting to note that not even Aberdeen University Geology students thought them worth a visit till the controversy arose.
17

Heather B,

Anstruther 04/11/2008 08:46:48
Anyone noticed a little thing at the moment called the "Credit Crunch". Unless Donnie T has a billion stashed under that syrup of his we'll see not a ball being driven at Trumpland for a while.
18

Dave,

Western Isles 04/11/2008 08:51:58
20

He doesn't play the stock market and has gone bust a couple times before so he has learned his lesson. This is a good time for him to buy.

He has the cash but does he have the moxy?
19

BTO,

04/11/2008 08:52:29
"Silver spoon" Salmond just shrugs his shoulders...
20

Viva Victoria ,

04/11/2008 09:01:01
For once I totally agree with the SNP, this is the best thing to happen for a long time.

We can now all become toilet cleaners on minimum wage, or brass polishers, chamber maids, gardeners, car valets, kitchen hands, dish washers, shop assistants, all on minimum wage.

Any assumption that thinks Labour or the SNP voter is going to take one of these jobs rather than benefits they already claim is optimism. Benefits pay more than these cruddy jobs after you deduct tax/travel and so on.

This will not effect employment in the least, maybe displace a few custmoers from existing golf courses and hotels in other parts of Scotland, but that will be it.

If the SNP want to fix the economy, they might start by investing in science/engineering. Say, scrapping the student loans to make it more appealling? Oh wait, they already did promise that and then do nothing but chase toilet cleaning positions. Good old SNP! Going after the Labour vote at the public toilets.
21

Sue E,

Inverurie 04/11/2008 09:04:14
What on earth is all the fuss about - we are talking here about TWO GOLF COURSES and speaking of Trump as the saviour of the north-east of Scotland. What is the economic and social benefits of two golf courses. Emperor's new clothes comes to mind. Can't the high-heidyuns see that the only economic benefit will go to Trump and we will be left with a site for sore eyes in the form of an obscene housing estate, a huge hotel and blocks of flats in the beautiful wide open countryside of Aberdeenshire. At least if it all goes belly-up, the dunes will carry on sweeping over as they have always done, and will cover Trump's 'best golf course in the world' and we will be left with just a ghetto of big buildings shivering on the side of the cold North Sea. Bring it on, Donald, but it won't work in this financial climate, thank goodness!
22

Auld Holburn,

04/11/2008 09:05:08
I couldn't care if it was Trump or anybody else who proposed this development.
The North East needs to start looking areas away from North Sea Oil to sustain it's self in years to come.
Have the majority of the objectors on here been through Aberdeen city centre recently ? It's a dump.
Trumps development should help to attract other investors to the area, hotel chains, high end retailers etc which should have a knock on effect for the good of the Noth East.
In 20 years time what will be missed more, shifting sand dunes or a decent quality of life in the North East ?
23

Geoff,

sa 04/11/2008 09:05:34
Donald should get a haircut!
24

11+failed,

the pans 04/11/2008 09:07:34
6 jerrymanders,
"Bet you he builds the houses first!"

If he does he would be about the only house builder in Britain starting a new project at this time!
25

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 09:07:56
Good news but it would have been even better if it had been an industrial development.
Why are so many contributors opposed to it ? Is it just because the SNP government has managed to get a few more jobs into Scotland. Apparently all golf related jobs are on the minimum wage and lower than being on benefit after travel expenses (can we add income tax and national insurance to these deduction ?).
26

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 09:08:07
Excellent news. People before lichens.
27

Doh,

04/11/2008 09:09:36


Why didnt Trump follow the normal planning process?

He should have re-applied, taking account of the objections, like anyone else.

Just another example of one rule for the rich and another for the poor.

Not such a great day for Scotland.
28

Peter Parkinson,

St. Leonards on Sea 04/11/2008 09:12:50
Donald Trump is right we should be investing the money raised in the UK, if he's wrong and the Golf course project fails then nature in time will reclaim the land and he will be out of pocket. What to watch is further development in the area, we can live next to nature and develop projects making sure the projects are ecologically friendly also having low impact on global warming. We should have failed project funds if the project fails then he should clean up, if no other use is fould for the golf course.
29

Dick Lynas,

Glasgow 04/11/2008 09:23:11
It is not exactly uncommon to build golf courses in beautiful locations, especially where the land is not fit for much else.
Year after year I watch the Scottish Open at Loch Lomond on television and really feel quite proud of the beauty of the country of my birth. The fact that pictures of the scenery are being transmitted world-wide and attracting admiring visitors to these shores fills me with pride too.

Yet once upon a time the beauty of the area was acessible only to the midgies. So far as I am concerned, the Loch Lomond golf course has enhanced the beauty of the area, not diminished it.

So I look forward to the day when this new golf course in Aberdeen plays host to the Open.
30

Evan Owen,

Uppergumtree 04/11/2008 09:23:26
Flaming 'envirnonmentalists', the only letters in that word I would use are 'mental', can't find 'NIMBY' in it. Does Donald fancy a punt at something really juicy?
31

11+failed,

the pans 04/11/2008 09:25:30
Where are all these incensed Martin Ford sycophants who paraded their minority, pitiable, pseudo scientific caprices on these columns in the past months?
32

,

04/11/2008 09:32:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh. 04/11/2008 09:38:00
Is Donald referring to an impending haircut re.the headline?
34

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 09:38:56
The complete development is not going to happen for some time. This was in the Wall Street Journal just last week - 29 October (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122523704293478077.html?mod=googlenews_wsj):

"Donald Trump's tallest construction project ever is facing some tall challenges.

Many real-estate developers are under pressure these days as lenders and investors rush to cut their exposure to the market. But Mr. Trump's 92-story Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago, which will be the tallest building constructed in the U.S. since the Sears Tower opened in 1973, may be especially vulnerable because it's getting hit by a triple whammy of colliding forces: the credit crunch, the reversal in the housing market and weak retail sales.

The shiny glass skyscraper is one of the few that the brash Mr. Trump developed without partners. The situation also puts pressure on one of the project's major lenders, Fortress Investment Group LLC.

So far, Mr. Trump has lined up buyers for a bit less than $600 million of condo units and condo-hotel units in a residential market that has virtually seized up. Yet he owes lenders as much as $1 billion when the loans are due, according to public records and several people familiar with the project. He has closed around $200 million in sales so far, with roughly $380 million still in contract. The retail portion of the giant building is for sale, at a time of rising vacancies for retail space in Chicago and one of the worst eras for retailers in years.

People close to Mr. Trump concede that the project, which contains 486 condo units and more than 300 hotel rooms, is caught in a tough spot. Still, Mr. Trump says the building can be successful if he sells the rest of the unsold units, which he estimates have a potential value of $475 million. 'It could turn out to be a successful development depending on what happens in the market over the next two years,' he said in an interview. 'The job is on time and on budget, a
35

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 09:40:24
#41 (continued)

People close to Mr. Trump concede that the project, which contains 486 condo units and more than 300 hotel rooms, is caught in a tough spot. Still, Mr. Trump says the building can be successful if he sells the rest of the unsold units, which he estimates have a potential value of $475 million. 'It could turn out to be a successful development depending on what happens in the market over the next two years,' he said in an interview. 'The job is on time and on budget, and it's a beautiful job and will become an icon of the Chicago skyline.'

The Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago, shown as it neared completion in August, has risen as the real-estate market has fallen.
Most urgently, to stay current on the project's biggest piece of debt, a $640 million senior construction loan, originated by Deutsche Bank AG, Mr. Trump must negotiate by Nov. 1 to exercise an extension provision contained in the original loan that he took out in 2005. To extend the loan, Mr. Trump must prepay additional interest charges to Deutsche Bank. Deutsche Bank declined to comment other than to say it syndicated the loan to several other banks and that its exposure is less than $50 million. Mr. Trump is confident that the extension will be agreed upon.

Adding to Deutsche Bank's leverage in the talks, Mr. Trump agreed to a $40 million recourse completion guarantee on the loan. That means Deutsche Bank can both foreclose on the property and go after Mr. Trump personally for that amount in the event he doesn't complete the building. Mr. Trump discounts the importance of the completion guarantee and is confident that he will complete the building next year. Other than the completion guarantee, Mr. Trump has no personal recourse on the project and any problems in Chicago are unlikely to affect his other businesses.

Several people familiar with the project expect Mr. Trump to work out a deal to extend the loan. The hotel opened in January on the lower floors, eve
36

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 09:41:11
(continued)

"Several people familiar with the project expect Mr. Trump to work out a deal to extend the loan. The hotel opened in January on the lower floors, even as construction continues above. If Deutsche Bank tried to foreclose on the loan instead of extending it, some buyers may attempt to avoid closing. The project would also lose its marketing agent extraordinaire, Mr. Trump.

The issues don't end with the Deutsche Bank loan, according to loan documents. Mr. Trump borrowed $130 million in a mezzanine loan originated by a lending unit of private-equity firm Fortress Investment. That loan contains stiff terms, including a $50 million "exit fee" to be paid when the loan is due, in addition to accrued interest. A loan document says Mr. Trump could have to pay Fortress as much as $360 million, depending on how long the loan accrues interest. Combined with the Deutsche Bank senior loan, he would owe more than $1 billion in total. Should Trump fail to sell more units, Fortress would be on the hook to take over the project and could see a loss on its investment.

Mr. Trump's challenges highlight the dangers of building very tall buildings. Because they take years to build, markets can change and leave developers in dire situations. In fact, very few supertall skyscrapers have been profitable for their original developers. The Empire State Building was dubbed the "empty state building," when tenants didn't move in. The Twin Towers of the World Trade Center required heavy taxpayer subsidy to stay occupied through the 1970s and 1980s.

During the last real-estate collapse in the early 1990s, Mr. Trump was pushed to the brink of bankruptcy because he was personally on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars of debt. He later restructured his debt with the banks and worked his way back to doing real-estate deals, product endorsements and reality television.

These days, Mr. Trump adds his name to dozens of real-estate projects and other business ventures
37

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 09:41:48
(continued)

"The Chicago project is different. He has no partners, he arranged the financing, and his family is managing the construction and marketing. (In 2004, Bill Rancic, the winner of Mr. Trump's reality-television show, "The Apprentice," worked on the Chicago project for a year.)

Gail Lissner, vice president at Appraisal Research Counselors, a Chicago real-estate tracking firm, says contract signings on condos in downtown Chicago were down 72% the first half of the year from a year earlier. And the supply keeps coming. Downtown Chicago will see nearly 10,000 new condo units delivered in 2008 and 2009, a substantial portion of which haven't been presold.

Mr. Trump recently began marketing to sell the 100,000-square-foot retail space in the building, which will be the last part of the building to open, at the end of 2009. But given the wretched retail climate, and the almost complete lack of real-estate financings, finding a buyer could prove challenging. Mr. Trump's son Eric Trump, who is running the retail portion of the project, is confident the project will eventually sign leases with high-end retail tenants. He says the Trumps will sell the retail portion of the project only if a buyer presents a good price.

The 339-room hotel, of which the Trumps still own more than half the rooms, has generated revenue. The Trumps sold around 150 rooms to buyers who can choose to earn room revenue after paying Mr. Trump various fees and assessments, according to marketing documents.

But the hotel business is in rough waters as travelers cut back. Among the neighborhood's 12 luxury hotels, including Mr. Trump's, the percentage of vacant rooms has increased each of the past three months, compared with the year-earlier period, according to data provider Smith Travel Research. And revenue per available room, a common-industry measure, is down three consecutive months.

Adding to the project's stress, Mr. Trump is now in competition with his own customers. At
38

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 09:42:23
(continued)

"Adding to the project's stress, Mr. Trump is now in competition with his own customers. At least 30 buyers of the hotel units have put those rooms back on the sales market at substantial discounts to what Mr. Trump is charging for similar units, according to local sales brokers.

Local real-estate broker Andrew Glatz, of Crown Heights Realty, is representing two dozen hotel units and six condo units for resale in the Trump project. He's sold three so far. "All our units are 30% below Trump. We can't compete with his marketing, so we compete with his prices," he says. "It's the most fabulous property in Chicago. They didn't spare any expense," he boasts. His clients can afford to sell below Trump's prices because they bought their units in 2003, before Mr. Trump raised prices substantially."

39

Skip McClendon,

04/11/2008 09:43:14
Scotland for sale: offers over £1 Billion to A.Salmond & Co.

Historic day, my bahookey. Scotland already has one or two decent golf-courses to attract tourism to Scotland. No need to destroy a unique site of scientific interest to accommodate this development.

Scotland sure is "open for business". Wave enough cash in our direction, and we will happily fill Loch Ness with concrete to enable you to create a "World class" Nessie theme park.
40

subrosa,

04/11/2008 09:45:04
Excellent decision. Houses are desperately needed in the north east. Small hamlets are being over extended and the road network is horrendous.

As for the golf course destroying the environment that's nonsense. I've yet to see a golf course which does that and most enhance their environments.
41

Unimpressed one,

04/11/2008 09:45:42
"a decision that sparked outrage among environmentalists."

Great.
42

long live the supermarkets,

creating jobs 04/11/2008 09:50:29
Dear Alex,
I have this great idea for a theme park,now id like use Camperdown Park in Dundee,i am thinking about environment so we could keep the zoo there but maybe use an area of land that is just playing fields at the moment anyway it will keep the boys and there motorbikes off it.We can run it like Butlins and Pontins it will have a Golf Theme we can have chalets which we will call 'bunkers'.Any way i can go into more detail when we meet,Alex don't forget this will create hundreds if not thousands of jobs and I'm sure the Dundee public will love it.
43

Calvinist,

04/11/2008 09:54:07
Native American proverb:

Abuse nature and nature will abuse you.

44

New in Nairn,

04/11/2008 09:55:58
#48,#49. At last! Sanity. I wonder how many of the gum beaters who resist any form of development have actually been remotely close to the proposed site? Let me tell you, it rarely attracts more than a handful of visitors in a day, is minute in comparison to the wilderness of coastline between Bridge of Don and Peterhead, and a well designed course will be a significant enhancement.
Why do so many Scots just whinge for the sake of it? Must be the weather.....
45

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian 04/11/2008 10:03:15
Has Salmond played the Trump card?
46

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 10:07:37
Some years ago a small fortune was spent planting marim grass to stabilise the sand dunes along the coast north of Aberdeen. There was no outcry from the environmentalists at that time about interfering with nature.
Now apparently the golf course project will do exactly the same thing but it is now seen as environmentally friendly to leave these same dunes unstable so that they can move where the wind takes them.
Times change.
47

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 10:07:53
There is an error on that map - it does not not include the property of fisherman Micahel Forbes who has previously vowed that no amount of pressure from the Trump Organisation would persuade him to give up his 23 acres at Mill of Menie, near Balmedie. He apparently has been offered £350,000 then £375,000, including a job worth £50,000 a year at the new resort, from Mr Trump for his land but has rejected the offer.
48

The Glasgow Ranger,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 10:10:01
#53 - No,he`s been trumped by Donald.
49

Mikey,

04/11/2008 10:12:04
It would be laughable, if it wasn't so pitiful, to read all the Lieboor clones railing against jobs being brought to Scotland! You can bet your bottom dollar that if wee Joke had secured this, they would be shouting from the rooftops about how great it was!

Then again, being against new jobs in Scotland fits into the unionist philosophy of "better Scotland a wasteland than be ruled by Scots, for Scots!"

These Lieboor clones are truly objectionable little anti Scots.
50

Finnzz,

04/11/2008 10:12:26
Excellent news for the North East. Anyone who has ever visited the area will know that this development will enhance and protect it.
All those naysayers have obviously missed seeing all the abandoned, rusty cars and rubbish that presently inhabit most of the site.
Trump should however, ensure the golf is open to visitors at a reasonable rate.
51

,

04/11/2008 10:12:35
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52

Skip McClendon,

04/11/2008 10:13:54
#52 The Spook in Leith

"95% of Scots back the golf course and its great Scotland will have the worlds greatest golf course."

Really? Where did you get that figure from? I don't remember being polled.

You wouldn't be, you know, making stuff up?
53

Skip McClendon,

04/11/2008 10:16:45
Only a truly arrogant man like Trump would come to the home of golf loudly proclaiming that he is going to build "the world's greatest golf course".

I've no doubt he may well build the biggest and the brashest, but the best?

But then, of course, he probably thinks the Trump Tower is a better building that the Pyramids, the Taj Mahal, and the Sydney Opera House put together.
54

RsS,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 10:17:11
Wonder if there would have been all this fuss had the developer been our very own Sir Tom Hunter instead of some Yank.
55

Miss Dee,

Tayside 04/11/2008 10:21:18
I hate nature, support low paying jobs for foreign workers, and I hope the golf course and the town being built are too expensive for 95% of Scots. I am sure that this project will be a huge drain on public money, and that the Scots will end up giving more than they get. I couldn't be happier that Trump is coming to town, and that so many of you are suckers!
56

SEUMAS,

fearn 04/11/2008 10:25:07
Trump is one of the richest men in the world and did not achieve this status by being a clown--think about it.
57

Skip McClendon,

04/11/2008 10:31:45
#64

Yes, he's rich but that doesn't mean he has the best interests of Scotland at heart. He has the best interests of Donald Trump at Heart.
58

It's life but not as we know it,

The Ooort Clouds 04/11/2008 10:32:08
Money talks and moralaty walks. What a pity the SNP shows even fewer thics than the sleazy Labour government.

I just hope Trump gets bitten by the credit crunch and the banks tell him to go and take a hike.
59

Mallory,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 10:34:49
95% of Scots won't be able to afford either the golfing fees or the 'upmarket' houses. Trump's 'victory' is a fine example of silly politicans living in awe of puffed-up self importance and wealth.

Has Donald been affected by the market movements?
60

Calum10,

04/11/2008 10:35:42
Great news for Aberdeenshire and good news for Scotland.

Meanwhile back at Lloyds bank.................
61

Baillie Guthrie,

Caithness 04/11/2008 10:45:14
"we will stabilise the dunes"

He doesn't know much about the North Sea.

But I wish him the best. The North East will benefit.

62

Courtney,

East Molesey 04/11/2008 10:46:19
A victory for political and financial greed over common sense.
63

Clive Hamblin,

04/11/2008 10:48:44
#47 - Golf courses may 'enhance the environment ' but only for those who can afford to enjoy it. What gives you the impression that Trump and his friends will allow 'ordinary people' anywhere near it?

#55 - Well said! This is nothing short of bullying by Trump and his SNP friends. At one time, Scotland was above that sort of thing.

Makes you wonder about both parties, doesn't it?

64

57vintage,

Keith 04/11/2008 10:48:57
"democracy have triumphed in the end"

Er, no. Elected representatives (you, me, Mr Joe Public, his wife and bairns etc) voted in democratically.

On a committee representing the make-up of the political views of the area most affected by this (wait until all the Ellon and Peterheid commuters have to oput up with the cingestion as the construction of the plook goes ahead) fail to agree and tie the vote. According to all precedent the convenor uses his casting vote in favour of the status quo.

Planning procedures drawn up to ensure that all applications are examined are torn up and huge expense is charged to the public purse for a farcical kangaroo court type inquiry where the verdict has already bee decided.

Jobs? McJobs, I think.

Our elected representatives, apart from those on the Planning Committee last November have thrust their well-lubricated rears in the air and been royally rogered by a fly-boy billionaire at the first sight of his gold Amex card.

As I said yesterday:

Gloabal Capitalism 1 (Swinney pen) Democracy and Process 0.

When does the next flight for Havana leave?
65

Ffion,

in the bunker 04/11/2008 10:55:58
What would the detractors rather have? A shipyard? a cotton mill? A salmon farm? Only a cave dweller would fail to see this as the opportunity that it is. Only thing I would say to the Donald is that we already have the best golf course (s) in the World thank you. He doesn't need to come here & it would proably be easier & a lot less profitable for him to take his cash elsewhere where people would be more grateful.
66

57vintage,

Keith 04/11/2008 11:07:10
#73

I'd rather leave it as it is, since you ask.

When this was first mooted, Trump issued a blackmail threat to withdraw unless plans to have an offshore windfarm visible from Menie were torn up.

I'm all for international co-operation, but to have part of our energy policy dictated by a non-elected US businessman is a step too far.

It's been a black 11 months for democracy.
67

camster,

East Kilbride 04/11/2008 11:08:23
Yes I would like another shipyard back in Scotland and maybe a centre to build wind turbines as well. Another golf course will not fundamentally change the Scottish or even the Aberdonian economy.

Where is the contribution from Trump to the infrastructure of Aberdeen in this proposal? It already takes an hour to get through Aberdeen most of the time and adding more traffic will do little to help this.

Will this development mean that more Americans come to Scotland to play golf? If not then all the development will do is displace jobs and investments from other parts of Scotland.

In summary this is a marginal project and should have been left to the Aberdeenshire Council to resolve.
68

livilion,

livingston 04/11/2008 11:08:45
FRANK URQUHART You missed one date from your timeline, let me help fill the blank:

The Times
October 29, 2005

"Cringe – but at least travelling salesman McConnell is trying

As the First Minister returns from his trip to North America, our correspondent looks beyond the embarrassments to the lessons of selling Scotland abroad...

...the First Minister must beware of letting his desire to acquire photographs for his mantelpiece get the better of him. His visit to Trump Towers in New York where he met Donald Trump — “half man, half brand” as one observer memorably put it — became the abiding image of Mr McConnell’s trip and succeeded only in deflecting attention from the real meat: the First Minister’s attempts to win investment for and interest in the old country from the Scottish diaspora in North America..."


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article584056.ece
69

cataibh,

Over the Struie 04/11/2008 11:09:43
#6 The Falkirk labour council sold the Bo'ness people down the river when they agreed that ING would build houses before any work would be carried out on the marina. So there is nothing new as you point out.
70

John S,

04/11/2008 11:19:35
Well done the Scottish Government for attracting such a prestigious businessman like Donald Trump to invest in Aberdeenshire which will create more than 1200 jobs and generate an estimated £50 million for the economy every year.

Plus under a draft planning agreement, Mr Trump was to provide 98 affordable homes, a primary school for the area, and £500,000 for community facilities.
71

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 04/11/2008 11:23:54
Doesn't #36 realise that the Loch Lomond golf Course has gone bust and is going into administration. The same thing will probably happen in Aberdeenshire and the Trumpet will simply walk away from it all.

It is all a matter of grandstanding by the Gnats as part of a vote catching exercise prior to their defeat at Glenrothes.
72

Tarchin,

Lothian 04/11/2008 11:24:14
#64 Donald Trump is not a fool, neither is he a philanthropist he is out to make money.
He should have no trouble in building his golf course(s) and houses as there are many unemployed building workers in Scotland. After two years what then? Fourteen hundred permanent jobs, doing what? How many of the jobs will taken up by local people and how many by Eastern Europeans? How many executive jobs will be occupied by Scots and how many by Americans? What will happen to any profits which accrue from this scheme, will they be shipped back to America.
Finally, what happens if whole scheme goes 'belly up' does the Scottish government have enough resources to cover such a possibility?
73

Steve Ev,

Malta 04/11/2008 11:24:36
The sound of a Gothic style hotel already sounds like typical American tack whats happend to Scottish architects? Now a part of America in Aberdeenshire, here's to Tartan week next time
74

AlastairEwen,

Calgary 04/11/2008 11:29:10
Great news for the Polish workforce
75

Alfie the OK,

England.. 04/11/2008 11:33:57
I thought the local council had said 'No' to this. I also thought the locals weren't that keen on it also...

But who is going to take any notice of them when there is smoke filled rooms to do deals in??

By building golf courses, this pristine wilderness land is automatically downgraded to 'brown-field' - and after that? He can build tons of houses onto them to create Greater Combover-Trumpton....

People who live there will have their very own currency - the mighty Trump-dollar, and every Sunday will be set aside to worship the almighty Donald in the Combover-Trump Cathedral. And the people who live there, will be known as 'Trumpers'. They'll feel blessed, living in this land of plenty, this Garden of Trumpyness. There'll be no crime, no anti-social yobs, no drunks getting blasted on Tennents Supa Strength - just harmony, smiling, happy Trumping people all living under the reflected combovered benevolenty brilliance of the Donovator.

And instead of shaking hands, they will greet each other with a hand gesture, an imaginary motion over the top of their heads from left to right, as if putting back in place an unruly combover. They'll say "Greetings, fellow Trumper - it's great to live in the Don's own country".....

On the other hand, I can't wait to see the Donald at the opening ceremony - he'll be there, resplendent in his Trump tartan kilt, and a massively oversized Tammy screwed onto his head using only the finest rivets from the John Brown shipyard - in order to keep that legendary comb-over safe from the skirl of the Aberdeenshire draughtees....

Or the locals could just wake up and decide that they are not going to have it - and tell Trump to take his mashy niblick, his camel coat, his combover and the Trump bad smell somewhere else... (but please, NOT down here in England!)
76

John S,

04/11/2008 11:37:36
A lot of pessimistic comments here, I wish he could have invested in Prestonpans but we already have the Royal Musselburgh Golf Club plus others in this area.
http://www.royalmusselburgh.co.uk/
77

ColinMz,

Edinburgh 04/11/2008 11:42:58
Nature and the wildlife will suffer now. Only time will tell whether this development is worth that. Meanwhile, surely Mr Trump can be asked to contribute a substantial sum for the benefit of wildlife and nature elsewhere in Scotland.
78

Nevsky,

Moscow 04/11/2008 11:43:58
83 Alfie#

You will be coming up to see the sand-dunes before they dissapear of course. I doubt if you have even head of Menie before.

If you have £1 billion to invest and would like to do something different then great, let's all hear it.

He is a billionaire, just what do you know of business could be written on the back of a postage stamp i am guessing.
79

,

04/11/2008 12:04:56
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,

04/11/2008 12:22:14
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Stuntman Mike,

04/11/2008 12:27:52
What a nauseating glimpse into what the Tartan Tories are really about: fragile dune system be hanged, let's concrete over a fragile dune system to please one of our tame billionaires! Tick! Tock!
82

Arfur,

04/11/2008 12:33:18
You gets some right ejits on this site.

'SNP selling off scotland price £1 billion' - ok fair enough heres a great idea, lets do s0d all and try and attract no investment what so ever, yeh i mean there was nothing wrong with the stone age lets bring it back. I mean lets just forget about the fact that over 90% of Aberdeenshire wanted this to go ahead.

'Trump is in it for himself, doesnt give a stuff about Scotland' - and your point is caller? I didnt realise that if you wanted to start a business that you had to specify the importance of it for the country you start it in. Trump wants to make another billion then good on him, i am not going to slate him cos it was not me and to be honest i dont really care. HOWEVER if in him making another billion he creates jobs, afordable housing helps the econemy in Scotland - Fantastic.

Ireland has now become a bigger tourist attraction for golfers than Scotland, reason - investment. Not only will this createthe tourism in the north east/Scotland do any of you boozos know how much a major tourny brings to the econemy.

To call this anything other than a good thing for Scotland means only one of three things
(1) Your an idiot unionist using anything and everything to slag SNP
(2) Your a tree hugging numpty whos probably never even been to these dunes
or (3) Your just simply as thick as mince.
83

,

04/11/2008 12:43:29
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84

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 12:44:57
As someone who knows the area and lives not ten miles from the place, i can confidently speak on behalf of the 80% of the local population and indeed the whole county who welcome the Trump development and the economic boos it will bring to the area and the other tourist attractions that this part of Scotland has.

The sand dunes at Menie are the tail end of what is 26 miles of far better and far more exquisite sand dunes at Balmedie and northwards especially around the Ythan estuary. These are the true gems and will remain unspooilt.

Most of the posters on here have their Green, Socialist and Anti-American axes to grind. Thankfully, they are a tiny minority, though vociferous. Thankfully the silent majority have prevailed and commonsense from Mr Swinney has ensured the correct result. We welcome Mr Trump and look forward to the hotel, golfcourses and housing development.
85

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04/11/2008 12:45:36
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57vintage,

Keith 04/11/2008 12:46:09
#93

Tut tut.

Your earlier cogent and lucid argument is somewhat undermined by your spiteful and partisan coda.

As an objector to this 'development', I am

1. No affiliate of any organised major political party. A plague on all their affordable Trump hooses.

2. I have been to the dunes and the whole of that coast from Fittie to the Bullers of Buchan - often. I am a diligent environmentalist but have yet to hug a tree other than in my much younger drinking days when a stout horse chestnut was available for much-needed support. I have never knitted yoghurt either, but DO take privatised public transport whenever I can, I cycle and walk as often as allowable and do the communal recycling thing via the local cooncil's pretty good collection service. I owe it ot the only planet we've got.

3. That would be in the eye, ear and sensibility of the beholder, but I'd pit my knowledge of business, Scotland and capitalist and environmental issues against yours any day.

Temper your posts with politeness rather than personal invective and I might consider your point.

87

,

04/11/2008 12:48:13
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,

04/11/2008 12:52:41
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Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 04/11/2008 12:52:59
100 more jobs about to go at Stewart Milne Homes...350 at Inverurie Paper Mill, 50 at an Aberdeen envelope company.

Come on then, all you nay-sayers, what are YOUR plans for the future of the local economy???

Still think Trump is a bad idea???

At the moment, everything gravitates towards the oil industry. Even more so if more non-oil jobs are lost.

GET IT BUILT - IT'S GREAT NEWS.
90

bruce borland,

oshawa 04/11/2008 12:53:54
The Americanization of Scotland?...and I was thinking that at least the Scots had the balls to send this creeper packing but I guess I was wrong...the major advantage I see in this is I save a plane ticket and wander over to Buffalo or Detroit because it will be no different after this man takes control..what do I mean "take control" he already has done what the English could not...let see the future...Ben Trump, Glen Trump, Trump Castle, Loch Trump...why stop there maybe turn Edinburgh Castle to Trump Towers...maybe a few bagel shacks in the old town, a McDonald's on the road to the castle, the list goes on...congratulations boys, you are now American wannabees and will be inundated with the real thing...all, my friends, in the name of GREED.
91

Viva Victoria ,

04/11/2008 12:55:35
The SNP's idea of job creation is making Scots clean toilets for the minimum wage.

The SNP and Labour hide behing quantative analysis constantly, but the qualitative analysis is far more revealing.

You can mow the 18th green for minimum wage.

You can wash cutlery and scrub pans for minimum wage.

You can clean windows for minimum wage.

You can drive rich men to the airport for minimum wage.

This is £1 Billion worth of rubbish, acres and acres of tedious, boring, demoralising low paid jobs.

I would rather have a few million worth of quality than subsidise this to have 10 times the amount of rubbish. But quantity beats quality always in SNP/Labour land.

"Can I carry your bags, sir?" "Yeth mathter, me good Scot, me clean boots real good, sir, me hard working Scot, me like crumbs of rich man's plate." "Me no work at engineering, sir, me love cleaning toilets."
92

,

04/11/2008 12:55:39
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57vintage,

Keith 04/11/2008 12:58:01
#96

It's traditional for the citizens of our respective burghs to disagree. ;o)

All I will say, is let's see the detail and let's hold him to account.

Various large construction projects have had clauses inserted to ensure that on their failure or at the end of their natural life, the onus is on the developer/owner to return the site to its former state. Let's hope that's one of Swinney's provisos for the Menie project.

I note that the much-derided St James Centre in Edinburgh is about to be demolished. St Nicholas House in Aberdeen is also to go the same way. How many more of these utilitarian pre-cast monoliths will go as public taste and the need for efficient buildings wins out?

I wonder how many of Trump's affordable houses will eventually go the same way once their eyesore value is realised?
94

overton,

balmedie 04/11/2008 12:58:49
98 57vintage,Keith

Unfortunately some the minority of your co-objectors have been grossly impolite since day one and thus instigated quite strong reactions from the normally silent majority.
95

Arfur,

04/11/2008 13:10:16
98 57vintage - I do apologise - I do tend to get too wound up as I type.
96

E300,

04/11/2008 13:14:09
'The inquiry report made clear the loss of dynamism cannot be mitigated, so we can cross Foveran Links SSSI off the list of "protectd" sites in Scotland.'

Scotland has 1451 designated Sites of Special Scientific Interest. The Foveran Links was rated as 1427 in scientific importance. In a recent survey in Edinburgh 74% of respondents did not know what an SSSI was, 16% could name only one or more SSSI's and 13% named the Menie Estate or Menie Dunes. Seems if it had not been for Trump only 3% of the populace could name an SSSI out of 1451 sites.
97

,

04/11/2008 13:15:55
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98

Sky Blue,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 13:27:33
#98 - well, well, well - 100 more jobs to go at Stewart Milne, don't tell me the housing market is facing a slump up here. Just what Trump needs when he is planning to build 1450 homes on Meeny Doons. And here was me thinking wee Stewarty was going to do the building for him. The least he can do is to explain to Trump what to do with his hair .....
99

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 04/11/2008 13:31:02
Charles Linskaill is hallucinating again!

Don't waste perfectly good Scotch Whisky by pouring it in the sea as he proposes. Why deprive yourselves of a relaxing few drams or more over an American bast*rd?

Ivana really did a trip on him when she slyly suggested he get hair plugs. Just look at the results!

He is a liar and a cheat and will ride roughshod over all competion.

By the way, "The Donald" is small change compared to the richest man in the world.

He is an Indian businessman who deals in steel and is worth something like $50 billion or is it $500 billion.

The Donald must be fuming at the bit to think that he will NEVER achieve that level of personal wealth.

Apparently this Indian billionaire's wedding for his daughter cost something around $5 million or thereabouts.

It hardly seems enough.
100

clola,

at the house 04/11/2008 13:32:52
as one who lives and works locally i have never heard a word of complaint from anybody. The vocal anti-trump lobby is small and vociferous, the vast bulk of the folks are all for it. Political point scoring is normal, Salmond has always been in favour. Maybe we will get some decent roads from the airport now that 'tourists' will flock in sufficient numbers. Aberdeen is a fine city with plenty of oil and gas but that has a finite future, golf will become one of the 'sustainable future developments' long after the oil and gas have gone. the houses will be enjoyed by those who buy them, and it will take a little bit of the pressure off the rest of the city housing. They are not looking for a penny from anybody, they will build it all themselves and trust the future market to set the values.
The dunes will be stable, the grasses will still grow and the birds who may be put off by the proximity of H. Sapiens will settle slightly further north in the rest of sand dunes. No or very little loss.
easy decision.
101

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 04/11/2008 13:47:32
Farcical beyond belief. Salmond's U turn has come way too late. The Donald is all but penniless. 3 Days ago he failed to secure a bail out loan of $150 million for his 'Trump Ocean Resort, in Baja, which has now sunk into receivership. How the heck is he going to finance this one?
102

Logie Almond,

04/11/2008 13:55:32
They were bouught and sold for Yankee gold
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
Or in an SNP administration.
103

The_Reiver,

04/11/2008 13:56:25
Donald Trumps and we have to bear the stink
104

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04/11/2008 14:16:36
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105

A Crofter,

Western Isles 04/11/2008 14:20:26
A sad, but utterly predictable, outcome. What a shame that so many cannot see further than their wallets.

And there's the proof that the SNP goons couldn't care less about their country - plenty of green talk, swiftly followed by shamelessly brown actions.

Swinney had the gall to appear last night on Newsnight claiming that the ScotNuts were squeaky-clean environmentalists, having vetoed the Lewis windfarm. Perhaps Alzheimers has set in early on the humourless ex-banker, for - as any fule kno - the planned development was scuppered by the EU.

When will the Green party end their coalition with these Philistines?

106

sheena,

at home 04/11/2008 14:23:17
Trumps golf course will be somewhat unusual given that there will be no 'greens' on it.
107

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04/11/2008 14:27:35
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108

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

04/11/2008 14:28:10
#114 It's not just his Trump Ocean Resort that has finance problems. His Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago is in trouble too - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122523704293478077.html?mod=googlenews_wsj - read posts #41 to #45.

As for the estate agent - I don't know what planet he's on but real estate sales at all levels is suffering in the present economic climate.
109

subrosa,

04/11/2008 14:29:22
# 100

I find your post insulting to people who wish to do cleaning to pay their bills. What's wrong with washing dishes or cleaning toilets to keep yourself off benefits?

As I am connected with the tourist industry, I clean toilets and wash dishes and in no way do I feel inferior to any engineer, American tycoon or, that awful title for a nobody, a celebrity.

What a shallow experience of life you must have.
110

ScotLJM,

Richmond 04/11/2008 14:57:01
#36-Dick Lynas. You said exactly what my thoughts and feelings are on this Trump Resort in Balmedie. As an ex-Aberdonian now in America, and an architect by profession, I have been in favour of the development from the start, I know the area, and how this resort can benefit the economy, and will open up N.E. Scotland to world attention and recognition. As you aptly put it, when the Open is played, the world will see it, and the benefit of tourists alone, and the income generated, will alone make this projec a worthwhile venture. Couple this with other future developments, I am envious of their future opportunities.
111

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 04/11/2008 15:06:55
#108 Skyblue:

Come on then - what do YOU propose should sustain the economy of NE Scotland, instead of your negativity & cynicism that is all too evident.
112

McGinty,

Glasgow & Aberdeen 04/11/2008 15:16:05
This nonsense about that it should have been given the go-ahead straight away is unbelievable. If it had been given the green light early, there would have been violence, arson, non payment of council tax and possibly threats of assault or murder on those responsible for bringing it forward. It would have made anti-capitalists, bypass protesters, Greenham Common or Faslane look like kindergartens. As it is, there are bound to be unhappy people out for revenge. This man for all his fans and sycophants is a Citizen Kane, deeply unpopular Gordon Gekko relic of 80's boomtimes whose spectacular demise will leave many gloating at the pathos of it all. The Evening Express has mishandled this to the point of making the Sun look like a quality journal.
113

okanaganguy,

kelowna,b.c. canada 04/11/2008 15:20:33
#119 and #120. Excellent posts. many of the posters in here are still caught up in the "class system" which still seems to have a grip on many in Scotland. These are some of the same people who can't say anything positive about successful Scots who have made a name for themselves in the world. Whine, whine, whine.Pride in ones country is a good thing but it has to be balanced.Pride does nothing to put food on the table or provide jobs It is good to know that the majority of the Scottish people support this project.Who cares if Trump makes money on this project. Would anyone here invest money with no expectation of turning a profit.The whole area will benefit through employment,services and taxes.Yes folks, the glass is half full, regards
114

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04/11/2008 16:33:14
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115

The Tam ,

Puertto Bella 04/11/2008 17:00:10
Viva Vic......

"The SNP's idea of job creation is making Scots clean toilets for the minimum wage."

Trump pays very well actually:

Casino Clerk - $18,000
Blackjack Dealer - $18,000 (plus tips)
Executive Casino Host - $45,000
Waitress - $45,000 (including tips)
Slot Attendant - $20,000
Valet Lot Attendant - $16,000
Slot technician - $32,000
Business Analyst - $75,000
Director of Operations - $87,500
Casino Maintenance - $52,500
Casino Bartender - $16,000 (plus significant tips)
Casino Chef - $42,500

His organisation will also offer an excellent appremticeship program at $10.00 per hour. Apprentices will receive free meals, (tartan)uniforms and free dry cleaning.

Housing is available at a minimum cost for those living over two hours away.

Apply to Mr Forbes, Menie Estate Manager (£50,000 (no tips)


116

Tarchin,

Lothian 04/11/2008 17:56:26
#125
Don't agree, If these are annual salaries some are OK but by my reckoning $18,000 dollars per annum is less than the minimum wage in UK. One would need to be on or about $45,000 pa to equate to the average UK salary of £28,000 per annum.
$1,00 = £0.625
117

brownlie,

04/11/2008 19:41:20
100 victoria

Earlier today I asked one of the green-keepers on our modest little golf-course if he was prepared to work for the minimum wage - he emphatically and graphically said "No chance".

I had to laugh at the previous poster who referred to a golf-course as a brown-field site.
118

jerrymanders,

04/11/2008 19:42:18
Invest in new housing when every other housebuilder is laying staff off and/or going bust?
Build golf courses that aren't needed?
Holiday homes during a world wide credit crunch?

This show is unlikely to make it onto the stage, at least for several years. Trump has enough financial problems back in the USA without starting more over here.
119

Media 1,

cape town 04/11/2008 19:46:01
This is great news - Every Scot owes Mr Trump!
And how proud it makes one feel to note that he chose Scotland - An absolutely wonderful decision was made by all who permitted the resort to go ahead.

If we worried about the environment all the time we would have no buildings and would still be living in caves. Build build build, no matter what! The world is changing and we need to change with it.
120

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 20:03:26
Huntly Loon, Overton and Richard.

Congratulations on a great result.

For the hours and hours of debating, campaigning, arguing and canvassing, in the virtual world as well, I'm sure, in the real world. For your frustration, but continual correction of posters who clearly don't have a scooby about Menie or the NE, or about what the development actually means to an area that continues to redistribute wealth to the rest of Scotland with very little returned for future generations.

I take my hat off to the three of you. Savour the moment, but let's keep up the pressure for this, the Stonehaven and Blairs courses, the AWPR, the airport runway extension, the crossrail project, the Energetica development, and the A90 dualling to Ellon to be started as soon as possible.
121

Dunnie,

Canada 04/11/2008 20:07:23

109 - wee Timmy. For once we are in agreement.

I have nothing against golf courses per se - but this proposal can hardly be seen to be an economic boost unless one considers forelock-tugging jobs as lasting and meaningful contributions to the economy.

I ask you: who could trust a man so vain to have such a colossal comb-over? It is either a sign of runaway vanity (insecurity)or bad taste - or both. Beware - this man is not to be trusted. Check his commercial pedigree and you'll find he has jumped the fence more than once and left others truly screwed.
122

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 20:12:00
This is a good time for Trump to start the development. Just think how much more £££ he can buy for his $$$. Cheaper construction materials and cheaper construction labour.
123

George Street,

Balmedie, Aberdeen 04/11/2008 20:57:35
I doubt most of you have ever seen the bit of the planet in question. My grandfather farmed the area of Pettens and Mennie. This area is a complete wilderness only 8 miles north of Aberdeen. Take a walk along the coast north from aberdeen and you pass several links courses on the way to Balmedie, then through the country park, the next 3-4 miles is a COMPLETE WILDERNESS. Beautifull and untouched. Plenty space for a few golf courses and club houses. HOWEVER wait a minuite, Timeshares.....worth a grand a week when (if) the Open ever is allowed there. Otherwise worth £5 on a wet dark September - April day. Had a local Jock come up with the idea he'd have been bombed out. In the current climate perhaps the banks will insist that Jock Trump has to sel out to a local namesake. Oh Gradndad if only you had know.....
124

Dunnie,

Canada 04/11/2008 21:48:24

135-139 - Oh dear. someone drank his "tea" - if you pardon the pun!
125

McHoot,

brisbane 04/11/2008 22:55:05
Yes but I can't wait to see Scotland's (the World's?) first tizz and glitz golfcourse. Sparkly greens, Louis the 95th motorised golf carts? Faux marble pillars leading out of the sand pits? Patterned and multi-hued greens? Pretend diamond holes and Versace flags? Mind boggles, don't it?
126

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 04/11/2008 23:10:34
141 McBrisbane

Someone else who has not studied the outline planning. This will be a traditional links course built into the fabulous landscape. None of your plastic frills and no buggies at all. Any "tizz and glitz" courses in Queensland?

Is there no end to these uninformed comments?
127

Buttress,

05/11/2008 00:01:14
Did he really say 'We will stabilise the dunes'?

The man is clearly deranged.
128

livilion,

livingston 05/11/2008 00:47:34
#100 Viva Victoria

So you've never been to a resort hotel then, if you think the only jobs on offer are for 'toilet cleaners' with speach impediments?

I'm sure Scotland's highly trained and professional cadre of housekeepers, greenkeepers and hotel workers might have a view on your low opinion of their worth.

FYI Hospitality is now the UK's No1 employer, e.g. there are now more waiters employed in Asian restaurants than work in heavy engineering- mining, shipbuilding, steelmaking, car manufacture and ship building combined.

You may be aware of the fashion these days for celebrity chefs, who charge a fortune to dine at their restaurants. Where do you imagine these guys are working, the BBC?

As it happens, Scotlands Federation of Chefs is one of the most highly regarded bodies of chefs in the world.

Take a trip to Gleneagles, Turnberry or St Andrews and then come and tell me Scotland and her workers would be better served without those resorts.
129

livilion,

livingston 05/11/2008 01:12:48
#100 Viva Victoria

there are now more waiters employed in Asian restaurants than work in heavy engineering- mining, shipbuilding, steelmaking, car manufacture and railways combined.
130

seillean a mhirdenibha,

Williamsburg 05/11/2008 03:06:08
Donald Trump may be the greatest thing since sliced light bread for Scotland. On the other hand, you should know something about absentee landlords after 260 years of experience. Where will the profits actually go? Is there some reason that you can't develop such things with homegrown entrepreneurs? Then, the profits would stay home in Scotland.
131

overton,

balmedie 05/11/2008 06:44:53
131 Andrew BOD,Aberdeenshire

Thanks Andrew - commonsense prevailed.

The hold up created by this experiment has been extremely costly to the area as is the ongoing exercise in timewasting that is being carried out at the AWPR enquiry.

Let's hope that the bills for these ego-trips land on the plates of the Lib Dems at the next election.

The Evening Express editorial summed it up last night by asking why Debra Storr, Paul Johnson, Martin Ford and Alistair Ross, as elected councillors, were actively campaigning against this opportunity and against the obvious wishes of the electorate and business interests in the Aberdeenshire?
132

livilion,

livingston 05/11/2008 09:38:02
112 Logie Almond

Yankee gold is it?
And just where do you imagine the UK economy would be right now if the US had not been bailing it out, from the end of WWI right up until Harold Wilson refused to be drawn into the Vietnam War?

Let me give you a clue: within a couple of years Jim Callaghan had to eat humble pie before the IMF(just like Iceland)for a couple of £bn to prevent UKplc going bust, we suffered the resultant Winter of Discontent with rubbish piled high in the streets and the dead left unburied.

It seems Yankee gold is fine, unless there is an SNP led administration in Holyrood?
133

Myosotis,

05/11/2008 17:24:24
There is quite unrealistic optimism here from Trump supporters.

They might not have noticed that the inspectors, backed by John Swinney, have put in enough conditions that it will be at least a year before planning approval is given.

And that TIGLS are expected to work with SNH to safeguard the special environment at Menie, a sure recipe for delay.

Also the inspectors commented that the hole positioning will have to be adjusted to meet environmental concerns.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump`s finances will become even more stretched.

And he is making even more enemies. For example by keeping his $1.5 million fee for his failed lecture tour of Australia that received few bookings and made bankrupt the Australian organisers.
134

Myosotis,

05/11/2008 17:32:47
E300 @ 105:

It`s obvious you know nothing about the system of SSSIs.

They are not ranked from 1 to 1451.

However, the SSSI system has been placed under severe strain by John Swinney`s apparent failure to protect it from the depradations of rich business men. And it is quite obvious that Scotland`s reputation as a destination for wildlife tourism will plummet, losing millions of pounds for the economy.

However, once the Glenrothes by-election is over, I think we may hear John Swinney making rather more of the conditions he has imposed, but which the Aberdeen press are blacking out.
135

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 05/11/2008 19:03:22
#129 cheers Andrew, a victory for those of us who saw the bigger picture, a victory for common sense.

The Reporters found IN FAVOUR of the development after a fair, transparent public enquiry.

Politicians of ALL the major parties ( I do not include the Greens in that) were in favour of the development.

By & large the newspaper colums have also come down in favour.

Only people against are the minorities, who ain't worth a hill o' beanz.

So could Ford, Storr & all the huggy-fluffs now B*GGER off & let's get on with the development, with developing the tourist industry.

WELCOME TO SCOTLAND DONALD TRUMP...AT LAST :-)
136

Myosotis,

05/11/2008 20:58:44
Richard:

What you are asking is that principled people with passionate beliefs should suddenly abandon them in favour of a rogue who only wants to make a good profit.

I can assure you that in the unlikely event that the course is built according to the Hawtree plan, there will be many folk determined to ensure the enterprise is a great disaster.

Even if only 20% of intending golfers have sensitivities to environmental concerns, and stay away, the loss of this number of customers would severely dent Donald`s profits.

Of course, if DT were to compromise we could have the benefits of the extra jobs and prestige and retain the wonderful Menie environment.

Everybody would gain.

Whereas with the battle ongoing, the Scottish reputation for caring for wildlife is in tatters, and the tourist trade will lose millions.
137

McHoot,

05/11/2008 21:44:29
* 140,
Is there no end to humourless boors?
Actually there is plenty of glitz and tack on our Gold Coast. Cheap immitations of Trump-ghastly taste and I'd hate to see that in Bonnie Scotland.
Lighten up, mate.
*141
What the hell are you on about with that gobblygook?
Dunnie, where are you?
138

Buttress,

06/11/2008 09:43:49
By the time he's actually looked at the small print, I wonder if Trump will build his ghastly Disneytoon?

Wilson's Weekly Wrap this week:
http://www.architecturescotland.co.uk/

Sometimes you just have to love a credit crunch
Things seem to be moving quietly forward there in furry boot city as regards the Trumpton development, but could it all be an illusion worthy of Brigadoon itself? Yes, the Scottish Government has unveiled measures to update the planning system and allow such things to speed through and John Swinney has wasted no time in approving the Donald’s plans. But as autumn turns to winter I can feel the cold wind of uncertainty entering my bones on this one. Even as permission is granted, has the moment passed for the world’s most leveraged comb-over?

It didn’t take much scrutiny to see that the ‘world class’ golf development was entirely predicated on the construction of a small town’s worth of executive homes, with executive prices to match. Now that the housing market is on its knees, however, and likely – even if the banks start dishing out mortgages again – to remain so for the next few years, it’s open to question who will purchase the new homes. Remember, this is mooted as an exclusive £1bn development for which the Granite City’s hoi polloi will provide the navvies and skivvies, not the galacticos with the net worth to buy a dream home from Don. That plus the fact that banks (such as remain in existence) - including, presumably, Trump’s – are hardly falling over themselves to underwrite speculative commercial developments suggests that our man in New York may now have some trouble finding the funding for this particular venture.

Two other issues add to my scepticism: the ongoing inquiry into BAA’s virtual monopoly on the UK’s major airports, including Aberdeen, and British Airways’ almost total reversion to life as a London-centric operation, with virtually no UK-internal services from it likely in the future. It may be that, lack
139

Buttress,

06/11/2008 09:44:43

cont It may be that, lacking connecting flights to Furry Boot International, the high net worth individuals targeted by the Trump organisation may be less inclined to make the considerable effort necessary to get to the five-star, 450 bedroom hotel, 960 timeshare apartments and 500 houses planned for the three mile stretch of coastline at Balmedie.

Of course, the Donald could knock on political doors for assistance but, given it’s own financial predicament, Aberdeen Council is not best-positioned to do more dodgy land deals on this project or to pump in any actual cash. The Scottish Government, whilst frantically doffing its cap to the great one, will find the politics a bit tricky – money into Trumpton can only come from other hard-pressed budgets, a difficult sell in the current environment. Could it be that Trumpton only really made sense in the financial Never-Never Land now seen to be as illusory as a certain hairline?






140

Buttress,

06/11/2008 09:48:10
148 - I wonder if Trump has actually looked yet at the conditions?

There is a limit on the housing now, and the golf course has to be built first - and as you say, there are other restrictions also.

Will it ever happen?






141

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 06/11/2008 19:08:33
I'll treat that report on "Furry Boot Intl" with the contempt it deserves. I'll line the recycle bin with it.
142

Myosotis,

07/11/2008 16:08:15
Now the Trump and SNP supporters here will be hoping the loss to Scotland`s economy and prestige caused by the apparent lack of support for the SSSI system will be minimal.

But wildlife tourism brings in £210 million to Scotland each year according to the same government website that tells of John Swinney`s decision.

Obviously there will be some extra golf tourism, and only a part of the wildlife tourism will go elsewhere, but on balance Scotland will lose out.

So the Aberdeenshire councillors have a great responsibility to salvage something from the mess, and push TIGLS hard to make Donald Trump compromise in the ways that the Inquiry inspectors recommend.
143

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 07/11/2008 22:03:29
152 Buttress

You really don't keep up with this, do you?

Trump stated months ago that he would build the course first and the houses last.
144

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 07/11/2008 22:19:28
Myosotis

Your prediction about wildlife tourism has no basis whatsoever.

In fact, Trump's celebrity will probably bring much more (non-golf) tourism to Menie and the surrounding area. He has put it on the map, worldwide.

And there are other factors relating to wildlife tourism that will continue to marketed across the country and the world. The re-introduction of beavers, the possible re-introduction of lynx, and the debate surrounding wolves. The extension of Cairngorm National Park, the successful introduction of sea-eagles, now on the East Coast as well, etc..

These, and other projects point to a move away from hill farming and a re-introduction of native flora and fauna. And they will have a much more positive impact on wildlife tourism than the sympathetic development of a tract of land that the RSPB openly admitted has little birdlife. 'Shifting Sands' has never really gripped the imagination quite so much as the things I've mentioned above.
145

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/11/2008 16:41:53
I went to the sands recently. I saw a seagull, & built a sandcastle.

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